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| 10:28 |
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| 10:29 |
Megaf |
Hi folks. |
| 10:41 |
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| 10:48 |
paramat |
#3887 is needed but merge fails due to line endings problems, any ideas how i can get this to merge? i might try replacing every line ending in my text editor |
| 10:48 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3887 -- Shaders: Reduce amplitude of waving leaves and plants by paramat |
| 10:58 |
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| 11:04 |
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| 11:04 |
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| 11:05 |
neoascetic |
Tests for OSX failed. Again: https://travis-ci.org/minetest/minetest/jobs/117501722 |
| 11:05 |
neoascetic |
I think it is better to rewrite the test. It is machine/speed/something-else dependent |
| 11:05 |
paramat |
that fail happens often, there's an issue for it |
| 11:06 |
neoascetic |
Oh, okay |
| 11:06 |
paramat |
it happens on good PRs |
| 11:06 |
red-001 |
It happens on all PRs |
| 11:07 |
paramat |
builds are failing so often now i rarely take notice of them =/ |
| 11:07 |
neoascetic |
May I have a link to issue, please? |
| 11:07 |
neoascetic |
#3786 |
| 11:07 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3786 -- Unreliably failing unittests on mac |
| 11:07 |
neoascetic |
got it |
| 11:29 |
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| 11:37 |
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| 11:43 |
red-001 |
#3900 |
| 11:43 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3900 -- Add a button for disabling all mods to world config. by red-001 |
| 11:45 |
paramat |
nore sfan5 ShadowNinja PilzAdam reviews needed for game#908 game#957 game#959 game#862 game#962 game#964 game#945 |
| 11:45 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/908 -- Default: New jungletree_top texture with square character by paramat |
| 11:45 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/957 -- Doors: Allow schematic placement of wooden doors. by sofar |
| 11:45 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/959 -- Default: Make some plant nodes non-flammable by paramat |
| 11:45 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/862 -- Tnt: Improvements by sofar |
| 11:45 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/962 -- Fire: Allow placing only above flammable blocks by kilbith |
| 11:45 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/964 -- Books: Move page buttons at the bottom by kilbith |
| 11:45 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/945 -- Creative: Code cleaning + Fix items moving in virtual inventory by kilbith2 |
| 11:46 |
nore |
paramat: 945 is +1 from me once it is tested |
| 11:46 |
paramat |
ok |
| 11:46 |
sfan5 |
wat |
| 11:46 |
sfan5 |
why would a tree have perfectly square inner structure |
| 11:47 |
paramat |
i tried rounding the corners but it looked bad |
| 11:47 |
sfan5 |
paramat: https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/pull/908#issuecomment-195664426 |
| 11:48 |
paramat |
all our trees have square structure :) |
| 11:48 |
sfan5 |
yeah but not like this |
| 11:49 |
paramat |
i tried adding those rounded corners to my cross-shape, it looked really bad |
| 11:49 |
paramat |
that texture ignores the 4 lianas |
| 11:49 |
sfan5 |
but why do we want to plus inside the tree |
| 11:50 |
paramat |
that's explained in my comments |
| 11:50 |
paramat |
it looks cool and has character |
| 11:51 |
sfan5 |
i disagree |
| 11:51 |
red-001 |
I looks strange to me |
| 11:51 |
paramat |
heh textures are difficult merges |
| 11:53 |
sfan5 |
paramat: approve 957 and 959 |
| 11:54 |
paramat |
ok |
| 11:56 |
paramat |
i'll try to test 945 later |
| 11:58 |
paramat |
then i'll merge another batch |
| 12:02 |
paramat |
i'll re-try rounding my texture |
| 12:10 |
sfan5 |
paramat: 964 is ok too |
| 12:11 |
paramat |
ok |
| 12:20 |
red-001 |
#969 |
| 12:20 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/969 -- Refactor the main method in main.cpp |
| 12:20 |
red-001 |
game#969 |
| 12:20 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/969 -- Remove `default:dirt_with_grass_footsteps` and add alias. by red-001 |
| 12:22 |
paramat |
^ VanessaE i seem to remember it's used on some servers? |
| 12:27 |
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| 12:28 |
red-001 |
so should I keep the texture? |
| 12:29 |
red-001 |
that way servers can re add it more easily |
| 12:31 |
paramat |
we may have to keep the node, best wait for more input |
| 12:45 |
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| 13:14 |
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| 13:20 |
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| 13:20 |
VanessaE |
keep the node, paramat. |
| 13:20 |
VanessaE |
some servers/games use it. |
| 13:27 |
nore |
I'd say, keep the node, even if it can't be obtained without creative or /giveme |
| 13:27 |
sfan5 |
^ ack |
| 13:29 |
nore |
game#852 should be tested and merged before 0.4.14 I think |
| 13:29 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/852 -- Call on_place_node() callbacks after placing door. by sofar |
| 13:29 |
nore |
#game#862 I meabt |
| 13:29 |
nore |
grrr |
| 13:29 |
VanessaE |
bbl |
| 13:30 |
nore |
well, the TNT one |
| 14:03 |
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| 14:39 |
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| 15:20 |
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| 15:22 |
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| 15:25 |
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| 15:28 |
paramat |
945 is tested and shift-clicking works |
| 15:31 |
paramat |
nore sfan5 agree to close game#969 ? |
| 15:31 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/969 -- Remove `default:dirt_with_grass_footsteps` and add alias. by red-001 |
| 15:31 |
sfan5 |
yes |
| 15:32 |
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| 15:34 |
paramat |
ok |
| 15:35 |
paramat |
done |
| 15:36 |
paramat |
will soon merge games 893 945 957 958 959 960 964 968 =P' |
| 15:42 |
paramat |
now merging |
| 15:44 |
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| 15:56 |
paramat |
merged |
| 16:19 |
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| 16:43 |
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| 16:44 |
est31 |
paramat, what PR is do you think more important: the metadata PR or the noclip one? |
| 16:44 |
VanessaE |
metadata. |
| 16:45 |
est31 |
both still needs lots of work |
| 16:45 |
VanessaE |
which one's the noclip one? |
| 16:46 |
paramat |
erm metadata, but noclip is needed for new doors |
| 16:46 |
est31 |
#3894 |
| 16:46 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3894 -- Add serverside noclip enforcement by est31 |
| 16:46 |
est31 |
well which one is more important |
| 16:46 |
Fixer |
paramat, not only new doors |
| 16:46 |
est31 |
i dont think i have time for fixing both this week |
| 16:46 |
paramat |
i guess both unfortunately, happy to delay freeze |
| 16:47 |
Fixer |
paramat, it is not just doors, there are a lot of problems with cheaters that it can solve (noclip mining, or going through any block) |
| 16:47 |
paramat |
hmm |
| 16:48 |
paramat |
perhaps noclip is then if it's essential for new doors |
| 16:48 |
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| 16:48 |
paramat |
metadata would be really nice to have in but isn't as essential |
| 16:48 |
Fixer |
paramat, right now cheater can go through any block and mine everything, with this PR it will not |
| 16:48 |
est31 |
noclip needs path search improvement |
| 16:48 |
est31 |
metadata pr needs bugfixing |
| 16:49 |
Fixer |
please, delay the freeze |
| 16:49 |
paramat |
man these new doors have caused trouble |
| 16:49 |
Fixer |
why so much rush? |
| 16:49 |
paramat |
no rush |
| 16:49 |
est31 |
its not rush |
| 16:49 |
est31 |
why so feature creep :) |
| 16:51 |
paramat |
i almost feel the minor advantages of mesh doors are not worth the trouble and complexity (but hate to say it after so much good work by sofar) |
| 16:51 |
paramat |
still i'll stay neutral on that for now :) |
| 16:52 |
VanessaE |
est31: metadata is more important imho |
| 16:52 |
VanessaE |
fewer people are affected by noclip bugs, imho |
| 16:52 |
est31 |
fewer? |
| 16:52 |
est31 |
people lag into houses all the time |
| 16:53 |
VanessaE |
sure, but *everyone* is affected by performance problems caused by excessive metadata changes :) |
| 16:53 |
paramat |
yeah hmm |
| 16:54 |
paramat |
perhaps we should delay freeze |
| 16:54 |
paramat |
and aask other devs for help on these 2 |
| 16:54 |
paramat |
(ask) |
| 17:00 |
paramat |
ok i would say metadata, and leave noclip to someone else |
| 17:03 |
paramat |
and i'm holding freeze until further notice |
| 17:04 |
VanessaE |
so you're freezing the freeze? :P |
| 17:05 |
est31 |
hehe |
| 17:06 |
paramat |
lol |
| 17:07 |
VanessaE |
I would say start the freeze and just run it for longer |
| 17:08 |
VanessaE |
it's not like you're adding features anyway |
| 17:08 |
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| 17:10 |
paramat |
guess it depends on when we consider these 2 PRs 'merged'. anyway announced and lets see how stuff goes over the next few days |
| 17:10 |
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| 17:20 |
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| 17:23 |
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| 17:23 |
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| 17:24 |
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| 17:25 |
srifqi |
paramat, I've some question in 2561. (I've updated my last comment) |
| 17:26 |
paramat |
!tell ShadowNinja is it possible you could work on noclip 3894 so est can concentrate on metadata 3848? |
| 17:26 |
ShadowBot |
paramat: O.K. |
| 17:26 |
paramat |
ok looking |
| 17:30 |
paramat |
i'll list the defaults |
| 17:37 |
paramat |
replied |
| 17:37 |
srifqi |
i've read your reply |
| 17:39 |
srifqi |
thanks for reply, i'll work asap 'cause it's already late night here (0.39 a.m.) |
| 17:39 |
paramat |
est31 since you have a grip on 3848 i recommend focussing on that |
| 17:39 |
paramat |
ok |
| 17:41 |
Hunterz |
anyone familiar with worldedit? Does MT WE //undo command or something similar? |
| 17:48 |
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| 17:56 |
Obani |
Hunterz, no |
| 17:56 |
Hunterz |
:( |
| 17:56 |
Obani |
paramat, is #3893 mergeable ? |
| 17:57 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3893 -- Credits: Make that easy to add/remove by Rui914 |
| 18:06 |
ssieb |
Any comments on https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/3899 ? Would be nice to get in for 0.4.14... |
| 18:10 |
paramat |
3893 is low priority |
| 18:11 |
paramat |
we're having to prioritise and we're half frozen so .. |
| 18:12 |
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| 18:17 |
* ssieb |
should have read the topic more carefully. |
| 18:17 |
ssieb |
I didn't realize how close freeze was :-/ |
| 18:35 |
sofar |
paramat: the *one* thing that is imho still worth it for doors is that it's only one node update to open/close doors |
| 18:35 |
sofar |
we could have done the API changes without it, of course |
| 18:35 |
sofar |
but only having 1 node update state is a lot cleaner and safer |
| 18:36 |
ssieb |
Is it enough to make a pull request or should I create an issue as well? |
| 18:43 |
Fixer |
sofar, it is fine, noclip will solve it anyway and many other problems |
| 18:49 |
paramat |
yes i was just grumbling, we should of course continue on with the new doors |
| 18:50 |
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| 18:52 |
paramat |
Minetest is semi-frozen, it's in the fridge door next to the fruit juices |
| 18:54 |
rom1504 |
so, if we cut the power, minetest will get more activity ? |
| 18:58 |
celeron55 |
it will rot and spoil |
| 18:58 |
rom1504 |
ah damn |
| 19:01 |
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| 19:03 |
Krock |
vacumize it then |
| 19:03 |
Krock |
it will prevent Minetest from rot |
| 19:03 |
Krock |
for a while at least |
| 19:04 |
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| 19:04 |
ssieb |
paramat: Is it enough to make a pull request or should I create an issue as well? |
| 19:07 |
|
red-001 joined #minetest-dev |
| 19:08 |
paramat |
just the PR is ok we can discuss there, perhaps add more description to explain what this fixes |
| 19:09 |
ssieb |
ok |
| 19:13 |
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| 19:13 |
sofar |
paramat: I'm very aware that the whole doors PR has been a massive learning curve for me ;) |
| 19:16 |
red-001 |
sofar the maximum intensity for TNT should be dependent on the size of the explosion |
| 19:16 |
red-001 |
or versa |
| 19:16 |
red-001 |
or vice versa |
| 19:16 |
sofar |
yes, we need to calculate a square inverse curve to make intensity based on radius |
| 19:17 |
sofar |
this is why I protested against using radius earlier |
| 19:17 |
sofar |
but, we can inverse calculate it |
| 19:17 |
paramat |
ah hm good point |
| 19:17 |
sofar |
the conversion factor will be a weird constant, though |
| 19:18 |
sofar |
red-001: did you see my TNT video btw? |
| 19:18 |
sofar |
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c3G-52FV4SI&list=PL0q7atYslWifTuX60rtCaocQiYUSdtZJP&index=3 |
| 19:19 |
red-001 |
yeah |
| 19:19 |
paramat |
assume the outermost removed node always has the same 'intensity'. 'intensity = 1 at midrange of normal tnt' means at radius 2 of radius 3 tnt |
| 19:20 |
paramat |
or something |
| 19:20 |
sofar |
right |
| 19:21 |
sofar |
I'll have to math that out |
| 19:21 |
paramat |
or maybe just have intensity = 1 at outermost removed node |
| 19:21 |
red-001 |
that would make more sense |
| 19:23 |
paramat |
simpler, more intuitive, simpler maths |
| 19:23 |
sofar |
actually no |
| 19:24 |
sofar |
I had some nice and easy math model laid out before |
| 19:24 |
sofar |
but y'all pooped over it |
| 19:24 |
paramat |
yeah i remember disagreeing |
| 19:24 |
sofar |
so, it's going to be a kludge |
| 19:24 |
sofar |
because you guys think that expressing "TNT intensity" as "radius" is a good idea |
| 19:25 |
sofar |
the radius is a consequence OF the intensity |
| 19:25 |
sofar |
the intensity is the *energy* of the tnt |
| 19:25 |
sofar |
that, is simple math |
| 19:25 |
sofar |
:P |
| 19:26 |
paramat |
intensity = (1 / radius ^ 2) * destructionradius ^ 2 ? |
| 19:27 |
paramat |
= 1 at edge, falls as inverse-square |
| 19:27 |
sofar |
the whole problem is moot anyway |
| 19:27 |
sofar |
we never calculate intensity for nodes getting destroyed |
| 19:28 |
Obani |
sofar, your connected nodeboxes are really good looking :D |
| 19:28 |
red-001 |
so the feature freeze is today? |
| 19:29 |
paramat |
it's more there for mods. with that equation node is removed at intensity >= 1 |
| 19:29 |
paramat |
fridge door |
| 19:29 |
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| 19:30 |
sofar |
https://github.com/sofar/minetest_game/blob/tnt/mods/tnt/init.lua#L247 |
| 19:31 |
sofar |
the "1" in that line... that's the problem |
| 19:31 |
red-001 |
but what to replace it with? |
| 19:31 |
sofar |
so here's my proposal |
| 19:31 |
sofar |
1) keep radius |
| 19:31 |
sofar |
2) internally, convert radius to *actual* tnt intensity/energy |
| 19:32 |
sofar |
3) then do math based on the actual energy |
| 19:32 |
ssieb |
paramat: ok, I've added a (hopefully clear) explanation of why my change is useful |
| 19:33 |
red-001 |
all math or only `on_blast` related? |
| 19:34 |
sofar |
why would we do a bad job at it? |
| 19:34 |
sofar |
if the internal conversion is good, it doesn't matter |
| 19:34 |
sofar |
maybe one day with proper math, we can make softer materials explode futher |
| 19:35 |
sofar |
and harder materials explode less |
| 19:35 |
sofar |
so the size of the hole becomes variable |
| 19:35 |
sofar |
e.g. group:ore is hardest, group:stone less hard, group:cracky even less |
| 19:35 |
red-001 |
so rewrite explode? |
| 19:36 |
sofar |
to actually calculate intensity per node, yes, and compare it to a threshold |
| 19:36 |
sofar |
that would be awesome for sedimentology as well |
| 19:37 |
sofar |
now I have to do this: https://github.com/minetest-mods/sedimentology/blob/master/nodes.lua |
| 19:39 |
red-001 |
well that wouldn't work too well with voxel manipulator |
| 19:40 |
sofar |
sure it will |
| 19:40 |
sofar |
doesn't make a difference at all |
| 19:40 |
red-001 |
It does |
| 19:40 |
paramat |
intensity = (destructionradius ^ 2) / (MAX(radius, 1) ^ 2) = 1 at edge |
| 19:40 |
red-001 |
you need to select an area of the map |
| 19:41 |
sofar |
just make it large enough |
| 19:41 |
red-001 |
that would be slower |
| 19:41 |
sofar |
it's fast enough |
| 19:41 |
sofar |
did you see my radius=8 explosion? |
| 19:42 |
sofar |
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QSLOp0afutA |
| 19:42 |
sofar |
tell me that that was slow |
| 19:42 |
red-001 |
I created an radius 12 explosion |
| 19:43 |
red-001 |
I know it's fast |
| 19:43 |
sofar |
besides that, the extra radius needed beyond 3 would probably be only 1-2 extra blocks |
| 19:47 |
red-001 |
the amount of drops seems to be the largest limiting factor on explosions |
| 19:48 |
sofar |
F = U / r^2 <= the core forumula |
| 19:48 |
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| 19:48 |
sofar |
U = energy |
| 19:48 |
sofar |
F = force |
| 19:48 |
sofar |
r = radius (or distance) |
| 19:49 |
sofar |
if you want to have a F of 1 at radius 3, then logically U = 9 |
| 19:49 |
sofar |
so, we can express U (tnt "energy") as "radius*radius" |
| 19:49 |
Krock |
isn't P = energy? |
| 19:49 |
sofar |
P is power |
| 19:50 |
Krock |
force [N], radius [m] -> Nm -> Joule -> Ws |
| 19:50 |
Krock |
it's power! :P |
| 19:50 |
sofar |
ah , sure, very good |
| 19:50 |
sofar |
someone is paying attention! |
| 19:51 |
Krock |
nah, just clicked on this tab and seen that |
| 19:52 |
sofar |
anyway, now we have a trivial formula to calculate intensity at any radius |
| 19:52 |
sofar |
based on tntradius |
| 19:52 |
Krock |
and other trivial power conversion method |
| 19:52 |
sofar |
P = tntradius*tntradius / radius*radius |
| 19:53 |
sofar |
(where radius is never smaller than 1.0) |
| 19:53 |
Krock |
aww fuck. It's not P, it's W. |
| 19:53 |
Krock |
P is just Watt where W contains the time aswell |
| 19:54 |
sofar |
Nm would be correct, I think |
| 19:54 |
Krock |
yeah, and so is Joule ;) |
| 19:54 |
sofar |
but that's the unit, not the symbol :) |
| 19:54 |
sofar |
(darn convention letters) |
| 19:55 |
paramat |
that's identical to my equation |
| 19:55 |
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| 19:55 |
sofar |
anyway, logically from that curves follow that Nm can't be larger than 0.25 at r=6, for instance, so there's no need to make the voxelmanip that huge |
| 19:55 |
sofar |
it gets smaller pretty easily |
| 19:56 |
sofar |
paramat: yup, it is |
| 19:56 |
paramat |
ok lets update th etnt PR with that |
| 19:56 |
paramat |
(the tnt) |
| 19:57 |
paramat |
nore sfan5 ShadowNinja i updated game#908 |
| 19:57 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/908 -- Default: New jungletree_top texture with square character by paramat |
| 19:58 |
sfan5 |
now it's diamond formed |
| 19:58 |
sfan5 |
i still prefer the texture the way it is |
| 19:59 |
paramat |
current one is too round and the lianas are too thin |
| 20:00 |
Obani |
paramat, current one is not good, but your new one is worse :s |
| 20:01 |
paramat |
lol |
| 20:01 |
Obani |
I like Rui914's proposal |
| 20:01 |
sofar |
compare them with the other trees |
| 20:01 |
paramat |
that one ignores the lianas |
| 20:01 |
Obani |
Actually it just doesn't fit in any way with the environment |
| 20:02 |
sofar |
well jungles are the worst biome right now |
| 20:02 |
paramat |
it perfectly fits the structure of the side texture |
| 20:02 |
Obani |
No |
| 20:02 |
sofar |
we all hate the side texture |
| 20:02 |
sofar |
lol |
| 20:02 |
Obani |
It doesn't fit at all |
| 20:03 |
Obani |
Just look at the environment and see if it goes out of your view obviously |
| 20:03 |
Obani |
Of course it fits with that lianas thing |
| 20:03 |
Obani |
Bu nobody cares about looking if there are lianas :p |
| 20:03 |
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| 21:03 |
paramat |
thoughts on #3655 ? i support. mgv7 still has a lighting bug at y = 63 but i think making a good impression on reviewers etc is worth it |
| 21:03 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3655 -- Defaulting to Mapgen V7 |
| 21:05 |
paramat |
^ hmmmm |
| 21:15 |
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| 21:21 |
hmmmm |
i dunno, that's more of a question for everybody else |
| 21:21 |
hmmmm |
ask celeron what he thinks |
| 21:22 |
hmmmm |
i'm really curious about his opinion on the matter |
| 21:23 |
sofar |
+1 |
| 21:23 |
celeron55 |
what about all the other options |
| 21:23 |
nrzkt |
http://servers.minetest.net/ |
| 21:24 |
nrzkt |
v6 and v7 seems to be equal for the most active servers |
| 21:24 |
celeron55 |
v5 was what many people realized loving about minetest when v6 had been around for a bit |
| 21:24 |
nrzkt |
also v5 isn't used in public servers and seems unpopular |
| 21:25 |
celeron55 |
well, it has been around in 0.4 for less time and people probably float towards higher numbers |
| 21:26 |
celeron55 |
i mean, i'm not seriously suggesting it, but i have almost just as little reason to suggest v7 |
| 21:29 |
hmmmm |
i think it's a perception thing thanks to the number versioning |
| 21:29 |
nrzkt |
yes version number is important |
| 21:31 |
celeron55 |
but i mean, seriously, try v5 sometimes |
| 21:31 |
celeron55 |
it will make you smile |
| 21:31 |
celeron55 |
it's like "hey, we have this completely freeform voxel world; how about actually using it" |
| 21:39 |
celeron55 |
v7's problem is that it is constantly too large-scale and sparing in detail |
| 21:40 |
celeron55 |
v5's problem is that it's constantly very playful and just crams the whole world full of small detail that gets repetitive after a while |
| 21:41 |
celeron55 |
v6 kind of avoids doing both of those things, instead doing its own signature pattern, kind of |
| 21:43 |
celeron55 |
really, there needs to be something with more balls |
| 21:46 |
celeron55 |
in my opinion the ideal default mapgen should be able to generate at least both, v5 and v7 like stuff in the same world |
| 21:46 |
red-001 |
what about valleys ? |
| 21:46 |
celeron55 |
(and why not v6 too) |
| 21:46 |
red-001 |
is that too unstable? |
| 21:47 |
hmmmm |
well i did learn something valuable from v7 - making a good mapgen is difficult |
| 21:47 |
hmmmm |
i suppose you could literally take v7/v5/v6 and mix the terrain together using large-scale perlin noise |
| 21:47 |
hmmmm |
but then the interpolation between them all would make its own unique yet monotonous blob |
| 21:48 |
hmmmm |
in order for mapgen mixing to work, the interpolation would need to be relatively sharp |
| 21:48 |
celeron55 |
i think creating a meta-mapgen that just mixes up individual mapgens could be worth a try |
| 21:49 |
celeron55 |
it doesn't even need to be perfect; just something kind of plausible enough |
| 21:50 |
celeron55 |
red-001: it kind of is a one-trick pony too |
| 21:50 |
celeron55 |
mapgens love being one trick ponies; it allows them to be efficient in the one thting |
| 21:50 |
red-001 |
true |
| 21:50 |
celeron55 |
thing* |
| 21:55 |
celeron55 |
so, really |
| 21:55 |
celeron55 |
i don't think v7 would make a good impression on reviewers or anything |
| 21:56 |
celeron55 |
you usually spawn on some flat hills with nothing to be seen anywhere; then if you fly fast to some direction you end up to some medium-sized but very boring mountains |
| 21:56 |
celeron55 |
with v6, at least the initial impression is more like "this is an okay hilly forest" |
| 21:58 |
celeron55 |
with v5, the initial impression is like "there is a weird-shaped floating blob of rock in front of me above this medium-sized body of water" |
| 22:02 |
celeron55 |
with valleys, the initial impression is "this is a very hilly forest with small rivers in it" and then at some point you realize those are spaced apart by medium-sized mountains with nothing interesting on them |
| 22:08 |
celeron55 |
the thing about map generators is that they allow you to replace static pre-made content with an arbitrary amount of generated content |
| 22:08 |
celeron55 |
but it's an illusion |
| 22:08 |
celeron55 |
the content is the map generator, and when it runs out of new things to generate, that content has run out like any static content would |
| 22:12 |
celeron55 |
the "run out" threshold is hard to notice - at the point a player notices it, they are quite fed up with it already and might not still understand what it even is that they are fed up with 8) |
| 22:13 |
red-001 |
why does mg_flat generate caves? |
| 22:14 |
red-001 |
and dungeons |
| 22:16 |
red-001 |
it isn't really flat |
| 22:23 |
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| 22:25 |
paramat |
mgv7 isn't completely stable yet, if we insist on that for the default |
| 22:25 |
sofar |
apart from tree massacres though, any other issues? |
| 22:29 |
paramat |
good points. mgv6 is good for beginners and the biomes are not huge |
| 22:30 |
paramat |
i watched a let's play last night in mgv7, it was the usual 'spawn in grassland biome "there's no trees"' thing |
| 22:31 |
sofar |
that's why I really think we should add some scarce mini-tree-shrubs to grassland |
| 22:31 |
paramat |
seems to freak some people out if they're used to minecraft |
| 22:31 |
sofar |
e.g. one stump and 5 leaves |
| 22:31 |
paramat |
i thought that too, bushes |
| 22:31 |
sofar |
make it really sparse, but still, just a few pieces |
| 22:32 |
sofar |
we can re-use them in jungles as well |
| 22:32 |
sofar |
to make the ground cover more varied and really bush-bush like |
| 22:33 |
paramat |
bushes would be good for savanna too |
| 22:33 |
sofar |
tbh that's what I hate about jungles. to me, jungles are high-diversity eco systems |
| 22:33 |
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| 22:33 |
sofar |
our current jungles have 2 things, really |
| 22:33 |
paramat |
hmm so perhaps we stick to mgv6 for now |
| 22:33 |
sofar |
set a goal for 0.4.15 to improve decorations |
| 22:34 |
sofar |
do it early, right after 0.4.14 |
| 22:34 |
sofar |
maybe open an issue already so we can track and discuss |
| 22:36 |
paramat |
i'll put this on my todo list |
| 22:37 |
nore |
to my mind, jungles would look a lot better if there were different kind of trees and otger vegetation in them |
| 22:38 |
nore |
that is, at least two different kinds of trees, and some big trees (and wide too) |
| 22:38 |
paramat |
mgflat is meant to be, or configurable to be, a complete mapgen with lots of flat ground for building / cities. that's why there are options for simple lakes and hills too |
| 22:38 |
nore |
maybe vines from bas080's mod, that adds another kind of vegetation in the air |
| 22:39 |
nore |
and another kind of vegetation on the ground maybe too |
| 22:39 |
sofar |
there's several vines, I have some ideas for them |
| 22:40 |
nore |
also, I think that jungles could be greener |
| 22:40 |
nore |
imho, textures lack green saturation for something that is supposed to be a rainforest |
| 22:41 |
paramat |
you'd like Gambit's texture pack |
| 22:43 |
nore |
hm, I should give it a try :) |
| 22:43 |
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| 22:43 |
nore |
but nevertheless, jungles lack vegetation, I guess this should be added for 0.4.15 |
| 22:44 |
paramat |
nore https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/pull/880#issuecomment-190225443 |
| 22:45 |
nore |
paramat: thanks ! |
| 22:45 |
* nore |
goes to bed now |
| 22:50 |
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| 22:54 |
celeron55 |
many mods and subgames do map generation with a lot of stuff quite well |
| 22:54 |
celeron55 |
there's not much need to invent anything new there; just look at what works and implement it |
| 22:57 |
celeron55 |
how this development should probably work is that the core mapgen generates something, and mods add stuff over it; then it's looked at what mods generally do and that stuff is added to the core mapgen so that it can be done faster, and then mods start using that functionality and can move to figure out more new stuff over it |
| 23:00 |
VanessaE |
oh screw it, just add biome_lib, moretrees, and the whole plantlife modpack. Get it overwith ;) |
| 23:03 |
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| 23:05 |
sofar |
I don't like mods that replace (we're missing one or two variants of X) with (add 25 variants of X) |
| 23:05 |
sofar |
they don't solve any problem |
| 23:05 |
sofar |
they don't make singleplayer more interesting |
| 23:06 |
sofar |
they make things for multiplayer often worse |
| 23:06 |
sofar |
they're only good for creative |
| 23:06 |
sofar |
and barely at that |
| 23:09 |
VanessaE |
I was joking :P |
| 23:10 |
sofar |
I know |
| 23:11 |
VanessaE |
now, that said, |
| 23:11 |
VanessaE |
imho there *are* a few nodes in plantlife that would be good candidates for inclusion in a vanilla game |
| 23:12 |
VanessaE |
such as say one type of fruit bush, maybe one of the beach-ready grasses |
| 23:13 |
sofar |
I'm thinking vines are a good addition. Make them craftable into rope |
| 23:13 |
VanessaE |
maybe. |
| 23:13 |
Dragonop |
I think the fruit bushes need retexturing and remodeling if you want to add them to mtgame |
| 23:14 |
VanessaE |
don't use the existing vines code though, it's got a few bugs and is perhaps overthought |
| 23:14 |
VanessaE |
Dragonop: make them plantlike drawtype like they used to be |
| 23:15 |
VanessaE |
I'm sure the old textures can be found with some effort. |
| 23:15 |
Dragonop |
VanessaE, seems like a good idea |
| 23:19 |
paramat |
vines should hang from under leaves/branches not signlike hanging off the side of trees, otherwise a 5x5 tree is doubled in volume to 7x7 and unavoidable gaps are created between trees |
| 23:19 |
paramat |
plantlike drawtype perhaps |
| 23:19 |
VanessaE |
make a new leaves texture that includes the vines already hanging off? |
| 23:20 |
Dragonop |
^ |
| 23:20 |
VanessaE |
in a normal working environment though, the vines are added after the trees have spawned. |
| 23:20 |
VanessaE |
no new spaces are created, so the trees' volume remains unchanged. |
| 23:21 |
sofar |
paramat: we can do a trick |
| 23:22 |
sofar |
paramat: hang the vines facing OUT on the outside of the 5x5 |
| 23:22 |
sofar |
that way they look like they're on the outside, but they're actually inside |
| 23:22 |
VanessaE |
the problem comes when trying to cut the vines - the existing code makes a lot of effort to cutting down whole strings of them. |
| 23:22 |
sofar |
it even digs holes in the ground when you do |
| 23:23 |
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| 23:23 |
VanessaE |
yeah, there's an issue open somewhere about that. |
| 23:23 |
VanessaE |
the existing mod puts vines on the bottom-side of dirt(_with_grass) blocks as well. not sure how much I like that idea, but it's been that way since forever |
| 23:24 |
paramat |
yeah good trick |
| 23:25 |
sofar |
paramat: then make vines cut by craftable into rope |
| 23:25 |
sofar |
something you could use in caves to descend |
| 23:25 |
sofar |
e.g. if you place a 5-stack of rope on a ceiling, it would descend 5 nodes down |
| 23:25 |
VanessaE |
I like that idea. |
| 23:25 |
sofar |
would be fun to do it with 99 :) |
| 23:26 |
VanessaE |
make sure they can self-extend. |
| 23:26 |
sofar |
maybe limit it to 12 and repeatable |
| 23:26 |
sofar |
yes |
| 23:26 |
VanessaE |
place a stack of 5 against the bottom of a vine, it goes down another 5 |
| 23:26 |
sofar |
cool, I'll see if I can code that up nicely |
| 23:26 |
sofar |
after 0.4.14 gets release ;)) |
| 23:26 |
kaadmy |
been thinking about something similar for Pixture :D |
| 23:26 |
kaadmy |
extending ropes |
| 23:27 |
sofar |
could also make other uses for rope later on |
| 23:27 |
kaadmy |
climbing? ;) |
| 23:27 |
VanessaE |
sofar: would you mind adding appropriate aliases into mt_game so I can discontinue the vines mod in plantlife? |
| 23:27 |
sofar |
sure, I'll consider that, yes |
| 23:27 |
VanessaE |
thanks. |
| 23:27 |
sofar |
reasonable enough |
| 23:27 |
Dragonop |
xDecor has that kind of ropes |
| 23:30 |
sofar |
I'll talk with kilbith |
| 23:30 |
Dragonop |
Rightclicking a rope with a rope could extend its length |
| 23:32 |
sofar |
right |
| 23:42 |
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