| Time |
Nick |
Message |
| 00:00 |
Shara |
Mwahahaha |
| 00:02 |
Fixer |
hmm |
| 00:02 |
Fixer |
have not had eclair for a year or so |
| 00:03 |
Shara |
Fixer: You will obviously need to join the let's-go-visit-Vanessa-for-eclairs expedition. |
| 00:04 |
Fixer |
i'm fine with food for now, good night |
| 00:04 |
Shara |
Good night :) |
| 00:04 |
|
bigfoot547 joined #minetest-hub |
| 00:17 |
garywhite |
Just don't fly United |
| 01:15 |
LazyJ |
Reading over todays archives, if I understand correctly Shara 's DarkLands server was attacked by someone using a hacked client that enabled them to use the /kill command to kill players. |
| 01:16 |
Shara |
LazyJ: Seems like. I haven't managed to be present in game when it happens to verify though, and can't find anything in the logs. |
| 01:16 |
LazyJ |
So if that command were automated, how many players can be run off from servers to the point they never want to return? |
| 01:16 |
Shara |
That's the issue. |
| 01:16 |
LazyJ |
10 players every 10 seconds, iirc. |
| 01:17 |
Shara |
I haven't ruled out there being anything useful int he logs yet, just haven't had enough time |
| 01:17 |
Shara |
So DL is now closed to new players until I do have enough time to really look at things. |
| 01:18 |
Shara |
I don't like it, but at least it means the regular players can carry on playing |
| 01:18 |
Shara |
And come next weekend, I'll have some time again |
| 01:25 |
|
lumidify_ joined #minetest-hub |
| 01:29 |
|
ssieb joined #minetest-hub |
| 01:56 |
|
octacian joined #minetest-hub |
| 02:17 |
|
kaeza joined #minetest-hub |
| 05:51 |
|
nerzhul joined #minetest-hub |
| 06:17 |
|
CWz joined #minetest-hub |
| 06:59 |
nerzhul |
hurry up ! we need more translations for release ! |
| 06:59 |
nerzhul |
https://hosted.weblate.org/translate/minetest/minetest/ |
| 07:03 |
TommyTreasure |
!tell IhrFussel I just grepped all of MY saved logs for angel*. There is NO LOG ENTRTY for that user EVER logging to DarkLands. If that player's ip matched one of a banned player, that player's ban would have been the result of another players action, and would result in that player seeing the same reason for a ban. |
| 07:03 |
ShadowBot |
TommyTreasure: O.K. |
| 07:04 |
TommyTreasure |
|
| 07:04 |
TommyTreasure |
!tell IhrFussel In response to the reference of 'human rights', let me just say that if I run MY OWN SERVER (and NOT referring to DarkLands or anyone else's server), players are now a visitor of MY HOUSE. I am not selling a product, nor am I selling a service. Therefore I am not bound by any rights nor am I bound by any law, and I can kick or ban for any reason I want. It makes no difference if you or anyone else thinks I |
| 07:04 |
ShadowBot |
TommyTreasure: O.K. |
| 07:04 |
TommyTreasure |
either right or wrong in my decision. I am the MASTER of MY CASTLE! |
| 07:04 |
|
DS-minetest joined #minetest-hub |
| 07:04 |
TommyTreasure |
!tell IhrFussel When I'm acting as moderator on DarkLands, I do my best to follow Shara's guidelines, even if I disagree with them. I've made mistakes in bans, and I've done my best to reverse those that I feel were in error. Shara, as well as any other moderator at DarkLands has the ability to, access to, and free will to reverse any ban I make, without my giving an argument. |
| 07:04 |
ShadowBot |
TommyTreasure: O.K. |
| 07:05 |
TommyTreasure |
!tell IhrFussel If a player argues with me and posts insults to me, the admins, or another player or even insults the server, I will ban them for that reason. In some cases, just a temporary ban. However, if they post profanity in game chat, and depending on severity of the profanity, I may, and in most cases, WILL BAN without warning. |
| 07:05 |
ShadowBot |
TommyTreasure: O.K. |
| 07:05 |
TommyTreasure |
!tell IhrFussel If a player joins DarkLands with the intention of, or showing a play style of destruction, harassment of other players, or to just create havoc in the game, I do watch their actions very closely. If that player shows activity of using methods of elevated privlege, I now focus on them. This is not only my right as moderator, its my duty to the admin and server team. And, my duty especially to the other players |
| 07:05 |
ShadowBot |
TommyTreasure: O.K. |
| 07:05 |
TommyTreasure |
in the game. |
| 07:05 |
TommyTreasure |
!tell IhrFussel For what it's worth, your posts in #minetest-hub regarding this subject, closely resemble the style of language used in the comments made to me by the attackers, and your use of 'upper case i' in your nickname closely matches most of the player names used in those attacks. Because of this, if you were to log into DarkLands with your irc nickname as your player name, I especially would watch your actions very |
| 07:05 |
ShadowBot |
TommyTreasure: O.K. |
| 07:05 |
TommyTreasure |
closely, and if you strayed from the rules, I would have no problem setting a ban on you, and probably without giving warning. Just saying. :) |
| 07:11 |
CWz |
TommyTreasure, I hate it when players don't get that |
| 07:13 |
TommyTreasure |
some of these people just can't accept the fact that on DarkLands as well as many other servers, player age is under 14 |
| 07:14 |
TommyTreasure |
the majority, that is |
| 07:14 |
TommyTreasure |
the majority of player age, to be more specific |
| 07:49 |
Shara |
morning all |
| 07:49 |
DS-minetest |
good morning Shara |
| 08:32 |
|
Raven262 joined #minetest-hub |
| 08:34 |
|
DS-minetest joined #minetest-hub |
| 08:35 |
CWz |
a Shara |
| 08:55 |
|
cx384 joined #minetest-hub |
| 08:56 |
cx384 |
hi all |
| 08:57 |
nerzhul |
i'm testing the android build before release |
| 08:57 |
nerzhul |
to ensure it works as intended |
| 08:57 |
nerzhul |
i hope i can pull a more recent mtg |
| 09:00 |
TommyTreasure |
nerzhul, i've heard from a few players using the app from minetest.net, having problems with screen movement. they're saying its way too sensitive |
| 09:01 |
Shara |
!tell IhrFussel Okay, now I know why Angelo may have been banned many places. He's the player who has impersonated me (and other well known admins) on multiple servers in attempts to easily get higher privs |
| 09:01 |
ShadowBot |
Shara: O.K. |
| 09:02 |
Shara |
!tell IhrFussel He's succeeded in doing that at least three times, getting full privs on servers (then damaging them) by using my name. He's also tried the same thing and failed on VE servers and a few others. |
| 09:02 |
ShadowBot |
Shara: O.K. |
| 09:03 |
Shara |
!tell IhrFussel And I'm sorry if you disagree, but I fully support that any admin bans such a player on sight without attempts at discussion (in part because meaningful discussion with him seems impossible - I tried many times) |
| 09:03 |
ShadowBot |
Shara: O.K. |
| 09:05 |
Shara |
!tell IhrFussel feel free to confirm this with garywhite or stormchaser. They both had problems due to him as well. |
| 09:05 |
ShadowBot |
Shara: O.K. |
| 09:05 |
Shara |
And that, I hope, is the end of that little mystery. |
| 09:06 |
Shara |
Though he almost certainly wasn't the hacked client user. |
| 09:06 |
Shara |
With that, I'm off for the day. See you all laters :) |
| 09:06 |
* TommyTreasure |
thinks InhrFussel has some reading to do when he logs in. |
| 09:09 |
DS-minetest |
and ShadowBot has much to tell |
| 09:15 |
TommyTreasure |
i've noticed that there is a small group of players that think a bad admin is one who doesn't agree with their desires |
| 09:16 |
TommyTreasure |
as moderator, i've said so many times -- being a judge, jury, prosecutor, executioner, and still being a friend to players, is one tough job! |
| 09:25 |
Raven262 |
I agree with this completely. |
| 09:36 |
TommyTreasure |
i have to apologize for my lengthy posts, but so many things seem to be taken out of context. |
| 10:00 |
|
LazyJ joined #minetest-hub |
| 10:18 |
|
Fixer joined #minetest-hub |
| 10:30 |
TommyTreasure |
someone had mentioned a bug in the xban mod. can someone post or pm the particulars of the bug, and if the exploit is known? |
| 10:31 |
|
lisac joined #minetest-hub |
| 10:32 |
red-001 |
well I know it used to have a bug |
| 10:33 |
red-001 |
but afaik it was fixed last year |
| 10:33 |
red-001 |
https://github.com/minetest-mods/xban2/commit/877e55078718047323ce2d5b07d004c05414aaf5 |
| 11:33 |
|
Jordach joined #minetest-hub |
| 11:34 |
|
Krock joined #minetest-hub |
| 11:34 |
Krock |
Hello everybody |
| 11:36 |
red-001 |
hi Krock |
| 11:36 |
Thomas-S |
Hello, Krock! |
| 11:38 |
|
Jordach joined #minetest-hub |
| 11:39 |
|
DS-minetest joined #minetest-hub |
| 11:41 |
DS-minetest |
lol, the logs of #minetest are now only one column. i assume the count of months is a prime number |
| 11:46 |
TommyTreasure |
red-001, i don't have physical access to the xban.db file at DarkLands, but from what both Shara and sniper have told me, bans were removed. Also, the timing seemed to coincide while a 'suspicious player' was in the game. |
| 11:51 |
TommyTreasure |
red-001, i'm not sure if the file had been truncated or just selectively modified, but i do know that there have been numerous bans i've made in the past, that were no longer showing. |
| 11:56 |
TommyTreasure |
red-001, and as a point of fact, on june 1, i re-banned every ban i had made since february 2017, and only the bans made after our 'attack' showed as 'already banned'. |
| 11:58 |
TommyTreasure |
red-001, that leads me to believe that somewhere in the game, or in the mods used on DarkLands has a hole for exploit. might just be my suspicious personality, but i also don't believe in this type of coincidence. |
| 11:59 |
TommyTreasure |
has a hole = there may be a hole |
| 12:03 |
TommyTreasure |
and since i'm the prime target of the "Permutation Team", i'd sure like to know my soon to be public server is properly locked down. |
| 12:03 |
Fixer |
*,...,* |
| 12:08 |
VaultyTowers |
theres a whole in the shops mod |
| 12:08 |
VaultyTowers |
hole* |
| 12:10 |
Fixer |
VaultyTowers: via chest inspector? |
| 12:10 |
VaultyTowers |
idk |
| 12:13 |
Fixer |
"Toast sounds confirmed for 1.12!" /wat? |
| 12:13 |
TommyTreasure |
smart_shop? |
| 12:15 |
TommyTreasure |
if so, could you pm me the specifics so i can double check on my test server please? |
| 12:17 |
red-001 |
I don't get what the deal with the chest inspector mod is |
| 12:17 |
red-001 |
afaik it shouldn't work |
| 12:18 |
|
NathanS21 joined #minetest-hub |
| 12:21 |
red-001 |
they use diffrent formspec handlers |
| 12:22 |
red-001 |
well seeing is believing so I suppose thats what I should do |
| 12:30 |
red-001 |
nvm |
| 12:30 |
red-001 |
well that should be fixed |
| 12:32 |
TommyTreasure |
what i'm mainly interested in would be a leak that would a player to truncate, delete or modify the xban.db file at will |
| 12:32 |
TommyTreasure |
i know for a fact the file was changed at least 2 times in the past 2 months |
| 12:33 |
TommyTreasure |
^^^^^ at darklands |
| 12:34 |
TommyTreasure |
and the log entry of 'unbanned playername' is not being recorded |
| 12:35 |
red-001 |
what does the "darklands" mod do? |
| 12:36 |
TommyTreasure |
allows lack of light to be a kill method |
| 12:36 |
TommyTreasure |
hazard, rather |
| 12:37 |
TommyTreasure |
i believe it also comes with hbhunger for the 'eyeball' display |
| 12:37 |
red-001 |
so what is "bewarethedark" then? |
| 12:37 |
TommyTreasure |
i think that's the name of the mod or subgame. not totally sure on which one. |
| 12:38 |
red-001 |
well I'm just reading through the mod list |
| 12:38 |
red-001 |
wondering which one could be the exploitable one |
| 12:39 |
TommyTreasure |
this would be the better place to explore https://github.com/bendeutsch/minetest-bewarethedark |
| 12:39 |
red-001 |
so thats the lack of ligth is dangerous mod right? |
| 12:40 |
red-001 |
so "darklands" must be a custom mod for the server right? |
| 12:40 |
TommyTreasure |
i would assume so, but afik, the link is what shara uses |
| 12:40 |
TommyTreasure |
used* |
| 12:40 |
TommyTreasure |
for her game |
| 12:41 |
red-001 |
alright I would check custom mods for exploits first |
| 12:41 |
red-001 |
since the chances are less people had a chance to review the code for those |
| 12:42 |
red-001 |
(but then worldedit was really popular and it had a remote code execution exploit) |
| 12:42 |
TommyTreasure |
i've only know shara since last fall, but i'm fully confident she's been through each and every mod with a fine tooth comb. |
| 12:42 |
TommyTreasure |
had, but as of when? |
| 12:43 |
TommyTreasure |
and has it been fixed? if so, when? |
| 12:43 |
red-001 |
for a few years it had an exploit |
| 12:43 |
red-001 |
I got fixed a few weeks ago |
| 12:43 |
red-001 |
it* |
| 12:44 |
TommyTreasure |
would that allow for the removal of a file on the server? |
| 12:44 |
red-001 |
definatly |
| 12:44 |
red-001 |
but you don't have worldedit on the server |
| 12:44 |
TommyTreasure |
with a normal client? |
| 12:44 |
TommyTreasure |
i think it is there, but only enabled when needed |
| 12:44 |
red-001 |
well it required small modifications |
| 12:45 |
red-001 |
note: small |
| 12:45 |
red-001 |
you just had to fake a formspec submission |
| 12:45 |
TommyTreasure |
to this day, i have never even tried to work with a modified client, and i really don't plan on it in the future either |
| 12:46 |
red-001 |
the sort of thing that basic security would solve |
| 12:46 |
TommyTreasure |
but knowing it can be modified easily would be of interest to me and probably a few other admins too |
| 12:47 |
TommyTreasure |
red, i'm still on the noob side of m/t as an admin, so a lot of this is super important for me |
| 12:47 |
red-001 |
well welcome to computer security 101 |
| 12:48 |
red-001 |
our motto is "don't trust the client" |
| 12:48 |
TommyTreasure |
right now, i'm semi-retired and disabled enough to let me spend all my awake hours in front of my screen, so i plenty of time to research and fix my stuff before it goes public |
| 12:49 |
TommyTreasure |
knowing what to look for, and how to quickly fix is what i'm looking for. |
| 12:49 |
TommyTreasure |
right now, i've set a crontab to backup my xban.db file ever 4 hours |
| 12:49 |
TommyTreasure |
and keep an archive for 2 months |
| 12:50 |
red-001 |
well basicly it seems most exploits I have seen in mods are caused by a single mistake |
| 12:50 |
TommyTreasure |
as well as full world directory backups once a day |
| 12:50 |
red-001 |
they trust that a formspec must be sent to the client in order to get formspec submission |
| 12:51 |
TommyTreasure |
i know its a tough job to do, but a forum topic for know issues, restricted access, would be great! |
| 12:51 |
TommyTreasure |
known* |
| 12:51 |
TommyTreasure |
restricted - registered and vetted forum members |
| 12:51 |
red-001 |
so when they recievce a formspec called for instance "super_secrect_admin_panel" they just do their thing before checking if the player that summited it is an admin |
| 12:53 |
red-001 |
well I suppose I could write a PSA about the correct handling of formspecs |
| 12:53 |
TommyTreasure |
so, that would depend on server lag for execution? |
| 12:54 |
red-001 |
I think a flow diagram would explain this best |
| 12:54 |
TommyTreasure |
not that its funny, but there was an old joke in the dos days of bbs's. 'to save disk space, delete all files beginning with README' |
| 12:55 |
TommyTreasure |
but how about for the 'non-coding literate' admins, such as me? |
| 12:56 |
TommyTreasure |
i can get through the easier stuff like spawn chance, drop items, and things like that, but i'm at a loss for anything more complex |
| 13:02 |
|
stormchaser3000 joined #minetest-hub |
| 13:04 |
|
stormchaser3000 joined #minetest-hub |
| 13:21 |
red-001 |
https://github.com/red-001/diagrams/blob/master/Untitled%20Diagram.svg |
| 13:27 |
TommyTreasure |
red-001, makes very good sense, ty |
| 13:32 |
red-001 |
alright I made an updated version that should be more clear, I might post it on the forum later |
| 13:36 |
red-001 |
oh the forum doesn't allow embedded base64 encoded images |
| 13:36 |
|
CWz joined #minetest-hub |
| 13:38 |
TommyTreasure |
i need to go out of town for the day. won't be back till tomorrow. i'll look for it then |
| 13:40 |
|
sniper338 joined #minetest-hub |
| 13:41 |
red-001 |
well this is the best I can do for now https://github.com/red-001/diagrams/blob/master/formspec%20spoofing.pdf |
| 13:41 |
|
sniper338 joined #minetest-hub |
| 13:42 |
|
sniper338 joined #minetest-hub |
| 13:43 |
|
sniper338 joined #minetest-hub |
| 13:49 |
|
IhrFussel joined #minetest-hub |
| 13:51 |
red-001 |
hi IhrFussel |
| 13:51 |
red-001 |
bad connection sniper338 ? |
| 13:56 |
IhrFussel |
TommyTreasure, Accusing me of being a suspicious person is NOT nice by the way...you shouldn't use the name for any kind of accusations ESPECIALLY when you don't even understand what the user name means in the first place ... and I still disagree with you...ONLY because my house is owned by me does NOT mean I can do whatever the f*** I want with my guests! |
| 13:57 |
IhrFussel |
I have to follow laws, I SHOULD follow common sense...I should RESPECT everybody as much as I can |
| 14:01 |
red-001 |
imho server owners can do whatever they want with there servers as long as they don't break the laws, but that doesn't mean you can't think less of them if they don't act responsibly |
| 14:01 |
red-001 |
their* |
| 14:04 |
IhrFussel |
Server owners should not be able to do whatever they want is my opinion...they should have to act responsibly, they should NOT touch the rights of others...and the same applies not only to server owners but to YouTubers, bloggers, forum admins etc |
| 14:06 |
IhrFussel |
I see myself as FAIR because I do not ban people only because they ANNOY me...I do not ban people for critique, I don't ban them for disagreeing with me, I don't ban them without EVIDENCE ... if you think the way I think is wrong I don't know what to tell you |
| 14:08 |
IhrFussel |
What IF someone adds a server rule "you have to send me nudes" IS THAT OK? |
| 14:08 |
red-001 |
well you see you are looking at allowed vs should |
| 14:09 |
red-001 |
such a server should be boycotted |
| 14:10 |
red-001 |
you are in no way forced to play on a server |
| 14:12 |
IhrFussel |
Regarding "if you don't like the owner/admin you can just play elsewhere": You are probably forgetting that the player might not like the server owner BUT the community...maybe the person got their friends on this server... there are only 2 options then: 1 leave EVERYONE behind 2 OBEY the server owner |
| 14:16 |
IhrFussel |
I think many players feel like that "I don't like the server rules and they violate parts of my rights but I am forced to follow them or else I can't play here anymore" |
| 14:17 |
nore |
IhrFussel: no server rules are violating anyone's rights. |
| 14:17 |
Sokomine |
hm, yes, compromises may sometimes be needed |
| 14:18 |
IhrFussel |
nore, that is YOUR opinion that NOBODY on any game server should have any rights...but luckily it's not the opinion of the majortity |
| 14:18 |
nore |
IhrFussel: as I said, tell me the rights that are violated |
| 14:19 |
nore |
(I am talking about rights guaranteed by law) |
| 14:19 |
Sokomine |
at least all you risk by playing on a server is that you might loose access to it (for a number of reasons...might just be a map reset or the server going offline). doing a local backup of it is a very good idea. if the admin is really so unberable maybe your friends will switch servers as well |
| 14:20 |
IhrFussel |
What I mean by rights is "common things that should just not be disallowed" like talking to X about Y ... the rights defined by law are different in every country, I was not talking about those |
| 14:21 |
nore |
Then we misunderstood each other, sorry |
| 14:21 |
IhrFussel |
Of course a server cannot apply all laws of all countries...that would result in a pile of crap |
| 14:21 |
nore |
I think I'll just stop arguing about that subject |
| 14:22 |
Sokomine |
nore: hm, yes. maybe the wisest option |
| 14:24 |
IhrFussel |
For example I think reading PMs WITHOUT a particular reason should not be allowed (and is illegal in Germany luckily) ... that's like walking over to a couple on the streets and listening to their whispering |
| 14:25 |
IhrFussel |
And the owner of a restaurant doesn't do that either even though the people use THEIR service |
| 14:26 |
|
paramat joined #minetest-hub |
| 14:31 |
IhrFussel |
But the most absurd rule I see on quite a few servers is this one "Do not argue with admins/moderators about a decision" and it just shows how MIGHTY the owner feels and how holy the staff must be |
| 14:32 |
paramat |
IhrFussel "I have to follow laws" no-one is suggesting server admin can break the law. also, players do not have 'rights' (of the non-legal kind) on a server, they have priviledges kindly given by their host. imagine if a guest in your house says "i have the right to stay here as long as i want, to say and do what i want". finally, everyone here agrees that it is preferable that server admin behave well |
| 14:33 |
IhrFussel |
paramat, I'm not talking about such extreme "rights" I am talking about the right to talk to Y INSIDE your house, the right to visit ANOTHER house WITHOUT being seen as "not allowed here anymore" I'm talking about those rights |
| 14:34 |
IhrFussel |
The right to use your toilet AFTER you invited the people to your house |
| 14:34 |
IhrFussel |
It's just common sense to me |
| 14:34 |
Sokomine |
IhrFussel: i think you're a bit mistaken about that rule. it's most likely born out of admins beeing desperate after players who certainly violated rules arguing for hours like the children they are about the topic and the poor admin having no time for anything else |
| 14:35 |
paramat |
if players feel it is ok to argue excessively with admin or mods about a decision then there would never-ending argument, it's done for practicality because the alternative is chaos that ruins the server for everyone and takes up all of the admin/mods time |
| 14:36 |
Sokomine |
IhrFussel: you're certainly right about private messages. those ought to stay private and are no matter for the admin (not that they'd have time to read them) |
| 14:36 |
paramat |
guests do not have rights, they have priviledges |
| 14:37 |
red-001 |
paramat, so it's as productive as this discussion? |
| 14:37 |
IhrFussel |
So am I someone special then since I am able to just simply ignore the players if they argue too much or if I think it makes no sense to continue the discussion? |
| 14:38 |
Sokomine |
IhrFussel: see that rule just as an explanation for "admin stops to talk to players if they get too silly". really nothing more on most servers :-) still, there's always room for personal misunderstanding or two people just not getting along at all |
| 14:39 |
Sokomine |
most server owners do behave reasonable. at least those of well-established servers. with new servers it might require time to get to know each other |
| 14:40 |
paramat |
a guest who claims they have 'rights' within your home would be extremely rude to say so |
| 14:40 |
Sokomine |
and now...er...i was planning to argue with some mobs. they need to learn to sleep at night - in beds they can't get into. might be...tricky |
| 14:41 |
IhrFussel |
paramat, I said "rights" because English isn't my native language and I didn't know what to call them exactly... I simply mean things that make sense while people are at your house...why would you disallow them to use your bathroom? |
| 14:43 |
IhrFussel |
Or why would you disallow a certain guy to talk to a girl inside your house? What's the point? |
| 14:44 |
paramat |
"I am able to just simply ignore the players if they argue too much or if I think it makes no sense to continue the discussion?" only a fool would not do these things, these are reasonable and practical things to do, otherwise players would walk all over you and the server ruined for everyone |
| 14:45 |
paramat |
ok, a language thing, sorry |
| 14:49 |
|
paramat left #minetest-hub |
| 14:51 |
TommyTreasure |
IhrFussel, i really don't care what you think of my rights on my machine, and my thoughts of you as a player. And you are correct, i don't know what the nickname means, and i also don't really care. your attitude, lack of respect as shown in this channel, and feeling that my server has to meet your requirements definitely puts you at the top of my watch list. |
| 14:51 |
red-001 |
well lets just agree to disagree |
| 14:51 |
red-001 |
we don't want to have to change channel again |
| 14:52 |
TommyTreasure |
and that is my last comment on this subject. |
| 14:52 |
IhrFussel |
TommyTreasure, sorry to say but in my opinion you are sick...this is also my last comment on this subject |
| 14:54 |
red-001 |
well thats partially an autological sentence |
| 14:55 |
Sokomine |
TommyTreasure: but...yours and IhrFussels values might align in most ways in the end. it's maybe a slightly diffrent environment (you: place for children to be safe; ihrfussel: wants to interact with reasonable adults) but that ought to be no problem in practical circumstances. you plain simply wouldn't do the things ihrfussel dislikes because you'd consider them immorale as well |
| 14:57 |
red-001 |
I mean I can see both points of view |
| 14:57 |
red-001 |
I just think the right of the host to do what they want with their server is more important |
| 14:57 |
red-001 |
human rights can conflict after all |
| 14:58 |
TommyTreasure |
ok, breaking my self declared last post on subject..... |
| 14:58 |
TommyTreasure |
this whole discussion started over a banned player that was never on the darklands server. so i have no idea of what his point is, and why i'm being attacked for it |
| 14:59 |
TommyTreasure |
never on, never banned |
| 15:01 |
TommyTreasure |
i have 1/2 hour before i have to leave, so if Infussel will be kind enough to post the said users nick name, i will once again grep my logs and post what i have on that player |
| 15:02 |
TommyTreasure |
maybe that was too much to ask? |
| 15:04 |
red-001 |
Shara already said why the user was banned |
| 15:04 |
TommyTreasure |
IhrFussel, my apologies for misspelling your name. |
| 15:05 |
red-001 |
they where impersonating admins and using it to gain privs |
| 15:05 |
red-001 |
and then abusing them |
| 15:05 |
TommyTreasure |
that wasn't the user mentioned yesterday |
| 15:05 |
TommyTreasure |
it was angelo1123 or something |
| 15:05 |
IhrFussel |
Okay once and for all: An admin on a certain server accused the player "angelo" of having attacked the DarkLands server and was banned on his server for it...and I wanted to know if such an attack by "angelo" EVER happened and it turns out it did NOT...so the admin of the server lied |
| 15:06 |
TommyTreasure |
there was no angelo* ever on darklands according to my logs, and i never banned that user |
| 15:07 |
IhrFussel |
Yes so the admin of that server lied to his players, that's all I needed to know |
| 15:07 |
TommyTreasure |
my command was grep "banned ang" *.log result, nothing to show |
| 15:08 |
TommyTreasure |
also ran it case insensitive |
| 15:08 |
LazyJ |
Players can use different names on different servers. |
| 15:09 |
TommyTreasure |
so your accusations to me were based off a lie another admin told you about me. now, that's a violation of my rights! agreed? |
| 15:09 |
red-001 |
Hanlon's razor, they could have a faulty source of information or have made a mistake |
| 15:09 |
LazyJ |
The IP would be a better indicator, but then those could be behind a VPN or at least a dynamic IP. |
| 15:10 |
Sokomine |
red-001: yes. that's a very likely explanation |
| 15:11 |
TommyTreasure |
i try to act as a very responsible and impartial moderator. i don't ban on the request of another moderator. i will only ban by the request of the admin, and that's only happened once in my history of darklands |
| 15:11 |
IhrFussel |
TommyTreasure, I didn't accuse anyone of anything I think...I simply wanted to know if the admin told his players the truth and was looking for confirmation or deny |
| 15:12 |
Sokomine |
afaik whoever ran that attack on the darkland server is not known. at least that's how i understood what shara wrote |
| 15:12 |
TommyTreasure |
but when a player uses vulger language within 1 minute of another player saying they just turned 7 years old, you bet your bippy that player will be banned, and banned without warning |
| 15:13 |
TommyTreasure |
then in the future, please ask in a more civilized manner. |
| 15:13 |
red-001 |
I don't know your server, but wouldn't muting be more appropiate? |
| 15:13 |
IhrFussel |
Yes so the admin said "it was angelo" but the truth is "nobody knows who it was" which results in admin lied, and that's all I wanted to check |
| 15:13 |
TommyTreasure |
i don't have the priv to remove shout on darklands |
| 15:14 |
red-001 |
huh |
| 15:14 |
TommyTreasure |
well, apparently his lie caused massive off topic posting by the both of us |
| 15:14 |
TommyTreasure |
and that's not fair to the rest of the channel members. they have their rights here too |
| 15:15 |
TommyTreasure |
my privs at darklands are that of a normal player with the addition of kick, ban, and server restart. |
| 15:15 |
IhrFussel |
I wouldn't call it "off-topic" since we talked about server owners and server rules ... but yes we drifted a bit away from the actual topic |
| 15:16 |
TommyTreasure |
then lets call it a truce and drop it |
| 15:16 |
* TommyTreasure |
sends handshake to IhrFussel |
| 15:17 |
TommyTreasure |
and we can agree to disagree on how to administer privileges on our own servers |
| 15:22 |
TommyTreasure |
i guess i'll have to wait until i return home to see if my offer has been accepted or rejected. time to leave for now. |
| 15:23 |
Sokomine |
you're really both very close together in what you'd expect of others :-) there may be small differences in detail but really nothing for a real conflict |
| 15:26 |
IhrFussel |
No it's fine I agree...we just have different POVs about certain things regarding running a server |
| 15:39 |
|
ShadowNinja joined #minetest-hub |
| 15:57 |
IhrFussel |
Shara, I didn't mean to say that angelo was a nice player or that he do bad things...just in this particular case he wasn't the cause |
| 15:57 |
IhrFussel |
that he didn't do bad things* |
| 16:03 |
IhrFussel |
Or let's say there is no evidence that suggests that he was it |
| 16:25 |
|
sniper338 joined #minetest-hub |
| 16:29 |
Jordach |
it's high noot |
| 16:31 |
|
paramat joined #minetest-hub |
| 16:32 |
paramat |
Shara are you happy with your credits in updated https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/5840 ? |
| 16:50 |
|
nerzhul joined #minetest-hub |
| 16:51 |
nerzhul |
paramat, looking to update it |
| 16:54 |
|
sniper338 joined #minetest-hub |
| 16:58 |
paramat |
ok |
| 17:16 |
red-001 |
!test |
| 17:16 |
paramat |
mine! |
| 17:18 |
|
kilbith joined #minetest-hub |
| 17:21 |
Krock |
uhmm.. paramat, there's an edit button |
| 17:22 |
Krock |
9 comments in a row. that's a record |
| 17:23 |
nerzhul |
okay then i should prepare translation |
| 17:23 |
nerzhul |
i'm going to lock weblate |
| 17:36 |
paramat |
:] yeah, intentional. when working rapidly on something another dev may be quickly reading each comment as it is made, and can then miss edits to earlier comments. so i do this in hot situations |
| 17:41 |
|
kaeza joined #minetest-hub |
| 17:49 |
|
Stone-Talus joined #minetest-hub |
| 17:56 |
Jordach |
Calinou, top fucking kek |
| 17:56 |
Jordach |
https://www.reddit.com/r/pcmasterrace/comments/6f036e/denuvo_is_using_software_from_other_company/ |
| 17:56 |
Jordach |
tl;dr denuvo pirated software |
| 17:56 |
|
NatedaGr8 joined #minetest-hub |
| 17:56 |
Calinou |
haha |
| 17:56 |
Calinou |
:') |
| 17:56 |
Jordach |
from another company, while v4 that doesn't use the software is broken in less than a week |
| 17:56 |
Calinou |
well, Doom was crack-free for ~3 months, but it was one of the first Denuvo games IIRC |
| 17:56 |
Calinou |
and they removed it eventually |
| 17:57 |
Calinou |
(which made it possible to run it in WINE) |
| 17:57 |
Jordach |
Calinou, and DOOM ran beautifully with or without it |
| 18:00 |
Jordach |
the 770 i had ran it like a turd in water |
| 18:00 |
Jordach |
the RX480 made it buttery |
| 18:02 |
NathanS21 |
Can somebody please give NatedaGr8 voice? |
| 18:02 |
NathanS21 |
It's my alt account for on my phone. |
| 18:06 |
|
kilbith left #minetest-hub |
| 18:12 |
Sokomine |
how was creating a debug build again? someone had that in his signature but i don't remember |
| 18:14 |
NatedaGr8 |
thanks VanessaE |
| 18:14 |
VanessaE |
sure. |
| 18:22 |
Calinou |
Jordach: there's Vulkan in Doom now, it ran very smoothly here last time I tried it |
| 18:23 |
Calinou |
since it exploits the GPU better than OpenGL, you can easily hear the GPU though :P |
| 18:23 |
Calinou |
(and Doom doesn't have a FPS limit setting in console, from a quick look) |
| 18:40 |
* red-001 |
wonders if any of the typical minetest youtubers have made release videos |
| 18:41 |
* NathanS21 |
wonders why red-001 doesn't know about his channel, and the release videos |
| 18:42 |
* Krock |
knows NathanS21's channel but didn't subscribe it yet |
| 18:42 |
Calinou |
"Epic Rap Battles of History: Minetest 0.4.16" |
| 18:42 |
Fixer |
Calinou: GZdoom dev may be interested in minetest |
| 18:43 |
Calinou |
ah, I saw the Inocudom thread |
| 18:43 |
Fixer |
said Inocodum on #minetest yesterday |
| 18:43 |
Calinou |
why would he be interested in it? |
| 18:43 |
Fixer |
Calinou: why not? |
| 18:43 |
garywhite |
Hmm...I have to re-download MT, but I'm debating if I should just wait for tomorrow's 0.4.16 |
| 18:43 |
red-001 |
who knows |
| 18:43 |
Calinou |
Fixer: I don't see why, basically |
| 18:43 |
Calinou |
I usually download daily builds, garywhite |
| 18:43 |
Calinou |
or compile myself |
| 18:43 |
Krock |
garywhite, wait two days and you'll have the after-release patches too |
| 18:44 |
Fixer |
Calinou: why not? :} |
| 18:45 |
Fixer |
Calinou: you don't want more help on engine? |
| 18:46 |
red-001 |
just never update minetest |
| 18:46 |
red-001 |
that way once minetest stops being developed you will be able to get the finnal version |
| 18:46 |
red-001 |
and it will never go out of date |
| 18:46 |
Calinou |
Fixer: meh, we need to fix specific things |
| 18:46 |
Calinou |
like the GUI system |
| 19:00 |
|
muhdnurhidayat joined #minetest-hub |
| 19:08 |
* NathanS21 |
goes to record a minetest video |
| 19:08 |
|
VaultyTowers joined #minetest-hub |
| 19:09 |
* red-001 |
pings some package maintainers |
| 19:10 |
paramat |
0.4.16! |
| 19:11 |
|
muhdnurhidayat left #minetest-hub |
| 19:16 |
paramat |
an amazing release too |
| 19:26 |
garywhite |
0.4.16 \o/ |
| 19:26 |
NathanS21 |
time to work on finishing my release video |
| 19:26 |
garywhite |
Rats, red beat me to it |
| 19:26 |
red-001 |
well here paramat did |
| 19:28 |
red-001 |
oh great I think weather personaly hates me |
| 19:28 |
red-001 |
just when I plan to go outside it starts lashing outside |
| 19:37 |
Fixer |
0.4.16 arrived https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DBZJATmXkAA5IA4.jpg:large |
| 19:38 |
red-001 |
Fixer, why? |
| 19:39 |
Krock |
photoshop or original-ugly? |
| 19:39 |
red-001 |
I fear original |
| 19:39 |
DS-minetest |
+ |
| 19:39 |
Fixer |
https://www.wgsn.com/blogs/central-saint-martins-ba-2017-the-ones-to-watch/ |
| 19:39 |
DS-minetest |
found something about 16: http://www.nyan.cat/newyear |
| 19:40 |
red-001 |
well a reverse image search seems to indicate original |
| 19:42 |
Fixer |
Krock: original |
| 19:42 |
Krock |
eeks |
| 19:42 |
DS-minetest |
red-001: don't look at it too much, it will effect you |
| 19:43 |
DS-minetest |
what do you think, why the trousers are red? |
| 19:48 |
|
bigfoot547 joined #minetest-hub |
| 19:55 |
|
behalebabo joined #minetest-hub |
| 20:04 |
NathanS21 |
a changelog!!! I can use my original intro now. :) |
| 20:10 |
Dumbeldor |
:D |
| 20:13 |
Fixer |
rememba this bug? https://i.imgur.com/RCmzO0a.png |
| 20:13 |
* Fixer |
pokes VanessaE |
| 20:13 |
VanessaE |
ow. |
| 20:14 |
Fixer |
VanessaE: thats pic from your dreamb survival server, you can replace those shrubs near spawn |
| 20:15 |
VanessaE |
that was probably a leftover from the old junglegrass mod in plantlife |
| 20:24 |
* Krock |
tries hard to see the bug |
| 20:24 |
* Krock |
can only see dryed out plants |
| 20:26 |
lisac |
hey, new version! |
| 20:26 |
lisac |
nice. |
| 20:26 |
lisac |
:P |
| 20:26 |
lisac |
I made something. https://youtu.be/fWjzMmwCfA4 |
| 20:27 |
lisac |
it controls volume |
| 20:27 |
lisac |
red-001, ^ |
| 20:28 |
red-001 |
you curely, curely, *******! |
| 20:29 |
red-001 |
cruel* |
| 20:29 |
lisac |
:D took me whole day |
| 20:29 |
lisac |
At least now I know a bit more about SDL |
| 20:29 |
red-001 |
lisac, you on reddit? |
| 20:29 |
Krock |
thumbs up for this weekend project |
| 20:29 |
lisac |
yes. :P |
| 20:29 |
red-001 |
post it to r/ProgrammerHumor/ |
| 20:29 |
lisac |
I know. |
| 20:29 |
lisac |
I got the idea there |
| 20:30 |
lisac |
it's the stupid volume week |
| 20:30 |
lisac |
thanks Krock |
| 20:30 |
Calinou |
/r/ProgrammerHumor/ is great :D |
| 20:30 |
Krock |
red-001, or programminghorror depending on code quality |
| 20:30 |
red-001 |
r/softwaregore |
| 20:31 |
red-001 |
you can hate me latter |
| 20:31 |
lisac |
Krock, Most likely horror |
| 20:31 |
lisac |
wait, I'll post it to github |
| 20:31 |
* red-001 |
goes off to improve the change log |
| 20:32 |
Krock |
wtf what's up with all these volume sliders? |
| 20:32 |
red-001 |
Krock, that subreddit, like all other subreddits, tends to murder dead horses |
| 20:33 |
Krock |
lol |
| 20:34 |
Krock |
"Volume selector... Literally." https://jsfiddle.net/vjhwzLf2/1/ I CAN'T ANYMORE HAHAH |
| 20:35 |
Krock |
that came somewhat unexpected |
| 20:35 |
red-001 |
oh btw what do you think of my shitty infographic https://raw.githubusercontent.com/red-001/diagrams/master/formspec%20spoofing.jpg |
| 20:36 |
Krock |
"formsoec" |
| 20:37 |
red-001 |
Krock, make a pull request |
| 20:37 |
Krock |
k |
| 20:37 |
red-001 |
https://github.com/red-001/diagrams/issues/new |
| 20:38 |
lisac |
https://www.reddit.com/r/ProgrammerHumor/comments/6f3cuj/i_felt_inspired_by_the_recent_volume_controls/ |
| 20:38 |
* red-001 |
goes back to abusing github to store random files |
| 20:38 |
lisac |
github link in the comments. :P |
| 20:38 |
Fixer |
recent volume controls? |
| 20:39 |
Fixer |
someone said gnome? |
| 20:39 |
* Fixer |
looks |
| 20:41 |
red-001 |
oh btw I used https://www.draw.io/ to make the flowcart |
| 20:41 |
red-001 |
the .xml is the format it uses |
| 20:42 |
Calinou |
lol, there's a volume slider meme |
| 20:42 |
Calinou |
I remember the phone number selector ones |
| 20:42 |
red-001 |
Calinou, as do I |
| 20:45 |
red-001 |
alright fix the issue you pointed out Krock |
| 20:45 |
red-001 |
fixed* |
| 20:45 |
Krock |
red-001, <.< |
| 20:45 |
Krock |
https://github.com/red-001/diagrams/pull/1 |
| 20:46 |
red-001 |
oh sorry |
| 20:46 |
Krock |
JPEG seems to have troubles with red-black |
| 20:47 |
red-001 |
should I try exporting a png then? |
| 20:47 |
red-001 |
well I would prefer to use an SVG but that doesn't seem to work well with github |
| 20:48 |
Krock |
lol, I don't care. Trashing this PR now |
| 20:48 |
Krock |
was supposed to be a joke anyways |
| 20:50 |
lisac |
hey what about this one? https://i.redd.it/8bnjhfcslh1z.gif |
| 21:04 |
red-001 |
updating http://dev.minetest.net/Changelog to include authors of PR's |
| 21:06 |
nerzhul |
thanks red-001 |
| 21:17 |
Shara |
Hi all |
| 21:17 |
red-001 |
wow this is more exhasting then I though it would be |
| 21:17 |
Shara |
red-001: if you are updating changelog info there, any chance of adding the new options I did to it? |
| 21:17 |
Shara |
Not sure why they weren't included yet |
| 21:18 |
Fixer |
Valve announced today that anyone will be able to publish games on Steam through its previously announced Steam Direct program for "a $100 recoupable publishing fee per game." |
| 21:18 |
Shara |
I think the consol height and node highlighting options are worth a mention |
| 21:19 |
red-001 |
Shara, I'm just adding the correct authors for existing parts of the changelog |
| 21:19 |
red-001 |
right now that is |
| 21:19 |
Shara |
who is in charge of the change log itself then? Guessing my work was skipped for the same reason crediting me was originally skipped |
| 21:19 |
|
DI3HARD139 joined #minetest-hub |
| 21:19 |
nerzhul |
red-001, i didn't have courage for this, haha |
| 21:20 |
nerzhul |
i think monthly or bi monthly changelog update can be nice |
| 21:20 |
Shara |
But I think those options deserve a mention at least as much as some of the things that are included already |
| 21:20 |
|
srifqi joined #minetest-hub |
| 21:21 |
Shara |
Quite a few people wanted thos eoptions, after all |
| 21:21 |
sfan5 |
Core 0: +97.0°C (high = +86.0°C, crit = +100.0°C) |
| 21:21 |
Shara |
wanted those* |
| 21:21 |
sfan5 |
this doesn't look healthy |
| 21:21 |
sfan5 |
i think my laptops fan died |
| 21:21 |
Shara |
sfan5: ouch |
| 21:22 |
sfan5 |
it's pretty much burning when you touch it |
| 21:22 |
red-001 |
nerzhul, yes that would help |
| 21:22 |
Fixer |
sfan5: or it is apple... :trollface: |
| 21:23 |
sfan5 |
nah |
| 21:23 |
sfan5 |
the fan works again now |
| 21:23 |
sfan5 |
but its making weird sounds |
| 21:24 |
sfan5 |
just gotta compile minetest... |
| 21:24 |
Krock |
lisac, oh look. It's another volume slider http://i.imgur.com/BSLp1f2.png |
| 21:26 |
Shara |
nerzhul: Are you the one doing changelog? |
| 21:26 |
nerzhul |
i did core changelog 1 month ago yes |
| 21:27 |
Shara |
Why are the options I added missing? |
| 21:27 |
red-001 |
should trival changes, e.g. changing a setting be attributed? |
| 21:27 |
Shara |
red-001: some of the things included seem much more trivial than the options I added |
| 21:27 |
nerzhul |
red-001, i don't know, main features are interesting |
| 21:28 |
nerzhul |
Shara, don't be evil, some things can have been forgotten, i'm human :p |
| 21:28 |
Shara |
I assume it's the same reason my PRs weren't counted when working out contributors |
| 21:28 |
Shara |
nerzhul: It's no complaint, but could you please add them? |
| 21:28 |
red-001 |
Shara, if you can write a description of them in wiki markdown I will add them |
| 21:28 |
Shara |
I don't even have wiki account there, so I think no easy way to check the markdown |
| 21:28 |
red-001 |
I don't have time to dig through commits right now |
| 21:29 |
Shara |
I can tell you what they do though |
| 21:29 |
red-001 |
Shara, just write a description |
| 21:29 |
red-001 |
and put it on pastebin or something |
| 21:30 |
Shara |
1 - console height can now be set by the player. 2 - Additional option added to node highlighting drop-drop. |
| 21:30 |
Shara |
Not sure if you need more detail |
| 21:31 |
Shara |
drop-down* |
| 21:32 |
red-001 |
alright I will add that |
| 21:32 |
Shara |
Thank you. |
| 21:32 |
red-001 |
chat console right? |
| 21:32 |
Shara |
1 especially had some players compiling their own clients instead of using the official ones, so it would be nice if people see that was added |
| 21:33 |
Shara |
The one from f10, yes. |
| 21:33 |
red-001 |
alright added |
| 21:33 |
red-001 |
I credited you as "Shara" |
| 21:34 |
Shara |
Could you either list it as Shara/Ezhh or Shara RedCat? |
| 21:34 |
Shara |
I don't care which. Just there is another person also using "Shara" as their MT identity |
| 21:34 |
red-001 |
Shara "Ezhh" Redcat? |
| 21:35 |
Shara |
That would be weird, since Ezhh is sort of my name :P |
| 21:35 |
red-001 |
oh lol |
| 21:35 |
Shara |
:D |
| 21:36 |
red-001 |
went for "Shara Redcat" since the other one could look like two people where working on it |
| 21:37 |
Shara |
drop-down, not drop-drop :D |
| 21:37 |
Shara |
Sorry for my typos |
| 21:37 |
Shara |
It's been a really long day |
| 21:39 |
Shara |
thanks red :) |
| 21:43 |
red-001 |
alright the changelog is mostly fixed |
| 21:43 |
red-001 |
still not sure about the authorship of eight remain enteries |
| 21:43 |
red-001 |
but that can be fixed some other time |
| 21:44 |
Shara |
(RedCat, not Redcat, by the way :P) |
| 21:44 |
Shara |
But not a big deal |
| 21:44 |
red-001 |
http://screamintothevoid.com/ |
| 21:45 |
lisac |
has anyone seen this? https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=17787 |
| 21:45 |
Shara |
Just is nice to be listed as what I actually use |
| 21:47 |
red-001 |
well there goes trying to use good summeries for the edit history |
| 21:47 |
Shara |
lisac: if this person can make improvements, they can talk to the devs or submit a PR like everyone else. |
| 21:47 |
red-001 |
(+4)‎ . . (This is a summery.) (undo) |
| 21:47 |
Shara |
Everyone is always going to welcome someone who can make the game better |
| 21:50 |
lisac |
Shara, I know |
| 21:50 |
lisac |
Just seems strange |
| 21:50 |
red-001 |
how so? |
| 21:50 |
Shara |
Lots of people claim they can make things better, but never actually do anything |
| 21:51 |
red-001 |
^ |
| 21:51 |
lisac |
probably. |
| 21:51 |
red-001 |
I mean no hard feeling, optimization is hard |
| 21:51 |
red-001 |
+s |
| 21:52 |
Shara |
So if they try to improve things, great, and I think the devs will be happy to help them any way that's needed. But there's nothing to be done until they do something |
| 21:52 |
|
bigfoot547 left #minetest-hub |
| 21:53 |
red-001 |
huh I should compile 0.4.16 |
| 21:53 |
|
bigfoot547 joined #minetest-hub |
| 21:53 |
Shara |
Is it actually ready now? |
| 21:54 |
paramat |
yeah |
| 21:54 |
red-001 |
eh yes? |
| 21:55 |
Shara |
Hmm, I should as well then, but probably not awake enough :) |
| 21:56 |
lisac |
I'm compiling it right now |
| 21:56 |
red-001 |
well to para-phrase someone "this is the part where I regreat using daily builds" |
| 21:57 |
lisac |
Shara, what OS are you on that compilation requires full concentration? :) |
| 21:57 |
red-001 |
windows |
| 21:57 |
Shara |
Compiling for me means other computer, and I'm not even sure where I left that :) |
| 21:57 |
red-001 |
have you tried compiling minetest on windows? |
| 21:57 |
lisac |
lol okay :) |
| 21:57 |
lisac |
red-001, Yes. |
| 21:57 |
Fixer |
I must this Jungle server is really impressive and nice |
| 21:57 |
lisac |
I did it once |
| 21:57 |
Shara |
Compiling on windows is pain. I gave up. |
| 21:57 |
Fixer |
I must say* |
| 21:57 |
Shara |
Other computer is linux. |
| 21:58 |
red-001 |
I just installed linux after a while |
| 21:58 |
Shara |
But that's a laptop, and could be in any room of the house so... |
| 21:58 |
Calinou |
<red-001> have you tried compiling minetest on windows? |
| 21:58 |
Calinou |
I have, it worked once, that was last year, with VS 2015 |
| 21:59 |
Calinou |
it's a pain |
| 21:59 |
Calinou |
some libraries were linked statically, others dynamically |
| 21:59 |
Fixer |
Shara: laptop still needs to be linked to 220V a lot of the time |
| 21:59 |
Shara |
red-001: Yes.. have done same. But I need to keep the main machine on windows for work/study |
| 21:59 |
lisac |
Calinou, Windows itself is a pain. |
| 21:59 |
Calinou |
maybe MinGW is easier to get working, I don't know |
| 21:59 |
Calinou |
it would be *much* easier if we had a .dll/.lib pack |
| 21:59 |
Fixer |
Shara: not sure about other countries, but here power outlets are fucking placed in retarted places :( |
| 21:59 |
Calinou |
that we could ship as an additional download |
| 21:59 |
Calinou |
so that users can compile easily for Windows |
| 21:59 |
red-001 |
http://i.imgur.com/RqDYzmk.png |
| 21:59 |
Shara |
Fixer: Hmm, never had much issue with that |
| 21:59 |
Calinou |
(we don't have to advertise it on download page, just on GItHub) |
| 22:00 |
lisac |
Fixer, position of power outlets here depends upon the age of the building. |
| 22:00 |
lisac |
>20y ago you've got communist, 1m ones |
| 22:00 |
Fixer |
lisac: much older |
| 22:00 |
lisac |
<20y, the new, .5m ones |
| 22:00 |
Shara |
Calinou: would be nice really. Despite common belief, some windows users actually can write some code and even make PRs! So easy compiling would be nice. |
| 22:00 |
Calinou |
the alternative is building all libraries in-tree by default |
| 22:01 |
Calinou |
but I'm sure many developers would hate that :) |
| 22:01 |
Calinou |
but that's what Godot does |
| 22:01 |
Calinou |
so we have control on all libraries |
| 22:01 |
red-001 |
I mean if you can figure out the arcan magic needed to build on windows |
| 22:01 |
red-001 |
then writing code is easy |
| 22:01 |
Fixer |
Shara: for example, I want a outlet near table in kitchen, but there is none, because people forget to place it there :} |
| 22:01 |
Shara |
I've built on windows several times... but it's always such a pain. |
| 22:01 |
Calinou |
red-001: even for seasoned programmers, it is not easy |
| 22:01 |
Calinou |
you need to go to random library websites, find their source code, get it to compile (some use CMake, but not all) |
| 22:01 |
Fixer |
Calinou: cross-compile from lin to win via mingw with buildbot script is pretty easy |
| 22:01 |
red-001 |
arcane magic* |
| 22:01 |
Calinou |
make sure it works with your version of Visual Studio or MinGW (not a given) |
| 22:01 |
Shara |
If I want to make or test some small PR... it's just not worth the time |
| 22:01 |
red-001 |
Calinou, I didn't say it was |
| 22:01 |
Calinou |
Fixer: MinGW is likely easy |
| 22:01 |
Jordach |
if you build it for windows it's easier to port it * rollsafe* |
| 22:01 |
Calinou |
MSVC is not... |
| 22:02 |
Calinou |
but MSVC is deemed to be faster (although MinGW should be fast enough in most cases) |
| 22:02 |
red-001 |
MinGW is suppose to be easier? |
| 22:02 |
Calinou |
it likely is for the kind of software that is Minetest |
| 22:02 |
Fixer |
Calinou: MSVC is automatable, i was using modified celerons script in 2012 to autobuild it |
| 22:02 |
Calinou |
Minetest, is, after all, mainly developed on/for Linux |
| 22:02 |
Calinou |
Fixer: it's automatable to an extent... for example, almost nobody has a Windows server for that kind of thing |
| 22:02 |
lisac |
Can't you install cygwin on Windows, then cross compile? |
| 22:02 |
red-001 |
but mostly used on android |
| 22:02 |
Calinou |
if you want 24/7 automatic builds, you can't use MSVC for that really |
| 22:02 |
Calinou |
(except with AppVeyor) |
| 22:02 |
Shara |
lisac: cywin makes my headache |
| 22:03 |
red-001 |
cywin is even more of a pain |
| 22:03 |
Calinou |
lisac: 1) that means using MinGW, 2) you need Cygwin libraries to run the resulting program, which sucks |
| 22:03 |
Shara |
cygwin* |
| 22:03 |
Calinou |
just use native MinGW |
| 22:03 |
Calinou |
http://mingw-w64.org/doku.php :P |
| 22:03 |
red-001 |
MSVC is easier to deal with the the double arcane mess that is cygwin |
| 22:03 |
Calinou |
MSVC isn't that easy to deal with, I've found |
| 22:03 |
Calinou |
it's also comparatively huge in file size |
| 22:03 |
red-001 |
I know |
| 22:03 |
Shara |
Anything at all is easier to deal with than cygwin... |
| 22:03 |
Calinou |
(MSVC 2017, here, was about 14 GB to install. And they've made a lot of efforts on the install size and startup time) |
| 22:03 |
red-001 |
still less horrible then cygwin |
| 22:04 |
lisac |
hey there isn't a graphical way to enable/disable CSM mods? :O |
| 22:04 |
red-001 |
lisac, nope |
| 22:04 |
Calinou |
Visual Studio 2017 starts quite quickly now, which is good |
| 22:04 |
Fixer |
i used this in 2012 for msvc: https://pastebin.com/raw/6PNGfYui (old msvc on XP, hardcoded paths...) |
| 22:04 |
Calinou |
but I don't use the IDE itself anyway |
| 22:04 |
Fixer |
Calinou: there is workaround |
| 22:04 |
lisac |
red-001, Doesn't seem very release-ready |
| 22:04 |
Fixer |
Calinou: that needs 1gb or so |
| 22:04 |
lisac |
most users won't be able to enable them |
| 22:04 |
Shara |
I just need to work out how to compile windows client from linux to be happy really |
| 22:04 |
Shara |
But didn't try that yet |
| 22:04 |
red-001 |
I used to have a semi-compenent build system set up in on windows for minetest |
| 22:05 |
red-001 |
but then I was forced to reinstall windows |
| 22:05 |
Calinou |
Fixer: I know you can install just the build tools, yeah |
| 22:05 |
Calinou |
probably around 5 GB |
| 22:05 |
Calinou |
so it's much more affordable for small SSD users |
| 22:05 |
red-001 |
so I decided to just install arch instead of fix it to work again |
| 22:05 |
Calinou |
Shara: cross-compiling Linux-to-Windows should be quite easy |
| 22:05 |
* VaultyTowers |
is going to attempt playing Beyond good and evil on his PCSX2 emulator |
| 22:05 |
Calinou |
probably easier than using MinGW on Windows, in fact |
| 22:05 |
red-001 |
Calinou, huh? |
| 22:05 |
Calinou |
I've done it with Godot to give someone a testing build, it worked well |
| 22:05 |
Shara |
Calinou: for someone who has a clue, I'm sure it is :) |
| 22:05 |
Calinou |
the distro had pre-built packages for libraries |
| 22:05 |
Shara |
But I've never tried before and have no clue :) |
| 22:05 |
red-001 |
maybe I should give cross compiling a shot then |
| 22:05 |
Calinou |
VaultyTowers: I've never used emulators, all the games I like are on PC |
| 22:06 |
Calinou |
#QuakeFan |
| 22:06 |
VaultyTowers |
#ZeldaAin'tPCAvailable |
| 22:06 |
red-001 |
well not now |
| 22:06 |
red-001 |
I'm half dead after fixing that changelog |
| 22:07 |
Shara |
red-001: any documentation is guaranteed to give headaches. I work with this stuff, so I relate |
| 22:07 |
Shara |
It's kind of why I have not attempted to get a wiki account and so on |
| 22:08 |
Fixer |
Calinou: still, 14gb is fucking ridiculous |
| 22:08 |
red-001 |
don't want to do the same thing you do at work in your free time right? |
| 22:08 |
Shara |
Kind of |
| 22:09 |
Shara |
I worked as a technical writer for quite some time, and also managed some company wikis. |
| 22:09 |
Calinou |
Fixer: well, we live in the era of 250+ GB SSDs now |
| 22:09 |
Calinou |
it's fine to me |
| 22:09 |
Calinou |
if you are a commercial developer, you usually have a fancy, modern machine |
| 22:09 |
Calinou |
(lots of open source projects use MSVC, but still) |
| 22:09 |
Fixer |
Calinou: yes, but it is not really necessary to DL and install so much |
| 22:09 |
Calinou |
(but lots of open source devs also do commercial work :P) |
| 22:09 |
Shara |
I probably should take a look at MT documentation at some point though in general |
| 22:09 |
Fixer |
Calinou: they need modularity |
| 22:09 |
Calinou |
Shara: I had over 4,000 edits on Minecraft wiki |
| 22:09 |
Calinou |
done between 2011 and 2014 |
| 22:10 |
Shara |
See if there is anything I can fixing without wanting to hurt myself |
| 22:10 |
Calinou |
heck, I saw a blog post of someone talking about ambient occlusion that used a GIF I uploaded to the wiki |
| 22:10 |
Shara |
fix* |
| 22:10 |
Calinou |
I was almost famous, except they did not give attribution :D |
| 22:10 |
Calinou |
but now I'm no longer involved in the Minecraft community |
| 22:10 |
Calinou |
(and play it very occasionally only) |
| 22:11 |
Shara |
Calinou: I have nothing but respect for that |
| 22:11 |
Fixer |
Calinou: now do minetest edits |
| 22:11 |
Shara |
I know the work/effort that kind of maintenance can take |
| 22:12 |
Shara |
and yes, it's generally thankless work too |
| 22:12 |
Fixer |
LazyJ: gonna make a mooove? >0.4.16 ? |
| 22:12 |
Fixer |
Shara: gonna make a mooove? >0.4.16 ? |
| 22:12 |
Shara |
Fixer: I plan to get a new VPS set up after my exams for done |
| 22:13 |
Shara |
then will look at moving RC to .16 |
| 22:13 |
Calinou |
Shara: thanks :) |
| 22:13 |
Calinou |
yeah, I documented a ton of things, took 50+ screenshots to update old ones |
| 22:13 |
Calinou |
I got to know the admins quite well over time :P |
| 22:14 |
LazyJ |
Fixer - Not for awhile. I want to see what problems other servers have with it first. |
| 22:14 |
Shara |
Calinou: people generally don't even realise the preparation that goes into handling screenshots correctly. |
| 22:14 |
Calinou |
yeah |
| 22:14 |
Calinou |
setting the right settings, possible edits (I made 2 or 3 GIFs too) |
| 22:14 |
Shara |
I previosuly had to write guidesw on how to do this... |
| 22:14 |
Shara |
guides* |
| 22:14 |
Calinou |
also worked a bit on the French wiki, but most of my work was in English |
| 22:14 |
Calinou |
(which did help me improve my English quite a bit) |
| 22:15 |
Shara |
Silly (and to me obvious) things like making sure other things don't show in the background, seem hard for some people. |
| 22:20 |
Calinou |
heh yeah, I had to redo a few screenshots because of mobs or other things in the background, photobombing the screenshot |
| 22:26 |
Fixer |
nice https://i.imgur.com/5X1mLI1.png |
| 22:26 |
|
Stone-Talus joined #minetest-hub |
| 22:28 |
Jordach |
Calinou, what was that arch based OS again |
| 22:30 |
lisac |
Going to sleep, good night |
| 22:30 |
Jordach |
https://manjaro.org/ found it |
| 22:35 |
Calinou |
Jordach: yep |
| 22:35 |
Calinou |
going to sleep too, night |
| 22:38 |
|
NathanS21_ joined #minetest-hub |
| 22:42 |
|
NathanS21 joined #minetest-hub |
| 22:45 |
|
bigfoot547 joined #minetest-hub |
| 22:50 |
Jordach |
i feel like designing my own XFCE4.x theme |
| 22:50 |
Jordach |
because all of these are s h i t |
| 22:52 |
|
NathanS21 joined #minetest-hub |
| 22:53 |
|
behaleba- joined #minetest-hub |
| 23:03 |
Fixer |
VanessaE: z-fight https://i.imgur.com/WZ7TK26.png |
| 23:05 |
Fixer |
window in upper part |
| 23:07 |
Jordach |
what z-fighting |
| 23:07 |
Jordach |
i don't see it |
| 23:08 |
* Jordach |
demo's Manjaro in VBox |
| 23:09 |
Jordach |
fuck |
| 23:09 |
sfan5 |
ｕｓｅ ï½ï½’ｃｈ |
| 23:09 |
Jordach |
you know i'm tearing all the shit out of this cunt |
| 23:09 |
Jordach |
then making it how i want on the real hw |
| 23:16 |
Fixer |
ＣＹＢＥＲＣＡＲＤＩＯＰＵＮＣＴＵＲＥ |
| 23:16 |
red-001 |
talking while away |
| 23:17 |
Jordach |
>not away |
| 23:17 |
Jordach |
:thonking: |
| 23:18 |
Fixer |
"Incorporeal Visions Deluxe - è©© Desktop [2:22]" goes very well for exploring good server |
| 23:19 |
Fixer |
minetest is doing |
| 23:19 |
Fixer |
hi guys |
| 23:19 |
red-001 |
inverse |
| 23:20 |
red-001 |
oh chatter29 has a twitter |
| 23:21 |
Fixer |
minetest has too |
| 23:38 |
Jordach |
>tfw the repo at catn.com is 404 |
| 23:39 |
Jordach |
may have broke things |
| 23:40 |
Jordach |
me_irl |
| 23:40 |
Jordach |
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C8A6LdPWsAEpcbv.jpg:large |
| 23:41 |
|
bigfoot547 joined #minetest-hub |
