Time  Nick            Message
00:00 VanessaE        this is different from the usual....how?
00:00 VanessaE        ;)
00:03 kaeza           to be fair, it has been very stable the last couple of months :/
00:04 kaeza           except for the ocassional HexChat lockup / VBox crash / power cut / zombie apocalypse
00:05 VanessaE        haha
00:05 kaeza           my connection I mean; the modem has been quite stable :I
00:06 kaeza           I even had a BSOD for the first time in 2 years
00:08 acerspyro       Ever since I pulled earlier today, Minetest kept leaking all the time.
00:08 acerspyro       has this been taken care of later today?
00:08 VanessaE        er, it shouldn't leak?
00:08 VanessaE        zeno has made great strides in plugging such
00:08 acerspyro       it ends up using 80% of 4 GB
00:09 acerspyro       After playing for like 20 mins
00:18 jojoa1997       How would I have one entity move towards another entity?
00:40 crazyR_         is there a reason why formspec buttons and text boxes seem to have changed size on newer minetest builds
01:06 T4im            crazyR_: size[<W>,<H>,<fixed_size>] <-- fixed_size is the old behavior, the new one seems to scale with the screensize
01:07 crazyR_         hmm nearly all the forms looks fat and ugly lol
01:21 LittleJoe       I have a question: I ahve the most recent MT build and when I place mods/games in their respective folders they do not show up ingame.
01:24 EvergreenTree   LittleJoe: Have you enabled them in your world?
01:24 EvergreenTree   Just putting them in the mods directory won't enable them
01:24 LittleJoe       they aren't recognized in the configure world window
01:25 LittleJoe       I installed 1 vie the ingame mod thingy and it's the only one that shows
01:35 acerspyro       is there a mod that will vary the size of nameplates depending on distance?
01:35 LittleJoe       nope
01:35 acerspyro       Because in close-up, nameplates are tiny ass
01:35 LittleJoe       just technic
01:36 VanessaE        acerspyro: that requires a core change.
01:37 LittleJoe       ?
01:37 acerspyro       is it planned?
01:37 * LittleJoe     is afk
01:37 VanessaE        acerspyro: idk.  ask the devs :)
01:37 acerspyro       VanessaE, is it planned?
01:37 acerspyro       :P
01:37 VanessaE        I'm not one of the core devs :P
01:37 acerspyro       oh, could have specified
01:37 acerspyro       :)
01:37 VanessaE        but you're right, it's needed
01:38 VanessaE        the names should grow as the player approaches.  and there should be a definable minimum size as well
01:38 VanessaE        and they should fade away as the player gets out of range.
01:39 VanessaE        there should be a key to toggle "player names all view range" or so
01:41 Arch-TK         Why doesn't minetest use XDG dirs for storing game files and configuration in linux?
01:42 Arch-TK         This is the problem I've found with minecraft. The home directory is _not_ the place for folders storing program files and is also _not_ designed to store configs.
01:42 VanessaE        that's only for the run-in-place build
01:42 VanessaE        the system-wide build puts everything in /usr (or /usr/local).
01:43 VanessaE        and only your configs, worlds, etc are in $HOME/.minetest
01:43 Arch-TK         Yes, which is once again, not the right place for program data and configs.
01:44 Arch-TK         Are there plans to implement XDG support or should I learn C++, implement it and do a PR?
01:45 VanessaE        well dot-folders/dot-files have been the standard way of storing such things for quite some years now
01:45 Arch-TK         ...
01:45 VanessaE        when did XDG get its start?
01:46 VanessaE        hm
01:46 Arch-TK         VanessaE: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedesktop.org
01:46 VanessaE        march 2000 for freedesktop.org
01:46 VanessaE        so yeah
01:46 Arch-TK         It's been in use for _a lot_ of linux software for quite some time.
01:46 VanessaE        newcomers, as far as where-to-store-shit is concerned.
01:46 VanessaE        yep I know
01:46 Arch-TK         Right.
01:47 Arch-TK         Do you, perchance, know how dotfiles originated?
01:47 VanessaE        compare 14 years versus ~40 prior years
01:47 VanessaE        actually no I don't, except I was using both since long before 2000 :P
01:47 Arch-TK         that doesn't mean that storing things like that in $HOME is the correct way of doing things.
01:48 Arch-TK         If "it's been used for longer" was ever an argument we would still be using sysvinit and curses
01:48 VanessaE        nevertheless, it's a solution to a problem that just doesn't exist imho
01:48 Arch-TK         Doesn't exist?
01:49 Arch-TK         how many files do you have in your $HOME?
01:49 VanessaE        too many.
01:49 Arch-TK         exactly
01:49 VanessaE        but just about as many now as I had 15 years ago.
01:49 Arch-TK         That's not an argument.
01:50 VanessaE        the argument is that XDG isn't helping anything
01:50 * Arch-TK       facepalms
01:50 VanessaE        hell, all it does is move files/folders from one location to another.
01:50 VanessaE        from $HOME to $HOME/.config
01:50 VanessaE        what's the point?
01:50 Arch-TK         because it doesn't clutter your home directory and groups things correctly.
01:51 Arch-TK         .config for config files .local/share for data
01:51 Arch-TK         and $HOME for things the user might want there
01:51 Arch-TK         like Downloads, Documents, Media.
01:51 VanessaE        don't get me wrong, I understand your argument
01:51 Arch-TK         Not 100012321 dotfiles
01:51 VanessaE        but for minetest it just doesn't really apply - you'd actually be splitting it up by doing that
01:51 VanessaE        where do mods go?  data or configs?
01:51 VanessaE        (they're code)
01:51 Arch-TK         mods go in data...
01:52 Arch-TK         they're obviously not configs
01:52 VanessaE        and minetest's "configs" would consist of exactly one file
01:52 VanessaE        which is why it wouldn't help anything
01:52 Arch-TK         if it's data specific to the user which gets generated by the program or used by the program after compilation it should be in .local/share
01:52 Arch-TK         VanessaE: .config/minetest/
01:53 VanessaE        ~/.config/minetest/minetest.conf
01:53 VanessaE        and that's it.
01:53 VanessaE        that's all that would exist under normal conditions.
01:53 VanessaE        while everything else would get piled under ~/.local/share/minetest
01:53 Arch-TK         Yes... And?
01:54 VanessaE        and....you'
01:54 Arch-TK         That's how most of the applications on my system seem to do things.
01:55 VanessaE        and....you're proposing splitting one file off from the rest in order to, as you put it, keep it all in one place, rather than...erm... keeping it all together in one place?
01:55 Arch-TK         ...
01:55 Arch-TK         I said "keep the configs in one place and data files in another place" or something to that effect
01:55 Arch-TK         not keep data files, configs, user files, some weird temp files, some crap some program created and some directory thumbnail listing in one directory.
01:56 VanessaE        well I misread that part, but you get my point.
01:56 VanessaE        splitting one file off from the rest is pointless here
01:56 VanessaE        the way minetest is structured it would not have any benefit at this point.
01:57 Arch-TK         no, it's not pointless, it would get minetest out of $HOME
01:57 Arch-TK         that's the main part
01:57 kaeza           XDG support would be welcome as an optional feature for those who want it
01:59 Arch-TK         heck, it seems even some Steam games which for some odd reason create configs use XDG_CONFIG_HOME, and that's surprising considering most game developers who port to linux don't seem to understand it as well as they should.
01:59 kaeza           also, ~/.cache/minetest/ (for files downloaded from servers)
02:00 kaeza           BTW, where would `debug.txt` fit in there?
02:00 Arch-TK         what is it?
02:00 kaeza           debugging output
02:00 Arch-TK         a log?
02:00 Arch-TK         cache
02:00 Arch-TK         or /var/log
02:01 Arch-TK         http://standards.freedesktop.org/basedir-spec/basedir-spec-latest.html
02:01 VanessaE        he'll be back :P
02:03 Arch-TK         To be honest. dotfiles should only really ever be used to give specific information about something specific to the directory they're in.
02:04 Arch-TK         Take .gitignore as an example, you don't want it to show up when globbing and don't want it to show up with a normal ls but you can't put it somewhere else, it's specific to the directory tree it is in and only specific upwards, gitignores up the tree do not affect anything down the tree.
02:06 Arch-TK         similarly, certain file managers (not that I use a file manager) will create dotfiles describing the current directory visually, like the windows thumbs.db and the macintosh file which I forgot the name of.
02:07 Arch-TK         In any case, dotfiles were a result of lazy programming of early ls. if (filename]0
02:07 Arch-TK         oops, cr
02:08 Arch-TK         if (filename[0] != '.') printf("%s\n", filename);
02:08 Arch-TK         Or something to that effect.
02:09 Arch-TK         It was intended to remove the implicit . and .. folders from ls or du or something.
02:30 Sokomine        uff. finally caught up with the forum :-)
02:31 Sokomine        (at least for now)
03:20 Wayward_One     anyone know what could be causing this? "Got packet command: 68 for peer id 9 but client isn't active yet. Dropping packet"
03:21 VanessaE        probably an olllllllld client that doesn't respect the minetest protocol
05:14 MinetestBot     02[git] 04ShadowNinja -> 03Uberi/MineTest-WorldEdit: Fix Lua function 13https:/ http://git.io/jzqLaQ (152014-12-30T00:11:49-05:00)
05:53 MinetestBot     02[git] 04kwolekr -> 03minetest/minetest: Decoration: Fix default parameter values 13b589353 http://git.io/h1Ln9g (152014-12-30T00:52:40-05:00)
06:49 MinetestBot     02[git] 04kwolekr -> 03minetest/minetest: Replace instances of height_min/height_max with y_min/y_max to remove ambiguity 139b0d77a http://git.io/wc7x2w (152014-12-30T01:48:20-05:00)
08:17 redstonecraftpl Hello
08:32 redstonecraftpl hi krock
08:32 Krock           hi
08:33 redstonecraftpl are Jordach here?
08:37 redstonecraftpl ~seen Jordach
08:37 ShadowBot       redstonecraftpl: I saw Jordach in #minetest 11 hours, 29 minutes, and 37 seconds ago saying "https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?p=166342#p166342"
09:38 redstonecraftpl hi someguy
09:38 someguy_irc     Hello
09:38 someguy_irc     yo CWz
11:37 Megaf           Hi all
12:07 jojoa1997       hi Megaf
12:07 Megaf           Hi jojoa1997
12:08 jojoa1997       https://forum.minetest.net/download/file.php?mode=view&id=1754&sid=9a0ecfa2855202afcbc22c98a403e876
12:11 Megaf           What was that? It doesnt exists anymore
12:11 Krock           ^
12:50 jojoa1997       Does anyone know of a mod where one entity moves towards another entity?
13:02 MinetestBot     02[git] 04AMDmi3 -> 03minetest/minetest: Fix endian.h include for FreeBSD 132414580 http://git.io/-BBPkQ (152014-12-30T23:00:01+10:00)
13:02 MinetestBot     02[git] 04Zeno- -> 03minetest/minetest: Cleanup updateCameraDirection and fix random input not working 1353bc56d http://git.io/0LL4-w (152014-12-30T22:59:55+10:00)
13:05 jojoa1997       Where are mods kept in OSX systems. I am preparing something for a friend and I have no idea how Mac is set up. I have just downloaded the Mac build so far
13:33 exio4           Zeno`, I had the idea of a configurable light table a bit ago, I was too lazy to implement, so thanks for it! ;P
13:42 kilbith         does a german player use Unified Inventory here ?
13:44 kilbith         i'd like to know if the german translation is effective in that mod
13:50 Megaf           jojoa1997: either at ~/Application Support/minetest/(create mods folder here) or /Applications/minetest.app/(somewhere)
13:50 redstonecraftpl do minetest server will work on 32mb ram(32 just only for server, system loaded in other ram)
13:51 Megaf           redstonecraftpl: Nope
13:51 Megaf           redstonecraftpl: you need 256 MB
13:51 redstonecraftpl at least?
13:51 Megaf           At least 128 MB
13:51 nies            do minetest servers use less ram than MC?
13:51 redstonecraftpl but 100% vanilla
13:52 Megaf           redstonecraftpl: nies: minetestserver used to use very little ram, but now a days theres something wrong and its using lots of ram
13:52 jojoa1997       Megaf the zip file shows this path. "Downloads\minetest-0.4.11.zip\minetest.app\Contents\Resources\bin" so i would put it in "\bin\mods"?
13:52 nies            ooh
13:52 jojoa1997       lol yeah used to
13:52 redstonecraftpl megaf, what about old(0.4.0) server? or 0.3.0?
13:52 Megaf           redstonecraftpl: not worth
13:52 Megaf           hold on, I will try something here
13:53 jojoa1997       redstonecraftpl when i joined it was fine ram usage ~0.4.5
13:53 redstonecraftpl so could it run on 32mb?
13:53 redstonecraftpl on client or server
13:53 jojoa1997       but it would be better to run the latest stable. so much better
13:53 redstonecraftpl i want to run a server on openshells
13:54 Megaf           kilbith: Im joining my server right now
13:54 Megaf           come back please :)
13:54 Megaf           I have just updated homedecor, pipeworks, mesecons, plantlife and something else
13:55 kilbith         yes darling
13:55 Megaf           lol
13:56 jojoa1997       JohnMegafONeil look I am blind! https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=9190 it tells me the right info
13:57 JohnMegafONeil  yep, Application support then
14:13 JohnMegafONeil  kilbith: I have to fix/create these textures. https://gist.github.com/Megaf/d752e245ad4439d6f54e
14:13 JohnMegafONeil  I will do that now
14:14 Zeno`           JohnMegafONeil, there was a change
14:14 kilbith         it's an old missing
14:15 Zeno`           JohnMegafONeil, https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/7b93408884336345dbe8779aaabcf46a51a3d257
14:16 Zeno`           so with the client, edit minetest.conf and add liquid_queue_purge_time = 60 (or whatever)
14:16 kilbith         Luke <3
14:19 Jordach         JohnMegafONeil, http://niceme.me
14:23 Krock           Jordach, that site's contents are 90% javascript and 10% visible text..
15:23 Wayward_One     anyone seen RBA recently?
15:30 kilbith         !seen RealBadAngel
15:30 MinetestBot     kilbith: realbadangel was last seen at 2014-12-21 19:58:47 UTC on #minetest
16:11 Jordach         sfan5, new build pls
16:11 Jordach         or Krock
16:11 sfan5           Jordach: maybe
16:11 Krock           Jordach, why?
16:11 Jordach         there's new stuff in the Biome API
16:11 Krock           my last build if from yesterday
16:12 Krock           s/if/is/
16:12 Jordach         Krock, it's not the latest :(
16:12 Krock           mhm
16:14 Krock           compilinh
16:15 Jordach         64bit would be nice
16:21 Krock           Jordach, in the dropbox directory
16:23 kaeza           greetings
16:31 Jordach         Krock, just an exe? u mad bro?
16:32 Krock           Jordach, want the full archive? I think there weren't any important documentatio changes to the previous build
16:32 Krock           *documentaton
16:32 Jordach         full ass build with the magics and libs
16:32 Jordach         i have a 64bit sfan5 build active right now
16:32 Krock           aha
16:33 Krock           upload done in 30s
16:33 Krock           or more
16:33 Jordach         you have a better upload than me
16:34 Krock           no, just a smaller archive :3
16:34 Jordach         if i had a VPS i probably could sort out a windows auto-updater
16:40 LittleJoe       anybody know how I can erase everything minetest in an Ubuntu system wide install?
16:41 LittleJoe       I hit the launcher and it seams to "rebuild" the .minetest folder in Home
16:41 kaeza           LittleJoe, if you installed from the package manager, remove it from there or run `sudo apt-get autoremove minetest` from a terminal
16:41 LittleJoe       ok I'll try
16:41 kaeza           (then just remove ~/.minetest)
16:42 LittleJoe       well it did something : D
16:42 LittleJoe       thanks ; )
16:43 kaeza           sure :)
16:45 MinetestBot     02[git] 04Zeno- -> 03minetest/minetest: Add display_gamma option for client 133d29be2 http://git.io/gDiwFw (152014-12-31T02:44:31+10:00)
16:46 Jordach         FINALLY
16:46 Jordach         i no longer have to turn it up via nVidia Control Panel
17:14 mpa1212         Are there seperate git repos for each of the mods included in minetest_game? I'd like to include the git versions in my modpack, and the only way I can think of doing that would be to symlink minetest_game/mods/* to my modpack.
17:26 marktraceur     Anyone have any thoughts as to why the force-load mod wouldn't be working after some amount of time?
17:32 Jordach         https://cdn.mediacru.sh/c/cVnQt-2MmUjA.png must grovelling about gravel right now
17:37 nore            mpa1212, no, only the global repo
17:39 rubenwardy      Hi all!
17:39 rubenwardy      Was this too harsh? https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?p=166438#p166438
17:40 Krock           yeah,maybe
17:40 rubenwardy      hmmm
17:40 rubenwardy      I'll scale it down a bit
17:40 Krock           some positive things couldbe useful in that post
17:41 Krock           I don't know what I should say about this - it's not really required
17:42 rubenwardy      I scaled it down a bit
17:43 Krock           btw, you'll get spam emails soon if you don't edit the address in one of your recent posts :3
17:44 rubenwardy      Done
17:44 rubenwardy      GMail's filtering is quite good, anyway
17:47 kaeza           marktraceur, "not working" as in...?
17:47 marktraceur     kaeza: Placing the forceload node doesn't forceload.
17:47 kaeza           where's that mod?
17:57 rubenwardy      Back
17:57 rubenwardy      Lol, that's either mine or technic's
18:26 rubenwardy      !dev intro
18:26 MinetestBot     No such page.
18:27 rubenwardy      !dev Intro
18:27 MinetestBot     "Minetest has a scripting API (Application Programming Interface), which is used to program mods (short for "modifications") for the game, extending its features and adding new items." - http://dev.minetest.net/Intro
18:51 rubenwardy      Is this good advice? http://rubenwardy.github.io/minetest_doc/chapters/lua.html#local-and-global
18:51 rubenwardy      (please not, WIP)
18:51 rubenwardy      note
18:53 VanessaE        rubenwardy: looks good
18:54 rubenwardy      excellend
18:54 rubenwardy      *t
18:54 exio4           variables should be local by default
18:54 exio4           and immutable by default, too
18:55 rubenwardy      Lua sucks
18:56 LittleJoe       TAKE THAT BACK
18:56 rubenwardy      function()    foo = "sdsd"  end      <--- foo is assigned to global
18:56 LittleJoe       but it is worse than java : )
18:56 rubenwardy      Well, Lua has a purpose
18:56 Calinou         exio4> and immutable by default, too
18:56 Calinou         that confuses everybody
18:56 Calinou         Java too has a purpose…
18:56 exio4           why?
18:56 Calinou         being medium-level
18:56 rubenwardy      I joke
18:56 exio4           Calinou, why?
18:57 exio4           Java has a purpose, being a retarded language, it is just like COBOL
18:57 exio4           but object oriented, which is also retarded in most of its actual usage
18:58 rubenwardy      Ruby wins
18:58 rubenwardy      Accept speed and control. And libraries
18:58 rubenwardy      Except
18:58 * rubenwardy    should think and spell before he types
18:58 exio4           it is a very dynamic language though, and also is based around OOP
18:59 rubenwardy      OOP is good if used correctly
18:59 rubenwardy      Which is never
18:59 exio4           "if used correctly"
18:59 exio4           OOP is like a nuke
18:59 exio4           you can't get anything good out of it as a whole, but if you take some small parts of it, it is very good actually!
18:59 exio4           but then you are not writing the modern OOP
19:00 exio4           but smalltalk
19:00 ThatGraemeGuy   o_O
19:00 ThatGraemeGuy   oh i thought this was #programming-language-debate for a second
19:01 exio4           it is #programming-paradigms-debate
19:02 rubenwardy      Polymorphism should be used only when necessary, along with inheritence.
19:02 exio4           polymorphism is amazing
19:02 rubenwardy      Polymorphism is good for state machines
19:02 exio4           parametric polymorphism, and subtyping polymorphism are pretty cool
19:03 exio4           rubenwardy, the thing isn't have "abstractions", but having the "right abstractions"
19:03 rubenwardy      Exactly. Java has too many abstractions
19:03 exio4           Haskell is more abstract
19:03 exio4           you even have a more powerful typesystem
19:04 rubenwardy      Haskell hurts
19:04 exio4           (which isn't that hard, after checking java's type system, anyone would think static type checkers are annoying)
19:06 exio4           rubenwardy, how does it "hurts"?
19:07 rubenwardy      It is just so different to other languages. I can't understand the tutorial. I don't understand how you can't have variables.
19:07 rubenwardy      What is it? Imperative?
19:07 exio4           it isn't that hard, you just need to unlearn whatever you already know
19:07 exio4           it is a functional language, but a pure one
19:08 exio4           rubenwardy, I don't understand how people actually live with mutable state, either
19:09 exio4           it is so painful to reason about the program, and imperative constructs, arr, I just can't get them, they aren't so modular as my shiny maps, filters, and other high order functions!
19:09 exio4           and what? you said you don't have functors?
19:09 exio4           oh, and you said you have null in your language? what is this null we are talking about?
19:12 rubenwardy      Prolog is in a league of its own. I don't think anyone knows how to use it.
19:12 exio4           logic languages are pretty cool
19:12 exio4           I still haven't learnt any of them, though, just touched a little bit and wrote some small toy programs :(
19:13 exio4           rubenwardy, do you know scheme/racket?
19:13 rubenwardy      No :(
19:13 exio4           well, THAT is a cool dynamic language
19:14 rubenwardy      Programming languages all suck. Either they are too low level, or they are too slow
19:14 exio4           it has amazing macros (lisp-family ... :P), it is also functionalish, and well, lots of cool stuff!
19:14 exio4           Haskell is pretty fast, actually
19:14 exio4           and is one of the "highest-level" I know
19:14 exio4           (well, not Haskell, but GHC)
19:14 rubenwardy      Can you use it for actual things, like games
19:14 rubenwardy      ?
19:14 exio4           you can!
19:14 rubenwardy      Awesome
19:15 exio4           there aren't a lot of engines, or lots of research there, but functional reactive programming is pretty cool
19:15 exio4           there is a lot of work, but nothing compared to other things
19:20 * Brains        shrugs, "If Spock could do it with stone knives and bear skins, we can use our flawed tools too."
19:21 exio4           wut Brains?
19:22 rubenwardy      I just want to make a nice 2D game. C++ and SDL hurts. HTML5 is nice, but slow. Java is java. Ruby has no game libraries, and is hard to distribute. cocos2dx is okay, but is with sprites.
19:22 Krock           flash?
19:22 rubenwardy      Propietary. It costs a shit load
19:22 Brains          exio4: One of the episodes in Star Trek (TOS), the gang ends up back in time...  One of Spock's retorts was that he was building high tech circuits with the equivalent of "stone knives and bear skins".
19:23 exio4           Brains, no, I mean, which flawed tools do you mean?
19:23 rubenwardy      ^ nerd
19:23 Krock           no no. don't tell the end. Haven't seen it yet
19:23 Brains          exio4: All of them.
19:23 rubenwardy      I joke, I think I've seen that
19:23 Brains          rubenwardy: You didn't mention python yet...  Everybody has to mention pythong...
19:23 Brains          -g
19:23 rubenwardy      pygame :(
19:23 rubenwardy      It is almost SDL
19:24 exio4           I have used SDL with Haskell for a toy program
19:24 exio4           I found it to be actually really easy to use
19:24 Jordach         rubenwardy, Lóve 2D!
19:24 rubenwardy      Is that the Lua one?
19:25 * Brains        goes back to working on getting his house server back running so that he can get minetest running again (under docker this time hopefully).
19:25 exio4           Brains, Python isn't worth anyone's time
19:26 Jordach         rubenwardy, ya
19:27 Brains          exio4: The existing codebase and developer community disagrees with you.  (That isn't pro-python but it is anti-hipster.  =:P)
19:27 exio4           Brains, Java has a lot of code written on it, and also a big community of fresh programmers that love it
19:28 exio4           so does Javascript
19:28 Brains          I dislike java a good bit, but I wouldn't claim it was useless.
19:28 rubenwardy      It is ironic how Ruby is more pythonic than Python.
19:28 exio4           how wasn't it useless, actually?
19:28 rubenwardy      The whole DRY, self documenting code.
19:29 rubenwardy      (when it is used write of coursE)
19:29 exio4           it is used write? wut?
19:29 rubenwardy      <rubenwardy> /me should think and spell before he types
19:29 rubenwardy      right
19:29 Krock           rubenwardy, do you want moving 2D objects or a browsergame? just wonder
19:30 exio4           Brains, just for saying, the scoping of python is broken
19:31 exio4           even if such an important and core feature of a language is broken, ok, we can workaround around it
19:31 rubenwardy      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E4nAa8ldoYE
19:31 rubenwardy      The code for that is very messy, I can't get networking working
19:32 Calinou         rubenwardy, Godot?
19:32 Calinou         http://godotengine.org/
19:32 rubenwardy      pygame
19:32 Krock           interesting game
19:33 rubenwardy      That looks awesome
19:34 exio4           guido's perfect language would probably be pretty cool, it would be a dynamic version of C++ with garbage collection
19:35 rubenwardy      https://github.com/rubenwardy/minetest_doc/releases/tag/20141230
19:35 rubenwardy      http://rubenwardy.github.io/minetest_doc/chapters/lua.html
19:35 exio4           if anyone wanted a language without lambdas, I would call him insane
19:35 Calinou         Java 8 has lambdas, IIRC
19:36 exio4           it doesn't
19:37 exio4           it is syntatic sugar for anonymous classes
19:37 mr_niko         hi
19:37 exio4           hi mr_niko
19:38 mr_niko         hi... i'm Italian and i would like to help with translation...
19:38 exio4           io non parlo italiano, mio amico :(
19:38 exio4           but maybe someone else does
19:39 exio4           ok
19:46 rubenwardy      Notice the product endorsement: http://rubenwardy.github.io/minetest_doc/chapters/node_drawtypes.html#nodebox
19:46 rubenwardy      XD
19:46 VanessaE        rubenwardy: add a slight sine wave to the liquid drawtype
19:47 VanessaE        maybe a subtle wobble animation
19:47 Calinou         try deforming it using GIMP
19:47 Calinou         may work
19:47 VanessaE        yeah
19:47 rubenwardy      I'll look terrible. I suck at GIMP
19:47 VanessaE        there's a wave filter that'll probably do the trick
19:47 rubenwardy      *It'll
19:48 Jordach         you've forgotton about the one person in here who could do that
19:49 VanessaE        rubenwardy: if you want to use any of the meshes from my mods to demonstrate that drawtype, you're welcome to
19:50 rubenwardy      Thanks. XD
19:51 VanessaE        also under nodeboxes, I suggest other, more complex models be shown there besides stairs
19:51 VanessaE        such as, say, the "3dforniture" utility tables in homedecor
19:52 rubenwardy      Yeah. That is a good idea.
19:52 VanessaE        s/besides/in addition to/
19:53 VanessaE        this document is a great start
19:53 VanessaE        minetest has needed something like this for a while now
19:55 exio4           https://github.com/freeminer/freeminer/commit/e6446da17f49f846c5af42314ccf79ef92606a9a
19:55 exio4           I am scared
19:56 exio4           break; // may cause dark areas
19:56 exio4           basically try to lock, if it fails, then the, well, who knows
19:57 * Jordach       re-arranges his stupid commits people made list
19:57 Jordach         proller now takes 1st
19:57 proller         8)
19:58 Arch-TK         I'm sure github has functionality for this already.
19:58 Arch-TK         Also you can awk the git log or something.
19:58 proller         fm too badm why you looking to it ?
20:00 exio4           I want to have some twisted nightmares
20:00 Arch-TK         Jordach: ^^^ (what I said)
20:01 proller         Jordach, this - best https://github.com/freeminer/freeminer/commit/7f7bafcafebd4ddc7c767ff8d5cf5f070ef338bb
20:01 proller         oops, this - https://github.com/freeminer/freeminer/commit/14f4842fdb655787d0e87bd302b42b20ab5d57e4
20:02 Jordach         hah
20:02 rubenwardy      What did hmmmm do?
20:02 Jordach         also i really should try out schematic drawing https://cdn.mediacru.sh/X/XtjtU6j1wnrq.png
20:02 rubenwardy      Complain about memory leaks?
20:03 proller         no, he can not write c++ code without segfaults
20:04 Arch-TK         has anyone ever ran valgrind with leak check on the code?
20:06 hmmmm           proller, you couldn't figure out what the problem was so you created a memory leak
20:06 hmmmm           you are so smart.
20:06 proller         you cant fix your segfault about week, you are so smart too.
20:06 Arch-TK         how old are you two?
20:06 rubenwardy      I sense some bad history here.
20:07 rubenwardy      Did hmmmm insult you mother, proller?
20:07 proller         also leak after leaving game - not very important
20:07 rubenwardy      Did proller insult your pets, hmmmm?
20:07 rubenwardy      :D
20:07 proller         and leak much better than segfault
20:08 proller         so sorry hmmmm, but i smarter than you.
20:08 hmmmm           yup, seems like it
20:08 Arch-TK         ...
20:08 hmmmm           he couldn't figure out the actual cause of the segfault
20:08 exio4           if minetest written in lisp, we wouldn't have this kind of problems
20:08 hmmmm           so he made a memory leak instead
20:08 proller         you can continue shitting about me in -dev
20:09 rubenwardy      (((yeah))(but)(((no))()))
20:09 exio4           if that was lisp, I would kill myself
20:09 proller         it was acceptable temporary solution.
20:09 rubenwardy      Isn't it?
20:09 exio4           (no (but) (yeah rubenwardy))
20:09 rubenwardy      (list 1 2 (list 3 4))
20:09 exio4           something like this looks reasonable
20:10 exio4           "list"
20:10 proller         hmmmm, you couldn't figure out the actual cause of the segfault of YOUR code
20:10 exio4           '(1 2 3 4)
20:10 hmmmm           but i did
20:10 proller         it was fixed by another person
20:10 proller         in next week
20:10 hmmmm           proller, but you're so smart
20:10 hmmmm           how come you couldn't figure it out
20:10 hmmmm           tell us all
20:10 proller         its not my problem.
20:10 Arch-TK         guys
20:11 Jordach         shit
20:11 Arch-TK         this isn't #ubuntu or #daycare
20:11 Jordach         i'm with proller on this
20:11 Jordach         (that's a first)
20:11 Arch-TK         take your childish insults elsewhere
20:11 proller         hmmmm, why i shall dig your shitcode ?
20:11 hmmmm           your sentence doesn't even make sense
20:12 rubenwardy      Don't make me go over there and split you up.
20:13 VanessaE        Jordach: now now...take your hand away from that big red button...
20:13 Jordach         In tonights round of Neckbeard V Neckbeard. We have proller in the red corner, and seasoned software developer hmmmm in the blue corner.
20:14 hmmmm           I don't have a beard
20:14 hmmmm           in fact I shaved yesterday
20:14 exio4           you should hmmmm
20:14 exio4           because developers have to have beards
20:14 exio4           it is like the de-facto standard, just like C++ and Java
20:14 proller         no, shitcoders allowed to shave.
20:14 Arch-TK         Yeah.... de-facto standard... no
20:15 rubenwardy      Bye all!
20:15 exio4           well, I have a beard only because I am too lazy to shave, does it still count? :D
20:16 Jordach         ^
20:16 Krock           double
20:16 Krock           ^
20:16 rubenwardy      I hate beards
20:16 rubenwardy      So unattractive.
20:16 exio4           why that, though
20:17 exio4           well, I don't really like women with beards, either.
20:17 kaeza           rubenwardy, thank you :(
20:17 Krock           lol.
20:17 rubenwardy      No offense
20:17 Jordach         kaeza, you mean that's the standard in Uruguay?!?
20:18 proller         btw i know some very funny memory leaks in current minetest ;)
20:18 rubenwardy      Go on
20:18 rubenwardy      There are probably many
20:19 proller         missed delete - not funny
20:19 Jordach         rubenwardy, <3 your take on the versioning scheme: Pointless.Major.Minor
20:19 rubenwardy      XD
20:19 Jordach         i prefer to call that first digit ETA:HL3
20:19 Krock           that scheme isn't pointless. it has 2 dots.
20:20 rubenwardy      On that note:
20:21 kaeza           Jordach, HL2-Ep2-Part2 *
20:21 kaeza           <_<
20:21 Jordach         kaeza, hah
20:21 Jordach         if HL3 releases BFD will automatically hit 1.0
20:21 Arch-TK         hey, look, I found your memory leaks: http://sprunge.us/fUBN
20:22 Arch-TK         Seriously, has anyone ever ran minetest through valgrind?
20:22 exio4           yes
20:22 exio4           that is how people fixed a lot of mem leaks
20:22 exio4           but managing memory is hard
20:22 Jordach         but does valgrind have memory leaks :D
20:22 Krock           I don't get it. There aren't any (big) memory leaks on windoze
20:23 Arch-TK         I don't know, let's check `$ valgrind --leak-check=yes valgrind --leak-check=yes minetest`
20:23 exio4           the memory leaks are inside a big #ifndef __WINDOZE #endif
20:23 Krock           oh neat.
20:27 Arch-TK         exio4: I'm sure i've heard someone wrote a window manager in lisp, but is there an opengl for lisp?
20:27 Arch-TK         as in, bindings or some such interface
20:27 exio4           what do you consider "lisp"?
20:28 exio4           because what most people call "lisp", is either CL (which is ugly), or some language where its syntax is "lispy"
20:30 Arch-TK         Hmm.
20:31 exio4           this would be like asking "is there an opengl binding for a language with a c-like syntax?"
20:31 exio4           hmmmm, do you have any drafts of your programming language?
20:31 hmmmm           not really
20:31 hmmmm           it's mostly in my head
20:32 exio4           you should have some, it'd be pretty cool to read them and try to implement a "toy compiler" for, at least, some subset of it
20:32 hmmmm           it doesn't matter - i wasn't too serious about it and it sounds unnecessary if the guy celeron is talking about is doing the same thing I'm looking for
20:32 acerspyro       All the worlds my computer generates are fucked up :P
20:32 hmmmm           there are great things in store for the future of programming languages
20:33 exio4           hmmmm, it still a cool thing, toy programming languages are a beautiful thing to write!
20:33 acerspyro       chunks that does not respect the next chunk, causing a terrain difference, weird corruption glitches, crashes...
20:33 exio4           until they aren't toy- anymore
20:33 hmmmm           haha
20:33 exio4           I have to ''finish'' yixem anyway :(
20:33 hmmmm           you can tell if a language is going to be good if it was written for yourself or written for others to use
20:34 exio4           https://raw.githubusercontent.com/EXio4/yixem/master/example.yxm -- some compilable code
20:34 Arch-TK         exio4: I guess anything like lisp counts too.
20:34 Arch-TK         exio4: meta-circular evaluators in general
20:34 exio4           Arch-TK, racket has bindings
20:34 Arch-TK         ah, racket.
20:34 exio4           which is scheme
20:35 Arch-TK         hmm
20:35 Arch-TK         which is indeed a meta-circular evaluator
20:35 exio4           so your definition of lisp is pretty broad
20:35 Arch-TK         Yes, I read lisp and was actually thinking scheme
20:35 Arch-TK         well
20:35 Arch-TK         and perl
20:36 exio4           hmmmm, what do you mean?
20:36 Arch-TK         but perl is separate
20:36 Arch-TK         the window manager was written in perl
20:36 exio4           you are a weird guy Arch-TK
20:36 hmmmm           well C was written to be used by its own author
20:36 exio4           Arch-TK, I like you!
20:36 hmmmm           C is a great language
20:36 hmmmm           C++ was written expressly for other people to use it
20:36 exio4           hmmmm, Haskell was designed for being a research language and is actually great
20:37 hmmmm           I don't like functional languages
20:37 Arch-TK         exio4: I attended an #archlinux-classroom "lesson" on racket.
20:37 exio4           I took proglang
20:37 Arch-TK         It got me quite interested in the idea of a language like that.
20:37 exio4           hmmmm, what is the thing that you'd mostly dislike?
20:37 hmmmm           it just doesn't seem like any of the supposed benefits of functional languages ever materialize
20:37 hmmmm           it's too different and it's unintuitive
20:38 hmmmm           you focus so much on making pure side-effect-less functions that it ends up becoming a distraction
20:38 exio4           you can write ugly code that relies on side-effects easily anyway
20:39 exio4           hmmmm, it doesn't, at least in my case
20:39 exio4           I actually find functional programming more intuitive
20:39 exio4           but if you want to write imperative code, you can
20:40 Arch-TK         I have definitely written a lot more C than I have written anything else over time.
20:41 exio4           I write proller-level code in Haskell anyway
20:41 exio4           "-- this is buggy now" one comment in my code
20:42 Arch-TK         /* I should probably make this look less like a giant pile of garbage one week. */
20:42 exio4           those are the commit names
20:45 Arch-TK         Someone has challenged me to write a self hosting bf JIT compiler
20:45 Arch-TK         and I've actually started wondering what that would require... which is scary... because it's a really silly idea.
20:46 Arch-TK         I think I'll just start with a bf compiler, then add the self hosting part, and finish with the JIT part when I specify a bf which can actually handle that.
20:46 Arch-TK         x86 spec, here I come.
20:56 Arch-TK         exio4: https://github.com/shinh/sedlisp
21:00 exio4           heh
21:00 exio4           pretty cool program
21:00 exio4           kahrl, what MOOCs, may I ask? :P
21:00 exio4           which*?
21:01 kahrl           coursera mostly as well as lectures on youtube
21:01 exio4           but which ones! :P
21:02 kahrl           I completed the machine learning one on coursera
21:03 kahrl           other than that it's mostly one-off stuff, I watched some on complex analysis recently
21:03 exio4           andrew ng's ML course?
21:03 kahrl           yep
21:03 exio4           I took about 60% of it :/
21:04 kahrl           why did you stop?
21:04 exio4           I couldn't finish it for real uni reasons
21:04 kahrl           ah
21:04 exio4           exams that took a few weeks, and I already lost the track, and it was just too much after the exams
21:04 exio4           will take it in the next offerings anyway, I really liked it
21:04 kahrl           it was quite convenient for me because I already knew octave so the programming tasks didn't take much time
21:05 kahrl           and I knew the basics like gradient descent already
21:06 kahrl           well as long as you don't need a certificate you can always finish it on your own
21:07 exio4           I didn't knew anything about approximations algorithms, most of what I played with were things like polynomial interpolation, and most "courses" I saw were a bit math-heavy (and my math isn't that good, sadly :P)
21:07 kahrl           e.g. the complex analysis stuff I watched was from a course that ended a year ago
21:07 kahrl           yeah math certainly helps :P
21:07 exio4           kahrl, yeah, I checked and downloaded the videos, but the thing that kept me going was the "deadline"
21:08 kahrl           I missed too many deadlines for them to motivate me :P
21:09 exio4           deadlines with boring stuff are useless for motivating
21:09 exio4           but when you say "oh, well, if I finish the code in octave tomorrow, I'll have time for re-implementing it in Racket, then in Haskell, and then in C!"
21:09 exio4           it is actually kind of funny :P
21:10 exio4           but because I spent too much time on MOOCs, it didn't end well IRL \o/
21:10 Arch-TK         sounds like my job
21:10 Arch-TK         "If I hurry up and fix these bugs, I can spend time implementing more bugs."
21:11 exio4           kahrl, have you checked proglang?
21:11 kahrl           not yet but I heard it's good
21:12 exio4           I was going to say that!
21:12 Brains          Big fan of MOOCs and generally cool "technical" videos...  Maybe a wiki page of videos/classes that folks found interesting should be started...
21:12 exio4           a meta-MOOC site?
21:13 Brains          Those already exist, I was thinking more of something local (social network-wise).
21:14 * Brains        flaked big time on the classes he was taking recently (he'll blame the holidays...) which is upsetting since they were some ones that he'd waited a while to catch on the rebound.  The algo I/II and analysis classes (Princeton/Sedgewick) mostly.
21:18 Brains          exio4: You talking about the UoW Programming Languages w/ Grossman?
21:18 exio4           yes
21:18 Brains          If I'm remembering the right one, that was a good one.
21:19 exio4           it was really good
21:19 * Brains        also liked Odersky's Functional Programming Principles in Scala.
21:24 * NekoGloop     throws a kitten at kahrl
21:27 * kahrl         apparently failed to catch it
21:27 kahrl           poor kitten!
21:32 T4im            ah, I'm sure it will land on its… oh no… nevermind
21:35 VanessaE        T4im: it's okay, it landed in OldCoder's pile as usual
21:35 OldCoder        hi
21:35 OldCoder        T4im, PM me later or tomorrow about your shop in Landrush
21:36 Johnsen2        OldCoder How do i remove chanserv from one of my channels???
21:36 exio4           /msg chanserv set <channel> guard off
21:37 Johnsen2        Really???
21:37 Johnsen2        Ok :P thankyou.
21:37 jojoa1997       What does LPGL v2.1 say I must do. All I know is that i have to use a gpl license because the mod i am using code from is that
21:37 exio4           you can use /msg chanserv help too
21:37 Johnsen2        ok
21:38 Arch-TK         jojoa1997: I would assume the information is on this: https://www.gnu.org/licenses/lgpl-2.1.html page
21:39 jojoa1997       :P
21:39 jojoa1997       that page confuses me
21:40 Johnsen2        exio4, it didnt work chanserv's still there
21:40 exio4           "Classic Rock intros; a guy with a PhD jumping up and down; and function subtyping being contravariant in the arguments: These are three things I did not expect from a course in Programming languages."
21:40 Johnsen2        Watching me with his creepy eyes robot eyes
21:40 Johnsen2        So evil
21:41 exio4           Johnsen2, I don't know then, it should be working
21:41 Johnsen2        hmm ill kick chanserv XD
21:41 Arch-TK         jojoa1997: just skip the preamble
21:41 Johnsen2        Nope didnt work
21:42 Arch-TK         Johnsen2: Have you tried turning it off and on again?
21:46 VanessaE        bbl
21:49 Arch-TK         jojoa1997: From what I understand the Lesser GPLs are licenses which permit the usage of libraries by proprietary software.
21:50 jojoa1997       ah
21:50 Arch-TK         jojoa1997: Basically, if you are using work which is licensed under the LGPL then your work needs to also incorporate the LGPL, however, if you are using software licensed under the LGPL in a library fashion, basically calling methods and not actually incorporating any code apart from static linking.
21:51 Arch-TK         Then that means that your software can use any license (I guess that's what they mean by use in proprietary applications)
21:51 Arch-TK         as a general rule of thumb, if you're building on anything with GPL on it, do not change the license, add the license everywhere else, and make sure to release source with any binaries
21:52 jojoa1997       ok sell mine has to be lpgl. I never leave code i use alone >:D
21:53 Arch-TK         you might possibly get away with upgrading to a full GPL and even upgrading the GPL version... hmm
21:53 Arch-TK         actually I don't know about that.
21:53 Arch-TK         Just keep the license the same.
21:53 Arch-TK         And remember, IRC is not your lawyer.
21:56 jojoa1997       It isnt something big and there is a good chance i will keep it private so it doesnt really matter
21:57 Arch-TK         Just remember, if you run it on a server, you have to give everyone access to the full source.
21:57 Arch-TK         at least with GPLv3 you would, but I wouldn't assume it would be far different in LGPLv2.1
21:59 Arch-TK         hmm, cool, I still remember how to lua.
22:00 Arch-TK         does minetest have a specification for all lua functions classes and anything else like hooks, file naming standards, folder structure standards and such?
22:03 exio4           lua_api.txt?
22:06 Arch-TK         aha, I see, thanks.
22:10 crazyR          What could cause all chat commands to be tempermental. EG: all commands dont always work, they do nothing when called. leave no errors. but then randomly it sometimes does work lol
22:11 crazyR          trying to work out what i should be looking for. its obviously something in one of the mods