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| 08:30 |
MTDiscord |
<Andrey01> Is #12828 actually approved or not now? Yet there were few reviews and generally people didn't express anything against except Desour |
| 08:30 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/12828 -- Add vector variation for ContentFeatures 'visual_scale' property. by Andrey2470T |
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| 16:24 |
celeron55_ |
what's the core team's opinion on this? https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/13326#issuecomment-1469968434 |
| 16:34 |
rubenwardy |
I support it, as said in my comment previously: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/13326#issuecomment-1468907385 |
| 16:38 |
MTDiscord |
<MisterE> Cooler heads prevailed, yay |
| 16:47 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> We have a content warning flag system on CDB; something that parallels that on the server list could work well. In fact, if they are similar enough, then we can sync the two systems, e.g. game.conf/mod.conf could contain the flags and we could auto-populate both CDB and serverlist listings from those by default. |
| 16:48 |
celeron55_ |
or... could just add a line here, grabbing a manual setting to be sent https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/29d2b2ccd06cdd831a7fac66928bfa612003945c/src/serverlist.cpp#L52 |
| 16:51 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> Personally, I've considered making filtering proxies to the serverlist anyway. It won't work for everyone, but likewise, there is no single solution that will hit EVERYONE's needs anyway. We will probably want some things that are simple and central, and other things that are more flexible but require people demanding them to take more responsibility. |
| 16:51 |
MTDiscord |
<MisterE> Roller's nodecore app filters for the nodecore game 🙂 |
| 16:52 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> For the "warning flags" solution, it makes me wonder how we'll enforce that flags for servers match actual content, i.e. we'll still get reports about servers that are mislabeled. Would we force labels centrally? Would we ban servers, contingent on them applying the labels themselves? |
| 16:53 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> Heh, I actually run some "adults preferred" servers. The servers do not contain content that's objectionable to children, but children are (often) considered objectionable to the general tone of the server 😏 |
| 16:54 |
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| 16:55 |
celeron55_ |
well, most likely there will be multiple sources for the flags in the long run |
| 16:55 |
celeron55_ |
that doesn't mean it will be badly designed, it just means the information can come from multiple sources |
| 16:56 |
MTDiscord |
<MisterE> For enforcement, that is why my suggestion, I believe is the right answer in the long term. Enforcing flags will be very difficult. Thankfully, its not pressing since it seems trusting server owners' good will will be sufficient in this case. |
| 16:56 |
celeron55_ |
we don't currently need enforcement. server admins are largely co-operative |
| 16:57 |
MTDiscord |
<MisterE> Hopefully by the time we need to implement my suggestion, we will have more people to help moderate it. Maybe not for another decade. |
| 16:57 |
celeron55_ |
and basing flags automatically based on content doesn't work every time anyway. a server might want to ban kids even while content wise it's a bog standard minetest_game or whatever |
| 16:57 |
MTDiscord |
<MisterE> Yes, for now we can continue to rely on owners' good will, which has worked until now |
| 16:58 |
celeron55_ |
if some server that's inappropriate for kids doesn't set the appropriate flag, then it might even just be subject to a server list ban |
| 17:00 |
celeron55_ |
i think the source of the flag is actually the smaller question |
| 17:00 |
celeron55_ |
the bigger one is how should the client act based on the flags |
| 17:05 |
MTDiscord |
<MisterE> Obviously android should hide by default |
| 17:06 |
MTDiscord |
<MisterE> And the question is how to not make it "accessible to children" while still allowing enabling it by people who know what they are doing |
| 17:08 |
MTDiscord |
<MisterE> Probably just a setting in the settingtypes, right? A list of serverlist flags to enable/disable? |
| 17:09 |
proller |
jktufnjh |
| 17:10 |
Desour_ |
you could ask once after installation if the user is over 18 years old, and then hide the setting in advanced settings. if an adult installs minetest for a child, they can then choose once |
| 17:11 |
celeron55_ |
sounds reasonable |
| 17:12 |
MTDiscord |
<MisterE> That seems... overengineered |
| 17:13 |
celeron55_ |
well for a start i'd just leave the one-time dialog out and just have the advanced setting |
| 17:13 |
MTDiscord |
<MisterE> Like it would raise eyebrows |
| 17:13 |
MTDiscord |
<MisterE> Re the one tim dialogue |
| 17:15 |
MTDiscord |
<MisterE> For the advanced setting, should it come prepackaged with 18+ hidden or shown. Imo hidden, its easy enough to show it. |
| 17:15 |
MTDiscord |
<MisterE> *change it |
| 17:17 |
celeron55_ |
some might say it's an obvious choice but idk really |
| 17:17 |
MTDiscord |
<MisterE> Another thing to consider is other severlist flags... |
| 17:17 |
MTDiscord |
<MisterE> They could all be added at once |
| 17:18 |
MTDiscord |
<MisterE> -minigame -survival -original -violence This could help with searching |
| 17:19 |
celeron55_ |
i think the only obvious thing here is: we need to give the _tools_ to server admins and parents to avoid having kids in the wrong places. the default setting value is only that, the default value; it's beyond the goal of having the tool |
| 17:19 |
rubenwardy |
I'd suggest an adult-only flag and then support for a list of content warnings. The adult-only flag allows server owners to say they don't want children regardless of the content. The content flags allow parents/players to make an informed choice |
| 17:20 |
celeron55_ |
well, another obvious thing is probably google play's terms and conditions |
| 17:20 |
MTDiscord |
<MisterE> Whatever default value we choose can be changed later if needed |
| 17:20 |
rubenwardy |
On Android, all packages with any content warning are hidden by default |
| 17:20 |
rubenwardy |
although maybe this isn't necessary now that the app is PEGI 12 and not 3 |
| 17:21 |
MTDiscord |
<MisterE> It would be nice not to hide exile on android |
| 17:21 |
MTDiscord |
<MisterE> Despite its content warnings |
| 17:22 |
rubenwardy |
looks like Alcohol and Tobacco requires PEGI 16 |
| 17:26 |
MTDiscord |
<MisterE> Oof. Well, you can still enable it in settings so whatever |
| 17:30 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> Re: enforcement, we will always eventually need enforcement of some kind (or at least, situations will arise that force us to address the question). It doesn't hurt to think about it in advance. Re: automatic flagging, just do it like we do with other settings: set it explicitly if you want an override, otherwise try to have a sane default. Pulling it from content is probably the sanest default. |
| 17:48 |
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| 23:05 |
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| 23:22 |
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| 23:27 |
MisterE123 |
I just found this, Irrlicht lua bindings: https://irrlua.sourceforge.net/license.html |
| 23:37 |
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