| Time |
Nick |
Message |
| 00:23 |
crazyR |
? |
| 00:35 |
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| 01:59 |
something1 |
When I install a mod under /mods, and it does show up in the mods tab, how do I get it in creative mode? |
| 01:59 |
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something1 |
Nevermind, I had to enable them for the specific world. |
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| 08:46 |
Calinou |
mobs in Carbone are now slightly less strong and rarer |
| 08:48 |
|
Topic for #minetest is now Welcome to #minetest, the official channel of Minetest | Version: 0.4.11 (2014-12-26) | Responses may take a while, so be patient. | Rules: http://wiki.minetest.net/IRC#Rules | Development: #minetest-dev | Server list: http://minetest.net/servers | IRC logs: http://irc.minetest.ru/minetest/ |
| 08:53 |
hmmmm |
hey guys |
| 08:53 |
hmmmm |
I was wondering how anybody is actually supposed to play multiplayer |
| 08:53 |
hmmmm |
it's basically unplayable |
| 08:53 |
hmmmm |
i just tried it |
| 08:54 |
hmmmm |
unless you spend literally 10+ seconds for each and every action, which may or may not fail |
| 08:55 |
Calinou |
wrong |
| 08:55 |
Calinou |
either your connection has problems, or you play on bad servers |
| 08:55 |
Calinou |
I can play lagless just fine |
| 08:55 |
Calinou |
try MinetestForFun's server… usually has ~100 ms ping here |
| 08:56 |
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| 09:16 |
Krock |
Calinou, less strong = weaker? |
| 09:18 |
Calinou |
yes |
| 09:18 |
Calinou |
they probably were too challenging to the average player |
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toasttt |
4 sieg heil |
| 10:32 |
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toasttt was kicked by Calinou: toasttt |
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Krock |
toasttt could do it better ,04this this background |
| 10:52 |
Krock |
*with this |
| 11:00 |
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| 11:52 |
Megaf |
!server Megaf |
| 11:52 |
MinetestBot |
Megaf: Megaf Server v4.0 | mt.megaf.info:30003 | Clients: 1/10, 1/2 | Version: 0.4.11-dev / MegafXploreNext | Ping: 6ms |
| 11:56 |
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| 12:58 |
redstonecraftpl |
hi someguy |
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| 14:10 |
rubenwardy |
Hi all! |
| 14:10 |
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| 14:10 |
rubenwardy |
Maybe I should make my IRC client say "Hi all!" when I join #minetest, automatically? |
| 14:11 |
exio4 |
you shouldn't |
| 14:11 |
UnknownSentinel |
Hi ruben :) |
| 14:12 |
Brains |
rubenwardy: We could always set our clients to respond with "Hi, Norm!"... |
| 14:12 |
* Brains |
figures ~150 "Hi, Norms" should be greeting enough for anybody. |
| 14:13 |
rubenwardy |
$ cd minetesy |
| 14:13 |
rubenwardy |
* $ cd minetesty |
| 14:13 |
rubenwardy |
Hmmm, oh dear. |
| 14:13 |
rubenwardy |
It's Mein Testy time |
| 14:15 |
* Brains |
spent a good amount of time last night trying to figure out why his build of minetest (server) was looking for truetype... Turns out he told it to.... |
| 14:16 |
rubenwardy |
Lol. I'm building Minetest now... it's taking ages. |
| 14:16 |
exio4 |
it takes <2 minutes over here |
| 14:17 |
rubenwardy |
It takes about 4 minutes for me, from scratch |
| 14:17 |
exio4 |
specs? :P |
| 14:19 |
rubenwardy |
I forget. I made a forum post on it once |
| 14:19 |
Brains |
Heh, that was another mistake I had earlier. Building in parallel is a lovely thing... Until you move the opts for your bigger machine to the smaller one. Core2Duo != i5-2500K. |
| 14:19 |
UnknownSentinel |
Is there a wat to change the interface to a flat design, I cringe when I look at the curved buttons. :p |
| 14:20 |
rubenwardy |
UnknownSentinel, in Minetest? |
| 14:20 |
UnknownSentinel |
yeah :p |
| 14:20 |
rubenwardy |
pentium series 2.8HZ dual core integrated graphics 4GB ram. |
| 14:21 |
exio4 |
pretty cool, then |
| 14:21 |
rubenwardy |
Flat design is superior. I'd like to work on the user interface, but I suck at c++ |
| 14:21 |
rubenwardy |
Compaq CQ5226UK |
| 14:21 |
rubenwardy |
I need to build my own |
| 14:22 |
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| 14:22 |
rubenwardy |
Well, "need" |
| 14:22 |
exio4 |
rubenwardy, it is totally worth it |
| 14:22 |
exio4 |
I've been building my own computer for the past years, no regrets :D |
| 14:22 |
exio4 |
I spend too much money on it though |
| 14:26 |
Krock |
UnknownSentinel, use OpenGL 1.2 and you'll have flat buttons |
| 14:26 |
UnknownSentinel |
thanks :) |
| 14:27 |
Krock |
np |
| 14:27 |
UnknownSentinel |
can you change it in the menu or in config file? |
| 14:28 |
Krock |
UnknownSentinel, downgrade your graphics driver :P |
| 14:28 |
UnknownSentinel |
Well, that would be ahuge workaround :p |
| 14:29 |
Krock |
exactly, but it would work |
| 14:29 |
exio4 |
you can hack your drivers |
| 14:29 |
exio4 |
and make them say they only support ogl 1.2! |
| 14:29 |
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| 14:29 |
UnknownSentinel |
last time I tried 'hacking' my drivers, I had to reinstall windows because my nvidia drivers were corrupt |
| 14:30 |
Krock |
reinstall a complete system? lol |
| 14:30 |
exio4 |
by hacking I mean inspecting the source code |
| 14:30 |
Megaf |
VanessaE: The plasma TV tiles are out of sync |
| 14:30 |
Krock |
If I would do that everytime a driver is broken, I would still be waiting for a completed installation |
| 14:31 |
UnknownSentinel |
My windows was only showing black screen and safe mode was ocrrupt |
| 14:31 |
UnknownSentinel |
*corrupt |
| 14:31 |
Krock |
congrats. |
| 14:32 |
Krock |
!next |
| 14:32 |
MinetestBot |
Another satisfied customer. Next! |
| 14:33 |
UnknownSentinel |
Hmm, how do I change the minetest language. I just want it to use english, now it uses my system language :/ |
| 14:33 |
Krock |
rename the locales directory |
| 14:34 |
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| 14:34 |
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| 14:34 |
UnknownSentinel |
Deleted the BE folder and now it's in english :) |
| 14:34 |
Krock |
BE? |
| 14:34 |
UnknownSentinel |
belgium :) |
| 14:35 |
UnknownSentinel |
the belgian locale folder |
| 14:35 |
Krock |
aha. renaming the parent directory would help too, so you don't need to unzip the original files again |
| 14:35 |
exio4 |
I don't really like translations |
| 14:35 |
Krock |
some of them are broken |
| 14:35 |
Krock |
*some parts of them |
| 14:35 |
exio4 |
I don't even know english that well, but the game feels too different |
| 14:40 |
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| 15:59 |
rubenwardy |
Hi all1 |
| 15:59 |
kaeza |
greetings |
| 16:00 |
kaeza |
hey rubenwardy |
| 16:01 |
LazyJ |
o/ |
| 16:01 |
rubenwardy |
\0 |
| 16:02 |
rubenwardy |
I'm big headed |
| 16:02 |
rubenwardy |
\o |
| 16:02 |
shadowzone |
I can be... |
| 16:04 |
Krock |
\[]/ robot |
| 16:06 |
Calinou |
\0/ = happy geek |
| 16:06 |
Calinou |
\o/ = happy person |
| 16:08 |
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| 16:29 |
Viper |
\o/ |
| 16:30 |
marktraceur |
\f/ = happy brontosaur? |
| 16:31 |
Wayward_One |
xD |
| 16:32 |
jojoa1997 |
Jordach you are evil. Every time i go to open a forum thread you made it takes forever to open |
| 16:33 |
Jordach |
because of my 07GLORIOUS01 4k? |
| 16:35 |
kaeza |
u wot |
| 16:35 |
sfan5 |
wot |
| 16:44 |
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| 16:56 |
rubenwardy |
Any recommendations on what to talk about here? http://rubenwardy.github.io/minetest_doc/chapters/lua.html |
| 16:56 |
rubenwardy |
How they should split code into files? |
| 16:56 |
rubenwardy |
:S |
| 16:57 |
Brains |
You could probably find something close in any beginning programming text where it talks about modularity/decomposition/the-like, right? |
| 16:58 |
exio4 |
functional decomposition or OO decomposition? |
| 16:58 |
exio4 |
:D |
| 16:59 |
Brains |
Since he's going to have to munge it down to something reasonable anyways, it probably won't make a difference which was the source. When you are cooking hot dogs, you don't really care whether they are from the French or Italian school. |
| 17:00 |
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| 17:00 |
rubenwardy |
I'll add stuff about gaining programming / algorithm knowledge from Scratch and Codeacademy, etc. |
| 17:01 |
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| 17:01 |
acerspyro |
Brains, you don't need to go to school to make hot dogs. |
| 17:02 |
marktraceur |
Unless your parents never taught you how to |
| 17:02 |
acerspyro |
Google will |
| 17:02 |
Calinou |
rubenwardy, init.lua for initialization and boilerplates, nodes.lua for nodes, tools.lua for tools, craftitems.lua for craftitems, mapgen.lua for map generation stuff |
| 17:02 |
acerspyro |
Pretty sure you can learn how to wipe your ass on Google. |
| 17:02 |
marktraceur |
Or you don't know what hot dogs are, and therefore cannot search for them |
| 17:02 |
Calinou |
<something>.lua whenever it makes sense |
| 17:03 |
acerspyro |
marktraceur, then you can't learn how to cook hot dogs, since you come from somewhere lost. |
| 17:04 |
Brains |
rubenwardy: I would say to not spend much time on it though. Something simple and straight forward to start with because it may be some time before the audience will be writing anything of real size... They are noobs after all. |
| 17:08 |
rubenwardy |
I wasn't going to spend much time on it |
| 17:08 |
rubenwardy |
"Teaching you how to program is beyond the scope of this book." |
| 17:08 |
rubenwardy |
:) |
| 17:08 |
Brains |
Heh, I look forward to reading it later then. |
| 17:10 |
* Brains |
is of the opinion that all people should know the basics of programming... Probably shouldn't be called programming any more than it should be called reciping or able to follow and write instructions. |
| 17:11 |
marktraceur |
Brains: Some people don't have the capacity for it, or the interest, that's not a bad thing really |
| 17:11 |
acerspyro |
No, that's not it |
| 17:11 |
acerspyro |
Everyone should be able to deduce from a menu what everything does |
| 17:12 |
* rubenwardy |
detests the word 'coding' |
| 17:12 |
rubenwardy |
I'm a programmer, bitch. |
| 17:12 |
exio4 |
programming isn't that hard |
| 17:12 |
marktraceur |
Said the programmer. |
| 17:12 |
Brains |
marktraceur: For the higher levels of involement, sure. But I have a hard time believing that significant portions of the population can't write a recipe or give directions. Which is your foot in the door... |
| 17:12 |
acerspyro |
Programming is just a side-effect of being acerspyro. |
| 17:12 |
exio4 |
programming isn't hard. still |
| 17:13 |
exio4 |
what is hard is being a good programmer |
| 17:13 |
exio4 |
this is like being a cook |
| 17:13 |
Brains |
exio4: That is true of pretty much human endeavor.... |
| 17:13 |
marktraceur |
Brains: Giving directions about something you understand is easy, but computers are a different beast |
| 17:13 |
exio4 |
you can cook your food |
| 17:13 |
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| 17:13 |
acerspyro |
I do drunken coding. |
| 17:13 |
marktraceur |
Brains: You can expect humans to not do stupid shit like turn a really big positive number into a really big negative number |
| 17:13 |
acerspyro |
I'm like a cook who forgets his pots on the fire. |
| 17:13 |
marktraceur |
Brains: Or run out of memory |
| 17:13 |
Brains |
marktraceur: Yes, they actually do what you tell them to do. Instructing kindergarteners is far harder but you'd be hard pressed to convince a teacher of that... |
| 17:13 |
marktraceur |
Or do something forever. |
| 17:14 |
Brains |
marktraceur: Heh, you've not met some of the folks I have... |
| 17:14 |
marktraceur |
Maybe! |
| 17:14 |
rubenwardy |
Updated: http://rubenwardy.github.io/minetest_doc/chapters/lua.html |
| 17:15 |
exio4 |
I repeat, programming isn't hard, you just need to think of the problem without being so unambigous, ??, profit |
| 17:15 |
exio4 |
I can't spell |
| 17:15 |
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| 17:15 |
acerspyro |
spelling isnt hard |
| 17:15 |
exio4 |
isn't* |
| 17:15 |
marktraceur |
Agreed acerspyro. |
| 17:15 |
rubenwardy |
programming isn't hard for me. But most people just aren't mathematical enough |
| 17:15 |
rubenwardy |
and logical |
| 17:16 |
exio4 |
"mathematical" what |
| 17:16 |
exio4 |
logical, I agree |
| 17:16 |
rubenwardy |
logic is a field in maths |
| 17:16 |
acerspyro |
I suck at maths |
| 17:16 |
Brains |
rubenwardy: Logic is not something that is magically endowed, it has to be taught and nurtured. Which we don't do. |
| 17:16 |
acerspyro |
But I'm not that bad at logic. |
| 17:16 |
exio4 |
the logic needed for starting programming |
| 17:16 |
exio4 |
is so low.. |
| 17:17 |
exio4 |
I am not saying "kids should be writing compilers at the age of 8" |
| 17:17 |
rubenwardy |
Make sure you don't confuse arithmetic with maths |
| 17:17 |
Brains |
And writing off programming is a prime example of that. You have kids that aren't even in the double digits that can program, but we are going to trust a ton of high speed steel to an adult that claims they can't do that because of the difficulty? |
| 17:17 |
rubenwardy |
I'm talking more about pure maths. |
| 17:17 |
exio4 |
Brains, :( I was off by one year |
| 17:17 |
rubenwardy |
I don't like it when they just give up without trying |
| 17:18 |
Brains |
exio4: It happened far enough back that I don't remember and far enough back that I don't think I'll look closely. *grin* |
| 17:18 |
exio4 |
Brains, I started at 10 |
| 17:18 |
exio4 |
:< |
| 17:19 |
* Brains |
fondly remembers his TRS-80 Color Computer 2... He made his parents take back the Atari 2600 'cause he wanted a computer, not some game system. (His mother developed a blister from playing the 2600, it never went back.) |
| 17:19 |
exio4 |
I am quite young :P |
| 17:19 |
exio4 |
I am not even 18, for what's it worth :P |
| 17:19 |
Brains |
BASIC in the ROM, baby... Even had a tape drive. Which was a cassette player with an extra port for controlling the motor. |
| 17:20 |
acerspyro |
exio4, how young |
| 17:20 |
acerspyro |
17? |
| 17:20 |
exio4 |
right now? yeah |
| 17:20 |
* Brains |
wonders if that whole 13 yr old parental permission thing applies to IRC. |
| 17:20 |
acerspyro |
I'm 16 |
| 17:21 |
acerspyro |
Brains, ? |
| 17:21 |
Calinou |
it's dead, Brains |
| 17:23 |
Brains |
Calinou: It's not! It's just pining for the fjords! |
| 17:23 |
rubenwardy |
Brains, 13 yr thing? |
| 17:24 |
Brains |
IIRC, there are some laws regarding online dealings with folks younger than 13. (US) |
| 17:24 |
exio4 |
laws? what are those? |
| 17:24 |
Krock |
^ |
| 17:24 |
Krock |
this is international |
| 17:24 |
exio4 |
I heard there was a law that talked about privacy, then I heard about the NSA |
| 17:24 |
Calinou |
Brains, AFAIK, in 2010, the COPPA was softened |
| 17:24 |
Calinou |
or removed |
| 17:24 |
Calinou |
but in general, these laws are quite void |
| 17:24 |
rubenwardy |
Ah, that's the US. |
| 17:25 |
exio4 |
and I realized they are a bunch of bullshit written in a nice text |
| 17:25 |
rubenwardy |
Not so in the UK, afaik |
| 17:25 |
rubenwardy |
Of course gambling, porn, games etc are restricted |
| 17:26 |
Brains |
"International" usually means that more than one countries' laws are invovled. *shrug* The US isn't even in the forefront of this kinda stuff, it is more a Euro thing. |
| 17:26 |
exio4 |
2010? I thought it was recent Calinou |
| 17:26 |
Calinou |
games? Minetest! |
| 17:27 |
exio4 |
minetest is +18 |
| 17:27 |
rubenwardy |
games like COD |
| 17:27 |
Brains |
Calinou: It was beefed up in 2013 according to wikipedia. |
| 17:27 |
exio4 |
2013 sounds about right |
| 17:28 |
Brains |
(And most websites and such just stopped allowing children under 13 because it was too much hassle to deal with parental consent/verification/etc.) |
| 17:29 |
Calinou |
people lie all the time on their age |
| 17:29 |
Brains |
Yep, an awful lot of WW1 veterans running around the 'net... |
| 17:30 |
rubenwardy |
The Modding Tutorial Book thing now contains everything, and more, than http://dev.minetest.net/Intro does, and in a better way. |
| 17:30 |
rubenwardy |
Any objections to shamelessly promoting the book on dev.minetest.net/Intro ? |
| 17:30 |
exio4 |
Brains, when I fake my age, I normally use some actually nice age like being 22, or 24 at the time of registering |
| 17:30 |
rubenwardy |
Like, writing "This tutorial is old and hard to understand. The Minetest Modding Online Tutorial Book is a much better guide in learning to mod Minetest." |
| 17:31 |
rubenwardy |
Brains, what is that called? What websites? |
| 17:31 |
rubenwardy |
the law |
| 17:31 |
Brains |
exio4: Might as well pick 25... Get your fake age some nice car rental privileges. |
| 17:31 |
Calinou |
yeah, 25 is a frequent lying age |
| 17:32 |
exio4 |
I look like I am 22~ so I am fine |
| 17:32 |
Brains |
rubenwardy: It was something like Children's Privacy Protection. Lemme pull it back up on wikipedia. |
| 17:32 |
exio4 |
at least my beard makes me a good liar! |
| 17:32 |
Brains |
"Children's Online Privacy Protection Act" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Children%27s_Online_Privacy_Protection_Act |
| 17:33 |
Calinou |
that's COPPA |
| 17:33 |
Brains |
Not to be confused with COPA, CIPA, CDA, or the rest... All which dealt with somewhat similar themes. heh |
| 17:34 |
rubenwardy |
Ah, I confused it with COPA |
| 17:34 |
exio4 |
“What type of school do you go to? (a) elementary; (b) middle; (c) high school; (d) college.†|
| 17:34 |
exio4 |
what if you have a kid that goes to the college, but is just 10 years old? |
| 17:35 |
rubenwardy |
We don't do that |
| 17:35 |
Brains |
exio4: Then they get burned at the stake as a witch. |
| 17:35 |
exio4 |
"this guy's going to college, lets better switch to porn ads" |
| 17:35 |
rubenwardy |
That is discrimination! |
| 17:36 |
Brains |
Discrimination is not necessarily bad... Unlawful discrimination is unlawful though. |
| 17:36 |
marktraceur |
Captain Bleedin' Obvious |
| 17:37 |
Brains |
marktraceur: You caught that, did you... |
| 17:38 |
rubenwardy |
s/unlawful/immoral |
| 17:39 |
marktraceur |
Well, that's an open debate. |
| 17:39 |
rubenwardy |
Saudi Arabia discriminates against women |
| 17:39 |
marktraceur |
There are some types of unlawful discrimination that some would argue are moral |
| 17:39 |
Brains |
rubenwardy: It works for most words... "Red discrimination is red." |
| 17:39 |
rubenwardy |
Some states of America against sexuality |
| 17:39 |
marktraceur |
Quota-based affirmative action programs |
| 17:40 |
rubenwardy |
I was refering to bad |
| 17:40 |
Calinou |
“bad bad BAD BAD BAD†|
| 17:40 |
exio4 |
sieg heil |
| 17:42 |
Brains |
Well that shut everybody up... |
| 17:42 |
|
stormchaser3000 joined #minetest |
| 17:42 |
exio4 |
it was applied godwin |
| 17:43 |
exio4 |
just like you have applied mathematics |
| 17:44 |
rubenwardy |
You lose |
| 17:44 |
Brains |
Unless his goal was merely to shut down that topic, then he wins but it was in bad form. |
| 17:44 |
Brains |
(Directly invoking the conditions for Godwin's Law is considering poor form.) |
| 17:44 |
Brains |
-ing |
| 17:45 |
exio4 |
invoking godwin is a nice way to insta change the topic |
| 17:45 |
|
MinetestForFun joined #minetest |
| 17:45 |
Brains |
So that we can talk about Godwin! |
| 17:45 |
rubenwardy |
Do you time to talk about Godwin? |
| 17:45 |
rubenwardy |
Do you have a moment to talk about Godwin? |
| 17:46 |
exio4 |
it's cool |
| 17:46 |
Calinou |
Godlose |
| 17:46 |
exio4 |
see, it worked |
| 17:46 |
rubenwardy |
/o\ |
| 17:46 |
rubenwardy |
Head-desk |
| 17:47 |
rubenwardy |
I haven't logged into Wikipedia for a while. Maybe I am missing something :O |
| 17:47 |
exio4 |
you are not losing anything worth anyone's time |
| 17:47 |
exio4 |
s/losing/missing |
| 17:48 |
marktraceur |
rubenwardy: Lots of fun stuff! :) |
| 17:48 |
marktraceur |
ArbCom elections happened recently |
| 17:48 |
marktraceur |
AfC queue is absurdly long |
| 17:49 |
rubenwardy |
Nope. Nothing changed on my watch listr |
| 17:49 |
marktraceur |
Aw. |
| 17:52 |
marktraceur |
rubenwardy: Want me to vandalise your pages so you have something to do? :P |
| 17:52 |
rubenwardy |
Can't be bothers |
| 17:52 |
rubenwardy |
-s+e+d |
| 17:53 |
Pentium44 |
hi |
| 17:54 |
|
Wayward_One joined #minetest |
| 17:56 |
Calinou |
<marktraceur> rubenwardy: Lots of fun stuff! :) |
| 17:56 |
Calinou |
like, bans of vandals |
| 17:56 |
marktraceur |
Yuuup |
| 17:56 |
Calinou |
and still no Minetest page |
| 17:56 |
Calinou |
and promotion of “List of My Little Pony characters†as a top-notch page |
| 17:57 |
marktraceur |
Calinou: Did we get significant coverage yet? |
| 17:57 |
Calinou |
Phoronix covered us |
| 17:57 |
Calinou |
YMMV |
| 17:57 |
marktraceur |
"significant" |
| 17:57 |
marktraceur |
Needs more than one source IMO |
| 17:57 |
Calinou |
directory.fsf.org is considered significant by french WP… |
| 17:57 |
* Calinou |
rolls eyes |
| 17:58 |
marktraceur |
Yeah, but French WP is not enwp. |
| 17:58 |
Calinou |
(language wikis are much less strict on this) |
| 17:58 |
Calinou |
while english WP is a battlefield |
| 17:59 |
marktraceur |
Like love. |
| 18:03 |
|
T4im joined #minetest |
| 18:03 |
rubenwardy |
http://www.phoronix.com/forums/showthread.php?111481-Minetest-0-4-11-Released-As-Open-Source-Alternative-To-Minecraft/page2 |
| 18:03 |
rubenwardy |
They are claiming Minetest is illegal due to simularities. |
| 18:03 |
Calinou |
I usually stop reading the forum thread after I replied |
| 18:03 |
rubenwardy |
Your chariot awaits you, Calinou |
| 18:03 |
Calinou |
I strafejump away. |
| 18:03 |
rubenwardy |
Lol |
| 18:03 |
exio4 |
yup, it is illegel |
| 18:03 |
rubenwardy |
"Is this game different enough from Minecraft to be legal?" |
| 18:04 |
rubenwardy |
I hate how people think you can copyright ideas. |
| 18:04 |
rubenwardy |
s'not true |
| 18:04 |
|
crazyR_ joined #minetest |
| 18:04 |
VanessaE |
you can trademark the visual implementation of an idea |
| 18:05 |
VanessaE |
but only to a certain degree |
| 18:05 |
rubenwardy |
that's not copyright |
| 18:05 |
VanessaE |
no but it's governed by the same office and the same general set of laws |
| 18:05 |
rubenwardy |
But they didn't do that, anyway |
| 18:05 |
T4im |
VanessaE: u.s. or e.u,? ;) |
| 18:05 |
rubenwardy |
It's IP |
| 18:05 |
VanessaE |
T4im: yes. :) |
| 18:05 |
rubenwardy |
In the UK it is under the Copyrights and Patents act 1988 |
| 18:06 |
rubenwardy |
Not sure where trademarks are |
| 18:06 |
VanessaE |
rubenwardy: likely lumped in with patents |
| 18:06 |
VanessaE |
in the US, that's where they are |
| 18:06 |
rubenwardy |
Most likely |
| 18:06 |
Calinou |
do the USPTO dance! |
| 18:06 |
Calinou |
now with “Oppa Patent Style†|
| 18:06 |
T4im |
Krock: short question, is there any particular reason, why you removed the chat notification about bone location? |
| 18:07 |
|
Pest joined #minetest |
| 18:07 |
VanessaE |
at any rate, Mojang has no claim here because they are, themselves, copying someone else's trademark (infiniminer) as are we |
| 18:07 |
Krock |
T4im, tab fail? |
| 18:07 |
T4im |
Krock: aren't you smalljoker on github? |
| 18:07 |
exio4 |
The latest version of Minetest can be downloaded at Minetest.net. Thanks to Phoronix reader and Minetest contributor "Calinou" for letting us know about this latest update to the game in ending out 2014. |
| 18:07 |
Krock |
oh right. bones at MTG |
| 18:07 |
T4im |
ya |
| 18:07 |
|
carjack joined #minetest |
| 18:07 |
exio4 |
we've our own marketing sector apparently :p |
| 18:07 |
* exio4 |
hugs Calinou |
| 18:07 |
Krock |
I thought the discussion can be found on the merge request |
| 18:08 |
T4im |
just doing some fixes myself and wondered where that message went :D |
| 18:08 |
T4im |
if you removed it accidentally, I'll just add it back, if that's fine with you |
| 18:08 |
rubenwardy |
Hoodedice won't be happy that you replaced him |
| 18:08 |
Calinou |
doing outreach is cool, albeit slightly risky |
| 18:08 |
Krock |
ye sure but I thought BlockMen did not agree with the position |
| 18:08 |
Calinou |
I should e-mail freegamer too |
| 18:08 |
Krock |
something like "it would be too easy to find the bones again" |
| 18:09 |
T4im |
ah, ok... is there a pullrequest comment or issue on that? |
| 18:09 |
carjack |
what happened in minetest politics? |
| 18:09 |
T4im |
just so I can get some context :D |
| 18:09 |
rubenwardy |
I'd say 0.4.11 is reaching a stabl-ish point in terms of bugs. We still need 1) polish, 2) our own identity |
| 18:09 |
rubenwardy |
3) less bugs |
| 18:09 |
marktraceur |
" |
| 18:09 |
marktraceur |
"The reason Minecraft chose not to be open-source is to avoid the catastrophe that Infiniminer faced due to lack of proper modding support. It was made in C#. Thus, to make mods, people would decompile the executables, modify them, then distribute them. This caused severe fragmentation and a lack of upstream development." |
| 18:09 |
rubenwardy |
That irrated me |
| 18:09 |
marktraceur |
So...instead, clone in Java and also don't make proper modding support. |
| 18:09 |
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| 18:10 |
marktraceur |
So people decompile the executables, modify them, then redistribute them. |
| 18:10 |
T4im |
but minecraft _was_ open source in the beginning, wasn't it? |
| 18:10 |
marktraceur |
Nope. |
| 18:10 |
carjack |
marktraceur, BS but it worked from a marketing point of view |
| 18:10 |
Krock |
T4im, uhmm https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/commit/d47201f8136a0fe588143a112ba2aa1c713620b1 |
| 18:10 |
exio4 |
our own identity is easy |
| 18:10 |
exio4 |
just make the cubes round! |
| 18:11 |
Calinou |
it never was, T4im |
| 18:11 |
Calinou |
they like to make people think it is |
| 18:11 |
exio4 |
Minecraft is crap |
| 18:11 |
exio4 |
mostly because that |
| 18:11 |
Krock |
Minecrap :3 |
| 18:11 |
carjack |
minecrapft |
| 18:11 |
carjack |
sounds more german |
| 18:11 |
exio4 |
crapcraft |
| 18:11 |
marktraceur |
It's a good game, and decent software, just lacks some things |
| 18:11 |
Brains |
My favorite part of that thread is that most of the posts were not on "OMG Minetest Illegal!" but "Minecraft sucks. So. Bad." |
| 18:12 |
Krock |
ask the same thing on the MC forums |
| 18:12 |
Krock |
and you'll get the 1st type of messages |
| 18:12 |
redstonecraftpl |
happy new year :) |
| 18:12 |
carjack |
you can't do anything decent with java without professional java programmers |
| 18:12 |
Krock |
redstonecraftpl, for you too. |
| 18:12 |
Calinou |
it is not 2015 here yet (GMT+1) |
| 18:13 |
exio4 |
professional java programmers don't want to write in java |
| 18:13 |
exio4 |
because they know it is a shit language |
| 18:13 |
exio4 |
and if it s a hobby, the last thing they'll want is a shit language |
| 18:14 |
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srifqi joined #minetest |
| 18:14 |
Brains |
Plenty of java fans out there... *shrug* |
| 18:14 |
srifqi |
Hi! Good night. |
| 18:15 |
Brains |
Plenty of C# fans too. |
| 18:15 |
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| 18:15 |
exio4 |
the only way to like java, is because it's the only thing you know |
| 18:15 |
T4im |
exio4: as a professional java dev, I don't agree with your statement... I just dislike oracle, but that's not javas fault :P |
| 18:15 |
exio4 |
T4im, tell me what can java do that other languages don't do better |
| 18:16 |
exio4 |
abstractions? Java has lots of useless abstractions as workarounds of the lack of expresiveness, the type system? it's crap, that is why people prefer dynamic languages! |
| 18:16 |
carjack |
http://steamcommunity.com/groups/minetestc55#members |
| 18:16 |
T4im |
the big benefits is the huge ecosphere of preexisting code (like only c/c++ has) in combination with the currently best optized bytecode exexuting jit there is |
| 18:16 |
T4im |
exio4: its not about the language... that's just a tool.. if you don't like it, write in clojure, jython, scala, groovy or any other one.. :P as a java dev I use it because of the jvm |
| 18:17 |
T4im |
and the libraries available |
| 18:17 |
Brains |
T4im: Can't claim the jvm, plenty of other languages use it. |
| 18:17 |
|
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| 18:17 |
exio4 |
T4im, if Java was a plane, it'd be a bike |
| 18:17 |
exio4 |
because it is counterintuitive to use, and isn't actually a good tool1 |
| 18:17 |
exio4 |
s/1// |
| 18:17 |
Brains |
(Though I believe there are still some political issues around the jvm and standards. Don't follow it enough to keep track of it though.) |
| 18:18 |
T4im |
Brains: yes, but you always _also_ use java,… any other jvm languages make huge use of linking with java libs… :) |
| 18:18 |
carjack |
java is fine but it is like giving a gun to a baby (compared to C - which would be a pencil) |
| 18:18 |
exio4 |
no, it is like saying "I need to cook food, I better add poison!" |
| 18:19 |
exio4 |
it is like COBOL, we're just stuck with it because Java enterprises(tm) use it and believe standards like those are good |
| 18:19 |
T4im |
exio4: if it weren't a good tool for _something_ it wouldn't be around so big… why do people always call java people biased? :P I'm always the guy stating the "use the right tool for the right job, and don't compare apples with oranges without having stated what you compare them for" |
| 18:20 |
exio4 |
T4im, that is the "popularity fallacy", X used a lot doesn't implies X is good |
| 18:20 |
Brains |
T4im: While I think exio4 is overselling the point, appeals to popularity are not really good counters. |
| 18:20 |
exio4 |
Windows is used more than Linux! it's probably better! |
| 18:20 |
T4im |
exio4: lets call it and indicator… meh… |
| 18:20 |
T4im |
an* |
| 18:21 |
Brains |
T4im: The lack of decent non-java libraries for jvm-based languages doesn't sound like a good point to me. |
| 18:21 |
exio4 |
the only good things that can be said about Java, aren't part of the language |
| 18:21 |
exio4 |
which is _what_ I said I find useless crap |
| 18:21 |
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Pest joined #minetest |
| 18:21 |
exio4 |
T4im, what languages do you know? |
| 18:22 |
T4im |
define "know" |
| 18:22 |
Brains |
exio4: You go overboard. *shrug* Java is a functional tool as evidenced by its use in building software. |
| 18:22 |
acerspyro |
"English and French" |
| 18:22 |
T4im |
exio4: I am not just coding java… I code in the language I deem most helpful for the problem |
| 18:22 |
|
srifqi left #minetest |
| 18:23 |
exio4 |
Brains, I don't think so |
| 18:23 |
exio4 |
it is a functional tool, as long as the other tools are Brainfuck and PHP |
| 18:23 |
T4im |
and there are problems java is better at than many other popular languages (and popularity is in this case often required.. noone wants to write in future abandonware) |
| 18:23 |
T4im |
especially when modularity is involvewd |
| 18:23 |
T4im |
involved* |
| 18:23 |
exio4 |
modularity in the OOP world is a scam |
| 18:23 |
Brains |
exio4: You can claim it is not the best tool but software has been written in it that achieved the desired goals. Denying that just makes your side of the argument look silly. |
| 18:24 |
exio4 |
Brains, this is about the programer cost |
| 18:24 |
Brains |
exio4: You've just about driven me from my usual pee-on-Java side to defending it. |
| 18:25 |
exio4 |
I'll say that Java as a language, makes it easier to make someone "productive" on it easily |
| 18:25 |
exio4 |
there is no way to make good code on Java |
| 18:25 |
Brains |
I've heard that but never found it all that true. It always seemed to me to be something somebody who learned C++ but thought it was hard would say... |
| 18:25 |
T4im |
exio4: that's fallacy too |
| 18:26 |
harrison |
i am a fun guy, but it would not be moral to truffle with my feelings |
| 18:26 |
harrison |
morel |
| 18:26 |
harrison |
fungi |
| 18:26 |
harrison |
see what i did there? |
| 18:26 |
exio4 |
T4im, compared to other languages, you can just start on Java, because the language is so primitive that you can't write good |
| 18:26 |
exio4 |
Java is the enterprise version of a turing tarpit |
| 18:26 |
Brains |
Less punning and more punning are necessary to transition this flame war away from being such a boore. |
| 18:27 |
Brains |
-e |
| 18:27 |
Brains |
+e-o |
| 18:27 |
* Brains |
can't even correct correctly. |
| 18:27 |
carjack |
stop trying to correct it, you cannot |
| 18:27 |
T4im |
exio4: I wish that was true… I had to help java people get something together… beyond the "simple" problems, most get overwhelmed quickly and have to learn more than any university could have prepared them for |
| 18:28 |
T4im |
you learn the syntax in a short time, but you cannot learn development in a short time |
| 18:28 |
T4im |
and it goes _always_ over the language… the language becomes utterly unimportant |
| 18:28 |
carjack |
relax http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ytBRQJBPSg |
| 18:28 |
exio4 |
learning development is a cost that is language-agnostic, non-modular languages make it harder though |
| 18:29 |
exio4 |
the "OOP design patterns" also show a flaw of the design |
| 18:29 |
exio4 |
and Java, in the time it was designed, adopting OOP, was just scam |
| 18:29 |
T4im |
well.. i'ma stop here… this has become a flame war… and noone in this channel wants that :p |
| 18:29 |
rubenwardy |
It's not just the syntax with java, it;s the whole folder structure and renamed zip file. |
| 18:30 |
exio4 |
T4im, anyway, what languages have you used? know a language as writing more than <30LOC programs without getting overwhelmed |
| 18:30 |
carjack |
jar jar is the key to all of this |
| 18:31 |
carjack |
30 love of code? |
| 18:31 |
Brains |
exio4: 30LOC or 30*K*LOC |
| 18:31 |
exio4 |
LOC, because in some languages 30kLOC are actually a lot |
| 18:31 |
exio4 |
in Java you get to the K-level easily, in others, it is, well, harder |
| 18:32 |
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| 18:32 |
Brains |
Heh, which is why 30kloc would indicate some familiarity. |
| 18:33 |
Brains |
30LOC is a really frickin' low bar. |
| 18:33 |
exio4 |
I have to see any 30kLOC application written in a functional language, and isn't a really big |
| 18:33 |
carjack |
you can probably write a httpd in obfuscated C |
| 18:33 |
exio4 |
that* |
| 18:34 |
exio4 |
Brains, but yeah, you can make *100 for Java, and *0.5 for APL/J |
| 18:34 |
exio4 |
make it* |
| 18:34 |
exio4 |
grr, I can't english |
| 18:34 |
Brains |
exio4: Certainly, but I wouldn't call myself having used a language were I managed to write 30 lines... |
| 18:35 |
exio4 |
I said getting overwhelmed, too |
| 18:35 |
exio4 |
because, I can write 30 lines of Python too! |
| 18:35 |
exio4 |
but I'd be extremly unproductive |
| 18:35 |
Brains |
were=where. Hate laptop keyboards. |
| 18:36 |
carjack |
I hate keyboard laptops too |
| 18:36 |
* Brains |
peeks into his docker build and sees it still isn't done. Compiling, compiling, compiling... |
| 18:36 |
DarkFire |
lol |
| 18:37 |
DarkFire |
Brains You shoud port minetest to libretro |
| 18:37 |
exio4 |
if you can write 30 lines of code for a random 'easy'[depends of the lang, here!] problem, I would say you are already kind of good at it |
| 18:37 |
* Brains |
summons up the next interesting topic... "So how about those silly irrlicht dependencies for a server-only minetest..." |
| 18:37 |
DarkFire |
Then I can do a free ios version :P |
| 18:37 |
exio4 |
er, I ate the "in a natural way" |
| 18:38 |
exio4 |
if you can write 30 lines of code for a random 'easy'[depends of the lang, here!] problem in a natural way (like it was just a natural language), I would say you are already kind of good at it |
| 18:38 |
exio4 |
there |
| 18:38 |
exio4 |
if you can express yourself pretty easily on a language, in other words |
| 18:38 |
exio4 |
this also talks about the expressiveness! |
| 18:38 |
Brains |
I've seen this weird concept of seeming like a 'natural language' thing and it always makes me wonder why people don't have cars with legs... I mean, it is a 'natural' method of locomotion. |
| 18:39 |
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| 18:39 |
Brains |
/s |
| 18:39 |
|
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| 18:39 |
carjack |
do you need irrlight for server? |
| 18:39 |
exio4 |
I like to think of programming of half art, half logic |
| 18:39 |
exio4 |
as* |
| 18:40 |
Brains |
carjack: Apparently you need the headers, instructions for doing such a build are on the wiki. |
| 18:40 |
exio4 |
seriously, my english is crap today |
| 18:40 |
exio4 |
I can't even write spanish properly, actually :D |
| 18:40 |
carjack |
I dont remember needing the libraries |
| 18:40 |
carjack |
.. oh just the headers |
| 18:42 |
Brains |
Once I get my dockerfiles written, I'll muck about with some ebuilds for irrlicht headers and a dedicated minetest server USE flag for the existing minetest ebuild. |
| 18:43 |
Brains |
Any other gentoo/funtoo folks in here? |
| 18:43 |
exio4 |
I haven't used gentoo in the past two years, mostly because I am lazy |
| 18:44 |
exio4 |
2 years ago: "ohh, I just got this setup, will install debian right now, and tomorrow I start installing gentoo" |
| 18:44 |
exio4 |
I still haven't moved from debian, even thought I dislike where they are heading |
| 18:45 |
Brains |
We just left the java hatefest, it is too early for systemd haterade. |
| 18:45 |
exio4 |
don't worry, I won't say systemd sucks because we all know that ;) |
| 18:45 |
Brains |
DarkFire: I've decided to ignore your request as I couldn't possibly assist in anything that might result in iOS. |
| 18:45 |
DarkFire |
Brains Or every platofrm? |
| 18:45 |
DarkFire |
Like xbox |
| 18:46 |
DarkFire |
Ps3 |
| 18:46 |
DarkFire |
Etc? |
| 18:46 |
DarkFire |
Nice |
| 18:47 |
Brains |
PCMASTERRACE REPRESENT! (Did I copy reddit right?) |
| 18:47 |
exio4 |
PC masterrace, yeah |
| 18:48 |
exio4 |
until you can compile easily on a console, and switch the OS freely, I'll say PC rlz >:3 |
| 18:49 |
carjack |
http://littlealchemy.com/ |
| 18:57 |
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| 18:58 |
rubenwardy |
Hi all! |
| 18:58 |
* exio4 |
slaps rubenwardy |
| 19:02 |
Krock |
carjack, interesting experimental box |
| 19:02 |
carjack |
510 items |
| 19:03 |
rubenwardy |
Wondering why the ore mapgen my mod added didn't work - the mod was disabled. |
| 19:03 |
Krock |
LEL |
| 19:05 |
rubenwardy |
!title https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=10885&p=166568#p166568 |
| 19:05 |
MinetestBot |
rubenwardy: Gaining our own identity, as a gaming experience. - Minetest Forums |
| 19:05 |
rubenwardy |
Any comments? |
| 19:06 |
rubenwardy |
(You don't have to reply, you can just write them here if you like) |
| 19:11 |
carjack |
download minetest, join a server, cannot do anything, ask why, you need interact, ask for interact, no admin around, exit minetest, delete it |
| 19:12 |
carjack |
minetest loses half of the players there |
| 19:13 |
redstonecraftpl |
let;s make better server |
| 19:14 |
redstonecraftpl |
for everyone |
| 19:14 |
exio4 |
I'd like the change to 100-based health, and changes in the hud |
| 19:14 |
redstonecraftpl |
almost all minetest servers is not full often, 3 or 4 users are in |
| 19:14 |
exio4 |
there was a suggestion, I think calinou said it |
| 19:15 |
redstonecraftpl |
why not make cuboids? Hmm? |
| 19:15 |
redstonecraftpl |
ahh |
| 19:15 |
redstonecraftpl |
it is maked |
| 19:15 |
redstonecraftpl |
so why FUCKING INTERACT IS NEED? |
| 19:15 |
exio4 |
what |
| 19:15 |
carjack |
let the newcomers build on a designated part of the map |
| 19:15 |
redstonecraftpl |
sorry for shift |
| 19:15 |
redstonecraftpl |
it is good idea |
| 19:16 |
redstonecraftpl |
and i think if admin join and newcommer ask it can get his house to a new place |
| 19:16 |
redstonecraftpl |
on *royal* normal map |
| 19:16 |
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| 19:17 |
exio4 |
People expect an exact clone, and are disappointed to find out that their are no mobs / insert-feature-here. |
| 19:17 |
exio4 |
People call us a rip off and never try the game, just by the looks. ("How is this legal?? Why doesn't MC sue?") |
| 19:17 |
exio4 |
people is weird and self-contradictory |
| 19:17 |
exio4 |
"I want a MC clone, but then I don't want it to be a MC clone!" |
| 19:17 |
exio4 |
kill them all |
| 19:18 |
carjack |
everygame is a rip off |
| 19:18 |
exio4 |
not all, Minecraft is a totally new game. |
| 19:22 |
carjack |
unique game with unique gameplay |
| 19:26 |
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| 19:26 |
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| 19:29 |
rubenwardy |
WIP. Only added ore so far |
| 19:29 |
rubenwardy |
https://github.com/rubenwardy/alien |
| 19:30 |
redstonecraftpl |
afk |
| 19:32 |
rubenwardy |
lol |
| 19:32 |
rubenwardy |
You're not AFK, you left the room |
| 19:34 |
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| 19:34 |
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| 19:34 |
Megaf |
!server Megaf |
| 19:34 |
MinetestBot |
Megaf: Megaf Server v4.0 | mt.megaf.info:30003 | Clients: 8/10, 3/9 | Version: 0.4.11-dev / MegafXploreNext | Ping: 6ms |
| 19:38 |
rubenwardy |
!sever Megaf |
| 19:43 |
Krock |
!server ping:best |
| 19:43 |
MinetestBot |
Krock: No results |
| 19:43 |
Krock |
!server ping:laest |
| 19:43 |
MinetestBot |
Krock: No results |
| 19:46 |
acerspyro |
!server ping:ass |
| 19:46 |
MinetestBot |
acerspyro: No results |
| 19:46 |
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| 19:51 |
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| 19:52 |
rubenwardy |
http://en.lichess.org/developers |
| 19:52 |
rubenwardy |
Scroll down to the bottom XD |
| 19:53 |
Krock |
rubenwardy, the [Donate] button? |
| 19:53 |
rubenwardy |
No, Lichess Widgets |
| 19:54 |
Krock |
leads to your github page.. |
| 19:55 |
rubenwardy |
XD |
| 19:55 |
Krock |
You broke the system! |
| 19:56 |
rubenwardy |
The Javascript for that website goes to my github |
| 19:56 |
rubenwardy |
I could XSSS |
| 19:56 |
rubenwardy |
* #I could XSS |
| 19:57 |
rubenwardy |
* widget |
| 19:57 |
rubenwardy |
Mw ha ha ha! |
| 19:59 |
rubenwardy |
Lol, it shows my name because I am logged in |
| 20:05 |
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| 20:20 |
redstonecraftpl |
Hi |
| 20:32 |
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| 21:27 |
acerspyro |
Has IrrLicht been updated since 2013? |
| 21:28 |
acerspyro |
irrlicht* |
| 21:29 |
RealBadAngel |
acerspyro, irrlicht is an ongoing project |
| 21:30 |
RealBadAngel |
check its site for changes |
| 21:30 |
acerspyro |
thought so, someone told me it was inactive since 2013 (?) |
| 21:31 |
RealBadAngel |
theyre not in hurry for sure |
| 21:31 |
RealBadAngel |
since im a contributor to minetest i remember just one major shift from 1.7 to 1.8 |
| 21:37 |
jojoa1997 |
Ooh this is cool |
| 21:38 |
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| 21:38 |
jojoa1997 |
I am finally doing a lua tutorial and some stuff are starting to make sense. |
| 21:38 |
jojoa1997 |
Well it also helped that i to a class in programming too but I am starting to understand what others are writing |
| 21:41 |
Brains |
Okay, I'm missing something important here... Can somebody point me to some docs on creating a new world via a dedicated server? |
| 21:42 |
LazyJ |
Brains, it may be easier to start the world locally as a singleplayer world, then transfer it to the server and run it from there. |
| 21:43 |
jojoa1997 |
dint you just start the server? |
| 21:43 |
jojoa1997 |
*dont |
| 21:44 |
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| 21:45 |
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| 21:45 |
LazyJ |
You could create the directory on the dedicated server and write a world.mt file. Then, when you start the server, make sure that you use the same name you gave the directory for the worldname. |
| 21:45 |
Arch-TK |
Why does the lua_api markdown file have the txt extension? |
| 21:45 |
Inocudom |
Calinou isn't here right now, is he? |
| 21:46 |
LazyJ |
I think there is a forum thread debating whether or not to use .md or .txt. The catch was Windows doesn't know what to do with a .md file yet. |
| 21:47 |
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| 21:47 |
Arch-TK |
windows doesn't know what to do with any file. |
| 21:48 |
Arch-TK |
Using the extension as the main hint of what to do with files is really silly. |
| 21:49 |
LazyJ |
The extensions help the humans to see what types the files are. |
| 21:49 |
Arch-TK |
that's not relevant to my point. |
| 21:51 |
Arch-TK |
and in any case, visual queues like colour and symbols are a much better indication of what something is than an extension. |
| 21:52 |
exio4 |
LazyJ, the extension is for the human, and then you get dog.png.exe |
| 21:53 |
LazyJ |
Humans can add whatever characters they want to create an extension. |
| 21:53 |
redstonecraftpl |
Arch-TK declaration on start of the file could be used, not the extension |
| 21:53 |
redstonecraftpl |
declaration like PSX-EXE |
| 21:53 |
redstonecraftpl |
or ELF |
| 21:54 |
redstonecraftpl |
in HEX |
| 21:54 |
Arch-TK |
such declarations are used in linux for example. |
| 21:54 |
* Brains |
adds a gameid entry to the world.mt file and we're apparently off and running |
| 21:54 |
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| 21:54 |
Arch-TK |
by things like FILE(1) |
| 21:54 |
LazyJ |
I'm drawing from my experience in dealing with a large variety of graphic file types through the days of MSDos, Mac, Linux, and proprietary trade software. |
| 21:55 |
Arch-TK |
and also usually file managers if people decide to use them. |
| 21:55 |
redstonecraftpl |
what image file for dos? BMP and what? any other? |
| 21:55 |
Arch-TK |
yes, where jpg is an umberlla term for 2 different storage formats. |
| 21:55 |
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| 21:55 |
LazyJ |
Between dog.sw, dog.pdf, dog.eps, dog.rip, dog.cdr, and dog.lrt - which one does your plotter need, which one does the secretary need, and which one does the subcontractor need? |
| 21:56 |
Arch-TK |
there are times when extensions are useful but something like windows should not be using them to dictate what to do with a file. |
| 21:56 |
Arch-TK |
but such is the restriction of the current registry based format for figuring out how to run things. |
| 21:56 |
Arch-TK |
which already seems to be an awful mess. |
| 21:58 |
redstonecraftpl |
LazyJ, dog.rip are for subcontractor! RIP !! |
| 21:58 |
redstonecraftpl |
eps for plotter |
| 21:58 |
redstonecraftpl |
pdf for secretary |
| 21:58 |
Arch-TK |
In addition to the fact that manually managing it is unweildy and that changing the name of something changes how it's opened it also gives people the false idea that somehow if something is not a .txt it can't be read by humans. |
| 21:58 |
Arch-TK |
or that somehow .txt is some "special filetype" |
| 21:59 |
Arch-TK |
I've had to explain to someone that .txt is just part of the name and has no bearing on what's in the file, and that all files are stored equally and any indication of what they are can only be ever stored within them or with their name. |
| 21:59 |
acerspyro |
lol |
| 21:59 |
acerspyro |
That's fucking stupid |
| 21:59 |
LazyJ |
The plotter neede the .ltr, the subcontractor the .pdf, and the secretary's billing program couldn't handle any of the files. |
| 22:00 |
Arch-TK |
and the fact that to get windows to open all files with no extensions you actually have to edit the registry is mind boggling. |
| 22:00 |
Arch-TK |
(open with something specific like vim) |
| 22:02 |
redstonecraftpl |
Arch-TK i suggest installing linux: Ubuntu for complette dumbs, Mint for low-level dumbs, Debian for **ADVANCED** users, or even any other distro: floppix for minimalists, knoppix for someone fastly changning computers [...] |
| 22:03 |
Arch-TK |
or archlinux. |
| 22:03 |
redstonecraftpl |
just for Arch-TK |
| 22:03 |
Arch-TK |
https://a.pomf.se/nuatii.png |
| 22:03 |
redstonecraftpl |
i am using debian XD advanced USER XDD |
| 22:03 |
acerspyro |
OpenSUSE for the whole pack without the bullshit that usually comes with it. |
| 22:04 |
Arch-TK |
I've been using archlinux for a year now and I don't understand why people say it's complicated. |
| 22:04 |
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| 22:05 |
acerspyro |
Arch-TK, Neither do I |
| 22:05 |
Arch-TK |
It never breaks. |
| 22:05 |
acerspyro |
But it fucked up on me, and everything was buggy, so I put Ubuntu on my computer. Such a regrettable decision. |
| 22:05 |
Arch-TK |
Unless I break something. |
| 22:05 |
Arch-TK |
then it's easy to fix. |
| 22:05 |
acerspyro |
Arch-TK, I manage to fuck up computers |
| 22:05 |
Arch-TK |
right |
| 22:06 |
acerspyro |
My Minetest map gens show it, chunks generate accordingly to the next one |
| 22:06 |
acerspyro |
So it creates huge height difference. |
| 22:06 |
Arch-TK |
What minetest needs is computercraft. |
| 22:06 |
acerspyro |
no |
| 22:06 |
acerspyro |
Better performance |
| 22:07 |
Arch-TK |
Or essentially the equivalent. |
| 22:07 |
acerspyro |
An update to Irrlicht |
| 22:07 |
acerspyro |
Then computercraft, or equivalent. |
| 22:07 |
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| 22:08 |
Arch-TK |
So I'm guessing minetest uses this irrlicht? |
| 22:08 |
redstonecraftpl |
Arch-TK, you are 100% right |
| 22:08 |
Arch-TK |
right |
| 22:08 |
exio4 |
Arch-TK, it only breaks if you don't take care of it |
| 22:08 |
exio4 |
just like most systems.. |
| 22:08 |
twenty319 |
exactely |
| 22:08 |
exio4 |
the problem with archlinux, it is that it needs more care than other distros |
| 22:09 |
Arch-TK |
Nah. |
| 22:09 |
Arch-TK |
I run pacman -Syu every now and again |
| 22:09 |
redstonecraftpl |
xdd22.prv.pl/amiga/screennew.png |
| 22:09 |
Arch-TK |
after making sure to check the archlinux-announce ML |
| 22:09 |
acerspyro |
I don't want to have to take care of it all the time |
| 22:09 |
Arch-TK |
and then it works fine |
| 22:09 |
exio4 |
I haven't used in the past years, I have to say though, so my complaints may be outdated |
| 22:09 |
redstonecraftpl |
Arch-TK, check out my debian desktop :D |
| 22:09 |
acerspyro |
I want to be able to do my stuff, and that I don't have to fix shit on my system all the time. |
| 22:09 |
Arch-TK |
redstonecraftpl: your URI is lacking a protocol |
| 22:09 |
exio4 |
I used it for 2 years, then I got tired of it breaking and fucking up with my configurations |
| 22:10 |
redstonecraftpl |
Sorry |
| 22:10 |
Arch-TK |
redstonecraftpl: so much wasted space :( |
| 22:10 |
redstonecraftpl |
http://xdd22.prv.pl/amiga/screennew.png |
| 22:10 |
acerspyro |
I have opensuse downloaded |
| 22:10 |
redstonecraftpl |
ya know |
| 22:10 |
redstonecraftpl |
oldschool xD |
| 22:10 |
exio4 |
Arch-TK, what WM btw? |
| 22:10 |
Arch-TK |
exio4: i3 |
| 22:10 |
acerspyro |
I'll fuck it on a DVD and I'll install it |
| 22:10 |
Arch-TK |
i3 tiling window manager |
| 22:10 |
exio4 |
heh |
| 22:10 |
acerspyro |
Arch-TK, I was using KDE, can't stand barebone stuff |
| 22:11 |
exio4 |
have you tried xmonad? |
| 22:11 |
Arch-TK |
I have at some point. |
| 22:11 |
Arch-TK |
not for long. Actually I was testing between xmonad, awesome and i3 |
| 22:11 |
exio4 |
I have things like xmonad in my TODO list, I am just too lazy, so I just use KDE |
| 22:11 |
Arch-TK |
and needed to get something running quickly |
| 22:11 |
Arch-TK |
so didn't have time to learn haskell to figure out how to configure xmonad |
| 22:11 |
Arch-TK |
(At least I think it uses haskell) |
| 22:11 |
exio4 |
it does |
| 22:11 |
exio4 |
that is why I talk about it! |
| 22:12 |
* exio4 |
is a haskell fanboy |
| 22:12 |
Arch-TK |
hmm |
| 22:12 |
Arch-TK |
acerspyro: Ah yes, you're also polish. |
| 22:12 |
acerspyro |
Wut |
| 22:12 |
Arch-TK |
hmm |
| 22:12 |
Arch-TK |
wait |
| 22:12 |
acerspyro |
What do you mean I'm polish? |
| 22:12 |
Arch-TK |
wrong person |
| 22:12 |
Arch-TK |
redstonecraftpl: You're polish. |
| 22:12 |
acerspyro |
lol |
| 22:12 |
Arch-TK |
interesting. |
| 22:12 |
exio4 |
I love the idea of having a staticly typed window manager >:3 |
| 22:12 |
acerspyro |
I'm canadian >:[ |
| 22:13 |
Arch-TK |
I was looking at that screenshot again and suddenly wondered why everything was in polish. |
| 22:13 |
exio4 |
english for interfaces ftw |
| 22:13 |
exio4 |
even though I don't really english as a language |
| 22:14 |
acerspyro |
English for interfaces |
| 22:14 |
acerspyro |
Agreed |
| 22:14 |
Arch-TK |
at least I don't need to reinstall my operating system to change the "system language" or whatever windows calls it. |
| 22:14 |
acerspyro |
I speak french as a first language |
| 22:14 |
Arch-TK |
I mean you can change the locale in windows, but the prompts stay english. |
| 22:14 |
Brains |
Heh, whoops... Just OOMed by firing up minetest. |
| 22:14 |
exio4 |
haskell.org/wikiupload/a/aa/Screen-triplehead-galois.jpg my goal for the past year |
| 22:14 |
Arch-TK |
Well. I don't know about anything above XP |
| 22:14 |
exio4 |
not the keyboard though, I am not rich :D |
| 22:14 |
Arch-TK |
But in XP you had to reinstall the operating system to change from polish to english. |
| 22:14 |
acerspyro |
Arch-TK, You still need to re-install |
| 22:14 |
Arch-TK |
because some application required the system to be in english to work |
| 22:15 |
exio4 |
my first language is spanish, and my second one is english, sadly, I can't speak any of those properly :D |
| 22:15 |
exio4 |
neither of those*? |
| 22:16 |
acerspyro |
lol |
| 22:16 |
jojoa1997` |
What version of Lua does minetest use? |
| 22:16 |
acerspyro |
I speak and write both perfectly, but I don't know anything of other languages. |
| 22:17 |
exio4 |
acerspyro, my english is mostly self-taught, so I do beginners mistakes all the time :p |
| 22:18 |
acerspyro |
mine too, but I started young |
| 22:18 |
exio4 |
I started like 3-2 years ago |
| 22:18 |
Arch-TK |
jojoa1997`: 5.2.3 wfm |
| 22:18 |
acerspyro |
I started 11 years ago, at 5 |
| 22:19 |
exio4 |
and programming? |
| 22:19 |
jojoa1997` |
what does wfm mean? |
| 22:19 |
exio4 |
works for me |
| 22:19 |
Arch-TK |
I moved to the UK at the age of 9. |
| 22:19 |
exio4 |
it uses a bundled version if you don't have one anyway |
| 22:19 |
RealBadAngel |
guys, how is your new year is coming? |
| 22:19 |
Arch-TK |
And i'm now 18. So I've had 9 full years of practice. |
| 22:19 |
exio4 |
I've never been in an english-speaking country :/ |
| 22:19 |
RealBadAngel |
i do have 40 minutes left just |
| 22:20 |
Arch-TK |
People use me as a thesaurus sometimes. |
| 22:20 |
exio4 |
RealBadAngel, 7:20pm over here :P |
| 22:20 |
RealBadAngel |
pluses of livin in europe :P we do have year shift at the right time lol :P |
| 22:21 |
acerspyro |
We keep new year for later |
| 22:21 |
RealBadAngel |
anyway bottoms up :) |
| 22:21 |
RealBadAngel |
cheers |
| 22:21 |
Arch-TK |
New year in 1 hour and 40 minutes ish |
| 22:22 |
jojoa1997` |
wait it is new years? |
| 22:22 |
acerspyro |
New year in 23 years, 7 hours and 38 minutes |
| 22:22 |
exio4 |
\o rba, happy new year |
| 22:22 |
jojoa1997` |
were have i been |
| 22:22 |
exio4 |
jojoa1997`, in a hole |
| 22:22 |
jojoa1997` |
acerspyro 23 hours |
| 22:22 |
jojoa1997` |
exio4 WRONG! |
| 22:22 |
Arch-TK |
a hole covered by a rock. |
| 22:23 |
acerspyro |
no, 23 years |
| 22:23 |
jojoa1997` |
the correct answer is under a rock under a mountain |
| 22:23 |
acerspyro |
There will be another new year in 23 years |
| 22:23 |
acerspyro |
jojoa1997`, The rock is the mountain |
| 22:23 |
jojoa1997` |
no a mountain was placed on top of the rock silly |
| 22:23 |
acerspyro |
Were you placed under the mountain too? |
| 22:25 |
jojoa1997` |
silly acerspyro the rock is my home |
| 22:25 |
jojoa1997` |
Im patrick |
| 22:25 |
acerspyro |
There's no mountain over his house |
| 22:26 |
Arch-TK |
I dug down 1000 blocks in minetest about 20 minutes ago and found jojoa1997` |
| 22:26 |
jojoa1997` |
that is the difference between me and patrick |
| 22:26 |
acerspyro |
the name |
| 22:26 |
acerspyro |
[17:25] <jojoa1997`> Im patrick |
| 22:26 |
acerspyro |
Contradictory |
| 22:26 |
jojoa1997` |
acerspyro GET THE JOKE!!! |
| 22:26 |
acerspyro |
I can't reach it! |
| 22:26 |
acerspyro |
Send it by Fed Ex! |
| 22:26 |
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| 22:27 |
* jojoa1997` |
accidentally sends acerspyro a bomb |
| 22:27 |
jojoa1997` |
:3 |
| 22:27 |
* acerspyro |
sends the bomb back to jojoa1997` as a thank you gift |
| 22:28 |
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| 22:28 |
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| 22:28 |
jojoa1997` |
thank you I might be able to blow a tiny hole in this door |
| 22:28 |
jojoa1997` |
darn didnt work |
| 22:28 |
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| 22:32 |
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| 22:35 |
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| 22:36 |
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| 22:37 |
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| 22:37 |
Arch-TK |
I should work out what these numbered orange lights on the front of the box I call my "server box" mean. |
| 22:40 |
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| 22:43 |
RealBadAngel |
17 minutes to go |
| 22:43 |
VanessaE |
still several hours to go, here |
| 22:43 |
RealBadAngel |
how full is YOUR glass? :) |
| 22:43 |
Jordach |
hang on |
| 22:44 |
Brains |
6.25hr or so here. |
| 22:44 |
VanessaE |
it's empty, but the fridge is well-stocked ;) |
| 22:44 |
Jordach |
there's a solution to our inability for infinite worlds |
| 22:44 |
VanessaE |
Jordach: auto-teleport to a new world at the edge of the current world? |
| 22:44 |
* Brains |
finally has a dedicated server running. Time to kill it and rework it. |
| 22:44 |
twenty319_ |
about 7 hours left for me |
| 22:44 |
Jordach |
> This data format has a certain precision, leading to visible imperfections on objects located further than 10km from the origin |
| 22:44 |
Jordach |
> the world in Space Engineers is split into independent clusters, wherein each object has its own coordinates relative to the cluster center. |
| 22:44 |
RealBadAngel |
VanessaE, get one, dont let be empty on zero time in europe ;) |
| 22:45 |
Brains |
How Eurocentric... |
| 22:45 |
VanessaE |
RealBadAngel: heh, well I'm on EST, i.e. New York time. my glass will be quite full about 6 hours from now ;) |
| 22:45 |
RealBadAngel |
yup |
| 22:45 |
Jordach |
VanessaE, instead of moving the camera around the world mesh, convert it to moving the mesh around the camera |
| 22:45 |
RealBadAngel |
as always ;) |
| 22:45 |
Taoki[laptop] |
Aaaand new year here. Happy new year everyone :) |
| 22:45 |
RealBadAngel |
we are CET |
| 22:45 |
VanessaE |
Jordach: it's already a hybrid of the two systems |
| 22:45 |
* Brains |
believes that imbibing should occur at all points of the globe. Any excuse for a party, as they say. (Said with an empty glass.) |
| 22:46 |
Jordach |
VanessaE, have 62km areas, like part(x,y)] |
| 22:46 |
Jordach |
and at the edges, load both for the client |
| 22:47 |
VanessaE |
Jordach: extending the world beyond the edges is not that hard. DISPLAYING the extension is the hard part. |
| 22:48 |
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| 22:48 |
VanessaE |
worst-case scenario, you'd have to display up to eight other extensions all at once |
| 22:48 |
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| 22:48 |
Jordach |
VanessaE, basically at the edges merge +/-31 to the new edge of +/-31 |
| 22:48 |
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| 22:49 |
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| 22:49 |
Jordach |
weld them together to make a 64km cluster, and then chop it to 32km around the player |
| 22:49 |
Jordach |
as soon as the player is far enough into the new cluster, remove the old one from memory |
| 22:50 |
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| 22:50 |
Jordach |
and remerge one half with it's other half |
| 22:52 |
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| 22:53 |
RealBadAngel |
7 |
| 22:54 |
RealBadAngel |
6 |
| 22:55 |
Jordach |
VanessaE, imagine a giant chocolate bar with each square being 32km, and you're on the edge of one square |
| 22:55 |
Jordach |
then break off a 1x2 segment in the closest edge to the new cluster |
| 22:55 |
RealBadAngel |
5 |
| 22:55 |
redstonecraftpl |
HAPPY NEW YEAR |
| 22:56 |
* RealBadAngel |
prepares to open ÑоветÑкое игриÑтое |
| 22:57 |
RealBadAngel |
theres Final Countdown played on the radio lol |
| 22:58 |
RealBadAngel |
2 |
| 22:58 |
Arch-TK |
what timer are you using? |
| 22:59 |
RealBadAngel |
1 |
| 22:59 |
RealBadAngel |
kinda atomic one |
| 22:59 |
* Brains |
wonders how many people are still running the vuln version of ntpd... |
| 22:59 |
RealBadAngel |
idk to which one im synced :P |
| 23:00 |
VanessaE |
RealBadAngel: noz drovya :) |
| 23:00 |
VanessaE |
(sp) |
| 23:00 |
* Arch-TK |
runs 4.2.8 |
| 23:00 |
Arch-TK |
Hmm. |
| 23:00 |
Arch-TK |
Only 1 hour till midnight. |
| 23:01 |
Arch-TK |
There's a lot of champagne downstairs. |
| 23:01 |
RealBadAngel |
guys |
| 23:01 |
RealBadAngel |
here it is! |
| 23:01 |
RealBadAngel |
the little 2015 one |
| 23:01 |
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| 23:01 |
RealBadAngel |
happy new one!!!! |
| 23:01 |
VanessaE |
happy new year RealBadAngel :) |
| 23:01 |
RealBadAngel |
we are goin outside brb |
| 23:01 |
Arch-TK |
you're 59 minutes early :P |
| 23:01 |
Arch-TK |
there's only one true timezone |
| 23:01 |
Arch-TK |
obviously |
| 23:02 |
Arch-TK |
UTC |
| 23:02 |
Megaf |
Yep |
| 23:02 |
Megaf |
It's 23:02 here |
| 23:02 |
Megaf |
03 now |
| 23:02 |
Arch-TK |
hmm |
| 23:02 |
Megaf |
UTC -0 here :) |
| 23:02 |
* Arch-TK |
wonders which time to trust. |
| 23:03 |
Brains |
Arch-TK: Better toast all of them, just to be sure... |
| 23:03 |
Arch-TK |
both my local radio time clock and arch.pool.ntp.org pools give me 23:03:30 |
| 23:03 |
Arch-TK |
Brains: You mean get really drunk? |
| 23:04 |
RealBadAngel |
anyway, BOTTOMS UP |
| 23:04 |
Arch-TK |
It's surprising how close the local radio time and the network time are. |
| 23:04 |
Arch-TK |
I should run my own local timeserver on my "server box"â„¢ |
| 23:04 |
Brains |
Arch-TK: I suppose if that is your thing... |
| 23:04 |
Arch-TK |
then all my machines will have _exactly_ the same time. |
| 23:04 |
Brains |
Arch-TK: Yeah, local time is good time. |
| 23:05 |
Brains |
(Very important for proper logs.) |
| 23:05 |
Arch-TK |
sync the box to some pools or something but localized time :D |
| 23:05 |
RealBadAngel |
who cares bout logs today? |
| 23:05 |
RealBadAngel |
glass has to be full and emptied |
| 23:05 |
Arch-TK |
RealBadAngel: working out what broke on your network requires that times on all machines are synchronised. |
| 23:05 |
RealBadAngel |
fuck the logs ;) |
| 23:05 |
Brains |
Arch-TK: I think he is thinking specifically *this* day... |
| 23:06 |
Arch-TK |
hmm |
| 23:06 |
Arch-TK |
maybe |
| 23:06 |
RealBadAngel |
maybe? |
| 23:06 |
* VanessaE |
pours RealBadAngel another glass :) |
| 23:06 |
RealBadAngel |
VanessaE, THANK YOU :) |
| 23:06 |
* Brains |
will have to break out some homebrew later. |
| 23:06 |
Arch-TK |
I say.. |
| 23:06 |
Arch-TK |
Bigger screens definitely are better. |
| 23:07 |
VanessaE |
I've got 3.75L of suitable alcohol in the fridge waiting for tonight :) |
| 23:07 |
Arch-TK |
What do you mean by suitable? |
| 23:07 |
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| 23:07 |
VanessaE |
alcohol suitable for the occasion :) |
| 23:08 |
Brains |
There is unsuitable alcohol? |
| 23:08 |
VanessaE |
Brains: yeah, beer :P |
| 23:08 |
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| 23:08 |
Brains |
VanessaE: Oh disagree most vehemently. =:P |
| 23:08 |
Arch-TK |
Hmm, 29 days 22 hours and 31 minutes of uptime on this server. |
| 23:08 |
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| 23:09 |
Arch-TK |
(this refers to my main VPS) |
| 23:09 |
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| 23:09 |
redstonecraftpl |
/^\ ## ### # |
| 23:09 |
redstonecraftpl |
|F| /^\ # ## ## # |
| 23:09 |
redstonecraftpl |
|I| |W| # ### # |
| 23:09 |
redstonecraftpl |
|R| |O| ############## |
| 23:09 |
VanessaE |
besides, who rings in the new year with beer? |
| 23:09 |
redstonecraftpl |
|E| |R| # # # ## |
| 23:09 |
redstonecraftpl |
/|\ |K| ## # ## ## |
| 23:09 |
redstonecraftpl |
/|||\ |S| ## # # # |
| 23:09 |
redstonecraftpl |
|!| # # |
| 23:09 |
Arch-TK |
VanessaE: You broke it :( |
| 23:09 |
redstonecraftpl |
/|\ |
| 23:09 |
redstonecraftpl |
/|||\ |
| 23:09 |
Jordach |
ShadowBot, pls |
| 23:10 |
Brains |
VanessaE: I will be this year... Though I wouldn't be turning my nose up at some aged whisk(e)y. You can keep the bubbly... |
| 23:10 |
Jordach |
i prefer my lager based booze |
| 23:10 |
VanessaE |
I've also got some nice, cheap wine :) |
| 23:10 |
RealBadAngel |
ÑоветÑкое игриÑтое |
| 23:11 |
RealBadAngel |
thats something must have |
| 23:11 |
redstonecraftpl |
VanessaE, me too :D |
| 23:11 |
RealBadAngel |
^some bubbles ;) |
| 23:11 |
exio4 |
>cheap wine |
| 23:11 |
Arch-TK |
RealBadAngel: "Soviet sparkling" |
| 23:11 |
exio4 |
>not having some expensive wine for new year |
| 23:11 |
VanessaE |
Brains: so..."keep the bubbly"...meanwhile you're going after a bubbly beverage anyway? :) |
| 23:12 |
RealBadAngel |
thats just a tradition |
| 23:12 |
Arch-TK |
wait whiskey isn't bubbly |
| 23:12 |
Arch-TK |
whisky*? |
| 23:12 |
RealBadAngel |
apart we do have some vodka, some whiskey (kinda old) and a few beers |
| 23:13 |
VanessaE |
RealBadAngel: I've got three 750mL bottles of André champagne and two 1.5L bottles of Arbor Mist strawberry wine |
| 23:13 |
Brains |
VanessaE: While it has bubbles, most folks don't refer to beer as 'bubbly'... |
| 23:13 |
VanessaE |
Brains: I was kidding :P |
| 23:13 |
* Brains |
has to defend his homebrew... |
| 23:14 |
VanessaE |
RealBadAngel: and "a bottle of very, very old scotch" ? :) |
| 23:14 |
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| 23:15 |
* Jordach |
cracks out the 4:20 |
| 23:15 |
Arch-TK |
Hmmm. |
| 23:15 |
Arch-TK |
There _is_ some vodka downstairs... |
| 23:16 |
VanessaE |
Jordach: ain't it a bit early yet? :) |
| 23:16 |
RealBadAngel |
VanessaE, johny walks here and there |
| 23:16 |
* VanessaE |
revokes RealBadAngel's geek card. |
| 23:17 |
RealBadAngel |
geek? i feel kinda pre-industrial lol |
| 23:18 |
Jordach |
VanessaE, take yer pick https://cdn.mediacru.sh/Y/YiBkaKvjUL0c.jpg |
| 23:18 |
RealBadAngel |
z80, asm on tapes |
| 23:18 |
RealBadAngel |
this is prehistoric already lol |
| 23:18 |
VanessaE |
Jordach: G*d damn, boy |
| 23:20 |
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| 23:21 |
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| 23:21 |
carjack |
happy 2012 guys |
| 23:22 |
T4im |
happy 2015 :D |
| 23:23 |
T4im |
I believe this applies to most europeans atm sans uk and portugal |
| 23:23 |
T4im |
current CET has become big O_o |
| 23:23 |
carjack |
isn't portugal in america? |
| 23:24 |
T4im |
that was brazil :) |
| 23:24 |
T4im |
carjack: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Time_zones_of_Europe.svg |
| 23:25 |
T4im |
the left most blue one is portugal ;) |
| 23:25 |
* Brains |
just started reading Cauldron today... Doesn't look good for Europe. |
| 23:27 |
carjack |
it is left out |
| 23:28 |
carjack |
https://encrypted.google.com/#q=honolulu+kirimati+time+difference yet they are so close |
| 23:30 |
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| 23:31 |
carjack |
http://i.imgur.com/CTy479C.jpg |
| 23:36 |
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