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IRC log for #minetest, 2014-12-30

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:00 VanessaE this is different from the usual....how?
00:00 VanessaE ;)
00:03 kaeza to be fair, it has been very stable the last couple of months :/
00:04 Cylus joined #minetest
00:04 kaeza except for the ocassional HexChat lockup / VBox crash / power cut / zombie apocalypse
00:05 VanessaE haha
00:05 kaeza my connection I mean; the modem has been quite stable :I
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00:06 kaeza I even had a BSOD for the first time in 2 years
00:08 acerspyro Ever since I pulled earlier today, Minetest kept leaking all the time.
00:08 acerspyro has this been taken care of later today?
00:08 VanessaE er, it shouldn't leak?
00:08 VanessaE zeno has made great strides in plugging such
00:08 acerspyro it ends up using 80% of 4 GB
00:09 acerspyro After playing for like 20 mins
00:18 jojoa1997 How would I have one entity move towards another entity?
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00:40 crazyR_ is there a reason why formspec buttons and text boxes seem to have changed size on newer minetest builds
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01:06 T4im crazyR_: size[<W>,<H>,<fixed_size>] <-- fixed_size is the old behavior, the new one seems to scale with the screensize
01:07 crazyR_ hmm nearly all the forms looks fat and ugly lol
01:21 LittleJoe I have a question: I ahve the most recent MT build and when I place mods/games in their respective folders they do not show up ingame.
01:24 EvergreenTree LittleJoe: Have you enabled them in your world?
01:24 EvergreenTree Just putting them in the mods directory won't enable them
01:24 LittleJoe they aren't recognized in the configure world window
01:25 LittleJoe I installed 1 vie the ingame mod thingy and it's the only one that shows
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01:35 acerspyro is there a mod that will vary the size of nameplates depending on distance?
01:35 LittleJoe nope
01:35 acerspyro Because in close-up, nameplates are tiny ass
01:35 LittleJoe just technic
01:36 VanessaE acerspyro: that requires a core change.
01:37 LittleJoe ?
01:37 acerspyro is it planned?
01:37 * LittleJoe is afk
01:37 VanessaE acerspyro: idk.  ask the devs :)
01:37 acerspyro VanessaE, is it planned?
01:37 acerspyro :P
01:37 VanessaE I'm not one of the core devs :P
01:37 acerspyro oh, could have specified
01:37 acerspyro :)
01:37 VanessaE but you're right, it's needed
01:38 VanessaE the names should grow as the player approaches.  and there should be a definable minimum size as well
01:38 VanessaE and they should fade away as the player gets out of range.
01:39 VanessaE there should be a key to toggle "player names all view range" or so
01:41 Arch-TK Why doesn't minetest use XDG dirs for storing game files and configuration in linux?
01:42 Arch-TK This is the problem I've found with minecraft. The home directory is _not_ the place for folders storing program files and is also _not_ designed to store configs.
01:42 VanessaE that's only for the run-in-place build
01:42 VanessaE the system-wide build puts everything in /usr (or /usr/local).
01:43 VanessaE and only your configs, worlds, etc are in $HOME/.minetest
01:43 Arch-TK Yes, which is once again, not the right place for program data and configs.
01:44 Arch-TK Are there plans to implement XDG support or should I learn C++, implement it and do a PR?
01:45 VanessaE well dot-folders/dot-files have been the standard way of storing such things for quite some years now
01:45 Arch-TK ...
01:45 VanessaE when did XDG get its start?
01:46 VanessaE hm
01:46 Arch-TK VanessaE: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedesktop.org
01:46 VanessaE march 2000 for freedesktop.org
01:46 VanessaE so yeah
01:46 Arch-TK It's been in use for _a lot_ of linux software for quite some time.
01:46 VanessaE newcomers, as far as where-to-store-shit is concerned.
01:46 VanessaE yep I know
01:46 Arch-TK Right.
01:47 Arch-TK Do you, perchance, know how dotfiles originated?
01:47 VanessaE compare 14 years versus ~40 prior years
01:47 VanessaE actually no I don't, except I was using both since long before 2000 :P
01:47 Arch-TK that doesn't mean that storing things like that in $HOME is the correct way of doing things.
01:48 Arch-TK If "it's been used for longer" was ever an argument we would still be using sysvinit and curses
01:48 VanessaE nevertheless, it's a solution to a problem that just doesn't exist imho
01:48 Arch-TK Doesn't exist?
01:49 Arch-TK how many files do you have in your $HOME?
01:49 VanessaE too many.
01:49 Arch-TK exactly
01:49 VanessaE but just about as many now as I had 15 years ago.
01:49 Arch-TK That's not an argument.
01:50 VanessaE the argument is that XDG isn't helping anything
01:50 * Arch-TK facepalms
01:50 VanessaE hell, all it does is move files/folders from one location to another.
01:50 VanessaE from $HOME to $HOME/.config
01:50 VanessaE what's the point?
01:50 Arch-TK because it doesn't clutter your home directory and groups things correctly.
01:51 Arch-TK .config for config files .local/share for data
01:51 Arch-TK and $HOME for things the user might want there
01:51 Arch-TK like Downloads, Documents, Media.
01:51 VanessaE don't get me wrong, I understand your argument
01:51 Arch-TK Not 100012321 dotfiles
01:51 VanessaE but for minetest it just doesn't really apply - you'd actually be splitting it up by doing that
01:51 VanessaE where do mods go?  data or configs?
01:51 VanessaE (they're code)
01:51 Arch-TK mods go in data...
01:52 Arch-TK they're obviously not configs
01:52 VanessaE and minetest's "configs" would consist of exactly one file
01:52 VanessaE which is why it wouldn't help anything
01:52 Arch-TK if it's data specific to the user which gets generated by the program or used by the program after compilation it should be in .local/share
01:52 Arch-TK VanessaE: .config/minetest/
01:53 VanessaE ~/.config/minetest/minetest.conf
01:53 VanessaE and that's it.
01:53 VanessaE that's all that would exist under normal conditions.
01:53 VanessaE while everything else would get piled under ~/.local/share/minetest
01:53 Arch-TK Yes... And?
01:54 VanessaE and....you'
01:54 Arch-TK That's how most of the applications on my system seem to do things.
01:55 VanessaE and....you're proposing splitting one file off from the rest in order to, as you put it, keep it all in one place, rather than...erm... keeping it all together in one place?
01:55 Arch-TK ...
01:55 Arch-TK I said "keep the configs in one place and data files in another place" or something to that effect
01:55 Arch-TK not keep data files, configs, user files, some weird temp files, some crap some program created and some directory thumbnail listing in one directory.
01:56 VanessaE well I misread that part, but you get my point.
01:56 VanessaE splitting one file off from the rest is pointless here
01:56 VanessaE the way minetest is structured it would not have any benefit at this point.
01:57 Arch-TK no, it's not pointless, it would get minetest out of $HOME
01:57 Arch-TK that's the main part
01:57 kaeza XDG support would be welcome as an optional feature for those who want it
01:59 Arch-TK heck, it seems even some Steam games which for some odd reason create configs use XDG_CONFIG_HOME, and that's surprising considering most game developers who port to linux don't seem to understand it as well as they should.
01:59 kaeza also, ~/.cache/minetest/ (for files downloaded from servers)
02:00 kaeza BTW, where would `debug.txt` fit in there?
02:00 Arch-TK what is it?
02:00 kaeza debugging output
02:00 Arch-TK a log?
02:00 Arch-TK cache
02:00 Arch-TK or /var/log
02:01 Arch-TK http://standards.freedesktop.org/ba​sedir-spec/basedir-spec-latest.html
02:01 VanessaE he'll be back :P
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02:03 Arch-TK To be honest. dotfiles should only really ever be used to give specific information about something specific to the directory they're in.
02:04 Arch-TK Take .gitignore as an example, you don't want it to show up when globbing and don't want it to show up with a normal ls but you can't put it somewhere else, it's specific to the directory tree it is in and only specific upwards, gitignores up the tree do not affect anything down the tree.
02:06 Arch-TK similarly, certain file managers (not that I use a file manager) will create dotfiles describing the current directory visually, like the windows thumbs.db and the macintosh file which I forgot the name of.
02:07 Arch-TK In any case, dotfiles were a result of lazy programming of early ls. if (filename]0
02:07 Arch-TK oops, cr
02:08 Arch-TK if (filename[0] != '.') printf("%s\n", filename);
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02:08 Arch-TK Or something to that effect.
02:09 Arch-TK It was intended to remove the implicit . and .. folders from ls or du or something.
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02:30 Sokomine uff. finally caught up with the forum :-)
02:31 Sokomine (at least for now)
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03:20 Wayward_One anyone know what could be causing this? "Got packet command: 68 for peer id 9 but client isn't active yet. Dropping packet"
03:21 VanessaE probably an olllllllld client that doesn't respect the minetest protocol
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05:14 MinetestBot [git] ShadowNinja -> Uberi/MineTest-WorldEdit: Fix Lua function https:/ http://git.io/jzqLaQ (2014-12-30T00:11:49-05:00)
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05:53 MinetestBot [git] kwolekr -> minetest/minetest: Decoration: Fix default parameter values b589353 http://git.io/h1Ln9g (2014-12-30T00:52:40-05:00)
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06:49 MinetestBot [git] kwolekr -> minetest/minetest: Replace instances of height_min/height_max with y_min/y_max to remove ambiguity 9b0d77a http://git.io/wc7x2w (2014-12-30T01:48:20-05:00)
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08:17 redstonecraftpl Hello
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08:32 redstonecraftpl hi krock
08:32 Krock hi
08:33 redstonecraftpl are Jordach here?
08:37 redstonecraftpl ~seen Jordach
08:37 ShadowBot redstonecraftpl: I saw Jordach in #minetest 11 hours, 29 minutes, and 37 seconds ago saying "https://forum.minetest.net/vi​ewtopic.php?p=166342#p166342"
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09:38 redstonecraftpl hi someguy
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09:38 someguy_irc Hello
09:38 someguy_irc yo CWz
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11:37 Megaf Hi all
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12:07 jojoa1997 hi Megaf
12:07 Megaf Hi jojoa1997
12:08 jojoa1997 https://forum.minetest.net/download/​file.php?mode=view&amp;id=1754&amp;s​id=9a0ecfa2855202afcbc22c98a403e876
12:11 Megaf What was that? It doesnt exists anymore
12:11 Krock ^
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12:50 jojoa1997 Does anyone know of a mod where one entity moves towards another entity?
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13:02 MinetestBot [git] AMDmi3 -> minetest/minetest: Fix endian.h include for FreeBSD 2414580 http://git.io/-BBPkQ (2014-12-30T23:00:01+10:00)
13:02 MinetestBot [git] Zeno- -> minetest/minetest: Cleanup updateCameraDirection and fix random input not working 53bc56d http://git.io/0LL4-w (2014-12-30T22:59:55+10:00)
13:05 jojoa1997 Where are mods kept in OSX systems. I am preparing something for a friend and I have no idea how Mac is set up. I have just downloaded the Mac build so far
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13:33 exio4 Zeno`, I had the idea of a configurable light table a bit ago, I was too lazy to implement, so thanks for it! ;P
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13:42 kilbith does a german player use Unified Inventory here ?
13:44 kilbith i'd like to know if the german translation is effective in that mod
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13:50 Megaf jojoa1997: either at ~/Application Support/minetest/(create mods folder here) or /Applications/minetest.app/(somewhere)
13:50 redstonecraftpl do minetest server will work on 32mb ram(32 just only for server, system loaded in other ram)
13:51 Megaf redstonecraftpl: Nope
13:51 Megaf redstonecraftpl: you need 256 MB
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13:51 redstonecraftpl at least?
13:51 Megaf At least 128 MB
13:51 nies do minetest servers use less ram than MC?
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13:51 redstonecraftpl but 100% vanilla
13:52 Megaf redstonecraftpl: nies: minetestserver used to use very little ram, but now a days theres something wrong and its using lots of ram
13:52 jojoa1997 Megaf the zip file shows this path. "Downloads\minetest-0.4.11.zip\min​etest.app\Contents\Resources\bin" so i would put it in "\bin\mods"?
13:52 nies ooh
13:52 jojoa1997 lol yeah used to
13:52 redstonecraftpl megaf, what about old(0.4.0) server? or 0.3.0?
13:52 Megaf redstonecraftpl: not worth
13:52 Megaf hold on, I will try something here
13:53 jojoa1997 redstonecraftpl when i joined it was fine ram usage ~0.4.5
13:53 redstonecraftpl so could it run on 32mb?
13:53 redstonecraftpl on client or server
13:53 jojoa1997 but it would be better to run the latest stable. so much better
13:53 redstonecraftpl i want to run a server on openshells
13:54 Megaf kilbith: Im joining my server right now
13:54 Megaf come back please :)
13:54 Megaf I have just updated homedecor, pipeworks, mesecons, plantlife and something else
13:55 kilbith yes darling
13:55 Megaf lol
13:56 jojoa1997 JohnMegafONeil look I am blind! https://forum.minetest.net/v​iewtopic.php?f=3&amp;t=9190 it tells me the right info
13:57 JohnMegafONeil yep, Application support then
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14:13 JohnMegafONeil kilbith: I have to fix/create these textures. https://gist.github.com/Megaf/d752e245ad4439d6f54e
14:13 JohnMegafONeil I will do that now
14:14 Zeno` JohnMegafONeil, there was a change
14:14 kilbith it's an old missing
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14:15 Zeno` JohnMegafONeil, https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commi​t/7b93408884336345dbe8779aaabcf46a51a3d257
14:16 Zeno` so with the client, edit minetest.conf and add liquid_queue_purge_time = 60 (or whatever)
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14:16 kilbith Luke <3
14:19 Jordach JohnMegafONeil, http://niceme.me
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14:23 Krock Jordach, that site's contents are 90% javascript and 10% visible text..
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15:23 Wayward_One anyone seen RBA recently?
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15:30 kilbith !seen RealBadAngel
15:30 MinetestBot kilbith: realbadangel was last seen at 2014-12-21 19:58:47 UTC on #minetest
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16:11 Jordach sfan5, new build pls
16:11 Jordach or Krock
16:11 sfan5 Jordach: maybe
16:11 Krock Jordach, why?
16:11 Jordach there's new stuff in the Biome API
16:11 Krock my last build if from yesterday
16:12 Krock s/if/is/
16:12 Jordach Krock, it's not the latest :(
16:12 Krock mhm
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16:14 Krock compilinh
16:15 Jordach 64bit would be nice
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16:21 Krock Jordach, in the dropbox directory
16:23 kaeza greetings
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16:31 Jordach Krock, just an exe? u mad bro?
16:32 Krock Jordach, want the full archive? I think there weren't any important documentatio changes to the previous build
16:32 Krock *documentaton
16:32 Jordach full ass build with the magics and libs
16:32 Jordach i have a 64bit sfan5 build active right now
16:32 Krock aha
16:33 Krock upload done in 30s
16:33 Krock or more
16:33 Jordach you have a better upload than me
16:34 Krock no, just a smaller archive :3
16:34 Jordach if i had a VPS i probably could sort out a windows auto-updater
16:40 LittleJoe anybody know how I can erase everything minetest in an Ubuntu system wide install?
16:41 LittleJoe I hit the launcher and it seams to "rebuild" the .minetest folder in Home
16:41 kaeza LittleJoe, if you installed from the package manager, remove it from there or run `sudo apt-get autoremove minetest` from a terminal
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16:41 LittleJoe ok I'll try
16:41 kaeza (then just remove ~/.minetest)
16:42 LittleJoe well it did something : D
16:42 LittleJoe thanks ; )
16:43 kaeza sure :)
16:45 MinetestBot [git] Zeno- -> minetest/minetest: Add display_gamma option for client 3d29be2 http://git.io/gDiwFw (2014-12-31T02:44:31+10:00)
16:46 Jordach FINALLY
16:46 Jordach i no longer have to turn it up via nVidia Control Panel
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17:14 mpa1212 Are there seperate git repos for each of the mods included in minetest_game? I'd like to include the git versions in my modpack, and the only way I can think of doing that would be to symlink minetest_game/mods/* to my modpack.
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17:26 marktraceur Anyone have any thoughts as to why the force-load mod wouldn't be working after some amount of time?
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17:32 Jordach https://cdn.mediacru.sh/c/cVnQt-2MmUjA.png must grovelling about gravel right now
17:37 nore mpa1212, no, only the global repo
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17:39 rubenwardy Hi all!
17:39 rubenwardy Was this too harsh? https://forum.minetest.net/vi​ewtopic.php?p=166438#p166438
17:40 Krock yeah,maybe
17:40 rubenwardy hmmm
17:40 rubenwardy I'll scale it down a bit
17:40 Krock some positive things couldbe useful in that post
17:41 Krock I don't know what I should say about this - it's not really required
17:42 rubenwardy I scaled it down a bit
17:43 Krock btw, you'll get spam emails soon if you don't edit the address in one of your recent posts :3
17:44 rubenwardy Done
17:44 rubenwardy GMail's filtering is quite good, anyway
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17:47 kaeza marktraceur, "not working" as in...?
17:47 marktraceur kaeza: Placing the forceload node doesn't forceload.
17:47 kaeza where's that mod?
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17:57 rubenwardy Back
17:57 rubenwardy Lol, that's either mine or technic's
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18:26 rubenwardy !dev intro
18:26 MinetestBot No such page.
18:27 rubenwardy !dev Intro
18:27 MinetestBot "Minetest has a scripting API (Application Programming Interface), which is used to program mods (short for "modifications") for the game, extending its features and adding new items." - http://dev.minetest.net/Intro
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18:51 rubenwardy Is this good advice? http://rubenwardy.github.io/minetest_d​oc/chapters/lua.html#local-and-global
18:51 rubenwardy (please not, WIP)
18:51 rubenwardy note
18:53 VanessaE rubenwardy: looks good
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18:54 rubenwardy excellend
18:54 rubenwardy *t
18:54 exio4 variables should be local by default
18:54 exio4 and immutable by default, too
18:55 rubenwardy Lua sucks
18:56 LittleJoe TAKE THAT BACK
18:56 rubenwardy function()    foo = "sdsd"  end      <--- foo is assigned to global
18:56 LittleJoe but it is worse than java : )
18:56 rubenwardy Well, Lua has a purpose
18:56 Calinou exio4> and immutable by default, too
18:56 Calinou that confuses everybody
18:56 Calinou Java too has a purpose…
18:56 exio4 why?
18:56 Calinou being medium-level
18:56 rubenwardy I joke
18:56 exio4 Calinou, why?
18:57 exio4 Java has a purpose, being a retarded language, it is just like COBOL
18:57 exio4 but object oriented, which is also retarded in most of its actual usage
18:58 rubenwardy Ruby wins
18:58 rubenwardy Accept speed and control. And libraries
18:58 rubenwardy Except
18:58 * rubenwardy should think and spell before he types
18:58 exio4 it is a very dynamic language though, and also is based around OOP
18:59 rubenwardy OOP is good if used correctly
18:59 rubenwardy Which is never
18:59 exio4 "if used correctly"
18:59 exio4 OOP is like a nuke
18:59 exio4 you can't get anything good out of it as a whole, but if you take some small parts of it, it is very good actually!
18:59 exio4 but then you are not writing the modern OOP
19:00 exio4 but smalltalk
19:00 ThatGraemeGuy o_O
19:00 ThatGraemeGuy oh i thought this was #programming-language-debate for a second
19:01 exio4 it is #programming-paradigms-debate
19:02 rubenwardy Polymorphism should be used only when necessary, along with inheritence.
19:02 exio4 polymorphism is amazing
19:02 rubenwardy Polymorphism is good for state machines
19:02 exio4 parametric polymorphism, and subtyping polymorphism are pretty cool
19:03 exio4 rubenwardy, the thing isn't have "abstractions", but having the "right abstractions"
19:03 rubenwardy Exactly. Java has too many abstractions
19:03 exio4 Haskell is more abstract
19:03 exio4 you even have a more powerful typesystem
19:04 rubenwardy Haskell hurts
19:04 exio4 (which isn't that hard, after checking java's type system, anyone would think static type checkers are annoying)
19:05 Wuzzy joined #minetest
19:06 exio4 rubenwardy, how does it "hurts"?
19:07 rubenwardy It is just so different to other languages. I can't understand the tutorial. I don't understand how you can't have variables.
19:07 rubenwardy What is it? Imperative?
19:07 exio4 it isn't that hard, you just need to unlearn whatever you already know
19:07 exio4 it is a functional language, but a pure one
19:08 exio4 rubenwardy, I don't understand how people actually live with mutable state, either
19:09 exio4 it is so painful to reason about the program, and imperative constructs, arr, I just can't get them, they aren't so modular as my shiny maps, filters, and other high order functions!
19:09 exio4 and what? you said you don't have functors?
19:09 exio4 oh, and you said you have null in your language? what is this null we are talking about?
19:12 rubenwardy Prolog is in a league of its own. I don't think anyone knows how to use it.
19:12 exio4 logic languages are pretty cool
19:12 exio4 I still haven't learnt any of them, though, just touched a little bit and wrote some small toy programs :(
19:13 exio4 rubenwardy, do you know scheme/racket?
19:13 rubenwardy No :(
19:13 exio4 well, THAT is a cool dynamic language
19:14 rubenwardy Programming languages all suck. Either they are too low level, or they are too slow
19:14 exio4 it has amazing macros (lisp-family ... :P), it is also functionalish, and well, lots of cool stuff!
19:14 exio4 Haskell is pretty fast, actually
19:14 exio4 and is one of the "highest-level" I know
19:14 exio4 (well, not Haskell, but GHC)
19:14 rubenwardy Can you use it for actual things, like games
19:14 rubenwardy ?
19:14 exio4 you can!
19:14 rubenwardy Awesome
19:15 exio4 there aren't a lot of engines, or lots of research there, but functional reactive programming is pretty cool
19:15 exio4 there is a lot of work, but nothing compared to other things
19:20 * Brains shrugs, "If Spock could do it with stone knives and bear skins, we can use our flawed tools too."
19:21 exio4 wut Brains?
19:22 rubenwardy I just want to make a nice 2D game. C++ and SDL hurts. HTML5 is nice, but slow. Java is java. Ruby has no game libraries, and is hard to distribute. cocos2dx is okay, but is with sprites.
19:22 Krock flash?
19:22 rubenwardy Propietary. It costs a shit load
19:22 Brains exio4: One of the episodes in Star Trek (TOS), the gang ends up back in time...  One of Spock's retorts was that he was building high tech circuits with the equivalent of "stone knives and bear skins".
19:23 exio4 Brains, no, I mean, which flawed tools do you mean?
19:23 rubenwardy ^ nerd
19:23 Krock no no. don't tell the end. Haven't seen it yet
19:23 Brains exio4: All of them.
19:23 rubenwardy I joke, I think I've seen that
19:23 Brains rubenwardy: You didn't mention python yet...  Everybody has to mention pythong...
19:23 Brains -g
19:23 rubenwardy pygame :(
19:23 rubenwardy It is almost SDL
19:24 exio4 I have used SDL with Haskell for a toy program
19:24 exio4 I found it to be actually really easy to use
19:24 Jordach rubenwardy, Lóve 2D!
19:24 rubenwardy Is that the Lua one?
19:25 * Brains goes back to working on getting his house server back running so that he can get minetest running again (under docker this time hopefully).
19:25 exio4 Brains, Python isn't worth anyone's time
19:26 Jordach rubenwardy, ya
19:27 Brains exio4: The existing codebase and developer community disagrees with you.  (That isn't pro-python but it is anti-hipster.  =:P)
19:27 ImQ009 joined #minetest
19:27 exio4 Brains, Java has a lot of code written on it, and also a big community of fresh programmers that love it
19:28 exio4 so does Javascript
19:28 Brains I dislike java a good bit, but I wouldn't claim it was useless.
19:28 rubenwardy It is ironic how Ruby is more pythonic than Python.
19:28 exio4 how wasn't it useless, actually?
19:28 rubenwardy The whole DRY, self documenting code.
19:29 rubenwardy (when it is used write of coursE)
19:29 exio4 it is used write? wut?
19:29 rubenwardy <rubenwardy> /me should think and spell before he types
19:29 rubenwardy right
19:29 Krock rubenwardy, do you want moving 2D objects or a browsergame? just wonder
19:30 exio4 Brains, just for saying, the scoping of python is broken
19:31 exio4 even if such an important and core feature of a language is broken, ok, we can workaround around it
19:31 rubenwardy https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E4nAa8ldoYE
19:31 rubenwardy The code for that is very messy, I can't get networking working
19:32 Calinou rubenwardy, Godot?
19:32 Calinou http://godotengine.org/
19:32 rubenwardy pygame
19:32 Krock interesting game
19:33 rubenwardy That looks awesome
19:34 exio4 guido's perfect language would probably be pretty cool, it would be a dynamic version of C++ with garbage collection
19:35 rubenwardy https://github.com/rubenwardy/mi​netest_doc/releases/tag/20141230
19:35 rubenwardy http://rubenwardy.github.io/m​inetest_doc/chapters/lua.html
19:35 exio4 if anyone wanted a language without lambdas, I would call him insane
19:35 Calinou Java 8 has lambdas, IIRC
19:36 exio4 it doesn't
19:37 exio4 it is syntatic sugar for anonymous classes
19:37 mr_niko joined #minetest
19:37 mr_niko hi
19:37 exio4 hi mr_niko
19:38 mr_niko hi... i'm Italian and i would like to help with translation...
19:38 exio4 io non parlo italiano, mio amico :(
19:38 exio4 but maybe someone else does
19:39 exio4 ok
19:46 rubenwardy Notice the product endorsement: http://rubenwardy.github.io/minetest_do​c/chapters/node_drawtypes.html#nodebox
19:46 rubenwardy XD
19:46 shadowzone joined #minetest
19:46 VanessaE rubenwardy: add a slight sine wave to the liquid drawtype
19:47 VanessaE maybe a subtle wobble animation
19:47 Calinou try deforming it using GIMP
19:47 Calinou may work
19:47 VanessaE yeah
19:47 rubenwardy I'll look terrible. I suck at GIMP
19:47 VanessaE there's a wave filter that'll probably do the trick
19:47 rubenwardy *It'll
19:48 Jordach you've forgotton about the one person in here who could do that
19:49 VanessaE rubenwardy: if you want to use any of the meshes from my mods to demonstrate that drawtype, you're welcome to
19:50 rubenwardy Thanks. XD
19:51 VanessaE also under nodeboxes, I suggest other, more complex models be shown there besides stairs
19:51 VanessaE such as, say, the "3dforniture" utility tables in homedecor
19:52 rubenwardy Yeah. That is a good idea.
19:52 VanessaE s/besides/in addition to/
19:53 VanessaE this document is a great start
19:53 VanessaE minetest has needed something like this for a while now
19:55 exio4 https://github.com/freeminer/freeminer/comm​it/e6446da17f49f846c5af42314ccf79ef92606a9a
19:55 exio4 I am scared
19:56 exio4 break; // may cause dark areas
19:56 exio4 basically try to lock, if it fails, then the, well, who knows
19:57 * Jordach re-arranges his stupid commits people made list
19:57 Jordach proller now takes 1st
19:57 proller 8)
19:58 Arch-TK I'm sure github has functionality for this already.
19:58 Arch-TK Also you can awk the git log or something.
19:58 proller fm too badm why you looking to it ?
20:00 exio4 I want to have some twisted nightmares
20:00 Arch-TK Jordach: ^^^ (what I said)
20:01 proller Jordach, this - best https://github.com/freeminer/freeminer/comm​it/7f7bafcafebd4ddc7c767ff8d5cf5f070ef338bb
20:01 proller oops, this - https://github.com/freeminer/freeminer/comm​it/14f4842fdb655787d0e87bd302b42b20ab5d57e4
20:02 alee joined #minetest
20:02 Jordach hah
20:02 rubenwardy What did hmmmm do?
20:02 Jordach also i really should try out schematic drawing https://cdn.mediacru.sh/X/XtjtU6j1wnrq.png
20:02 rubenwardy Complain about memory leaks?
20:03 proller no, he can not write c++ code without segfaults
20:04 Arch-TK has anyone ever ran valgrind with leak check on the code?
20:06 hmmmm proller, you couldn't figure out what the problem was so you created a memory leak
20:06 hmmmm you are so smart.
20:06 proller you cant fix your segfault about week, you are so smart too.
20:06 Arch-TK how old are you two?
20:06 rubenwardy I sense some bad history here.
20:07 rubenwardy Did hmmmm insult you mother, proller?
20:07 proller also leak after leaving game - not very important
20:07 rubenwardy Did proller insult your pets, hmmmm?
20:07 rubenwardy :D
20:07 proller and leak much better than segfault
20:08 proller so sorry hmmmm, but i smarter than you.
20:08 hmmmm yup, seems like it
20:08 Arch-TK ...
20:08 hmmmm he couldn't figure out the actual cause of the segfault
20:08 exio4 if minetest written in lisp, we wouldn't have this kind of problems
20:08 hmmmm so he made a memory leak instead
20:08 proller you can continue shitting about me in -dev
20:09 rubenwardy (((yeah))(but)(((no))()))
20:09 exio4 if that was lisp, I would kill myself
20:09 proller it was acceptable temporary solution.
20:09 rubenwardy Isn't it?
20:09 exio4 (no (but) (yeah rubenwardy))
20:09 rubenwardy (list 1 2 (list 3 4))
20:09 exio4 something like this looks reasonable
20:10 exio4 "list"
20:10 proller hmmmm, you couldn't figure out the actual cause of the segfault of YOUR code
20:10 exio4 '(1 2 3 4)
20:10 hmmmm but i did
20:10 proller it was fixed by another person
20:10 proller in next week
20:10 hmmmm proller, but you're so smart
20:10 hmmmm how come you couldn't figure it out
20:10 hmmmm tell us all
20:10 proller its not my problem.
20:10 Arch-TK guys
20:11 Jordach shit
20:11 Arch-TK this isn't #ubuntu or #daycare
20:11 Jordach i'm with proller on this
20:11 Jordach (that's a first)
20:11 Arch-TK take your childish insults elsewhere
20:11 proller hmmmm, why i shall dig your shitcode ?
20:11 nore joined #minetest
20:11 hmmmm your sentence doesn't even make sense
20:12 rubenwardy Don't make me go over there and split you up.
20:13 VanessaE Jordach: now now...take your hand away from that big red button...
20:13 Jordach In tonights round of Neckbeard V Neckbeard. We have proller in the red corner, and seasoned software developer hmmmm in the blue corner.
20:14 hmmmm I don't have a beard
20:14 hmmmm in fact I shaved yesterday
20:14 exio4 you should hmmmm
20:14 exio4 because developers have to have beards
20:14 exio4 it is like the de-facto standard, just like C++ and Java
20:14 proller no, shitcoders allowed to shave.
20:14 Arch-TK Yeah.... de-facto standard... no
20:15 rubenwardy Bye all!
20:15 phantombeta joined #minetest
20:15 exio4 well, I have a beard only because I am too lazy to shave, does it still count? :D
20:16 Jordach ^
20:16 Krock double
20:16 Krock ^
20:16 rubenwardy I hate beards
20:16 rubenwardy So unattractive.
20:16 exio4 why that, though
20:17 exio4 well, I don't really like women with beards, either.
20:17 kaeza rubenwardy, thank you :(
20:17 Krock lol.
20:17 rubenwardy No offense
20:17 Jordach kaeza, you mean that's the standard in Uruguay?!?
20:18 proller btw i know some very funny memory leaks in current minetest ;)
20:18 rubenwardy Go on
20:18 rubenwardy There are probably many
20:19 proller missed delete - not funny
20:19 Jordach rubenwardy, <3 your take on the versioning scheme: Pointless.Major.Minor
20:19 rubenwardy XD
20:19 Jordach i prefer to call that first digit ETA:HL3
20:19 Krock that scheme isn't pointless. it has 2 dots.
20:20 rubenwardy On that note:
20:21 kaeza Jordach, HL2-Ep2-Part2 *
20:21 kaeza <_<
20:21 Jordach kaeza, hah
20:21 Jordach if HL3 releases BFD will automatically hit 1.0
20:21 Arch-TK hey, look, I found your memory leaks: http://sprunge.us/fUBN
20:22 Arch-TK Seriously, has anyone ever ran minetest through valgrind?
20:22 exio4 yes
20:22 exio4 that is how people fixed a lot of mem leaks
20:22 exio4 but managing memory is hard
20:22 Jordach but does valgrind have memory leaks :D
20:22 Krock I don't get it. There aren't any (big) memory leaks on windoze
20:23 Arch-TK I don't know, let's check `$ valgrind --leak-check=yes valgrind --leak-check=yes minetest`
20:23 exio4 the memory leaks are inside a big #ifndef __WINDOZE #endif
20:23 Krock oh neat.
20:24 crazyR joined #minetest
20:27 Arch-TK exio4: I'm sure i've heard someone wrote a window manager in lisp, but is there an opengl for lisp?
20:27 Arch-TK as in, bindings or some such interface
20:27 exio4 what do you consider "lisp"?
20:28 exio4 because what most people call "lisp", is either CL (which is ugly), or some language where its syntax is "lispy"
20:30 Arch-TK Hmm.
20:31 exio4 this would be like asking "is there an opengl binding for a language with a c-like syntax?"
20:31 exio4 hmmmm, do you have any drafts of your programming language?
20:31 hmmmm not really
20:31 hmmmm it's mostly in my head
20:32 NekoGloop joined #minetest
20:32 acerspyro joined #minetest
20:32 exio4 you should have some, it'd be pretty cool to read them and try to implement a "toy compiler" for, at least, some subset of it
20:32 hmmmm it doesn't matter - i wasn't too serious about it and it sounds unnecessary if the guy celeron is talking about is doing the same thing I'm looking for
20:32 acerspyro All the worlds my computer generates are fucked up :P
20:32 hmmmm there are great things in store for the future of programming languages
20:33 exio4 hmmmm, it still a cool thing, toy programming languages are a beautiful thing to write!
20:33 acerspyro chunks that does not respect the next chunk, causing a terrain difference, weird corruption glitches, crashes...
20:33 exio4 until they aren't toy- anymore
20:33 hmmmm haha
20:33 exio4 I have to ''finish'' yixem anyway :(
20:33 hmmmm you can tell if a language is going to be good if it was written for yourself or written for others to use
20:34 exio4 https://raw.githubusercontent.co​m/EXio4/yixem/master/example.yxm -- some compilable code
20:34 Arch-TK exio4: I guess anything like lisp counts too.
20:34 Arch-TK exio4: meta-circular evaluators in general
20:34 exio4 Arch-TK, racket has bindings
20:34 Arch-TK ah, racket.
20:34 exio4 which is scheme
20:35 Arch-TK hmm
20:35 Arch-TK which is indeed a meta-circular evaluator
20:35 exio4 so your definition of lisp is pretty broad
20:35 Arch-TK Yes, I read lisp and was actually thinking scheme
20:35 Arch-TK well
20:35 Arch-TK and perl
20:36 exio4 hmmmm, what do you mean?
20:36 Arch-TK but perl is separate
20:36 Arch-TK the window manager was written in perl
20:36 exio4 you are a weird guy Arch-TK
20:36 hmmmm well C was written to be used by its own author
20:36 exio4 Arch-TK, I like you!
20:36 hmmmm C is a great language
20:36 hmmmm C++ was written expressly for other people to use it
20:36 exio4 hmmmm, Haskell was designed for being a research language and is actually great
20:37 hmmmm I don't like functional languages
20:37 turtleman_ joined #minetest
20:37 Arch-TK exio4: I attended an #archlinux-classroom "lesson" on racket.
20:37 exio4 I took proglang
20:37 Arch-TK It got me quite interested in the idea of a language like that.
20:37 exio4 hmmmm, what is the thing that you'd mostly dislike?
20:37 hmmmm it just doesn't seem like any of the supposed benefits of functional languages ever materialize
20:37 hmmmm it's too different and it's unintuitive
20:38 hmmmm you focus so much on making pure side-effect-less functions that it ends up becoming a distraction
20:38 exio4 you can write ugly code that relies on side-effects easily anyway
20:39 exio4 hmmmm, it doesn't, at least in my case
20:39 exio4 I actually find functional programming more intuitive
20:39 exio4 but if you want to write imperative code, you can
20:40 Miner_48er joined #minetest
20:40 Arch-TK I have definitely written a lot more C than I have written anything else over time.
20:41 exio4 I write proller-level code in Haskell anyway
20:41 exio4 "-- this is buggy now" one comment in my code
20:42 Arch-TK /* I should probably make this look less like a giant pile of garbage one week. */
20:42 exio4 those are the commit names
20:42 QwertyDragon_ joined #minetest
20:45 Arch-TK Someone has challenged me to write a self hosting bf JIT compiler
20:45 Arch-TK and I've actually started wondering what that would require... which is scary... because it's a really silly idea.
20:46 Arch-TK I think I'll just start with a bf compiler, then add the self hosting part, and finish with the JIT part when I specify a bf which can actually handle that.
20:46 Arch-TK x86 spec, here I come.
20:50 Johnsen2 joined #minetest
20:56 Arch-TK exio4: https://github.com/shinh/sedlisp
21:00 exio4 heh
21:00 exio4 pretty cool program
21:00 exio4 kahrl, what MOOCs, may I ask? :P
21:00 exio4 which*?
21:01 Tuxedo[Qyou] joined #minetest
21:01 kahrl coursera mostly as well as lectures on youtube
21:01 exio4 but which ones! :P
21:02 kahrl I completed the machine learning one on coursera
21:03 kahrl other than that it's mostly one-off stuff, I watched some on complex analysis recently
21:03 exio4 andrew ng's ML course?
21:03 kahrl yep
21:03 exio4 I took about 60% of it :/
21:04 kahrl why did you stop?
21:04 exio4 I couldn't finish it for real uni reasons
21:04 kahrl ah
21:04 exio4 exams that took a few weeks, and I already lost the track, and it was just too much after the exams
21:04 exio4 will take it in the next offerings anyway, I really liked it
21:04 kahrl it was quite convenient for me because I already knew octave so the programming tasks didn't take much time
21:05 kahrl and I knew the basics like gradient descent already
21:06 kahrl well as long as you don't need a certificate you can always finish it on your own
21:07 exio4 I didn't knew anything about approximations algorithms, most of what I played with were things like polynomial interpolation, and most "courses" I saw were a bit math-heavy (and my math isn't that good, sadly :P)
21:07 kahrl e.g. the complex analysis stuff I watched was from a course that ended a year ago
21:07 kahrl yeah math certainly helps :P
21:07 exio4 kahrl, yeah, I checked and downloaded the videos, but the thing that kept me going was the "deadline"
21:08 kahrl I missed too many deadlines for them to motivate me :P
21:09 exio4 deadlines with boring stuff are useless for motivating
21:09 exio4 but when you say "oh, well, if I finish the code in octave tomorrow, I'll have time for re-implementing it in Racket, then in Haskell, and then in C!"
21:09 exio4 it is actually kind of funny :P
21:10 exio4 but because I spent too much time on MOOCs, it didn't end well IRL \o/
21:10 Arch-TK sounds like my job
21:10 Arch-TK "If I hurry up and fix these bugs, I can spend time implementing more bugs."
21:11 exio4 kahrl, have you checked proglang?
21:11 kahrl not yet but I heard it's good
21:12 exio4 I was going to say that!
21:12 Brains Big fan of MOOCs and generally cool "technical" videos...  Maybe a wiki page of videos/classes that folks found interesting should be started...
21:12 exio4 a meta-MOOC site?
21:13 Brains Those already exist, I was thinking more of something local (social network-wise).
21:14 * Brains flaked big time on the classes he was taking recently (he'll blame the holidays...) which is upsetting since they were some ones that he'd waited a while to catch on the rebound.  The algo I/II and analysis classes (Princeton/Sedgewick) mostly.
21:16 roniz joined #minetest
21:18 Brains exio4: You talking about the UoW Programming Languages w/ Grossman?
21:18 exio4 yes
21:18 Brains If I'm remembering the right one, that was a good one.
21:19 exio4 it was really good
21:19 * Brains also liked Odersky's Functional Programming Principles in Scala.
21:19 jojoa1997 left #minetest
21:24 * NekoGloop throws a kitten at kahrl
21:27 * kahrl apparently failed to catch it
21:27 kahrl poor kitten!
21:30 Enke joined #minetest
21:31 Jordach joined #minetest
21:32 T4im ah, I'm sure it will land on its… oh no… nevermind
21:34 Viper168 joined #minetest
21:35 VanessaE T4im: it's okay, it landed in OldCoder's pile as usual
21:35 OldCoder hi
21:35 OldCoder T4im, PM me later or tomorrow about your shop in Landrush
21:36 jojoa1997 joined #minetest
21:36 Johnsen2 OldCoder How do i remove chanserv from one of my channels???
21:36 exio4 /msg chanserv set <channel> guard off
21:37 Johnsen2 Really???
21:37 Johnsen2 Ok :P thankyou.
21:37 jojoa1997 What does LPGL v2.1 say I must do. All I know is that i have to use a gpl license because the mod i am using code from is that
21:37 exio4 you can use /msg chanserv help too
21:37 Johnsen2 ok
21:38 Arch-TK jojoa1997: I would assume the information is on this: https://www.gnu.org/licenses/lgpl-2.1.html page
21:39 jojoa1997 :P
21:39 jojoa1997 that page confuses me
21:40 Johnsen2 exio4, it didnt work chanserv's still there
21:40 exio4 "Classic Rock intros; a guy with a PhD jumping up and down; and function subtyping being contravariant in the arguments: These are three things I did not expect from a course in Programming languages."
21:40 Viper168 joined #minetest
21:40 Johnsen2 Watching me with his creepy eyes robot eyes
21:40 Johnsen2 So evil
21:41 exio4 Johnsen2, I don't know then, it should be working
21:41 Johnsen2 hmm ill kick chanserv XD
21:41 Arch-TK jojoa1997: just skip the preamble
21:41 Johnsen2 Nope didnt work
21:41 crazyR_ joined #minetest
21:42 Arch-TK Johnsen2: Have you tried turning it off and on again?
21:44 crack joined #minetest
21:46 VanessaE bbl
21:47 Viper168 joined #minetest
21:49 Arch-TK jojoa1997: From what I understand the Lesser GPLs are licenses which permit the usage of libraries by proprietary software.
21:50 jojoa1997 ah
21:50 Arch-TK jojoa1997: Basically, if you are using work which is licensed under the LGPL then your work needs to also incorporate the LGPL, however, if you are using software licensed under the LGPL in a library fashion, basically calling methods and not actually incorporating any code apart from static linking.
21:51 Arch-TK Then that means that your software can use any license (I guess that's what they mean by use in proprietary applications)
21:51 Arch-TK as a general rule of thumb, if you're building on anything with GPL on it, do not change the license, add the license everywhere else, and make sure to release source with any binaries
21:52 jojoa1997 ok sell mine has to be lpgl. I never leave code i use alone >:D
21:53 Arch-TK you might possibly get away with upgrading to a full GPL and even upgrading the GPL version... hmm
21:53 Arch-TK actually I don't know about that.
21:53 Arch-TK Just keep the license the same.
21:53 Arch-TK And remember, IRC is not your lawyer.
21:54 shadowzone joined #minetest
21:56 jojoa1997 It isnt something big and there is a good chance i will keep it private so it doesnt really matter
21:57 Arch-TK Just remember, if you run it on a server, you have to give everyone access to the full source.
21:57 Arch-TK at least with GPLv3 you would, but I wouldn't assume it would be far different in LGPLv2.1
21:59 Arch-TK hmm, cool, I still remember how to lua.
22:00 noah__ joined #minetest
22:00 Arch-TK does minetest have a specification for all lua functions classes and anything else like hooks, file naming standards, folder structure standards and such?
22:03 exio4 lua_api.txt?
22:06 Arch-TK aha, I see, thanks.
22:06 fz72 joined #minetest
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22:08 J_L_ joined #minetest
22:10 crazyR What could cause all chat commands to be tempermental. EG: all commands dont always work, they do nothing when called. leave no errors. but then randomly it sometimes does work lol
22:11 crazyR trying to work out what i should be looking for. its obviously something in one of the mods
22:15 MinetestForFun joined #minetest
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