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IRC log for #minetest, 2017-01-08

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:19 agaran new features for bot?
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00:25 sfan5 agaran: those features aren't new
00:25 sfan5 they're been there for 2 or 3 years
00:26 agaran ah:) I havent noticed them before
00:28 IhrFussel Guys, Lua's math.random() takes negative number too right? Cause I didn't find any examples of negative values
00:30 IhrFussel I need those for my /random command...it tp a player to any random position (fun command)
00:30 cnelsonsic Is there any way to get where on a node or entity a player punched? I want to add headshots to one zombie mod or another. :)
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00:34 sfan5 IhrFussel: i don't think it does
00:34 sfan5 if you want random numbers from -1000 to 1000 use math.random()*2000 - 1000
00:34 IhrFussel sfan5, it says an integer..AFAIK -1 is an INT too
00:39 IhrFussel I use it like this math.random(-6000,6000) ...well I'll see if it works
00:42 IhrFussel sfan5, Which Lua version is Minetest using? I'm running 5.2 locally and it does work "print(math.random(-10,10))" gave me -3
00:43 agaran I would not rely on random returning negative numbers
00:43 agaran doubling range, then substracting is safer
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00:58 IhrFussel agaran, but it does...I ran it now for a few minutes and it always gave any number between -10 and 10
01:15 agaran sure, I am just thinking if it is planned or error behavior.. and then what if one fixes error..
01:16 agaran meh too late
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03:24 freelikegnu !rainbow icamefromthebuttofaunicooooooorn!
03:24 MinetestBot 4icam7efro8mthe3buttofau6nicooooo4oorn7!
03:34 KaadmY "an unicorn" is incorrect english, i think you mean "a unicorn"
03:48 mystik KaadmY: confirmed: http://english.stackexchange.com/qu​estions/252217/why-is-it-a-unicorn :)
03:48 * mystik had to look it up, i was second guessing myself too :)
03:49 KaadmY arch english :?
03:49 sofar an umbrella
03:49 sofar u uniform
03:49 sofar Juuuniform
03:50 sofar uuumbrella
03:50 sofar Junicorn
03:50 sofar silent J
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05:30 randomminer Is anyone here using the aliveai mod?
05:31 Taose Nope
05:31 Taose (not yet anyway)
05:31 Taose Does the server still rely on CPU computing?
05:32 randomminer damn, hoping someone could tell me how to get the thing operational XD
05:32 Taose ... have you tried uninstalling it, waiting 30secs and then reinstalling ;P
05:33 * randomminer reboots computer
05:33 randomminer :P
05:33 Taose XD
05:33 randomminer oh this massive cable that says "DO NOT UNPLUG" should that be plugged in?
05:33 Taose You...have one of those?
05:34 Taose >.> how about
05:34 Taose we leave that building
05:34 Taose go home
05:34 Taose boot up a smaller computer
05:34 Taose >.>
05:34 randomminer haha
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06:18 Taose Okay, I have the viewing range, is there anyway to increase how much land generates in the client? I'd kinda like to see further...
06:19 Taose Normally it's draw distance but can't figure out how to set it
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07:43 MinetestBot [git] lhofhansl -> minetest/minetest: Get neighbor from same map block if possible in ABMHandler (#4998) b074683 https://git.io/vMCHs (2017-01-08T07:42:25Z)
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07:50 paramat Taose max_block_send_distance = 10 (10 = 160 nodes is default) in .conf
07:51 paramat 'block' = 16 nodes
07:53 paramat or set it in advanced settings menu
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09:40 cheapie Cam timer in Minetest: https://cheapiesystems.com/media/im​ages/screenshot_20170108_033932.png
09:41 cheapie Pistons to push nodes around in a circle, and node detectors as "switches", activated by the "cams" (black clay).
09:42 cheapie The red stripe represents the "reference point" (where it stops/starts). The nearest switch is used for that, and the other 7 can carry arbitrary data. There are a total of 25 positions on the "drum".
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09:56 Taose If anyone's in the need of "mod" ideas... we could really use a safety rope for cave diving >.>
09:56 Taose (fell into a deep cave again)
09:56 An0n3m0us lol
09:56 Taose (I drowned in a water elevator too...but that's another story)
09:56 An0n3m0us heh
10:05 Taose VanessaE: Regarding your HD Texture pack, do you have a list of supported mods (i.e mods that have been textured for) because some mods attempt to install new textures and it meshes really badly.
10:05 Taose ...found it
10:07 Taose Maybe not. Have those supported mods been textured for or is it just a case of the mods combined with the texture pack don't result in a crash?
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10:08 VanessaE ls |cut -f 1 -d "_" |sort |uniq
10:08 VanessaE :)
10:08 VanessaE that'll get you close :P
10:09 Taose >.>
10:09 Taose If that results in rm -rf */*...
10:09 An0n3m0us lol
10:09 VanessaE it won't.
10:10 VanessaE chickenshit ;)
10:10 Taose X)
10:10 Taose Minetest, it's making me cautious...
10:12 Taose Oh I see, thanks ^-^
10:31 juhdanad Are there items where inventory_image and wield_image differ?
10:34 agaran VanessaE ;)
10:34 agaran juhdanad: I think some mesecon insulated wires differ
10:34 juhdanad Thank you!
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10:44 w_laenger hi
10:46 Taose How can I "place" weapons
10:46 Taose or tools for that matter
10:47 VanessaE you have to drop them.
10:47 VanessaE (q)
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10:48 Taose But that just drops them doesn't it?
10:48 juhdanad I think Taose meant nodes with meshes.
10:49 Taose ^ has no clue >.<
10:49 VanessaE Taose: you can't "place" a tool.  you have to just drop it.
10:50 juhdanad If you create a node (a node is a thing that you can place in the world), it can display a mesh for you.
10:50 Taose T_T
10:50 w_laenger I'm thinking about adding a key combination to ~/.config/openbox/lubuntu-rc.xml which executes xdotool type "t/home"; xdotool key Return
10:50 VanessaE (it used to be that you could place them like you do a node, but that was phased out years ago)
10:50 Taose >.>
10:50 juhdanad But I don't think there is a built-in mechanism for that.
10:50 Taose someone had a bright idea...
10:50 Taose Now I need to take this newly created wooden sword, track them down...
10:51 Taose and beat them over the head with it -.-
10:51 w_laenger the mechanism still exists https://github.com/HybridDog/di​amonds/blob/master/init.lua#L58
10:53 w_laenger that mechanism was enabled for each item by default a long time ago
10:56 juhdanad w_laenger: this doesn't work for me.
10:57 w_laenger maybe that should be on_place instead of on_place_on_ground
10:59 juhdanad Still doesn't work.
10:59 w_laenger then idk
11:00 w_laenger I've got a question about the lua api
11:00 w_laenger When somebody writes sth in chat, each function passed by register_on_chatmessage is executed
11:01 w_laenger Why is it performed in c++ instead of lua?
11:03 agaran to permit lua side modifiers on chat content aka commands?
11:03 w_laenger Minetest core takes each function from the registered table and executes them.
11:04 w_laenger Instead you could execute the functions in lua, e.g. in a function called perform_reg.
11:05 w_laenger Then the core would need to execute only one function.
11:05 w_laenger agaran, the lua side modifiers would still work
11:06 w_laenger As far as I know, passing things from lua to c++ is expensive.
11:06 agaran but then you would need prepare wrapper on lua side that permits registering, moving whole registration to lua, and just calling final outside code from C++
11:07 w_laenger Yes, would the wrapper work faster?
11:07 agaran that can be tested easilly..
11:07 agaran craft custom game with mods, replacing all calls to register on chat message by your own wrapper.. where its inside is only place calling true register once..
11:08 agaran so you effectivelly do one call from c++ side to it, then all will be done within lua
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11:10 w_laenger It can be tested by adding lots of functions and measuring time.
11:10 w_laenger But maybe it behaves completely different if there are 10 or 10000 functions
11:10 agaran well or just predefined amounts registered directly, then same using wrapper replacement
11:11 agaran hmm you could make it toggleable.. whatever wrapper.register calls true register directly or own..
11:11 agaran then repeat few times for different number of load-calls registered..
11:11 agaran that even could be turned into automated test..
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11:12 w_laenger ok
11:14 agaran sorry, QA-mode toggled in..
11:18 MinetestBot [git] nerzhul -> minetest/minetest: Move ServerEnvironment to dedicated cpp/header files 98e36d7 https://git.io/vMCbP (2017-01-08T11:16:06Z)
11:18 MinetestBot [git] nerzhul -> minetest/minetest: Move ClientEnvironment to dedicated cpp/header files eb2c19b https://git.io/vMCbX (2017-01-08T11:16:06Z)
11:22 w_laenger agaran, I tested it
11:23 w_laenger 10000 functions: direct: 4.763 s; wrapped: 0.106 s
11:24 w_laenger 100000 functions: direct: 38235 ms; wrap: 649 ms
11:25 agaran so quite huge gain..
11:25 w_laenger 100 functions: direct: 107 ms; wrap: 54 ms
11:26 agaran I think realistic is 30-50 calls hooked on messages not more, but maybe I am wrong.
11:27 w_laenger I tried it with 10 functions without success
11:28 w_laenger direct: 6 ms, wrapped: 3 ms
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11:28 w_laenger It can't be measured
11:28 agaran too small amount..
11:29 agaran Hmm, how about measuring few points more between 100 and 100k functions to see relation and fit some 3rd order at most curve to it?
11:29 w_laenger oops, sorry, I mean µs, not ms
11:30 w_laenger I didn't wait 38 seconds for that…
11:30 Taose lmfao
11:30 agaran maybe it will show some nice and fitting corelation with like quadric or such
11:30 Taose Quadric?
11:31 agaran I mean some low order polynomial..
11:34 w_laenger there's the code: https://gist.github.com/HybridDog​/aeba934739beb29dc3b41892a55ed283
11:35 w_laenger I think the registered should be extricated from cpp
11:35 agaran nice way to fetch how much just calls took :)
11:36 w_laenger if it takes < .001 seconds, it doesn't matter
11:36 agaran yup
11:37 w_laenger but if someone decides for any reason to e.g. excute 100000 times register_on_generated, the wrapped function works a lot faster
11:42 w_laenger agaran, how do you think about the chat prediction in minetest?
11:43 w_laenger If you write something and leave
11:44 w_laenger If you write something before leaving and the server is lagging, to you it looks like the message arrived but it's actually just the prediction
11:44 agaran I think I would kill it with fire..
11:44 agaran rather using message rtt client/server/client to raport how bad is RTT actually.. but thats /me
11:44 w_laenger And it disallows coloured chat
11:46 agaran well last is not most problematic, but making false impression that message got thru, and it did not.. is worse
11:47 w_laenger You need to join with a second player to watch…
11:48 agaran true..
11:49 w_laenger It also obfuscates the source code
11:49 w_laenger There's something which avoids sending the message to the author
11:50 agaran yup, and that could be killed with fire too.. simplifying code and making actual chat be more predictable
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11:52 w_laenger Since ctrl+v works in minetest and https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/com​mit/c5f11d74d4480e94456f702bb83f9d1a2fe191c4, you can put the code into a book and furnace it
11:55 agaran lol
11:56 agaran for me ctrl-c/ctrl-v under linux is tricky in minetest
11:56 agaran feels like it uses wrong clipboard, and only one way.. so normal cut/paste with mouse in xterm's and X-apps does not work with mt..
11:57 w_laenger I somehow need to press ctrl+v twice to insert the clipboard
11:58 agaran I normally use only mouse selection/paste.. and that obviously is totally not working with MT..
11:58 w_laenger you could run $ xsel -b -o | xsel
11:59 w_laenger and $ xsel -o | xsel -b
11:59 agaran hmm I'll try it
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12:28 * rdococ would like a plague inc subgame
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12:54 IhrFussel Best way to write a chat command with autocomplete function? You may say now "Minetest features tab-completion" but many admins/moderators play on phone and need it there too...so maybe minetest.get_connected_players() and then somehow check if the param matches one of them?
12:57 IhrFussel My idea is a teleport command that doesnt require the full playername... Like /modtp lisa should be enough to match lisa2761535 for example
13:02 agaran Hi IhrFussel
13:03 IhrFussel agaran, hi there! I read what you said in the irc log and will watch the behavior of the command but so far it works flawlessly
13:05 agaran good, I just wanted to warn..
13:07 Taose IhrFussel, but what if have Lisa2344 and Lisa2?
13:07 IhrFussel Taose, then it will cancel the command and tell "too many matches, try again"
13:08 * Taose is satisfied
13:08 IhrFussel But its pretty rare that 2 players with very similar names connect at the same time
13:10 IhrFussel So im thinking the best way is a counter var that is 0 and each time a playername matches the pattern it adds 1...and only if its 1 at the end of the online list loop the player will tp otherwise error
13:11 rdococ /agreewith Ihr
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13:13 IhrFussel Can i tell Lua to ignore case-sensitivity? "lisa" should match Lisa too or lisA
13:13 rdococ string.lower()
13:14 rdococ eg: string.lower("LIsA") == "lisa"
13:14 IhrFussel Alright thanks :)
13:14 rdococ apply it to both the parameter the player input and the usernames you check it against
13:16 agaran i wish that registering NiCkName, would block all other variants that end in same lowercase string..
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13:42 Taose Anyone want to recommend a hunger mod?
13:43 Taose The only one I've found so far puts a glaring cross in the middle of my screen
13:43 Taose scratch that...
13:43 Taose makes it more obvious
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13:49 rdococ make your own :p
13:49 Taose ._.
13:50 Taose That's why I'm learning python
13:50 agaran Taose, I am afraid you need to check few to find out which one you like
13:50 Taose (I know, it's gonna be a long journey)
13:50 agaran well for MT better learn lua;)
13:50 Taose Hence the recommendations.
13:50 IhrFussel Taose, i use "hunger" on my server and never noticed such a cross...either it happens only on pc or you mean another
13:50 Taose There's a cross the default hud
13:51 Taose The particular hunger mod that I use attempts to improve on the default interface
13:51 Taose it also adds in the hunger mod
13:51 IhrFussel Taose, i installed "hud" mod too
13:52 Taose Then download it straight, only minetest game...you'll see the cross
13:52 IhrFussel Yes but if you use hud+hunger the cross will be gone
13:53 Taose https://forum.minetest.net/v​iewtopic.php?f=11&amp;t=6342
13:53 Taose No it won't
13:55 IhrFussel Then its only a problem on PC i guess, on phone i dont see it...probably for better pointing with the mouse
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15:01 Taose gotta like how leaves drop saplings all on their own
15:01 Taose so much time saved
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15:02 agaran heh, if you cut all trunks, then leaves decay, some of them turn into sapling as well
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15:02 Taose That's what I was referring to
15:02 IhrFussel Am I stupid now?! If I define a local variable inside an if statement...will it only be accessible inside that condition? o.o
15:03 Taose Unlikely
15:03 Taose With C, as long as it's within braces, sure
15:03 Taose but if statements don't need braces..
15:04 IhrFussel No I'm talking about Lua...I'll post my code one sec
15:05 Taose Does lua have a "private" identifier?
15:05 Taose or something equivalent?
15:06 Taose Often if you want to make doubly sure then you use something like that
15:06 IhrFussel It says mpl is nil even though tpc seems to be 1 http://pastebin.com/Xjx7Zcdk
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15:13 Taose Indentation?
15:18 Taose Have you confirmed tpc is 1?
15:19 Taose What's the ~=?
15:21 Calinou "not equals"
15:21 Calinou almost all other languages use !=, yet Lua uses ~=
15:21 Taose XD
15:22 Taose Then it looks like string.lower(pn) isn't working
15:22 Taose Check the name is actually being assigned.
15:22 Taose It's the only way I could see that mpl would be nil yet tpc == 1.
15:24 Taose http://pastebin.com/W7eSgydJ Just in case anyone wanted an indented/syntax highlighted version.
15:24 Taose and my god this reminds me of java so much -_-
15:25 IhrFussel Taose, I just added a if tpc == 1 then core.chat_send_player(name,"tpc is 1") end and yes it sends it
15:25 Taose So we *are* getting through that for loop.
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15:26 IhrFussel Maybe I need to define mpl inside the loop as local not outside?
15:27 Taose No
15:27 Taose You're using it elsewhere.
15:28 Taose The bug is between lines 5 and 9.
15:29 Taose It's not get_connected players, because it's only looping through once.
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15:30 Taose Might want to check what pn is after it is assigned (before lowering its case)
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15:33 Taose I assume that the ":" in this case is like a read-in operator of some kind and that opl is an object.
15:33 Taose (well, call to a class function I mean)
15:34 IhrFussel Taose, it works here (same loop for kicking players) http://pastebin.com/QMPKnsrn
15:36 Taose What did testing pn give you?
15:36 Taose (in your code)
15:37 IhrFussel pn can't be nil or else mpl would complain...tokick takes the value of mpl and core.kick_player uses tokick
15:37 Taose Apparently it is nil.
15:38 Taose Why would mpl complain?
15:38 Taose It already has nil. Assigning it nil isn't going to make a difference.
15:39 IhrFussel Taose, oh I was talking about the 2nd code snippet now which works (I typed "i" as param and it gave me "too many matches" then "ihr" and it kicked me)
15:39 Taose (Anyone with more lua experience than I, please, chip in -_-)
15:39 Taose Yep, but that's a different chunk of code.
15:40 Taose What about the first one?
15:43 IhrFussel Taose, if it helps here is the whole part of the default teleport command which I modified: http://pastebin.com/kTmSWzmc
15:44 Taose >.>
15:44 * Taose wonders if IhrFussel knows that their Lua exp is nil
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15:50 * rdococ just encountered his first silver desert
15:50 Taose o.o
15:52 rdococ it's like a flat plane made of silver sand
15:52 rdococ silver sand is a recent addition to the _game
15:52 emunand it's like that white desert
15:52 Taose ah
15:54 IhrFussel Taose, WHAT...I just replaced mpl with target_name and it works
15:54 Taose keke
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16:03 rdococ oh my god I must have found a dessert
16:03 rdococ that's what it is
16:03 Taose ?
16:03 rdococ the white desert
16:03 rdococ it's actually an ice cream dessert :p
16:03 rdococ jk
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16:36 Rick5 hi to all
16:40 Rick5 hi, I installed ubuntu with minetest 0.4.14 I downloaded the package from synaptic mobf (for animals) but the game can not find the file init.lua anyone can help me?
16:41 sfan5 download mods from the forum instead
16:41 Rick5 ok
16:42 Rick5 thanks
16:42 Taose Downloading minetest from the site is also recommended.
16:42 Taose (ubuntu user here)
16:42 Taose I don't think the respository releases are sanctioned.
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16:52 Calinou Taose: generally, ISVs don't support software found in distribution packages, with rare exceptions
16:52 Calinou (they're often out of date)
16:52 Calinou but for example, Blender has a no-support policy for those :P
16:53 Taose Well
16:53 Taose With ubuntu it's pretty easy
16:53 Taose most of it comes not customized
16:53 Taose it's just out of date
16:54 Taose in which case the standard only solution you can give is to "update"
16:54 Taose and that's pretty reasonable
16:54 Taose I especially like that Minetest appears to be self contained
16:55 Calinou Minetest isn't self-contained by default on Linux :P
16:55 Taose ?
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16:55 Taose I didn't have to install anything >.>
16:55 Taose I just run the shell and away it goes
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16:56 est31 by running the shell you install something
16:56 polypodiales what do you mean by self-contained
16:56 est31 its just that on linux, installing stuff is super easy
16:56 est31 unlike on windows
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16:56 Taose Not really est31...unless I'm installing minetest every time
16:56 Calinou we don't provide official standlone Linux binaries (yet?)
16:57 Calinou we link to either source code, or distribution packages
16:57 est31 Taose: what do you run in your shell?
16:57 est31 yeah, we should provide official snap/flatpak images
16:58 Taose I mean, it doesn't go off installing into odd directories, requiring this that and the other. Aside I think from data (stored in my home directory I think so easily deletable). It generally runs without me needing to make any changes or it making any changes to my system.
16:58 Taose Unlike with so many games out there.
16:58 Taose I mean...
16:58 Taose try removing Command and Conquer without the uninstall button.
16:58 Taose >_>
16:58 polypodiales well it has dependencies, like the engine and irrlicht
16:59 Taose Which come with it.
16:59 polypodiales no they don't, your package manager installs them seperately but automatically
16:59 est31 also maybe official appimage would make sense too
16:59 Taose I didn't use a package manager.
16:59 Taose >_>
16:59 polypodiales >_> >_> >_> >_>
16:59 est31 Taose: so, what did you actually run to get minetest
16:59 Taose and nothing can use apt unless I give my password.
17:00 est31 did you compile it from source
17:00 Taose yep.
17:00 Taose Really damn easy too.
17:00 polypodiales then you downloaded those things too
17:00 est31 yup
17:00 est31 however, if you compiled it from source, you still had to get the dependencies
17:00 Taose As I said, self contained.
17:00 redblade hi
17:00 est31 and on linux this works via apt get
17:00 Taose I did no apt get
17:01 redblade who is tenplus1 on github
17:01 Taose I did, make. Build. Run.
17:01 polypodiales the stuff you compiled does depend on other things which you installed using your package manager though
17:01 polypodiales so it's not self contained
17:02 redblade i'd rather not publish a bug report in this case, would rather talk on irc
17:02 redblade does tenplus1 come here, and under what nick?
17:03 Calinou redblade: he is currently away
17:03 Calinou (and not connected on IRC)
17:03 redblade ok
17:03 redblade what is his nickname though
17:04 Calinou tenplus1
17:04 redblade ok thank you
17:04 Taose I already had all of those :/. But it's close enough to being self contained and removable at the drop of a hat.
17:04 Taose for me.
17:04 redblade !seen tenplus1
17:04 MinetestBot redblade: tenplus1 was last seen at 2014-12-18 19:59:42 UTC on #minetest
17:04 Taose 2014
17:04 Taose Dead.
17:05 Calinou he is in another channel, redblade
17:05 redblade well i'm getting a warning from protector redo and i dont know what it means
17:05 Calinou (too many players bugging him here I guess)
17:05 redblade oh ok
17:05 Pest joined #minetest
17:05 redblade should i join minetest-dev?
17:05 Calinou no, not that one
17:06 Calinou see PM
17:07 Taose I am not looking forward to adding an extension...
17:07 polypodiales extension for what
17:08 Taose My "home"
17:08 Taose It takes ages to redo the roof...
17:08 Taose or rooves
17:09 Taose and at some point I'm going to need a proper kitchen
17:10 Taose to cook all my stone...
17:13 TommyTreasure joined #minetest
17:32 Taose goddamn it.
17:32 Taose All the hunger mods are simply inferior forks of the one I don't want XD
17:32 agaran write own :) good one?
17:33 * Taose has lua skills that would make any visual basic'er blush.
17:34 agaran :-)
17:34 agaran vb was fun around vb2.0 and early windows..
17:35 Taose But in all seriousness, I would have no clue where to start.
17:35 agaran read current code of some -simple- mod
17:35 agaran try change something, learn
17:39 Pie-jacker875 joined #minetest
17:52 Taose ...
17:53 Taose ...well that turned out to be less of a problem than I thought it was going to be
17:58 KaadmY joined #minetest
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18:24 MinetestBot [git] lhofhansl -> minetest/minetest: Minor: Fix indentation in serverenvironment.cpp 1fee649 https://git.io/vMWOA (2017-01-08T18:22:33Z)
18:24 soloojos joined #minetest
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18:27 red-001 well start out with editing a simple mod?
18:31 lumidify joined #minetest
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18:55 kaeza greetings
18:55 agaran greetings
18:55 polypodiales greetings
18:56 red-001 greetings
18:57 An0n3m0us erm, greetings?
18:57 red-001 :( you messed up the layout
18:57 An0n3m0us sory
18:58 red-001 most mt channels are at least 50% greetings
18:58 dvere joined #minetest
18:58 kaeza it used to be more active :(
18:59 MrBeNNy joined #minetest
18:59 kaeza around 2012-2013
19:00 red-001 huh so the game became more and more popular and the IRC less and less active?
19:01 kaeza cool kids don't use IRC
19:01 kaeza it's all FB or Snapchat or whatever's going these days
19:01 polypodiales did the game really become more poplure?
19:02 kaeza man, I sound like my grandpa :/
19:02 polypodiales kaeza: https://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/team_chat.png
19:02 kaeza polypodiales, hah
19:03 juhdanad joined #minetest
19:04 * Taose laughs at the xkcd
19:04 Taose Just about right.
19:05 Taose irc is pretty good at what it does.
19:05 red-001 nice xkcd
19:05 red-001 never saw that one before
19:06 red-001 ohh it's a new one
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19:12 Calinou Discord is the cool one now, kaeza
19:13 agaran kaeza: ;)
19:13 red-001 well there is a minetest discord channel
19:13 red-001 it's just even more dead then IRC
19:14 swift110 joined #minetest
19:14 juhdanad Did you know that there is built-in support in Minetest to create your own aquarium mod?
19:14 swift110 joined #minetest
19:14 red-001 huh?
19:14 red-001 no
19:15 juhdanad If you use the glasslike framed drawtype, then the node's param2 will be the water level.
19:15 silwol I am using matrix/riot for everything now, including participation in IRC cannels.
19:16 juhdanad And the first special texture will be the water's texture.
19:16 red-001 I had no idea
19:16 juhdanad I just found this while experimenting.
19:16 red-001 why did something so specific get added?
19:16 juhdanad I don't know.
19:17 Pie-jacker875 discord for minetest? why would you use a proprietary chatting service for a free game?
19:17 red-001 and they complain about having minetest.is_yes return true if passed "on"
19:17 red-001 why not?
19:18 swift110 hey all
19:18 red-001 hi swift
19:18 Taose Well it *is* still free Pie
19:18 swift110 maybe it would be cool to have a telegram group for Minetest
19:18 swift110 how are you red-001
19:18 red-001 I'm good
19:18 Taose Still, there are other "free open source" games out there, that call themselves, open source and then force everyone to use IntelliJ (proprietary java ide)
19:19 swift110 good red-001 what ya up to
19:19 red-001 not much really
19:19 red-001 I wrote another basic mod for minetest through
19:19 juhdanad red-001: The plasma lamp in VanessaE's homedecor mod uses this feature.
19:19 Calinou Taose: you can use Vim to hack on Terasology, I'm quite sure
19:20 swift110 red-001, that's awesome
19:20 swift110 What is being done to teach more people about Minetest?
19:20 Taose Oh you can, but unless you know what you're doing, you're in for a world of pain.
19:20 red-001 nothing?
19:20 Taose ^ seconds
19:21 Taose Still its our job to promote MineTest.
19:21 lumidify joined #minetest
19:22 Calinou Taose: well this is Java
19:22 red-001 minetest doesn't really have an thing in which it is obvious that it is better then minecraft apart from being free
19:22 swift110 yes Taose
19:22 red-001 any*
19:22 red-001 I mean open source is cool and all
19:23 Pie-jacker875 well for me it not being microsoft is that thing
19:23 red-001 but most people don't really care about that
19:23 mystik Taose: in my limited free time, i'm thinking of cooking up a MT hosting system; that heavily promotes pulling mods from github, in order to promote the open source nature of it
19:23 swift110 red-001, but it doesn't have to be that way forever.  But it is limited by the amount of time the relatively few people have to work on it outside of the rest of their lives
19:23 Taose No Calinou, this is C++/Lua, it's worse :)
19:23 Pie-jacker875 since Mojang was bought I wouldn't touch minecraft with a 10 foot pole
19:23 DuCake joined #minetest
19:23 Taose (pls don't kill me, I don't mean it)
19:23 swift110 Pie-jacker875, why do you feel that way?
19:23 red-001 huh
19:24 Pie-jacker875 Microsoft is gross
19:24 red-001 minetest would be way better if it had some sort of package managment for mods
19:24 red-001 and a mod store
19:24 swift110 I talk about minetest in my channels
19:24 mystik red-001: yes
19:24 Taose mystik: sounds good?
19:24 swift110 I would also play it more if I could understand it better as well
19:25 red-001 imagine if you could just chose a mod and package management would be done in the background
19:25 Taose The problem with a "Package manager" is that...the game itself isn't v1 yet...
19:25 mystik Taose: the theory is: make it easy to spin up a configuration/game w/ configuration, allow folks to pull the source and tweak the sources, connect the subgames to github files
19:26 red-001 I think minetest is always going to be >1.0.0
19:26 mystik it's a bit ....... vapor now.
19:26 Taose They do something similar over at Miraheze
19:26 mystik the map i'm hosting for xanadu is the *start* of it; but there's lots to do.
19:27 swift110 red-001, why is that?
19:27 octacian Is it possible to store the formspec in metadata yet still trigger actions (including updating it) on_rightclick?
19:27 red-001 but that means that a large part of git will have to be integrated?
19:27 Taose No road map Swift.
19:27 swift110 Taose, really? I didn't now that
19:27 red-001 well it seems to happen with a lot of open source projects
19:28 SylvieLorxu joined #minetest
19:28 Taose Until someone decides what V1 looks like, there's no way to get to it.
19:28 swift110 I fully intend to play the game more this year and to promote it where I can.  I do have a blog that can be used as well.
19:28 sofar nothing stops anyone from porting rubenwardy's android mod app to minetest itself
19:28 kaeza there was a mod manager in the past
19:28 sofar it should be fairly easy, even
19:28 red-001 I don't mean it wouldn't get stable
19:28 swift110 So what are some goals that you think can be realistically reached in the short-term
19:28 kaeza was removed because maintainer went MIA
19:29 red-001 I just doubt the version number will change
19:29 Markow joined #minetest
19:29 Taose as if it isn't stable
19:30 Taose Oh I lie
19:30 Taose there's a roadmap
19:30 Taose only up to 0.5.0 though
19:30 Taose https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2370
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19:32 swift110 ok Taose so what can we do to make this happen
19:33 Taose Learn to C++ and get stuck in solving the issues
19:33 swift110 Taose, hmm I don't even know python lol
19:33 Taose I know the feeling
19:33 kaeza http://abstrusegoose.com/249
19:34 grumblebee joined #minetest
19:34 swift110 thats why I said i can advertise it for sure. I want to get more people playing minetest but the problem is that it is considered inferior to the minecraft experience
19:34 Taose lmfao kaeza
19:35 swift110 Im unique because I dont play minetest
19:35 Taose I don't and never have played minecraft.
19:35 swift110 but I was thinking of getting it and comparing the two although its true there are others that already have
19:35 swift110 Taose, well its good to know what else is out there to know how to improve what we have
19:35 red-001 <swift110> Im unique because I dont play minetest
19:35 red-001 did you mean minecraft?
19:36 swift110 red-001, im unique becase I dont play minecraft
19:36 Taose there we go
19:36 swift110 minecraft seems to be something a child can pick up and just play.  We need to make minetest the same way
19:37 swift110 People will not play something unless they enjoy it.
19:37 Pie-jacker875 it is already simple
19:37 Taose ^
19:38 Taose Well
19:38 Taose >.>
19:38 Taose some of the mods can be tricky to find out which ones you want and which ones you don't...
19:38 Pie-jacker875 so play online
19:38 Taose That
19:38 Taose means socializing
19:38 Pie-jacker875 lol
19:39 swift110 Taose, maybe I am just slow. Maybe I am annoyed that installing the tutorial mode is such a hassle.
19:39 red-001 lol
19:39 Taose O_o we have a tutorial mode!?
19:39 Calinou swift110: well, I was playing on a public Minecraft server yesterday, and it baffles me how the kids there have no idea what's property
19:39 Pie-jacker875 private servers are best
19:39 Calinou I tpahere'd someone and they started destroying stuff randomly
19:39 Calinou then saying "sorry" when I asked them not to
19:40 Calinou thankfully I claimed my build
19:40 polypodiales anyone know any private servers where I can join?
19:40 Pie-jacker875 people steal and grief on public minetest too
19:40 red-001 really minetest doesn't really have anything that makes it stand out
19:40 Calinou here I'm not sure if it's incompetence or malice
19:40 Pie-jacker875 malice mostly
19:40 Pie-jacker875 the internet is full of pricks
19:41 red-001 It just looks like a worse and cheaper version of minecraft to most people that find it
19:41 * mystik 's 4yo plays MT.  (and MC).  sometimes they she randomly hit players, since she cannot yet read ...
19:41 Taose It's not exactly a funded project...
19:41 Calinou Pie-jacker875: well Minecraft has a lot of kids
19:41 Taose and "looks" is a matter of which texture pack you installed.
19:41 Pie-jacker875 kids are pricks
19:41 Calinou some will play it like they play GTA, I guess
19:41 Calinou :P
19:42 Pie-jacker875 also there's this thing in the US called COPPA
19:42 Calinou wasn't it abolished?
19:42 Pie-jacker875 idk
19:42 Calinou either way, people totally forgot about it now
19:42 Pie-jacker875 yeah, well stop forgetting about it
19:43 mystik it's still in effect somehow -- a lot of services don't let under 13yo's join.  but, keep in mind, when it was passed, public commercial internet access was only like 10-12 years old too :)
19:43 Pie-jacker875 even if it's not a thing anymore it's good to enforce something like that just to filter out people who are jerks
19:43 red-001 minetest has to prove to people it's not just an inferior version of minecraft
19:44 Pie-jacker875 it was passed in 1998
19:44 Taose But...it is Red.
19:44 Taose That's kinda the whole point of minetest.
19:45 dzho https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Childr​en%27s_Online_Privacy_Protection_Act <-- definitely a thing
19:45 mystik Pie-jacker875:  Arpanet allowed private commercial access in 89/90, so only 8 years old :)
19:45 red-001 and making mod really easy to install will help with that
19:45 polypodiales a mod menu like in ppsspp would be awesome
19:45 polypodiales but the devs already know that
19:45 Taose mods are stupidly easy to install.
19:46 Taose Download the mod zip
19:46 Pie-jacker875 ^
19:46 red-001 otherwise you will only get people unwilling to play for minecraft and the opensource crowd
19:46 Taose Unzip in the mod directory
19:46 polypodiales nah, it's not easy enough for retards
19:46 Taose configure game > enable mod
19:46 red-001 get all the dependences
19:46 polypodiales they just need to have a menu in their game where mods are displayed and it downloads and installs then with the click of a button
19:46 mystik MT can shine by keeping mods in github and/or easy to obtain, vs MC's "go to this sketchy site, and pick the download button that doesn't install malware"
19:46 red-001 figure out why it keeps crashing
19:46 Taose ...minetest rarely crashes
19:47 Taose What version are you using?
19:47 Calinou mystik: these days installing Minecraft mods is easy, and doesn't require going to sketchy sites
19:47 Taose (I've not had a crash yet)
19:47 red-001 well you are lucky
19:47 mystik Calinou: good :)  that's a relief at least.
19:47 Pie-jacker875 minecraft mods were annoying when I played it
19:47 red-001 or maybe I'm unlucky
19:47 Calinou but ad-sponsored sites are still rampant
19:47 Calinou so you want an ad blocker
19:48 Taose no serious red, what version?
19:48 Taose and where did you download it from?
19:48 red-001 well usually pretty close to latest dev
19:48 red-001 but building anything on windows is a pain
19:49 Taose so scrap windows and install linux.
19:49 red-001 no thanks
19:49 rdococ seriously, do it.
19:49 Taose ^
19:49 red-001 I prefer an os that accualy works
19:49 rdococ sorry, since when did linux not work?
19:49 Taose >.> you've never tried Ubuntu have you
19:49 polypodiales install linux
19:49 red-001 I did
19:49 rdococ I use Debian and it's fine.
19:49 Pie-jacker875 windows doesn't work
19:49 * Taose feels at home
19:49 red-001 many times
19:49 polypodiales try to compile an android build on windows
19:49 red-001 two graphics cards
19:50 Taose ?
19:50 Pie-jacker875 why did you build a PC with two graphics cards?
19:50 Calinou laptops, Pie-jacker875
19:50 Pie-jacker875 lol
19:50 red-001 not at the same time
19:50 red-001 lol
19:50 Pie-jacker875 >trying to play games on a laptop
19:50 Calinou Pie-jacker875: why not? it's relatively viable today
19:50 red-001 linux just seems horrible and graphics card support
19:51 Pie-jacker875 I find laptops to be generally unpleasant
19:51 Calinou (if you don't care too much about battery life and portability)
19:51 Taose Just put ubuntu or mint or debian or whatever flavour you like (go hardcore, go arch). As long as you keep it updated you'll be fine.
19:51 red-001 and = at
19:51 Calinou well they're a necessity
19:51 Pie-jacker875 unless you're actually moving about
19:51 Calinou Pie-jacker875: in fact I bought a laptop this week :p
19:51 PsychoVision joined #minetest
19:51 Taose As for graphic card support, I run an Radeon R9, it's got great support.
19:51 Pie-jacker875 in which case if you are moving about you should probably be doing work rather than playing games
19:51 red-001 really I would love to use linux
19:51 red-001 but that seems to be out of the question
19:52 Taose You're just making life difficult for yourself.
19:52 Calinou Pie-jacker875: yeah gaming laptops aren't great for moving
19:52 Pie-jacker875 and laptops are unpleasant if you're not moving about
19:53 Calinou well, you can plug a laptop to a docking station, or to a monitor
19:53 Taose >.>
19:53 Pie-jacker875 but you still have to deal with the shitty chicklet keyboard and trackpad, unless you bring your keyboard and mouse around with you too
19:53 polypodiales red-001: which graphics card exactly
19:53 Calinou well using a mouse with a laptop is commonplace, keyboard not so much
19:53 Pie-jacker875 rubber domes and scissor switches are unpleasant
19:54 * Taose looks at Calinou
19:54 Taose wut
19:54 mystik red-001: If MSFT releases an X11 server with openGL access, then you'll be all set w/ the linux subsystem :)
19:54 Calinou Taose: also, input devices of laptops have improved quite a bit recently
19:54 Calinou or at least it seems
19:54 red-001 can't remeber right now but they fairly low-end ones
19:54 polypodiales amd or nvidia or intel
19:54 Taose But they don't come with keyboards? What happened?
19:54 red-001 one from navida one from amd
19:54 polypodiales in amd you install the open source driver and in nvidia you install the proprietary one
19:54 Calinou that's not possible red-001, there is no "AMVIDIA" settings in laptops
19:55 red-001 ehh
19:55 Calinou (AMD CPU/NVIDIA GPU)
19:55 Taose Amd always have great support with linux, just make sure to install the proprietary drivers if you want to game with it.
19:55 red-001 when did I say this is a laptop?
19:55 Calinou Taose: the proprietary drivers are no longer maintained for AMD...
19:55 Taose >.> yet they still work
19:55 Taose and work well.
19:55 Pie-jacker875 correction, the old proprietary drivers
19:55 polypodiales use AMDGPU or radeon instead
19:56 Pie-jacker875 amdgpu-pro exists now
19:56 Calinou Taose: do they work on any recent distro?
19:56 Pie-jacker875 no
19:56 Taose ...I'm pretty sure I'm using them on Ubuntu 16.04
19:56 Calinou that's not quite recent but well
19:56 polypodiales Taose: which graphics card are you using
19:57 Taose Radeon R9 200x
19:57 Pie-jacker875 frglx or whatever it's called isn't in the repos of ubuntu 16.04
19:57 polypodiales Taose: you should switch to amdgpu
19:57 Pie-jacker875 do you mean 290X?
19:57 Taose that's the one
19:57 Pie-jacker875 or 270X or 280X
19:58 polypodiales https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/AMDGPU
19:59 Pie-jacker875 if you're running ubuntu 16.04 and have a 290X you're most likely running the radeon free drivers right now
19:59 Calinou if you want decent performance with an open source driver, you pretty much need to use a rolling-release distribution, sometimes even pulling kernel or Mesa from Git
19:59 Pie-jacker875 and mesa
19:59 Taose Actually quite possible... I had to reinstall not so long back due to INTELLIJ WRECKING MY OS.
19:59 polypodiales I think Pie-jacker875 is correct
19:59 Calinou lol, you must be installing IntelliJ really wrong then :P
20:00 Taose (and hence I'm here, not in Terasology)
20:00 Pie-jacker875 to run amdgpu you'll need a kernel that has CIK support enabled
20:00 Pie-jacker875 I run a R9 390, I went through a bunch of shit to get it working
20:00 Taose @Calinou, I followed the instructions and watched it do silly things that it wasn't allowed to do.
20:01 Calinou here, GTX 1080 works just fine with NVIDIA blob on Linux, but I typically use Windows anyway :p
20:01 Pie-jacker875 I've heard nvidia support has been faltering a little lately
20:01 Calinou with Nouveau the cursor gets stuck in the top-left and there's no 3D acceleration :D
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21:24 MinetestBot [git] paramat -> minetest/minetest: Map generation limit: Cache as 'const' not 'const static' 8c1b4f2 https://git.io/vMWB6 (2017-01-08T21:18:11Z)
21:24 MinetestBot [git] paramat -> minetest/minetest: Map generation limit: Fix checks for block/sector over-limit ddcf842 https://git.io/vMWBi (2017-01-08T21:18:11Z)
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22:25 MinetestBot [git] zeuner -> minetest/minetestmapper: PostgreSQL database support af502f3 https://git.io/vMWEc (2017-01-08T22:24:09Z)
22:26 red-001 well there goes another db
22:26 red-001 I wonder will someone write a custom one for minetest at some point
22:27 agaran probably or use some specialized databases for storing things not general SQL
22:27 agaran ones which deal better with binary blobs than sqlite..
22:27 red-001 yeah I'm not really sure having this mean DB's is accually doing minetest an favours
22:28 sfan5 agaran: you mean like leveldb
22:28 agaran sfan5: yup, or even berkley db..
22:28 red-001 many*
22:28 agaran both are happy with binary blobs
22:28 agaran (leveldb has woes.. we routinely have leveldb-repair running at work stuff..)
22:29 red-001 so why is sqlite the default?
22:29 agaran sfan5: we use ceph stuff which internally uses leveldb.. heavilly..
22:29 agaran 20-30GB leveldb is not uncommon..
22:29 MinetestBot [git] sfan5 -> minetest/minetestmapper: Update README (postgresql support) bc7d81e https://git.io/vMWEr (2017-01-08T22:27:45Z)
22:29 behalebabo Is the replacements parameter to place_schematic supposed to remain the same between calls on the same schematic for some reason?
22:30 behalebabo and if so, is there any way to get the dimensions of a schematic file from within a mod without parsing it myself?
22:30 sfan5 i don't think so
22:30 sfan5 and nope
22:31 sfan5 behalebabo: it's not hard though: you open the file, skip 6 bytes and read a 16-bit integer in network byte order three times
22:31 sfan5 those are your dimensions
22:32 behalebabo ok, thanks
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23:18 KikaRz Hey there, I'm having problems on cross-compiling Minetest to Windows on Linux.
23:19 kaeza what kind of problems?
23:20 KikaRz Could not find toolchain file: /home/drakz/toolchain_mingw.cmake
23:22 KikaRz (it is my first time trying to cross-compile, as compiling directly in the Windows system is a bit more complicated.
23:23 kaeza this page has nice info about that: http://www.vtk.org/Wiki/CmakeMingw
23:24 kaeza isn't there a tool to automate that, BTW?
23:24 kaeza util/buildbot/
23:25 est yeah, travis runs mingw cross builds afaik
23:25 KikaRz I'm using Buildbot
23:27 kaeza how are you running it?
23:28 KikaRz https://github.com/minetest/min​etest/tree/master/util/buildbot
23:28 KikaRz oh, there is toolchain.
23:28 kaeza yeah, buildbot takes care of everything
23:28 kaeza or should
23:29 KikaRz it should, but... meh
23:30 KikaRz How to cross-compile properly... http://i.imgur.com/9DKGInV.png
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23:31 KikaRz so, I have to install mingw-w64-gcc and mingw-w64-g++?
23:32 kaeza ...
23:32 KikaRz Sorry sir, it isn't explicit on the VTK's Wiki.
23:33 kaeza http://www.vtk.org/Wiki/CmakeMingw#Inst​all_the_mingw_cross_compiling_toolchain
23:33 kaeza it's right there
23:34 kaeza for win64 it's something else, sure
23:34 KikaRz I don't use Ubuntu/Debian e.e
23:34 kaeza adapt to your package manager then :)
23:35 KikaRz Already compiling.
23:37 KikaRz Just sorry kaeza, I'm trying to adapt myself without having Linux as my main system.
23:38 kaeza wait... you are crosscompiling for Windows inside a Linux VM? O.o
23:38 KikaRz Yep.
23:39 kaeza ...a Linux VM in a Windows host :I
23:39 kaeza why not get native mingw and build it directly?
23:40 KikaRz '--'
23:40 KikaRz http://i.imgur.com/qaGexyU.png
23:40 kaeza or MSVC or whatever that's called these days
23:40 KikaRz It didn't compiled successfully :|
23:41 kaeza I would just disable LevelDB for now
23:41 kaeza cd $builddir && cmake -DENABLE_LEVELDB=0
23:41 kaeza && make
23:43 kaeza probably some problems with C++ name mangling or something
23:44 KikaRz okay
23:44 DuCake joined #minetest
23:44 KikaRz I'm already installing MinGW for Windows.
23:45 KikaRz I just went on a Linux VM because it has Buildbot kk ._.
23:47 kaeza I didn't get to compile leveldb under mingw, and you will probably have the same issue as the linux VM
23:47 kaeza you will also probably need to compile Irrlicht yourself
23:50 KikaRz 1.8.1, 1.8 or 1.7.3?
23:51 kaeza latest you find in the 1.8 series
23:56 KikaRz Libidn 2.0.9? There is only Libidn 1.33 '-'

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