Time  Nick       Message
10:29 Megaf      Hi folks.
10:48 paramat    #3887 is needed but merge fails due to line endings problems, any ideas how i can get this to merge? i might try replacing every line ending in my text editor
10:48 ShadowBot  https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3887 -- Shaders: Reduce amplitude of waving leaves and plants by paramat
11:05 neoascetic Tests for OSX failed. Again: https://travis-ci.org/minetest/minetest/jobs/117501722
11:05 neoascetic I think it is better to rewrite the test. It is machine/speed/something-else dependent
11:05 paramat    that fail happens often, there's an issue for it
11:06 neoascetic Oh, okay
11:06 paramat    it happens on good PRs
11:06 red-001    It happens on all PRs
11:07 paramat    builds are failing so often now i rarely take notice of them =/
11:07 neoascetic May I have a link to issue, please?
11:07 neoascetic #3786
11:07 ShadowBot  https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3786 -- Unreliably failing unittests on mac
11:07 neoascetic got it
11:43 red-001    #3900
11:43 ShadowBot  https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3900 -- Add a button for disabling all mods to world config. by red-001
11:45 paramat    nore sfan5 ShadowNinja PilzAdam reviews needed for game#908 game#957 game#959 game#862 game#962 game#964 game#945
11:45 ShadowBot  https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/908 -- Default: New jungletree_top texture with square character by paramat
11:45 ShadowBot  https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/957 -- Doors: Allow schematic placement of wooden doors. by sofar
11:45 ShadowBot  https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/959 -- Default: Make some plant nodes non-flammable by paramat
11:45 ShadowBot  https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/862 -- Tnt: Improvements by sofar
11:45 ShadowBot  https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/962 -- Fire: Allow placing only above flammable blocks by kilbith
11:45 ShadowBot  https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/964 -- Books: Move page buttons at the bottom by kilbith
11:45 ShadowBot  https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/945 -- Creative: Code cleaning + Fix items moving in virtual inventory by kilbith2
11:46 nore       paramat: 945 is +1 from me once it is tested
11:46 paramat    ok
11:46 sfan5      wat
11:46 sfan5      why would a tree have perfectly square inner structure
11:47 paramat    i tried rounding the corners but it looked bad
11:47 sfan5      paramat: https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/pull/908#issuecomment-195664426
11:48 paramat    all our trees have square structure :)
11:48 sfan5      yeah but not like this
11:49 paramat    i tried adding those rounded corners to my cross-shape, it looked really bad
11:49 paramat    that texture ignores the 4 lianas
11:49 sfan5      but why do we want to plus inside the tree
11:50 paramat    that's explained in my comments
11:50 paramat    it looks cool and has character
11:51 sfan5      i disagree
11:51 red-001    I looks strange to me
11:51 paramat    heh textures are difficult merges
11:53 sfan5      paramat: approve 957 and 959
11:54 paramat    ok
11:56 paramat    i'll try to test 945 later
11:58 paramat    then i'll merge another batch
12:02 paramat    i'll re-try rounding my texture
12:10 sfan5      paramat: 964 is ok too
12:11 paramat    ok
12:20 red-001    #969
12:20 ShadowBot  https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/969 -- Refactor the main method in main.cpp
12:20 red-001    game#969
12:20 ShadowBot  https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/969 -- Remove `default:dirt_with_grass_footsteps` and add alias. by red-001
12:22 paramat    ^ VanessaE i seem to remember it's used on some servers?
12:28 red-001    so should I keep the texture?
12:29 red-001    that way servers can re add it more easily
12:31 paramat    we may have to keep the node, best wait for more input
13:20 VanessaE   keep the node, paramat.
13:20 VanessaE   some servers/games use it.
13:27 nore       I'd say, keep the node, even if it can't be obtained without creative or /giveme
13:27 sfan5      ^ ack
13:29 nore       game#852 should be tested and merged before 0.4.14 I think
13:29 ShadowBot  https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/852 -- Call on_place_node() callbacks after placing door. by sofar
13:29 nore       #game#862 I meabt
13:29 nore       grrr
13:29 VanessaE   bbl
13:30 nore       well, the TNT one
15:28 paramat    945 is tested and shift-clicking works
15:31 paramat    nore sfan5 agree to close game#969 ?
15:31 ShadowBot  https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/969 -- Remove `default:dirt_with_grass_footsteps` and add alias. by red-001
15:31 sfan5      yes
15:34 paramat    ok
15:35 paramat    done
15:36 paramat    will soon merge games 893 945 957 958 959 960 964 968 =P'
15:42 paramat    now merging
15:56 paramat    merged
16:44 est31      paramat, what PR is do you think more important: the metadata PR or the noclip one?
16:44 VanessaE   metadata.
16:45 est31      both still needs lots of work
16:45 VanessaE   which one's the noclip one?
16:46 paramat    erm metadata, but noclip is needed for new doors
16:46 est31      #3894
16:46 ShadowBot  https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3894 -- Add serverside noclip enforcement by est31
16:46 est31      well which one is more important
16:46 Fixer      paramat, not only new doors
16:46 est31      i dont think i have time for fixing both this week
16:46 paramat    i guess both unfortunately, happy to delay freeze
16:47 Fixer      paramat, it is not just doors, there are a lot of problems with cheaters that it can solve (noclip mining, or going through any block)
16:47 paramat    hmm
16:48 paramat    perhaps noclip is then if it's essential for new doors
16:48 paramat    metadata would be really nice to have in but isn't as essential
16:48 Fixer      paramat, right now cheater can go through any block and mine everything, with this PR it will not
16:48 est31      noclip needs path search improvement
16:48 est31      metadata pr needs bugfixing
16:49 Fixer      please, delay the freeze
16:49 paramat    man these new doors have caused trouble
16:49 Fixer      why so much rush?
16:49 paramat    no rush
16:49 est31      its not rush
16:49 est31      why so feature creep :)
16:51 paramat    i almost feel the minor advantages of mesh doors are not worth the trouble and complexity (but hate to say it after so much good work by sofar)
16:51 paramat    still i'll stay neutral on that for now :)
16:52 VanessaE   est31: metadata is more important imho
16:52 VanessaE   fewer people are affected by noclip bugs, imho
16:52 est31      fewer?
16:52 est31      people lag into houses all the time
16:53 VanessaE   sure, but *everyone* is affected by performance problems caused by excessive metadata changes :)
16:53 paramat    yeah hmm
16:54 paramat    perhaps we should delay freeze
16:54 paramat    and aask other devs for help on these 2
16:54 paramat    (ask)
17:00 paramat    ok i would say metadata, and leave noclip to someone else
17:03 paramat    and i'm holding freeze until further notice
17:04 VanessaE   so you're freezing the freeze? :P
17:05 est31      hehe
17:06 paramat    lol
17:07 VanessaE   I would say start the freeze and just run it for longer
17:08 VanessaE   it's not like you're adding features anyway
17:10 paramat    guess it depends on when we consider these 2 PRs 'merged'. anyway announced and lets see how stuff goes over the next few days
17:25 srifqi     paramat, I've some question in 2561. (I've updated my last comment)
17:26 paramat    !tell ShadowNinja is it possible you could work on noclip 3894 so est can concentrate on metadata 3848?
17:26 ShadowBot  paramat: O.K.
17:26 paramat    ok looking
17:30 paramat    i'll list the defaults
17:37 paramat    replied
17:37 srifqi     i've read your reply
17:39 srifqi     thanks for reply, i'll work asap 'cause it's already late night here (0.39 a.m.)
17:39 paramat    est31 since you have a grip on 3848 i recommend focussing on that
17:39 paramat    ok
17:41 Hunterz    anyone familiar with worldedit? Does MT WE //undo command or something similar?
17:56 Obani      Hunterz, no
17:56 Hunterz    :(
17:56 Obani      paramat, is #3893 mergeable ?
17:57 ShadowBot  https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3893 -- Credits: Make that easy to add/remove by Rui914
18:06 ssieb      Any comments on https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/3899 ?  Would be nice to get in for 0.4.14...
18:10 paramat    3893 is low priority
18:11 paramat    we're having to prioritise and we're half frozen so ..
18:17 * ssieb    should have read the topic more carefully.
18:17 ssieb      I didn't realize how close freeze was :-/
18:35 sofar      paramat: the *one* thing that is imho still worth it for doors is that it's only one node update to open/close doors
18:35 sofar      we could have done the API changes without it, of course
18:35 sofar      but only having 1 node update state is a lot cleaner and safer
18:36 ssieb      Is it enough to make a pull request or should I create an issue as well?
18:43 Fixer      sofar, it is fine, noclip will solve it anyway and many other problems
18:49 paramat    yes i was just grumbling, we should of course continue on with the new doors
18:52 paramat    Minetest is semi-frozen, it's in the fridge door next to the fruit juices
18:54 rom1504    so, if we cut the power, minetest will get more activity ?
18:58 celeron55  it will rot and spoil
18:58 rom1504    ah damn
19:03 Krock      vacumize it then
19:03 Krock      it will prevent Minetest from rot
19:03 Krock      for a while at least
19:04 ssieb      paramat: Is it enough to make a pull request or should I create an issue as well?
19:08 paramat    just the PR is ok we can discuss there, perhaps add more description to explain what this fixes
19:09 ssieb      ok
19:13 sofar      paramat: I'm very aware that the whole doors PR has been a massive learning curve for me ;)
19:16 red-001    sofar the maximum intensity for TNT should be dependent on the size of the explosion
19:16 red-001    or versa
19:16 red-001    or vice versa
19:16 sofar      yes, we need to calculate a square inverse curve to make intensity based on radius
19:17 sofar      this is why I protested against using radius earlier
19:17 sofar      but, we can inverse calculate it
19:17 paramat    ah hm good point
19:17 sofar      the conversion factor will be a weird constant, though
19:18 sofar      red-001: did you see my TNT video btw?
19:18 sofar      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c3G-52FV4SI&list=PL0q7atYslWifTuX60rtCaocQiYUSdtZJP&index=3
19:19 red-001    yeah
19:19 paramat    assume the outermost removed node always has the same 'intensity'. 'intensity = 1 at midrange of normal tnt' means at radius 2 of radius 3 tnt
19:20 paramat    or something
19:20 sofar      right
19:21 sofar      I'll have to math that out
19:21 paramat    or maybe just have intensity = 1 at outermost removed node
19:21 red-001    that would make more sense
19:23 paramat    simpler, more intuitive, simpler maths
19:23 sofar      actually no
19:24 sofar      I had some nice and easy math model laid out before
19:24 sofar      but y'all pooped over it
19:24 paramat    yeah i remember disagreeing
19:24 sofar      so, it's going to be a kludge
19:24 sofar      because you guys think that expressing "TNT intensity" as "radius" is a good idea
19:25 sofar      the radius is a consequence OF the intensity
19:25 sofar      the intensity is the *energy* of the tnt
19:25 sofar      that, is simple math
19:25 sofar      :P
19:26 paramat    intensity = (1 / radius ^ 2) * destructionradius ^ 2 ?
19:27 paramat    = 1 at edge, falls as inverse-square
19:27 sofar      the whole problem is moot anyway
19:27 sofar      we never calculate intensity for nodes getting destroyed
19:28 Obani      sofar, your connected nodeboxes are really good looking :D
19:28 red-001    so the feature freeze is today?
19:29 paramat    it's more there for mods. with that equation node is removed at intensity >= 1
19:29 paramat    fridge door
19:30 sofar      https://github.com/sofar/minetest_game/blob/tnt/mods/tnt/init.lua#L247
19:31 sofar      the "1" in that line... that's the problem
19:31 red-001    but what to replace it with?
19:31 sofar      so here's my proposal
19:31 sofar      1) keep radius
19:31 sofar      2) internally, convert radius to *actual* tnt intensity/energy
19:32 sofar      3) then do math based on the actual energy
19:32 ssieb      paramat: ok, I've added a (hopefully clear) explanation of why my change is useful
19:33 red-001    all math or only `on_blast` related?
19:34 sofar      why would we do a bad job at it?
19:34 sofar      if the internal conversion is good, it doesn't matter
19:34 sofar      maybe one day with proper math, we can make softer materials explode futher
19:35 sofar      and harder materials explode less
19:35 sofar      so the size of the hole becomes variable
19:35 sofar      e.g. group:ore is hardest, group:stone less hard, group:cracky even less
19:35 red-001    so rewrite explode?
19:36 sofar      to actually calculate intensity per node, yes, and compare it to a threshold
19:36 sofar      that would be awesome for sedimentology as well
19:37 sofar      now I have to do this: https://github.com/minetest-mods/sedimentology/blob/master/nodes.lua
19:39 red-001    well that wouldn't work too well with voxel manipulator
19:40 sofar      sure it will
19:40 sofar      doesn't make a difference at all
19:40 red-001    It does
19:40 paramat    intensity = (destructionradius ^ 2) / (MAX(radius, 1) ^ 2) = 1 at edge
19:40 red-001    you need to select an area of the map
19:41 sofar      just make it large enough
19:41 red-001    that would be slower
19:41 sofar      it's fast enough
19:41 sofar      did you see my radius=8 explosion?
19:42 sofar      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QSLOp0afutA
19:42 sofar      tell me that that was slow
19:42 red-001    I created an radius 12 explosion
19:43 red-001    I know it's fast
19:43 sofar      besides that, the extra radius needed beyond 3 would probably be only 1-2 extra blocks
19:47 red-001    the amount of drops seems to be the largest limiting factor on explosions
19:48 sofar      F = U / r^2 <= the core forumula
19:48 sofar      U = energy
19:48 sofar      F = force
19:48 sofar      r = radius (or distance)
19:49 sofar      if you want to have a F of 1 at radius 3, then logically U = 9
19:49 sofar      so, we can express U (tnt "energy") as "radius*radius"
19:49 Krock      isn't P = energy?
19:49 sofar      P is power
19:50 Krock      force [N], radius [m] -> Nm -> Joule -> Ws
19:50 Krock      it's power! :P
19:50 sofar      ah , sure, very good
19:50 sofar      someone is paying attention!
19:51 Krock      nah, just clicked on this tab and seen that
19:52 sofar      anyway, now we have a trivial formula to calculate intensity at any radius
19:52 sofar      based on tntradius
19:52 Krock      and other trivial power conversion method
19:52 sofar      P = tntradius*tntradius / radius*radius
19:53 sofar      (where radius is never smaller than 1.0)
19:53 Krock      aww fuck. It's not P, it's W.
19:53 Krock      P is just Watt where W contains the time aswell
19:54 sofar      Nm would be correct, I think
19:54 Krock      yeah, and so is Joule ;)
19:54 sofar      but that's the unit, not the symbol :)
19:54 sofar      (darn convention letters)
19:55 paramat    that's identical to my equation
19:55 sofar      anyway, logically from that curves follow that Nm can't be larger than 0.25 at r=6, for instance, so there's no need to make the voxelmanip that huge
19:55 sofar      it gets smaller pretty easily
19:56 sofar      paramat: yup, it is
19:56 paramat    ok lets update th etnt PR with that
19:56 paramat    (the tnt)
19:57 paramat    nore sfan5 ShadowNinja i updated game#908
19:57 ShadowBot  https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/908 -- Default: New jungletree_top texture with square character by paramat
19:58 sfan5      now it's diamond formed
19:58 sfan5      i still prefer the texture the way it is
19:59 paramat    current one is too round and the lianas are too thin
20:00 Obani      paramat, current one is not good, but your new one is worse :s
20:01 paramat    lol
20:01 Obani      I like Rui914's proposal
20:01 sofar      compare them with the other trees
20:01 paramat    that one ignores the lianas
20:01 Obani      Actually it just doesn't fit in any way with the environment
20:02 sofar      well jungles are the worst biome right now
20:02 paramat    it perfectly fits the structure of the side texture
20:02 Obani      No
20:02 sofar      we all hate the side texture
20:02 sofar      lol
20:02 Obani      It doesn't fit at all
20:03 Obani      Just look at the environment and see if it goes out of your view obviously
20:03 Obani      Of course it fits with that lianas thing
20:03 Obani      Bu nobody cares about looking if there are lianas :p
21:03 paramat    thoughts on #3655 ? i support. mgv7 still has a lighting bug at y = 63 but i think making a good impression on reviewers etc is worth it
21:03 ShadowBot  https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3655 -- Defaulting to Mapgen V7
21:05 paramat    ^ hmmmm
21:21 hmmmm      i dunno, that's more of a question for everybody else
21:21 hmmmm      ask celeron what he thinks
21:22 hmmmm      i'm really curious about his opinion on the matter
21:23 sofar      +1
21:23 celeron55  what about all the other options
21:23 nrzkt      http://servers.minetest.net/
21:24 nrzkt      v6 and v7 seems to be equal for the most active servers
21:24 celeron55  v5 was what many people realized loving about minetest when v6 had been around for a bit
21:24 nrzkt      also v5 isn't used in public servers and seems unpopular
21:25 celeron55  well, it has been around in 0.4 for less time and people probably float towards higher numbers
21:26 celeron55  i mean, i'm not seriously suggesting it, but i have almost just as little reason to suggest v7
21:29 hmmmm      i think it's a perception thing thanks to the number versioning
21:29 nrzkt      yes version number is important
21:31 celeron55  but i mean, seriously, try v5 sometimes
21:31 celeron55  it will make you smile
21:31 celeron55  it's like "hey, we have this completely freeform voxel world; how about actually using it"
21:39 celeron55  v7's problem is that it is constantly too large-scale and sparing in detail
21:40 celeron55  v5's problem is that it's constantly very playful and just crams the whole world full of small detail that gets repetitive after a while
21:41 celeron55  v6 kind of avoids doing both of those things, instead doing its own signature pattern, kind of
21:43 celeron55  really, there needs to be something with more balls
21:46 celeron55  in my opinion the ideal default mapgen should be able to generate at least both, v5 and v7 like stuff in the same world
21:46 red-001    what about valleys ?
21:46 celeron55  (and why not v6 too)
21:46 red-001    is that too unstable?
21:47 hmmmm      well i did learn something valuable from v7 - making a good mapgen is difficult
21:47 hmmmm      i suppose you could literally take v7/v5/v6 and mix the terrain together using large-scale perlin noise
21:47 hmmmm      but then the interpolation between them all would make its own unique yet monotonous blob
21:48 hmmmm      in order for mapgen mixing to work, the interpolation would need to be relatively sharp
21:48 celeron55  i think creating a meta-mapgen that just mixes up individual mapgens could be worth a try
21:49 celeron55  it doesn't even need to be perfect; just something kind of plausible enough
21:50 celeron55  red-001: it kind of is a one-trick pony too
21:50 celeron55  mapgens love being one trick ponies; it allows them to be efficient in the one thting
21:50 red-001    true
21:50 celeron55  thing*
21:55 celeron55  so, really
21:55 celeron55  i don't think v7 would make a good impression on reviewers or anything
21:56 celeron55  you usually spawn on some flat hills with nothing to be seen anywhere; then if you fly fast to some direction you end up to some medium-sized but very boring mountains
21:56 celeron55  with v6, at least the initial impression is more like "this is an okay hilly forest"
21:58 celeron55  with v5, the initial impression is like "there is a weird-shaped floating blob of rock in front of me above this medium-sized body of water"
22:02 celeron55  with valleys, the initial impression is "this is a very hilly forest with small rivers in it" and then at some point you realize those are spaced apart by medium-sized mountains with nothing interesting on them
22:08 celeron55  the thing about map generators is that they allow you to replace static pre-made content with an arbitrary amount of generated content
22:08 celeron55  but it's an illusion
22:08 celeron55  the content is the map generator, and when it runs out of new things to generate, that content has run out like any static content would
22:12 celeron55  the "run out" threshold is hard to notice - at the point a player notices it, they are quite fed up with it already and might not still understand what it even is that they are fed up with 8)
22:13 red-001    why does mg_flat generate caves?
22:14 red-001    and dungeons
22:16 red-001    it isn't really flat
22:25 paramat    mgv7 isn't completely stable yet, if we insist on that for the default
22:25 sofar      apart from tree massacres though, any other issues?
22:29 paramat    good points. mgv6 is good for beginners and the biomes are not huge
22:30 paramat    i watched a let's play last night in mgv7, it was the usual 'spawn in grassland biome "there's no trees"' thing
22:31 sofar      that's why I really think we should add some scarce mini-tree-shrubs to grassland
22:31 paramat    seems to freak some people out if they're used to minecraft
22:31 sofar      e.g. one stump and 5 leaves
22:31 paramat    i thought that too, bushes
22:31 sofar      make it really sparse, but still, just a few pieces
22:32 sofar      we can re-use them in jungles as well
22:32 sofar      to make the ground cover more varied and really bush-bush like
22:33 paramat    bushes would be good for savanna too
22:33 sofar      tbh that's what I hate about jungles. to me, jungles are high-diversity eco systems
22:33 sofar      our current jungles have 2 things, really
22:33 paramat    hmm so perhaps we stick to mgv6 for now
22:33 sofar      set a goal for 0.4.15 to improve decorations
22:34 sofar      do it early, right after 0.4.14
22:34 sofar      maybe open an issue already so we can track and discuss
22:36 paramat    i'll put this on my todo list
22:37 nore       to my mind, jungles would look a lot better if there were different kind of trees and otger vegetation in them
22:38 nore       that is, at least two different kinds of trees, and some big trees (and wide too)
22:38 paramat    mgflat is meant to be, or configurable to be, a complete mapgen with lots of flat ground for building / cities. that's why there are options for simple lakes and hills too
22:38 nore       maybe vines from bas080's mod, that adds another kind of vegetation in the air
22:39 nore       and another kind of vegetation on the ground maybe too
22:39 sofar      there's several vines, I have some ideas for them
22:40 nore       also, I think that jungles could be greener
22:40 nore       imho, textures lack green saturation for something that is supposed to be a rainforest
22:41 paramat    you'd like Gambit's texture pack
22:43 nore       hm, I should give it a try :)
22:43 nore       but nevertheless, jungles lack vegetation, I guess this should be added for 0.4.15
22:44 paramat    nore https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/pull/880#issuecomment-190225443
22:45 nore       paramat: thanks !
22:45 * nore     goes to bed now
22:54 celeron55  many mods and subgames do map generation with a lot of stuff quite well
22:54 celeron55  there's not much need to invent anything new there; just look at what works and implement it
22:57 celeron55  how this development should probably work is that the core mapgen generates something, and mods add stuff over it; then it's looked at what mods generally do and that stuff is added to the core mapgen so that it can be done faster, and then mods start using that functionality and can move to figure out more new stuff over it
23:00 VanessaE   oh screw it, just add biome_lib, moretrees, and the whole plantlife modpack. Get it overwith ;)
23:05 sofar      I don't like mods that replace (we're missing one or two variants of X) with (add 25 variants of X)
23:05 sofar      they don't solve any problem
23:05 sofar      they don't make singleplayer more interesting
23:06 sofar      they make things for multiplayer often worse
23:06 sofar      they're only good for creative
23:06 sofar      and barely at that
23:09 VanessaE   I was joking :P
23:10 sofar      I know
23:11 VanessaE   now, that said,
23:11 VanessaE   imho there *are* a few nodes in plantlife that would be good candidates for inclusion in a vanilla game
23:12 VanessaE   such as say one type of fruit bush, maybe one of the beach-ready grasses
23:13 sofar      I'm thinking vines are a good addition. Make them craftable into rope
23:13 VanessaE   maybe.
23:13 Dragonop   I think the fruit bushes need retexturing and remodeling if you want to add them to mtgame
23:14 VanessaE   don't use the existing vines code though, it's got a few bugs and is perhaps overthought
23:14 VanessaE   Dragonop: make them plantlike drawtype like they used to be
23:15 VanessaE   I'm sure the old textures can be found with some effort.
23:15 Dragonop   VanessaE, seems like a good idea
23:19 paramat    vines should hang from under leaves/branches not signlike hanging off the side of trees, otherwise a 5x5 tree is doubled in volume to 7x7 and unavoidable gaps are created between trees
23:19 paramat    plantlike drawtype perhaps
23:19 VanessaE   make a new leaves texture that includes the vines already hanging off?
23:20 Dragonop   ^
23:20 VanessaE   in a normal working environment though, the vines are added after the trees have spawned.
23:20 VanessaE   no new spaces are created, so the trees' volume remains unchanged.
23:21 sofar      paramat: we can do a trick
23:22 sofar      paramat: hang the vines facing OUT on the outside of the 5x5
23:22 sofar      that way they look like they're on the outside, but they're actually inside
23:22 VanessaE   the problem comes when trying to cut the vines - the existing code makes a lot of effort to cutting down whole strings of them.
23:22 sofar      it even digs holes in the ground when you do
23:23 VanessaE   yeah, there's an issue open somewhere about that.
23:23 VanessaE   the existing mod puts vines on the bottom-side of dirt(_with_grass) blocks as well.  not sure how much I like that idea, but it's been that way since forever
23:24 paramat    yeah good trick
23:25 sofar      paramat: then make vines cut by craftable into rope
23:25 sofar      something you could use in caves to descend
23:25 sofar      e.g. if you place a 5-stack of rope on a ceiling, it would descend 5 nodes down
23:25 VanessaE   I like that idea.
23:25 sofar      would be fun to do it with 99 :)
23:26 VanessaE   make sure they can self-extend.
23:26 sofar      maybe limit it to 12 and repeatable
23:26 sofar      yes
23:26 VanessaE   place a stack of 5 against the bottom of a vine, it goes down another 5
23:26 sofar      cool, I'll see if I can code that up nicely
23:26 sofar      after 0.4.14 gets release ;))
23:26 kaadmy     been thinking about something similar for Pixture :D
23:26 kaadmy     extending ropes
23:27 sofar      could also make other uses for rope later on
23:27 kaadmy     climbing? ;)
23:27 VanessaE   sofar: would you mind adding appropriate aliases into mt_game so I can discontinue the vines mod in plantlife?
23:27 sofar      sure, I'll consider that, yes
23:27 VanessaE   thanks.
23:27 sofar      reasonable enough
23:27 Dragonop   xDecor has that kind of ropes
23:30 sofar      I'll talk with kilbith
23:30 Dragonop   Rightclicking a rope with a rope could extend its length
23:32 sofar      right