Time Nick Message 08:56 tenplus1 hi folks 10:47 tenplus1 Ambience Lite updated to 1.1 - Many new features and is lighter - https://github.com/tenplus1/ambience 10:49 tenplus1 o/ Krock 10:49 Krock hi tenplus1 10:49 Krock :D 10:50 tenplus1 hows things ? 10:51 Krock fine! I just rebased and tested an older PR successfully.. and then found this command: curl wttr.in/London 10:51 Krock amazing website :) 10:51 tenplus1 wha's that do ? 10:51 Krock it shows the weather 10:52 tenplus1 ohh, heh 10:52 tenplus1 ooh, fancy :))) 10:53 tenplus1 needs a rather large console to work tho :D 10:53 tenplus1 works for my wee town... w00t! 10:54 tenplus1 thansk for sharing :)))) here's something in return: https://github.com/tenplus1/ambience 10:57 tenplus1 brb 11:04 Krock nice. *clones* 11:05 tenplus1 lol 11:46 tenplus1 o/ Fixer 11:56 Wayward_One Hi all :) 11:56 tenplus1 hi wayward 12:05 Fixer hi 12:14 tenplus1 hi mister 12:14 Mr_Pardison hai 12:15 tenplus1 o/// 12:16 tenplus1 wow, quick visit :P 12:25 tenplus1 hi aerozoic 12:27 aerozoic wazup tenplus1 12:28 tenplus1 nothing much :P tinkering as always, you ? 12:39 tenplus1 hi lumberJ 12:39 lumberJ hey tenplus1 12:41 aerozoic tenplus1, just tryin to figure out how to fix all the shit that went wrong updating to andriod 8. 12:42 tenplus1 eek, what happened ? 12:42 aerozoic some apps don't work. Settings didn't save. Some settings now appear to be completely gone, etc... 12:43 xerox123 tenplus1: does Ambiance add all the background noises? 12:43 xerox123 also, there a mod that tilt's player heads when they look up/down? 12:43 tenplus1 hi xerox, yes it comes with the sound files (1.2mb only)... and if you have a sounds folder inside your minetest one you can add your own music files :) 12:43 tenplus1 yeah seen that one :) it's good but laggy 12:44 xerox123 s/there/is there/ 12:46 tenplus1 PlayerAnim mod is used on the TPS servers 12:59 Shara Hello :) 12:59 tenplus1 hi Shara 13:00 Shara Hi ten :) 13:00 tenplus1 hows things ? 13:00 Shara Not bad thanks. How's it going? 13:00 tenplus1 tried but okie :) you ? 13:00 * Shara points up :P 13:00 tenplus1 heh... 13:01 tenplus1 to me.... to you.... to me :P 13:01 Shara Should work on mods... but feeling a little mindless 13:01 tenplus1 lazy saturday 13:02 tenplus1 spend an hour tinkering, am done now... watching movie :D 13:02 Shara hehe 13:03 Shara Since most of what I'm working on can't be used on server yet, modding feels different for me lately 13:03 tenplus1 you'll see the fruits of your labor soon enough :D 13:04 Shara not sure.. making a game is slow 13:04 tenplus1 yup 13:04 Shara Sure, there are ways to cut corners, and just reuse a bunch of things, but that's nto really what I want to do 13:04 Shara not* 13:06 tenplus1 updated mobs animals and ambience lite and farming redo 13:06 tenplus1 but I'm wroried about group crafting, am getting weirdness 13:07 Shara I took a quick look at that and realised I wasn't sure why your PR used an override. Didn't have chance to look into it yet though 13:08 tenplus1 I couldnt add the {food_wheat = 1} group to wheat while it was being registered in default farming, has to be an override 13:08 Shara So it's just due to how farming registers things/.' 13:08 Shara ? 13:09 tenplus1 yeah... the register_plant function sets groups for nodes and craftitems like seed and crop internally, it's a pain in the ass 13:09 Shara Hmm, just that this might be needed for other things... and then they'd all need overrides, so it would probably be better to change that? 13:10 tenplus1 personally I'd register the wheat/cotton crop seperately from the growing stages and seed 13:10 tenplus1 but who knows how many other mods use it already as-is ?!?! 13:11 Shara Like I said, haven't looked at it, but surely it could be done in a way that if you don't pass in specific groups, then nothing changes 13:11 tenplus1 the add_plant function does include a group definition, but isnt used 13:12 tenplus1 and even if it were, what would use it ? crop, seed, food item ?!?! 13:12 Shara It just seems weird to me that you create a situation where the mod has to override it's own items 13:12 tenplus1 easier to register it all seperately like I do in redo 13:14 Shara I've never looked at farming too closley 13:14 Shara I can't even easily update to your redo 13:15 tenplus1 the register function tries to handle too much I feel 13:15 tenplus1 but redo is a drop in replacement for it and it all works 13:15 Shara So everything about farming became just too annoying to look at unless it starts giving me errors :P 13:15 Shara your rdo doesn't have all the nodes mine has, so I mostly use it, but have to manually adjust any time I update 13:16 tenplus1 the sand_soil and wet_sand_soil are the only things it loses, but those have aliases set 13:16 Shara It was the scarecrows too 13:16 tenplus1 you talking farming plus ??? 13:16 Shara I don't know which way round it was to be honest, but I switched from oen to the other at some point 13:17 Shara but to not lose things, had to make adjustments 13:17 tenplus1 ah, thought you were talking about default farming :) 13:17 tenplus1 redo has decent compatibility with plus, it aliases many things as replacements and scarecrows end up being jack'o'lanterns 13:17 Shara It's just why all farming mods annoy me now :) 13:17 Shara Yea, that's the issue.. I don't want the as jack o lanterns, I want them as scarecrows 13:18 tenplus1 I've seen players build better scarecrows with default nodes anyhoo :D 13:18 Shara Sorry, but I don't care. :P 13:18 Shara I want them 13:18 tenplus1 will look into it... 13:18 Shara I'm not messing up players builds, because they have already used them now 13:19 Shara I could probably stick the scarecrow in another mod and try and work something out... but then it gets messy 13:20 tenplus1 will add it with same textures/model and alias set 13:20 tenplus1 just need to check license 13:21 Shara I'm just hoping to get to the point where I can stop adjusting so many mods 13:21 Shara It was needed in the past, but I learned enough now that I hope it's not so needed 13:21 Shara ANd then updating can be easier :) 13:22 tenplus1 heh 13:22 tenplus1 checking farming_plus now 13:22 Shara :) 13:24 tenplus1 hi fussel 13:24 IhrFussel tenplus1, if a mod that runs per globalstep is "laggy" then it mostly means other mods lag the server a lot... playeranim takes less than 1 ms to execute but if other mods cause longer lags of course the animations will get stuck and look jaggy 13:26 IhrFussel Or choppy* 13:26 tenplus1 30 players using globalstep and checking/moving player bones in the model is laggy 13:26 tenplus1 even singleplayer 13:31 IhrFussel I don't find it that laggy on my server...mostly max_lag is 0.3 ... of course you will not get fluid movement cause that's impossible 13:33 tenplus1 it does add some well needed character to the player model :) moving heads is good 13:36 IhrFussel The core devs don't seem to be interested in head movement however 13:40 Shara Interested and prioritising it over other things... not the same :P 13:41 tenplus1 it's the little features that make a game 13:41 Shara Yes, but lots of things are more important than a moving head 13:41 tenplus1 true 13:42 IhrFussel Shara, the general opinion on most things is "use mods" 13:43 Shara Not seeing how that is relevant to what I said 13:43 Shara unless someone makes a decent PR to add it properly, you'll never actually know who may really be interested in supporting it 13:43 IhrFussel "use mods" to me means "we will not add that to our engine" 13:44 Shara quite often means they don't have time or consider it high enough priority to make it thesmelves 13:44 Shara not that they would not consider it if someone is going to help out 13:44 Fixer wonder how minecraft is doing head movement 13:46 Shara I mean, it's certainly something I'd support, for whatever that's worth, but I have zero intrest in trying to improve on the current mod myself (because time) 13:46 IhrFussel Instead of implementing small features players really need (head movement, wield view, knockback) people rather add new mapgens 13:46 Shara headmovement is a need? 13:47 IhrFussel I would consider it a basic feature in a sandbox game 13:47 Shara Sorry, but that's a joke 13:47 Shara I would liek to see it done well, but it's not a need 13:47 Fixer new mapgens are nice. we have good selection already, gameplay aspect is overloocked sadly 13:48 Fixer mtg is insanely conservative 13:48 IhrFussel We will both have different opinions on what needs to be included in "basic features" obviously but what I don't understand is that people rather work on BIG things 13:48 IhrFussel It makes no sense 13:48 Shara what people seem to forget is that no one is going to rush to work on a thing they don't personally care about. 13:48 Fixer if you are patient enough to wait 50 years to habebasic features in :) 13:49 Shara Now if those who cared enough tried helping... 13:49 IhrFussel You should rather work on smaller things cause you can code more of those 13:49 Fixer have basic* 13:49 Shara Fussel, so you get to dictate what I should work on for MTG then? 13:49 Fixer opposing force is stronger 13:50 IhrFussel You already work on smaller things right now 13:50 Shara More than one time, I wanted a thing the devs didn't really care to work on themselves. Eventually made PRs myself... they got accepted 13:50 Shara I really suggest you try the same 13:51 Fixer Shara: no, it seems everyone accepted that MTG is fate is bare bone not really a game sandbox with very minimal features, this leaves very little room to expansion, what we need is new game alongside it 13:51 Fixer mtg fate* 13:51 Shara Fixer, I'm working on one of those too 13:51 IhrFussel I have no time for c++ I work fulltime on my server and add new things rapidly 13:52 Shara But I honestly think the biggest problem with MTG is everyone's combined attitude toward it 13:52 Fixer "What happens when an unstoppable force meets an immovable object?" - this is MTG development in a nutshell :D 13:53 IhrFussel I'm not talking about MTG though.... MTG is just a mod collection pretty much... what I want is more basic features in-engine and not in mods 13:53 Shara If it is only capable of being minimal base and nothing more, I guess I should go remove fireflies now then 13:53 Fixer Shara: minetest and minetest game development is very opposing in nature 13:54 Shara Fussel, sure, so does everyone, but you fun thing is you say "I have no time" then expect others to 13:54 Shara Fixer: I wonder why... maybe because people keep insisting everything is bad, then it is? 13:54 Fixer only few will get in, because meh, MTG is supposed to be simple blah blah, full stop 13:54 Shara Waste all energy moanign instead of doing. 13:54 Fixer no 13:54 Shara moaning* 13:54 Fixer nothing is accepted 13:54 Fixer much 13:54 IhrFussel Cause there are quite a few people working on c++ code... my issue is them working on things (almost) nobody asked for 13:55 Fixer people are working on engine, but only 1 is working on game itself, very very limited game 13:55 Shara Uhh 13:55 Fixer simplified a bit 13:55 Shara Okay, I'll leave MTG then since apparently I'm not working on it? 13:56 Fixer Shara: what you need is to argue with paramat about MTG future 13:56 Fixer people don't have for that 13:56 Fixer in his opinion - it was intended as simple game, mod base, etc, that leaves very little room to improvement/additions etc 13:56 Shara I look at MTG things pretty much every day. But apaprently only paramat works on it 13:57 Fixer mostly he is 13:57 Fixer everyone lost interest in MTG long ago, because of big conservatism and opposition to make it full game, instead of small sandbox 13:57 Shara I guess I don't exist and nothign I do exists then 13:58 Fixer this is simplified look 13:58 Shara It's an incorrect one 13:58 Shara Because you made up your mind and that's the end to it for you 13:59 Fixer say paramat wants minetest game to be like a wooden box, so it is wooden box, you can't add hands to it or make car of it :D 13:59 Wayward_One People spend time on what they are able to do and interests them. You can't really expect people to devote their free time to something they don't enjoy 13:59 Shara I disagree with your interpretations in full 14:00 Shara Can paramat be overly conservative sometimes? Sure. But I've made him change his mind on more than one thing (hint: I didn't do it by moaning or insulting) 14:00 Fixer i can already judge extreme conservatism after 7 years of watching MTG development 14:01 Shara 7 years... a lot changes, including the people involved, in that time 14:01 IhrFussel Wayward_One, and THAT is one huge disadvantage of OSS ... if people work at a company they HAVE TO do what the boss says else they are fired... and that is also why companies can complete their programs so fast 14:01 Shara Fussel, you are stating the obvious :) 14:02 IhrFussel I know but I had to repeat it again ... IMO it's worthless if someone works on something I don't need 14:02 Shara Decide to run servers on an open source game.. then decide the problem is that it's open source and the devs are volunteers? :) 14:03 Shara Lol, that's really selfish of you. 14:03 Shara Just because you don't need or want a thing, doesn't mean no one does 14:03 Fixer how much MTG changed in 7 years? more good blocks added, carts, keys, kindamap, binoculars, slippery, nicer biomes, steel and flint, fireflies 14:03 IhrFussel That's not selfish, it's normal ... it wouldn't give me anything 14:03 Fixer and jump trick was disabled by default 14:03 Fixer but that is not part of the game 14:03 Fixer also, few ores added 14:03 Shara Yes, it's selfish, because it's you only caring about you and not about what other users care about 14:04 Fixer but gameplay itself is not changed 14:04 IhrFussel Okay let me rephrase: If someone works on something the community clearly doesn't need (as much as other things) then it will not make them happy 14:04 Shara See, that's better. 14:04 Fixer there is no 3d mods, no armour, tools still unbalanced, no sprinting debate, no hangar debate, no mobs, no automation 14:04 Fixer 3d models* 14:05 Shara Well Fixer, all i can say is that as someone trying to us ethe tiny bit of spare time I get to make any difference at all, the fact that you judge me to not even exist as far as MTG goes, is hugely demotivating. 14:05 Fixer it is not about you, you came relatively recently 14:06 Shara No, it's not about me, but how can anyone feel happy or good contributing when you and others are thorwing round endless negativity? 14:06 tenplus1 Farming Redo updated, scarecrow bottom added 14:06 Shara You want change and help make an environment where it's less likely to happen 14:06 Fixer tenplus1: nice 14:07 Fixer Shara: you can't change much since paramat is opposed, because game is meant to be simple, end of story 14:07 tenplus1 5x sticks in cross shape gives you wooden base, compatible with farming_plus' scarecrow bottom also 14:07 Shara Just nothign I see lately matches anything you say 14:07 Shara nothing* 14:11 tenplus1 ?? 14:12 Shara Fixer's massive negativity and ideas nothing can change 14:13 IhrFussel MTG gets 1/10th as many PRs as MTE ... I bet that's largely cause barely anyone knows what paramat and others even want in MTG 14:13 Shara Fussel, I'm the first to admit that's the hardest part 14:13 Fixer Shara: i only hope paramat will not be opposed to your changes, that will be fine 14:13 Shara But the negativity seems likely to prevent people from even trying 14:14 Fixer it is not just negativity, it is mostly dead, if you check engine activity and game activity, it is very sad :( 14:14 Shara Fixer, he's the one who asked to add fireflies.. and has also asked that I add butterflies. I know these are very small things and don't magically fix the game, but it's showing new content can happen, even directly at his request 14:15 Shara And yes, it's sad... but I really think the kinds of comments you make put people off who might otherwise be interested 14:15 * tenplus1 is so depressed now, eating donuts to compensate :P 14:15 Fixer you can't go anywhere without paramat approval in MTG 14:16 Fixer pretty much, he has a veto power de facto 14:16 Shara What I want to see is at least one more (maybe more..) alternative official games, so people can then choose depending on what they want. 14:16 Shara Fixer: No, he doesn't :) 14:16 Wayward_One Lol ten :P 14:16 Shara tenplus1: send me one please?? 14:16 IhrFussel Maybe you should offer some kind of "service" where people can state their ideas and you can then discuss them ... I mean something outside github something simpler..like an email 14:16 * tenplus1 has chocolate and raspberry :))))))) *shares* 14:16 Shara Bring them up here? 14:17 Shara Sadly a lot of what peopel bring up does have problems, but there's also things that I am pretty sure could get support 14:17 Shara wield view for example.. this should be included 14:17 IhrFussel Or you should write down somewhere (maybe forum?) what kind of additions you will definitely not accept...like vehicles 14:19 IhrFussel Or make criterias for additions...there are multiple ways to take the "fear" of people 14:19 Shara I even wrote a list before, but it didn't seem to help 14:20 Shara Sadly wieldview needs model work, and that's not something I can help with 14:22 tenplus1 doesnt stu already have a wield3d mod that shows what you are holding without new player model ? 14:22 Fixer tenplus1: he does, and there is one more mod for that 14:23 Shara https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/1447 14:23 Fixer Shara: i only hope you will succeed in adding something useful and needed into MTG 14:23 tenplus1 https://github.com/stujones11/wield3d 14:23 Shara Well, maybe people should make what they find needed clear as well. 14:24 Fixer wield3d and wieldview are available for ages, yet this basic stuff was not merged in, thankfully, carts were merged 14:24 IhrFussel Well I'd say fireflies are part of "gameplay aspect" so Shara helped the community in a way 14:24 Fixer yes, they are, but thats only first small step 14:25 IhrFussel Yeah but not sure how "big" a feature can be in MTG 14:25 Shara Current way I'm working, is main focus on my own game, but then if something worked on there seems important for MTG as well, I'm hoping it can be considered for both. 14:25 IhrFussel paramat wants everything to be tiny and lightweight, no room for something more special 14:25 tenplus1 wb twoelk 14:25 Shara I won't do that with everything of course, since some things simply won't work in MTG, and I also want my own game to stay unique 14:25 Fixer IhrFussel: be lucky, we have carts in MTG, thats like building of nuclear reactor at home kinda hard 14:26 twoelk o/ 14:26 IhrFussel Carts that don't even work correctly yeah 14:26 Fixer \o 14:26 Fixer IhrFussel: file a bug (it is important), I checked it last time in singleplayer, it was fine 14:26 Shara But Fixer, what other vital things are missing (which don't need models or engine changes)? 14:26 IhrFussel At least on slopes they trap me in an endless loop 14:27 IhrFussel sometimes* 14:27 Fixer Shara: main part is here https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/515 14:27 Shara I'd rather real thoughts for now than years old discussion to struggle through 14:28 Fixer Shara: problem is huge, it is debate on debate, i will start line by line 14:28 Shara And you might already know I have been pushing hard for underground content 14:28 Fixer 1) 3d models - already discussed 14:29 Fixer 2) unbalanced tools, bronze is out of place, too many tools 14:29 Fixer 3) hangar/sprinting debate 14:29 Fixer 4) keeping stuff in invetory slot debate 14:29 Fixer 5) mob debate 14:29 Fixer 6) ambience debate (rare weather) 14:29 Fixer 7) automation debate 14:30 Fixer 8) autopickup or like in minecraft debate 14:30 tenplus1 more tree schematics would be a good idea 14:30 Fixer 9) more tree schematics 14:30 Fixer advocated by me btw 14:30 tenplus1 make the forest areas and jungles more random looking instead of all at similar levels 14:30 Fixer 10) armour debate 14:30 Fixer 11) baked clay 14:30 Fixer 12) space, other realms debate 14:30 tenplus1 use bakedclay mod, it's there if ya need it :P 14:31 Fixer 13) breaking chests debate 14:31 tenplus1 13 ????? huh 14:31 Shara Well there's PR hanging around for start of ambient sound, trees are being worked on, sprint needs some monoids feature and that's now being considered. Most you bring up needs models or engine change. 14:31 Fixer right now you can't break up chest and pick up items like in minecraft, it goes in different way 14:31 Fixer mc way is much easier 14:31 tenplus1 wb mister 14:31 Mr_Pardison Tanks. 14:31 tenplus1 break chest and it drops all items inside ? 14:31 Fixer 14) no knockback 14:32 Shara Personally I'd hate chests like that 14:32 Shara But either way, this already sounds like your personal wishlist instead of actual vital things 14:32 Fixer 15) no throwing api 14:32 Fixer you can go different way 14:32 Fixer look what servers add 14:32 tenplus1 we need the player damage system to give reasons for damage... 14:32 tenplus1 so mods can respond 14:33 Fixer you will notice right away 3d models/sprinting/hangar/armour/foods/mobs 14:33 twoelk been told everything is prepared for more interesting underground - just needs content 14:33 Mr_Pardison tenplus1: like when a player kills another one? 14:33 IhrFussel Work on MTG will never proceed if almost every thing someone comes up with and that lots of people actually want gets denied just because 1 or 2 MTG devs disagree with it 14:33 tenplus1 if killed by player, return playername in hp_change... same with nodes that do damage or custom damage 14:33 tenplus1 we need this 14:34 Shara Ten, yes, that's needed, but surely that's an engien thing? 14:34 IhrFussel It's kinda selfish to decide alone or as 2 people over something lots of other people brought up 14:34 Fixer do not forget to use https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/515 as a discussion platform for MTG features 14:34 tenplus1 also https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4503 oldie but a goodie 14:34 Mr_Pardison IF we could do that, then someone could make a bounty hunting mod. 14:34 tenplus1 we could finally have proper death messages and such 14:34 Fixer yes, map layering, aka realms 14:34 Fixer in a way 14:34 Shara Mr P, i mentioned that just yesterday... 14:35 tenplus1 we have 60,000 nodes going top to bottom, we NEED layering to help with realms 14:35 Fixer yes 14:35 Fixer and 30000 is empty space 14:35 Mr_Pardison https://github.com/4Evergreen4/death_messages 14:35 Shara Mr P, yea, there's lot sof ways to try and make it work right, but it's all pretty messy work arounds 14:35 tenplus1 tried that mod, is ok but gets it wrong at times 14:35 Mr_Pardison yeah. 14:36 Fixer just my opinion, I always waited MTG to became something like late minecraft beta, with then inclusion of really different games alongside 14:36 Shara Fixer: the moment you start talking about MC I simply can't help you. No frame of reference, because I've never played it 14:36 Fixer also sad, to see no inclusion of Wuzzy Tutorial game, for usual reasons 14:37 Shara I also dislike the idea of trying to copy MC. I'd just get MC if that was what I wanted 14:37 Fixer remove , 14:37 IhrFussel For a death message mod to work right you'd need to count nodes of a pretty high radius and then compare 14:37 Mr_Pardison we need some way to get the game to register a PvP attack. Anyone have any ideas, just toss them out and let's see if they would work. 14:37 Fixer Shara: MTG coppies early MC anyway 14:37 Shara Fixer, maybe it does, but I certainly don't. 14:37 Fixer Shara: MC beta = MTG + armour + mobs + simple automation 14:37 Shara I'd rather judge things based on their own merrit, regardless of whether another game has or has not used them 14:38 IhrFussel Or just get the 1st,2nd,3rd,4th etc nodes under/above you 14:38 Fixer MC beta is extremally simple yet ideal as voxel game of choice 14:38 twoelk erm - I think mt could well copy the one or other good stuff of other gamjes 14:38 twoelk -j 14:39 IhrFussel Don't forget that the death callback can be triggered lots of times while someone is dead...for example the stamina mod (AFAIK) causes the death callback to be called every few secs 14:39 Shara twoelk: sure, and I don't mind that, but people seem to talk like they want to copy for the sake of copying, not necessarily because it's a good or the right thing to do 14:39 Fixer MC beta = MTG + bow + armour + mobs (and their farming via water push) + simple automation (switch, plates, button, redstone) 14:39 tenplus1 mc source is available for anyone who wants to take the time to port c++ to lua and copy it exactly :P 14:40 Fixer it was considered more or less complete game in 2011, and I agree with that 14:40 IhrFussel * could be fixed in 0.5.0 14:40 Shara I don't think another game having something is a reason not to use it, but I also don't want to include things just because anotehr game has them 14:40 Fixer tenplus1: that is not legal, though 14:40 tenplus1 eheheheh 14:40 Fixer Shara: those things make game fun, MTG - does not make it fun 14:40 Roger9_ What is backport-0.4? Is it a version of MT 0.4 with the ability to connect to 0.5 servers? 14:40 Fixer the reason why nobody uses vanilla MTG on servers :D 14:41 twoelk seeing how much time and effort players in other games invest in their ingame appearence, mt could win with some better skin/clothes/armor concept 14:41 Shara Roger9_: it's like stable, but with bugfixes 14:41 Roger9_ Shara: Ah. 14:41 * Roger9_ yays 14:41 Shara Fixer: personally I don't find adding armour or whatever is automatically fun 14:42 Roger9_ How would I git clone the backport-0.4 branch? not used to doing that kind of thing 14:42 Fixer Shara: it broads your vistas 14:42 Roger9_ nvm, found it 14:42 Shara Anyway, MT still doesn['t have a good armour mod in my opinion 14:43 tenplus1 am still using the 0.4 branch of 3d armor 14:43 Mr_Pardison g2g 14:43 tenplus1 just updated it to use playerplus :P 14:43 Fixer minetest damage handling is odd to me 14:43 Shara I find 3d armor really poor 14:43 Fixer in those armour mods 14:43 Fixer i can stand in diamond armour and receive no damage from mobs, something is wrong here 14:43 Shara the textures are bad, the way the mod is structured (when I last checked, no clue about now) was bad, the damage balance is terrible 14:44 tenplus1 armor levels needs to be tweaked 14:44 tenplus1 hi CWz 14:44 Shara z fighting when you try make your own textures (again, unless something last changed since...) 14:45 Shara I don't understand why the modpack has three different inventory mods... I don't want to have mods running on my server that I have zero use for even if they do nothing... 14:46 tenplus1 player:set_hp(new_hp, reason_for_change) 14:47 twoelk maybe the hazmat suit should be in a place more apart 14:47 Fixer heh https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/graphs/contributors 14:48 Fixer paramat - 314 commits, sofar - 122 (wants mtg die), celeron55 - 70 (inactive), PilzAdam - 66 (inactive), tenplus1 - 46 (active), BlockMen (inactive) - 41, SmallJoker (active) - 24, ... 14:49 tenplus1 sofar wants mtg to die ? wut ? 14:49 Shara More realistic current view would be https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/graphs/contributors?from=2017-03-25&to=2018-03-24&type=c 14:49 twoelk he said so 14:50 twoelk but will still add fixes :-D 14:50 tenplus1 erk 14:51 twoelk I think something good might be to clean mtg more up and modularize it more 14:51 Shara twoelk: yes, wuold be good 14:51 tenplus1 that would make things easy to work with 14:52 twoelk applying a clear system to all node names might be a start 14:52 tenplus1 example plz 14:52 Shara Can't change node names without making a huge mess 14:53 xerox123 are 'clusters' a thing in minetest? or are they just a different word for blocks? 14:53 tenplus1 would be great if we had a BASE library of items to use within games and mods though 14:53 tenplus1 pain in the ass trying to craft something that needs milk when no mobs are isntalled for eg. 14:53 Fixer i've suggested modularisation long ago 14:56 Shara I like having things split so it's easy to remove individual bits you might not want 14:56 twoelk Shara: make the mess as early as possible to get on with it 14:56 Shara Or to replace them with something else 14:56 Shara twoelk: bit late now. MTG isn't exactly a new project 14:57 twoelk guess that's why sofar wants to kill it - too old to fix :-P 14:57 Shara Change all the nodenames and either you break every existing world using MTG on next udpate, or you have to add a load of aliases... so you still have mess 14:57 Shara You can however change descriptions... which is what the player actually sees 14:58 tenplus1 since 0.5 breaks quite a few things it's prolly ok to start changing what you can get away with 14:59 Shara 0.5 isn't meant to break maps though 15:00 tenplus1 true 15:03 Fixer Shara: in that timeframe, paramat alone accounts for 45% of code additions, paramat + you = 60%, paramat + you + tumeni = 70%... 15:04 Fixer if you look into code additions - it mostly paramat active, everyone else adds rarely, and you added recently 15:07 Shara See why I would like more people to open PRs for some of these things then? 15:10 Fixer hah, good luck with that 15:10 Fixer everyone knows it is hard to convince opposing force :) 15:10 Shara then maybe convince me of ideas instead, so I can worry about that part :) 15:11 Fixer we listed some already, have fun :D 15:11 Shara You just gave your personal wish list 15:11 Shara And paid no attention to criteria I set 15:11 Fixer https://www.meme-arsenal.com/memes/fd8054c14bfacfaa9923003f79221a96.jpg 15:12 Shara some solid suggestions of things I can work on, and I'd probably work on them 15:12 Fixer Shara: armour and 3d models 15:13 Shara See, what part of me saying I can't work on models did you not get? 15:13 Fixer let me look into github 15:14 Shara Things I'd love to see added are wield view and sprint. And I'd love better tool balance, but it's difficult to find a good way to do that 15:14 Fixer Shara: ok, here is lazy stuff for you: rebalance the tools (evil laugh) 15:15 Shara Hehe 15:15 Shara I would like to 15:15 Amaz Getting tools balanced well is hard. 15:15 Shara Very hard. 15:15 tenplus1 o/ amaz 15:15 Shara It's much easy when starting from scratch and you can plan the system 15:15 Amaz Yeah 15:15 Shara easier* 15:16 Amaz Hi ten :) 15:16 Shara But MTG only has three levels of tool as well from what I recall, which doesn't really give many possibilities 15:16 Fixer Shara: that's the problem with MTG, you can't add, you can't remove because reasons 15:16 Amaz Especially when you can give all the nodes custom groups, to allow more fine tuning. 15:17 Shara Well the only reason not to add more tools/ores is because there's already more than we have good use for 15:17 Fixer i would rather throw out half the tools and simplified them, but that will "break the mods" 15:17 Fixer and that tin debacle 15:17 Fixer MTG is silly :) 15:17 Shara I still don't get why anyone thought it was good to add more metals 15:18 Fixer if someone wants space and rocketry here - it makes sense in a future 15:18 Fixer as of now most of them are decorative 15:18 tenplus1 tool progression is important... it SHOULD be flint -> stone -> iron -> bronze -> steel -> mese -> diamond 15:18 Fixer tenplus1: too much steps :D 15:18 Shara I still find diamond tools silly :) 15:18 Fixer tenplus1: -> nuclear 15:18 Fixer tenplus1: -> fission nuclear -> fusion nuclear actually -> singlularity in MTG 15:19 tenplus1 we'll leave those last one's for the mods :D 15:19 Shara Fixer, fix the iron/steel mess? :) 15:19 Fixer Shara: everything is mess, not just this :( 15:19 Fixer i can feel sofar breath on this 15:19 Shara Yea, but you need to start somewhere 15:19 Fixer you can't run car with square wheels 15:20 Shara Good thing MTG doesn't have cars then 15:20 Fixer Shara: paramat is lazy, he does not want to deal with that steel too deep 15:20 Shara I don't think you can call person doing most of work lazy 15:20 Fixer Shara: in regard to steel problem, i mean 15:21 Shara Now I'd suggest a good solution tot his, but I am struggling to find one 15:21 tenplus1 https://minecraft.gamepedia.com/Armor (scroll down to defense points) 15:21 Fixer Shara: you can't, because it breaks everything unfortunately 15:21 Shara So how to resolve it? 15:21 Fixer Shara: break things :D 15:22 Shara But in which way? 15:22 Fixer alias or smth 15:22 Shara So you want to change all steel things to iron? 15:22 Fixer let me open minetest 15:22 Fixer wait, you want to tackle steel itself? okay 15:22 Shara well, any of this stuff 15:22 Fixer do you want it realistic? 15:22 Shara I'm open to any solution 15:23 Fixer making steel takes several stages unfortunately 15:23 Fixer you need to introduce charcoal into the game, but who wants it? 15:23 Shara Is there any way to simplify it that would be a good balance? 15:23 tenplus1 mixing iron and carbon = steel (easy recipe) 15:23 Fixer not really 15:24 Fixer you actually need to reduce amount of carbon in iron 15:24 Shara I suspect your average child playing the game doesn't care much about realism 15:24 tenplus1 https://ftb.gamepedia.com/Steel 15:24 Fixer i have no idea how you can simplify it without breaking everything 15:24 Shara But sticking iron in a furnace then getting steel ingot makes no sense, even to someone who doesn't understand metalwork 15:25 Shara Steel ingots making iron bars.. again, no sense 15:25 Fixer Shara: one way is just rename everything into wrought iron 15:25 tenplus1 isnt that getting changed, I saw a pull earlier 15:25 Fixer Shara: that is better way 15:25 Fixer simpler way 15:26 Fixer Shara: old way of smelting is charcoal + iron = blob of molten iron that you work with hammer into wrought iron (ingots are not possible with this it seems) 15:27 Fixer ingot can be renamed into iron bars 15:27 Shara tenplus1: depends on results of the debate :) 15:27 Shara Fixer: so liek I said to begin, change steel to iron, but also break consistency of how each metal works, and also add hammer? 15:27 tenplus1 hi loka 15:27 Fixer Shara: hammer part is annoying 15:27 Fixer and charcoal 15:28 Fixer coal is not used in even old metal smelting it seems 15:28 Shara (If anyone wants voice - PM an op please) 15:30 twoelk coal was not used much at the beginning of metal age because it wasn't widely used for anything 15:30 twoelk wood and charcoal was what was there in the beginning 15:31 Shara Current furnace will use any fuel to convert any item which can be cooked 15:31 Shara so even if you add charcoal, it's meaningless unless you somehow enforce which fuel is used 15:32 Shara Or do you then want to remove the registrations for everything else that is currently a fuel? 15:32 Shara (if you enforce use of one fuel, they are useless anyway) 15:32 tenplus1 we could add levels to the cooking crafts... level 1 uses normal furnace, level 2 needs a blast furnace for instance 15:32 tenplus1 blast furnaces go through fuel quicker 15:32 twoelk but aside from that I'm slowly asuming a position to not simplify but change the very way tools are weighted ingame 15:32 Shara tools and materials are two different (closely related) issues 15:34 Shara But the ingots issue is bigger than iron to steel 15:34 Shara Because if you want realism, I'm pretty sure burning grass won't allow you to making other ingots 15:34 Shara make* 15:35 twoelk except for some magic-fictional material I think steel should be the best basic toll/weapon/armour material - that could be enhanced by something else for specific purposes though 15:35 Fixer twoelk: charcoal gives higher temperature 15:35 twoelk eh, oil even more but doesn't work that way 15:36 Amaz If you want realism, then you probably shouldn't be looking for it in a world made of cubes, where you can carry 3168 cubic meters of stone :P 15:36 Shara ^ 15:36 Shara Exactly 15:36 twoelk like adding diamonds makes drill better but is useless for sword 15:36 Krock "magic-fictional material" *thinks of MESE* 15:36 Fixer twoelk: look how this art is done today, they still use charcoal 15:36 Shara SO this all just boils down to a question of... how much does realistic metalworking actually matter? 15:36 Fixer yeah, at this point MTG is silly 15:37 Shara I mean, iron ore to steel ingot to iron bar is ... beyond silly either way, but changing description is simple. 15:37 twoelk metalworking is one place I would break free from mc and other games 15:39 Shara Oddly, metalworking caused huge debates and disatisfaction in the last game I worked on... it seems to be one of those things where people have very different expectations 15:39 twoelk interesting 15:39 Amaz There's certainly no need to keep things as they are, if someone wants to, and more importantly has the time and energy to change it, but the most important aspect isn't realism, but what makes for a good game, and adds playability/interest to the game. 15:39 tenplus1 for soft metals like iron, gold, copper a normal furnace is good 15:39 Shara Yup, so my question is how it should work 15:40 tenplus1 but making blast bricks to craft a blast furnace for the harder metals like steel etc would be a good progression 15:40 Shara Because I mostly seem moans and/or complaints but no suggestions of actual working systems to use instead 15:41 twoelk well you go to the doctor to tell him it hurts and expect him to tell you why 15:41 Shara I'll also take suggestions for the game I'm working on as well, since I don't want it to have these issues 15:41 * Shara hands everyone their own stethoscopes 15:41 Fixer Amaz: yeah 15:41 Shara You are all the doctors now 15:42 Shara And MTG is hereby your patient 15:42 Fixer also, bronze pickaxe? really? 15:43 twoelk yep- it happened long ago in real life 15:43 Shara bronze tools make sense if included in logical progression 15:43 tenplus1 yup 15:44 Shara stone to bronze to iron 15:44 twoelk broze picks where better than those of antler 15:44 Fixer "Though bronze is generally harder than wrought iron" 15:44 tenplus1 blast brick = 2x iron ingots + 2x stone 15:44 twoelk stone picks are surprisingly effective 15:44 Fixer but we have steel tools :D 15:44 tenplus1 9x blast bricks = blast furnace --- progression to level 2 smelting 15:45 Shara In HW, tool progression planned so far puts steel as one of highest tiers 15:45 twoelk yeah, early iron tools where pretty bad - but plenty - tin was rare 15:45 Fixer "In many parts of the world, large hoards of bronze artifacts are found, suggesting that bronze also represented a store of value and an indicator of social status. In Europe, large hoards of bronze tools, typically socketed axes (illustrated above), are found, which mostly show no signs of wear." 15:45 Fixer eh 15:46 Fixer tenplus1: problem is then we need to convince paramat about this, actually about everything 15:46 Fixer tenplus1: introducing second furnace will be hard to sell 15:47 tenplus1 true, talking about it is one thing, making the code and textures and presenting the pull is another 15:47 Shara my problem is that I can't see any real way to do it without losing lots of items, or adding lots... 15:48 Shara doesn't mean something shouldn't change, but would probably need new uses for metals first 15:48 Amaz In the system I'm in the very early stages of planning, different materials are good for different things. e.g. Bronze is good for weapons, not so good for mining, mithril is good for armour, but not too much else, steel is good for mining, and different ways of making it make it suited for different purporses. (e.g. one way of making it is good for axes, but it needs to be made in another way for picka 15:48 Amaz xes). 15:48 tenplus1 not at all, if anything we'll be adding iron ore/ingot/block/tools and a new furnace... some change of recipes and adding level 1 or 2 to cooking requirements shouldnt be too bad 15:49 Amaz Not overly realistic, but it should be interesting (with a lot more work *sigh*) 15:49 tenplus1 the steel items and ingot we already have... 15:49 Shara Ten, what I see is iron getting added in addition to steel, current steel tools becoming iron ones, then steel tools being some higher rank 15:50 Shara But can't see how to justify new metal either 15:51 Fixer lol 15:51 Fixer eh 15:53 twoelk I think convincing paramat or any other dev wouldn't be too hard if it is a working solution and it is not expected for them to fix all issues 15:55 Fixer "The Chinese of the Warring States period (403–221 BC) had quench-hardened steel,[22] while Chinese of the Han dynasty (202 BC – 220 AD) created steel by melting together wrought iron with cast iron, gaining an ultimate product of a carbon-intermediate steel by the 1st century AD" 15:55 tenplus1 ooh 15:56 Fixer still not good 15:56 Fixer "Since the 17th century, the first step in European steel production has been the smelting of iron ore into pig iron in a blast furnace. Originally employing charcoal, modern methods use coke, which has proven more economical" 15:56 Fixer "pig iron was refined (fined) in a finery forge to produce bar iron, which was then used in steel-making." 15:57 Shara twoelk: this is my thought as well. 15:57 Fixer "The raw material for this process were bars of iron" 15:57 tenplus1 at present I'm more concerned with this damned craft recipe glitch when using groups 15:58 Fixer hm 15:58 tenplus1 recipe works perfectly fine in singleplayer, but on server it's botched and I dunno why... cant get to the bottom of it 16:00 twoelk wasn't ther a recipe conflict checker on the forum somewhere? 16:01 tenplus1 that's the thing, the recipe in question is fine... been checked and works ok, just NOT on xanadu 16:01 twoelk btw have started a singleplayer world with new farming_redo version - not quite convinced yet 16:01 Fixer Shara: easiest way is to rename everything into wrought iron and be done with it, OCD will be lowered 16:02 tenplus1 yeah, have mod add steel :P ehehehe 16:02 tenplus1 twoelk: any issues ? 16:02 twoelk xanadu is evolving a mind of it's own 16:02 Fixer machine learning 16:02 twoelk nah just gameplaywise 16:03 twoelk will xanadu become gaia or skynet or ... 16:03 tenplus1 lol, hopefully not... dont want it taking over anything if I can help it :D 16:04 tenplus1 any gameplay ya dont like lemmie know, can always tweak 16:05 Shara I'd be fine just renaming things to iron 16:05 twoelk you are missing the point it allready has taken over your life and that of many a player 16:05 Shara tenplus1: new farming stuff on Xanadu now? 16:05 Shara I want to check it if so 16:06 twoelk not just new stuff but also new procedures 16:06 tenplus1 yeh 16:06 tenplus1 just updated 16:06 Fixer Shara: probably, yes 16:06 * Shara plays the "can I remember my password?" game 16:06 Fixer write down your passwords 16:07 * Fixer REMOVES above sentence 16:07 Fixer i still have not managed to join that train server 16:07 Shara heh 16:08 Fixer linuxworks 6/15 - too many players to join. ????????????? 16:09 Shara SOmehow, it seems like deleting my inventory is always the first thing I do when joining Xanadu... 16:09 Shara Where in the world do I pick up all this junk from? :D 16:09 Fixer Shara: autopick up vs manual pick up debate! 16:09 tenplus1 lol 16:10 Fixer Shara: when you blow up some TNT, you end up with tons of drops you have to pickup manually right now 16:10 Fixer thats reality we have 16:11 Fixer other way is to autopickup them, that rises more issues down the road though 16:11 * twoelk muses wether mtg should have inventory progression 16:11 Fixer this is sad 16:11 Fixer i now understand more why sofar wants it from scratch 16:13 Fixer to really rethink it slowly 16:21 tenplus1 hi cx384 16:21 cx384 hello 16:26 rubenwardy IhrFussel: the aim of Minetest is to make a game engine which offers lots of customisability 16:26 rubenwardy the easiest way to do this is to offload functionality from the engine to builtin and mods 16:26 rubenwardy which is why you see that a lot 16:27 rubenwardy that being said, knock back should be engine supported as it requires fancy networking 16:27 rubenwardy not sure about head movement 16:27 tenplus1 o/ ruben 16:27 rubenwardy o/ 16:33 Roger9_ https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2937 hm, per-texture per-node shaders seems like an interesting idea 16:33 twoelk knockback should be considered fundamental for game interaction as there will always be unstatic content 16:34 rubenwardy yes 16:34 rubenwardy it's pretty important as a game mechanic 16:34 rubenwardy not as important as say, lighting, however 16:35 twoelk you could shove a pig of a cliff in the dark 16:36 twoelk hey fixer you forgot all the lighting issues in your list 16:36 Fixer those belong to engine mostly 16:36 tenplus1 wasnt there a pull for knockback at one point and it was closed 16:37 tenplus1 playerplus adds it as a mod tho 16:37 Fixer yes, that knockback was not optimal 16:37 Fixer was not configurable 16:40 rubenwardy also, https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/projects/1 16:40 rubenwardy throwing, mobs, and ambient sounds are there 16:43 Roger9_ it looks like only one change seems to be required for the per-player time offset PR by Arcelmi 16:43 Roger9_ or maybe a couple 16:44 rubenwardy I'm wondering if it's better to add a player:set_time() API and then do the current code in builtin 16:44 rubenwardy I guess clients also run prediction on it 16:45 rubenwardy and the sending is just for syncing 16:45 rubenwardy Fixer, game#2097 16:45 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/2097 -- Add wield3d 16:45 Roger9_ I guess you could use player:set_timeofday(minetest.get_timeofday() + offset) 16:46 rubenwardy yeah 16:46 Roger9_ s/use/do 16:46 rubenwardy that's what built in would do 16:46 Roger9_ depends how the time syncing system works though, does the server send its time of day to the client? 16:47 rubenwardy it does 16:47 rubenwardy but the client may also do time_speed itself 16:47 Roger9_ whadya mean? 16:50 Roger9_ can client set a different time_speed? 16:50 Fixer rubenwardy: one problem with 3dweild was tools reversing 180 deg in hands for some reason 16:51 rubenwardy this is cool https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=19869 16:52 Roger9_ if the server sends its current time of day to the client then a time offset function for each player would make more sense... I think 16:52 Fixer niiice 16:52 Roger9_ rubenwardy: that is cool 16:53 Fixer rubenwardy: do we have isometric view of world map btw? 16:53 rubenwardy yes, est31 or xyz made one 16:53 rubenwardy forget the name 16:53 rubenwardy o something 16:54 Roger9_ if it's faster than loading the mapblocks themselves you might be able to add a LOD effect to minetest 16:55 tenplus1 ?? 16:55 Roger9_ level of detail 16:56 tenplus1 ohh 16:56 Roger9_ basically, "loading" the world outside the render distance but with a lower detail, or using the seed and simplified version of the world generation algorithm to determine what would be there when you do load it 16:57 Roger9_ although I'm pretty sure the problem my computer has with a render distance any higher than about 50 (20 on any server, and even *at* 20 itself on some servers!) is too high of a polygon count... maybe 16:57 Roger9_ as the mapblocks/chunks/whatever you can't see are still loaded 16:59 rubenwardy I'd love to see rendering improvements 17:00 rubenwardy Far map is an attempt at LOD 17:00 rubenwardy but it looked very odd 17:00 Roger9_ ^ 17:00 rubenwardy very unreal 17:00 Roger9_ far map? 17:00 Roger9_ I found an open pull request #3502 if that's what you mean 17:00 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3502 -- Far map and improved map transfer and rendering (WIP) by celeron55 17:00 rubenwardy that's it 17:00 rubenwardy quicker than me 17:01 rubenwardy personally, I found it ugly 17:01 Roger9_ eh, I'm gonna try it 17:01 rubenwardy it would be nice to have Bedrock map distance 17:03 Roger9_ if I can find out how 17:03 Roger9_ do I just do git clone -b far_map_wip_5 ...? 17:04 rubenwardy git checkout HEAD~2000 17:04 rubenwardy git pull https://github.com/celeron55/minetest.get far_map_wip_5 17:04 rubenwardy git pull https://github.com/celeron55/minetest.git far_map_wip_5 17:05 Roger9_ so far: "git clone https://github.com/minetest/minetest.git minetest-farmap; git checkout HEAD~2000; git pull https://github.com/celeron55/minetest.git far_map_wip_5;" 17:05 Roger9_ is that it or should I clone /celer on55/minetest.git? 17:05 rubenwardy cool 17:05 rubenwardy that's fine 17:06 Roger9_ should I use the backport-0.4 version of mt_game? 17:06 * twoelk is off to a big extended family party 17:07 Roger9_ I also assume I should cd minetest-farmap after the clone 17:10 rubenwardy My personal opinion is that MTG should be split up, with the cost of small breaks, as it's currently very damaging to the project 17:10 rubenwardy having default makes it hard to make mods which support multiple games 17:11 rubenwardy makes it hard to remove what you don't want 17:11 rubenwardy and makes it hard to make new games which don't suffer from these issues - you basically need to start from scratch 17:22 Roger9_ that is the weirdest LOD I've seen 17:22 Roger9_ it also doesn't alleviate lag issues 17:27 Fixer Roger9_: you have not seen Farmap 1.0 somewhere in 2012 17:28 Fixer it was kinda broken triangles and shit 17:28 Fixer literally 17:29 Roger9_ maybe I should just try to make the sky below the horizon appear green or something 17:30 Roger9_ but idk how minetest renders the sky 17:30 * tenplus1 envisions Bob Ross in the background somwehere with his happy little mistakes 17:31 Roger9_ or maybe get Bob Ross to paint a skybox 17:31 Krock Roger9_, good luck building a time machine 17:32 Roger9_ I'll use benrob's tardis mod 17:32 tumeninodes didn't they bronze his fro? 17:32 Roger9_ or maybe just /time 17:34 Roger9_ do custom skyboxes use nearest neighbor interpolation? 17:35 tenplus1 hi tumeni 17:36 tumeninodes hi tenplus1, was shakin 17:36 tumeninodes *what's 17:36 tenplus1 mobs api updated, runaway mods no longer runaway from owners :D 17:36 tumeninodes oppressing mob.... excellent 17:37 Roger9_ no mobs with artificial neural networks? :c 17:38 tumeninodes wow, I am a typing behemoth today 17:43 Roger9_ odd 17:43 Roger9_ it's rendering the sides of the skybox upside down? 17:44 Roger9_ and when I upscaled it and flipped it vertically it decided to render the right way up making it upside down again 17:48 Roger9_ nvm, 17:48 Roger9_ yay 17:51 tenplus1 back laters :PPP 17:56 Roger9_ Backyays 18:27 Roger9_ is there a built-in minetest function to convert rgb values to hex? 18:30 Roger9_ Yays 18:30 Roger9_ w 18:35 Krock string.format("%#x%#x%#x%#x", r, g, b, a) 18:35 rubenwardy ew 18:35 rubenwardy that's gross 18:35 Fixer heh 18:35 rubenwardy omg 18:35 rubenwardy I found an option on steam to hide all non-linux games 18:35 Krock or is it %#2x ? *checks* 18:36 rubenwardy pls make afunction 18:38 Krock function abc(r, g, b, a) return string.format("%02x%02x%02x%02x", r, g, b, a) end --tested 18:38 Roger9_ string.format("%#x", hexadecimalValue):match('0x(.+)') 18:39 Krock no no. There are more flags for printf. 0 is what's desired here instead of # 18:41 Roger9_ what algorithm determines the fog color with the default skybox? 18:41 Krock possibly a hard-coded value somewhere in the source code 18:42 Roger9_ fog color in the default skybox isn't hardcoded, in fact it varies based on whether you're looking into a cave 18:42 Krock oh really? 18:44 Roger9_ yes 18:45 Roger9_ unless that's sarcasm, sometimes I can't tell 18:51 Krock no, I'm surprised as I haven't noticed that before 18:51 Krock to be fair.. I turned off the fog on my main PC 18:54 rubenwardy https://contentdb.rubenwardy.com/ 18:54 rubenwardy O_o 18:54 rubenwardy o_O 18:55 Roger9_ Krock: From what I've noticed, both the fog and the sky have the same color (well, similar, as the sky isn't a uniform color but the colors that are there are very similar), and if you look down into a cave or something then the sky and fog darkens 19:04 Krock > Please login! > only "Sign in" available 19:04 rubenwardy lol 19:04 rubenwardy that'll be gone with the redesign 19:04 rubenwardy the front end is very WIP 19:05 rubenwardy I'm waiting for my lab partner to do that, but he's being ellusive 19:07 Roger9 Yays 19:08 * Roger9 installs some mods 20:17 Fixer dropbox at 12 billion usd, lol 20:17 Fixer "The company even warned investors itself that it may never turn a profit" 20:19 rubenwardy dropbox needs to die 20:19 rubenwardy it's ran by a bunch of high designers 20:25 Fixer us has drugs problem 21:39 paramat Fixer you overstate my opinion about MTG (my opinon doesn't dictate it, please stop implying that, 2 other devs can override me anytime) it may be best to keep it a little simple and impress with new games instead, however, notice we are working very hard to add new features, improve it and make it more complete. i have a big todo list and will continuously improve it 21:41 paramat MTG has been changing more rapidly than ever in the last 2 years and especially recently, you are mistaken 21:44 paramat reading logs .. ridiculous negativity and irrational complaining from you 21:46 paramat lack of dev time and slow dev is not lack of interest in a feature, you have no idea how much time it takes just to add a single small feature or improvement 21:48 paramat MTG is very much alive, MTE is quieter due to busy devs, it happens sometimes 21:49 paramat now please stop talking crap about me and remember the dev rules 21:50 paramat the myth about my overwhelming power is very irritating and insulting and shouldn't be repeated to spread it 21:55 paramat Fixer , your list of 15 points, most of those are wanted and i support, it's a case of time 21:57 paramat IhrFussel you're doing it too to some extent 21:58 rubenwardy hmmm https://gist.github.com/rubenwardy/64deac529cef97ab5dc84bc4d1211d3e 21:59 paramat "It's kinda selfish to decide alone or as 2 people over something lots of other people brought up" no one decides alone it takes 2/3 disapprovals to refuse something, devs make the decision it's not democracy 22:00 Mr_Pardison it's a dev-ocracy. 22:00 paramat Fixer sounds like you should go and play MC when you're like this and stop complaining that MT isn't MC 22:08 paramat i have no laziness with steel, it looks like iron + carbon is not correct, note i support the most complex approach: adding an alloy furnace 22:10 paramat we can't significantly break most mods just to change MTG, that's ridiculous 22:11 Mr_Pardison alloy furnace is part of technic but it can be a big lag inducer if there are a lot of machines in one place. 22:14 paramat adding another level of metal and tools (iron) would be repeating a mistake of the past (bronze), we can just make the creation of steel a little more realistic 22:16 Shara paramat: issue is that steel should be... above many of the other things we have 22:19 paramat yes i'm fine with metals rebalance :) 22:24 paramat gentle moderation for today 22:40 paramat i won't tolerate you spreading a nasty myth about me, that's the sort of thing mr. k did, you know therules, alone i am powerless. and please restrain the baseless negativity 22:41 Fixer rubenwardy: will it have something like this with public access? http://bananas.openttd.org/en 22:41 rubenwardy yes 22:50 rubenwardy Fixer, https://i.rubenwardy.com/hhOzD.png 22:54 Fixer rubenwardy: i hope there will be a bit more info about mod somewhere displayed 22:54 rubenwardy yes 22:54 rubenwardy I'm just getting the basic functionality down 22:55 rubenwardy it'll look a bit like this: https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/82Mloe6sxV59rZHjN8j84xPfyL0dQ8hKEnmYM6gcazozNOe4PU0XPwUXSmdsR0MQZA=w1920-h956 22:55 rubenwardy and double clicking will show this: https://i.rubenwardy.com/GO2xM.png 22:55 Mr_Pardison looks nice and streamlined. 22:55 rubenwardy but with a few images 22:59 Fixer rubenwardy: imo i would prefer showing size, version and last change on the main list, maybe even with interactive install(ed)/remove button on the right side near each 22:59 Fixer and mod author column as well 22:59 rubenwardy heh 22:59 rubenwardy this will support multiple screenshots 23:12 Fixer rubenwardy: your android design list is more informative 23:13 rubenwardy jesus christ 23:13 rubenwardy <@rubenwardy> I'm just getting the basic functionality down 23:13 rubenwardy <@rubenwardy> it'll look a bit like this 23:13 rubenwardy so it will look similar to the android list 23:18 rubenwardy yay, installing works! 23:36 rubenwardy https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?p=315179#p315179