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| 13:20 |
Zughy[m] |
OP has disappeared and this should be closed, but I don't have any power in the irrlicht repo: https://github.com/minetest/irrlicht/pull/134 |
| 13:23 |
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| 13:34 |
Zughy[m] |
Sorry I haven't created the meeting note, I completely forgot. Anyway, meeting in about 3:30h |
| 13:38 |
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| 13:51 |
Desour |
Zughy[m]: that's some interesting feedback! did they by chance name an example of a project that has less "gatekeeping vibes", and what they did better? |
| 13:52 |
Desour |
(otherwise, to make getting into engine development easier, we should definitely add more recent engine documentation, i.e. explaining the architecture on a high level) |
| 14:26 |
Zughy[m] |
Desour: unfortunately not, but I guess Godot it'd be a nice example |
| 15:15 |
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| 16:06 |
MTDiscord |
<numzero> Take a look at irrlicht/examples/AutomatedTest/main.cpp. That’s the only file that was using that function IIRC. Replacing it took a few lines but was straightforward. |
| 16:08 |
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| 16:08 |
MTDiscord |
<numzero> If you need it in several tests now though, restore it as a free function somewhere in test code (am I right you only need it for tests?). |
| 17:02 |
Zughy[m] |
Dlin dlon, meeting time 🛎️ |
| 17:02 |
Zughy[m] |
How many people here? |
| 17:03 |
Desour |
hi |
| 17:04 |
MTDiscord |
<Thresher> hello |
| 17:05 |
MTDiscord |
<Thresher> desour: what exactly was wrong with c_converter.h? |
| 17:05 |
Zughy[m] |
please keep these questions for later |
| 17:06 |
Desour |
will answer in PR |
| 17:06 |
Zughy[m] |
>close all the Jude's PRs that haven't been adopted (Zughy) |
| 17:06 |
Zughy[m] |
anyone wants to adopt something? https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pulls/TurkeyMcMac |
| 17:07 |
Desour |
I will definitely adopt some, regardless of whether they're open or closed. |
| 17:08 |
Desour |
if the adoption_needed label is used correctly (i.e. applied on all non-adopted ones of them), it shouldn't be hard to find them |
| 17:08 |
Zughy[m] |
yes, I usually remove it after a couple years |
| 17:08 |
Zughy[m] |
but I forget most of the time |
| 17:09 |
Zughy[m] |
well then, I'll close them for now |
| 17:10 |
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| 17:10 |
Zughy[m] |
>"Dual Wielding" I think OP is waiting for a core dev feedback, see their last comment (Zughy) |
| 17:11 |
Zughy[m] |
#11016 |
| 17:11 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/11016 -- Dual Wielding by LizzyFleckenstein03 |
| 17:12 |
Zughy[m] |
basically, it says "Action/Change needed", but I'm afraid it's not OP's |
| 17:13 |
Desour |
>I usually remove it after a couple years <-- please don't, at least not without comment. the PRs will get lost otherwise, and iirc, we don't have so many closed adoption needed PRs |
| 17:15 |
Zughy[m] |
53 |
| 17:20 |
Zughy[m] |
anyway, since it seems only Desour and I are here, I'll just leave some food for thought: we should really consider to change name, people think we're some alpha version of Minecraft. In general it's very misleading, since mines are not a core feature (plenty of games have none) nor we've been a test of Minecraft for years |
| 17:20 |
Krock |
the Dual Wield issue is tricky to fix overall |
| 17:20 |
rubenwardy |
everyone agrees the name is rubbish, no one agrees what to rename to |
| 17:20 |
MTDiscord |
<ROllerozxa> nodetech |
| 17:21 |
Desour |
I like having a rubbish name, it suits minetest |
| 17:21 |
Desour |
(sorry for offense) |
| 17:21 |
Krock |
this has been brought up at least as often as infinite worlds and no solution has been found for either |
| 17:21 |
Zughy[m] |
well, let's start with the core feature: it's a voxel game engine |
| 17:21 |
Zughy[m] |
something with "cube"? |
| 17:21 |
Desour |
voxels are not cubes |
| 17:22 |
Zughy[m] |
the world is made of cubes, c'mon |
| 17:23 |
Desour |
a mtg flower is not a cube |
| 17:24 |
Zughy[m] |
Krock: I imagine, but I (nor anyone else) can't spend 5 minutes every time for every single person to explain them that we're not Minecraft and why we're called like that |
| 17:25 |
Krock |
instead we're wasting time here trying to find a name that everyone agrees on which hasn't worked in years |
| 17:26 |
Krock |
the forum should have a few topics with name suggestions |
| 17:26 |
Krock |
perhaps it's possible to get inspired there |
| 17:26 |
Desour |
searched for the renaming threads, found #11657, #5670, https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=17133 |
| 17:26 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/11657 -- Rename Minetest to better communicate this project being a sandbox engine, perhaps by conducting an up-to-date vote by the community |
| 17:26 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5670 -- Renaming Minetest |
| 17:28 |
Krock |
the survey says "no", though. |
| 17:29 |
Krock |
seems like the majority has decided |
| 17:29 |
Zughy[m] |
probably the majority has never been to a festival trying to explain outsiders what Minetest is |
| 17:30 |
Zughy[m] |
this comment is a great summary: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?p=261117&sid=698563ecd79b5759849859ab0418d0d2#p261117 |
| 17:30 |
rubenwardy |
honestly, it's a good warning. Primes them to the amount of jank |
| 17:30 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> what's an festival |
| 17:30 |
rubenwardy |
maybe one day when we have fewer issues, we can rename ourselves to Mineprod |
| 17:31 |
rubenwardy |
a conference but more fun, I'm guessing |
| 17:31 |
Krock |
summary or not. the community is OK with it |
| 17:31 |
Desour |
to enchance the warning, we could add a typo: minetset |
| 17:31 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> mesetint |
| 17:36 |
rubenwardy |
biased survey |
| 17:37 |
MTDiscord |
<Thresher> https://github.com/Unarelith/OpenMiner |
| 17:37 |
MTDiscord |
<Thresher> whar |
| 17:37 |
MTDiscord |
<Thresher> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/747163566800633906/1107361162242302083/image.png |
| 17:39 |
Krock |
I have an idea -hear me out! what about.... Freeminer? |
| 17:40 |
MTDiscord |
<Thresher> multicraft? |
| 17:40 |
Krock |
good idea |
| 17:40 |
MTDiscord |
<ROllerozxa> minecraft, even |
| 17:40 |
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| 17:41 |
MTDiscord |
<Thresher> voxeltest |
| 17:41 |
rubenwardy |
this is why I don't like renaming conversations |
| 17:41 |
Desour |
testtest |
| 17:41 |
MTDiscord |
<Thresher> wardytest |
| 17:42 |
MTDiscord |
<ROllerozxa> irrvoxel |
| 17:42 |
Pexin |
CaveCubes |
| 17:43 |
MTDiscord |
<Thresher> how are you even supposed to pronounce "irrlicht" |
| 17:43 |
MTDiscord |
<ROllerozxa> it's german |
| 17:43 |
pgimeno |
maybe the game should be separated from the engine? it's hard to give a name to something that is an engine but contains a built-in game which can be used or not, but is mostly a base to build on |
| 17:43 |
MTDiscord |
<Thresher> ear - lisht? |
| 17:44 |
MTDiscord |
<Thresher> the game is separated from the engine |
| 17:44 |
rubenwardy |
the name we need to change is the game engine / game creation platform |
| 17:44 |
MTDiscord |
<ROllerozxa> anyways jokes aside, having a -tech suffix as opposed to -test could make it more clear it's an engine, rather than a scrappy minecraft clone game |
| 17:44 |
Desour |
if we were some big cooperation, it would've already gotten some stupid generic name, like core |
| 17:44 |
pgimeno |
I like minetech |
| 17:45 |
rubenwardy |
any name starting with mine or ending with craft probably invokes too many comparisons with MC, better to try and form our own identity |
| 17:45 |
Desour |
we could also softly just change the capitalization: MiNetEst (has "net" in it, because the engine is multiplayer-focused) |
| 17:45 |
rubenwardy |
and any name with "test" in it doesn't solve the problem |
| 17:45 |
Krock |
Craftminer passes your sanity checks |
| 17:46 |
rubenwardy |
haha |
| 17:46 |
rubenwardy |
thinking too much like a programmer |
| 17:46 |
Krock |
somewhat |
| 17:47 |
Pexin |
well I'd suggest decide on newname in time for 6.0 |
| 17:47 |
giov4[m] |
Desour: "Voxacore" ahah |
| 17:47 |
Desour |
6test |
| 17:47 |
Pexin |
(in 20 years) |
| 17:47 |
MTDiscord |
<Thresher> voxey!! >w< |
| 17:48 |
Zughy[m] |
and a fox as a mascotte |
| 17:48 |
Zughy[m] |
boom |
| 17:48 |
rubenwardy |
5.0 was 7 years after 0.4, so we have until 2026 |
| 17:49 |
Pexin |
bet it wasnt 7 yrs between 0.1 0.2 |
| 17:49 |
Krock |
those were minor versions |
| 17:50 |
Krock |
but from 0 to 5 we did 5 steps at once, which means that in 2026 there will be version 10.0 |
| 17:50 |
Desour |
yes, skip more versions |
| 17:51 |
Pexin |
Minetest Vista |
| 17:51 |
pgimeno |
Landscape Engine |
| 17:51 |
MTDiscord |
<Thresher> minecraft 2 |
| 17:51 |
pgimeno |
can we drop the jokes? |
| 17:52 |
Zughy[m] |
I genuinely like Voxey, it sounds childish and playful. Draw a fox as a mascotte and profit |
| 17:52 |
MTDiscord |
<Thresher> "minetest vista" isn't a joke? |
| 17:52 |
rubenwardy |
owu voxey |
| 17:52 |
rubenwardy |
uwu voxey |
| 17:53 |
Zughy[m] |
you're not helping |
| 17:53 |
MTDiscord |
<josiah_wi> I only need it for tests, and I've already written my own subclass which should be portable. The tests treat Irrlicht as a black box so they can't access Irrlicht's internal implementations (CReadFile and CLimitReadFile). |
| 17:53 |
Pexin |
I still like tunnelbauer |
| 17:53 |
MTDiscord |
<Thresher> gitvoxel |
| 17:54 |
MTDiscord |
<Thresher> BlockVerse TerraCraft Voxiland CubeWorld MineCraftopia PixelQuest WorldForge GeoRealm Craftopia LandBlocks TerraBlocks VoxCraft PixelMiner CubicExplorer Earthscape CraftVerse BlockScape TerraMiner VoxWorld CubeMiner |
| 17:54 |
MTDiscord |
<josiah_wi> I like Tunnelbauer as well. Irrlicht is already a German name so it'd fit wonderfully. |
| 17:54 |
Zughy[m] |
CubeWorld is a game |
| 17:55 |
rubenwardy |
chatgpt vibes from that list |
| 17:55 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> This feels unproductive |
| 17:55 |
rubenwardy |
renaming conversation? well I never |
| 17:55 |
Zughy[m] |
Does anyone mind if I open an issue about that? |
| 17:55 |
MTDiscord |
<ROllerozxa> voxey sounds very cute |
| 17:55 |
MTDiscord |
<josiah_wi> Do you think it might be productive to turn that list into a community survey? |
| 17:55 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> Not likely |
| 17:55 |
Zughy[m] |
to turn it into a survey it means we should provide a few options first |
| 17:56 |
MTDiscord |
<Thresher> textbox survey 🤯 |
| 17:56 |
Pexin |
huge list of prefixes, huge list of postfixes |
| 17:56 |
Pexin |
winner: MineMine |
| 17:56 |
Desour |
textbox, and arrange it into a wordcloud? |
| 17:56 |
Zughy[m] |
selfish name |
| 17:56 |
MTDiscord |
<Thresher> Voxey 😻 |
| 17:57 |
Zughy[m] |
Ofc the issue will be strictyl moderated |
| 17:57 |
Zughy[m] |
*strictly |
| 17:57 |
MTDiscord |
<josiah_wi> Something that worked pretty well for making the US Constitution was to elect a bunch of delegates and have them work it out. |
| 17:57 |
Zughy[m] |
to avoid.. well, this |
| 17:58 |
MTDiscord |
<Bla> MinetestNotCraft |
| 17:59 |
Desour |
tbh, I'm still for something like MiNetEst. I don't remember any positive example of software renaming. someone will always be unsatisfied, and everyone has some work to do to update to the new name. therefor: less disruption = better |
| 18:00 |
rubenwardy |
The name sucks, it's not been changed in the past because of the pain of deciding and doing it. Most people in the community have already passed the hurdle of the name and it's not a big deal to them, if it was then they would have left |
| 18:00 |
MTDiscord |
<Thresher> MiNetEst |
| 18:00 |
MTDiscord |
<Thresher> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/747163566800633906/1107366952437035139/Mocking-Spongebob.png |
| 18:01 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> You could probably call it anything other than something related to blocks or voxels and it would sound better |
| 18:01 |
Pexin |
Zughy's point is that without a namechange, its appeal to current NON-community members is stunted |
| 18:01 |
Zughy[m] |
^ |
| 18:01 |
rubenwardy |
exactly |
| 18:01 |
rubenwardy |
I'm saying why the issue is downplayed, it's a selection bias within our community |
| 18:02 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> I'll take "Cantaloupe Game Engine" over something like "VoxelMaker" |
| 18:03 |
MTDiscord |
<Thresher> 😻 【Ｖｏｘｅｙ】😼 |
| 18:03 |
Pexin |
voxbauer? |
| 18:03 |
Zughy[m] |
and since I've been talking with outsiders for two events here in Italy (and 4 more to come), I'm not asking to trust me, I'm asking to trust them - they were interested |
| 18:03 |
MTDiscord |
<josiah_wi> Is there a reason we can't try a new name for a month with the plan to change it back if the response is terrible? |
| 18:03 |
rubenwardy |
overhead of renaming and if we move domains we could sabotage our SEO |
| 18:04 |
rubenwardy |
Public renaming conversations end up with bikeshedding and nonsense, would rather avoid them. The best way to rename would probably be to: |
| 18:04 |
rubenwardy |
1) decide to rename. This is a boolean, needs celeron55/etc buy in |
| 18:04 |
rubenwardy |
2) a small group of people come up with names and then test them. Focus groups would be better than a survey as people don't know what they want |
| 18:04 |
rubenwardy |
3) do the rename |
| 18:04 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> We don't have to change infrastructure yet |
| 18:04 |
rubenwardy |
alternatively, replace 2) with "celeron55 decides the new name" |
| 18:04 |
giov4[m] |
<Zughy[m]> "I genuinely like Voxey, it..." <- Voxily 👀 |
| 18:04 |
Zughy[m] |
yeah, people wouldn't fall for the minetest.org trap |
| 18:05 |
giov4[m] |
rubenwardy: MineTest55 |
| 18:05 |
rubenwardy |
if people don't get the memo for the rename then more people could fall for it. Google has options to redirect entire domains, not sure if it would be clever enough to keep our new name as #1 for the old name |
| 18:05 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1 -- GlowStone code by anonymousAwesome |
| 18:05 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> I believe new names could be designed more purposefully than just riffing off of blocky words |
| 18:05 |
rubenwardy |
Minetest-c55, I'll have you know |
| 18:05 |
rubenwardy |
GreenXenith: yeah, that's what you get with these unproductive naming conversations |
| 18:06 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> A convenient time to rebrand would be when MTG is decoupled |
| 18:06 |
rubenwardy |
the most important step would be 1) |
| 18:09 |
Zughy[m] |
We could send an e-mail but enough people in the staff you should agree with that first |
| 18:10 |
Zughy[m] |
as far as I can tell is a no from Krock, a yes from me, a... yes from both ruben and Desour? I'm not certain |
| 18:10 |
rubenwardy |
My position is that I see the name as a problem, but I'm worried about the confusion, pain, and SEO implications of renaming, especially when there are malicious actors owning prominent domains |
| 18:12 |
Desour |
I'm feeling the same as ruben. and I'm also worrying about the overall increased maintenance and renaming costs |
| 18:16 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> I think the overhead is lower than we think it is. That, and the longer we wait, the harder it gets |
| 18:17 |
rubenwardy |
the costs of renaming are more indirect than direct |
| 18:18 |
rubenwardy |
it's fairly easy to buy a domain, rename stuff in the application, etc |
| 18:18 |
rubenwardy |
the indirect costs is the confusion and ensuring that enough people find out the change |
| 18:18 |
Zughy[m] |
what Matrix did when it changed its name was to call the app "Matrix (previously Riot)" for a while |
| 18:19 |
Desour |
and "minetest" being used in repo names, in code, in discussions, ... |
| 18:19 |
rubenwardy |
code really isn't that hard, in discussions doesn't matter |
| 18:19 |
Desour |
but the readers of the discussions still need to know the old name |
| 18:19 |
Zughy[m] |
*Element, Matrix is the protocol, sorry |
| 18:20 |
pgimeno |
RewriteRule (.*)\.minetest.net/(.*) $1.newname.tld/$2 |
| 18:20 |
Desour |
I see Element as a negative example for renaming. "element" is an english word and much too generic |
| 18:21 |
Desour |
(and renaming costs were not big, as it wasn't already a decade old) |
| 18:22 |
pgimeno |
it's easy to make every old link point to the new site's corresponding page once moved |
| 18:22 |
rubenwardy |
yeah, domain redirects are easy |
| 18:22 |
ROllerozxa |
"it's fairly easy to buy a domain" assuming a malicious person doesn't snipe any potential names... |
| 18:23 |
pgimeno |
rubenwardy: who would not find out the change if all links are redirected then? |
| 18:23 |
rubenwardy |
those googling "minetest" and seeing a malicious domain |
| 18:24 |
rubenwardy |
ROllerozxa: yeah, one of the reasons to discuss in private and buy domains before any public announcements |
| 18:26 |
Desour |
if we had in-game news (which would be useful anyways), we could use that to communicate to the userbase when we rename. but to get that rolled out to most distros, it will take some months or years |
| 18:28 |
Zughy[m] |
why do you need in-game news when you can rename it like Element did? See my previous message |
| 18:28 |
MTDiscord |
<Thresher> there are many other reasons in-game news would be useful |
| 18:28 |
Zughy[m] |
totally, I was talking about this point in particular |
| 18:29 |
rubenwardy |
merging web#279 in 10 |
| 18:29 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest.github.io/issues/279 -- [NoSquash] Add App Privacy Policy by rubenwardy |
| 18:30 |
MTDiscord |
<numzero> Not sure of CLimitReadFile but CReadFile is accessible via device->getFileSystem()->createAndOpenFile |
| 18:31 |
MTDiscord |
<numzero> (replying to a message well above... the bridge apparently discards that info) |
| 18:31 |
Desour |
Zughy[m]: I was actually using riot when they did the renaming. it caused some confusion for me. and in the case of minetest, searching the web for help is assumably more common. and large portions of minetest users don't use a rolling distro, so they'd have more issues, I guess |
| 18:32 |
MTDiscord |
<rubenwardy> > I only need it for tests, and I've already written my own subclass which should be portable. The tests treat Irrlicht as a black box so they can't access Irrlicht's internal implementations (CReadFile and CLimitReadFile). |
| 18:38 |
MTDiscord |
<josiah_wi> Thank you numzero. That will allow me to eliminate about an hour's worth of code. Thank you very much. |
| 18:39 |
MTDiscord |
<josiah_wi> I guess I should have grepped or searched online for relevant functions before writing my own file opening implementation. |
| 20:20 |
Zughy[m] |
So I still don't get if we should bother celeron or not |
| 20:28 |
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| 20:30 |
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| 20:32 |
celeron55 |
renaming minetest has always been an option |
| 20:32 |
celeron55 |
however many things need to align for it to happen |
| 20:33 |
jordan4ibanez |
What will it be renamed to? :) |
| 20:34 |
celeron55 |
that's one of the difficult things |
| 20:34 |
celeron55 |
the universal namespace is very crowded |
| 20:34 |
|
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| 20:35 |
celeron55 |
and people have different preferences and goals with a nae |
| 20:35 |
celeron55 |
name* |
| 20:36 |
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jordan4ibanez joined #minetest-dev |
| 20:36 |
jordan4ibanez |
That is quite true. We must find something that differentiates minetest from the others within that namespace |
| 20:39 |
jordan4ibanez |
So Minetest's basis is: A game engine. This game engine's world consists of nodes which in default state exist as a block, cubes, equally sized 3x3 planes. Within the default state of the engine, with a blank game exists nothing but air & stone. There is no goal. There is no point. You must give the game within this game engine a point. A reason to exist. What encapsulates this vision of the engine without intertwining any game that has |
| 20:39 |
jordan4ibanez |
ever existed within the space of it? What word exists in the english language in which someone hears it they think of this project? |
| 20:40 |
v-rob |
I can empathize with the pain of explaining the name Minetest to other people. I made a education theory of computation mod (https://github.com/v-rob/automata/, not as yet published in ContentDB), and it seems that no one could get past "Wait, you said Minecraft, right?" "No I didn't: 'Minetest'--it's an open source game *engine*" "But it looks like a clone of Minecraft" "That's a game made with the engine, it can do much more than that" "Yeah, but |
| 20:40 |
v-rob |
Minecraft can do XYZ" "Gaah! That's not relevant! Pay attention to the mod already!" |
| 20:40 |
v-rob |
It got old fast |
| 20:41 |
MTDiscord |
<jordan4ibanez> Voxel Canvas? |
| 20:43 |
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runs joined #minetest-dev |
| 20:43 |
runs |
Please someone adopt this one https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/12928 |
| 20:43 |
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| 20:44 |
runs |
I propose CubeZ as a new name, it has punch. |
| 20:46 |
runs |
https://namelix.com/ is a brand generator wit AI |
| 20:47 |
runs |
namelix give me "Blocko" I love this name |
| 20:49 |
runs |
https://namelix.com/app/?keywords=cube+game+voxel |
| 20:50 |
celeron55 |
my style in naming is such that i'd like minetest to be called mesetint, for example. uniqueness is more important than easily understandable logic. however that name has been already taken by multiple minetest-related projects |
| 20:51 |
celeron55 |
CubeZ is a widely used name already, it's not an option at all |
| 20:51 |
jordan4ibanez |
Well, perhaps the shifting of the engine's global ID within understanding of the community takes presidence over the games within it? |
| 20:51 |
celeron55 |
as is Blocko |
| 20:51 |
v-rob |
I don't care a whole lot about what name we have; Minetest is a fine name from a lot of standpoints. For instance, it's easily searchable online, since there's nothing else that will come up for "Minetest". It's not overly hard to type or remember. Perhaps the only downsides are that it gets confused with Minecraft and it sounds "new" because it has "test" in the name, which are both point of pain when talking to new people. I would dislike a name |
| 20:51 |
v-rob |
along the lines of "Voxel Engine", for instance, because it would be hard to search online. |
| 20:52 |
runs |
cubega, voxelio, blocktopia, bloxit are examples of short and punchy names |
| 20:52 |
celeron55 |
a name is very easy to learn for people. that's why the name doesn't have to be derivable in any way |
| 20:52 |
runs |
no more than two syllables |
| 20:52 |
v-rob |
Mesetint sounds like a fine name to me along my line of reasoning. |
| 20:52 |
jordan4ibanez |
DreamVox? |
| 20:53 |
celeron55 |
one name that has stuck into my mind is Kuutio. it's the finnish word meaning cube and it is still totally unused in the video game context |
| 20:54 |
celeron55 |
paramat suggested it at some point |
| 20:54 |
jordan4ibanez |
Ooo, that's pretty good. For americans, that also gives it an element of mystique! |
| 20:54 |
v-rob |
Non-English words actually sound like a very smart idea |
| 20:55 |
jordan4ibanez |
What if you cut out one of the Us to make it just Kutio? |
| 20:55 |
v-rob |
Irrlicht, Kuutio, Lua--sheesh, none of our names will be English at this rate :) |
| 20:55 |
jordan4ibanez |
Kew-Tee-Oh |
| 20:55 |
celeron55 |
well kutio isn't a finnish word so as a finnish person i wouldn't like it |
| 20:55 |
celeron55 |
it would seem silly here locally |
| 20:55 |
jordan4ibanez |
I suppose, we're finnished with my idea |
| 20:55 |
runs |
no, kutio or kutyo, NOT kuutio, double letters are confusing to read and type in a browser. |
| 20:56 |
v-rob |
..."letters" has a double letter |
| 20:57 |
v-rob |
So does "Irrlicht" |
| 20:57 |
runs |
I propose a contest with several options to be voted by a committee of wise men. |
| 20:57 |
jordan4ibanez |
I was only saying that because I'm monolingual and uu is not common in american english |
| 20:58 |
runs |
"Irrlicht" is an example of a horrendous name, I never know how to write it. |
| 20:58 |
v-rob |
Only if you don't speak German. |
| 20:58 |
v-rob |
For reference, I don't speak German or Finnish, but I see no reason to be hostile to names in those languages |
| 21:00 |
runs |
Good morning in finish: Hyvää päivää |
| 21:01 |
jordan4ibanez |
Vokseli? |
| 21:02 |
runs |
In esperanto: Bonan matenon |
| 21:02 |
runs |
I propose to use Esperanto |
| 21:06 |
runs |
In esperanto Minetest = Minaprovo |
| 21:08 |
MTDiscord |
<josiah_wi> minemod |
| 21:09 |
MTDiscord |
<josiah_wi> https://www.minemod.net/ whelp |
| 21:11 |
Zughy[m] |
I'm in favour of Kuutio |
| 21:15 |
Zughy[m] |
It'd stick right after you tell people "it's the Finnish word for cube", so they'll go " oooooh!", with also the feeling they know some Finnish now (well, one word, but you get what I mean) |
| 21:17 |
Zughy[m] |
I also suggest to ban runz after such a comment right after someone had told the author passed away |
| 21:17 |
Zughy[m] |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/12928#issuecomment-1546996687 |
| 21:23 |
jordan4ibanez |
That is ultra extremely disrespectful |
| 21:26 |
celeron55 |
we can now do a thought experiment |
| 21:26 |
celeron55 |
can one come up with a realistic path through which Minetest would change its name to Kuutio, and what would that path be |
| 21:26 |
celeron55 |
like, does it begin with a renewed forum poll? is it just me buying the domain, committing the change to github and declaring that's the way it is now, deal with it? |
| 21:27 |
jordan4ibanez |
Okay well let us see here |
| 21:27 |
celeron55 |
there's no process for this as it's a thing that generally, in any project, essentially never happens |
| 21:28 |
jordan4ibanez |
Yes precisely. I think, the fist step here is, every core developer should give the input on the name change. Next, the forum post should be made to declare the change. Finally, the Minetest discord should be notified about the change. |
| 21:29 |
jordan4ibanez |
These steps should be taken before any other steps are even considered |
| 21:29 |
jordan4ibanez |
Before change, it is best to have knowledge of the change to not be blindsided |
| 21:30 |
Pexin |
really seems like any new name should not be simply a single common word, in any language |
| 21:31 |
jordan4ibanez |
Don't be like me and just go changing names willy nilly, people will be like, why am I in kuutio? What is kuutio?? |
| 21:31 |
Zughy[m] |
celeron55: it depends, are we sticking with Kuutio? If so, probably the first thing you want to do is buy the domain to avoid a second minetest.org scenario |
| 21:32 |
rubenwardy |
domains are already taken |
| 21:32 |
MTDiscord |
<savilli> Looks like there are no free kuutio.* domain, take it into consideration |
| 21:32 |
celeron55 |
i'm not set on any name |
| 21:32 |
rubenwardy |
once we get the new domain, we can set up redirects. Google has a form to tell them when you move everything from one domain to another |
| 21:32 |
celeron55 |
basic words in any language are super likely to have all the domains taken, it's what you get when formulating a name that way |
| 21:33 |
jordan4ibanez |
Is Vokseli.net taken? |
| 21:33 |
rubenwardy |
.net is a bad tld for us, best to use .org or .com |
| 21:34 |
jordan4ibanez |
Well okay then, is vokseli.org taken? As this is an organization not a company |
| 21:34 |
Zughy[m] |
according to the list rubenwardy posted a few hours ago, the next step is "a small group of people come up with names and then test them. Focus groups would be better than a survey as people don't know what they want" |
| 21:34 |
rubenwardy |
although you'd probably want to get all the main ones to avoid an .org scenario |
| 21:34 |
runs |
I freak out. Ban me because I ask someone to retake the PR? |
| 21:35 |
celeron55 |
runs: don't worry about it. just try to understand many people don't like you demanding PR progress from the dead |
| 21:36 |
runs |
I will delete the message, but that was not my intention. |
| 21:36 |
Zughy[m] |
rubenwardy: who should that group be? What if we create an issue on GitHub where people propose names? So that outsiders too can have a saying |
| 21:37 |
jordan4ibanez |
That is a great idea |
| 21:37 |
runs |
Not another PR no. There are already 1100. Better a regulated contest. |
| 21:38 |
celeron55 |
when considering the word "vokseli" vs. "kuutio" in how they sound to me as a finnish native speaker, i'd say "vokseli" sounds very nerdy and like a mathematics lesson. "kuutio" sounds very ordinary and approachable, but not plain - it has some mystery to it |
| 21:38 |
jordan4ibanez |
A forum post linking to it, GreenXenith can post an announcement on the Discord linking to it as well |
| 21:39 |
Zughy[m] |
I can regulate the issue, runs. The important thing is to set a rule, like: only comment with the name you're proposing, and you can comment three times top |
| 21:39 |
celeron55 |
(that's probably because vokseli is a more direct loan word) |
| 21:39 |
jordan4ibanez |
Hmm I see, well I suppose to create a game in the engine you must be very nerdy and mathematical so perhaps that is more fitting? |
| 21:39 |
runs |
blocko is taken |
| 21:39 |
runs |
It must be an almost original name because the registration issue will be difficult. |
| 21:41 |
celeron55 |
one thing i think you'll have to be prepared for is to essentially give me (with a small number of minetest staff) essentially license to pick a name and grab the domains once it seems so to me and the said group that a name has enough acceptance |
| 21:41 |
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| 21:41 |
celeron55 |
if a name is publicly announced before taking domains and stuff, an ill intentioned person could get the domains and start playing other games with us |
| 21:42 |
Zughy[m] |
Fine for me |
| 21:42 |
MTDiscord |
<savilli> Probably every single word is taken, need to combine two words |
| 21:42 |
jordan4ibanez |
KuutioVokseli :P |
| 21:42 |
jordan4ibanez |
Math block, mysterious block |
| 21:42 |
jordan4ibanez |
Or vice versa actually |
| 21:43 |
MTDiscord |
<savilli> Terrible |
| 21:43 |
MTDiscord |
<numzero> too much like QtVoxeli... |
| 21:44 |
jordan4ibanez |
Damn I've been KIA. lohkosuunnittelu? |
| 21:44 |
jordan4ibanez |
It is very hard to make a small name in Finnish |
| 21:44 |
MTDiscord |
<numzero> I agree with c55 that the name doesn’t need to be obvious. i.e. no “voxel” or “cube” or likewise in it |
| 21:45 |
jordan4ibanez |
Voxelua? |
| 21:45 |
rubenwardy |
luatic |
| 21:46 |
jordan4ibanez |
You're going to give Lars a big head |
| 21:47 |
MTDiscord |
<numzero> and add that “open”, “libre”, “free” (suggested somewhere above) aren’t good name parts either IMO, they suggest a clone too much |
| 21:49 |
MTDiscord |
<numzero> on “Kuutio”, um... clearly better than “Minetest” |
| 21:49 |
runs |
luatic is very similar to lunatic :-D |
| 21:49 |
rubenwardy |
how do you pronounce Kuutio? |
| 21:50 |
rubenwardy |
I suppose google would help me there |
| 21:50 |
runs |
I am going to propose "kreiblokon" which means to craft a block in Esperanto. |
| 21:51 |
runs |
that no one steals my idea |
| 21:51 |
runs |
kreibloko |
| 21:52 |
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| 21:52 |
runs |
KK would be the acronym |
| 21:52 |
runs |
the logo would be two KK's joined together in some way |
| 21:53 |
rubenwardy |
yeah let's not |
| 21:53 |
runs |
KreiBloko |
| 21:53 |
runs |
sounds good |
| 21:55 |
runs |
KB better, cos KK can be confused with the racist KKK :-D |
| 21:56 |
runs |
good evening and ciao I'm going to start working on the design |
| 22:09 |
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| 22:12 |
MTDiscord |
<savilli> Finnish words are hard to combine for me, I did my best and ended with "lohikuutio", which apparently means cubed salmon. |
| 22:12 |
Zughy[m] |
so shall I proceed with the issue? |
| 22:12 |
MTDiscord |
<savilli> Sure |
| 22:33 |
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| 23:03 |
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| 23:05 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> I mentioned earlier that id rather have a completely unrelated word to voxels as a name than something lame like "blockmaker" in any language |
| 23:05 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> err... "word completely unrelated to voxels"* my brain jumbled those words |
| 23:06 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> I dont see a lot of engines that self-describe with their name |
| 23:09 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> Suppose that this engine, in the future, eventually decoupled the voxel renderer from the rest of the engine to form a more general game engine with a hyper-optimized voxel rendering module. Having a voxel-related name would be problematic :] |
| 23:11 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> It may be wise to not repeat the same mistake of self-describing in case it changes later. "Minetest" was accurate in 2010, after all. |
| 23:16 |
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| 23:43 |
Zughy[m] |
Due to the lack of feedback, I've proceeded. If you think it should be unpinned, please do #13510 |
| 23:43 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/13510 -- A different name for Minetest |
| 23:45 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> I recommend making a note to encourage names outside of "voxel" nature |
| 23:49 |
pgimeno |
would someone do me the favour of adding "Terraforma" for me? I left Github |
| 23:49 |
Zughy[m] |
GreenXenith: done |
| 23:50 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> Awesome, thanks |
| 23:51 |
Zughy[m] |
pgimeno: done |
| 23:51 |
pgimeno |
tyvm |
| 23:54 |
MTDiscord |
<savilli> Here we go |
