| Time |
Nick |
Message |
| 00:01 |
Taoki |
So hardware lighting is still to be done... but it should be easier now. Anyway, I soooo gotta look for bloom and water reflection / reflection shaders now *fangirl squeal* |
| 00:01 |
Taoki |
xD |
| 00:02 |
celeron55 |
(actually, i did add some fancier calculations to work in linear color space and use an exponential exposure function to not burn out stuff like snow but whatever) |
| 00:03 |
Taoki |
nic |
| 00:03 |
Taoki |
**nice |
| 00:03 |
celeron55 |
it's odd how powerful the GPU is in even the suckiest cards these days |
| 00:04 |
celeron55 |
you can do fairly complex calculations for every pixel on the screen in every frame |
| 00:05 |
Taoki |
yeah. Was just going to say I see absolutely no performance decrease with shaders. Which makes sense, since I have a very modern video card. But for things as simple as this, even old cards should have no problem |
| 00:43 |
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Taoki joined #minetest-dev |
| 01:52 |
VanessaE |
celeron55: nice work on the shaders code. light-emitting objects are too dark, but otherwise it seems to work well. No apparent performance loss here. |
| 02:17 |
VanessaE |
celeron55: recommendations: light the north, south, east, and west sides of the cubes slightly differently (not much, maybe mas 5% between darkest and brightest). Reduce the top-side lighting by 25%. Automatically move signlike and raillike objects that are placed on water (e.g. flowers:waterlilies) down to meet the newly-positioned water surface. |
| 02:18 |
VanessaE |
s/mas/max/ |
| 02:18 |
|
doserj left #minetest-dev |
| 02:19 |
VanessaE |
s/waterlilies/waterlily/ |
| 02:31 |
SitDog |
i've been catching up with the lighting code discussion. my 2 cents is that we shouldn't go overboard with them. i love high end stuff, but the simple graphics of minetest is pleasing to me. |
| 02:31 |
SitDog |
it's a good break :D |
| 02:52 |
hmmmm |
what on earth.... |
| 02:52 |
VanessaE |
? |
| 02:54 |
hmmmm |
i don't understand... |
| 02:54 |
hmmmm |
you know how i was having issues with lighting |
| 02:54 |
hmmmm |
all of a sudden i'm not |
| 02:54 |
hmmmm |
i didn't change anything at all |
| 02:55 |
hmmmm |
i just added in a printf statement in between propogatesunlight and unspreadlight |
| 02:55 |
hmmmm |
which would mean "aha, race condition" - except when i removed it, it still worked |
| 02:55 |
VanessaE |
yes of course. Odd thing to cause it to "just work"? |
| 02:55 |
hmmmm |
something really weird is up |
| 02:55 |
VanessaE |
maybe you made some other change you just forgot about? |
| 02:55 |
hmmmm |
nope |
| 02:56 |
hmmmm |
maybe it was a combination of changes |
| 02:56 |
VanessaE |
possible |
| 02:58 |
hmmmm |
okay i figured out what the problem is |
| 02:58 |
hmmmm |
but i'm not sure how to fix it |
| 02:59 |
VanessaE |
celeron55: recommendation: page flipping in creative turns the screen black while the display is being regenerated, if the item preload thing is turned off. Suggest defaulting it to on to restore the old behavior until a suitable workaround is found. I suggest, in that regard, that the display either be double-buffered (with a "Rendering next/previous page..." message at the bottom), or that the page be re-painted an ite |
| 02:59 |
VanessaE |
m at a time without the black screen (draw an empty inventory, then fill it) |
| 03:05 |
hmmmm |
i am looking at the size of the light_sources and unlight_from... generating from full_node_min.Y to full_node_max.Y causes odd variance between sizes of light_sources, namely 512000, 716800, and 385280. also, i must force overtop_has_sunlight = true for this to occur |
| 03:05 |
hmmmm |
without overtop_has_sunlight, there is nothing at all added to light_sources |
| 03:06 |
hmmmm |
using the combination of generating from node_min.Y to node_max.Y and overtop_has_sunlight = true being forced, however, produces darkness |
| 03:07 |
hmmmm |
i've already thought about CONTENT_IGNORE blocking the sunlight, so i set that to sunlight propogates = true in nodedef for a second, and that didn't do what i expected it to |
| 03:09 |
hmmmm |
i'm getting somewhere at least |
| 03:29 |
SitDog |
i am not having problems with lighting if that was directed at me. i was just saying that the simplicity of the project is what attracted me to it :) |
| 03:56 |
RealBadAngel |
SitDog, its an option and some just love it |
| 03:56 |
RealBadAngel |
you can still stick to simplest settings |
| 04:02 |
SitDog |
i guess that is true. i just need a setting called "drunk & pixelated" |
| 04:02 |
VanessaE |
haha |
| 04:04 |
SitDog |
I have finished up a tempfile class. it automatically handles writing data to a temporary file. that is you write to the temporary file until you close the object. it then attempts to rename the temp file to the target file -- and creates a backup of an existing target file. |
| 04:06 |
SitDog |
so, very little changes as far as the code flow, but if you run out of disk space or the file system becomes corrupt, you will not trash a valid file. |
| 04:16 |
SitDog |
celeron55 mentioned an issue with the far rendering distance. i don't recall exactly what that was, but i would like to take a look at it. |
| 04:20 |
VanessaE |
the automatic FPS control I think he meant. |
| 04:20 |
VanessaE |
the rendering distance is supposed to vary closer or farther to keep the client FPS at whatever's configured in minetest.conf I guess |
| 04:21 |
VanessaE |
instead it is..well "badly broken" I think he said, but I don't recall why. |
| 05:00 |
SitDog |
i will take a look at it. |
| 05:01 |
SitDog |
I didn't commit the temp file thing yet. |
| 05:23 |
hmmmm |
alright back to working on minetest |
| 05:24 |
hmmmm |
so i got everything fully working - turns out the actual problem was that nodes underneath the overtop were CONTENT_IGNORE |
| 05:24 |
hmmmm |
because i was writing to nodes that were in the buffer zone |
| 05:25 |
hmmmm |
i didn't realize how intricate the VoxelArea thingy was |
| 05:49 |
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Calinou joined #minetest-dev |
| 05:52 |
hmmmm |
hrmm |
| 05:54 |
hmmmm |
the segfaults that happen when "too much is going on" seems to be due to updateLighting() adding too many nodes to light_sources |
| 05:55 |
hmmmm |
i'll leave it unfixed (because an actual fix would require a lot of work) since that lighting code may be ripped out soon anyway or not used much anymore |
| 05:58 |
RealBadAngel |
hey, dont stop |
| 05:59 |
RealBadAngel |
make it work, please |
| 05:59 |
hmmmm |
it seems like this is an irrlicht bug |
| 06:00 |
hmmmm |
well |
| 06:00 |
hmmmm |
actually a libsupc++.so.1 bug |
| 06:00 |
RealBadAngel |
have you checked 1.8 code for it? |
| 06:00 |
hmmmm |
what....? |
| 06:00 |
hmmmm |
that has nothing to do with what i'm talking about |
| 06:01 |
RealBadAngel |
you told irrlicht bug |
| 06:01 |
hmmmm |
yeah it is an irrlicht bug, if it's smashing the heap like i think it is |
| 06:01 |
RealBadAngel |
we are using outdated version of it |
| 06:01 |
hmmmm |
that's okay. |
| 06:01 |
RealBadAngel |
like 1.7.1 |
| 06:02 |
hmmmm |
we aren't, maybe you are. i'm personally using 1.7.3 |
| 06:02 |
RealBadAngel |
why not current stable? |
| 06:03 |
hmmmm |
because it's too new? |
| 06:03 |
hmmmm |
that won't fix the problem anyway |
| 06:03 |
RealBadAngel |
since they have stable released each 6 months |
| 06:03 |
RealBadAngel |
stable means well tested |
| 06:03 |
RealBadAngel |
read their forums |
| 06:04 |
RealBadAngel |
before release the stable they have a month of freeze |
| 06:05 |
hmmmm |
yes, but that doesn't change that most operating systems don't have 1.8 available |
| 06:05 |
RealBadAngel |
thats the other thing |
| 06:06 |
RealBadAngel |
but if it appears that the problem is in just upgrading to new libs... |
| 06:07 |
hmmmm |
it's not a problem at all, because we're not upgrading to new versions of libraries for no reason |
| 06:07 |
RealBadAngel |
im dont know, just a thoight |
| 06:08 |
RealBadAngel |
Jeija was doing something and said movin to it is necesary |
| 06:08 |
RealBadAngel |
but i dont know the reason now |
| 06:08 |
hmmmm |
probably because of the texture mipmapping bug |
| 06:09 |
hmmmm |
it's fine if you use 1.8 in windows builds or anything where the library is redistributed, but you can NOT rely on 1.8's behavior |
| 06:10 |
Calinou |
<RealBadAngel> since they have stable released each 6 months |
| 06:10 |
Calinou |
lol nope |
| 06:10 |
hmmmm |
if you really must do so, you need to include a preprocessor check of which irrlicht version it's being built with |
| 06:10 |
Calinou |
every two years for debian rusty... |
| 06:10 |
Calinou |
8 months before the release: debian stale is frozen |
| 06:10 |
hmmmm |
and use the appropriate non-breaking behavior for older ones |
| 06:10 |
RealBadAngel |
Calinou, i was talkin bout Irrlicht engine |
| 06:10 |
Calinou |
oh |
| 06:12 |
* Calinou |
should ctrl+f more often |
| 06:13 |
RealBadAngel |
Calinou, have you tested UI? |
| 06:14 |
Calinou |
my inventory flashes when i click on something in creative inv |
| 06:14 |
RealBadAngel |
delete default creative mod |
| 06:15 |
hmmmm |
okay this just turned into a real problem |
| 06:15 |
RealBadAngel |
need to find a way to disable it without deleting tho |
| 06:15 |
Calinou |
the creative inv you made is pretty good |
| 06:15 |
Calinou |
search is case-sensitive, though |
| 06:15 |
Calinou |
shouldn't ;) |
| 06:15 |
RealBadAngel |
thats why im askin folks to test |
| 06:16 |
RealBadAngel |
to gather info what should be improved |
| 06:16 |
RealBadAngel |
btw enter case is solved already, but needs another patch to be merged |
| 06:17 |
Calinou |
bag textures look 2D in hand |
| 06:17 |
Calinou |
you probably didn't threshold alpha ;) |
| 06:17 |
RealBadAngel |
the code is cornernote's |
| 06:17 |
RealBadAngel |
i left it almost intact |
| 06:18 |
RealBadAngel |
they propably could be better |
| 06:19 |
RealBadAngel |
with the latest patch search is even more comfortable |
| 06:19 |
RealBadAngel |
search button is not needed at all |
| 06:20 |
RealBadAngel |
im workin now on updating the search results realtime |
| 06:20 |
RealBadAngel |
when user is typing the query |
| 06:21 |
Calinou |
that'll make the server lag since the search is server-side.. |
| 06:22 |
RealBadAngel |
will have to be tested then |
| 06:22 |
RealBadAngel |
if it will really be producing lags i will drop the idea |
| 06:24 |
RealBadAngel |
offtopic: http://faildesk.net/2012/02/21/finally-a-true-purpose-for-internet-explorer/ |
| 06:27 |
Calinou |
lol |
| 06:32 |
RealBadAngel |
http://faildesk.net/2012/11/30/ie-10-sucks-less-and-microsoft-wants-you-admit-it/ |
| 06:32 |
RealBadAngel |
thats good :) |
| 06:49 |
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SpeedProg joined #minetest-dev |
| 06:49 |
|
dannydark joined #minetest-dev |
| 08:04 |
|
kotolegokot joined #minetest-dev |
| 08:05 |
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kotolegokot joined #minetest-dev |
| 08:18 |
|
celeron55 joined #minetest-dev |
| 08:42 |
celeron55 |
hmmmm: the voxel lighting will not be ripped out anytime soon, if ever |
| 08:42 |
celeron55 |
if it's up to me, not in years |
| 08:43 |
hmmmm |
mm yes, nevermind that. |
| 08:43 |
hmmmm |
it was my fault, i was corrupting the the heap a little |
| 08:43 |
hmmmm |
it really looked like irrlicht's problem though. |
| 08:43 |
celeron55 |
it does a good job of making the game look different to everything generic opengl stuff out there |
| 08:44 |
celeron55 |
(and also it has the gameplay utility of making it easy for stuff to look up where it is dark and where not) |
| 08:45 |
hmmmm |
then perhaps it could use an overhaul |
| 08:45 |
celeron55 |
why? |
| 08:45 |
Calinou |
change its default colors to look more like shaders, and make the top face of blocks brighter? |
| 08:45 |
Calinou |
minecraft uses voxel lights, sides of blocks are darker, so this is possible |
| 08:45 |
celeron55 |
Calinou: ...the shaders branch uses voxel lighting |
| 08:46 |
hmmmm |
at the very minimum, the part where it allocates about a half million nodes can be changed |
| 08:46 |
hmmmm |
3/4ths of a million actually |
| 08:46 |
celeron55 |
if you want to optimize it, go ahead |
| 08:46 |
celeron55 |
you'll have hard time though |
| 08:46 |
hmmmm |
i'm confident i can do something about it |
| 08:46 |
hmmmm |
but, that'll come later |
| 08:46 |
celeron55 |
do you mean the VoxelManipulator part? |
| 08:47 |
celeron55 |
it's pretty important, because it makes a linear array of the whole problem |
| 08:47 |
celeron55 |
the regular minetest map abstraction is too slow for huge bulk operations, and it cannot be used in threads |
| 08:47 |
hmmmm |
mm no, unlight_from and light_sources |
| 08:47 |
hmmmm |
those are the offenders |
| 08:47 |
celeron55 |
ok |
| 08:48 |
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PilzAdam joined #minetest-dev |
| 08:48 |
hmmmm |
and it takes up the vast majority of the mapgen time |
| 08:48 |
celeron55 |
i assume you can figure out what they do |
| 08:48 |
hmmmm |
no i know exactly what they do |
| 08:48 |
hmmmm |
i spent way too much time on the lighting problem |
| 08:48 |
hmmmm |
i'm pretty familiar with all that code |
| 08:50 |
RealBadAngel |
hi celeron55 |
| 08:51 |
RealBadAngel |
if you want to try whats possible thanks to the changes to formspec: http://realbadangel.pl/UI.zip |
| 08:52 |
RealBadAngel |
i made complete overhaul of inventory |
| 08:52 |
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jin_xi joined #minetest-dev |
| 08:53 |
celeron55 |
RealBadAngel: how about a github repo and screenshots; much handier |
| 08:53 |
RealBadAngel |
its WIP |
| 08:54 |
hmmmm |
having to unzip someone's file is so cumbersome though |
| 08:54 |
RealBadAngel |
screenshots wont tell you how it works on the other hand |
| 08:54 |
RealBadAngel |
finding an item is now damm fast and easy |
| 08:54 |
RealBadAngel |
even within thousands of aviable ones |
| 08:56 |
hmmmm |
oh |
| 08:57 |
RealBadAngel |
i used to have 60+ pages in creative, now i do have less then 20 |
| 08:57 |
hmmmm |
completely different subject, but what do you say about eventually removing farmesh entirely? |
| 08:57 |
celeron55 |
it will be rewritten in a different way... some day |
| 08:57 |
hmmmm |
with a super fast mapgen like this and much faster rendering, i am not so sure if it's necessary |
| 08:57 |
celeron55 |
could be removed currently though, it's useless as-is |
| 08:58 |
PilzAdam |
(working) farmesh would be a nice feature |
| 08:58 |
hmmmm |
would you like to make it happen!? :) |
| 08:58 |
RealBadAngel |
hehe |
| 08:58 |
RealBadAngel |
PilzAdam you have been choseen as a volunteer ;) |
| 08:58 |
hmmmm |
no seriously don't |
| 08:59 |
hmmmm |
we need to come up with a new idea for farmesh first (if we even actually need it by the time we get around to it) |
| 08:59 |
celeron55 |
i have plans to make it work using "mapblock impostors" |
| 09:02 |
celeron55 |
there are much details of implementation to find out and figure out, but i am quite positive it will work, somehow |
| 09:03 |
PilzAdam |
I guess the new_style_water can be removed since we got shaders |
| 09:03 |
hmmmm |
wouldn't that still kinda take up a lot of memory |
| 09:04 |
celeron55 |
PilzAdam: no need to hurry for that |
| 09:04 |
celeron55 |
hmmmm: dunno; it's all in the details |
| 09:05 |
celeron55 |
the close quality of them can be screwed up by a huge lot without making them useless |
| 09:06 |
celeron55 |
on modern computers, we're talking about things further away than like 160 nodes |
| 09:06 |
celeron55 |
on slower ones, people will be happy to see even something |
| 09:07 |
hmmmm |
this is just me, but i'm using an 8400gs and i don't typically have a problem with full range view enabled |
| 09:07 |
hmmmm |
especially after that texture switch reordering |
| 09:08 |
hmmmm |
oh yes this is good |
| 09:08 |
hmmmm |
with my new biome setup, you can assign an average color to each |
| 09:08 |
hmmmm |
for example, the average color of a desert biome would be orange |
| 09:09 |
celeron55 |
lol... why would you do that |
| 09:09 |
celeron55 |
that's not even close to how real biomes are formed |
| 09:09 |
hmmmm |
huh? |
| 09:10 |
RealBadAngel |
seen red deserts in aegypt |
| 09:10 |
hmmmm |
you mean the biome code i committed to my own repository? |
| 09:10 |
hmmmm |
it probably isn't, i don't know how real biomes are formed, that's just what came to me |
| 09:11 |
celeron55 |
how does it handle two biomes that have the same average color but completely different "functionality" |
| 09:11 |
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rsiska joined #minetest-dev |
| 09:11 |
hmmmm |
oh no no you misunderstood |
| 09:11 |
celeron55 |
you're quite unclear in what you say |
| 09:11 |
hmmmm |
with the fake mapblocks you're going to have reduced detail |
| 09:11 |
RealBadAngel |
celeron55, https://github.com/RealBadAngel/unifiedinventory |
| 09:12 |
hmmmm |
and instead of using the color of each node or whatever |
| 09:12 |
celeron55 |
oh yes |
| 09:12 |
hmmmm |
if that fake mapblock is in a certain biome you can just make a sub-node group of say 4x4 with that average color |
| 09:13 |
celeron55 |
if your mapgen turns out good and has the preview generation abilities you've been talking about, it will be useful for creating the data for far rendering |
| 09:13 |
hmmmm |
yea |
| 09:13 |
SitDog |
offtopic: some feedback on code quality & style. http://ideone.com/6gh1J7 |
| 09:13 |
celeron55 |
but the colors have to be found out on the client side from the textures it is using |
| 09:13 |
celeron55 |
the server can't know how what it is sending is supposed to look |
| 09:13 |
hmmmm |
oh gosh that's true |
| 09:14 |
hmmmm |
i need to get to sleep, it's 4:15 am |
| 09:14 |
hmmmm |
that's a pretty big problem... i'll think of something |
| 09:14 |
celeron55 |
you'll have to use node ids instead of colors |
| 09:14 |
celeron55 |
no other option 8) |
| 09:17 |
dannydark |
I was thinking about adding noclip a priv and splitting it from fly, so if someone had the noclip priv they could still fly through the ground etc but without it they would still be able to fly (with the fly priv of course) just not through the ground as my brother wants to give some people on his server fly privileges but doesn't want them noclipping through the ground to cheat at getting ores etc. Would you be happy to accept this change |
| 09:17 |
celeron55 |
maybe change the equivalent of what you currently transfer as a color to two node ids (to be able to average from them; better than one but not much worse than 3), and the client will figure out which side of them it will use based on context |
| 09:18 |
celeron55 |
dannydark: got cut at "this change u" |
| 09:18 |
dannydark |
accept this change upstream? as I feel it could be useful for other servers to well...maybe ^_^* |
| 09:18 |
dannydark |
sorry it said it had sent fine on mine :S |
| 09:19 |
celeron55 |
irc cuts too long messages; you should get a client that will split them 8) |
| 09:19 |
dannydark |
haha yeah, I'm on my windows box so using trillian |
| 09:20 |
celeron55 |
anyway; that would indeed be useful, maybe someone could look into it |
| 09:22 |
dannydark |
Ok, I will take a look at the code in a sec and get working on it |
| 09:23 |
celeron55 |
it's probably quite simple |
| 09:24 |
celeron55 |
just add a new description of a privilege and modify localplayer.cpp |
| 09:24 |
dannydark |
yeah I did it in 0.3 ages ago for his server but as hes running latest master now he wants it to be added again haha |
| 09:24 |
RealBadAngel |
dannydark: +1 for the idea |
| 09:24 |
RealBadAngel |
that could make the jetpack idea usable |
| 09:25 |
dannydark |
^_^ oh yeah think I saw that jetpack mod, so it needed fly priv to work? |
| 09:25 |
celeron55 |
not really; a jetpack requires taking away direct control from the player but keeping the collision detection going |
| 09:26 |
celeron55 |
and be independent of privileges |
| 09:26 |
dannydark |
yeah was going to say if it did use fly priv that it wouldn't be the ideal way to do it |
| 09:26 |
RealBadAngel |
separation of fly and noclip is needed in the first place |
| 09:27 |
RealBadAngel |
i thought of simple tool when weared and charged could let player fly |
| 09:28 |
celeron55 |
well, yeah, a hacky implementation could indeed be done with a fly privilege without noclip |
| 09:28 |
RealBadAngel |
like with fly priv, but noclip makes it nonsense |
| 09:28 |
PilzAdam |
https://gist.github.com/4187946 |
| 09:29 |
dannydark |
yeah, ideally though It would be nice to have it work without fly priv, especially on survival only servers where admins don't want people to be able to fly about (at least without the jetpack...which would also be limited flying with some sort of fuel consumption maybe) |
| 09:30 |
RealBadAngel |
i got the code for it almost done |
| 09:31 |
RealBadAngel |
just need correct privs |
| 09:31 |
PilzAdam |
should the client be able to swtich noclip if he has the noclip priv? |
| 09:31 |
RealBadAngel |
its a power tool |
| 09:31 |
RealBadAngel |
you have to craft it, charge and then you can use it |
| 09:31 |
dannydark |
PilzAdam: nice, wouldn't that stop people from using fly though (if noclip priv is not allowed)? |
| 09:32 |
dannydark |
PilzAdam: I don't think so, I think if someone has noclip and fly then let them noclip while flying (otherwise it means adding more controls etc) |
| 09:32 |
PilzAdam |
in this case the patch is ready |
| 09:33 |
RealBadAngel |
that problem wont rise on most of the servers |
| 09:33 |
dannydark |
RealBadAngel: ah nice, will be nice to see it in action when its ready |
| 09:33 |
RealBadAngel |
need just a way to switch on/off nocliped fly |
| 09:33 |
Calinou |
i'd say: make fly priv allow noclip by default. "disallow_fly_noclip = true" in minetest.conf disables noclip |
| 09:34 |
Calinou |
people with "server" privilege can always noclip, though |
| 09:34 |
celeron55 |
PilzAdam's patch is not ready |
| 09:34 |
dannydark |
yeah won't that stop people using standard fly without noclip? |
| 09:35 |
RealBadAngel |
when using the tool fly priv will have nothin to do with it |
| 09:35 |
celeron55 |
it won't let a player fly if the player doesn't have fly AND noclip, and there is no fly mode with collisions |
| 09:35 |
dannydark |
yeah |
| 09:35 |
RealBadAngel |
if your jetpack runs out of energy you gonna fall to the ground and dye |
| 09:35 |
RealBadAngel |
die |
| 09:36 |
RealBadAngel |
thats the idea |
| 09:36 |
dannydark |
another thing that might need changing is when using fly with collision, if you fly into blocks it will kill you....where it shouldn't unless your falling... |
| 09:36 |
dannydark |
at least that problem happened in 0.3 |
| 09:36 |
PilzAdam |
celeron55, with my patch you can fly without noclip |
| 09:37 |
RealBadAngel |
so its ready or not? :) |
| 09:37 |
PilzAdam |
you die if you fly down at the ground |
| 09:37 |
PilzAdam |
with superspeed |
| 09:38 |
dannydark |
yeah I don't think it should do that |
| 09:38 |
dannydark |
unless your falling |
| 09:38 |
RealBadAngel |
i see it other way |
| 09:38 |
RealBadAngel |
if it is a priv |
| 09:38 |
dannydark |
because you will also die if you fly into walls |
| 09:38 |
RealBadAngel |
jetpack runnin out of energy will just disable it |
| 09:39 |
dannydark |
RealBadAngel: yeah I think thats right, because then you would be falling...so if your high your going to take damage ^_^ haha |
| 09:39 |
RealBadAngel |
and player will find himself in walkin mode over the clouds |
| 09:39 |
celeron55 |
"oh dog" |
| 09:40 |
RealBadAngel |
hi the lake, hi grass |
| 09:40 |
RealBadAngel |
*splash* |
| 09:40 |
* dannydark |
misses lake.... *splat* |
| 09:41 |
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| 09:41 |
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| 09:41 |
RealBadAngel |
hehe |
| 09:42 |
PilzAdam |
were is the falling damage handled? |
| 09:42 |
RealBadAngel |
on the ground? ;) |
| 09:43 |
dannydark |
localplayer.cpp |
| 09:44 |
dannydark |
line 296 (Report collisions) |
| 09:44 |
RealBadAngel |
so ground level is line #296 ;) |
| 09:44 |
dannydark |
should just need an && !free_move in the if statement |
| 09:44 |
dannydark |
or something like that |
| 09:45 |
dannydark |
PilzAdam: well line 296 with your patch |
| 09:45 |
celeron55 |
uhm |
| 09:45 |
celeron55 |
what are you doing |
| 09:45 |
PilzAdam |
it works |
| 09:45 |
PilzAdam |
Im messing arround with noclip |
| 09:46 |
PilzAdam |
ok, it doesnt work |
| 09:46 |
celeron55 |
hmm, disabled collision damage for flying without noclip? well i guess that is reasonable |
| 09:47 |
dannydark |
PilzAdam: you still getting damaged? |
| 09:48 |
PilzAdam |
its a bit strange; the damage is delayed |
| 09:48 |
dannydark |
I'll run a compile now and have a look |
| 09:49 |
PilzAdam |
at the first collison the hearts dissapear and at the second one i die |
| 09:52 |
dannydark |
yeah same here will have a look at the code, I'm sure that in 0.3 I only had to amend that collision if statement although I guess much has changed since then ^_^ hehe |
| 09:53 |
RealBadAngel |
celeron55, http://minetest.net/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=54671#p54671 together with some screenshots |
| 09:54 |
dannydark |
oh wait |
| 09:54 |
dannydark |
its because free_move is false |
| 09:54 |
dannydark |
as we don't have the noclip priv |
| 09:55 |
PilzAdam |
so g_settings->getBool("free_move") |
| 09:55 |
dannydark |
yeah that should work |
| 09:56 |
PilzAdam |
yep, it works |
| 09:56 |
dannydark |
hehe >_< |
| 09:56 |
dannydark |
yeah so I guess thats the noclip/fly split patch done |
| 09:57 |
RealBadAngel |
is it able to set on/off from lua? |
| 09:57 |
RealBadAngel |
hi Taoki |
| 09:57 |
PilzAdam |
with minetest.setting_set() |
| 09:58 |
PilzAdam |
updated patch: https://gist.github.com/4187946 |
| 09:59 |
celeron55 |
minetest.setting_set() changes server settings |
| 10:00 |
PilzAdam |
RealBadAngel, why do you need that? |
| 10:01 |
RealBadAngel |
for jetpack |
| 10:01 |
PilzAdam |
why dont you use entities for that? |
| 10:01 |
RealBadAngel |
need to be able to turn it on when user wears jetpack |
| 10:01 |
RealBadAngel |
and off when puts it away or energy runs out |
| 10:02 |
PilzAdam |
attach the player to a Lua entity |
| 10:02 |
celeron55 |
hmm, indeed, attach the player to an entity |
| 10:02 |
RealBadAngel |
no way |
| 10:02 |
dannydark |
RealBadAngel: maybe this is useful: http://minetest.net/forum/viewtopic.php?id=3915 |
| 10:02 |
RealBadAngel |
theyre lagged as hell |
| 10:02 |
celeron55 |
it's the right way |
| 10:02 |
dannydark |
I've not seen the code so not sure how he's done his jetpack but yeah might be useful |
| 10:02 |
RealBadAngel |
thanks to the entities nothin based on them is not useful |
| 10:03 |
RealBadAngel |
lasers shoots 20s after fireing |
| 10:03 |
PilzAdam |
depends on the server connection |
| 10:03 |
RealBadAngel |
local |
| 10:03 |
celeron55 |
if you could set client settings from the server, it would just annoy the player if he for example wants to have free move set for all the time and then switches through a jetpack in the inventory or so |
| 10:04 |
RealBadAngel |
jetpack is meant for surrival servers |
| 10:04 |
RealBadAngel |
its not a kind of priviledge |
| 10:04 |
RealBadAngel |
like high end tool aviable after long days of playing and gathering resources |
| 10:04 |
dannydark |
will it have some sort of force pushing the player? erm...mmm not to sure how to explain it |
| 10:05 |
RealBadAngel |
hmmm with entities used i think it could be possible |
| 10:05 |
celeron55 |
free_move should be made to be sent from the server and saved to there though and not be a client setting |
| 10:05 |
RealBadAngel |
celeron55, of course |
| 10:05 |
celeron55 |
but i don't think there is any proper framework for such things |
| 10:05 |
dannydark |
basically so it feels more realistic with some sort of gravity rules applied to it rather than just feeling like free_move? because that would be awesome |
| 10:06 |
RealBadAngel |
celeron55, im using prived stuff to turn on/off already |
| 10:06 |
celeron55 |
it's wrong and wouldn't work in that case anyway |
| 10:06 |
RealBadAngel |
see set daytime buttons in Unified Inventory |
| 10:06 |
RealBadAngel |
its working |
| 10:07 |
celeron55 |
... |
| 10:07 |
celeron55 |
i am sorry but i have to request you to not be an idiot once again |
| 10:07 |
RealBadAngel |
im setting it on the server side |
| 10:07 |
RealBadAngel |
not the client |
| 10:08 |
RealBadAngel |
so please stop |
| 10:08 |
RealBadAngel |
im using the commands like chat does |
| 10:18 |
PilzAdam |
celeron55, bug in water shaders: http://www.zimg.eu/i/1782686636 -> http://www.zimg.eu/i/4257623532 |
| 10:21 |
celeron55 |
known |
| 10:24 |
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| 10:29 |
RealBadAngel |
hmmm, stupid question, can entity emit light? |
| 10:29 |
PilzAdam |
currently not |
| 10:29 |
RealBadAngel |
:( |
| 10:31 |
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| 11:09 |
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| 12:06 |
Taoki |
PilzAdam: Can you commit a small change for me please? I tested anaglyph stereo again, and 0.1 is too strong of a default. Can you please change anaglyph_strength = 0.1 to anaglyph_strength = 0.05 in minetest.conf.example? |
| 12:06 |
Taoki |
I also think there might be a default in the code that needs to be changed too |
| 12:06 |
PilzAdam |
yea, in defaultsettings.cpp |
| 12:06 |
Taoki |
right |
| 12:06 |
Taoki |
0.05 is good |
| 12:07 |
PilzAdam |
k, will do |
| 12:07 |
Taoki |
tx |
| 12:08 |
thexyz |
i guess that's too personal setting, other people were claiming 0.05 is too low |
| 12:08 |
Taoki |
PilzAdam: Also, can you merge this one commit from my branch? https://github.com/MirceaKitsune/minetest/commit/14409e115eced2f76670e7cc8f069a25d67c347f NOT the whole branch, I spoke with c55 and the server-side already prevents sending the same position, but the client doesn't |
| 12:09 |
Taoki |
thexyz: I tried it again and it's too eye-straining to work |
| 12:10 |
PilzAdam |
people have to set this for themselves |
| 12:10 |
PilzAdam |
so maybe its not a good idea to change it every day in upstream |
| 12:10 |
thexyz |
http://minetest.net/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=11162#p11162 — your post |
| 12:11 |
PilzAdam |
just leave it as it is |
| 12:12 |
Taoki |
The current default won't work for many, it's too eye straining. But ok |
| 12:12 |
thexyz |
yep |
| 12:12 |
thexyz |
Taoki: we'd better ask people instead of making those conclusions |
| 12:12 |
Taoki |
makes sense |
| 12:13 |
PilzAdam |
Taoki, dunno about the commit you mentioned |
| 12:13 |
Taoki |
Also: Can someone confirm that for both players and lua entities, position is only updated from server to clients only when it changed? So if the object is still it doesn't waste andwidth still sending updates? |
| 12:13 |
Taoki |
PilzAdam: I tested it and it does no harm, or bugs I can think of. Just keeps the local player from wasting bandwidth for no reason |
| 12:13 |
Taoki |
Always a helpful thing |
| 12:14 |
Taoki |
Well, feel free to test it, but that commit is certainly fine. Would be surprised if any harm could come from that |
| 12:16 |
PilzAdam |
thexyz, what do you think? |
| 12:17 |
Taoki |
That branch also contained the same thing for client_sao, but c55 said that the server already knows to avoid sending the same position for still players. I'd like someone else to confirm though, since I can't find the code that does that except for ItemSAO |
| 12:17 |
Taoki |
Anyway, local player doesn't, and what's what the commit I linked is for |
| 12:17 |
Taoki |
**that's |
| 12:17 |
Taoki |
BRB, but feel free to answer as I'm only afk |
| 12:20 |
thexyz |
PilzAdam: have you tested it? |
| 12:20 |
thexyz |
seems fine as for me |
| 12:24 |
PilzAdam |
13:24:02: ERROR[main]: ClientEnvironment::addActiveObject(): id=1 type=e: SerializationError in initialize(): unsupported ObjectProperties version: init_data="\u0001[...] |
| 12:24 |
PilzAdam |
when i connect to minetest.ru:12345 |
| 12:25 |
PilzAdam |
a randomly choosen 0.4.3 seems to work |
| 12:25 |
thexyz |
https://github.com/celeron55/minetest/pull/326 |
| 12:25 |
thexyz |
PilzAdam: it's not up-to-date |
| 12:26 |
PilzAdam |
do you know any up-to -date 0. |
| 12:26 |
PilzAdam |
4.4-dev servers? |
| 12:26 |
thexyz |
there were some commits that fixed version incompatibility, i'll rebuild right now |
| 12:26 |
PilzAdam |
without Taoki's patch? |
| 12:27 |
thexyz |
why should i include it? it only affects client |
| 12:27 |
thexyz |
done |
| 12:28 |
PilzAdam |
I just want to test if it breaks something |
| 12:28 |
thexyz |
try to connect now |
| 12:28 |
PilzAdam |
already done |
| 12:28 |
PilzAdam |
no errors |
| 12:28 |
celeron55 |
Taoki: about your commit: you should store the last values in LocalPlayer, not Player |
| 12:29 |
celeron55 |
Taoki: and you should initialize them in the constructor |
| 12:30 |
thexyz |
whoa! bug |
| 12:31 |
celeron55 |
i wonder if i should try cramming in the meta_set_nodedef branch too... |
| 12:31 |
thexyz |
http://i.imgur.com/DRnxl.png → http://i.imgur.com/r2o9W.png |
| 12:32 |
celeron55 |
it's not a bug, it's a shortcut! |
| 12:32 |
PilzAdam |
celeron55, what would you do if you dont make it? |
| 12:33 |
PilzAdam |
bbl |
| 12:39 |
Taoki |
back. Will try to make those changes and re-create the branch |
| 12:44 |
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| 12:48 |
celeron55 |
oh dog |
| 12:48 |
celeron55 |
i just started looking through the meta_set_nodedef branch |
| 12:48 |
celeron55 |
this is really funky stuff |
| 12:48 |
celeron55 |
didn't even remember what this contained |
| 12:49 |
celeron55 |
this for example creates a fake full game environment for... ehm... something |
| 12:54 |
celeron55 |
this pushes a fake node definition manager in a wrapped game definition to the mesh generator and creates fake node ids for the dynamic nodes |
| 12:57 |
thexyz |
celeron55: https://github.com/celeron55/minetest/pull/326 |
| 13:08 |
celeron55 |
database.h should be designed so that it doesn't depend on stuff like sqlite3.h |
| 13:08 |
celeron55 |
(like headers generally) |
| 13:09 |
celeron55 |
(yes, old code in minetest is baaaaaad) |
| 13:10 |
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| 13:10 |
celeron55 |
thexyz: see the sound stuff for an example of the current recommended way of making abstractions |
| 13:11 |
celeron55 |
sound.{h,cpp}, sound_openal.{h,cpp} |
| 13:11 |
thexyz |
ok |
| 13:24 |
Taoki |
celeron55: Did your changes. https://github.com/MirceaKitsune/minetest/tree/localplayer_check_position |
| 13:25 |
Taoki |
https://github.com/MirceaKitsune/minetest/commit/ef3b53bac6722e0a2a132189d3e68e829fb9c049 Compared to how I did it the first time |
| 13:25 |
Taoki |
That's a new branch so no rebase needed |
| 13:26 |
Taoki |
Someone should test this on a server with >= 2 clients connected, just to be sure each sees position being updated, though it should be perfectly good |
| 13:28 |
PilzAdam |
Taoki, building; I will join minetest.ru:12345 |
| 13:28 |
Taoki |
will try to connect there too |
| 13:29 |
thexyz |
celeron55: but pythonmodulo depends on sqlite3_int64 |
| 13:30 |
thexyz |
hm, seems there's no difference between sqlite3_int64 and long long |
| 13:31 |
celeron55 |
ehm |
| 13:31 |
celeron55 |
what is pythonmodulo |
| 13:31 |
thexyz |
// modulo of a negative number does not work consistently in C |
| 13:31 |
thexyz |
static long long pythonmodulo(long long i, long long mod) |
| 13:31 |
thexyz |
it's used by Database::getIntegerAsBlock |
| 13:32 |
celeron55 |
hmm |
| 13:33 |
celeron55 |
well, it should be just a signed 64 bit number |
| 13:34 |
celeron55 |
does irrlicht always define that |
| 13:35 |
celeron55 |
apparently no |
| 13:39 |
Taoki |
PilzAdam: Forget about what I just said. It also sends pressed keys so it needs to be send for attachments too. So yes, feel free to merge that branch as is now |
| 13:39 |
Taoki |
https://github.com/MirceaKitsune/minetest/tree/localplayer_check_position |
| 13:40 |
thexyz |
well, they use this https://gist.github.com/4188724 in newer irrlicht version |
| 13:41 |
celeron55 |
improvised from sqlite and existing stuff in minetest: https://gist.github.com/4188733 |
| 13:42 |
celeron55 |
should support MSVC and GCC, which suffices for us well |
| 13:42 |
Taoki |
celeron55, PilzAdam: So can that change go upstream? Just to be sure I don't need to do any other improvements |
| 13:42 |
celeron55 |
and is a smallish change |
| 13:43 |
PilzAdam |
Taoki, as it seems to work fine its ok to me |
| 13:44 |
Taoki |
ok, switching back to master then :P |
| 13:46 |
celeron55 |
there is a small change i want to make but i'll make it when i merge those |
| 13:47 |
Taoki |
I'm curious: Can shader sun allow fully smooth lighting transitions now? So when it's sunrise / sunset the light doesn't update itself into various steps. It would sound like this should make that possible |
| 13:48 |
Taoki |
Since shaders should allow each frame to check sun position and calculate brightness at that moment |
| 13:50 |
celeron55 |
it's actually somewhat possible even without shaders, but once again it's like it is for sparing the crappiest hardware... i guess i'll do that too |
| 13:52 |
Taoki |
ok. In the code it would probably be expensive. But for shaders I'd assume you can do something like light = sun_position / 1000 each frame (assuming sun position ranges between 0 and 1000 and maximum light between 0 and 1) |
| 13:52 |
Taoki |
Since it doesn't need to update the voxel lightmaps I believe |
| 13:53 |
celeron55 |
yeah it's basically equal to doing nothing |
| 13:53 |
celeron55 |
the classic code updates the vertex colors based on a cached store of day/night brightness pairs for each vertex |
| 13:53 |
celeron55 |
it's quite lightweight too, actually |
| 13:54 |
Taoki |
right, that's why it would be expensive. But shader light can do a tiny formula each frame that even the oldest GPU wouldn't be influenced by |
| 14:11 |
thexyz |
celeron55: i've updated pull request https://github.com/celeron55/minetest/pull/326 |
| 14:20 |
Taoki |
Regarding what I last asked: I just tested if m_position_not_sent is set properly based on what the server gets from the client, and with my change m_position_not_sent doesn't become true if a player stands perfectly still and presses no keys. So this should have double the effect on bandsitch saving :) |
| 14:20 |
Taoki |
**bandwidth |
| 14:21 |
Taoki |
Well perfectly still players will use no bandwidth at all now, so yeah |
| 14:21 |
Taoki |
Hard to test for lua entities. For fropped items I already noticed a code which checks if position is greater than a given amount before sending... so I assume this is all that's needed |
| 14:22 |
celeron55 |
thexyz: indentation seems to have problems; i'll look at it later |
| 14:22 |
celeron55 |
too much to do already |
| 14:23 |
Taoki |
Although, I do have one curiosity: Does content_sao send the position of a player also to the player which sent the position to it? Or only to all clients which are not our specific player? |
| 14:23 |
Taoki |
Cuz then we still have a useless ping-pong there |
| 14:24 |
celeron55 |
it sends but that doesn't matter; it's useful for debuggin too |
| 14:24 |
celeron55 |
+g |
| 14:24 |
Taoki |
ok. If it does have an use then that's good. |
| 14:24 |
Taoki |
https://github.com/celeron55/minetest/pull/327 |
| 14:25 |
* PilzAdam |
points to his player controls branch: https://github.com/PilzAdam/minetest/commits/controls |
| 14:25 |
PilzAdam |
just if someone is interested |
| 14:26 |
Taoki |
If we would optimize bandwidth to the max, I would be tempted to try fixing this as well, and forget about such debugging. But eh, perhaps another time if anything |
| 14:33 |
Taoki |
Actually, I wanna see if I can fix this... need to understand how ActiveObjectMessage works though, so I can add an ID filter or something |
| 14:39 |
Taoki |
Eh, some other time... the ActiveObjectMessage system makes this too hard |
| 14:39 |
Taoki |
Since you add a message to that it's hard to filter by ID who it's sent to and persist the initial player to know to avoid him |
| 14:40 |
Taoki |
So my last change on that branch is good to go as is :P |
| 15:11 |
Taoki |
Hmmmmm... an idea for the more distant future (perhaps) just popped to mind. What if we could make a server setting that could allow us to use custom block grids? When set to 1, you place blocks like you do currently, all at distance of one block. When 0.5 however, you can place blocks in between other blocks |
| 15:12 |
Taoki |
But this might require a major re-write of the engine. No idea there |
| 15:12 |
Taoki |
0.25 would allow you to place blocks 1/4 in any direction on other blocks, so on |
| 15:12 |
Taoki |
With values like 0.5 however, some servers could make this interesting |
| 15:13 |
thexyz |
celeron55: sorry for being totally unrelated, but http://minetest.net/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=54697#p54697 |
| 15:35 |
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| 15:37 |
Taoki |
Can https://github.com/celeron55/minetest/pull/327 be taken care of if everything is ok with it? |
| 15:41 |
Calinou |
looks good |
| 15:41 |
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| 15:41 |
Calinou |
did you test if new player position is sent if player is teleported with a command? |
| 15:41 |
Calinou |
just to be sure :P |
| 15:41 |
Calinou |
should be, but we never know |
| 15:41 |
Calinou |
(use /teleport player1 player2) |
| 15:46 |
Taoki |
Calinou: It certainly is, but we can test that more if PilzAdam still has the server up and can login now |
| 15:46 |
Taoki |
I fall in a cave on his server either way, can't get out :P |
| 15:47 |
PilzAdam |
its not my server |
| 15:47 |
Taoki |
ok. Well if it has the latest code |
| 15:47 |
Taoki |
I'm in now |
| 15:48 |
Calinou |
now code player yaw smoothing, i tried doing it this morning and I failed again :D |
| 16:01 |
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| 16:03 |
celeron55 |
i herd u liek commits: https://github.com/celeron55/minetest/commit/804a7875a2018f3d8cb3fbe917c11ecc1666d25a |
| 16:04 |
PilzAdam |
:D |
| 16:04 |
Taoki |
:D |
| 16:04 |
Taoki |
will switch over and test that soon |
| 16:09 |
VanessaE |
testing that now. |
| 16:09 |
PilzAdam |
epic. |
| 16:09 |
Taoki |
updated and cimpiled, testing now |
| 16:09 |
Taoki |
indeed |
| 16:10 |
PilzAdam |
time_speed = 96000 -> disco |
| 16:10 |
VanessaE |
oh that's niiiice |
| 16:10 |
VanessaE |
night->day is nice and smooth now |
| 16:11 |
VanessaE |
mostly :-) |
| 16:11 |
Taoki |
yes, very nice! |
| 16:11 |
celeron55 |
http://ompldr.org/vZ2phOQ |
| 16:11 |
celeron55 |
my intense SHADER DEVELOPMENT THING. |
| 16:11 |
VanessaE |
light-emitting nodes look right again also |
| 16:12 |
VanessaE |
whoa, seriously intense :D |
| 16:12 |
celeron55 |
it has multiple inches of screen space |
| 16:12 |
celeron55 |
(less than my shader-incapable laptop at the right) |
| 16:12 |
PilzAdam |
time_speed = 9600 -> ~4 sec. day/night |
| 16:13 |
Taoki |
if it works, that's the important part |
| 16:14 |
celeron55 |
well, it usually works |
| 16:14 |
darkrose |
now it just needs shadows that follow the sun |
| 16:14 |
celeron55 |
the computer itself is a year old i3 but the display is a tad older |
| 16:14 |
PilzAdam |
dannydark, +water relections +wind in grass = MC mod |
| 16:14 |
Taoki |
torches look nice too :) |
| 16:15 |
Taoki |
If we keep going with commits like this, MineTest will soon be the best voxel-based space out there |
| 16:15 |
VanessaE |
PilzAdam: that begs the question, how *would* you make plantlike nodes wave in a breeze anyway? |
| 16:15 |
darkrose |
_animated |
| 16:16 |
VanessaE |
darkrose: no, I mean how would you make the model itself warp around like they do in MC |
| 16:16 |
celeron55 |
that is probably laughably simple to do with a shader |
| 16:16 |
Taoki |
Hmmmmmm. Now I wonder if shaders can be used to do marching cubes as well :] |
| 16:16 |
VanessaE |
celeron55: I figured it would be. maybe a group setting in a node that (assuming the node is plantlike) allows that shader to distort the node |
| 16:16 |
VanessaE |
groups = {bendy=1} or something. |
| 16:17 |
PilzAdam |
does this water 0.2 nodes lower shader apply to all liquids? or just to water and lava? |
| 16:17 |
Calinou |
all liquids, normally |
| 16:18 |
celeron55 |
now it applies to all liquids |
| 16:18 |
Calinou |
<VanessaE> night->day is nice and smooth now |
| 16:18 |
Calinou |
it was always smooth :P |
| 16:18 |
Calinou |
it's less smooth without shaders but it can be made more smooth with source code change |
| 16:18 |
VanessaE |
Calinou: if you count 14 steps of daylight as smooth :P |
| 16:18 |
VanessaE |
or however many there are |
| 16:18 |
Calinou |
just change the smoothing time to 10 seconds (or enough to make the transition look 100% smooth) > done |
| 16:18 |
VanessaE |
nevertheless, this is a nice improvement. |
| 16:19 |
Calinou |
shaders are very slow, I get below 60FPS if I start two instances of the game |
| 16:19 |
Calinou |
without I can start like 4-5 and have 60FPS |
| 16:19 |
celeron55 |
buy more GPUs |
| 16:19 |
Calinou |
the light/water improvements could be backported to shader-less mode, no? |
| 16:19 |
Calinou |
(new_style_water worked before 0.4 ;)) |
| 16:19 |
celeron55 |
too difficult, and you can't brighten things further with vertex colors |
| 16:20 |
Taoki |
Calinou: I never seen a performance decrease with shaders |
| 16:20 |
thexyz |
https://github.com/celeron55/minetest/pull/330 |
| 16:20 |
* PilzAdam |
neither |
| 16:21 |
VanessaE |
here's an interesting one, I don't know how old this is because I never noticed it before: lava disappears behind water now, but objects behind that lava are still visible. |
| 16:21 |
RealBadAngel |
thexyz: what if it drops more items of the kind? |
| 16:21 |
VanessaE |
http://digitalaudioconcepts.com/vanessa/hobbies/minetest/screenshots/screenshot_1550605553.png |
| 16:22 |
thexyz |
RealBadAngel: umm? |
| 16:22 |
VanessaE |
behind the cursor is three or four lava columns and those glass blocks. |
| 16:22 |
thexyz |
it was returning list of strings in one case and list of ItemStack's in other |
| 16:22 |
thexyz |
and api.txt says it returns list of strings |
| 16:22 |
RealBadAngel |
ah ok |
| 16:23 |
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| 16:50 |
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| 16:53 |
thexyz |
PilzAdam: https://github.com/celeron55/minetest/pull/330 |
| 16:56 |
PilzAdam |
looks ok to me |
| 16:57 |
VanessaE |
wtf!? http://minetest.net/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=54680#p54680 |
| 16:57 |
VanessaE |
oops, wrong channel. |
| 16:59 |
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| 17:11 |
celeron55 |
thexyz: to spare my effort, could you tell how the database wrapper and leveldb code has been tested so far? |
| 17:12 |
celeron55 |
i'm too tired to actually look at it 8) |
| 17:12 |
thexyz |
OldCoder was using leveldb on his server for long time, no problems were found |
| 17:12 |
thexyz |
well, the only problem is that it doesn't compile on windows (that's why there is ENABLE_LEVELDB setting) |
| 17:13 |
celeron55 |
how does the design work for possible future improvements and modifications |
| 17:13 |
celeron55 |
like starting to use sqlite to store more columns for faster access of some things without loading/saving everything |
| 17:15 |
thexyz |
backend only defines beginSave, endSave, saveBlock, loadBlock and listAllLoadableBlocks |
| 17:15 |
RealBadAngel |
leveldb is used on ALL oldcoders servers |
| 17:16 |
RealBadAngel |
and its because sqlite corrupted all the worlds |
| 17:16 |
celeron55 |
so if i add saveTimestamp and loadTimestamp, who is going to implement them for leveldb? |
| 17:16 |
RealBadAngel |
so the migration was forced |
| 17:17 |
RealBadAngel |
leveldb is tested on oldcoders server for more than a month |
| 17:17 |
RealBadAngel |
no problems reported |
| 17:17 |
celeron55 |
dual backend at least doubles work, it might not be viable for a project of this size |
| 17:18 |
RealBadAngel |
in fact it allows to play without server corruption |
| 17:18 |
celeron55 |
i have never had any corruption on my servers that i have ran some months ago for months |
| 17:18 |
RealBadAngel |
all bigger servers were affected with it, when worlds started to regenerate |
| 17:18 |
thexyz |
well, leveldb backend may exist as non-upstream patch too |
| 17:18 |
VanessaE |
celeron55: did your maps exceed 4GB? |
| 17:19 |
celeron55 |
nope |
| 17:19 |
RealBadAngel |
you wont get the problem then |
| 17:19 |
celeron55 |
but that shouldn't be any kind of a limit to sqlite |
| 17:19 |
RealBadAngel |
there is |
| 17:19 |
celeron55 |
there are limits but they are thousands of times more |
| 17:19 |
RealBadAngel |
and worlds starts to regenerate |
| 17:19 |
RealBadAngel |
destroyin all players made stuff |
| 17:20 |
RealBadAngel |
thats why leveldb migration was forced |
| 17:20 |
thexyz |
then how about just implementing that backend thing without actually adding leveldb to main repo? |
| 17:20 |
celeron55 |
thexyz: i could take in the db abstraction and leave leveldb for later |
| 17:20 |
thexyz |
that'd be fine |
| 17:21 |
RealBadAngel |
pity, folks wont be able to play on their servers with latest features |
| 17:21 |
celeron55 |
how is the backend selected? |
| 17:21 |
VanessaE |
celeron55: some people have reported 4GB limits in sqlite outside of the MT community. From the SQLite home page, "The policy was that if it would fit in memory and you could count it with a 32-bit integer, then it should work." |
| 17:21 |
thexyz |
celeron55: i've added setting to world.mt |
| 17:21 |
thexyz |
then there's simple if statement which chooses backend depending on its name |
| 17:22 |
celeron55 |
so you start a leveldb world by creating the directory and adding world.mt with the backend, and then telling minetest to use the world? |
| 17:22 |
thexyz |
or by just migrating sqlite one |
| 17:22 |
celeron55 |
how does that work |
| 17:23 |
RealBadAngel |
we already do have HUGE leveldb worlds |
| 17:23 |
RealBadAngel |
on like 20 servers |
| 17:23 |
thexyz |
it lists all blocks using current backend (like sqlite) and writes them to another one (leveldb in that case) |
| 17:23 |
thexyz |
command line is ./bin/minetestserver --worldname world --migrate leveldb |
| 17:24 |
dannydark |
<PilzAdam> dannydark, +water relections +wind in grass = MC mod - huh? |
| 17:25 |
PilzAdam |
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHHxUzp29HA |
| 17:26 |
RealBadAngel |
ive seen a video of another voxel game |
| 17:26 |
RealBadAngel |
with way better shaders |
| 17:26 |
dannydark |
Oh yeah I've seen that, just didn't get why I was highlighted? haha |
| 17:27 |
RealBadAngel |
tryin to recall its name, it is still WIP |
| 17:27 |
PilzAdam |
oh, it was darkrose |
| 17:27 |
PilzAdam |
sry |
| 17:27 |
dannydark |
hehe no worries ^_^ |
| 17:28 |
PilzAdam |
btw: BF3 FTW |
| 17:28 |
RealBadAngel |
got the name its Terasology |
| 17:29 |
dannydark |
Yeah ^_^ can't get enough of it recently...just waiting for Tuesday for the new dlc :D |
| 17:29 |
thexyz |
guys, can you discuss that somewhere else? |
| 17:30 |
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| 17:30 |
OldCoder |
Hello. I was invited by RealBadAngel. |
| 17:31 |
RealBadAngel |
celeron55, oldcoder can tell you bout problems with sqlite on his servers |
| 17:31 |
RealBadAngel |
and leveldb migration |
| 17:31 |
celeron55 |
i don't need to hear more |
| 17:32 |
celeron55 |
i'm going to ask thexyz more questions and you two better be quiet |
| 17:32 |
OldCoder |
One question only if I may... |
| 17:32 |
hmmmm |
http://ompldr.org/vZ2piOQ/screenshot_1554513921.png |
| 17:32 |
hmmmm |
progress lel |
| 17:32 |
Calinou |
dat minimal game |
| 17:32 |
OldCoder |
As I have just arrived. Have decisions about upstream merges been delegated to three people? If so what do they say? |
| 17:33 |
celeron55 |
i take care of the big ones |
| 17:33 |
OldCoder |
All right |
| 17:33 |
OldCoder |
It's good to see you're involved |
| 17:33 |
OldCoder |
I take it there's some controversy. Very well. |
| 17:34 |
celeron55 |
...i've been coding minetest 24/7 (minus sleep) for the whole week |
| 17:34 |
celeron55 |
(and minus work) |
| 17:34 |
OldCoder |
Rest |
| 17:34 |
OldCoder |
Why do this? |
| 17:34 |
celeron55 |
why not |
| 17:34 |
OldCoder |
Then it is your decision |
| 17:35 |
celeron55 |
i know how to not burn out; i was just pointing out your wrongness in my non-involvement |
| 17:35 |
OldCoder |
Who is "your" ? Debate should be technical. celeron55 is involved. |
| 17:35 |
celeron55 |
anyway, let's stop this crap |
| 17:35 |
celeron55 |
--- |
| 17:35 |
hmmmm |
it's certainly not engine development discussion |
| 17:36 |
celeron55 |
thexyz: has somebody used that database backend wrapper with sqlite for extended lengths of time? |
| 17:36 |
hmmmm |
he just said so |
| 17:36 |
celeron55 |
also, has it been tested with super-ancient worlds (the sectors format) or was it dropped? |
| 17:37 |
celeron55 |
i see some related code but code doesn't say much about that, it's likely to not work if it hasn't been tested |
| 17:38 |
thexyz |
don't know about sqlite, i personally wasn't using it with that patch; it shouldn't break anything though as it's just redesign without changing sqlite-related code |
| 17:38 |
thexyz |
and i haven't tested sectors at all |
| 17:39 |
thexyz |
because i don't have any worlds which use sectors |
| 17:39 |
celeron55 |
the sectors support should probably be dropped, as there is the conversion tool for that |
| 17:39 |
celeron55 |
and it works badly anyway (at least in current c55/master) |
| 17:40 |
celeron55 |
mainly because there are some miscellaneous other incompatibilities with that old data |
| 17:40 |
celeron55 |
there shouldn't be, but many have slipped in |
| 17:41 |
hmmmm |
indeed, there are many opportunities for cleaning up minetest... with farmesh removed, old map support, cleaned up lighting et al. i bet the code base can be shrunken by 2kloc |
| 17:44 |
celeron55 |
thexyz: i'm leaving this on it's whole out from 0.4.4, but it will be handled in the near future by doing testing and then merging the abstraction part upstream |
| 17:45 |
celeron55 |
we need to be *very* sure the sqlite part isn't going to do anything bad |
| 17:45 |
thexyz |
ok |
| 17:46 |
OldCoder |
Could the SQLite3 part be dropped except for import/export? |
| 17:46 |
celeron55 |
and an another thing is to structure the code of handling multiple backends so that it's unlikely to cause merge conflicts when server admins apply leveldb support to any version |
| 17:47 |
celeron55 |
OldCoder: at least not anytime soon |
| 17:47 |
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| 17:47 |
OldCoder |
rubenwardy, Hi |
| 17:48 |
rubenwardy |
hi |
| 17:50 |
celeron55 |
sqlite has the huge benefit of being widely available for external tools made in any language |
| 17:51 |
RealBadAngel |
what about the fact it also corrupt worlds? |
| 17:52 |
celeron55 |
singleplayer worlds never grow so large and admins of huge servers know what they are doing |
| 17:53 |
Calinou |
admins of huge servers don't put world limiting mods, rarely (and anyway, cheating lets you go through these walls) |
| 17:53 |
Calinou |
ask redcrab/ghostshell |
| 17:54 |
celeron55 |
i am not saying leveldb would never be used upstream, but i am not confident in doing that now |
| 17:54 |
RealBadAngel |
redcrab also suffered that issue |
| 17:54 |
celeron55 |
i haven't even searched any other alternatives yet |
| 17:57 |
OldCoder |
Decision seems to be made. I'll note for future though (a) 4GB limit is gone (b) Faster storage (c) Supports import and export (d) Less corruption. As an operator of 18 worlds including some approaching 0.5GB I am pleased. |
| 17:58 |
OldCoder |
thexyz, thank you again for this marvelous work.\ |
| 17:58 |
OldCoder |
The \ was a typo |
| 17:59 |
OldCoder |
celeron55, another technical question. Simple one. Could not this feature be present as optional? Then everybody might be satisfied. |
| 18:00 |
celeron55 |
19:18:24 < celeron55> dual backend at least doubles work, it might not be viable for a project of this size |
| 18:01 |
celeron55 |
i don't want to have anything upstream that won't be always up to date |
| 18:01 |
OldCoder |
Very well |
| 18:01 |
celeron55 |
i am committed to keeping sqlite up and running until i decide otherwise, and i don't want to double my work |
| 18:02 |
OldCoder |
All right. Good luck. thexyz branch will remain my standard. There can be no going back to SQLite3. We will feed patches upstream when possible. And merge some downstream too. The software is hereby forked. |
| 18:03 |
celeron55 |
well, i'm going to make sure it's easy to apply the leveldb branch to any version (after the abstraction layer is merged) |
| 18:03 |
OldCoder |
Good. celeron55 call on me if you need assistance. I trust you are enjoying the work despite exhaustion. |
| 18:04 |
celeron55 |
has anyone been testing the db layer with this? https://github.com/celeron55/minetest-worldtest/ |
| 18:04 |
OldCoder |
R |
| 18:04 |
celeron55 |
that could possibly be extended to support testing of backend migrations |
| 18:05 |
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| 18:05 |
celeron55 |
try running it 8) |
| 18:05 |
celeron55 |
it's fun to watch |
| 18:06 |
celeron55 |
it'll test compatibility between various versions from 0.3.1 to 0.4.3 |
| 18:06 |
OldCoder |
Later perhaps. Time has barely permitted maintaining the existing worlds. They are an interesting test in and of themselves. I have Calinou World, Zegaton, Harbor, and even LM Creative. |
| 18:06 |
OldCoder |
All seem to work perfectly relative to database format. |
| 18:06 |
OldCoder |
I asked Ghostshell for Gameboom world. He did not answer and now that world is gone again :-( |
| 18:07 |
OldCoder |
I presume the discussion here is done |
| 18:07 |
celeron55 |
the current sqlite support was coded by some guy related to gameboom because the sectors format didn't scale up to their server needs 8) |
| 18:07 |
OldCoder |
Heh. They have hit the limits. And then some. |
| 18:07 |
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| 18:08 |
celeron55 |
that's a long ago... more than a year |
| 18:08 |
OldCoder |
In Internet time it is millenia |
| 18:08 |
celeron55 |
more like year and a half, actually |
| 18:08 |
OldCoder |
Billenia then :p |
| 18:09 |
Calinou |
september 2011, 1.25 year :p |
| 18:09 |
hmmmm |
arhg |
| 18:09 |
hmmmm |
all of my mapgen's problems were either directly or indirectly related to the damn VoxelArea's buffer zone |
| 18:09 |
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| 18:10 |
celeron55 |
wut? |
| 18:10 |
|
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| 18:10 |
hmmmm |
things are working much better |
| 18:10 |
hmmmm |
now it's time to work on the lua stuff |
| 18:12 |
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| 18:26 |
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| 18:29 |
Taoki |
Any chance for minecarts to make it in 0.4.4? |
| 18:29 |
PilzAdam |
they are too buggy |
| 18:29 |
Taoki |
I tested them on many servers. The basic idea would be that currently, they work well, only that at some corners they suddenly stop and throw you out for no reason. It also seems that if the server is gagging you get stuck in them until you re-log yourself |
| 18:29 |
Taoki |
ok |
| 18:30 |
Taoki |
**lagging |
| 18:34 |
Taoki |
Damn. Since today the client keeps closing itself on any server I go after some time |
| 18:35 |
Taoki |
Hope it's not one of those segmentation things again. Happened all day today >_> |
| 18:35 |
Taoki |
and now again |
| 18:48 |
celeron55 |
http://pastebin.com/4WyUFK0k |
| 18:48 |
celeron55 |
hmm... |
| 18:49 |
PilzAdam |
farwasteland? |
| 18:49 |
darkrose |
someone has a branch fetish |
| 18:50 |
celeron55 |
i leave them hanging around just in case, and then forget which of them are deleteable and which are not |
| 18:51 |
celeron55 |
PilzAdam: it was a test to generate some kind of wasteland to far places |
| 18:52 |
Taoki |
I wonder if torches and light-emmittnig blocks can specify the intensity / distance of lights. Though I assume not... |
| 18:52 |
celeron55 |
it was actually quite cool, but dunno; people wouldn't generally like it |
| 18:53 |
dannydark |
any screenshots? ^_^ |
| 18:53 |
celeron55 |
Taoki: they can, but torches are almost as bright as it allows |
| 18:53 |
Taoki |
oh, ok. Good to know |
| 18:54 |
Taoki |
BTW. If anyone wants you can join VanessaE's server. I'm curious to see what the improvement on bandwidth is since that change with idle players |
| 18:54 |
Taoki |
At an average |
| 18:54 |
OldCoder |
Is there an idle players patch I should merge? |
| 18:54 |
Taoki |
OldCoder: No, it's been merged |
| 18:55 |
Taoki |
OldCoder: I made a patch so players who stand still don't send any position updatee packets to the server, and in turn the server doesn't sent position updates to other clients |
| 18:55 |
celeron55 |
dannydark: i seem to have two: http://c55.me/random/2012-04/screenshot_2198089407.png http://c55.me/random/2012-04/screenshot_2116280199.png |
| 18:56 |
OldCoder |
Taoki, I don't have upstream. Could you PM me the patch link? |
| 18:56 |
VanessaE |
celeron55: I'm curious if the performance is better for you on my server also |
| 18:56 |
celeron55 |
can't test now |
| 18:56 |
celeron55 |
crappy connection that doesn't even pass udp through |
| 18:56 |
Taoki |
OldCoder: It's a modified GIT branch. Sadly it's hard if you aren't keeping up with latest upstream |
| 18:56 |
Taoki |
ok |
| 18:57 |
OldCoder |
All right ty |
| 18:57 |
VanessaE |
ok. Whenever you are ready to, it will be up. 24.181.193.82 port 30000. |
| 18:57 |
celeron55 |
(yes, my adsl is once again broken... it has a tendency to break on friday evenings) |
| 18:57 |
dannydark |
celeron55: don't seem to be loading for me at the moment :( just timing out will try to have another look later ^_^ |
| 18:58 |
celeron55 |
oh |
| 18:58 |
celeron55 |
you're right |
| 18:58 |
celeron55 |
it's on this side of the broken adsl |
| 18:58 |
celeron55 |
well whatever... |
| 18:59 |
dannydark |
ah makes sense, well I've pinned them so will try again at some other time. just intrested to see what it looked like as I quite like the idea of wasteland type area |
| 18:59 |
celeron55 |
i guess i'll upload somewhere then |
| 19:00 |
dannydark |
don't worry too much about it I don't mind looking again later when you're adsl is playin nice |
| 19:00 |
dannydark |
+g |
| 19:01 |
celeron55 |
http://misc.minetest.net/farwasteland_1.png |
| 19:05 |
Taoki |
looks nice |
| 19:05 |
Taoki |
BTW... what about farming mod? That's beenr eady for sooooooo long too |
| 19:06 |
PilzAdam |
Im waiting for RealBadAngel to finish the textures |
| 19:06 |
Taoki |
oh, righty then |
| 19:07 |
dannydark |
nice ^_^ the lava looks a tad out of place but I reckon thats just a texture thing, it would be nice to see this make it back into the mapgen at some point ^_^ |
| 19:07 |
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| 19:12 |
celeron55 |
dunno; i guess we'll get something like that as a mod if and hopefully when it gets some modding support |
| 19:12 |
* celeron55 |
points at hmmmm |
| 19:12 |
celeron55 |
ehm |
| 19:12 |
celeron55 |
s/it/mapgen/ |
| 19:12 |
Taoki |
BTW, a problem I wanted to point out for some days (not sure if it's really a problem). Why are we still using 2 nodes for doors? I saw doors in custom nodes which are made of only one node, only that the nodebox / collision size extends to 2 blocks. Only one entity, one collosion box, etc |
| 19:12 |
Taoki |
I'd find it better in all ways for all doors to be like that |
| 19:13 |
PilzAdam |
it causes some textures bugs |
| 19:14 |
Taoki |
ahh, ok |
| 19:14 |
Taoki |
VanessaE: poke. It's 4 players on the server now... what's average bandwidth? |
| 19:23 |
Taoki |
celeron55: BTW. The same way top surfaces of blocks are brightened, shouldn't bottom surfaces be darkened? Would look even nicer for eg: Cave ceilings |
| 19:24 |
Taoki |
So sides = unmodifies, top = brighter (like shaders do now), but bottom = darker (by the same amount top is brighter) |
| 19:45 |
VanessaE |
Taoki: about 15 kB/sec |
| 19:45 |
VanessaE |
but people are moving around doing stuff |
| 19:45 |
Taoki |
VanessaE: Ok. Weird since it shouldn't be using that much |
| 19:45 |
hmmmm |
farwasteland? |
| 19:45 |
Taoki |
More like 1kbps from what I know |
| 19:46 |
VanessaE |
I'm not sure how much of that is the server and how much is coming from routine network access on my box and on abe's |
| 19:46 |
hmmmm |
what's that, screwed up map past coordinates 4096? |
| 19:46 |
VanessaE |
brb |
| 19:47 |
VanessaE |
ok. |
| 19:49 |
Taoki |
VanessaE: Ah... if it's your total machine bandwidth it's likely other things too |
| 19:49 |
VanessaE |
ok, got nethogs running. |
| 19:50 |
Taoki |
you'd need to know how much minetestserver is using specificallyt |
| 19:51 |
VanessaE |
heh, it's so low it isn't even showing up in the list. |
| 19:53 |
Taoki |
might even be under 1kbps |
| 19:55 |
VanessaE |
bah, nethogs only shows tcp, not udp. |
| 19:56 |
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| 20:00 |
VanessaE |
there we go, let's see how iptraf works. |
| 20:03 |
VanessaE |
Taoki: sign off, clear your cache, sign back on |
| 20:04 |
VanessaE |
I wanna make sure this tool is actually reporting on UDP:30000 |
| 20:12 |
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| 20:13 |
VanessaE |
strange.. is the server using any port other than 30000? |
| 20:24 |
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| 20:44 |
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| 20:50 |
Taoki |
VanessaE: back. Still need me to do that? |
| 20:51 |
VanessaE |
no |
| 20:51 |
VanessaE |
RBA did but I didn't see anything in iptraf that looked like it was coming from MT |
| 20:51 |
VanessaE |
(yet he says it transferred at a reasonable speed this time). |
| 20:52 |
VanessaE |
does MT use any other port besides 30000 (or whatever)? |
| 21:05 |
Taoki |
Just had another idea: Could clients store a permanent cache (up to a certain size limit) of the world on each server? So that when they connect to a server again they don't have to receive all of the chunks? Maybe just the changes after that... not sure if this would work out at all |
| 21:16 |
jin_xi |
hm so when shaders are used item images of nodeboxes look alright, but in-game they look flat |
| 21:31 |
Taoki |
VanessaE: Suddenly, your server is extremely slow to login to again |
| 21:32 |
VanessaE |
weird, I'm not even on it right now, but I am doing some testing in another MT instance, trying to debug something unrelated. |
| 21:33 |
VanessaE |
(and my tests are hogging CPU pretty badly, but I expected it) |
| 21:39 |
celeron55 |
oh interesting... i happened to get the editbox segfault while using a debug build of irrlicht with core dumps enabled |
| 21:43 |
celeron55 |
https://raw.github.com/gist/4191188/1fc5b2ae84412a9ae449d6d0dcf9412486c428d4/gistfile1.txt |
| 21:43 |
celeron55 |
looks useless to me, but in case somebody is interested |
| 21:53 |
Taoki |
https://github.com/celeron55/minetest/pull/333 |
| 21:59 |
celeron55 |
dim bottom suits less lighting situations than just a bright top |
| 22:00 |
celeron55 |
also you're checking three too many variables, you could just check for y < -0.5 |
| 22:02 |
Taoki |
celeron55: Just pulled latest master and noticed you already changed some things there, so I guess that would no longer make sense now. If you think darker bottom works too you can probably add it in... I think it looks a lot better but that depends |
| 22:02 |
celeron55 |
i guess i'll try it some day |
| 22:03 |
Taoki |
Well it's just one line of code, so it can be tried in 2 minutes :P |
| 22:03 |
celeron55 |
i modified that part a bit to make it do the multiplication in linear-ish color space; it is the "right" thing to do |
| 22:03 |
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| 22:03 |
Taoki |
yeah, that sounds correct |
| 22:04 |
celeron55 |
otherwise it's sRGB the gamma of which makes multiplied colors screwed |
| 22:04 |
celeron55 |
you see that way screwed colors everywhere but it doesn't make it less wrong |
| 22:05 |
celeron55 |
even in minetest 8) |
| 22:05 |
Taoki |
I noticed some blocks appeared overly whitened |
| 22:05 |
celeron55 |
it's the lazy thing to do |
| 22:06 |
celeron55 |
they do that probably because i added an exposure function in the shader; it allows bright things to still have their detail visible |
| 22:06 |
celeron55 |
it kind of lessens colors while doing it at the bright end |
| 22:06 |
Taoki |
Ahh... I forgot to take any screenshots >.< But I can say bottomside darkness looks a lot better too. |
| 22:06 |
Taoki |
Also, |
| 22:07 |
Taoki |
I'd suggest making water 1 or 2 pixels lower. 3 seems a bit too much to me |
| 22:08 |
celeron55 |
i like it as is |
| 22:08 |
celeron55 |
if you want to change it, you'll have to collect votes 8) |
| 22:08 |
Taoki |
ok |
| 22:08 |
celeron55 |
i'll probably reimplement it in C++ when i'm less lazy though; it doesn't make much sense in a shader |
| 22:09 |
Taoki |
Yeah... this one is simple enough to do there |
| 22:10 |
Taoki |
I wanna see if I can find some free post-processing code and add it in. But I'm not sure yet how you call shaders properly from the MineTest code |
| 22:10 |
Taoki |
I should be able to adapt such shaders if I find any though, and make a setting for each |
| 22:10 |
Taoki |
My main focuses are bloom, motion blur, depth of field, reflective / refractive water. I know some won't like this, but some will... so each should have a menu setting and everyone is happy then :P |
| 22:11 |
Taoki |
Just wonder if I can find any free code for Irrlicht shaders of this type |
| 22:35 |
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