Time  Nick         Message
00:30 garywhite    FYI, a Fire OS bug for Amazon tablets is causing sideloads to not work
00:30 CBugDCoder   MT is availible for the kindle?
00:34 sofar        never tried it myself
00:35 sofar        I've sideloaded kodi, though
00:35 Grandolf     ive used it on kindle fire
00:35 Grandolf     kindle is slow to load
00:38 Wayward_One  Heh, good thing I don't update mine :3
00:53 rubenwardy   o/
01:04 paramat      \o
01:06 benrob0329   o/
01:17 shivajiva    \o
01:17 bigfoot547   Hey shivajiva :)
01:17 bigfoot547   Apparently I can't join with an ident of 'root' lel
01:18 shivajiva    heh seems like a reasonable precaution
01:18 bigfoot547   yeah
01:18 bigfoot547   For a time, I had root@* k-lined on my IRCd
01:18 bigfoot547   I decided it was kinda a bad idea
01:18 shivajiva    lol
01:19 bigfoot547   Not my choice to keep people from logging in as root
01:19 bigfoot547   not my bussiness
01:19 bigfoot547   business*
15:14 tenplus1     hi folks
15:15 Krock        hi tenplus1
15:15 Fixer        tidyman
15:15 tenplus1     hey Krock :)
15:15 tenplus1     hifixer
15:15 tenplus1     how's all ?
15:15 Fixer        tenplus1: so how is that chest investigation doing,
15:15 benrob0329   tenplus1: hey tenplus1
15:15 tenplus1     hi benrob o/
15:15 tenplus1     Fixer: will work on that next day am off, too much happening lately
15:16 benrob0329   Pushed that backend update for the TARDIS a few days ago :P
15:16 tenplus1     nice one, working ok ?
15:16 Wayward_One  hi all
15:16 tenplus1     hey wayward
15:16 Mr_Pardison  sup peeps.
15:17 benrob0329   tenplus1: yees, probably going to push some smaller updates for a bit
15:18 tenplus1     hi pardison
15:18 benrob0329   I keep putting off the interior generation, probably because its a huge undertaking
15:19 tenplus1     dont worry, it'll happen soon enough :D
15:20 benrob0329   So much has to change for it to happen, I've gotta change from a meta to a pos based owner-resolution system
15:20 Mr_Pardison  Wayward_One informed me that MT's files are cross compatible so that means I will still have my technic setup that will show me how much time and how many things it takes to producer fuel for the nuclear reactor.
15:22 CBugDCoder   hi ten
15:23 tenplus1     hi CBug
15:24 Mr_Pardison  afk fire drill (idk why it's happening or if it's real)
15:25 * tenplus1   runs around with foam extinguisher
15:27 * tenplus1   adds blue agave to Xanadu so we can make tequila :D
15:28 CBugDCoder   is is possible to use the biome api for lua generated terrain?
15:28 tenplus1     I thnk they are separate,
15:29 CBugDCoder   ik the biome api is in C++ but i was hoping to be able to use it on athermensia for biomes in diferent realms
15:30 tenplus1     0.5.0 has new cavegen decorations and the floatlands layer with biomes ready to use
15:30 CBugDCoder   something like VM:generate_biomes(placeholder node)
15:31 CBugDCoder   cause i am generating the terain in lua but i want to yse the builtin biome features instead of coding my own biome generator
15:31 CBugDCoder   use^
15:33 tenplus1     is it something you cant do with builtin mapgen ?
15:33 CBugDCoder   yes cause i want to have terain at -10000
15:34 CBugDCoder   i would love to be able to use the default mapgen but idk how to do that :/
15:34 tenplus1     look how Caverealms_lite works
15:34 tenplus1     paramat did say he was adding layering, but dunno how it works yet
15:35 CBugDCoder   ik i did and have a simple biome gen working but the builtin one is much better XD
15:35 tenplus1     we really need the layering feature to have biomes underground as well and in the air
15:36 FourFire     well it looks like my mod wasn't actually crashing Minetest
15:36 tenplus1     hi ff
15:37 FourFire     But I've apparently brought a game engine core bug to the attention of the MCL2 dev
15:37 CBugDCoder   well underground biomes are existant but not underground landscape
15:37 FourFire     hi tenplus1
15:37 tenplus1     what bug?
15:37 Mr_Pardison  tequila!
15:38 Mr_Pardison  finally  someone gets that.
15:38 FourFire     tenplus1, https://hastebin.com/yuvizojate.vbs
15:38 tenplus1     eheheh, mind you the blue agave texture is a bit rough, had to draw that in gimp :D
15:38 Mr_Pardison  you got gimped
15:38 tenplus1     oog, that looks a bad 'un
15:39 Mr_Pardison  it's a joke we had back in 9th grade in web design when we had to use it.
15:40 FourFire     Does anyone know whether there's a way to run mod_data:set_string("String", value) once, upon map save or perhaps on a regular timer?
15:40 FourFire     in case of crash
15:41 tenplus1     use globaltimer
15:41 tenplus1     that way you can run it every nth second or so
15:41 FourFire     I currently have it running in ABMs which run multiple times per second, and I think this reduces stability
15:42 FourFire     where is globaltimer documented?
15:42 tenplus1     finding link
15:43 Jordach      trying to rotate a node with facedir
15:43 tenplus1     https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt#L2520
15:43 Jordach      doesn't seem to work when given a proper 3d direction
15:44 Jordach      minetest.dir_to_facedir({x=-1,y= 0,z= 0},true) does not when using set_node param2
15:49 Jordach      even with a get_look_dir() doesn't work inside an on_use
15:51 tenplus1     hi Jordach, am surprised it doesnt work... so long as player obj is supplied it should
15:51 Jordach      it's from on_use (itemstack, user, pointed_thing)
16:04 benrob0329   FourFire: why not just save directly to mod_storage?
16:04 FourFire     benrob0329, I am right now
16:04 tenplus1     what is it that you are saving at regular intervals ff ?
16:05 FourFire     But I want to see if I increase performance and reduce crash rates by dong it this way
16:06 FourFire     tenplus1, 11 variables which update quite frequently
16:06 tenplus1     ah okie
16:06 FourFire     how often depends on things in game, but can be up to once every 0.01 second
16:09 benrob0329   FourFire: I feel like that's too much probing for sanity's sake
16:09 benrob0329   does it need to be updated that much? wouldn't 1/s be enough?
16:10 FourFire     benrob0329, tell me how many flops does the following function use: mod_data:set_string("String", (tonumber(mod_data:getstring) + 1))
16:11 FourFire     compared to: string = string + 1, mod_data:set_string("String", string)
16:11 FourFire     ?
16:11 benrob0329   well, it parses the json file, reads the string, converts is to a number (which can be done with get/set_int) then adds 1, then writes the json file
16:12 FourFire     if I'm running this 100 times per second, I get the feeling it's going to consume some CPU power
16:12 FourFire     Now, what I'm proposing to do is only: string = string + 1
16:12 benrob0329   I mean you can use variables as a buffer, but I feel like the problem is with how often you need to probe this
16:13 FourFire     100 times per second, and then only once every three minutes or so do mod_data:set_string("String", string)
16:13 benrob0329   would it be that bad if it only updated 1/second, with bigger jumps in between updates?
16:13 FourFire     no, every update is an increment of 1
16:14 FourFire     but the writing to sotrage can happen in big jumps, yes
16:14 benrob0329   I suppose I don't understand how energy is used
16:14 FourFire     Like i said, I've got 11 different variables which work in this way, energy is one of them
16:14 FourFire     energy is consumed on a per ABM basis, not as a function of time
16:15 Fixer        upcoming minecraft will have kelp and coral, gotta remove that from minetest_game >_>
16:15 benrob0329   I still feel like this is bad design if it requires constant updating hundreds of times a second, but very well
16:15 benrob0329   Fixer: We were first :^)
16:15 CBugDCoder   we had it first so we can keep it :)
16:15 FourFire     it's my first programming, I'm trying to reduce the burden
16:16 tenplus1     can you paste your current ABM into pastebin and show me ff ?
16:16 FourFire     tenplus1, you can see my entire mod if you like
16:16 tenplus1     okie
16:17 Fixer        "Fish[3], finally, is not only an item, but also a mob. Cod, salmon, puffer fish, clownfish and even more species of tropical fish will be added. Any player will be able to catch a fish in a bucket, and it will not despawn anymore after release, allowing to create aquariums at home."
16:17 CBugDCoder   ten i am working on a hub mod for LoS and am making teleporter pads is playerplus on_walkover good for them or would node timers be better?
16:17 FourFire     tenplus1, https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/369123175583186964/385648764054011915/FourFire_nano_mod_1.0.0.7z
16:19 tenplus1     abm's only run every 1 second or more... 0.1 isnt a valid time
16:20 tenplus1     wow, you have a LOT of abm's
16:21 FourFire     You say that, but ingame I experience the ABMs working faster than 1 per second
16:21 tenplus1     do mr a favour, give me the gist of what this mod actually does
16:21 tenplus1     *me
16:21 FourFire     It's an implementation of a cellular automata in 3 dimensions
16:21 FourFire     The standard node, node_grey spawns rarely in topsoil
16:22 tenplus1     so it grows naturally depending on which node it's near ?
16:22 FourFire     if you mine it, you get one drop, 9 drops become one original node, and nine nodes become a control node
16:22 FourFire     you can place caol ore or coal blocks next to a node_grey and it will eat the block
16:23 FourFire     spreading for coal ore, not spreading for coalblock
16:23 FourFire     this gives all node_grey a pool of energy which they then consume to spread, meanwhile eating other nodes
16:24 FourFire     Ore nodes, as well as sand, clay & gravel when eaten, add to iterating counters
16:24 tenplus1     and why the counters ? what do they provide to the ore ?
16:24 tenplus1     the node_grey ?
16:24 FourFire     energy is consumed and the contents of those nodes may be regained by placing a chest directly above a control node
16:25 benrob0329   FourFire: would a node timer work? started on place?
16:25 FourFire     metals are "smelted" to bars, and blocks
16:26 FourFire     not because these are global values which just need to be updated upon multiple node actions
16:26 tenplus1     so once a chest is placed on a control node the counters can be used to place items inside /
16:27 FourFire     tenplus1, the counters add up how many ore nodes of a given type have been eaten and "smelted" this is so that the player can get those smelted items back with the chest above the control node
16:27 FourFire     yes, try it out yourself in creative
16:27 FourFire     further, there's a third kind of block, nano_white
16:27 FourFire     this is supposed to be white-hot burning nano
16:28 FourFire     if you set fire to nano_grey it catches on fire and is replaced by nano_white, this rapidly spreads
16:28 tenplus1     so long as it has eatable ores nearby ?
16:29 tenplus1     catch_up = true is going to seriously lag servers
16:29 tenplus1     I'd set this to false
16:29 FourFire     this is the control method nano_white either disappears, or spawns either stone, ore or gravel
16:29 FourFire     That's supposed to be on true for a reason
16:29 tenplus1     if catching up and somehow it has to update 800 nodes at one point in time the server could stall
16:30 FourFire     if your node_grey spread to far, you just set one on fire and they will be "burnt out" relatively wuickly
16:30 FourFire     That
16:30 FourFire     s true
16:31 tenplus1     hi Darcidride_
16:34 tenplus1     so far it has updated 7000 nodes +
16:34 tenplus1     this mod on a server would be a nightmare
16:35 tenplus1     will look into it and see if it can be optimized
16:46 FourFire     tenplus1, what is the average server hardware in the minetest community?
16:46 sofar        is it abm based?
16:46 FourFire     sofar, link to my mod above if curious
16:46 tenplus1     hi sofar... and yeh it's all abm based
16:46 sofar        well abm's are the worst way to do things CPU wise
16:47 tenplus1     you could merge many of the abm's into a single one...
16:47 sofar        convert it to use node timers instead
16:55 CBugDCoder   tenplus1 i am working on a hub mod for LoS and am making teleporter pads is playerplus on_walkover good for them or would node timers be better?
16:56 tenplus1     if you use playerplus you could easily use on_walkover for tp pads
16:57 CBugDCoder   ok thx :)
16:59 tenplus1     especially if they are placed specifically by server owner and players can only use them, not place them
17:03 CBugDCoder   yes they are going to be i wont even have them in the creative inv
17:03 tenplus1     sweet, on_walkover is perfect then :)
17:04 CBugDCoder   kk and probbly less resource intensive then timers since they will be loaded 99.99% of the time :)
17:04 tenplus1     you could have an admin tool to SET coords inside teleport block which keeps it light so node contains nothing but coords
17:05 CBugDCoder   right actually i will be setting to a game name string but ittle work the same
17:06 tenplus1     :P
17:06 tenplus1     I think on_walkover should be in minetest itself... is too handy not to be
17:06 CBugDCoder   and ill have checkpoiint blocks which will have no data XD
17:07 tenplus1     gotta check it when you've finished... sounds interesting :D
17:07 CBugDCoder   yes on_walkover should be in core
17:07 ThomasMonroe you could check out the spawn as it is atm
17:07 ThomasMonroe :P
17:09 tenplus1     :P
17:20 sofar        on_walkover isn't necessarily more efficient than node timers
17:20 tenplus1     if playerplus is already running then on_walkover is already in use already
17:21 tenplus1     why add nodetimers on top of that... so yes... it is more efficient
17:21 sofar        iterating over all logged in players and doing the lookups for that also has a cost
17:21 tenplus1     playerplus already uses the same node lookup for many things BEFORE checking on_walkover...  it's already cached beforehand
17:22 FourFire     Is this the process of software bloat?
17:23 tenplus1     not at all... playerplus is optimized to check once beneath the player every second and uses that single lookup for many things
17:23 FourFire     People with varying levels of knowledge arguing over what is necessary and then slowly but surely conceding to more and more features used only once
17:23 FourFire     or rarely
17:23 sofar        tenplus1: it still derefs minetest.registered_nodes for every pos every player is standing on, every interval
17:24 FourFire     until Excel requirestens of thousands of times more ram and computing power just to do what it did originally?
17:24 benrob0329   tenplus1: is there a playerplus script I can use that will just add on_walkover if the mod is not installed?
17:24 tenplus1     derefs ??? explain sofar
17:24 sofar        https://github.com/tenplus1/playerplus/blob/master/init.lua#L63
17:24 tenplus1     yes ben, it's at the end of the playerplus init.lua
17:26 tenplus1     it runs the registered on_walk_over that has been assigned to THAT particular node... what's wrong with that ?
17:26 sofar        it does a table lookup over the entire list of registered nodes
17:26 sofar        that's not a cheap thing
17:27 sofar        I'm not saying it's a bad thing
17:27 benrob0329   Only do it once, putting the ones that do in a secondary table?
17:27 tenplus1     ? that one check is NOT expensive
17:27 sofar        I'm saying that performance wise, it's not the most efficient thing in many cases
17:27 tenplus1     it looks at that exact node table for a function and if found will run it...
17:27 Mr_Pardison  I shall have my other computer (that I normally use) ready for use on or before Monday.
17:28 Mr_Pardison  yay!
17:28 sofar        plus this does give a 1.0 second latency on pressure plates
17:28 sofar        which may be 0.1 second, too, so it's inconsistent for users
17:29 sofar        anyway, I don't really like that method myself, for various reasons
17:29 sofar        nodetimers have other pros and cons
17:29 FourFire     tenplus1, will there be any noticable impact if I make a 64x64 floor of pressureplates in the basement of my castle?
17:30 tenplus1     my point is that if playerplus is already in use and checking what the player stands on for speed changes or other playerplus features, you may as well use it for teleport blocks
17:30 FourFire     because players will do this kind of thing
17:30 tenplus1     ff, no...
17:30 benrob0329   sofar: how would you impliment a pressure plate type thing? (Legitimate question)
17:30 tenplus1     it'll only ever check the current block the player stands on top of with on_walkover... but with nodetimers it'll check every single block's nodetimer
17:31 sofar        depends if I want a low latency one or that isn't a factor
17:31 benrob0329   Low latency is best
17:31 shivajiva    ^
17:31 sofar        then it's nodetimers hands down
17:31 tenplus1     hi shiva
17:32 shivajiva    hi tenplus, everyone o/
17:32 Mr_Pardison  o/ shivajiva
17:32 benrob0329   sofar: do we have a player radius checker or something?
17:32 sofar        the core handles nodetimers without escaping to lua unless needed, and entity checks are usually cheap, so there is almost no lookup overhead for things like pressure plate events
17:32 CBugDCoder   hi shivajiva
17:32 sofar        yes, entities can be searched in a region
17:34 sofar        if you have many players, nodetimers will also benefit if they are all in the same region
17:34 sofar        if they're far apart, then the other method may help
17:34 sofar        btw
17:35 shivajiva    interesting, now I have to make one to see the gain
17:35 sofar        if you do a globalstep, and then use a time method to only run every N steps, you're silly and should learn to use minetest.after() instead
17:35 sofar        a globalstep is for doing something every step
17:35 sofar        use minetest.after if you're NOT doing something every step
17:36 shivajiva    in a hub scenario where the pads are all in clusters in close proximity it should be visibly better
17:36 sofar        scale becomes a factor at that point
17:36 benrob0329   What is one step, time wise?
17:36 sofar        30 players in a room with 4 teleport pads
17:37 sofar        do you want 30 checks or 4 checks?
17:37 tenplus1     I already mentioned that that single check is used for many other things in playerplus itself... it's not a wasted check
17:38 sofar        benrob0329: depends on the server tick interval, default 0.09sec
17:40 sofar        tenplus1: that's only relevant if the other parts are used. And the scale still matters as well.
17:40 sofar        but, sure, this isn't a criminal piece of code or anything
17:40 tenplus1     and the playerplus checks are global so other mods can use it to save checks also
17:41 Jordach      https://jordach.net/images/sunvdmuqbsiacqwqa.png
17:41 Jordach      tenplus1, got a proper model for my automation pipes
17:41 tenplus1     ooh nice/// looks good
17:42 tenplus1     what can it do so far ?
17:42 tenplus1     anything new added
17:42 sofar        ugly nodeboxes :)
17:44 Jordach      that's no nodebox
17:44 shivajiva    only issue with that is the dependency I need once I coded with those checks tenplus, I guess that's why you'd like to see it incorporated :)
17:44 Jordach      https://youtu.be/jU5HkFtyBh8
17:44 Jordach      tenplus1, ^
17:44 sofar        does it stick 1px into the brick block?
17:44 tenplus1     shiva: yeah, if it were included in game already and checked nodes around player then it'd be faster and global for mods to make use of
17:45 Jordach      sofar, it also tiles perfectly
17:45 sofar        tenplus1: one issue is that other mod writers may not want 1.0 second interval steps
17:45 sofar        someone else will want better
17:45 sofar        e.g. xdecor has a faster interval for its pressure plates
17:46 tenplus1     true, will make that configurable
17:46 sofar        but that will change all your code to run at a different interval
17:46 sofar        and you want your movement code to be consistent, I assume
17:46 sfan5        Jordach: it looks like you're reinventing buildcraft
17:46 tenplus1     depends on feature,
17:48 tenplus1     since mt engine checks what player is standing on every single step, that's why I wanted it included in engine, then it could work very fast but reduce checks to minimum
17:48 sofar        that would be preferred
17:48 shivajiva    ^
17:49 tenplus1     from what I saw in code, it checks from under players feet up to above head... so 4x node checks per tick
17:49 sofar        it may require some creative thinking about the callback though
17:49 tenplus1     store that in a global var, let mods access it and the game will fly along when mods adapt
17:49 sofar        global var?
17:49 sofar        nah
17:49 tenplus1     global table
17:49 sofar        that won't fly
17:50 tenplus1     player[name].standing_on   .foot_level   .head_level
17:50 tenplus1     would be easy
17:50 sofar        player:get_node_table() you mean
17:50 sofar        stupid to make a global table
17:50 sofar        just make a method to get the data
17:51 sofar        but, even simpler would be to make an API that is event based
17:51 benrob0329   on_walkover(function(entity, pos, dir))
17:51 sofar        either to the player object, or to the node def
17:51 tenplus1     if get_node_table is easier then yes
17:51 tenplus1     so long as mod can read what it needs superquick without having to check itself
17:51 sofar        global tables would be terrible api design
17:53 tenplus1     I used global tables for simplicity to see if it all worked.. but yeah, a player:get_node_table() would be safer
17:53 tenplus1     will write a function for that
17:54 sofar        I'd suspect some pair of on_entity_move_in(pos, object) and on_entity_move_out(pos, object) are the best possible combination
17:54 sofar        I do not think you continuously want to generate events while the entity is at a position and doesn't move
17:55 benrob0329   Global tables are a bad idea for storing information :-)
17:55 sofar        there are only 2 relevant events, so to speak
17:55 tenplus1     sounds like a plan... step on step off functions sound better and more configurable
17:55 tenplus1     eheheh ben, I know... just testing for now
17:55 sofar        so these events can also fire if an item is dropped, for instance
17:56 sofar        which would be really handy for hoppers and stuff
17:56 sofar        or for lava to burn items
17:56 sofar        you could even improve fire spread this way
17:56 sofar        which sounds weird, but think about it
17:56 sofar        instead of ABM's, you could make fire ember entities
17:57 tenplus1     it's a feature we are lacking in mt itself and does need some work to  implement properly
17:57 sofar        they randomly shoot out of fire nodes
17:57 tenplus1     been thinking about this for a looooong time
17:57 sofar        then events cause the spread
17:58 benrob0329   sofar: or fire is a node state, which spawns particles :-)
17:58 benrob0329   minetest.register_flame()
17:58 tenplus1     the particle spawner pull to link all spawner particles into 1 draw seems nice
17:59 sofar        hijiri's pr?
18:00 tenplus1     I think it's his, would need to check... but yeah, it improves particle performance
18:00 tenplus1     and we need that too
18:04 tenplus1     I thnk that the ;get_node_list() would improve server performance more than csm would... my opinioni
18:05 tenplus1     hi nrz
18:10 Jordach      sfan5, notice there;s a few key differences
18:10 sfan5        and those are? :D
18:10 Jordach      mover's can extract and insert certain items intelligently
18:11 Jordach      they know the difference between the fuel slot and src slot
18:11 FourFire     how do I lengthen the interval of minetest.register_globalstep(func(dtime)) to several seconds?
18:11 Jordach      sfan5, second mention, you can put pipes like this: | | and have them not honeycomb
18:12 Jordach      or form stupid crossroads
18:12 Jordach      unlike shitty pipeworks, it doesnt need to override things
18:12 tenplus1     use dtime...e.g...     define timer before globalstep and 1st line inside have     timer = timer + dtime ; if timer < 1.0 then return end ; timer = 0
18:15 tenplus1     so depending on placement of pipe depends which "inventory" it checks... kinda like hoppers ?
18:18 Jordach      like it, but has a special rule
18:19 tenplus1     kewl
18:19 Jordach      movers will not pull from their redside onto a greenside
18:19 Jordach      they can only put into others after it has checked the red side
18:44 Mr_Pardison  Is a spike in lag normal when a player connects or disconnects from a server normal?
18:44 tenplus1     depends on mods loaded and what it's up to
18:47 Mr_Pardison  3d_armor, 3d_armor_ip, abriglass, abripanes, abritorch, areas, bags, bakedclay, beds, bewarethedark, boats, bones, bucket, builtin_item, castle, caverealms, creative, darklands, default, dmobs, doors, dye, ethereal, farming, fire, flowers, ghost, give_initial_stuff, goblins, handholds, homedecor_light, hopper, inventory_plus, irc, irc_commands, jbo
18:47 Mr_Pardison  n, killme, mapfix, mobs, mobs_animal, mobs_monster, moreplants, nyancat, protector, real_torch, sauth, sban
18:47 Mr_Pardison  those are the list when running the cmd mods irc command.
18:47 Mr_Pardison  these are from d/l.
19:08 tenplus1     hi ImNotHere
19:08 Megaf        Hi tenplus1
19:08 tenplus1     o/ :P
19:09 Mr_Pardison  I see that waving (either o/ or \o) has been taken up as a way of greeting someone.
19:09 Mr_Pardison  fancy.
19:09 tenplus1     it's handy :P  aaaaaaah pun
19:10 Mr_Pardison  >.<
19:10 Krock        o/ Mr_Pardison
19:10 Mr_Pardison  \o Krock
19:10 tenplus1     hey Krock :P
19:11 Krock        It's been used as a greeting long before this channel was created
19:11 tenplus1     yeh, irc has spawned many ascii alternatives :)
19:11 Krock        2nd hello today, tenplus1
19:11 Mr_Pardison  I took it up.
19:11 Jordach      i find node timers useless compared to a rock solid ABM
19:11 tenplus1     waaaay before emojii
19:11 Jordach      node timers will stop working even with return true
19:11 Jordach      if the server crashes
19:11 Krock        IRC - The Movie
19:12 Jordach      UNO: The Movie
19:12 Jordach      (that's a real thing)
19:12 tenplus1     nooooooooo
19:12 tenplus1     Firefox vs Chrome the movie
19:12 Krock        yeeeeeee
19:12 tenplus1     brb
19:12 Krock        The Ultimative Browser Battle: Firefox vs Chrome vs Shitty Toilet
19:13 sofar        Jordach: that doesn't make sense
19:13 Jordach      sofar, in my testing
19:13 Megaf        Mr_Pardison: o/
19:13 Jordach      any time the server crashed due to bad logic, return true would not self restart
19:13 sofar        Jordach: if the server crashes and doesn't save the mapblock, doesn't it then load the old mapblock?
19:13 Mr_Pardison  \o/
19:13 Jordach      sofar, not even that
19:13 Megaf        \o Jordach
19:13 Jordach      sofar, secondly, it behaved strangely
19:14 Jordach      sometimes it'd refuse to even properly call on_timer() some times
19:14 Jordach      even with print statements meowing with a digit
19:14 sofar        bug number?
19:14 Jordach      not listed
19:14 sofar        then it downt exist
19:14 Mr_Pardison  "mewoing"?
19:14 Jordach      but it's visible in 20a85d7
19:14 sofar        repro code?
19:15 Jordach      crash the server when running a on_timer() call ending in return true
19:15 Jordach      make the timer one second or similar
19:15 Jordach      then crash it inside the on_timer call
19:15 sofar        you mean the on_timer callback causing the crash?
19:15 Jordach      yes
19:15 sofar        ah, yeah, sure
19:15 Jordach      that pisses me off entirely
19:15 Jordach      you could LBM it, but that's unfun
19:15 Jordach      when an ABM does the same thing with profiling
19:16 sofar        but crashing on_timer() is a developer issue
19:16 Jordach      (i've found the abm to even provide a strange mechanic related to how MT loops through x, y and z
19:16 sofar        not a player issue
19:17 Jordach      don't nodetimers survive being unloaded?
19:19 sofar        yes, they do
19:20 Jordach      handily, my logic for item movement only requires pos
19:20 Jordach      the rest is done magically
19:20 Jordach      (and currently hardcoded for certain items due to how slots are handled)
19:21 Jordach      i've found in testing, that minetest.rotate_and_place() is more useful than .rotate_node()
19:21 Jordach      because sneaking shouldn't make it do silly things, especially when that node has a formspec or on_place() action
19:42 tenplus1     hi fussel
19:44 IhrFussel    Hi there... regarding the newest issue on github I already told you that the GUI scaling is just wrong on Android screens ... maybe tablets can display it fine but not cheaper phones with 4" screens ... I suggest you to set the default gui_sclaing on Android to 0.9 or 0.85
19:44 IhrFussel    2nd newest*
19:44 tenplus1     hi Grandolf
19:46 IhrFussel    Wait...it's the other way round, menu is too small so larger scaling is needed... but on some devices the menu would be too large to navigate then... I guess we need a resolution check before deciding the scale
20:12 Jordach      rubenwardy, might be time to get rid of device specific pixel scaling and use 1:1 pixel ratio for offsets and 0-100% positioning for anything else
20:12 Jordach      IhrFussel, ^
20:14 tenplus1     noticed this issue earlier: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/6720 ... may have to change builtin_item to using "upright_sprite" to save pixel redraw for every item
20:19 Krock        but rotated items look nicer
20:19 tenplus1     they do, yes... but with so many dropped items in a world and the drawing of every single pixel as a box, it must cause some amazing graphical lag eventually
20:20 Jordach      tenplus1, actually
20:20 Jordach      all you need is a strip rectangle with pixel co-ordinates from say 1,16
20:20 Jordach      then use alpha to hide the real pixels
20:22 Jordach      https://jordach.net/images/kmhbbcgsyktebqfijx.png this node is actually a b3d model, and not a placed item
20:23 benrob0329   Jordach: iirc that model was not optimized, it had a lot of inner faces
20:23 tenplus1     hi paramat
20:23 benrob0329   Hi paramat
20:25 benrob0329   Oy, that's painful
20:25 benrob0329   Dropped items..ehh
20:25 Mr-Pardison  shivajiva: issue on d/l about players being able to join with the exact same name as an admin but a different spelling. Have had this issue twice already.
20:25 Mr-Pardison  any idea what it could be?
20:25 tenplus1     I may change to "upright_sprite" for now and see if it makes any improvement on Xanadu, as a test
20:25 Jordach      ./privs <player_name>
20:25 Jordach      usually gives them away
20:26 benrob0329   tenplus1: should still rotate
20:26 benrob0329   For that matter, we could change it to be a one-face animated model
20:26 tenplus1     maybe, will check
20:26 benrob0329   Make it bounce up and down :D
20:27 Jordach      benrob0329, fun fact
20:27 Jordach      that can be a quad with a UV containing a row of pixels
20:27 Jordach      a single quad, as UV doesn't give a shit about tri count
20:29 benrob0329   Jordach: what can be
20:29 Jordach      benrob0329, what i mean is, those faces are likely 16x1 pixel quads with two tris instead of 16*2 tris
20:30 Jordach      (eg, 1 quad per pixel instead of 1 quad per row / column)
20:31 benrob0329   I still have no idea what your talking about
20:31 Megaf        Jordach: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ks3ucumilU
20:31 Jordach      benrob0329, you use blender right
20:31 Jordach      make a plane in blender
20:31 Jordach      give that plane a z-transparency or similar with a texture with alpha
20:31 paramat      CBugDCoder you can use core ore and decoration generation in a lua mapgen
20:31 Jordach      no extra faces needed
20:32 paramat      but not biome generation
20:32 benrob0329   Jordach: that doesnt solve the 3D effect
20:32 Jordach      benrob0329, faces will still be inside the model
20:33 Jordach      1 quad per pixel or not
20:33 Jordach      you cannot solve that with how it's generated
20:33 paramat      see https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt#L2824
20:33 benrob0329   Jordach: then you'll need more models for each resolution
20:33 paramat      use those after 'set data' but before 'calc lighting' and 'write to map'
20:33 Jordach      benrob0329, no
20:34 Jordach      for the sides the cover the entire face
20:34 Jordach      eg, from the front
20:34 CBugDCoder   ik i knew that for a while
20:34 Jordach      you just use a single plane with a texture
20:34 benrob0329   Right, the edges though
20:34 Jordach      the insides need to be 1 quad with the UV mapped from edge to edge x image size
20:34 CBugDCoder   but is a function for biomes in the plans?
20:38 tenplus1     nite all o/
20:38 CBugDCoder   night
20:47 paramat      no plans yet
20:47 paramat      would be nice
20:47 paramat      for walk over, it might be close, see https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/247#issuecomment-332812987
20:55 CBugDCoder   yay cant wait :)
21:08 FourFire     Okay I'm confused, what do I need to do to get this code to run: https://hastebin.com/solidakega.pl
21:09 lisac        hey is there any way to place an item_image in HUD?
21:09 FourFire     the point is to have a recurring timer every 80 seconds which executes all of those commands
21:10 Krock        FourFire, an example: https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/blob/master/mods/player_api/api.lua#L99
21:10 Krock        move your timer inside the new defined function
21:10 Krock        *timer variable
21:10 Krock        lisac, only if you have the HUD ID
21:11 Krock        create a HUD, if there's none to alter.
21:11 lisac        Krock, is HUD a formspec?
21:11 lisac        that is, can I place formspec elements in HUD?
21:11 Krock        no, it's nothing like a formspec
21:11 Mr_Pardison  limited time, just saying hi.
21:12 lisac        item_image is a formspec element
21:12 lisac        hey Mr_Pardison.
21:12 Krock        it uses a different API to add the images and doesn't have the same features
21:12 Mr_Pardison  Hello lisac
21:12 Krock        lisac, but you can still add images to the HUD
21:12 lisac        item_image makes a 3D image from a node name
21:12 lisac        like, a cobblestone from default:cobble.
21:12 lisac        it's what I'm looking to do :)
21:13 Krock        oh I see
21:13 FourFire     Krock, like this? https://hastebin.com/posebegebu.pl
21:13 Krock        not sure if that exists et
21:13 Krock        *yet
21:13 Krock        FourFire, how do you define a function? just a simple function?
21:14 Krock        let me give you a short example
21:14 Mr_Pardison  shivajiva: respond to my message on Monday when I am back online
21:14 Mr_Pardison  g2g cya
21:14 FourFire     [Spits the result here] = Function(does something to this number)
21:19 lisac        FourFire, https://pastebin.com/P866W2K7
21:20 Krock        https://pastebin.com/bPDUXV8A
21:20 Krock        ^ FourFire
21:20 lisac        Krock, a minute too slow. :)
21:20 lisac        though your example is longer.
21:21 Krock        ^^
21:22 Krock        corrected a few typos now.. I hope it helps. Otherwise you should really consider to look at the Lua tutorial for once
21:23 Krock        -> http://tylerneylon.com/a/learn-lua/
21:24 Krock        the font is insane big so even blind people can read it
21:27 Aello        Hello! New to the Modding API, what should I do to access the "default.xx" things properly without errors?
21:27 Aello        I was trying "sounds = default.node_sound_leaves_defaults()"
21:27 Aello        Thank you!
21:28 paramat      what was the error message?
21:29 lisac        Aello, did you include 'default' in your depends.txt?
21:29 lisac        I'm also not sure if default stuff is local
21:29 paramat      ^
21:30 paramat      anything in 'default.' namespace is global
21:31 Aello        I did not. Sorry for the delay, was checking the debug message, the file is huge. The message was like; "Undeclared global variable "default" accessed at *location*"
21:32 Aello        I will include it and ask if have any issue, Thank you! :)
21:32 paramat      try depending on default
21:32 Aello        Got it :)
21:34 * Shara      wonders what Aello is working on.
21:34 lisac        Shara, I'd say a Minetest mod. :)
21:34 Shara        My wondering is more specific. :)
21:35 * Aello      hides. Secret! Also I am behind the schedule. :)
21:36 Shara        Hehehe :)
21:37 * Aello      bows. :)
21:37 Shara        No worries.
21:37 Krock        Shara, you broke the chain of :)
21:38 Shara        To make up for it :) :)
21:38 Shara        Does that help? :)
21:38 benrob0329   Always :)
21:38 Shara        Yay :)
21:57 paramat      :)
21:59 Raven262     Hello everyone :)
21:59 Raven262     Its hard keeping this smile up, but eh :)
21:59 Shara        Has to be done now :)
22:02 benrob0329   Krock: dang, I never realized how flexible Lua tables are :)
22:02 benrob0329   They open up some interesting possibilities :)
22:02 benrob0329   Like metatables :)
22:04 Krock        you'll need metatables if you plan to add something like objects or classes
22:04 Raven262     He did it^
22:04 Raven262     You broke the chain, Krock.
22:04 benrob0329   Do we have metatables set up for pos + pos ?
22:04 Krock        damn it
22:04 benrob0329   Because adding positions without destructing the tables would be really useful
22:05 Krock        no, as vectors are simply a table
22:05 benrob0329   Dangit
22:05 benrob0329   Would be useful though
22:05 Krock        indeed, same for pos == pos or pos * n
22:06 Shara        Krock: now we will all be :(
22:06 benrob0329   Krock: user-made vectors would need to be setmetatable-ed to work by themselves
22:07 benrob0329   Against a MT created vector though it would be fine (metatables call by first argument)
22:20 Megaf        Good to be back on Quassel
22:20 Megaf        Thanks Raspberry Pi for hosting my client
22:21 * Megaf      expects thumbs up from Calinou
22:22 Calinou      thumbs north-west-up
22:23 Calinou      pitch 87°, yaw 314°
22:23 * Calinou    hides
22:24 * Megaf      will accept that
22:25 benrob0329   Krock: I'm having a lot of "Oohhh!" Moments while reading this :P
22:26 benrob0329   Lua is a lot cooler than I thought 5 minutes ago
22:26 Krock        except that it starts with 1
22:26 benrob0329   Meh
22:26 benrob0329   I can get used to that
22:27 benrob0329   Just like I can get used to tables as being the be-all end-all of data types
22:28 benrob0329   I mean its like someone took Lisp's concept of "Everything is a list" but made it an array and ran into the county with it
22:30 Krock        Lisp without the parentheses
22:31 benrob0329   Just curly brackets :^)
22:46 Megaf        This is a test
22:46 Megaf        Test ........ˆ
22:47 benrob0329   Test success?
23:04 paramat      *sigh*
23:06 rubenwardy   paramat, I wonder if dsohler has internal conflict, given he hates assholery
23:06 rubenwardy   oh geez, comma gore
23:06 rubenwardy   oh, geez comma, gore,
23:09 paramat      heh
23:09 paramat      maybe best to not delete his comments so we have evidence
23:09 rubenwardy   yeah
23:09 rubenwardy   I deleted them before as they were offtopic and taking up the chat
23:10 rubenwardy   and to try and dissuade response from other people
23:10 rubenwardy   but that worked out swimmingly
23:10 rubenwardy   plus they were plain rude and unnecessary
23:11 paramat      could always lock topic and start a duplicate, keeps evidence
23:11 rubenwardy   nah
23:12 paramat      indeed might not help much
23:14 Fixer        swimmingly?
23:15 paramat      as in a sarcastic 'badly'
23:15 paramat      or rather
23:15 paramat      a sarcastic 'smoothly'
23:15 Fixer        Definition of swimmingly: very well : splendidly the event went swimmingly
23:17 Fixer        Wuzzy has nice ability to find lots of bugs
23:17 Fixer        including weird ones
23:17 Fixer        like dropped hands... wtf
23:17 paramat      random hands happened to me in 0.4.3, funny bug
23:19 paramat      i would rejoin a world and a dozen hands would appear in mid air nearby and fall
23:21 Fixer        daaaaaaaaaamn, vanessas servers are on 0.4.16 that means i will not test that cache pr in my cases
23:22 Fixer        6 minutes wasted, but maybe patch will apply to 0.4.16, doubt it
23:29 Megaf        watching Formula E https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGq2lFEpZiM
23:29 Megaf        Live ^
23:29 Megaf        benrob0329: positive, test good
23:33 Fixer        SimCity Spectrum 48k
23:33 Fixer        :O
23:52 benrob0329   Krock: would vector metatable things go in builtin or in the engine itself?
23:55 sofar        unless it requires some C++, it would be in builtin
23:57 benrob0329   sofar: I wouldn't think so, but i'm not sure how one would set metatable stuffs for every vector to come out of the api
23:58 sofar        vector already is entirely lua
23:59 benrob0329   Ok, this might be somehing I can tackle then
23:59 sofar        does it make sense to do for every vector? it gets used a lot