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IRC log for #minetest-hub, 2018-03-24

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Time Nick Message
00:27 twoelk|2 joined #minetest-hub
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01:29 Mr_Pardison joined #minetest-hub
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08:56 tenplus1 joined #minetest-hub
08:56 tenplus1 hi folks
10:47 tenplus1 Ambience Lite updated to 1.1 - Many new features and is lighter - https://github.com/tenplus1/ambience
10:49 Krock joined #minetest-hub
10:49 tenplus1 o/ Krock
10:49 Krock hi tenplus1
10:49 Krock :D
10:50 tenplus1 hows things ?
10:51 Krock fine! I just rebased and tested an older PR successfully.. and then found this command:  curl wttr.in/London
10:51 Krock amazing website :)
10:51 tenplus1 wha's that do ?
10:51 Krock it shows the weather
10:52 tenplus1 ohh, heh
10:52 tenplus1 ooh, fancy :)))
10:53 tenplus1 needs a rather large console to work tho :D
10:53 tenplus1 works for my wee town... w00t!
10:54 tenplus1 thansk for sharing :))))  here's something in return: https://github.com/tenplus1/ambience
10:57 tenplus1 brb
11:04 Krock nice. *clones*
11:05 tenplus1 lol
11:45 Fixer joined #minetest-hub
11:46 tenplus1 o/ Fixer
11:56 Wayward_One Hi all :)
11:56 tenplus1 hi wayward
12:05 Fixer hi
12:14 Mr_Pardison joined #minetest-hub
12:14 tenplus1 hi mister
12:14 Mr_Pardison hai
12:15 tenplus1 o///
12:16 tenplus1 wow, quick visit :P
12:25 aerozoic joined #minetest-hub
12:25 tenplus1 hi aerozoic
12:27 aerozoic wazup tenplus1
12:28 tenplus1 nothing much :P tinkering as always, you ?
12:39 lumberJ joined #minetest-hub
12:39 tenplus1 hi lumberJ
12:39 lumberJ hey tenplus1
12:41 aerozoic tenplus1, just tryin to figure out how to fix all the shit that went wrong updating to andriod 8.
12:42 tenplus1 eek, what happened ?
12:42 aerozoic some apps don't work. Settings didn't save. Some settings now appear to be completely gone, etc...
12:43 xerox123 tenplus1: does Ambiance add all the background noises?
12:43 xerox123 also, there a mod that tilt's player heads when they look up/down?
12:43 tenplus1 hi xerox, yes it comes with the sound files (1.2mb only)... and if you have a sounds folder inside your minetest one you can add your own music files :)
12:43 tenplus1 yeah seen that one :) it's good but laggy
12:44 xerox123 s/there/is there/
12:46 tenplus1 PlayerAnim mod is used on the TPS servers
12:59 Shara Hello :)
12:59 tenplus1 hi Shara
13:00 Shara Hi ten :)
13:00 tenplus1 hows things ?
13:00 Shara Not bad thanks. How's it going?
13:00 tenplus1 tried but okie :) you ?
13:00 * Shara points up :P
13:00 tenplus1 heh...
13:01 tenplus1 to me.... to you.... to me :P
13:01 Shara Should work on mods... but feeling a little mindless
13:01 tenplus1 lazy saturday
13:02 tenplus1 spend an hour tinkering, am done now... watching movie :D
13:02 Shara hehe
13:03 Shara Since most of what I'm working on can't be used on server yet, modding feels different for me lately
13:03 tenplus1 you'll see the fruits of your labor soon enough :D
13:04 Shara not sure.. making a game is slow
13:04 tenplus1 yup
13:04 Shara Sure, there are ways to cut corners, and just reuse a bunch of things, but that's nto really what I want to do
13:04 Shara not*
13:06 tenplus1 updated mobs animals and ambience lite and farming redo
13:06 tenplus1 but I'm wroried about group crafting, am getting weirdness
13:07 Shara I took a quick look at that and realised I wasn't sure why your PR used an override. Didn't have chance to look into it yet though
13:08 tenplus1 I couldnt add the {food_wheat = 1} group to wheat while it was being registered in default farming, has to be an override
13:08 Shara So it's just due to how farming registers things/.'
13:08 Shara ?
13:09 tenplus1 yeah... the register_plant function sets groups for nodes and craftitems like seed and crop internally, it's a pain in the ass
13:09 Shara Hmm, just that this might be needed for other things... and then they'd all need overrides, so it would probably be better to change that?
13:10 tenplus1 personally I'd register the wheat/cotton crop seperately from the growing stages and seed
13:10 tenplus1 but who knows how many other mods use it already as-is ?!?!
13:11 Shara Like I said, haven't looked at it, but surely it could be done in a way that if you don't pass in specific groups, then nothing changes
13:11 tenplus1 the add_plant function does include a group definition, but isnt used
13:12 tenplus1 and even if it were, what would use it ?  crop, seed, food item ?!?!
13:12 Shara It just seems weird to me that you create a situation where the mod has to override it's own items
13:12 tenplus1 easier to register it all seperately like I do in redo
13:14 Shara I've never looked at farming too closley
13:14 Shara I can't even easily update to your redo
13:15 tenplus1 the register function tries to handle too much I feel
13:15 tenplus1 but redo is a drop in replacement for it and it all works
13:15 Shara So everything about farming became just too annoying to look at unless it starts giving me errors :P
13:15 Shara your rdo doesn't have all the nodes mine has, so I mostly use it, but have to manually adjust any time I update
13:16 tenplus1 the sand_soil and wet_sand_soil are the only things it loses, but those have aliases set
13:16 Shara It was the scarecrows too
13:16 tenplus1 you talking farming plus ???
13:16 Shara I don't know which way round it was to be honest, but I switched from oen to the other at some point
13:17 Shara but to not lose things, had to make adjustments
13:17 tenplus1 ah, thought you were talking about default farming :)
13:17 tenplus1 redo has decent compatibility with plus, it aliases many things as replacements and scarecrows end up being jack'o'lanterns
13:17 Shara It's just why all farming mods annoy me now :)
13:17 Shara Yea, that's the issue.. I don't want the as jack o lanterns, I want them as scarecrows
13:18 tenplus1 I've seen players build better scarecrows with default nodes anyhoo :D
13:18 Shara Sorry, but I don't care. :P
13:18 Shara I want them
13:18 tenplus1 will look into it...
13:18 Shara I'm not messing up players builds, because they have already used them now
13:19 Shara I could probably stick the scarecrow in another mod and try and work something out... but then it gets messy
13:20 tenplus1 will add it with same textures/model and alias set
13:20 tenplus1 just need to check license
13:21 Shara I'm just hoping to get to the point where I can stop adjusting so many mods
13:21 Shara It was needed in the past, but I learned enough now that I hope it's not so needed
13:21 Shara ANd then updating can be easier :)
13:22 tenplus1 heh
13:22 tenplus1 checking farming_plus now
13:22 Shara :)
13:23 IhrFussel joined #minetest-hub
13:24 tenplus1 hi fussel
13:24 IhrFussel tenplus1, if a mod that runs per globalstep is "laggy" then it mostly means other mods lag the server a lot... playeranim takes less than 1 ms to execute but if other mods cause longer lags of course the animations will get stuck and look jaggy
13:26 IhrFussel Or choppy*
13:26 tenplus1 30 players using globalstep and checking/moving player bones in the model is laggy
13:26 tenplus1 even singleplayer
13:31 IhrFussel I don't find it that laggy on my server...mostly max_lag is 0.3 ... of course you will not get fluid movement cause that's impossible
13:33 tenplus1 it does add some well needed character to the player model :) moving heads is good
13:36 IhrFussel The core devs don't seem to be interested in head movement however
13:40 Shara Interested and prioritising it over other things... not the same :P
13:41 tenplus1 it's the little features that make a game
13:41 Shara Yes, but lots of things are more important than a moving head
13:41 tenplus1 true
13:42 IhrFussel Shara, the general opinion on most things is "use mods"
13:43 Shara Not seeing how that is relevant to what I said
13:43 Shara unless someone makes a decent PR to add it properly, you'll never actually know who may really be interested in supporting it
13:43 IhrFussel "use mods" to me means "we will not add that to our engine"
13:44 Shara quite often means they don't have time or consider it high enough priority to make it thesmelves
13:44 Shara not that they would not consider it if someone is going to help out
13:44 Fixer wonder how minecraft is doing head movement
13:46 Shara I mean, it's certainly something I'd support, for whatever that's worth, but I have zero intrest in trying to improve on the current mod myself (because time)
13:46 IhrFussel Instead of implementing small features players really need (head movement, wield view, knockback) people rather add new mapgens
13:46 Shara headmovement is a need?
13:47 lisac_ joined #minetest-hub
13:47 IhrFussel I would consider it a basic feature in a sandbox game
13:47 Shara Sorry, but that's a joke
13:47 Shara I would liek to see it done well, but it's not a need
13:47 Fixer new mapgens are nice. we have good selection already, gameplay aspect is overloocked sadly
13:48 Fixer mtg is insanely conservative
13:48 IhrFussel We will both have different opinions on what needs to be included in "basic features" obviously but what I don't understand is that people rather work on BIG things
13:48 IhrFussel It makes no sense
13:48 Shara what people seem to forget is that no one is going to rush to work on a thing they don't personally care about.
13:48 Fixer if you are patient enough to wait 50 years to habebasic features in :)
13:49 Shara Now if those who cared enough tried helping...
13:49 IhrFussel You should rather work on smaller things cause you can code more of those
13:49 Fixer have basic*
13:49 Shara Fussel, so you get to dictate what I should work on for MTG then?
13:49 Fixer opposing force is stronger
13:50 IhrFussel You already work on smaller things right now
13:50 Shara More than one time, I wanted a thing the devs didn't really care to work on themselves. Eventually made PRs myself... they got accepted
13:50 Shara I really suggest you try the same
13:51 Fixer Shara: no, it seems everyone accepted that MTG is fate is bare bone not really a game sandbox with very minimal features, this leaves very little room to expansion, what we need is new game alongside it
13:51 Fixer mtg fate*
13:51 Shara Fixer, I'm working on one of those too
13:51 IhrFussel I have no time for c++ I work fulltime on my server and add new things rapidly
13:52 Shara But I honestly think the biggest problem with MTG is everyone's combined attitude toward it
13:52 Fixer "What happens when an unstoppable force meets an immovable object?" - this is MTG development in a nutshell :D
13:53 IhrFussel I'm not talking about MTG though.... MTG is just a mod collection pretty much... what I want is more basic features in-engine and not in mods
13:53 Shara If it is only capable of being minimal base and nothing more, I guess I should go remove fireflies now then
13:53 Fixer Shara: minetest and minetest game development is very opposing in nature
13:54 Shara Fussel, sure, so does everyone, but you fun thing is you say "I have no time" then expect others to
13:54 Shara Fixer: I wonder why... maybe because people keep insisting everything is bad, then it is?
13:54 Fixer only few will get in, because meh, MTG is supposed to be simple blah blah, full stop
13:54 Shara Waste all energy moanign instead of doing.
13:54 Fixer no
13:54 Shara moaning*
13:54 Fixer nothing is accepted
13:54 Fixer much
13:54 IhrFussel Cause there are quite a few people working on c++ code... my issue is them working on things (almost) nobody asked for
13:55 Fixer people are working on engine, but only 1 is working on game itself, very very limited game
13:55 Shara Uhh
13:55 Fixer simplified a bit
13:55 Shara Okay, I'll leave MTG then since apparently I'm not working on it?
13:56 Fixer Shara: what you need is to argue with paramat about MTG future
13:56 Fixer people don't have for that
13:56 Fixer in his opinion - it was intended as simple game, mod base, etc, that leaves very little room to improvement/additions etc
13:56 Shara I look at MTG things pretty much every day. But apaprently only paramat works on it
13:57 Fixer mostly he is
13:57 Fixer everyone lost interest in MTG long ago, because of big conservatism and opposition to make it full game, instead of small sandbox
13:57 Shara I guess I don't exist and nothign I do exists then
13:58 Fixer this is simplified look
13:58 Shara It's an incorrect one
13:58 Shara Because you made up your mind and that's the end to it for you
13:59 Fixer say paramat wants minetest game to be like a wooden box, so it is wooden box, you can't add hands to it or make car of it :D
13:59 Wayward_One People spend time on what they are able to do and interests them. You can't really expect people to devote their free time to something they don't enjoy
13:59 Shara I disagree with your interpretations in full
14:00 Shara Can paramat be overly conservative sometimes? Sure. But I've made him change his mind on more than one thing (hint: I didn't do it by moaning or insulting)
14:00 Fixer i can already judge extreme conservatism after 7 years of watching MTG development
14:01 Shara 7 years... a lot changes, including the people involved, in that time
14:01 IhrFussel Wayward_One, and THAT is one huge disadvantage of OSS ... if people work at a company they HAVE TO do what the boss says else they are fired... and that is also why companies can complete their programs so fast
14:01 Shara Fussel, you are stating the obvious :)
14:02 IhrFussel I know but I had to repeat it again ... IMO it's worthless if someone works on something I don't need
14:02 Shara Decide to run servers on an open source game.. then decide the problem is that it's open source and the devs are volunteers? :)
14:03 Shara Lol, that's really selfish of you.
14:03 Shara Just because you don't need or want a thing, doesn't mean no one does
14:03 Fixer how much MTG changed in 7 years? more good blocks added, carts, keys, kindamap, binoculars, slippery, nicer biomes, steel and flint, fireflies
14:03 IhrFussel That's not selfish, it's normal ... it wouldn't give me anything
14:03 Fixer and jump trick was disabled by default
14:03 Fixer but that is not part of the game
14:03 Fixer also, few ores added
14:03 Shara Yes, it's selfish, because it's you only caring about you and not about what other users care about
14:04 Fixer but gameplay itself is not changed
14:04 IhrFussel Okay let me rephrase: If someone works on something the community clearly doesn't need (as much as other things) then it will not make them happy
14:04 Shara See, that's better.
14:04 Fixer there is no 3d mods, no armour, tools still unbalanced, no sprinting debate, no hangar debate, no mobs, no automation
14:04 Fixer 3d models*
14:05 Shara Well Fixer, all i can say is that as someone trying to us ethe tiny bit of spare time I get to make any difference at all, the fact that you judge me to not even exist as far as MTG goes, is hugely demotivating.
14:05 Fixer it is not about you, you came relatively recently
14:06 Shara No, it's not about me, but how can anyone feel happy or good contributing when you and others are thorwing round endless negativity?
14:06 tenplus1 Farming Redo updated, scarecrow bottom added
14:06 Shara You want change and help make an environment where it's less likely to happen
14:06 Fixer tenplus1: nice
14:07 Fixer Shara: you can't change much since paramat is opposed, because game is meant to be simple, end of story
14:07 tenplus1 5x sticks in cross shape gives you wooden base, compatible with farming_plus' scarecrow bottom also
14:07 Shara Just nothign I see lately matches anything you say
14:07 Shara nothing*
14:11 tenplus1 ??
14:12 Shara Fixer's massive negativity and ideas nothing can change
14:13 IhrFussel MTG gets 1/10th as many PRs as MTE ... I bet that's largely cause barely anyone knows what paramat and others even want in MTG
14:13 Shara Fussel, I'm the first to admit that's the hardest part
14:13 Fixer Shara: i only hope paramat will not be opposed to your changes, that will be fine
14:13 Shara But the negativity seems likely to prevent people from even trying
14:14 Fixer it is not just negativity, it is mostly dead, if you check engine activity and game activity, it is very sad :(
14:14 Shara Fixer, he's the one who asked to add fireflies.. and has also asked that I add butterflies. I know these are very small things and don't magically fix the game, but it's showing new content can happen, even directly at his request
14:15 Shara And yes, it's sad... but I really think the kinds of comments you make put people off who might otherwise be interested
14:15 * tenplus1 is so depressed now, eating donuts to compensate :P
14:15 Fixer you can't go anywhere without paramat approval in MTG
14:16 Fixer pretty much, he has a veto power de facto
14:16 Shara What I want to see is at least one more (maybe more..) alternative official games, so people can then choose depending on what they want.
14:16 Shara Fixer: No, he doesn't :)
14:16 Wayward_One Lol ten :P
14:16 Shara tenplus1: send me one please??
14:16 IhrFussel Maybe you should offer some kind of "service" where people can state their ideas and you can then discuss them ... I mean something outside github something simpler..like an email
14:16 * tenplus1 has chocolate and raspberry :)))))))  *shares*
14:16 Shara Bring them up here?
14:17 Shara Sadly a lot of what peopel bring up does have problems, but there's also things that I am pretty sure could get support
14:17 Shara wield view for example.. this should be included
14:17 IhrFussel Or you should write down somewhere (maybe forum?) what kind of additions you will definitely not accept...like vehicles
14:19 IhrFussel Or make criterias for additions...there are multiple ways to take the "fear" of people
14:19 Shara I even wrote a list before, but it didn't seem to help
14:20 Shara Sadly wieldview needs model work, and that's not something I can help with
14:22 tenplus1 doesnt stu already have a wield3d mod that shows what you are holding without new player model ?
14:22 Fixer tenplus1: he does, and there is one more mod for that
14:23 Shara https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/1447
14:23 Fixer Shara: i only hope you will succeed in adding something useful and needed into MTG
14:23 tenplus1 https://github.com/stujones11/wield3d
14:23 Shara Well, maybe people should make what they find needed clear as well.
14:24 Fixer wield3d and wieldview are available for ages, yet this basic stuff was not merged in, thankfully, carts were merged
14:24 newbie|2 joined #minetest-hub
14:24 IhrFussel Well I'd say fireflies are part of "gameplay aspect" so Shara helped the community in a way
14:24 Fixer yes, they are, but thats only first small step
14:25 IhrFussel Yeah but not sure how "big" a feature can be in MTG
14:25 Shara Current way I'm working, is main focus on my own game, but then if something worked on there seems important for MTG as well, I'm hoping it can be considered for both.
14:25 IhrFussel paramat wants everything to be tiny and lightweight, no room for something more special
14:25 tenplus1 wb twoelk
14:25 Shara I won't do that with everything of course, since some things simply won't work in MTG, and I also want my own game to stay unique
14:25 Fixer IhrFussel: be lucky, we have carts in MTG, thats like building of nuclear reactor at home kinda hard
14:26 twoelk o/
14:26 IhrFussel Carts that don't even work correctly yeah
14:26 Fixer \o
14:26 Fixer IhrFussel: file a bug (it is important), I checked it last time in singleplayer, it was fine
14:26 Shara But Fixer, what other vital things are missing (which don't need models or engine changes)?
14:26 IhrFussel At least on slopes they trap me in an endless loop
14:27 IhrFussel sometimes*
14:27 Fixer Shara: main part is here https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/515
14:27 Shara I'd rather real thoughts for now than years old discussion to struggle through
14:28 Fixer Shara: problem is huge, it is debate on debate, i will start line by line
14:28 Shara And you might already know I have been pushing hard for underground content
14:28 Fixer 1) 3d models - already discussed
14:29 Fixer 2) unbalanced tools, bronze is out of place, too many tools
14:29 Fixer 3) hangar/sprinting debate
14:29 Fixer 4) keeping stuff in invetory slot debate
14:29 Fixer 5) mob debate
14:29 Fixer 6) ambience debate (rare weather)
14:29 Fixer 7) automation debate
14:30 Fixer 8) autopickup or like in minecraft debate
14:30 tenplus1 more tree schematics would be a good idea
14:30 Fixer 9) more tree schematics
14:30 Fixer advocated by me btw
14:30 tenplus1 make the forest areas and jungles more random looking instead of all at similar levels
14:30 Fixer 10) armour debate
14:30 Fixer 11) baked clay
14:30 Fixer 12) space, other realms debate
14:30 tenplus1 use bakedclay mod, it's there if ya need it :P
14:31 Fixer 13) breaking chests debate
14:31 tenplus1 13 ????? huh
14:31 Shara Well there's PR hanging around for start of ambient sound, trees are being worked on, sprint needs some monoids feature and that's now being considered. Most you bring up needs models or engine change.
14:31 Fixer right now you can't break up chest and pick up items like in minecraft, it goes in different way
14:31 Mr_Pardison joined #minetest-hub
14:31 Fixer mc way is much easier
14:31 tenplus1 wb mister
14:31 Mr_Pardison Tanks.
14:31 tenplus1 break chest and it drops all items inside ?
14:31 Fixer 14) no knockback
14:32 Shara Personally I'd hate chests like that
14:32 Shara But either way, this already sounds like your personal wishlist instead of actual vital things
14:32 Fixer 15) no throwing api
14:32 Fixer you can go different way
14:32 Fixer look what servers add
14:32 tenplus1 we need the player damage system to give reasons for damage...
14:32 tenplus1 so mods can respond
14:33 Fixer you will notice right away 3d models/sprinting/hangar/armour/foods/mobs
14:33 twoelk been told everything is prepared for more interesting underground - just needs content
14:33 Mr_Pardison tenplus1: like when a player kills another one?
14:33 IhrFussel Work on MTG will never proceed if almost every thing someone comes up with and that lots of people actually want gets denied just because 1 or 2 MTG devs disagree with it
14:33 tenplus1 if killed by player, return playername in hp_change...  same with nodes that do damage or custom damage
14:33 tenplus1 we need this
14:34 Shara Ten, yes, that's needed, but surely that's an engien thing?
14:34 IhrFussel It's kinda selfish to decide alone or as 2 people over something lots of other people brought up
14:34 Fixer do not forget to use https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/515 as a discussion platform for MTG features
14:34 tenplus1 also https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4503 oldie but a goodie
14:34 Mr_Pardison IF we could do that, then someone could make a bounty hunting mod.
14:34 tenplus1 we could finally have proper death messages and such
14:34 Fixer yes, map layering, aka realms
14:34 Fixer in a way
14:34 Shara Mr P, i mentioned that just yesterday...
14:35 tenplus1 we have 60,000 nodes going top to bottom, we NEED layering to help with realms
14:35 Fixer yes
14:35 Fixer and 30000 is empty space
14:35 Mr_Pardison https://github.com/4Evergreen4/death_messages
14:35 Shara Mr P, yea, there's lot sof ways to try and make it work right, but it's all pretty messy work arounds
14:35 tenplus1 tried that mod, is ok but gets it wrong at times
14:35 Mr_Pardison yeah.
14:36 Fixer just my opinion, I always waited MTG to became something like late minecraft beta, with then inclusion of really different games alongside
14:36 Shara Fixer: the moment you start talking about MC I simply can't help you. No frame of reference, because I've never played it
14:36 Fixer also sad, to see no inclusion of Wuzzy Tutorial game, for usual reasons
14:37 Shara I also dislike the idea of trying to copy MC. I'd just get MC if that was what I wanted
14:37 Fixer remove ,
14:37 IhrFussel For a death message mod to work right you'd need to count nodes of a pretty high radius and then compare
14:37 Mr_Pardison we need some way to get the game to register a PvP attack. Anyone have any ideas, just toss them out and let's see if they would work.
14:37 Fixer Shara: MTG coppies early MC anyway
14:37 Shara Fixer, maybe it does, but I certainly don't.
14:37 Fixer Shara: MC beta = MTG + armour + mobs + simple automation
14:37 Shara I'd rather judge things based on their own merrit, regardless of whether another game has or has not used them
14:38 IhrFussel Or just get the 1st,2nd,3rd,4th etc nodes under/above you
14:38 Fixer MC beta is extremally simple yet ideal as voxel game of choice
14:38 twoelk erm - I think mt could well copy the one or other good stuff of other gamjes
14:38 twoelk -j
14:39 IhrFussel Don't forget that the death callback can be triggered lots of times while someone is dead...for example the stamina mod (AFAIK) causes the death callback to be called every few secs
14:39 Shara twoelk: sure, and I don't mind that, but people seem to talk like they want to copy for the sake of copying, not necessarily because it's a good or the right thing to do
14:39 Fixer MC beta = MTG + bow + armour + mobs (and their farming via water push) + simple automation (switch, plates, button, redstone)
14:39 tenplus1 mc source is available for anyone who wants to take the time to port c++ to lua and copy it exactly :P
14:40 Fixer it was considered more or less complete game in 2011, and I agree with that
14:40 IhrFussel * could be fixed in 0.5.0
14:40 Shara I don't think another game having something is a reason not to use it, but I also don't want to include things just because anotehr game has them
14:40 Fixer tenplus1: that is not legal, though
14:40 tenplus1 eheheheh
14:40 Fixer Shara: those things make game fun, MTG - does not make it fun
14:40 Roger9_ What is backport-0.4? Is it a version of MT 0.4 with the ability to connect to 0.5 servers?
14:40 Fixer the reason why nobody uses vanilla MTG on servers :D
14:41 twoelk seeing how much time and effort players in other games invest in their ingame appearence, mt could win with some better skin/clothes/armor concept
14:41 Shara Roger9_: it's like stable, but with bugfixes
14:41 Roger9_ Shara: Ah.
14:41 * Roger9_ yays
14:41 Shara Fixer: personally I don't find adding armour or whatever is automatically fun
14:42 Roger9_ How would I git clone the backport-0.4 branch? not used to doing that kind of thing
14:42 Fixer Shara: it broads your vistas
14:42 Roger9_ nvm, found it
14:42 Shara Anyway, MT still doesn['t have a good armour mod in my opinion
14:43 tenplus1 am still using the 0.4 branch of 3d armor
14:43 Mr_Pardison g2g
14:43 tenplus1 just updated it to use playerplus :P
14:43 Fixer minetest damage handling is odd to me
14:43 Shara I find 3d armor really poor
14:43 Fixer in those armour mods
14:43 Fixer i can stand in diamond armour and receive no damage from mobs, something is wrong here
14:43 Shara the textures are bad, the way the mod is structured (when I last checked, no clue about now) was bad, the damage balance is terrible
14:43 CWz joined #minetest-hub
14:44 tenplus1 armor levels needs to be tweaked
14:44 tenplus1 hi CWz
14:44 Shara z fighting when you try make your own textures (again, unless something last changed since...)
14:45 Shara I don't understand why the modpack has three different inventory mods... I don't want to have mods running on my server that I have zero use for even if they do nothing...
14:46 tenplus1 player:set_hp(new_hp, reason_for_change)
14:47 twoelk maybe the hazmat suit should be in a place more apart
14:47 Fixer heh https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/graphs/contributors
14:48 Fixer paramat - 314 commits, sofar - 122 (wants mtg die), celeron55 - 70 (inactive), PilzAdam - 66 (inactive), tenplus1 - 46 (active), BlockMen (inactive) - 41, SmallJoker (active) - 24, ...
14:49 tenplus1 sofar wants mtg to die ? wut ?
14:49 Shara More realistic current view would be https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/graphs/contributors?from=2017-03-25&to=2018-03-24&type=c
14:49 twoelk he said so
14:50 twoelk but will still add fixes :-D
14:50 tenplus1 erk
14:51 twoelk I think something good might be to clean mtg more up and modularize it more
14:51 Shara twoelk: yes, wuold be good
14:51 tenplus1 that would make things easy to work with
14:52 twoelk applying a clear system to all node names might be a start
14:52 tenplus1 example plz
14:52 Shara Can't change node names without making a huge mess
14:53 xerox123 are 'clusters' a thing in minetest? or are they just a different word for blocks?
14:53 tenplus1 would be great if we had a BASE library of items to use within games and mods though
14:53 tenplus1 pain in the ass trying to craft something that needs milk when no mobs are isntalled for eg.
14:53 Fixer i've suggested modularisation long ago
14:56 Shara I like having things split so it's easy to remove individual bits you might not want
14:56 twoelk Shara: make the mess as early as possible to get on with it
14:56 Shara Or to replace them with something else
14:56 Shara twoelk: bit late now. MTG isn't exactly a new project
14:57 twoelk guess that's why sofar wants to kill it - too old to fix :-P
14:57 Shara Change all the nodenames and either you break every existing world using MTG on next udpate, or you have to add a load of aliases... so you still have mess
14:57 Shara You can however change descriptions... which is what the player actually sees
14:58 tenplus1 since 0.5 breaks quite a few things it's prolly ok to start changing what you can get away with
14:59 Shara 0.5 isn't meant to break maps though
15:00 tenplus1 true
15:03 Fixer Shara: in that timeframe, paramat alone accounts for 45% of code additions, paramat + you = 60%, paramat + you + tumeni = 70%...
15:04 Fixer if you look into code additions - it mostly paramat active, everyone else adds rarely, and you added recently
15:07 Shara See why I would like more people to open PRs for some of these things then?
15:10 Fixer hah, good luck with that
15:10 pauloue joined #minetest-hub
15:10 Fixer everyone knows it is hard to convince opposing force :)
15:10 Shara then maybe convince me of ideas instead, so I can worry about that part :)
15:11 Fixer we listed some already, have fun :D
15:11 Shara You just gave your personal wish list
15:11 Shara And paid no attention to criteria I set
15:11 Fixer https://www.meme-arsenal.com/memes/fd8054c14bfacfaa9923003f79221a96.jpg
15:12 Shara some solid suggestions of things I can work on, and I'd probably work on them
15:12 Fixer Shara: armour and 3d models
15:13 Shara See, what part of me saying I can't work on models did you not get?
15:13 Fixer let me look into github
15:14 Shara Things I'd love to see added are wield view and sprint. And I'd love better tool balance, but it's difficult to find a good way to do that
15:14 Fixer Shara: ok, here is lazy stuff for you: rebalance the tools (evil laugh)
15:15 Shara Hehe
15:15 Shara I would like to
15:15 Amaz Getting tools balanced well is hard.
15:15 Shara Very hard.
15:15 tenplus1 o/ amaz
15:15 Shara It's much easy when starting from scratch and you can plan the system
15:15 Amaz Yeah
15:15 Shara easier*
15:16 Amaz Hi ten :)
15:16 Shara But MTG only has three levels of tool as well from what I recall, which doesn't really give many possibilities
15:16 Fixer Shara: that's the problem with MTG, you can't add, you can't remove because reasons
15:16 Amaz Especially when you can give all the nodes custom groups, to allow more fine tuning.
15:17 Shara Well the only reason not to add more tools/ores is because there's already more than we have good use for
15:17 Fixer i would rather throw out half the tools and simplified them, but that will "break the mods"
15:17 Fixer and that tin debacle
15:17 Fixer MTG is silly :)
15:17 Shara I still don't get why anyone thought it was good to add more metals
15:18 Fixer if someone wants space and rocketry here - it makes sense in a future
15:18 Fixer as of now most of them are decorative
15:18 tenplus1 tool progression is important...  it SHOULD be flint -> stone -> iron -> bronze -> steel -> mese -> diamond
15:18 Fixer tenplus1: too much steps :D
15:18 Shara I still find diamond tools silly :)
15:18 Fixer tenplus1: -> nuclear
15:18 Fixer tenplus1: -> fission nuclear -> fusion nuclear actually -> singlularity in MTG
15:19 tenplus1 we'll leave those last one's for the mods :D
15:19 Shara Fixer, fix the iron/steel mess? :)
15:19 Fixer Shara: everything is mess, not just this :(
15:19 Fixer i can feel sofar breath on this
15:19 Shara Yea, but you need to start somewhere
15:19 Fixer you can't run car with square wheels
15:20 Shara Good thing MTG doesn't have cars then
15:20 Fixer Shara: paramat is lazy, he does not want to deal with that steel too deep
15:20 Shara I don't think you can call person doing most of work lazy
15:20 Fixer Shara: in regard to steel problem, i mean
15:21 Shara Now I'd suggest a good solution tot his, but I am struggling to find one
15:21 tenplus1 https://minecraft.gamepedia.com/Armor (scroll down to defense points)
15:21 Fixer Shara: you can't, because it breaks everything unfortunately
15:21 Shara So how to resolve it?
15:21 Fixer Shara: break things :D
15:22 Shara But in which way?
15:22 Fixer alias or smth
15:22 Shara So you want to change all steel things to iron?
15:22 Fixer let me open minetest
15:22 Fixer wait, you want to tackle steel itself? okay
15:22 Shara well, any of this stuff
15:22 Fixer do you want it realistic?
15:22 Shara I'm open to any solution
15:23 Fixer making steel takes several stages unfortunately
15:23 Fixer you need to introduce charcoal into the game, but who wants it?
15:23 Shara Is there any way to simplify it that would be a good balance?
15:23 tenplus1 mixing iron and carbon = steel (easy recipe)
15:23 Fixer not really
15:24 Fixer you actually need to reduce amount of carbon in iron
15:24 Shara I suspect your average child playing the game doesn't care much about realism
15:24 tenplus1 https://ftb.gamepedia.com/Steel
15:24 Fixer i have no idea how you can simplify it without breaking everything
15:24 Shara But sticking iron in a furnace then getting steel ingot makes no sense, even to someone who doesn't understand metalwork
15:25 Shara Steel ingots making iron bars.. again, no sense
15:25 Fixer Shara: one way is just rename everything into wrought iron
15:25 tenplus1 isnt that getting changed, I saw a pull earlier
15:25 Fixer Shara: that is better way
15:25 Fixer simpler way
15:26 Fixer Shara: old way of smelting is charcoal + iron = blob of molten iron that you work with hammer into wrought iron (ingots are not possible with this it seems)
15:27 Fixer ingot can be renamed into iron bars
15:27 Shara tenplus1: depends on results of the debate :)
15:27 Shara Fixer: so liek I said to begin, change steel to iron, but also break consistency of how each metal works, and also add hammer?
15:27 lokambert joined #minetest-hub
15:27 tenplus1 hi loka
15:27 Fixer Shara: hammer part is annoying
15:27 Fixer and charcoal
15:28 Fixer coal is not used in even old metal smelting it seems
15:28 Shara (If anyone wants voice - PM an op please)
15:30 twoelk coal was not used much at the beginning of metal age because it wasn't widely used for anything
15:30 twoelk wood and charcoal was what was there in the beginning
15:31 Shara Current furnace will use any fuel to convert any item which can be cooked
15:31 Shara so even if you add charcoal, it's meaningless unless you somehow enforce which fuel is used
15:32 Shara Or do you then want to remove the registrations for everything else that is currently a fuel?
15:32 Shara (if you enforce use of one fuel, they are useless anyway)
15:32 tenplus1 we could add levels to the cooking crafts... level 1 uses normal furnace, level 2 needs a blast furnace for instance
15:32 tenplus1 blast furnaces go through fuel quicker
15:32 twoelk but aside from that I'm slowly asuming a position to not simplify but change the very way tools are weighted ingame
15:32 Shara tools and materials are two different (closely related) issues
15:34 Shara But the ingots issue is bigger than iron to steel
15:34 Shara Because if you want realism, I'm pretty sure burning grass won't allow you to making other ingots
15:34 Shara make*
15:35 twoelk except for some magic-fictional material I think steel should be the best basic toll/weapon/armour material - that could be enhanced by something else for specific purposes though
15:35 Fixer twoelk: charcoal gives higher temperature
15:35 twoelk eh, oil even more but doesn't work that way
15:36 Amaz If you want realism, then you probably shouldn't be looking for it in a world made of cubes, where you can carry 3168 cubic meters of stone :P
15:36 Shara ^
15:36 Shara Exactly
15:36 twoelk like adding diamonds makes drill better but is useless for sword
15:36 Krock "magic-fictional material"  *thinks of MESE*
15:36 Fixer twoelk: look how this art is done today, they still use charcoal
15:36 Shara SO this all just boils down to a question of... how much does realistic metalworking actually matter?
15:36 Fixer yeah, at this point MTG is silly
15:37 Shara I mean, iron ore to steel ingot to iron bar is ... beyond silly either way, but changing description is simple.
15:37 twoelk metalworking is one place I would break free from mc and other games
15:39 Shara Oddly, metalworking caused huge debates and disatisfaction in the last game I worked on... it seems to be one of those things where people have very different expectations
15:39 twoelk interesting
15:39 Amaz There's certainly no need to keep things as they are, if someone wants to, and more importantly has the time and energy to change it, but the most important aspect isn't realism, but what makes for a good game, and adds playability/interest to the game.
15:39 tenplus1 for soft metals like iron, gold, copper a normal furnace is good
15:39 Shara Yup, so my question is how it should work
15:40 tenplus1 but making blast bricks to craft a blast furnace for the harder metals like steel etc would be a good progression
15:40 Shara Because I mostly seem moans and/or complaints but no suggestions of actual working systems to use instead
15:41 twoelk well you go to the doctor to tell him it hurts and expect him to tell you why
15:41 Shara I'll also take suggestions for the game I'm working on as well, since I don't want it to have these issues
15:41 * Shara hands everyone their own stethoscopes
15:41 Fixer Amaz: yeah
15:41 Shara You are all the doctors now
15:42 Shara And MTG is hereby your patient
15:42 Fixer also, bronze pickaxe? really?
15:43 twoelk yep- it happened long ago in real life
15:43 Shara bronze tools make sense if included in logical progression
15:43 tenplus1 yup
15:44 Shara stone to bronze to iron
15:44 twoelk broze picks where better than those of antler
15:44 Fixer "Though bronze is generally harder than wrought iron"
15:44 tenplus1 blast brick = 2x iron ingots + 2x stone
15:44 twoelk stone picks are surprisingly effective
15:44 Fixer but we have steel tools :D
15:44 tenplus1 9x blast bricks = blast furnace --- progression to level 2 smelting
15:45 Shara In HW, tool progression planned so far puts steel as one of highest tiers
15:45 twoelk yeah, early iron tools where pretty bad - but plenty - tin was rare
15:45 Fixer "In many parts of the world, large hoards of bronze artifacts are found, suggesting that bronze also represented a store of value and an indicator of social status. In Europe, large hoards of bronze tools, typically socketed axes (illustrated above), are found, which mostly show no signs of wear."
15:45 Fixer eh
15:46 Fixer tenplus1: problem is then we need to convince paramat about this, actually about everything
15:46 Fixer tenplus1: introducing second furnace will be hard to sell
15:47 tenplus1 true, talking about it is one thing, making the code and textures and presenting the pull is another
15:47 Shara my problem is that I can't see any real way to do it without losing lots of items, or adding lots...
15:48 Shara doesn't mean something shouldn't change, but would probably need new uses for metals first
15:48 Amaz In the system I'm in the very early stages of planning, different materials are good for different things. e.g. Bronze is good for weapons, not so good for mining, mithril is good for armour, but not too much else, steel is good for mining, and different ways of making it make it suited for different purporses. (e.g. one way of making it is good for axes, but it needs to be made in another way for picka
15:48 Amaz xes).
15:48 tenplus1 not at all, if anything we'll be adding iron ore/ingot/block/tools and a new furnace... some change of recipes and adding level 1 or 2 to cooking requirements shouldnt be too bad
15:49 Amaz Not overly realistic, but it should be interesting (with a lot more work *sigh*)
15:49 tenplus1 the steel items and ingot we already have...
15:49 Shara Ten, what I see is iron getting added in addition to steel, current steel tools becoming iron ones, then steel tools being some higher rank
15:50 Shara But can't see how to justify new metal either
15:51 Fixer lol
15:51 Fixer eh
15:53 twoelk I think convincing paramat or any other dev wouldn't be too hard if it is a working solution and it is not expected for them to fix all issues
15:55 Fixer "The Chinese of the Warring States period (403–221 BC) had quench-hardened steel,[22] while Chinese of the Han dynasty (202 BC – 220 AD) created steel by melting together wrought iron with cast iron, gaining an ultimate product of a carbon-intermediate steel by the 1st century AD"
15:55 tenplus1 ooh
15:56 Fixer still not good
15:56 Fixer "Since the 17th century, the first step in European steel production has been the smelting of iron ore into pig iron in a blast furnace. Originally employing charcoal, modern methods use coke, which has proven more economical"
15:56 Fixer "pig iron was refined (fined) in a finery forge to produce bar iron, which was then used in steel-making."
15:57 Shara twoelk: this is my thought as well.
15:57 Fixer "The raw material for this process were bars of iron"
15:57 tenplus1 at present I'm more concerned with this damned craft recipe glitch when using groups
15:58 Fixer hm
15:58 tenplus1 recipe works perfectly fine in singleplayer, but on server it's botched and I dunno why... cant get to the bottom of it
16:00 twoelk wasn't ther a recipe conflict checker on the forum somewhere?
16:01 tenplus1 that's the thing, the recipe in question is fine... been checked and works ok, just NOT on xanadu
16:01 twoelk btw have started a singleplayer world with new farming_redo version - not quite convinced yet
16:01 Fixer Shara: easiest way is to rename everything into wrought iron and be done with it, OCD will be lowered
16:02 tenplus1 yeah, have mod add steel :P ehehehe
16:02 tenplus1 twoelk: any issues ?
16:02 twoelk xanadu is evolving a mind of it's own
16:02 Fixer machine learning
16:02 twoelk nah just gameplaywise
16:03 twoelk will xanadu become gaia or skynet or ...
16:03 tenplus1 lol, hopefully not... dont want it taking over anything if I can help it :D
16:04 tenplus1 any gameplay ya dont like lemmie know, can always tweak
16:05 Shara I'd be fine just renaming things to iron
16:05 twoelk you are missing the point it allready has taken over your life and that of many a player
16:05 Shara tenplus1: new farming stuff on Xanadu now?
16:05 Shara I want to check it if so
16:06 twoelk not just new stuff but also new procedures
16:06 tenplus1 yeh
16:06 tenplus1 just updated
16:06 Fixer Shara: probably, yes
16:06 * Shara plays the "can I remember my password?" game
16:06 Fixer write down your passwords
16:07 * Fixer REMOVES above sentence
16:07 Fixer i still have not managed to join that train server
16:07 Shara heh
16:08 Fixer linuxworks 6/15 - too many players to join. ?????????????
16:09 Shara SOmehow, it seems like deleting my inventory is always the first thing I do when joining Xanadu...
16:09 Shara Where in the world do I pick up all this junk from? :D
16:09 Fixer Shara: autopick up vs manual pick up debate!
16:09 tenplus1 lol
16:10 Fixer Shara: when you blow up some TNT, you end up with tons of drops you have to pickup manually right now
16:10 Fixer thats reality we have
16:11 Fixer other way is to autopickup them, that rises more issues down the road though
16:11 * twoelk muses wether mtg should have inventory progression
16:11 Fixer this is sad
16:11 Fixer i now understand more why sofar wants it from scratch
16:13 Fixer to really rethink it slowly
16:20 cx384 joined #minetest-hub
16:21 tenplus1 hi cx384
16:21 cx384 hello
16:26 rubenwardy IhrFussel: the aim of Minetest is to make a game engine which offers lots of customisability
16:26 rubenwardy the easiest way to do this is to offload functionality from the engine to builtin and mods
16:26 rubenwardy which is why you see that a lot
16:27 rubenwardy that being said, knock back should be engine supported as it requires fancy networking
16:27 rubenwardy not sure about head movement
16:27 tenplus1 o/ ruben
16:27 rubenwardy o/
16:33 Roger9_ https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2937 hm, per-texture per-node shaders seems like an interesting idea
16:33 twoelk knockback should be considered fundamental for game interaction as  there will always be unstatic content
16:34 rubenwardy yes
16:34 rubenwardy it's pretty important as a game mechanic
16:34 rubenwardy not as important as say, lighting, however
16:35 twoelk you could shove a pig of a cliff in the dark
16:36 twoelk hey fixer you forgot all the lighting issues in your list
16:36 Fixer those belong to engine mostly
16:36 tenplus1 wasnt there a pull for knockback at one point and it was closed
16:37 tenplus1 playerplus adds it as a mod tho
16:37 Fixer yes, that knockback was not optimal
16:37 Fixer was not configurable
16:40 rubenwardy also, https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/projects/1
16:40 rubenwardy throwing, mobs, and ambient sounds are there
16:43 Roger9_ it looks like only one change seems to be required for the per-player time offset PR by Arcelmi
16:43 Roger9_ or maybe a couple
16:44 rubenwardy I'm wondering if it's better to add a   player:set_time()  API and then do the current code in builtin
16:44 rubenwardy I guess clients also run prediction on it
16:45 rubenwardy and the sending is just for syncing
16:45 rubenwardy Fixer, game#2097
16:45 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/2097 -- Add wield3d
16:45 Roger9_ I guess you could use player:set_timeofday(minetest.get_timeofday() + offset)
16:46 rubenwardy yeah
16:46 Roger9_ s/use/do
16:46 rubenwardy that's what built in would do
16:46 Roger9_ depends how the time syncing system works though, does the server send its time of day to the client?
16:47 rubenwardy it does
16:47 rubenwardy but the client may also do time_speed itself
16:47 Roger9_ whadya mean?
16:50 Roger9_ can client set a different time_speed?
16:50 Fixer rubenwardy: one problem with 3dweild was tools reversing 180 deg in hands for some reason
16:51 pauloue joined #minetest-hub
16:51 rubenwardy this is cool https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=19869
16:52 Roger9_ if the server sends its current time of day to the client then a time offset function for each player would make more sense... I think
16:52 Fixer niiice
16:52 Roger9_ rubenwardy: that is cool
16:53 Fixer rubenwardy: do we have isometric view of world map btw?
16:53 rubenwardy yes, est31 or xyz made one
16:53 rubenwardy forget the name
16:53 rubenwardy o something
16:53 Gael-de-Sailly joined #minetest-hub
16:54 Roger9_ if it's faster than loading the mapblocks themselves you might be able to add a LOD effect to minetest
16:55 tenplus1 ??
16:55 Roger9_ level of detail
16:56 tenplus1 ohh
16:56 Roger9_ basically, "loading" the world outside the render distance but with a lower detail, or using the seed and simplified version of the world generation algorithm to determine what would be there when you do load it
16:57 Roger9_ although I'm pretty sure the problem my computer has with a render distance any higher than about 50 (20 on any server, and even *at* 20 itself on some servers!) is too high of a polygon count... maybe
16:57 Roger9_ as the mapblocks/chunks/whatever you can't see are still loaded
16:59 rubenwardy I'd love to see rendering improvements
17:00 rubenwardy Far map is an attempt at LOD
17:00 rubenwardy but it looked very odd
17:00 Roger9_ ^
17:00 rubenwardy very unreal
17:00 Roger9_ far map?
17:00 Roger9_ I found an open pull request #3502 if that's what you mean
17:00 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3502 -- Far map and improved map transfer and rendering (WIP) by celeron55
17:00 rubenwardy that's it
17:00 rubenwardy quicker than me
17:01 rubenwardy personally, I found it ugly
17:01 Roger9_ eh, I'm gonna try it
17:01 rubenwardy it would be nice to have Bedrock map distance
17:03 Roger9_ if I can find out how
17:03 Roger9_ do I just do git clone -b far_map_wip_5 ...?
17:04 rubenwardy git checkout HEAD~2000
17:04 rubenwardy git pull https://github.com/celeron55/minetest.get far_map_wip_5
17:04 rubenwardy git pull https://github.com/celeron55/minetest.git far_map_wip_5
17:05 Roger9_ so far: "git clone https://github.com/minetest/minetest.git minetest-farmap; git checkout HEAD~2000; git pull https://github.com/celeron55/minetest.git far_map_wip_5;"
17:05 Roger9_ is that it or should I clone /celer on55/minetest.git?
17:05 rubenwardy cool
17:05 rubenwardy that's fine
17:06 Roger9_ should I use the backport-0.4 version of mt_game?
17:06 * twoelk is off to a big extended family party
17:07 Roger9_ I also assume I should cd minetest-farmap after the clone
17:07 twoelk left #minetest-hub
17:10 rubenwardy My personal opinion is that MTG should be split up, with the cost of small breaks, as it's currently very damaging to the project
17:10 rubenwardy having default makes it hard to make mods which support multiple games
17:11 rubenwardy makes it hard to remove what you don't want
17:11 rubenwardy and makes it hard to make new games which don't suffer from these issues - you basically need to start from scratch
17:22 Roger9_ that is the weirdest LOD I've seen
17:22 Roger9_ it also doesn't alleviate lag issues
17:27 Mr_Pardison joined #minetest-hub
17:27 Fixer Roger9_: you have not seen Farmap 1.0 somewhere in 2012
17:28 Fixer it was kinda broken triangles and shit
17:28 Fixer literally
17:29 Roger9_ maybe I should just try to make the sky below the horizon appear green or something
17:30 Roger9_ but idk how minetest renders the sky
17:30 * tenplus1 envisions Bob Ross in the background somwehere with his happy little mistakes
17:31 tumeninodes joined #minetest-hub
17:31 Roger9_ or maybe get Bob Ross to paint a skybox
17:31 Krock Roger9_, good luck building a time machine
17:32 Roger9_ I'll use benrob's tardis mod
17:32 tumeninodes didn't they bronze his fro?
17:32 Roger9_ or maybe just /time
17:34 Roger9_ do custom skyboxes use nearest neighbor interpolation?
17:35 tenplus1 hi tumeni
17:36 tumeninodes hi tenplus1, was shakin
17:36 tumeninodes *what's
17:36 tenplus1 mobs api updated, runaway mods no longer runaway from owners :D
17:36 tumeninodes oppressing mob.... excellent
17:37 Roger9_ no mobs with artificial neural networks? :c
17:38 tumeninodes wow, I am a typing behemoth today
17:43 Roger9_ odd
17:43 Roger9_ it's rendering the sides of the skybox upside down?
17:44 Roger9_ and when I upscaled it and flipped it vertically it decided to render the right way up making it upside down again
17:48 Roger9_ nvm,
17:48 Roger9_ yay
17:51 tenplus1 back laters :PPP
17:51 tenplus1 left #minetest-hub
17:56 Roger9_ Backyays
18:24 red-001 joined #minetest-hub
18:27 Roger9_ is there a built-in minetest function to convert rgb values to hex?
18:30 Roger9_ Yays
18:30 Roger9_ w
18:35 Krock string.format("%#x%#x%#x%#x", r, g, b, a)
18:35 rubenwardy ew
18:35 rubenwardy that's gross
18:35 Fixer heh
18:35 rubenwardy omg
18:35 rubenwardy I found an option on steam to hide all non-linux games
18:35 Krock or is it %#2x  ? *checks*
18:36 rubenwardy pls make afunction
18:38 Krock function abc(r, g, b, a) return string.format("%02x%02x%02x%02x", r, g, b, a) end --tested
18:38 Roger9_ string.format("%#x", hexadecimalValue):match('0x(.+)')
18:39 Krock no no. There are more flags for printf. 0 is what's desired here instead of #
18:41 Roger9_ what algorithm determines the fog color with the default skybox?
18:41 Krock possibly a hard-coded value somewhere in the source code
18:42 Roger9_ fog color in the default skybox isn't hardcoded, in fact it varies based on whether you're looking into a cave
18:42 Krock oh really?
18:44 Roger9_ yes
18:45 Roger9_ unless that's sarcasm, sometimes I can't tell
18:51 Krock no, I'm surprised as I haven't noticed that before
18:51 Krock to be fair.. I turned off the fog on my main PC
18:54 rubenwardy https://contentdb.rubenwardy.com/
18:54 rubenwardy O_o
18:54 rubenwardy o_O
18:55 Roger9_ Krock: From what I've noticed, both the fog and the sky have the same color (well, similar, as the sky isn't a uniform color but the colors that are there are very similar), and if you look down into a cave or something then the sky and fog darkens
19:04 Krock >  Please login!    > only "Sign in" available
19:04 rubenwardy lol
19:04 rubenwardy that'll be gone with the redesign
19:04 rubenwardy the front end is very WIP
19:05 rubenwardy I'm waiting for my lab partner to do that, but he's being ellusive
19:07 Roger9 Yays
19:08 * Roger9 installs some mods
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20:17 Fixer dropbox at 12 billion usd, lol
20:17 Fixer "The company even warned investors itself that it may never turn a profit"
20:19 rubenwardy dropbox needs to die
20:19 rubenwardy it's ran by a bunch of high designers
20:25 Fixer us has drugs problem
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21:39 paramat Fixer you overstate my opinion about MTG (my opinon doesn't dictate it, please stop implying that, 2 other devs can override me anytime) it may be best to keep it a little simple and impress with new games instead, however, notice we are working very hard to add new features, improve it and make it more complete. i have a big todo list and will continuously improve it
21:41 paramat MTG has been changing more rapidly than ever in the last 2 years and especially recently, you are mistaken
21:44 paramat reading logs .. ridiculous negativity and irrational complaining from you
21:46 paramat lack of dev time and slow dev is not lack of interest in a feature, you have no idea how much time it takes just to add a single small feature or improvement
21:48 paramat MTG is very much alive, MTE is quieter due to busy devs, it happens sometimes
21:49 paramat now please stop talking crap about me and remember the dev rules
21:50 paramat the myth about my overwhelming power is very irritating and insulting and shouldn't be repeated to spread it
21:55 paramat Fixer , your list of 15 points, most of those are wanted and i support, it's a case of time
21:57 paramat IhrFussel you're doing it too to some extent
21:58 rubenwardy hmmm   https://gist.github.com/rubenwardy/64deac529cef97ab5dc84bc4d1211d3e
21:59 paramat "It's kinda selfish to decide alone or as 2 people over something lots of other people brought up" no one decides alone it takes 2/3 disapprovals to refuse something, devs make the decision it's not democracy
22:00 Mr_Pardison it's a dev-ocracy.
22:00 paramat Fixer sounds like you should go and play MC when you're like this and stop complaining that MT isn't MC
22:08 paramat i have no laziness with steel, it looks like iron + carbon is not correct, note i support the most complex approach: adding an alloy furnace
22:10 paramat we can't significantly break most mods just to change MTG, that's ridiculous
22:11 Mr_Pardison alloy furnace is part of technic but it can be a big lag inducer if there are a lot of machines in one place.
22:14 paramat adding another level of metal and tools (iron) would be repeating a mistake of the past (bronze), we can just make the creation of steel a little more realistic
22:16 Shara paramat: issue is that steel should be... above many of the other things we have
22:19 paramat yes i'm fine with metals rebalance :)
22:23 Fixer was kicked by paramat: Fixer
22:24 paramat gentle moderation for today
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22:40 paramat i won't tolerate you spreading a nasty myth about me, that's the sort of thing mr. k did, you know therules, alone i am powerless. and please restrain the baseless negativity
22:41 Fixer rubenwardy: will it have something like this with public access? http://bananas.openttd.org/en
22:41 rubenwardy yes
22:50 rubenwardy Fixer, https://i.rubenwardy.com/hhOzD.png
22:54 Fixer rubenwardy: i hope there will be a bit more info about mod somewhere displayed
22:54 rubenwardy yes
22:54 rubenwardy I'm just getting the basic functionality down
22:55 rubenwardy it'll look a bit like this: https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/82Mloe6sxV59rZHjN8j84xPfyL0dQ8hKEnmYM6gcazozNOe4PU0XPwUXSmdsR0MQZA=w1920-h956
22:55 rubenwardy and double clicking will show this: https://i.rubenwardy.com/GO2xM.png
22:55 Mr_Pardison looks nice and streamlined.
22:55 rubenwardy but with a few images
22:59 Fixer rubenwardy: imo i would prefer showing size, version and last change on the main list, maybe even with interactive install(ed)/remove button on the right side near each
22:59 Fixer and mod author column as well
22:59 rubenwardy heh
22:59 rubenwardy this will support multiple screenshots
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23:12 Fixer rubenwardy: your android design list is more informative
23:13 rubenwardy jesus christ
23:13 rubenwardy <@rubenwardy> I'm just getting the basic functionality down
23:13 rubenwardy <@rubenwardy> it'll look a bit like this
23:13 rubenwardy so it will look similar to the android list
23:18 rubenwardy yay, installing works!
23:36 rubenwardy https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?p=315179#p315179

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