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IRC log for #minetest-dev, 2020-11-05

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:01 kilbith https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swfWAO7H_lA
00:01 kilbith how not be bored during the lockdown
00:02 MTDiscord <J​onathon> private video?
00:02 kilbith oops
00:03 kilbith public now
00:04 MTDiscord <J​onathon> looks very nice 👍
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03:18 MTDiscord <G​enshin> Neat
04:42 MTDiscord <L​one_Wolf> Guns stopped working after I added the PR. Gonna try the latest version
04:42 MTDiscord <L​one_Wolf> *version of it
04:55 MTDiscord <L​one_Wolf> Yep, fixed in latest version of the PR
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12:51 zughy[m] declarations: do you prefer the former or the latter? https://i.imgur.com/wVG31xL.png
12:56 sfan5 there's a third option: v3d rotation(0,0,0);
12:56 sfan5 I prefer the = v3f(0, 0, 0); notation, I don't think our code style covers this though
13:25 rubenwardy I prefer the third option
13:26 zughy[m] am I wrong or the bone should be always declared? https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/src/script/lua_api/l_object.cpp#L593
13:29 sfan5 I think it can be empty, but don't ask me for what reason
14:04 MTDiscord <J​ordach> zughy: don't - "" is equivalent to the Node's true origin
14:05 MTDiscord <J​ordach> not all ActiveObjects will contain an armature bone
14:05 MTDiscord <J​ordach> like sprites
14:10 zughy[m] thanks Jordach :)
14:25 MTDiscord <J​ordach> i'm deadly aware of node origins
14:25 MTDiscord <J​ordach> t. wrote first person attachments
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17:32 pgimeno aren't we in C++11? isn't v3d rotation{0, 0, 0} valid?
17:32 pgimeno v3f*
17:36 nerzhul we are in C++11, but i think we can bump to C++14 at a point
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18:16 sfan5 if you ask me {} initializers are the ugliest syntax the C++ commitee has come up wtih
18:16 sfan5 with*
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18:23 rubenwardy including [[]] annotations?
18:34 sfan5 I guess those are second place
18:34 nerzhul the annotations are omg
18:38 Krock will merge game#2761 and game#2772 in 10 minutes
18:38 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/2761 -- more accurate russian translation. by CyberDonk3y
18:38 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/2772 -- Slovak translations by daretmavi
18:42 Krock rubenwardy: is this change intentional? https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/10547/commits/0945d7e8f3c63
18:47 Krock merging
18:49 rubenwardy yes
18:50 Krock it reverts the original idea
18:50 rubenwardy which wouldn't have worked anyway
18:51 Krock how come? it seemed like a good approach
18:51 rubenwardy because the rotation is sent in the interact packet
18:52 Krock badly hacked clients could still be tricked this way
18:52 Krock it also makes sense to have the rotation sent together with the interact so that the exact rotation is known at the time
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19:04 MTDiscord <G​enshin> sometimes during lag anti-cheat accuses players from interacting with far away things
19:05 Krock that's already compensated IIRC
19:05 MTDiscord <G​enshin> that's good to hear 🙂
19:05 Krock if not, it's as simple as velocity * avg_lag_time
19:06 Krock meanwhile players can still noclip and fly everywhere
19:07 MTDiscord <G​enshin> because it's handled client side 🙃
19:08 MTDiscord <G​enshin> best counter for forced flight is behavioral tracking
19:08 Krock calculating the distance to the next walkable node
19:09 MTDiscord <G​enshin> sounds good, but what if the player is jumping?
19:09 Krock and never allow Y to increase in velocity when there's no node nearby
19:09 MTDiscord <G​enshin> or holding sneak to prevent falling?
19:09 Krock hence "walkable node nearby check"
19:10 MTDiscord <G​enshin> yeah, it would be a solution
19:10 Krock expensive to calculate, tho
19:10 MTDiscord <G​enshin> how about gravity?
19:10 MTDiscord <G​enshin> indeed expensive
19:10 Krock gravity is always negative, so the Y speed must decrease each step
19:11 Krock no such checks when gravity is 0
19:12 MTDiscord <o​neplustwo> how often do you think the check should be applied?
19:13 Krock every second, perhaps?
19:14 MTDiscord <o​neplustwo> how about this:
19:14 MTDiscord <o​neplustwo> you check one player at a time
19:14 MTDiscord <o​neplustwo> every 0.1 seconds
19:14 MTDiscord <o​neplustwo> shouldn't be too bad
19:14 MTDiscord <o​neplustwo> then you won't have a lag spike every one second
19:14 Krock though the range of nodes to check increases by velocity. if this isn't controlled well, velocities of 100m/s will cause enormous node lookups
19:16 pgimeno what's enormous here?
19:16 pgimeno 100m/s is 1.67 m/frame
19:17 Krock pgimeno: it's about server-side checks per player, per step
19:17 pgimeno ah ok
19:17 MTDiscord <o​neplustwo> when you fly, your y velocity is pretty uniform, right?
19:17 MTDiscord <o​neplustwo> contrary to when you jump
19:17 MTDiscord <o​neplustwo> could you apply that somehow?
19:18 Krock right, the center of the node sphere to check would move towards the player's moving direction
19:23 MTDiscord <G​enshin> also vertical behavior depends on minimum speed times speed physics override value
19:24 MTDiscord <G​enshin> when falling, y velocity keeps decreasing past maximum speed till halted by unloaded blocks
19:25 MTDiscord <G​enshin> when flying, y velocity drops and stays the  same less than or equal to the max speed that a player can move
19:26 MTDiscord <G​enshin> walkable node nearby check is a good way to track forced flight hovering behavior
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21:45 celeron55 anti-cheat is kind of interesting because it forces the question of what actually are the rules in the game
21:46 celeron55 are the rules really the frame-by-frame physics or are the physics just a weird way to implement a simpler set of rules
22:39 MTDiscord <G​enshin> The only rules in place at the moment is permissive free movement (ie: fast, fly, noclip), limited interaction distances, and group-based interaction limits
22:40 MTDiscord <G​enshin> Other rules depend on a game
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