Time  Nick         Message
00:01 Taoki        So hardware lighting is still to be done... but it should be easier now. Anyway, I soooo gotta look for bloom and water reflection / reflection shaders now *fangirl squeal*
00:01 Taoki        xD
00:02 celeron55    (actually, i did add some fancier calculations to work in linear color space and use an exponential exposure function to not burn out stuff like snow but whatever)
00:03 Taoki        nic
00:03 Taoki        **nice
00:03 celeron55    it's odd how powerful the GPU is in even the suckiest cards these days
00:04 celeron55    you can do fairly complex calculations for every pixel on the screen in every frame
00:05 Taoki        yeah. Was just going to say I see absolutely no performance decrease with shaders. Which makes sense, since I have a very modern video card. But for things as simple as this, even old cards should have no problem
01:52 VanessaE     celeron55: nice work on the shaders code.  light-emitting objects are too dark, but otherwise it seems to work well.  No apparent performance loss here.
02:17 VanessaE     celeron55: recommendations:  light the north, south, east, and west sides of the cubes slightly differently (not much, maybe mas 5% between darkest and brightest).  Reduce the top-side lighting by 25%.   Automatically move signlike and raillike objects that are placed on water (e.g. flowers:waterlilies) down to meet the newly-positioned water surface.
02:18 VanessaE     s/mas/max/
02:19 VanessaE     s/waterlilies/waterlily/
02:31 SitDog       i've been catching up with the lighting code discussion.  my 2 cents is that we shouldn't go overboard with them.  i love high end stuff, but the simple graphics of minetest is pleasing to me.
02:31 SitDog       it's a good break :D
02:52 hmmmm        what on earth....
02:52 VanessaE     ?
02:54 hmmmm        i don't understand...
02:54 hmmmm        you know how i was having issues with lighting
02:54 hmmmm        all of a sudden i'm not
02:54 hmmmm        i didn't change anything at all
02:55 hmmmm        i just added in a printf statement in between propogatesunlight and unspreadlight
02:55 hmmmm        which would mean "aha, race condition" - except when i removed it, it still worked
02:55 VanessaE     yes of course.  Odd thing to cause it to "just work"?
02:55 hmmmm        something really weird is up
02:55 VanessaE     maybe you made some other change you just forgot about?
02:55 hmmmm        nope
02:56 hmmmm        maybe it was a combination of changes
02:56 VanessaE     possible
02:58 hmmmm        okay i figured out what the problem is
02:58 hmmmm        but i'm not sure how to fix it
02:59 VanessaE     celeron55: recommendation:  page flipping in creative turns the screen black while the display is being regenerated, if the item preload thing is turned off.  Suggest defaulting it to on to restore the old behavior until a suitable workaround is found.  I suggest, in that regard, that the display either be double-buffered (with a "Rendering next/previous page..." message at the bottom), or that the page be re-painted an ite
02:59 VanessaE     m at a time without the black screen (draw an empty inventory, then fill it)
03:05 hmmmm        i am looking at the size of the light_sources and unlight_from... generating from full_node_min.Y to full_node_max.Y causes odd variance between sizes of light_sources, namely 512000, 716800, and 385280.   also, i must force overtop_has_sunlight = true for this to occur
03:05 hmmmm        without overtop_has_sunlight, there is nothing at all added to light_sources
03:06 hmmmm        using the combination of generating from node_min.Y to node_max.Y and overtop_has_sunlight = true being forced, however, produces darkness
03:07 hmmmm        i've already thought about CONTENT_IGNORE blocking the sunlight, so i set that to sunlight propogates = true in nodedef for a second, and that didn't do what i expected it to
03:09 hmmmm        i'm getting somewhere at least
03:29 SitDog       i am not having problems with lighting if that was directed at me.  i was just saying that the simplicity of the project is what attracted me to it :)
03:56 RealBadAngel SitDog, its an option and some just love it
03:56 RealBadAngel you can still stick to simplest settings
04:02 SitDog       i guess that is true.  i just need a setting called "drunk & pixelated"
04:02 VanessaE     haha
04:04 SitDog       I have finished up a tempfile class.  it automatically handles writing data to a temporary file.  that is you write to the temporary file until you close the object.  it then attempts to rename the temp file to the target file -- and creates a backup of an existing target file.
04:06 SitDog       so, very little changes as far as the code flow, but if you run out of disk space or the file system becomes corrupt, you will not trash a valid file.
04:16 SitDog       celeron55 mentioned an issue with the far rendering distance.  i don't recall exactly what that was, but i would like to take a look at it.
04:20 VanessaE     the automatic FPS control I think he meant.
04:20 VanessaE     the rendering distance is supposed to vary closer or farther to keep the client FPS at whatever's configured in minetest.conf I guess
04:21 VanessaE     instead it is..well "badly broken" I think he said, but I don't recall why.
05:00 SitDog       i will take a look at it.
05:01 SitDog       I didn't commit the temp file thing yet.
05:23 hmmmm        alright back to working on minetest
05:24 hmmmm        so i got everything fully working - turns out the actual problem was that nodes underneath the overtop were CONTENT_IGNORE
05:24 hmmmm        because i was writing to nodes that were in the buffer zone
05:25 hmmmm        i didn't realize how intricate the VoxelArea thingy was
05:52 hmmmm        hrmm
05:54 hmmmm        the segfaults that happen when "too much is going on" seems to be due to updateLighting() adding too many nodes to light_sources
05:55 hmmmm        i'll leave it unfixed (because an actual fix would require a lot of work) since that lighting code may be ripped out soon anyway or not used much anymore
05:58 RealBadAngel hey, dont stop
05:59 RealBadAngel make it work, please
05:59 hmmmm        it seems like this is an irrlicht bug
06:00 hmmmm        well
06:00 hmmmm        actually a libsupc++.so.1 bug
06:00 RealBadAngel have you checked 1.8 code for it?
06:00 hmmmm        what....?
06:00 hmmmm        that has nothing to do with what i'm talking about
06:01 RealBadAngel you told irrlicht bug
06:01 hmmmm        yeah it is an irrlicht bug, if it's smashing the heap like i think it is
06:01 RealBadAngel we are using outdated version of it
06:01 hmmmm        that's okay.
06:01 RealBadAngel like 1.7.1
06:02 hmmmm        we aren't, maybe you are.  i'm personally using 1.7.3
06:02 RealBadAngel why not current stable?
06:03 hmmmm        because it's too new?
06:03 hmmmm        that won't fix the problem anyway
06:03 RealBadAngel since they have stable released each 6 months
06:03 RealBadAngel stable means well tested
06:03 RealBadAngel read their forums
06:04 RealBadAngel before release the stable they have a month of freeze
06:05 hmmmm        yes, but that doesn't change that most operating systems don't have 1.8 available
06:05 RealBadAngel thats the other thing
06:06 RealBadAngel but if it appears that the problem is in just upgrading to new libs...
06:07 hmmmm        it's not a problem at all, because we're not upgrading to new versions of libraries for no reason
06:07 RealBadAngel im dont know, just a thoight
06:08 RealBadAngel Jeija was doing something and said movin to it is necesary
06:08 RealBadAngel but i dont know the reason now
06:08 hmmmm        probably because of the texture mipmapping bug
06:09 hmmmm        it's fine if you use 1.8 in windows builds or anything where the library is redistributed, but you can NOT rely on 1.8's behavior
06:10 Calinou      <RealBadAngel> since they have stable released each 6 months
06:10 Calinou      lol nope
06:10 hmmmm        if you really must do so, you need to include a preprocessor check of which irrlicht version it's being built with
06:10 Calinou      every two years for debian rusty...
06:10 Calinou      8 months before the release: debian stale is frozen
06:10 hmmmm        and use the appropriate non-breaking behavior for older ones
06:10 RealBadAngel Calinou, i was talkin bout Irrlicht engine
06:10 Calinou      oh
06:12 * Calinou    should ctrl+f more often
06:13 RealBadAngel Calinou, have you tested UI?
06:14 Calinou      my inventory flashes when i click on something in creative inv
06:14 RealBadAngel delete default creative mod
06:15 hmmmm        okay this just turned into a real problem
06:15 RealBadAngel need to find a way to disable it without deleting tho
06:15 Calinou      the creative inv you made is pretty good
06:15 Calinou      search is case-sensitive, though
06:15 Calinou      shouldn't ;)
06:15 RealBadAngel thats why im askin folks to test
06:16 RealBadAngel to gather info what should be improved
06:16 RealBadAngel btw enter case is solved already, but needs another patch to be merged
06:17 Calinou      bag textures look 2D in hand
06:17 Calinou      you probably didn't threshold alpha ;)
06:17 RealBadAngel the code is cornernote's
06:17 RealBadAngel i left it almost intact
06:18 RealBadAngel they propably could be better
06:19 RealBadAngel with the latest patch search is even more comfortable
06:19 RealBadAngel search button is not needed at all
06:20 RealBadAngel im workin now on updating the search results realtime
06:20 RealBadAngel when user is typing the query
06:21 Calinou      that'll make the server lag since the search is server-side..
06:22 RealBadAngel will have to be tested then
06:22 RealBadAngel if it will really be producing lags i will drop the idea
06:24 RealBadAngel offtopic: http://faildesk.net/2012/02/21/finally-a-true-purpose-for-internet-explorer/
06:27 Calinou      lol
06:32 RealBadAngel http://faildesk.net/2012/11/30/ie-10-sucks-less-and-microsoft-wants-you-admit-it/
06:32 RealBadAngel thats good :)
08:42 celeron55    hmmmm: the voxel lighting will not be ripped out anytime soon, if ever
08:42 celeron55    if it's up to me, not in years
08:43 hmmmm        mm yes, nevermind that.
08:43 hmmmm        it was my fault, i was corrupting the the heap a little
08:43 hmmmm        it really looked like irrlicht's problem though.
08:43 celeron55    it does a good job of making the game look different to everything generic opengl stuff out there
08:44 celeron55    (and also it has the gameplay utility of making it easy for stuff to look up where it is dark and where not)
08:45 hmmmm        then perhaps it could use an overhaul
08:45 celeron55    why?
08:45 Calinou      change its default colors to look more like shaders, and make the top face of blocks brighter?
08:45 Calinou      minecraft uses voxel lights, sides of blocks are darker, so this is possible
08:45 celeron55    Calinou: ...the shaders branch uses voxel lighting
08:46 hmmmm        at the very minimum, the part where it allocates about a half million nodes can be changed
08:46 hmmmm        3/4ths of a million actually
08:46 celeron55    if you want to optimize it, go ahead
08:46 celeron55    you'll have hard time though
08:46 hmmmm        i'm confident i can do something about it
08:46 hmmmm        but, that'll come later
08:46 celeron55    do you mean the VoxelManipulator part?
08:47 celeron55    it's pretty important, because it makes a linear array of the whole problem
08:47 celeron55    the regular minetest map abstraction is too slow for huge bulk operations, and it cannot be used in threads
08:47 hmmmm        mm no, unlight_from and light_sources
08:47 hmmmm        those are the offenders
08:47 celeron55    ok
08:48 hmmmm        and it takes up the vast majority of the mapgen time
08:48 celeron55    i assume you can figure out what they do
08:48 hmmmm        no i know exactly what they do
08:48 hmmmm        i spent way too much time on the lighting problem
08:48 hmmmm        i'm pretty familiar with all that code
08:50 RealBadAngel hi celeron55
08:51 RealBadAngel if you want to try whats possible thanks to the changes to formspec: http://realbadangel.pl/UI.zip
08:52 RealBadAngel i made complete overhaul of inventory
08:53 celeron55    RealBadAngel: how about a github repo and screenshots; much handier
08:53 RealBadAngel its WIP
08:54 hmmmm        having to unzip someone's file is so cumbersome though
08:54 RealBadAngel screenshots wont tell you how it works on the other hand
08:54 RealBadAngel finding an item is now damm fast and easy
08:54 RealBadAngel even within thousands of aviable ones
08:56 hmmmm        oh
08:57 RealBadAngel i used to have 60+ pages in creative, now i do have less then 20
08:57 hmmmm        completely different subject, but what do you say about eventually removing farmesh entirely?
08:57 celeron55    it will be rewritten in a different way... some day
08:57 hmmmm        with a super fast mapgen like this and much faster rendering, i am not so sure if it's necessary
08:57 celeron55    could be removed currently though, it's useless as-is
08:58 PilzAdam     (working) farmesh would be a nice feature
08:58 hmmmm        would you like to make it happen!? :)
08:58 RealBadAngel hehe
08:58 RealBadAngel PilzAdam you have been choseen as a volunteer ;)
08:58 hmmmm        no seriously don't
08:59 hmmmm        we need to come up with a new idea for farmesh first (if we even actually need it by the time we get around to it)
08:59 celeron55    i have plans to make it work using "mapblock impostors"
09:02 celeron55    there are much details of implementation to find out and figure out, but i am quite positive it will work, somehow
09:03 PilzAdam     I guess the new_style_water can be removed since we got shaders
09:03 hmmmm        wouldn't that still kinda take up a lot of memory
09:04 celeron55    PilzAdam: no need to hurry for that
09:04 celeron55    hmmmm: dunno; it's all in the details
09:05 celeron55    the close quality of them can be screwed up by a huge lot without making them useless
09:06 celeron55    on modern computers, we're talking about things further away than like 160 nodes
09:06 celeron55    on slower ones, people will be happy to see even something
09:07 hmmmm        this is just me, but i'm using an 8400gs and i don't typically have a problem with full range view enabled
09:07 hmmmm        especially after that texture switch reordering
09:08 hmmmm        oh yes this is good
09:08 hmmmm        with my new biome setup, you can assign an average color to each
09:08 hmmmm        for example, the average color of a desert biome would be orange
09:09 celeron55    lol... why would you do that
09:09 celeron55    that's not even close to how real biomes are formed
09:09 hmmmm        huh?
09:10 RealBadAngel seen red deserts in aegypt
09:10 hmmmm        you mean the biome code i committed to my own repository?
09:10 hmmmm        it probably isn't, i don't know how real biomes are formed, that's just what came to me
09:11 celeron55    how does it handle two biomes that have the same average color but completely different "functionality"
09:11 hmmmm        oh no no you misunderstood
09:11 celeron55    you're quite unclear in what you say
09:11 hmmmm        with the fake mapblocks you're going to have reduced detail
09:11 RealBadAngel celeron55, https://github.com/RealBadAngel/unifiedinventory
09:12 hmmmm        and instead of using the color of each node or whatever
09:12 celeron55    oh yes
09:12 hmmmm        if that fake mapblock is in a certain biome you can just make a sub-node group of say 4x4 with that average color
09:13 celeron55    if your mapgen turns out good and has the preview generation abilities you've been talking about, it will be useful for creating the data for far rendering
09:13 hmmmm        yea
09:13 SitDog       offtopic: some feedback on code quality & style. http://ideone.com/6gh1J7
09:13 celeron55    but the colors have to be found out on the client side from the textures it is using
09:13 celeron55    the server can't know how what it is sending is supposed to look
09:13 hmmmm        oh gosh that's true
09:14 hmmmm        i need to get to sleep, it's 4:15 am
09:14 hmmmm        that's a pretty big problem... i'll think of something
09:14 celeron55    you'll have to use node ids instead of colors
09:14 celeron55    no other option 8)
09:17 dannydark    I was thinking about adding noclip a priv and splitting it from fly, so if someone had the noclip priv they could still fly through the ground etc but without it they would still be able to fly (with the fly priv of course) just not through the ground as my brother wants to give some people on his server fly privileges but doesn't want them noclipping through the ground to cheat at getting ores etc. Would you be happy to accept this change
09:17 celeron55    maybe change the equivalent of what you currently transfer as a color to two node ids (to be able to average from them; better than one but not much worse than 3), and the client will figure out which side of them it will use based on context
09:18 celeron55    dannydark: got cut at "this change u"
09:18 dannydark    accept this change upstream? as I feel it could be useful for other servers to well...maybe ^_^*
09:18 dannydark    sorry it said it had sent fine on mine :S
09:19 celeron55    irc cuts too long messages; you should get a client that will split them 8)
09:19 dannydark    haha yeah, I'm on my windows box so using trillian
09:20 celeron55    anyway; that would indeed be useful, maybe someone could look into it
09:22 dannydark    Ok, I will take a look at the code in a sec and get working on it
09:23 celeron55    it's probably quite simple
09:24 celeron55    just add a new description of a privilege and modify localplayer.cpp
09:24 dannydark    yeah I did it in 0.3 ages ago for his server but as hes running latest master now he wants it to be added again haha
09:24 RealBadAngel dannydark: +1 for the idea
09:24 RealBadAngel that could make the jetpack idea usable
09:25 dannydark    ^_^ oh yeah think I saw that jetpack mod, so it needed fly priv to work?
09:25 celeron55    not really; a jetpack requires taking away direct control from the player but keeping the collision detection going
09:26 celeron55    and be independent of privileges
09:26 dannydark    yeah was going to say if it did use fly priv that it wouldn't be the ideal way to do it
09:26 RealBadAngel separation of fly and noclip is needed in the first place
09:27 RealBadAngel i thought of simple tool when weared and charged could let player fly
09:28 celeron55    well, yeah, a hacky implementation could indeed be done with a fly privilege without noclip
09:28 RealBadAngel like with fly priv, but noclip makes it nonsense
09:28 PilzAdam     https://gist.github.com/4187946
09:29 dannydark    yeah, ideally though It would be nice to have it work without fly priv, especially on survival only servers where admins don't want people to be able to fly about (at least without the jetpack...which would also be limited flying with some sort of fuel consumption maybe)
09:30 RealBadAngel i got the code for it almost done
09:31 RealBadAngel just need correct privs
09:31 PilzAdam     should the client be able to swtich noclip if he has the noclip priv?
09:31 RealBadAngel its a power tool
09:31 RealBadAngel you have to craft it, charge and then you can use it
09:31 dannydark    PilzAdam: nice, wouldn't that stop people from using fly though (if noclip priv is not allowed)?
09:32 dannydark    PilzAdam: I don't think so, I think if someone has noclip and fly then let them noclip while flying (otherwise it means adding more controls etc)
09:32 PilzAdam     in this case the patch is ready
09:33 RealBadAngel that problem wont rise on most of the servers
09:33 dannydark    RealBadAngel: ah nice, will be nice to see it in action when its ready
09:33 RealBadAngel need just a way to switch on/off nocliped fly
09:33 Calinou      i'd say: make fly priv allow noclip by default. "disallow_fly_noclip = true" in minetest.conf disables noclip
09:34 Calinou      people with "server" privilege can always noclip, though
09:34 celeron55    PilzAdam's patch is not ready
09:34 dannydark    yeah won't that stop people using standard fly without noclip?
09:35 RealBadAngel when using the tool fly priv will have nothin to do with it
09:35 celeron55    it won't let a player fly if the player doesn't have fly AND noclip, and there is no fly mode with collisions
09:35 dannydark    yeah
09:35 RealBadAngel if your jetpack runs out of energy you gonna fall to the ground and dye
09:35 RealBadAngel die
09:36 RealBadAngel thats the idea
09:36 dannydark    another thing that might need changing is when using fly with collision, if you fly into blocks it will kill you....where it shouldn't unless your falling...
09:36 dannydark    at least that problem happened in 0.3
09:36 PilzAdam     celeron55, with my patch you can fly without noclip
09:37 RealBadAngel so its ready or not? :)
09:37 PilzAdam     you die if you fly down at the ground
09:37 PilzAdam     with superspeed
09:38 dannydark    yeah I don't think it should do that
09:38 dannydark    unless your falling
09:38 RealBadAngel i see it other way
09:38 RealBadAngel if it is a priv
09:38 dannydark    because you will also die if you fly into walls
09:38 RealBadAngel jetpack runnin out of energy will just disable it
09:39 dannydark    RealBadAngel: yeah I think thats right, because then you would be falling...so if your high your going to take damage ^_^ haha
09:39 RealBadAngel and player will find himself in walkin mode over the clouds
09:39 celeron55    "oh dog"
09:40 RealBadAngel hi the lake, hi grass
09:40 RealBadAngel *splash*
09:40 * dannydark  misses lake.... *splat*
09:41 RealBadAngel hehe
09:42 PilzAdam     were is the falling damage handled?
09:42 RealBadAngel on the ground? ;)
09:43 dannydark    localplayer.cpp
09:44 dannydark    line 296 (Report collisions)
09:44 RealBadAngel so ground level is line #296 ;)
09:44 dannydark    should just need an  && !free_move in the if statement
09:44 dannydark    or something like that
09:45 dannydark    PilzAdam: well line 296 with your patch
09:45 celeron55    uhm
09:45 celeron55    what are you doing
09:45 PilzAdam     it works
09:45 PilzAdam     Im messing arround with noclip
09:46 PilzAdam     ok, it doesnt work
09:46 celeron55    hmm, disabled collision damage for flying without noclip? well i guess that is reasonable
09:47 dannydark    PilzAdam: you still getting damaged?
09:48 PilzAdam     its a bit strange; the damage is delayed
09:48 dannydark    I'll run a compile now and have a look
09:49 PilzAdam     at the first collison the hearts dissapear and at the second one i die
09:52 dannydark    yeah same here will have a look at the code, I'm sure that in 0.3 I only had to amend that collision if statement although I guess much has changed since then ^_^ hehe
09:53 RealBadAngel celeron55, http://minetest.net/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=54671#p54671 together with some screenshots
09:54 dannydark    oh wait
09:54 dannydark    its because free_move is false
09:54 dannydark    as we don't have the noclip priv
09:55 PilzAdam     so g_settings->getBool("free_move")
09:55 dannydark    yeah that should work
09:56 PilzAdam     yep, it works
09:56 dannydark    hehe >_<
09:56 dannydark    yeah so I guess thats the noclip/fly split patch done
09:57 RealBadAngel is it able to set on/off from lua?
09:57 RealBadAngel hi Taoki
09:57 PilzAdam     with minetest.setting_set()
09:58 PilzAdam     updated patch: https://gist.github.com/4187946
09:59 celeron55    minetest.setting_set() changes server settings
10:00 PilzAdam     RealBadAngel, why do you need that?
10:01 RealBadAngel for jetpack
10:01 PilzAdam     why dont you use entities for that?
10:01 RealBadAngel need to be able to turn it on when user wears jetpack
10:01 RealBadAngel and off when puts it away or energy runs out
10:02 PilzAdam     attach the player to a Lua entity
10:02 celeron55    hmm, indeed, attach the player to an entity
10:02 RealBadAngel no way
10:02 dannydark    RealBadAngel: maybe this is useful: http://minetest.net/forum/viewtopic.php?id=3915
10:02 RealBadAngel theyre lagged as hell
10:02 celeron55    it's the right way
10:02 dannydark    I've not seen the code so not sure how he's done his jetpack but yeah might be useful
10:02 RealBadAngel thanks to the entities nothin based on them is not useful
10:03 RealBadAngel lasers shoots 20s after fireing
10:03 PilzAdam     depends on the server connection
10:03 RealBadAngel local
10:03 celeron55    if you could set client settings from the server, it would just annoy the player if he for example wants to have free move set for all the time and then switches through a jetpack in the inventory or so
10:04 RealBadAngel jetpack is meant for surrival servers
10:04 RealBadAngel its not a kind of priviledge
10:04 RealBadAngel like high end tool aviable after long days of playing and gathering resources
10:04 dannydark    will it have some sort of force pushing the player? erm...mmm not to sure how to explain it
10:05 RealBadAngel hmmm with entities used i think it could be possible
10:05 celeron55    free_move should be made to be sent from the server and saved to there though and not be a client setting
10:05 RealBadAngel celeron55, of course
10:05 celeron55    but i don't think there is any proper framework for such things
10:05 dannydark    basically so it feels more realistic with some sort of gravity rules applied to it rather than just feeling like free_move? because that would be awesome
10:06 RealBadAngel celeron55, im using prived stuff to turn on/off already
10:06 celeron55    it's wrong and wouldn't work in that case anyway
10:06 RealBadAngel see set daytime buttons in Unified Inventory
10:06 RealBadAngel its working
10:07 celeron55    ...
10:07 celeron55    i am sorry but i have to request you to not be an idiot once again
10:07 RealBadAngel im setting it on the server side
10:07 RealBadAngel not the client
10:08 RealBadAngel so please stop
10:08 RealBadAngel im using the commands like chat does
10:18 PilzAdam     celeron55, bug in water shaders: http://www.zimg.eu/i/1782686636 -> http://www.zimg.eu/i/4257623532
10:21 celeron55    known
10:29 RealBadAngel hmmm, stupid question, can entity emit light?
10:29 PilzAdam     currently not
10:29 RealBadAngel :(
12:06 Taoki        PilzAdam: Can you commit a small change for me please? I tested anaglyph stereo again, and 0.1 is too strong of a default. Can you please change anaglyph_strength = 0.1 to anaglyph_strength = 0.05 in minetest.conf.example?
12:06 Taoki        I also think there might be a default in the code that needs to be changed too
12:06 PilzAdam     yea, in defaultsettings.cpp
12:06 Taoki        right
12:06 Taoki        0.05 is good
12:07 PilzAdam     k, will do
12:07 Taoki        tx
12:08 thexyz       i guess that's too personal setting, other people were claiming 0.05 is too low
12:08 Taoki        PilzAdam: Also, can you merge this one commit from my branch? https://github.com/MirceaKitsune/minetest/commit/14409e115eced2f76670e7cc8f069a25d67c347f NOT the whole branch, I spoke with c55 and the server-side already prevents sending the same position,  but the client doesn't
12:09 Taoki        thexyz: I tried it again and it's too eye-straining to work
12:10 PilzAdam     people have to set this for themselves
12:10 PilzAdam     so maybe its not a good idea to change it every day in upstream
12:10 thexyz       http://minetest.net/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=11162#p11162 — your post
12:11 PilzAdam     just leave it as it is
12:12 Taoki        The current default won't work for many, it's too eye straining. But ok
12:12 thexyz       yep
12:12 thexyz       Taoki: we'd better ask people instead of making those conclusions
12:12 Taoki        makes sense
12:13 PilzAdam     Taoki, dunno about the commit you mentioned
12:13 Taoki        Also: Can someone confirm that for both players and lua entities, position is only updated from server to clients only when it changed? So if the object is still it doesn't waste andwidth still sending updates?
12:13 Taoki        PilzAdam: I tested it and it does no harm, or bugs I can think of. Just keeps the local player from wasting bandwidth for no reason
12:13 Taoki        Always a helpful thing
12:14 Taoki        Well, feel free to test it, but that commit is certainly fine. Would be surprised if any harm could come from that
12:16 PilzAdam     thexyz, what do you think?
12:17 Taoki        That branch also contained the same thing for client_sao, but c55 said that the server already knows to avoid sending the same position for still players. I'd like someone else to confirm though, since I can't find the code that does that except for ItemSAO
12:17 Taoki        Anyway, local player doesn't, and what's what the commit I linked is for
12:17 Taoki        **that's
12:17 Taoki        BRB, but feel free to answer as I'm only afk
12:20 thexyz       PilzAdam: have you tested it?
12:20 thexyz       seems fine as for me
12:24 PilzAdam     13:24:02: ERROR[main]: ClientEnvironment::addActiveObject(): id=1 type=e: SerializationError in initialize(): unsupported ObjectProperties version: init_data="\u0001[...]
12:24 PilzAdam     when i connect to minetest.ru:12345
12:25 PilzAdam     a randomly choosen 0.4.3 seems to work
12:25 thexyz       https://github.com/celeron55/minetest/pull/326
12:25 thexyz       PilzAdam: it's not up-to-date
12:26 PilzAdam     do you know any up-to -date 0.
12:26 PilzAdam     4.4-dev servers?
12:26 thexyz       there were some commits that fixed version incompatibility, i'll rebuild right now
12:26 PilzAdam     without Taoki's patch?
12:27 thexyz       why should i include it? it only affects client
12:27 thexyz       done
12:28 PilzAdam     I just want to test if it breaks something
12:28 thexyz       try to connect now
12:28 PilzAdam     already done
12:28 PilzAdam     no errors
12:28 celeron55    Taoki: about your commit: you should store the last values in LocalPlayer, not Player
12:29 celeron55    Taoki: and you should initialize them in the constructor
12:30 thexyz       whoa! bug
12:31 celeron55    i wonder if i should try cramming in the meta_set_nodedef branch too...
12:31 thexyz       http://i.imgur.com/DRnxl.png → http://i.imgur.com/r2o9W.png
12:32 celeron55    it's not a bug, it's a shortcut!
12:32 PilzAdam     celeron55, what would you do if you dont make it?
12:33 PilzAdam     bbl
12:39 Taoki        back. Will try to make those changes and re-create the branch
12:48 celeron55    oh dog
12:48 celeron55    i just started looking through the meta_set_nodedef branch
12:48 celeron55    this is really funky stuff
12:48 celeron55    didn't even remember what this contained
12:49 celeron55    this for example creates a fake full game environment for... ehm... something
12:54 celeron55    this pushes a fake node definition manager in a wrapped game definition to the mesh generator and creates fake node ids for the dynamic nodes
12:57 thexyz       celeron55: https://github.com/celeron55/minetest/pull/326
13:08 celeron55    database.h should be designed so that it doesn't depend on stuff like sqlite3.h
13:08 celeron55    (like headers generally)
13:09 celeron55    (yes, old code in minetest is baaaaaad)
13:10 celeron55    thexyz: see the sound stuff for an example of the current recommended way of making abstractions
13:11 celeron55    sound.{h,cpp}, sound_openal.{h,cpp}
13:11 thexyz       ok
13:24 Taoki        celeron55: Did your changes. https://github.com/MirceaKitsune/minetest/tree/localplayer_check_position
13:25 Taoki        https://github.com/MirceaKitsune/minetest/commit/ef3b53bac6722e0a2a132189d3e68e829fb9c049 Compared to how I did it the first time
13:25 Taoki        That's a new branch so no rebase needed
13:26 Taoki        Someone should test this on a server with >= 2 clients connected, just to be sure each sees position being updated, though it should be perfectly good
13:28 PilzAdam     Taoki, building; I will join minetest.ru:12345
13:28 Taoki        will try to connect there too
13:29 thexyz       celeron55: but pythonmodulo depends on sqlite3_int64
13:30 thexyz       hm, seems there's no difference between sqlite3_int64 and long long
13:31 celeron55    ehm
13:31 celeron55    what is pythonmodulo
13:31 thexyz       // modulo of a negative number does not work consistently in C
13:31 thexyz       static long long pythonmodulo(long long i, long long mod)
13:31 thexyz       it's used by Database::getIntegerAsBlock
13:32 celeron55    hmm
13:33 celeron55    well, it should be just a signed 64 bit number
13:34 celeron55    does irrlicht always define that
13:35 celeron55    apparently no
13:39 Taoki        PilzAdam: Forget about what I just said. It also sends pressed keys so it needs to be send for attachments too. So yes, feel free to merge that branch as is now
13:39 Taoki        https://github.com/MirceaKitsune/minetest/tree/localplayer_check_position
13:40 thexyz       well, they use this https://gist.github.com/4188724 in newer irrlicht version
13:41 celeron55    improvised from sqlite and existing stuff in minetest: https://gist.github.com/4188733
13:42 celeron55    should support MSVC and GCC, which suffices for us well
13:42 Taoki        celeron55, PilzAdam: So can that change go upstream? Just to be sure I don't need to do any other improvements
13:42 celeron55    and is a smallish change
13:43 PilzAdam     Taoki, as it seems to work fine its ok to me
13:44 Taoki        ok, switching back to master then :P
13:46 celeron55    there is a small change i want to make but i'll make it when i merge those
13:47 Taoki        I'm curious: Can shader sun allow fully smooth lighting transitions now? So when it's sunrise / sunset the light doesn't update itself into various steps. It would sound like this should make that possible
13:48 Taoki        Since shaders should allow each frame to check sun position and calculate brightness at that moment
13:50 celeron55    it's actually somewhat possible even without shaders, but once again it's like it is for sparing the crappiest hardware... i guess i'll do that too
13:52 Taoki        ok. In the code it would probably be expensive. But for shaders I'd assume you can do something like light = sun_position / 1000 each frame (assuming sun position ranges between 0 and 1000 and maximum light between 0 and 1)
13:52 Taoki        Since it doesn't need to update the voxel lightmaps I believe
13:53 celeron55    yeah it's basically equal to doing nothing
13:53 celeron55    the classic code updates the vertex colors based on a cached store of day/night brightness pairs for each vertex
13:53 celeron55    it's quite lightweight too, actually
13:54 Taoki        right, that's why it would be expensive. But shader light can do a tiny formula each frame that even the oldest GPU wouldn't be influenced by
14:11 thexyz       celeron55: i've updated pull request https://github.com/celeron55/minetest/pull/326
14:20 Taoki        Regarding what I last asked: I just tested if m_position_not_sent is set properly based on what the server gets from the client, and with my change m_position_not_sent doesn't become true if a player stands perfectly still and presses no keys. So this should have double the effect on bandsitch saving :)
14:20 Taoki        **bandwidth
14:21 Taoki        Well perfectly still players will use no bandwidth at all now, so yeah
14:21 Taoki        Hard to test for lua entities. For fropped items I already noticed a code which checks if position is greater than a given amount before sending... so I assume this is all that's needed
14:22 celeron55    thexyz: indentation seems to have problems; i'll look at it later
14:22 celeron55    too much to do already
14:23 Taoki        Although, I do have one curiosity: Does content_sao send the position of a player also to the player which sent the position to it? Or only to all clients which are not our specific player?
14:23 Taoki        Cuz then we still have a useless ping-pong there
14:24 celeron55    it sends but that doesn't matter; it's useful for debuggin too
14:24 celeron55    +g
14:24 Taoki        ok. If it does have an use then that's good.
14:24 Taoki        https://github.com/celeron55/minetest/pull/327
14:25 * PilzAdam   points to his player controls branch: https://github.com/PilzAdam/minetest/commits/controls
14:25 PilzAdam     just if someone is interested
14:26 Taoki        If we would optimize bandwidth to the max, I would be tempted to try fixing this as well, and forget about such debugging. But eh, perhaps another time if anything
14:33 Taoki        Actually, I wanna see if I can fix this... need to understand how ActiveObjectMessage works though, so I can add an ID filter or something
14:39 Taoki        Eh, some other time... the ActiveObjectMessage system makes this too hard
14:39 Taoki        Since you add a message to that it's hard to filter by ID who it's sent to and persist the initial player to know to avoid him
14:40 Taoki        So my last change on that branch is good to go as is :P
15:11 Taoki        Hmmmmm... an idea for the more distant future (perhaps) just popped to mind. What if we could make a server setting that could allow us to use custom block grids? When set to 1, you place blocks like you do currently, all at distance of one block. When 0.5 however, you can place blocks in between other blocks
15:12 Taoki        But this might require a major re-write of the engine. No idea there
15:12 Taoki        0.25 would allow you to place blocks 1/4 in any direction on other blocks, so on
15:12 Taoki        With values like 0.5 however, some servers could make this interesting
15:13 thexyz       celeron55: sorry for being totally unrelated, but http://minetest.net/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=54697#p54697
15:37 Taoki        Can https://github.com/celeron55/minetest/pull/327 be taken care of if everything is ok with it?
15:41 Calinou      looks good
15:41 Calinou      did you test if new player position is sent if player is teleported with a command?
15:41 Calinou      just to be sure :P
15:41 Calinou      should be, but we never know
15:41 Calinou      (use /teleport player1 player2)
15:46 Taoki        Calinou: It certainly is, but we can test that more if PilzAdam still has the server up and can login now
15:46 Taoki        I fall in a cave on his server either way, can't get out :P
15:47 PilzAdam     its not my server
15:47 Taoki        ok. Well if it has the latest code
15:47 Taoki        I'm in now
15:48 Calinou      now code player yaw smoothing, i tried doing it this morning and I failed again :D
16:03 celeron55    i herd u liek commits: https://github.com/celeron55/minetest/commit/804a7875a2018f3d8cb3fbe917c11ecc1666d25a
16:04 PilzAdam     :D
16:04 Taoki        :D
16:04 Taoki        will switch over and test that soon
16:09 VanessaE     testing that now.
16:09 PilzAdam     epic.
16:09 Taoki        updated and cimpiled, testing now
16:09 Taoki        indeed
16:10 PilzAdam     time_speed = 96000 -> disco
16:10 VanessaE     oh that's niiiice
16:10 VanessaE     night->day is nice and smooth now
16:11 VanessaE     mostly :-)
16:11 Taoki        yes, very nice!
16:11 celeron55    http://ompldr.org/vZ2phOQ
16:11 celeron55    my intense SHADER DEVELOPMENT THING.
16:11 VanessaE     light-emitting nodes look right again also
16:12 VanessaE     whoa, seriously intense :D
16:12 celeron55    it has multiple inches of screen space
16:12 celeron55    (less than my shader-incapable laptop at the right)
16:12 PilzAdam     time_speed = 9600 -> ~4 sec. day/night
16:13 Taoki        if it works, that's the important part
16:14 celeron55    well, it usually works
16:14 darkrose     now it just needs shadows that follow the sun
16:14 celeron55    the computer itself is a year old i3 but the display is a tad older
16:14 PilzAdam     dannydark, +water relections +wind in grass = MC mod
16:14 Taoki        torches look nice too :)
16:15 Taoki        If we keep going with commits like this, MineTest will soon be the best voxel-based space out there
16:15 VanessaE     PilzAdam: that begs the question, how *would* you make plantlike nodes wave in a breeze anyway?
16:15 darkrose     _animated
16:16 VanessaE     darkrose: no, I mean how would you make the model itself warp around like they do in MC
16:16 celeron55    that is probably laughably simple to do with a shader
16:16 Taoki        Hmmmmmm. Now I wonder if shaders can be used to do marching cubes as well :]
16:16 VanessaE     celeron55: I figured it would be.  maybe a group setting in a node that (assuming the node is plantlike) allows that shader to distort the node
16:16 VanessaE     groups = {bendy=1}  or something.
16:17 PilzAdam     does this water 0.2 nodes lower shader apply to all liquids? or just to water and lava?
16:17 Calinou      all liquids, normally
16:18 celeron55    now it applies to all liquids
16:18 Calinou      <VanessaE> night->day is nice and smooth now
16:18 Calinou      it was always smooth :P
16:18 Calinou      it's less smooth without shaders but it can be made more smooth with source code change
16:18 VanessaE     Calinou: if you count 14 steps of daylight as smooth :P
16:18 VanessaE     or however many there are
16:18 Calinou      just change the smoothing time to 10 seconds (or enough to make the transition look 100% smooth) > done
16:18 VanessaE     nevertheless, this is a nice improvement.
16:19 Calinou      shaders are very slow, I get below 60FPS if I start two instances of the game
16:19 Calinou      without I can start like 4-5 and have 60FPS
16:19 celeron55    buy more GPUs
16:19 Calinou      the light/water improvements could be backported to shader-less mode, no?
16:19 Calinou      (new_style_water worked before 0.4 ;))
16:19 celeron55    too difficult, and you can't brighten things further with vertex colors
16:20 Taoki        Calinou: I never seen a performance decrease with shaders
16:20 thexyz       https://github.com/celeron55/minetest/pull/330
16:20 * PilzAdam   neither
16:21 VanessaE     here's an interesting one, I don't know how old this is because I never noticed it before:  lava disappears behind water now, but objects behind that lava are still visible.
16:21 RealBadAngel thexyz: what if it drops more items of the kind?
16:21 VanessaE     http://digitalaudioconcepts.com/vanessa/hobbies/minetest/screenshots/screenshot_1550605553.png
16:22 thexyz       RealBadAngel: umm?
16:22 VanessaE     behind the cursor is three or four lava columns and those glass blocks.
16:22 thexyz       it was returning list of strings in one case and list of ItemStack's in other
16:22 thexyz       and api.txt says it returns list of strings
16:22 RealBadAngel ah ok
16:53 thexyz       PilzAdam: https://github.com/celeron55/minetest/pull/330
16:56 PilzAdam     looks ok to me
16:57 VanessaE     wtf!? http://minetest.net/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=54680#p54680
16:57 VanessaE     oops, wrong channel.
17:11 celeron55    thexyz: to spare my effort, could you tell how the database wrapper and leveldb code has been tested so far?
17:12 celeron55    i'm too tired to actually look at it 8)
17:12 thexyz       OldCoder was using leveldb on his server for long time, no problems were found
17:12 thexyz       well, the only problem is that it doesn't compile on windows (that's why there is ENABLE_LEVELDB setting)
17:13 celeron55    how does the design work for possible future improvements and modifications
17:13 celeron55    like starting to use sqlite to store more columns for faster access of some things without loading/saving everything
17:15 thexyz       backend only defines beginSave, endSave, saveBlock, loadBlock and listAllLoadableBlocks
17:15 RealBadAngel leveldb is used on ALL oldcoders servers
17:16 RealBadAngel and its because sqlite corrupted all the worlds
17:16 celeron55    so if i add saveTimestamp and loadTimestamp, who is going to implement them for leveldb?
17:16 RealBadAngel so the migration was forced
17:17 RealBadAngel leveldb is tested on oldcoders server for more than a month
17:17 RealBadAngel no problems reported
17:17 celeron55    dual backend at least doubles work, it might not be viable for a project of this size
17:18 RealBadAngel in fact it allows to play without server corruption
17:18 celeron55    i have never had any corruption on my servers that i have ran some months ago for months
17:18 RealBadAngel all bigger servers were affected with it, when worlds started to regenerate
17:18 thexyz       well, leveldb backend may exist as non-upstream patch too
17:18 VanessaE     celeron55: did your maps exceed 4GB?
17:19 celeron55    nope
17:19 RealBadAngel you wont get the problem then
17:19 celeron55    but that shouldn't be any kind of a limit to sqlite
17:19 RealBadAngel there is
17:19 celeron55    there are limits but they are thousands of times more
17:19 RealBadAngel and worlds starts to regenerate
17:19 RealBadAngel destroyin all players made stuff
17:20 RealBadAngel thats why leveldb migration was forced
17:20 thexyz       then how about just implementing that backend thing without actually adding leveldb to main repo?
17:20 celeron55    thexyz: i could take in the db abstraction and leave leveldb for later
17:20 thexyz       that'd be fine
17:21 RealBadAngel pity, folks wont be able to play on their servers with latest features
17:21 celeron55    how is the backend selected?
17:21 VanessaE     celeron55: some people have reported 4GB limits in sqlite outside of the MT community.  From the SQLite home page, "The policy was that if it would fit in memory and you could count it with a 32-bit integer, then it should work."
17:21 thexyz       celeron55: i've added setting to world.mt
17:21 thexyz       then there's simple if statement which chooses backend depending on its name
17:22 celeron55    so you start a leveldb world by creating the directory and adding world.mt with the backend, and then telling minetest to use the world?
17:22 thexyz       or by just migrating sqlite one
17:22 celeron55    how does that work
17:23 RealBadAngel we already do have HUGE leveldb worlds
17:23 RealBadAngel on like 20 servers
17:23 thexyz       it lists all blocks using current backend (like sqlite) and writes them to another one (leveldb in that case)
17:23 thexyz       command line is ./bin/minetestserver --worldname world --migrate leveldb
17:24 dannydark    <PilzAdam> dannydark, +water relections +wind in grass = MC mod - huh?
17:25 PilzAdam     https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHHxUzp29HA
17:26 RealBadAngel ive seen a video of another voxel game
17:26 RealBadAngel with way better shaders
17:26 dannydark    Oh yeah I've seen that, just didn't get why I was highlighted? haha
17:27 RealBadAngel tryin to recall its name, it is still WIP
17:27 PilzAdam     oh, it was darkrose
17:27 PilzAdam     sry
17:27 dannydark    hehe no worries ^_^
17:28 PilzAdam     btw: BF3 FTW
17:28 RealBadAngel got the name its Terasology
17:29 dannydark    Yeah ^_^ can't get enough of it recently...just waiting for Tuesday for the new dlc :D
17:29 thexyz       guys, can you discuss that somewhere else?
17:30 OldCoder     Hello. I was invited by RealBadAngel.
17:31 RealBadAngel celeron55, oldcoder can tell you bout problems with sqlite on his servers
17:31 RealBadAngel and leveldb migration
17:31 celeron55    i don't need to hear more
17:32 celeron55    i'm going to ask thexyz more questions and you two better be quiet
17:32 OldCoder     One question only if I may...
17:32 hmmmm        http://ompldr.org/vZ2piOQ/screenshot_1554513921.png
17:32 hmmmm        progress lel
17:32 Calinou      dat minimal game
17:32 OldCoder     As I have just arrived. Have decisions about upstream merges been delegated to three people? If so what do they say?
17:33 celeron55    i take care of the big ones
17:33 OldCoder     All right
17:33 OldCoder     It's good to see you're involved
17:33 OldCoder     I take it there's some controversy. Very well.
17:34 celeron55    ...i've been coding minetest 24/7 (minus sleep) for the whole week
17:34 celeron55    (and minus work)
17:34 OldCoder     Rest
17:34 OldCoder     Why do this?
17:34 celeron55    why not
17:34 OldCoder     Then it is your decision
17:35 celeron55    i know how to not burn out; i was just pointing out your wrongness in my non-involvement
17:35 OldCoder     Who is "your" ? Debate should be technical. celeron55 is involved.
17:35 celeron55    anyway, let's stop this crap
17:35 celeron55    ---
17:35 hmmmm        it's certainly not engine development discussion
17:36 celeron55    thexyz: has somebody used that database backend wrapper with sqlite for extended lengths of time?
17:36 hmmmm        he just said so
17:36 celeron55    also, has it been tested with super-ancient worlds (the sectors format) or was it dropped?
17:37 celeron55    i see some related code but code doesn't say much about that, it's likely to not work if it hasn't been tested
17:38 thexyz       don't know about sqlite, i personally wasn't using it with that patch; it shouldn't break anything though as it's just redesign without changing sqlite-related code
17:38 thexyz       and i haven't tested sectors at all
17:39 thexyz       because i don't have any worlds which use sectors
17:39 celeron55    the sectors support should probably be dropped, as there is the conversion tool for that
17:39 celeron55    and it works badly anyway (at least in current c55/master)
17:40 celeron55    mainly because there are some miscellaneous other incompatibilities with that old data
17:40 celeron55    there shouldn't be, but many have slipped in
17:41 hmmmm        indeed, there are many opportunities for cleaning up minetest... with farmesh removed, old map support, cleaned up lighting et al. i bet the code base can be shrunken by 2kloc
17:44 celeron55    thexyz: i'm leaving this on it's whole out from 0.4.4, but it will be handled in the near future by doing testing and then merging the abstraction part upstream
17:45 celeron55    we need to be *very* sure the sqlite part isn't going to do anything bad
17:45 thexyz       ok
17:46 OldCoder     Could the SQLite3 part be dropped except for import/export?
17:46 celeron55    and an another thing is to structure the code of handling multiple backends so that it's unlikely to cause merge conflicts when server admins apply leveldb support to any version
17:47 celeron55    OldCoder: at least not anytime soon
17:47 OldCoder     rubenwardy, Hi
17:48 rubenwardy   hi
17:50 celeron55    sqlite has the huge benefit of being widely available for external tools made in any language
17:51 RealBadAngel what about the fact it also corrupt worlds?
17:52 celeron55    singleplayer worlds never grow so large and admins of huge servers know what they are doing
17:53 Calinou      admins of huge servers don't put world limiting mods, rarely (and anyway, cheating lets you go through these walls)
17:53 Calinou      ask redcrab/ghostshell
17:54 celeron55    i am not saying leveldb would never be used upstream, but i am not confident in doing that now
17:54 RealBadAngel redcrab also suffered that issue
17:54 celeron55    i haven't even searched any other alternatives yet
17:57 OldCoder     Decision seems to be made. I'll note for future though (a) 4GB limit is gone (b) Faster storage (c) Supports import and export (d) Less corruption. As an operator of 18 worlds including some approaching 0.5GB I am pleased.
17:58 OldCoder     thexyz, thank you again for this marvelous work.\
17:58 OldCoder     The \ was a typo
17:59 OldCoder     celeron55, another technical question. Simple one. Could not this feature be present as optional? Then everybody might be satisfied.
18:00 celeron55    19:18:24 < celeron55> dual backend at least doubles work, it might not be viable for a project of  this size
18:01 celeron55    i don't want to have anything upstream that won't be always up to date
18:01 OldCoder     Very well
18:01 celeron55    i am committed to keeping sqlite up and running until i decide otherwise, and i don't want to double my work
18:02 OldCoder     All right. Good luck. thexyz branch will remain my standard. There can be no going back to SQLite3. We will feed patches upstream when possible. And merge some downstream too. The software is hereby forked.
18:03 celeron55    well, i'm going to make sure it's easy to apply the leveldb branch to any version (after the abstraction layer is merged)
18:03 OldCoder     Good. celeron55 call on me if you need assistance. I trust you are enjoying the work despite exhaustion.
18:04 celeron55    has anyone been testing the db layer with this? https://github.com/celeron55/minetest-worldtest/
18:04 OldCoder     R
18:04 celeron55    that could possibly be extended to support testing of backend migrations
18:05 celeron55    try running it 8)
18:05 celeron55    it's fun to watch
18:06 celeron55    it'll test compatibility between various versions from 0.3.1 to 0.4.3
18:06 OldCoder     Later perhaps. Time has barely permitted maintaining the existing worlds. They are an interesting test in and of themselves. I have Calinou World, Zegaton, Harbor, and even LM Creative.
18:06 OldCoder     All seem to work perfectly relative to database format.
18:06 OldCoder     I asked Ghostshell for Gameboom world. He did not answer and now that world is gone again :-(
18:07 OldCoder     I presume the discussion here is done
18:07 celeron55    the current sqlite support was coded by some guy related to gameboom because the sectors format didn't scale up to their server needs 8)
18:07 OldCoder     Heh. They have hit the limits. And then some.
18:08 celeron55    that's a long ago... more than a year
18:08 OldCoder     In Internet time it is millenia
18:08 celeron55    more like year and a half, actually
18:08 OldCoder     Billenia then :p
18:09 Calinou      september 2011, 1.25 year :p
18:09 hmmmm        arhg
18:09 hmmmm        all of my mapgen's problems were either directly or indirectly related to the damn VoxelArea's buffer zone
18:10 celeron55    wut?
18:10 hmmmm        things are working much better
18:10 hmmmm        now it's time to work on the lua stuff
18:29 Taoki        Any chance for minecarts to make it in 0.4.4?
18:29 PilzAdam     they are too buggy
18:29 Taoki        I tested them on many servers. The basic idea would be that currently, they work well, only that at some corners they suddenly stop and throw you out for no reason. It also seems that if the server is gagging you get stuck in them until you re-log yourself
18:29 Taoki        ok
18:30 Taoki        **lagging
18:34 Taoki        Damn. Since today the client keeps closing itself on any server I go after some time
18:35 Taoki        Hope it's not one of those segmentation things again. Happened all day today >_>
18:35 Taoki        and now again
18:48 celeron55    http://pastebin.com/4WyUFK0k
18:48 celeron55    hmm...
18:49 PilzAdam     farwasteland?
18:49 darkrose     someone has a branch fetish
18:50 celeron55    i leave them hanging around just in case, and then forget which of them are deleteable and which are not
18:51 celeron55    PilzAdam: it was a test to generate some kind of wasteland to far places
18:52 Taoki        I wonder if torches and light-emmittnig blocks can specify the intensity / distance of lights. Though I assume not...
18:52 celeron55    it was actually quite cool, but dunno; people wouldn't generally like it
18:53 dannydark    any screenshots? ^_^
18:53 celeron55    Taoki: they can, but torches are almost as bright as it allows
18:53 Taoki        oh, ok. Good to know
18:54 Taoki        BTW. If anyone wants you can join VanessaE's server. I'm curious to see what the improvement on bandwidth is since that change with idle players
18:54 Taoki        At an average
18:54 OldCoder     Is there an idle players patch I should merge?
18:54 Taoki        OldCoder: No, it's been merged
18:55 Taoki        OldCoder: I made a patch so players who stand still don't send any position updatee packets to the server, and in turn the server doesn't sent position updates to other clients
18:55 celeron55    dannydark: i seem to have two: http://c55.me/random/2012-04/screenshot_2198089407.png http://c55.me/random/2012-04/screenshot_2116280199.png
18:56 OldCoder     Taoki, I don't have upstream. Could you PM me the patch link?
18:56 VanessaE     celeron55: I'm curious if the performance is better for you on my server also
18:56 celeron55    can't test now
18:56 celeron55    crappy connection that doesn't even pass udp through
18:56 Taoki        OldCoder: It's a modified GIT branch. Sadly it's hard if you aren't keeping up with latest upstream
18:56 Taoki        ok
18:57 OldCoder     All right ty
18:57 VanessaE     ok.  Whenever you are ready to, it will be up.  24.181.193.82 port 30000.
18:57 celeron55    (yes, my adsl is once again broken... it has a tendency to break on friday evenings)
18:57 dannydark    celeron55: don't seem to be loading for me at the moment :( just timing out will try to have another look later ^_^
18:58 celeron55    oh
18:58 celeron55    you're right
18:58 celeron55    it's on this side of the broken adsl
18:58 celeron55    well whatever...
18:59 dannydark    ah makes sense, well I've pinned them so will try again at some other time. just intrested to see what it looked like as I quite like the idea of wasteland type area
18:59 celeron55    i guess i'll upload somewhere then
19:00 dannydark    don't worry too much about it I don't mind looking again later when you're adsl is playin nice
19:00 dannydark    +g
19:01 celeron55    http://misc.minetest.net/farwasteland_1.png
19:05 Taoki        looks nice
19:05 Taoki        BTW... what about farming mod? That's beenr eady for sooooooo long too
19:06 PilzAdam     Im waiting for RealBadAngel to finish the textures
19:06 Taoki        oh, righty then
19:07 dannydark    nice ^_^ the lava looks a tad out of place but I reckon thats just a texture thing, it would be nice to see this make it back into the mapgen at some point ^_^
19:12 celeron55    dunno; i guess we'll get something like that as a mod if and hopefully when it gets some modding support
19:12 * celeron55  points at hmmmm
19:12 celeron55    ehm
19:12 celeron55    s/it/mapgen/
19:12 Taoki        BTW, a problem I wanted to point out for some days (not sure if it's really a problem). Why are we still using 2 nodes for doors? I saw doors in custom nodes which are made of only one node, only that the nodebox / collision size extends to 2 blocks. Only one entity, one collosion box, etc
19:12 Taoki        I'd find it better in all ways for all doors to be like that
19:13 PilzAdam     it causes some textures bugs
19:14 Taoki        ahh, ok
19:14 Taoki        VanessaE: poke. It's 4 players on the server now... what's average bandwidth?
19:23 Taoki        celeron55: BTW. The same way top surfaces of blocks are brightened, shouldn't bottom surfaces be darkened? Would look even nicer for eg: Cave ceilings
19:24 Taoki        So sides = unmodifies, top = brighter (like shaders do now), but bottom = darker (by the same amount top is brighter)
19:45 VanessaE     Taoki: about 15 kB/sec
19:45 VanessaE     but people are moving around doing stuff
19:45 Taoki        VanessaE: Ok. Weird since it shouldn't be using that much
19:45 hmmmm        farwasteland?
19:45 Taoki        More like 1kbps from what I know
19:46 VanessaE     I'm not sure how much of that is the server and how much is coming from routine network access on my box and on abe's
19:46 hmmmm        what's that, screwed up map past coordinates 4096?
19:46 VanessaE     brb
19:47 VanessaE     ok.
19:49 Taoki        VanessaE: Ah... if it's your total machine bandwidth it's likely other things too
19:49 VanessaE     ok, got nethogs running.
19:50 Taoki        you'd need to know how much minetestserver is using specificallyt
19:51 VanessaE     heh, it's so low it isn't even showing up in the list.
19:53 Taoki        might even be under 1kbps
19:55 VanessaE     bah, nethogs only shows tcp, not udp.
20:00 VanessaE     there we go, let's see how iptraf works.
20:03 VanessaE     Taoki: sign off, clear your cache, sign back on
20:04 VanessaE     I wanna make sure this tool is actually reporting on UDP:30000
20:13 VanessaE     strange.. is the server using any port other than 30000?
20:50 Taoki        VanessaE: back. Still need me to do that?
20:51 VanessaE     no
20:51 VanessaE     RBA did but I didn't see anything in iptraf that looked like it was coming from MT
20:51 VanessaE     (yet he says it transferred at a reasonable speed this time).
20:52 VanessaE     does MT use any other port besides 30000 (or whatever)?
21:05 Taoki        Just had another idea: Could clients store a permanent cache (up to a certain size limit) of the world on each server? So that when they connect to a server again they don't have to receive all of the chunks? Maybe just the changes after that... not sure if this would work out at all
21:16 jin_xi       hm so when shaders are used item images of nodeboxes look alright, but in-game they look flat
21:31 Taoki        VanessaE: Suddenly, your server is extremely slow to login to again
21:32 VanessaE     weird, I'm not even on it right now, but I am doing some testing in another MT instance, trying to debug something unrelated.
21:33 VanessaE     (and my tests are hogging CPU pretty badly, but I expected it)
21:39 celeron55    oh interesting... i happened to get the editbox segfault while using a debug build of irrlicht with core dumps enabled
21:43 celeron55    https://raw.github.com/gist/4191188/1fc5b2ae84412a9ae449d6d0dcf9412486c428d4/gistfile1.txt
21:43 celeron55    looks useless to me, but in case somebody is interested
21:53 Taoki        https://github.com/celeron55/minetest/pull/333
21:59 celeron55    dim bottom suits less lighting situations than just a bright top
22:00 celeron55    also you're checking three too many variables, you could just check for y < -0.5
22:02 Taoki        celeron55: Just pulled latest master and noticed you already changed some things there, so I guess that would no longer make sense now. If you think darker bottom works too you can probably add it in... I think it looks a lot better but that depends
22:02 celeron55    i guess i'll try it some day
22:03 Taoki        Well it's just one line of code, so it can be tried in 2 minutes :P
22:03 celeron55    i modified that part a bit to make it do the multiplication in linear-ish color space; it is the "right" thing to do
22:03 Taoki        yeah, that sounds correct
22:04 celeron55    otherwise it's sRGB the gamma of which makes multiplied colors screwed
22:04 celeron55    you see that way screwed colors everywhere but it doesn't make it less wrong
22:05 celeron55    even in minetest 8)
22:05 Taoki        I noticed some blocks appeared overly whitened
22:05 celeron55    it's the lazy thing to do
22:06 celeron55    they do that probably because i added an exposure function in the shader; it allows bright things to still have their detail visible
22:06 celeron55    it kind of lessens colors while doing it at the bright end
22:06 Taoki        Ahh... I forgot to take any screenshots >.< But I can say bottomside darkness looks a lot better too.
22:06 Taoki        Also,
22:07 Taoki        I'd suggest making water 1 or 2 pixels lower. 3 seems a bit too much to me
22:08 celeron55    i like it as is
22:08 celeron55    if you want to change it, you'll have to collect votes 8)
22:08 Taoki        ok
22:08 celeron55    i'll probably reimplement it in C++ when i'm less lazy though; it doesn't make much sense in a shader
22:09 Taoki        Yeah... this one is simple enough to do there
22:10 Taoki        I wanna see if I can find some free post-processing code and add it in. But I'm not sure yet how you call shaders properly from the MineTest code
22:10 Taoki        I should be able to adapt such shaders if I find any though, and make a setting for each
22:10 Taoki        My main focuses are bloom, motion blur, depth of field, reflective / refractive water. I know some won't like this, but some will... so each should have a menu setting and everyone is happy then :P
22:11 Taoki        Just wonder if I can find any free code for Irrlicht shaders of this type