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IRC log for #minetest, 2017-01-09

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00:06 KikaRz cannot use MSYS ..
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00:31 KikaRz it's even harder on Visual Studio o.o
00:32 swift110 hey guys
00:34 KikaRz Hi swift110
00:45 swift110 how are you KikaRz
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00:47 KikaRz bad.
00:47 KikaRz and you?
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00:56 swift110 whats wrong KikaRz
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01:19 KikaRz swift110, I can't handle with Windows.
01:20 whitephoenix Is there any work going on to prevent recipe conflicts?
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01:44 aleph0_ Hi guys. How to set barter shop in game? When I use it after tuning it always became untuned. And how to fill it.
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03:37 jordan4ibanez paramat: I have solved the issue http://pastebin.com/raw/My9sWYGD
03:38 paramat good
03:38 jordan4ibanez I have to run the string as if it were it's own function with a return pasted onto the end and I can feed it back into a localized variable, interesting workaround
03:40 paramat useful, i made a copy of that
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03:52 jordan4ibanez Now I can do something interesting with this data...
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05:07 jordan4ibanez sofar: This is how I got around that https://github.com/jordan4ibanez/open_ai/com​mit/8bdf429bf507dccc893e130387e92998641e1a71​#diff-d7d74284e2e39f6c06d199c8e2bedbd0R1353
05:16 sofar you should load your schematics all at init load time
05:16 sofar and cache them. Otherwise you just load them over and over again.
05:16 sofar plus mod_security
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06:35 Hijiri hurray
06:35 Hijiri minetest 0.4.15 is in debian repos
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06:36 Calinou how long until it gets in a stable version? :]
06:40 est dunno, they entered soft freeze some time ago
06:41 est maybe they will ship next stable version with 0.4.14 ... :/
06:42 est https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/minetest
06:42 est mhh
06:43 est '2017-01-05: "Soft" freeze (no new packages, no re-entry, normal migrations) '
06:43 est '2017-02-05: Full freeze '
06:43 est https://wiki.debian.org/DebianStretch
06:43 est seems next debian stable version will ship with 0.4.15??
06:43 est after all, it was successfully migrated to testing
06:44 est ubuntu 17.04 surely will
06:44 est https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ZestyZapus/ReleaseSchedule
06:45 est in fact, zesty already has 0.4.15: http://packages.ubuntu.com/zesty/minetest
06:45 est https://pkgs.org/download/minetest
06:46 est ^ to find the packages that still didnt update
06:46 est lol, arch didnt update yet
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08:28 cheapie New project: https://cheapiesystems.com/media/im​ages/screenshot_20170109_022726.png
08:31 cheapie That's the start of a mesecons computer. So far, I have 5 registers done (3 general-purpose and 2 for ALU inputs) and the ALU has OR, XOR, and AND implemented. I still have to do, at the very least, NOT and addition functions, as well as instruction decoding, a ROM or something to hold the program, and a state machine to run the whole mess.
08:31 cheapie The mesecons themselves are actually being surprisingly reliable, even at these distances.
08:33 cheapie rdococ: You might like that ^^^ if you're around :P
08:33 Zeno` hmm
08:34 Zeno` NOT can be done with AND can't it?
08:35 cheapie Not as far as I know.
08:35 Zeno` hmm
08:35 cheapie Even if there is some way to do it with combinations of the others, consider this a "hardware-accelerated" NOT :P
08:36 cheapie You *can* do NOT with NAND (or NOR), maybe that's what you were thinking?
08:36 Zeno` maybe
08:36 Zeno` I need to review DeMorgan's laws
08:37 Zeno` you might be right
08:37 Zeno` I am sure I've seen NOT implemented in hardware with AND gates though
08:37 rdococ ?
08:37 Zeno` maybe I'm just recalling a dream
08:38 rdococ oh cool, mesecomputer
08:38 Zeno` yeah, implement NOT
08:38 Zeno` it's easier hehe
08:38 rdococ I think you're talking about NAND gates...
08:39 Zeno` perhaps I might be... demorgans laws show the equivalence.... but they still need a NOT
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08:39 Zeno` yeah ok.. NOT is probably essential
08:40 rdococ in fact, because you're utilising a physical medium you can merge separate segments and you have an OR without gates
08:40 rdococ thus you only need NOT, in the context of "physical logic" such as mesecons and redstone, to express any gate
08:40 Zeno` yes
08:40 cheapie rdococ: Yep, I am actually sort of cheating for the OR operation.
08:40 Zeno` but that is the context I'm thinking about
08:41 cheapie The plan is to just select AND and XOR at the same time for OR.
08:42 rdococ gtg soon... but I will be back in, say, 8 or so hours?
08:42 rdococ well, now it's 20 to 9 and I'll be back at half 3...
08:42 rdococ 6 hours?
08:42 rdococ yeah 6 hours
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08:44 agaran cheapie: are you going to make it harvard or von neuman ;)
08:44 cheapie I can't remember which is which :P
08:44 * cheapie looks it up
08:45 agaran and...clock frequency will be 1/60 Hz?;)
08:45 cheapie von Neumann was the plan.
08:45 agaran because otherwise MT never catches up with cycles..
08:45 rdococ still faster than winders
08:47 cheapie I wasn't really planning on a central clock, but rather having each decoded instruction trigger a series of delayers to perform the various steps, followed by the last one in the chain sending a pulse back to the state machine to continue on with the next whatever.
08:47 agaran hmm there was project on making async cpus..
08:47 cheapie So asynchronous, I guess.
08:48 agaran on test implementation interesting property was that code executed was changing electromagntic signature of cpu
08:48 agaran so long train of noops caused very faint signature etc..
08:48 agaran and it was changing a lot depending on instructions sequence..
08:49 * rdococ wonders if a computer could natively implement the "untyped lambda calculus"
08:49 agaran but they used special signals to denote that this unit finished processing triggering next to start of
08:50 agaran rdococ: there are machines running lisp interpreter as their firmware.. then all is made on top of that.. with semi-os in lisp...
08:50 nore <cheapie> The mesecons themselves are actually being surprisingly reliable, even at these distances. <-- you are quite lucky, my old mesecons computers never worked without having to debug jammed gates
08:50 agaran some weeks ago there was change to use voxel manips to speed them up
08:50 rdococ agaran: I'm not sure that's what I meant
08:50 rdococ but it could be?
08:50 nore rdococ: there are lisp machines, which compute in lisp as their hardware
08:51 rdococ ik
08:51 nore There is even an hardware-implemented gc
08:51 rdococ lisp -> lambda?
08:52 nore Lisp is just lambda calculus plus some primitives
08:52 rdococ I didn't say "lambda calculus with primitives"
08:52 rdococ but ok
08:52 nore (Well, almost, but lisp is a superset of lambda calculus)
08:53 rdococ a superset?
08:53 nore So if you have an hardware lisp machine, it can do lambda calculus as well
08:54 nore Well, every valid lambda calculus program is a valid lisp program
08:54 agaran cheapie: I'd put different color of support nodes under bus one..
08:54 nore (Up to syntax changes)
08:54 rdococ actually, I believe that hardware that can only use untyped lambda calculus is still TC in theory
08:54 agaran just to make easier for people to see what is data bus between registers etc
08:54 rdococ not in practice, but in theory I believe
08:54 nore rdococ: it is
08:54 cheapie agaran: Might be a good idea.
08:55 agaran and you have reversed bit order.. in some registers leftmost is LSB in some is MSB
08:55 rdococ what I find cool is that you can easily emulate the untyped lambda calculus with first class functions
08:55 agaran intentionally?
08:55 rdococ so any language with first class functions seems to be automatically TC?
08:55 nore cheapie: also, advice: do not use delayers, they are completely unreliable
08:56 nore rdococ: yes
08:56 cheapie nore: I haven't had any issues at all in my other machines using them.
08:56 nore (If it handles scope and closures correctly)
08:56 rdococ (of course)
08:56 nore cheapie: even at those distances?
08:56 cheapie Close to them, at least.
08:57 agaran cheapie: so memory elements are made from delayer and gate? I thought you made some special node for 1 bit memory element..
08:57 cheapie agaran: No, I'm using sort-of-SR-latches for the registers.
08:57 nore Well, I'm just saying that they broke my computers some time ago, but they are probably more reliable noe
08:58 nore *now
08:58 agaran cheapie: ah,but no common clear for reset state of cpu?
08:58 cheapie I could just use diodes to connect a "reset" line to all of the "clear" lines.
08:59 agaran hmm with insulated mesecons will red light blocks get lit at all?
08:59 rdococ imagine a minimalist language in which the only type is the first-class function: functions would then, well, basically become trees.
08:59 agaran cheapie, this is singleplayer or some server?
08:59 cheapie Singleplayer.
09:00 cheapie The red lights have T-junctions next to them so that they work.
09:00 agaran ah, from bus side.. I see
09:00 cheapie I *have* tested the parts I've built so far (with the switches and lights at the far left), and they all work so far.
09:00 agaran on most thats invisible on picture but top reg had it visible
09:00 agaran I was just asking, that I may not know/see something
09:01 agaran like under ground connections etc
09:01 cheapie No underground connections, all on one level so far.
09:01 nore rdococ: what you're describing is lambda calculus
09:01 * rdococ probably has to go now. will be back in 6 and a half hours.
09:01 agaran cheapie: :) maybe I will not show you 6502 silicon photograph..;)
09:02 agaran or you will rebuild it in mesecons
09:02 cheapie I've seen some of those.
09:02 nore Although, if you want it to be Turing complete, you need ti have not too much constraints on types
09:02 agaran I saw one with partial markings when people were decoding which transistor is what on it..
09:02 agaran something like 12kx12k pixels picture
09:07 cheapie Seeing as how it's 3AM here, I think I'll stop here for tonight. I have the NOT function working, and the wiring is also run out to where the addition section will be.
09:08 agaran :) good night
09:08 agaran its 10am here
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09:43 JamesTait Good morning all! Happy Monday, and happy Clean Off Your Desk Day! 😃
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12:07 rdococ back for about 50 mins
12:07 rdococ nore: I know ~.~
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14:02 Taose you know what could be useful... a ping column on the server selection page
14:03 Calinou Taose: unfortunately the ping would be relative to the master server, and not to you
14:03 Calinou unless we add ping packet support
14:03 Taose ...
14:04 Taose hmm
14:04 Taose Do we connect through the master server to other servers then?
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14:39 zorman2000 Hello all
14:39 zorman2000 Does anyone know how can I obtain all items that are fuel for the furnace? And their burn times?
14:40 zorman2000 Also, how do I know how much time an item takes to cook, e.g. cobble to stone?
14:40 zorman2000 Is that in the node def somewhere?
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15:32 rdococ ih
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15:37 sfan5 zorman2000: here's what the furnace code uses https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/​blob/master/mods/default/furnace.lua#L134
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15:40 zorman2000 sfan5: I see, they are crafting recipes. That is very helpful. Thanks!
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15:48 MinetestBot [git] sfan5 -> minetest/minetest: builtin/.../falling.lua: Avoid crash when hitting unknown nodes 73fdb63 https://git.io/vMlPu (2017-01-09T15:39:40Z)
15:51 Polypodiales https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eg9R2dx0D9E
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16:03 MinetestBot [git] zeuner -> minetest/minetest: support older PostGreSQL versions (#4999) 11df7e8 https://git.io/vMl1b (2017-01-09T16:03:13Z)
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16:40 Calinou Taose: no, you connect to the servers directly
16:41 Calinou but no ping command can be sent before connecting by your client
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16:41 rdococ hellao
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16:43 Taose ah fair enough Calinou
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16:44 rdococ is it usual to be disconnected due to "too many users" when there are 3/4 users?
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16:53 Polypodiales rdococ: I experience that too
16:53 sfan5 rdococ: the numbers on the serverlist can be outdated
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16:59 swift110 hey all
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17:08 rdococ sfan5: even when I return to the serverlist it remains 3/4
17:08 rdococ no 4th to be fond
17:09 sfan5 that number can also be outdated
17:10 Taose And if four people don't exist in the server?
17:10 Taose It sounds like rdococ is being kicked even though the server isn't full.
17:10 rdococ it's still 3.4
17:10 rdococ 3/4*
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17:11 Taose It might be a rounding error if you're in there and that adds up to 4/4
17:11 sfan5 reserved slots can also be thing
17:11 sfan5 no it's not a rounding error
17:11 Taose >.> reserved slots?
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17:14 twoelk reserved for staff maybe
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17:36 garywhite I take it you're talking about Minetesthosting.com, and I think the 4th slot is pretty much reserved for the owner
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17:55 CWz which owner ?
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17:56 CWz since username specified in name in the minetest.conf can always join does that mean that a server could have 6/5 player logged in
17:56 CWz ?
17:57 sfan5 yes
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18:25 LinuxGuy2020 Hey guys I'm running VanessaE dream builder mod collection and I need to make some coal dust. I'm not on creative mode so I crafted a LV grinder. Whats the easiest way to power an LV machine without needing something to be ground first? Or is there an easier way to grind stuff without a grinder?
18:29 garywhite LV solar and a battery box works well
18:31 agaran lv furnaces work too
18:31 agaran 2 of them
18:31 agaran i mean lv fire powered generator
18:31 Polypodiales what does lv mean?
18:31 agaran or as gary said, bateries if you have alloy furnace
18:32 agaran but solars require gold dust.. so.. definitively FF gens first
18:32 agaran Low voltage..
18:32 agaran one of 3 tech levels in technic mod from which grinders and rest come from
18:32 Polypodiales thank you
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18:33 garywhite !next
18:33 MinetestBot Another satisfied customer. Next!
18:34 rdococ !nixt
18:35 rdococ !next
18:35 rdococ ??
18:35 js209 !next
18:35 MinetestBot Another satisfied customer. Next!
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18:41 Taose lulz, rdococ is being ignored
18:41 rdococ !next
18:41 MinetestBot Another satisfied customer. Next!
18:41 rdococ oh yay
18:41 Taose XD
18:41 rdococ thanks for noticing me Taose :p
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19:30 LinuxGuy2020 Ok so I have a fuel fired LV generator and an LV grinder side by side and an LV cable connecting them on there backs. Put coal into generator and no light on front. What am I doing wrong?
19:30 Polypodiales I got this game running on my odroid xu4!
19:32 Taose Have you put the object you want to grind in yet?
19:32 LinuxGuy2020 Polypodiales: Wow thats a small machine, never seen one before.
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19:33 LinuxGuy2020 Taose: Yes coal. I need coal dust.
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19:33 Taose Someone will run a minetest server on a raspberry pi eventually
19:33 Polypodiales the xu4 is as big as a pi
19:34 agaran I know one who was testing it
19:34 agaran LinuxGuy2020: did you add switching station there too?
19:35 LinuxGuy2020 I was thinking of buying a LattePanda with a quad Atom on it for my minetest server at home.
19:35 LinuxGuy2020 agaran: no, is it a requirement?
19:36 Taose Intel is the way to go
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19:37 LinuxGuy2020 Ill build a switching station then and try that. Thanks.
19:39 agaran yes
19:39 agaran it is required
19:41 MinetestBot [git] Rui-Minetest -> minetest/minetest: Add staticdata parameter to add_entity (#5009) ec30d49 https://git.io/vM8s4 (2017-01-09T19:39:45Z)
19:41 MinetestBot [git] nerzhul -> minetest/minetest: Environment & IGameDef code refactoring (#4985) 8e7449e https://git.io/vM8sR (2017-01-09T19:39:22Z)
19:43 * An0n3m0us test
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22:49 cheapie My mesecons computer just successfully executed its first instruction (although it was manually loaded into the instruction register).
22:51 sofar int 10?
22:54 cheapie No, I don't have the instruction sequencing for anything more complicated than copying data between registers implemented yet.
22:55 cheapie Nor is it yet capable of the "fetch" step (and it doesn't have anything to fetch from yet anyway).
23:01 emunand emulator in mesecons is soon here
23:04 Taose Is there any way to "repair" tools?
23:04 sofar needs a mod I think
23:05 Taose >_>
23:07 Taose That's not annoying at all
23:07 sofar no? :)
23:08 Polypodiales I saw a mod that does that
23:08 Taose My fifth diamond pick axe just went up in smoke
23:08 Calinou you can repair tools by combining two tools of the same type and material
23:08 Calinou it'll add up their durabilities, and add a 2% bonus
23:08 Taose O.o
23:08 Calinou (so it's not very useful)
23:08 Taose Is that a mod or does it exist
23:08 Calinou you combine them in the crafting area
23:08 Calinou it's built into minetest_game
23:08 Calinou since early 0.4
23:08 Taose o.o
23:08 Calinou (Minecraft added that feature in 1.0 or so, so we did the same \o/)
23:09 Taose So lemme get this straight
23:09 Taose Two bronze axes and a bronze ingot
23:09 Taose or just two bronze axes?
23:09 Taose ...just two bronze axes
23:10 Taose When you say "add up durabilities" does this increase the maximum?
23:11 Taose So say a bronze axe has a usage of about 10 (it damn well seems like it) and I combine two, would my new axe have 20 uses?
23:11 Calinou no, you can't go above the maximum
23:11 Taose ...
23:11 Taose dammit
23:12 Calinou two diamond picks with 40% left each = one pick with 82%
23:12 Taose Yep
23:12 Taose or at least...something like that
23:12 Taose I'll keep that in mind I guess.
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23:58 whitephoenix just tried a pvp server
23:58 whitephoenix kinda underwhelming

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