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IRC log for #minetest, 2015-06-05

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:27 blaise joined #minetest
00:27 blaise Hello all..
00:27 blaise :D
00:27 blaise I don't suppose VanessaE is active, is she?
00:30 diemartin hello blaise
00:30 blaise diemartin: hello..
00:31 blaise VanessaE: plants_lib and default problem http://pastebin.com/E3E7cNTD
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00:43 Ep1cMaN hello everyone.
00:43 Ep1cMaN technic mod cnc machine broken as I cant find which blocks work?
00:45 blaise I can't get the server to load with a lot of the mods...
00:45 blaise technic, plantlife, mesecons
00:46 blaise it's rather disconcerting..
00:46 blaise I'm afraid to update my production minetest server...
00:47 blaise and it seems like no one has touched the hud mod in quite a while,
00:48 blaise I've tried both mesecons release, and mesecons git.. can't get them to work with minetest-0.4.10 or minetest-0.4.12
00:48 blaise :
00:48 blaise :G
01:05 Xenoth I have an issue compiling Minetest on Linux; do I ask here, or on #minetest-dev?
01:08 blaise here is fine
01:08 Xenoth During compilation, I get this: make[2]: *** No rule to make target '/usr/lib64/libz.so'
01:08 blaise compiling and developing are a bit different.. XD
01:08 blaise yes, you need libz
01:09 blaise Xenoth: what distro do you use?
01:09 blaise if you give me a sec, I'll tell you what contains libz
01:09 blaise :D
01:10 Xenoth blaise: Currently on Ubuntu 15.04.
01:10 Xenoth Thanks.
01:10 Xenoth I was just searching the apt cache for it
01:10 blaise Xenoth: what linux distro do you use?
01:10 blaise SuSE?
01:10 blaise RedHat?
01:10 blaise Slackware?
01:10 Xenoth Ubuntu, 15.04
01:10 * blaise facepalms
01:10 blaise k, just a sec
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01:26 kaeza_ Zlib?
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01:27 kaeza_ Did you install all dependencies listed in the README?
01:28 Xenoth kaeza_: Yessir
01:29 kaeza_ Xenoth, this may be useful: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=3837
01:37 Xenoth Thank you, had a few other unsettled dependencies, but it's all working now
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02:23 blaise damnit
02:23 blaise did anyone reply to my paste about plants_lib?
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02:29 Ep1cMaN is it worth having music using technic mod. Or soes it just become annoying?
02:29 Ep1cMaN does*
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02:37 Pilcrow hello all
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02:38 kaeza hey
02:39 blaise howdy
02:39 Pilcrow hi kaeza and blaise. how are you today/tonight?
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02:40 Pilcrow hey, is Chanku or OldCoder around? is this still going to happen: https://forum.minetest.net/vi​ewtopic.php?f=47&t=12199
02:42 Pilcrow kaeza_: did your internet just cut out? you seem to have changed names...  :P
02:43 kaeza_ Mobile connection sucks
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02:44 kaeza_ Tethering on mobile connection sucks even more
02:45 Pilcrow kaeza_: ah. that makes sense. at least there's the logs, so you don't have to miss bits of conversation...  ;)
03:00 Pilcrow Oh and blaise, I just read the irc log and saw your question about plants_lib. In the debug info you posted, it says "attempt to call field 'get_us_time' (a nil value)" but minetest.get_us_time() has existed since at least 0.4.11 (maybe even 0.4.10)... What version of minetest are you using?
03:05 OldCoder Hi
03:05 OldCoder Pilcrow, are you there?
03:06 OldCoder Pilcrow, PM please; the subject is important to me
03:06 Pilcrow ah, hello OldCoder
03:06 OldCoder PM
03:07 Ep1cMaN does any one know how to setup lava so that privs are required please?
03:17 jordan4ibanez !tell
03:17 MinetestBot jordan4ibanez: Need a nickname...
03:24 jordan4ibanez Hmmm
03:25 jordan4ibanez Time to find out how to get a circular reference
03:29 Wuzzy2 Does Minetest use UDP, TCP or both?
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03:57 jordan4ibanez Wuzzy2: http://dev.minetest.net/Network_Protocol
03:57 jordan4ibanez I don
03:57 jordan4ibanez I don't know networking though
03:58 Wuzzy2 ok thx
03:59 jordan4ibanez Did that answer the question?
04:06 * OldCoder worlds are down to relocate from one server to another
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04:19 fnrick Hello, does anyone know a good starting modding template for Minetest?  I'm looking around for something like boilerplate that has API for minetest already, so if anyone could point me in the right direction to that ,that'd be great!
04:23 jordan4ibanez RealBadAngel: People love your shader thing! https://www.reddit.com/r/Minetest/co​mments/38gf3g/realbadangels_shaders/
04:24 jordan4ibanez fnrick: What are you trying to make?
04:25 fnrick Anything simple, I'm in the process of learning modding
04:25 fnrick from making a block to entities
04:25 Pilcrow fnrick: minetest modding is much easier to get started with than most other games, as it has its own built-in API. not only that, the standard minetest_game is composed entirely of mods, so it's a perfect reference!
04:25 Wuzzy2 yes
04:25 fnrick I'm searching around to start my adventure on top of the common modding pack... like premade modding pack that I dont have to reinevent the wheel from scratch
04:26 fnrick Ok
04:26 fnrick I noticed that so I feel like I could do it!
04:27 jordan4ibanez We have a bunch of stuff fnrick: http://dev.minetest.net/minetest.register_node http://dev.minetest.net/minetest.register_entity http://dev.minetest.net/LuaEntitySAO https://github.com/PilzAdam/carts https://github.com/PilzAdam/item_drop https://github.com/PilzAdam/farming_plus  https://github.com/jordan4ibanez/Hoppers https://github.com/jordan4ibanez/node-gun https://github.com/minetest/mi​netest_game/tree/master/mods/
04:27 jordan4ibanez default
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04:28 fnrick oh neat!
04:28 jordan4ibanez Just look through other's people's code if you get stumped, or simply go insane and keep trying stuff even if it crashes the game
04:28 fnrick haha
04:28 jordan4ibanez This is my favorite help doc though https://github.com/minetest/mine​test/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt
04:29 jordan4ibanez I've never read the whole thing, I just search and scan through to see what I can do
04:29 fnrick Wow, quite of bit of content there!
04:30 jordan4ibanez Yes it is, you'll get it though, just make some nodes at first and have fun with it
04:31 Pilcrow fnrick: the easiest example to get started is to look in the games folder and explore minetest_game. it has a 'mods' folder that contains practically everything. if you look in default and edit nodes.lua, you can see how to register your own nodes (blocks).
04:31 jordan4ibanez But, the main thing is, you have to think of an idea
04:31 jordan4ibanez Also, peace out, goodnight, blah
04:31 Pilcrow for example, here's the code for default:stone  https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/b​lob/master/mods/default/nodes.lua#L147-155
04:33 fnrick ok thanks
04:34 Pilcrow then you can check the minetest dev wiki to figure out what can be changed (it has LOTS of information). http://dev.minetest.net/minetest.register_node
04:36 fnrick Plenty of information! I'm going to mod a new block, wish me luck!
04:36 fnrick Farewell
04:36 Pilcrow good luck!  :)
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06:42 technomancy Pilcrow: you're back! =)
06:42 technomancy I got a chance to look at hoverbot; it's pretty cool
06:48 Pilcrow thanks technomancy. I'd like to talk, but I really need to get to bed. will you be online tomorrow?  :)
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06:50 technomancy Pilcrow: probably some of the day, but happy to carry on some conversation in GH issues too
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09:02 JamesTait Good morning, people! Happy Friday, and happy World Environment Day! 😃
09:08 * ThatGraemeGuy burns some more fossil fuels to keep warm
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09:44 Calinou https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.p​hp?f=3&t=9172&p=180878#p180824
09:44 Calinou year of desktop linux!
09:44 Calinou memes!
09:44 Calinou i am better than you!
09:44 Calinou /s
10:03 jin_xi wut?
10:08 Calinou we have yet another person like that, that's what I meant, jin_xi
10:08 Calinou they pretend to know better than you and have the perfect solution; so far, all those people failed
10:09 jin_xi still, there is a point...
10:10 Calinou we have those regularly in the free software community
10:11 Calinou we know how they end up :P
10:42 Jordach "the best way to get a FOSS community moving is to be a troll and say x is better than y"
10:42 Jordach swallow yer feckin pride
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11:01 Calinou with Jordach it'd even be year of desktop BSD :)
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11:32 Amaz Does anyone have any idea how to make this code work? http://pastie.org/10225013
11:32 Amaz What I'm trying to do is take the groups from an object, add the group door = 1 to them, and then register the door...
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12:04 mecatninja now I have bald, naked elvs running aroun in only a leather apron in my minetest test world
12:07 Megaf_ Hi
12:08 technomancy had some ideas about loosening up depends.txt to make it more amenable to a third-party dependency tracker system: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.ph​p?f=5&t=12171&p=180889#p180889
12:08 technomancy any thoughts?
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12:27 * Calinou successfully wrote a Go program
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12:27 Calinou http://paste.ubuntu.com/11587247/
12:27 blaaaaargh technomancy, personally, I think it would be wasteful to include URLs and the like, plus prone to error
12:28 exio4 Calinou: a perfect solution? systemd you mean?
12:28 Calinou finds numbers 1-56000 to 1-58000 in 1 second
12:28 Calinou (it's a dumb prime number generator)
12:29 blaaaaargh We already have an official mod repository, so why not consult it to get download locations?
12:30 Calinou the mmdb sucks, it's flawed
12:30 Calinou I'd rather have something npm-like with GUI frontends
12:30 Calinou npm is awesome
12:31 Calinou I wonder if we could use something like bower (preferably something GPL-compatible; npm isn't as it's Artistic 2.0) for our “mpm” (Minetest Package Manager)
12:31 Calinou you could use that mpm to install mods, subgames, texture packs, maps maybe
12:31 exio4 managing dependencies isn't trivial
12:32 exio4 if we rework and get a `package manager`, I'd integrate it with the engine, such that then, libraries, become possible without too much pain
12:32 blaaaaargh Calinou, Indeed, it sucks as of now, but I was referring mainly to the underlying database
12:32 Calinou npm has dependency management
12:32 Calinou so does most package managers today :P
12:33 blaaaaargh Also...
12:33 exio4 Calinou: npm solves it by copying everything into the package
12:33 * blaaaaargh hugs exio4
12:33 Calinou static linking isn't a problem in 2015, it's no longer a taboo :P
12:33 exio4 Calinou: that's amazing, nice, cute, as long as vulnerabilities weren't found, or bugs weren't fixed
12:33 * exio4 hugs blaaaaargh
12:33 exio4 Calinou: static linking isn't the problem
12:33 blaaaaargh Dis kb sux
12:34 exio4 Calinou: I am talking about the way to solve dependencies on `npm`
12:34 exio4 it's not about saying "oh, anything with certain APIs will work"
12:34 exio4 it's more like "here have a bundle with the version X.Y.Z of this dependency!"
12:34 exio4 if X.Y.Z+1 happened to fix a bug and 4 0day vulns, sad
12:35 exio4 Calinou: static linking is a low-level detail, fwiw
12:35 exio4 Calinou: you don't even `link` things with node
12:36 Amaz Does anyone have any ideas about my question? :) Should I re-paste it?
12:38 kaeza Amaz use groups.door=1 minetest.override_item("foo", {groups=groups})
12:38 Amaz Thanks :)
12:39 kaeza ...or something like that... can't code here ;(
12:39 exio4 {groups={door=1}} ?
12:40 kaeza exio4, no
12:40 kaeza That would override the groups with oly doors discarding the rest
12:40 kaeza Only*
12:41 kaeza He wants to add a group if I understood correctly
12:42 exio4 oh
12:42 exio4 add
12:43 Amaz Yep :)
12:44 Amaz That works brilliantly kaeza! Thanks!
12:45 kaeza Sure :)
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12:53 kaeza Hey, go looks actually readable. Contrary to the bf that is haskell :D
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12:56 blaise moin
12:56 blaise anyone know anything about this? http://pastebin.com/E3E7cNTD
12:57 Calinou http://dl.hugo.pro/benchmarks/prime/
12:57 Calinou Python benchmark available, PyPy-compliant
12:57 blaise Calinou: nice.
12:58 Calinou pypy main.py & sleep 1; killall pypy
12:58 Calinou you can benchmark it like that
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13:00 rubenwardy blaise, you need to update your Minetest version
13:00 rubenwardy nevermind
13:00 rubenwardy I was reading from this: https://github.com/minetest/minetest​/blame/master/doc/lua_api.txt#L1668
13:01 rubenwardy But it's been modified since get_us_time() was added. What version are you using, anyway>
13:01 blaise I tried that, XD
13:01 rubenwardy ?
13:01 rubenwardy Ok then.
13:01 blaise 0.4.12
13:01 blaise in fact, I keep everything rather gitish
13:01 rubenwardy The only possible situation I can think of is that your computer is poccessed
13:01 blaise @B^D
13:01 blaise posessed?
13:02 rubenwardy lol yes
13:02 kaeza Possessed
13:02 blaise hehe
13:02 rubenwardy or you live in a particularly high neutrino area
13:02 blaise Possessied
13:02 blaise rubenwardy: considering the recent solar activity, that's a distinct possibility.. XD
13:03 rubenwardy hmmm. Are you also using the latest plantslib?
13:03 blaise indeederly so
13:03 blaise every day I do a git pull
13:03 blaise nothing has been updated..
13:05 blaise rubenwardy: is this you? http://git-wt-commit.rubyforge.org/git-wtf
13:06 kaeza blaise  are you sure you are not running the wrong 'minetest'?
13:06 technomancy Calinou: yes, the reason npm can use its "bundle everything" strategy is that JS modules can just be nested in a way that you can carry around a private internal version of a lib
13:06 kaeza Also did you run 'make' after pulling?
13:06 technomancy lua libraries can do the same thing, but minetest mods cannot afaik
13:07 kaeza (It happened to me once)
13:07 technomancy anyway, just because we can't do it that way doesn't mean it's not worth doing
13:07 technomancy where's the "official" mod repository btw?
13:07 technomancy I've been playing with MT for a couple weeks now and have never seen it
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13:08 blaise kaeza: yes, and I always make clean and remake after every pull
13:08 kaeza technomancy https://forum.minetest.net/mmdb/
13:09 kaeza blaise, no idea then
13:09 technomancy kaeza: thanks
13:10 technomancy does it to subgames too?
13:10 kaeza Not AFAIK
13:12 blaise actually, if you're playing locally, and you place your mods in ~/.minetest/mods/
13:12 blaise then yes
13:12 blaise they can be available to all subgames.. and used if enabled
13:13 blaise but that magic wont work in worthless operating systems like windows
13:13 blaise XD
13:13 rubenwardy blaise: I didn't write that, no. Why?
13:14 blaise rubenwardy: just curious..
13:14 technomancy well maybe if there's a centralized repo that works well and has a good API then adding URLs to depends.txt doesn't make sense
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13:15 rubenwardy It's by "William": http://git-wt-commit.rubyforge.org/
13:15 rubenwardy MMDB is broken at the moment :( It should be fixed soon
13:15 rubenwardy I also said that 6 months ago
13:16 technomancy rubenwardy: is it usually stable enough to use to build automated tooling?
13:16 kaeza Lol
13:17 rubenwardy You can't current add, edit or comment on anything. It's works as an API though, you can get what's there
13:17 rubenwardy AFAIK
13:18 kaeza If all else fails, try a forum spider
13:19 exio4 kaeza: Go looks readable because it's just the same stuff with a crappy type system, not offering a lot of new stuff
13:19 exio4 kaeza: if it was for concurrency, I'd look for erlang, not go
13:20 exio4 parallelism isn't Go's thing, either
13:20 technomancy lol go's type system
13:20 exio4 ^ technomancy said the words
13:20 kaeza :<
13:21 technomancy exio4: "Go has the potential to be the next C." / "You mean it could hold back progress in programming for decades?" / "Yeah, exactly."
13:21 exio4 if you say Go is static typed, that it has a type system, it's an insult to real programming languages :D
13:21 exio4 technomancy: lol
13:21 exio4 technomancy: C was pretty good though, just check when it was used as first!
13:22 technomancy true, it's hardly a fair comparison.
13:22 exio4 technomancy: people believed C was god's language.. and well, we're here
13:23 exio4 anyway, Go is static typed as much as Java, IIRC, no?
13:24 exio4 (basically dynamic typed with annotations)
13:24 technomancy Java has generics, but yeah they are close.
13:24 technomancy they both have null >_<
13:25 exio4 Java's generics are so well implemented you could say they aren't generics
13:25 Calinou Lua has 5500 “points” in the prime benchmark, LuaJIT 22000
13:25 Calinou (points = highest prime reached in 1 second)
13:25 exio4 which prime benchmark?
13:25 Calinou I'll put a table up soon
13:25 Calinou http://dl.hugo.pro/benchmarks/prime/
13:25 Calinou the Lua port is available
13:26 Calinou ports welcome: Java, Scala, Haskell (!), Ruby, Rust, …
13:26 Calinou any modern language
13:26 blaise hrmm
13:26 Calinou even C#
13:26 Calinou but please keep in mind: keep your generator dumb, don't use any smart checks, follow existing style
13:27 exio4 does it have to be idiomatic code
13:27 exio4 or `optimized` code?
13:27 Calinou look at the current code
13:27 exio4 Calinou: I mean, a loop isn't idiomatic in Haskell
13:27 Calinou I don't know about FP stuff, do whatever is the fastest
13:27 Calinou but don't waste time overoptimizing
13:27 exio4 will write both
13:27 Calinou yeah, in doubt write both
13:27 Calinou thanks :)
13:28 Calinou I might include both
13:28 exio4 Calinou: do you have `ghc`, by the way?
13:28 Calinou installing it
13:29 technomancy for alioth at least it becomes a competition of "which language has the FFI system that has the lowest overhead to call out to C?" which is pretty useless
13:29 Calinou how many Haskell compilers are there? are there JIT interpreters?
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13:29 Calinou technomancy, my benchmark does show obvious patterns, that you can usually find in the real world
13:29 Calinou less is more
13:30 exio4 Calinou: the `standard` compiler is GHC, there are others out there, with different targets
13:30 exio4 GHC is the `state-of-art` compiler in HAskell, though, with 20+ years of engineering on it :P
13:30 technomancy Calinou: I worry that focusing on primes would penalize languages that don't have unboxed numerics, which doesn't really matter for application-level coding
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13:31 exio4 technomancy: shush!
13:31 exio4 I was going to make sure the code would use unboxed integers :(
13:32 technomancy anyway, what I like to say is there's no such thing as a fast programming language, only fast programs
13:32 exio4 ^ that too
13:32 exio4 programming languages have implementations too
13:32 exio4 they are not a thing by themselves
13:33 technomancy it can be fun to game though as long as you don't take it too seriously =)
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13:35 exio4 I have a problem with the code
13:36 exio4 while nb_test < nb ;
13:36 exio4 shouldn't that print be "outside"?
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13:36 exio4 it seems it'd be print things too many times
13:37 Calinou technomancy, I'll put a disclaimer obviously
13:37 Calinou LuaJIT appears quite slower than PyPy, despite LuaJIT generally being faster in real applications
13:38 exio4 I mean, it also doesn't show just primes
13:38 Calinou exio4, did you test one of the Python/Lua/Go programs? those seem fine to me
13:38 exio4 yes, I tested the lua program
13:38 exio4 and it generated a number whose last digit is five
13:38 Calinou the Lua one might be wrong
13:38 technomancy Calinou: using ints in luajit?
13:39 Calinou nope, I target 5.1+
13:39 exio4 so it's heavily biased :P
13:39 Calinou exio4, send me a fixed version of the Lua one if you know how to do it :P
13:39 technomancy Calinou: well that would explain the speed difference
13:39 Calinou I can make a 5.3 version if needed
13:39 technomancy try pypy with floats =P
13:39 exio4 the Go code looks also wrong
13:40 exio4 Calinou: what are the first five numbers out of the go program?
13:40 exio4 3,5,7,49,49
13:41 exio4 lua ^
13:43 Calinou 11,17,23,27,29
13:43 Calinou some numbers are missed?
13:43 exio4 27 isn't prime
13:43 Calinou and 27 isn't prime indeed
13:43 exio4 27 is 3^3
13:43 Calinou 13 is prime and not in list
13:44 exio4 I wouldn't mind primes missing, but the benchmark is just generating random numbers, which is testing how the compiler optimizes loops
13:44 Calinou do you have pointers on how to fix the Go/Lua ones?
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13:45 exio4 I'd split the code first
13:46 exio4 also, printing numbers means the bottleneck may become the console
13:46 exio4 because the console is slow
13:47 technomancy especially if you add erlang to the mix
13:48 exio4 Calinou: did you try splitting the isPrime condition to a different function, and try to fix it standalone?
13:50 exio4 the smaller the function, the easier it is to fix it :)
13:51 Calinou in Go, should I use functions like_this or likeThis?
13:52 exio4 I don't know, I guess underscores are idiomatic there
13:52 Calinou looks like it should be likeThis…
13:52 Calinou https://golang.org/doc/effective_go.html#functions
13:59 exio4 Calinou: I wrote the non-idiomatic version of a prime number generator, takes a number as argument, -1 means `keep generating`, n specifies the max value, http://dpaste.com/0289NVX
14:01 Calinou quite short, but looks cryptic to me
14:01 Calinou I'm still working on Go one
14:01 Calinou starting to get the hang of Go :P
14:02 exio4 Calinou: yes, that isn't idiomatic
14:05 exio4 an idiomatic version would be something like http://dpaste.com/01BRM98
14:06 exio4 (the main difference is that the `idiomatic` one generates (a relatively-cheap yet not free) lazy list with elements, instead of "naively" going through the values
14:07 exio4 Calinou: try both on your computer, if you have some time
14:07 exio4 the non idiomatic version does hella extra work
14:08 Calinou is Haskell always that short and cryptic?
14:10 exio4 it's not cryptic :P
14:10 technomancy this one even has type annotations; those are optional
14:10 exio4 I wrote that type annotation for unboxing reasons
14:10 technomancy ah nice
14:10 CWz is it me or  minecraft devs got sloppy after being purchased by microsoft?
14:11 rubenwardy example?
14:11 Calinou they were always sloppy, I guess
14:11 technomancy CWz: they weren't sloppy before?
14:11 exio4 technomancy: it'd use Integer
14:11 CWz there like 3 bug fix version releases in a row
14:12 Halamix2 http://dpaste.com/00QA7PM ?
14:12 Calinou thanks Halamix2
14:12 Calinou will test
14:12 AnotherBrick does anyone know how to contact GunshipPenguin, owner of two (or more servers) ?
14:12 rubenwardy If you build a shrine, he'll be summoned
14:13 rubenwardy !fmu GunshipPenguin
14:13 rubenwardy !fmusr GunshipPenguin
14:13 rubenwardy !help
14:13 MinetestBot https://github.com/sfan5/minetestb​ot-modules/blob/master/COMMANDS.md
14:13 exio4 Calinou: prime :: Int -> Bool means pretty much "prime has type Int to Bool"; then, all fn list means that the predicate `fn` must be True on `all` elements of list
14:13 rubenwardy heh, it's been removed
14:13 AnotherBrick !seen GunshipPenguin
14:13 MinetestBot AnotherBrick: Sorry, I haven't seen gunshippenguin around.
14:14 sfan5 rubenwardy: find forum user?
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14:14 CWz I heard yesterday that Hungry game server was griefed
14:14 exio4 (\x -> n `mod` x /= 0) is a lambda / anonymous function, takes a y as parameter an says thatthe modulo of n % x is distinct to zero
14:14 AnotherBrick yeah
14:14 AnotherBrick that's why I'm looking for him
14:14 CWz Probably hipster trolls
14:15 exio4 2:[3,5..s] is a list that has the values 2, 3, 5, 7, ... until s
14:15 exio4 s is defined as the ceil of the square root of the number n
14:16 exio4 loop, instead, basically defines a local variable xs, if z is -1, it'll start from x, to "infinite" (x, x+1, x+2, ... x+n ...)
14:16 Calinou Halamix2, 130000 in 1 second, impressive
14:16 exio4 if it is not, it'll be a list from x to z, [x, x+1, x+2, ..., z-2, z-1, z]
14:16 Calinou I guess it's a corner case because Rust isn't that fast usually
14:16 rubenwardy !ffu GunshipPenguin
14:16 technomancy it's not?
14:16 rubenwardy ~ffu GunshipPenguin
14:17 exio4 Calinou: unboxed integers, it's also kinda fast
14:17 exio4 it has unboxed closures dammit! they must be fast! :p
14:17 Calinou btw: https://attractivechaos.github.io/plb/
14:17 Calinou doesn't have Rust
14:17 rubenwardy https://forum.minetest.net/memberli​st.php?mode=viewprofile&amp;u=9079
14:17 rubenwardy AnotherBrick ^^
14:17 rubenwardy AnotherBrick ^ ^
14:18 AnotherBrick yay
14:18 AnotherBrick thx
14:18 exio4 the equivalent of loop in Haskell is either forever $ for IO actions and/or an infinite list when it comes to values
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14:19 exio4 Rust mandates TCO, right?
14:19 Calinou Total Cost of Ownership? ;)
14:19 est31 no tail something optimisation
14:20 est31 so that you can replace loops with recursion
14:20 est31 and have no memory penalty
14:20 est31 nor perf penalty
14:21 rubenwardy > let
14:21 Calinou dank meme indeed, rubenwardy
14:21 Calinou </Jordach>
14:21 rubenwardy Well, not as bad as "otherwise!
14:21 rubenwardy * "overwise"
14:22 exio4 otherwise is just defined as True, it's for cosmetic reasons
14:22 rubenwardy in haskel?
14:22 exio4 some people call it `else`
14:22 exio4 yes rubenwardy
14:22 rubenwardy oh, that would make sence
14:22 rubenwardy *sense
14:22 exio4 guards take arbitrary expressions
14:22 rubenwardy Like NULL = 0
14:23 exio4 f | C1 = E1 | C2 = E2 | ...
14:23 exio4 Cn may be an arbitrary expression, that includes constants like `True`
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14:30 exio4 Calinou: one thing, would you consider this http://dl.hugo.pro/benchmarks/prime/lua/init.lua code easy to understand if you didn't know the semantics of `while`, assignment and %?
14:31 exio4 while nb_test < 2 do, while that condition is true do this thing? while that condition is false?
14:31 exio4 %? is that modulo? integer division?
14:33 exio4 nb_test = nb_test + 1, does it changes the value up there? or.. what?
14:33 exio4 Calinou: TCO is Tail Call Optimization
14:33 exio4 Calinou: basically recursion of the form `return f(x)` gets optimized to a `jump` to f
14:35 exio4 implementing FSM is a nice usecase
14:39 est31 FSM? Arr, god is no program!
14:43 Calinou exio4, probably not
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14:46 exio4 Calinou: the same goes for any language out there
14:46 exio4 Calinou: now that you know what a while loop means, understanding it becomes `trivial` (relatively), yet unknown concepts are still hard!
14:49 exio4 any language concept*
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15:08 Calinou OK, my Go program is fixed thanks to palige
15:08 Calinou 70000 in 1 second
15:08 Calinou not bad
15:10 Halamix2 :)
15:11 exio4 Calinou: may you benchmark mine? also, console!
15:11 exio4 text output is a bottleneck
15:12 Calinou exio4, I use this: ./binary & sleep 1; kill binary
15:12 Calinou seems to be appropriate
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15:12 exio4 uh, sleep 1 is not accurate
15:12 exio4 do it within the program, too
15:13 exio4 generate primes until 1000000
15:13 Calinou yeah that's doable too
15:13 Calinou and time it
15:13 Calinou I'd rather have something “higher is better” though
15:16 exio4 use 1/seconds for generating N primes as the score
15:16 exio4 still, you have to account the console output
15:16 exio4 console output is extremely slow
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15:20 blaise wow
15:21 blaise so the plants_lib issue I was having went away when I installed VanessaEs HDX textures
15:21 blaise lmao
15:21 blaise isn't that awesome?
15:21 exio4 Calinou: also, running the benchmark 20 or 50 times, and take the average + least + max time
15:22 exio4 that's.. weird blaise
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15:56 Myrl-chan Hi!
15:57 Myrl-chan I'll try to run minetest on a P4 with a VIA chipset.
16:05 blaise Myrl-chan: oh yeah?
16:06 Myrl-chan I wanna see how this works.
16:06 Myrl-chan I'll be  really amazed.
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16:38 Myrl-chan How do I get out of minimal development test..?
16:39 est31 you mean you want to use minetest_game?
16:39 Myrl-chan Yes.
16:39 est31 how have you obtained the engine?
16:39 Myrl-chan Through my package manager. If I understand you correctly.
16:40 Myrl-chan I pressed this button that looks like 3 axes
16:40 est31 yes
16:40 Myrl-chan And now I'm in minimal development test and I can't get out.
16:40 est31 thats minimal development test
16:40 est31 if minetest_game is installed then there is another button left to it
16:41 Myrl-chan Doesn't seem so.
16:41 est31 so you say before you wasnt in minimal development test?
16:41 Myrl-chan Yes.
16:41 est31 are you inside the singleplayer tab?
16:42 Myrl-chan Yes
16:42 est31 no buttons there?
16:43 est31 only the button with the arrows?
16:43 Myrl-chan Yeah
16:43 est31 is there a button that looks like this https://raw.githubusercontent.com/minetest/​minetest/master/textures/base/pack/logo.png
16:44 Myrl-chan Nope.
16:44 Myrl-chan I guess I'll recompile it.
16:44 est31 are there games inside your "games" folder?
16:45 est31 or only minimal
16:46 Myrl-chan Only minimal.
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16:46 est31 then you have to install minetest game
16:47 est31 you know how to use git?
16:48 est31 if not thats no issue
16:48 est31 just download minetest game here: https://github.com/minetest/mi​netest_game/archive/master.zip
16:48 Myrl-chan Yeah, I know how to use git.
16:48 Myrl-chan It isn't playable on a VIA chipset though, I think 10 FPS or so.
16:49 Myrl-chan I'll definitely be looking in this once I get a better computer though.
16:49 Myrl-chan Thanks for the support, est31.
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16:52 VanessaE est31: he was in that "limbo" state when no game at all is selected.
16:53 Myrl-chan VanessaE: Yeah.
16:53 Myrl-chan I think that's it.
16:53 VanessaE a fresh install with no user preferences will put the user into that state.  click the only game that's installed, and you're "stuck" there because there's no route back into "limbo"
16:53 Myrl-chan I pressed the "new game" and it had an error message.
16:54 VanessaE that's a bug for sure - the engine should auto-select a game if it's in that state.
16:54 VanessaE should be made to*
16:54 Myrl-chan Yep.
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17:08 CWz oh look shadowbot is back.
17:14 * blaise hugs VanessaE
17:16 VanessaE hi
17:17 CWz VanessaE: Shadowninja is back maybe he can save inchra. probably not though if recall correctly reclaiming domains that have gone expired cost more then renewal
17:17 VanessaE CWz: that's already been fixed.
17:17 CWz inchra.net is back?
17:18 VanessaE yes
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17:31 ShadowNinja CWz: It costs the same -- unless your registrar is cheating you or something.
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18:15 bobomb if a node is replaced by set_node, is after_destruct() called on the old node?
18:25 VanessaE yes
18:25 VanessaE because removing a node is equal to setting it to air
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19:22 bobomb is on_dig the same as on_destruct?
19:22 bobomb or is it only if a player digs the node, not if other operations remove it?
19:22 bobomb or is it not even about destroying the node, more like punching it?
19:23 VanessaE +
19:23 VanessaE oops
19:23 VanessaE it's only for when a player digs a node yeah
19:24 VanessaE a mod just doing a set_node() call won't trigger that
19:24 VanessaE (but should trigger on_destruct)
19:24 bobomb i see. thanks.
19:24 Calinou prime number generator in LuaJIT: highest number 55889 in 1 second!
19:24 Calinou this makes it close to Rust
19:24 VanessaE test for 10+ seconds
19:25 VanessaE a 1-second test isn't enough to get above margin of error.
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19:27 bobomb to compare results wouldn't you compare the times it takes to get to a certain prime, not the prime you get to in a certain time?
19:27 Calinou both can be done, I think
19:27 Calinou it's just a bit simpler this way, and this way you get an “higher is better” result
19:27 Calinou instead of lower is better
19:28 bobomb if a node is registered with "drop" that replaces what it would have become in the inventory otherwise?
19:28 VanessaE yep
19:28 VanessaE but only when it's dug
19:29 bobomb of course. what's the best way to make a node drop nothing or not be in the inventory?
19:29 VanessaE that's how stone with iron gives you an iron lump on-dig, for example
19:29 bobomb right
19:29 bobomb drop = "" ?
19:30 VanessaE set, drop = ""  I think
19:30 bobomb ok
19:30 VanessaE better to have it drop something that's all but useless though
19:30 Calinou when are commas mandatory in Lua? I don't get it :/
19:30 VanessaE Calinou: because they're part of a table?
19:30 Calinou is that the only reason?
19:31 VanessaE that's the only thing they're used for afaik
19:31 kahrl between function arguments too
19:31 VanessaE oh yes
19:31 VanessaE duh :P
19:31 VanessaE Calinou: the real question is, what else would you use as a delimiter?
19:32 Calinou whitespace ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
19:32 Calinou </Python>
19:32 VanessaE newline isn't good enough because you can (and should be able to) concat between lines too
19:32 Calinou yeah, right
19:32 Calinou I'd prefer ; over , though
19:32 Calinou just like != over ~=
19:32 VanessaE actually, doesn't ; work also?
19:33 VanessaE I could swear I've seen someone using ; for table delim
19:34 VanessaE hm, only as a statement separator like in C.
19:35 VanessaE that aside, I agree that != is better than ~=
19:35 VanessaE (to me, ~= reads as "approximately equal")
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19:40 Calinou same
19:40 Calinou if only languages were actually Unicode-compliant
19:41 Calinou we could write if string ≠ “Quote”
19:41 Calinou :3
19:41 Calinou imagine people wondering how to type ≠
19:41 VanessaE lol
19:42 bobomb when you use table.insert in lua, what is the best way to get the key of that insert?
19:42 VanessaE that's easy..  compose, =, / -->  ≠
19:42 VanessaE :)
19:42 Calinou Shift + AltGr + ) here
19:42 VanessaE bobomb: it always inserts at the end of the table if you don't specify otherwise
19:42 VanessaE so #tablename  will give you the index of last item in the table
19:43 VanessaE (assuming you're not working with sparse tables)
19:43 bobomb oh. is that why #tablename doesn't work when the keys are strings?
19:43 VanessaE yep
19:43 bobomb is that what sparse table means?
19:43 VanessaE not exactly
19:44 VanessaE a sparse table is one where you might have 1=foo, and then 4=bar, 5=baz and then 8=blah
19:44 VanessaE (with no 2, 3, 6, or 7)
19:44 VanessaE # just doesn't work with string-keyed tables
19:45 bobomb got it. thanks
19:45 VanessaE (for that, btw, use table.getn() )
19:51 bobomb is there a chance that a table could have another insert done to it from another operation between the time that insert is done #table is called?
19:51 Calinou preliminary results of the prime generator: http://paste.ubuntu.com/11595216/
19:51 Calinou Go is the fastest
19:51 bobomb why can't table.insert just return the new id
19:52 Calinou I have a C one around, but it'd be cheating since it uses GMP and a table :P
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19:52 VanessaE bobomb: because it never needs to.  it always inserts at the end of the table unless you explicitly give it an index location
19:52 bobomb i need more faith
19:53 VanessaE so you can use table.getn() or # as needed if you're not using a sparse table, and if you supplied an index, you already know where it went.
19:54 VanessaE nothing is going to add to or otherwise modify the table unless you coded it to do that, or you're running another mod that accesses the same table.
19:54 VanessaE (and the latter case is quite rare.  I think only moreblocks+stairsplus is the only major project that relies on that)
19:57 bobomb ok. new question.  does lua support this sort of thing modname.tablename[id].list[1]
19:59 VanessaE it should
20:00 VanessaE never tried burying references that deep before
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20:00 VanessaE as long as every element in tablename[] has at least as many sub-elements as you call for in any one list[] argument
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20:01 bobomb so setting table[k] = nil should only be done with string-keyed tables or it will create a sparse table?
20:01 bobomb otherwise use table.remove?
20:01 VanessaE i.e. if you ask for tablename[5].list[4]  should exist if tablename[3].list[4] does for example.
20:02 kaeza greetings
20:02 VanessaE you can set foo[bar] = nil if you want, but it can mess up your table size expectations
20:02 VanessaE hey kaeza
20:02 VanessaE eh, that previous sentence came out weird but whatever
20:03 VanessaE bobomb: bottom line is, if you rely on the size of a table for something, and there's any chance your code will do tablename[foo] = nil where foo is not the last element in the table, use table.getn() to measure its size.
20:03 VanessaE or if the table uses string keys
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20:04 VanessaE otherwise, # should be safe.
20:04 bobomb is there a built in lua function for finding a key given a value in a table?
20:04 bobomb can't find one
20:04 VanessaE not that I can recall.
20:05 VanessaE you'll have to manually traverse the table.
20:05 kaeza bobomb, easily done with a `pairs` loop, but there isn't one built-in
20:05 bobomb why i like string indexes
20:05 VanessaE string, number... use whatever indexing makes the most sense in your project :)
20:06 VanessaE plants_lib uses a position hash for its main block cache table indexes, for example.
20:06 bobomb finding i much prefer a table of cells to be built like cell_list[minetest.pos_to_string(pos)] = true to table.insert(cell_list, pos)
20:06 VanessaE and numeric indexes for the entries in those tables.
20:07 kaeza bobomb, if you can also use `hash_node_position` in that case
20:07 bobomb oh reading on that.
20:07 kaeza it returns a unique 48 bit number given a pos
20:08 VanessaE (by that I mean, blockcache[2517435].entry[1], blockcache[2517435].entry[2], blockcache[83463820].entry[1], blockcache[83463820].entry[2], etc)
20:08 kaeza (assuming you want whole nodes and not fractional positions)
20:08 bobomb yes. is it faster than pos_to_string?
20:08 bobomb and smaller i guess
20:09 kaeza probably, but you'd be better to profile if you care about performance
20:09 bobomb profile?
20:10 kaeza "time" it
20:11 bobomb oh i see. yes i will.
20:13 blaise joined #minetest
20:13 * blaise is back
20:24 Calinou http://dl.hugo.pro/benchmarks/
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20:30 blaise hey, uhrm
20:30 blaise has the recipe for a nuclear reactor changed?
20:33 s-l-teichmann Calinou: You should not use println() in your Go version. println() writes to stderr not stdout, its for debugging and bootstrapping http://golang.org/pkg/builtin/#println Better use Printf from the fmt package.  Something like http://play.golang.org/p/ord0ljimEu
20:37 Calinou s-l-teichmann, was not aware, thanks
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21:09 rjs232323 is nodeupdate function predefined natively by minetest ?
21:09 rjs232323 I see people using it, but I'm not sure what is its for
21:28 blaise hey, uhrm
21:28 blaise anyone here used the quary?
21:28 blaise the HV Quary?
21:29 blaise where is the output?
21:29 VanessaE the output comes out the top, using pipeworks tubes
21:30 VanessaE rjs232323: nodeupdate is used to force falling/attached nodes to fall if they didn't yet (e.g. sand, gravel, apples) and I think it forces a lighting update too
21:30 VanessaE it is defined in one of minetest's builtin/ lua files.
21:34 blaise cool
21:35 blaise so it fills it's hold, and then purges? if I'm reading the lua properly?
21:35 VanessaE yep, to a degree
21:35 VanessaE it's supposed to purge periodically as well
21:35 VanessaE (or I thought it did)
21:35 blaise and if not, we have popout syndrom?
21:36 VanessaE I don't remember.  it probably just stops digging
21:36 blaise D:
21:53 blaise meh, I need the anchor mod
21:54 blaise :G
21:56 blaise holy crap!
21:56 blaise it's included in technic now?
21:56 blaise awesome sauce!
21:58 rjs232323 VanessaE: i see
21:58 rjs232323 I'm still suck in meta:set_string and get_string
21:58 rjs232323 there is a strange behavior with it
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22:00 rjs232323 everytime I assign something to a position, it overwrite previous values on the different position... bug?
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22:07 blaise VanessaE: are we able to use teleporting tubes to fuel the reactor core yet?
22:07 blaise or, any tubes?
22:10 rjs232323 http://pastebin.com/hThwsUnx  Here's my finding with this strnage bug
22:10 VanessaE blaise: I don't recall.
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23:23 blaise it's really too bad this never made it to github.. https://forum.minetest.net/v​iewtopic.php?f=11&amp;t=4587
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23:28 kaeza rjs232323, get_meta(name) ?
23:29 Niebieski I wonder if anyone has bought Minecraft and plays Minetest.
23:29 NekoGloop I play minetest occasionally
23:29 Niebieski Do you play Minecraft ?
23:30 kaeza rjs232323, what are you trying to do?
23:30 est31 blaise, I can upload it to github if you want
23:30 NekoGloop yes I play minecraft
23:31 Niebieski Why do you play Minetest then ?
23:31 kaeza rjs232323, also, you're using a colon instead of a dot in the minetest.get_meta call (it must be a period)
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23:32 kaeza (line 39 in your paste)
23:32 blaise I also have minecraft
23:32 blaise and I chose minetest instead
23:32 blaise it's better
23:33 blaise I can't even play minecraft on more than half my machines
23:33 blaise it runs better, it has better graphics
23:33 blaise minetest, that is..
23:33 blaise minecraft is a thing of the past
23:34 blaise I think it's the java that hurts it the most
23:34 blaise minetest is coded in ANSI C, if I'm not mistaken..
23:34 est31 c++
23:34 Niebieski C++.
23:35 est31 using stdlib, no boost nor irrlicht (for basic things like containers)
23:35 blaise not to mention, I dont condone the use of microsoft products.
23:39 rickmcfarley I played minetest before buying Minecraft, but I haven't even touched Minecraft since Microsoft bought Mojang. since then I avoid any proprietary game
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23:41 Niebieski is it because you hate MS or you think that MS going to ruin it ?
23:42 rickmcfarley I hate ms
23:42 blaise Niebieski: I'm going with both
23:42 blaise option a, and option b
23:42 ADFENO Could someone point me to the so called "intllib" cited by various "depends.txt" documents found in various mods for Minetest?
23:42 rickmcfarley It taught me to distrust even nonfree games
23:42 rickmcfarley games used to be my software freedom compromise
23:42 kaeza ADFENO, https://github.com/kaeza/minetest-inrllib
23:43 kaeza eh wrong link
23:43 blaise kaeza: what are that?
23:43 kaeza https://github.com/kaeza/minetest-intllib
23:44 kaeza blaise, what is what?
23:44 ADFENO Oh, thank you very much. :D
23:44 kaeza yw
23:45 Niebieski I don't think that MS going to risk on Minecraft, they will let the developers continue their work freely.
23:47 rjs232323 Kaeza: Ah?  I tho I see everyone using colon when calling meta get meta
23:47 rjs232323 Would that explain why it behaves strangely?
23:48 kaeza rjs232323, `minetest.get_meta`, not `meta:get_meta`
23:48 rjs232323 minetest:get_meta(name);
23:48 rjs232323 this is what I'm using
23:48 kaeza no
23:48 kaeza use a dot there
23:48 rjs232323 could you explain the difference between minetest:get_meta and minetest.get_meta?
23:48 rjs232323 is it a referencing thing?
23:48 kaeza in Lua, a call `foo:bar(asdf)` is syntactic sugar for `foo.bar(foo, asdf)`
23:49 rjs232323 ah
23:49 kaeza so you're basically calling `minetest.get_meta(minetest, ...)
23:49 kaeza +`
23:49 kaeza it's Lua's way to implement OO
23:50 rjs232323 ok
23:50 rjs232323 strange
23:51 DMackey joined #minetest
23:51 kaeza you'll get used to it :)
23:51 rjs232323 I will have to change my script to dot
23:51 rjs232323 I have to cook
23:51 rjs232323 i'll be back
23:51 rjs232323 I appricate your insight, that might be the issue after all
23:51 kaeza also, you're using `name`; maybe you meant `pos` ?
23:57 est31 blaise, why would be github better than a zip file?
23:57 est31 I mean, I know its easier to update once you have a git origin

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