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| 09:07 |
lisac |
Hey everyone maybe we could port Minetest into PowerPoint |
| 09:07 |
lisac |
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNjxe8ShM-8 |
| 09:51 |
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| 10:15 |
Raven262 |
Sokomine, I finished the new textures, check out the forum post. |
| 10:41 |
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| 10:41 |
IhrFussel |
So am I right with the assumption that 2 mods CANNOT depend on each other at the same time? |
| 10:42 |
IhrFussel |
It seems that's the case... I added "mobs" as dependency in my exp mod and "exp" as dependency in mobs/depends.txt ... and neither will load now |
| 10:46 |
IhrFussel |
As soon as I remove my exp mod from the mobs dependencies both mods will load again |
| 10:52 |
IhrFussel |
Seems like a major design flaw to me |
| 11:02 |
IhrFussel |
Now I have to integrate my exp mod as a lua file inside the mobs mod -.- |
| 11:06 |
Raven262 |
What did Calinou to moreblocks and stairsplus, stairsplus is inside moreblocks, maybe something like that would fix it, IhrFussel :P |
| 11:08 |
IhrFussel |
Raven262, it's a modpack I think...so you mean changing mobs mod into a modpack and move my mod to it? |
| 11:09 |
Raven262 |
wait, it was something different |
| 11:09 |
Raven262 |
Yes modpack will probalby solve it |
| 11:09 |
Raven262 |
But moreblocks has a mod inside a mod |
| 11:09 |
Raven262 |
idk how he did it though |
| 11:09 |
Raven262 |
In modpack mods usually depend on each other |
| 11:10 |
Raven262 |
that is possibly a workaround that bug that you've got |
| 11:11 |
IhrFussel |
It doesn't matter now I already changed all exp tables to mobs and moved my init.lua code to exp.lua in mobs/ |
| 11:11 |
Raven262 |
Well, it will work anyway :P |
| 11:12 |
IhrFussel |
I should be able to use the global table "mobs" from init.lua in my exp.lua right? |
| 11:13 |
Raven262 |
Of course |
| 11:13 |
Raven262 |
Why not? |
| 11:14 |
Raven262 |
Its global, afaik it can be loaded from anywhere |
| 11:18 |
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| 12:04 |
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| 12:13 |
IhrFussel |
But regarding my design flaw comment: I'm guessing right now the engine does NOT wait until all mod names are known and THEN compares the dependencies of them |
| 12:14 |
IhrFussel |
But it should wait until no names are left and THEN check if mod x inside mod y depends.txt exists and mod y inside mod x depends.txt exists |
| 12:16 |
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| 12:42 |
Raven262 |
Calinou, Do you have a Nexuiz server too? |
| 12:42 |
Calinou |
no, Nexuiz is dead |
| 12:42 |
Raven262 |
Damn |
| 12:42 |
Raven262 |
Xonotic then? |
| 12:56 |
KaadmY |
Xonotic <3 |
| 12:57 |
Raven262 |
I'm gonna install it now |
| 13:13 |
Raven262 |
IhrFussel, you there? |
| 13:14 |
Raven262 |
Ah no matter, found a solution. |
| 13:14 |
Raven262 |
Sorry for pinging. |
| 13:15 |
IhrFussel |
Raven262, I'm there now xP |
| 13:15 |
Raven262 |
Okay, what the teleport request command on your server? xD |
| 13:15 |
Raven262 |
My brother has joined and leveled to 10 |
| 13:16 |
Raven262 |
He wants to come to my dungeon |
| 13:17 |
IhrFussel |
I made it as accessible as possible...you can use common commands used for tp in Minetest /teleport, /tp or /tpr |
| 13:17 |
Raven262 |
Okay |
| 13:19 |
IhrFussel |
is your bother h... ? |
| 13:22 |
Raven262 |
Yea |
| 14:06 |
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| 14:12 |
lisac |
is swearing against the rules, IhrFussel? |
| 14:12 |
lisac |
sorry :( |
| 14:13 |
IhrFussel |
Not exactly swearing but "fucker" triggered the "check for insult" code |
| 14:14 |
IhrFussel |
"fuck" wouldn't kick you for example |
| 14:14 |
IhrFussel |
"fuck you" would again |
| 14:17 |
Shara |
Hello all |
| 14:17 |
lisac |
hey Shara |
| 14:17 |
Shara |
Hi lisac :) |
| 14:24 |
Raven262 |
Hello Shara |
| 14:25 |
twoelk |
hm, chequered insults - might look interesting |
| 14:27 |
* twoelk |
wonders wether this counts as <kleinkariert> |
| 14:31 |
twoelk |
so an insult chequered server might be plaid on |
| 14:34 |
* twoelk |
tries to focus on calculating some ventilation duct sizes again |
| 14:40 |
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| 14:53 |
* red-001 |
wonders whu |
| 14:53 |
red-001 |
why* |
| 15:18 |
* nerzhul |
wonderwhuman |
| 15:20 |
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Krock joined #minetest-hub |
| 15:20 |
Krock |
o/ |
| 15:27 |
benrob0329 |
Having to use my old tablet since my phone screen broke, it holds up rather well |
| 15:28 |
benrob0329 |
Some things are kinda slow |
| 15:29 |
benrob0329 |
But after turning off all animations, and forcing GPU rendering, and rooting it, removing apps, and turning off stuff at boot, it runs good for most things |
| 15:36 |
Krock |
tried installing gentoo yet? |
| 15:36 |
Krock |
^ benrob0329 |
| 15:37 |
benrob0329 |
Krock: would need android display server |
| 15:43 |
Krock |
benrob0329, I was just kidding ;) |
| 15:46 |
benrob0329 |
Krock: well, ive actually thought about it so...XD |
| 16:30 |
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| 16:53 |
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| 16:55 |
shivajiva |
I see raymoo is willing to create and distribute modified clients when the project doesn't meet his approval...interesting attitude... |
| 17:21 |
Shara |
Seems like he backed down and was just trying to teach us some kind of (very unneeded and unwanted) lesson |
| 17:25 |
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| 17:38 |
nore |
could we just close this issue please? there is *absolutely no way* to do that, none at all |
| 17:39 |
Shara |
nore: the precise suggestion of the issue aside, is there really nothing at all that can be done to limit the problems we're having in some way? |
| 17:39 |
nore |
Shara: server-side cheat detection |
| 17:40 |
Shara |
but that doesnt seem to be happening |
| 17:40 |
nore |
you *have* to assume the clients are untrustworthy, because there is not way you can assume they are |
| 17:40 |
nore |
yeah, well, it is complicated |
| 17:40 |
Shara |
as I've posted in the issue, I just want a solution |
| 17:40 |
Shara |
I dont want this specific one, but it's all that is being put forward |
| 17:41 |
nore |
but the energy should be put into server-side cheat detection instead into verifying that the client has not been modified, because it is not possible |
| 17:41 |
Shara |
Is there any chance of seeing progress on that then? |
| 17:41 |
nore |
whatever you try to do, it is trivial to just change the source code to fake an official client |
| 17:42 |
nore |
well, I hope so - but not from me for now, as I'm not coding mt stuff at the moment |
| 17:42 |
Shara |
we see lots of new things, like CSM, which though great opens up more issues... and very little work done on security |
| 17:43 |
Shara |
and a lot of server owners are unhappy about this |
| 17:44 |
Shara |
I have actually had to prevent new players joining one of my servers because of this. |
| 17:45 |
Shara |
I try to open the server to new players again every time I can, but even then I've had a couple get through who made problems |
| 17:46 |
Shara |
One idiot with a "hacked" client and the ability to change IP address can pretty much hold a server hostage as it stands |
| 18:13 |
garywhite |
What's all this then? (I was on another network, joined mid-conversation, so I only have about 20 lines scrollback) |
| 18:14 |
Shara |
gary, you can check the log like anyone |
| 18:14 |
garywhite |
right, I forgot about the log. |
| 18:16 |
garywhite |
who is raymoo? |
| 18:17 |
sofar |
There are many ways to defeat 'oredetect' btw |
| 18:17 |
sofar |
same with csm chat mods |
| 18:17 |
sofar |
just rate limit messages and kick when a client sends 2 messages within 1 second |
| 18:17 |
sofar |
heck, IRC even does that |
| 18:18 |
rubenwardy |
rate limiting is already implemented |
| 18:18 |
sofar |
what actually is the biggest problem ? |
| 18:19 |
Shara |
for me, people able to give themselves fly/noclip and to avoid damage |
| 18:19 |
sofar |
that should be detectable server-side |
| 18:19 |
sofar |
so let's work on a solution that covers that |
| 18:20 |
sofar |
any player that has a vertical velocity of 0 for more than 2 server ticks and isn't standing on a node is cheating |
| 18:20 |
Shara |
any solution is good by me |
| 18:21 |
Shara |
so long as it works and doesnt put too much strain on the server |
| 18:21 |
Shara |
The server in question is a PVP server, and people are using these things to get an unfair advantage |
| 18:21 |
Shara |
Like noclipping through walls to attack people who thought they were safe, and so on |
| 18:22 |
garywhite |
Not more hackers |
| 18:22 |
Calinou |
<Shara> One idiot with a "hacked" client and the ability to change IP address can pretty much hold a server hostage as it stands |
| 18:23 |
Calinou |
a Minecraft server I played on (and a Sauerbraten server) had a way to detect VPNs fairly reliably |
| 18:23 |
Calinou |
(including self-hosted ones on rented VPSes) |
| 18:23 |
Calinou |
https://github.com/pisto/ASkidban |
| 18:23 |
sofar |
detecting VPNs should be doable |
| 18:23 |
sofar |
but it would require some more work |
| 18:24 |
Shara |
I'm less worried about the ban dodgers if they cant do the other things |
| 18:25 |
sofar |
Calinou: entirely feasible to build that with mods & external services |
| 18:25 |
sofar |
you can do a lot more with minetest even |
| 18:36 |
Hijiri |
sofar: what if a player is lagging and doesn't send updates in time |
| 18:37 |
Hijiri |
also should note that "vertical velocity" can't come from get_player_velocity because that can be faked |
| 18:37 |
red-001 |
Hijiri, then they have bad luck? |
| 18:38 |
Hijiri |
red-001: you shouldn't be banned for bad luck |
| 18:38 |
Hijiri |
though I guess nobody said ban |
| 18:38 |
Hijiri |
could just notify admins |
| 18:38 |
red-001 |
just kick them or something |
| 18:38 |
red-001 |
they didn't have a good connection anyway |
| 18:38 |
Hijiri |
it could have been a lag spike |
| 18:39 |
Hijiri |
what if the player is jumping over lava or something and they get saved over lava |
| 18:39 |
red-001 |
can't help it |
| 18:39 |
Hijiri |
you can help it by not kicking |
| 18:39 |
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| 18:39 |
red-001 |
either you get anticheat with some false positives or no anticheat |
| 18:39 |
Hijiri |
you can notify a mod to look at the user |
| 18:40 |
red-001 |
that's just how life is |
| 18:40 |
Hijiri |
A better way to detect would be to only try to detect fliers in motion |
| 18:40 |
Hijiri |
flying is not useful unless you are moving so that is good enough |
| 18:40 |
Hijiri |
well, unless you were moving at some point |
| 18:41 |
red-001 |
I say it's very much useful without moving |
| 18:41 |
red-001 |
think falling |
| 18:41 |
Hijiri |
yes, but you could do that with the "0 vertical velocity" check too |
| 18:41 |
Hijiri |
just release fly before you stop completely |
| 18:42 |
sofar |
client lag is known, btw |
| 18:42 |
sofar |
you could account for it |
| 18:43 |
Hijiri |
isn't that average lag? |
| 18:43 |
sofar |
averages are calculated by what? |
| 18:43 |
Hijiri |
I guess if it's in the engine you could wait for packets to arrive |
| 18:43 |
Hijiri |
sofar: I don't know, maybe a running average is kept of packet latencies? |
| 18:44 |
sofar |
exactly, there is raw data somewhere |
| 18:44 |
Hijiri |
Why not just wait for the next movement update then, instead of 2 ticks or whatever |
| 18:44 |
Hijiri |
you won't know how much a player lagged on a particular update until that update arrives |
| 18:44 |
sofar |
what if a player is hovering in a spot? |
| 18:45 |
sofar |
but sure |
| 18:45 |
Hijiri |
They should still be sending updates if not lagging, right? |
| 18:45 |
Hijiri |
IF lagging, you can't tell if they are hovering or falling whil lagging |
| 18:45 |
sofar |
no movement -> no updates I think |
| 18:45 |
Hijiri |
really? I didn't know, but I guess that makes sense |
| 18:45 |
Hijiri |
So how would you distinguish someone who is lagging while falling from someone hovering with fly |
| 18:46 |
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| 18:51 |
Shara |
I'd prefer it not to be an auto ban, just for something to happen to make the actually cheating itself pointless, if possible |
| 18:52 |
Shara |
Like, fast is already kind of dealt with in a way that makes it annoying to cheat for |
| 18:53 |
lisac |
hey why not force the player to land if they are in open air for more than 5 seconds? |
| 18:53 |
lisac |
cheater would have to go up down up down |
| 18:53 |
lisac |
and legitimate players wouldn't get stuck in air |
| 18:53 |
Shara |
they could still noclip through a wall in that time |
| 18:53 |
Shara |
that's the main issue for me, more than fly itself |
| 18:54 |
Shara |
though the damage avoidance is worse again |
| 18:55 |
Shara |
Thankfully that seems far rarer than fly/noclip though |
| 18:58 |
lisac |
maybe check every second if player is inside a node, then record it? |
| 18:58 |
lisac |
don't punish the player for one time, but if he is in node a couple of times, like 3, he gets punished? |
| 18:58 |
lisac |
that way, players stuck due to lag don't get punished |
| 18:58 |
sofar |
kill the player |
| 18:59 |
* lisac |
> Amon Amarth - The Fate Of Norns - [ Fate Of Norns #3 ] - [ 04:24 / 05:57 ] |
| 18:59 |
sofar |
prevent resurrecting for 15 seconds |
| 18:59 |
sofar |
second time, 1 minute |
| 18:59 |
sofar |
third time, 15 minutes |
| 18:59 |
sofar |
if they log off while dead, ban them for 4 hours |
| 19:00 |
* lisac |
> Amon Amarth - The Fate Of Norns - [ Fate Of Norns #3 ] - [ 05:27 / 05:57 ] |
| 19:00 |
lisac |
awesome |
| 19:00 |
Krock |
final repost before leaving: https://i.redd.it/fjcv9evg6u8z.png we should use this code. looks advanced. |
| 19:00 |
lisac |
moment |
| 19:01 |
lisac |
my script got triggered on NOWPLAYING2 |
| 19:01 |
lisac |
CTCP |
| 19:01 |
lisac |
but instead of sending it to the right channel, it sent it to whatever channel I was in |
| 19:01 |
lisac |
Krock, we can beat that record |
| 19:02 |
Krock |
yes, luckily github has a large file feature ... somehow |
| 19:02 |
KaadmY |
Git doesn't support files larger than 500mb IIRC |
| 19:02 |
KaadmY |
Github has a special thing for those |
| 19:06 |
lisac |
maybe we could remove mapgens and keep a few fully generated maps in the repo |
| 19:06 |
lisac |
that should beat the record by a couple TB |
| 19:06 |
lisac |
fully generated, ex. 32 000 all directions |
| 19:48 |
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| 20:04 |
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| 20:15 |
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| 20:30 |
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| 20:45 |
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| 20:54 |
Jordach |
>gets AKG monitors |
| 20:54 |
Jordach |
hnnnnnng |
| 20:57 |
Megaf |
hm |
| 20:57 |
Megaf |
I'm happy with my SONY |
| 20:57 |
Megaf |
wait |
| 20:57 |
Megaf |
monitor as in audio monitor? As in speaker |
| 20:59 |
Megaf |
Jordach: I got these https://proclockers.com/reviews/audio/genius-sp-hf800a-3-way-wood-speakers |
| 21:00 |
Megaf |
And they are actually good |
| 21:00 |
Jordach |
Megaf, AKG K271 MKII |
| 21:00 |
Megaf |
oh |
| 21:00 |
Megaf |
headphone monitors |
| 21:01 |
Megaf |
I got this one http://www.philips.co.uk/c-p/SHL5800_10/headband-headphones/specifications |
| 21:01 |
Megaf |
Frequency response |
| 21:01 |
Megaf |
10–28,000 Hz |
| 21:02 |
Jordach |
LUL |
| 21:02 |
Megaf |
I used the AKG already |
| 21:02 |
Jordach |
it's not the HZ range, its the reproductional ability |
| 21:02 |
Megaf |
but I hate it how it feels |
| 21:04 |
Megaf |
Jordach: your headphone and mine are similar in specifications tho |
| 21:05 |
Megaf |
yours is louder tho |
| 21:05 |
Megaf |
but mine are already loud enough to make my ears bleed |
| 21:08 |
Fixer |
gonna make a moove? https://github.com/minetest-mods/moreblocks/pull/79 |
| 21:22 |
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