| Time |
Nick |
Message |
| 00:16 |
Fixer |
loool https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qv6UVOQ0F44 |
| 00:30 |
Fixer |
NES Flappy Bird |
| 00:30 |
Fixer |
waat |
| 00:48 |
Roger9 |
updated https://github.com/rdococ/effects (accidentally used 'Roger9' as 'username' though, so the new commit doesn't seem to be linked to me) |
| 00:49 |
rubenwardy |
it's based on email not username |
| 00:50 |
Roger9 |
but I used my public email from the profile... |
| 00:50 |
rubenwardy |
roger9 Roger9.Home |
| 00:50 |
rubenwardy |
heh |
| 00:50 |
rubenwardy |
doesn't look right :) |
| 00:50 |
Roger9 |
heh, whoops |
| 00:50 |
Roger9 |
well, nevermind :P |
| 00:50 |
rubenwardy |
git commit --amend --reset-author |
| 00:50 |
Roger9 |
I did do that... |
| 00:51 |
rubenwardy |
git config --global user.name and user.email though |
| 00:52 |
Roger9 |
I just did git config --global --edit |
| 00:52 |
Roger9 |
and added a line for "email = (my email)" |
| 00:52 |
Roger9 |
(ofc I put my email there, not literally "(my email)") |
| 00:53 |
rubenwardy |
do git log, does the right email etc appear? |
| 00:53 |
Roger9 |
nope |
| 00:56 |
rubenwardy |
heh |
| 00:57 |
rubenwardy |
make sue you do the amend after wards |
| 00:57 |
rubenwardy |
and save the file |
| 00:58 |
* Roger9 |
wonders if anyone's actually tried the mod |
| 00:58 |
Roger9 |
although they probably have |
| 01:10 |
Megaf |
back |
| 01:10 |
Megaf |
That was nice and warm bike ride |
| 01:11 |
benrob0329 |
Megaf: https://addons.palemoon.org/addon/pmopera/ |
| 01:11 |
benrob0329 |
better theme for Pale Moon? :P |
| 01:14 |
Megaf |
Opera has tabs on the top |
| 01:19 |
benrob0329 |
Megaf: thats an option |
| 01:20 |
benrob0329 |
the entire UI is customization |
| 01:21 |
benrob0329 |
*customizable |
| 01:27 |
Megaf |
Just found this link http://paste.debian.net/plain/1001768 |
| 01:28 |
Megaf |
that's a single thing http://paste.debian.net/1001768/ |
| 01:28 |
Megaf |
(Made from several things, yes) |
| 01:28 |
Megaf |
it's most likely a bug |
| 01:29 |
benrob0329 |
Megaf: it doesn't do anything though... |
| 01:29 |
Megaf |
nope, it's a bug |
| 01:43 |
Megaf |
benrob0329: I think now i did all correct https://github.com/Megaf/nether-pack/commit/175db7fd45730a4236b63bd6457d11526e3a587f |
| 01:44 |
Megaf |
I made other change tho, |
| 02:06 |
Megaf |
night |
| 02:08 |
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| 02:08 |
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| 02:18 |
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| 02:27 |
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| 02:39 |
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| 03:04 |
* benrob0329 |
uploaded an image: 2017-12-20.png (10KB) <https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/v1/download/matrix.org/YUeiWgCpewaOrxetAubosNcv> |
| 03:04 |
benrob0329 |
Krock sfan5 ^^ |
| 03:04 |
benrob0329 |
friends of mine on Windows are having issues |
| 03:05 |
benrob0329 |
latest stable, both x64 and x32 (MINGW) |
| 05:06 |
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| 05:06 |
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| 06:27 |
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| 06:29 |
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| 06:29 |
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| 06:31 |
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| 06:31 |
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| 06:51 |
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| 07:12 |
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| 07:24 |
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| 07:29 |
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| 07:30 |
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| 07:34 |
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| 07:38 |
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| 08:51 |
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| 08:51 |
CWz |
does the anticheat that checks digging to far desides when the player digs too far based on the longest reach tool? |
| 08:53 |
sfan5 |
benrob0329: tell him to run mt in a console window and check what it outputs |
| 09:09 |
|
behalebabo joined #minetest-hub |
| 09:16 |
Megaf |
benrob0329: tell htem to stop using drugs |
| 09:57 |
|
Fixer joined #minetest-hub |
| 10:25 |
Megaf |
What's Minetes Discord? |
| 10:32 |
|
Raven262 joined #minetest-hub |
| 10:34 |
Megaf |
we dont have one, ok :) |
| 11:55 |
|
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| 11:58 |
|
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| 11:58 |
|
Megaf[m] joined #minetest-hub |
| 11:58 |
Megaf[m] |
Hm |
| 11:59 |
Megaf[m] |
Benrob0329: ping |
| 12:36 |
|
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| 13:06 |
|
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| 13:46 |
|
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| 13:51 |
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| 14:22 |
benrob0329 |
Megaf: pong |
| 14:38 |
* benrob0329 |
notes that servers should use jordan4ibanez's drops mod (fork of item_drop with improvements) |
| 14:39 |
* benrob0329 |
also notes that he fixed the headache inducing pickup sounds that had the gain turned up to 10 |
| 14:45 |
|
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| 15:14 |
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| 15:16 |
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| 15:23 |
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| 16:14 |
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| 16:22 |
jas_ |
https://github.com/jastevenson303/snd/blob/master/init.lua lol |
| 16:53 |
|
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| 17:30 |
|
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| 18:11 |
|
EvergreenTree joined #minetest-hub |
| 18:15 |
|
sniper570 joined #minetest-hub |
| 18:35 |
sofar |
rubenwardy: maybe fix the screenshot in the Achievements mod? |
| 18:55 |
sofar |
rubenwardy: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?p=305038#p305038 |
| 18:58 |
Krock |
never trust your formspec fields |
| 18:58 |
sofar |
this mod has zero checking |
| 18:58 |
sofar |
easy exploit, too |
| 18:58 |
sofar |
almost as easy as this one: |
| 18:59 |
sofar |
youtu.be/BGPP5nrOlbQ |
| 18:59 |
Krock |
not anymore |
| 18:59 |
sofar |
I know :) |
| 18:59 |
sofar |
but it was still fun to make that exploit work |
| 19:01 |
Krock |
afaik there's no node placement delay forced by servers, so that could be another problem with hacked clients. however, it's not such an important issue as CSM |
| 19:01 |
sofar |
as in, I could place hundreds of nodes at once? |
| 19:01 |
sofar |
that would be easy to exploit, too |
| 19:02 |
sofar |
neat, I should try and build that exploit as well |
| 19:02 |
benrob0329 |
Could place thousands |
| 19:02 |
sofar |
you'd need to have the items in your inventory |
| 19:02 |
benrob0329 |
True |
| 19:02 |
sofar |
but yeah, not an issue in creative |
| 19:02 |
benrob0329 |
That can probably be exploited as well |
| 19:02 |
sofar |
client-side schematic placement |
| 19:02 |
sofar |
lol |
| 19:03 |
Krock |
^ |
| 19:03 |
benrob0329 |
*sigh* |
| 19:03 |
benrob0329 |
CSM was a mistake |
| 19:03 |
sofar |
https://i.imgur.com/MlHm0Zg.gif |
| 19:04 |
Krock |
could and was. I have such a filling tool (like in WE) which would work quite well if I hadn't messed up the position sorting |
| 19:04 |
Krock |
sofar, wait where? |
| 19:04 |
sofar |
your server, soon |
| 19:04 |
Krock |
> implies I have a server |
| 19:04 |
sofar |
once I get this exploit working :) |
| 19:05 |
sofar |
I know you don't, I was just hypothesizing |
| 19:05 |
Krock |
disabled anticheat also allows the opposite: digging away mountains (as long the blocks are loaded) in an instant |
| 19:35 |
|
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| 19:35 |
|
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| 19:43 |
|
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| 19:46 |
|
paramat joined #minetest-hub |
| 19:47 |
Megaf |
https://imgur.com/gallery/Xroxo |
| 19:47 |
Megaf |
Those ^ |
| 19:47 |
Megaf |
!title |
| 19:47 |
MinetestBot |
Megaf: Happy almost Friday. - Album on Imgur |
| 19:48 |
Krock |
it's already Friday in the east |
| 19:49 |
|
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| 19:51 |
Jordach |
sofar: explain the CVSS |
| 19:52 |
Jordach |
https://www.first.org/cvss/ |
| 19:52 |
Jordach |
never mind :^) |
| 19:53 |
sofar |
just paste that thing into the website, and it explains how bad the vulnerability is |
| 19:53 |
sofar |
hint: 9.9 score, lol |
| 19:54 |
sofar |
(anything over 7 is "oh crap") |
| 19:54 |
Sokomine |
Krock: as long as anticheat does not constantly reset the position due to some strange small discrepancy between where server and client each think the player ought to be... |
| 19:55 |
rubenwardy |
No no no no. Noooo |
| 19:55 |
rubenwardy |
yay remote code execution! |
| 19:58 |
Megaf |
Can we remove CSM already? |
| 19:58 |
Megaf |
Anyway, it has been created |
| 19:59 |
Megaf |
now anyone could always just use older client with CSM and do whatever one wants |
| 19:59 |
Megaf |
An uncontrollable monster has been born. |
| 20:00 |
Aerozoic |
Is inchranet down temporarily? |
| 20:01 |
rubenwardy |
Aerozoic, permanently I believwe |
| 20:01 |
rubenwardy |
#ve-minetest-servers |
| 20:02 |
Aerozoic |
oh, i'm surprised i didn't hear about that. |
| 20:02 |
rubenwardy |
VanessaE may be able to tell you more |
| 20:03 |
Krock |
researched a bit about vulnerability and found (probably) vsauce: https://www.cisco.com/ |
| 20:05 |
Megaf |
Wat vulnerability are you talking about? |
| 20:05 |
rubenwardy |
<sofar> rubenwardy: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?p=305038#p305038 |
| 20:06 |
Megaf |
shouldnt minetest core or lua protect against that? |
| 20:06 |
Krock |
nvm, it's really vsauce |
| 20:06 |
rubenwardy |
Megaf, it would |
| 20:07 |
rubenwardy |
however not if sandboxing was off |
| 20:07 |
Megaf |
oh boy, that mod is terrible |
| 20:07 |
Megaf |
!seen InterVi |
| 20:07 |
MinetestBot |
Megaf: intervi was last seen at 2017-07-06 06:14:29 UTC on #minetest |
| 20:08 |
Megaf |
!tell InterVi This mod should be deleted. It's gigantic security breach. https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?p=305038 |
| 20:08 |
MinetestBot |
Megaf: I'll pass that on when InterVi is around |
| 20:09 |
Megaf |
well, at least the authors says it's a backdoor |
| 20:09 |
Megaf |
But I'm scared that is even possible |
| 20:09 |
Megaf |
imagine what that + CSM could do |
| 20:09 |
rubenwardy |
it won't be possible to disable the sandbox in CSM |
| 20:09 |
rubenwardy |
there may be vulnerabilities however |
| 20:10 |
Megaf |
And on that bombshell.. |
| 20:10 |
Megaf |
I'm out for a bike ride. |
| 20:10 |
|
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| 20:15 |
benrob0329 |
CSM was a horrid, horrid mistake |
| 20:16 |
* rubenwardy |
wishes it were the client-side scripting we were promised |
| 20:16 |
benrob0329 |
Lets push a 0.4.17 release and ask all distros to remove any remains of. 16 |
| 20:17 |
benrob0329 |
Oh wait, Ubuntu wont even get .16 until sometime in the next century |
| 20:18 |
Fixer |
lol, no |
| 20:18 |
Fixer |
you are overreacting |
| 20:18 |
Fixer |
removing csm does not magically fix vulnerabilities |
| 20:19 |
benrob0329 |
CSM is a vulnerability |
| 20:20 |
rubenwardy |
technically no |
| 20:20 |
rubenwardy |
CSM makes existing vulnerabilities easier, but isn't a vulnerability in itself |
| 20:20 |
rubenwardy |
until we add server-sent scripts, that is |
| 20:20 |
benrob0329 |
CSM wasn't even supposed to be for client installed mods, it was supposed to be for reducing the load on servers iirc |
| 20:21 |
rubenwardy |
no, it was supposed to be for client-side prediction |
| 20:21 |
rubenwardy |
reducing the load on servers would be a vulnerability for cheating |
| 20:21 |
rubenwardy |
client-side prediction - better carts / entity movement, GUIs, audiovisual |
| 20:21 |
benrob0329 |
Ambiance doesnt need to be on the server, it can be sent to the client |
| 20:22 |
rubenwardy |
audiovisuals |
| 20:22 |
rubenwardy |
nerzhul bastardised it with his WoW vision |
| 20:22 |
rubenwardy |
http://dev.minetest.net/Client_scripting_plans |
| 20:22 |
benrob0329 |
I dont think we need to take any hints from WoW |
| 20:24 |
rubenwardy |
but any attempts to move it more into what it should be meets resistance from other core devs |
| 20:24 |
rubenwardy |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/6670 |
| 20:24 |
rubenwardy |
because apparently I hate disabled people |
| 20:25 |
shivajiva |
anyone running the shell mod would need to do it with mod security off, leaving themselves exposed, can't see that catching on. |
| 20:27 |
sofar |
please note, that mod is insecure even with CSM disabled |
| 20:27 |
Fixer |
yep |
| 20:27 |
sofar |
it would be trivial to exploit even with CSM entirely removed |
| 20:27 |
Fixer |
csm is helping uncover security vulnerabilies, see? see? si? |
| 20:28 |
sofar |
it helped me make a packet fuzzer in lua, so it also helps me find and fix security issues, yes |
| 20:28 |
sofar |
most importantly, it helps to validate that the fixes actually *fix* things |
| 20:28 |
shivajiva |
lol I just thought it stopped anyone ignoring them, sure I pointed out it was a little slack on security |
| 20:28 |
sofar |
which is critical, of course |
| 20:29 |
rubenwardy |
yeah, I like how its exposed bugs which have always existed |
| 20:30 |
rubenwardy |
any future development needs to be done to match the usecases in http://dev.minetest.net/Client_scripting_plans |
| 20:43 |
benrob0329 |
That Github thread was depressing to read |
| 20:57 |
sofar |
https://github.com/RuMinetestCoder/shell_mod/commit/9e6042e06e089a2c504aa8ea0318f379072e9db5 |
| 20:57 |
sofar |
looks like he fixed it, lol |
| 20:58 |
Fixer |
nice |
| 21:00 |
nore |
at least that was quick |
| 21:01 |
sofar |
yep, always good when people take action instead of putting the work off |
| 21:01 |
sofar |
maybe I should scan the forum for some more exploits that aren't found yet, just as entertainment |
| 21:06 |
nore |
sofar: btw, I should have fixed the furnace pr |
| 21:15 |
VanessaE |
Aerozoic, rubenwardy: inchra is dead more or less. with my impairments, and ShadowNinja AWOL, I can't maintain my ircd server, so I shut it and the related website down and moved my minetest servers to freenode #ve-minetest-servers. Nate shut his ircd down also. so all that remains is ShadowNinja's ircd, and ShadowBot, sorta. |
| 21:15 |
ShadowNinja |
Hey! I'm still here! :-| |
| 21:16 |
VanessaE |
.... |
| 21:16 |
ShadowNinja |
I've been busy with school, but I'm on break now. |
| 21:16 |
VanessaE |
dude I've been trying to reach you since mid november... |
| 21:16 |
VanessaE |
well anyway, there ^ it is. |
| 21:17 |
VanessaE |
you may want to poke at ShadowBot. |
| 21:17 |
Aerozoic |
ok thanks |
| 21:18 |
ShadowNinja |
VanessaE: I monitor my MT email, so you con do that when I'm not available on IRC. |
| 21:19 |
VanessaE |
I don't know your email address. |
| 21:19 |
VanessaE |
anyway re impairments: I had a stroke on Nov 18. I've been rather dysfunctional since, but recovering. |
| 21:19 |
* benrob0329 |
notes that IRC is becoming equivalent to Freenode |
| 21:20 |
VanessaE |
heh |
| 21:20 |
VanessaE |
well if the shoe fits. |
| 21:21 |
ShadowNinja |
VanessaE: It's my username at minetest.net I think it's posted on the website. |
| 21:21 |
benrob0329 |
Centralize it ;-) |
| 21:21 |
rubenwardy |
aw man, not good. Hope you get well soon |
| 21:22 |
Calinou |
hi |
| 21:22 |
Calinou |
VanessaE: :( I hope you get well soon |
| 21:22 |
ShadowNinja |
Yeah, it's on the credits page (and in the credits menu in the game). |
| 21:22 |
VanessaE |
rubenwardy, Calinou you guys hadn't heard? |
| 21:22 |
Calinou |
nope |
| 21:22 |
rubenwardy |
I can host an irc node for inchranet if you like, up to you |
| 21:23 |
rubenwardy |
well, providing it doesn't take more than a few hours to set up |
| 21:23 |
Calinou |
these days, it sounds like everybody's dying |
| 21:23 |
Calinou |
so I can't even keep up anyway |
| 21:23 |
VanessaE |
ShadowNinja: I've been avoiding even trying to play, I can't operate the client fluidly anymore, at least not yet |
| 21:23 |
VanessaE |
didn't think to look there |
| 21:24 |
Megaf |
Oh boi. We gonabe tolkin baut CSM foh a realy long time |
| 21:24 |
rubenwardy |
how does one get a fancy @minetest.net email? :D |
| 21:24 |
Megaf |
dat eengleesh |
| 21:24 |
benrob0329 |
VanessaE: prayers :-) |
| 21:24 |
ShadowNinja |
VanessaE: Yeah, you have to kind of know where to look. |
| 21:25 |
Megaf |
rubenwardy: I will have one too please :P |
| 21:25 |
Megaf |
megafminetest.net looks good |
| 21:25 |
ShadowNinja |
rubenwardy: I asked xyz to add it, I'm not sure if c55 has control of that now. |
| 21:25 |
VanessaE |
well so long as I'm filling you guys in... rubenwardy, Calinou.. it affected my whole left side. initially had a speech impediment (to myself I sounded drunk), poor balance, a veer to the left when walking, and it totally trashed my left hand dexterity |
| 21:25 |
Calinou |
are you right-handed or left-handed? |
| 21:26 |
VanessaE |
Calinou: right |
| 21:26 |
VanessaE |
Megaf: dude, seriously... you bring that up NOW? |
| 21:27 |
Megaf |
VanessaE: what? bring what? |
| 21:27 |
VanessaE |
CSM. |
| 21:27 |
Megaf |
no, they are talking about it, up there ^ scroll up |
| 21:27 |
VanessaE |
stop changing the subject to something on-topic :P |
| 21:28 |
ShadowNinja |
VanessaE: Sorry to hear, it seems I've missed a lot, I've been trying to catch up over the past few hours. |
| 21:28 |
benrob0329 |
On-topic, whats that? |
| 21:28 |
VanessaE |
ShadowNinja: yeah, you have. |
| 21:28 |
VanessaE |
ShadowNinja: stop detaching your client :P |
| 21:29 |
Megaf |
VanessaE: well, There's this guy working at my home now, a plumber or something, he had a stroke too, had a whole side paralyzed. Couldn't even go to toilet alone. That was couple of months ago. He fully recovered his movements now. |
| 21:29 |
VanessaE |
thanks, benrob0329 :) |
| 21:29 |
Megaf |
And he is like 50+ years old. I'm sure you will do fantastic VanessaE |
| 21:30 |
VanessaE |
Megaf: I'm about 5 weeks out. still some significant impairments. I don't trust myself to code. :( |
| 21:30 |
|
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| 21:31 |
Megaf |
VanessaE: according to him he does feels different, he is not the same. He says he is 76% recovered at this point. |
| 21:31 |
Megaf |
Just don't give up ok? Keep pushing |
| 21:31 |
VanessaE |
I don't plan to. |
| 21:31 |
ShadowNinja |
VanessaE: I've been trying to avoid too many distractions... Still managed to find some extra stuff to fill my free time though. |
| 21:31 |
Megaf |
I had some ugly stuff happen to my brain too and here I am. Though I'm a terrible coder... |
| 21:31 |
Calinou |
I have a lot of things to do this holiday too |
| 21:31 |
Calinou |
:/ |
| 21:32 |
benrob0329 |
What's a holiday? Its just different work |
| 21:32 |
Calinou |
yeah, pretty much |
| 21:32 |
Megaf |
I basically stopped breathing for God knows how long and that killed a big chunk of my brain |
| 21:32 |
Calinou |
involves occasional depression as well :P |
| 21:33 |
* nore |
also has soooo many things to do this holiday |
| 21:33 |
nore |
some of them minetest-related :) |
| 21:33 |
rubenwardy |
woo :D |
| 21:33 |
Calinou |
none of them here |
| 21:33 |
nore |
like, working on inside the box a bit more ^^ |
| 21:33 |
rubenwardy |
aww |
| 21:33 |
Calinou |
I don't have time to work on many projects anymore |
| 21:33 |
Calinou |
to be fair, I don't like growing up |
| 21:33 |
Megaf |
19:33 <nore> some of them minetest-related :) |
| 21:33 |
rubenwardy |
engine PRs pls |
| 21:33 |
Megaf |
+1 |
| 21:34 |
* nore |
disappears |
| 21:34 |
nore |
ehm |
| 21:34 |
Megaf |
Calinou: meh, Kinda like, but I don't |
| 21:34 |
nore |
I'll... see what I have time for :p |
| 21:34 |
Megaf |
to much responsibility and stuff to do |
| 21:34 |
rubenwardy |
tbh, engine dev isn't fun. It's so incredibly messy |
| 21:35 |
nore |
yup |
| 21:35 |
nore |
I wonder how we even keep going with that codebase |
| 21:35 |
rubenwardy |
I'd like to get to a state where I can make a PR and enjoy making it |
| 21:35 |
rubenwardy |
rather than making it just to make the engine better |
| 21:35 |
rubenwardy |
what's QA again?? |
| 21:35 |
nore |
QA? |
| 21:36 |
rubenwardy |
quality-assurance |
| 21:36 |
rubenwardy |
it was a rhetorical question |
| 21:36 |
nore |
aah :D |
| 21:36 |
Calinou |
<nore> I wonder how we even keep going with that codebase |
| 21:36 |
Calinou |
people in 2011: "not enough features!" |
| 21:36 |
Calinou |
:D |
| 21:36 |
Calinou |
I remember it all |
| 21:37 |
rubenwardy |
lol, ^ |
| 21:37 |
nore |
I do as well |
| 21:37 |
* nore |
was among these people :'( |
| 21:37 |
* rubenwardy |
only joined in Jan 2012, but remembers it well then |
| 21:37 |
nore |
and... some of my changes were basically hacks ^^' |
| 21:37 |
* rubenwardy |
wished he joined a month earlier |
| 21:37 |
nore |
heh |
| 21:37 |
nore |
I think I joined in 2012 as well |
| 21:38 |
* benrob0329 |
wishes MT was a proper lua game engine |
| 21:38 |
benrob0329 |
As in a lua library |
| 21:38 |
|
CBugDCoder joined #minetest-hub |
| 21:38 |
rubenwardy |
a big issue we're going to have in the future is retaining developers |
| 21:38 |
rubenwardy |
we have it now |
| 21:39 |
Calinou |
-*- rubenwardy wished he joined a month earlier |
| 21:39 |
Calinou |
you would have assisted to the creation of the most important mod ever |
| 21:39 |
Calinou |
(is "assisted" correct here?) |
| 21:39 |
Calinou |
(as in, "seen") |
| 21:39 |
rubenwardy |
mesecons? |
| 21:39 |
Calinou |
moreblocks :p |
| 21:39 |
rubenwardy |
or more blocks |
| 21:39 |
rubenwardy |
lol |
| 21:39 |
Calinou |
and moreores |
| 21:39 |
nore |
and more* |
| 21:39 |
Calinou |
moremods |
| 21:39 |
Krock |
moremobmods |
| 21:40 |
rubenwardy |
well, there's to things - sufficient contributors, which may only make one PR and then disappear |
| 21:40 |
rubenwardy |
and dedicated and competent developers |
| 21:40 |
benrob0329 |
Two mods with questionable maintenance at times :P |
| 21:40 |
rubenwardy |
you need both |
| 21:40 |
nore |
dedicated developers is hard |
| 21:40 |
rubenwardy |
yeah |
| 21:40 |
nore |
I don't know how the wesnoth people for instance find all their time |
| 21:40 |
rubenwardy |
dedicated meaning they put enough time in |
| 21:40 |
rubenwardy |
not doing Minetest full timne |
| 21:41 |
rubenwardy |
or the only thing they do |
| 21:41 |
rubenwardy |
so dedicated is probably the wrong word |
| 21:41 |
Calinou |
the power of NEETs |
| 21:41 |
nore |
true - but finding people ready to invest *all* their free time in mt for a period longer than a month is basically impossible |
| 21:41 |
Calinou |
(many open source games are led by people who don't have a job and aren't in education) |
| 21:41 |
rubenwardy |
for example, paramat, nerzhul, and krock |
| 21:41 |
Calinou |
Red Eclipse, Stunt Rally, Uebergame all are/were :P |
| 21:42 |
nore |
Calinou: what's about being in education? |
| 21:42 |
nore |
I don't really think you get more free time |
| 21:42 |
rubenwardy |
yeah. We'd just need to make Minetest dev more addictive and fun |
| 21:43 |
rubenwardy |
add loot boxes to development |
| 21:43 |
benrob0329 |
Not using C++ :^) |
| 21:43 |
Megaf |
lets just revert back to 0.3 and improve on that using all knowledge we acquired. |
| 21:43 |
rubenwardy |
lol |
| 21:43 |
Megaf |
and do a proper mod API based on Python or Go |
| 21:43 |
benrob0329 |
Kek |
| 21:44 |
benrob0329 |
But I like lua :-( |
| 21:44 |
Megaf |
ok, we can support Lua and Go |
| 21:45 |
benrob0329 |
Lua isn't the problem, its plenty fast for most things |
| 21:45 |
benrob0329 |
The problem is unoptimized code |
| 21:45 |
rubenwardy |
the problem is the API design generally |
| 21:45 |
Megaf |
we have run in some Lua limitation actually |
| 21:45 |
rubenwardy |
*cough* formspecs *cough* |
| 21:45 |
Hijiri |
but I don't like Go |
| 21:45 |
rubenwardy |
*cough* HUD *cough* |
| 21:45 |
Hijiri |
what about HAskell |
| 21:45 |
Hijiri |
Haskell* |
| 21:45 |
rubenwardy |
oh god |
| 21:45 |
Krock |
déjà vu |
| 21:45 |
* Megaf |
LMAOS |
| 21:46 |
benrob0329 |
Doing a check on every player, every globalstep is going to cause lag. |
| 21:46 |
rubenwardy |
the only thing haskell is good for is compilers |
| 21:46 |
rubenwardy |
anyone that disagrees is an academic |
| 21:46 |
Megaf |
I haven't seen and used any Haskell ever, so yeah |
| 21:46 |
Hijiri |
haskell is good for everything, it makes everything better |
| 21:47 |
Megaf |
Hijiri: I'd say the same for Go |
| 21:47 |
Hijiri |
I don't like Go's type system mostly |
| 21:47 |
Megaf |
Hijiri: http://benchmarksgame.alioth.debian.org/u64q/compare.php?lang=ghc&lang2=go |
| 21:47 |
Hijiri |
maybe we should use Rust |
| 21:47 |
Megaf |
they are both amazing... |
| 21:48 |
benrob0329 |
I'm neutral on both, but I've bought a book on Lua now so... |
| 21:48 |
Megaf |
rust vs Go http://benchmarksgame.alioth.debian.org/u64q/compare.php?lang=rust&lang2=go |
| 21:48 |
Calinou |
nore: I said that they're not in education |
| 21:48 |
Megaf |
just replace language name in the link |
| 21:48 |
rubenwardy |
most developers are in education, in fact |
| 21:48 |
Calinou |
Rust is nice, if you can manage to write more than 500 lines with it |
| 21:49 |
nore |
^ indeed |
| 21:49 |
Calinou |
it got painful for me in a 300-line CLI program |
| 21:49 |
Calinou |
Nim is the language I'd rather use now |
| 21:49 |
nore |
heh |
| 21:49 |
Calinou |
if I had to use a noobified version of C++ |
| 21:49 |
Calinou |
(:D) |
| 21:49 |
nore |
a lot of people I know here are learning Rust |
| 21:49 |
Megaf |
dont put lua in that benchmark link, it's just painfully slow compared to everything else |
| 21:49 |
Calinou |
as much as C++ is king, it sucks to write it :( |
| 21:49 |
Calinou |
nore: are they listening to Fighting the Borrow Checker yet? |
| 21:49 |
nore |
and they are constantly swearing at the type system |
| 21:49 |
nore |
well, they managed to crash the compiler |
| 21:49 |
* rubenwardy |
likes writing C++ |
| 21:49 |
Megaf |
I like C++ too |
| 21:50 |
rubenwardy |
Minetest isn't good C++ |
| 21:50 |
nore |
also, to have programs that take exponentially long to compile |
| 21:50 |
Calinou |
C++ doesn't even have a good build system or package manager that works in most use cases |
| 21:50 |
Calinou |
Meson is nice, but it's (currently) not very popular |
| 21:50 |
nore |
(without even wanting it) |
| 21:50 |
benrob0329 |
Megaf: lua is only slow compared to compiled languages |
| 21:50 |
Calinou |
and it doesn't handle package management (though "wraps" resemble a minimal version of it) |
| 21:50 |
rubenwardy |
<nore> crash the compiler |
| 21:50 |
Calinou |
benrob0329: it is slow compared to fast interpreted languages such as PHP |
| 21:50 |
rubenwardy |
I did that loads with Haskell |
| 21:50 |
Megaf |
benrob0329: Lua is slow compared to Haskell and Go |
| 21:50 |
Megaf |
and Rust |
| 21:50 |
nore |
rubenwardy: well, I wonder how long it would take to rewrite minetest to better C++ |
| 21:50 |
nore |
too long, I fear |
| 21:50 |
benrob0329 |
Calinou: but PHP sucks :^) |
| 21:50 |
Calinou |
nore: doesn't make sense indeed |
| 21:50 |
rubenwardy |
yeah |
| 21:51 |
Calinou |
modern C++ is nice, but very few projects can make use of it |
| 21:51 |
rubenwardy |
you can make gradual improvemtns |
| 21:51 |
nore |
hmmm, I often crash my own compilers |
| 21:51 |
rubenwardy |
like, nuke Game and the input system |
| 21:51 |
benrob0329 |
Megaf: both of those are compiled |
| 21:51 |
Calinou |
anyway I'm doing Java for an university assignment |
| 21:51 |
rubenwardy |
define the scope of all classes |
| 21:51 |
nore |
Calinou: oh no, not Java :/ |
| 21:51 |
Calinou |
works for me |
| 21:51 |
Calinou |
besides, it's not up for discussion anyway |
| 21:51 |
Megaf |
benrob0329: lua still painfully slow compared to python3. http://benchmarksgame.alioth.debian.org/u64q/compare.php?lang=python3&lang2=lua |
| 21:51 |
nore |
yeah, I guess so |
| 21:51 |
rubenwardy |
Java sucks |
| 21:51 |
Calinou |
I prefer this to C++, because it's easier and we don't need C++ performance |
| 21:51 |
* rubenwardy |
loves Kotlin |
| 21:51 |
Calinou |
(for what we're doing) |
| 21:52 |
Hijiri |
Kotlin is the new meme right |
| 21:52 |
Calinou |
feel free to Javhate all you want, if you like wasting time |
| 21:52 |
Calinou |
Kotlin is surely cool, we don't have time to look at it |
| 21:52 |
nore |
I just don't even bother thinking about Java :) |
| 21:52 |
nore |
or reading Java code, actually |
| 21:52 |
rubenwardy |
Calinou, bear in mind, that I had a job writing Java |
| 21:52 |
Calinou |
was it for Android? |
| 21:52 |
rubenwardy |
yeah |
| 21:52 |
benrob0329 |
Megaf: lua was twice as fast for some of those :-) |
| 21:52 |
benrob0329 |
Plus LuaJIT |
| 21:53 |
nore |
<Calinou> anyway I'm doing Java for an university assignment <-- btw, what are you studying? |
| 21:53 |
Calinou |
rubenwardy: there's your problem :P |
| 21:53 |
Calinou |
nore: computer engineering at the UTT |
| 21:53 |
Calinou |
("ISI") |
| 21:53 |
rubenwardy |
Android dev is very nice with Kotlin |
| 21:53 |
rubenwardy |
<3 |
| 21:53 |
Megaf |
Calinou: I studied computer engineering from 2009 to 2011 |
| 21:53 |
Megaf |
learned some C++, C and Assembly |
| 21:53 |
Megaf |
"learned" |
| 21:53 |
Megaf |
and FPGAs |
| 21:54 |
nore |
oh, nice |
| 21:54 |
Calinou |
we don't do C/C++/ASM here |
| 21:54 |
rubenwardy |
I also had a project at uni in Java, glad to be rid of that |
| 21:54 |
Calinou |
at least not on this level, I entered directly in 3rd year :P |
| 21:54 |
Calinou |
(this year) |
| 21:54 |
Calinou |
rubenwardy: was it a card game? |
| 21:54 |
Megaf |
Now I'm doing Science in Information Technology |
| 21:54 |
rubenwardy |
it was a multiplayer game based on a board game |
| 21:54 |
rubenwardy |
with an AI |
| 21:54 |
Calinou |
wow, so close |
| 21:54 |
Calinou |
I'm doing a card game |
| 21:54 |
Calinou |
teachers love card games |
| 21:55 |
Hijiri |
give it a gacha slot mechanic |
| 21:55 |
Megaf |
I'm doing an ATM... |
| 21:55 |
rubenwardy |
the AI was written in Java, and based on minmax with alpha beta pruning |
| 21:55 |
Hijiri |
and microtransactions |
| 21:55 |
rubenwardy |
also, it was multiplayer networked |
| 21:55 |
nore |
seems a lot of people here are students indeed :) |
| 21:55 |
nore |
(or were students not long ago) |
| 21:55 |
* benrob0329 |
disappeares |
| 21:55 |
Calinou |
Hijiri: and Twitch integration |
| 21:55 |
Megaf |
benrob0329: what do you do? :) |
| 21:56 |
Calinou |
rubenwardy: oh, this one is much less complex |
| 21:56 |
Calinou |
nore: didn't you hear? the Internet only has students on it /s |
| 21:56 |
nore |
lol :D |
| 21:56 |
Megaf |
Calinou: and almost no girls |
| 21:57 |
Megaf |
I should buy a hat... |
| 21:57 |
* nore |
hands Megaf a hat |
| 21:57 |
Calinou |
buy a hat on the Sam Co. Supply Store |
| 21:57 |
* Calinou |
already has a gibus |
| 21:57 |
* Megaf |
googles |
| 21:57 |
Calinou |
that was a TF2 reference :P |
| 21:58 |
Megaf |
Calinou: crazy enough I found a nice store in the results |
| 21:58 |
Megaf |
they don't sell hats tho |
| 21:59 |
* Megaf |
googles online hat store |
| 21:59 |
Megaf |
hats.com interesting |
| 22:00 |
Megaf |
I could use this https://www.villagehatshop.com/product/all-fedoras/451139-3223/jaxon-hats-pinch-crown-crushable-wool-felt-fedora-hat.html |
| 22:01 |
Megaf |
Red Hat https://www.villagehatshop.com/product/all-fedoras/451139-3193/jaxon-hats-pachuco-crushable-wool-felt-fedora-hat.html |
| 22:01 |
Calinou |
haaaaats |
| 22:02 |
benrob0329 |
Before my phone dies, I'd like to mention that we dont need rotating collision boxes for mobs. MC gets along fine without it |
| 22:02 |
benrob0329 |
We just need better designed mobs :-) |
| 22:03 |
Calinou |
Minecraft doesn't really have collision boxes per se anyway |
| 22:03 |
Calinou |
(for entities) |
| 22:03 |
Calinou |
it just pushes entities outwards |
| 22:03 |
Calinou |
(except players-vs-players now, IIRC) |
| 22:03 |
Calinou |
I remember the time-consuming, but oddly satisfying process of pushing someone slowly to their demise |
| 22:04 |
Calinou |
:^) |
| 22:04 |
Megaf |
hah |
| 22:12 |
Fixer |
Calinou: lol yeas, another reason minetest sucks |
| 22:24 |
|
garywhite joined #minetest-hub |
| 22:25 |
benrob0329 |
Calinou: thats still something :^) |
| 22:25 |
Calinou |
[it's something] |
| 22:25 |
benrob0329 |
MC also doesnt show selection boxes by default |
| 22:26 |
benrob0329 |
Something that drives me crazy |
| 22:27 |
benrob0329 |
(Mostly Sarcasm) "We need to know what thing were hitting" then look at your crosshair |
| 22:27 |
benrob0329 |
Or use an actual glow/highlight/outline effect around the model |
| 22:27 |
rubenwardy |
agreed |
| 22:28 |
rubenwardy |
although it is good to have response to whether the thing is in range, but a selection box is a rather clunky way of doing that |
| 22:38 |
benrob0329 |
rubenwardy: Voxelands solved that with the adaptive crosshair |
| 22:39 |
benrob0329 |
We could literally make 3 settable textures for each state |
| 22:39 |
benrob0329 |
Normal, in range, hit |
| 22:39 |
benrob0329 |
I think MT suffers from what I would like to call "Configuration Overcompensation" |
| 22:40 |
benrob0329 |
Where extra options are added rather than good defaults, along with multiple options where there could be one |
| 22:41 |
benrob0329 |
For example, entity selection boxes are somewhere completely different than node selection boxes, when the two should have been combined (they are linked anyways, the node highlight method changes the entity highlight method) |
| 22:42 |
Fixer |
---------k |
| 22:51 |
benrob0329 |
Fixer: what does -----------k stand for? I'm assuming is supposed to be \*\*\*k |
| 22:51 |
Fixer |
benrob0329: found a bug, but not in minetest |
| 22:51 |
Fixer |
.____. |
| 22:53 |
benrob0329 |
Fixer: you found a bug in the matrix? |
| 22:53 |
Fixer |
no |
| 22:53 |
benrob0329 |
You know that means they're listening, right? |
| 22:58 |
|
halt_ joined #minetest-hub |
| 23:01 |
rubenwardy |
benrob0329, sounds good |
| 23:01 |
rubenwardy |
I'd support that |
| 23:02 |
Megaf |
20:40 <benrob0329> Where extra options are added rather than good defaults, along with multiple options where there could be one |
| 23:02 |
Megaf |
Agreed |
| 23:03 |
rubenwardy |
the problem is that people argue about what the default should be |
| 23:03 |
rubenwardy |
so settings |
| 23:03 |
Megaf |
I should stop saying I will fork Minetest and just fork it... |
| 23:03 |
|
Fixer joined #minetest-hub |
| 23:03 |
Megaf |
And fix all the problems in the fork |
| 23:04 |
red-001 |
trying to set default just ends up with bikesheding |
| 23:04 |
rubenwardy |
^ |
| 23:04 |
rubenwardy |
also, forks will always die |
| 23:04 |
Megaf |
Ubuntu is a fork of Debian, isnt it? |
| 23:05 |
red-001 |
or join the borg/original project |
| 23:05 |
rubenwardy |
that's different, and it's more of a derivative than a fork |
| 23:05 |
Megaf |
Windows NT is a fork from OS/2 |
| 23:05 |
red-001 |
no |
| 23:05 |
red-001 |
it's not |
| 23:05 |
Megaf |
macOS is a fork of OpenSTEP |
| 23:05 |
* Megaf |
hides |
| 23:05 |
Megaf |
Error: Fork not defined |
| 23:05 |
red-001 |
that's like saying a wheel is a fork of a log |
| 23:05 |
rubenwardy |
the most practical way to fix problems is to make a PR |
| 23:06 |
red-001 |
because both are round and can be made from wood |
| 23:18 |
benrob0329 |
Looking like a game is a good default :-) |
| 23:38 |
benrob0329 |
IMHO mapgen should be defined when creating a world, not in minetest.conf |
| 23:38 |
benrob0329 |
Same for world name |
| 23:39 |
benrob0329 |
And what game is used |
| 23:41 |
benrob0329 |
I should just make an issue about simplifying the settings |
