| Time |
Nick |
Message |
| 00:10 |
|
sniper570 joined #minetest-hub |
| 00:39 |
|
Fuchs joined #minetest-hub |
| 00:42 |
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XtremeHacker joined #minetest-hub |
| 00:48 |
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sniper338 joined #minetest-hub |
| 00:49 |
Calinou |
https://www.youtube.com/user/TheMarcAPullen/featured |
| 00:49 |
Calinou |
hmm, today I learned that an artist I knew for a long time (from Sauerbraten) still does music today! |
| 00:49 |
Calinou |
he even has howto videos it seems |
| 00:49 |
Calinou |
the view count is low :'( |
| 00:51 |
Calinou |
I know about him since 2008, download all of his albums in MP3 form (except one) on Last.fm back when it was available for free |
| 00:51 |
Calinou |
(if anyone wants, ask me) |
| 00:52 |
Calinou |
this guy made me like metal :D |
| 00:54 |
Calinou |
his full albums are also on YouTube (everything on the same video), it can surely be youtube-dl'd and ripped to audio only but then you'd need to split tracks |
| 00:55 |
Calinou |
they probably are of higher quality, at least some of them, the description says that they come from a WAV source |
| 00:58 |
KaadmY |
Nice music |
| 00:59 |
KaadmY |
Any idea if he allow the music to be distributed/used in games? |
| 01:00 |
|
bwarden joined #minetest-hub |
| 01:15 |
Calinou |
KaadmY: yes, it has a CC BY-like license |
| 01:15 |
Calinou |
his Bandcamp lists albums as CC BY-SA |
| 01:16 |
Calinou |
so, it is freely licensed, even though the license is not that formal (if you read the video descriptions) |
| 01:16 |
Calinou |
should be fine, if you give credit, I guess |
| 01:16 |
Calinou |
time to make "Beyond" from Random Thoughts the official Minetest score? :D |
| 01:16 |
rubenwardy |
wooo, just set up a fancy email address: ruben rubenwardy.com |
| 01:17 |
KaadmY |
thanks for mail adress can i have money plese |
| 01:17 |
KaadmY |
i need money in nigeria, help stuck in airport |
| 01:17 |
Calinou |
Hello from minetest prince |
| 01:17 |
Calinou |
Your inquiry for mese |
| 01:17 |
KaadmY |
hello brother |
| 01:17 |
KaadmY |
can i have countr strik |
| 01:17 |
Calinou |
RECEIPT FOR FLY PRIVILEGE PURCHASE |
| 01:17 |
Calinou |
:P |
| 01:25 |
Calinou |
this is Beyond, https://youtu.be/UGWsNDypDxw?t=1626 |
| 01:25 |
Calinou |
jumpscare included! |
| 01:25 |
Calinou |
(I was wondering WTF was happening when I first listened to it) |
| 01:26 |
KaadmY |
Yeah LOL |
| 01:27 |
Calinou |
:D |
| 01:28 |
KaadmY |
> This 16-bit world is yours, I watch you from 200 node viewing distance |
| 01:28 |
KaadmY |
> Look up the sky and see no end until 32k nodes |
| 01:32 |
|
sniper338 joined #minetest-hub |
| 01:32 |
shivajiva |
Gn folks have a good one o/ |
| 01:38 |
Calinou |
surprisingly, this app seems to be still available…? https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/cube/id292763299?mt=8 |
| 01:38 |
Calinou |
(Cube port to iPhone) |
| 01:38 |
Calinou |
it dates back in the iPhone OS 2.x era, 3.x at best. |
| 01:38 |
Calinou |
it ran like crap back then; 10 FPS was common on medium-sized SP maps with monsters visible |
| 01:38 |
Calinou |
I tried it on an iPad 1 once, had 30 FPS most of the time, but it ran at iPhone resolution since it was last updated in 2009-08-08 |
| 01:39 |
Calinou |
I thought Apple removed all not-IPv6-compliant apps |
| 01:39 |
Calinou |
the port does feature multiplayer functionality but it won't work out of the box, IIRC |
| 03:00 |
|
cheapie joined #minetest-hub |
| 03:16 |
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twoelk left #minetest-hub |
| 03:20 |
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DI3HARD139 joined #minetest-hub |
| 04:39 |
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Jordach joined #minetest-hub |
| 04:39 |
* Jordach |
meows |
| 05:13 |
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dax left #minetest-hub |
| 05:49 |
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Raven262 joined #minetest-hub |
| 06:08 |
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CWz joined #minetest-hub |
| 06:09 |
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lumidify joined #minetest-hub |
| 06:20 |
Raven262 |
Yep |
| 06:25 |
Raven262 |
xD |
| 06:31 |
|
DS-minetest joined #minetest-hub |
| 07:12 |
|
LazyJ joined #minetest-hub |
| 07:13 |
Raven262 |
Hello LazyJ |
| 07:13 |
LazyJ |
Howdy Raven262 ;) |
| 07:39 |
|
nerzhul joined #minetest-hub |
| 07:39 |
CWz |
sup |
| 07:42 |
Shara |
Morning all |
| 07:42 |
Raven262 |
Greetings, Shara. |
| 07:42 |
Jordach |
morning from London, Shara |
| 07:42 |
Shara |
I see there is more stuff again. :( |
| 07:42 |
Raven262 |
Stuff? |
| 07:43 |
Shara |
If anyone here is responsible for ddosing him, please stop. It doesn't help. |
| 07:43 |
Shara |
And that is all I'm going to say on the topic. |
| 07:44 |
* Shara |
hands everyone some doughnuts |
| 07:44 |
Raven262 |
As far as I'm concerned from now on, OC exists no more. |
| 07:44 |
Shara |
Hmm, what caused that? |
| 07:45 |
Raven262 |
... |
| 07:45 |
Shara |
Okay. |
| 07:45 |
Raven262 |
I can show you the discussion me an lumidify had on this. |
| 07:45 |
Shara |
It's your choice. |
| 07:46 |
Shara |
I certainly won't push for anything you don't want to share. |
| 07:48 |
Raven262 |
I just want a second opinion of what i did. |
| 07:57 |
|
DS-minetest joined #minetest-hub |
| 08:19 |
Raven262 |
Fuchs, I have something to report concerning OldCoder and his doings. |
| 08:19 |
Raven262 |
A chat log to be more precise. |
| 08:21 |
Raven262 |
Ah i forgot the [off] |
| 08:21 |
Raven262 |
Red already pasted it but i think it should be brought to closer attention. |
| 08:29 |
|
paramat joined #minetest-hub |
| 08:32 |
Raven262 |
Greetings, paramat. |
| 08:34 |
shivajiva |
Good morning folks :) |
| 08:34 |
Raven262 |
Hello shivajiva |
| 08:35 |
Raven262 |
Will the [off] hold if i paste multiple lines? |
| 08:36 |
Raven262 |
T 1495692184 <OldCoder>4th attempt total |
| 08:36 |
Raven262 |
T 1495692188 <OldCoder>Tell our MT friends it failed |
| 08:36 |
Raven262 |
T 1495692196 <OldCoder>And I've got legal justification now |
| 08:36 |
Raven262 |
T 1495692203 <OldCoder>To do pretty much anything on Freenode |
| 08:36 |
Raven262 |
T 1495692221 <OldCoder>I'm discussing shutting down PIA web domains |
| 08:36 |
Raven262 |
T 1495692224 <OldCoder>wtih DreamHost |
| 08:36 |
Raven262 |
T 1495692229 <OldCoder>the registrar for PIA |
| 08:36 |
Raven262 |
T 1495692233 <OldCoder>which now owns Freenode |
| 08:36 |
Raven262 |
T 1495692241 <OldCoder>They will dig in their heels; might take a year |
| 08:36 |
Raven262 |
T 1495692247 <OldCoder>I'm patient |
| 08:36 |
Raven262 |
heh |
| 08:36 |
Raven262 |
guess not |
| 08:36 |
Raven262 |
But who cares, he already know we have that. |
| 08:36 |
Raven262 |
*knows |
| 09:19 |
|
nerzhul joined #minetest-hub |
| 10:20 |
|
Fixer joined #minetest-hub |
| 10:21 |
|
Jordach joined #minetest-hub |
| 10:21 |
* Jordach |
meows at Shara |
| 10:47 |
|
paramat joined #minetest-hub |
| 10:48 |
|
DS-minetest joined #minetest-hub |
| 11:01 |
|
Krock joined #minetest-hub |
| 11:01 |
|
Krock joined #minetest-hub |
| 11:13 |
nerzhul |
hi off |
| 11:13 |
nerzhul |
haha |
| 11:25 |
nerzhul |
hi shivajiva |
| 11:27 |
benrob0329 |
Hello all :-) |
| 11:29 |
benrob0329 |
export OFF="FALSE" |
| 11:29 |
rubenwardy |
claiming that off is a boolean??? |
| 11:30 |
rubenwardy |
That could get you killed in here! |
| 11:30 |
rubenwardy |
:P |
| 11:30 |
Raven262 |
xD |
| 11:38 |
|
twoelk joined #minetest-hub |
| 11:40 |
benrob0329 |
https://youtu.be/7cUL1HKfTK0 |
| 12:20 |
|
RobbieF joined #minetest-hub |
| 12:30 |
|
NathanS21 joined #minetest-hub |
| 12:37 |
Krock |
why, shivajiva? |
| 12:39 |
|
shivajiva joined #minetest-hub |
| 12:40 |
shivajiva |
wtf |
| 12:43 |
|
CWz joined #minetest-hub |
| 12:50 |
paramat |
surely you are notified why? seems odd |
| 12:55 |
paramat |
phew |
| 12:55 |
DS-minetest |
what is the max_hear_distance of a sound when a player places a node? |
| 12:55 |
VanessaE |
depends on the setting of the node |
| 12:56 |
VanessaE |
I think typical you'd want like 10 or 15m |
| 12:56 |
paramat |
erm |
| 12:56 |
DS-minetest |
default doesn't set it |
| 12:56 |
VanessaE |
oh the actual placement action |
| 12:56 |
VanessaE |
that's only audible to you isn't it? |
| 12:56 |
DS-minetest |
or do even other players hear it when a player places something? >_< |
| 12:57 |
Krock |
if you specify a hear distance, it will also be sent to the other players close to you |
| 12:57 |
DS-minetest |
and if not? |
| 12:57 |
Krock |
then it's only hearable for you |
| 12:57 |
DS-minetest |
ok |
| 12:58 |
paramat |
can you specify a hear distance for node placement? |
| 12:59 |
Krock |
oh. SimpleSoundSpec and 'sound parameter table' are two different things |
| 12:59 |
Krock |
first is for node placements, 2nd for sound_play |
| 13:00 |
paramat |
maybe you can in 'function default.node_sound_defaults(table)' > 'table.place = table.place or {name = "default_place_node_hard", gain = 1.0}' |
| 13:00 |
paramat |
dunno |
| 13:02 |
|
WhoAreYou joined #minetest-hub |
| 13:10 |
* twoelk |
imagines walking past a construction site with many players placing blocks at the same time |
| 13:17 |
|
lisac joined #minetest-hub |
| 13:21 |
VanessaE |
sofar: 2017-05-25 15:20:56: ERROR[Main]: ServerError: AsyncErr: ServerThread::run Lua: Runtime error from mod 'inspector' in callback on_chat_message(): ...minetest/worlds/Basic_World/worldmods/inspector/init.lua:28: attempt to perform arithmetic on field 'y' (a nil value) |
| 13:22 |
VanessaE |
(he was near Basic's spawn at the time, so Y shouldn't have been out of range) |
| 13:23 |
VanessaE |
"[05-25 09:21] <CWz> /inspect crashed" |
| 13:33 |
paramat |
mod issue? |
| 13:33 |
VanessaE |
idk. |
| 13:33 |
VanessaE |
it's one of sofar's |
| 13:34 |
|
sniper570 joined #minetest-hub |
| 13:37 |
* Wayward_One |
peeks in |
| 13:39 |
CWz |
eek that stone cold stare |
| 13:40 |
|
DS-minetest joined #minetest-hub |
| 13:41 |
|
octacian joined #minetest-hub |
| 13:42 |
Wayward_One |
lol |
| 13:42 |
Wayward_One |
hi all :) |
| 13:42 |
VanessaE |
hi |
| 13:42 |
DS-minetest |
hi |
| 13:43 |
* benrob0329 |
drops a pack of bagels on the table |
| 13:43 |
* VanessaE |
slides a toaster next to the bag, and puts out a bowl of cream cheese |
| 13:43 |
VanessaE |
(anyone got some lox?)_ |
| 13:44 |
* benrob0329 |
pulls turkey and cheese out of the fridge |
| 13:45 |
* DS-minetest |
gets some water and a fish from a river nearby |
| 13:46 |
benrob0329 |
If we had a convention, the food would be...interesting |
| 14:08 |
|
cx384 joined #minetest-hub |
| 14:08 |
benrob0329 |
https://youtu.be/HfeervqhY9Y |
| 14:09 |
DS-minetest |
Jeija is still the best cook of the minetest community https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=znRX_VLuUHg |
| 14:10 |
* paramat |
pipes in some liquid oxygen |
| 14:27 |
|
sniper338 joined #minetest-hub |
| 14:28 |
Fixer |
GTA SA is Legendary |
| 14:28 |
Fixer |
can confirm |
| 14:29 |
Fixer |
GTA SA MP is even more legendary |
| 14:31 |
nerzhul |
+1 |
| 14:32 |
Fixer |
i had so much fun on SAMP |
| 14:34 |
Fixer |
chaos, police vs gungs vs all, plains vs plains vs plaines, suicide bombers |
| 14:34 |
Fixer |
tank battles, so epic |
| 14:35 |
Fixer |
car vs car full of gang members including on the roof |
| 14:35 |
Fixer |
trully epic multiplayer |
| 14:36 |
Fixer |
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VbUMVq4pY94 |
| 14:41 |
benrob0329 |
Top comment is awesome. |
| 14:44 |
Fixer |
i rided the train |
| 14:45 |
Fixer |
and followed it as well |
| 14:45 |
|
sniper338 joined #minetest-hub |
| 14:46 |
|
sniper338 joined #minetest-hub |
| 14:46 |
benrob0329 |
Load it uo into gmod and ragdoll rope to it |
| 14:52 |
Fixer |
servers: 45885 players |
| 15:06 |
red-001 |
sure |
| 15:20 |
|
DS-minetest joined #minetest-hub |
| 15:28 |
|
Fixer joined #minetest-hub |
| 15:40 |
|
cx384 joined #minetest-hub |
| 15:41 |
|
cx384 joined #minetest-hub |
| 16:06 |
|
Raven262 joined #minetest-hub |
| 16:13 |
Fixer |
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2uhF_4Yz5o ridiculous |
| 16:17 |
cx384 |
lol |
| 16:31 |
Fixer |
one more and I will stop https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OuvUgaLxemg |
| 16:33 |
Calinou |
<Fixer> GTA SA MP is even more legendary |
| 16:33 |
Calinou |
I played a bit of Multi Theft Auto |
| 16:34 |
Calinou |
unfortunately, most players are kids and the game is a mess |
| 16:34 |
Calinou |
GTA Online (ie. the thing you find in GTA V) is slightly better in that regard, but people are still kids on it |
| 16:34 |
Fixer |
had better experience, also, you can troll kids in various ways |
| 16:35 |
Fixer |
My Antiaircraft Troll near Hydras was epic |
| 16:36 |
Fixer |
PartyServer some years ago |
| 16:38 |
Fixer |
AA also had negative side effect of rockets blowing up near me |
| 16:38 |
Fixer |
randomly |
| 16:38 |
Fixer |
had a lot of fun on that server |
| 16:38 |
Fixer |
too bad it died down |
| 16:43 |
ircSparky |
Yea I've been downloading GTAV for a few days now |
| 16:43 |
ircSparky |
12.75/68 GB |
| 16:43 |
ircSparky |
can someone give me faster internet? :P |
| 16:46 |
Fixer |
no |
| 16:46 |
Calinou |
ircSparky: I had it but no longer have it, since it does not run in WINE currently |
| 16:47 |
Fixer |
install size is insane |
| 16:47 |
|
paramat joined #minetest-hub |
| 16:47 |
Fixer |
GTA SA installed is 4.75GB |
| 16:48 |
Shara |
Hello all |
| 16:49 |
garywhite |
hi Shara |
| 16:50 |
ircSparky |
man, thats a pretty steep difference |
| 16:50 |
Fixer |
ircSparky: yep |
| 16:50 |
Fixer |
ircSparky: now install like 10 games of such size... |
| 16:51 |
Fixer |
what is good about windows is backw compatibility, I can literally run game from 199X without any problems, including 3D ones |
| 16:52 |
Fixer |
some games like RTCW needed some patches for new windowses |
| 16:53 |
benrob0329 |
And I can use a serial terminal from 1972 |
| 16:53 |
benrob0329 |
what's your point? |
| 17:00 |
Fixer |
backward compatibility |
| 17:00 |
benrob0329 |
Like how windows 10 broke most apps? |
| 17:01 |
Fixer |
not that crap |
| 17:01 |
nerzhul |
i can run a FreeBSD 4.1 program on FreeBSD 11 |
| 17:01 |
nerzhul |
it was release in 2000 :p |
| 17:02 |
benrob0329 |
I should try to compile the original vi from source :PP |
| 17:02 |
nerzhul |
benrob0329, easy, it's included in freebsd base haha |
| 17:02 |
benrob0329 |
The bsd rewrite it |
| 17:02 |
nerzhul |
benrob0329, => https://github.com/qrush/unix |
| 17:02 |
benrob0329 |
I'm talking the unmodified dource |
| 17:02 |
nerzhul |
just compile that |
| 17:02 |
benrob0329 |
*source |
| 17:02 |
Calinou |
Fixer: someone told me the original UT2004 Linux binaries still work |
| 17:02 |
Calinou |
I never tried; here I just run the game in WINE |
| 17:03 |
Fixer |
UT2004 is great game btw, have it for win |
| 17:03 |
Calinou |
anyway, one more reason for people to publish source code :P |
| 17:03 |
nerzhul |
they publish source code, not graphics, most of the time |
| 17:03 |
Calinou |
this is enough to make it work on modern systems and fix bugs and security issues |
| 17:03 |
Calinou |
you just have to buy/download the original data somewhere :P |
| 17:03 |
Calinou |
doesn't have to be legit, too :P |
| 17:04 |
benrob0329 |
nerzhul: http://ex-vi.sourceforge.net/ |
| 17:07 |
Fixer |
Calinou: say big thanks for IdSoftware, for opening a lot of stuff |
| 17:08 |
benrob0329 |
Is the origanal doom open source? |
| 17:09 |
Fixer |
they open sources some engines, that gave us things like ioquake, etc, Calinou knows better |
| 17:09 |
Fixer |
sourced* |
| 17:09 |
Fixer |
need to slow down my typing - making lots of errors |
| 17:13 |
Calinou |
Fixer: yeah but other companies didn't follow :( |
| 17:13 |
Calinou |
benrob0329: yep |
| 17:13 |
Calinou |
https://doomwiki.org/wiki/Doom_source_code |
| 17:13 |
Calinou |
initially non-commercial only, then GPL |
| 17:14 |
Calinou |
tons of source ports, https://doomwiki.org/wiki/Source_port |
| 17:14 |
Calinou |
only 5-6 are really worth a look right now though |
| 17:15 |
benrob0329 |
Most source mods I've seen are wi dows only |
| 17:15 |
Calinou |
no, they almost all work on Linux |
| 17:16 |
Calinou |
I can run Zandronum, GZDoom (GPL since last month!), Doomsday Engine, PrBoom+, Chocolate Doom… on Linux |
| 17:16 |
Calinou |
on an unrelated note, I compiled eduke32 on Linux and it works |
| 17:16 |
Calinou |
music works via a small tweak too |
| 17:17 |
Calinou |
the game technically isn't open source (some portions don't allow commercial use) but source is available |
| 17:17 |
Calinou |
https://lut.im/59xFCQLGrd/1eCL7qPkEolhlp6t.png |
| 17:17 |
Calinou |
(Duke Nukem 3D) |
| 17:20 |
|
CWz_ joined #minetest-hub |
| 17:21 |
Calinou |
the trend of open sourcing engines unfortunately died because the number of proprietary third-party dependencies increased a lot in the last 15 years |
| 17:21 |
Calinou |
and because there's common thinking (not necessarily false) that it makes "piracy" easier |
| 17:21 |
CWz_ |
today i learnt my lesson |
| 17:21 |
Calinou |
(any game with its engine released is basically DRM-free, you can remove all checks) |
| 17:21 |
CWz_ |
never open a 25mb txt file with abiward |
| 17:21 |
Fixer |
rabiward |
| 17:22 |
Fixer |
Calinou: pfff, cracked exe all the way |
| 17:22 |
Fixer |
Calinou: if it is great game with open sourced engine, its legacy will live on for much longer |
| 17:22 |
Calinou |
yes |
| 17:22 |
Calinou |
good luck telling that to gamedevs who want to sell their latest games and nothing else |
| 17:23 |
Calinou |
very few game devs treat their old games with respect; even I is not ideal in this |
| 17:23 |
Calinou |
id Software* |
| 17:23 |
Calinou |
lol, "even I is"… |
| 17:23 |
Calinou |
nice typo |
| 17:23 |
Fixer |
sometimes it is goes in reverse, you have assets, and you do open source engine and you then do open sourced assets - OpenTTD |
| 17:23 |
Fixer |
and OTTD is awesome |
| 17:23 |
Calinou |
reimplementations are possible but they take years to make |
| 17:23 |
Calinou |
and to make them work well |
| 17:23 |
Fixer |
I hope OpenXCOM will also get open source assets in future, but not sure if there are any plans |
| 17:24 |
Fixer |
it is another great thrilling game |
| 17:54 |
Calinou |
most reimplementations do not even *plan* having open source asset replacements |
| 17:54 |
Calinou |
artists are scarce, even scarcer than 10 years ago because doing art is basically not a hobby for anyone anymore |
| 17:55 |
Calinou |
requesting free artists is poorly regarded now |
| 17:55 |
Calinou |
artists are scared of free culture licenses, too |
| 18:09 |
paramat |
a large majority of artists do it as a hobby, it's very difficult to make a living from it |
| 18:16 |
nerzhul |
https://www.sparkfun.com/news/2394?utm_content=54875643&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter |
| 18:16 |
Calinou |
paramat: hmm… I'm not convinced |
| 18:16 |
Calinou |
the good artists all are semi-professionals at least |
| 18:16 |
Calinou |
the shit ones, obviously they're hobbyists, they can't be anything better :) |
| 18:16 |
Calinou |
(not that Minetest has very good artists, by the way) |
| 18:16 |
Calinou |
(some are decent, but none are great) |
| 18:17 |
Shara |
Every project I was involved with... artists are always the hardest thing to find |
| 18:17 |
Calinou |
this ^ |
| 18:18 |
Shara |
You can find okay people for most other roles if you work hard enough, but artists.... |
| 18:21 |
twoelk |
good art is often quite personal. you don't want to give it away for free and have everybody mess about with it, maybe reversing the exact effect you had carefully designed |
| 18:22 |
Shara |
twoelk: exactly |
| 18:22 |
Fixer |
i'm glad OpenTTD worked out, totally open source continuation of legend |
| 18:22 |
Shara |
I used to draw, and though I was certainly far from among the best, even I didn't like to give drawings away |
| 18:24 |
nerzhul |
many guys are doing things as artists, but many of them work as artist, AAA games needs many of them |
| 18:26 |
red-001 |
oh lol our friends site has gotten too big to screenshot |
| 18:27 |
red-001 |
(he added more stuff to it) |
| 18:27 |
Fixer |
Calinou: btw, about texture filtering |
| 18:27 |
Fixer |
# When using bilinear/trilinear/anisotropic filters, low-resolution textures |
| 18:27 |
Fixer |
# can be blurred, so automatically upscale them with nearest-neighbor |
| 18:27 |
Fixer |
# interpolation to preserve crisp pixels. |
| 18:28 |
Fixer |
last time I enabled trilinear it was blurry as hell, now where is crisp pixels automatic upscale thing? since it is automatic... where is it? |
| 18:35 |
Krock |
# texture_min_size = 64 |
| 18:36 |
Fixer |
ok, apparently it works but has small effect on crispiness, you need something like texture_min_size = 256... |
| 18:39 |
Fixer |
trilinear + mipmaps = myopia |
| 18:42 |
red-001 |
friend* |
| 18:42 |
red-001 |
friend's* |
| 18:43 |
|
RobbieF left #minetest-hub |
| 18:53 |
Calinou |
Shara: good sound designers are also ridiculously hard to find |
| 18:53 |
Calinou |
that job is true black magic |
| 18:53 |
Calinou |
not just musicians, but people who make sounds from scratch |
| 18:53 |
Calinou |
guns, powerups, etc |
| 18:53 |
Shara |
Calinou: Yes, I know. |
| 18:54 |
Shara |
I've actually considered trying that myself, since I find the idea quite interesting, but don't currently have the equipment for it. |
| 18:55 |
Calinou |
you need hardware, software, and tons of theory |
| 18:57 |
Calinou |
- What do you call a security gaurd at Samsung stores? |
| 18:57 |
Calinou |
- Guardians of the galaxy. |
| 18:57 |
Calinou |
heard this today :D |
| 18:57 |
Calinou |
guard* |
| 19:00 |
red-001 |
I will take note when Guardians of the galaxy 7 come out |
| 19:03 |
Shara |
Calinou: I've played around with sound editing quite a lot previously, so it's mostly the hardware (and then of course the test of whether I'd actually have any skill :P) |
| 19:05 |
Krock |
Calinou, successfully spread this one. :D |
| 19:05 |
paramat |
professional does not equal 'good artist'. many excellent artists cannot make a living from it because that is what the world is like, art is often highly uncommercial |
| 19:05 |
Calinou |
most professionals are decent artists |
| 19:05 |
Calinou |
some excellent artists are not pros, yes |
| 19:06 |
Calinou |
this is by far an exception, not a rule |
| 19:06 |
Calinou |
some artwork released for free is of very high quality and stands out from the crowd |
| 19:06 |
Calinou |
(example: Misa's Minecraft texture pack) |
| 19:07 |
Shara |
Ability to make money as an artist depends on flexibility as well as skill alone. |
| 19:07 |
Shara |
I've known at least oen extremely good artist who was so narrow in his focus that he wouldn't try anything else :( |
| 19:07 |
Shara |
one* |
| 19:07 |
Shara |
So he'll probably never make any money |
| 19:10 |
paramat |
depends what you mean by 'good artist', i would not call pop music good art, but it is highly commercial and makes lots of money. 'true art' that is completely true to an artist's uncompromising uncommercial vision is rarely able to make money, and many artists would not want money involved to potentially spoil it through commercial pressure |
| 19:10 |
Fixer |
Calinou: eh, I've helplessly tried to locate misa for beta 1.7.3 without luck :( |
| 19:10 |
Calinou |
Fixer: Misa herself is 404 anyway |
| 19:10 |
Calinou |
apparently not dead, though |
| 19:11 |
Calinou |
(since 2013) |
| 19:11 |
Fixer |
there were newer packs I had |
| 19:11 |
Calinou |
the pack itself is CC BY-NC 3.0, with some fully-proprietary exceptions for eg. random mobs and alternate textures |
| 19:11 |
Calinou |
I got permission from her to port it to Minetest back in 2011-09 |
| 19:11 |
paramat |
i have had very many friends who are talented musicians, none can make a living from it |
| 19:11 |
Calinou |
making living from a music is impossible now anyway |
| 19:11 |
paramat |
it usually costs them time and money |
| 19:12 |
Calinou |
yes |
| 19:12 |
Fixer |
paramat: market does not want talent, it needs stuff to sell to "sheeple" with poor taste |
| 19:13 |
paramat |
not impossible, anyone can now self distribute and sell through the internet, much better than the old days of corrupt record companies and contracts |
| 19:13 |
Fixer |
exception is underground, since it was never about sales imho but about experimenting |
| 19:13 |
paramat |
exactly |
| 19:15 |
paramat |
and none of my friends were able to make a living from music before the internet either |
| 19:18 |
twoelk |
I know a lot of people who earn an extra dime with music but only one actually is capable of feeding his family |
| 19:19 |
twoelk |
he does have an extra non musician job in the industry though ;-P |
| 19:22 |
Calinou |
paramat: but who will buy enough music from your Bandcamp to make a living out of it? |
| 19:23 |
Fixer |
Calinou: market is oversaturated |
| 19:23 |
Calinou |
this ^ |
| 19:23 |
Fixer |
and people expect it to cost like 1usd at most |
| 19:23 |
Fixer |
look appshitstores |
| 19:23 |
Fixer |
it is mess |
| 19:24 |
Fixer |
we ended up in sea of shit with island of good stuff |
| 19:24 |
twoelk |
live performance is the way most really make mony |
| 19:24 |
Fixer |
for windows it is sysinternals, nirsoft, irfanview, vlc, foobar, etc as examples |
| 19:24 |
Shara |
No one wants to pay for art. Many many people want to produce stuff-they-call-art. Result is what we now have... |
| 19:24 |
paramat |
Calinou i agree, but it was also near-impossible before the internet |
| 19:25 |
Fixer |
also depends on where market is located, its size, etc |
| 19:26 |
Calinou |
Shara: "no one wants to pay for art" is a tad wrong, I find |
| 19:26 |
Fixer |
who needs brilliant stuff like Ray Coniff today? nah, lets produce FuckMeFuckFuckFuck me with big boobs |
| 19:26 |
Calinou |
plenty of artist Patreons get a lot of money |
| 19:26 |
Fixer |
singing boobs* |
| 19:26 |
Calinou |
it is not entirely wrong; I never pay for culture of any kind, except once last year for a free culture artists |
| 19:26 |
paramat |
lol |
| 19:26 |
Calinou |
I also used to never pay for software, but I bought some games last year and this year on Steam still |
| 19:26 |
Calinou |
(unfortunate…) |
| 19:27 |
Fixer |
East Europe never was too |
| 19:27 |
Fixer |
i have some geniunly looking stuff, but I'm still not sure if this for real, or nice counterfeat :} |
| 19:28 |
Calinou |
yeah, Russian/Ukraine are notorious for acquiring everything illegally :P |
| 19:28 |
Fixer |
China |
| 19:28 |
Fixer |
even russia is overshadowed by China, by a huge margin |
| 19:29 |
Fixer |
Calinou: there were not much legal places to buy after all |
| 19:29 |
Shara |
Calinou: It's about the general viewpoint. It doesn't mean no one will pay, but it does mean not enough will. |
| 19:29 |
twoelk |
chinese just have a different concept of copyright :-P |
| 19:29 |
Fixer |
Calinou: where do you think I got my CD of Half-Life 1? |
| 19:29 |
Calinou |
I have no ethical objections to "pirating" things personally |
| 19:29 |
Calinou |
I don't see it as something morally wrong; in fact, it even may be the right thing to do in some cases |
| 19:29 |
Calinou |
("cooperation is more important than copyright", Richard Stallman once said) |
| 19:30 |
Fixer |
i bought it in store, disc had fancy stickers to show it is "genuine", but everyone knows it was all pirated and sold en mass |
| 19:30 |
Calinou |
(Richard Stallman isn't just a man who tells you to say "GNU/Linux" instead of "Linux"; he also advocates for copyright reduction, an activity far less known than "free software" promotion itself) |
| 19:30 |
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| 19:30 |
Calinou |
lots of people will surely disagree with me, or even call me an evil person, but that's how I see it |
| 19:31 |
Fixer |
Calinou: also, users-pirates-HARHAR have big advantage in comparison to legal guys |
| 19:31 |
Fixer |
Calinou: not just price |
| 19:31 |
Fixer |
Calinou: you have no ads, can convert, copy, do whatever you like with it |
| 19:32 |
Fixer |
or books |
| 19:32 |
Fixer |
immense options here |
| 19:32 |
Fixer |
pdfs |
| 19:32 |
Calinou |
"arrr! I pirate the things and surf the Web!" |
| 19:32 |
Fixer |
there are million leaked scientific articles in wild now |
| 19:32 |
Calinou |
also, yes; unlegit media is DRM-free by definition |
| 19:32 |
Fixer |
btw |
| 19:33 |
Fixer |
people expect: i bought stuff - i do whatever I want with it, but then assholes come in and say you can't cut ads, rewind, convert etc, and that part is pissing off |
| 19:33 |
Fixer |
same with OS |
| 19:33 |
Calinou |
yes, if more things were DRM-free I would be more inclined to buy them |
| 19:33 |
Calinou |
with games though, there is no real alternative |
| 19:34 |
Calinou |
multiplayer almost always requires you to buy a legitimate copy |
| 19:34 |
twoelk |
one might not mind someone using one's art, but if some company uses it to advertise something one does not stand for - just imagine your work of art for ever associated with something you consider wrong or bad - shudder |
| 19:34 |
Calinou |
and many games are Steam-only now |
| 19:34 |
Fixer |
Calinou: not always, there are hacked servers :} |
| 19:34 |
Calinou |
twoelk: you can claim moral rights violation, even with a free culture work |
| 19:34 |
Calinou |
if someone uses your CC BY-licensed music in a beheading video, you can claim moral rights for this, likely |
| 19:34 |
Calinou |
you cannot surrender your moral rights and they are perpetual |
| 19:34 |
Calinou |
(at least in France) |
| 19:34 |
twoelk |
good luck trying that Calinou |
| 19:35 |
Calinou |
it still is technically possible |
| 19:35 |
Fixer |
Calinou: also, required connection to internet also pisses a lot of people, reasonably |
| 19:35 |
Calinou |
this would likely happen with a non-free work anyway; the people making such videos don't care about copyright already |
| 19:35 |
Fixer |
not sure about kiddies, but I expect stuff to work out of network, anywhere where I go |
| 19:36 |
Fixer |
I simply copy $INSTALLDIR of the game to new location and play |
| 19:37 |
Fixer |
a lot of games simply works even without registry info, which is excellent |
| 19:37 |
Fixer |
also, there is a lot of abandonware, that should be clearly free to redistr |
| 19:37 |
Calinou |
copyright lasts far too long right now |
| 19:37 |
Fixer |
yep |
| 19:38 |
Fixer |
death + 80 years iirc |
| 19:38 |
Calinou |
Julia Reda was on the right track, but she lost traction and what she proposed (life + 50 years) was still far too long |
| 19:38 |
Calinou |
right now it is life + 70 years |
| 19:38 |
Calinou |
or life + 100 years in France if you "died for France" |
| 19:38 |
Calinou |
this is why "le Petit Prince" (a famous novel) did not fall into public domain in 2015 |
| 19:38 |
red-001 |
Calinou, thats a strange law |
| 19:38 |
Calinou |
because its author, Antoine de Saint-Exupéry, fought in WWII |
| 19:38 |
Calinou |
so he gets 100 years of copyright after death and not 70 years |
| 19:39 |
Fixer |
nobody cares though, that is the reason why the law is too strict, it does not work, since everyone can be sued |
| 19:39 |
Fixer |
it must be relaxed, it is out of reality |
| 19:39 |
Calinou |
I don't think I'll see copyright reduction in my life anyway |
| 19:40 |
Calinou |
so far, copyright has only been extended |
| 19:40 |
Fixer |
yeah |
| 19:40 |
nerzhul |
Rights are 70 years in france Calinou |
| 19:40 |
Calinou |
if you make a work while you are 20 years old, you live until you're 90, you get 140 years of copyright usually |
| 19:40 |
Calinou |
140 fucking years |
| 19:40 |
Fixer |
but, it may be realised it swinged into one side too much |
| 19:40 |
Fixer |
eventually |
| 19:40 |
nerzhul |
yeah your child get money for your work, it's quite sutpid |
| 19:40 |
Calinou |
with today's politicians, probably not |
| 19:41 |
Calinou |
nerzhul: your grand-grand-children too probablyt |
| 19:41 |
Calinou |
sometimes grand-grand-grand-children |
| 19:42 |
twoelk |
in the old days artists learned by copying the masters - they might go to jail if they tried to start a career that way today |
| 19:42 |
Calinou |
"Good artists copy, great artists steal" —Picasso |
| 19:45 |
Fixer |
ah |
| 19:45 |
Fixer |
ah |
| 19:46 |
paramat |
Shara is your github avatar one of your drawings? |
| 19:57 |
Shara |
paramat: yes |
| 19:57 |
Shara |
a very, very old one |
| 19:58 |
paramat |
ahh i wondered, it is an intense eye, nice |
| 19:59 |
Shara |
Bad quality scan sadly, and the original drawing was quite badly damaged since |
| 20:01 |
benrob0329 |
I would pay for music etc if more of it were under free licenses |
| 20:01 |
Calinou |
this ^ |
| 20:01 |
Calinou |
crowdfunding is also a big problem |
| 20:01 |
Calinou |
people back things (and you are expected to, too) that are everything but common goods |
| 20:01 |
benrob0329 |
Like, I'm planning on buying all of Incompetech's (Kevin M |
| 20:01 |
Calinou |
profits are private, and the license is restrictive |
| 20:02 |
Calinou |
(no, I am not communist) |
| 20:02 |
benrob0329 |
) music |
| 20:02 |
benrob0329 |
No, clearly not |
| 20:03 |
benrob0329 |
I'm fine with people making money |
| 20:03 |
benrob0329 |
Its somewhat necessary |
| 20:03 |
benrob0329 |
But once I buy it, its mine |
| 20:03 |
Fixer |
yeah |
| 20:04 |
benrob0329 |
I'm willing to pay a bit more for it, but I don't want to worry about drm, videos, multiple computers etc |
| 20:04 |
Fixer |
read that story about american farmers buying software from ukraine/poland to unlock JonhDeer bullshit |
| 20:05 |
Fixer |
some companies went on bad trip to lets service those mfer-consumers via us only and remove all options, not gonna happen |
| 20:06 |
Fixer |
now you have hackers selling for cheap to unlock your DRM, what ya gonna do now with your service? It is indication of different problem, that business itself is dying down, market oversaturation, big competition, less sales, so those fuckers want to lock in, but consumers are very opposed to this and will circumvent no matter what |
| 20:07 |
Fixer |
this will end up with ruined reputation |
| 20:07 |
Fixer |
toxicity etc |
| 20:08 |
Fixer |
some companies instead of selling parts for repair trying to rip off via selling service, this gives very bad reputation for such businesses in long run |
| 20:08 |
Fixer |
and USA seems ahead in this kind of bullshit |
| 20:09 |
Fixer |
with trump corps are even more aggresive |
| 20:09 |
Fixer |
shitty practices in IT that became the norm, to sell privacy of other people |
| 20:14 |
benrob0329 |
We just need to convince trump the OS is the future |
| 20:14 |
benrob0329 |
*that OS |
| 20:17 |
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| 20:26 |
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octacian__ joined #minetest-hub |
| 20:51 |
rubenwardy |
he would probably end up banning it |
| 20:51 |
rubenwardy |
cause communism |
| 20:51 |
garywhite |
OS? |
| 20:51 |
rubenwardy |
open source, I'm guessing |
| 20:52 |
garywhite |
"Open source is hurting America's economy, & I don't like that, cause then I lose money on my hotels." |
| 20:52 |
garywhite |
#FakeTrump |
| 21:02 |
Calinou |
there is a free game on the Humble Store right now, it works in WINE according to the AppDB (gold rating) |
| 21:03 |
Calinou |
https://lut.im/mk7avIpaRP/AHFAMt7UTYpAYlth.png |
| 21:03 |
Calinou |
open source will advance! |
| 21:04 |
Calinou |
https://www.humblebundle.com/store/rising-storm-game-of-the-year-edition |
| 21:08 |
nerzhul |
lol 14257 install minetest by searching it on play store and... 14 by google |
| 21:08 |
nerzhul |
strange stat |
| 21:11 |
nerzhul |
wow there is a very common crash on android |
| 21:12 |
nerzhul |
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=net.minetest.minetest |
| 21:12 |
nerzhul |
i changed my name on play store :p |
| 21:12 |
nerzhul |
generic name + pseudo maybe that can help |
| 21:12 |
nerzhul |
oops wrong chan |
| 21:17 |
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RobbieF left #minetest-hub |
| 21:19 |
garywhite |
CNET download.com reports 27 downloads of MT since 1 May |
| 21:19 |
Fixer |
lol |
| 21:20 |
garywhite |
or 132 downloads in the last 3 months |
| 21:22 |
nerzhul |
ridiculous |
| 21:22 |
nerzhul |
i don't know if it's easy to distribute it on steam |
| 21:22 |
nerzhul |
but i think if we do that we should wait for 0.5 :p no time for this now |
| 21:25 |
garywhite |
Also, you have to have someone who's paid $100 for Greenlight or whatever |
| 21:26 |
garywhite |
So unless someone wants to sink $100 into this game, I don't think we can put it on Steam |
| 21:26 |
Shara |
That's not really a big barrier really |
| 21:26 |
rubenwardy |
or 100 giving $1 |
| 21:27 |
Shara |
Just split it between 5 to 10 people and it's sort of nothing |
| 21:27 |
nerzhul |
maybe i should ask for android thiefts xD |
| 21:27 |
garywhite |
Correction, they changed it altogether... |
| 21:27 |
nerzhul |
i will have 100$ by bounty source for some MT dev, i can use some for that if we want to distribute on it |
| 21:28 |
nerzhul |
but before just change those texture to make MT have a better identity, less mtgame genericity |
| 21:28 |
garywhite |
We gotta do it quick cause they're replacing greenlight with another method that's gonna (pardon my French) screw everyone over |
| 21:28 |
Calinou |
it would be possible to put Minetest on Steam |
| 21:28 |
Calinou |
but we won't be ready before Greenlight closes |
| 21:28 |
Calinou |
we need a much better UI, better performancez |
| 21:28 |
Calinou |
more content in the default game: (read: mobs) |
| 21:29 |
Shara |
Or just... other games |
| 21:29 |
Calinou |
multiple low-quality subgames aren't going to help anyone |
| 21:29 |
Calinou |
quality over quantity, you know |
| 21:29 |
rubenwardy |
agreed |
| 21:30 |
Shara |
I'm not talking about pure quantity |
| 21:30 |
Shara |
I just find MTG messy really, and too without focus |
| 21:30 |
Shara |
It doesn't seem to know what it wants to be |
| 21:30 |
Shara |
Probably because it's trying to be everything at once |
| 21:30 |
Calinou |
minetest_game is getting better but still needs a lot of things |
| 21:30 |
Calinou |
you could argue the same about Minecraft |
| 21:30 |
Calinou |
it is very sandboxy, no real goal, a shitty end |
| 21:31 |
Shara |
Never played it and don't really want to |
| 21:31 |
Calinou |
making your game highly targeted at something might not be a good idea, too |
| 21:31 |
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| 21:31 |
Calinou |
remember that it's also a multiplayer game |
| 21:31 |
Calinou |
(mainly a multiplayer game, even…) |
| 21:31 |
Shara |
Some devs would disagree with you there it seems :) |
| 21:32 |
Shara |
Bt it's why I'm not keen on doing anymore MTG PRs. |
| 21:32 |
Shara |
But* |
| 21:32 |
Calinou |
I don't want Minetest Game to become a RPG or an adventure game really |
| 21:32 |
Calinou |
unless that's disableable in some way |
| 21:33 |
Shara |
That's not what I would want either |
| 21:33 |
Shara |
But almost any content you add to make it feel like a complete game, would make it less fit for other types of play |
| 21:34 |
red-001 |
+1 to spending some of the money from bountysource on getting minetest on steam greenlight |
| 21:34 |
red-001 |
but then greenlight is being removed afaik |
| 21:34 |
Calinou |
it is |
| 21:34 |
Shara |
So if we just have one official game, it feels like it needs a lot more content, but also a better way to have that content as options. |
| 21:34 |
Calinou |
more content yeah, definitely |
| 21:35 |
Calinou |
and more gameplay elements, not just dozens of random useless blocks |
| 21:35 |
Shara |
So that you can build whatever kind of game you want from it |
| 21:35 |
Shara |
just by turning on off the right features you need |
| 21:35 |
Shara |
on/off* |
| 21:35 |
garywhite |
To indicate how much harder it will be, please read http://steamcommunity.com/games/593110/announcements/detail/558846854614253751 |
| 21:35 |
rubenwardy |
I don't think they should be options |
| 21:36 |
rubenwardy |
I think they should be separate mods which you enable/disable/remove instead |
| 21:36 |
rubenwardy |
as in, |
| 21:36 |
rubenwardy |
still in MTG, just not all in defualt |
| 21:36 |
Shara |
rubenwardy: sure, but that is options |
| 21:36 |
rubenwardy |
oh yeah, I read settings |
| 21:36 |
Shara |
I don't really mind so much about how it's implemented, just so long as it's easy to control |
| 21:37 |
Shara |
But the advanatge of settings is updating is easier |
| 21:37 |
Shara |
I don't want to need to delete the mobs folder each time I update, if I don't want mobs, for examples |
| 21:38 |
red-001 |
wouldn't allowing end-users to disable mods includes with the game fix that? |
| 21:38 |
red-001 |
included* |
| 21:39 |
red-001 |
nvm it seems thats whats suggested |
| 21:39 |
Shara |
Anythign at all that's preserved between updates is fine |
| 21:39 |
Shara |
ANything* |
| 21:41 |
paramat |
i feel the mods within MTGame should be disableable |
| 21:42 |
Shara |
It would be good |
| 21:43 |
garywhite |
Except default, that's kind of important for everything |
| 21:43 |
red-001 |
maybe add a way for subgames to mark certain mods as "core" |
| 21:44 |
red-001 |
meaning the player isn't able to disable them via the menu |
| 21:45 |
Shara |
not trusting players to not hopelessly break things? :) |
| 21:47 |
nerzhul |
minetest_game should increase content quality, and real mobs is one of our target for the next release (0.5 i mean) the breakage on protocol will permit to have real mobs, not hacky physic mobs :p mobs, skills/spells is required, more intelligent animations too... curent model is too low level |
| 21:48 |
red-001 |
oh neat someone is going to finnaly work on decent mobs with a c++ based ai? |
| 21:48 |
nerzhul |
minetest.register_mob('default:bee', flying=true, speed=100, spells=['default:attack', 'default:fireball']) |
| 21:48 |
nerzhul |
:) |
| 21:49 |
nerzhul |
it's what i mean, declare your mobs, have some interesting callbacks , outside of LuaEntitySAO |
| 21:49 |
nerzhul |
i think UnitSAO should have a new child, NPCSAO |
| 21:49 |
nerzhul |
which is more intelligent than too many lua extruded entities |
| 21:49 |
nerzhul |
with many core features |
| 21:50 |
red-001 |
sounds like a decent idea |
| 21:50 |
nerzhul |
engine and game should work together we are not unity or godot, but a game with mods |
| 21:50 |
nerzhul |
and NPCSAO would have some common parts with player, maybe UnitSAO will be more intelligent and permit to enhance a little bit LuaEntitySAO by side effet :p |
| 21:51 |
nerzhul |
effect* |
| 21:51 |
nerzhul |
imagine just a thing, npc:cast_spell('default:fireball', {x, y, z}) |
| 21:51 |
nerzhul |
npc:move_to({x,y,z}, speed) |
| 21:51 |
nerzhul |
npc:play_animation('default:jump') |
| 21:51 |
nerzhul |
could be better :D |
| 21:53 |
red-001 |
what about npc:set_state_trigger("damage",20,"state_flee") ? |
| 21:53 |
nerzhul |
what is the purpose of this ? |
| 21:54 |
red-001 |
allow c++ to trigger certain events without calling lua |
| 21:54 |
garywhite |
Also, adding MT Android version to Amazon Appstore will definitely boost the number of users |
| 21:54 |
nerzhul |
yeah it's the goal, a high level lua api |
| 21:54 |
nerzhul |
we offer events, not modders to code the whole physic... |
| 21:54 |
red-001 |
oh ok |
| 21:55 |
nerzhul |
but it's ideas, if it motivates people to work on a new NPC entity, more intelligent for NPC that would be great :) |
| 21:56 |
nerzhul |
also at a point i think i should backport my AppleTree modification to minetest permitting to store areas into core engine, permitting to have local PVP for non PVP servers and local passive zones for PVP servers |
| 21:56 |
nerzhul |
but i don't know if it's interesting for everybody, i know many decent servers has areas |
| 21:57 |
red-001 |
wait builtin grief protection??!! |
| 21:57 |
* red-001 |
awaits PR |
| 21:58 |
nerzhul |
i have it on my own server |
| 21:58 |
nerzhul |
but i'm not using area store |
| 21:58 |
nerzhul |
the portage is a little bit complicated as is i think |
| 21:59 |
nerzhul |
but, if a feature is everywhere, it mean it's a common feature that make sense to port it, and offer it in a disabled way for modders no ? |
| 21:59 |
red-001 |
yeah protection needs to be part of core |
| 21:59 |
nerzhul |
on AppleTree all areas are stored into database (owners too) with map, somes are flagged as non PvP like spawn, you leave those areas you can attack players |
| 22:00 |
red-001 |
that will allow added client-sided prediction to it |
| 22:00 |
Shara |
Hmm, nerzhul, sounds interesting. |
| 22:00 |
nerzhul |
this part is not easy |
| 22:00 |
nerzhul |
because we cannot sent all areas to clients :p |
| 22:00 |
nerzhul |
send* |
| 22:00 |
Shara |
I sometimes wonder how many areas a server can handle |
| 22:00 |
red-001 |
send the areas with the mapblocks? |
| 22:00 |
nerzhul |
if we send them to client it permit to CSM to handle it to show them on screen and modders to customize them |
| 22:01 |
Dumbeldor |
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sYsvgZyLUjY |
| 22:01 |
nerzhul |
red-001, quite impossible, areas can cover many many mapblocks, but yes sending them when a mapblock is sent and an area is found on it can be nice, but hsould be very optimized |
| 22:02 |
Shara |
I have players moaning at me that 50 areas isn't enough for them... |
| 22:02 |
nerzhul |
lol |
| 22:02 |
nerzhul |
this limit is in your mod |
| 22:02 |
red-001 |
I meant as in re-calculate the areas the client needs to know about when sending a mapblock |
| 22:02 |
nerzhul |
yes |
| 22:02 |
Shara |
nerzhul: I know.. but FIFTY! |
| 22:02 |
Shara |
It scares me that they need this many :) |
| 22:02 |
nerzhul |
it depend on what they protect but if they play hundred hours that can be many buildings |
| 22:03 |
nerzhul |
it's why i say if we did it it should be very optimized because it can take many memory and CPU usage on calculation |
| 22:03 |
nerzhul |
my AppleTree implementation is not optimized for thousands areas |
| 22:03 |
Shara |
My creative server has over 3k areas protected... and this is after the admin team spent hours trying to combine some and remove unneeded ones |
| 22:03 |
nerzhul |
at each protected action i search first matching area which forbid |
| 22:03 |
nerzhul |
lol |
| 22:04 |
Shara |
And this server is only about a year and a half old |
| 22:04 |
red-001 |
yeah area ids tend to get pretty high |
| 22:05 |
red-001 |
on one server I play on they reached the 5000's |
| 22:05 |
nerzhul |
many ideas, many hands who wants to help us to contribute, time to make minetest great (and nuke forks :p) |
| 22:05 |
Shara |
I also get complaints there's not enough space left to build.... but I just tell them to go to space and pick an asteroid :) |
| 22:05 |
garywhite |
Shara: Maybe that's a good thing, it means that people are actually protecting their areas |
| 22:05 |
red-001 |
or just protecting random land |
| 22:06 |
Shara |
I sometimes find silly kids who protected multiple 1x1x1 areas :) |
| 22:06 |
red-001 |
lol |
| 22:07 |
Shara |
But hopefully my admins are never giving these peopole high_limit priv, so they can't make so many |
| 22:07 |
Shara |
people* |
| 22:08 |
garywhite |
Well, how many do they get by default? I have 60 with high_limit |
| 22:08 |
Shara |
I can't remember |
| 22:08 |
Shara |
It's low though |
| 22:09 |
Shara |
I only put it up to 60 for those with high limit last week |
| 22:14 |
garywhite |
Also, about the whole overhaul & putting MT to Steam & all that, if MT relies so much on multiplayer, how is the existing MT network of servers gonna be able to support a lot of additional players? |
| 22:15 |
Shara |
MT has far more servers than needed for the current amount of players |
| 22:15 |
Fixer |
who said it will be steam? that was wild suggestion out of my broken mind |
| 22:15 |
nerzhul |
garywhite, it's why i just say, way for next release |
| 22:16 |
Shara |
Not many servers are actually busy, when you look at the server list |
| 22:16 |
nerzhul |
i will take some time to rewrite entierely the network, it will break underlying protocol, but our model is not good and not resilient to DoS due to slow clients |
| 22:16 |
Fixer |
also, MTG still not ready, why 0.5? |
| 22:16 |
Fixer |
MTG must move forward massively |
| 22:16 |
nerzhul |
0.5 is not this release |
| 22:16 |
Fixer |
most of changes are in engine |
| 22:16 |
nerzhul |
we are releasing 0.4.16 last week |
| 22:16 |
nerzhul |
next* |
| 22:16 |
rubenwardy |
realistically it's not going to happen for 0.5 |
| 22:16 |
Fixer |
yes, i mean after 0.4.16 |
| 22:17 |
nerzhul |
honestly i don't know for minetest_game, but it seems the core engine has some development direction (C++11, CSM, mobs, [areas], mod channels for CSM, rewrite the network protocol) but what about mtg ? |
| 22:18 |
Fixer |
while it had much progress, it is not revolutionary |
| 22:18 |
Fixer |
only evolutional changes, very slight |
| 22:18 |
garywhite |
I'm just saying, the average for MT on Download.com is almost 3 downloads a day since January 2013 |
| 22:18 |
Fixer |
far from goals in that nores doc |
| 22:19 |
nerzhul |
download.com is not a reference for game |
| 22:19 |
garywhite |
ik, but those are the only download numbers I have |
| 22:21 |
Fixer |
garywhite: tbh I doubt anyone in their mind will download of download.com |
| 22:21 |
red-001 |
Fixer, well if we get 3 insane people a day... |
| 22:22 |
Fixer |
red-001: too thin |
| 22:22 |
red-001 |
thats over a thousand crazy people a year |
| 22:23 |
red-001 |
.. I'm not sure what point I'm trying to make |
| 22:23 |
garywhite |
Well, we want to have people playing the game right? & if we can't use major distribution channels like Steam, then we're very limited on where we can post it |
| 22:23 |
Fixer |
garywhite: cnet, download.com was NOGO sites for many years for many people |
| 22:24 |
Fixer |
excluding grandpas/mas |
| 22:25 |
nerzhul |
on playstore in 1 year we have 2k more persistant installations (not total, they are not stable) |
| 22:25 |
nerzhul |
6k persistant installations |
| 22:26 |
garywhite |
Which is why I also suggested Amazon Appstore, cause then that opens MT up to the market of Fire tablets (I had to sideload it onto mine0 |
| 22:26 |
garywhite |
)* |
| 22:26 |
Fixer |
i would worry more about actual playability of MTG |
| 22:26 |
Fixer |
you don't even have tools rendered in other people hands... |
| 22:27 |
benrob0329 |
hand's should be fully 3D imo |
| 22:27 |
nerzhul |
garywhite, there is f-Droid build |
| 22:28 |
nerzhul |
Fixer, tools are not rendered for other players ? cannot remember that :o |
| 22:28 |
garywhite |
True, but 99% of people don't know what F-Droid is |
| 22:28 |
nerzhul |
also having armor support in core engine permit to make NPC and player having real armor rendering client side, could be nice |
| 22:28 |
Fixer |
nerzhul: i mean if you use plain minetest_game, you will appear as tools-less player to others in game |
| 22:29 |
Fixer |
you literally need to use a mod for that... weildview or smth |
| 22:29 |
Calinou |
lol, Amazon Appstore |
| 22:29 |
nerzhul |
just include it lol |
| 22:30 |
nerzhul |
Amazon appstore is quite unused |
| 22:30 |
garywhite |
Not if you have a fire tablet, then it's pretty much the only source for apps |
| 22:31 |
garywhite |
They make a tablet especially for kids, & I know that can only access Amazon |
| 22:31 |
red-001 |
what about itch.io |
| 22:31 |
red-001 |
*? |
| 22:32 |
Calinou |
the ultilmate question: do we care about kids? |
| 22:32 |
Calinou |
sorry to say that, but I feel like we should earn more… higher-quality players, you know |
| 22:33 |
* red-001 |
is working on creating a page for minetest on itch.io |
| 22:33 |
nerzhul |
red-001, at least a page refering our site is the minimum |
| 22:35 |
red-001 |
https://red-001.itch.io/minetest?secret=YvQj9iKeQ2pZt1C2Z8FjO1u956M |
| 22:37 |
Fixer |
"With a 620003 block playing area" |
| 22:37 |
Fixer |
needs correction |
| 22:37 |
garywhite |
Calinou: Even then, in this day & age, more & more people are ditching PCs for phones & tablets. I think that the devs should think about looking at getting more mobile coverage in all the major Android stores |
| 22:38 |
Calinou |
garywhite: sensible people do not ditch their PCs *entirely* |
| 22:38 |
Calinou |
they can use mobile devices on a regular basis (I do!) but most of them won't abandon their PCs entirely |
| 22:38 |
Calinou |
our mobile port is shit right now, and it is unlikely to be improved; it is more likely to be entirely removed |
| 22:39 |
Fixer |
workstations/notebooks are ditched by people who are ok with viewing their facebook pages and few videos on their crappy phone |
| 22:39 |
twoelk |
people don't ditch their pc - rather their first computer is a mobile device and they never move on |
| 22:39 |
Fixer |
there is no "death of PC" hype, it lives, still used by people who need it |
| 22:40 |
Fixer |
twoelk: depends on age and other factors |
| 22:40 |
Fixer |
twoelk: android/ios is crippled OS in many regards |
| 22:40 |
garywhite |
My first computer wasn't a mobile device, & I still use my tablet more, mainly my laptop is for work |
| 22:40 |
Fixer |
for watching kittens? yep, not much more |
| 22:40 |
rubenwardy |
it's not crippled |
| 22:41 |
Fixer |
i use my tablet for reading books, watching youtube in bed, ocasionnal shitpost reading near table |
| 22:41 |
rubenwardy |
it's just not designed for stuff that a real computer would be good at |
| 22:41 |
Fixer |
rubenwardy: exactly |
| 22:41 |
twoelk |
my first programmable device was a pocket calculater :-D |
| 22:42 |
Fixer |
"PC is dead" hype, now there are tons of assholes who cry with "tablets are dying" |
| 22:42 |
Fixer |
hype after hype after hype |
| 22:43 |
Fixer |
market oversaturation and boom |
| 22:43 |
garywhite |
Heck, my first computer was a PC with a horrible version of Windows...guess which one |
| 22:43 |
twoelk |
the market is simply getting more fractured |
| 22:43 |
Fixer |
and suddenly tablets/smartphoneshit is not replacing much, you still need real PC to do stuff, sky is not falling etc |
| 22:43 |
red-001 |
Fixer, fixed |
| 22:44 |
red-001 |
also added download links to windows builds and linux appimage |
| 22:44 |
Fixer |
tablet sales are decelerating -> TABLETS ARE DIEING!!11111 |
| 22:44 |
Fixer |
sky is falling! |
| 22:45 |
twoelk |
no, wait, the first programmable device in our family was a knitting machine using something like punch cards :-P |
| 22:45 |
Fixer |
twoelk: you was wealthy |
| 22:46 |
Fixer |
programmable calculator... |
| 22:46 |
Fixer |
too fancy |
| 22:46 |
Fixer |
for that time |
| 22:46 |
twoelk |
not really but my father loved gadgets like that |
| 22:47 |
twoelk |
that calculater taught me the basic basics (pun intended) |
| 22:48 |
Fixer |
it was probably expensive as hell |
| 22:48 |
Fixer |
calculator is pretty recent invention |
| 22:48 |
twoelk |
well, it was second hand |
| 22:48 |
Fixer |
started to appear in 70es |
| 22:48 |
Fixer |
70s* |
| 22:48 |
Calinou |
I remember the "PC is dead" meme in 2012 |
| 22:48 |
Calinou |
lol |
| 22:49 |
Calinou |
also yeah, tablets are dying off |
| 22:49 |
Calinou |
due to larger phones |
| 22:49 |
Fixer |
before that there were logarithmic ||||||||||||||||||||||| (how they called i forgot) |
| 22:49 |
Calinou |
sadly, there is no good Android tablet right now |
| 22:49 |
Calinou |
the Pixel C is nice but 1.5 years old already |
| 22:49 |
Calinou |
also fairly expensive |
| 22:49 |
Calinou |
(iPad-priced) |
| 22:49 |
red-001 |
anyone here have a itch.io account? |
| 22:49 |
Fixer |
Calinou: still, i would prefer 10" tablet over 6" brick, much better for youtube/books/pdf/etc |
| 22:50 |
Fixer |
telephone is telephone |
| 22:50 |
Fixer |
also, i would rather see long battery life |
| 22:50 |
Fixer |
not this shit brick shit that bands and dies within 1 day |
| 22:50 |
Fixer |
that hardly fits into pockets |
| 22:51 |
Fixer |
even 5" is small these days, LOL |
| 22:51 |
rubenwardy |
red-001, yeah, https://rubenwardy.itch.io/ although not released anything |
| 22:51 |
garywhite |
tbh, I have an Android phone, & it sucks. I don't care for smartphones, considering that you have this big 5" thing in your pocket |
| 22:52 |
Calinou |
10" tablet is much nicer (and more poweful) than 7" or 8" |
| 22:52 |
Calinou |
the Pixel C is 10" |
| 22:52 |
Fixer |
all brick shit, now do extravagant, make small android smartphone with good battery and hardware keyboard, eh? |
| 22:52 |
Calinou |
IIRC, it has the same CPU as the… Nintendo Switch |
| 22:52 |
Calinou |
NVIDIA Tegra X1 |
| 22:52 |
Calinou |
GLES 3.1, Vulkan supported |
| 22:52 |
Fixer |
Calinou: i have 10" tablet, not even looking at brick smartphone shit |
| 22:53 |
Fixer |
phone is for calls, remembA? |
| 22:53 |
Sokomine |
yes. why are no smaller devices sold? or at least no usable ones |
| 22:53 |
Calinou |
I'm ok with large phones, I have large hands |
| 22:53 |
Calinou |
5.5" is ideal for me |
| 22:54 |
garywhite |
Flip phone is ideal for me |
| 22:54 |
Calinou |
you can find 5" phones with some effort but they're not high-end, and thus not particularly borderless… |
| 22:54 |
Fixer |
I want 4" |
| 22:55 |
red-001 |
rubenwardy, could you take a look and see if this is set up corectly https://red-001.itch.io/minetest/download/test-pDpdMucarWryaJsM5YbKbfTTYP-PR95P6yBWrPJw5YsdEQdHCFdjXQp ? |
| 22:55 |
Fixer |
i can use 5", but it is the limit for me |
| 22:55 |
Fixer |
not because of hands |
| 22:55 |
garywhite |
I actually have this as a secondary phone, just have to get a miniSIM from the carrier |
| 22:55 |
Fixer |
i dislike to carry huge crap |
| 22:55 |
garywhite |
http://www.gsmarena.com/nokia_6085-1705.php |
| 22:56 |
rubenwardy |
red-001, I see 3 downloads, w32 w64 and appimage |
| 22:56 |
rubenwardy |
although I had to "link my account" first, whatever that means |
| 22:56 |
red-001 |
do we have more downloads that don't need a package manager? |
| 22:56 |
Fixer |
garywhite: i''ve seen even smaller one, it was perfect but rain destroyed it |
| 22:57 |
Sokomine |
Calinou: too big for me |
| 22:57 |
* Sokomine |
nods to fixer and wants even smaller ones |
| 22:57 |
Fixer |
my friend uses actual Nokia 3230 |
| 22:58 |
Fixer |
or some model close to it |
| 22:58 |
Fixer |
no, not that |
| 22:58 |
red-001 |
so it looks ok? |
| 22:58 |
Fixer |
oldschool one |
| 22:58 |
garywhite |
3310? |
| 22:58 |
Fixer |
3230 was mine, not long ago |
| 22:58 |
* twoelk |
misses his old Nokia that would last for weeks with a single charge |
| 22:59 |
Fixer |
garywhite: yes, 3310 |
| 22:59 |
Fixer |
or 3410 |
| 23:00 |
Fixer |
this one http://keep-talking.net/nokia/3410-silver.jpg |
| 23:00 |
red-001 |
oh it someone else wants to check if it's working as expected https://pastebin.com/PaDrxKix |
| 23:00 |
red-001 |
if* |
| 23:01 |
Fixer |
garywhite: and it worked for like >10 years, still works |
| 23:01 |
Fixer |
i had 3310 back in the day |
| 23:03 |
garywhite |
I remember my parents had some kind of old Nokia phone like the 3310, dunno if it was though, & to put it simply, it was so long ago that Cingular was still a wireless company |
| 23:04 |
Fixer |
i still have rotary phone for emergency if needed |
| 23:04 |
Fixer |
it does not require power |
| 23:04 |
Fixer |
from 220V |
| 23:04 |
Fixer |
just from phone line itself |
| 23:05 |
garywhite |
I wish we could use that, but our stupid VoIP wants something like $30 for the battery for our modem that just HAS to control our Internet & home phone |
| 23:06 |
red-001 |
https://red-001.itch.io/minetest?password=password |
| 23:06 |
Fixer |
i was user of analog telephony at the time, it was problematic |
| 23:06 |
twoelk |
the phone that has outlived all our others and is still being the most used -> http://www.aller-leih.com/static/images/productimage-picture-bp-telefon-15426_JPG_600x600_q85.jpg |
| 23:07 |
Fixer |
i have something like that, but different colour |
| 23:08 |
Fixer |
red-001: below MINETEST you should add description of the game |
| 23:08 |
Fixer |
what it is, etc |
| 23:08 |
twoelk |
only problem is when some robot wants you to press a number |
| 23:08 |
Fixer |
twoelk: robot? |
| 23:08 |
Fixer |
ah |
| 23:08 |
Fixer |
too much 4chan >_> |
| 23:09 |
Fixer |
twoelk: i've used it before robot time |
| 23:09 |
Fixer |
i don't really call to robots these days |
| 23:09 |
Fixer |
it is problematic |
| 23:09 |
Fixer |
takes ages |
| 23:09 |
Fixer |
fuck em |
| 23:09 |
twoelk |
telephone robot -- if you want service blah press the one, if you want blup press the two |
| 23:09 |
Fixer |
yes |
| 23:09 |
Fixer |
this crap |
| 23:10 |
twoelk |
I hate them |
| 23:10 |
Fixer |
we largely avoided that crap and had actual human |
| 23:10 |
Fixer |
but now there is a lot of this crap |
| 23:10 |
Fixer |
sure, it is in some ways convinient, but takes much longer |
| 23:11 |
twoelk |
not convinient for the caller |
| 23:11 |
red-001 |
Fixer, done https://red-001.itch.io/minetest |
| 23:11 |
Fixer |
twoelk: there is no better way to do it right now |
| 23:12 |
red-001 |
I managed to find out how to making it public and unlisted |
| 23:12 |
Calinou |
"If you buy MINETEST you will get additional mod implementing FIXER into the game!" |
| 23:12 |
Calinou |
instant best-seller. |
| 23:13 |
Fixer |
featuring minetest ad: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WjRjqYGNeQU |
| 23:14 |
red-001 |
Calinou, oh btw I'm using your appimage for it if thats ok with you |
| 23:14 |
Calinou |
red-001: it is not up-to-date :( |
| 23:14 |
Calinou |
it was compiled in Februrary 2017 |
| 23:14 |
Calinou |
lots of fixes since then |
| 23:14 |
rubenwardy |
remember when a video called "THE WORST GAME EVER - MINETEST" was the featured video on our homepage? |
| 23:14 |
Calinou |
I have a 0.4.15 AppImage around I think, not sure if it's online |
| 23:14 |
Calinou |
rubenwardy: hmm, I might |
| 23:14 |
Calinou |
"The worst game ever" also was an unofficial tagline for Cube 2: Sauerbraten at a time |
| 23:15 |
red-001 |
I'm using a link to your site if thats ok, if you prefer I can upload it to itch.io servers |
| 23:15 |
Calinou |
better do that, yeah |
| 23:15 |
Calinou |
I have a large amount of unmetered bandwidth but it's not infinite either |
| 23:15 |
Calinou |
so let itch.io's servers suffer the Itch Hug of Death :P |
| 23:15 |
Fixer |
rubenwardy: i rarely visited the homepage...ooo*** |
| 23:16 |
Fixer |
rubenwardy: How you name the ship (c) |
| 23:16 |
twoelk |
the word infinite is overrated |
| 23:16 |
Fixer |
yes |
| 23:16 |
Fixer |
compared to MC - insanely overrated |
| 23:17 |
Fixer |
but OK for 95% of players |
| 23:17 |
Fixer |
you can fit most of population in 1000x1000 |
| 23:19 |
twoelk |
hm, red-001, should the download links work? |
| 23:19 |
red-001 |
yes |
| 23:20 |
Fixer |
Calinou: i would avoid calling your game worst in the world, I would rather put PEPE in it... |
| 23:21 |
twoelk |
I get the -thanks for downloading- popup but nothing else happens |
| 23:22 |
Fixer |
enable javascript :trollface: |
| 23:22 |
red-001 |
twoelk, which one are you trying to download? |
| 23:22 |
twoelk |
tried all three |
| 23:22 |
red-001 |
huh maybe it's better if I upload all the file to itch.io servers |
| 23:23 |
red-001 |
twoelk, could you see if the appimage works once you refresh the page? |
| 23:24 |
twoelk |
ok appimage seems to work now but not the windows versions |
| 23:24 |
Fixer |
twoelk: firefox blocked popup window, probably because of that |
| 23:24 |
Fixer |
download works |
| 23:25 |
Fixer |
but it is blocked because it is popup, or some of my firefox addons block it |
| 23:25 |
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octacian joined #minetest-hub |
| 23:26 |
red-001 |
alright I uploaded all the files to itch.io servers so it will download faster |
| 23:27 |
red-001 |
(itch.io forces you to wait when downloading an external file for some reason) |
| 23:27 |
twoelk |
all seem to work now :-) |
| 23:27 |
red-001 |
alright I will list it on itch.io then |
| 23:28 |
red-001 |
done |
| 23:29 |
red-001 |
I will work on intergrating minetest with itch.io some other time |
| 23:38 |
Fixer |
twoelk: i have red phone :} fancy |
| 23:38 |
Fixer |
rotary one |
| 23:39 |
twoelk |
mine is green as in pic |
| 23:42 |
twoelk |
telephone guy let me have it when he replaced it with a newer one for the flat I had rented. He said they where being thrown away anyway so I got it for free |
| 23:43 |
twoelk |
it's been with me some almost 30 years now |
| 23:44 |
Fixer |
C Y B E R N O S T A L G I A |
| 23:45 |
Fixer |
my red one should be quite old |
| 23:45 |
Fixer |
he is also buggy |
| 23:45 |
Fixer |
after call i loose sound sometimes |
| 23:45 |
Fixer |
need to check insides |
| 23:46 |
twoelk |
it's somewhat battered and falling appart - but does the job - and amazingly has the best sound |
| 23:49 |
twoelk |
it's interesting watching my young nephews trying to dail with it for the first time, pressing the numbers in the holes :-D |
| 23:49 |
Fixer |
yeah, too much touch screens |
| 23:50 |
Fixer |
i had so much problems with calling, my line was shitty, needed to recall many times |
| 23:50 |
Fixer |
that is all gone, dialup is also gone |
| 23:50 |
Fixer |
i'm glad it is |
| 23:50 |
Fixer |
analogue line + dialup was horrendous |
| 23:51 |
Fixer |
once had 4 people on same line |
| 23:51 |
twoelk |
:-O |
| 23:51 |
Fixer |
i mean during talk |
| 23:52 |
Fixer |
other couple of persons somehow integrated into our conversation |
| 23:52 |
Fixer |
4 people on line |
| 23:52 |
Fixer |
wtfing |
| 23:53 |
Fixer |
probably some rare bug on station |
| 23:53 |
twoelk |
fun like that hardly happens anymore |
| 23:53 |
Fixer |
yes |
| 23:53 |
Fixer |
and rain... |
| 23:53 |
Fixer |
amount of noise |
| 23:54 |
Fixer |
usually connected at 28.8K or slightly higher |
| 23:54 |
Fixer |
when it went digital, dialup speed upped to 45K, if good day |
| 23:55 |
twoelk |
I remember visiting our telephon switching station and being shown a hall full of mechanical relais - that noise |
| 23:55 |
Fixer |
4kbyte/sec |
| 23:55 |
Fixer |
good night! |
| 23:56 |
twoelk |
0/ |
| 23:57 |
* twoelk |
is probably afk for several days |
| 23:57 |
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twoelk left #minetest-hub |
