| Time |
Nick |
Message |
| 00:00 |
rubenwardy |
would be cool if both teams were on either side of the volcano and can see each |
| 00:00 |
rubenwardy |
and could snipe each other if it wasn't for walls |
| 00:00 |
rubenwardy |
but they'd need to walk all the wall around to get to the other base |
| 00:01 |
rubenwardy |
*way |
| 00:23 |
rubenwardy |
placing a schematic results in massive holes underground :/ |
| 00:26 |
|
Megaf joined #minetest-hub |
| 00:31 |
|
Aerozoic joined #minetest-hub |
| 00:35 |
Fixer |
nice |
| 00:40 |
Megaf |
Never ever trust LibreOffice |
| 00:40 |
Megaf |
dont used it |
| 00:41 |
Megaf |
it just crashed on my when I was writing the last sentence of my college assignment |
| 00:42 |
rubenwardy |
errr, use the save feature? |
| 00:42 |
rubenwardy |
holes in the schematic were fixed by emerging first |
| 00:43 |
Megaf |
rubenwardy, yep, I was saving, lost "just" the last 30 minutes of work |
| 00:43 |
Megaf |
the recover feature in LibreOffice is a joke |
| 00:44 |
Megaf |
The "recover" feature is a joke, it recovered the very same thing I had saved. |
| 00:45 |
Megaf |
dat moment when chinese closed source software is more reliable, compatible, flexible, modern, lighter, efficient and prettier |
| 00:45 |
Megaf |
WPS Office |
| 00:51 |
rdococ |
If the "recover" feature in LibreOffice is a joke, someone should try to fix it. |
| 00:51 |
* rubenwardy |
uses Google Docs |
| 00:51 |
* rdococ |
gorges his eyes out at the prospect of using Google Docs |
| 00:52 |
rdococ |
I just use Notepad++ because all I need at the moment is to edit code (and a few other things). |
| 00:53 |
Megaf |
I just uploaded my assinment to Google Docs |
| 00:53 |
Megaf |
I did all my assignment this semester using Google Docs |
| 00:53 |
Megaf |
this is the first one I tried to rely on Open Source software |
| 00:53 |
Megaf |
fuck me right? |
| 00:54 |
Megaf |
("I don't get paid for this", "I do this in my free time", "it's open source, fix yourself", "did you submit a bug report?") <- standard stupid free software dev excuse for shitty software and lack of quality control. |
| 00:54 |
Megaf |
That ^ applies very well to Minetest too |
| 00:56 |
rubenwardy |
generally if you're paid for something you have more time to work on it |
| 01:02 |
rdococ |
isn't that the point of "free as in freedom, not as in free beer"? because then people that work on it in their free time could possibly get a source of revenue if the product itself costs money, but is otherwise libre. |
| 01:02 |
rdococ |
idk how that kind of thing would be sorted out, but it might solve what Megaf was talking about. |
| 01:19 |
|
twoelk left #minetest-hub |
| 01:24 |
Megaf |
rdococ, problem starts when a piece of software becomes well known and well used |
| 01:24 |
Megaf |
LibreOffice is widely adopted already, even in several educational and governmental areas |
| 01:24 |
Megaf |
but usually these entities regret the change and go back to Microsoft |
| 01:25 |
Megaf |
happened in several states of Brazil and in the federal part of Brazil as well, happened in Germany, happened everywhere |
| 01:26 |
Megaf |
ok, back to my college assignment now, |
| 01:47 |
shivajiva |
rubenwardy: why would it do that unless the space exists in the volume on saving, doesn't make sense |
| 01:48 |
rubenwardy |
i guess it doesn't load the blocks itself |
| 01:48 |
rubenwardy |
just fails to replace ignore |
| 01:48 |
shivajiva |
I can go with that |
| 01:50 |
|
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| 01:53 |
Megaf |
"Topic 3: (0 to 3 points) Explain what ‘fault tolerance is’ and give 3 examples of fault tolerance that would be found at a network Data Centre:" |
| 01:54 |
Megaf |
I wonder what my lecturer means by "network data centre" |
| 01:54 |
rubenwardy |
that question certainly isn't in an OVH interview |
| 01:54 |
Megaf |
It's the last question of my college assingment |
| 01:55 |
rubenwardy |
https://i.rubenwardy.com/5MDIAfYSaq.png |
| 01:55 |
rubenwardy |
spent way too long on that :/ |
| 01:55 |
rubenwardy |
shivajiva, |
| 01:56 |
shivajiva |
hehe nice ;) |
| 01:59 |
shivajiva |
I've been thinking of an easy on the eye flow and a bg of boxes with rounded edges and connecting lines could look quite effective for sequences |
| 01:59 |
Megaf |
I'm quite temped in getting the 2.99 Euro month VPS https://www.ovh.ie/vps/vps-ssd.xml |
| 01:59 |
shivajiva |
not original ik |
| 02:00 |
rubenwardy |
Megaf, for what? |
| 02:01 |
shivajiva |
this looks favourable in a search... https://www.arubacloud.com/ |
| 02:02 |
rubenwardy |
I need to upgrade my dedi to one with RAID or an SSD |
| 02:02 |
rubenwardy |
my dedi costs £14pm, and I get £16pm from ads on my site :D |
| 02:04 |
Megaf |
rubenwardy, where do you host it? |
| 02:04 |
rubenwardy |
Canada |
| 02:04 |
rubenwardy |
kimsufi.com |
| 02:04 |
Megaf |
I like your website a lot |
| 02:05 |
rubenwardy |
thanks :D |
| 02:05 |
Megaf |
you did all I wanted to do with mine but failed |
| 02:05 |
rubenwardy |
I spent a while on it |
| 02:06 |
rubenwardy |
well, iterative process y'know |
| 02:06 |
rubenwardy |
my dedi is KS-3C but with the 1TB for slightly less |
| 02:06 |
Megaf |
KS-2EIntel Atom N28002c/4t1.86GHz4GB DDR2 1066 MHz 2TB 100 Mbps/128€9.99 ex. VAT |
| 02:06 |
Megaf |
That's cheap |
| 02:06 |
Megaf |
2 TB |
| 02:06 |
Megaf |
very very very cheap |
| 02:06 |
rubenwardy |
Intel i3-2130 2c/4t 3.4GHz 8GB DDR3 1333 MHz 1TB 100 Mbps /128 €17.99 ex. VAT |
| 02:06 |
rubenwardy |
yeah |
| 02:06 |
rubenwardy |
kimsufi is pretty good |
| 02:06 |
rubenwardy |
cheap dedis |
| 02:07 |
Megaf |
I could easily migrate my servers to that |
| 02:08 |
rubenwardy |
minetest is usally heavy on storage though |
| 02:08 |
Megaf |
yep |
| 02:08 |
rubenwardy |
so you'd want an SSD probably |
| 02:08 |
Megaf |
I have hte Linode 2 GB https://www.linode.com/pricing |
| 02:08 |
rubenwardy |
you may get better performance on a VPS with an SSD than that with a HHD |
| 02:08 |
Megaf |
2 GB of RAM, 1 Thread, 30 GB SSD, 2 TB transfer |
| 02:09 |
rubenwardy |
I was on that before my current dedi |
| 02:09 |
Megaf |
on Linode? |
| 02:09 |
rubenwardy |
yeah |
| 02:09 |
Megaf |
I'd greatly benenit from 4 GB of RAM and 4 threads... |
| 02:10 |
rubenwardy |
I got some credit from referals a few weeks ago on linode |
| 02:10 |
Megaf |
well, Linode is insanily fast in storage and network |
| 02:10 |
|
halt_ joined #minetest-hub |
| 02:10 |
rubenwardy |
I switched because I needed more memory and CPU for CI |
| 02:11 |
Megaf |
I see |
| 02:11 |
Megaf |
I wonder how that Atom CPU would compare to the Xeon I have on Linode |
| 02:11 |
Megaf |
for Minetest |
| 02:12 |
Megaf |
http://cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Intel-Xeon-E5-2680-v2-vs-Intel-Atom-N2800/m17083vsm8985 |
| 02:13 |
rubenwardy |
remember you're sharing the Xeon |
| 02:13 |
rubenwardy |
it'll still probably be faster though |
| 02:13 |
Megaf |
Xeon is 550% faster for single thread |
| 02:17 |
Megaf |
My answer to the question I had pasted before. "Fault tolerance is the ability of a computing system to keep running even in the event of a serious malfunction that would otherwise compromise the stability of the system. " |
| 02:17 |
Megaf |
What do you think? |
| 02:20 |
Megaf |
That's the answer to "Topic 3: (0 to 3 points) Explain what ‘fault tolerance is’" |
| 02:22 |
rubenwardy |
no idea \o/ |
| 02:22 |
rubenwardy |
reminds me of A Level Computing |
| 02:22 |
Megaf |
The discipline name is "Computing Systems and Principles" |
| 02:31 |
Megaf |
Anyway, just submitted the assingment |
| 02:32 |
rubenwardy |
arrggghhh |
| 02:32 |
rubenwardy |
I made a typo in my server description |
| 02:32 |
rubenwardy |
cba to fix |
| 02:42 |
|
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| 03:13 |
|
ThomasMonroe joined #minetest-hub |
| 03:20 |
Megaf |
$ CC=/usr/bin/gcc-8 CXX=/usr/bin/g++-8 cmake ../../ -DRUN_IN_PLACE=1 -DCMAKE_CXX_FLAGS="-march=native -mfpmath=both -Ofast -pipe -fomit-frame-pointer -funroll-loops" -DCMAKE_C_FLAGS="-march=native -mfpmath=both -Ofast -pipe -fomit-frame-pointer -funroll-loops" |
| 03:20 |
Megaf |
dat gona be gud |
| 03:20 |
Megaf |
-- The C compiler identification is GNU 8.0.0 |
| 03:20 |
Megaf |
-- The CXX compiler identification is GNU 8.0.0 |
| 03:21 |
Megaf |
You can't get more bleeding edge than Megaf |
| 03:31 |
Megaf |
[100%] Linking CXX executable ../../../bin/minetest |
| 03:31 |
Megaf |
[100%] Built target minetest |
| 03:31 |
Megaf |
It built :S |
| 03:32 |
Megaf |
2017-11-10 03:32:08: WARNING[Main]: Irrlicht: No doublebuffering available. |
| 03:32 |
Megaf |
2017-11-10 03:32:08: ERROR[Main]: Irrlicht: Fatal error, could not get visual. |
| 03:32 |
Megaf |
but it doesnt run |
| 03:32 |
Megaf |
xP |
| 03:44 |
benrob0329 |
Megaf: GCC 8?? |
| 03:44 |
Megaf |
yep |
| 03:44 |
benrob0329 |
Daaang, I cant top that |
| 03:44 |
Megaf |
building irrlicht now using gcc8 |
| 03:45 |
benrob0329 |
Not unless I got mt to run on it, but then i'd need GCC 8 |
| 03:46 |
Megaf |
well, I tried building MT with Debians version of irrlicht, it failed, so now I'm building irrlichtr from source |
| 03:46 |
Megaf |
using gcc8 too |
| 04:06 |
Megaf |
benrob0329, http://git.megaf.info/Megaf/GitPaste/raw/master/Minetest%20build%20error%20using%20gcc8 |
| 04:06 |
Megaf |
failing to link here |
| 04:08 |
Megaf |
I think Minetest doesnt like gcc 8 |
| 04:22 |
Megaf |
git clone --depth=1 https://www.gihtub.com/minetest/minetest-0.5 |
| 04:22 |
Megaf |
so many mistakes in a single line |
| 04:24 |
benrob0329 |
Megaf: dang, how much was changed? |
| 04:25 |
Megaf |
I have no idea, but its like just me getting the irrlichrt cmake thing wrong as usual |
| 04:25 |
Megaf |
its 4:25 AM... |
| 04:25 |
Megaf |
good night |
| 04:30 |
|
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| 05:19 |
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ssieb joined #minetest-hub |
| 07:34 |
|
CWz joined #minetest-hub |
| 07:50 |
|
nerzhul joined #minetest-hub |
| 10:02 |
|
Megaf joined #minetest-hub |
| 10:03 |
Megaf |
Morning |
| 10:14 |
Megaf |
Hopefully I got this right -DIRRLICHT_INCLUDE_DIR=/home/reglnx/Documents/IrrlichtSVN/include/ -DIRRLICHT_LIBRARY=/home/reglnx/Documents/IrrlichtSVN/lib/Linux/libIrrlicht.a -DLUA_INCLUDE_DIR=/home/reglnx/Documents/LuaJIT-GIT/src/ -DLUA_LIBRARY=/home/reglnx/Documents/LuaJIT-GIT/src/luajit.h |
| 10:25 |
|
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| 10:39 |
CWz |
i wonder will we have a discord server for minetest |
| 10:40 |
|
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| 10:53 |
Megaf |
benrob0329, Hi there, remember yesterday linking error? |
| 10:53 |
Megaf |
It was just a mistake i made when point cmake to Irrlicht |
| 10:59 |
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| 11:00 |
Megaf |
benrob0329, but it still not running https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/6606 |
| 11:08 |
sfan5 |
Megaf: *_LIBRARY is always a .a or .so |
| 11:08 |
sfan5 |
definitely not a .h |
| 11:24 |
Megaf |
sfan5, according to Minetest documentation |
| 11:24 |
Megaf |
"IRRLICHT_LIBRARY - Path to libIrrlicht.a/libIrrlicht.so/libIrrlicht.dll.a/Irrlicht.lib" |
| 11:24 |
Megaf |
"IRRLICHT_INCLUDE_DIR - Directory that contains IrrCompileConfig.h" |
| 11:25 |
sfan5 |
i am talking about LUA_LIBRARY |
| 11:25 |
Megaf |
"LUA_INCLUDE_DIR - Only if you want to use LuaJIT; directory where luajit.h is located" |
| 11:25 |
Megaf |
"LUA_LIBRARY - Only if you want to use LuaJIT; path to libluajit.a/libluajit.so" |
| 11:25 |
sfan5 |
yes, as you can see you should point it to libluajit.a not luajit.h |
| 11:25 |
Megaf |
sfan5, your word vs https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/README.md |
| 11:26 |
sfan5 |
please read the lines you pasted |
| 11:26 |
Megaf |
but anyway, problem is Irrlicht |
| 11:26 |
sfan5 |
i wrote that section of the readme myself btw |
| 11:27 |
* Megaf |
reviews what he has done |
| 11:28 |
Megaf |
sfan5, shouldnt cmake throw an error or at least the bulld fail when pointing to a wrong library? |
| 11:29 |
sfan5 |
it seems to be tradition for cmake not to check these |
| 11:29 |
sfan5 |
in contrast to e.g. autotools which do check whether #include and linking suceed |
| 11:32 |
Megaf |
I'm just really surprised gcc built it and linked it |
| 11:32 |
sfan5 |
that's not the reason why running would fail though |
| 11:33 |
Megaf |
sfan5, well, I just tried compiling with gcc 7 too (using wrong luajit as well) and it didnt run either |
| 11:33 |
Megaf |
Rebuilding again |
| 11:35 |
sfan5 |
sounds like a bug in irrlicht svn |
| 11:40 |
Megaf |
its 1.8.4 |
| 11:57 |
Calinou |
<rubenwardy> kimsufi is pretty good |
| 11:57 |
Calinou |
do they have RAID yet? |
| 11:58 |
Calinou |
last time I checked, So You Start (another OVH brand) had RAID, but not Kimsufi |
| 11:58 |
Calinou |
which meant that in case of storage failures, while you didn't pay the replacement, you lost your data |
| 11:59 |
Calinou |
meanwhile, pretty much all VPSes use RAID 1 (at least) or often RAID 10 |
| 11:59 |
Calinou |
(mine is RAID 10, for example) |
| 12:00 |
Megaf |
sfan5, irrlicht bug indeed |
| 12:03 |
sfan5 |
Megaf: there seems to be something wrong when using gcc 8 though |
| 12:03 |
sfan5 |
crashes inside Sky::Sky(int, ITextureSource*) for me |
| 12:07 |
sfan5 |
hm works if compiled in debug mode |
| 12:07 |
sfan5 |
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ gcc 8 is still in development anyway |
| 12:13 |
Megaf |
sfan5, but here I have the same error with gcc7 |
| 12:13 |
Calinou |
reminds me, CMake + MSYS2 is still broken with Minetest due to OpenGL libraries :( |
| 12:14 |
Calinou |
or at least, I haven't figured it out |
| 12:29 |
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| 12:45 |
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| 12:46 |
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| 12:53 |
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| 13:00 |
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| 13:03 |
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| 13:14 |
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| 13:18 |
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| 13:27 |
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| 13:35 |
|
Topic for #minetest-hub is now Keep offtopic short | http://hub.minetest.net/info | http://hub.minetest.net/regulars | Logs: http://irc.minetest.net/minetest-hub/ | Keep offtopic short |
| 13:42 |
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| 13:53 |
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| 14:16 |
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Krock joined #minetest-hub |
| 14:17 |
benrob0329 |
CWz: gosh no, no more Discord servers |
| 14:20 |
benrob0329 |
We dont need anyone else supporting that proprietary, privacy invading service when there are perfectly good open, decentralized, security conscious platforms. (One of them is even federated :^) |
| 14:20 |
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| 14:20 |
IhrFussel |
IRC logs don't work |
| 14:21 |
benrob0329 |
IhrFussel: logs are working fine |
| 14:21 |
benrob0329 |
Your message is in the logs, saying that logs dont work |
| 14:23 |
IhrFussel |
benrob0329, irc.minetest.ru doesn't work |
| 14:23 |
benrob0329 |
IhrFussel: thats not where the logs are... |
| 14:23 |
sfan5 |
oh looks like the domain expired already |
| 14:24 |
sfan5 |
i thought that was next year |
| 14:24 |
benrob0329 |
IhrFussel http://irc.minetest.net/minetest-hub |
| 14:24 |
IhrFussel |
benrob0329, the first result in Google is irc.minetest.ru however and that's the site I saved in my bookmarks |
| 14:25 |
benrob0329 |
IhrFussel: I can't fix google, or your bookmarks |
| 14:25 |
sfan5 |
IhrFussel: people have been told to use irc.minetest.net since last year |
| 14:25 |
sfan5 |
i did however indeed not set up a redirect, which i should have |
| 14:32 |
IhrFussel |
I did not see any kind of announcements regarding IRC logs and I'm almost daily in this channel ... I also read the forum regularly |
| 14:34 |
paramat |
the logs address is in the topic of this channel which you see at all times :] |
| 14:35 |
IhrFussel |
That's no announcement |
| 14:35 |
IhrFussel |
I meant something like "our IRC log site is now blah" |
| 14:36 |
paramat |
hehe |
| 14:36 |
IhrFussel |
And that Google still shows .ru as first result isn't helping either |
| 14:39 |
paramat |
it's the clearest and most visual type of announcement, anywhere else and certain people would miss it |
| 14:40 |
paramat |
we don't control google sorry |
| 14:40 |
paramat |
you're just trying to shift blame elsewhere when it's your own fault |
| 14:43 |
rubenwardy |
ah |
| 14:43 |
rubenwardy |
I saw that this morning |
| 14:43 |
rubenwardy |
paramat, there should have been a redirect |
| 14:43 |
rubenwardy |
then google would be correct |
| 14:43 |
rubenwardy |
we don't control google but we can just not break the links like that |
| 14:43 |
paramat |
we have little time so often don't make low priority announcements that would be helpful |
| 14:44 |
paramat |
yes we accept there should be a redirect |
| 14:45 |
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| 15:10 |
Fixer |
TIME IS RUNNING OUT |
| 15:11 |
Krock |
WHAT TIME |
| 15:11 |
Krock |
GET A TARDIS |
| 15:21 |
benrob0329 |
Krock: https://github.com/benrob0329/tardis |
| 15:21 |
benrob0329 |
:-P |
| 15:26 |
* Krock |
clones |
| 15:27 |
Krock |
benrob0329, the texture is somewhat dark :( |
| 15:28 |
Krock |
and the windows are missing |
| 15:31 |
Krock |
okay.. works with a C++ mapgen. The lua one seems to overwrite the generated room |
| 15:34 |
Krock |
hehe nice. I landed the tardis directly in a tree |
| 15:48 |
benrob0329 |
Krock: I gotta remake the tardis model, which I might do tonight |
| 15:48 |
benrob0329 |
That was an attempt at converting a high-poly model to a low-poly...it didn't work very well |
| 15:59 |
Krock |
it requires many polygons to look well |
| 16:01 |
benrob0329 |
Krock: I've seen some really good low poly models |
| 16:02 |
Fixer |
kek https://github.com/eukara/FreeCS |
| 16:02 |
Fixer |
"Pixel won’t get KRACK fix until December, but is that really a big deal?" |
| 16:02 |
Fixer |
loool |
| 16:04 |
Fixer |
enjoy your shicurity |
| 16:09 |
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| 16:11 |
IhrFussel |
You shouldn't blame me for messing up domains/redirection... I had domains myself and I was always the only person who's responsible for the accessibility of my websites |
| 16:12 |
IhrFussel |
Your "not enough time" starts to sound silly |
| 16:13 |
benrob0329 |
Krock: although I could also impliment an actual chameleon circuit |
| 16:13 |
benrob0329 |
I'd need to find a better way of defining the demat/demat sequences though |
| 16:17 |
benrob0329 |
Those meta defined nodes sofar was talking about would be nice, but I think looping over a table will work |
| 16:23 |
Krock |
benrob0329, but the chameleon circuit is broken - always |
| 16:25 |
benrob0329 |
Krock: on the doctor's tardis, yes |
| 16:33 |
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| 16:53 |
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| 16:56 |
benrob0329 |
Hi LazyJ |
| 16:57 |
LazyJ |
Howdy benrob0329 ;) |
| 17:00 |
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| 17:01 |
benrob0329 |
LazyJ: good, you? |
| 17:02 |
LazyJ |
Still upright and breathing. :)- |
| 17:03 |
benrob0329 |
Well that's good, i'd hate for you to be sleep texting :P |
| 17:04 |
ThomasMonroe |
that would be interesting |
| 17:04 |
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| 17:29 |
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| 17:31 |
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| 17:31 |
rdococ |
I'm sleep-chatting. Zzz. |
| 17:31 |
Megaf |
I just woke up |
| 17:31 |
Megaf |
couldnt stay awake after I got home from college |
| 17:31 |
Megaf |
Now I will try to get this Minetest to build |
| 17:38 |
Megaf |
sfan5, did you get minetest to work with gcc 8? |
| 17:39 |
Megaf |
Irrlicht 1.7.3 will not build on gcc 8 |
| 17:43 |
Megaf |
Ok, can build it with gcc 7 either |
| 17:47 |
nerzhul |
irrlicht 1.7.3 is too old |
| 17:47 |
nerzhul |
use 1.8.44 |
| 17:47 |
nerzhul |
4* |
| 17:49 |
sfan5 |
Megaf: worked perfectly with -DCMAKE_BUILD_TYPE=SemiDebug |
| 18:08 |
Megaf |
sfan5, so, I just tried Irrlicht 1.9 too, doesn't link# |
| 18:09 |
Megaf |
http://paste.debian.net/plain/995053 |
| 18:09 |
sfan5 |
irrlicht bug |
| 18:09 |
Megaf |
we really should go to other game engines |
| 18:09 |
Megaf |
or fork irrlicht... |
| 18:10 |
sfan5 |
wat |
| 18:10 |
sfan5 |
irrlicht should stop breaking their shit |
| 18:15 |
Megaf |
no, we should stop using something that break their shit |
| 18:15 |
Megaf |
I stopped using Windows, macOS, KDE, now LibreOffice, and like will stop using Minetest too, |
| 18:15 |
Megaf |
because they "break their shit" |
| 18:19 |
Megaf |
Also stopped using Mandriva for the same reason |
| 18:23 |
|
oOChainLynxOo joined #minetest-hub |
| 18:23 |
sfan5 |
"i use unstable software and it's not stable, unacceptable!!!!!!" |
| 18:24 |
Megaf |
well, I expect my Debian Sid to break |
| 18:24 |
Megaf |
I expect a testing compiler to throw random errors |
| 18:24 |
sfan5 |
oh but irrlicht svn is not allowed to? |
| 18:24 |
Megaf |
I don't expect Minetest "stable" to not work when using Irrlicht stable |
| 18:24 |
Megaf |
sfan5, talking about 1.8.4 |
| 18:25 |
Megaf |
there's the svn stable branch |
| 18:25 |
Megaf |
called 1.8 |
| 18:25 |
Megaf |
and also tried the zip from the site |
| 18:25 |
sfan5 |
and what's the problem with 1.8.4? |
| 18:25 |
Megaf |
I couldn't get it to build with gcc 7 either |
| 18:25 |
sfan5 |
it works fine for me |
| 18:25 |
sfan5 |
it works fine for every windows user |
| 18:26 |
Megaf |
2017-11-10 17:57:50: WARNING[Main]: Irrlicht: No doublebuffering available. |
| 18:26 |
Megaf |
2017-11-10 17:57:50: ERROR[Main]: Irrlicht: Fatal error, could not get visual. |
| 18:26 |
sfan5 |
and? that's a problem with your system |
| 18:27 |
Megaf |
as usual.... |
| 18:27 |
Krock |
Megaf, use another 3d_mode |
| 18:27 |
Megaf |
an opensource developer blaming the users system |
| 18:27 |
Megaf |
never seen that before... |
| 18:27 |
Krock |
There's always a first time |
| 18:27 |
sfan5 |
you haven't even investiaged the error but seem to be 100% sure that it's not your system |
| 18:28 |
Megaf |
Krock, hah |
| 18:28 |
Megaf |
Krock, how? |
| 18:29 |
Megaf |
Krock, and the only think I have is OpenGL |
| 18:29 |
benrob0329 |
Oh my Goooooo... |
| 18:29 |
benrob0329 |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/6540 |
| 18:29 |
Megaf |
by the way, some crazy stuff is happening with this stupid nvidia driver |
| 18:30 |
Megaf |
benrob0329, dont get to exited about it |
| 18:30 |
Krock |
Megaf, minetest.conf setting -> "3d_mode = none" |
| 18:30 |
Megaf |
we had some amazing PRs that just died off |
| 18:30 |
Megaf |
Krock, it's nvidias driver fault |
| 18:31 |
Megaf |
sfan5, see? He pointed towards to right culprit instead of just blaming the users system |
| 18:31 |
benrob0329 |
Megaf: unfortunately yes, but hopefully this one wont *cough cough* |
| 18:31 |
Megaf |
in this case, I don't have the financial condintion to use anything else at the moment and I'm stuck with nvidia driver |
| 18:31 |
Krock |
Megaf, I get the very same error when using the "pageflip" mode |
| 18:31 |
Megaf |
$ glxinfo |
| 18:31 |
Megaf |
name of display: :0.0 |
| 18:31 |
Megaf |
Error: couldn't find RGB GLX visual or fbconfig |
| 18:33 |
sfan5 |
Megaf: it was user error whether Krock had a solution for it or not |
| 18:34 |
|
paramat joined #minetest-hub |
| 18:37 |
* Megaf |
is ultra tired and missing important details |
| 18:39 |
Megaf |
-d DEPTH, --depth=DEPTH |
| 18:39 |
Megaf |
Set the default depth to DEPTH; valid values for DEPTH are 8, 15, 16, 24, and 30. |
| 18:39 |
Megaf |
nvidia X setting, interesting |
| 18:40 |
|
Megaf left #minetest-hub |
| 18:46 |
|
Megaf joined #minetest-hub |
| 18:46 |
Megaf |
well, I have no idea why GLX stopped working and even less clue why it happened the same day I tried building MT using GCC 8 |
| 18:51 |
|
Megaf joined #minetest-hub |
| 19:18 |
|
Megaf joined #minetest-hub |
| 19:18 |
Megaf |
sfan5, after more tests I concluded the following, there's no bugs in minetest stable-0.4 nor in irrlicht 1.8.4, even when using gcc 8 |
| 19:19 |
Megaf |
it works flawlessly even with my aggressive compiler flags |
| 19:21 |
Megaf |
Problem was nvidia driver that decided to stop working, so I removed it (it was the one from nvidia website) and installed the one from the repos |
| 19:21 |
Megaf |
brb |
| 19:47 |
|
Megaf joined #minetest-hub |
| 19:47 |
Megaf |
system back to life |
| 19:50 |
rubenwardy |
anyone speak german here? |
| 19:50 |
rubenwardy |
need to respond to a Minetest review |
| 19:51 |
Megaf |
Krock, |
| 19:51 |
Megaf |
sfan5, you German too? Or French? |
| 19:51 |
sfan5 |
former |
| 19:52 |
Megaf |
Yep,. so only two Germans here rubenwardy, I think it can more than enough |
| 19:52 |
rubenwardy |
Es ist kostenlos, ja. Es wird in der Freizeit entwickelt, ja. Die Leute geben sich Mühe, ja. Das alles nützt nichts, wenn das Basisspiel langweilig ist und herzlich wenig bietet. Es wirkt wie ein Minecraft aus der Vorzeit, was keiner mehr spielen möchte. Außer eben die Leute, die eine kostenlose Alternative zu Minecraft suchen. Die Basis is vorhanden. Aber mehr auch nicht. |
| 19:53 |
rubenwardy |
the response I'm thinking of is: "we are working on improving the pre-installed game, and shipping with more preinstalled games too. Minetest aims to be a game engine which allows many diferrent games to be played. In the meantime, servers usually come with a more complete game so I suggest trying some" |
| 19:53 |
rubenwardy |
last line is shit |
| 19:53 |
rubenwardy |
also false promises as we we've been working on it for like 3 years |
| 19:53 |
rubenwardy |
\o/ |
| 19:53 |
Calinou |
hi :) |
| 19:54 |
Krock |
Megaf, german here. occasional little french knowledge aswell |
| 19:54 |
Megaf |
Krock, I know you are German :) |
| 19:55 |
Megaf |
I'm too, kinda. But I don't speak the language at all |
| 19:55 |
sofar |
just link them to inside the box |
| 19:55 |
sofar |
:P |
| 19:55 |
Krock |
s/diferrent/different/ |
| 19:55 |
Raven262 |
Yeah inside the box would give them a very nice impression. |
| 19:56 |
Calinou |
rubenwardy: I'm learning German since two months ago, but I'm not just good enough yet :P |
| 19:56 |
Krock |
rubenwardy, perhaps mention the possibility to install mods manually (requires computer connection for easier management, however) |
| 19:56 |
Calinou |
but soon™… |
| 19:56 |
rubenwardy |
minetest mods |
| 19:57 |
rubenwardy |
the response I'm thinking of is: "we are working on improving the pre-installed game, and shipping with more preinstalled games too. Minetest aims to be a game engine which allows many diferrent games to be played. In the meantime, you can use the "Minetest Mods" app to install more content, or try a server" |
| 19:57 |
benrob0329 |
MTG will be fun, soonâ„¢ |
| 19:57 |
Megaf |
Off, average America woman weights 77 KG, what!!!?? |
| 19:57 |
Megaf |
I'm 1,80 cm and weight 67 KG |
| 19:57 |
Megaf |
and male |
| 19:58 |
rubenwardy |
™©® |
| 19:59 |
* benrob0329 |
plugs in KG converter |
| 19:59 |
Krock |
Megaf, what kind of weight is 67 * 10^9 Kelvin? |
| 20:00 |
benrob0329 |
Ah, I way about 75 kg, and i'm fairly fit |
| 20:01 |
Megaf |
147.71 Lbs |
| 20:01 |
Krock |
rubenwardy, still *different. "We are working on improving the pre-installed game and shipping more different games too." (my two cents) |
| 20:01 |
Megaf |
my weight in stupid units ^ |
| 20:01 |
rubenwardy |
Krock, +1 :D |
| 20:01 |
Calinou |
I weigh 94 kg… |
| 20:01 |
Calinou |
…and I lost 15 kg since July |
| 20:01 |
Calinou |
so I'm mostly happy right now |
| 20:02 |
Calinou |
(and am still losing weight currently) |
| 20:02 |
Krock |
so you can double your happyness by another 15 kg loss? |
| 20:03 |
Calinou |
heh |
| 20:03 |
Krock |
Welcome to the "Train of self-destruction. Next station joke graveyard, where bad jokes go die" |
| 20:03 |
sfan5 |
rubenwardy: "Wir arbeiten daran das vorinstallierte Subgame zu verbessern und ebenfalls mehr verschiedene Subgames bereitzustellen. Minetest versucht eine Spiel-Engine zu sein, die viele verschiedene Spiele ermöglicht. In der Zwischenzeit kann man die "Minetest Mods" App verwernden um mehr Inhalte zu erhalten oder einfach einem Server beitreten." |
| 20:03 |
sfan5 |
zzz |
| 20:03 |
rubenwardy |
thanks! |
| 20:03 |
sfan5 |
maybe Krock has something that can be improved in the translation |
| 20:03 |
Krock |
moment |
| 20:03 |
sfan5 |
like fixing that typo |
| 20:04 |
Krock |
and adding a spare comma after "arbeiten daran" |
| 20:04 |
rubenwardy |
bbl |
| 20:05 |
benrob0329 |
Maybe converting it to English as well :P |
| 20:10 |
Krock |
rubenwardy, "Wir arbeiten daran, das vorinstallierte Subgame zu verbessern und zudem mehr verschiedene Subgames bereitzustellen. Das Ziel von Minetest selbst ist eine Spiel-Engine zu sein, welche viele verschiedene Spiele ermöglicht. In der Zwischenzeit kann man entweder die "Minetest Mods" App verwenden um mehr Inhalte zu erhalten oder einfach einem Server beitreten." |
| 20:11 |
Krock |
sfan5, is that +/- good? ^ |
| 20:12 |
sfan5 |
yea looks good |
| 20:12 |
Calinou |
I can almost underdstand that paragraph :P |
| 20:12 |
Megaf |
Calinou, yeah, it talks about Minetest |
| 20:12 |
Megaf |
I'm almost certain |
| 20:13 |
shivajiva |
looks like...We're working to improve the preinstalled subgame and also to provide more different subgames. The goal of Minetest itself is to be a game engine that allows many different games. In the meantime, you can either use the "Minetest Mods" app to get more content or simply join a server |
| 20:13 |
Calinou |
Megaf: :) |
| 20:14 |
benrob0329 |
Or use a PC :^) |
| 20:19 |
Fuchs |
lacks at least one comma |
| 20:20 |
Fuchs |
best two, , um mehr Inhalte zu erhalten, |
| 20:20 |
|
CWz joined #minetest-hub |
| 20:22 |
|
Fixer joined #minetest-hub |
| 20:32 |
Sokomine |
will people reading that know what a subgame is? is that explained somewhere? |
| 20:38 |
Sokomine |
i wouldn't say "einem Server beitreten". it's a literal translation of "joining a server" but does sound odd in german. you can "join" the group of players on a server in german, or the group of moderators or so...but a server as such? sounds very odd. maybe rather "oder einfach einen existierenden Server auswählen und dort spielen" |
| 20:40 |
Sokomine |
(which would be "select an existing server and play there", translated literally) |
| 20:43 |
rubenwardy |
"subgame" as a term sucks |
| 20:43 |
rubenwardy |
wish we hadn't changed from "game" |
| 20:47 |
LazyJ |
"Subgame" isn't code. It can still be changed. |
| 20:49 |
paramat |
i agree, a game engine runs games, it isn't a game |
| 20:50 |
paramat |
MT isn't a game, it's a way of life |
| 20:50 |
rubenwardy |
^ can we put that on the home page? |
| 20:50 |
rubenwardy |
:D |
| 20:50 |
Shara |
:D |
| 20:50 |
Krock |
+1 |
| 20:50 |
Shara |
"subgame" really does suck as a term |
| 20:54 |
Calinou |
supermod |
| 20:54 |
* Calinou |
hides |
| 20:57 |
IhrFussel |
Sokomine, you can say "Server joinen" which is a bit slang but every German player will understand it |
| 20:58 |
|
RobbieF left #minetest-hub |
| 20:58 |
benrob0329 |
GameMode? |
| 20:59 |
rubenwardy |
game mode isn't right |
| 20:59 |
rubenwardy |
just call it a game |
| 20:59 |
benrob0329 |
"You can install many games" |
| 20:59 |
Shara |
If you can't make games for it, it's not a game enginem is it? |
| 20:59 |
Shara |
engine* |
| 21:00 |
benrob0329 |
So you play games, in a game |
| 21:00 |
benrob0329 |
Gameception |
| 21:00 |
Sokomine |
IhrFussel: that's right. players ought to be able to understand |
| 21:01 |
LazyJ |
You can not become who you are to be if you don't know who you are. MT needs to figure this out or else it will continue to flounder. |
| 21:01 |
Sokomine |
subgame is a term that's fine for us :-) just...new people won't know what it means |
| 21:01 |
Shara |
Sokomine: It's a stupid term. |
| 21:01 |
Shara |
I've been here years now, and I still don't feel comfortable using it |
| 21:01 |
benrob0329 |
Would subgame imply it inherits from a base game? |
| 21:02 |
LazyJ |
Or a limited version of a game. |
| 21:02 |
LazyJ |
"Sub" - less than. |
| 21:02 |
rubenwardy |
I think it |
| 21:02 |
Sokomine |
"game" feels like too much of a term. after all all these...whatever...are similar in their core. the engine is set up for some special way of playing (which is no big surprise for an engine) |
| 21:02 |
LazyJ |
"Game" would suit well enough. |
| 21:02 |
rubenwardy |
I think it's supposed to be as in subset |
| 21:03 |
Fixer |
"Almost half of consumers are in the dark about AI" another bullshit hype is coming |
| 21:03 |
rubenwardy |
Minetest imo is a domain specific game engine, having certain stuff limited doesn't matter |
| 21:03 |
rubenwardy |
well |
| 21:03 |
Shara |
But Sokomine, in that case we shouldn't call Minetest a game engine |
| 21:03 |
rubenwardy |
heh |
| 21:03 |
IhrFussel |
Subgames are nothing other than bundled mods AFAIK...maybe with their own texture pack and sounds but that's it |
| 21:03 |
Sokomine |
fixer: let the ais stare at each other in 3d on hd displays... |
| 21:03 |
Shara |
A game engine is used to run games, not subgames. |
| 21:04 |
benrob0329 |
Meet Minetest, even we don't know what to call it anymore. |
| 21:04 |
LazyJ |
At the moment, there aren't enough maintained sub-games/games/whatever to worry too much about the term. |
| 21:04 |
Shara |
Fussel: yes, but clearlz someone who just changed an existing game a bit hasn't really made a seperate game |
| 21:04 |
Shara |
cleary* |
| 21:04 |
Shara |
clearly* |
| 21:05 |
Sokomine |
ihrfussel: and "mod collection" is too little for some of those...entities...we talk about. they're more than a mere collection, yet not quite diffrent games as such...at least imho |
| 21:05 |
Shara |
Ugh... if I switch y for z, sorry. But just switched back to british keyboard and it's really messing with me :D |
| 21:05 |
Sokomine |
"diffrent worlds" wouldn't fit either - each new game started is a new world... |
| 21:05 |
rubenwardy |
a source code fork of an application is a different application |
| 21:05 |
rubenwardy |
just because they're similar doesn't make them the same application imo |
| 21:05 |
Shara |
rubenwardy: agreed |
| 21:06 |
Sokomine |
benrob0329: *g* that has something ,) |
| 21:06 |
Shara |
What I meant was more than they haven't really made a game that's different, not that it isn't a game |
| 21:06 |
Shara |
But if we can't call these things game, I guess MTG needs to rename to minetest_subgame? |
| 21:06 |
benrob0329 |
Inside The Box |
| 21:06 |
IhrFussel |
Extensions maybe? |
| 21:06 |
Shara |
Extensions to what? |
| 21:07 |
IhrFussel |
Extensions to the game engine |
| 21:07 |
Sokomine |
hm, each mod is an extension |
| 21:07 |
benrob0329 |
But the engine is useless by itself... |
| 21:07 |
Shara |
Extensions to the engine come as C++ commits, surely :D |
| 21:08 |
Fixer |
we need a new subgame, called "Minetest+", when you start it - giant middle finger is rendered in blocky form and then nice GAME END slightly below |
| 21:08 |
|
atorian37 joined #minetest-hub |
| 21:08 |
benrob0329 |
ITB is a game, MTG is a game (not a good game, but a game nonetheless) |
| 21:10 |
benrob0329 |
Minetest is an engine, and engines run games, so they are games. |
| 21:11 |
benrob0329 |
Mod are modifications to games which extend their functionality. |
| 21:11 |
Shara |
That, really. |
| 21:12 |
Fixer |
REM<RENAME MINETEST |
| 21:12 |
benrob0329 |
Fixer: please, don't. |
| 21:12 |
Fixer |
i've already suggested putting box subgame and that wuzzys one (mineclone2) |
| 21:13 |
rubenwardy |
-1 to mc2 |
| 21:13 |
rubenwardy |
not sure what "box" is |
| 21:13 |
benrob0329 |
Lets define what this thing is, then we can think of a good name |
| 21:13 |
Fixer |
rubenwardy: inside the box |
| 21:13 |
Shara |
Putting them where? |
| 21:13 |
Fixer |
into official distrib |
| 21:13 |
Fixer |
obviously |
| 21:13 |
Shara |
Hell no. |
| 21:13 |
rubenwardy |
well, that's currently closed source essentially and the developer doesn't want it |
| 21:13 |
rubenwardy |
it's also niche |
| 21:13 |
Shara |
^ |
| 21:14 |
Shara |
Also please avoid anything that is trying to be MC. |
| 21:14 |
Fixer |
it will suck then |
| 21:14 |
Fixer |
th(a)en |
| 21:14 |
benrob0329 |
ITB is open iirc, and its meant for a server |
| 21:14 |
Shara |
Where is the code? |
| 21:14 |
Fixer |
minecraft some very good gameplay ideas |
| 21:14 |
Fixer |
has* |
| 21:14 |
rubenwardy |
literally trying to be MC - not even trying to be MC - mtg is pretty annoyingly close - it's that it's exactly MC replicated |
| 21:15 |
Fixer |
rubenwardy: mt does not even have tool rendering, this is silly |
| 21:15 |
Calinou |
on the other hand, many people do want a Minecraft clone for various reasons |
| 21:15 |
Shara |
One of those working on it told me they would like to share it with me, since my "The Box" project would have benifited from it greatly. One of the others did not want to share it. But you say it's open? |
| 21:15 |
Shara |
Hmm. |
| 21:15 |
Calinou |
(it's gratis, it's not Java, it cares more about Linux support, etc) |
| 21:15 |
Calinou |
(Lua modding, too) |
| 21:15 |
Fixer |
rubenwardy: 3d weild tools, or how it is called |
| 21:15 |
Fixer |
rubenwardy: no mobs |
| 21:15 |
Fixer |
rubenwardy: no purpose |
| 21:16 |
rubenwardy |
I never said I don't want those features |
| 21:16 |
Shara |
Fixer: everytime we bring this up, it goes around in circles. |
| 21:16 |
Fixer |
pretty much MTG is sandbox |
| 21:16 |
Shara |
And some dev will say there are not enough devs. |
| 21:16 |
rubenwardy |
I said that MC2 is an exact reimplementation, which is a legal nightmare |
| 21:16 |
benrob0329 |
Stop |
| 21:16 |
benrob0329 |
Cease |
| 21:16 |
Shara |
But I have offered to help if anyone wants to chuck some task at me. No one chucks tasks. |
| 21:16 |
Fixer |
paramat says it is totally enough, i don't believe, MTG is lying with those tubes to keep it from dying |
| 21:17 |
Shara |
Well, I've already decided I will work on a game. |
| 21:17 |
benrob0329 |
Lets bring this back to the original discussion, what is Minetest (not MTG, not other subgames) |
| 21:17 |
Shara |
(no, I won't call it a subgame) |
| 21:17 |
Calinou |
rubenwardy: the main problem is reusing Minecraft's assets, here |
| 21:17 |
Calinou |
not the gameplay |
| 21:17 |
Fixer |
look mtg activity, it is pretty much paramat only with few occ people |
| 21:17 |
rubenwardy |
MC2 uses pixel perfect iirc |
| 21:17 |
rubenwardy |
not MC assets afaik |
| 21:17 |
Calinou |
yeah, it uses Faithful 32 textures |
| 21:17 |
Calinou |
and these are very close to Minecraft |
| 21:17 |
Fixer |
paramat keeps it from complete disaster |
| 21:18 |
Fixer |
it is on life support |
| 21:18 |
Shara |
MTG needs more things in it, but the lack of direction/agreement about that makes it slow. |
| 21:18 |
Fixer |
maybe as a sandbox, MTG is fine in that regards |
| 21:18 |
rubenwardy |
what should the direction of MTG be? |
| 21:18 |
Fixer |
needs some polish |
| 21:18 |
rubenwardy |
that would be a better descussion |
| 21:18 |
rubenwardy |
what does polish mean to you? |
| 21:18 |
Fixer |
rubenwardy: is not that was outlined already in nore github thing? |
| 21:19 |
Fixer |
rubenwardy: polish gameplay |
| 21:19 |
Shara |
rubenwardy: FIrst the devs should decide if it's meant to be a full game or a base of some kind. |
| 21:19 |
rubenwardy |
I want it to be a full game |
| 21:19 |
Fixer |
me too |
| 21:19 |
rubenwardy |
the issue is whenever it's changed people complain |
| 21:19 |
Fixer |
now it is sandbox |
| 21:19 |
benrob0329 |
*sigh* |
| 21:19 |
rubenwardy |
ie: it breaks their builds etc |
| 21:19 |
Shara |
I'd want full game that can be used as a base (meaning elements are modular and easy to turn on or off at will) |
| 21:19 |
Fixer |
who wants it sandox or survival or whtver |
| 21:19 |
benrob0329 |
This is why we never get anywhere |
| 21:19 |
Fixer |
,my typing ois horrible |
| 21:20 |
Shara |
So long as things are easy to disable if you don't want them, then no one should be upset about something getting added |
| 21:20 |
Fixer |
rubenwardy: nobody wants to work on MTG for some reason |
| 21:21 |
Shara |
Fixer: I've offered to help in any way that's useful |
| 21:21 |
rubenwardy |
Fixer: because every change causes massive politics |
| 21:21 |
Fixer |
yes |
| 21:21 |
Calinou |
reminds me, I fired up Minecraft today and I find the performance pretty disappointing |
| 21:21 |
Fixer |
it is shit storm |
| 21:21 |
Calinou |
HD textures still make the performance plummet (even 64x) |
| 21:21 |
Fixer |
it is dev process, very be-rocratic |
| 21:21 |
benrob0329 |
If we knew what it was, we could help develop it |
| 21:21 |
Fixer |
beurocratic |
| 21:21 |
Calinou |
I mean… I don't even have 60 FPS in this scene, I had 150+ FPS in a similar scene, years ago, on a much slower GPU |
| 21:21 |
Calinou |
https://media.hugo.pro/2017-11-10_22.20.49.png |
| 21:21 |
Shara |
benrob0329: exactly |
| 21:21 |
paramat |
'not tryng to be MC == sucks' hmm :] |
| 21:22 |
Fixer |
MC has some very good ideas, don't ignore them |
| 21:22 |
Fixer |
like inventory management |
| 21:22 |
Calinou |
this ^ |
| 21:22 |
Fixer |
minetest inv management not just sucks, it is deep throat |
| 21:22 |
Shara |
MT should simply not base decisions on what MC is or isn't |
| 21:22 |
paramat |
ITB obviously can't be a bundled game |
| 21:22 |
Calinou |
I don't play it much because I don't know of any nice community there, though |
| 21:22 |
Calinou |
public servers get boring fast |
| 21:22 |
Fixer |
YOU OWE ME A MOUSE WHEEL |
| 21:23 |
Fixer |
Calinou: same for MC |
| 21:23 |
Fixer |
mostly |
| 21:23 |
Fixer |
but there are interesting places |
| 21:23 |
LazyJ |
LibreOffice vs MS Office - geeks care about the code, other users just want to type a letter. |
| 21:24 |
LazyJ |
Same for MC and MT. |
| 21:24 |
paramat |
Fixer no i don't think MTG is complete or enough |
| 21:24 |
LazyJ |
Modeling MTG after MC would be sensible. |
| 21:24 |
benrob0329 |
But no one can decide on what it should be |
| 21:24 |
Shara |
paramat: there are people here willing to help with MTG if the devs work out what is wanted |
| 21:25 |
paramat |
i have many improvements coming, it's just slow work :] |
| 21:25 |
Fixer |
more about polishing, if you avoid REVOLUTION, add long waited features, like 3D tools in hands of other players, stuff like that |
| 21:25 |
Shara |
Then tell us how to help |
| 21:25 |
Calinou |
LazyJ: I don't think it has to be this way |
| 21:25 |
Calinou |
(the "free software isn't for non-geeks" thing) |
| 21:25 |
LazyJ |
Calinou: No, it doesn't. Just a starting point. |
| 21:26 |
Fixer |
0.5.0 already has lots of nice blocks to build, corner stairs is welcomed moved, it is good for building, has rails, but inv management sucks, game looks too simplistic |
| 21:26 |
benrob0329 |
Fixer: how about basic playability, since I can't steer the discussion back to basics anyways |
| 21:26 |
Shara |
LazyJ: Please no. It's already quite horrible put on the spot in a conference to try and explain how we're not just an MC clone. |
| 21:26 |
Fixer |
MTG is not bad as for sandbox |
| 21:26 |
Fixer |
just add 3d tools and it will be a sandbox |
| 21:26 |
Fixer |
and maybe some other features |
| 21:26 |
LazyJ |
benrob0329 is right, this argument has been going round and round for a long time and nothing comes of it except rehashing. |
| 21:27 |
Shara |
Actually some things do come of it. |
| 21:27 |
Shara |
But it's too slow |
| 21:27 |
Fixer |
Minetest was initially Minecraft Beta clone, at least I have that feeling (looks at cobble and gravel textures, and no hangar) |
| 21:28 |
LazyJ |
If/when someone comes up with a game, it has not been accepted. |
| 21:28 |
Fixer |
i play beta mc right now a lot, and it does feel a lot close to minetest |
| 21:28 |
LazyJ |
They exist, LOTT, Dreambuilder, for example. |
| 21:28 |
Fixer |
except minetest does not have mobs, armour and redstone |
| 21:28 |
rubenwardy |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+label%3A%22Concept+approved%22 |
| 21:28 |
Shara |
LOTT is based on LOTR, which wouldn't be suitable |
| 21:28 |
rubenwardy |
Fixer, *Minetest Game |
| 21:28 |
Fixer |
sure |
| 21:28 |
paramat |
MTG has direction, it is a simple core of a game for modding, and slowly it is being refined and improved and moved towards being a very simple game. we intend to have optional mobs |
| 21:28 |
Shara |
Dreambuilder is a modpack now |
| 21:28 |
LazyJ |
But if they are not packaged with the engine, then they don't get the exposure to players and are left to fade away. |
| 21:28 |
benrob0329 |
Ever MT playthrough I've had: Grind, shack, grind, house, grind, search for building spot, grind, build, grind, grind, think if thing to build, grind some more, then build, war, server gets abondoned |
| 21:29 |
Shara |
LazyJ: Yes, have been saying that. |
| 21:29 |
rubenwardy |
paramat: no. Disablable mods |
| 21:29 |
rubenwardy |
*mobs |
| 21:29 |
rubenwardy |
it needs to be opt out |
| 21:30 |
paramat |
it will always be a modding base because so much is based on it, but it can also be closer to a very simple game |
| 21:30 |
Fixer |
Calinou: i have impression that my X800GTO that is older than you* (hyperbole) runs faster with minetest than with minecraft, minetest is very CPU bound |
| 21:30 |
LazyJ |
A core dev has created a game but it can not or will not be bundled with the engine. What does that say about the prospects for future games? |
| 21:30 |
rubenwardy |
a modding base doesn't mean it's simple |
| 21:30 |
rubenwardy |
just look at that other game, it's a very good modding base |
| 21:30 |
Fixer |
Calinou: i was surprised that MC Beta 1.7.3 fps tanked from 150-300 to 40-80, and minetest one was still at 100 fps cap most of the time |
| 21:31 |
benrob0329 |
Simplicity can be fun, but it has to be fun |
| 21:31 |
Fixer |
Calinou: when I had to use old card from ~2006 |
| 21:31 |
paramat |
i don't ignore good elements of MC :] |
| 21:31 |
Fixer |
even in minecraft people are bored |
| 21:31 |
Fixer |
i see it all the time |
| 21:32 |
Fixer |
some kind of mob farming + redstone creativity is used to entertain a little more |
| 21:33 |
|
IhrFussel joined #minetest-hub |
| 21:33 |
Fixer |
also, mods I seen in MC, ... we need that in minetest |
| 21:33 |
Fixer |
oooh |
| 21:34 |
Fixer |
i need to check smth very bad about minetest or irrlicht, or ati drivers |
| 21:34 |
Shara |
The only way to get better mods, is for people to make them. |
| 21:34 |
Fixer |
with minetest you feel your VRAM and then walk some more - you can halt your PC (some sort of errors in drivers or smth) |
| 21:35 |
Fixer |
fill* |
| 21:35 |
Fixer |
everything halts, including sound |
| 21:35 |
Fixer |
only reset helps |
| 21:35 |
Fixer |
minecraft beta does not have this problem on this card |
| 21:36 |
paramat |
Fixer no-one is resisting new features, it's down to who has time to work on stuff, maybe you should actually contribute? |
| 21:36 |
Fixer |
very few people contribute to it, engine has lots, but not the game itself |
| 21:38 |
Shara |
Time to make some new games, everyones? |
| 21:38 |
Shara |
-s |
| 21:38 |
LazyJ |
The MT engine seems to only support MTG-like stuff. |
| 21:39 |
LazyJ |
To make radically different games, the engine would need to be able to support stuff very different from MTG or MC. |
| 21:39 |
Shara |
The engine has a specific type of game in mind, sure, but that's not to say the experience can't be very different |
| 21:39 |
LazyJ |
As it is, modders have to go to great lengths to overcome what the engine is limited to. |
| 21:39 |
Krock |
the MT engine supports everything that can be run by Lua. The problem is that modders need a base to rely on - which is MTG |
| 21:39 |
Shara |
Yea, that will always be a problem though. |
| 21:40 |
LazyJ |
So determining what games the engine is to support would lend to determining what to add in the engine. |
| 21:40 |
paramat |
rubenwardy yes i agree, disableable mobs, i don't mean optional as in default off :] |
| 21:40 |
paramat |
(sorry still catching up with chat) |
| 21:40 |
Shara |
Krock: I've actually started writing things for a seperate game, so I won't need MTG as a base much longer. |
| 21:40 |
Sokomine |
for me, mtg is the common base for almost other...er...whatever you want to call those entities |
| 21:40 |
Shara |
I don't expect it to be something I finish any time soon though |
| 21:42 |
|
Jordach joined #minetest-hub |
| 21:42 |
paramat |
LazyJ "A core dev has created a game but it can not or will not be bundled with the engine. What does that say about the prospects for future games?" referring to MC2? it should be obvious why it can't be bundled |
| 21:43 |
LazyJ |
paramat: I was refering to In The Box |
| 21:43 |
Fixer |
Calinou: https://i.imgur.com/nsKcfJp.png |
| 21:43 |
Sokomine |
Shara: how shall the poor devs know what "is wanted"? there are so many diffrent things that can be - and which are all equally right. like the house you can build in the game - it can be many things. spheres may get more tricky and work less well... |
| 21:43 |
rubenwardy |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/projects/1 |
| 21:44 |
Megaf |
You can just ask me... |
| 21:44 |
Megaf |
"What is "wanted"" |
| 21:44 |
Shara |
Sokomine: It's their game, so they should be able to decide. |
| 21:44 |
Sokomine |
fixer: inv management? how do you want to manage it? |
| 21:44 |
* Jordach |
has some fantastic crap |
| 21:44 |
LazyJ |
Look at the MT Server List - what mods are most commonly installed on servers. That would be a suggestion of things to add. |
| 21:44 |
rubenwardy |
paramat, please look through here: https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues?q=is%3Aopen+is%3Aissue+label%3A%22Concept+approved%22 |
| 21:44 |
Shara |
Otherwise, it goes nowhere much any time soon. |
| 21:44 |
paramat |
LazyJ no the MT engine can support a wide variety of game types, you can have a space game now etc. |
| 21:45 |
Fixer |
Sokomine: look minetest tutorials on item management it is awesome^3 |
| 21:45 |
Fixer |
Sokomine: *minecraft* |
| 21:45 |
Jordach |
>tfw i've done plenty of work without a word |
| 21:45 |
Shara |
I'm glad concept approval is a thing now. |
| 21:46 |
Shara |
But it only really helps if there is an agreed concept for the thing that is being approved |
| 21:47 |
Jordach |
my realtime atmos engine is coming along |
| 21:48 |
paramat |
LazyJ ITB isn't really suitable as it depends on pre-existing material and a server, maybe i'm wrong, sofar? |
| 21:48 |
Sokomine |
fixer: i've had that as well. almost. usually in combination with other processes. took some time to get the kill command through |
| 21:48 |
paramat |
no one has rejected ITB being bundled either, where was that decision made? we may still consider it |
| 21:48 |
LazyJ |
If the MT engine supports a variety of game types, then where are those games? Ultimately, it comes back to too few or none, devs, modders, or community members, willing to put in the time and effort to make and maintain sugbames. So the debates go nowhere for nothing. |
| 21:49 |
rubenwardy |
LazyJ, typo |
| 21:49 |
Shara |
LazyJ: As I've said, I've started working on one. |
| 21:49 |
rubenwardy |
*bugsames |
| 21:49 |
Shara |
And I'm serious enough about it to say that I am now. |
| 21:50 |
LazyJ |
rubenwardy: Occasional typos mean I'm human and not a bot (and less than perfect :)- ). |
| 21:50 |
Shara |
Sooner or later help will be welcome. QUite a bit might depend on that when the time comes. |
| 21:50 |
Krock |
<[°_°]> |
| 21:51 |
Krock |
| / Hey, I'm a robot |
| 21:51 |
Jordach |
beep boop beep |
| 21:52 |
* Sokomine |
programs krock to work 24/7 on mt |
| 21:52 |
rubenwardy |
<Fuchs> we discussed this a bit at #live, minetest these days has advancements, |
| 21:52 |
rubenwardy |
<Fuchs> *minecraft, sorry |
| 21:52 |
rubenwardy |
<Fuchs> and they give you goals to reach, like mine stuff to go to the nether, go to the end, kill the dragon etc. |
| 21:52 |
rubenwardy |
<Fuchs> I think that might be something nice for minetest, too |
| 21:52 |
rubenwardy |
from #minetest |
| 21:52 |
Krock |
Sokomine, segmentation fault |
| 21:52 |
rdococ |
LazyJ: confirmed robot that uses PRNG to generate seemingly random typos |
| 21:52 |
Fixer |
also |
| 21:53 |
Sokomine |
rubenwardy: there's at least one achievement mod (didn't you do one as well?). those can indeed be helpful for some type of players and some subgames. they can also be part of a story |
| 21:53 |
Fixer |
is it just me, or Technic is clone of Industrial Craft (JUST SAYING) |
| 21:53 |
Sokomine |
krock: hm, need to install more ram inside you :-) |
| 21:53 |
Fixer |
i'm in a mood for shitposting |
| 21:53 |
Krock |
Sokomine, 256 bytes ought to be enough |
| 21:54 |
Fixer |
rubenwardy: also, we have close to same fucking trees, why not add many schematics and use them randomly? good damn forest looks like the same |
| 21:54 |
Fixer |
rubenwardy: say, 5 verieties of apple, 5 of jungle, etc |
| 21:54 |
rdococ |
apple sucks |
| 21:55 |
Fixer |
there is variation in forests |
| 21:55 |
Fixer |
but it is not enough |
| 21:55 |
Krock |
rdococ, not THAT apple |
| 21:55 |
Fixer |
or maybe it is me |
| 21:55 |
Sokomine |
regarding subgames or games or however you want to call them - none is 100% perfect by now, and probably never will as there is always room for improvement. linking candidates so that players may find and install them easily would be a great step forward |
| 21:55 |
rdococ |
Krock, apple does suck th |
| 21:55 |
rdococ |
o |
| 21:55 |
Fixer |
have not seen much forests in my life |
| 21:56 |
Fixer |
my country is poor on forests |
| 21:56 |
rdococ |
The only time something manufactured by Microsoft won't suck is when they start manufacturing vacuum cleaners. ~some source I forgot |
| 21:56 |
Fixer |
rdococ: skype is also ruined by minecr^Wmicrosoft |
| 21:56 |
Sokomine |
most forrests do not tend to be made up of trees with a square ground. nature has few edges, so... |
| 21:58 |
paramat |
Fixer no need to rant about trees, the idea is fine and will probably happen, it's a case of priorities and contributor time. i don't know how to code random schem selection otherwise i would have done it by now |
| 21:58 |
benrob0329 |
#MakeTheTreesRoundAgain |
| 21:59 |
Shara |
paramat: wouldn't you just have to register more than one decoration? |
| 21:59 |
paramat |
also i'd like to add a smaller pine for variation, and a huge jungletree, working on it :] |
| 21:59 |
Sokomine |
benrob0329: just a statement regarding nature as such :-) but then, it does get a bit tricky to do large-scale reconfiguration of the real world. houses tend to be...slightly...expensive, and people do tend to get angry if you dig for gold and diamonds below their homes :-) |
| 22:00 |
Jordach |
https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=156&p=299692#p299692 |
| 22:00 |
Sokomine |
paramat: that sounds fine. can't have enough trees. that special forrest soil is also very nice and a good sight |
| 22:00 |
Jordach |
hold my beer |
| 22:00 |
Sokomine |
Jordach: no beer without a mod! :) |
| 22:00 |
rdococ |
there should be an option to make leaves walk-through |
| 22:00 |
paramat |
Shara that works but makes mapgen much slower, especially if there are many different schematics |
| 22:00 |
rdococ |
or maybe like cobwebs but not as slow |
| 22:00 |
rdococ |
like ladders |
| 22:01 |
Sokomine |
rdococ: beeing able to climb though them is also very nice. landrush has that |
| 22:01 |
* Shara |
can probably work out how to make it random |
| 22:01 |
LazyJ |
LG allows players to climb through leaves too. |
| 22:01 |
LazyJ |
Got the idea from deezl and CWz's Bluelobster-Pro server. |
| 22:02 |
LazyJ |
The additions and refinements to MTG exist among the servers. |
| 22:03 |
LazyJ |
Now, just collect them. |
| 22:03 |
Sokomine |
that's right :-) |
| 22:04 |
benrob0329 |
Can we have "sticky" material other than reducing gravity and such? |
| 22:04 |
Sokomine |
still, servers are a bit diffrent from singleplayer world. diffrent needs for mods |
| 22:06 |
Jordach |
servers can handle the load |
| 22:06 |
Jordach |
singleplayer clients might not be so |
| 22:06 |
Sokomine |
which load? |
| 22:06 |
Jordach |
the load of the entire game |
| 22:06 |
Jordach |
the API puts more strain than say a multiplayer client |
| 22:07 |
Jordach |
(unless you're me and perform 26 texture operations on a .x model) |
| 22:07 |
Jordach |
it even stalls my desktop |
| 22:07 |
Jordach |
as a client on a server |
| 22:08 |
Sokomine |
which game are you talking about right now? mt runs just fine most of the time. there are instances when it comes to a halt, but i'm pretty sure that's a bug somewhere. mc doesn't really run on my machine |
| 22:08 |
Jordach |
Sokomine, doesn't matter what, just mind the clientside load ;) |
| 22:10 |
paramat |
Shara sorry for delay, was catching up with chat, concerning your PM, we are. perhaps you could open an issue to discuss teleportation? you'd be the person for it as you have a good approach |
| 22:12 |
Shara |
Have been considering it. |
| 22:16 |
Fixer |
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-EUP6k2EGyQ some short keygen music for relax |
| 22:20 |
Jordach |
it can rain now |
| 22:20 |
Jordach |
https://jordach.net/k45scY.png |
| 22:20 |
Jordach |
it's light adjusted now https://jordach.net/J7c7JG.png |
| 22:21 |
Jordach |
some hinting might be skybox related ;) |
| 22:21 |
Fixer |
https://i.imgur.com/iED8iij.png |
| 22:21 |
Fixer |
a m b i e n c e |
| 22:22 |
Fixer |
there is new particle PR, but addparticle still slow |
| 22:22 |
Jordach |
Fixer, am adjusting the numbers |
| 22:23 |
Fixer |
Zen Minimap <3 |
| 22:23 |
Fixer |
i have no idea why the hell our minetest one is so slow |
| 22:24 |
Fixer |
https://i.imgur.com/rzwiFyl.png |
| 22:25 |
Jordach |
Fixer, rain https://jordach.net/gD4qwQ.png |
| 22:26 |
Fixer |
Jordach: noice clouds |
| 22:26 |
Fixer |
Jordach: don't see the particles |
| 22:26 |
* Sokomine |
hands paramat one of her travelnets |
| 22:26 |
Jordach |
even darker https://jordach.net/NxNVhq.png |
| 22:26 |
Jordach |
Fixer, to be continued |
| 22:27 |
Jordach |
hailstorm and thunder are even darker |
| 22:27 |
Shara |
travelnets aren't ideal in many ways |
| 22:28 |
Fixer |
people complain in minecraft about rain :D |
| 22:30 |
Fixer |
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0UGRR6MkVmE |
| 22:30 |
Jordach |
Fixer, thunder |
| 22:30 |
Jordach |
https://jordach.net/sRbtca.png |
| 22:30 |
rubenwardy |
!mod lightning |
| 22:30 |
ShadowBot |
rubenwardy: <lucky [mod] lightning site:forum.minetest.net> |
| 22:30 |
rubenwardy |
you such |
| 22:30 |
rubenwardy |
*suck |
| 22:30 |
Jordach |
rubenwardy, hold my beer |
| 22:30 |
rubenwardy |
!mod [lightning] |
| 22:30 |
ShadowBot |
rubenwardy: <lucky [mod] [lightning] site:forum.minetest.net> |
| 22:30 |
rubenwardy |
jesus |
| 22:30 |
rubenwardy |
https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=13886 |
| 22:31 |
rubenwardy |
there's literally only one mod called lightning |
| 22:31 |
Fixer |
chtulhu |
| 22:31 |
Jordach |
>no skybox changes |
| 22:31 |
Jordach |
>not during rain |
| 22:31 |
rubenwardy |
also, krock's mod search only returns that mod for that lightning |
| 22:31 |
rubenwardy |
Jordach: combine them |
| 22:31 |
Jordach |
rubenwardy, hold my fucking beer |
| 22:31 |
rubenwardy |
:D |
| 22:31 |
Fixer |
rubenwardy: and it was not usable for quite a long time, because lighting bugs (they were fixed eventually, kinda) |
| 22:31 |
Jordach |
fun fact |
| 22:31 |
rubenwardy |
are you going to be releasing this, Jordach? |
| 22:31 |
Jordach |
atmos exposes all data |
| 22:32 |
Jordach |
every var is configurable |
| 22:32 |
rubenwardy |
or is this some proprietary thing |
| 22:32 |
Jordach |
cloud thiccness |
| 22:32 |
Jordach |
etc |
| 22:32 |
Jordach |
https://jordach.net/6S4zUM.png |
| 22:32 |
rdococ |
Jordach, a word of advice: the best place to hold your beer is in your body. |
| 22:32 |
Jordach |
rubenwardy, even better, hold my fucking bleach |
| 22:32 |
rubenwardy |
jesus |
| 22:33 |
rubenwardy |
do you know about dictionaries? |
| 22:33 |
Jordach |
there's a reason |
| 22:33 |
Jordach |
overridability |
| 22:33 |
Jordach |
mods just depend and that's it |
| 22:33 |
rubenwardy |
atmos.register_weather({ colour = xx, type = 3}) |
| 22:33 |
Fixer |
Jordach: 0.4.15 /triggered |
| 22:33 |
rubenwardy |
you can override dictionaries :D |
| 22:33 |
Jordach |
https://jordach.net/lY3SVy.png |
| 22:33 |
Jordach |
Fixer, hmmmmmm |
| 22:33 |
rubenwardy |
that code looks like when I didn't know about classes in python back in the day |
| 22:34 |
rdococ |
atmos.register_weather = function () print("no weather 4u") end |
| 22:34 |
rubenwardy |
wrong |
| 22:34 |
rubenwardy |
atmos.register_weather = function () error("no weather 4u") end |
| 22:34 |
rubenwardy |
function atmos.register_weather() error("no weather 4u") end |
| 22:35 |
Fixer |
OOM |
| 22:35 |
rubenwardy |
no one such = function() |
| 22:35 |
rubenwardy |
*should |
| 22:35 |
rdococ |
I always = function (). |
| 22:35 |
rubenwardy |
ew :) |
| 22:35 |
Fixer |
why bother when you got OOM in the end :) |
| 22:35 |
rdococ |
atmos.register_weather = function () print("no weather 4u"); while true do end end; minetest.register_globalstep(function () atmos.register_weather() end) |
| 22:35 |
rdococ |
-- Ehehehehehe... |
| 22:36 |
Jordach |
rubenwardy, remember, most of this is designed for serverside use |
| 22:36 |
Jordach |
it's just easier to organise things even if there's plenty of them |
| 22:36 |
Jordach |
bonus easter egg |
| 22:36 |
Jordach |
atmos.weather_cloud_thicc[3] = 16 |
| 22:36 |
Jordach |
these clouds, are indeed thicc |
| 22:38 |
Fixer |
rdococ: huehuehue* |
| 22:40 |
IhrFussel |
bestmod = {} bestmod.function1 = function() blah end) bestmod.function2 = function() blah blah end) =P |
| 22:41 |
rubenwardy |
that code has two syntax errors |
| 22:41 |
rubenwardy |
Error: Expected EOF, found ) |
| 22:44 |
IhrFussel |
bestmod = {} bestmod.function1 = function() print("blah") end bestmod.function2 = function() print("blah blah") end ... |
| 22:49 |
IhrFussel |
I mostly work with minetest callbacks in Lua that's why I added the "end)" |
| 22:59 |
sofar |
heh, seems I missed out a bunch of relevant discussion regarding ITB |
| 22:59 |
sofar |
just to clarify, if that's even possible |
| 23:00 |
sofar |
the goal of ITB is to create a self-improving content stream that is playable online |
| 23:00 |
Fixer |
shadow render in beta 1.7.3 -> https://i.imgur.com/4ceSOY9.png |
| 23:00 |
sofar |
ITB in offline mode has no purpose |
| 23:00 |
sofar |
making a puzzle for yourself is rather silly |
| 23:01 |
Fixer |
disregard my screenshot - bad example |
| 23:01 |
Fixer |
will find smth better |
| 23:02 |
sofar |
it's possible that someone could make a "single player box adventure" out of it, though, with just a set of precompiled boxes and content to make it all run |
| 23:04 |
sofar |
currently the music used isn't even licensed in an appropriate way to package it with minetest |
| 23:04 |
sofar |
since it's -NC |
| 23:10 |
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Aerozoic joined #minetest-hub |
| 23:17 |
Fixer |
better example of shadow in mc beta: https://i.imgur.com/1WcUlDE.png |
| 23:18 |
Calinou |
yeah, smooth lighting didn't apply on water |
| 23:18 |
Calinou |
(does it do so, now?) |
| 23:18 |
Calinou |
(in Minecraft 1.1.2) |
| 23:18 |
Calinou |
1.12* |
| 23:33 |
Fixer |
don't remember |
| 23:33 |
Fixer |
in minetest it applies on water |
| 23:33 |
Fixer |
looks nice |
| 23:39 |
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Aerozoic joined #minetest-hub |
