| Time |
Nick |
Message |
| 01:07 |
|
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| 01:12 |
MTDiscord |
<Genshin> Mfw that PR would get shut down by you know who for reposting screenie after a removal |
| 01:17 |
pmp-p |
if interfering with a CoC it should have been closed in the first place not edited, and i don't know any of the protagonist or why |
| 05:57 |
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| 06:36 |
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| 07:12 |
celeron55 |
well that's textbook bullying by kilbith |
| 07:12 |
celeron55 |
i sure hope paramat can take it because i guess we can't afford not accepting kilbith's PRs |
| 08:00 |
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| 08:55 |
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| 09:52 |
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| 09:52 |
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| 09:54 |
MTDiscord |
<appguru> TBH we could afford not accepting that specific PR |
| 09:55 |
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| 10:16 |
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| 10:28 |
zughy[m] |
tbh there's no need to be a dick, behaviours like those only separate the community. He thinks he's an idiot or idk? Fine, just don't go with zingers in the very PR. He thinks he's that bad and a lot of people agree with him? Contact Celeron |
| 10:40 |
pgimeno |
I'd just shut down that PR if it were in my hands. |
| 10:43 |
pgimeno |
Accepting it would send a very poisonous message to the community. |
| 10:52 |
Gael-de-Sailly |
exactly it's not something to support |
| 10:53 |
Gael-de-Sailly |
and the author is free to re-post it without the aggressive message if he wants his feature to be accepted |
| 10:58 |
Gael-de-Sailly |
these disputes are so boring... do they think about the many other people that don't want to see their personal quarrels? IMO this is a very selfish behaviour, and not only towards the person he insulted |
| 10:58 |
Gael-de-Sailly |
it's part of what is getting me away from Minetest the recent months |
| 11:10 |
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| 11:27 |
Krock |
Call to deprecated function 'get_velocity', please use 'get_player_velocity' |
| 11:27 |
Krock |
it's kinda out of order. patching soon... |
| 11:31 |
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| 11:36 |
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| 11:45 |
pgimeno |
maybe this one would be good? https://www.contributor-covenant.org/ |
| 11:53 |
Krock |
will push https://krock-works.uk.to/u/patches/0001-Fix-incorrect-deprecation-hints.patch in 10 minutes, rubenwardy |
| 11:54 |
Krock |
pgimeno: that looks like a common sense CoC. I don't know how helpful that would be |
| 11:56 |
pgimeno |
pinging rubenwardy who seems to be also interested in having a CoC |
| 11:58 |
pgimeno |
how useful would it be? well, if there's nothing, there's nothing to stop behaviour like that in #10580 |
| 11:58 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/10580 -- Add new standalone file-browser in Lua by kilbith |
| 12:00 |
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| 12:01 |
pyrollo |
Hi Krock & pgimeno, I guess you refer to that https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/10580#issuecomment-719982875 |
| 12:02 |
pgimeno |
more specifically to https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/7883281/97789515-6b6ee580-1bc1-11eb-8b50-34fd1e4026c2.png |
| 12:02 |
Krock |
pushing patch |
| 12:10 |
MTDiscord |
<srinivas> i may be a bit slow, but what is wrong with fsck? isnt it fs check? |
| 12:11 |
pgimeno |
"oh fsck you!" is a way to write the F word without actually using it |
| 12:11 |
MTDiscord |
<srinivas> oh dear |
| 12:34 |
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| 13:09 |
celeron55 |
so people agree with me if i'm closing this PR with the option for kilbith to create it again without the aggressive language |
| 13:10 |
celeron55 |
i'm fairly sure kilbith will just start doing some childish tricks until he's banned again and then complain about being banned |
| 13:10 |
celeron55 |
but eh |
| 13:10 |
celeron55 |
let's see |
| 13:11 |
pmp-p |
moderation should be made in private |
| 13:11 |
pmp-p |
first talk to the guy and cool things off if possible |
| 13:11 |
pmp-p |
remind him not to mess forum/life and code |
| 13:12 |
pmp-p |
then take the close decision with yout pairs |
| 13:12 |
pmp-p |
your* |
| 13:12 |
celeron55 |
kilbith is on his second term after already being banned for a year due to persistent bad behavior and many chances to improve |
| 13:12 |
celeron55 |
trying to solve this in private won't work |
| 13:12 |
pmp-p |
hmm recidivist |
| 13:15 |
celeron55 |
frankly the only thing that will work is a permanent ban |
| 13:16 |
pmp-p |
well i don't like recidivist, from xp they can undermine a whole community, slowly but surely |
| 13:18 |
pmp-p |
some people thrive on conflicts but sometime it's just one guy to one other that have undisclosed history |
| 13:18 |
pmp-p |
which kind do you think ? |
| 13:20 |
celeron55 |
i don't know, it seems to me kilbith generally has trouble being with people he thinks are lesser than himself |
| 13:20 |
celeron55 |
but i'm not a people person |
| 13:21 |
pmp-p |
well if your pairs come to the same conclusion as you about a *generic* bad behaviour, i'd say it needs serious mesure |
| 13:23 |
celeron55 |
paramat seems to be very magnetic towards being hated and in this case it gets completely out of hand |
| 13:25 |
pmp-p |
there was a story like that in micropython community |
| 13:25 |
celeron55 |
how did it end up? |
| 13:26 |
pmp-p |
badly ended losing the guy that really made the difference |
| 13:26 |
pmp-p |
like 50% of the code and good ideas |
| 13:26 |
celeron55 |
in this case both have made contributions for a long time |
| 13:29 |
pmp-p |
from a quick look it's seem both are getting money from MT directly or indirectly |
| 13:30 |
pmp-p |
so there really need to be a vote |
| 13:31 |
pmp-p |
some people may have bid on any of them for the continuation of MT |
| 13:31 |
sfan5 |
a vote on whether a contributor should be allowed to insult another one? |
| 13:32 |
ZoeS17 |
FWIW, that took me the better part of half an hour to understand what happened and only because I read it as file system check. There should be a way to permanently remove issues should that need to be a thing. |
| 13:32 |
pmp-p |
a vote on allowing people financially interested in MT to use forum |
| 13:33 |
pmp-p |
because obviously they are biased toward true community spirit |
| 13:33 |
pmp-p |
maybe keep and limit them on coding/contributing part |
| 13:36 |
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| 13:43 |
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| 13:45 |
pmp-p |
it also could be that some people that i don't know do not know how to switch seasons beetween "(serious) bugfix time" and "extend project" |
| 13:48 |
pmp-p |
that could lead to a very serious gap beetween users and dev/mainteners |
| 13:56 |
pmp-p |
having at the same time "hey that boat is sinking" and "give me more speed i want to go there asap" attitudes can really hurt morale of people trying to pump water out |
| 14:01 |
pmp-p |
people rarely gets a real reward for a bug fixed, so last question if both people are tough is : who really gets the job done ? |
| 14:10 |
MTDiscord |
<appguru> > because I read it as file system check same ^^ |
| 14:11 |
MTDiscord |
<appguru> anyways, please demand no more insults from kilbith |
| 14:11 |
* pmp-p |
do a harmless chkdsk_appguru :D |
| 14:13 |
MTDiscord |
<appguru> Just saw celeron handled it properly. |
| 14:20 |
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| 14:46 |
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| 14:47 |
kilbith |
celeron55: it is ironical you call my language as aggressive when paramat is constantly into personal attacks and heated arguments (and very little into contributing code actually) |
| 14:48 |
kilbith |
maybe if you were involved more into the community you'd see that and what people (including core-devs) genuinely think of him, especially on Discord |
| 14:49 |
MTDiscord |
<appguru> You're on Discord? |
| 14:50 |
MTDiscord |
<appguru> Anyways, we don't want that language here |
| 14:50 |
celeron55[m] |
<kilbith "maybe if you were involved more "> If you want to demote paramat, you're doing it completely wrong |
| 14:50 |
MTDiscord |
<appguru> And a PR is definitely the wrong place to express such sentiments |
| 14:51 |
kilbith |
celeron55[m]: if you weren't your courtier, it'd would take a short time before he gets impeached |
| 14:51 |
kilbith |
s/you/he |
| 14:51 |
MTDiscord |
<appguru> he ain't president duh |
| 14:52 |
MTDiscord |
<appguru> I'm not exactly a paramat fan either, but I would never insult him like this |
| 14:53 |
kilbith |
since when fsck is an insult |
| 14:53 |
MTDiscord |
<appguru> Especially not in a totally unrelated pull request |
| 14:53 |
MTDiscord |
<appguru> fsck alone is not; fsck_paramat is |
| 14:53 |
pmp-p |
i did not see fsck.png |
| 14:53 |
MTDiscord |
<appguru> I saw it but didn't get it at first ? |
| 14:56 |
pmp-p |
what i saw is merely a low insult, at least you could have added a preview box for images with an angry gnome as paramat.png |
| 14:57 |
MTDiscord |
<Lone_Wolf> I'd like to know what the intent behind that file was |
| 14:57 |
pmp-p |
if you want to be pointlessly rude, at least make people laugh |
| 14:57 |
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| 14:57 |
MTDiscord |
<appguru> I too like having silly tests |
| 14:57 |
MTDiscord |
<appguru> But not offensive ones |
| 14:58 |
kilbith |
next time I'll do a tech demo video with fancy effects to "fsck paramat" presented as nodes |
| 15:00 |
celeron55[m] |
The problem is, something silly for others can be a long lasting series of byllying to someone else. You don't want to be playing with such things |
| 15:00 |
celeron55[m] |
We're trying to be adults here |
| 15:01 |
ZoeS17 |
Ad hominems are never right, period. |
| 15:01 |
kilbith |
how long hmmmm has been bullying people? remind me |
| 15:01 |
celeron55[m] |
* The problem is, something silly for others can be a long lasting series of bullying to someone else. You don't want to be playing with such things |
| 15:01 |
pmp-p |
yeah keep it professionnal at least on code/pr side |
| 15:02 |
celeron55[m] |
hmmmm was just generally rude and didn't pick targets |
| 15:02 |
celeron55[m] |
Completely different |
| 15:02 |
kilbith |
well perhaps you have short memory |
| 15:02 |
kilbith |
RBA, me, some random contributors... |
| 15:03 |
celeron55[m] |
There is also a good chance hmmmm's behavior wouldn't be totally accepted today |
| 15:04 |
celeron55[m] |
Not that I really remember |
| 15:04 |
celeron55[m] |
But if he was like you imply |
| 15:05 |
kilbith |
it's just that we are opening the arms to the CoC cancer spreading |
| 15:05 |
celeron55[m] |
You are |
| 15:06 |
celeron55[m] |
I'm against it, but you make it extremely hard |
| 15:06 |
celeron55[m] |
Stop it |
| 15:06 |
MTDiscord |
<appguru> We wouldn't need CoCs in the first place if it wasn't for such incidents |
| 15:06 |
pgimeno |
^ |
| 15:07 |
MTDiscord |
<appguru> Paramat OFC needs to be equally reprimanded should he ever insult others like this, but TBH I haven't seen such behavior from him yet. |
| 15:08 |
pgimeno |
neither have I |
| 15:08 |
kilbith |
because it's more subtle than insults usually |
| 15:09 |
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| 15:09 |
kilbith |
or you're all naive and blind |
| 15:09 |
kilbith |
except rubenwardy |
| 15:09 |
Benrob0329[m] |
Paramat is very conservative with his development approach, this frustrates a lot of people. This does not justify passive aggressive comments or childish behavior. Issues need to be brought up specifically and in a professional way for things to change for the better. |
| 15:12 |
celeron55[m] |
paramat usually listens to reason. You just need to bother writing it down |
| 15:13 |
pgimeno |
kilbith: so what you're saying is that paramat does not cross the line of resorting to insults, good from him, it means he's being civilized in his behaviour |
| 15:13 |
kilbith |
yeah we waste a lot of time to convince one guy that no professional team would want anyway |
| 15:16 |
kilbith |
pgimeno: you never dealt with him directly afaik |
| 15:16 |
kilbith |
but anyway, it's not too important, as long as we ignore each other I'm fine |
| 15:19 |
pgimeno |
of course I've dealt with him, and disagreed with him, and the discussion turned heated, but at the end of the discussion, I was able to separate it from the person |
| 15:20 |
nerzhul |
unfortunately it's often the case, if you remember our nice weapon pass in the past :D |
| 15:22 |
celeron55[m] |
Using insults actually makes kilbith's problem worse, because then paramat limiting his involvement with issues and PRs would mean the aggressiveness was a way to solve the problem |
| 15:24 |
celeron55[m] |
I don't think many would like to allow insults to be succesfully used for anything |
| 15:25 |
celeron55[m] |
That's what I mean by this being the completely wrong way of doing anything |
| 15:27 |
Benrob0329[m] |
I would like to mention that kilbith's behavior is textbook toxicity. Shutting down people he doesn't like/feels are lesser, using passive aggression to push hate onto someone else, moving the blame to another source, moving the discussion to the behavior of others, being starkly nice in places he needs community support (namely the forums), etc. |
| 15:29 |
Benrob0329[m] |
I absolutely love his PRs, but his behavior is unprofessional at best. |
| 15:29 |
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| 15:30 |
celeron55[m] |
It's essy to see in kilbiths behabior that in the past he's gotten way too much done with the same kind of behavior |
| 15:30 |
celeron55[m] |
* It's easy to see in kilbiths behabior that in the past he's gotten way too much done with the same kind of behavior |
| 15:30 |
celeron55[m] |
* It's easy to see in kilbiths behavior that in the past he's gotten way too much done with the same kind of behavior |
| 15:30 |
celeron55[m] |
I'm typoing so much... |
| 15:30 |
celeron55[m] |
I'm blaming this touchscreen |
| 15:31 |
pgimeno |
I wouldn't be surprised if oldcoder started the same way... |
| 15:33 |
Benrob0329[m] |
Lets not demonize him either though, OC has other issues. |
| 15:33 |
pmp-p |
drama time is coding time wasted |
| 15:45 |
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| 15:50 |
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| 16:14 |
rubenwardy |
Krock: thanks for the fix, I did test it but didn't pay much attention apparently |
| 16:18 |
pyrollo |
I'm diving into SSCSM implementation... |
| 16:18 |
pyrollo |
And having a lot of questionings. |
| 16:19 |
pyrollo |
First of all.. that name is awful :) |
| 16:20 |
rubenwardy |
it is terribl |
| 16:21 |
pyrollo |
Something like Server Sent Script sounds better IMO (no "mod" concept, no "Lua", just ... server sent scripts :) ) |
| 16:22 |
pyrollo |
Another problem is the concurrency with actual CSM. Looks more difficult to keep both SS and CSM than replacing CSM with SSCSM. |
| 16:23 |
pyrollo |
According to what I read, removing CSM looks probable if SSCSM is implemented |
| 16:25 |
Krock |
rubenwardy: it's fine ^^ |
| 16:35 |
rubenwardy |
gosh, Irrlicht image scaling is terrible |
| 16:35 |
rubenwardy |
https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/2122943/97808673-251c9380-1c60-11eb-8031-8e4ffed68f49.png |
| 16:35 |
rubenwardy |
or maybe that's MT |
| 16:35 |
Krock |
https://imgflip.com/s/meme/Always-Has-Been.png |
| 16:37 |
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| 16:40 |
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| 16:46 |
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| 16:55 |
Krock |
#10458 - ready for review. fixes some dead keys. pretty easy to test |
| 16:55 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/10458 -- Chat Input: Allow more input keys by SmallJoker |
| 17:13 |
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| 17:24 |
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| 17:27 |
MTDiscord |
<Genshin> I agree with c55 regarding to closing that PR from JP and giving him a chance to make another one. It's better to make a PR without having to inslult anyone. If he still does the same thing then it will be his fault for not complying to conduct. |
| 17:28 |
MTDiscord |
<Genshin> and by he, i meant JP |
| 17:37 |
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| 18:24 |
pgimeno |
Krock: have you fixed accents?!? |
| 18:24 |
Krock |
no, I don't know how to fix those, but regular keys should work now |
| 18:25 |
pgimeno |
awwww |
| 18:25 |
Krock |
I mean the combine accents don't work yet: ^ and ~ " |
| 18:25 |
pgimeno |
áéíóú <- very used in Spanish |
| 18:26 |
rubenwardy |
over half of our team is international, yet our internationalisation support sucks a bit |
| 18:26 |
Krock |
question is whether those need combining characters or can be pressed directly using Shift/Alt/Ctrl combinations |
| 18:30 |
pgimeno |
no, no other combinations, there's an accent key dedicated to them for that purpose |
| 18:31 |
Krock |
then it should work |
| 18:33 |
pgimeno |
Krock: are you on Linux? if so, you can use 'setxkbmap es' to test with a Spanish keyboard. The key to the right of the L is Ñ, which works fine, and the one to the right of Ñ is an accent key, which should be combinable with any vowel. |
| 18:34 |
pgimeno |
But currently it outputs ’ in minetest. |
| 18:34 |
Krock |
yes I am. need to figure out the original xkbmap set first before testing this |
| 18:36 |
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| 18:47 |
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| 19:01 |
sfan5 |
Krock: looks good from a quick read-through but when are we reverting #10419? |
| 19:01 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/10419 -- Replace MyEventReceiver KeyList with std::unordered_set by v-rob |
| 19:01 |
Krock |
yes |
| 19:01 |
Krock |
soon |
| 19:40 |
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| 20:13 |
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| 20:18 |
zughy[m] |
Krock: why exactly you reviewed an already merged PR? #10512 Is it a "do another PR to fix these things"? |
| 20:18 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/10512 -- Clean up l_object.cpp by Zughy |
| 20:21 |
Krock |
it's to discuss the points prior opening a new PR. I'll do that if nobody else is keen |
| 20:22 |
Krock |
because it might be possible that some of the changes there are justified and don't need reverting |
| 20:23 |
sfan5 |
zughy[m]: do you remember why you removed the compatibility code in set_physics_override? |
| 20:24 |
zughy[m] |
those could be easily fixed using the functions I've added in #10564, but it needs another approval |
| 20:24 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/10564 -- Fix ObjectRef crashes due to lua_isnil() by Zughy |
| 20:24 |
zughy[m] |
aaah, riot delay |
| 20:24 |
zughy[m] |
*matrix |
| 20:27 |
zughy[m] |
I didn't see any deprecation warning in the API so I thought it was something obsolete to be removed |
| 20:28 |
zughy[m] |
like, the API didn't say anything about a non-table format |
| 20:33 |
Krock |
the physics override format was officially supported until e51ad533 |
| 20:34 |
Krock |
..and that was in dec 2013 |
| 20:34 |
zughy[m] |
also, isn't this useless if helper.cpp already has readParam<v2f>? https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/src/script/common/c_converter.cpp#L147 |
| 20:35 |
Krock |
yes, I think the idea was to replace those functions. ping nerzhul |
| 20:36 |
zughy[m] |
back on 10564: those fixes could then be addressed with readParam<v3f>(L, idx, v3f(0,0,0)) |
| 21:02 |
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| 21:15 |
zughy[m] |
Krock: if you'd be so kind to review #10564, I can then fix the things you pointed out in my previous PR |
| 21:15 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/10564 -- Fix ObjectRef crashes due to lua_isnil() by Zughy |
| 21:19 |
Krock |
will do, probably tomorrow |
| 21:26 |
MTDiscord |
<Genshin> Krock, question. What's the possibility of having a second wield hand feature for first person? |
| 21:27 |
Krock |
13.37% |
| 21:30 |
MTDiscord |
<Genshin> Ouch X) |
| 21:31 |
MTDiscord |
<Genshin> Hopefully i'll come up with a alternative method with the fps attachment pr. got dualwielding to work |
| 22:52 |
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| 23:10 |
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| 23:14 |
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| 23:55 |
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