| Time |
Nick |
Message |
| 00:49 |
|
paramat joined #minetest-dev |
| 00:55 |
paramat |
i updated #3146 to calculate displacement 'disp' only once for use with leaves and/or plants, much more efficient because these 2 options are usually used together. also, as tuned yesterday, much less compression/stretching of leaves. can anyone review/approve? |
| 00:55 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3146 -- Shaders: Use triple-frequency waving for leaves and plants by paramat |
| 00:56 |
paramat |
now i will reduce the heat/humidity spreads of mgv5/v7 biomes back to 750, as biomes get too big |
| 01:18 |
RealBadAngel |
paramat, feels ok, but on the other hand, plants seen from above makes too visible square patterns imho, twisting movement you have eliminated helped there a bit |
| 01:19 |
RealBadAngel |
you should think about rotating plants to avoid that and bring more variety to the world |
| 01:19 |
paramat |
thanks. yes i noticed the twisting before |
| 01:20 |
RealBadAngel |
just set randomly param2 of plants |
| 01:21 |
paramat |
as you know i'm not keen on plant rotation :) |
| 01:21 |
RealBadAngel |
yeah yeah you love squares, yet you now like round minimap ;) |
| 01:22 |
paramat |
yes i prefer the round map because it rotates around the player and has no player marker |
| 01:23 |
paramat |
#3152 |
| 01:23 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3152 -- Mgv5/mgv7 biomes: Reduce heat and humidity noise spreads to former value of 750 by paramat |
| 01:24 |
RealBadAngel |
but seriously plant jungle grass on 10x10 area and look at it from above |
| 01:24 |
RealBadAngel |
they make a grid |
| 01:25 |
paramat |
i like the diagonal pattern, i find it suitable for a voxel world |
| 01:25 |
RealBadAngel |
without twisting it looks even worse |
| 01:26 |
RealBadAngel |
what you called more natural look is non changing diagonal pattern |
| 01:26 |
RealBadAngel |
all over the area |
| 01:27 |
paramat |
guess i should disturb hmmmm because of my PR above (i miss you) |
| 01:27 |
RealBadAngel |
you should rather say "more natural voxel look" ;) |
| 01:28 |
RealBadAngel |
anyway, im ok with the code. i will just apply rotation to the plants to avoid those patterns |
| 01:29 |
paramat |
thanks for looking |
| 01:30 |
RealBadAngel |
btw, another issue, why the heck if i update meta for one node, server updates meta for every node around? |
| 01:32 |
paramat |
neighbours or whole mapblock? |
| 01:32 |
paramat |
well i dunno |
| 01:34 |
RealBadAngel |
propably whole mapblock |
| 01:35 |
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| 01:35 |
RealBadAngel |
i noticed that with signs, i have 3 signs next to each other, and when i edit just one, client is deserializng meta for all of them again |
| 01:37 |
RealBadAngel |
awww lol |
| 01:37 |
RealBadAngel |
thats pretty funny |
| 01:37 |
RealBadAngel |
ive put there 6 chests |
| 01:38 |
RealBadAngel |
editing one signs is causing server to send all 9 metas to the client |
| 01:46 |
RealBadAngel |
no wonder inventory operations are so laggy |
| 01:54 |
paramat |
now merging 3152 |
| 01:59 |
paramat |
complete |
| 02:30 |
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| 03:09 |
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| 03:19 |
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| 03:42 |
paramat |
i might merge the waving changes later, i *think* i have enough approval and testing now, and have reduced the squishing on est31's request |
| 04:02 |
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| 04:34 |
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| 05:43 |
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| 05:45 |
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| 05:54 |
paramat |
~tell est31 thought i'd mention i had a 'cmakefiles' folder pop up unexpectedly in one of my branches in 'src/threading/', it contained 'cmakedirectoryinformation.cmake' and 'progress.marks'. git didn't gitignore it |
| 05:54 |
ShadowBot |
paramat: O.K. |
| 05:57 |
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| 06:00 |
paramat |
now merging #3146 |
| 06:00 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3146 -- Shaders: Use triple-frequency waving for leaves and plants by paramat |
| 06:00 |
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| 06:03 |
paramat |
ah bums 'patch does not apply' |
| 06:03 |
paramat |
will do this another time |
| 06:45 |
paramat |
fractal mapgen is ready for merge in a basic form, but i have hit a bemusing bug https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/3088#issuecomment-134002097 |
| 06:45 |
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| 06:45 |
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| 07:03 |
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| 07:42 |
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| 07:50 |
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| 07:51 |
rubenwardy |
#3153 |
| 07:51 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3153 -- Override groups by rubenwardy |
| 07:51 |
rubenwardy |
just rebasing to remove bad commit |
| 07:54 |
rubenwardy |
done |
| 07:54 |
rubenwardy |
#3153 |
| 07:54 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3153 -- Add minetest.override_item_groups by rubenwardy |
| 08:00 |
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| 08:16 |
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| 08:29 |
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| 08:46 |
rubenwardy |
nvalid block data in database - https://gist.github.com/rubenwardy/a0362922ebe85e6b27b6 |
| 08:46 |
rubenwardy |
Invalid block data in database - https://gist.github.com/rubenwardy/a0362922ebe85e6b27b6 |
| 08:46 |
rubenwardy |
hmmmm |
| 08:53 |
rubenwardy |
https://www.dropbox.com/s/jnatised6nya4fg/world.zip?dl=0 |
| 08:54 |
rubenwardy |
#2610 |
| 08:54 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2610 -- Invalid block data in database: unsupported NameIdMapping version |
| 09:02 |
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| 09:31 |
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| 10:02 |
rubenwardy |
I'm experiencing those 1/2 second jolts, but only when looking at unloaded blocks... |
| 11:49 |
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| 11:57 |
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| 12:01 |
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| 12:15 |
rubenwardy |
is #184 still present? |
| 12:15 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/184 -- Map-related FPS performance regression |
| 12:45 |
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| 14:10 |
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| 15:16 |
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| 15:36 |
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| 15:36 |
TenPlus1 |
Hi folks... |
| 15:36 |
TenPlus1 |
any devs in the house today ?? |
| 15:38 |
nrzkt |
? |
| 15:39 |
TenPlus1 |
hi nrz, a quick question about the serialize.h error ppl are having |
| 15:39 |
TenPlus1 |
https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=13177 <--- is 4aiman correct in his statement? |
| 15:40 |
nrzkt |
please build your servers as a release to avoid the assert |
| 15:41 |
nrzkt |
for a server it's better. |
| 15:41 |
TenPlus1 |
so using 0.4.13 stable would stop the serialize.h error altogether ??? |
| 15:42 |
nrzkt |
For the assert itself, a backtrace is needed to find which call send the wrong value |
| 15:42 |
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| 15:42 |
TenPlus1 |
I've run standalone server for a while and could not get that error to appear, until I teleported far beyond map limits |
| 15:43 |
TenPlus1 |
which leads me to believe the updatelistener bug on linux builds may be the cause |
| 15:43 |
TenPlus1 |
it teleports you far outside maps also which could crash server and cause same error |
| 15:43 |
nrzkt |
strange thing |
| 15:43 |
TenPlus1 |
nothing else causes it to happen |
| 15:45 |
TenPlus1 |
but... saying that, if 4aiman is right and a check statement could stop error happening and throw up an error instead of a crash... would it help future testing of builds ? |
| 15:46 |
red1 |
I added a node to a group but minetest.get node group still returns 0. What am I doing wrong? |
| 15:46 |
TenPlus1 |
red1, show your code plz |
| 15:47 |
TenPlus1 |
use pastebin |
| 15:49 |
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| 15:50 |
red1 |
http://pastebin.com/eeZSqgG5 |
| 15:53 |
TenPlus1 |
the command you are using is deprecated red1 |
| 15:53 |
TenPlus1 |
use minetest.registered_nodes[node].groups.groupname instead |
| 15:54 |
TenPlus1 |
e.g. minetest.registered_nodes["default:water_source"].groups.water |
| 15:54 |
red1 |
oh ok thanks |
| 15:54 |
TenPlus1 |
np :) |
| 15:56 |
red1 |
I though that the wiki meant get_node_level is deprecated |
| 15:57 |
TenPlus1 |
double-checking page... |
| 15:58 |
TenPlus1 |
apologies, you are right... I misread the command page... |
| 15:59 |
TenPlus1 |
although try the minetest.registered_nodes command to see if that works |
| 16:00 |
red1 |
yeah it works |
| 16:00 |
TenPlus1 |
:) |
| 16:08 |
TenPlus1 |
bye folks |
| 16:22 |
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| 17:32 |
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| 17:35 |
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| 17:37 |
rubenwardy |
#3153 |
| 17:37 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3153 -- Add minetest.override_item_groups by rubenwardy |
| 18:11 |
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| 18:11 |
TenPlus1 |
nrz, thanks for help earlier but their is no 0.4.13 stable build available for ubuntu/mint at this time |
| 18:15 |
TenPlus1 |
and the 0.4.13 ppa available on launchpad still has serialize.h error |
| 19:04 |
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| 19:27 |
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| 19:32 |
RealBadAngel |
guys, whos familiar with network code? ive found serious issue with metadata |
| 19:33 |
RealBadAngel |
im not familiar with it, and can see it would require lotsa changes |
| 19:35 |
RealBadAngel |
this is real nasty bug affecting both server and clients, more developed world (and more complex mods) the things get worse |
| 19:36 |
RealBadAngel |
well, its not a bug, its planned by whoever wrote that code |
| 19:36 |
RealBadAngel |
problem is that changing single node meta means sending whole block to the client |
| 19:37 |
RealBadAngel |
then client erases whole block metas, deserialize got ones |
| 19:37 |
RealBadAngel |
and do the same for all neighbouring blocks |
| 19:37 |
RealBadAngel |
then all the meshes for those blocks get updated |
| 19:38 |
RealBadAngel |
this is trigerred by simple moving something in a chest, or editing the sign, whatever operation on meta |
| 19:38 |
RealBadAngel |
mods like technic, pipeworks are then practically unuseable on servers |
| 19:39 |
RealBadAngel |
thx to that mechanism VEs spawns have few fps |
| 19:39 |
RealBadAngel |
server is busy sending blocks all over, clients regenerating meta and meshes |
| 19:46 |
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est31 joined #minetest-dev |
| 19:46 |
est31 |
paramat: will push #3146 for you |
| 19:46 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3146 -- Shaders: Use triple-frequency waving for leaves and plants by paramat |
| 19:46 |
est31 |
... if I remember how to apply it xD |
| 19:47 |
sfan5 |
git am |
| 19:47 |
RealBadAngel |
i just used copy paste |
| 19:47 |
est31 |
git am fails :) |
| 19:47 |
RealBadAngel |
est31, have you read what i wrote just before you came in? |
| 19:48 |
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| 19:48 |
est31 |
RealBadAngel, reading now |
| 19:48 |
RealBadAngel |
this single change is worth .14 imho |
| 19:48 |
RealBadAngel |
thats way too serious issue |
| 19:49 |
est31 |
first doing paramat's merge, ok? |
| 19:49 |
RealBadAngel |
no hurry, theres no fix for it yet lol |
| 19:51 |
Amaz |
Would it fix a bit/lot of server lag? |
| 19:51 |
RealBadAngel |
lot? shitload of lots |
| 19:51 |
RealBadAngel |
that issue renders well developed worlds unplayable |
| 19:52 |
Amaz |
That would make a lot of people happy :) |
| 19:52 |
RealBadAngel |
whats most funny approach to send whole block instead of single meta is called inside source as fix |
| 19:52 |
RealBadAngel |
thats because of compability with older clients |
| 19:54 |
est31 |
RealBadAngel, why do you have low FPS if you have to regenerate meshes? |
| 19:54 |
RealBadAngel |
i was always repeating where keeping compability with yrs old code leads |
| 19:54 |
RealBadAngel |
to serious fuckups in the end |
| 19:54 |
est31 |
whats your proposed behaviour? |
| 19:55 |
RealBadAngel |
est31 imagine technic machine and pipeworks moving item in and out of the inventory |
| 19:55 |
RealBadAngel |
theres shitload of machines around |
| 19:55 |
RealBadAngel |
each meta change triggers block update on client side |
| 19:55 |
RealBadAngel |
each block update is causing its neigbours update |
| 19:56 |
RealBadAngel |
result is 5-6 fps on VEs servers |
| 19:56 |
RealBadAngel |
on very decent machines |
| 19:56 |
est31 |
<RealBadAngel> each block update is causing its neigbours update <---- we had this, this is due to things like connected glass or raillike drawtype, to work on block border |
| 19:56 |
RealBadAngel |
hold on |
| 19:56 |
est31 |
RealBadAngel> each meta change triggers block update on client side <---- this is no bug, but a performance problem |
| 19:56 |
RealBadAngel |
take an item out of the chest |
| 19:57 |
RealBadAngel |
should it regenerate meshes for every block around? |
| 19:57 |
est31 |
no. |
| 19:58 |
RealBadAngel |
even regular furnace cooking items is causing mesh updates each cooked item |
| 19:58 |
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| 19:58 |
RealBadAngel |
solution is to send to client just single node meta |
| 19:58 |
RealBadAngel |
not the whole block |
| 19:59 |
est31 |
well that doesnt solve the actual problem |
| 19:59 |
RealBadAngel |
that will solve the problem |
| 19:59 |
est31 |
you say the problem is that meshes get regenerated when its not needed eg if you take out sth |
| 20:00 |
RealBadAngel |
hold your horses |
| 20:00 |
RealBadAngel |
lemme prepare some links for you |
| 20:01 |
RealBadAngel |
server.cpp line 926 |
| 20:02 |
RealBadAngel |
here we have a reason - single node meta change - action = send whole block with all nodes meta |
| 20:03 |
est31 |
well there are two issues here |
| 20:03 |
est31 |
1. meshes get regenerated when its not needed |
| 20:03 |
est31 |
2. if you change metadata, the changes are sent for the whole block |
| 20:04 |
RealBadAngel |
server.cpp line 2101 |
| 20:04 |
RealBadAngel |
the explanation why its done like that |
| 20:04 |
RealBadAngel |
1. is not the issue |
| 20:05 |
RealBadAngel |
regeneration of meshes is triggered because block was sent |
| 20:05 |
RealBadAngel |
thats normal action for block being sent and received |
| 20:05 |
RealBadAngel |
problem is in this case block should not be sent at all |
| 20:05 |
est31 |
to address 2. we should perhaps change protocol and add a message that only changes the metadata for a block |
| 20:06 |
RealBadAngel |
not add the message |
| 20:06 |
RealBadAngel |
fix the existing one |
| 20:06 |
RealBadAngel |
the meaning of it is clear |
| 20:06 |
RealBadAngel |
but what it does is Monthy Python joke |
| 20:07 |
RealBadAngel |
it does exactly the same like adding/removing node |
| 20:07 |
RealBadAngel |
event.type = MEET_BLOCK_NODE_METADATA_CHANGED; |
| 20:08 |
est31 |
ah I see now |
| 20:08 |
RealBadAngel |
this event should not in any case send a block |
| 20:08 |
RealBadAngel |
just a single meta |
| 20:08 |
est31 |
we can perhaps indeed adjust the change msg. |
| 20:08 |
RealBadAngel |
msg? |
| 20:08 |
est31 |
no need for .14 here, just a higher proto version |
| 20:08 |
est31 |
pkt sorry not msg |
| 20:08 |
RealBadAngel |
yes |
| 20:09 |
RealBadAngel |
but thats spreaded all over there |
| 20:09 |
RealBadAngel |
even in rollback |
| 20:09 |
RealBadAngel |
i meant .14 for the effects it can bring |
| 20:10 |
RealBadAngel |
that will allow servers to deploy complex mods again |
| 20:11 |
est31 |
I dont think 2. is that much of an issue... |
| 20:11 |
est31 |
but yeah it should be fixed |
| 20:12 |
RealBadAngel |
its damn huge blocker |
| 20:12 |
RealBadAngel |
with signs mod its even worse |
| 20:12 |
VanessaE |
est31: imagine a well-built-up area (spawn, perhaps) with hundreds of signs, machines, chests, and other stuff moving things around and causing singular meta updates. Seems to be that with the existing behavior, dozens of mapblocks are being sent for every meta update in such an area. |
| 20:12 |
RealBadAngel |
textures got deleted only on client shutdown |
| 20:12 |
est31 |
RealBadAngel, with signs mod you do need regular mesh updates, no? |
| 20:12 |
est31 |
I mean this is yet another problem |
| 20:13 |
RealBadAngel |
when metas get refreshed all the time without a reason textures are made all over |
| 20:13 |
est31 |
you propose to change features of the node depending on its meta |
| 20:13 |
est31 |
so how can that be achieved without updating the mesh? |
| 20:13 |
RealBadAngel |
dont look at the problem from the ass side |
| 20:13 |
est31 |
VanessaE, I see that it might cause network traffic, but I still doubt that this is the cause of the low FPS on such spawn areas |
| 20:14 |
est31 |
RealBadAngel, I have to look at every side of the problem, in order to solve it |
| 20:14 |
RealBadAngel |
server is spamming each client with blocks data |
| 20:14 |
VanessaE |
est31: it's just my theory. if metas are being updated and causing dozens-at-a-time mapblock refreshes on the client, at the very least it'll cause choppy FPS. |
| 20:14 |
RealBadAngel |
client are continuously regenerating meshes |
| 20:14 |
est31 |
VanessaE, mesh updates are done in mesh update thread not in main thread |
| 20:14 |
RealBadAngel |
need a proof join VE server |
| 20:15 |
RealBadAngel |
est31, it happens dozen of times each second |
| 20:15 |
VanessaE |
RealBadAngel: you benchmarked it? |
| 20:15 |
RealBadAngel |
each meta change means send a block |
| 20:16 |
RealBadAngel |
each block will cause 9 mesh updates |
| 20:16 |
RealBadAngel |
also, erase whole meta on client side for those blocks |
| 20:16 |
RealBadAngel |
and deserialize it |
| 20:17 |
RealBadAngel |
dont need to benchmark it, i can see clearly shitload of work needed to be done all over again |
| 20:17 |
RealBadAngel |
without a single reason for it |
| 20:17 |
RealBadAngel |
there are no magic dwarves here to do that all shit |
| 20:19 |
VanessaE |
still need to benchmark it. cut off all meta updates on your client and go visit VE-S |
| 20:19 |
est31 |
<RealBadAngel> dont need to benchmark it, i can see clearly shitload of work needed to be done all over again <----- thats the wrong way of approaching things |
| 20:19 |
VanessaE |
see how it compares to the normal client behaviopr |
| 20:19 |
VanessaE |
-p |
| 20:19 |
RealBadAngel |
i can easily disable that command and join your server VanessaE |
| 20:20 |
VanessaE |
RealBadAngel: that's the idea. |
| 20:22 |
RealBadAngel |
est31, thats absolutely right approach. when we do know that code is doing things in this case absolutely unnecessary |
| 20:22 |
RealBadAngel |
whatever time the code takes it means always NOT NECESSARY |
| 20:23 |
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| 20:23 |
est31 |
RealBadAngel, we just know that it sends unneccessary data |
| 20:23 |
RealBadAngel |
sending is less the problem |
| 20:23 |
RealBadAngel |
what it triggers is |
| 20:23 |
est31 |
but we cant say whether it is at all an issue on VE's servers |
| 20:23 |
est31 |
or whether the low fps is caused by sth else |
| 20:24 |
RealBadAngel |
wait, sending blocks all over is not the problem? |
| 20:24 |
RealBadAngel |
how much takes well developed block with lotsa machines, signs, inventories? |
| 20:24 |
est31 |
RealBadAngel, prove me wrong xD |
| 20:25 |
RealBadAngel |
lets say we have 10 clients |
| 20:25 |
est31 |
perhaps 4 kb of data |
| 20:25 |
VanessaE |
est31: well regardless of which thread mesh updates take place in, every time there IS one, it causes a tiny FPS lag, for me at least. add up enough of those, happening often enough and you've got a recipe for slow FPS |
| 20:25 |
RealBadAngel |
lets say meta changes (for one node) happens 10 times a second |
| 20:25 |
RealBadAngel |
10*10*4kb |
| 20:26 |
est31 |
RealBadAngel, have you measured that? |
| 20:26 |
RealBadAngel |
we just had here 10 machines |
| 20:26 |
est31 |
dont just say some number |
| 20:26 |
RealBadAngel |
and just 10 clients |
| 20:26 |
RealBadAngel |
thats very light scenario |
| 20:26 |
est31 |
but still it isn't *that* stupid |
| 20:26 |
RealBadAngel |
sending whole block? |
| 20:27 |
RealBadAngel |
thats DUMB |
| 20:27 |
est31 |
if you run the machine ABMs, and indeed every of those machine's inventories changes, the block is only sent once for all 10 machines changes, not ten times |
| 20:27 |
RealBadAngel |
not to use stronger words |
| 20:27 |
RealBadAngel |
add 20 signs to that |
| 20:27 |
RealBadAngel |
and 20 new textures on each refresh :P |
| 20:27 |
est31 |
well, gtg sleep. bye |
| 20:34 |
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| 21:01 |
VanessaE |
ok well since RealBadAngel is gonna hem and haw over it: here's his screenshot showing vastly-improved FPS by disabling... something that he hasn't said just what: https://imgrush.com/M9Ma6966sJt6.png |
| 21:02 |
nrzkt |
VanessaE: you made cross realm chat ? |
| 21:02 |
RealBadAngel |
lol |
| 21:02 |
VanessaE |
heh |
| 21:03 |
RealBadAngel |
we all do as it seems ;) |
| 21:03 |
VanessaE |
RealBadAngel: so...explain that screenshot |
| 21:03 |
VanessaE |
(also, don't mind the wrongly-oriented text on the right, foreground. signs_lib bug.) |
| 21:05 |
RealBadAngel |
the client is ignoring meta changes |
| 21:05 |
RealBadAngel |
thus it is pissing on continous request to update blocks |
| 21:06 |
RealBadAngel |
result = about 40 fps instead of 5-7 |
| 21:06 |
kahrl_ |
how does it detect whether a sent block is a meta change or a change of the bulk data? |
| 21:06 |
RealBadAngel |
theres special case |
| 21:06 |
RealBadAngel |
meant to send only meta changes |
| 21:07 |
RealBadAngel |
but whoever coded it, decided to send whole block there to keep compability with older clients |
| 21:07 |
RealBadAngel |
see comments in source |
| 21:07 |
kahrl_ |
where exactly? |
| 21:13 |
kahrl_ |
you can't mean the MEET_BLOCK_NODE_METADATA_CHANGED handler in server.cpp, because changing that would have zero effect when you connect your client to someone else's server |
| 21:24 |
VanessaE |
[09-07 16:01] <RealBadAngel> server.cpp line 926 |
| 21:24 |
VanessaE |
[09-07 16:04] <RealBadAngel> server.cpp line 2101 |
| 21:25 |
RealBadAngel |
RealBadAngel> the client is ignoring meta changes |
| 21:28 |
RealBadAngel |
VanessaE, after all this time i made the screenshot im still connected with 40fps |
| 21:29 |
RealBadAngel |
never saw your spawn so smooth |
| 21:46 |
Wayward1 |
RealBadAngel, would you mind pastebinning your changes here? I'd like to test them myself |
| 21:46 |
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