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IRC log for #minetest, 2015-06-06

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:01 jordan4ibanez joined #minetest
00:03 rjs232323 yes
00:03 rjs232323 My naming scheme are weird, I
00:03 rjs232323 I plan to correct it!
00:03 rjs232323 oh, I think I see why!
00:04 rjs232323 Lol I feel silly.  when you mentioned that, I found out something wrong with it.
00:04 rjs232323 it's supposed to be pos after all!
00:05 rjs232323 well, it works perfect now
00:05 rjs232323 I feel stupid :C
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02:29 Pilcrow joined #minetest
02:30 Pilcrow Hello again all! How are you doing tonight?  :)
02:34 exio4 hi Pilcrow! long time no see!
02:35 Pilcrow exio4: yeah, it's been a while. I've been away for a few days.
02:35 Pilcrow anything new going on in the world of minetest?  :D
02:36 exio4 I don't know!
02:37 exio4 just learnt about a ready-to-use really cool docker image
02:37 exio4 https://mail.haskell.org/pipermail/​haskell-cafe/2015-June/119906.html
02:38 exio4 I just installed docker for trying it :P
02:40 exio4 I am going to sleep now, tho
02:40 exio4 good night Pilcrow :P
02:41 Pilcrow aww, alright. sleep well, exio4.
02:43 exio4 it's too warm over here :(
02:44 exio4 25~ C, 26~ feels like, 80% humidity
02:46 est31 where do you live
02:47 exio4 Argentina
02:49 ndhelp joined #minetest
02:49 ndhelp hi
02:49 Pilcrow yeah, I have problems with heat, so I feel for you. anything over 21C (70F) is pretty uncomfortable for me...
02:49 ndhelp my computer crashed
02:49 ndhelp trying to resume my game
02:49 ndhelp minetest gave mi this message
02:49 ndhelp ServerEnvironment::loadMeta0:EnvArgsEnd not found
02:49 Pilcrow and high humidity is always uncomfortable.
02:50 ndhelp hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeelllllllll​lllllllllllllllllllllṕpppppppppppppppppppppp
02:51 ndhelp hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeelllllllll​lllllllllllllllllllllṕpppppppppppppppppppppp
02:51 Pilcrow ndhelp: calm down... can you please find your debug.txt and paste the last like 10 lines to http://dpaste.com/
02:52 ndhelp ServerEnvironment::loadMeta0:EnvArgsEnd not found
02:52 ndhelp done
02:53 ndhelp http://dpaste.com/1DMZ1F3
02:53 est31 I guess that txt file is empty again
02:53 Pilcrow which file, est31?
02:54 est31 envargs I think inside world folder
02:54 technomancy Pilcrow: what up
02:54 est31 nope, env_meta.txt
02:54 Pilcrow hmm. I don't know; it's not an issue I've ever encountered.
02:55 est31 yea the usual thing to do is delete that file
02:55 est31 most likely cause: a previous crash
02:55 Pilcrow ah
02:55 Pilcrow btw, hello technomancy
02:58 technomancy Pilcrow: been kinda busy recently, but I think my next step with Calandria is to try to get the save/load logic of the server nodes' filesystem working better. it's still pretty shaky.
03:02 Pilcrow technomancy: Yeah, that seems sensible. Also, does filesystem saving/loading work in the cli lua interpreter? looks like there's a couple of places where minetest.deserialize is used, so I'm guessing not.
03:05 technomancy Pilcrow: correct; it's only implemented as part of the server node ATM
03:06 technomancy at some point we'll probably want a save/load functionality that can fall back on an alternate serialization mechanism or something
03:06 technomancy afaict minetest.serialize is just a prettyprinter
03:06 Pilcrow est31: does that problem happen very often? I've had crashes quite a few times before, and I've never had that problem. I did have a problem long ago in like 0.4.5 where I lost my worldseed and it seriously screwed up the landscape though...  :P
03:07 exio4 hai
03:07 exio4 I am still here, I don't know why
03:07 Pilcrow lol exio4
03:07 technomancy Pilcrow: did you see I replaced digiterm with digipad?
03:07 Pilcrow exio4: I thought you were going to bed? just too hot and uncomfortable, I take it?  :P
03:08 technomancy simpler codebase, though I'm going to have to take some of the digiterm ideas and port them over to our digipad fork
03:08 exio4 no, it's too cold now
03:08 exio4 idk
03:08 Pilcrow lol
03:08 technomancy in particular, every digilines send/receive should be a table, not just a stirng, so we can include the name of the player and maintain more session data
03:08 technomancy Pilcrow: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2743 is interesting too; perhaps if we switch to using an image button we can avoid the bug
03:12 Pilcrow ah. yeah, an image button may work. I've never really tried to get a formspec to stay open when a player presses enter
03:14 technomancy Pilcrow: digiterm "fixes" it by just redisplaying the formspec, but they screw it up somehow so that it becomes impossible to close without spamming the ESC key.
03:14 technomancy so we don't want that
03:14 technomancy gotta take off for a bit, will catch you later
03:14 Pilcrow alright, see ya!
03:15 * Pilcrow goes back to playing Pokemon, lol
03:19 exio4 \o
03:22 jordan4ibanez I think people might like this new mod I'm brewing
03:22 jordan4ibanez Juke boxes! \o/
03:23 Pilcrow juke boxes? do they actually play music?  :)
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03:25 jordan4ibanez Yes, and they're quite aesthetic, I think it'd add a nice feeling to the game for the player's that install the mod
03:25 Pilcrow I think I need to work on getting some of my mods ready for release. I have so many that are just sitting here, mostly done, but I haven't shared them yet...
03:26 jordan4ibanez Release them now! :P
03:26 Pilcrow lol
03:27 Pilcrow I have a few up on github right now, but so far I haven't posted any of them in the forums.
03:27 Pilcrow I could probably release my hoverbot now...
03:30 jordan4ibanez Hmmm
03:30 jordan4ibanez Is there a way to get a particle spawner's position
03:32 Pilcrow I couldn't say. particles are one thing I really haven't worked with at all. there /should/ be a way...
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03:51 Pilcrow I take it exio4 is still here? at least, he hasn't signed out yet...  :P
03:51 exio4 I don't sign out though
03:51 exio4 I am running my client on my vps
03:52 Pilcrow heh, I didn't realize that. I'd imagine VanessaE does the same, as she's always signed in as well.
03:52 est31 unaffiliated/hacker????
03:53 Pilcrow h4x0r?
03:53 est31 ~whois exio4
03:53 ShadowBot est31: exio4 (~exio4@unaffiliated/hacker) has been on server sinisalo.freenode.net since 09:03 AM, April 25, 2015 (idle for 6 seconds). exio4 is on #minetest-dev and #minetest.
04:03 Pilcrow ~whois Pilcrow
04:03 ShadowBot Pilcrow: Pilcrow (~Pilcrow@97-90-230-132.dhcp.eucl.wi.charter.com) has been on server tepper.freenode.net since 04:29 AM, June 06, 2015 (idle for 1 second). pilcrow is on #minetest.
04:03 Pilcrow ^just wanted to know what it said for me, lol
04:07 exio4 yes, I am obviously a super h4x0r est31
04:07 exio4 since 09:03 AM, April 25, 2015
04:07 exio4 Pilcrow: that gives you an idea ^
04:07 Pilcrow exio4 hacks in haskell.  :P
04:08 exio4 ofc!
04:12 Pilcrow I'm not dumb enough to try, but I wonder what would happen if you ran "dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sda" (assuming your os currently resides on sda)...
04:12 Xenoth Pilcrow: Time to make a virtual machine!
04:12 Pilcrow lol
04:13 Pilcrow vm's don't really work very well on a 2.4Ghz dual-core laptop. and that's the srongest computer I own, lol.
04:16 Xenoth 2.53GHz quad here.
04:17 Xenoth And they still don't run too well.
04:18 technomancy Pilcrow: hoverbot is probably ready for release if you brush up the readme some more
04:18 technomancy I really love the graphics for the hoverbot node
04:18 Pilcrow I should really get a chromebook. I've been eying up those $250 ones with the quad-core nVidia Tegra K1 in them. I've got an nVidia Shield Portable (Android device) with the older Tegra 4, and it's a BEAST of a little machine...  :P
04:19 technomancy the Pixel ones look pretty fancy
04:19 technomancy <3 400-nit screens for outdoor use
04:20 Pilcrow technomancy: Yeah, I've always been horrible at documentation. You've probably noticed my hoverbot's code has almost no comments at all... What do you think should go into the readme?
04:23 exio4 I'd add high-level details on the structure
04:23 technomancy Pilcrow: even though it feels redundant, a "how to install" section is good for newbies
04:24 exio4 oh, documentation for users not developers
04:24 exio4 nvm
04:24 technomancy Pilcrow: screenshots of the drag-and-drop of instructions in action so people know what to expect
04:24 technomancy Pilcrow: examples of what kinds of things you can program a hoverbot to do
04:24 technomancy Pilcrow: known bugs section, future plans section
04:28 Pilcrow the small readme I've given it does list install instructions and known bugs, but examples and future plans are good ideas to include...
04:30 technomancy oh you're right; I was confusing your readme with that of Turtle
04:31 technomancy IMO markdown readmes look nicer than .txt but that's your call =)
04:31 technomancy screenshots would help a lot I think
04:32 Pilcrow heh. markdowns annoy me a bit, but mostly because my laptop associates .md with megadrive game roms. I should probably fix that...  :P
04:33 technomancy haha
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04:33 technomancy markdown is definitely a shitty format, but it's kind of a lingua franca, so I just roll with it
04:33 exio4 Pilcrow: megadrive?
04:33 exio4 you mean sega genesis!
04:34 technomancy fwiw github supports README.markdown too I think
04:38 Pilcrow eh, I'll probably eventually get around to fixing that file association, anyway.
04:38 Pilcrow as idle curiosity though, I wonder if github supports other forms of markup. for example, a readme.tex?  :P
04:39 technomancy that might be asking too much, but there are lots of other formats that are supported that are nicer than markdown
04:39 bobomb i suppose one could use position hashes to add and subtract positions?
04:39 technomancy rst is supposed to be nice
04:41 technomancy as is asciidoc
04:44 Pilcrow interesting. I'm not really familiar with any of those, including TeX, but was just mentioning it for curiosity's sake...  :P
04:44 technomancy TeX is nice, but overkill for readmes
04:44 Pilcrow lol
04:45 technomancy I'm adding a bunch of comments to calandria's code
04:46 Pilcrow probably. from what I've read, TeX seems to be sort of eqivalent in features to a .rtf document...
04:46 Pilcrow only much more open
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04:47 Pilcrow oh, technomancy, this is the chromebook I was talking about earlier: http://www.amazon.com/Acer-Chromebook-CB5​-311-T7NN-13-3-inch-NVIDIA/dp/B00MHX6V88
04:47 Pilcrow Sure, Acer are pretty run-of-the-mill, but if I put linux on this thing it'd still be better than anything I've ever owned...  :D
04:47 technomancy I couldn't handle that screen resolution =\
04:48 technomancy not bad for the price I guess though
04:48 Pilcrow 1366x768? I've never had anything bigger, tbh
04:48 technomancy thing is you can always SSH into a nicer computer to get work done, but you can't SSH into a nicer screen or keyboard =)
04:48 exio4 once you go 1080p, you don't go back
04:49 exio4 the size matters you know
04:49 exio4 size and resolution
04:49 technomancy I'm still running on a thinkpad from 2009 simply because all the "upgrades" to the X series offered no more than 768 vertical pixels =\
04:49 technomancy I guess last year they finally fixed that, but then they did that insane move with bundling malware, so yeah... that's not going to happen
04:52 Pilcrow oh, I take that back. I did have a desktop computer that could do like 1440x960 or something, but my monitor's physical size was too small for that resolution to be anything more than an eye-strain for me...  :P
04:53 technomancy it's really handy for minetest to be able to have an editor open side-by-side with the game
04:53 technomancy I guess you could use an external display for that too
04:53 technomancy speaking of which, is there any built-in way to reload mod code? having to restart the server just to have your changes take effect is pretty ghetto.
04:53 * Pilcrow likes running everything maximized/fullscreen, regardless of resolution
04:55 Pilcrow technomancy: I know there is/was a mod that can execute arbitrary lua commands from the chat window. not sure if the same principal could be applied to a mod as a whole though...
04:58 Pilcrow ah, I found that mod: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=9671
05:01 technomancy cool
05:01 Pilcrow I don't think there's an official way to reload a mod's code on the fly though.
05:01 technomancy I guess dofile(minetest.get_modpath("orb") .. "/init.lua") would do it
05:02 exio4 as long as you don't register nodes, etc
05:02 technomancy exio4: I see; that part is not idempotent?
05:02 exio4 at worst it'll be UB
05:02 exio4 :P
05:02 technomancy I've been careful to separate out all MT-specific code from the pure-logic stuff, so I should be OK for the most part
05:02 technomancy UB?
05:03 exio4 undefined behavior
05:03 Pilcrow ah. yup. node registry is done on server startup. that's also why you can't register nodes inside a minetest.after()...
05:04 technomancy good to know, thanks
05:04 technomancy is there a way to wrap that somehow?
05:04 technomancy if(not minetest.node_registered(...)) then
05:04 Pilcrow should be
05:04 Pilcrow just a sec
05:06 Pilcrow hmm. I know I've used a check like that before. just gotta find it.
05:10 jordan4ibanez Jukebox https://youtu.be/tZc1sVJ5ylM
05:12 Pilcrow ah. yeah. technomancy, you should be able to wrap your node registries with this: if not minetest.registered_items["mod:item"] then minetest.register_node(BLAHBLAHBLAH) end
05:12 technomancy nice; thanks
05:13 exio4 I'd define a small function
05:14 Pilcrow I haven't quite used it for that though; usually I just check that the mod exists, using if minetest.get_modpath("modname") then...
05:14 exio4 local.register_node(x)
05:14 exio4 s/local/utils
05:14 technomancy should register_node do that though?
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05:14 technomancy maybe with some kind of warning to let you know the second call was ignored?
05:15 exio4 define it locally
05:17 technomancy Pilcrow: commmmmmmmmmmments! https://github.com/technomancy/calandria/com​mit/09b76106003704754f50c91aee9a28d7bac88b69
05:17 technomancy Pilcrow: hopefully that helps explain some of the weirder stuff
05:18 Pilcrow oh! yeah that should help a lot!  :D
05:19 technomancy in particular the metatable stuff is a bit weird
05:19 technomancy in lua 5.2 they added support for customizing iterators using metatables, but we don't have access to that =(
05:20 technomancy Pilcrow: one fun thing would be to start experimenting with having two servers communicate over digilines
05:21 technomancy both with other servers and with "peripherals", other node types that can receive digiline signals
05:21 technomancy I *think* I've got the foundations working to support that (fifo nodes in /digi/$CHANNEL/in and out) but I haven't gotten around to trying to use it for anything yet
05:22 technomancy gotta head off for a bit; catch you later
05:23 Pilcrow wait just a minute please
05:23 Pilcrow this should do what you wanted (but is completely untested): http://dpaste.com/1YSCMP3
05:23 technomancy nice; thanks
05:24 technomancy want to make a pull request?
05:24 Pilcrow not tonight, I need to head off as well
05:24 technomancy ok, sure
05:24 technomancy if you like I can just add you so you can push directly
05:25 Pilcrow heh, I'd be too afraid I'd ruin things. I'm not very familiar with git.
05:26 jordan4ibanez Goodnight
05:26 technomancy the great thing about git is you can always roll back
05:27 Pilcrow eh, I'm more comfortable just doing pull requests. I'll probably put a PR together tomorrow, after I've actually tried that piece of code out, lol.
05:30 Pilcrow anyways, I've got a busy day tomorrow, so I'm heading off to bed early. goodnight, all.
05:31 exio4 good night
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05:47 Krock moin
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07:25 kaeza Asdf
07:25 est31 ghjk
07:25 CWz l;'\
07:25 est31 7
07:26 est31 http://xkcd.com/1530/
07:27 est31 hows your internal skeleton doing ? :)
07:31 Calinou http://phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_i​tem&amp;px=Intel-SKL-BXT-Firmware-Blobs
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07:33 est31 how is the license of these blobs compatible with linux?
07:33 est31 someone with rights on the code should sue
07:33 est31 "no reverse engineering, decompilation, or disassembly of this software is permitted."
07:36 Calinou Linus Torvalds just doesn't care
07:36 Calinou the same way, proprietary blobs are surely a violation of GPLv2
07:36 Calinou (Fedora developers say so too)
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08:40 Consortium joined #minetest
08:40 Consortium Hi JamesTait
08:41 Consortium ... anyone here?
08:46 jin_xi joined #minetest
08:49 Consortium jin_xi: hi
08:51 H-H-H joined #minetest
08:53 Consortium Anyone who works for the developer wiki?
08:56 alket joined #minetest
08:58 kaeza "Don't ask to ask, just ask."
09:00 kaeza Well, gone anyway
09:00 * kaeza goes back to pkmn
09:02 * sfan5 throws an eevee at kaeza
09:08 kaeza http://i.imgur.com/5U5lZbf.jpg
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09:13 Consortium Anyone here???
09:13 est31 Consortium, do you want to edit developer wiki pages?
09:15 Consortium est31 yes
09:15 diemartin Calinou, ^
09:15 est31 get an irc client and join #minetest-dev, there you can ask celeron55
09:16 Calinou kaeza, “elegir un pokémon” hey, I can read that :D
09:16 Calinou I have Spanish exams in 15 days
09:16 Consortium est31: i see [17:16] == celeron55 is away: screen detached
09:16 Calinou Consortium, I can make you the account, PM me your e-mail address
09:16 Calinou you are not supposed to PM celeron55
09:16 diemartin nice :)
09:16 Consortium Oh
09:16 Calinou never do that, if you don't want to get your ass kicked :P
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09:21 Calinou C# benchmark up: http://dl.hugo.pro/benchmarks/
09:21 Calinou it's 2nd, between Go and Java
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09:48 Krock Calinou, where's c(++)?
09:53 Calinou haven't got around to them yet
09:53 Calinou will make Ruby too
09:53 Calinou and perhaps Perl/PHP
09:54 Krock next level would be a database access/write time
09:58 Calinou which database, SQLite? LevelDB?
09:58 Calinou we need one that has bindings to many languages :P
10:01 kahrl Calinou: doesn't that benchmark mostly measure stdio performance?
10:03 kahrl so languages that buffer i/o a lot will win because there's less context switches and less requests to the terminal to display new stuff
10:03 Calinou yep
10:03 Calinou also I was told the Go program outputs to stderr, and not stdout
10:03 technomancy Krock: haha
10:03 Calinou will fix that soon
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10:03 Calinou it's not a very serious benchmark, but you can see patterns appearing
10:03 technomancy Calinou: pretty sure that DB comment was a joke
10:03 Krock It was serious
10:04 Krock I thought about an SQL database
10:04 technomancy oh
10:04 technomancy Krock: you mean across databases, or across languages for a given DB?
10:04 Krock across languages
10:05 technomancy I thought the joke was because users usually blame slowness on the language, but in actuality performance issues are often bottlenecked on the DB, so the language doesn't matter.
10:05 Calinou Java is actually pretty fast, I'm proving it yet again :P
10:05 technomancy like people saying Minecraft is slow because of Java when really it's just using sloppy algorithms
10:05 Calinou although in this case, it's slightly surpassed by C# and Go
10:06 Krock just testing calculation power is not a good way to say how good a language is
10:06 technomancy Calinou: most of the edge java has over C# is in the GC, which isn't used in this problem at all but makes a huge difference in application performance
10:06 Calinou so Java is faster than C#?
10:06 technomancy ...
10:06 technomancy java is a language, not a program
10:07 technomancy one language cannot be faster than another language; only programs can be faster than other programs
10:07 Calinou no, you mean that in complex programs, Java is faster than C#?
10:07 technomancy no
10:07 technomancy I mean Java's GC is better than C#'s GC
10:07 technomancy some complex programs will be faster on the JVM and others will be faster on the CLR
10:07 Krock different languages can generate different program code which is different in its speed
10:07 technomancy you can't make sweeping generalizations about this at all
10:08 Calinou at programs that do the same task, you kind of can
10:08 technomancy .NET does most of its optimizations up-front, while the JVM does more of them by analyzing what's actually happening at runtime
10:08 Calinou look how slow was the Python minetestmapper
10:08 Calinou until someone optimized it with numpy, it was slow as hell
10:08 technomancy so Java programs start off slow, and then speed up as the JIT discovers the bottlenecks and stuff
10:08 Calinou the numpy one had decent speed; but then someone made a C++ one which blowed it out of the water
10:09 technomancy if a program consists mostly of operations the C# compiler is good at optimizing up front, then C# will probably be faster
10:10 Calinou I noticed than building the C# program took quite a bit of time, yes
10:10 Calinou more than 1 second which is a lot for a simple program like this
10:10 technomancy up-front optimizations result in slower compile times but lower runtime memory usage
10:10 Calinou however the resulting binary is very small, 3 KB
10:10 Calinou the stripped Go binary is 340 KB, and the Rust one, 312 KB ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
10:10 est31 far too large
10:11 est31 written in assembler its less than 1 KB I guess
10:11 Calinou est31, tehcnically the smallest “binary” is the JavaScript one, 416 bytes
10:11 Calinou but it's not a binary :p
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10:13 technomancy also the C# and JVM binaries are not a standalone executables
10:13 technomancy they rely on an existing runtime, while go and rust bundle their runtimes with them
10:15 est31 meh thats not standalone either
10:15 est31 you need hardware to execute it
10:15 est31 and an OS
10:16 est31 ok perhaps you dont need an OK
10:16 est31 OS*
10:16 est31 I've seen somebody write a space invaders clone as a grub module
10:16 est31 entirely os-free c program!
10:18 est31 there you can grab it -----> http://www.erikyyy.de/inva​ders/invaders-1.0.0.tar.gz
10:21 technomancy I guess go and rust are probably still going to use libc
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11:24 crazyR can anyone think of a reason why textures wont apply them selves to a mesh node but they will apply them selves to there nodebox equivalent
11:25 blaaaaargh crazyR, code?
11:26 est protected, no fun :(
11:26 kaeza ;)
11:28 crazyR https://gist.github.com/cra​zyR14/bf83ec0248011e175251
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11:29 crazyR pretty much the same as the original
11:29 crazyR the mesh object was exported using nodebox editor
11:33 crazyR the bit that gets confusing is that the mesh node looks exacly as it is suppose to. but without the textures applied to it
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11:34 kilbith crazyR, you need to open your model in Blender and create its UV-map for the texture appliance
11:34 crazyR thats odd, because when i created the node as 1 full node it worked the way it was suppose to. and that didnt go throught blender. but thanks il try that
11:34 kilbith mesh tiling does not work at all the same way than nodebox
11:36 kilbith the .obj itself indicates where to place the texture(s)
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11:56 Calinou can someone explain me how to rebase commits? ie. how to solve merge conflicts?
11:56 Calinou I know about “git rebase master” but it tells me something like:
11:56 Calinou http://paste.ubuntu.com/11602984/
11:56 nore Calinou, open the file that has a rebase problem
11:57 nore you will find "<<<<" and ">>>>" in it
11:57 nore where git couldn't rebase properly
11:57 nore then, fix the issue
11:58 nore and finally, do git add <filename> and git rebase --continue when all files have been fixed
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11:58 Calinou I rebased it by hand, by skipping the patch
11:58 Calinou I had to do it anyway due to river water's post effect colors
11:59 nore that works too :)
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12:14 MinetestBot [git] Calinou -> minetest/minetest_game: Improve water post effect color 750f957 http://git.io/vIswN (2015-06-06T14:13:01+02:00)
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12:44 kilbith !seen Zeno`
12:44 MinetestBot kilbith: zeno` was last seen at 2014-12-22 23:03:51 UTC on #minetest
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12:45 est !seen kilbith
12:45 MinetestBot est: kilbith was last seen at 2014-12-23 17:10:00 UTC on #minetest
12:46 Krock ~seen Zeno`
12:46 ShadowBot Krock: I saw Zeno` in #minetest 32 weeks, 2 days, 20 hours, 43 minutes, and 4 seconds ago saying * Zeno` is sorry for being angry but will not apologise for defending people's rights to do what is permitted under the LGPL and GPL and the spirit of those licenses
12:46 kilbith broken bot
12:48 Amaz s/bot/bots
12:53 MinetestBot [git] LeMagnesium -> minetest/minetest_game: Improved flowers' registration system - Specific nodeboxes, - Color groups - All datas were put into a table then unpacked for add_simple_flower 01ad090 http://git.io/vIsD8 (2015-06-06T14:51:25+02:00)
12:53 MinetestBot [git] quentinbd@gmail.com -> minetest/minetest_game: Simplified flowers' registration - Created a new local function to register flowers 638add6 http://git.io/vIsD4 (2015-06-06T14:51:25+02:00)
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12:57 exio4 Calinou: the benchmark is still flawed
12:58 exio4 Calinou: also, you're counting the JVM `warmup`
12:59 exio4 you haven't ''benchmarked'' the haskell examples I posted yesterday :P
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13:00 exio4 that's also single-threaded
13:00 exio4 I could naively use 8 or more threads
13:02 est yes, but to be fair other languages should be abled to do that too
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13:12 Calinou I don't have enough knowledge to write a multi-threaded generator :/
13:13 Calinou what would be a good first language to try that, Rust?
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13:26 exio4 est: it's benchmarking IO though
13:26 exio4 not performance
13:26 exio4 Calinou: I would suggest Haskell ;)
13:26 exio4 est: most languages make parallelism a pain anyway
13:26 Calinou can you give me your Haskell generators again? I no longer have the link
13:27 Calinou Haskell is multithreaded by nature, right?
13:27 exio4 http://dpaste.com/0289NVX no idiomatic, http://dpaste.com/01BRM98 idiomatic
13:27 exio4 Calinou: not really
13:27 exio4 the default runtime only uses one~ core, even!
13:27 Calinou which one is faster for you?
13:28 exio4 it's just that making the code parallel is easier than in most languages
13:28 exio4 Calinou: hm, the non-idiomatic version should be at first look, but if you compile the idiomatic version with -O2 I am pretty sure you will be removing the intermediate lists and getting a naive tail recursive loop as result
13:28 exio4 Calinou: try both, it may be different with your optimizations
13:29 exio4 I'd go with the idiomatic version
13:31 exio4 at worst, it shouldn't be that slower, list fusion does half the trick :)
13:31 exio4 (I would suggest install `parallel`, adding a few annotations, but that'd be using a dependency (which in the haskell world with hackage is pretty common, for pretty much anything non trivial))
13:32 exio4 installing*
13:33 exio4 also, if you are brave, you could use the inline-c package and write the prime checker in C, and just use Haskell as a middleware :P
13:35 Calinou readability of your code is abysmal though :P
13:35 Calinou is it like that for all Haskell code? ._.
13:35 exio4 Calinou: the idiomatic version is pretty clear
13:36 exio4 https://github.com/sseefried/open-epid​emic-game/blob/master/src/GameM.hs#L50 this is some code I was reading yesterday, I liked it
13:36 exio4 (it's mostly boilerplate there, though)
13:37 exio4 https://github.com/sseefried/open-ep​idemic-game/blob/master/src/Game.hs this one is using all that fancyness
13:39 exio4 Calinou: as an example, I ran the idiomatic version of my Konsole, and I got 4247687
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13:40 exio4 simple things like switching out of the window changes lots of things, and try benchmarking it on the TTY and then in xterm
13:41 Calinou will try
13:42 exio4 I ran that on my TTY, with a little tweak, doing sleep 1; and switching to X11 before letting it run, and now it is 4.7M
13:42 exio4 note, too, that this isn't top high-end hardware either
13:42 Calinou exio4, in tty I get 219k with the Go program, then 213k
13:43 exio4 wait, are you _looking_ at the TTY?, I meant sleep 1; BENCHMARK and before letting the benchmark run, switch to other tty
13:43 exio4 and wait the 10 seconds
13:43 Calinou 248k in xfce4-terminal
13:43 Calinou yes I was looking at the tty
13:44 exio4 don't, and you'll get different results
13:44 Calinou 245k when not looking
13:44 Calinou trying again…
13:44 exio4 is that giving you an idea of it?
13:44 Calinou 250k
13:45 Calinou it might be a tad faster
13:45 exio4 the benchmark is flawed by design, standard output isn't reliable
13:45 exio4 it's a virtual bottleneck you are adding for the sake of it
13:45 est rol really funny, discussion on two channels right now is about the benchmarks :)
13:45 est or more, dunno :)
13:45 exio4 I'd find a prime number that's in the 50 million range
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13:46 exio4 and then see how long it takes to find it is a prime number
13:46 exio4 hm
13:46 THR do MT have mem leakage.. some time my not so poor PC run into 3gig mem usage, then all go in LAgggg
13:46 exio4 more like in the 20M ^ 2 range
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13:48 Calinou est, successful troll ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
13:48 Calinou exio4, yeah, what can I do is look at how much time it takes to find a few large prime numbers
13:49 Calinou eg. starting from 10 million
13:49 Calinou I can just change nb variable for that
13:49 Calinou that'll break all my scores though :(
13:49 THR im not a troll, need help with mem leakage :\
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13:49 exio4 you seem to care more about how good lucking the scores are more than how accurate they are
13:49 exio4 gg
13:50 blaise there's a score in minetest?!
13:50 est THR, the fact that minetest has high memory requirements in certain cases is known
13:51 est try the following: if you have hd texture packs, disable them
13:52 exio4 blaise: Calinou's benchmark is flawed, he is trying to get a benchmark such that it is more good looking than how accurate it is
13:52 exio4 Calinou: you're also benchmarking compiler's quality
13:52 THR but it happen just sometime, and after a while. Im building on one spot and then it happens to.
13:52 blaise ah
13:52 exio4 Calinou: there's nothing avoiding a supercompiler :)
13:52 est exio4, is benchmarking compiler bad?
13:52 exio4 est: yes, specially if you claim you are benchmarking programming languages
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13:53 exio4 because programming languages by themselves do nothing
13:53 exio4 they are just ideas
13:53 blaise so like, are there any languages which compile and execute at execution?
13:53 exio4 as an example, .NET and Mono
13:53 est yes exio4 thats why lua and luajit have two entrie
13:53 exio4 blaise: implementation of languages, that'd a be JIT
13:53 est s
13:53 Calinou I'm benchmarking implementations
13:53 est ^
13:53 exio4 est: but then why does the title says programming languages?
13:53 Calinou I'll correct the page title to reflect that
13:53 blaise I believe BASIC also does it as well, no?
13:53 exio4 :)
13:53 Calinou I easily overlook this
13:54 THR exio4, when you going to recode the Graphic engin.. that my Nvida can use it :)
13:54 s-l-teichmann Calinou: Try this one for a concurrent Go version. http://pastebin.com/3sEbsKP6 Hacked it right down, Haven't tested it well, but should be a starting point.
13:54 exio4 it's also silly, benchmarking IO
13:55 exio4 s-l-teichmann: concurrent? why not parallel? ;)
13:55 blaise some languages arnt compiled.. they're written in their compressed and compiled form..
13:55 blaise like ASM
13:56 Calinou impressive, s-l-teichmann
13:56 Calinou however it does not return all primes…
13:56 exio4 is the order important?
13:57 s-l-teichmann exio4: you know Pikes position  on concurrency vs parallel ;-)
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13:57 Consortium Hi
13:57 blaise HI!
13:57 exio4 s-l-teichmann: Pikes? I was talking about Marlow's!
13:57 s-l-teichmann Calinou: You can remove if prime > highest then you get them all (in abitrary order)
13:58 s-l-teichmann exio4: Rob Pike
13:58 exio4 yes, I know
13:58 blaise anyone tried this mod? https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=4587
13:58 est blaise, it works
13:59 blaise are there problems?
13:59 blaise does it work with minetest-0.4.12 ?
13:59 est yea some design problems
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13:59 exio4 s-l-teichmann: https://ghcmutterings.wordpress.com/​2009/10/06/parallelism-concurrency/
13:59 est for example, there is only an audio feedback if you extend the force field
14:00 exio4 s-l-teichmann: Go's approach to concurrency is pretty crappy though
14:00 blaise :G
14:00 exio4 dat sharing of mutable data
14:01 exio4 `It is a statically-typed language with syntax loosely derived from that of C, adding garbage collection, type safety, some dynamic-typing capabilities`
14:01 exio4 am I the only that sees the oxymoron there?
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14:05 exio4 dat unsafe concurrency http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Go_%28programmi​ng_language%29#Lack_of_race_condition_safety
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14:06 exio4 dat lack of first-class tuples, too
14:07 Consortium Hello...
14:07 blaise HI!
14:08 Ipos_ joined #minetest
14:08 blaise HowAyaDoin?
14:09 * blaise mines
14:09 Consortium http://dev.minetest.net/Feature_and_mod_roadmap Doing this for the common good
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14:18 Consortium blaise: did i do good?
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14:21 Ritchie Consortium: wtf is this? are you serious?
14:21 Ritchie Consortium: do you want all this in minetest?
14:21 est its more a brainstorm wishlist than a roadmap
14:21 Consortium Ritchie: well, yeah... i mean if we call collectively gather as much idea as possible, its gonna grow fast
14:22 Consortium est: I know, it needs a lot of cleaning to do
14:22 Ritchie 1) weather.. minetest is engine, not game, for game with weather write mod which does weather
14:22 Ritchie 2) textures.. there are many texture packs
14:23 Ritchie 3) there are many mods for this, for example money, economy or write some mod
14:24 Consortium Ritchie: once i recieve a message like http://dev.minetest.net/Ta​lk:Feature_and_mod_roadmap
14:25 Ritchie 4, 5, 8.. why complicate minetest with that mess? i can play Wurm online if i want it
14:25 Consortium Ritchie: i was expecting a minecraft replacement
14:26 Ritchie minetest is not minecraft clone and it hasn't a goal to be MC clone
14:26 exio4 about 5, I would agree only on reworking the health system to be more FPS-like
14:26 Ritchie 9) mesecons..
14:26 exio4 the problem would be breaking hella lot of mods
14:27 Consortium Well how so, Ritchie ?
14:27 exio4 most things in that list are already mods, too
14:27 Ritchie exio4: hunger mod.. why do a mess with this in MT engine?
14:27 Consortium exio4: but is it possible to make mods collision free?
14:28 exio4 Ritchie: no, the health system, making it more FPS-like meant using base-100 health
14:28 exio4 Ritchie: and reworking the HUD to something less MCish
14:28 exio4 the MC approach seems pretty dumb to me, it's not fine-grained enough, and it disallow lots of fancy things like slow regen over time
14:29 exio4 base-100 would mean you could "take is a percent"
14:29 Consortium Ritchie: i see that it has pickable options in a large library. Because MT can be used as a base for FPS, MMO/MOBA etc.
14:29 exio4 not really, it lacks the client-side prediction for a FPS
14:29 exio4 and without being designed as a MMO, it would suffer from a really lot of players :)
14:30 Calinou I bet Consortium was going to do silly stuff on dev wiki :/
14:30 Calinou this is not appropriate for mainspace; I'll move it to userspace
14:30 Consortium Calinou: just a long list. Nothing more.
14:30 Ritchie Consortium: MT can be used as a base for many games only if it doesn't contain weather and similar mess, this can be modded in a subgame
14:30 Consortium Calinou: thanks
14:30 Calinou also don't put your e-mail on wikip ages
14:31 exio4 that, there's reason the talk page is there
14:31 Calinou use your user talk page for contact purposes
14:31 Consortium K, where is the userspace link, Calinou
14:31 Calinou http://dev.minetest.net/User:Con​sortium/Feature_and_mod_roadmap
14:32 Ritchie exio4: i have no problem with the current state with health bar.. base-100 health can be modded, cann't?
14:32 Consortium Calinou: could i ask a question?
14:32 exio4 Ritchie: no, it can't
14:33 Calinou yes, don't ask to ask
14:33 exio4 Ritchie: what I was thinking was about copying the health management to a FPS like redeclipse
14:33 exio4 Ritchie: base-100 would mean you could "easily" tweak the health to have incremental +2.5% health as an example
14:33 Consortium Why are mods not standardized in one single programming language or script type, Calinou
14:33 exio4 they are all written in Lua
14:34 exio4 that's a single programming language :)
14:34 Consortium Okay. But i heard the mods might be written in Python or others, sometimes
14:34 exio4 what do you mean by `script type`, though?
14:34 exio4 Consortium: not really, anything like that is a nice hack
14:34 Calinou all Minetest mods use Lua
14:35 Calinou the IRC mods relies on an external .so library, which is written in C and Lua
14:35 Ritchie exio4: so play redeclipse and don't take this to MT
14:35 Calinou (Lua itself is written in C.)
14:35 Consortium exio4: i heard from the grape vine that there is no regulation in mod scripting, some might use Python, Java etc...
14:35 Calinou you can use languages that compile to Lua like MoonScript
14:35 Calinou but currently, no one made a popular mod programmed that way
14:35 Calinou maybe there's one small mod in MoonScript and that's about it
14:35 exio4 Ritchie: not really, Redeclipse is a FPS not a sandbox game :)
14:35 Consortium Calinou: that was close.
14:36 Consortium I think Minetest need a larger command prompt library e.g. teleport, factions etc.
14:37 Calinou the standard library is large enough currently
14:39 Consortium Calinou: Minetest is bad, right?
14:39 Consortium Bad as in not "full enough"
14:40 Calinou exio4, with your idomatic Haskell prime generator, I get “main: Prelude.head: empty list” after running the main binary (ghc main.hs)
14:41 Calinou non-idomatic works
14:41 Calinou I'll just use non-idomatic for now
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14:41 Calinou it's incredibly fast… and does not miss primes :o
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14:41 exio4 Calinou: you have to give it -1 as a parameter
14:42 exio4 Calinou: wait, I think I know the problem
14:42 exio4 Calinou: are you going until sqrt n or until n-1?
14:43 Calinou nb_test goes up to n-1
14:43 exio4 O(n^0.5) is .. different to O(n)
14:43 Consortium exio4: what algorithm did you use?
14:43 Calinou one sec, I'm putting the code up
14:43 exio4 it's just the naive approach
14:43 exio4 Calinou: wait, my code is doing the wrong thing
14:44 exio4 Calinou: it's going up to sqrt n, not n-1
14:44 Calinou in non-idomatic?
14:44 exio4 both
14:44 Calinou well that's good, it's faster…
14:44 Calinou I'll change other languages so that it works the same way
14:44 Haudegen joined #minetest
14:44 Calinou but does it detect all primes?
14:45 exio4 yes'\
14:45 exio4 it's one of the most trivial optimizations :P
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14:45 Calinou thanks, I'll have to rerun all benchmarks :P
14:45 Consortium exio4: how large can the numbers get? 2^32 or 2^64?
14:46 exio4 it's using machine integers
14:46 exio4 you could change the type, or remove it, and let the compiler use gmp (Integer, BigInt, `infinite` .. you know)
14:47 Consortium exio4: so beyond BigInt?
14:47 Calinou I don't need large numbers here, uint32 or equivalent is large enough here
14:47 exio4 uint32 numbers are too cheap to check though
14:47 Consortium Calinou: do you teach Lua? I want to learn Lua
14:48 Calinou yes, it'll be three fiddy
14:48 exio4 lol
14:48 Consortium Damn
14:49 Consortium Because i want to learn Lua ASAP (i know how loops and arithmatic works, so bring it on)
14:49 exio4 what's your background in programming
14:50 exio4 Lua is meant to have a short learning curve, given that you have experience on statement based imperative languages
14:50 est https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CvjcuiQE-cQ
14:50 Consortium exio4: beginner in Java. a=+2, if else, ...
14:51 exio4 beginner in Java here means what? have you tried to learn Lua by yourself?
14:51 exio4 if you are stuck, you can ask for help
14:52 est exio4 knows languages
14:52 exio4 I don't
14:52 Calinou yesterday and today I learned Go, Rust, Java, C#, JavaScript, Ruby, …
14:52 Calinou ;)
14:52 exio4 you didn't learn them
14:52 Calinou was slightly sarcastic
14:52 exio4 you already knew the semantics of the constructs, you learnt new syntax
14:53 Calinou yeah that's about it
14:53 Calinou sometimes the line numbers are even corresponding
14:53 exio4 learning new syntax is dead easy
14:53 exio4 you don't need to learn anything, you just get used to it
14:53 exio4 concepts, though, those are a bitch!
14:53 Consortium exio4: i know how to set variable, do maths and create loops. Not so good in array and command line
14:53 Calinou I like how rustc throws meaningful errors, with colored output
14:54 Calinou that's a good evolution over gcc
14:54 exio4 Consortium: you might want to take a course in coursera, go with code academy, [...]
14:54 exio4 Calinou: gcc 5.1 does that too!
14:54 exio4 anyway, most "meaningful errors" in Rust are cause it has lots of shiny things in its type system
14:55 exio4 :D right?
14:55 Calinou I wonder why some people call Rust a replacement of C++, because it's slower, at least in single threaded operations
14:55 Consortium exio4: links?
14:55 Calinou it'll beat it for sure if you can multithread it, but you can't always multithread stuff
14:56 Calinou not to mention multithreading reduces battery life
14:56 exio4 there's no static-typed imperative language with high order functions and garbage collection with non crappy syntax out there apparently :(
14:56 Calinou what don't you like in Go and Rust?
14:56 exio4 Consortium: link to what? coursera? code academy? you can use your favorite web searcher
14:57 exio4 Calinou: I dislike the lacks of generics, and how concurrency is still unsafe, in Go
14:57 exio4 Rust, I heard it is pretty good and I liked the little bit I did
14:57 exio4 but I haven't used it
14:57 exio4 like, actively
14:57 Consortium exio4: i know coursea but... which code academy?
14:58 exio4 Calinou: Rust a "C++ replacement" comes from the fact that Rust has static deterministic memory management, no garbage collection!
14:58 exio4 systems programing, you can write a garbage collector in Rust
14:58 exio4 !g codeacademy
14:58 MinetestBot exio4: http://www.codecademy.com/
14:58 exio4 Consortium: ^
14:58 Calinou exio4, changed my benchmark to start from 1000 billion
14:58 Calinou I'll count the offset from 10 billion instead
14:58 Calinou 1000 billion*
14:58 Consortium Coursea has no Lua
14:59 Calinou Consortium, Ruby is probably the closest you can get because of its “end” keywords and such
14:59 exio4 Consortium: in the code, there's `loop 2`, change that to loop 1000...
14:59 exio4 Calinou: ^
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14:59 exio4 Consortium: sadly, learning the concepts will make learning Lua easier though :)
15:00 Calinou exio4, that makes it much slower, for no benefit?
15:00 exio4 Calinou: what makes it slower?
15:00 exio4 starting from 1000B?
15:00 Consortium exio4: learning Ruby?
15:00 exio4 yes, because it won't try the smaller primes
15:00 Calinou exio4, how is loop 1000 going to start it from 1000 billion?
15:00 exio4 Calinou: no, that's why I used ...
15:01 exio4 Calinou: which "billion" are we using here?
15:01 exio4 1000^3 or 1000^4 ?
15:03 Calinou 10^12?
15:03 exio4 ^3 then
15:03 exio4 (10^3)^4 :)
15:04 exio4 do loop (10^12) then
15:07 Calinou meh
15:07 exio4 what?
15:08 Calinou it doesn't work in all languages, and makes risk of overflowing higher
15:08 exio4 overflowing? if we're using 64bit, it shouldn't overflow
15:09 exio4 it's bigger than an int32 though
15:09 exio4 and you could benchmark the GMP bindings :)
15:09 s-l-teichmann Calinou: For your gallery http://pastebin.com/ATc69bEF (all primes, correct order) and I've put also a 'goto' in it  hoping that exio4 dies an early haskellish death. ;-)
15:09 Jordach lmao
15:10 exio4 don't worry, I can use continuations!
15:10 exio4 s-l-teichmann: 1 ain't prime!
15:11 Calinou fmt.Println("1")
15:11 Calinou fmt.Println("2")
15:11 Calinou hahaha
15:11 exio4 Calinou: I also hardcoded 2 as an exception :)
15:11 s-l-teichmann Calinou: I've never said that it only issues primes. ;-)
15:12 Calinou seems to print all primes, s-l-teichmann
15:12 Calinou however how can I optimize it so that it stops checking at the square root of the number?
15:12 Calinou your variable names are cryptic :s
15:13 s-l-teichmann Calinou: feel free to rename them
15:14 Calinou how to use square root in Go?
15:14 blaise lol
15:14 Consortium exio4: could you make a mega folder of all primes under 2^64, with each file having the same number of primes?
15:15 Consortium >The most extreme challenge ever
15:15 s-l-teichmann Calinou: math.Sqrt http://golang.org/pkg/math/#Sqrt
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15:21 Calinou s-l-teichmann, now with this optimization, your multithreaded one isn't any faster :/
15:22 Consortium exio4
15:23 s-l-teichmann Calinou: If I would take this benchmark serious that would be the part where i would take out the profiler.
15:24 s-l-teichmann Calinou: gccgo may result in slightly better code as gc
15:27 Consortium Calinou: what game is MT suppose to be? Is it a survival sim?
15:28 Calinou no, not at all
15:28 Calinou it is a sandbox game
15:29 Consortium Calinou: but sandbox for what purpose? or is it multi-purpose?
15:30 VanessaE Consortium: "Minetest" is just a sandbox game *engine* to run other stuff.  "minetest_game" is a very basic subgame mostly good for modding.  There are many other subgames as well, that do other stuff.
15:30 VanessaE some are geared toward survival, some toward creativity, some do both..
15:31 Consortium VanessaE: but the fanbase is not as big and polished as the Minecraft community...
15:31 VanessaE so?
15:31 CWz less whiny kids
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15:32 Consortium Minecraft has a modding standard (forge etc.), and also has a good mod tracking system. I see that Minetest can be better
15:32 VanessaE Minetest has an actual modding API - minecraft's modding is non-sanctioned reverse-engineered stuff.
15:33 VanessaE and we have a mod tracking system, if you mean a "store"
15:33 VanessaE (it just isn't well-managed and most modders don't like it)
15:33 technomancy minecraft's mod tracking system is a mess
15:33 Consortium VanessaE: okay. Could the mods avoid collisions and "glitch cause by incompatibility"?
15:33 technomancy I had a really hard time figuring it out; failed and got too bored of it to continue twice before I actually got it to work
15:34 Consortium technomancy: they have a whole website for it.
15:34 NekoGloop curse is evil
15:34 Consortium Curse IS Evil.
15:34 VanessaE Consortium: such things generally don't happen on minetest to begin with, so such a thing has never been seen as a necessity
15:35 technomancy Consortium: the fact that they need all piles and piles of documentation just to get something simple running is a bad sign
15:35 VanessaE minetest mods don't naturally have a conflict concern, unless you consider two mods made for the same purpose and given the same basename.  in that case it's obvious that you can only use one or the other of those - but that sort of conflict won't extend to the other mods you are using at the same time.
15:35 technomancy I found it easier to write my own mod in minetest than use someone else's mod in minecraft
15:35 NekoGloop minetest's modding API is a lot more.... ah, limited. It's simpler to understand and create simple things, sure, like a few blocks or whatever.
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15:36 VanessaE NekoGloop: you haven't looked at the API recently :)
15:36 NekoGloop technomancy: if you're referring to installing Forge, the shenanigans with post-1.6 installation have been simplified into an installer
15:36 Consortium NekoGloop: It needs a bigger base library so the will be more modding opportunities
15:37 technomancy NekoGloop: luckily I found minetest and now don't really care any more =)
15:37 NekoGloop what's honestly changed in the modding API :V
15:37 technomancy but good to know, I guess
15:37 VanessaE NekoGloop: more than I can actually remember.
15:37 VanessaE Consortium: what do you mean a bigger "base library"?
15:37 VanessaE Consortium:  look at the modding API:  https://github.com/minetest/mine​test/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt
15:38 VanessaE ^^^^^ and that's just the baseline stuff in minetest engine
15:38 VanessaE any mod can add their own API calls as well
15:38 VanessaE (look at, for example, the API in plants_lib, https://github.com/VanessaE/plantlife_​modpack/blob/master/plants_lib/API.txt )
15:38 Consortium VanessaE: what ever command prompt Minecraft has, Minetest has to make it better. For example: teleport, currency, factions, PMs
15:38 VanessaE minetest has PMs, teleport, and there are various currency mods.
15:39 VanessaE I think there are a couple of factions mods too
15:39 technomancy great to have you around to tell everyone what to do though; that should help solve a lot of problems. =)
15:40 NekoGloop the problem with seperating the modding API into lua that hooks into C++ rather than just having the mods -be- the same base programming language is that you can only do what there are hooks for; meanwhile minecraft mods are written in java, so the mods have free range to do anything java can do, not just whatever the modding API allows (Forge is mainly a compatibility layer between mods and a mod lo
15:40 NekoGloop ader, rather than itself a layer between minecraft's code and the mods' code, though it does help to serve that function.)
15:41 technomancy NekoGloop: you still have to stick with a published API if you want it to continue to work after an upgrade
15:41 VanessaE yes, that's true.  it also leads to better control over what breaks.
15:41 technomancy that's the whole point of having a clearly-defined interface
15:41 VanessaE ninja'd.
15:41 technomancy knowing what's going to stick around vs what's an implementation detail... pretty important in the long run, even if it feels like a pain up-front
15:41 technomancy VanessaE: it's the dvorak
15:41 Consortium technomancy: imagine having a billboard full of ideas, and everyone can choose which to make it happen. The two problems are A. nobody noticing and B. two guys fighting to take "street cred" by making the same idea happen.
15:42 technomancy =)
15:42 hmmmm joined #minetest
15:42 VanessaE technomancy: and my bad hands finding two keys for every one I push ;)
15:42 NekoGloop Consortium: literally only two of those commands you stated were in MC are from MC itself; the other two are mods.
15:42 technomancy Consortium: talk is cheap; let's see some code =)
15:43 VanessaE Consortium: we have an issue tracker for that.
15:43 VanessaE https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pulls  and  https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues
15:43 blaise Consortium: what do you think of this? http://www.subgenius.com/
15:44 Consortium technomancy: ideas and code to make the ideas happen are separate issue
15:44 Zymotic joined #minetest
15:44 VanessaE Consortium: the reason minetest isn't as polished or as popular is one simple thing:  Minecraft has first-mover advantage,.
15:44 Consortium blaise: WTF is that?
15:44 NekoGloop technomancy: the issue with mods breaking after version upgrades in MC is mainly because mojang is dumb and re-obfuscates the java code of MC every version update.
15:45 blaise Consortium: I'm not entirely sure..
15:45 VanessaE (no, that doesn't mean it had to come out first -- Infiniminer predates MC -- merely reach the market first)
15:45 Consortium VanessaE: i know. I am saying "Does Minetest have a Catch-up mechanism to beat Minecraft earlier"?
15:46 blaise yes,
15:46 blaise with massive rubber chickens..
15:46 VanessaE I suppose it does, in the form of good coders.
15:46 VanessaE both for the engine and for mods.
15:46 * blaise gasps at the discovery of his empty coffee cup
15:47 VanessaE but the question of where "catch up" will lead to is as yet unanswered.
15:47 VanessaE as Minetest is not meant to be a MC clone, by definition it doesn't necessarily need to have the same feature set
15:48 blaise I own a copy of MC, I chose to play MT over it becuase it runs better and has better graphics, in large thanks to VanessaE and several others in here
15:48 VanessaE :)
15:49 Consortium VanessaE: is it possible to gather all FPS lovers in one region, MMO/MOBA in the next room, SIms in the third, and generate as much ideas as possible? Minecraft is already a clone to TF2, Pokemon, Mirror's Edge, Assasin's Creed... Minecraft and Minetest are both sandbox engine. The only difference is that Minecraft is slightly more survival oriented
15:49 NekoGloop I choose to play MC because the variety of mods gives me a lot to do in the world.
15:49 VanessaE I got into minetest because I wanted to play around a bit with something equivalent to minecraft's redstone.  now three years later, I code mods for it instead because it's more productive.
15:49 blaise a lot of people consider MT to be vastly ahead of MC in several ways
15:50 NekoGloop MT is innately ahead of MC in the region of game performance because it was coded competently :V and MT's (numerous) developers actually try to make the game run better.
15:50 blaise ;)
15:51 * blaise scampers off to refill his coffee mug
15:51 VanessaE blaise: grab me a cappuccino? :)
15:51 sd1001 Coffee mugs are always too empty
15:51 sd1001 I want a neverending cofe mug
15:51 NekoGloop however, the style of gameplay that MC lends itself to (survival, with a little bit of engineering and some magic thrown in) is just something I simply find more enjoyable
15:52 RealBadAngel joined #minetest
15:52 Consortium VanessaE: do you skype or gmail? I really want to live the fast track of coding.
15:52 RealBadAngel hi
15:52 NekoGloop hiya RBA
15:52 RealBadAngel https://imgrush.com/IP7Naqzcb93f.png
15:53 Consortium RealBadBoy? Oh eah
15:53 NekoGloop I see you've been busy
15:53 Consortium *yeah
15:53 RealBadAngel i think im done with new parallax and auto generation of heightmaps
15:53 kilbith merge merge merge
15:53 RealBadAngel as you can see it works with any texture pack
15:55 RealBadAngel https://imgrush.com/h_F-0fk8FC8Z.png
15:55 Amaz That is awesome!
15:56 Consortium That Minecraft skin is awesome
15:57 Calinou Consortium, TF2 is a clone of Quake ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
15:57 NekoGloop one of the main issues I have with minetest's mods is that, to my knowledge, there's not really a lot of variety.
15:57 Calinou https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1ZtBCpo0eU
15:57 VanessaE hey RBA
15:57 NekoGloop Consortium: I'm really beginning to believe you have no idea what you're talking about ^^"
15:57 Consortium Calinou: Its all a clone-ception
15:57 VanessaE Consortium: gmail yes, but not skype.
15:58 VanessaE RealBadAngel: looks good.  what algorithm did you end up going with for the autogen?
15:58 RealBadAngel relief mapping
15:58 blais3 joined #minetest
16:00 VanessaE ah
16:00 blaise joined #minetest
16:07 est31 joined #minetest
16:07 RealBadAngel relief mapping is quite expensive but effects are great
16:07 est31 does minetest suffer from this bug too? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1
16:07 rjs232323 joined #minetest
16:07 RealBadAngel way better than parallax mapping
16:08 GeHa joined #minetest
16:09 rjs232323 hi, parallax mapping? Thats something I wouldn't know!
16:11 Consortium VanessaE
16:11 VanessaE hm?
16:12 jojoa1997|Linux joined #minetest
16:15 RealBadAngel rjs232323, we already have parallax mapping in the engine. now we just going to have better one together with autogeneration of heightmaps
16:16 rjs232323 like better in term of looks, performance, or ability?
16:16 RealBadAngel in fact its going to be something in between parallax mapping and relief mapping
16:16 RealBadAngel all of them
16:17 RealBadAngel for fast processing  we can use parallax with slope information and just one iteration
16:17 RealBadAngel for better quality we can choose relief mapping  (15 iterations per pixel)
16:17 s-l-teichmann Calinou: Try this one http://pastebin.com/XKCB4q0j for me the sqrt early stop helps alot, but maybe my code is wrong
16:18 RealBadAngel if we dont have any normalmaps we can turn on autogeneration, thats most slow one - about 30 iterations per pixel
16:19 Freejack joined #minetest
16:24 Calinou s-l-teichmann, not faster :/
16:24 Calinou I'll stick to single thread benchmark for now
16:24 Consortium VanessaE: gonna go
16:29 VanessaE er...ok
16:32 Krock srsly? http://i.imgur.com/X0Ggq21.png
16:35 s-l-teichmann Calinou: That's interesting ... 494987 w/o sqrt 28794949 w/ sqrt on my i5 ... maybe the i/o buffering on your machine is more dominant. Have you tried to run it bit longer than the 10 seconds. as the primes get sparser the i/o effects should become less important.
16:35 Kenney joined #minetest
16:38 blais3 joined #minetest
16:38 Calinou http://dl.hugo.pro/benchmarks/
16:38 Calinou new comparisons up
16:39 Calinou (with the sqrt)
16:39 Calinou LuaJIT is now the winner :)
16:43 Kenney woohoo!
16:47 s-l-teichmann Calinou: I get 4531091 with your Go version and 28794949 with my mult-thread one which is over 6 times faster. I really dont understand why the multi-threaded version performance so badly at your side.
16:49 exio4 I am surprised
16:49 exio4 Calinou: I get 4+ million with the haskell version, which GHC version are you using?
16:51 Calinou The Glorious Glasgow Haskell Compilation System, version 7.6.3
16:51 exio4 also, you are counting the warmup of the JVM, pretty sure it could be faster :)
16:51 Calinou (Debian 8 64-bit)
16:51 exio4 Calinou: ah, 7.6
16:51 exio4 Calinou: may you try with -fllvm?
16:51 Calinou the JVM warmup is only really noticeable with JRuby
16:52 Calinou main.hs:11:7: parse error on input `loop'
16:52 Calinou if I use -fllvm
16:52 Calinou nvm, was my fault
16:52 Calinou does Haskell require tabs?
16:53 Calinou does Haskell require tabs?
16:53 Calinou oops
16:53 exio4 Calinou: no, not tabs, it uses the layout rule though
16:53 exio4 Calinou: you can use spaces, which is the idiomatic way in Haskell
16:54 exio4 tab size is hardcoded to 8 in the compiler (if you use tabs, make sure to use it with that size)
16:54 Kenney Waddaya guys think of my UI/HUD suggestions? https://forum.minetest.net/v​iewtopic.php?f=3&amp;t=12494
16:55 Krock why do we need a left AND a right texture for the edges?
16:55 s-l-teichmann Calinou: maybe you put all the version numbers of the compiler/interpreters/runtimes and compile instrutions into the overview page as well?
16:56 Calinou please no pixel font by default, Kenney
16:56 Calinou it sucks
16:56 Calinou this is not 1996 anymore
16:56 Kenney No idea Krock, that's just the way it's been done for years hah!
16:56 Calinou else we might also default to 8 bit colors
16:56 Calinou and .pcx textures
16:56 Kenney Pixel fonts would fit in with the style of the game, you know, pixelart and voxels.
16:56 Kenney where a TTF totally clashes with all the other visuals on the screen
16:56 Krock god, use real fonts if there's already a good font support
16:56 est31 game creators should be abled to chose
16:57 est31 when you connect to a server, the buttons should be the server's theme
16:57 Kenney That's true though, there should always be the option to switch. But if you'd want Minetest to look like a fairly decent game, work on keeping the style fluent
16:57 est31 when you are in singleplayer or inside the client, the buttons should be the current selected game's ones
16:57 Calinou bitmap fonts are plain obsolete, too
16:57 Kenney No bitmap fonts
16:57 Calinou with rare exceptions (very stylized numbers)
16:57 Kenney TTF, but bitmap
16:57 Calinou that makes no sense :P
16:57 est31 minetest is a retro game Kenney is right with that
16:57 Calinou you mean a pixelated TTF
16:58 Kenney http://www.kenney.nl/assets/kenney-fonts
16:58 Kenney Yeah
16:58 Kenney similar to these fonts I've made earlier
16:58 Calinou also the big issue of pixelated conf is internationalization
16:58 Krock ttf's are not supposed to be edged..
16:58 Calinou Russian/Greek or worse, CJK support, is nonexistent sometimes
16:58 Calinou pixelated font*
16:58 Kenney Not sure what you mean by that Krock
16:59 Kenney but yeah Calinou, that's very true - there could/should be a fallback
16:59 Krock Kenney, well, you could just write a 2-color bitmap with minimal font size and then upscale. TTFs should be used for round/more complicated things
16:59 Krock ^ IMO
17:00 Kenney TTF's are used because of the ease, not to limit them to only rounded fonts
17:00 Calinou we can use GNU Unifont… that's what Minecraft did
17:00 Kenney Bitmap fonts should be used to add certain effects or symbols to fonts, like an outline
17:00 Calinou it's a tad thin though
17:03 Kenney I'll probably be forking Voxus for the sole reason of changing the menu, launcher and HUD.
17:03 Kenney As a designer, Minetest's default is absolutely dreadful
17:04 Krock VanessaE, oops. reported a wrong post.
17:04 VanessaE oh well
17:04 blaise was "item_tweaks" ever merged with default?
17:04 Calinou Kenney, we can use this week's trendy font: Roboto
17:04 Calinou that's what I already do :)
17:05 Krock blaise, only partwise. the items get deleted after a while
17:05 Kenney Yes, do. Add text reflections, make sure the HUD displays health by adding blood stains and hey why not just get rid of the hotbar and create a Windows style dialog
17:05 Kenney btw I do use Roboto in my design work, it's an awesome font
17:06 blaise interesting..
17:06 Calinou Kenney, me too :P
17:06 Calinou Roboto Mono's my coding/terminal font, Roboto is my system and website font…
17:06 Krock Kenney, using textures for buttons and other GUI elements is generally a good idea but just not that pixel art.
17:06 Kenney I'm more of a Robot Slab type of guy though
17:06 Calinou no italic variant :(
17:07 Kenney Oh well Krock that was just a sample; it could be anything.
17:07 blaise Krock: you know if it conflicts with default now? or did they remove the halflife of node code from tweak now that it's implemented in default?
17:07 Calinou Krock, textures for buttons don't scale well
17:07 Calinou not good for high DPI screens and downscaled screens
17:07 Kenney That's why you use 9-slice, so it scales well
17:07 Krock blaise, ask god, maybe he knows more than me.
17:07 Krock Calinou, depends on the scale method
17:08 Krock well, everything has its limits
17:08 blaise Krock: what is this 'god' you speak of?
17:08 VanessaE http://www.pickafont.com/fonts/Mister%​20Pixel%2016%20Pt%20%20%20Regular.html
17:08 VanessaE this font looks interesting.
17:09 s-l-teichmann Calinou: Which Go version do you use? gccgo or gc? 1.4.x or below? This info may help me understand the bad performance of the multi-threaded version. Another question is, does the performande change if you redirect the output to a file?
17:09 Kenney http://www.dafont.com/pixelmix.font
17:09 Kenney this is the one I've used in my sample, but it's for personal use only
17:09 Krock blaise, the dude in the infinite space. However, the best way to find an answer to test it ;)
17:09 Kenney I'd probably create a custom font for Minetest
17:09 Krock *is to
17:09 blaise nice
17:09 blaise I plan on it
17:10 blaise I'm sad to see that mt-firearms mod was abandoned..
17:10 blaise :G
17:10 Krock I personally Tahoma, it's similar to Minetest's font but I'm more familiar with that one
17:10 Krock +use
17:11 Krock Kenney, the bold variant is very similar to Nokia's font http://www.dafont.com/nokia-cellphone.font
17:12 Kenney Ah yeah it is
17:13 VanessaE http://www.kreativekorp.com/​software/fonts/apple2.shtml -- the BSW font found here (about half-way down the page) is one I "grew up with" ---> http://www.kreativekorp.com/swdow​nload/fonts/retro/berkeliumii.zip
17:13 blaise glad to see riesenpilz is still alive and well
17:14 Kenney drawtype='face_player' would be a godsend when creating good looking trees
17:14 LazyJ joined #minetest
17:15 jordan4ibanez joined #minetest
17:15 Kenney http://puu.sh/ieKQZ/10b5611795.jpg
17:15 Kenney pretty close to how I want it now
17:16 jordan4ibanez That looks beautiful Kenney
17:16 rjs232323 pwetty
17:16 RealBadAngel https://imgrush.com/qplk9nMDX-m4.png
17:17 Kenney nice RBA!
17:17 sfan5 Kenney: !
17:17 RealBadAngel it looks like parallax works quite nice with even 16px and filtering on
17:17 jordan4ibanez Oh wow
17:17 sfan5 Kenney: on your patreon you say something about LUA, there is not LUA acronym though; it's called Lua
17:18 blaise man, sumpf is running an error
17:18 blaise :(
17:18 Kenney Oh woops, will fix
17:18 blaise I knew I should have left everything alone..
17:18 blaise D:
17:18 blaise 12:16:25: ERROR[main]: ...ib/minetest/.minetest/mods/​sumpf/jungletree/init.lua:70: attempt to call field 'copy' (a nil value)
17:18 * blaise whimpers
17:19 Calinou s-l-teichmann, go 1.3.3
17:21 eeew joined #minetest
17:21 s-l-teichmann Calinou: Pretty old .. Debian stable I guess. you should try 1.4.2 ... but 1.3.3. is not old enough to explain the bad performance.
17:22 blaise lol
17:22 Calinou Debian 8 indeed
17:22 * blaise uses funtoo
17:22 Calinou stretch has 1.4.2
17:23 hmmmm I tried to install funtoo but it wasn't fun
17:24 blaise hmmmm: what about gentoo ?
17:24 hmmmm that's really not fun
17:24 sfan5 * blaise uses funtoo
17:24 blaise hehehe
17:24 Kenney chances of item spawning when cutting down tree trunks; http://puu.sh/ieLl1/61699b48ac.png
17:24 * sfan5 wonders whether blaise does -funroll-loops
17:24 blaise sfan5: I do not.
17:24 hmmmm fun fruit rollups
17:24 Kenney seeds and fiber will be received when breaking leaves
17:25 s-l-teichmann Calinou: I will download 1.3.3 and check it.
17:25 VanessaE sfan5: you forgot -fracing-stripes and -ftype-r-sticker ;)
17:25 sfan5 Kenney: is that last thing a crossaint?
17:25 Kenney ...well, close, it's a maggot
17:25 sfan5 VanessaE: something something http://fun.irq.dk/funroll-loops.org/
17:25 Kenney or well grub actually
17:28 blaise ttps://gcc.gnu.org/onlinedocs/gcc​-3.4.4/gcc/Optimize-Options.html
17:28 sfan5 >gcc-3.4.4
17:28 blaise http://dev.minetest.net/User:Con​sortium/Feature_and_mod_roadmap
17:29 est31 Calinou, thats ^ a better place for the page
17:35 eeew joined #minetest
17:36 blaise hrmmm
17:36 blaise who wrote sumpf anyway
17:36 est31 sumpf?
17:37 blaise HybridDog,
17:37 blaise whoever that is
17:37 blaise https://github.com/HybridDog/sumpf
17:37 Krock ( = w_laenger on IRC and some servers)
17:37 blaise you think it's possible that it was encorperated into moretrees ?
17:38 * blaise looks
17:38 blaise nope
17:39 blaise I think it's not a problem with sumpf so much, as a problem with jungletree
17:39 blaise https://github.com/bas080/jungletree
17:40 blaise :\
17:40 s-l-teichmann Calinou: I've rebuild it with 1.3.3 and getting 20048089 for mine .   4565669 for yours ... which is over 4 times slower. So mystery still exists.
17:41 s-l-teichmann Calinou: Don't you mind to do a test build with Go 1.4.2 from https://storage.googleapis.com/g​olang/go1.4.2.linux-amd64.tar.gz ?
17:43 Calinou or I can upgrade to stretch :)
17:47 Shackra joined #minetest
17:47 blaise I guess I gotta disable sumpf till jungletree's gets fixed
17:48 blaise what bug reporting system does minetest use? jira ?
17:48 blaise bugzilla ?
17:48 Krock It uses stringstream
17:48 blaise and, is there a minetest mods bug reporting site that is seperate ?
17:49 Krock report bugs in the forum topic of the mod
17:49 est31 every mod has their own bug reporting site
17:49 est31 basically
17:49 est31 either on github or on the topic
17:49 Krock or notabug.org
17:49 blaise interesting
17:50 est31 or bitbucket.com
17:50 Krock *.org
17:50 blaise lmao
17:51 Krock btw, any interest in a new forum game about "bad fairy"? "I would like to have an ice cream" -> "You get one but it's molten. I want a car"...
17:51 blaise XD
17:52 blaise 12:52:00: ERROR[main]: ...t/mods/minetest-mod-mesecon​s/mesecons_torch/init.lua:79: attempt to perform arithmetic on field 'LIGHT_MAX' (a nil value)
17:52 blaise POOP!
17:52 WSDguy2014 joined #minetest
17:52 blaise now that I synced all the mods on my server, they're all b0rked! :((((
17:53 blaise GAH DAMNAH!!
17:53 * blaise facepalms
17:53 Calinou s-l-teichmann, upgrading to stretch (9) right now :P
17:54 blaise I should have left well enough alone.....
17:54 blaise but I wanted the laitest mods....
17:55 WSDguy2014 Hello guys, i think are mese lamp are added in the game :|
17:55 blaise would anyone here be willing to help me with a new ebuild for minetest on gentoo/funtoo ?
17:55 est31 ebuild?
17:55 blaise I believe the ebuild can remain the same, but there needs to be patches
17:56 blaise est31: ebuilds are scripts that portage uses to compile packages for gentoo/funtoo from source
17:56 WSDguy2014 in newest version don't have mese lamp
17:56 blaise WSDguy2014: then where does that code come from?
17:56 blaise because that's a recent git pull
17:57 Jordach joined #minetest
17:57 blaise Jordach: howdy
17:58 WSDguy2014 i want mese lamp in the game
17:58 WSDguy2014 not a mod about mesecons
17:58 blaise lol
17:59 blaise >---light_source = default.LIGHT_MAX-5,
17:59 blaise so that's line 79
17:59 blaise is that line not compatable with minetest-0.4.10 ?
18:00 WSDguy2014 im playing in newest version 0.4.12 and i cannot see mese lamp in the game
18:01 blaise it's definitly in the mod
18:01 blaise they're not going to put mod stuff into the default game like that
18:01 blaise they would have to add the entire mesecons modpack to the default
18:01 blaise and there's obviously problems with it..
18:02 blaise where is Jeija when ya need him
18:02 blaise :G
18:02 Krock blaise, default.LIGHT_MAX = default.LIGHT_MAX or LIGHT_MAX
18:04 s-l-teichmann Calinou: I've lock in remotely to an older i7 at work and repeated the test. Here I get 5289217 for your and 41764007 for mine! On this architecture mine is slower!
18:04 blaise so.. I need to  s/default.LIGHT_MAX/LIGHT_MAX/ ?
18:04 Krock blaise, define default.LIGHT_MAX
18:05 blaise how would I do that?
18:05 Krock default.LIGHT_MAX = default.LIGHT_MAX or LIGHT_MAX
18:05 blaise do I just add that somewhere in the lua ?
18:06 Krock best place is somewhere in the upper part of the init.lua file
18:06 blaise I havn't been able to make sense of lua syntax yet
18:06 Krock (of either mesecons or default itself)
18:06 blaise so I put "default.LIGHT_MAX = default.LIGHT_MAX or LIGHT_MAX" on a line all by it'self at the top ?
18:07 blaise Krock: what about in settings.lua ?
18:07 Krock games\the active game of your world\mods\default\init.lua a line below default = {}
18:09 blaise hrmm
18:09 blaise I don't have my structure set up that way
18:09 Krock then replace \\ with /
18:09 Krock how else would you use a subgame?
18:10 blaise the server is ran under the user minetest.. and everything is in ~/.minetest/ aside from the default game
18:10 blaise in /usr/share/games/minetest/games/minetest_game/
18:11 Krock that's what I've meant
18:12 blaise in here /usr/share/games/minetest/gam​es/minetest_game/mods/default
18:12 blaise with init.lua
18:12 blaise k
18:12 WSDguy2014 Hello guys, i found about mese lamp in the game, not mods. But theres no Mese lamp in latest version in the game but mese lamp are exist from version 0.4.12-dev ?
18:12 WSDguy2014 I found about mese lamp in the game, not mods. But theres no Mese lamp in latest version in the game but mese lamp are exist from version 0.4.12-dev ?
18:12 blaise I'll pop it under the GUI related stuff?
18:12 WSDguy2014 sorry about spam again
18:13 Krock there's a mese lamp in the mesecons mod
18:13 WSDguy2014 i will take screen shot soon...
18:13 blaise Krock: he wants mesecons_lamp in his default mod
18:13 blaise lmap
18:13 blaise s/p/o/
18:14 blaise WSDguy2014: Krock just told me how to modify the default game
18:14 Krock is lmao btween lol and rofl?
18:14 blaise laughing madly and openly
18:14 blaise or laughing my arse off
18:15 s-l-teichmann Calinou: When I use "sleep 60" instead of 10 I get 164777777 for mine and 19176193 for yours which is more than 8 times faster. The old i7 has 8 cores.
18:15 blaise but not rolling on the floor, not yet..
18:15 blaise so yeah, I suppose it's somewhere in the middle.. XD
18:16 Krock (cuz laughing off (should be funny (really))   )
18:16 s-l-teichmann Calinou: So the i/o dominates for lower primes. Mind to run a 60 sec test on your machine?
18:17 blaise "IT FELL THE FSCK OFF!!!"
18:17 blaise k, so now I have moar issues with mesecons mod
18:17 blaise hehe
18:17 WSDguy2014 guys, i can't upload image from imgur.com, i registreded to WSDguy2014 and uploading image takes forever :(
18:17 blaise 13:16:05: ERROR[main]: ...s/minetest-mod-mesecons/mes​econs_movestones/init.lua:117: attempt to call field 'copy' (a nil value)
18:17 blaise I feel like this might could be a lost cause..
18:18 blaise is mesecons abandoned ?
18:18 Krock your minetest version is.
18:18 jordan4ibanez New jukebox
18:18 jordan4ibanez https://youtu.be/6geusXzeTgE
18:19 Calinou s-l-teichmann, I'm uploading new benchmark results after finding an optimization
18:19 Krock blaise, get the latest builtin directory from HEAD to fix that problem, the other soualtion is to get minetest 0.4.12
18:19 Calinou you can find the results here: http://dl.hugo.pro/benchmarks/
18:19 Calinou Go is the winner now…
18:19 Krock jordan4ibanez, too large notes for my taste
18:19 Calinou also C++ was added
18:19 Calinou Krock, ^
18:19 Krock \o/
18:20 Calinou it's not the fastest, surprisingly
18:20 blaise Krock: I have it compiled in my user dir on my workstation.. the problem is there isn't an ebuild or patches for my linux distro for minetest-0.4.12
18:20 jordan4ibanez Time  to make them BIGGER
18:20 WSDguy2014 im playing in version 0.4.12, must suposed to be see mese lamp block in game version called 0.4.12-dev  dev - is Development version
18:20 s-l-teichmann Calinou: A good multi-threading strategy would be to increase the number of workers only if targeting for higher primes.
18:20 jordan4ibanez Lol jk, I think you may be right
18:20 blaise Krock: and while I have used diff to create patches, I'm not fermiliar with it enough to do so on a project which I didn't author..
18:20 Krock blaise, lovely. I'm using an 14 year old OS and never had any bigger problems with updating :P
18:21 blaise Krock: which one?
18:21 Krock Windoze 5.1 aka XP
18:22 blaise zoiks!
18:22 blaise you're in Kahootz with the diabla!
18:22 blaise Krock: https://packages.gentoo.org/p​ackage/games-action/minetest
18:23 Krock I'm in... eh, what?
18:23 s-l-teichmann Calinou: Can you confirm my results for the 60 seconds test?
18:24 Krock Calinou, main.cpp line 21: why do you define nb_test = 2 a 2nd time?
18:25 blaise Krock: you're working with the devil
18:25 blaise lol
18:26 Calinou s-l-teichmann, the multithreaded one?
18:26 Calinou I'm not running Go 1.4.2 yet
18:28 s-l-teichmann Calinou: 1.3.3 should be fine (1.4.2 performs better). The current thesis is that longer runs favor the multi-threaded version (even with 1.3.3)
18:28 Calinou can you give me the latest multithreaded version code?
18:29 rjs232323 hello guys, I have a question. I am playing with nodebox and I am trying to determine what would be the best way for nodebox to be as dynamic (the shapes of the nodebox keeps changing base on its nearby nodes)
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18:30 rjs232323 Would I need to register each nodebox for shape it makes or is there a way to update single block's node size?  I'm using nodebox with defined fixed numbers
18:30 est31 rjs232323, the technic mod has the cleanest solution: defining one node for every possible combination
18:30 est31 with nice for loops :)
18:30 rjs232323 ah?
18:30 rjs232323 looking into that
18:31 s-l-teichmann Calinou: http://pastebin.com/XKCB4q0j
18:32 est31 this file especially: https://github.com/minetest-technic/technic/bl​ob/master/technic/machines/register/cables.lua
18:33 WSDguy2014 how do find version 0.4.12-dev, help me
18:33 rjs232323 interesting
18:33 rjs232323 so it loops all that and regist er it
18:33 rjs232323 I dont suppose we could elimate that step and just edit single block's directly eh?
18:34 rjs232323 its just for the looks
18:34 rjs232323 I could use that, thanks est31
18:35 blaise https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=551386
18:35 blaise poof, done
18:35 blaise XD
18:38 blaise hrmm
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18:38 blaise when exactly was minetest-0.4.12 released?
18:38 blaise where can I find a timestamp? or a changelog?
18:39 * blaise looks at github
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18:39 blaise ah, yes
18:39 blaise sfan5 released this on Feb 18 · 424 commits to master since this release
18:41 WSDguy2014 how about version 0.4.12-dev, have mese lamp, help me
18:42 Krock Calinou, is this an acceptable c++ code? http://pastebin.com/3S6CdkQK
18:43 Calinou I already have the C++ port
18:43 Calinou it runs just fine
18:43 Krock Would that one run better?
18:44 Calinou I don't know :/
18:44 Calinou try the original and new one on your PC
18:44 * Calinou is tired as hell with all that benchmarking
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18:44 Krock dunno how to timeout in batch
18:45 Calinou just compare for approximately 10 seconds, Ctrl + C when appropriate :P
18:45 Calinou poor man's timeout
18:45 Krock my hero.
18:47 est31 Calinou, heres the c one https://gist.github.com/ano​nymous/ebc64d49abc5f1ee4e81
18:50 Krock Okay, my code seems to be a little faster, I would need a 1 minute long check to make sure it's actuall faster :/
18:50 Krock est31, typedef enum { false, true } bool; ?
18:50 Halamix2 or use VM with linux\]
18:51 est31 oh even nicer Krock
18:51 Krock found it somewhere in stackoverflow
18:51 est31 its 1:1 what the c code does
18:52 Krock now let's do it with brainfk
18:53 Calinou I won't accept esoteric languages, probably
18:53 est31 sorry meant to write: "its 1:1 what the js code does"
18:54 Halamix2 (I kow someone who may be able to write it in QBasic :) )
18:54 Halamix2 *know
18:55 Halamix2 (and I may be able to port it to Pascal)
18:59 edakiri joined #minetest
19:00 edakiri I tried minetest from debian package and it SegFaulted. I'm using the mesa software rasterizer. Maybe that is related.
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19:05 MinetestBot [git] HybridDog -> minetest/minetest: Decrease minetest.after globalstep lag 8383a61 http://git.io/vIZI6 (2015-06-06T21:00:38+02:00)
19:05 Calinou go 1.4 is much slower on my single-threaded Go program :/
19:05 Calinou 6978k only
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19:11 s-l-teichmann Calinou: Removing the floating point operation from the inner loop may help.  And you should replace println() with fmt.Println & Co.
19:14 edakiri I'm surprised people voluntarily program in Go.
19:15 blaise so, I think I may have a working minetest-0.4.12.ebuild
19:15 blaise :)
19:15 blaise I'm doing my dependancy check and ebuild manifest now..
19:16 blaise also syncing portage ..
19:16 blaise I did submit a bug report for minetest ebuild to be bumped in portage...
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19:22 exio4 edakiri: I am not
19:22 exio4 edakiri: people also write Java, voluntarily
19:23 Calinou C++ isn't all that great, you know
19:23 edakiri exio4: I do. It's the linking of Java that allows good support in IDEs.
19:23 exio4 edakiri: well, I meant Java because they think the language is great
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19:24 exio4 not because the tooling is great, which is the only great thing Java got
19:24 Calinou Java has a garbage collector, and is only slightly slower than C++
19:24 exio4 Calinou: who said anything about C++?
19:24 edakiri I don't think the language is great, the linkage is better than many others and the tool support is good.
19:24 Calinou it's definitely a step up IMO
19:24 exio4 Calinou: how do you know it's "slightly slower"?
19:25 Calinou https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jake2
19:25 Calinou http://bytonic.de/html/jake2.html
19:25 Calinou http://bytonic.de/html/benchmarks.html
19:25 est31 have you benchmarked c yet Calinou?
19:25 edakiri Also the Java collections library is better than what I otherwise know. Better than C++ STL.
19:25 Calinou nope, but C looks mostly obsolete, except for embedded work
19:26 Calinou I could do it for the sake of it as it's still used
19:26 exio4 edakiri: well, I dislike how Java approaches pretty much everything when it comes to libraries, but that's just liking or not
19:27 Megaf_ Hi
19:27 exio4 hi Megaf_
19:27 exio4 Calinou's benchmark is flawed anyway
19:27 exio4 we need garbage-collector straining benchmarks
19:27 Megaf_ I wonder why my IRC client keeps renaming me to Megaf_
19:27 Calinou exio4, I am going to wrap my answer in a class constructor, let me take 3 minutes. :-)
19:29 exio4 gc perf, integer perf, floating point perf
19:29 exio4 idiomatic vs non-idiomatic code
19:30 exio4 there are lots of non-idiomatic shortcuts that can be used for optimizing performance in common cases
19:30 Calinou but you don't always have dozens of hours to do that
19:31 exio4 you should also benchmark libraries :)
19:32 Calinou feel free to write that in 3+ languages :P
19:32 Calinou it quickly gets impossible to maintain
19:34 exio4 why do you say that?
19:34 exio4 also, benchmarks shouldn't get tweaked that much
19:34 exio4 anyway enchmarks are also useless
19:34 exio4 because they don't show what the language is capable of doing
19:35 Calinou let's rewrite Linux to GDScript then
19:35 exio4 the best parts of a language can't be benchmarked automagically with a machine
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19:37 exio4 how do you benchmark "how easy to mantain" a program that way?
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19:41 neoascetic Hi all. Trying to migrate my world to redis and get this error: "Migration to redis is not supported". I have compiled server with hiredis support. What to do?
19:43 est31 is that the precise error message?
19:44 neoascetic Sorry, I was wrong. I thought that ENABLE_REDIS is set to true by default. Going to recompile it then
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19:45 blaise hrmm
19:45 blaise lmao
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19:58 neoascetic Hmm. Now I have "Set redis_address and redis_hash in world.mt to use the redis backend" message (however, I have them in the file).
19:58 neoascetic Maybe incorrect format? Now I have redis_address = 172.17.0.5 and redis_hash = world
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20:07 blaise so far so good with minetest-0.4.12.ebuild and minetest_game-0.4.12.ebuild
20:07 blaise :D
20:10 Halamix2 Calinou: http://codepaste.net/puaxqe
20:11 Calinou is that Pascal?
20:11 Halamix2 yup
20:11 Calinou quite obsolete, but I'll add it when I have time :P
20:11 Halamix2 it SHOULD work (I don't write in pascal but I've been learning it in school)
20:11 Halamix2 :)
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20:34 blaise the ebuild works
20:34 blaise perfectly
20:34 blaise yay
20:34 blaise I did it!
20:34 blaise took me almost a week!
20:34 blaise HEH
20:45 blaise sure is quiet in here
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20:52 edakiri blais3: tried exherbo?
20:52 edakiri blaise: ?
20:53 edakiri or I should write #exherbo
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21:03 blaise edakiri: what's that?
21:06 edakiri blaise: it is a distribution using Paludis, which should have been the new package manager for Gentoo if the old Gentoo initiator hadn't been dismissed from MS and returned to the project.
21:07 blaise edakiri: are you talking about Daniel?
21:07 edakiri I forget his name.
21:07 blaise edakiri: he forked and called it funtoo
21:07 blaise he also forked portage.. ditched rsync and uses git
21:08 blaise edakiri: he's in #funtoo with me and a bunch of other maintainers...
21:08 blaise I've been around since it was called Enoch
21:08 exio4 funtoo looks pretty cool
21:08 exio4 I haven't used funtoo though
21:08 exio4 only gentoo
21:09 blaise Drobbins didn't file the paperwork in time to prevent losing control over the gentoo name.. it had nothing to do with being dismissed from microsoft, nore did he work there.
21:09 blaise so he created funtoo after some of the other gentoo dev's jumped on his lazyness like a pack of hungry rabid wolves.
21:10 edakiri There was a core Gentoo developer who.... Maybe I'm confused and thinking of one from Red Hat.
21:11 blaise paludis wasn't created by the founder of gentoo.. it was a different gentoo developer that decided to go in a different direction than the other developers as far as portage goes..
21:11 edakiri No, I think it was Gentoo.
21:11 edakiri I didn't mean that Paludis was created by a founder of Gentoo.
21:11 blaise I believe paludis was an attempt to code a portage alternative in C
21:11 edakiri C++
21:11 blaise yeah
21:11 blaise I played with it when it first came out.. I wasn't really impressed with it at the time, although I was very interested in a C++ written alternative..
21:12 blaise I'm sure the guy has made some serious advancements though..
21:13 blaise I gotta run to the store, I'll brb
21:13 blaise :D
21:15 edakiri Before Exherbo, there was a small poll of people who had tried both portage and paludis on Gentoo. The majority answered that they prefered paludis.  That's why I'm estimating that the choice to remain with portage was more political than technical.
21:16 edakiri Though it seems you tried it also and didn't prefer it at that time. So I'll count that also.
21:18 edakiri Checked the tidings. Daniel Robbins did work at MS briefly.
21:21 edakiri I quit using Gentoo because they were exclusive, didn't want participation. Exherbo is the opposite.
21:22 edakiri At least the SPArc team of Gentoo was that way.
21:25 edakiri Drat. I didn't realize he disconnected his client.
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21:57 * blaise is back
22:07 blaise is this broken? 16:58:35: ERROR[CurlFetchThread]: servers.minetest.net/announce not found (Timeout was reached) (response code 0)
22:12 s-l-teichmann left #minetest
22:14 edakiri Before Exherbo, there was a small poll of people who had tried both portage and paludis on Gentoo. The majority answered that they prefered paludis.  That's why I'm estimating that the choice to remain with portage was more political than technical.
22:15 edakiri I quit using Gentoo because they (at least the SPArc team) were exclusive, didn't want participation. Exherbo expects participation.
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22:27 blaise !up midnightsystems.net
22:27 MinetestBot midnightsystems.net:30000 seems to be down
22:28 blaise poop
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22:44 LandMine Oldcoder
22:44 LandMine are you there?
22:46 LandMine VanessaE are you here?
22:52 blaise anyone know the range on the Quarry?
22:52 blaise radius limitation that is?
22:54 LandMine NekoGloop hi long tim e no see
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23:51 blaise sup?

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