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IRC log for #minetest, 2018-01-12

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All times shown according to UTC.

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03:30 thePalindrome Is there a better way to change the visible formspec? calling a formspec from an exit button makes minetest to sometimes not opening the new formspec
03:32 Cornelia thePalindrome: instead of calling the FormSpec, start a 'minetest.after'
03:33 Cornelia For.. like.. 0.125 seconds
03:33 Cornelia Should be enough CPU cycles to avoid any silliness
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03:34 thePalindrome alright, I'll try that then
03:37 thePalindrome As a semi-related thing, how popular do you think a mod could be that has performance issues for android?
03:37 rubenwardy most Android players play on servers
03:37 rubenwardy I'd imagine
03:37 rubenwardy or singleplayer without mods
03:38 thePalindrome because I'm building a massive steam factory mod, and I'm a bit concerned about performance
03:38 rubenwardy so the performance issues would be related to network - sending lots of map blocks
03:38 rubenwardy and large texture
03:38 rubenwardy yeah, a steam factory mod would probably have lots of node updates
03:38 rubenwardy and particles
03:38 rubenwardy I think it would still be popular though
03:39 rubenwardy technic is popular
03:39 thePalindrome I'd be looking for feedback, but I consider it too in-dev to really showcase aside from some technical parlour tricks
03:41 thePalindrome and for my reference again, how can I read <userdata>?
03:41 rubenwardy depends on the userdata
03:41 rubenwardy userdata could be one of multiple things
03:41 thePalindrome I mean for debugging
03:41 thePalindrome your book doesn't mention it anywhere ;p
03:41 thePalindrome dump() just says <userdata>
03:42 rubenwardy do you know the type of userdata?
03:42 rubenwardy if so, you can use the presence of methods and variables
03:42 rubenwardy err
03:42 rubenwardy if so, you can just print out things that interest you
03:42 thePalindrome In this case I was trying to test an InvRef, but sometimes I'm not certain exactly what I'm getting
03:43 rubenwardy if not, you can use the presence of methods and variable
03:43 rubenwardy so a ref is an inv if it has  get_lists
03:43 rubenwardy so   if inv.get_lists then  print
03:43 thePalindrome get_lists wwas giving me <userdata>
03:43 rubenwardy so   if inv.get_lists then  print(dump(inv:to_table()))    end
03:43 rubenwardy if it's always going to be an InvRef, you can remove the if
03:43 thePalindrome ah, wasn't sure that it had to_table
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03:44 rubenwardy anyway, gtg
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05:56 MinetestBot [git] paramat -> minetest/minetest: Lua_api.txt: Fix, improve and add to Object Properties documentation 62872da https://git.io/vNsFe (2018-01-12T05:51:40Z)
05:56 MinetestBot [git] paramat -> minetest/minetest: Lua_api.txt: Improve and complete ABM documentation 05e9e12 https://git.io/vNsFv (2018-01-12T05:45:39Z)
05:56 MinetestBot [git] paramat -> minetest/minetest: Settingtypes.txt: Correct value of 'max block send distance' b8fc6a1 https://git.io/vNsFf (2018-01-12T05:45:39Z)
05:56 MinetestBot [git] numberZero -> minetest/minetest: Fix ambient occlusion and dark lines at mapblock borders b4df0d6 https://git.io/vNsFJ (2018-01-12T05:44:11Z)
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07:39 MinetestBot [git] nerzhul -> minetest/minetest: Forget to fix non freetype build in StaticText 6f2fe8a https://git.io/vNsxs (2018-01-12T07:36:38Z)
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08:25 yusf Why is lua_api.txt written in Markdown for the first half, then not?
08:26 jluc yusf, it's waiting for you to fix it !
08:31 yusf jluc: Thinking about it, yes…
08:33 yusf Not interested in having work rejected by some dev who likes it the way it is though, hence the question.
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09:49 yusf With accurate Markdown one could then imagine it being put into https://github.com/lord/slate or some other static doc generator.
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10:06 pgimeno_ yusf: I copy-pasted the document here to be able to see the markup: https://gist.github.com/pgimeno/​8fa385ff4dd6dc9686024586ffc634fe - not sure what you mean by the second half not being written in markdown
10:07 pgimeno_ I can't see any transition
10:17 yusf I mean these parts: https://i.imgur.com/TfG2QXP.png
10:17 yusf pgimeno_
10:19 yusf They are technically written i Markdown in that Markdown is able to parse all of it as code snippets, but it has very low legibility compared to other parts of the doc.
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10:24 pgimeno_ hm, I see pros an cons. As a pro, you can copy/paste the definition as a starting point. As a con, they indeed reduce legibility. I don't see how to improve that without losing the ability to copy/paste.
10:24 pgimeno_ Also, it seems to me that that format is used by tables that can be user-written, while a textual format is used to describe userdata objects.
10:25 pgimeno_ It makes the distinction between both clearer.
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10:39 pgimeno_ can anyone please explain, or give any links to, in what sense are node timers preferable to ABMs?
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10:42 t20kdc pgimeno_: ABMs require the engine to search through the areas they affect, while node timers are attached to the nodes they affect (so could affect perf). Node timers can be set up to, say, keep a lamp on for 5 seconds starting from when said lamp is punched - an ABM set for every 5 seconds is set for a global 'every 5 seconds', not one particular to that lamp's timing.
10:44 pgimeno_ t20kdc: thank you. So I guess they are not generic replacements for ABMS, but more like another mechanism to which some ABMs can be converted and some can't. Is that right?
10:45 t20kdc Kind of, though in practice if something is using an ABM it is using it for a reason, and if something is using a node timer, it is using it for a reason.
10:46 pgimeno_ t20kdc: yeah, it's just that I've seen several times that something was converted from ABMs to node timers for performance reasons.
10:46 pgimeno_ That's what made me wonder.
10:46 t20kdc That would be because of the whole "searching" part.
10:47 t20kdc Using ABMs on anything too rare is a waste.
10:47 pgimeno_ with that understanding, now I guess that that's probably because an ABM was not the right tool for a job that would be more suitable to node timers, should they have been available at the time the code was written
10:47 pgimeno_ thanks!
10:48 t20kdc ...last I checked, node timers weren't a relatively recent feature, so I do wonder how old that code you refer to is.
10:49 pgimeno_ I'm thinking furnaces, leaf decay... those things
10:50 t20kdc I'd have thought leaf decay would have stayed...
10:52 pgimeno_ https://github.com/minetest​/minetest_game/issues/1545
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12:06 shangul anyway to place a block when no block is around?
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12:43 yusf I wonder if it's a feature or a bug that mod sounds loaded after "default" sounds with the same name are not overwriting the default counterpart (but instead added as just another alternate sound)??
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12:58 danSNDBX_ hi
12:58 danSNDBX_ o wow, i didnt expect so many people in irc :)!
12:59 sfan5 beware, most are just idling here
13:00 danSNDBX_ true
13:01 danSNDBX_ still, i wonder how big the community actually is
13:10 danSNDBX_ i started a minetest YT channel :)
13:12 danSNDBX_ Here is my first vid: https://youtu.be/YGWQMr1PrLU
13:12 danSNDBX_ Please give me some feedback
13:13 sfan5 !title
13:13 MinetestBot sfan5: How To Build A Very Small House (In A Tree) - YouTube
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13:16 danSNDBX_ how does this MinetestBot work?
13:17 shangul MinetestBot, ping
13:18 shangul MinetestBot, hi
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13:24 srifqi Hi MinetestBot
13:24 MinetestBot Hi srifqi.
13:25 danSNDBX_ joined #minetest
13:25 srifqi Hi danSNDBX_ !
13:26 danSNDBX_ hi srifqi :)!
13:26 srifqi Try to say hi to MinetestBot.
13:27 danSNDBX_ hi MinetestBot
13:27 MinetestBot Hey danSNDBX_.
13:27 danSNDBX_ haha
13:27 srifqi :D
13:29 srifqi danSNDBX_: how did you record your gameplay for your YouTube video?
13:30 danSNDBX_ I just Open Broadcast Software (OBS)
13:31 danSNDBX_ It is used for streaming, but also able to just record your screen
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13:32 danSNDBX test
13:34 srifqi :O
13:34 danSNDBX ?
13:37 srifqi nvm
13:39 srifqi Just watched your video. I feel mouse movement is a little bit laggy. ._.
13:40 danSNDBX yeah, makeing a vid from screen is hard for CPU
13:40 danSNDBX i tried to reduce it as much as possible
13:40 danSNDBX do you think it is still helpfull/watchable?
13:41 srifqi I've ever watched a video about building a small 3x3x9 house underground. But inside a jungle tree? Just now.
13:42 srifqi Yes, it's still watchable and you explain clearly.
13:44 danSNDBX haha, cool :) - i think the 2x2 jungle tree house is nothing special, but i wanted to try somethin simple for the first vid.
13:49 danSNDBX and i think it is hard to find a minetest audience on YT
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14:04 danSNDBX hi compunerd
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14:19 danSNDBX hi krock
14:20 Krock hi danSNDBX-who-I-have-never-seen-here-before
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14:24 danSNDBX yeah i am new
14:24 danSNDBX playing mindtest for a few weeks and just figgured out to join this channel :D
14:26 serp hello danSNDBX
14:26 danSNDBX hi serp :)!
14:27 danSNDBX how are u?
14:33 serp work making me work.. how bout you?
14:37 danSNDBX i am ill :( spending the first days of the year in bed.
14:37 MinetestBot [git] nerzhul -> minetest/minetest: Add a build step to test non freetype builds (#6908) 7e50529 https://git.io/vNGoa (2018-01-12T14:36:54Z)
14:37 danSNDBX i used time for creating a MT YouTube Channel :D
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14:39 adfeno Hi all! ;)
14:39 adfeno Is anyone using treecapitator mod in valleys mapgen?
14:40 Krock it doesn't matter in what mapgen you're using it
14:41 Krock danSNDBX, please. * Minetest
14:42 danSNDBX * Mindtest
14:43 shangul anyone who is playing on Telesight's Hide and Seek?
14:43 Krock https://i.imgur.com/2yWhwN9.png
14:44 Krock ^ danSNDBX
14:44 adfeno Krock: Oh, OK. I think I found a partial way to support jungletrees
14:44 adfeno Although I still can't make sense on how the tree registry works.
14:45 adfeno I tested some values and those seeem to work best.
14:45 Krock adfeno, many people could help you once there's a source link and a half way usable API for the mod :)
14:45 adfeno I'm also now testing in v7 mapgen.
14:45 adfeno https://github.com/HybridDog/treecapitator
14:46 danSNDBX haha, now i get it Krock xD Sorry for misspelling :D
14:46 adfeno Also, if you wish, I can pass a patch to you.
14:47 adfeno ... to test the changes.
14:48 Krock adfeno, there's a helpful notice about the API in https://github.com/HybridDog/tre​ecapitator/blob/master/trees.lua
14:48 Krock otherwise you can simply copy a similar looking tree's registration and adjust the stem and leaf node name
14:49 adfeno Yep, that's what I'm doing, although I got lost with range* parameters, and their description.
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15:07 adfeno Krock: Well, I'm getting there (that is: almost getting jungletrees support usable) however it seems that it always leaves 3 or 4 blocks of height on the top, specially for th most crowded groups of jungletrees. The lone ones are cut nicely.
15:10 adfeno I have this (all enabled): (1) trees = {"default:jungletree"}, leaves = {"default:jungleleaves"}, fruits = {"default:jungletree"}, range = 4, range_up = 11, range_down = 3, trunk_fruit_vertical = true, cutting_leaves = 5, stem_height_min = 12,
15:11 Krock hmm.. seems correct
15:11 adfeno (2) The same as (1), but stem_type = "2x2". In all cases (both for (1) and (2)) the map has only default mods of Minetest 0.4.16 and treecapitator.
15:14 adfeno If jungleetrees are in a radius of 2 blocks from each other, the mod works, but leaves around 3-4 blocks of the top untouched --- if not more.
15:15 adfeno (it would be seen as the neighboring jungle trees would be holding the trunks of those which were removed... very funny and strange)
15:18 adfeno Krock: Correction: the jungletrees *out* of the radius seem to hold the lone trunks and leaves.
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15:23 adfeno Found a better setting: range_up = 14 for both cases
15:26 shangul Telesight, I was talking
15:26 shangul Telesight, for example a deep lake which has underwater caves could be so hard for it to find
15:26 shangul Telesight, or a maze
15:27 Telesight I am in the game ;-)
15:28 shangul Telesight, Also a lava pool
15:28 shangul if it fall there, he/she will lose
15:29 shangul Telesight, I think I have judged early!
15:30 Telesight Yes I know ;-)
15:30 adfeno Krock: OK, at least the partial support seems good to me. I'll send a patch to treecapitator project.
15:32 shangul Telesight, but not the "small area" part
15:32 shangul I have to see 10p
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15:58 Astrobe Hello. In a lua script, how do I test for the "jump" bit in the value returned by get_player_control_bits()?
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16:09 Krock Astrobe, in C that would be get_player_control_bits() & (1 << 4). (1 << 4) is 0x10. so: math.floor(get_player_control_bits() / 0x10) == 1
16:11 Krock However, you should try to use get_player_control(), as it's much handier than reading the bits
16:12 Astrobe thanks. Minetest uses Lua 5.1 which doesn't have bit32 or bitwise operators, so I was looking for a helper function
16:13 yusf Quick question: How is this server achieving this? ("players can't see far away names") https://i.imgur.com/7uGYWia.png
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16:13 rubenwardy yusf, player send distance setting
16:13 rubenwardy forget the exact name
16:14 Krock https://github.com/minetest/minetest/b​lob/master/minetest.conf.example#L1161
16:14 Krock ^ yusf
16:14 yusf Thanks a bunch rubenwardy , Krock !
16:15 Krock !next
16:15 MinetestBot Another satisfied customer. Next!
16:16 adfeno Wow! MinetestBot
16:17 Krock Astrobe, most builds use LuaJIT, which does have bitops bundled, but which require the insecure "require" function
16:17 Krock so dirty divide, modulo and floor operations are needed sometimes :/
16:18 Astrobe yep!
16:19 Astrobe I'm actually hacking a jetpack mod so it's more jetpack-y (like in planetside for instance).
16:20 Krock weeeee... :) good luck with that one. They're quite fun - as long it's on singleplayer
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16:21 Krock barely anything fast runs smooth on servers
16:21 Astrobe because lag on servers?
16:21 Krock yep.
16:24 adfeno I think there should be a way to limit the jetpack speed.
16:24 adfeno maximum speed that is.
16:24 Astrobe It's more intended to overcome gravity than going fast though. Right now I implemented it by setting a negative gravity multiplier (-0.1).
16:25 Krock adfeno, you can always normalize the velocity vector and limit it to your desired maximal value
16:26 Astrobe But you indeed would go fast if you fall from a high cliff.
16:26 Astrobe The only difference is that using your jetpack thrust correctly may allow a non-lethal landing.
16:27 Astrobe Like the autorotate technique with helicopters.
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18:51 nepugia good day minetest playas
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20:13 GeHa gooddayi
20:43 danSNDBX Hej everyone, i uploaded my first minetest youtube video. please check it out and give me some feedback (/w), THX! https://youtu.be/YGWQMr1PrLU
20:47 * Krock gives danSNDBX some additional FPS
20:48 danSNDBX haha :D my CPU is fighting with the screen recording ^^ - but i think it is still watchable, isnt it krock?
20:49 adfeno Nice one danSNDBX I also plan on doing some gameplay videos too, I'll post announcements on some MediaGoblin server, and share the video mainly via torrent. ;)
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20:51 nepugia @dansnd just record your videos slowly and then speed em up hurhur :)
20:53 adfeno What I like about MG is that there are various service providers to choose from, and if you want, you can also use it yourself. And the MG project is trying to make things federated (that means: people using MG1 can interact with those from MG2 without having to make account, just like an email works today) ;)
20:55 nepugia first i though you were talking about minetest, but mediagoblin federation i really have not seen in action anywhere
20:55 * rubenwardy tries to determine if adfeno is a spam bot
20:55 * rubenwardy decides he probably isn't
20:55 rubenwardy *they *aren't
20:58 adfeno rubenwardy: If you wish, you can heck the channel logs for today, I was talking with Krock (I know you probably don't want to confirm this only with Krock , but I find helpful to say so)... I'm also registered with NickServ in this server.
20:58 rubenwardy XD
20:59 Krock but I guess I wasn't helpful at all, adfeno :/
20:59 nepugia a spambot with ai :o
20:59 adfeno rubenwardy: If in doubt, you can see other ways to contact me by visiting https://libreplanet.org/wiki/User:Adfeno#vCard
20:59 MaybeDragon adfeno: mediagoblin should use IPFS
21:01 adfeno Krock: You were very helpful, provided feedback. Something rare to find. Even more rare if we consider only people born between 80s and 90s.
21:04 adfeno danSNDBX: Was you the one who asked me what is MediaGoblin? (I think I closed the private chat window for some reason.... I got the wrong keyboard shortcut, :S)
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21:07 adfeno Well, to put it simple: GNU MediaGoblin is a project that aims to make a computer program/software that can be used to host media upload websites, and has other extra stuff like: comments, multiple file quality, and in the near future: federation (which is one of the coolest extras for me).
21:07 meff hey, I have a dvorak keyboard layout, is there a reason why hitting 's' while in any of text inputs causes the cursor to go back to the beginning of the line? ('s' maps to semicolon on QWERTY)
21:07 meff running this on macos, through XQuartz
21:09 nepugia @adfeno, federation is nice to have, but the point for me is that they dont have federation yet, as such the service is kinda meh with kinda meh content, i cant really easily upload videos and get them to be seen likely, since other people also upload much stuff, if i can upload it to my server and share it via federation that could change dou
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21:11 adfeno .... also, with the way our global contemporary economy is derailing (specially due to lack of regulation in technology), fostering/support for federated stuff is even more important now (see https://downloads.softwarefreedom.​org/2017/conference/0-keynote.webm, the video is legally shareable also)
21:11 adfeno nepugia: ^the link above also agrees with you, but also says it's a matter of getting the first step.
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21:13 nepugia maybe it should really have been the first step (as for me this is getting a bit offtopic :3)
21:14 adfeno Indeed . ;)
21:14 adfeno We can talk over at #fsf if you wish. ;)
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21:17 adfeno My last phrase here about lack of federation in Internet: There was a time back in the 90s where people used to depend on single publishers to make a living as artists, 2001 came and people saw various independent artists using various means of getting their work accross, even torrents. Now in 2010s we see a mirror of 90s again: everyone expects everyvideo to be only in YouTube, so artists have to adapt the 90s practice of relying on a
21:17 adfeno single entity for their content to appear, again.
21:17 adfeno And I'm done ;)
21:18 t20kdc adfeno: Nice speech. And, yeah, not helping that "vid.me" is apparently closing v.v
21:18 meff yeah I can't seem to type 's' in any of the textboxes in Minetest :/
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22:39 lil101 hi
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22:47 yadnus does anyone here know how to contact redblade7? his servers are down
22:49 meff hm sorry if I come across as impatient, but should I reiterate my question in #minetest-dev?
22:50 danSNDBX no idea yadnus, sory :(
22:50 pgimeno_ meff: it's most likely that the problem is in irrlicht not in minetest
22:51 rubenwardy no meff
22:51 rubenwardy it's a problem with Irrlicht
22:51 rubenwardy and Minetest not working around it
22:51 meff oh gotcha
22:52 rubenwardy I believe there's a way to make the keyboard go into QWERTY mode as a compatibility mode
22:54 meff seems like the engine itself just uses keycodes
22:54 meff but I'm guessing textboxes don't
22:54 meff I smell some sort of weird vim emulation, but idk if that is what's actually going on
22:54 pgimeno_ irrlicht sucks in several areas; keyboard handling is one, edit boxes is another
22:54 rubenwardy https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/302
22:55 pgimeno_ dead keys are not recognized, so as a Spanish user I can't type accented keys
22:55 pgimeno_ </rant>
22:56 meff is there an irrlicht issue open for this?
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23:00 adfeno meff: +1
23:00 adfeno also... accents in GNU+Linux...
23:04 meff http://svn.code.sf.net/p/irrlicht/code​/trunk/source/Irrlicht/CGUIEditBox.cpp
23:04 meff what is this soup of if/else
23:04 meff ugh
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