| Time |
Nick |
Message |
| 00:00 |
benrob0329 |
I don't think it makes sense to do it for some of them |
| 00:00 |
benrob0329 |
But being able to do pos = pos + pos would be nice |
| 00:01 |
sofar |
pos:add(pos) ? |
| 00:01 |
benrob0329 |
Is that a thing? |
| 00:01 |
sofar |
it could be |
| 00:02 |
sofar |
I don't know what you have in mind |
| 00:02 |
benrob0329 |
But at that point your still adding functions for every vector |
| 00:02 |
sofar |
+ would be neat, or, any operator, really |
| 00:02 |
benrob0329 |
Thats where metatables come in |
| 00:02 |
sfan5 |
not sure if lua can do operator overloading |
| 00:03 |
benrob0329 |
sfan5: metatable add sub etc |
| 00:03 |
benrob0329 |
Dangit markdown |
| 00:03 |
benrob0329 |
__add __sub |
| 00:03 |
sfan5 |
i see |
| 00:04 |
benrob0329 |
A small feature but could be handy |
| 01:06 |
lisac |
hey, anyone wants to help me test my new mod? |
| 01:06 |
lisac |
sofar? |
| 01:08 |
sofar |
wut |
| 01:08 |
sofar |
mebbe |
| 01:08 |
sofar |
but, it's high traffic rush hour here |
| 01:09 |
sofar |
maybe in a few hours I'll have some time |
| 01:15 |
lisac |
sofar, tomorrow then, going to sleep soon :( |
| 01:23 |
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| 02:48 |
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| 03:05 |
benrob0329 |
sofar: what do you think of having a Vector:new(x, y, z) function? |
| 03:06 |
benrob0329 |
that would set up the table with metatable functions, and pos (setting to nil if an invalid pos was entered) |
| 03:07 |
rubenwardy |
benrob0329, fixing Vector would be very good |
| 03:07 |
benrob0329 |
or, a minetest.Vector:new(x, y, z) |
| 03:07 |
benrob0329 |
rubenwardy: what do you mean by "fix" ? |
| 03:07 |
rubenwardy |
it's not a true class curently |
| 03:08 |
benrob0329 |
rubenwardy: ah, well that is the idea |
| 03:09 |
benrob0329 |
moreso to be able to do pos + pos and such, but being able to do vec:to_string() would be good |
| 03:13 |
rubenwardy |
lua doesn't support operator overloading (afaik) |
| 03:13 |
rubenwardy |
so it would have to be pos:add(pos) |
| 03:13 |
rubenwardy |
or pos:multiply(2) |
| 03:16 |
benrob0329 |
rubenwardy: lua looks for \_\_add() |
| 03:17 |
benrob0329 |
it will use that if it exists |
| 03:17 |
benrob0329 |
same for __sub() __div() __mul etc |
| 03:17 |
rubenwardy |
oh nice |
| 03:17 |
benrob0329 |
rubenwardy: vector.lua does have a vector.new |
| 03:17 |
rubenwardy |
it's wrong though |
| 03:18 |
rubenwardy |
uses . rather than : |
| 03:18 |
benrob0329 |
do we not use vecors for position? |
| 03:18 |
rubenwardy |
and doesn't return a correct meta table iirc |
| 03:18 |
rubenwardy |
no, we use a plain table |
| 03:18 |
benrob0329 |
could/should we use vectors? |
| 03:19 |
benrob0329 |
yes, we should, from the looks of it |
| 03:20 |
benrob0329 |
needs to be a proper metatable though |
| 03:34 |
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| 03:51 |
benrob0329 |
rubenwardy: should this be a breaking change, or should I try to glue in the proper class-like syntax? |
| 03:51 |
benrob0329 |
I think most things don't even use vector.new, but rather raw tables |
| 04:07 |
benrob0329 |
we could probably use a Class metatable to inherit from, but that's more work for another day |
| 05:03 |
benrob0329 |
I think this is going to be more work than it's worth |
| 05:09 |
benrob0329 |
everything is based around vectors only being raw tables, a LOT of code would need to be updated that deals with vector manipuation |
| 05:09 |
benrob0329 |
more than I first though |
| 05:16 |
paramat |
agreed |
| 05:17 |
paramat |
tables are often easier and/or clearer to work with |
| 06:04 |
sofar |
benrob0329: make it a pos = Vector(x, y, z) instead, much more simple |
| 06:07 |
benrob0329 |
sofar: that would break things even more though |
| 06:11 |
sofar |
Vector != vector |
| 06:12 |
benrob0329 |
sofar: ohh |
| 06:12 |
benrob0329 |
You mean, make a new data type that uses the helper functions, but in a "classier" way |
| 06:12 |
benrob0329 |
That might work |
| 06:13 |
benrob0329 |
vector_class.lua |
| 06:43 |
nore |
Hi all |
| 06:44 |
nore |
Note that vector.lua once had this operator overloading, but this was removed for performance reasons |
| 06:45 |
nore |
(using the version that had overloading was at least 5 times slower IIRC due to the use of metatables) |
| 06:49 |
benrob0329 |
nore: ok, so unless that has been fixed it's not worth doing then |
| 06:50 |
nore |
Let me find the issue again |
| 06:51 |
nore |
It was removed in #925 |
| 06:56 |
nore |
Hmm can't find where the performance improvement were said |
| 07:04 |
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| 07:26 |
sofar |
well it's going to be slower anyways |
| 07:26 |
sofar |
all that lua magic has a cost |
| 07:33 |
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| 07:43 |
nerzhul |
sofar, approved |
| 07:44 |
sofar |
hu? |
| 07:45 |
sofar |
the only approval I'm expecting is the county issuing the COO for our house, and that's 4-5 months out, lol |
| 07:45 |
nerzhul |
i approve what you said about lua magic cost :p |
| 07:51 |
sofar |
it may just enable faster prototyping, and be reasonable for someone |
| 07:52 |
nerzhul |
yeah |
| 07:52 |
sofar |
everything has a trade off |
| 07:55 |
benrob0329 |
well, I'm not writing the class tonight anyways, mght happen tomorrow night |
| 07:56 |
nore |
sofar: the problem is that the very existence of metatables slow down all code, even the code that doesn't use the operators but vector.add IIRC |
| 07:56 |
benrob0329 |
I just finished day 2 of http://adventofcode.com/2017/ |
| 07:57 |
nore |
and quite a lot of custom lua mapgens depend on the speed of these operators |
| 07:57 |
benrob0329 |
nore: not if it's a different type |
| 07:57 |
benrob0329 |
local pos = Vector(x, y, z) |
| 07:57 |
benrob0329 |
vs |
| 07:57 |
benrob0329 |
local pos = vector:new(x, y, z) |
| 07:58 |
benrob0329 |
or, vecor.new |
| 07:58 |
nore |
uh |
| 07:58 |
benrob0329 |
it'd be two different table types |
| 07:58 |
nore |
okay |
| 07:58 |
benrob0329 |
one with meta, the other not |
| 07:59 |
benrob0329 |
if speed is still a large factor (which it likely is) then code which needs it can stick with the older type |
| 07:59 |
benrob0329 |
code which wants the nicer api can use the class-like type |
| 08:00 |
benrob0329 |
I say nicer, it's really just more consistent with other data types |
| 08:00 |
benrob0329 |
it's probably not even worth implimenting |
| 08:11 |
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| 08:55 |
CWz |
how do a change the directory where minetest looks for the gcc compiler |
| 09:20 |
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| 09:21 |
lisac |
hey all |
| 09:54 |
Raven262 |
Hi lisac. |
| 09:54 |
Raven262 |
And everyone else. |
| 09:56 |
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| 10:14 |
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| 11:36 |
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| 12:22 |
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| 13:23 |
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| 15:05 |
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| 15:19 |
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| 15:20 |
IhrFussel |
Hello guys |
| 15:32 |
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| 15:33 |
Krock |
o/ IhrFussel |
| 15:42 |
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| 15:50 |
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| 15:50 |
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| 15:56 |
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| 16:06 |
Megaf |
Greetings gentlemen! |
| 16:07 |
Megaf |
And our two lovely ladies. |
| 16:08 |
benrob0329 |
Did you just assume my gender?? |
| 16:08 |
benrob0329 |
Jk, hi Megaf :PP |
| 16:09 |
Megaf |
benrob0329: I did not. I heard you already, I know you are a gentleman. |
| 16:09 |
Krock |
Megaf, there's no girls on the internet. Kids are FBI agents and businessmen are mafia bosses |
| 16:09 |
Megaf |
:P |
| 16:10 |
Megaf |
Krock: those businessmen bastards |
| 16:10 |
Megaf |
I knew it |
| 16:10 |
Megaf |
Krock: there are girls on the internet. Though extremely rare and 99.9% of the time not single. |
| 16:11 |
Megaf |
100% of the ladies on this channel are not single. |
| 16:12 |
Megaf |
I have a big problem. I ran out of space on my server, the host where I host the containers. Not sure what to do. |
| 16:12 |
Calinou |
do you have backups on the server? |
| 16:12 |
Megaf |
Never expected my map.sqlite to grow +5GB |
| 16:12 |
Calinou |
cache files? logs? |
| 16:12 |
Krock |
get more space |
| 16:12 |
Calinou |
downloadmoredisk |
| 16:12 |
Megaf |
Krock: That might be a good ideal. Let me see how much would they charge for that. |
| 16:14 |
Megaf |
I'm actually considering going to a dedicated. |
| 16:14 |
Megaf |
A very cheap one |
| 16:14 |
Megaf |
would have way less CPU performance but would get a lot of space and ram |
| 16:14 |
Krock |
downloadmorewam |
| 16:14 |
Calinou |
what's your budget, Megaf? |
| 16:15 |
Megaf |
Calinou: 10 USD |
| 16:15 |
Calinou |
hmm, not much else than Kimsufi then |
| 16:15 |
Krock |
spotted a kim that isn't jong un |
| 16:16 |
Megaf |
I pay 10 USD for single thread, 20 GB SSD, 1 GB RAM, ultra mind bogling fast network with almost ulimited bandwidht |
| 16:16 |
Megaf |
and ocasional free updades |
| 16:16 |
Megaf |
upgrades* |
| 16:17 |
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| 16:17 |
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| 16:17 |
Megaf |
oh, Linode KVM no longer offers option to get more storage as they did when they were using Xen |
| 16:17 |
Calinou |
Krock: Kim Sufi, dictator of Datacenter |
| 16:18 |
Megaf |
Calinou: Kimsufi is what I'm considering |
| 16:19 |
Megaf |
but again, for that price range I'd get an old Atom, it would be super slow... |
| 16:19 |
Calinou |
yeah |
| 16:19 |
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| 16:19 |
Megaf |
but man, 500 GB of disk |
| 16:19 |
Megaf |
KS-2A Intel Atom N2800 2c/4t 1.86GHz 4GB DDR3 1066 MHZ 1TB 100 Mbps /128 $13.99 |
| 16:20 |
Megaf |
This one is very tempting |
| 16:20 |
Calinou |
consider moving to another database system where you could compress data? |
| 16:20 |
Calinou |
and make sure to purge inactive player files |
| 16:20 |
Megaf |
4 threads, 4 GB and 1 TB |
| 16:20 |
Megaf |
look at that! |
| 16:20 |
Calinou |
yeah, but Atoms are slow |
| 16:20 |
Calinou |
it's not an efficient architecture, and the clock is low |
| 16:20 |
Calinou |
4 slow cores are still slow :) |
| 16:20 |
Calinou |
ah no, 2 slow cores, even |
| 16:21 |
Megaf |
maybe I should just wait a bit more and go to something a bit better, like |
| 16:21 |
Megaf |
KS-3A AMD Opteron 4122 2c/4t 2.2GHz 16GB DDR3 1333MHz 2TB 100 Mbps /128 $19.99 |
| 16:21 |
Krock |
Calinou, compressing the map data will get quite difficult |
| 16:21 |
Calinou |
Opterons aren't very good either IIRC |
| 16:21 |
Calinou |
check some benchmarks (please, not from cpubenchmark) |
| 16:21 |
Krock |
Pentium 1 is the only real shit |
| 16:22 |
Krock |
(in a positive aspect) |
| 16:22 |
Calinou |
some QuakeWorld player I know uses a genuine Pentium 166 MHz machine to play |
| 16:22 |
Calinou |
on a CRT monitor and all |
| 16:23 |
Megaf |
Calinou: The only thing I have that demands a fast CPU is minetestserver |
| 16:23 |
Calinou |
yeah, but still |
| 16:23 |
Calinou |
minetestserver likes fast cores |
| 16:23 |
Krock |
multiple cores instead won't help you much |
| 16:23 |
Megaf |
By the way, although some devs complain of not getting paid and using that as an excuse for not optimal code. We server owners do spend quite a lot of money to host Minetest Servers and even make good marketing about it. |
| 16:24 |
Megaf |
We are Minetest supporters and ambassators and we do deserve more respect from some devs. |
| 16:24 |
Megaf |
Krock: it would help for my web server and my MySQL server |
| 16:24 |
Calinou |
maybe ask for a refund? :) |
| 16:25 |
Megaf |
hah! |
| 16:25 |
Megaf |
If only we could |
| 16:25 |
IhrFussel |
I have a dedi with Opteron quad-core and CPU usage never goes above 15% ... my machine specs aren't the lag source it's the I/O |
| 16:25 |
Calinou |
yes, the I/O will likely be a problem before CPU on an HDD |
| 16:26 |
Megaf |
Any idea if PostgreSQL to store the map would use less disk space? |
| 16:28 |
Krock |
not less space but it'll be faster due more caching |
| 16:28 |
Krock |
..which again requires RAM |
| 16:28 |
IhrFussel |
Megaf, on a dedi HDD space shouldn't be a problem at all... I have 500 GB on a $25/mo |
| 16:29 |
Megaf |
Krock: which again points me to collocation |
| 16:29 |
Megaf |
I mean |
| 16:29 |
Megaf |
dedicated |
| 16:29 |
IhrFussel |
V servers or VPNs are really bad for minetest...I used one before my dedi and the performance depends on OTHERS... it was a mess |
| 16:31 |
IhrFussel |
It only takes 1 customer in the same cluster to overuse "their" cores and all others experienced bad performance |
| 16:35 |
IhrFussel |
At least in the case of "vcores" that's how it works ... not sure if there are VPN without sharing resources |
| 16:44 |
Calinou |
VPNs can be pretty decent for gaming, in rare cases, they can even *decrease* your ping compared to a direct connection, thanks to better peering |
| 16:44 |
Calinou |
some QuakeWorld clients support automatically finding a best route (using a public proxy hosted by servers) to get slightly lower ping to some servers |
| 16:44 |
Calinou |
(this is the only I game I know of which does this :P) |
| 16:45 |
Calinou |
IhrFussel: VPSes without resource sharing exist, they're called VDS (Virtual Dedicated Servers) but are expensive |
| 16:45 |
Calinou |
these allow unlimited CPU usage without risks of account suspension, too |
| 16:50 |
IhrFussel |
Calinou, more expensive than a cheap dedi? Then I wonder what's the point |
| 16:57 |
Calinou |
IhrFussel: indeed |
| 16:58 |
IhrFussel |
Okay maybe the VDS would have somewhat better specs but depending on the monthly price you likely get a better deal with a few more $ dedi |
| 17:03 |
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| 19:52 |
IhrFussel |
rubenwardy, why did you close your PR a bit after opening again? The one about replacing mod channels |
| 19:52 |
IhrFussel |
I mean issue* |
| 19:57 |
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| 20:33 |
Fixer |
not memematic enough |
| 20:41 |
Fixer |
Krock: horrible |
| 20:43 |
Fixer |
Krock: music is especially horrible |
| 20:43 |
Krock |
in general? |
| 20:43 |
Fixer |
0/10 |
| 20:44 |
Krock |
no, I meant like this piece of "art" or all music in general? |
| 20:44 |
Fixer |
"""art""" |
| 20:44 |
Krock |
L"\"art\"" |
| 20:46 |
Fixer |
testing that cache PR |
| 21:12 |
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| 21:14 |
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| 21:40 |
IhrFussel |
I bet most server owners are too lazy to have such a change log xP https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?p=240520#p240520 |
| 21:41 |
Shara |
Lazy? Nope. |
| 21:41 |
Shara |
Just mostly don't see much need. |
| 21:42 |
Fixer |
LazyJ! |
| 21:43 |
Shara |
I put any updates players need to know about on the RC site, but it's usually just a couple a month. |
| 21:43 |
Shara |
Fixer: He's definitely not lazy :) |
| 21:44 |
rubenwardy |
IhrFussel, you should use a spoiler tag |
| 21:47 |
IhrFussel |
Shara, it's always good to have a way as a player to see how the server evolved over time... I only started to post the change log in May even though my server exists for 1.5 years now but I don't have the older logs anymore :/ ... rubenwardy I see no spoiler tags in the editor |
| 21:49 |
Shara |
Fussel, what I put on the site covers that. A player doesn't need a day by day breakdown. |
| 21:49 |
Shara |
And you can just do [spoiler] and [/spoiler] |
| 21:53 |
rubenwardy |
I don't really see it as that useful, tbh |
| 21:53 |
rubenwardy |
just posting updates in the thread is good enough |
| 21:53 |
rubenwardy |
and putting a link to the github repo |
| 21:55 |
paramat |
best not have a forum thread at all, they become unbearable whining, Y U BAN ME!!!!!???? |
| 21:56 |
Shara |
paramat: This is why I don't have one :D |
| 21:56 |
rubenwardy |
paramat, you get the exact behaviour on the server too |
| 21:56 |
Shara |
At least on the server I'm in control |
| 21:56 |
Shara |
On the forum, I have no nice happy delete button :P |
| 21:58 |
Shara |
I just realised my server has way more moderators than the forums... |
| 21:58 |
rubenwardy |
the forum isn't that active |
| 21:59 |
Shara |
Hmm, numbe rof people online info says otherwise :P |
| 21:59 |
Fixer |
paramat: i don't see any particles with your snowdrift on newest git |
| 22:00 |
IhrFussel |
Well to each their own..I find it useful so I can point my players to the thread ... I put the log into spoiler tags now |
| 22:00 |
Shara |
But number of people who speak will certainly be higher in game |
| 22:02 |
IhrFussel |
When my server became less popular (or rather almost dead) I had a HUGE staff problem... cause suddenly there were ~ 15 moderators and ~ 10 helpers for 5-10 active daily players ... now the moderator count went down to 9 I think and helper count to 2 |
| 22:03 |
rubenwardy |
you need to rebrand |
| 22:03 |
paramat |
Fixer it only precipitates some of the time, you can adjust the parameters to make it constant |
| 22:03 |
rubenwardy |
rename the server to "Free Fidgetspinners!!!!" |
| 22:03 |
rubenwardy |
start marketing the server on other servers using bots |
| 22:03 |
Fixer |
paramat: i can hear the rain, but particles are not rendered for some reason |
| 22:03 |
IhrFussel |
I already "renamed" it to IFS cause I thought maybe "IhrFussel's Server" is too long |
| 22:04 |
rubenwardy |
fire your staff |
| 22:04 |
rubenwardy |
and hire Amarza for security |
| 22:04 |
paramat |
ah |
| 22:04 |
sfan5 |
^ |
| 22:04 |
IhrFussel |
I just had a 10 yr old girl this morning claiming that she would be the very best moderator if I gave her a chance |
| 22:04 |
paramat |
snowdrift is coded for 0.4.16 stable, may not be compatible |
| 22:05 |
Fixer |
could be |
| 22:05 |
Fixer |
i think it worked earlier on 0.5.0 |
| 22:07 |
IhrFussel |
Weren't there a few particle PRs recently? At least 1 |
| 22:10 |
Shara |
Too many moderators? No such thing. |
| 22:10 |
Shara |
When they are not moderating, they can just play |
| 22:14 |
rubenwardy |
default_privs = kick,ban,fly,fast,shout,interact |
| 22:14 |
rubenwardy |
^ from the Amarza security manual |
| 22:14 |
Shara |
I was thinking it must be from their words of wisdom. |
| 22:14 |
Amaz |
rubenwardy: You forgot server :P |
| 22:14 |
Shara |
Clearly beyond what I can come up with :( |
| 22:15 |
Amaz |
They need to be able to change settings!! |
| 22:15 |
Amaz |
s/you/they |
| 22:16 |
rubenwardy |
true, and also worldedit_lua |
| 22:16 |
rubenwardy |
make sure to set secure.enable_security to false |
| 22:16 |
Amaz |
Yup! |
| 22:16 |
Amaz |
And while you're at it, give them ssh access to your server. |
| 22:16 |
Shara |
And don't forget to disable your ability to change their passwords. |
| 22:17 |
IhrFussel |
Shara, it looks bad if 3 of 5 players on the server are moderators... or sometimes even all of them |
| 22:17 |
Shara |
Fussel, not really |
| 22:17 |
rubenwardy |
call them Community Leaders or Guardians |
| 22:17 |
rubenwardy |
make sure to add fluffy wings |
| 22:17 |
rubenwardy |
for the extra friendliness |
| 22:18 |
IhrFussel |
I've been asked quite a few times back then if I even have regular players on my server anymore...or if every player is allowed to be staff |
| 22:18 |
Shara |
Maybe your problem is that you make it so public then |
| 22:19 |
Shara |
That and linking privs directly to who you consider to be staff |
| 22:19 |
IhrFussel |
I just give moderators a different name tag, they should be recognizable by players |
| 22:20 |
Shara |
There's argumment for not making them recognisable as well |
| 22:20 |
Amaz |
^ |
| 22:21 |
IhrFussel |
I like to give my players a way to see if there's a moderator in the game right now in case they need help |
| 22:21 |
Shara |
(same reasons it's normal to only auto-op on IRC channels like this one where people need voice, but not to on others.) |
| 22:21 |
IhrFussel |
My moderators *have to* help regular players in important situations |
| 22:21 |
Shara |
You make them sound like employees |
| 22:22 |
IhrFussel |
They are voluntary employees ... they know their job and they accepted it |
| 22:22 |
Shara |
Either way, it isn't the only way to run a team |
| 22:23 |
IhrFussel |
I find it rude of staff to ignore emergency situations such as griefing just because they are not in the mood to help...I even find that disgusting |
| 22:23 |
Shara |
I wouldn't ever tell any of my team members that they "have to" do any particular thing. |
| 22:24 |
Fixer |
paramat: particles are rendered on 0.5.0 build from early october |
| 22:24 |
paramat |
ok |
| 22:24 |
paramat |
some of my code is deprecated |
| 22:24 |
IhrFussel |
If you accept the staff status you accept all its responsibilities... they are not staff members for fun |
| 22:25 |
Fixer |
paramat: so it is mod bug, not engine bug? |
| 22:25 |
IhrFussel |
If there is more than 1 staff member online only 1 needs to react and the others can do their own thing |
| 22:26 |
paramat |
probably mod bug |
| 22:26 |
paramat |
well i'll find out |
| 22:27 |
Shara |
Well, I'd also find telling someone they have to go and help a whiney kid disgusting if they had just come home from a bad day of work and signed in to get away from the stress for a bit. |
| 22:27 |
Shara |
Sure, if someone was spamming chat then I'd expect them to do a quick ban, but certainly not more. |
| 22:28 |
shivajiva |
servers have an ethos, if the moderators don't uphold it they don't deserve the privilege BUT it's not enforceable, choose your staff because they are loyal to the server ethos not you or the job. Only way for it to work without your supervision imo |
| 22:28 |
Shara |
^ |
| 22:29 |
IhrFussel |
Shara, a whiney kid is not an emergency... my server has a /sos command which teleports any active moderator to the player within 5 secs... but abusing the command will be punished ... other than that players can just say "i need help" and they will have to wait patiently until a moderator got time |
| 22:30 |
Fixer |
paramat: my result, renders ok 28841961, does not render a07d2594 |
| 22:30 |
Shara |
Fussel: it's not really the impression you give though. |
| 22:31 |
paramat |
thanks |
| 22:31 |
IhrFussel |
It's not like moderators have to stop what they are doing immediately, players will have to wait if it's something minor (like needing a protection) |
| 22:32 |
paramat |
MT is voluntary, unless you have a legal contract with your mods |
| 22:32 |
Shara |
^ that |
| 22:32 |
IhrFussel |
What I meant is no player should be left alone with a big problem |
| 22:32 |
Shara |
simply don't ever tell people what they have to do |
| 22:32 |
Fixer |
paramat: suspecting engine bug, list of suspects is pretty much ultra short: httpfetch: Enable gzip support / Do not scale texture unless necessary. / Fix Settings tab formspec alignment (#6585) |
| 22:32 |
Shara |
Unless it's to stop being abusive, and then you can just ban them |
| 22:32 |
Fixer |
or not engine bug, but some change |
| 22:32 |
IhrFussel |
That's not how it works... moderators on my server have to fulfill certain conditions else they lose their status... they can still play just not as moderators anymore |
| 22:33 |
IhrFussel |
And I'm pretty sure that's how many servers work |
| 22:33 |
IhrFussel |
I need no moderators if I cannot COUNT on them |
| 22:35 |
shivajiva |
1st requirement is they need a brain, how do you vet your moderators? |
| 22:36 |
paramat |
Fixer do you have bi/tri filtering enabled? |
| 22:36 |
Fixer |
paramat: no |
| 22:37 |
Fixer |
will try with enabled |
| 22:37 |
IhrFussel |
First I watch certain active players who didn't break any rules yet and seem to act mature... if I find such a player I ask them if they'd like to become a helper... if they agree they are helpers (moderator light) until I decide they might fit as a real moderator |
| 22:38 |
Fixer |
paramat: ok, can see particles with enabled filtering, so it is a bug |
| 22:38 |
paramat |
ok https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/6be6fb78a4becc9bf4e999ff5aaa3c2d75fcc428 |
| 22:38 |
Fixer |
paramat: very probably because of this https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/6be6fb78a4becc9bf4e999ff5aaa3c2d75fcc428 |
| 22:38 |
paramat |
heh |
| 22:38 |
Fixer |
yes |
| 22:38 |
paramat |
thanks for testing |
| 22:38 |
shivajiva |
I watched mine for a bit, chatted to them, kept tabs. Never gave it to those that chased it. Simple recipe really. |
| 22:38 |
IhrFussel |
Some have been helpers for months because I was never sure enough to promote them... they always did some things wrong and someday I demoted them again instead |
| 22:38 |
Fixer |
paramat: who will report it? |
| 22:39 |
paramat |
could you if you don't mind? |
| 22:40 |
Fixer |
ok, will do soon |
| 22:40 |
IhrFussel |
I don't need to chat with them directly a lot... I read the chat log every single day (which might be impossible on very busy servers) and remember their acting ... most bad players act bad when no staff is online cause they feel safe |
| 22:41 |
Shara |
Fussel: you just made my argument for why not always identifying staff members can be good. |
| 22:42 |
Shara |
But I simply watch for who is doing all the right things anyway. They end up getting mroe privs, a few at a time, until sooner or later people just start calling them moderators. |
| 22:42 |
IhrFussel |
I see your point there but I solve it by reading what they did while no staff was there... and they will just receive Bad Points (my custom punishment system for those who don't know) as soon as I see something rule breaking |
| 22:44 |
IhrFussel |
The system isn't good for some cases however...like troll players who just join to break a rule and go offline for days again |
| 22:44 |
Shara |
They are welcome to have breaks from moderating and to relax and just play as well though. After all, if it starts to feel just like a job to them, they might leave |
| 22:44 |
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Grandolf joined #minetest-hub |
| 22:45 |
shivajiva |
you're looking for a level of maturity, it's not an easy decision opening your moderators to player abuse along with the responsibility of privileges |
| 22:45 |
IhrFussel |
I don't give my moderators a fixed schedule so it's far from being a real job ... moderators can be offline for up to 7 days without any reason and for 14 days with a reason before they lose their status |
| 22:45 |
Fixer |
yeah, can confirm it is exactly that commit |
| 22:46 |
IhrFussel |
And they can hide their name tag in the game too with a command ... but if a player really needs urgent help then I expect from them to help |
| 22:47 |
Jordach |
IhrFussel, nice job |
| 22:47 |
Jordach |
:^) |
| 22:47 |
shivajiva |
now you're making me smile, lots of rules and a bunch of humans :) |
| 22:50 |
IhrFussel |
Am I really an outlier with my opinion as server owner? Moderators are expected to help players in bad situations ... depending on how urgent it is maybe not at that very moment but a little later |
| 22:50 |
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ThomasMonroe joined #minetest-hub |
| 22:51 |
shivajiva |
yes ofc, I'd expect mine to attend on judgement call |
| 22:51 |
IhrFussel |
I really couldn't watch a player getting griefed and saying "uh nah not now, ask me in an hour" |
| 22:53 |
Shara |
Fussel, it's not about whether they are expected to help. It's the way you state it. |
| 22:53 |
Shara |
Mine don't "have to", because I know there are all kinds of reasons it might not be their priority right now, but I pick people that I know would "choose to" |
| 22:53 |
shivajiva |
the judgement would be are they using 2 accounts and griefing themselves, has the player doing the grief got reason and a few other factors but in principle moderators are there to stop grief and repair it if necessary |
| 22:54 |
shivajiva |
players do some weird shit |
| 22:57 |
shivajiva |
and for balance moderators also :) |
| 23:00 |
shivajiva |
rules don't earn respect, chatting to your mods does though. Teamwork is a key factor and that requires communication about the ethos |
| 23:00 |
Shara |
Yup. |
| 23:01 |
* Jordach |
finds that param from chatcommands is a string even if a number is entered |
| 23:03 |
IhrFussel |
I do chat with my staff a lot ... that's completely different from regular players... I have not the time to chat with every regular player just to see if they suit the "job" well |
| 23:06 |
IhrFussel |
My moderators just *know* what I expect from them and they can expect the exact same from me... even though I work daily on the server code I still join the game several hours per day and act as moderator |
| 23:07 |
Jordach |
IhrFussel, i've got a semi intelligent auto-restart script |
| 23:07 |
Jordach |
https://gist.github.com/Jordach/831b11a2c64e25963e43ae5df7d9be7f |
| 23:07 |
Jordach |
just spotted this inside my terminal |
| 23:08 |
shivajiva |
over the time I've been here I've consciously noted all the stunts players and moderators have pulled, it's quite amusing and yet it sadly reflects the range of behaviour we exhibit collectively. |
| 23:09 |
Jordach |
IhrFussel, https://github.com/Jordach/Solar_Plains/tree/master/mods/auto_maintainence |
| 23:09 |
Jordach |
the shell script is there as the example script i use on the dev server |
| 23:10 |
IhrFussel |
Jordach, looks nice but usually when I shutdown the server it's because I want to test changes I made so a delay would make no sense xP |
| 23:10 |
Jordach |
IhrFussel, it does it when nobody has connected, and only after a player joins and leaves |
| 23:10 |
Jordach |
it's super handy for things like that |
| 23:11 |
IhrFussel |
What if you got 1 player idling for many hours? |
| 23:11 |
Jordach |
you still get that fancy uptime |
| 23:20 |
lisac |
https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=18933 |
| 23:20 |
Jordach |
lisac, OpenSpades :D |
| 23:20 |
lisac |
:) |
| 23:20 |
Jordach |
my GPU maxes it out above 1080p |
| 23:21 |
ThomasMonroe |
hey lisac, shivajiva, Jordach, IhrFussel, Shara |
| 23:21 |
Jordach |
m-m-m-multi ping |
| 23:22 |
lisac |
hey ThomasMonroe |
| 23:22 |
lisac |
thanks for mass-highlight |
| 23:22 |
* Jordach |
goes back to Overwatch |
| 23:22 |
lisac |
now more people can see my post. |
| 23:22 |
ThomasMonroe |
...did I do something wrong? |
| 23:22 |
lisac |
Jordach, why not TF2? |
| 23:22 |
lisac |
No no no |
| 23:22 |
lisac |
it's great |
| 23:22 |
ThomasMonroe |
XD ok |
| 23:22 |
Jordach |
lisac, my 600 hours says so |
| 23:22 |
Shara |
Hi ThomasMonroe |
| 23:22 |
lisac |
600? |
| 23:22 |
Jordach |
TF2 isn't the same game anymore to me |
| 23:22 |
lisac |
Noob. |
| 23:22 |
lisac |
NOOB |
| 23:23 |
lisac |
http://steamcommunity.com/id/ActualPingus |
| 23:23 |
lisac |
1083. |
| 23:23 |
lisac |
to save you a click. :P |
| 23:23 |
Jordach |
>using the FBI soldier |
| 23:23 |
Jordach |
>not EOTL soldier |
| 23:24 |
shivajiva |
Hi ThomasMonroe |
| 23:24 |
lisac |
FBI soldier best soldier |
| 23:24 |
ThomasMonroe |
how have you been doing shivajiva? |
| 23:25 |
shivajiva |
good thanks, bug fixing mostly :) |
| 23:27 |
shivajiva |
mostly of my own creation I might add |
| 23:41 |
ThomasMonroe |
nice |
