IRC log for #minetest-hub, 2017-12-01

Time	Nick	Message
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00:30	garywhite	FYI, a Fire OS bug for Amazon tablets is causing sideloads to not work
00:30	CBugDCoder	MT is availible for the kindle?
00:34	sofar	never tried it myself
00:35	sofar	I've sideloaded kodi, though
00:35	Grandolf	ive used it on kindle fire
00:35	Grandolf	kindle is slow to load
00:38	Wayward_One	Heh, good thing I don't update mine :3
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00:53	rubenwardy	o/
01:04	paramat	\o
01:06	benrob0329	o/
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01:17	shivajiva	\o
01:17	bigfoot547	Hey shivajiva :)
01:17	bigfoot547	Apparently I can't join with an ident of 'root' lel
01:18	shivajiva	heh seems like a reasonable precaution
01:18	bigfoot547	yeah
01:18	bigfoot547	For a time, I had root@* k-lined on my IRCd
01:18	bigfoot547	I decided it was kinda a bad idea
01:18	shivajiva	lol
01:19	bigfoot547	Not my choice to keep people from logging in as root
01:19	bigfoot547	not my bussiness
01:19	bigfoot547	business*
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15:14	tenplus1	hi folks
15:15	Krock	hi tenplus1
15:15	Fixer	tidyman
15:15	tenplus1	hey Krock :)
15:15	tenplus1	hifixer
15:15	tenplus1	how's all ?
15:15	Fixer	tenplus1: so how is that chest investigation doing,
15:15	benrob0329	tenplus1: hey tenplus1
15:15	tenplus1	hi benrob o/
15:15	tenplus1	Fixer: will work on that next day am off, too much happening lately
15:16	benrob0329	Pushed that backend update for the TARDIS a few days ago :P
15:16	tenplus1	nice one, working ok ?
15:16	Wayward_One	hi all
15:16	tenplus1	hey wayward
15:16	Mr_Pardison	sup peeps.
15:17	benrob0329	tenplus1: yees, probably going to push some smaller updates for a bit
15:18	tenplus1	hi pardison
15:18	benrob0329	I keep putting off the interior generation, probably because its a huge undertaking
15:19	tenplus1	dont worry, it'll happen soon enough :D
15:20	benrob0329	So much has to change for it to happen, I've gotta change from a meta to a pos based owner-resolution system
15:20	Mr_Pardison	Wayward_One informed me that MT's files are cross compatible so that means I will still have my technic setup that will show me how much time and how many things it takes to producer fuel for the nuclear reactor.
15:22	CBugDCoder	hi ten
15:23	tenplus1	hi CBug
15:24	Mr_Pardison	afk fire drill (idk why it's happening or if it's real)
15:25	* tenplus1	runs around with foam extinguisher
15:27	* tenplus1	adds blue agave to Xanadu so we can make tequila :D
15:28	CBugDCoder	is is possible to use the biome api for lua generated terrain?
15:28	tenplus1	I thnk they are separate,
15:29	CBugDCoder	ik the biome api is in C++ but i was hoping to be able to use it on athermensia for biomes in diferent realms
15:30	tenplus1	0.5.0 has new cavegen decorations and the floatlands layer with biomes ready to use
15:30	CBugDCoder	something like VM:generate_biomes(placeholder node)
15:31	CBugDCoder	cause i am generating the terain in lua but i want to yse the builtin biome features instead of coding my own biome generator
15:31	CBugDCoder	use^
15:33	tenplus1	is it something you cant do with builtin mapgen ?
15:33	CBugDCoder	yes cause i want to have terain at -10000
15:34	CBugDCoder	i would love to be able to use the default mapgen but idk how to do that :/
15:34	tenplus1	look how Caverealms_lite works
15:34	tenplus1	paramat did say he was adding layering, but dunno how it works yet
15:35	CBugDCoder	ik i did and have a simple biome gen working but the builtin one is much better XD
15:35	tenplus1	we really need the layering feature to have biomes underground as well and in the air
15:36	FourFire	well it looks like my mod wasn't actually crashing Minetest
15:36	tenplus1	hi ff
15:37	FourFire	But I've apparently brought a game engine core bug to the attention of the MCL2 dev
15:37	CBugDCoder	well underground biomes are existant but not underground landscape
15:37	FourFire	hi tenplus1
15:37	tenplus1	what bug?
15:37	Mr_Pardison	tequila!
15:38	Mr_Pardison	finally someone gets that.
15:38	FourFire	tenplus1, https://hastebin.com/yuvizojate.vbs
15:38	tenplus1	eheheh, mind you the blue agave texture is a bit rough, had to draw that in gimp :D
15:38	Mr_Pardison	you got gimped
15:38	tenplus1	oog, that looks a bad 'un
15:39	Mr_Pardison	it's a joke we had back in 9th grade in web design when we had to use it.
15:40	FourFire	Does anyone know whether there's a way to run mod_data:set_string("String", value) once, upon map save or perhaps on a regular timer?
15:40	FourFire	in case of crash
15:41	tenplus1	use globaltimer
15:41	tenplus1	that way you can run it every nth second or so
15:41	FourFire	I currently have it running in ABMs which run multiple times per second, and I think this reduces stability
15:42	FourFire	where is globaltimer documented?
15:42	tenplus1	finding link
15:43	Jordach	trying to rotate a node with facedir
15:43	tenplus1	https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt#L2520
15:43	Jordach	doesn't seem to work when given a proper 3d direction
15:44	Jordach	minetest.dir_to_facedir({x=-1,y= 0,z= 0},true) does not when using set_node param2
15:49	Jordach	even with a get_look_dir() doesn't work inside an on_use
15:51	tenplus1	hi Jordach, am surprised it doesnt work... so long as player obj is supplied it should
15:51	Jordach	it's from on_use (itemstack, user, pointed_thing)
16:04	benrob0329	FourFire: why not just save directly to mod_storage?
16:04	FourFire	benrob0329, I am right now
16:04	tenplus1	what is it that you are saving at regular intervals ff ?
16:05	FourFire	But I want to see if I increase performance and reduce crash rates by dong it this way
16:06	FourFire	tenplus1, 11 variables which update quite frequently
16:06	tenplus1	ah okie
16:06	FourFire	how often depends on things in game, but can be up to once every 0.01 second
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16:09	benrob0329	FourFire: I feel like that's too much probing for sanity's sake
16:09	benrob0329	does it need to be updated that much? wouldn't 1/s be enough?
16:10	FourFire	benrob0329, tell me how many flops does the following function use: mod_data:set_string("String", (tonumber(mod_data:getstring) + 1))
16:11	FourFire	compared to: string = string + 1, mod_data:set_string("String", string)
16:11	FourFire	?
16:11	benrob0329	well, it parses the json file, reads the string, converts is to a number (which can be done with get/set_int) then adds 1, then writes the json file
16:12	FourFire	if I'm running this 100 times per second, I get the feeling it's going to consume some CPU power
16:12	FourFire	Now, what I'm proposing to do is only: string = string + 1
16:12	benrob0329	I mean you can use variables as a buffer, but I feel like the problem is with how often you need to probe this
16:13	FourFire	100 times per second, and then only once every three minutes or so do mod_data:set_string("String", string)
16:13	benrob0329	would it be that bad if it only updated 1/second, with bigger jumps in between updates?
16:13	FourFire	no, every update is an increment of 1
16:14	FourFire	but the writing to sotrage can happen in big jumps, yes
16:14	benrob0329	I suppose I don't understand how energy is used
16:14	FourFire	Like i said, I've got 11 different variables which work in this way, energy is one of them
16:14	FourFire	energy is consumed on a per ABM basis, not as a function of time
16:15	Fixer	upcoming minecraft will have kelp and coral, gotta remove that from minetest_game >_>
16:15	benrob0329	I still feel like this is bad design if it requires constant updating hundreds of times a second, but very well
16:15	benrob0329	Fixer: We were first :^)
16:15	CBugDCoder	we had it first so we can keep it :)
16:15	FourFire	it's my first programming, I'm trying to reduce the burden
16:16	tenplus1	can you paste your current ABM into pastebin and show me ff ?
16:16	FourFire	tenplus1, you can see my entire mod if you like
16:16	tenplus1	okie
16:17	Fixer	"Fish[3], finally, is not only an item, but also a mob. Cod, salmon, puffer fish, clownfish and even more species of tropical fish will be added. Any player will be able to catch a fish in a bucket, and it will not despawn anymore after release, allowing to create aquariums at home."
16:17	CBugDCoder	ten i am working on a hub mod for LoS and am making teleporter pads is playerplus on_walkover good for them or would node timers be better?
16:17	FourFire	tenplus1, https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/369123175583186964/385648764054011915/FourFire_nano_mod_1.0.0.7z
16:19	tenplus1	abm's only run every 1 second or more... 0.1 isnt a valid time
16:20	tenplus1	wow, you have a LOT of abm's
16:21	FourFire	You say that, but ingame I experience the ABMs working faster than 1 per second
16:21	tenplus1	do mr a favour, give me the gist of what this mod actually does
16:21	tenplus1	*me
16:21	FourFire	It's an implementation of a cellular automata in 3 dimensions
16:21	FourFire	The standard node, node_grey spawns rarely in topsoil
16:22	tenplus1	so it grows naturally depending on which node it's near ?
16:22	FourFire	if you mine it, you get one drop, 9 drops become one original node, and nine nodes become a control node
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16:22	FourFire	you can place caol ore or coal blocks next to a node_grey and it will eat the block
16:23	FourFire	spreading for coal ore, not spreading for coalblock
16:23	FourFire	this gives all node_grey a pool of energy which they then consume to spread, meanwhile eating other nodes
16:24	FourFire	Ore nodes, as well as sand, clay & gravel when eaten, add to iterating counters
16:24	tenplus1	and why the counters ? what do they provide to the ore ?
16:24	tenplus1	the node_grey ?
16:24	FourFire	energy is consumed and the contents of those nodes may be regained by placing a chest directly above a control node
16:25	benrob0329	FourFire: would a node timer work? started on place?
16:25	FourFire	metals are "smelted" to bars, and blocks
16:26	FourFire	not because these are global values which just need to be updated upon multiple node actions
16:26	tenplus1	so once a chest is placed on a control node the counters can be used to place items inside /
16:27	FourFire	tenplus1, the counters add up how many ore nodes of a given type have been eaten and "smelted" this is so that the player can get those smelted items back with the chest above the control node
16:27	FourFire	yes, try it out yourself in creative
16:27	FourFire	further, there's a third kind of block, nano_white
16:27	FourFire	this is supposed to be white-hot burning nano
16:28	FourFire	if you set fire to nano_grey it catches on fire and is replaced by nano_white, this rapidly spreads
16:28	tenplus1	so long as it has eatable ores nearby ?
16:29	tenplus1	catch_up = true is going to seriously lag servers
16:29	tenplus1	I'd set this to false
16:29	FourFire	this is the control method nano_white either disappears, or spawns either stone, ore or gravel
16:29	FourFire	That's supposed to be on true for a reason
16:29	tenplus1	if catching up and somehow it has to update 800 nodes at one point in time the server could stall
16:30	FourFire	if your node_grey spread to far, you just set one on fire and they will be "burnt out" relatively wuickly
16:30	FourFire	That
16:30	FourFire	s true
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16:31	tenplus1	hi Darcidride_
16:34	tenplus1	so far it has updated 7000 nodes +
16:34	tenplus1	this mod on a server would be a nightmare
16:35	tenplus1	will look into it and see if it can be optimized
16:46	FourFire	tenplus1, what is the average server hardware in the minetest community?
16:46	sofar	is it abm based?
16:46	FourFire	sofar, link to my mod above if curious
16:46	tenplus1	hi sofar... and yeh it's all abm based
16:46	sofar	well abm's are the worst way to do things CPU wise
16:47	tenplus1	you could merge many of the abm's into a single one...
16:47	sofar	convert it to use node timers instead
16:55	CBugDCoder	tenplus1 i am working on a hub mod for LoS and am making teleporter pads is playerplus on_walkover good for them or would node timers be better?
16:56	tenplus1	if you use playerplus you could easily use on_walkover for tp pads
16:57	CBugDCoder	ok thx :)
16:59	tenplus1	especially if they are placed specifically by server owner and players can only use them, not place them
17:03	CBugDCoder	yes they are going to be i wont even have them in the creative inv
17:03	tenplus1	sweet, on_walkover is perfect then :)
17:04	CBugDCoder	kk and probbly less resource intensive then timers since they will be loaded 99.99% of the time :)
17:04	tenplus1	you could have an admin tool to SET coords inside teleport block which keeps it light so node contains nothing but coords
17:05	CBugDCoder	right actually i will be setting to a game name string but ittle work the same
17:06	tenplus1	:P
17:06	tenplus1	I think on_walkover should be in minetest itself... is too handy not to be
17:06	CBugDCoder	and ill have checkpoiint blocks which will have no data XD
17:07	tenplus1	gotta check it when you've finished... sounds interesting :D
17:07	CBugDCoder	yes on_walkover should be in core
17:07	ThomasMonroe	you could check out the spawn as it is atm
17:07	ThomasMonroe	:P
17:09	tenplus1	:P
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17:20	sofar	on_walkover isn't necessarily more efficient than node timers
17:20	tenplus1	if playerplus is already running then on_walkover is already in use already
17:21	tenplus1	why add nodetimers on top of that... so yes... it is more efficient
17:21	sofar	iterating over all logged in players and doing the lookups for that also has a cost
17:21	tenplus1	playerplus already uses the same node lookup for many things BEFORE checking on_walkover... it's already cached beforehand
17:22	FourFire	Is this the process of software bloat?
17:23	tenplus1	not at all... playerplus is optimized to check once beneath the player every second and uses that single lookup for many things
17:23	FourFire	People with varying levels of knowledge arguing over what is necessary and then slowly but surely conceding to more and more features used only once
17:23	FourFire	or rarely
17:23	sofar	tenplus1: it still derefs minetest.registered_nodes for every pos every player is standing on, every interval
17:24	FourFire	until Excel requirestens of thousands of times more ram and computing power just to do what it did originally?
17:24	benrob0329	tenplus1: is there a playerplus script I can use that will just add on_walkover if the mod is not installed?
17:24	tenplus1	derefs ??? explain sofar
17:24	sofar	https://github.com/tenplus1/playerplus/blob/master/init.lua#L63
17:24	tenplus1	yes ben, it's at the end of the playerplus init.lua
17:26	tenplus1	it runs the registered on_walk_over that has been assigned to THAT particular node... what's wrong with that ?
17:26	sofar	it does a table lookup over the entire list of registered nodes
17:26	sofar	that's not a cheap thing
17:27	sofar	I'm not saying it's a bad thing
17:27	benrob0329	Only do it once, putting the ones that do in a secondary table?
17:27	tenplus1	? that one check is NOT expensive
17:27	sofar	I'm saying that performance wise, it's not the most efficient thing in many cases
17:27	tenplus1	it looks at that exact node table for a function and if found will run it...
17:27	Mr_Pardison	I shall have my other computer (that I normally use) ready for use on or before Monday.
17:28	Mr_Pardison	yay!
17:28	sofar	plus this does give a 1.0 second latency on pressure plates
17:28	sofar	which may be 0.1 second, too, so it's inconsistent for users
17:29	sofar	anyway, I don't really like that method myself, for various reasons
17:29	sofar	nodetimers have other pros and cons
17:29	FourFire	tenplus1, will there be any noticable impact if I make a 64x64 floor of pressureplates in the basement of my castle?
17:30	tenplus1	my point is that if playerplus is already in use and checking what the player stands on for speed changes or other playerplus features, you may as well use it for teleport blocks
17:30	FourFire	because players will do this kind of thing
17:30	tenplus1	ff, no...
17:30	benrob0329	sofar: how would you impliment a pressure plate type thing? (Legitimate question)
17:30	tenplus1	it'll only ever check the current block the player stands on top of with on_walkover... but with nodetimers it'll check every single block's nodetimer
17:31	sofar	depends if I want a low latency one or that isn't a factor
17:31	benrob0329	Low latency is best
17:31	shivajiva	^
17:31	sofar	then it's nodetimers hands down
17:31	tenplus1	hi shiva
17:32	shivajiva	hi tenplus, everyone o/
17:32	Mr_Pardison	o/ shivajiva
17:32	benrob0329	sofar: do we have a player radius checker or something?
17:32	sofar	the core handles nodetimers without escaping to lua unless needed, and entity checks are usually cheap, so there is almost no lookup overhead for things like pressure plate events
17:32	CBugDCoder	hi shivajiva
17:32	sofar	yes, entities can be searched in a region
17:34	sofar	if you have many players, nodetimers will also benefit if they are all in the same region
17:34	sofar	if they're far apart, then the other method may help
17:34	sofar	btw
17:35	shivajiva	interesting, now I have to make one to see the gain
17:35	sofar	if you do a globalstep, and then use a time method to only run every N steps, you're silly and should learn to use minetest.after() instead
17:35	sofar	a globalstep is for doing something every step
17:35	sofar	use minetest.after if you're NOT doing something every step
17:36	shivajiva	in a hub scenario where the pads are all in clusters in close proximity it should be visibly better
17:36	sofar	scale becomes a factor at that point
17:36	benrob0329	What is one step, time wise?
17:36	sofar	30 players in a room with 4 teleport pads
17:37	sofar	do you want 30 checks or 4 checks?
17:37	tenplus1	I already mentioned that that single check is used for many other things in playerplus itself... it's not a wasted check
17:38	sofar	benrob0329: depends on the server tick interval, default 0.09sec
17:40	sofar	tenplus1: that's only relevant if the other parts are used. And the scale still matters as well.
17:40	sofar	but, sure, this isn't a criminal piece of code or anything
17:40	tenplus1	and the playerplus checks are global so other mods can use it to save checks also
17:41	Jordach	https://jordach.net/images/sunvdmuqbsiacqwqa.png
17:41	Jordach	tenplus1, got a proper model for my automation pipes
17:41	tenplus1	ooh nice/// looks good
17:42	tenplus1	what can it do so far ?
17:42	tenplus1	anything new added
17:42	sofar	ugly nodeboxes :)
17:44	Jordach	that's no nodebox
17:44	shivajiva	only issue with that is the dependency I need once I coded with those checks tenplus, I guess that's why you'd like to see it incorporated :)
17:44	Jordach	https://youtu.be/jU5HkFtyBh8
17:44	Jordach	tenplus1, ^
17:44	sofar	does it stick 1px into the brick block?
17:44	tenplus1	shiva: yeah, if it were included in game already and checked nodes around player then it'd be faster and global for mods to make use of
17:45	Jordach	sofar, it also tiles perfectly
17:45	sofar	tenplus1: one issue is that other mod writers may not want 1.0 second interval steps
17:45	sofar	someone else will want better
17:45	sofar	e.g. xdecor has a faster interval for its pressure plates
17:46	tenplus1	true, will make that configurable
17:46	sofar	but that will change all your code to run at a different interval
17:46	sofar	and you want your movement code to be consistent, I assume
17:46	sfan5	Jordach: it looks like you're reinventing buildcraft
17:46	tenplus1	depends on feature,
17:48	tenplus1	since mt engine checks what player is standing on every single step, that's why I wanted it included in engine, then it could work very fast but reduce checks to minimum
17:48	sofar	that would be preferred
17:48	shivajiva	^
17:49	tenplus1	from what I saw in code, it checks from under players feet up to above head... so 4x node checks per tick
17:49	sofar	it may require some creative thinking about the callback though
17:49	tenplus1	store that in a global var, let mods access it and the game will fly along when mods adapt
17:49	sofar	global var?
17:49	sofar	nah
17:49	tenplus1	global table
17:49	sofar	that won't fly
17:50	tenplus1	player[name].standing_on .foot_level .head_level
17:50	tenplus1	would be easy
17:50	sofar	player:get_node_table() you mean
17:50	sofar	stupid to make a global table
17:50	sofar	just make a method to get the data
17:51	sofar	but, even simpler would be to make an API that is event based
17:51	benrob0329	on_walkover(function(entity, pos, dir))
17:51	sofar	either to the player object, or to the node def
17:51	tenplus1	if get_node_table is easier then yes
17:51	tenplus1	so long as mod can read what it needs superquick without having to check itself
17:51	sofar	global tables would be terrible api design
17:53	tenplus1	I used global tables for simplicity to see if it all worked.. but yeah, a player:get_node_table() would be safer
17:53	tenplus1	will write a function for that
17:54	sofar	I'd suspect some pair of on_entity_move_in(pos, object) and on_entity_move_out(pos, object) are the best possible combination
17:54	sofar	I do not think you continuously want to generate events while the entity is at a position and doesn't move
17:55	benrob0329	Global tables are a bad idea for storing information :-)
17:55	sofar	there are only 2 relevant events, so to speak
17:55	tenplus1	sounds like a plan... step on step off functions sound better and more configurable
17:55	tenplus1	eheheh ben, I know... just testing for now
17:55	sofar	so these events can also fire if an item is dropped, for instance
17:56	sofar	which would be really handy for hoppers and stuff
17:56	sofar	or for lava to burn items
17:56	sofar	you could even improve fire spread this way
17:56	sofar	which sounds weird, but think about it
17:56	sofar	instead of ABM's, you could make fire ember entities
17:57	tenplus1	it's a feature we are lacking in mt itself and does need some work to implement properly
17:57	sofar	they randomly shoot out of fire nodes
17:57	tenplus1	been thinking about this for a looooong time
17:57	sofar	then events cause the spread
17:58	benrob0329	sofar: or fire is a node state, which spawns particles :-)
17:58	benrob0329	minetest.register_flame()
17:58	tenplus1	the particle spawner pull to link all spawner particles into 1 draw seems nice
17:59	sofar	hijiri's pr?
18:00	tenplus1	I think it's his, would need to check... but yeah, it improves particle performance
18:00	tenplus1	and we need that too
18:04	tenplus1	I thnk that the ;get_node_list() would improve server performance more than csm would... my opinioni
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18:05	tenplus1	hi nrz
18:10	Jordach	sfan5, notice there;s a few key differences
18:10	sfan5	and those are? :D
18:10	Jordach	mover's can extract and insert certain items intelligently
18:11	Jordach	they know the difference between the fuel slot and src slot
18:11	FourFire	how do I lengthen the interval of minetest.register_globalstep(func(dtime)) to several seconds?
18:11	Jordach	sfan5, second mention, you can put pipes like this: \| \| and have them not honeycomb
18:12	Jordach	or form stupid crossroads
18:12	Jordach	unlike shitty pipeworks, it doesnt need to override things
18:12	tenplus1	use dtime...e.g... define timer before globalstep and 1st line inside have timer = timer + dtime ; if timer < 1.0 then return end ; timer = 0
18:15	tenplus1	so depending on placement of pipe depends which "inventory" it checks... kinda like hoppers ?
18:18	Jordach	like it, but has a special rule
18:19	tenplus1	kewl
18:19	Jordach	movers will not pull from their redside onto a greenside
18:19	Jordach	they can only put into others after it has checked the red side
18:34		Mr_Pardison joined #minetest-hub
18:44	Mr_Pardison	Is a spike in lag normal when a player connects or disconnects from a server normal?
18:44	tenplus1	depends on mods loaded and what it's up to
18:47	Mr_Pardison	3d_armor, 3d_armor_ip, abriglass, abripanes, abritorch, areas, bags, bakedclay, beds, bewarethedark, boats, bones, bucket, builtin_item, castle, caverealms, creative, darklands, default, dmobs, doors, dye, ethereal, farming, fire, flowers, ghost, give_initial_stuff, goblins, handholds, homedecor_light, hopper, inventory_plus, irc, irc_commands, jbo
18:47	Mr_Pardison	n, killme, mapfix, mobs, mobs_animal, mobs_monster, moreplants, nyancat, protector, real_torch, sauth, sban
18:47		CBugDCoder joined #minetest-hub
18:47	Mr_Pardison	those are the list when running the cmd mods irc command.
18:47	Mr_Pardison	these are from d/l.
19:07		ImNotHere joined #minetest-hub
19:08	tenplus1	hi ImNotHere
19:08	Megaf	Hi tenplus1
19:08	tenplus1	o/ :P
19:09	Mr_Pardison	I see that waving (either o/ or \o) has been taken up as a way of greeting someone.
19:09	Mr_Pardison	fancy.
19:09	tenplus1	it's handy :P aaaaaaah pun
19:10	Mr_Pardison	>.<
19:10	Krock	o/ Mr_Pardison
19:10	Mr_Pardison	\o Krock
19:10	tenplus1	hey Krock :P
19:11	Krock	It's been used as a greeting long before this channel was created
19:11	tenplus1	yeh, irc has spawned many ascii alternatives :)
19:11	Krock	2nd hello today, tenplus1
19:11	Mr_Pardison	I took it up.
19:11	Jordach	i find node timers useless compared to a rock solid ABM
19:11	tenplus1	waaaay before emojii
19:11	Jordach	node timers will stop working even with return true
19:11	Jordach	if the server crashes
19:11	Krock	IRC - The Movie
19:12	Jordach	UNO: The Movie
19:12	Jordach	(that's a real thing)
19:12	tenplus1	nooooooooo
19:12	tenplus1	Firefox vs Chrome the movie
19:12	Krock	yeeeeeee
19:12	tenplus1	brb
19:12	Krock	The Ultimative Browser Battle: Firefox vs Chrome vs Shitty Toilet
19:13	sofar	Jordach: that doesn't make sense
19:13	Jordach	sofar, in my testing
19:13	Megaf	Mr_Pardison: o/
19:13	Jordach	any time the server crashed due to bad logic, return true would not self restart
19:13	sofar	Jordach: if the server crashes and doesn't save the mapblock, doesn't it then load the old mapblock?
19:13	Mr_Pardison	\o/
19:13	Jordach	sofar, not even that
19:13	Megaf	\o Jordach
19:13	Jordach	sofar, secondly, it behaved strangely
19:14	Jordach	sometimes it'd refuse to even properly call on_timer() some times
19:14	Jordach	even with print statements meowing with a digit
19:14	sofar	bug number?
19:14	Jordach	not listed
19:14	sofar	then it downt exist
19:14	Mr_Pardison	"mewoing"?
19:14	Jordach	but it's visible in 20a85d7
19:14	sofar	repro code?
19:15	Jordach	crash the server when running a on_timer() call ending in return true
19:15	Jordach	make the timer one second or similar
19:15	Jordach	then crash it inside the on_timer call
19:15	sofar	you mean the on_timer callback causing the crash?
19:15	Jordach	yes
19:15	sofar	ah, yeah, sure
19:15	Jordach	that pisses me off entirely
19:15	Jordach	you could LBM it, but that's unfun
19:15	Jordach	when an ABM does the same thing with profiling
19:16	sofar	but crashing on_timer() is a developer issue
19:16	Jordach	(i've found the abm to even provide a strange mechanic related to how MT loops through x, y and z
19:16	sofar	not a player issue
19:17	Jordach	don't nodetimers survive being unloaded?
19:19	sofar	yes, they do
19:20	Jordach	handily, my logic for item movement only requires pos
19:20	Jordach	the rest is done magically
19:20	Jordach	(and currently hardcoded for certain items due to how slots are handled)
19:21	Jordach	i've found in testing, that minetest.rotate_and_place() is more useful than .rotate_node()
19:21	Jordach	because sneaking shouldn't make it do silly things, especially when that node has a formspec or on_place() action
19:22		Mr_Pardison joined #minetest-hub
19:42		IhrFussel joined #minetest-hub
19:42	tenplus1	hi fussel
19:44	IhrFussel	Hi there... regarding the newest issue on github I already told you that the GUI scaling is just wrong on Android screens ... maybe tablets can display it fine but not cheaper phones with 4" screens ... I suggest you to set the default gui_sclaing on Android to 0.9 or 0.85
19:44		Grandolf joined #minetest-hub
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19:44	IhrFussel	2nd newest*
19:44	tenplus1	hi Grandolf
19:46	IhrFussel	Wait...it's the other way round, menu is too small so larger scaling is needed... but on some devices the menu would be too large to navigate then... I guess we need a resolution check before deciding the scale
20:12	Jordach	rubenwardy, might be time to get rid of device specific pixel scaling and use 1:1 pixel ratio for offsets and 0-100% positioning for anything else
20:12	Jordach	IhrFussel, ^
20:14	tenplus1	noticed this issue earlier: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/6720 ... may have to change builtin_item to using "upright_sprite" to save pixel redraw for every item
20:19	Krock	but rotated items look nicer
20:19	tenplus1	they do, yes... but with so many dropped items in a world and the drawing of every single pixel as a box, it must cause some amazing graphical lag eventually
20:20	Jordach	tenplus1, actually
20:20	Jordach	all you need is a strip rectangle with pixel co-ordinates from say 1,16
20:20	Jordach	then use alpha to hide the real pixels
20:22	Jordach	https://jordach.net/images/kmhbbcgsyktebqfijx.png this node is actually a b3d model, and not a placed item
20:23		paramat joined #minetest-hub
20:23	benrob0329	Jordach: iirc that model was not optimized, it had a lot of inner faces
20:23	tenplus1	hi paramat
20:23	benrob0329	Hi paramat
20:25	benrob0329	Oy, that's painful
20:25	benrob0329	Dropped items..ehh
20:25	Mr-Pardison	shivajiva: issue on d/l about players being able to join with the exact same name as an admin but a different spelling. Have had this issue twice already.
20:25	Mr-Pardison	any idea what it could be?
20:25	tenplus1	I may change to "upright_sprite" for now and see if it makes any improvement on Xanadu, as a test
20:25	Jordach	./privs <player_name>
20:25	Jordach	usually gives them away
20:26	benrob0329	tenplus1: should still rotate
20:26	benrob0329	For that matter, we could change it to be a one-face animated model
20:26	tenplus1	maybe, will check
20:26	benrob0329	Make it bounce up and down :D
20:27	Jordach	benrob0329, fun fact
20:27	Jordach	that can be a quad with a UV containing a row of pixels
20:27	Jordach	a single quad, as UV doesn't give a shit about tri count
20:29	benrob0329	Jordach: what can be
20:29	Jordach	benrob0329, what i mean is, those faces are likely 16x1 pixel quads with two tris instead of 16*2 tris
20:30	Jordach	(eg, 1 quad per pixel instead of 1 quad per row / column)
20:31	benrob0329	I still have no idea what your talking about
20:31	Megaf	Jordach: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ks3ucumilU
20:31	Jordach	benrob0329, you use blender right
20:31	Jordach	make a plane in blender
20:31	Jordach	give that plane a z-transparency or similar with a texture with alpha
20:31	paramat	CBugDCoder you can use core ore and decoration generation in a lua mapgen
20:31	Jordach	no extra faces needed
20:32	paramat	but not biome generation
20:32	benrob0329	Jordach: that doesnt solve the 3D effect
20:32	Jordach	benrob0329, faces will still be inside the model
20:33	Jordach	1 quad per pixel or not
20:33	Jordach	you cannot solve that with how it's generated
20:33	paramat	see https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt#L2824
20:33	benrob0329	Jordach: then you'll need more models for each resolution
20:33	paramat	use those after 'set data' but before 'calc lighting' and 'write to map'
20:33	Jordach	benrob0329, no
20:34	Jordach	for the sides the cover the entire face
20:34	Jordach	eg, from the front
20:34	CBugDCoder	ik i knew that for a while
20:34	Jordach	you just use a single plane with a texture
20:34	benrob0329	Right, the edges though
20:34	Jordach	the insides need to be 1 quad with the UV mapped from edge to edge x image size
20:34	CBugDCoder	but is a function for biomes in the plans?
20:38	tenplus1	nite all o/
20:38	CBugDCoder	night
20:38		tenplus1 left #minetest-hub
20:47	paramat	no plans yet
20:47	paramat	would be nice
20:47	paramat	for walk over, it might be close, see https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/247#issuecomment-332812987
20:55	CBugDCoder	yay cant wait :)
21:04		Mr-Pardison left #minetest-hub
21:08	FourFire	Okay I'm confused, what do I need to do to get this code to run: https://hastebin.com/solidakega.pl
21:09	lisac	hey is there any way to place an item_image in HUD?
21:09	FourFire	the point is to have a recurring timer every 80 seconds which executes all of those commands
21:10	Krock	FourFire, an example: https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/blob/master/mods/player_api/api.lua#L99
21:10	Krock	move your timer inside the new defined function
21:10	Krock	*timer variable
21:10	Krock	lisac, only if you have the HUD ID
21:10		Mr_Pardison joined #minetest-hub
21:11	Krock	create a HUD, if there's none to alter.
21:11	lisac	Krock, is HUD a formspec?
21:11	lisac	that is, can I place formspec elements in HUD?
21:11	Krock	no, it's nothing like a formspec
21:11	Mr_Pardison	limited time, just saying hi.
21:12	lisac	item_image is a formspec element
21:12	lisac	hey Mr_Pardison.
21:12	Krock	it uses a different API to add the images and doesn't have the same features
21:12	Mr_Pardison	Hello lisac
21:12	Krock	lisac, but you can still add images to the HUD
21:12	lisac	item_image makes a 3D image from a node name
21:12	lisac	like, a cobblestone from default:cobble.
21:12	lisac	it's what I'm looking to do :)
21:13	Krock	oh I see
21:13	FourFire	Krock, like this? https://hastebin.com/posebegebu.pl
21:13	Krock	not sure if that exists et
21:13	Krock	*yet
21:13	Krock	FourFire, how do you define a function? just a simple function?
21:14	Krock	let me give you a short example
21:14	Mr_Pardison	shivajiva: respond to my message on Monday when I am back online
21:14	Mr_Pardison	g2g cya
21:14		Mr_Pardison left #minetest-hub
21:14	FourFire	[Spits the result here] = Function(does something to this number)
21:19	lisac	FourFire, https://pastebin.com/P866W2K7
21:20	Krock	https://pastebin.com/bPDUXV8A
21:20	Krock	^ FourFire
21:20	lisac	Krock, a minute too slow. :)
21:20	lisac	though your example is longer.
21:21	Krock	^^
21:22	Krock	corrected a few typos now.. I hope it helps. Otherwise you should really consider to look at the Lua tutorial for once
21:23	Krock	-> http://tylerneylon.com/a/learn-lua/
21:24	Krock	the font is insane big so even blind people can read it
21:27	Aello	Hello! New to the Modding API, what should I do to access the "default.xx" things properly without errors?
21:27	Aello	I was trying "sounds = default.node_sound_leaves_defaults()"
21:27	Aello	Thank you!
21:28	paramat	what was the error message?
21:29	lisac	Aello, did you include 'default' in your depends.txt?
21:29	lisac	I'm also not sure if default stuff is local
21:29	paramat	^
21:30	paramat	anything in 'default.' namespace is global
21:31	Aello	I did not. Sorry for the delay, was checking the debug message, the file is huge. The message was like; "Undeclared global variable "default" accessed at location"
21:32	Aello	I will include it and ask if have any issue, Thank you! :)
21:32	paramat	try depending on default
21:32	Aello	Got it :)
21:34	* Shara	wonders what Aello is working on.
21:34	lisac	Shara, I'd say a Minetest mod. :)
21:34	Shara	My wondering is more specific. :)
21:35	* Aello	hides. Secret! Also I am behind the schedule. :)
21:36	Shara	Hehehe :)
21:37	* Aello	bows. :)
21:37	Shara	No worries.
21:37	Krock	Shara, you broke the chain of :)
21:38	Shara	To make up for it :) :)
21:38	Shara	Does that help? :)
21:38	benrob0329	Always :)
21:38	Shara	Yay :)
21:57	paramat	:)
21:59	Raven262	Hello everyone :)
21:59	Raven262	Its hard keeping this smile up, but eh :)
21:59	Shara	Has to be done now :)
22:02	benrob0329	Krock: dang, I never realized how flexible Lua tables are :)
22:02	benrob0329	They open up some interesting possibilities :)
22:02	benrob0329	Like metatables :)
22:04	Krock	you'll need metatables if you plan to add something like objects or classes
22:04	Raven262	He did it^
22:04	Raven262	You broke the chain, Krock.
22:04	benrob0329	Do we have metatables set up for pos + pos ?
22:04	Krock	damn it
22:04	benrob0329	Because adding positions without destructing the tables would be really useful
22:05	Krock	no, as vectors are simply a table
22:05	benrob0329	Dangit
22:05	benrob0329	Would be useful though
22:05	Krock	indeed, same for pos == pos or pos * n
22:06	Shara	Krock: now we will all be :(
22:06	benrob0329	Krock: user-made vectors would need to be setmetatable-ed to work by themselves
22:07	benrob0329	Against a MT created vector though it would be fine (metatables call by first argument)
22:08		sniper338 joined #minetest-hub
22:12		sniper338 joined #minetest-hub
22:18		Megaf joined #minetest-hub
22:20	Megaf	Good to be back on Quassel
22:20	Megaf	Thanks Raspberry Pi for hosting my client
22:20		sniper338 joined #minetest-hub
22:21	* Megaf	expects thumbs up from Calinou
22:22	Calinou	thumbs north-west-up
22:23	Calinou	pitch 87Â°, yaw 314Â°
22:23	* Calinou	hides
22:24	* Megaf	will accept that
22:25	benrob0329	Krock: I'm having a lot of "Oohhh!" Moments while reading this :P
22:26	benrob0329	Lua is a lot cooler than I thought 5 minutes ago
22:26	Krock	except that it starts with 1
22:26	benrob0329	Meh
22:26	benrob0329	I can get used to that
22:27	benrob0329	Just like I can get used to tables as being the be-all end-all of data types
22:28	benrob0329	I mean its like someone took Lisp's concept of "Everything is a list" but made it an array and ran into the county with it
22:30	Krock	Lisp without the parentheses
22:31	benrob0329	Just curly brackets :^)
22:46	Megaf	This is a test
22:46	Megaf	Test ........Ë†
22:47	benrob0329	Test success?
23:04	paramat	sigh
23:06	rubenwardy	paramat, I wonder if dsohler has internal conflict, given he hates assholery
23:06	rubenwardy	oh geez, comma gore
23:06	rubenwardy	oh, geez comma, gore,
23:09	paramat	heh
23:09	paramat	maybe best to not delete his comments so we have evidence
23:09	rubenwardy	yeah
23:09	rubenwardy	I deleted them before as they were offtopic and taking up the chat
23:10	rubenwardy	and to try and dissuade response from other people
23:10	rubenwardy	but that worked out swimmingly
23:10	rubenwardy	plus they were plain rude and unnecessary
23:11	paramat	could always lock topic and start a duplicate, keeps evidence
23:11	rubenwardy	nah
23:12	paramat	indeed might not help much
23:14	Fixer	swimmingly?
23:15	paramat	as in a sarcastic 'badly'
23:15	paramat	or rather
23:15	paramat	a sarcastic 'smoothly'
23:15	Fixer	Definition of swimmingly: very well : splendidly the event went swimmingly
23:17	Fixer	Wuzzy has nice ability to find lots of bugs
23:17	Fixer	including weird ones
23:17	Fixer	like dropped hands... wtf
23:17	paramat	random hands happened to me in 0.4.3, funny bug
23:19	paramat	i would rejoin a world and a dozen hands would appear in mid air nearby and fall
23:21	Fixer	daaaaaaaaaamn, vanessas servers are on 0.4.16 that means i will not test that cache pr in my cases
23:22	Fixer	6 minutes wasted, but maybe patch will apply to 0.4.16, doubt it
23:29	Megaf	watching Formula E https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGq2lFEpZiM
23:29	Megaf	Live ^
23:29	Megaf	benrob0329: positive, test good
23:33	Fixer	SimCity Spectrum 48k
23:33	Fixer	:O
23:52	benrob0329	Krock: would vector metatable things go in builtin or in the engine itself?
23:55	sofar	unless it requires some C++, it would be in builtin
23:57	benrob0329	sofar: I wouldn't think so, but i'm not sure how one would set metatable stuffs for every vector to come out of the api
23:58	sofar	vector already is entirely lua
23:59	benrob0329	Ok, this might be somehing I can tackle then
23:59	sofar	does it make sense to do for every vector? it gets used a lot

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