| Time |
Nick |
Message |
| 00:10 |
Fixer |
rubenwardy: smth like in terraria? |
| 00:10 |
rubenwardy |
yes |
| 00:10 |
rubenwardy |
if you read the post it says that |
| 00:11 |
Fixer |
opening firefox even on SSD is tough |
| 00:12 |
Fixer |
rubenwardy: nice |
| 00:12 |
Fixer |
rubenwardy: wonder what if some kind of research is added to this mix |
| 00:12 |
Fixer |
maybe not to this mod actually |
| 00:13 |
Fixer |
rubenwardy: i would like to see some tabs as in creative inv, all, blocks, items, tools, etc |
| 00:13 |
rubenwardy |
yeah, I won't use tabs though |
| 00:14 |
Fixer |
just smth useful |
| 00:14 |
rubenwardy |
toggle icon button maybe (is that a thing?) |
| 00:14 |
Fixer |
no idea |
| 00:14 |
Fixer |
don't forget, we were stuck with those formspecs - we lost our sense of beauty |
| 00:15 |
rubenwardy |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/6527 |
| 00:15 |
Fixer |
nerzhul added this to Feature requests in Minetest 0.5 10 days ago |
| 00:15 |
Fixer |
lol |
| 00:16 |
Fixer |
rubenwardy: looks like that discussion have died down |
| 00:16 |
Fixer |
anyway, have fun and a good night |
| 00:16 |
rubenwardy |
bike shedding, essentially |
| 00:16 |
rubenwardy |
the best thing is for someone to do it and do it well |
| 00:16 |
Fixer |
yes |
| 00:18 |
Fixer |
rubenwardy: i'm interesting to see how's this mod you developed will be in actual gameplay on some servers |
| 00:18 |
rubenwardy |
I'll probably add it to CTF, to test it. Idk |
| 00:19 |
Fixer |
actually minecraft now has pretty much the same thing |
| 00:19 |
Fixer |
since 1.12 |
| 00:20 |
Fixer |
you got crafting grid + book button that slowly gets populated like in your mod |
| 00:20 |
Fixer |
one thing i dislike in MTG is crafting grid as permanent storage, that's weird |
| 00:20 |
Fixer |
gn |
| 00:39 |
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| 00:41 |
|
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| 00:45 |
Mr_Pardison |
how does the last-login function work in terms of seeing if a player actually exists or not? |
| 00:46 |
rubenwardy |
not sure what the question is |
| 00:46 |
Mr_Pardison |
the command last-login tells you the last login time of a player. |
| 00:46 |
Mr_Pardison |
how does it see if a player has an account on the server? |
| 00:47 |
rubenwardy |
it uses the authentication handler |
| 00:47 |
rubenwardy |
so auth.txt |
| 00:47 |
rubenwardy |
or sauth.sqlite |
| 00:48 |
Mr_Pardison |
so, for the bounty hunting I'm working on, it would need to access that to see if a player exists or not. |
| 00:48 |
rubenwardy |
minetest.player_exists(name) -> true or false |
| 00:49 |
rubenwardy |
0.4.16 afaik |
| 00:49 |
Mr_Pardison |
got it. |
| 00:50 |
Mr_Pardison |
thanks. |
| 00:50 |
rubenwardy |
yeah, added Jan 18 |
| 00:50 |
rubenwardy |
+2017 |
| 01:00 |
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| 01:02 |
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| 01:07 |
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| 01:22 |
Mr_Pardison |
when creating a new repository for a mod, would you add a .gitignore and if so, in what language? |
| 01:27 |
Mr_Pardison |
bah. |
| 01:27 |
Mr_Pardison |
I'll add it in later. |
| 01:27 |
Mr_Pardison |
Shara, TommyTreasure: initial progress of my mod (just created the repo, will add in the files tomorrow when I have wifi). |
| 01:27 |
Mr_Pardison |
https://github.com/cordial-cobra/Bounty_Hunting |
| 01:28 |
Mr_Pardison |
g2g now cya tomorow |
| 01:28 |
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| 01:33 |
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| 02:45 |
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| 04:31 |
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| 04:56 |
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| 05:49 |
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| 07:11 |
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| 07:15 |
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| 08:00 |
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| 09:21 |
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| 10:10 |
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| 10:11 |
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| 10:14 |
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| 10:15 |
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| 10:16 |
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| 10:17 |
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| 10:17 |
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| 10:28 |
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| 10:32 |
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| 11:28 |
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| 11:59 |
|
tenplus1 joined #minetest-hub |
| 11:59 |
tenplus1 |
hi folks |
| 11:59 |
rud0lf |
hi folk |
| 11:59 |
tenplus1 |
hi rud0lf :P |
| 11:59 |
rud0lf |
:P |
| 12:01 |
Krock |
hi etn |
| 12:01 |
Krock |
hi tenplus1 |
| 12:02 |
tenplus1 |
ehe, hi Krock :) |
| 12:02 |
rud0lf |
why not eleven? |
| 12:03 |
tenplus1 |
that's my secret identify |
| 12:03 |
Krock |
too easy |
| 12:04 |
tenplus1 |
a little birdy told me that mt 0.4.17 is out on the 14th :PP |
| 12:05 |
rud0lf |
i bet tenplus1's nickserv password is "11" |
| 12:05 |
tenplus1 |
nope, it's 42 |
| 12:05 |
rud0lf |
in unary? |
| 12:09 |
tenplus1 |
hexadecimal |
| 12:10 |
xerox123 |
hellooo |
| 12:11 |
tenplus1 |
hi xerox |
| 12:15 |
rud0lf |
2A |
| 12:16 |
tenplus1 |
2B <-- most excellent pencil |
| 12:18 |
|
BakerPrime joined #minetest-hub |
| 12:20 |
tenplus1 |
hi BakerPrime... |
| 12:20 |
tenplus1 |
wb thomas |
| 12:20 |
ThomasMonroe |
thanks |
| 12:20 |
ThomasMonroe |
I've got a question for you tenplus1 :) |
| 12:20 |
ThomasMonroe |
was there a moderator named BiKa on Xanadu? |
| 12:21 |
tenplus1 |
she's a normal player |
| 12:21 |
ThomasMonroe |
hmm |
| 12:21 |
ThomasMonroe |
ok IceAge said something similar |
| 12:21 |
ThomasMonroe |
he said she was an old mod |
| 12:22 |
rud0lf |
you can't call a women old! |
| 12:22 |
tenplus1 |
lol |
| 12:22 |
rud0lf |
:) |
| 12:24 |
BakerPrime |
Hello TenPlus1 |
| 12:24 |
tenplus1 |
o/ |
| 12:24 |
BakerPrime |
Sorry, did I do something wrong? |
| 12:24 |
tenplus1 |
nah, o/ <-- waving |
| 12:25 |
|
Mr-Pardison joined #minetest-hub |
| 12:25 |
BakerPrime |
Ah. yeah, it was the "...." after "Hi" I was wondering about. :P |
| 12:25 |
tenplus1 |
hi mister |
| 12:25 |
rud0lf |
imagine "o" is a head and "/" is a hand raised in gesture of greeting |
| 12:25 |
rud0lf |
ah nvm :P |
| 12:25 |
tenplus1 |
ehehehehehe |
| 12:25 |
BakerPrime |
lol |
| 12:25 |
BakerPrime |
Hmm |
| 12:26 |
Mr-Pardison |
'ello 22/2 |
| 12:26 |
rud0lf |
sqrt(121) |
| 12:26 |
Mr-Pardison |
rud0lf: waving as a greeting. |
| 12:26 |
rud0lf |
and boom! 10.999999998 |
| 12:26 |
rud0lf |
:D |
| 12:26 |
BakerPrime |
I wonder, would anyone be interested in seeing the industrial mod updated? (Unless it already is, but it doesn't look like it....) |
| 12:26 |
rud0lf |
damn floats |
| 12:27 |
BakerPrime |
Anyway, I've been off/on IRC lately because the internet has been very bad lately. |
| 12:27 |
Mr-Pardison |
ints m8. ints. |
| 12:27 |
rud0lf |
you can't take sqrt of int |
| 12:28 |
tenplus1 |
lol |
| 12:28 |
* Mr-Pardison |
pulls open his dictionary |
| 12:28 |
Mr-Pardison |
syntax error. |
| 12:28 |
* rud0lf |
dumps Mr-Pardison's dictionary as json string |
| 12:29 |
|
lumberJ joined #minetest-hub |
| 12:29 |
Mr-Pardison |
\o |
| 12:29 |
tenplus1 |
hi lumberJ |
| 12:29 |
Krock |
<rud0lf> you can't take sqrt of int |
| 12:29 |
Krock |
that's where you're wrong |
| 12:30 |
rud0lf |
is there a sqaure root function that maps int -> int ? |
| 12:30 |
lumberJ |
hey tenplus1, Mr.Pardison, Krock and all |
| 12:30 |
Krock |
it's going to be very imprecise for small numbers |
| 12:30 |
rud0lf |
hi from the "all" crowd :P |
| 12:30 |
lumberJ |
hi rud0lf :) |
| 12:31 |
Krock |
just that C(++) doesn't have a function which takes bare ints, doesn't mean that it's not possible |
| 12:31 |
ThomasMonroe |
hey lumberJ , also fromt he all crowd |
| 12:31 |
lumberJ |
Hey Thomas |
| 12:31 |
lumberJ |
the all crowd is the in crowd |
| 12:32 |
ThomasMonroe |
lol |
| 12:33 |
|
longerstaff13-m joined #minetest-hub |
| 12:35 |
BakerPrime |
Hello LumberJ |
| 12:35 |
* BakerPrime |
looks into the industrial mod.... |
| 12:37 |
Mr-Pardison |
ThomasMonroe: I posted the link to my repo I created last night. It's just the starting files of the initial commit but I'm working on adding the other files. |
| 12:37 |
ThomasMonroe |
ok cool :) |
| 12:38 |
|
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| 12:38 |
|
longerstaff13 joined #minetest-hub |
| 12:38 |
tenplus1 |
hi longer |
| 12:39 |
longerstaff13-m |
Was just changing something in the ZNC |
| 12:39 |
longerstaff13-m |
Hi |
| 12:39 |
ThomasMonroe |
o/ longer :D |
| 12:39 |
longerstaff13-m |
o/ |
| 12:39 |
|
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| 12:39 |
tenplus1 |
hi fussel |
| 12:40 |
IhrFussel |
Just looping through online players + getting their name + checking against a table value shouldn't cause any lag right? (loop runs every second) |
| 12:40 |
IhrFussel |
Hi there |
| 12:41 |
Krock |
it causes lag of like 10μs |
| 12:41 |
rud0lf |
that's plenty |
| 12:42 |
rud0lf |
;) |
| 12:42 |
|
srifqi joined #minetest-hub |
| 12:42 |
tenplus1 |
hi srifqi |
| 12:42 |
IhrFussel |
tenplus1, it could just be a coincidence but since I added your ambience mod to my server the max_lag went up a little... from ~ 0.3 to ~ 0.4 ... I tried to set the check time from every 1 to every 2 seconds but that didn't change much |
| 12:43 |
Krock |
maybe it's just busier sending the media to clients? |
| 12:43 |
tenplus1 |
ambience checks surrounding nodes and will cause a very sliiiight lag |
| 12:43 |
srifqi |
hi tenplus1 |
| 12:43 |
Krock |
hi srifqi |
| 12:43 |
tenplus1 |
do you use playerplus ? |
| 12:43 |
IhrFussel |
And I assue that slight lag depends on the amount of connected players |
| 12:43 |
IhrFussel |
assume* |
| 12:44 |
tenplus1 |
yes... ambience lite has been optimized to work as fast as it can though |
| 12:45 |
IhrFussel |
Nope I don't use that |
| 12:45 |
IhrFussel |
Maybe I can decrease the check radius a little more |
| 12:45 |
srifqi |
hi Krock |
| 12:45 |
tenplus1 |
radius is set to 6 |
| 12:45 |
tenplus1 |
which is small, but certain sounds depend on counters to work |
| 12:46 |
srifqi |
rubenwardy: I feel like there is a bug in my PR. Did you found it? |
| 12:49 |
IhrFussel |
Does "i hope you die this week" count as harrassment? |
| 12:49 |
tenplus1 |
lol, who said that |
| 12:49 |
Mr-Pardison |
IhrFussel: I'd say so as it seems like an insult on a personal level said by someone who is very salty about something. |
| 12:50 |
IhrFussel |
A player wrote that in a book for a moderator |
| 12:51 |
|
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| 12:51 |
tenplus1 |
books are usually signed so at least you know who to ban |
| 12:51 |
IhrFussel |
Full book text reads "you are stupid and i hope you die this week and i hope your family will die" |
| 12:52 |
Mr-Pardison |
OK that's definitely someone who is salty about something that moderator did. |
| 12:53 |
IhrFussel |
But it's "harrassing" yeah? Cause I'm not sure if a "bad wish" counts as such |
| 12:53 |
Mr-Pardison |
if it's continual, then in my book it counts as harassment. |
| 12:54 |
|
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| 12:56 |
rubenwardy |
srifiqi: didn't notice anything wrong whilst testing |
| 12:56 |
rubenwardy |
admittedly it was testing by using |
| 12:57 |
rubenwardy |
rather than a proper test |
| 12:57 |
srifqi |
Hmm.... |
| 12:57 |
IhrFussel |
It's a player who's temp banned right now and I wasn't there when the moderator did the action... so I will wait until the ban is over and then ask him for details |
| 12:57 |
srifqi |
Maybe just bad installation. Will try again. |
| 12:58 |
srifqi |
BTW, you spelled my nick wrongly. (._. |
| 12:59 |
Mr-Pardison |
didn't press tab :P |
| 13:01 |
rubenwardy |
oh sorry |
| 13:01 |
rubenwardy |
was wondering why tab didn't work |
| 13:04 |
rud0lf |
do you think dns query using pure sockets is difficult? |
| 13:07 |
rud0lf |
i'd like to make mod for admins that displays similar info to my tcl script: IP: 54.37.138.165; static/dynamic: static; range: 54.36.0.0 - 54.38.255.255 (54.36.0.0/16); known as proxy: no; country: Netherlands (NL) |
| 13:08 |
rud0lf |
so they know how to ban possible dynamic range, and whether ip is listed as open proxy on dnsbl.sorbs.net |
| 13:08 |
rud0lf |
you think it's a good idea? |
| 13:08 |
Krock |
http request to a webserver that already does that.. don't re-invent the whell |
| 13:08 |
rud0lf |
rrright |
| 13:09 |
rud0lf |
most of webservers that provide it use anti-robot captcha |
| 13:09 |
Krock |
A: probably not so easy |
| 13:09 |
rud0lf |
C: i'm bored and i like to fiddle with protocols :) |
| 13:09 |
* Mr-Pardison |
reinvents the whell by replacing the wooden bucket and rope with a pump and tube system |
| 13:17 |
* Shara |
is waiting for that bounty hunting mod |
| 13:17 |
* rubenwardy |
is waiting for fishing |
| 13:18 |
* tenplus1 |
is waiting for spring |
| 13:18 |
Mr-Pardison |
I've run into a slight snag called real life. |
| 13:18 |
Mr-Pardison |
I'm sure some of y'all have run into the same thing. |
| 13:18 |
tenplus1 |
*nods* |
| 13:25 |
rubenwardy |
see #minetest |
| 13:25 |
rubenwardy |
<est31> https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/vsappcenter/guest-blog-playing-in-the-sandbox-how-we-created-minecrafts-multi-platform-design/ |
| 13:25 |
rubenwardy |
<est31> microsoft removes support from minecraft for GNU/Linux and older windows |
| 13:26 |
tenplus1 |
I doubt anyone used the support anyhoo :P |
| 13:29 |
Fixer |
ahah |
| 13:29 |
tenplus1 |
hi fixer |
| 13:30 |
Fixer |
ohi |
| 13:38 |
|
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| 14:08 |
|
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| 14:14 |
|
aerozoic joined #minetest-hub |
| 14:14 |
tenplus1 |
o/ aerozoic |
| 14:16 |
aerozoic |
wazup tenplus1 |
| 14:16 |
tenplus1 |
chillin' you ? |
| 14:23 |
Mr_Pardison |
what kind of license do y'all recommend that I use for my mod? |
| 14:23 |
tenplus1 |
MIT |
| 14:23 |
rubenwardy |
^ |
| 14:23 |
rubenwardy |
Either MIT or LGPLv2.1 |
| 14:23 |
Mr_Pardison |
I'd like it to be modified by others but that they also distribute the source code and attribute the original form to my work. |
| 14:24 |
rubenwardy |
then LGPLv2.1 |
| 14:24 |
Mr_Pardison |
gracias senor. |
| 14:27 |
Krock |
CC0 |
| 14:28 |
ThomasMonroe |
BSD-3 clause |
| 14:28 |
ThomasMonroe |
XD |
| 14:36 |
aerozoic |
tenplus1, ur chillin me? |
| 14:36 |
aerozoic |
XD |
| 14:37 |
tenplus1 |
oops, missed the comma :D |
| 14:49 |
IhrFussel |
I would never use such a mod on my server...sorry but it should be allowed for server owners to keep at least part of their code private |
| 14:50 |
tenplus1 |
?? |
| 14:50 |
tenplus1 |
what mod ? |
| 14:50 |
rud0lf |
gpl licensed i guess |
| 14:50 |
Mr_Pardison |
tenplus1: IhrFussel is commenting on what I said about when I asked what license to use for my bounty hunting mod. |
| 14:51 |
IhrFussel |
I mean if I modify a mod with LGPLv2.1 license then I don't want to be forced to make my changes public cause they are supposed to make my server unique |
| 14:51 |
Mr_Pardison |
ETA on finishing date is the end of this year but could be middle of next if I run into a thing called real life again. |
| 14:51 |
tenplus1 |
you arent... if it's on your own private server then those changes are ok, but if you upload/distribute your changed mod then you gotta show your work |
| 14:52 |
IhrFussel |
Isn't using the mod on a public server "distributing"? |
| 14:52 |
tenplus1 |
no, it's personal usage |
| 14:52 |
Mr_Pardison |
that's using. |
| 14:53 |
Mr_Pardison |
distributing is making changes and sharing it with others (i.e. posting a fork of it) |
| 14:53 |
IhrFussel |
So the license just forbids to change the code and then send the mod to others without making the source public? |
| 14:55 |
Mr_Pardison |
What I'm going after is them distributing it to others with changes that have been made without publishing it in source form. |
| 14:55 |
IhrFussel |
Ah...so is there a license that would forbid changes as personal usage without publishing source code? |
| 14:56 |
Mr_Pardison |
I'm not sure if there is but that the kind of license I'm looking for. |
| 14:56 |
rubenwardy |
IhrFussel: you don't |
| 14:56 |
rubenwardy |
only AGPL licenses |
| 14:56 |
rubenwardy |
oh, already said |
| 14:57 |
|
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| 14:57 |
IhrFussel |
So AGPL is the "bad" license I described? |
| 14:57 |
rubenwardy |
also, if no other mods use the API of an AGPL mod you don't need to distribute any other mods |
| 14:57 |
rubenwardy |
although IANAL |
| 14:58 |
Mr_Pardison |
\o twoelk |
| 14:58 |
twoelk |
o/ |
| 15:01 |
rubenwardy |
also, MTG is LGPL IhrFussel |
| 15:01 |
rubenwardy |
along with the engine |
| 15:02 |
Mr_Pardison |
using the same license since it is exactly what I'm looking for. |
| 15:02 |
rubenwardy |
AGPL means that you need to provide the source code to people who connect if you host it on a server |
| 15:05 |
|
paramat joined #minetest-hub |
| 15:05 |
tenplus1 |
hi paramat |
| 15:06 |
Mr_Pardison |
hello paramat |
| 15:08 |
IhrFussel |
rubenwardy, okay thanks... ##law isn't very helpful ... so I better avoid AGPL mods |
| 15:08 |
paramat |
IhrFussel : "Full book text reads "you are stupid and i hope you die this week and i hope your family will die". But it's "harrassing" yeah? Cause I'm not sure if a "bad wish" counts as such. It's a player who's temp banned" LOL just perma-ban instead of pondering, you're too soft |
| 15:09 |
paramat |
or afraid of infringing human rights? :] |
| 15:10 |
IhrFussel |
paramat, I wasn't there when it happened and the chat log doesn't mention it, so I think they might've talked about it in PM which I am NOT allowed to read without very good reasons |
| 15:10 |
paramat |
'harrasment'? obviously, but probably not legal harrasment yet |
| 15:10 |
rubenwardy |
that's a death threat |
| 15:11 |
paramat |
you're better off without players like this |
| 15:11 |
|
sniper338 joined #minetest-hub |
| 15:12 |
paramat |
who cares if it is PM? |
| 15:12 |
Krock |
uhm... /ignore as new chat command? |
| 15:12 |
IhrFussel |
I still wanna know why they wrote that down... it could be cause of mis-treatment, which I'd like to know about |
| 15:12 |
paramat |
seems you can't trust your mods to mod |
| 15:12 |
sfan5 |
IhrFussel: why would you avoid AGPL mods? |
| 15:13 |
IhrFussel |
I don't blindly believe what my moderators do and IMO that's a good thing ... players always have the right to complain about my moderators |
| 15:13 |
paramat |
so being nasty is fine in PM because you feel you shouldn't read it? |
| 15:13 |
* twoelk |
wonders wther he needs to read the logs |
| 15:13 |
IhrFussel |
sfan5, cause I often change some code in mods I add and want to keep the changes unique |
| 15:14 |
paramat |
WTF you want to defend the player =/ |
| 15:14 |
* Mr_Pardison |
defends the server |
| 15:14 |
rubenwardy |
sfan5: he's selfish, doesn't like sharing ;) |
| 15:14 |
tenplus1 |
o.O |
| 15:14 |
rubenwardy |
joking |
| 15:14 |
rubenwardy |
you definitely should contribute bug fixes though |
| 15:14 |
rubenwardy |
otherwise you should feel bad |
| 15:14 |
rubenwardy |
XD |
| 15:14 |
sfan5 |
hm yea |
| 15:15 |
IhrFussel |
I don't defend the player or my staff...I am neutral on any subject and I would expect that from any server staff |
| 15:15 |
paramat |
so if someone acts illegally in PM you'll ignore it because it's PM? |
| 15:15 |
Mr_Pardison |
but I give each case equal consideration and how well I do or do not know the player has no weight in my decision on what kind of action I take. |
| 15:15 |
sfan5 |
AGPL formalizes the "sharing" that is good practice for GPL-licensed software |
| 15:16 |
tenplus1 |
I found a pedo in PM using server logs, that I cannot ignore |
| 15:16 |
tenplus1 |
27yr old guy trying to chat up a 7yr old girl... no no NOOOOO |
| 15:16 |
* twoelk |
remembers that true neutrality is an illusion because in the end it only helps the reckless bully |
| 15:16 |
paramat |
you should trust your mods more than players, otherwise why have mods? |
| 15:16 |
IhrFussel |
If your country allows you to read PMs freely then it's fine..mine doesn't and I don't want to get in trouble |
| 15:17 |
rubenwardy |
no country allows that |
| 15:17 |
rubenwardy |
well, heh |
| 15:17 |
tenplus1 |
if it's YOUR server then YOU have the obligation to read all texts it produces in console to keep players safe from abuse |
| 15:17 |
rubenwardy |
put a disclaimer in the rules |
| 15:17 |
rubenwardy |
you have a moral obligation to make sure no harm comes to players |
| 15:18 |
rubenwardy |
so you need to read PMs if they are reported to you |
| 15:18 |
paramat |
i doubt your country stops you reading server PMs, you don't know the law obviously |
| 15:18 |
rubenwardy |
so have a privacy policy ass part of the rules |
| 15:18 |
rubenwardy |
and yeah, it probably doesn't stop you |
| 15:19 |
paramat |
the amount of ridiculousness you preach endlessly is quite amazing, and amusing |
| 15:19 |
twoelk |
LOL, you now know of the danger so >Gefahr im Verzug< get yourself a <richterliche Verfügung> :-P (danger - to be read with a grain of sarcastic salt) |
| 15:20 |
paramat |
same goes for your posts in that thread in the forum :] |
| 15:21 |
IhrFussel |
Via Google Translate: The operator of a service provides the users with the Personal Messages the possibility of non-public bilateral "personal" (!) Communication. He is thus a provider of a telecommunications service according to the TKG. He is bound by the TK secret (Telecommunication secrecy). He may not only disclose PN content to third parties. He must not take note of them either, so do not even open |
| 15:21 |
IhrFussel |
them. The desire to determine the extent of disruptions to the operation by users or moderators does not justify the opening of PN. This must be considered by the admin and the "team". Only the sender and the recipient of a PN may use the content and pass it on, without violating the TK secret; it does not apply to them. |
| 15:22 |
paramat |
and death threats probably override that |
| 15:22 |
paramat |
however, make it clear PMs will be read if necessary |
| 15:22 |
rubenwardy |
prvact polices get around that |
| 15:23 |
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| 15:24 |
paramat |
well anyway, you can just perma-ban anyway and pretend you didn't read the PM, you can go on the word of the mod who received the PM |
| 15:24 |
twoelk |
I could imagine that you could declare your ingame PM system to be only semi private |
| 15:24 |
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| 15:24 |
tenplus1 |
wb sniper |
| 15:25 |
sfan5 |
IhrFussel: which law are you quoting there? |
| 15:34 |
IhrFussel |
sfan5, in Germany data protection laws are more strict compared to other EU countries (that may change in May) and several lawyers decided that PMs are part of "personal communication" and there is a law that forbids the reading/listening of personal communication |
| 15:34 |
sfan5 |
you don't need to explain German laws to me |
| 15:34 |
sfan5 |
I just want to know where that information is sourced from |
| 15:35 |
IhrFussel |
Here is a German source with MP3 podcast file https://www.law-podcasting.de/darf-ein-foren-admin-die-privaten-nachrichten-der-user-lesen.html |
| 15:36 |
IhrFussel |
They talk about "forums admins" but it applies to servers as well |
| 15:37 |
sofar |
what's the requirement for reporting possible child abuse? |
| 15:37 |
IhrFussel |
The podcast mentions a "certain suspicion" to be able to read the selected PMs |
| 15:38 |
IhrFussel |
For example if a user reports the other user and tells the staff that they got sexually harrassed in PM |
| 15:38 |
twoelk |
sofar: gefahr im verzug |
| 15:39 |
twoelk |
and then the court would later decide if it was correct to report or so I presume |
| 15:40 |
IhrFussel |
There is *not* a law that 100% forbids the reading of PMs without such a reason... but in Germany the laws were simply not meant to be applied to the internet as they are, so judges discuss about whether it should be ok or not |
| 15:41 |
twoelk |
you know, two policemen at the door hearing something dangerous going on inside may knock down the door |
| 15:41 |
IhrFussel |
Some judges say PMs count as "letters" and the reading of letters of others without permission is definitely illegal |
| 15:42 |
twoelk |
there is the case of the girl being killed by a train and the parents are not allowed insight to her facebook account to see if there was a suicide note |
| 15:42 |
twoelk |
https://openjur.de/u/873426.html |
| 15:45 |
sofar |
easy solution |
| 15:45 |
sofar |
host in the US |
| 15:45 |
* sofar |
lolz |
| 15:45 |
Shara |
Looking for opinions on https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/pull/2095 if anyone wants to make their feelings known. |
| 15:45 |
IhrFussel |
Until recently public WiFi was even a "crime" cause the owner of the WiFi was responsible for EVERYTHING people did on their network |
| 15:47 |
IhrFussel |
Certain German laws are extremely backwards...menahwile the politicians talk about "digital age" |
| 15:52 |
Krock |
IhrFussel, heh. Merkel named the Internet "Neuland" (new lands), in 2013 |
| 15:52 |
IhrFussel |
Merkel yes but other parties want to push internet more |
| 15:53 |
Shara |
The command is /msg, not /pm. Just override and change the description.. then make it clear in rules it's a message that won't be displayed in general chat but can be reviewed by the admin. |
| 15:54 |
Shara |
Most privacy related issues come down to whether the user was fully aware of what might happen with the info they provide. |
| 15:55 |
Shara |
There's also nothing to say info in a PM is personal info... In my case I state personal info shouldn't be disclosed on the server, so anything in these messages shouldn't be personal info anyway |
| 15:56 |
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| 15:56 |
Shara |
If you simply refuse to ever look at this stuff, your server could be being used for any kind of nastiness at all and you would never know |
| 15:56 |
tenplus1 |
players could be selling Heroin in PM without you knowing, making you accessory |
| 15:57 |
Shara |
Makes you an extremely "unfair" server admin, because people could be getting abused via your server, and you don't even bother to check |
| 15:57 |
Shara |
Victims often don't dare speak up |
| 15:58 |
twoelk |
oh dear not only neutrality but know fairness is also an illusion |
| 15:58 |
Shara |
Oh, Fussel likes to bring that one up :) |
| 15:58 |
paramat |
but anyway, you can simply take the word of your moderator on this, no need to read the PM yourself |
| 15:59 |
twoelk |
anyways, IhrFussel, you could link the the law if it is in here: https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/index.html |
| 16:03 |
twoelk |
LOL the Article 10 of the Grundgesetz (Communication privacy) only applies to the communication in progress not to the logs of such - though other laws will probably protect that |
| 16:05 |
IhrFussel |
Shara, The IP is already personal info the German judges decided |
| 16:05 |
Shara |
Yes, I know IP addresses can classify as personal info |
| 16:05 |
Shara |
Logs from /msg aren't revealing the IP address though |
| 16:06 |
IhrFussel |
No but they can count as "1-to-1" communication which would be illegal to read |
| 16:06 |
Shara |
So see the first messages I sent above about setting reasonable expectations |
| 16:06 |
Shara |
Then you cover yourself |
| 16:07 |
twoelk |
IhrFussel: note the last entry by aaky https://forum.e-recht24.de/14176-chatlog-darf-man-private.html |
| 16:11 |
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| 16:15 |
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| 16:17 |
IhrFussel |
twoelk, https://www.bfdi.bund.de/bfdi_forum/showthread.php?t=3288 |
| 16:17 |
IhrFussel |
That's a moderator of an official forum of "Die Bundesbeauftragte für den Datenschutz und die Informationsfreiheit" |
| 16:19 |
sofar |
you could disable PM/msg chatting entirely |
| 16:19 |
sofar |
that solves the problem too |
| 16:20 |
Shara |
That was my next suggestion :) |
| 16:20 |
sofar |
honestly that's not such a bad idea for many servers |
| 16:20 |
Shara |
Ugh, reading german breaks my mind |
| 16:21 |
shivajiva |
you would also need to cover irc_msg and @player surely |
| 16:21 |
sofar |
maybe we should cobble up a minetest-mods/nopm mod |
| 16:22 |
sofar |
or something like that |
| 16:22 |
Shara |
Surely it should just be an option to disable in the game itself? |
| 16:22 |
shivajiva |
how about a setting :P |
| 16:22 |
Shara |
:D |
| 16:22 |
sofar |
that wouldn't be backwards compatible |
| 16:22 |
sofar |
how are you going to patch 0.4.16? |
| 16:23 |
Shara |
A mod would just be a simple override anyway |
| 16:23 |
Shara |
But a real setting would be better |
| 16:23 |
sofar |
easy to deploy on servers as a mod |
| 16:23 |
Shara |
Though the servers that should disable it probably wouldn't bother with either settings or to find a mod anyway |
| 16:24 |
shivajiva |
but irc mod would need adjusting to honour the setting or at least support pm as a setting |
| 16:24 |
sofar |
irc mod can be patched separately to honor the same setting |
| 16:24 |
rubenwardy |
easy as minetest.registered_chatcommands["msg"] = null |
| 16:24 |
Shara |
Just make a mod that checks for irc mod, then overrides the command to add a really high level priv |
| 16:24 |
Shara |
whichever way, it's easy |
| 16:24 |
rubenwardy |
or nil |
| 16:24 |
Shara |
Yup |
| 16:25 |
Shara |
Will that stop the player seeing the command? |
| 16:25 |
Shara |
I was thinking priv to remove it from command list |
| 16:25 |
rubenwardy |
yes |
| 16:25 |
sofar |
if priv, yes |
| 16:25 |
rubenwardy |
that de-registers it completely |
| 16:25 |
Shara |
okay, works fine then |
| 16:25 |
sofar |
normal users can't see `server` priv chatcommands |
| 16:25 |
rubenwardy |
chat commands are 100% lua |
| 16:26 |
Shara |
Just wasn't sure if nil would simply clear the content of the command, or the command itself |
| 16:26 |
twoelk |
>Nur der Absender und der Empfänger einer PN dürfen die Inhalte nutzen und weitergeben< ihrFussel, that happened so you can act |
| 16:26 |
Shara |
I'd do it by priv anyway, since it might be useful for admins or moderators to be able to send private warnings anyway |
| 16:27 |
sofar |
twoelk: don't bother, you need a lawyer to get a real answer anyway |
| 16:28 |
sofar |
my bet is that as soon as minors are involved, things get even more complicated |
| 16:29 |
twoelk |
problem is this is actually a very lively discussion as there indeed is no clear law for things as this at the moment |
| 16:29 |
Shara |
I'll just stay happy to not host in Germany |
| 16:30 |
sofar |
hosting in AMS seems like a great soft spot for europe |
| 16:30 |
sofar |
pricing is really competitive |
| 16:30 |
shivajiva |
might be time to move mine out of Germany |
| 16:31 |
twoelk |
yeah, sender and recipient have to give permission for others to read content but what happens if they are underage so they are not yet legally ful capable |
| 16:31 |
sfan5 |
other EU countries might not help you for long, depending on how strict the new privacy laws in the EU are |
| 16:31 |
Shara |
Conditions on use made clear when someone joins is generally a good approach anyway |
| 16:32 |
sfan5 |
twoelk: the "not fully legally capable" applies to contracts, minors have the same privacy protections as any other person by law |
| 16:32 |
twoelk |
just declare you do not offer privacy and everything will be logged and used against you |
| 16:32 |
Shara |
sfan5: the new laws were meant to unify things for the whole of Europe, but in reality probably won't |
| 16:33 |
twoelk |
yes but can they understand what giving others access to their privat chat can mean for themeselves |
| 16:34 |
Shara |
Most things involving personal information come down to informing the user and having a legitimate purpose for processing of any information. |
| 16:36 |
Shara |
If you want to over interpret things, you can even start getting into issues of whether it's right to host an MT server in the US when you have EU based players, and they might not realise it's in the US, then they end up disclosing some piece of person info and suddenly it's on a US server. |
| 16:36 |
Shara |
personal* |
| 16:37 |
twoelk |
ok, I found a loophole; IhrFussel you must declare yourself captain and your server a ship at sea: https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/tkg_2004/__88.html |
| 16:37 |
shivajiva |
:) |
| 16:37 |
tenplus1 |
lol |
| 16:37 |
shivajiva |
hiya tenplus |
| 16:38 |
tenplus1 |
hi shiva, how's things |
| 16:38 |
shivajiva |
not bad thanks, busy mostly |
| 16:38 |
Mr-Pardison |
twoelk: stateless pirate. |
| 16:39 |
tenplus1 |
:P |
| 16:39 |
shivajiva |
all governments use it, British law is founded on maritime law |
| 16:42 |
twoelk |
anyways the complete german Telecommunication law (TKG) may be studied here: https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/tkg_2004/ |
| 16:43 |
shivajiva |
when you confirm you understand you are actually standing under the jurisdiction of the persons authority to the letter of the law |
| 16:43 |
tenplus1 |
line 54 states - "Do it!... just DO it!!!!" |
| 16:45 |
shivajiva |
as a legal entity you surrender your rights, they have to ask you to surrender them because they cannot take them |
| 16:47 |
shivajiva |
you might wonder why, it's because they are your servants, they just don't like to highlight that part |
| 16:49 |
* Shara |
keeps wondering where that part got lost |
| 16:50 |
Mr-Pardison |
maybe in translation. |
| 16:50 |
tenplus1 |
ehehe |
| 16:51 |
* twoelk |
wonders wether a server farm on a ship in international waters might be a good way of becoming rich |
| 16:51 |
twoelk |
might get drowned in porno though |
| 16:51 |
Mr-Pardison |
how would you power it? |
| 16:52 |
tenplus1 |
hydropumps |
| 16:52 |
twoelk |
with porno? lots of energy in that |
| 16:52 |
tenplus1 |
all that water |
| 16:52 |
tenplus1 |
same with cooling |
| 16:52 |
sofar |
pff, everyone knows most datacenters are 80% porno anyway |
| 16:53 |
twoelk |
yeah read some numbers lately |
| 16:54 |
twoelk |
them porno server farms are pretty impressive - probably larger than any secret service datafarm |
| 16:54 |
sofar |
euh |
| 16:54 |
sofar |
maybe in germany, lol |
| 16:55 |
twoelk |
any pocket book contains more data than the bnd uses |
| 16:56 |
twoelk |
probably more secrets in a little girls diary than the BND ever wants to process |
| 16:57 |
twoelk |
the tax-databases, that's where the real deep data lies |
| 17:00 |
tenplus1 |
so many servers, it's hard to guess what percent is public or private |
| 17:03 |
sofar |
oh look, the real Dantdm is playing on ITB |
| 17:03 |
sofar |
interesting that he moved to louisiana |
| 17:04 |
sofar |
he sounds so british in his youtube streams :) |
| 17:04 |
tenplus1 |
he uploaded any itb vids on youtube yet ? |
| 17:04 |
Mr-Pardison |
wonder if they will learn creole. |
| 17:04 |
sofar |
he's in the tutorial |
| 17:06 |
tenplus1 |
kewl... mt needs more recognition in youtube :) |
| 17:07 |
tenplus1 |
was so happy when robbie did episode on xanadu, even though he pronounced name wrong 20 times :P eheh |
| 17:07 |
sofar |
he's finished 2 boxes! |
| 17:09 |
tenplus1 |
how many boxes you up to now ? |
| 17:14 |
twoelk |
8 in tutorial iirc |
| 17:15 |
tenplus1 |
hi twoelk |
| 17:15 |
Krock |
tenplus1, isn't it pronounced like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LDxcfTm1QTc |
| 17:15 |
twoelk |
o/ |
| 17:16 |
tenplus1 |
if anyone is interested in a tweaked falling entity with damage and unbreakable node check: https://pastebin.com/qN53V8qm |
| 17:17 |
tenplus1 |
krock: yeah, but based on http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tm4eoUpfRro |
| 17:26 |
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| 17:43 |
twoelk |
Hm Xanadu = ʂɑ̂ŋ tú (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shangdu) |
| 18:02 |
tenplus1 |
laters folks o/// |
| 18:02 |
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| 18:06 |
sofar |
I don't want to know what that third / is |
| 18:30 |
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| 18:38 |
Hijiri |
arm-mounted bayonet |
| 18:39 |
Mr-Pardison |
a.k.a sword? |
| 18:40 |
Hijiri |
A sword usually isn't fastened to your arm, unless you count holding it in your hand |
| 18:42 |
twoelk |
he's standing on one leg |
| 18:43 |
Krock |
i.e. add glue to your sword |
| 18:44 |
Mr-Pardison |
or just get some cable ties and cinch those down. |
| 18:45 |
Krock |
or increase the mass of your hand and the sword so the gravity holds both together |
| 18:46 |
Mr-Pardison |
that works. |
| 19:03 |
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| 19:14 |
Mr-Pardison |
so, when a player is in a bed during the night, does the game automatically take them out of it or do they stay in it until they manually leave it? |
| 19:15 |
Mr-Pardison |
and this is when you have multiple players in the game but not enough to force night skip. |
| 19:17 |
* Shara |
deletes all the beds |
| 19:18 |
Mr-Pardison |
I was just lying in the fancy bed I had made on DL and it kept me in the bed even though it wasn't night (not enough players in beds to force a night skip) |
| 19:19 |
Shara |
Skipping night on DL feels like cheating |
| 19:20 |
Mr-Pardison |
unless you're the only one in the game. |
| 19:20 |
Shara |
That makes it even more like cheating! |
| 19:20 |
Shara |
I really should finish that cursed helm I was thinking about... that makes the light damage you instead |
| 19:20 |
Mr-Pardison |
but what if one is exploring? |
| 19:20 |
Shara |
Take torches! |
| 19:21 |
Mr-Pardison |
Personally, I prefer glostones since I've got a ton of them. |
| 19:22 |
Mr-Pardison |
but if I'm building something and am the only one in the game, I'll skip night since I like using natural light to build stuff (especially if it's in or near the water). |
| 19:30 |
BakerPrime |
I'm back, somewhat. :D |
| 19:30 |
BakerPrime |
It appears "industrial" mod is still stable, which comes as a surprise to me. |
| 19:31 |
BakerPrime |
(Sorry, out of context, I was looking into that mod earlier) |
| 19:37 |
longerstaff13-m |
Hey baker |
| 19:37 |
longerstaff13-m |
And pardison and Shara :P |
| 19:38 |
ThomasMonroe |
hey longer :D |
| 19:38 |
longerstaff13-m |
Hey Tre :P |
| 19:39 |
Mr-Pardison |
sup |
| 19:40 |
BakerPrime |
Hello longerstaff |
| 19:40 |
* twoelk |
stops the sun on most singleplayer worlds |
| 19:40 |
BakerPrime |
Hello Shara |
| 19:40 |
BakerPrime |
Hello Twoelk |
| 19:40 |
twoelk |
o/ |
| 19:52 |
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| 20:19 |
Fixer |
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DZrwWlJVMAApaeW.jpg:large |
| 20:29 |
Krock |
r/programmerhumor had a post about a multiplexer in drake logic: https://i.redd.it/zz5ct77gcbp01.png |
| 21:21 |
rubenwardy |
!title https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=4870&p=315970#p315970 |
| 21:21 |
MinetestBot |
rubenwardy: [Mod] Achievements [3.0.0] [awards] – Rewritten - Minetest Forums |
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