| Time |
Nick |
Message |
| 00:16 |
|
Baytuch joined #minetest-dev |
| 00:24 |
|
YuGiOhJCJ joined #minetest-dev |
| 00:41 |
|
Baytuch joined #minetest-dev |
| 00:46 |
|
Baytuch joined #minetest-dev |
| 00:59 |
|
diceLibrarian joined #minetest-dev |
| 01:54 |
|
kilbith joined #minetest-dev |
| 01:55 |
|
Baytuch joined #minetest-dev |
| 02:16 |
|
Baytuch joined #minetest-dev |
| 04:00 |
|
MTDiscord joined #minetest-dev |
| 05:12 |
|
calcul0n_ joined #minetest-dev |
| 05:41 |
|
YuGiOhJCJ joined #minetest-dev |
| 05:49 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> kilbith: emerge area itself isn't sufficient, you'd need a 2nd method to tell the server to send the blocks to clients |
| 05:56 |
|
YuGiOhJCJ joined #minetest-dev |
| 06:31 |
MTDiscord |
<x2048> Client needs to communicate POV change to the server, which the server may choose to accept (RTS game) or ignore (FPS game). Occlusion culling happens in map.cpp and is fully parameterized, from what I see. |
| 06:35 |
celeron55 |
Let's get that included into the protocol changes in #12690 |
| 06:35 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/12690 -- New mapblocks-for-sending selection algorithm by celeron55 |
| 06:37 |
celeron55 |
it basically deletes the implementation in current master anyway so please don't force me into a super annoying rebase |
| 06:40 |
celeron55 |
to get rid of the effect dhown in the video you just need to feed the current camera's correct values to ClientMap::updateCamera |
| 06:40 |
celeron55 |
shown* |
| 06:40 |
celeron55 |
very simple |
| 07:03 |
celeron55 |
kilbith: in that the server already knows about all the cameras, right? so it doesn't actually need changes in the protocol but instead can be done like i wrote here at the end. however there's no actual support for it obviously, it's just the fact that the protocol doesn't need further extensions https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/12690#issuecomment-1214130067 |
| 08:05 |
|
appguru joined #minetest-dev |
| 09:41 |
|
appguru joined #minetest-dev |
| 10:14 |
|
Fixer joined #minetest-dev |
| 10:21 |
|
HuguesRoss joined #minetest-dev |
| 10:41 |
rubenwardy |
would be nice to have reviews for #7865 it's the second oldest PR |
| 10:41 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/7865 -- Add crosshair support for Android by srifqi |
| 11:57 |
kilbith |
celeron55: cameras are shared in the game's environment, both clients and servers know about them; and exactly what x2048 said, I need to experiment with different params in Map::isOccluded |
| 12:19 |
|
Guest37100 joined #minetest-dev |
| 12:21 |
celeron55 |
kilbith: you do realize you have two problems, not one? |
| 12:22 |
celeron55 |
only the client side problem is visible in your video |
| 12:23 |
celeron55 |
they are solved at different places, not the same place |
| 12:26 |
kilbith |
I do not realize because I haven't dug into occlusion culling (yet), maybe x2048 could take this over while I focus on the API |
| 12:26 |
kilbith |
this PR will need plural collaboration anyway |
| 12:28 |
rubenwardy |
the confusion may also come from there being server-side occlusion culling |
| 12:28 |
rubenwardy |
well, frustum culling |
| 13:18 |
|
proller joined #minetest-dev |
| 13:32 |
celeron55 |
it's also able to do occlusion culling on the server. but none of that matters in what kilbith is seeing and i'll gladly fix that part on top of my block sending PR |
| 13:49 |
rubenwardy |
yeah |
| 13:50 |
|
Alias joined #minetest-dev |
| 14:38 |
|
Desour joined #minetest-dev |
| 14:40 |
MTDiscord |
<x2048> rubenwardy: I'm taking a look at android crosshair, but I can't test it |
| 14:48 |
kilbith |
don't waste your time |
| 14:48 |
kilbith |
android is a cheap platform |
| 14:53 |
MTDiscord |
<IhrFussel> Doesn't change the fact that it is BY FAR the most used mobile OS in the world....without Android version MT would have not even 50% of its playerbase |
| 15:05 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> Quantity & quality both matter, and Android players necessarily have a lower quality experience due to their limited devices (barring Android laptops which are an abomination on their own) |
| 15:10 |
rubenwardy |
so do crappy laptops, running at 10FPS |
| 15:11 |
rubenwardy |
Android is our biggest platform, both in number of users and level of neglect. Would be nice to give it some more love |
| 15:11 |
rubenwardy |
unfortunately, the Android NDK is hard to love |
| 15:15 |
kilbith |
we are doing too much efforts for people who could just spend a few bucks on upgrading |
| 15:16 |
kilbith |
and it's not our responsibility if people from cheap countries like Malaysia or India cannot play |
| 15:30 |
MTDiscord |
<x2048> I left my comments in #7865, simple code review. |
| 15:30 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/7865 -- Add crosshair support for Android by srifqi |
| 16:30 |
kilbith |
celeron55: thinking back about occlusion, it should occludes depending on the active camera actually |
| 16:31 |
kilbith |
and you probably could take off all these params in the occlusion check calls |
| 16:34 |
MTDiscord |
<MisterE> kilbith, I think you are wrong. As a server owner, I come across quality players who are on Android often. True, not all features of all minetest games will work well with android. that's not our responsibility. We should however make sure that an up to date android port exists and works: many minetest games do work, pretty well, on android. I even kinda want to make a blockbomber android app (a fork of the minetest app, with a |
| 16:34 |
MTDiscord |
blockbomber serverlist) at some point |
| 16:37 |
MTDiscord |
<MisterE> And keeping minetest compatible with old hardware is extremely important. Not all new features must be supported on old hardware, but the game must run. So many people cannot spent a few bucks, for a multitude of reasons, and they actually make up the majority of our playerbase. (kids with only a chromebook, poor people in disadvantaged countries, android users, etc.) its wonderful that they have access to this game, it would be a |
| 16:37 |
MTDiscord |
shame to take that away. |
| 16:39 |
kilbith |
what if I don't like kids, poor people and android users :] |
| 16:40 |
MTDiscord |
<MisterE> Who cares if shadows and godrays work on such devices, but they care a lot whether they can log in. If you want to make a feature that lets servers prevent players with disabled shaders from joining, sure, then the responsibility is on the game authors and server owners again. It is our responsibility to make the engine compatible |
| 16:41 |
MTDiscord |
<MisterE> kilbith, then you will kindy restrain yourself from expressing your biases in code in PRs to our community's engine, rather, keep them contained to games you make and servers you run please |
| 16:41 |
kilbith |
being poor is more a mentality than an actual circumstance |
| 16:42 |
MTDiscord |
<MisterE> That is a separate discussion, for the minetest channel perhaps? |
| 16:42 |
rubenwardy |
dude no, please keep this bullshit to yourself |
| 16:45 |
schwarzwald[m] |
Perhaps there should be a document somewhere explicitly stating the goals of the project, including the need for backwards compatibility for example. I suppose all the core devs would have to come to some agreement for that to happen, but it might also be a useful thing for the core devs to discuss. |
| 16:45 |
schwarzwald[m] |
Disagreeing about something and not talking about it just results in problems down the road. |
| 16:46 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> There is no need for backwards compat - the question just is when it gets broken |
| 16:54 |
celeron55 |
MT doesn't have android support just so that it can be removed |
| 16:54 |
celeron55 |
that's silly |
| 16:54 |
celeron55 |
but it's understandable it gets little developer interest. i don't like to do anything about it either as i'm not an android user |
| 16:55 |
schwarzwald[m] |
All my brothers and I agree that the Android UI is pretty hard to use in comparison to playing on a PC, but if you don't have a PC then it's all you've got! |
| 16:55 |
rubenwardy |
I'm an Android user, but I don't game on Android |
| 16:56 |
rubenwardy |
The Android UI has a lot of room for improvement. It's also possible to use gamepads and keyboard/mouse on Android, just not Minetest specifically |
| 16:56 |
rubenwardy |
well ,you can use keyboard but not gamepad or mouse |
| 16:56 |
schwarzwald[m] |
I've played on Android. Any kind of PVP is unplayable on Android with the touch interface in our experience, but exploring and building is great. |
| 16:57 |
MTDiscord |
<savilli> rubenwardy: didn't you develop smth for Android? |
| 16:57 |
schwarzwald[m] |
Splitting stacks in the crafting formspec is notoriously difficult and undocumented. |
| 16:57 |
rubenwardy |
yes, my job is also Android development currently |
| 16:57 |
schwarzwald[m] |
I've had to explain it to multiple of my friends, and I can never remember the details myself. |
| 16:57 |
rubenwardy |
but I do Android app development using the SDK, not C++ game dev using the NDK |
| 16:58 |
MTDiscord |
<savilli> then you have skills to test minetest on Android at least |
| 16:58 |
MTDiscord |
<savilli> I don't play on Android either, but I got some free time and old memories to make some fixes |
| 16:59 |
rubenwardy |
yeah I do. I could probably learn the NDK too but it's a huge migraine of a thing |
| 17:00 |
Desour |
apropos culling, did you know that we could do 1/6 more frustum culling? https://github.com/Desour/minetest/tree/frustum_planes |
| 17:00 |
schwarzwald[m] |
BTW, if anyone here has used an R-Tree or similar data structure in an application before, I want to talk to you. |
| 17:00 |
Desour |
ca. 1/6 * |
| 17:03 |
Desour |
(there are some blinking mapblocks at the edges of the screen when turning around fast though. I guess the planes from irrlicht are lagging behind one frame or something) |
| 17:59 |
sfan5 |
most of the improvements android needs could be developed on desktop by just enabling the touch gui |
| 18:09 |
|
cranezhou joined #minetest-dev |
| 18:13 |
|
Desour_ joined #minetest-dev |
| 19:11 |
|
natewrench joined #minetest-dev |
| 20:11 |
|
TaokiLaptop joined #minetest-dev |
| 20:20 |
|
Taoki joined #minetest-dev |
| 20:46 |
|
proller joined #minetest-dev |
| 21:35 |
|
HuguesRoss joined #minetest-dev |
| 21:36 |
|
HuguesRoss5 joined #minetest-dev |
| 21:43 |
|
diceLibrarian joined #minetest-dev |
| 21:49 |
|
HuguesRoss5 joined #minetest-dev |
| 22:36 |
|
panwolfram joined #minetest-dev |
| 23:58 |
|
AliasAlreadyTake joined #minetest-dev |
| 23:59 |
lebruhgamer[m] |
<kilbith> "and it's not our responsibility..." <- are you having some kind of grudge against people or some contributors in those countries or something that you intentionally specifically mention those countries as example?? ? |
