Time Nick Message 01:12 MTDiscord Mfw that PR would get shut down by you know who for reposting screenie after a removal 01:17 pmp-p if interfering with a CoC it should have been closed in the first place not edited, and i don't know any of the protagonist or why 07:12 celeron55 well that's textbook bullying by kilbith 07:12 celeron55 i sure hope paramat can take it because i guess we can't afford not accepting kilbith's PRs 09:54 MTDiscord TBH we could afford not accepting that specific PR 10:28 zughy[m] tbh there's no need to be a dick, behaviours like those only separate the community. He thinks he's an idiot or idk? Fine, just don't go with zingers in the very PR. He thinks he's that bad and a lot of people agree with him? Contact Celeron 10:40 pgimeno I'd just shut down that PR if it were in my hands. 10:43 pgimeno Accepting it would send a very poisonous message to the community. 10:52 Gael-de-Sailly exactly it's not something to support 10:53 Gael-de-Sailly and the author is free to re-post it without the aggressive message if he wants his feature to be accepted 10:58 Gael-de-Sailly these disputes are so boring... do they think about the many other people that don't want to see their personal quarrels? IMO this is a very selfish behaviour, and not only towards the person he insulted 10:58 Gael-de-Sailly it's part of what is getting me away from Minetest the recent months 11:27 Krock Call to deprecated function 'get_velocity', please use 'get_player_velocity' 11:27 Krock it's kinda out of order. patching soon... 11:45 pgimeno maybe this one would be good? https://www.contributor-covenant.org/ 11:53 Krock will push https://krock-works.uk.to/u/patches/0001-Fix-incorrect-deprecation-hints.patch in 10 minutes, rubenwardy 11:54 Krock pgimeno: that looks like a common sense CoC. I don't know how helpful that would be 11:56 pgimeno pinging rubenwardy who seems to be also interested in having a CoC 11:58 pgimeno how useful would it be? well, if there's nothing, there's nothing to stop behaviour like that in #10580 11:58 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/10580 -- Add new standalone file-browser in Lua by kilbith 12:01 pyrollo Hi Krock & pgimeno, I guess you refer to that https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/10580#issuecomment-719982875 12:02 pgimeno more specifically to https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/7883281/97789515-6b6ee580-1bc1-11eb-8b50-34fd1e4026c2.png 12:02 Krock pushing patch 12:10 MTDiscord i may be a bit slow, but what is wrong with fsck? isnt it fs check? 12:11 pgimeno "oh fsck you!" is a way to write the F word without actually using it 12:11 MTDiscord oh dear 13:09 celeron55 so people agree with me if i'm closing this PR with the option for kilbith to create it again without the aggressive language 13:10 celeron55 i'm fairly sure kilbith will just start doing some childish tricks until he's banned again and then complain about being banned 13:10 celeron55 but eh 13:10 celeron55 let's see 13:11 pmp-p moderation should be made in private 13:11 pmp-p first talk to the guy and cool things off if possible 13:11 pmp-p remind him not to mess forum/life and code 13:12 pmp-p then take the close decision with yout pairs 13:12 pmp-p your* 13:12 celeron55 kilbith is on his second term after already being banned for a year due to persistent bad behavior and many chances to improve 13:12 celeron55 trying to solve this in private won't work 13:12 pmp-p hmm recidivist 13:15 celeron55 frankly the only thing that will work is a permanent ban 13:16 pmp-p well i don't like recidivist, from xp they can undermine a whole community, slowly but surely 13:18 pmp-p some people thrive on conflicts but sometime it's just one guy to one other that have undisclosed history 13:18 pmp-p which kind do you think ? 13:20 celeron55 i don't know, it seems to me kilbith generally has trouble being with people he thinks are lesser than himself 13:20 celeron55 but i'm not a people person 13:21 pmp-p well if your pairs come to the same conclusion as you about a *generic* bad behaviour, i'd say it needs serious mesure 13:23 celeron55 paramat seems to be very magnetic towards being hated and in this case it gets completely out of hand 13:25 pmp-p there was a story like that in micropython community 13:25 celeron55 how did it end up? 13:26 pmp-p badly ended losing the guy that really made the difference 13:26 pmp-p like 50% of the code and good ideas 13:26 celeron55 in this case both have made contributions for a long time 13:29 pmp-p from a quick look it's seem both are getting money from MT directly or indirectly 13:30 pmp-p so there really need to be a vote 13:31 pmp-p some people may have bid on any of them for the continuation of MT 13:31 sfan5 a vote on whether a contributor should be allowed to insult another one? 13:32 ZoeS17 FWIW, that took me the better part of half an hour to understand what happened and only because I read it as file system check. There should be a way to permanently remove issues should that need to be a thing. 13:32 pmp-p a vote on allowing people financially interested in MT to use forum 13:33 pmp-p because obviously they are biased toward true community spirit 13:33 pmp-p maybe keep and limit them on coding/contributing part 13:45 pmp-p it also could be that some people that i don't know do not know how to switch seasons beetween "(serious) bugfix time" and "extend project" 13:48 pmp-p that could lead to a very serious gap beetween users and dev/mainteners 13:56 pmp-p having at the same time "hey that boat is sinking" and "give me more speed i want to go there asap" attitudes can really hurt morale of people trying to pump water out 14:01 pmp-p people rarely gets a real reward for a bug fixed, so last question if both people are tough is : who really gets the job done ? 14:10 MTDiscord > because I read it as file system check same ^^ 14:11 MTDiscord anyways, please demand no more insults from kilbith 14:11 * pmp-p do a harmless chkdsk_appguru :D 14:13 MTDiscord Just saw celeron handled it properly. 14:47 kilbith celeron55: it is ironical you call my language as aggressive when paramat is constantly into personal attacks and heated arguments (and very little into contributing code actually) 14:48 kilbith maybe if you were involved more into the community you'd see that and what people (including core-devs) genuinely think of him, especially on Discord 14:49 MTDiscord You're on Discord? 14:50 MTDiscord Anyways, we don't want that language here 14:50 celeron55[m] If you want to demote paramat, you're doing it completely wrong 14:50 MTDiscord And a PR is definitely the wrong place to express such sentiments 14:51 kilbith celeron55[m]: if you weren't your courtier, it'd would take a short time before he gets impeached 14:51 kilbith s/you/he 14:51 MTDiscord he ain't president duh 14:52 MTDiscord I'm not exactly a paramat fan either, but I would never insult him like this 14:53 kilbith since when fsck is an insult 14:53 MTDiscord Especially not in a totally unrelated pull request 14:53 MTDiscord fsck alone is not; fsck_paramat is 14:53 pmp-p i did not see fsck.png 14:53 MTDiscord I saw it but didn't get it at first ? 14:56 pmp-p what i saw is merely a low insult, at least you could have added a preview box for images with an angry gnome as paramat.png 14:57 MTDiscord I'd like to know what the intent behind that file was 14:57 pmp-p if you want to be pointlessly rude, at least make people laugh 14:57 MTDiscord I too like having silly tests 14:57 MTDiscord But not offensive ones 14:58 kilbith next time I'll do a tech demo video with fancy effects to "fsck paramat" presented as nodes 15:00 celeron55[m] The problem is, something silly for others can be a long lasting series of byllying to someone else. You don't want to be playing with such things 15:00 celeron55[m] We're trying to be adults here 15:01 ZoeS17 Ad hominems are never right, period. 15:01 kilbith how long hmmmm has been bullying people? remind me 15:01 celeron55[m] * The problem is, something silly for others can be a long lasting series of bullying to someone else. You don't want to be playing with such things 15:01 pmp-p yeah keep it professionnal at least on code/pr side 15:02 celeron55[m] hmmmm was just generally rude and didn't pick targets 15:02 celeron55[m] Completely different 15:02 kilbith well perhaps you have short memory 15:02 kilbith RBA, me, some random contributors... 15:03 celeron55[m] There is also a good chance hmmmm's behavior wouldn't be totally accepted today 15:04 celeron55[m] Not that I really remember 15:04 celeron55[m] But if he was like you imply 15:05 kilbith it's just that we are opening the arms to the CoC cancer spreading 15:05 celeron55[m] You are 15:06 celeron55[m] I'm against it, but you make it extremely hard 15:06 celeron55[m] Stop it 15:06 MTDiscord We wouldn't need CoCs in the first place if it wasn't for such incidents 15:06 pgimeno ^ 15:07 MTDiscord Paramat OFC needs to be equally reprimanded should he ever insult others like this, but TBH I haven't seen such behavior from him yet. 15:08 pgimeno neither have I 15:08 kilbith because it's more subtle than insults usually 15:09 kilbith or you're all naive and blind 15:09 kilbith except rubenwardy 15:09 Benrob0329[m] Paramat is very conservative with his development approach, this frustrates a lot of people. This does not justify passive aggressive comments or childish behavior. Issues need to be brought up specifically and in a professional way for things to change for the better. 15:12 celeron55[m] paramat usually listens to reason. You just need to bother writing it down 15:13 pgimeno kilbith: so what you're saying is that paramat does not cross the line of resorting to insults, good from him, it means he's being civilized in his behaviour 15:13 kilbith yeah we waste a lot of time to convince one guy that no professional team would want anyway 15:16 kilbith pgimeno: you never dealt with him directly afaik 15:16 kilbith but anyway, it's not too important, as long as we ignore each other I'm fine 15:19 pgimeno of course I've dealt with him, and disagreed with him, and the discussion turned heated, but at the end of the discussion, I was able to separate it from the person 15:20 nerzhul unfortunately it's often the case, if you remember our nice weapon pass in the past :D 15:22 celeron55[m] Using insults actually makes kilbith's problem worse, because then paramat limiting his involvement with issues and PRs would mean the aggressiveness was a way to solve the problem 15:24 celeron55[m] I don't think many would like to allow insults to be succesfully used for anything 15:25 celeron55[m] That's what I mean by this being the completely wrong way of doing anything 15:27 Benrob0329[m] I would like to mention that kilbith's behavior is textbook toxicity. Shutting down people he doesn't like/feels are lesser, using passive aggression to push hate onto someone else, moving the blame to another source, moving the discussion to the behavior of others, being starkly nice in places he needs community support (namely the forums), etc. 15:29 Benrob0329[m] I absolutely love his PRs, but his behavior is unprofessional at best. 15:30 celeron55[m] It's essy to see in kilbiths behabior that in the past he's gotten way too much done with the same kind of behavior 15:30 celeron55[m] * It's easy to see in kilbiths behabior that in the past he's gotten way too much done with the same kind of behavior 15:30 celeron55[m] * It's easy to see in kilbiths behavior that in the past he's gotten way too much done with the same kind of behavior 15:30 celeron55[m] I'm typoing so much... 15:30 celeron55[m] I'm blaming this touchscreen 15:31 pgimeno I wouldn't be surprised if oldcoder started the same way... 15:33 Benrob0329[m] Lets not demonize him either though, OC has other issues. 15:33 pmp-p drama time is coding time wasted 16:14 rubenwardy Krock: thanks for the fix, I did test it but didn't pay much attention apparently 16:18 pyrollo I'm diving into SSCSM implementation... 16:18 pyrollo And having a lot of questionings. 16:19 pyrollo First of all.. that name is awful :) 16:20 rubenwardy it is terribl 16:21 pyrollo Something like Server Sent Script sounds better IMO (no "mod" concept, no "Lua", just ... server sent scripts :) ) 16:22 pyrollo Another problem is the concurrency with actual CSM. Looks more difficult to keep both SS and CSM than replacing CSM with SSCSM. 16:23 pyrollo According to what I read, removing CSM looks probable if SSCSM is implemented 16:25 Krock rubenwardy: it's fine ^^ 16:35 rubenwardy gosh, Irrlicht image scaling is terrible 16:35 rubenwardy https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/2122943/97808673-251c9380-1c60-11eb-8031-8e4ffed68f49.png 16:35 rubenwardy or maybe that's MT 16:35 Krock https://imgflip.com/s/meme/Always-Has-Been.png 16:55 Krock #10458 - ready for review. fixes some dead keys. pretty easy to test 16:55 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/10458 -- Chat Input: Allow more input keys by SmallJoker 17:27 MTDiscord I agree with c55 regarding to closing that PR from JP and giving him a chance to make another one. It's better to make a PR without having to inslult anyone. If he still does the same thing then it will be his fault for not complying to conduct. 17:28 MTDiscord and by he, i meant JP 18:24 pgimeno Krock: have you fixed accents?!? 18:24 Krock no, I don't know how to fix those, but regular keys should work now 18:25 pgimeno awwww 18:25 Krock I mean the combine accents don't work yet: ^ and ~ " 18:25 pgimeno áéíóú <- very used in Spanish 18:26 rubenwardy over half of our team is international, yet our internationalisation support sucks a bit 18:26 Krock question is whether those need combining characters or can be pressed directly using Shift/Alt/Ctrl combinations 18:30 pgimeno no, no other combinations, there's an accent key dedicated to them for that purpose 18:31 Krock then it should work 18:33 pgimeno Krock: are you on Linux? if so, you can use 'setxkbmap es' to test with a Spanish keyboard. The key to the right of the L is Ñ, which works fine, and the one to the right of Ñ is an accent key, which should be combinable with any vowel. 18:34 pgimeno But currently it outputs ’ in minetest. 18:34 Krock yes I am. need to figure out the original xkbmap set first before testing this 19:01 sfan5 Krock: looks good from a quick read-through but when are we reverting #10419? 19:01 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/10419 -- Replace MyEventReceiver KeyList with std::unordered_set by v-rob 19:01 Krock yes 19:01 Krock soon 20:18 zughy[m] Krock: why exactly you reviewed an already merged PR? #10512 Is it a "do another PR to fix these things"? 20:18 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/10512 -- Clean up l_object.cpp by Zughy 20:21 Krock it's to discuss the points prior opening a new PR. I'll do that if nobody else is keen 20:22 Krock because it might be possible that some of the changes there are justified and don't need reverting 20:23 sfan5 zughy[m]: do you remember why you removed the compatibility code in set_physics_override? 20:24 zughy[m] those could be easily fixed using the functions I've added in #10564, but it needs another approval 20:24 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/10564 -- Fix ObjectRef crashes due to lua_isnil() by Zughy 20:24 zughy[m] aaah, riot delay 20:24 zughy[m] *matrix 20:27 zughy[m] I didn't see any deprecation warning in the API so I thought it was something obsolete to be removed 20:28 zughy[m] like, the API didn't say anything about a non-table format 20:33 Krock the physics override format was officially supported until e51ad533 20:34 Krock ..and that was in dec 2013 20:34 zughy[m] also, isn't this useless if helper.cpp already has readParam? https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/src/script/common/c_converter.cpp#L147 20:35 Krock yes, I think the idea was to replace those functions. ping nerzhul 20:36 zughy[m] back on 10564: those fixes could then be addressed with readParam(L, idx, v3f(0,0,0)) 21:15 zughy[m] Krock: if you'd be so kind to review #10564, I can then fix the things you pointed out in my previous PR 21:15 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/10564 -- Fix ObjectRef crashes due to lua_isnil() by Zughy 21:19 Krock will do, probably tomorrow 21:26 MTDiscord Krock, question. What's the possibility of having a second wield hand feature for first person? 21:27 Krock 13.37% 21:30 MTDiscord Ouch X) 21:31 MTDiscord Hopefully i'll come up with a alternative method with the fps attachment pr. got dualwielding to work