IRC log for #minetest-hub, 2017-06-04

Time	Nick	Message
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00:33	Vtower	when you meet someone and they say they dont watch the simpsons, south park, family, robot chicken, rwen and stimpy, or even futurama
00:33	Vtower	family guy*
00:36	bigfoot547	Sooo....
00:37	Vtower	its so sad
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06:37	TommyTreasure	possible off topic. can anyone assist me with the syntax for the irc command to require voice on an irc channel. my attacker can no longer get into the game, and has found our game's irc channel to be his attack method
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09:46	Shara	Morning all
09:47	red-001	morning
09:47	Shara	Hi red-001 :)
09:49	DS-minetest	morning
09:55	Krock	hi Shara
09:56	Shara	Hi Krock, hi DS-minetest
09:56	Shara	Another round of attacks on DL to clean up on :(
10:08		Fixer joined #minetest-hub
10:13	CWz	Shara, wasn't DL locked off to new players?
10:13	Shara	They got on the IRC channel
10:13	Shara	That's now locked down too
10:14	CWz	Ya need the CyborPolice
10:14	Shara	It's always when I'm away
10:20	CWz	I am confused to why they are still attacking
10:20	Fuchs	TommyTreasure: hi
10:20	Fuchs	TommyTreasure: is that channel on freenode?
10:21	TommyTreasure	Fuchs, pm please?
10:21	Fuchs	sure
10:22	Shara	Fuchs: It's on freenode.
10:22	lisac	Shara, maybe you should require email in order to get interact. That way, they'd have to go to a lot more trouble to cause any problems.
10:22	Shara	Could I pleased be involved in any talks regarding this channel though, since it is me running it
10:23	Shara	lisac: That's something I thought about in the past, and it would be horrible. Many of the players don't have email addresses (some children are not allowed)
10:23	Shara	please*
10:23	CWz	Hmm about read rules for interact
10:23	Shara	CWz: Interact isn't the problem though.
10:24	Shara	It's the spam
10:24	Shara	This is really nasty racist stuff, among other things, getting spammed into chat
10:24	Shara	It's not even things a filter could easily catch.
10:24	Fuchs	Shara: augh
10:24	Fuchs	Shara / TommyTreasure: /join ##foobar-mt-discuss-blabla
10:26	CWz	Fuchs, might want to put password so one would be snooping as usual
10:26	Fuchs	CWz: I'm pretty sure I can remove people if needed
10:26	Fuchs	it's only very temporary anyway
10:29	TommyTreasure	Shara, i only asked for pm to keep it out of the room. i wasn't aware of topic prior to chat. my apologies
10:30	shivajiva	why is clearing single armor items using inventory manipulation so difficult?
10:31	Shara	No problem TommyTreasure. It's just that I like to be in the loop about channels I'm meant to be running :)
10:33	shivajiva	I take the items, refresh the formspec and the item is sat there in the slot but the player isn't wearing it, moving it to another slot makes it wearable, did I miss something?
10:34	TommyTreasure	Shara, i've just decided to keep as low profile appearance as possible
10:35	Shara	It won't make any difference
10:35	TommyTreasure	yes it will! it'll keep me from getting myself in trouble! lol
10:37	TommyTreasure	less activity = less targeting = life easier for everyone else
10:40	CWz	Shara does your server have basic_mechines?
10:40	Shara	CWz: Nope
10:40	CWz	good
10:41	red-001	why?
10:41	Shara	TommyTreasure: These kinds of people will do what they do, regardless of whether you are there. It's only an easier life for you :)
10:43	red-001	well its a very specific "backdoor"
10:44	red-001	looks like he hardcoded his nick in some sort of test command
10:44	red-001	CWz, someone already posted this on the forum
10:44	red-001	anyway the ofending line https://github.com/ac-minetest/basic_machines/blob/9a66471390cdc4f2f9ee8bafdaf7c3dfe56916cd/mover.lua#L1302
10:47	Krock	Offtopic: I'm glad this doesn't apply to Minetest http://imgur.com/r/ProgrammerHumor/ZyNvqMg
10:48	shivajiva	clearly missing the server admin tier at the bottom lol
10:49	red-001	https://www.reddit.com/r/ProgrammerHumor/comments/6f4of7/no_need_to_overcomplicate_things_with_the_volume/
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10:51	Krock	shivajiva, lol yeah
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11:03	Krock	red-001, our cheat prevention: http://imgur.com/r/ProgrammerHumor/bYiIN56
11:05	red-001	lol
11:05	Fixer	VanessaE: do you have that multiplying entities bug on your servers?
11:07	Fixer	wtf about those volume sliders?
11:08	red-001	Fixer, reddit being reddit
11:09	* Fixer	googles
11:11	Fixer	red-001: you should post on rnd machines topic about this
11:12	Jordach	https://i.redd.it/6iwmt9ojzf1z.jpg
11:16	red-001	Fixer, someone already did
11:18	Fixer	red-001: i'm not sure rnd did it for malicious intentions, he developed that mod running on actual servers, so he probably did it for convinience, will ask maikerumine about that
11:19	Fixer	red-001: but ofc it needs to be disabled
11:19	Fixer	removed*
11:30	red-001	hey if he wanted to me evil he would have used that anti-cheat mod for it
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11:59	Fixer	red-001: contacted him, he will rework it
12:02		Shara joined #minetest-hub
12:32	Wayward_One	hi all :)
13:12	Jordach	Lua: What if game developers got tired of C++?
13:13	Jordach	fuck
13:14	Krock	huh
13:14	Jordach	TypeScript: JavaScript with a condom
13:15	Jordach	Hiring PHP developers does not contribute to the quota of employees with disabilities.
13:17	Jordach	wtf
13:17	Jordach	PowerPoint is TURING COMPLETE
13:17	Jordach	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNjxe8ShM-8
13:21	Jordach	Calinou, rubenwardy, benrob0329-latop, Shara
13:21	Jordach	go see that video
13:26	Krock	1600 animations :o
13:29	Shara	Jordach: somehow, I'm not sure how, but somehow, this manages to feel relevant to the exam I'm trying to prepare for :D
13:44	Fixer	https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DBd9C-dXkAA2Eg_.jpg:large
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13:46	Krock	Fixer, and once again the JPEG compression made it look much worse
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14:20	VanessaE	Fixer: multiplying entities, yes. mostly on my creative server, though I haven't checked recently if they're still being created.
14:22	VanessaE	(on Dreambuilder/30000 that is)
14:23		paramat joined #minetest-hub
14:26	CWz_	Its the paramat
14:26	paramat	hi. rdococ please could you ask a channel op for voice? we like to have everyone voiced here
14:33	Shara	Seems he's just not identified
14:34	CWz_	if not identified that could only mean... That rdococ is a spy!
14:35	Shara	I'm too lazy to voice people who are on the list but are too lazy to identify :)
14:43	CWz	Shara have the ongoing attacks ceased yet
14:44	Shara	RC had a ddos earlier today as well.
14:44	Shara	I lost bouncer connection for about ten minutes due to it
14:44	Shara	No idea if related to the DL attacks or not.
14:44	CWz	Well, f***... well back in my day, nobody ddosed servers
14:45	Shara	Even had email from my provider due to it
14:45	red-001	:(
14:46	red-001	I assume it's the same people that have been hacking the server?
14:46	Shara	No way to tell really.
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14:46	red-001	yeah I suppsoe
14:46	Shara	RC isn't even hosted on the same server as DL, so may or may not be related
14:46	red-001	suppose*
14:46	Shara	And DL attacks haven't included ddos, as far as I know
14:51	CWz	DarKLands seem to attact a lot of evilings
14:51	Shara	It's only really been... since certain events.
14:55	rubenwardy	what form was the DDoS?
14:57	CWz	There are multiple froms?
14:57	rubenwardy	classic connection hogging, large payloads, ping of death
14:58	Shara	Not sure in all honesty.
14:58	rubenwardy	do you know whether it was against Minetest or a HTTP server?
14:58	rubenwardy	just interested
14:58	Fixer	now kids can ddos
14:58	Shara	No, and very limited time to try and figure it out right now.
14:59	rubenwardy	ah, ok :P
15:01	Shara	There's very little there to target other than the MT server though
15:03	Jordach	>trying to beat XFCE4 into place
15:03	Jordach	>installs KDE
15:03	Jordach	m a d m a n
15:03	Fixer	https://i.imgur.com/dW02END.png
15:04	Krock	no, it's not the END.
15:04	Krock	we will continue
15:04	Fixer	Krock: wat?
15:05	Krock	see the URL
15:05	Fixer	Krock: what url?
15:05	Fixer	._____.
15:05	Krock	interpreting your face makes me feel that you've seen it
15:06	Fixer	Krock: we will continue what?
15:06	* Fixer	adds two more mods into mod folder
15:06	Krock	programming, testing, fixing and playing Minetest :^)
15:07	Fixer	Krock: agree
15:07	Fixer	Wuzzy seems to increase bug report production recently
15:08	red-001	hi
15:08	Calinou	hi
15:08	red-001	my password is aHVudGVyMg==
15:08	Fixer	from what?
15:09	Fixer	maaaaaaaaaake a moooooooooooooove
15:09	Fixer	it is all in your head
15:09	Fixer	https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/6f6s20/minetest_0416_released_open_source/
15:09	Fixer	^^
15:09	Fixer	failure
15:11	Fixer	it is funny to read "minetest is for poor people who can't afford minecraft" what the fuck they talk about, even 3 yr old can DL pirated launcher of MC...
15:12	red-001	whats pirating?
15:12	Calinou	it's when you surf the high seas of the Web! :D
15:12	red-001	oh so it's like a sailor
15:13	Fixer	emoji with hands
15:13	Krock	yarr harr
15:13	red-001	well I suppose it's a bit more intenset then just surfing?
15:14	Krock	surfing with just one eye
15:14	red-001	huh we call it the web be we sure love using sea metaphors
15:14	red-001	Krock, sounds intense
15:14	red-001	you have like no 3d vision then
15:15	Krock	does that matter? your surfing simulator display is 2D anyway
15:15	Fixer	1.5d vision
15:16	Fixer	if only we had colored clay for 0.5 MTG
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15:19	Fixer	https://www.reddit.com/r/thisismylifenow/comments/6f6tja/this_guy_benchpressing_a_goose_at_la_park/
15:19	Fixer	now this is unexpected
15:19	red-001	hi dtscode
15:19	red-001	someone should give them voice
15:20	Krock	or (s)he should request voice
15:20	red-001	well I suppose so
15:22	red-001	dtscode, if you want to talk in this channel send a PM to one of the OP's asking for voice
15:23	paramat	and please 'identify' your nick with Nickserv
15:23	red-001	paramat, they have
15:23	red-001	notice the cloak
15:24	benrob0329-latop	Jordach: oh gosh why
15:24	Shara	I will voice, if someone can either tell me who it is, or they PM me
15:28	red-001	huh I saw the nick "nchambers" before
15:29	Shara	Yea, same, but can't place it
15:29	Calinou	they're in other channels I'm in
15:29	Calinou	probably a legit person :P
15:29	Shara	Hmm, let's see what happens then
15:30	red-001	well they are staff at learnprogramming
15:30	Calinou	also, I'm in the process of making 0.4.16/Git AppImages
15:30	red-001	and that is a reasoably large channel
15:30	Fixer	https://blog.alteroot.org/articles/2017-05-30/road-to-xfce-4.14-part-2.html
15:33	Krock	Calinou, you'd have to revert some commits to build the "stable" one, if it's what you want
15:34	Krock	s/revert/reset/
15:34	Calinou	Krock: I know
15:34	Calinou	I'm building master and stable 0.4.16 in parallel anyway
15:34	Calinou	my script can build an arbitrary number of branches
15:34	Krock	okay
15:40	Fuchs	dtscode is fine
15:40	Fuchs	I have no idea why he is in here
15:40	Fuchs	but he has been on this network long enough and I know him
15:41	Fixer	https://i.redd.it/c9bvt4fn0v0z.jpg
15:42	Calinou	is his password "aligator5"?
15:49	Fixer	lets see how master compiles for me
15:53	DS-minetest	Krock: is that you?
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15:58	* red-001	starts to hate lua
15:58	red-001	of course it converts strings into number
15:58	red-001	but not when you are expecting it to
16:02	Fixer	does not compile to me, unfortunately, that means I will need to wait two weeks for Debian 9 and upgrade my build VM
16:04	Krock	DS-minetest, maybe.
16:04	* Krock	is amused that his Win XP machine beats Linux for once
16:04	Krock	even if it's only a few distributions
16:04	Calinou	my parents might finally get new machines
16:05	Calinou	they do office work mostly, but their current ones are very slow
16:05	Calinou	and one of them also manages to be very noisy
16:05	Calinou	both all-in-ones
16:06	Fixer	Calinou: heared Pentium 4 3.6GHz machine in office, holy fuck it was noisy and hot, temp was approaching 67C in idle, my Northwood 2.8GHz was like 30C at idle, Presscot crap?
16:07	Calinou	a new PC should be built for one of them, with a Pentium G4560 or something
16:07	Calinou	it's a 2-core, 4-thread CPU at 3.5 GHz
16:07	Calinou	pretty nice, and fairly cheap
16:07	Calinou	should be quite power-saving too
16:07	Calinou	(it's Kaby Lake)
16:07	Fixer	Calinou: do multiseat :trollface:
16:07	Calinou	heh
16:09	Krock	Calinou, I've seen a video about a quite cheap setup recently: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=epIlB49SNTI
16:12	rubenwardy	thanks for adding authors to the changelog, red-001
16:16	rubenwardy	Please may a french speaker ask what graphics card (integrated or otherwise) they use? https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=17794&view=unread#unread
16:16	rubenwardy	and also the opengl version
16:16	Calinou	I saw that topic, people are talking about it in #minetest-fr
16:17	rubenwardy	kk
16:17	Calinou	I'll reply on IRC
16:17	Calinou	also, hi rubenwardy :)
16:17	rubenwardy	make sure you post a link though, for future readers :)
16:17	rubenwardy	Hi
16:17	Calinou	I learned about a fancy trick to build AppImages without path errors
16:17	Calinou	well, path warnings actually
16:17	Calinou	the infamous "WARNING: could not find..." that popped whenever someone ran an AppImage of mine
16:24	* Jordach	runs pacman -Syyu
16:24	Jordach	ain't nobody got time fo octopi
16:32	Fixer	Krock: if you want some advanced ### with compiling, try MSYS2/mingw64 on windows
16:32	Fixer	every time I try it, I fail
16:33	Fixer	everything works, except at compilation or linking, i don't remember, fucker won't find needed libraries for strange reasons
16:33	Krock	Fixer, well thanks for the offer but MSVC was already pita enough
16:33	Krock	maybe you linked the libs wrongly or it has troubles with unicode paths
16:36	Fixer	no unicode
16:36	Fixer	no spaces
16:36	Fixer	it was weird
16:36	Fixer	i rage quitted
16:37		nerzhul joined #minetest-hub
16:37	Krock	o/ nerzhul
16:40	nerzhul	Krock, ?
16:40	nerzhul	hi Krock
16:40	nerzhul	why o/ ?
16:40	Fixer	tried to read this http://www.mingw.org/wiki/includepathhowto, but still wth it is not working as easy as in linux mingw -_-
16:40	Krock	why not? 50% chance to be greeted this way
16:41	nerzhul	oh, it's better chance than loto :D
16:41	Krock	huh? "loto"?
16:41	Krock	oh
16:41	Krock	lotto
16:41	nerzhul	lotto in english sorry :)
16:42	Krock	Fixer, here I defined all paths as absolute ones, using cmake-gui
16:43	Krock	starting with a minimal build first (no freetype or sound)
16:44	Fixer	https://pastebin.com/raw/5vDjHfFQ
16:44	Krock	and then successive testing until done
16:44	Fixer	it has search list for headers
16:45	Fixer	i've tried to place irrlicht headers literally into everything
16:45	Fixer	in any layouts possible
16:45	Fixer	up to dumping everything as big pile
16:51	Fixer	Calinou: remind me again on how to update everything via pacman, please
16:51	Jordach	pacman -Syy
16:51	Calinou	pacman -Syu
16:51	Calinou	(with sudo)
16:51	Jordach	pacman -Ssyu
16:51	Jordach	or the above
16:53	Krock	pacman -Svacousswitches
16:53	Krock	*vacuous
16:55	Fixer	thanks
16:55	Fixer	updating
16:55	Fixer	will try to approach that mess again
16:55	Calinou	pacman -Abcdefghij...
16:55	Calinou	:D
16:55	Fixer	make compiling great agin
16:55	Fixer	again
16:55	Fixer	or faster at least
16:56	Fixer	under VM it is abysmally slow
16:56	Fixer	15 minutes
16:56	Fixer	:(
16:56	Fixer	the problem in itself is this case:
16:56	Fixer	#include <irrlicht.h>
16:56	Fixer	#include <iostream>
16:56	Fixer	#include "CGUITTFont.h"
16:56	nerzhul	Krock, you moved to archlinux ?
16:56	Fixer	don't remember what, but it either can't find guys in < > or in " "
16:57	Krock	nerzhul, huh? no, just playing a bit with this command argument
16:58	nerzhul	okay
17:11	red-001	sudo pacman -Syu --no-preserve-root
17:18	Calinou	keeping a backup of my VMs has proven to be really helpful for OS migrations
17:18	Calinou	so I keep my settings around, for once :P
17:19	Calinou	also, woo, I reached 5,800 link karma on Reddit :D
17:19	Calinou	and the reply to the first comment on the /r/linux post has -79 points :D
17:20	red-001	wow that early comment got downvoted all the way down
17:20	Krock	Calinou, and what benefits do you have of this high karma?
17:21	red-001	ahh and I was ninja'd again
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17:21	Calinou	Krock: it looks good on my resume
17:21	red-001	hi IhrFussel
17:21	Calinou	;)
17:21	Krock	some forumers think the same of their post count
17:21	Krock	hi IhrFussel
17:22	red-001	Krock, wait are you telling me that forum post counts are meaningless?
17:22	red-001	that can't be
17:22	Krock	red-001, they're overrated sometimes as it depends on the content quality
17:23	IhrFussel	I find it funny that starting a thread doesn't count as "post"
17:23	Calinou	perfect, my Minetest AppImages (both master and stable) work on Debian 8 and Fedora 25 :)
17:23	Krock	neither does it if you post in the news section
17:24	IhrFussel	Oh and hi back to you red-001 and Krock ^^
17:24	Krock	o/
17:25	red-001	\o
17:28	IhrFussel	Can someone tell me what the sneak options are? I have no clue which behavior to choose
17:29	IhrFussel	If I understood it correctly there is an old behavior and a new one...and many dislike the new one...correct?
17:29	red-001	https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=17397
17:30	paramat	^ that
17:30	red-001	new behavior, new behavior that imitates the old one and old behavior
17:53	CWz	ShadowBot, tell tenplus1 so there is milk bucket in mobs_redo... why isn't there a milk_source and milk_flowing? this is been bugging me, man!
17:53	ShadowBot	CWz: O.K.
17:54	paramat	heh milk source is cow?
17:57	Calinou	is milk open source?
17:59	Raven262	Oddly enough, I'm working on a game that actually has milk source and flowing milk, also has cookies.
18:00	IhrFussel	So the "old move code" will be deprecated when 0.5.0 releases, but the newer one that imitates the old one will continue to exist?
18:01	IhrFussel	Or will all options be replaced by a completely new one?
18:10	Krock	IhrFussel, depending on the player's opinion of the new sneak code's bugs/features there's still the PR 5533 pending to provide yet another algorithm
18:10	Krock	but the behaviour overall will stay about the same
18:11	Krock	i.e. sneak_glitch switch for sneak ladders and no falling down when releasing sneak
18:11	Krock	s/sneak/sne*k/g
18:15	IhrFussel	Krock, I honestly never used any sneak glitches/hacks/tricks ... is the old code the one that allows to jump higher when sneaking?
18:15	Krock	both codes do
18:16	Krock	if you mean double node jumps: afaik not possible anymore in the new sneak code due a different node position calculation
18:16	IhrFussel	Cause right now I use 0.4.16-dev with default code and there is no higher jump so it seems to be disabled
18:17	IhrFussel	Ok so the old code is required for 2 node high jumps
18:18	Krock	yes
18:18	Krock	(or a modified jump velocity setting)
18:24	Calinou	ok, got automatic SHA-256 file generation to work
18:36	paramat	"the newer one that imitates the old one will continue to exist?" yes
18:36	paramat	the 'sneak glitch' physics override enables a new replication of sneak ladders and 2 node sneak jump
18:36	garywhite	so no more 2-node jumps?
18:37	paramat	"double node jumps: afaik not possible anymore in the new sneak code due a different node position calculation" 2 node sneak jump is replicated and works
18:38	paramat	for 2 node sneak jump you can use new move code plus 'sneak glitch'
18:39	paramat	"so the old code is required for 2 node high jumps" no, also supported by new move code as an option
18:40	paramat	Krock should know all this :]
18:41	paramat	IhrFussel ^
18:41	IhrFussel	paramat, wait so if I use the 4 code lines from the forum for "old code" do I still need to enable anything else if I want the entire old behavior?
18:41	paramat	you don't, enabling 'old move code' gets you exactly old behaviour with sneak jump and sneak ladders enabled
18:42	paramat	and yes at 0.5 the 'old move code' option will be removed
18:42	paramat	then you will have new sneak code with an option for 2 node sneak jump and sneak ladders
18:43	paramat	the new move code has been improving and may improve further with Krock's work
18:44	paramat	the only issues left are minor, apart from one issue which is important to someone here :]
18:44	paramat	new sneak code is fairly good now, but cannot be exactly the same as before
18:45	paramat	0.5 gives us an excuse to remove the old code completely and break some parkour worlds
18:49	IhrFussel	And maybe to make all physics server-side /s :P
18:50	IhrFussel	I mean the calculations
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19:16	garywhite	what is the rarest block in MT now?
19:19	paramat	cloud or dirt with footsteps?
19:20	garywhite	oh, I though it was mese or diamond blocks
19:22	IhrFussel	You didn't say "minetest_game" so rainbow ore on my server
19:27	paramat	well, of nodes actually generated in vanilla, mese block probably
19:27	paramat	cloud and dirt with footsteps are in MTG but only to support old worlds
19:27		behaleba- joined #minetest-hub
19:43	garywhite	You guys finally added a percentage to the media load
19:49	Jordach	EXCELLENTE TYPO
19:49	Jordach	Player data can now be into database
19:52	Krock	google "php/c"
19:53	Krock	^ offtopic, sorry
19:56	garywhite	I used to get a command prompt window that would print all the stuff to debug, now there is no such thing
19:57	garywhite	what happened?
19:58		Raven262 joined #minetest-hub
19:59	Krock	garywhite, in the Windows build? start it with --console or from cmd directly
19:59	garywhite	Well, that sucks...I used to be able to quit much quicker by just Alt+F4ing the console window
20:00	Krock	just change your minetest links to start it with the additional param
20:01	Krock	there's also the "enable_console" setting but I'm not getting it to work
20:02	garywhite	idk where it is, I'll worry about it tomorrow. I gotta go in a little while so I'll just take care of it later
20:04	Fixer	remind me please, command to look up the location of file in NIX
20:04	Fixer	that shows path to file
20:06	Fixer	Error running link command: â•¨Ðâ•¨â•¡
20:06	Fixer	what the fuck
20:06	Fixer	forgot dots
20:08		bigfoot547 joined #minetest-hub
20:13		dtscode joined #minetest-hub
20:22	Fixer	$ make[1]: *** [Makefile:276: cmake_check_build_system] Interrupt
20:22	Fixer	.________________.
20:25	Calinou	>when even CMake doesn't believe in your compiler
20:29	Krock	let's compile it with Borland
20:33	garywhite	what about BASIC?
20:35	Krock	basic is not a compiler
20:36	Fixer	Calinou: it also exits in weird way into CMD itself, and not into bash
20:37	Fixer	passes cmake and then stops on cmake_check_build_system with any errors
20:38	nerzhul	nice to see many projects are switching to C++11; https://sourceware.org/ml/gdb-announce/2017/msg00003.html
20:41		behaleba- joined #minetest-hub
20:45		rubywarden joined #minetest-hub
20:48		dtscode joined #minetest-hub
20:54	IhrFussel	WTH is my hoster doing?! dmesg is full of [2499598.408615] e1000e: eth0 NIC Link is Down [2499615.567461] e1000e: eth0 NIC Link is Up 100 Mbps Full Duplex, Flow Control: None
20:55		bwarden joined #minetest-hub
20:57		paramat joined #minetest-hub
21:13	nerzhul	http://en.cppreference.com/w/cpp/numeric/math/signbit
21:13	nerzhul	lol
21:15	Krock	wow great. a function that implements (number & MSB) != 0
21:16	nerzhul	Krock, some STL functions are just... STL for STL :p but they are there and prvent coding errors heh
21:17	nerzhul	https://twitter.com/mrkkrj/status/854241747936915456 this is an excellent usage of unique_ptr to properly finish C resources
21:22	dtscode	thanks shara <3
21:23	nerzhul	ty ShadowBot
21:24	IhrFussel	OMG it just happened again...my dedicated machine is losing the connection to the network! That's unacceptable
21:24	dtscode	what provider?
21:24	IhrFussel	Strato (German)
21:24	Fixer	make -f CMakeFiles\Makefile2 all
21:24	Fixer	Microsoft Windows [Version 6.1.7601]
21:25	* Fixer	thinks
21:25	dtscode	IhrFussel: fwiw, ramnode has never gone down for me
21:28	IhrFussel	Look at this! https://pastebin.com/PrZvXufF ... there is nothing I can do here, I can't even operate the machine due to connection loss
21:30	Fixer	$(MAKE) -f lib\gmp\CMakeFiles\gmp.dir\build.make lib/gmp/CMakeFiles/gmp.dir/depend
21:30	Fixer	\ \ \ 0 / / /
21:30	garywhite	Windows 6.1.7601...that's 7, according to my records
21:31	Krock	5 is 2000, 6.1 is 7 and 10 is 10 math mind = blown
21:33	garywhite	They never kept it straight
21:33	IhrFussel	Krock, what's XP then? and Vista?
21:34	Krock	6.0 is vista, 5.1 xp
21:34	Krock	and somewhere there's Neptune
21:37	garywhite	1.0,2.0,3.0,3.1,3,11,3.5,3.51,4.0 (95/NT),4.1 (98), 4.9 (ME), 5.0 (2000), 5.1 (XP), 6.0 (Vista), 6.1 (7), 6.2 (8), 6.3 (8.1), 10 (10)
21:37	Krock	funny enough that ME was released after 2000
21:39	Fixer	fatal error: endian.h: No such file or directory
21:39	Fixer	.__________.
21:45	Fixer	SHELL = cmd.exe
21:45	Fixer	._.
21:49	Fixer	mingw32-make ._o
21:51	Fixer	goes DEEPER
21:52	Fixer	compiles
21:53	Fixer	oh boy
21:56	Fixer	mingw stuff is confusing
21:57	Fixer	49%
21:58	Fixer	and that fucker will ultimately fail at 100% or making final exe stage, probably
21:58	Fixer	will see
21:59	Fixer	sooo much faster than in VM
22:00	Fixer	hoping final exe is not 32bit .____.
22:03	Fixer	error at 100%
22:04	Fixer	https://pastebin.com/raw/XKLXRhKV
22:04	Fixer	leveldb related
22:04	Fixer	lets disable it
22:06		Miner_48er joined #minetest-hub
22:13	Fixer	compiles in 6 minutes
22:13	red-001	Fixer, if your system is like my system it will crash on start up
22:14	red-001	I installed the compiler and all
22:14	red-001	disabled leveldb because of that error
22:14	red-001	and I get a crash on startup as thanks
22:14	Fixer	:)
22:15	Fixer	red-001: linux?
22:15	red-001	yeah arch
22:15	Fixer	thats is msys2/mingw64 under win7
22:15	Fixer	that is*
22:16	red-001	bloody compiling in MSVC was easier then this, if you managed to get the precompiled libs
22:19	Fixer	it gonna fail for sure again
22:19	Fixer	IT COMPILED O_O
22:19	* Fixer	turns up vaporwave volume
22:21	Fixer	:o
22:21	Fixer	it runs
22:22	Fixer	GREAT SUCCESS
22:22	red-001	wow nice
22:23	red-001	Fixer++
22:23	red-001	!points
22:23	red-001	!help
22:23	ShadowBot	red-001: help [<plugin>] [<command>]
22:23	red-001	!list
22:23	ShadowBot	red-001: Admin, Aka, Anonymous, BanNotify, Brainfuck, Channel, ChannelLogger, ChannelStats, Conditional, Config, Ctcp, DDG, Debug, DerplangPlus, Dict, Filter, FloodProtector, Format, Games, GitHub, Karma, Later, Logger, Math, MessageParser, Minetest, Misc, MoobotFactoids, Network, Note, Owner, Plugin, Quote, Reply, Scheduler, Services, Status, String, Time, Topic, URL, Unix, User, Util, (1 more message)
22:23	Fixer	NO STUTTERING
22:23	Fixer	?
22:23	red-001	!help Karma
22:23	ShadowBot	red-001: (karma [<channel>] [<thing> ...]) -- Returns the karma of <thing>. If <thing> is not given, returns the top N karmas, where N is determined by the config variable supybot.plugins.Karma.rankingDisplay. If one <thing> is given, returns the details of its karma; if more than one <thing> is given, returns the total karma of each of the things. <channel> is only necessary if the message (1 more message)
22:23	red-001	!Karma
22:23	ShadowBot	red-001: Highest karma: "Krock" (6), "red" (2), and "it's bad enough in C" (1). Lowest karma: "red-004" (-1), "is it the new evil lang" (-1), and "read-00" (-1).
22:24	red-001	!Karma Fixer
22:24	ShadowBot	red-001: Karma for "Fixer" has been increased 1 time and decreased 0 times for a total karma of 1.
22:32	red-001	wow youtube subtitle autogeneration has improved massivly
22:33	Fixer	o.O
22:33	Fixer	amazing
22:34	Fixer	Hail to all black forces that helped me to compile via msys2/mingw64/gcc6: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DBZeThXUIAAEbLK.jpg:large
22:35	Fixer	_CLOSE TO NO STUTTERING IN SINGLEPLAYER_
22:35	Fixer	it appears, but in much less noticeably way
22:36	Fixer	will do my special automated test to confirm
22:40	Fixer	:O
22:42	Fixer	could be ground breaking
22:43	Fixer	time to visit VanessaE
22:43	VanessaE	?
22:43	VanessaE	oh.
22:44	VanessaE	better have a shovel handy
22:44	paramat	FPS seems smoother to me since c55's work
22:44	VanessaE	you'll need it to dig up the molten slag that was your computer
22:44		srifqi joined #minetest-hub
22:44	Fixer	paramat: it was still very crappy for me, but when I seen msys2/mingw64 build...
22:45	Fixer	will do fraps automated tests ofc
22:45	Fixer	paramat: singleplayer was amasing, even near jungle
22:46	red-001	yeah I was an idiot
22:47	red-001	I forgot to copy some dlls
22:47	Fixer	even on Vanessa Dreamb Surv it is much better than via older method
22:47	Fixer	it is much nicer stutter
22:48	Fixer	ground breaking
22:48	Fixer	time for testing
22:49	Fixer	will do same build via old method
22:49	VanessaE	what, no molten slag?
22:49	* VanessaE	adds more mods
22:49	VanessaE	how about now? :P
22:49	Fixer	VanessaE: that can be ground breaking
22:49	octacian	What is with make rebuilding everything when I just changed some C++ in literally 2 files?
22:50	* red-001	honesly doesn't know
22:50	red-001	cmake seems to interact with make in werid ways
22:50	Fixer	octacian: do not rerun cmake
22:50	Fixer	octacian: just do make
22:50	octacian	I just run the command "make", and it rebuilds everything
22:50	octacian	That's all I do
22:50	Fixer	should not
22:51	red-001	make auto reruns cmake sometimes
22:51	octacian	Wonder if running "make -j$(nproc)" would help? IDK
22:51	red-001	I think it's for that version display thing
22:51	red-001	if it's just that I wish there was a way to disable it
22:52	octacian	ugh.. Incredibly annoying though. I just wanna test if one thing works, and I'm like 3m
22:52	* octacian	goes to Google
22:52	srifqi	red-001, maybe because those files are included in many files?
22:53	red-001	could be
22:54	octacian	Probably... Was working on lua_api/l_main_menu.cpp and l_main_menu.h
22:54	octacian	But still, it's rebuilding literally everything
22:55	srifqi	But, I was just changing a constant value and it only rebuild that file. .-.
22:56	* octacian	is confused :rofl:
22:56	octacian	On the plus side, finally finished rebuilding everything
22:57	red-001	https://transfer.sh/fYtvJ/minetest-0.4.16-win64.zip <- anyone want to be the test subject for a non RUN_IN_PLACE minetest windows build?
22:59	* red-001	reboots and becomes their own test subjetc
23:05	octacian	And another thing on the bright side, is I just submitted my first, albeit simple, C++ PR :D
23:06	octacian	red-001: Is anyone working on enabling/disabling clientmods in main menu?
23:06	red-001	no
23:06	octacian	OK, good
23:06	red-001	sofar didn't like the idea
23:06	red-001	but then sofar disappred off to somewhere
23:06	octacian	It should be available, either way. The very concept of no ability to manage client-side mods from the main menu is a bad idea IMO
23:07	red-001	well they are suppose to be mostly sent by the server
23:07	octacian	Anyways, I've been working on rewriting the modmgr and will add support for installing/uninstalling and enabling/disabling clientmods to the API at the same time
23:07	octacian	True, true. However, it could still be very useful to manage from the main menu.
23:07	red-001	this whole custom client supplied mods thing was not really planned
23:08	octacian	heh, I see.
23:08	octacian	Personally, I think it is quite nice
23:08	octacian	Sure, sure. It does allow for more vulnerabilities (possibly), but IMO they're worth it.
23:09	octacian	Plus, clientmods like the who and who_plus mods wouldn't likely be provided by the server. They are something that would be very useful to manage entirely client-side.
23:10	octacian	So my current idea is to display client-side mods in the mods tab, when selected show that they are clientmods just beneath the title and can be enabled/disabled from there
23:10	red-001	http://i.imgur.com/7QebRcO.png
23:10	Fixer	msys2/mingw64 full compile - 7 min @ 4 threads \| debian vm mingw64 - 15 min @ 2 threads
23:10	red-001	it works!!
23:11	red-001	and yes I'm running as admin feel free to say my security is shitty
23:11	red-001	octacian, that's a decent idea
23:11	red-001	CSM modding got a bit of a bad rep due to oredetect
23:12	Fixer	time for FRAPS
23:12	octacian	Yeah...
23:12	octacian	I honestly wouldn't worry so much though.
23:12	red-001	also I didn't expect someone to already notice my first CSM mod fork
23:13	octacian	Every once in a while I get bored and just stalk the forums for new posts :rofl:
23:13	red-001	lol
23:13	Fixer	brb
23:13	octacian	Have you also considered adding a button to teleport to the player? Maybe to bring the player to you as well?
23:14	red-001	yeah I should do that
23:14	octacian	It'd be neat to be able to manage PMs in a clientmod
23:14	red-001	I just added kick and ban first since they are the simplest
23:14	octacian	Kinda like emails
23:14	octacian	Yeah lol
23:14	red-001	yeah I will add that at some point
23:15	octacian	Meh, I think it deserves it's own mod
23:15	red-001	plus I should add confirmation dialogs to the kick and ban commands
23:15	octacian	+1
23:16	octacian	hmm, Who isn't working reliable
23:16	red-001	I know
23:16	red-001	I keep forgetting to make a bug report/pr for that
23:16	octacian	e.g. It shows 5 players when there's 25
23:17	red-001	octacian, and they don't show up in .list_players right?
23:17	octacian	Yup, still just the 5 players
23:18	red-001	that's because of the incorrect method minetest uses for the nick auto-completion/csm player list
23:18	red-001	it's also why I closed by join/leave player callback pr
23:18	octacian	So, what is wrong with the method?
23:18	red-001	the tl;dr of it is you can only see players whos nametags you can see
23:19	octacian	huh, interesting
23:19	red-001	it scraps the player object data to get names
23:19	red-001	instead of the server sending names to the client
23:20	octacian	How hard would it be to fix?
23:20	red-001	not too hard
23:20	red-001	just a new packet
23:21	octacian	Maybe I'll give it a try sometime if no one else does. I'm trying to learn C++ myself
23:21	paramat	i don't like the idea of client-supplied clientmods either, seems it would just cause more trouble, even though servers can disable them
23:22	srifqi	So, CSM is disable-able?
23:22	red-001	eh no?
23:22	red-001	I do not recall such a feature being added
23:23	paramat	hm
23:23	paramat	i thought that a server could prevent a client-provided mod from causing trouble
23:23	octacian	paramat: I don't see that it could create very much trouble. I don't think the server should have control over whether clientmods are used or not either
23:24	paramat	(.. seems the least we should do)
23:24	octacian	This is one area where I personally think MT has become way too tight. Yes, security is important, but usability is even more (to some extent).
23:24	paramat	well there already cheat mods
23:24	octacian	For example, a CSM to display the players in a nice formspec.
23:25	octacian	It would be incredibly unlikely that the server owner would set it up so that the clientmod were available
23:25	octacian	It's something that instead should be installed at the discretion of the user
23:25	paramat	if you give client players a chance to cause trouble they will do it, client-provided clientmods encourages that
23:25	octacian	paramat: True. I'm on a server right now where someone's using oredetect. However, all of this was already possible by modifying the client
23:26	octacian	Yes, it does. But it increases the usability particularly for people with slow internet.
23:26	paramat	no MT is not tight enough when it comes to preventing troublemakers, server owners are already sick of troublesome clients
23:27	octacian	I guess that is true. However, I see no reason to disallow clients from loading CSMs
23:27	paramat	server should provide everything, players can always ask for certain clientmods
23:28	paramat	yes already possible, but now much easier and encouraged
23:28	octacian	At this point the only exploits that CSMs make easier is detecting nodes around you and stealing from chests if the server-side mod doesn't check that the player is owner when taking items
23:28	red-001	but a lot less useful
23:28	octacian	No one is encouraging it
23:28	octacian	If only the server could send mods, we'd practically be right back where we started. Sure, it'd allow for faster things client-side, but it'd be of no use to most players.
23:28	red-001	oredetect is a lot worse then what some basic c++ exploit get you
23:29	red-001	the chest thing is sadly hard to fix
23:29	paramat	"But it increases the usability particularly for people with slow internet" not allowing client provided clientmods is not the same as not allowing CSM
23:30		Fixer joined #minetest-hub
23:30	paramat	well i've explained good reasons
23:30	Fixer	more news
23:30	paramat	detecting nodes is bad enough, that's trouble and cheating
23:30	octacian	Personally, I think the good outweighs the bad
23:31	Fixer	i tested debian-mingw64 vs msys2-mingw64 for stuttering
23:31	Fixer	unexpected news
23:31	Fixer	they both have similar stutter, that means it was improved recently? o_O
23:31	Fixer	when?
23:31	paramat	"but it'd be of no use to most players." server-sent clientmods is extremely useful already
23:32	Fixer	the only difference is leveldb support
23:32	Fixer	from my previous builds
23:32	Fixer	but that should not affect stuttering
23:33	paramat	players can always ask for certain clientmods, and we can't take anymore badness, ask a server admin
23:33	octacian	Well, I think at this point we've gone over all the pros and cons. I'd personally be very unhappy to see the clients loading CSMs go away. Personally I wouldn't like a feature to allow servers to disable CSMs.
23:33	octacian	If I were a server admin, I for one would prefer it if players could install CSMs themselves rather than me installing them for the players.
23:34	paramat	Fixer c55s work improved stutter a few months ago
23:34	Fixer	paramat: no it is not mostly, it was still very shitty... but wth changed now...
23:35	Fixer	i will compile with leveldb support and verify again
23:36	Fixer	F5 graph results felt different
23:36	octacian	paramat: What if find_nodes_near used by oredetect had a limited radius?
23:36	rubenwardy	CSM is actually making Minetest more secure in the long run
23:37	octacian	^ +1
23:37	rubenwardy	it's making it easier to exploit mistakes which should have been fixed before
23:37	rubenwardy	like the chest stuff
23:37	rubenwardy	and any formspec field receives
23:37	octacian	Yeah
23:38	Fixer	paramat: singleplayer felt very different on clean config, it was not "fuck this stuttering again", but "woah"
23:38	octacian	Wouldn't just limiting the radius of find_nodes_near deal with oredetect though? Maybe if it were limited to 5-10 nodes
23:38	red-001	well formspec wasn't really caused by CSM
23:38	Fixer	and fraps result analysis supported me
23:39	Fixer	both builds had stat dev of about 3.5, before it was 5.4 or so
23:40	Fixer	msys2 had slightly better fps
23:40	paramat	limiting a feature radius of one clientmod does not address my concerns, and no a limited radius does not make it ok obviously
23:41	octacian	How would it not address your concerns about mods like oredetect?
23:41	Fixer	actually
23:42	Fixer	not long ago it was almost 6.1 (stand dev)
23:42	Fixer	sleep 15ms gives stand dev 1.65
23:42	paramat	ok, well all i'm asking for is the ability for a server to prevent clients using client-provided clientmods, that seems a minimum necessity. with that we still are able to improve through exposing vunerabilities
23:42	Fixer	3.5 vs 6.X is huge visual improvement
23:43	octacian	Wouldn't limiting the radius fix the one vulnerability though?
23:43	paramat	cheating by detecting nodes 5 nodes away instead of 20 makes no difference to the cheating
23:44	octacian	Not really.
23:44	paramat	it's still trouble caused by cheating
23:44	rubenwardy	paramat, impossible
23:44	octacian	Where oredetect is useful is detecting stuff 50-100 nodes away.
23:44	Hijiri	reducing the radius proportionally reduces the usefulness of the search for other uses
23:44	Hijiri	e.g. what ambience mod might do
23:44	Fixer	Why do you need oredetect if ores are superabundand and there are no nyan cats anymore ._.
23:45	Fixer	abundan
23:45	Fixer	d
23:45	Fixer	t
23:45	octacian	Hijiri: Ambience mod wouldn't need to look more than 5-10 nodes away at max.
23:45	rubenwardy	how about distance < 10 or minetest.line_of_sight(player:get_pos(), pos)
23:45	octacian	It'd be better to just provide an API to get what biome the player was in
23:45	paramat	"the ability for a server to prevent clients using client-provided clientmods" is impossible?
23:45	octacian	rubenwardy: +1
23:45	octacian	paramat: The client could probably just avoid it with one line like we can already avoid flight privilege checks
23:46	Hijiri	the client could override the radius check with one line
23:46	octacian	Hijiri: But much less likely
23:46	octacian	Anyone that interested would find a way to cheat CSMs or not
23:46	paramat	good grief this is not about a feature distance of 1 mod, arguing about that is meaningless
23:46	Hijiri	I don't see why it's less likely
23:46	Hijiri	why would a cheater remove a non-modding setting but not remove the radius check?
23:47	octacian	Anyone that interested in cheating would probably find a way to cheat anyways, that's what I'm saying :P
23:47	Hijiri	octacian: isn't that the same case with having a server tell the client not to use its own client mods?
23:47	paramat	yes but this is making it super easy
23:47	paramat	people are now distributing cheat mods and servers can do nothing
23:48	octacian	My personal opinion is that rather than removing the issue by not allowing clients to load CSMs we should fix the issue though, and I personally really like rubenwardy's suggestion
23:48	paramat	"the ability for a server to prevent clients using client-provided clientmods" is impossible?
23:48	Hijiri	it doesn't fix the issue any more than disallowing CSM is
23:48	octacian	It seems to "fix" the issue in the best way possible.
23:49	Hijiri	why is it better than disabling CSM?
23:50	Hijiri	Or maybe at least, disabling the parts of CSM that include getting map data
23:50	octacian	In my opinion, if CSM is only server-side, it becomes meaningless to the client
23:50	Hijiri	Why is that?
23:50	Hijiri	It will still be useful, for example if the server itself wants to provide an ore-finding mod
23:51	Hijiri	And for things like mod-specified user interfaces
23:51	octacian	It becomes meaningful only in that some gameplay aspects could be faster, but it is really only meaningful to reduce load on the server
23:51	rubenwardy	CSM should be for client-side prediction and audiovisuals
23:51	paramat	please can someone answer my question?
23:51	Hijiri	octacian: It reduces latency too, not just computational load
23:51	Hijiri	And it allows code to run on the client
23:52	octacian	Otherwise, if CSMs are allowed, they are meaningful to the player as well since the player can then customize their particular instance.
23:52	Hijiri	Lower latency is a qualitative difference when it comes to UI
23:52	octacian	I agree.
23:52	rubenwardy	the only way it would reduce load is by doing animations by itself (think arrows, etc) without requiring a shit-ton of packets
23:52	Hijiri	octacian: No reason server-provided CSM can't allow customization
23:52	octacian	paramat: We did. It is technically possible, but easily avoidable.
23:52	Hijiri	So is limiting search radius
23:52	Fixer	one more test
23:52	octacian	Hijiri: What if the player wants to have a custom health HUD, for example.
23:53	Hijiri	octacian: You could just allow the parts of the API that don't affect gameplay very much
23:53	Hijiri	I would say that a 10 node radius is still too much, you can hug a wall and find a lot more ores than wandering through a cave
23:53	octacian	ugh, If someone is going to go to the trouble of making it so that their client side mods can have a larger search radius, they'd probably figure out how to cheat even if the CSMs were disabled by the server
23:54	Hijiri	octacian: The difference is that with CSM you have an environment where the cheats all interact nicely with each other, and you don't need to recompile for each new cheat
23:54	octacian	Or, they could just not update their client to the version that implemented the checks for whether CSM was enabled and what API functions were available.
23:54	Hijiri	you just need to remove the restrictions once and make as many cheat mods as you want
23:54	paramat	"The client could probably just avoid it with one line" is no answer. is the ability there now or is it impossible?
23:55	Hijiri	octacian: You could make a server disallowing client-provided client mods require clients to send a packet saying that it has disabled them
23:55	octacian	It's possible to implement, but not possible to enforce.
23:55	octacian	And the client could just send that packet anyways but not disable them
23:55	Hijiri	octacian: yes, but you would need to recompile the client, same as with removing the radius restriction
23:55	Hijiri	octacian: And you couldn't get around it by using an old version
23:57	octacian	This is pointless. My point, is that trying to prevent CSMs is also sorta pointless. It's better to allow CSMs and instead simply take preventions for those items that can be.
23:57	octacian	I mean, it could even be made so that radius checks would be sent to the server, and the server would then return the information
23:58	Hijiri	octacian: I'm fine with that, as long as prevention means just disabling all parts of the API that could be easily used for cheating
23:58	Hijiri	octacian: As long as search radius is useful it will be useful for detecting ores as well
23:58	octacian	Also kinda pointless. The best method of prevention is that rather than trying to disable stuff, instead fix the stuff so that there's no need to disable it.
23:58	paramat	someone could get around it with a hacked client yes, but that is no argument against making it more difficult to cause trouble
23:58	Hijiri	octacian: Why is it pointless?
23:59	Hijiri	You have said that it is but not why it is, and why "fixing" it would not be pointless
23:59	octacian	I'm all for making it more difficult to cause trouble, But just entirely disallowing CSMs or part of the API doesn't seem like the proper solution to me
23:59	octacian	Instead, it seems kinda hacky. It's just a workaround to a problem, rather than a fix to a problem.
23:59	Hijiri	Isn't "searching over X radius" part of the API being disabled?
23:59	paramat	it can't be fixed, discussing 1 mod's radius is completely missing the point
23:59	Hijiri	It's just different levels of disabling
23:59	Hijiri	octacian: And why isn't limiting the search radius a hack?
23:59	Hijiri	Why is it not a workaround or a fix?

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