IRC log for #minetest-hub, 2018-01-22

Time	Nick	Message
00:12	Fixer	do we have ogl 1.1 support?
00:16	Fixer	VanessaE: hi, 30008 still not visible
00:17	Calinou	Fixer: Minecraft is 2.1+ now IIRC :P
00:17	Calinou	but yeah, it was 1.3+/1.4+ for a long time (it required multitexturing as of Beta 1.8)
00:17	Fixer	both in 0.4.17 and 0.5.0
00:17	Calinou	Minetest is pretty much 2.1+ by now
00:18	Calinou	even though 1.4 could work, but meh, who cares
00:18	Fixer	yeah
00:18	Calinou	I mean, it runs in VirtualBox's OpenGL implementation
00:18	Calinou	that's pretty impressive in 2018
00:19	Fixer	i'm playing mc beta 1.7 anyway
00:20	Fixer	i hope i will check minetest on win 98 se eventually
00:26	Fixer	old pc should support it
00:35	Calinou	heh
00:35	Calinou	I'm pretty sure Windows < XP won't run
00:55	Calinou	today, we're celebrating the 6 years of the 0.4_20120122 release, the last 0.4 pre-release which didn't feature sound support
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02:58	rubenwardy	ctf.rubenwardy.com:30001
02:58	rubenwardy	testers needed
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10:24	tenplus1	hi folks
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10:31	tenplus1	hi CWz
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10:45	tenplus1	wb sfan
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11:47	tenplus1	hi fussel
11:48	IhrFussel	shivajiva, thanks for the link but your mod may be too overkill for what I want to achieve...it#s basically just 3d_armor items I want to disallow so I added another check to the "player set armor" function and return if it finds something containing admin and privs don't match
11:48	IhrFussel	Hello tenplus1
11:49	tenplus1	o/
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11:54	tenplus1	o/ Fixer
12:23	IhrFussel	Why do I make it so hard myself? I can simply use the allow_put callback to disallow admin armor
12:24	tenplus1	:P
12:26	IhrFussel	Works like a charm and without modifying any internal 3d_armor functions
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14:17	IhrFussel	Question @ all server owners: Do you consider the word "crappy" to be something bad? Would you kick/ban for it?
14:18	red-001	I wouldn't but I'm no server owner
14:19	red-001	but I suppose it could depend on context
14:19	Mr-Pardison	^ same
14:19	red-001	like if a player was calling the server crappy I could see not wanting to deal with them
14:19	IhrFussel	IMO not even on a kid-friendly server the word should be considered "bad" ... the player got kicked for saying "my driving skills are crappy"
14:21	IhrFussel	It happened on my server and it was by one of my moderators who defended the action by saying "you said this server is kid-friendly"
14:21	IhrFussel	Kid friendly is PG-13 to me and not baby language
14:21	Mr-Pardison	I agree with red-001 that it depends on the context of its use.
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14:23	IhrFussel	Of course it can be an insult if you call someone else crap/crappy
14:23	IhrFussel	But in this case the player just mocked himself in a way
14:23	red-001	I say use your discretion like always
14:24	red-001	seems like the Mod misinterupted the rules to me in this case
14:27	IhrFussel	He did a some more things last night which is why I demoted him for now, but the kick was the one I understood the least ... seems like "kid-friendly" can mean G, PG or PG13 ... so I might have to specify PG13 in the rules
14:33	red-001	I'm not sure if that would even be an issue for G, almost certain it wouldn't be an issue for PG
14:35	red-001	but then the guildlines for ratings are pretty close to random
14:36	IhrFussel	red-001, PG may be enough for my server, there is nothing that warrants "strong caution" by parents unless some pervert joins
14:36	red-001	censorship is werid
14:42	IhrFussel	red-001, it looks like these days there are less "bad" things allowed in movies compared to the past
14:46	red-001	IhrFussel, you you considered getting a cert from let encrypt or something of that sort of the web UI?
14:46	red-001	for*
14:46	IhrFussel	Wait... PG means "server could contain inappropriate things for all ages" while PG-13 means "could contain inappropriate things if your kid is under 13" right?
14:48	IhrFussel	I had a cert on my old dedi...I didn't have the time yet to install certbot on my new root server yet
14:48	IhrFussel	-yet*
14:48	red-001	https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motion_Picture_Association_of_America_film_rating_system#MPAA_film_ratings I guess you mean these ratings?
14:50	IhrFussel	Yeah you can also use them for other stuff not just movies AFAIK ... so PG-13 means "less kid-friendly" than PG
14:55	IhrFussel	Or maybe not... this PG/PG-13 thing confuses me... I will just state PG-13 in /status
14:57	red-001	ESRB might be more useful when discussing this, but then more people know the terms that MPAA uses
14:57	red-001	https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entertainment_Software_Rating_Board#Ratings
15:02	Calinou	"crappy" is certainly not a swear word, heh
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15:16	tenplus1	hi folks
15:16	red-001	hi 5+6
15:16	tenplus1	hi red :)
15:17	tenplus1	Farming Redo has been updated, 1.30 has garlic, hanging garlic, pepper, ground pepper and onion
15:17	nerzhul	red-001, hi #FE0000
15:18	tenplus1	lol... hey nerzhul
15:18	nerzhul	hi tenplus1
15:18	red-001	hi nerz
15:19	red-001	huh so we can remove all these packets marked with Obsolete?
15:22	lumberJ	hey tenplus1. bringing some flavor to farming redo, huh?
15:23	nerzhul	red-001, which one ?
15:23	tenplus1	hi lumberJ and yeah, Grizzly Adams let me use his textures from crops plus :P
15:24	Mr-Pardison	hiya tenplus1
15:24	tenplus1	hi mister :P
15:24	Mr-Pardison	yay we got some flavor.
15:24	Mr-Pardison	getting close to making a tomato sauce with it.
15:24	Wayward_One	hi all :)
15:25	tenplus1	hi wayward
15:25	Raven262	Hi ten
15:25	tenplus1	hey raven :)
15:25	tenplus1	the textures are quite nice pardison, the garlic clove, bulb and hanging garlics are nicely done, as is pepper, peppercorns and ground pepper in bottle :D
15:26	Mr-Pardison	if it doesn't have salt, we can just use that one salty person we know to add flavor to the meat when it's cooked.
15:26	tenplus1	heh, I should add cooking sea water to give salk
15:26	tenplus1	*salt
15:27	red-001	add it to passwords to improve flavour
15:27	tenplus1	when I have textures done I will add a cooking pan, griddle, cutting knife etc so we can simplify food recipes
15:28	Mr-Pardison	cooking pan. also good for whacking others if needed.
15:30	tenplus1	with a nice doink sound when in use :D
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15:48	tenplus1	wb
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16:25	tenplus1	hi Thomas
16:26	ThomasMonroe	hi tenplus1
16:32	tenplus1	simple skins updated, farming redo updated and a few other mods with fixes... mobs_animal
16:33	ThomasMonroe	oh tenplus1, Caleb "finished" his mobs api
16:34	tenplus1	CBugDecoder ?
16:34	tenplus1	yeh, been playing with it :) it's nice...
16:35	tenplus1	few bugs to fix and I like the smooth rotation :P
16:41	Shara	If anyone has good solutions to shrinking mapsize without losing player's work, please let me know
16:42	Shara	Also, I suggest server owners check for rapid increases in mapsize over the past two weeks
16:42	tenplus1	hi Shara, we got a new bug ?
16:42	Shara	I suspect malicious attack, but RC is down and out until further notice
16:42	ThomasMonroe	ten, nice :D
16:42	Shara	Map increased in size massively until server couldn't take it
16:43	tenplus1	damn
16:43	Shara	Its been constant predictable growth for over two years... now and increase of approx 50% in less than two weeks
16:43	Shara	an*
16:44	tenplus1	gotta check with Shinji and see what size current map is at ?
16:44	Shara	Well, if it's a player trying to generate the extra map in whatever way, might be not only RC getting this
16:44	tenplus1	I do have a python remap.py script that shrinks map and can be customized to save mapblocks containing specific nodes
16:45	Shara	I've looked at things liek that before, but not even sure how to determine what to keep
16:45	Shara	And I don't have space on the server now to save whatever gets produced either
16:46	tenplus1	I have it set to protectors and torches...
16:46	tenplus1	basic player blocks
16:46	Shara	Wouldn't really help on RC though :(
16:46	Shara	I've found huge unprotected builds just made of stone in the past
16:46	tenplus1	aww, yeah those woul dbe removed
16:47	Raven262	And if you set it to cobble?
16:47	Raven262	And limit to a certain height on which the dungeons don't generate.
16:47	Shara	Set what to cobble?
16:47	Raven262	The search.
16:47	Shara	This is a creative server... people build freely with all different things
16:48	Raven262	Oh, I see the problem.
16:48	Shara	I'd need to exclude almost every node that isn't mapgen related and even then lose things
16:48	Mr-Pardison	move them closer in using WE than shrink the map size?
16:48	Mr-Pardison	*then
16:49	Shara	You want to explore the whole map to find them?
16:50	Mr-Pardison	I've got time to kill so I'm willing to help.
16:50	Shara	Mr-Pardison: I appreciate it, but that's an insane approach
16:51	Raven262	Use minetest mapper, and then look for buildings.
16:51	Raven262	I mean, thats kind of faster.
16:52	ThomasMonroe	I don't really know how to use minetest mapper, I probably should use it for LoS
16:52	Shara	Given I have a multilayered map... ugh?
16:54	Raven262	Can it be limited to a certain height?
16:54	Shara	I already limit progression along x and z, but not y
16:55	Raven262	So that is also impossible.
16:56	Shara	I could possibly pull info from areas, and use that to establish upper and lower boundaries, but there's no guarantee the damage is above/below those points
16:56	Shara	And again, no space on the server to save anything I pulled from that
16:57	tenplus1	how big is your map ?
16:57	Raven262	Wait, what is the damage? An ordinary generated map?
16:57	Shara	over 25GB now
16:57	Shara	It was 16 less than two weeks ago
16:58	tenplus1	damn, that's a huge increase in 2 weeks
16:58	Shara	Yup
16:58	Raven262	So somebody got to the server and generated an enormous amount of mapblocks?
16:58	Shara	That's why I think it has to be intentional
16:58	tenplus1	player who just walks around aimlessley generating map
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16:58	tenplus1	hi CBugDCoder
16:58	Shara	Players teleporting to the space layers and skydiving a few times is pretty normal.. it never causes this
16:58	CBugDCoder	hi ten
16:59	Shara	And there's hardly any unexplored map on the surface level, so this can't be from casual exploration
16:59	Raven262	Can something like this be ran from the client side? https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=19472
16:59	tenplus1	erk, I hope not
16:59	Shara	This is probably either someone generating map through the asteroid levels, or noclip underground
17:00	Shara	I've always considered this to be a possible attack on servers, which is why I limited x/z exploration
17:01	Raven262	Well that someone would have to trigger a lot of map generation. So they would have to be there for quite a while.
17:01	tenplus1	would be handy if player stats would tell you how many meters a player has moved within a session
17:01	Shara	Yup, but none of my moderators report noticing anything odd... they always warn people who are spending too long underground/in the sky if they are not clearly building things
17:02	Raven262	Do you close the server boundaries like ten does on Xanadu?
17:02	Shara	I've been called harsh for that before, but it's a creative server. Pointless mapgeneration was never going to do anything but cost me money
17:02	Shara	I can, but very rarely
17:03	Raven262	So someone could make a few accounts and move them around
17:03	tenplus1	how big is the world ? is it possible to impose limits after the fact
17:03	Raven262	At the same time
17:03	Shara	tenplus1: adding mor elimits now won't shrink the mapsize
17:03	tenplus1	true
17:04	Shara	I don't see anyway to salvage this right now
17:05	tenplus1	you could copy map onto desktop and run the remap.py to remove map areas that dont contain specific nodes, but the trouble is finding player nodes that everyone would use
17:06	Shara	1 - windows desktop (so probably not fun)
17:06	tenplus1	bummer
17:06	Shara	2 - size of file... no idea if I can eaily move it
17:07	tenplus1	we need a way to shrink an active map
17:08	Sokomine	Shara: how about the underground? people won't do any mining on a creative server. unless there are underground builds, that is...
17:08	tenplus1	hi Sokomine
17:08	Shara	Lots of underground builds
17:08	Shara	Most of the Moria project isn't even protected for example.
17:09	Shara	If I wipe underground, even if I can exclude protection, I wreck over a year of work by that player just for starters... since it's mostly stone
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17:10	Krock	hi tenplus1
17:10	tenplus1	hey Krock
17:10	tenplus1	snap!
17:10	tenplus1	:P
17:10	Raven262	Is there a way to check how deep has the map been generated?
17:10	Krock	was I faster this time? There's still a queue of bytes to be sent/received
17:10	Raven262	During this growth
17:10	tenplus1	eheheh
17:10	Shara	No idea.. and that won't help anyway
17:10	Shara	Won't tell me up to where buildings go
17:11	tenplus1	Krock: do you know of a way to shrink mapsize ?
17:11	Krock	wow amazing. I was indeed faster :P
17:11	Raven262	How deep could the underground builds go anyway?
17:11	Shara	As deep as the map goes?
17:11	Krock	you can shrink it by using another compression algorithm or data loss -> i.e. chopping
17:11	Raven262	So you gave the players teleport privs?
17:11	Sokomine	Shara: difficult :-(
17:11	Shara	Raven262: there's ways down.
17:11	tenplus1	maps should have a height/depth limit separate from xz
17:11	Raven262	Ah
17:11	Sokomine	Shara: i wish mapblocks would store when/if they had last been modified by players
17:11	Shara	Some players like to build undreground.
17:12	Shara	Sokomine: same.
17:12	Raven262	But there is no point of going 30000 deep
17:12	Shara	Krock: more than happy to hear any ideas you have
17:12	Krock	Sokomine, that's hard to tell as vmanip may be used on them or moretrees modified it
17:12	Shara	Raven262: players are players. For some, the fact that it would be 30000 deep would be reason enough to make a city there
17:13	Raven262	Yeah, probably :P
17:13	Shara	I don't midn chopping off anything lower/higher than highest/lowest protected area ... but I doubt that's where the extra map was generated
17:13	Shara	mind*
17:13	Krock	Shara, I appreciate that ideas to this topic are welcome but if the terrain is already generated, it's somewhat hard to tell whether it has an use for players or not
17:14	Sokomine	Krock: vmanip and moretrees are more or less automatic. any later runs would be of less intrest. even if a player where to work masisvely with worldedit, the player can't work only with worldedit - without ever placing any blocks or digging any. that'd create too boring structures
17:15	Sokomine	Shara: i only know that the map of redcrab i captured years ago - after the server had run for years and lots of cities and other structures had been built - was about 100 mb (mb - not gb!) in size
17:15	Krock	Sokomine, you think so? Some op away floating islands
17:15	Krock	and it's known to be quite hard to place a node regularly into air
17:15	Shara	Krock: I know, but I can't tell if something is a useful idea without hearing it
17:16	Sokomine	Krock: well...if nobody did anything manual there (not even place a torch or dig a single block), then the modification might be of no value creatively speaking
17:16	Krock	Shara, most of my ideas (if I ever have any) are already pre-processed and filtered .. actual output is quite low as you can see :3
17:16	Sokomine	this is mt after all. you can't see very far on most servers. so anything too huge is...too huge to be useful
17:17	tenplus1	a special map-mode on server would be amazing where admin can see mapblock boundaries they are inside and press a key to DELETE that block from map
17:17	Sokomine	Krock: that placing of nodes into air is a problem in sharas space realm. adding a command to add a single node below your foot might help
17:18	Krock	Sokomine, another example are huge, flat spawn areas. They're all modified by WE - if an entire mountain is gone, it's hard to tell whether that air has an use
17:19	Sokomine	tenplus1: hmmm. a single mapblock is too small to do that manually. even a mapchunk. a player exploring and searching for some material in ethereal easily loads a huge amount of the map without doing anything there except some occasional ressource gathering
17:19	Krock	I'd love to delete or even skip saving unused mapblocks but as far I can see the only solution for now is to limit it by axis
17:19	Shara	Yea.. it's nto straight forward, which is why I simply upgraded the server in the past instead of trying anything people suggested to shrink the file
17:19	tenplus1	Sokomine: a key to enable mapblock removal and same key to disable it, taht way you just wander around
17:20	tenplus1	kinda like fastmode
17:20	Sokomine	Krock: but then players or admins will use the area where the mountain was. they will spend considerable amount of time to create a nice spawn. in such a case we can be generous and allow a range of mapblocks around to also remain as they are :-) (they'd have to be generated anyway whenever a player shows up there)
17:21	Sokomine	tenplus1: and then you suddenly discover a place where some unexpected worthy buildings pop up. ups...accidently deleted? and while you walk around it'd all be created anew anyway
17:22	tenplus1	not at all, the mapblocks have a boundary drawn around it so you can go around or turn off deletion
17:22	tenplus1	would be a good fallback for maps that are too huge
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17:22	tenplus1	hi evergreen
17:23	Krock	capitalism extreme mode: pay 1 coal lump to extend the map by the next (facing) mapblock
17:23	tenplus1	lol
17:23	tenplus1	gotta buy your land :D
17:23	Sokomine	tenplus1: i still think that mapblocks are too small for that (they're just 16x16x16 nodes). and i'm not sure what will happen if some mapblocks have been removed while others remain. the map is generated in the form of mapchunks after all
17:24	Sokomine	just storing the amount of manually digged/placed blocks in a mapblock and when it was last used might help
17:25	Sokomine	in theory there's that database behind it. maybe...add new colums to the table? changed mapchunks need to be stored anyway
17:25	Sokomine	wouldn't help with existing things though
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17:27	tenplus1	hi cx384
17:27	Sokomine	perhaps it could help to translate mapblock indices back to mapchunk x,y,z coordinates and store them in a new database for human analysis
17:27	cx384	hi
17:27	Sokomine	hi cx384
17:27	tenplus1	I still think we need a LIVE way to remove areas of map to shrink it incase of emergency
17:29	Shara	Well, big part of my concern here, is even if I magically fix this, I can't be doing this every two weeks
17:29	Shara	And I know there are servers with far stricter space limits than mine
17:30	Shara	As map saving works, it's easily possible for someone to use this to effectively destroy a map
17:30	tenplus1	yeah, which isnt good... we dont need another way to grief a server
17:31	Sokomine	it'd make exporting, saving and sharing maps a lot easier as well if it where possible to detect relevant parts
17:32	Shara	Players want long term stable servers
17:32	Shara	But handling maps that grow to such sizes isn't easy even without sudden growth like this
17:32	tenplus1	an issue may be needed for this one
17:32	Sokomine	shara: do you know where that all-stone creation is? even then - underground structure out of stone. if there are no light-sources there'd be nothing to see. people use other nodes - doors, chests, torches, ladders etc. occasionally
17:33	Shara	You ralise how many lightsources RC has? And I know there are stretches lava is used for light
17:33	Sokomine	hmpf. ban players who create stone creations and light them with lava
17:33	tenplus1	lol
17:36	Sokomine	i'd love to have a way to determine if one of my testworlds holds anything that is still needed or if it may be deleted completely or mostly
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17:37	tenplus1	hi Darcidride
17:38	Sokomine	storing how much was manually changed by players in a mapblock would be very helpful (and when it was last accessed). i wanted to have something like that years ago already. wonder what became of it...did i ever open an issue?
17:46	tenplus1	maybe a server 'cleanup' mode that can remove EMPTY areas of map and dropped items
17:48	IhrFussel	The increase in size Shara got is INSANE and cannot be caused by regular/random exploration...not even if 50 players explore the map for some hours it wouldn't grow 5+ GB in size
17:48	rubenwardy	just reposting my suggestions: the massive explosion implies player abuse to me, so I suggest checking for large metadata (in chests, book shelves) in the map
17:49	rubenwardy	and also making sure you validate any books or things that take and store text
17:49	tenplus1	hrm, how about limiting books to so many pages
17:50	tenplus1	not that THAT is the main cause, but yeah, oversized metadata coudl be an issue
17:50	IhrFussel	My map is 19 GB now since 3-4 weeks and I got quite a few players exploring parts
17:50	rubenwardy	pages are automatic based on manual and automatic line breaks, yes?
17:50	rubenwardy	so worse case a page is WRAPPING_SIZE * MAX_LINES bytes
17:50	tenplus1	wraps text and counts lines
17:56	rubenwardy	ooh, you could sort the db rows by siz
17:56	rubenwardy	then it would return the biggest chunks
17:57	rubenwardy	then you could calculate their position, and see what's wrong there
17:57	rubenwardy	it would tell you if the problem is book related or whatever
18:00	Shara	I'm currently trying to transfer a copy of the map to my local machine, but not sure how to check anything with it once that's done
18:02	rubenwardy	SELECT pos,length(hex(data)) as a FROM blocks ORDER BY a DESC LIMIT 10;
18:02	rubenwardy	will give you the pos and size of the 10 largest map blocks
18:03	tenplus1	hrm
18:03	rubenwardy	ah, it will be 2* the size due to the hex - which makes every byte 2 characters
18:04	rubenwardy	not sure why the website recommended hex(), seems unneeded
18:06	Sokomine	oversized metadata...at least that ought to be possible to figure out on database level
18:06	Sokomine	hmm. at least in theory...
18:07	Sokomine	ah, was already explained here
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18:23	tenplus1	wb
18:29	rubenwardy	made a thing: https://minetest.rubenwardy.com/blockhash.html
18:29	tenplus1	:P
18:35	* Shara	is trying to remember how to use a commandline on windows :D
18:35	tenplus1	heh, dos returns :D
18:35	Shara	haven't needed this in a while
18:36	Shara	moved all logs to local machine so there'd be some space and wouldn't risk my bouncer freaking out
18:36	Shara	So anything involving log searching is through windows now... unless I can be bothered to transfer to another machine
18:37	tenplus1	I wonder what else you can remove for space
18:37	Shara	(I am really hoping it's somehow meta related
18:38	Shara	I've just extracted every line that contains the word "wrote" from every log file for the last two weeks
18:38	Shara	WHich I guess should capture writing to both books and signs
18:40	Shara	But there's definitely not even close to 1gb, never mind 8gb of stuff here :(
18:40	sfan5	if you give me a copy of the hex data of a mapblock I can use a script to look inside and determine what's taking up the space
18:41	Shara	sfan5: 25GB+ map and I currently don't know how to check if it's some specific mapblock
18:41	rubenwardy	:P
18:41	rubenwardy	<rubenwardy> SELECT pos,length(hex(data)) as a FROM blocks ORDER BY a DESC LIMIT 10;
18:41	sfan5	ruben's SQL command from 40m ago is a start
18:41	sfan5	yes that one
18:42	Shara	Yea, but not managed to transfer it yet... and then I need to find a way for this machine to throw queries at it
18:42	rubenwardy	sqliteman
18:42	sfan5	you can just open the map database with the "sqlite3" command line utility
18:42	Shara	:P
18:42	Shara	Windows lol
18:42	rubenwardy	Windows sucks with the command line
18:43	sfan5	this utility also works on windows
18:43	Shara	I'm happy I managed to even string those log files together on here :D
18:43	Shara	But yea, will work something out once it transfers
18:43	Shara	Thank you both
18:43	sfan5	minetest.kitsunemimi.pw/sqlite3-3.19.2-win32.zip includes a copy of sqlite3.exe
18:44	* Shara	downloads
18:47	Calinou	<rubenwardy> Windows sucks with the command line
18:47	Calinou	install the WSL
18:47	Calinou	and for cmd, install https://mridgers.github.io/clink/
18:47	Calinou	(PowerShell has PS-ReadLine installed by default as of Windows 10)
18:47	rubenwardy	nah, rather use the real thing
18:47	Shara	Hehe
18:48	Shara	I used to use commandline from windows computers in work, since it was the only way to stop an annoying manager looking over my shoulder and following every single thing I did. I used to give him a headache so he'd leave.
18:49	Shara	But didn't really try anything within windows for years...
18:49	tenplus1	https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_DOS_commands lol
18:50	Shara	hehe
18:50	tenplus1	I used it a lot in my old job, even made ansi menu's for running prgrams...
18:50	tenplus1	but it's a dying thing now, bash is much better
18:51	Shara	Yikes, some of the things people have written to signs.
18:51	Shara	Kidn of have to wonder what they were building...
18:52	Shara	Kind*
18:52	tenplus1	signs should save the author name as metadata for admin
18:52	Shara	name is logged
18:52	Shara	These aren't inappropriate signs, just weird
18:54	red-001	lol CSM tries to call the shutdown call back even if the Lua sandbox crashes
18:55	red-001	and it even seems to work
18:55	nerzhul	red-001, at least we try to close properly on a segfault
18:55	nerzhul	:D
18:55	rubenwardy	err
18:55	rubenwardy	that's not good
18:56	nerzhul	eyah i know it was a joke
18:56	rubenwardy	ah right
18:56	nerzhul	the lua state is potentially corrupted heh
18:56	red-001	I meant a lua error
18:56	red-001	I think the state should be fine, we use pcall
18:57	nerzhul	in 99% cases it's a null pointer it should be fine, but i'm not sure the lua state is properly re-set to the proper stack on a such event
18:58	sofar	having lua call shutdown has saved me a ton of work
18:59	red-001	huh are errors while loading the script and errors causes in callbacks handled diffirently?
18:59	nerzhul	sofar, yeah, it's useful to do some last saves properly
18:59	sofar	red-001: yes, they are
19:13	sofar	btw for CSM, it should never call callbacks on a crash
19:13	sofar	server-side, yes, sure
19:14	sofar	but csm? definitely not. Try not to further crash the client :)
19:14	sofar	could you run a lua sandbox per CSM?
19:14	sofar	and just kill the one mod that crashed?
19:14	red-001	would need a bit of a rewrote
19:14	tenplus1	+1
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19:14	red-001	but should be possible
19:14	tenplus1	hi aerozoic
19:15	sofar	it might be worthwhile doing that
19:15	red-001	rewrote == rewrite all the callbacks
19:15	red-001	rework*
19:15	sofar	the loss of mods being able to communicate locally may be acceptable and we'd have an increased level of security
19:15	aerozoic	wazup peeps
19:16	sofar	I am not a spongy foodcoloring-laden candy
19:16	red-001	well not sure about the security aspect
19:16	sofar	DID - defense in depth
19:16	nerzhul	sofar, it's possible and there is mod channels permitting to enhance mod communication on CSM
19:16	red-001	well it will allow give different mods diffrent privledges
19:16	sofar	one mod crashes, another mod uses the crashed state as an exploit
19:17	nerzhul	but the callback model should be entierely rewritng
19:17	red-001	we could for instance track if a mod if supplied by the server or the client
19:18	red-001	sofar, how do we handle builtin?
19:18	red-001	do we re-run it for every mod instance?
19:19	red-001	seems to work fine for mainmenu threads so I suppose it will work
19:20	red-001	nerzhul, now that I think about it, it's not that big of a change for callbacks, we can even keep mostly the same code to start off with, just run it for every mod instead of once
19:22	sofar	red-001: yes, you'd run builtin for every context
19:27	Calinou	what open source tools can I use to convert SVGs to color fonts?
19:28	tenplus1	inkscape and fontforge
19:28	tenplus1	icemoon online may help also
19:28	tenplus1	*icomoon
19:28	Calinou	does it support colored fonts? (e.g. emoji)
19:28	tenplus1	dunno, never tried it for that, but you never know :D
19:28		Mr_Pardison joined #minetest-hub
19:28	tenplus1	wb mister
19:29	Mr-Pardison	ty.
19:29	tenplus1	it supports colour bitmap fonts, so maybe scalable's also
19:33	Calinou	it needs to be scalable of course
19:33	tenplus1	:P
19:36	tenplus1	wonder how ubuntu 18.04 did it with the new colour emojii
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19:49	tenplus1	o/ ssieb
19:49	ssieb	hi
19:53	* tenplus1	wonders how easy a python gui would be that would help shrink maps (remove empty blocks, remove entities, remove empty meta, keep blocks containing node list)
19:53	nerzhul	russian mixes are nice heh:
19:53	nerzhul	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPG0Uy7RqWA
19:54	tenplus1	o.O
19:57	Krock	nerzhul, I almost bet that you post this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVj0ZTS4WF4
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20:03	tenplus1	hi evergreen
20:20		EvergreenTree joined #minetest-hub
20:21	tenplus1	nite folks o/
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20:37	sofar	I don't see why that is offtopic
20:37	sofar	congrats
20:37	Calinou	sofar: is it Intel? :P
20:37	sofar	I wish
20:37	sofar	I'd hire him on the spot
20:37	Calinou	~~it's AMD then~~
20:40	rubenwardy	Ha, thanks
20:40	rubenwardy	You're fun
20:40	rubenwardy	Urgh
20:40	Calinou	yes we are very fun
20:40	rubenwardy	You're amusingly close
20:42	Calinou	BuzzFeed Open Source?
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21:17	CBugDCoder	hi Mr-Pardison
21:18	Mr-Pardison	'ello CBugDCoder
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