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IRC log for #minetest, 2015-08-08

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:00 Sketch2 they say Tegra has it built in
00:00 Sketch2 so it might be hella-faster on Tegra based Androids
00:12 est31 interesting, seems I've lost all my local git branches due to migration
00:13 est31 well, I have backups, so i just have to copy it over
00:14 est31 Sketch2, if you have any other idea for 3d compression, which works better than gzip, please mention it
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01:40 aerth VanessaE: would you enable fancyindexing so ppl can sort your minetest directories by date
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01:47 VanessaE aerth: not supported in my copy of nginx.
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01:50 VanessaE looks like it needs a plugin *researches*
01:52 VanessaE interesting.  the plugin depends on lua5.1 and luajit.  heh
01:52 VanessaE and/or*
01:57 VanessaE nope.  not supported at all.  fuck it.
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01:59 aerth :D
01:59 diemartin greetings
01:59 VanessaE hey
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02:02 VanessaE there we go.
02:03 VanessaE aerth: better?
02:04 aerth dude
02:04 VanessaE (had to explicitly ask for the 1.6.x version of nginx, it kept wanting to install 1.2.x by default)
02:04 aerth epic .
02:05 aerth +1 for using nginx
02:06 Inocudom It really is a shame that oOChainLynxOo now does videos for Steam applications and no longer for Minetest.
02:07 Inocudom But hey, maybe he will do some for Splatoon sometime. He does have a Wii U, I think. Of course, he will have to follow Nintendo's rules regarding such things.
02:12 Inocudom I swear that my graphics card, GeForce GT 610, is only as powerful as the Nintendo 64. My computer would have to go as far back as 1998 to be top of the line, it seems.
02:13 Inocudom A top of the line 2005 PC would probably be way more powerful than what I have, and that was back then.
02:18 Hirato we lol
02:19 Hirato I don't know why nvidia even produces those ultra-weak ones that are barely powerful enough to scroll a web-page smoothly
02:19 Hirato see that second number, the '1' - You really want a least a 6 in there if you intend to play any games
02:23 Inocudom Yeah, but it is too late to get a better graphics card now. Austerity is the way of the future, you see. No force in the universe will change that.
02:24 Hirato it's a stupid trend
02:26 Inocudom It meant to be a trend, too. Will of the gods, some might say. You know who I mean by the gods, don't you. My mom tells me not to call them that, but what Alan Watt says about them warrants that title through and through.
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02:39 Inocudom What do you know and understand about polygons vs. voxel octrees, RealBadAngel? I heard that there is a sizeable difference in fps, and Cube 2 Sauerbraten proves this.
02:39 Inocudom That engine is the only one that I can run occlusion mapping in without any serious reprocussions.
02:39 RealBadAngel idk what voxel octrees are
02:40 Inocudom RealBadAngel: Voxel octrees are what the Cube 2 Sauerbraten engine is based on. Same with Red Eclipse, Tesseract, and Revelade Revolution.
02:41 RealBadAngel but that sounds like different engine
02:41 RealBadAngel and thats NOT EASY
02:43 Inocudom Here, watch the following videos: https://youtu.be/fGMu5kDNKU8  https://youtu.be/OC_U0HYKjQE
02:44 Inocudom No. its not. If it was, Nindendo would have done it in their games by now. They are supposed to be inovative, right?
02:45 Inocudom Of course, Nintendo, just like any other company, has to keep power in check, so to speak.
02:47 Inocudom Just to let everybody in the Minetest community know, Minetest's engine is based on polygons, just like Minecraft's is. I believe that is true of Manic Digger and Terasology is well.
02:48 aerth i like https://calinou.github.io/mwc/
02:48 Inocudom As I have said before, polygons will never truly be made obsolete, for reasons ranging from control to convenience.
02:51 VanessaE horseshit.
02:52 VanessaE if something comes along that's better in enough ways that polygon-based geometry can't compete anymore, manufacturers will switch eventually.
02:53 Inocudom aerth: Is that to be the new website for Minetest?
02:54 Inocudom You know, darkrose found a way to optimise meshes in her Voxelands game. You would have to ask permission before you could use her code, of course (just like with Freeminer.) I don't need to explain why, I assume?
02:56 VanessaE her game is based on 0.3.x, so it doesn't matter anywya
02:56 VanessaE anyway*
02:56 luizrpgluiz It would be great if launches first new version of the first game and then make the new site
02:57 Hirato lol
02:57 Hirato cube uses an octree to store the world geometry and structure
02:57 Hirato it still converts them to regular old polygons in the end
02:59 RealBadAngel we still have an ace to use, VBO. it doubles the fps
03:00 VanessaE RealBadAngel: good luck getting that pushed through.
03:00 Hirato how come?
03:01 aerth Inocudom: i hope so
03:03 freelikegnu VanessaE: I posted a pull request to humbly make bronze crafting less cringe inducing in minetest-game
03:03 VanessaE how so?
03:03 freelikegnu https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/pull/615
03:04 freelikegnu bronze is made from copper directly and bronze items are nerft between stone and steel
03:04 VanessaE eh, I'm gonna guess that that won't be merged, freelikegnu.
03:04 VanessaE too drastic of a change
03:05 freelikegnu what would you suggest as an alternative?
03:05 VanessaE there's only one:  add tin to the game and craft 2 tin + 1 copper -> 3 bronze
03:06 VanessaE or whatever the correct ratio is.
03:06 VanessaE (I think moreores uses 1+1 -> 2)
03:06 Hirato for minetest game, they really should just merge a bunch of mods in and them mold it into something resembling a game
03:06 freelikegnu I would prefer that to, but it would seem to ask more that an ore type be put in
03:07 freelikegnu Hirato, I like the minimality of minetest-game for what it is... I would'nt ming seeing more games added tho
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03:09 freelikegnu also would bronze still be an upgrade to steel?
03:10 Hirato if you look at history there was a bronze age and no steel age, so therefor bronze is clearly better ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
03:11 freelikegnu and to compliment bronze as an alloy, steel should likewise require carbon (ash?)
03:11 VanessaE coal..
03:11 VanessaE if you must.
03:12 VanessaE or black dye, which is basically coal dust
03:12 freelikegnu Hirato: well put sir, in that case, make diamond items about the quality of its breten stone.
03:12 Hirato hahaha
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03:14 * freelikegnu secretly wishes to wield magical glass tools and weapons
03:14 aerth obsidian tools are old school technology
03:15 freelikegnu guess thats not much of secret now, is it
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03:15 Hirato Empire Earth ended with the space age, so at the end we need to be clubbing each other with vacuums
03:16 Hirato assuming it's a pvp server :p
03:18 VanessaE bbl
03:19 Sketch2 what is this "there was no steel age" BS?  it was called the "iron age"
03:20 Hirato well damn, there goes my stupid joke
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03:27 freelikegnu I guess we are still waiting for the funny age
03:27 freelikegnu or has it passed and I missed all the really good jokes
03:29 Sketch2 you wanna know what's a funny age?  3
03:29 freelikegnu its funny even after having 3 kids
03:30 freelikegnu then 4 comes along...
03:32 Sketch2 and it sorta goes downhill from there
03:33 Sketch2 until some 1 drinks, then they regain that inner 3 year old
03:35 Sketch2 I dunno if regain is the word I was looking for, but revert to
03:36 Sketch2 woblly-toddler movement, blurred speech, no sense of direction
03:37 Sketch2 do they make any mods that do stuff like that to you?
03:37 freelikegnu just reinforces my belief that kids are like drunken unemployed roomates that are somehow too cute to kick out of the house
03:38 freelikegnu I've not seen any druken mods and such
03:38 Sketch2 I know there's poisonous meze
03:39 Sketch2 there should be a mod that had ill effects on the player, like stumble effects, blurred vision, halucinatory visuals
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03:43 freelikegnu especially if induced by blunt objects
03:44 freelikegnu or fermented beverages
03:44 freelikegnu or fermented meats
03:44 Sketch2 oh, was imagining the mushroom mod being involved somehow
03:45 Sketch2 femented meat?  is that a thing?
03:47 freelikegnu https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surstr%C3%B6mming
03:52 aerth Sketch2: that would help my cannabis mod
03:52 aerth right now its healing
03:53 Sketch2 it can def' go either way
03:56 Sketch2 wonder how you'd go about making that happen
03:56 Sketch2 dunno that it's do-able as is
03:56 Sketch2 I'm thinkng massive view-bob, maybe making controls reverse for a second every once in a while
03:57 Sketch2 maybe a couple alpha-transparent dots that blend over portions of the screen
03:58 Sketch2 all should be easy enough to accomplish, but most likely not able to be done straight through a mod at this time
03:58 Sketch2 danger can really amp up the game tho, so I might look into this
04:23 Inocudom Bye.
04:30 aerth CLI utility for building minetest and installing subgames/mods: https://github.com/miningxyz/minetest-servit.git
04:30 aerth WIP but works
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04:32 aerth suggestions welcome
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06:08 Sketch2 aerth, you still up?
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06:20 Krock Sketch2, I think that's a nope.
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06:21 Sketch2 eh, I left him a note on his github.
06:21 Sketch2 was just saying you don't need to ask how many processors are on the computer
06:22 Sketch2 can just do:    make -j$(grep -c processor /proc/cpuinfo)
06:23 Sketch2 and it'll figure out the core count for you
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06:25 est procfs doesnt exist on bsd i think
06:26 Sketch2 oh?  hmm, well he said it was fine with debian distros, and that's what I run
06:26 est its fine for linux yes
06:26 est but e.g. if you run it on a mac, it will fail
06:27 Sketch2 well, you can test for that sort of thing before it gets to that point, if need be
06:28 Sketch2 he'd prolly need a patch for that because I'm imagining he doen't have access to, otherwise he'd-a programmed it in
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06:29 Sketch2 do we have many mac servers running?
06:29 est crazyR, something is wrong with your umask btw
06:29 est Sketch2, doubt it
06:30 aerth Sketch2: wasup
06:30 est this seems to be the cross platform way to do it: http://stackoverflow.com/a/1006337/4127504
06:30 Sketch2 oh, was trying to simplify your script
06:31 aerth wesome!
06:31 Sketch2 it can auto-check for processor count
06:32 aerth perfect
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06:34 aerth i dont know how but im trying to have default parameters for things like the game repo and subgame repo
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06:34 aerth also a dropdown menu for different popular subgames and mods but i  only know how to do character entry
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06:41 aerth thank you Sketch2 im adding that in (with a debian detection line)
06:41 Krock Sketch2, who would waste a mac computer to host a server?
06:41 aerth Krock: wheres your CLI thing can i see it
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06:41 Krock "CLI thing?!
06:42 aerth was it you that had a command line mod
06:42 Krock ehm no
06:43 Krock aerth, Do you mean the external_cmd mod?
06:43 aerth yes
06:43 Krock !mod external_cmd
06:43 MinetestBot Krock: External Commands [external_cmd] by Menche - https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=3924
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06:44 aerth maybe not. sounds old
06:44 Krock old != doesn't work
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06:45 aerth i mean someone was talking about something they were working on within the last week
06:46 Sketch2 I wonder if you can have it   ls   the minetest/games dir so you can see what games are installed
06:46 Krock if you search the something that the someone maybe was working on, then look at the IRC logs
06:47 * aerth is doing that slowly with a tin modem
06:47 Sketch2 when it asks what game dir to install to
06:47 aerth just minetest_game or carbone-ng
06:47 Sketch2 there's more than that nowadays
06:47 aerth yes
06:47 Sketch2 skyblock, hunger games...
06:48 aerth an ls sounds great
06:49 aerth i think a BASEPATH if crucial
06:49 aerth but a .db file can store info like paths and game / mods installed
06:50 Sketch2 oh, if you want to do all that, I guess.  wasn't thinking anything that fancy
06:51 Sketch2 I'd just ls with only dirs shown, no extraneous files
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06:56 aerth config at the top. one file. i like
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06:59 Sketch2 yeah, but you'd still need to update the config file, essentially by doing something like   ls -d */
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07:08 Sketch2 horribly tired.  can't sleep yet.  wonders if you'll run into naming conventions being an issue
07:08 Sketch2 because many mods have 'name of author' and 'master' in the title as well
07:10 aerth and the whole renaming minetest-modname to modname
07:12 CraigyDavi We should store the mod name in mod.conf and completely ignore the name of the folder
07:14 Sketch2 can't say if that's an ideal solution, but it might do
07:16 aerth can one arbitrarily rename all the mods directory name in the mods folder and expect everything to work?
07:17 Sketch2 another way might be to use regex to find   minetest-  and remove that
07:17 Sketch2 plus have a list of known authors, so it can regex them out as well
07:18 Sketch2 minetest doesn't really care about the names of the dirs
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07:18 Sketch2 so long as the structure contained within all fits with the programming of the init file
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07:19 amadin Hi to all, how to disable sneak on server for players?
07:20 Sketch2 so yea, what Davi says should technically be ok, but it might mess things up if you have multiple versions
07:20 Sketch2 disable sneak?  why would you do that
07:21 amadin Because players use a bug braking in the fall in a narrow vertical shaft if the shaft has grooves. And they can dig diamonds after 15-30 minutes of first time playing.
07:21 Sketch2 set your crouch speed to the same as the walk speed, perhaps?
07:22 Sketch2 movement_speed_crouch = 4
07:22 amadin ok i will try now
07:22 Sketch2 don't know if that will solve it, but it's worth a try
07:23 Sketch2 or even set it faster, like 500 so if they try to crouch, they die
07:24 est amadin, you can dig diamonds with vertical shafts too
07:24 est just mine them down
07:25 est I don't think there is a "disable sneak" feature
07:25 Sketch2 well, if it's set tot he same speed it won't slow them down
07:26 Sketch2 so it may stifle their attempts
07:27 est it doesnt work that way
07:27 amadin it's not help
07:27 Sketch2 oh, 'cuz it still hangs on edges
07:28 est yea
07:30 amadin sneak button don't just sneak if you falling - it stoping falling finally
07:31 amadin so i fink it's bug because it must sneak but not stop player
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07:31 est or a feature
07:31 est people complain because sneaking doesnt hide their name
07:31 Sketch2 it sure benefits those diamond hunters
07:31 est so here we are "harder"
07:31 est but we make falls softer with it
07:32 Sketch2 "sneak doesn't hide their name" lmao how great is that
07:32 est it does hide it in minecraft i think
07:33 Sketch2 people trying to be ninjas in minetest
07:33 amadin so nobody can help me?
07:33 Sketch2 does it?  man I never played that game
07:33 est there is quite a crowd who regard any difference between minetest and minecraft as missing feature on the minetest side
07:33 est me neither
07:34 est but I've learned quite alot about it, by being dev for a similar game in the gerne
07:34 Sketch2 I think they are all idiots, and if they had any talent, they'd be on our side
07:35 est amadin, if you want to make your game harder, you can make diamonds appear deeper down
07:36 est also, I dont think those people play minetest the first time
07:38 Sketch2 or mod the code for the diamond so it's only diggable by players that have been on for more than a few days
07:41 est or, better idea, make tools more progressive
07:41 est e.g. you need to make a steel pick first
07:41 est then mine obsidian with it
07:42 est only with the obsidian pick it will be possible to mine the diamond
07:42 amadin i mean firs time on my server
07:43 est also note that even without using the shift feature people can make vertical shafts
07:43 est 1. you get down while mining, this always works
07:43 est 2. ladders
07:43 est 3. water
07:43 est both slow your fall
07:43 Sketch2 ropes
07:44 Sketch2 dropping sand
07:44 Sketch2 or gravel
07:44 est ?
07:44 e1z0 :O
07:44 e1z0 eikit miegot
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08:19 Calinou https://letsencrypt.org//2015/08/07/upd​ated-lets-encrypt-launch-schedule.html - they delayed it :/
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09:33 cornernote hey guys
09:33 cornernote anyone around from last night when we were talking package managers ?
09:35 cornernote i made a start, it still needs more work, but its a functional starting point... https://minetest-bower.herokuapp.com/
09:35 cornernote you can register packages
09:36 cornernote and you can then install them, things like dependancies work
09:45 Krock cornernote, SELECT count(*) FROM `modindex` WHERE link LIKE "%github.com%"; returns 653, so ask me if you need some to start with :P
09:51 cornernote Krock, yes please, can you dump me a list ?
09:52 cornernote i just need a csv with name,url
10:00 cornernote added a logo, im not much good with graphics so i just stole/merged the minetest and bower icons, so if anyone would like to do better then i'm open to it
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10:21 MinetestBot Jordach: 08-07 15:43 UTC <rubenwardy> https://github.com/rubenwardy/waterplus
10:21 cornernote thanks Krock, sorry by name i ment mod name
10:22 cornernote eg: boost_cart,https://github.com/SmallJoker/boost_cart
10:22 Krock uh, this is getting difficult
10:22 cornernote i can just use the repo name
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10:23 cornernote but some may break, eg if they have "-" in the name, and no modpack.txt
10:24 cornernote eg: https://github.com/Splizard/minetest-mod-snow
10:24 cornernote i guess i can just convert - to _
10:25 cornernote i think this list will do
10:26 cornernote i have to convert the github link to an endpoint url anyway (ie: git://github.com/user/example.git)
10:34 Krock Uhm okay. I hope the links are helpful for you
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11:01 cornernote yes, they are very helpful
11:01 cornernote thank you
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11:14 adicto1 hello world
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11:15 xenkey hello world
11:17 bas080 trying out some cmd line irc clients
11:17 bas080 They are looking good
11:17 xenkey well of course they are
11:19 bas080 xenkey You know it!
11:23 Krock world, hello
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11:24 Krock bas080, why CLI IRC clients? Are there even features like auto-authentification?
11:25 Calinou they can run without X
11:25 Calinou useful to run them on a server
11:26 Krock Calinou, yeah but not for daily use
11:28 bas080 Krock: i assume you mean logging in to your acount automatically. This weechat has it I think.
11:28 ekem weechat is the best client out there
11:28 Krock bas080, yes, that's what I meant
11:28 ekem there is no reason to use a gui client really
11:28 xenkey Are you all high
11:28 ekem unless you want fewer features
11:29 xenkey Except ekem
11:29 xenkey You know what's up
11:29 xenkey Also Krock yes there are
11:29 * ekem wishes they were high :(
11:29 xenkey Every decent client has them
11:29 ekem also xenkey: millenials :P
11:29 xenkey say what
11:29 xenkey http://www.pewresearch.org/topics/millennials/
11:30 Krock xenkey, so high, almost getting acrophobia
11:30 ekem https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CE-rBtIXIAEw9V2.jpg
11:30 xenkey lol
11:36 bas080 xenkey: Millenials are payed less then the previous generation. Why is that?
11:37 ekem because the economy is top rekt
11:38 ekem and they jump jobs quicker, fewer of them just work for one company throughout their life
11:38 Hirato all Tony Abbott's fault
11:38 ekem also increased education competition
11:38 bas080 ekem: you can see that more males are umemployed
11:38 ekem thats a new figure, be curious about that one
11:39 bas080 why?
11:39 ekem because ive never heard that
11:39 bas080 it's on the website you just shared
11:39 ekem its an interesting figure
11:39 ekem xenkey's share? ah ok ill look again
11:39 bas080 http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2015/03/19/com​paring-millennials-to-other-generations/#!11
11:39 ekem thanks
11:40 bas080 it's like double the amount!
11:41 bas080 sorry
11:41 ekem males are finally ready for women to be the bread winners
11:41 bas080 i meant double the ....
11:41 bas080 I'm not sure how to say it
11:41 bas080 ekem: i'm fine with that
11:42 bas080 ekem: i can get my own beer and make my own sandwich
11:42 ekem yeah, ive only had women from korean families ever serve me anything
11:42 Cryterion_ cornernote are you around?
11:42 ekem my mind was fucking blown
11:43 ekem like, you want to ladle soup into my bowl? holy... thanks!
11:43 bas080 the relative amounnt of umeployed persons in the previous generation is double in the millenials generation
11:43 ekem yeah, and that doesnt even count those who have given up looking for work
11:43 ekem which is an astonishing number that the fed doesnt consider in unemployment. its usually just those out of work and looking for work
11:43 ekem if you are out of the labor force for x amount of months, you dont even get included in the numbers
11:44 bas080 ekem: that is weird
11:44 bas080 why exclude persons?
11:45 ekem part of it is the numbers for unemployment would be so miserable it would look terrible
11:45 ekem the other is, when you consider a labor pool, you dont want include those who arent wanting to be in the labor market
11:45 ekem but i think mainly its so the numbers arent jacked
11:46 bas080 ekem: how does one determine if someone does not want to be in the labor market?
11:47 ekem http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2015​/03/08/the-most-important-part-of-the-unempl​oyment-numbers-those-not-looking-for-work/
11:47 ekem it has to do with time not employed
11:47 ekem its x amount of months
11:47 ekem and then not applying for benefits
11:48 ekem that article says 33 percent of the population above 16 doesnt participate in the workforce
11:48 cornernote probably because the workforce are jerks
11:48 ekem http://www.epi.org/publication/missing-workers/
11:49 bas080 cornernote: that's not true. They are people
11:49 ekem yeah i left the workforce after 6 years in a trade
11:49 bas080 People are jerks too sometimes
11:49 ekem i said fuck it, ill get a degree or something
11:49 bas080 ekem: and then?
11:49 * ekem shrugs
11:49 ekem probably go to another country where its cheaper to live
11:49 ekem and do programming
11:49 cornernote get a degree in philosophy
11:49 ekem heh
11:49 ekem how did you know!
11:50 ekem im going to shoot for mathematics
11:50 bas080 ekem: what did you do?
11:50 bas080 wash dishes?
11:50 ekem i worked in aviation as a licensed mechanic
11:50 ekem i mean you make 100k a year
11:51 ekem but fuck man, what brutal work. and the owners of the machines make millions
11:51 ekem and you are exposed to all sorts of vicious chemicals
11:51 bas080 ekem: the world is not fair
11:51 ekem nope
11:51 ekem but fuck making someone else rich while you get to be a piece of meat
11:51 ekem id rather just not participate in that
11:52 bas080 ekem: if you don't want to be a piece of meat you shouldn't act like one
11:52 ekem in what way?
11:52 ekem the reality of wealth in the modern world is one of passed down wealth
11:52 bas080 like you said. id rather not participate
11:52 bas080 ekem: the world is not fair
11:52 ekem there is little chance for someone born into the working class, which includes the middle to have class mobility
11:53 ekem its certainly not, but i mean i can just choose to not be a wage slave
11:53 ekem i mean your bias is clearly heavy in this arena, and i understand
11:53 bas080 ekem: so if wealth is not obtainable threw money then you should fight for your rights.
11:53 ekem yeah, that really worked in the 20s, and then the 60s ;)
11:54 ekem any opposition to the concentration of wealth is met with vicious opposition
11:54 ekem better to just do your 80 years, if you have enough capital maybe pop out a copy of yourself
11:54 ekem and make sure you dont take up land with a grave plot
11:54 ekem we are all pretty fucked anyway when it comes to the planet
11:54 ekem there is probably only 1 maybe 2 generations of a decent life left for humans
11:55 bas080 ekem: oo well, it wasn't meant to last.
11:55 ekem the rate of declining biodiversity around the planet is indication enough of the damage being done, and what to expect on the path out
11:56 bas080 ekem: do you want it to last?
11:56 ekem agreed, but what has happened post industrial revolution is such a rapid decline in our ecosystem. its almost like 10k years of possible normal climate shift rolled into 10 years
11:56 ekem er 100
11:56 ekem i dont know, i only get 70 years. there is the potential for life to exist on the planet earth for something like another million or so
11:57 ekem but we seem to be wanting to only have bacteria kicking it here
11:57 ekem i should say "complex life" and not just life
11:58 ekem the point im trying to make is that weechat is the best irc client written to date
11:58 bas080 so what is complex life versus just life?
11:59 bas080 ekem: thnx for allowing me to give it a goo dtest run
12:00 ekem complex life is eurkaryotes
12:00 ekem usually with a significant mass
12:00 bas080 ekem: do you use scripts, configs or anythinh like that?
12:00 ekem yeah there are a few good ones like a channel sidebar
12:01 ekem but you dont need too many unless you want to do neat things, you can use a package manager to grab the most popular in pack
12:01 bas080 multi celular
12:01 ekem yeah, i mean a good portion of the earth's history was just prokaryotes, and thats all fine and dandy, but its cool to have plants and things
12:02 bas080 some people say that the oceans contain something that is comparable to a neural network
12:02 bas080 the thing is that it is really hard to prove that this intelligence has behaviour
12:03 bas080 or should i say that it has intlelligence
12:03 bas080 and how would you measure intelligence without behaviour
12:03 ekem modern science has no real way to describe what may be happening in the summation of all life on the planet
12:04 ekem and whether it suggests a higher concious
12:04 ekem it probably exists, but i cant really define that or imagine that without taking a bunch of acid
12:06 ekem i mean i have a dose in the freezer if you want to go there
12:06 bas080 ekem: do you believe that drugs enables one to perceive the world a more objective manner
12:07 ekem no, but it changes the nature of perception. by changing the nature of a humans perception it may enable insight into nuances not normally percieved
12:07 ekem and when back in a baseline mode of perception, offer insight
12:08 ekem if we accept the implication that there is more to reality than what is being percieved by our sense organs, and we change the manner in which we percieve the world, its not unthinkable that we glimpse a moment of truth
12:08 ekem its easily arguable that what we percieve in a baseline is nothing near the truth, so changing that percpetion can't be any worse
12:09 bas080 ekem: one could also change his perception by doing something one would not normally do. You don't need drugs
12:09 ekem agreed, but altering chemistry and adulterating the mechanisms themselves is something that cannot be accomplished by say just excercising or walking a different path home
12:10 bas080 ekem: i disagree
12:10 ekem i understand, but i would imagine you've never approached the doors of perception as huxley describes it
12:10 ekem so have not had that experience yet for yourself
12:11 ekem most of human history has been using ethneogenic substances in order to gain a better understanding of the world around them
12:12 ekem its really only up to a few thousand years ago, and the establishment of the church, or the patriarchy, and large top down societies that that use has been prohibitied
12:12 bas080 ekem: I think it is mostly fear that avoids one to perceive. When fearfull one sticks to the things that one knows that "work"
12:13 ekem its something close to platos shadows on the cave wall. you just cant really convince people of the insight or the change in perception unless they see it for themselves
12:13 * CWz is having a look at the fossil called corel linux
12:13 ekem im all for living a clean life, but there is a spiritual nature to existence that is denied in modern society
12:14 ekem and only suggested in the rituals that we enact
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12:15 bas080 ekem: however i agree that the infleunces of certain institutions have dictated many peoples experience. We now and always have lived in a world where the rules can be broken
12:15 ekem mmm id like to agree. but heck, even the potential of the network that is the internet has been diminished in the last 10 years
12:16 ekem the groups in control of resources on this planet are not giving up without a fight
12:16 ekem its pretty much degrading into television
12:17 ekem for instance, go to library website, they have digital copies of a book. but say they only have 3 copies to loan out
12:17 ekem how do you have 3 copies of a digital book?
12:17 ekem information on the net is being restricted to those with capital
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12:17 ekem copyright laws are making this happen
12:17 Calinou ekem> how do you have 3 copies of a digital book?
12:17 Calinou Ctrl+C Ctrl+V, Ctrl+C Ctrl+V
12:17 Calinou there you go
12:17 Calinou :)
12:17 ekem yea i agree
12:17 ekem thats what so mind blowing about it
12:18 ekem if you wanted to copy that book, you have to then fight the software distributing it
12:18 Krock Calinou, Ctrl+C Ctrl+V Ctrl+V should do the same..
12:18 bas080 ekem: They only hold the power because we collectivly agree to the worth of those resources.
12:18 ekem mmm sort of
12:19 ekem there was a big happening at the turn of the century which alludes to what is really going on
12:19 bas080 except for life support we are addicted to luxury
12:19 ekem and that was the integration of psycology into commerce
12:19 ekem essentialy the training of humans from birth to participate in labor and economies
12:19 ekem for what reason? i dont know, the destruction of the planet i guess
12:21 bas080 ekem: and is this collectivism not aided us to tackle some really big challenges. Let's say hunger or slavery
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12:22 ekem no
12:22 ekem if we look at the multiple thousand years that the americas existed before it was colonized
12:22 ekem the problems we face in the modern world really wasnt something they dealt with
12:22 ekem although there were groups that died out because of changing climates or resources diminishing, it wasnt on the scale we see now
12:23 bas080 ekem: I am not familiar with the cultures and the challanges they had back then. Sorry
12:23 ekem yeah modern anthropology and archeology has done some good work on it
12:23 ekem its pretty interesting
12:24 ekem for instance, south america and north america was all pretty much a well looked after piece of communal land
12:24 bas080 I do know that some big pre historic civilizations in the amaericas are no longer.
12:24 ekem in that the commons was simply that, the commons
12:24 ekem mainly because they were wiped out with the coming of the church
12:24 bas080 Partly because of europeans
12:24 bas080 but not mainly i think
12:24 ekem not partly
12:24 ekem mainly
12:25 bas080 I think climate had more infleunce
12:25 ekem estimations of populations before contact are in the range of 2.1 million to 18 million
12:25 bas080 and maybe disease
12:25 ekem brought by the colonizers
12:25 bas080 point
12:25 ekem it was something like 90% die off after contact
12:25 bas080 you might have a point
12:26 ekem its pretty trippy. I mean we are fed a certain line of reasoning that justifies our 'rule' over the americas
12:26 bas080 ekem: what is that justification?
12:26 ekem i mean the courts in the us still uphold teh bull papals by the church from the 15th century that said anyone not christian is not worth be alive
12:26 ekem being*
12:27 ekem that actually was used in court to defend the rule of the us government
12:27 ekem but we did just have the pope say what happened in the americas was a sin
12:27 ekem so, thats a plus i guess...
12:27 ekem well christian/catholic
12:28 bas080 ekem: no person has to justify it's own existence. But justifying your own exitence by claiming that others should die for it.
12:29 * Krock wonders what this all has to do with minetest
12:29 ekem papal bull, my bad
12:29 ekem https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inter_caetera
12:29 ekem yeah sorry krock
12:29 bas080 Krock: I'm gonna make a mod out of this conversation
12:30 ekem heh
12:30 Krock bas080, uhm okay. I just read some words like "church, infleunce, 90% die, christian/catholic" and that didn't sound like a mod :P
12:31 ekem start with wootz steel in india from 300bc and how it effected the eventual downfall of the americas
12:31 bas080 I could extend my pathogens mod to include the disease he spanish brought.
12:32 bas080 and then add the temples mod that spawn aztec piramides in the jungle
12:32 bas080 and the neural network mod that changes the oceans in a brain
12:35 ekem either way, thanks for the convo bas080 :P
12:35 * ekem tips fedora
12:36 * Calinou tips ubuntu
12:36 * sfan5 tips arch
12:37 Emperor_Genshin joined #minetest
12:39 * Krock tips win32
12:40 * ekem tips 15%
12:41 Krock George?
12:41 ThEDisasteR joined #minetest
12:41 Krock uhm.. no.
12:45 cornernote Krock, there were 650ish mods on github... i'm curious, how many in total ?
12:45 Krock cornernote, that's just the count of mods that were posted in the forums
12:45 Krock total mod count ias at ~3500
12:45 cornernote ok, you did a search of the forum db table ?
12:46 Krock oh well, my bot downloads each forum page, parses it and extracts the most important data. A direct DB connection would be somewhat helpful
12:47 cornernote i see
12:47 cornernote its an extract of your scrape
12:48 cornernote so not all of these are mods
12:48 cornernote some could be games, etc
12:48 Krock modpacks and old mods
12:49 cornernote im wondering if i should use it, or just let people register their own
12:50 cornernote but having an empty repo isnt going to be very persuasive to get others to follow
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14:18 Breballlove VanessaE
14:18 Breballlove OldCoder ?
14:24 Breballlove Krock
14:24 Krock I'm offline. Ask my secretary to leave a notice for him.
14:27 Krock jk
14:29 Breballlove can u help me get my server on the list what do u put in the config to put ur server on the list?
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14:30 Krock the default settings are fine
14:31 Krock just set "server_announce" to true or 1 to let the server send a request to the master server
14:35 Breballlove kk
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15:31 Krock freelikegnu: http://i.ytimg.com/vi/E2tA​2WgezFk/maxresdefault.jpg
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15:35 yaman how to split a string by spaces character and not any other character?
15:36 Krock mystring:split(" ")
15:47 freelikegnu Krock: that looks like a less than free gnu
15:48 Krock freelikegnu, that should be a joke...
15:48 freelikegnu :D
15:53 Breballlove krock on because lol what is the name of the invotory mod u have?
15:53 Krock !mod unified_in
15:53 MinetestBot Krock: Skins for unified_inventory [u_skins] by Krock - https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=9807
15:53 Krock no
15:53 Krock !mod [unified_inventory]
15:53 MinetestBot Krock: Unified Inventory [unified_inventory] by RealBadAngel - https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=3933
15:54 Breballlove no the icons of how to craft
15:54 Krock That's exactly that mod
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15:58 yaman how to get all items that are in a group?
15:59 Sketch2 such as   group:leaves
16:02 Krock for k,v in pairs(minetest.registered_nodes) do if v.groups["mygroup"] then ... end end
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16:17 kahrl s/registered_nodes/registered_items/
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16:25 Krock eh. yes
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16:45 freelikegnu hoes are wierd
16:45 freelikegnu weird even
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17:21 Sketch2 hoes?
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17:41 luizrpgluiz hi all
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17:43 hmmmm in lua, can I somehow hide extra fields in an array without making it into a table
17:44 hmmmm like I want foobar[i] to refer to a function, but I want foobar[i].foobaz to refer to some semi-hidden value for the sake of preserving an existing interface
17:44 hmmmm was thinking of storing all those extra things at foobar[i + 50000] or something but that sort of seems messy
17:46 Sketch2 yeah, offset data is an option.  how is your array seperated, commas?
17:48 Sketch2 you can't just make another array with the hidden values?
17:48 Sketch2 just keep them all lined up with the original data?
17:50 Sketch2 you say adding another column to your original array is outta the question though, right?
17:50 hmmmm right
17:50 hmmmm need mod compatibility
17:51 hmmmm what do you mean by how my array is separated
17:51 Sketch2 ahh
17:52 hmmmm see the thing about data offset is
17:52 hmmmm what if some mod reads the table by doing for foo in ipairs(thing)
17:52 hmmmm instead of for i = 1, #thing
17:53 Sketch2 yea
17:53 hmmmm thinking that i could add a metatable to return the primary value
17:53 hmmmm but that's way too complicated for something so simple
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17:54 Sketch2 so essentially duplicate the data, and refer to the original for regular calls, but use your new table with the added hidden values during special cases..?
17:56 Sketch2 that might be a bit much.  can you do a seperate array and feed those values in with your foobar[i].foobaz  procedure?
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17:57 hmmmm of course, but it's a lot more work too
18:26 freelikegnu learned a little about batch text and filename replacement today ^^
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18:29 Nitori huh
18:37 xenkey is there a way to monitor players active on the server and plot a nice graph?
18:40 VanessaE xenkey:  like this?
18:40 VanessaE http://digitalaudioconcepts.com/va​nessa/hobbies/minetest/stats.html
18:40 xenkey no i want it to be in pink
18:40 xenkey oh
18:40 xenkey it is
18:41 xenkey Yeah that's what I need
18:41 xenkey Maybe a bit less data on one view
18:41 VanessaE the player graph is generated from a combination of the "generate statistics graphs", "watchlogs", and "update player statistics" scripts in here: http://digitalaudioconcepts.com/vane​ssa/hobbies/minetest/Server-scripts/
18:42 VanessaE basically, the "watchlogs" script for a given server scrapes debug.txt to get player counts, which are then passed on to rrdtool,
18:42 xenkey Surely it's possible to pipe the logs into a matplotlib program and animate the plotting of points
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18:42 VanessaE the "generate" script draws the graph from the resulting data
18:42 xenkey Right
18:42 xenkey So It looks for "# has joined the game" messages in the log?
18:43 VanessaE close
18:43 VanessaE it looks for the "current players" list that follows all joins and parts
18:43 VanessaE makes a count of that
18:43 VanessaE and stores it in the rrd
18:43 xenkey ah, right
18:43 xenkey That's pretty easy to implement :P
18:43 luizrpgluiz left #minetest
18:44 VanessaE in the end it actually was pretty easy, with some help from stackoverflow and superuser :P
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19:14 bas080 say my name
19:15 bas080 left #minetest
19:16 bas080 joined #minetest
19:16 xenkey bas08: no
19:17 bas080 please
19:17 xenkey no
19:17 bas080 i'll say yours...
19:17 DMackey joined #minetest
19:17 xenkey okay
19:17 xenkey bas080:
19:17 bas080 xenkey:
19:18 xenkey yay
19:18 bas080 MinetestBot: who am i?
19:19 bas080 MinetestBot: say my name
19:19 bas080 ChanServ: mister chan! What are you doing here?
19:28 Krock bas080, MTB isn't CleverBot
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20:15 ppppppp O
20:15 ppppppp 0
20:21 freelikegnu VanessaE: what about replacement of bronze with gnucydur? (Glucydur is an alloy of copper and iron)
20:23 freelikegnu well copper iron and berrylium in RL, but...
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20:31 Krock freelikegnu, well, bronze is copper & tin
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20:41 rubenwardy !tell amadin It's supported in core already, but you need to set it using a Lua function, it's more flexible that way. I'm an old Minetester, and I think sneak elevators are awesome (admittedly a little unintuitive)
20:41 MinetestBot rubenwardy: yeah, sure, whatever
20:41 rubenwardy ;_;
20:43 Krock rubenwardy, why? That's a return code 0
20:43 rubenwardy you what mate?
20:43 Krock huh
20:44 rubenwardy what are you talking about?
20:44 Krock <rubenwardy>;_;
20:44 Pulec joined #minetest
20:45 rubenwardy I was expressing my disappointment of MinetestBot's sassiness
20:46 Krock lol okay :)
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21:23 aerth hello world
21:23 DusXMT dlrow olleh
21:27 Krock plɹoʍ ollǝH
21:29 aerth ┏━┓┏━┳━━┳━┓╋┏┳━━━┳━━━━┳━━━┳━━━┳━━━━┓
21:29 aerth ┃┃┗┛┃┣┫┣┫┃┗┓┃┃┏━━┫┏┓┏┓┃┏━━┫┏━┓┃┏┓┏┓┃
21:29 aerth ┃┏┓┏┓┃┃┃┃┏┓┗┛┃┗━━╋┛┃┃┗┫┗━━┫┗━━╋┛┃┃┗┛
21:29 aerth ┃┃┃┃┃┃┃┃┃┃┗┓┃┃┏━━┛╋┃┃╋┃┏━━┻━━┓┃╋┃┃
21:30 aerth ┃┃┃┃┃┣┫┣┫┃╋┃┃┃┗━━┓╋┃┃╋┃┗━━┫┗━┛┃╋┃┃
21:30 aerth ┗┛┗┛┗┻━━┻┛╋┗━┻━━━┛╋┗┛╋┗━━━┻━━━┛╋┗┛
21:31 Krock ShadowBot, where's your spam detector?
21:36 hmmmm durrr
21:36 hmmmm I just realized the perfect solution to my problem
21:36 hmmmm use the function reference as the key in a table
21:50 Krock hurr durr
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22:10 LandMine Sup peeps
22:10 LandMine Hey OldCoder are you here?\
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22:20 hmmmm ShadowNinja might be interested in this: https://www.defcon.org/html/defco​n-23/dc-23-speakers.html#Szakaly
22:22 OldCoder LandMine, yes
22:22 LandMine can i pm you?
22:22 OldCoder LandMine, yes
22:40 Out`Of`Control hi, any scripts exist to clean auth.txt and /players ?
22:40 kaeza joined #minetest
22:44 kaeza greetings
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22:56 aerth Out`Of`Control: find ./players -type f -not -name 'jump' | xargs rm
22:57 Out`Of`Control thanks
22:59 aerth but careful with that
23:00 aerth make sure u are in the worlds direcotyr and you see ./players
23:00 Out`Of`Control i test it first on a backup
23:00 aerth and jump replace
23:01 aerth here is the auth.txt one cat ./auth.txt | grep 'jump' > ./auth.txt
23:22 Out`Of`Control players get empty and auth.txt zero
23:24 aerth did u replace jump with your admin name
23:25 Out`Of`Control yes
23:25 Out`Of`Control it removes all beside admin
23:26 Out`Of`Control aerth:  my bad, i ment script to remove old users, not all
23:26 aerth oh ok
23:27 aerth good think you tested on a backup. is there a "last_seen" type thing anywhere
23:28 Out`Of`Control yes
23:30 Out`Of`Control i was thinking to remove users that are month old, or more, And with standart inventory, that you get on first connect.
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