Minetest logo

IRC log for #minetest, 2013-12-14

| Channels | #minetest index | Today | | Google Search | Plaintext

All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:00 VanessaE you can if you want, no one's telling you not to.
00:00 john_minetest xiong: NOBODY said something against your way of running a server.
00:00 VanessaE but you will fail if you don't take some precautions.
00:00 xiong This discussion is revolving entirely around what will work; not what might be desirable.
00:00 john_minetest You can do as you like. Just don't think that you can achieve much when talking to people who have tried it and failed.
00:01 Jordach because greifers are like flies, if one appears, there are bound to be many more as a swarm
00:01 Jordach because one griefer knows more, and so on
00:01 xiong Is it not possible to assume, purely for the sake of discussion, that such a thing might work? Then the serious discussion can take place about whether it might be desirable or not.
00:01 Jordach Minetest with hardware lighting: http://i.imgur.com/UsVHk2r.jpg
00:01 VanessaE no, it is not, because it has already been tried before.
00:01 VanessaE Jordach: nice
00:01 ShadowNinja A moderation-free server CAN work, but it's very hard. 0gb.us had a server that was mostly moderation free.
00:01 Jordach VanessaE, just rendered that
00:01 xiong Why are you trying to convince me of this, Jordach? I have said, clearly, that we will take it as a given that spawn produces a continuous stream of annoying players.
00:02 VanessaE Jordach: I'd love to see Minetest actually render like that in realtime
00:02 Jordach xiong, yes, without protection there might as well not have  server
00:02 john_minetest xiong: Why is moderation bad?
00:02 Jordach a server*
00:02 ShadowNinja You need easy and unlimited protection, ala landclain.
00:02 VanessaE ShadowNinja: celeron55's server was unmoderated, as I recall, was it not?
00:02 ShadowNinja VanessaE: I came after that server went down.
00:03 john_minetest globis server was unmoderated. Died. Zegaton I became unmoderated. Players went away, server died.
00:03 xiong John, why is "moderation" necessary? I don't say, Why are you convinced that without moderation, the server will "fail". I ask, Why do you think "moderation" is required, inherently?
00:03 ShadowNinja (I came in after 0.4.3)
00:03 john_minetest xiong: I am talking out of experience.
00:03 VanessaE xiong: I pose this question to you: How many servers need to die due to being unmoderated before you are convinced the idea won't work?
00:03 VanessaE how many?
00:03 VanessaE 5?  10?  50?
00:04 john_minetest xiong: You are not the first one thinking that server owners shouldn't interact that much. If it would work, everybody would use that principle.
00:04 VanessaE assume the server lacks things like land claim, areas, etc.
00:04 xiong You are talking from experience when you say that "moderation" is necessary or the server will "fail". But -- that is not the question I've been asking for the last hour. I've been asking if this is desirable, the state of affairs that must be.
00:05 xiong I can stand in a bank window, look at the money, and say, clearly, Yes, I want that money; even as I know I cannot take it.
00:05 kaeza xiong, to answer your question, we don't care
00:05 john_minetest Is moderation really "bad"? I once played minecraft on a heavily moderated server. It was AWESOME! No griefers, admins that cared for you and listened to your problems. Perfect.
00:05 xiong Well, this is why I said, I'd like to talk about this with people who want to talk about it.
00:06 Jordach john_minetest, same ere
00:06 Jordach i visited a known cracked server, admins and players were helpful to n00bs
00:06 xiong At this point, the people who do *not* want to discuss the point are the only ones involved; and only for the purpose of shutting off the discussion. This is unproductive. So, have a nice day.
00:07 VanessaE ...
00:07 PandemoniuM whats the point of discussing tho
00:07 PandemoniuM thats like talking politics
00:07 PandemoniuM *discussing this topic
00:07 VanessaE perhaps that's because the people who "do not want to discuss" are the only people whose opinion would matter -- because we are all server operators?
00:07 VanessaE (or moderators)
00:07 VanessaE hm, "matter" is the wrong word.
00:07 VanessaE you get my point.
00:08 xiong No, I don't.
00:08 PandemoniuM PipeWorks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
00:08 VanessaE s/matter/contribute/
00:08 VanessaE only a server operator, moderator, admin, or a long-time heavily-involved player would be able to contribute to this discussion, and so far everyone involved here is one of those four.
00:08 Jordach xiong, actually own your own iron, then run a server
00:08 VanessaE PandemoniuM: what about it? :)
00:09 kaeza xiong, this begs the question: are you looking for people that agree with you, or people with experience?
00:09 PandemoniuM just shouting your praises, that is all
00:09 xiong Anybody who wants to discuss the social aspects of running a server is welcome to do so in #athens. I did suggest that the topic was off-topic here; and after PA urged me to continue, I did so, noting that when others objected, I'd drop it. So, I'm done.
00:09 PandemoniuM :D
00:09 Jordach see how long it lasts without a decent protection sytem
00:09 VanessaE haha
00:12 john_minetest German pirate party watches MLP videos to calm  down after discussions. This is even in their party book under the name "Pony Time" :D
00:12 VanessaE ...
00:12 PandemoniuM ...
00:12 Jordach ...
00:12 kaeza ...
00:12 john_minetest Welcome to germany.
00:12 MinetestBot ...
00:13 PandemoniuM i wonder what the 1940s german would say to that
00:13 proller ...
00:13 john_minetest PandemoniuM: They would just calm down and end the wars?
00:13 PandemoniuM im guessing something like "NEIN NEIN NEIN" while pounding on a podium
00:13 PandemoniuM wat?
00:14 john_minetest http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHBF1AF9bI0
00:14 john_minetest That one!
00:14 PandemoniuM i wonder what the 1940s german would say to the germans watching Pony Time
00:14 john_minetest PandemoniuM: This is what they would say: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHBF1AF9bI0
00:14 PandemoniuM omg man
00:14 PandemoniuM that is literally what i was saying
00:15 PandemoniuM http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dC_X_1pFaI8
00:15 PandemoniuM thats the nein nein nein i was quoting, that is awesome :D :D
00:18 PandemoniuM welp. thanks for the lulz and somewhat mind numbing circular conversations about theoretical server styles
00:19 PandemoniuM :]
00:19 VanessaE haha
00:19 PandemoniuM laters~
00:21 john_minetest lol
00:21 john_minetest It is so hilarious when you watch those videos and understand every word while reading some english subtitles.
00:22 harrison http://alternativeright.com/blog/2013/8/30/tr​ansitioning-from-modernity-a-review-of-alexan​der-dugins-4th-political-theory-part-2-of-2
00:22 harrison dugin is so intense
00:23 harrison Therefore, Postmodernity may not just be the death of Liberalism, it also has a more important significance, which is the rebirth of the Radical Subject and the age of the Kairos (the Supreme moment). It is the rebirth of God from the corpse of pure materialism.
00:25 john_minetest Everybody treats bronies as if they were strange people doing psychological strange things. Per definition they are just male fans of a TV series for small children. It is the same like being fan of model trains or mickey mouse or any random anime out there.
00:25 john_minetest *yawn* ... wow, 1:26. Gtg, cya.
00:32 Miner_48er joined #minetest
00:37 werwerwer joined #minetest
00:40 Jordach a little further http://i.imgur.com/Y6NK697.jpg
00:45 Pilcrow I wish I had a waffle
00:48 VanessaE I can't decide between waffles or pancakes :P
00:48 VanessaE jordach: very nice
00:49 Pilcrow he's not online right now
00:49 Pilcrow well, on irc anyway...
00:51 Pilcrow VanessaE: today I figured out how to make a pull request in github!  :)
00:54 us|0gb Is that ... Minetest with shadows? Is one of Jordach's render projects or is that a new feature?
00:56 Pilcrow He didn't really say. Just said it was minetest with hardware lighting. It'd be amazing if something like that actually made it into the engine though, wouldn't it?  :)
00:57 VanessaE it's one of his render projects
01:00 Pilcrow I need to go find something to eat...
01:05 VanessaE I just had two chimichangas and some halva :)
01:11 us|0gb That would be amazing. THat said, I'd have to disable it as I do all the other graphical features just to get the game to render half-way playably ... I need a new machine.
01:12 us|0gb I just tried SuperTux. That's even slower.
01:19 Pilcrow lol. I've got an ok video card I guess, but system-cripling heat issues. I need to find my arctic silver...
01:20 khor joined #minetest
01:23 Pilcrow my laptop is idling at around 170 degrees Fahrenheit (~76 Celcius)
01:24 VanessaE eek
01:24 VanessaE that's way too hot
01:27 Pilcrow I know. this model should idle around 120 F (~50 C)
01:27 Pilcrow but it's an HP. I've always had trouble with HP laptops...
01:28 Pilcrow I should've gotten a Toshiba.
01:39 kaeza https://forum.minetest.net/vie​wtopic.php?pid=121980#p121980
01:40 us|0gb My Toshiba has a horrid graphics card.
01:40 * us|0gb should have gotten an HP ...
01:41 us|0gb Pilcrow: Want to trade?
01:43 Pilcrow lol, no thanks us|0gb
01:43 us|0gb Meh. It was worth a try.
01:45 us|0gb I'm not even sure how an HP would work out for me anyway. I haven't looked into it.
01:45 Pilcrow this has a radeon hd 4250. not a GOOD video card by any means, but definitely not bad either. I got this laptop because it was selling for 250 in almost-new condition...
01:46 Pilcrow *250 US Dollars
01:46 * us|0gb searches
01:48 Pilcrow that's appx. 150 pounds or 180 euros
01:48 us|0gb Pilcrow: Ah, it seems you're in the same boat as me.
01:48 Pilcrow but I have heat issues, so I guess you're better off.  :P
01:48 us|0gb I'm on an AMD/ATI card (radeon).
01:49 us|0gb Yeah, I usually don't have heat issues, though it has happened in the past on this machine.
01:50 us|0gb I wonder if those $300 USD laptops I saw in the store would work out for me .... or if I can even spare the funds for that.
01:50 Pilcrow then again, mine is good enough to play supertux, supertuxcart, and even MegaGlest at full speed. doing so right now would probably melt the poor thing, however...
01:50 us|0gb Pilcrow: What system?
01:52 Pilcrow HP Pavilion g6-1a50us. it's got a 2.3Ghz dual core, 4Gb RAM, and a radeon 4250
01:52 us|0gb Sorry, I meant operating system. My bad for the lack of clarity.
01:52 Pilcrow that's a 512Mb video card, I think. might only be 256 though.
01:52 Pilcrow oh
01:53 Pilcrow Chakra linux.
01:53 Pilcrow (a fork of arch)
01:53 us|0gb So you probably have the firmware that I lack. That's probably why you have decent render speeds.
01:55 us|0gb So if we trade, you lose the heat issues while keeping your decent graphics speed while I gain heat issues and keep my poor graphics speed. No thank you.
01:55 Pilcrow actually, this is all with the free linux driver. ati broke driver compatability with the 4000 series video cards way back in 2011 and hasn't fixed it...
01:55 us|0gb Oh, my bad.
01:56 us|0gb Wait .... the free GNU/Linux driver depends on the non-free firmware in the kernel.
01:56 us|0gb So if you have the free driver, you probably still have the nonfree firmware backing it up.
01:57 * us|0gb searches for Chakra
01:57 Pilcrow ah. possibly. I don't concern myself with those things much. I just know catalyst/fglrx cannot be installed on this system no matter which distro I run, unless I can get the one from 2011 working...
01:59 Pilcrow well, I suppose it could be installed... but I'd have a black screen, so it'd be pointless  xD
02:00 us|0gb Yeah, for sure. Non-graphical systems are no fun.
02:01 Pilcrow lol, they can still be fun. nethack, anyone?  :P
02:04 us|0gb I've never played that. I haven't gotten into non-graphical games. (Yet?)
02:04 us|0gb Maybe I'll have to try it, with my graphics doing so poorly. I could run it on tty1.
02:06 us|0gb Maybe I could build some text-based games as well when I get time. Such as a 2D text-based Minetest clone.
02:07 us|0gb I think that would be quite amusing, especially if I could get multiplayer games running.
02:07 us|0gb It would be even mor amusing (or frustrating) if I wrote it in sh.
02:07 us|0gb *more
02:07 Pilcrow O.O
02:08 us|0gb Yeah, you're right. Trying to write it in sh is just asking for agony.
02:09 us|0gb I'm not sure sh is very optimized for speed, either. Python might be better.
02:10 Pilcrow but yeah, nethack is awesome. it's text-based but it's not a 'text adventure' game. it's a roguelike. a dungeon crawler. sort of akin to Diablo, but your character is an @ in rooms made of slashes and dashes, and you fight letters...  :P
02:10 us|0gb Python would give better cross-platform compatibility as well.
02:10 us|0gb I've never played Diablo.
02:11 Pilcrow hmm. have you played zelda?
02:11 us|0gb I have. I used to love Zelda.
02:11 us|0gb A Link to the Past was once my favorite game.
02:11 kaeza ^
02:11 pehjota joined #minetest
02:12 Pilcrow it plays like a game of zelda, but in a single dungeon 100 floors tall, and the enemies only move when you do.
02:12 us|0gb There still is a good one. I wonder how Zelda: Mystery of Solaris would run for me ....
02:12 kahrl http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S​pecial:WhatLinksHere/the_past
02:13 kaeza lol kahrl
02:13 Pilcrow but if you die, you die for good and must restart from the beginning...  ;)
02:13 us|0gb No time-sensitivity ... That sounds nice. You have time to think strategically.
02:15 us|0gb It looks like Wikipedia has no links to "the past". A shame.
02:15 Pilcrow yes. and there is a save and quit, but upon loading, your save file is deleted again. in this way, you can continue from where you left off, but can't restore an earlier save if you die
02:15 us|0gb That's just silly. Do they not think someone knows how to copy files before they are deleted?
02:16 kaeza it's a dotfile; nobody can see it
02:16 us|0gb I see all my dot files.
02:17 Pilcrow lol I agree, but the concept of no previous saves is a good one I think. when you die, you die. if you cheat death, you are a cheater. simple as that.  :P
02:17 Tripwire joined #minetest
02:17 * kaeza 's attempt at joking failed
02:17 * kaeza flies away
02:18 Pilcrow o.o kaeza can fly? I thought I was the only crow...  xD
02:18 kaeza /grant kaeza fly
02:18 * kaeza presses K
02:18 Pilcrow lol
02:19 * us|0gb continues on, acting as the strait man to the joke: http://www.tiikoni.com/tis/view/?id=39e5f0b
02:20 us|0gb It's silly of me to be the strait man though. Who am I kidding? I'm not strait.
02:20 Pilcrow anyways, nethack can be infuriating, but it's a lot of fun. I still revisit it time and time again. I never beat more than about 10% of it though...
02:21 Pilcrow us|0gb: hmm, then are you crooked?
02:21 us|0gb Crooked sounds like someone who is corrupt. I'm just not heterosexual.
02:22 us|0gb I guess that's a corruption in a way though.
02:22 us|0gb Still, sounds politically or ethically corrupt though.
02:23 Pilcrow us|0gb: it was a joke. I guess I'm bad at those too. just like kaeza!  ;P
02:24 us|0gb It's this text-based medium. It's too hard to transmit jokes without tone of voice and/or facial expressions.
02:24 * us|0gb adds subtitles, which don't help at all
02:25 Pilcrow I suppose you're right. that's the reason for emoticons, but they can only say so much...
02:25 us|0gb And some of us (me in particular) are too lazy to use them.
02:26 Pilcrow heh. I use them too much.
02:26 us|0gb I should make a file of them that I can pull up whenever needed, so I don't have to work at it to use them.
02:27 Pilcrow well, even text smileys (smilies?) work to some extent...
02:27 us|0gb Oh, what? I don't have my character map? I wonder what package that is a part of ....
02:28 Pilcrow what do you mean?
02:28 Pilcrow as in, your keyboard isn't mapped right?
02:29 us|0gb My distribution doesn't have an Xfce version, so I started with the headless install and added Xfce. As a result, there are very few default applications, and I must install everything myself.
02:29 us|0gb Pilcrow: No, as in an application that I can pull up to find Unicode characters, such as emoticons.
02:30 Pilcrow oh, that's what you meant.
02:32 Pilcrow personally, I used to hate kde 4, but now it's all I use. gnome 3 is a horrible mess, and xfce... well, I don't care for it. hard to customize the way I like it. LXDE is much better for that, but needs to be fleshed out and polished before I'll consider using it on a regular basis...
02:33 us|0gb LXDE definitely needs polish. GNOME is ... just not my style. Every time I try to give KDE a chance, all the graphical effects get in the way.
02:34 us|0gb KDE without graphical effects would probably be awesome though.
02:34 Pilcrow yeah, I've got most of those graphical effects turned off. you can do that.
02:34 kahrl I don't think Xfce has a character map
02:35 us|0gb You can, if you can stay on the desktop long enough to find all the individual settings to disable them.
02:35 kahrl maybe you can install something like gucharmap
02:35 Sokomine how do you mark areas for protection, and which methods of showing you areas have you observed in new players?
02:36 us|0gb kahrl: No, it doesn't by default. It also doesn't have a web browser though. Thanks for the package name! I was looking for that.
02:36 Sokomine (ok, wrong question here...people would most likely use worldedit or direct coordinates. but i'm looking for a way new/inexperienced players without a technical background can use to show what they want)
02:36 VanessaE kahrl: <offtopic> I love httpfetch, btw. :D  </offtopic>
02:37 kahrl awesome. :D
02:37 Sokomine most of what i observe on recrabs server is that 4 wool blocks are placed at the borders and then showed to the moderator
02:37 Sokomine btw, any progress on the player-connects-to-server-and-causes-lag problem?
02:37 kahrl I'm mostly glad that it works and I didn't break everyone's game by merging it ;)
02:37 VanessaE Sokomine: none so far, sadly.
02:38 VanessaE kahrl: break it?  more like made it into a fucking rocket :)
02:38 Pilcrow us|0gb: well, all the graphical effects are on one page in the control panel, so it's not that hard. the main problem I have with KDE is the amount of RAM it needs. you don't even want to TRY using it on a system with less than 768Mb, and even then it will be slow...
02:39 VanessaE I speed-tested earlier, ~26MB worth of cache downloaded in around 20 seconds or so.
02:39 Sokomine pilcrow: icewm is great and does not require many ressources
02:39 Sokomine vanessae: that's faster than what my connection could handle
02:39 Pilcrow if a system has less than a gig of ram, I use lxde or icewm. or jwm, if I feel like playing with a puppy~  ;)
02:40 VanessaE (the server has 35MB worth of media but I guess not all of it is actually sent to clients)
02:40 kaeza puppy ♥
02:41 hmmmm http://i.imgur.com/SDVhxaT.jpg
02:41 hmmmm wow
02:41 hmmmm mocha doge
02:41 hmmmm such coffee
02:41 VanessaE neat
02:41 us|0gb Hmm. I'll try KDE again and find that page, after I figure out how to forbid Aptitude from installing particular packages. There's a package that I fear the KDE version may depend on that, once installed, won't uninstall properly. I am NOT installing that thing again.
02:42 Pilcrow as far as the small distros, I prefer slitaz to puppy. but it updates very slowly...
02:43 Pilcrow us|0gb: what package is that?
02:43 us|0gb Pilcrow: A busted one. Hold on, I have the name in my notes somewhere ....
02:44 Pilcrow lol, must be a lot of notes?
02:45 us|0gb Pilcrow: Maybe it's not in my notes directly .... I think it's "trisquel-desktop-common-data". Only one page of notes.
02:46 us|0gb Then again, it's an XHTML page, not a PDF page, so it can be any size. "One page" is no indication of size.
02:47 VanessaE I/O error reading /dev/brain:  device not ready
02:47 VanessaE Segmentation fault (core dumped)
02:48 us|0gb What? I hope you have a backup brain to keep your heart and lungs working until the main one is ready.
02:48 Pilcrow us|0gb: heh, ok. I've had no experience with that package. I thought maybe I'd know of it and could help. I don't presume to know more than you (probably less, actually), but two heads are better than one, after all~
02:49 us|0gb I think that package is a meta package, if I recall. But something it depends on causes me grief, and I can't remove it.
02:50 Pilcrow hmm. no way to blacklist it? I've not used aptitude in years...
02:50 us|0gb Specifically, it grabs and stores all my notifications.
02:51 us|0gb I think there is a way to blacklist it, I just don't know what that way is yet. Once I find out, I can try "triskel", the KDE Trisquel desktop.
02:51 Pilcrow us|0gb: will this help? http://www.cyberciti.biz/faq/debian-ubuntu-linux-​apt-get-blacklisting-packages-using-hold-option/
02:53 Hirato joined #minetest
02:54 us|0gb No, it appears that is used to prevent packages from being upgraded once they are already installed.
02:55 Pilcrow you could create a dummy package with the same name as the one you don't want installed. I've done this before...
02:56 us|0gb It looks like this might be what I need: http://askubuntu.com/questions/75895/how-to​-forbid-a-specific-package-to-be-installed
02:56 us|0gb I still need to research what that solution means though before I put it in practice.
02:59 us|0gb (If you just said something, I missed it. I lost connection for a minute.)
03:00 Pilcrow ah. yes, it looks like that will work. it's good to do research first though. personally, I've created dummy packages in order to get things installed without dependancies it thinks it needs but will run without. this was especially useful in slax, where packages often specified the wrong dependancies and ended up pulling in entire desktop environments.
03:01 us|0gb The problem with doing that though is that the depending packages will be able to install without the functionality provided by the depended on packages.
03:02 us|0gb I just need Aptitude to not let me accidentally install this thing.
03:03 us|0gb (So if one install fails, I try manually for a lesser install.)
03:04 Pilcrow lol that's true. it can definitely cause problems that way, but sometimes it's useful. in this case, you are right about just blocking it altogether though.
03:09 Hirato what is he blocking? is it pulseaudio?
03:09 us|0gb Hirato: No, "trisquel-desktop-common-data".
03:09 us|0gb It's a broken meta package, I think.
03:10 Hirato lol, arch only has a trisquel-themes package
03:11 Pilcrow lol pulseaudio. it's good when it works. which isn't often. but it works in my system! mostly... I had to fuss with alsa to get my mic sensitivity up. I was pretty much inaudible...
03:12 us|0gb I need PulseAudio for AQEMU, but I use Alsa for everything else.
03:12 Hirato only problems I've had were with my microphone
03:12 Hirato and I've yet to see a working pulse :p
03:13 Hirato the first time it ever gave me sound, was this https://dl.dropboxuserconte​nt.com/u/23891252/pulse.ogg :P
03:14 Pilcrow Hirato: why in the world do you have that saved?  xD
03:14 Hirato so I can show people what a pile of crap it is :P
03:14 Hirato that was one of the best runs too, it was mostly silent adn just hissing
03:17 Pilcrow lol. well pulse is installed in Chakra linux by default, and actually worked when I got it. I shudder to think what might happen if I remove my package hold on it though; an update would probably break it...  ;)
03:21 topcyde joined #minetest
03:21 Pilcrow quite an off-topic conversation for a channel called #minetest isn't it?  :P
03:22 Hirato hardly, pulse breaks openAL too :3c
03:23 Exio4 us|0gb: can't you use jackd?
03:26 Pilcrow I've never used jackd. tried once, but couldn't get it installed. that was a long time ago, though...
03:26 us|0gb Exio4: I assume jackd is an alternative to PulseAudio? AQEMU throws PulseAudio errors at me if I don't have PulseAudio installed. There may be some way around that though.
03:33 us|0gb Okay, I did something stupid. I tried installing that package again, and it's lost in limbo as usual: it's both installed and not installed.
03:34 us|0gb Because it's not installed, I can't remove it, but because it is installed, I can't fully remove anything that depends on it .... unless .... maybe I can now.
03:35 Pilcrow huh. Schrödinger's package? now that just sounds wrong...
03:35 us|0gb Because it was explicitly installed, Aptitude won't fail to autoremove it because it won't even try.
03:35 us|0gb Pilcrow: Basically, yeah.
03:36 NakedFury joined #minetest
03:37 Pilcrow well, I think a dummy package like I talked about earlier might actually do the trick here. give it a higher version number, 'update' to it, then uninstall it...
03:38 us|0gb That might work. I'll have to figure out how to build packages when I have time.
03:41 us|0gb Oh, drats. trisquel-desktop-common-data kills the package manager.
03:41 us|0gb I can't do anything, even with a dummy package.
03:46 Pilcrow dpkg won't work either?
03:52 us|0gb I don't know how to use dpkg, but I can try it.
03:53 us|0gb I got Aptitude to do something now. I'm not sure if it's unjamming it though.
03:54 Pilcrow you using trisquel 6?
03:54 us|0gb I am.
03:55 Pilcrow and which version of trisquel-desktop-common-data is this?
03:55 Pilcrow probably 6.0-6, correct?
03:56 us|0gb Yeah, that's correct.
03:57 Pilcrow what does "dpkg -r trisquel-desktop-common-data" (without quotes) tell you?
03:58 us|0gb Aptitude has a lock on the package file right now. I can try that, but it's likely to tell me that there is a lock on the package list.
03:58 Pilcrow ah
03:59 us|0gb dpkg: error: dpkg status database is locked by another process
04:00 Pilcrow yeah... is aptitude frozen?
04:00 us|0gb No, Aptitude is downloading a bunch of stuff that I probably don't want.
04:01 Pilcrow ok... are you going to stop it then? or just let it install that stuff?
04:02 us|0gb I'm hoping that when it finishes, the package will be fixed and I can remove it, autoremoving all the junk it's installing now.
04:03 Pilcrow ok then. I'm going off memory here. it's been at least 2 years since I've run a .deb system...
04:04 us|0gb Ha ha, do worries. Thanks for the help!
04:05 Pilcrow lol. hope I'm actually helping...  :P
04:06 us|0gb I killed the proccess that was jamming my network, but Aptitude seems to have slowed down.
04:06 us|0gb Great ... it says it will be done in another five ans a half hours.
04:07 Pilcrow wonderful.  -_-
04:07 us|0gb (It previously said ten minutes.)
04:07 us|0gb Okay, three minutes now. Do I have the Windows time estimator installed? I hope not.
04:08 Pilcrow how odd. what was the name of the process you killed?
04:09 us|0gb AQEMU.
04:09 us|0gb It was running a major download.
04:09 us|0gb (AQEMU is a hypervisor.)
04:09 Pilcrow oh. lol, ok. odd.
04:10 Pilcrow I thought AQEMU was a frontend for QEMU, a virtual machine program similar to virtualbox...?
04:10 us|0gb Great .... Now Postfix wants to be configured. And if I choose poorly, it might haunt me later if I decide to actually use it.
04:11 us|0gb Pilcrow: Yeah, my bad. That's what AQEMU is, I just overly simplified it.
04:12 Pilcrow oh fun. good luck with that. I've never configured postfix before, so I've no idea what you're into now...  :s
04:13 thexyz_ joined #minetest
04:14 Ditti joined #minetest
04:15 us|0gb I do wish these packages were alphabetized. I keep seeing packages near the end of the alphabet and thinking "Yay, almost done!". But then it jumps to some early letter.
04:17 Pilcrow it would be nice, wouldn't it...
04:19 Tiktalik joined #minetest
04:21 us|0gb NoooOOOOoooo!!! Now I have a bunch of junk and the package is STILL broken. Trying "sudo dpkg -r trisquel-desktop-common-data" ...
04:22 us|0gb Pilcrow:  Package is in a very bad inconsistent state - you should reinstall it before attempting a removal.
04:26 Pilcrow there should be a way to force-remove a package. I can't quite remember how. maybe try "sudo dpkg -rf trisquel-desktop-common-data" or "sudo dpkg -r trisquel-desktop-common-data --force"
04:28 dvere joined #minetest
04:34 Sokomine anyone good at doing formspecs?
04:35 us|0gb I've worked with them in the past. Need help with some?
04:37 Pilcrow I've recently been working with them as well. not the greatest, but I was able to make this: http://i.imgur.com/BR5gP1Y.png
04:38 Pilcrow I'll be releasing that as soon as I finish a default-only market list. the current one is basically dependant on all the mods I use...
04:38 Sokomine it's always a bit annoying to get everything where desired
04:39 Sokomine you sell complete houses?
04:40 us|0gb Yeah, I know what you mean.
04:40 Pilcrow lol. the houses are from the instacabin mod, only heavily modified...
04:41 Sokomine ah, hm. most of what i need is text anyway. that will make it a bit easier
04:41 Pilcrow in fact, the whole top row of that is filled with insta-buildings...
04:41 Sokomine heavily modified? i.e. made better? in that case, it sounds good
04:42 us|0gb --force doesn't seem to have an option to force removal.
04:44 Pilcrow Sokomine: eh, not better really. just more buildings, most of my own design. interesting tier system though; there's a shack item that can be crafted into a small tower, small house, or small warehouse. each of those can be upgraded to large, and then overkill.
04:46 Sokomine ah. upgrading of buildings sounds like a nice idea. i do that to a very limited degree with the houses of my villages/random_buildings mod (though i doubt anyone knows how to do/use it - it's not finished yet)
04:47 Pilcrow for example, if I put a shack in the middle of the crafting grid and surround it in cobble, it becomes a small tower. do it again and it's a large tower. upgrade the large tower with concrete to a 5-floor, one-room-per-floor apartment...
04:49 Pilcrow but right now it, too, is dependant on many of the other mods I have installed, including a few others I haven't released (yet?)...
04:49 Sokomine ah. seems a bit simple
04:49 Sokomine too easy crafting for more complex buildings
04:52 Pilcrow yes, but the shack itself cannot be crafted. it must be given by a user with the 'give' privilege, or bought in the mesebay mod I'm working on (for high prices).
04:53 Pilcrow or the trader hut from sapier's mob framework, but it must be manually added...
04:57 Pilcrow long story short, I don't know if anyone else would want my modified instacabin mod. it's just for personal use mostly. the mesebay mod will definitely get released when I complete the list, though.
04:58 Pilcrow anyways, I'm off to bed. it's 11pm here and I work at 7:30am tomorrow. talk to you guys later~
04:59 MrBeNNy joined #minetest
05:05 Pilcrow us|0gb: I'm sorry, I didn't notice your last message. I guess I don't really know how to force-remove a deb package any more...
05:09 us|0gb No worries.
05:09 us|0gb I'll figure this out. If I fail, I can reinstall the system.
05:10 Pilcrow ah, dpkg --purge might do the trick. anyway, I need to go sleep. night, all~
05:10 us|0gb Good night!
05:15 Yrol_D joined #minetest
05:57 kaeza joined #minetest
05:57 ibloat joined #minetest
06:05 OldCoder joined #minetest
06:21 joepie91 joined #minetest
06:23 ungali joined #minetest
06:40 eeew joined #minetest
06:47 arsdragonfly1 joined #minetest
06:48 arsdragonfly joined #minetest
06:55 MinetestBot GIT: kwolekr commited to minetest/minetest: Add map feature generation notify Lua API c3708b456e 2013-12-13T22:52:24-08:00 http://git.io/RExGCg
07:00 MinetestBot GIT: kwolekr commited to minetest/minetest: Handle Lua errors in on_generate callbacks instead of throwing SIGABRT 15c316765d 2013-12-13T22:59:16-08:00 http://git.io/YDWTDQ
07:08 Hirato us|0gb: if only dependency chains worked like that :P
07:13 Vargos joined #minetest
07:22 sfan5 !tell Jordach works perfectly in 2.66a http://i.imgur.com/U9KItnX.png
07:22 MinetestBot sfan5: I'll pass that on when Jordach is around
07:22 sfan5 <3 MinetestBot
07:22 MinetestBot <3 sfan5
07:24 * Hirato hugs MinetestBot
07:34 Hirato just wondering, why do you guys link against GLES anyway?
07:34 khor joined #minetest
07:37 * joepie91 looks at MinetestBot and wonders if it's a phenny
07:38 Hirato I think MinetestBot might be a bot
07:39 VanessaE hi
07:39 Hirato howdy
07:40 us`0gb joined #minetest
07:45 Issa2013 joined #minetest
07:52 MinetestBot joepie91: I'm a phenny
07:53 VanessaE ok Jordach, or Pilzadam...
07:53 VanessaE whoever it is that's logged into the bot :P
07:53 VanessaE or sfan5 :P
07:53 sfan5 hm?
07:53 VanessaE GLES?
07:53 * VanessaE looks back a bit
07:53 Hirato OpenGL ES
07:53 sfan5 I just answered his/her question
07:54 Hirato it breaks minetest when building with nvidia drivers
07:54 VanessaE Hirato: others seem to have no issue using MT with nvidia?
07:54 VanessaE calinou would scoff at your report :)
07:54 joepie91 Hirato; phenny is a particular type of bot :)
07:55 Hirato VanessaE: rubbish https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=7828
07:55 * joepie91 likes phenny
07:55 sfan5 VanessaE: it just happens if your have OpenGLES libs installed
07:55 VanessaE hm
07:56 Hirato besides, I'd expect a gles enabled irrlicht to pull in the depend itself, the current one puleld in libGL :P
07:56 Hirato **pulls
07:56 VanessaE what do you run that depends on OpenGL ES?
07:56 Hirato nothing I think, nvidia's support of it is incomplete at best
07:57 Hirato even then, why would I when you've got superior regular OpenGL :P
07:57 VanessaE well if nothing depends on it, then..um..remove it? :)
07:57 VanessaE it's still a bug of course
07:58 VanessaE but easily worked around if you're a bit lucky
07:59 Hirato easier to comment out the library search in src/CMakeLists
08:00 Hirato I'm just wondering why its even there, as irrlicht isn't GLES enabled
08:00 Hirato and if it was, it would likely pull in libgles, like it goes with libgl at present
08:23 ibloat joined #minetest
08:37 ibloat joined #minetest
08:55 arsdragonfly1 joined #minetest
08:57 ibloat joined #minetest
09:12 Tux[Qyou] joined #minetest
09:14 ibloat joined #minetest
09:20 ibloat joined #minetest
09:23 thexyz_ VanessaE: can you share your game? (vanessae_game, I think)
09:23 VanessaE sure, it's at http://minetest.digitalaudiocon​cepts.com/VanessaE_Game.tar.bz2
09:24 VanessaE should be current
09:24 VanessaE I've never actually used it on a third-party system, so please let me know if any mods need to be pre-configured/tweaked for general use
09:25 VanessaE (I use that ^^^^ plus a dozen or so extras + changes spcific to the creative and survival servers_
09:25 VanessaE )
09:26 thexyz I only want to steal media from it to test the CDN
09:26 VanessaE feel free
09:26 VanessaE but wait
09:26 VanessaE http://minetest.digitalaudioconce​pts.com/creative-survival-media/
09:26 VanessaE slurp that instead
09:27 VanessaE :)
09:27 VanessaE it'll be easier :)
09:27 thexyz no, it's easier the first way
09:27 VanessaE ok
09:29 thexyz eh, still, something's missing
09:29 thexyz Found 3333 files, not found 745 files.
09:30 thexyz like unifiedbricks_multicolor_medium_green.png
09:32 VanessaE ?
09:33 thexyz your .tar.bz2 is missing this
09:33 thexyz although it seems to be in use
09:33 VanessaE it is?
09:33 VanessaE odd, it's in the media directory
09:34 VanessaE http://minetest.digitalaudioconcepts​.com/creative-survival-media/unified​bricks_multicolor_medium_green.png
09:34 thexyz yes, but not in the archive
09:34 VanessaE oh
09:34 VanessaE right
09:34 VanessaE unifiedbricks is not in vanessae_game
09:35 VanessaE it's among the worldmods in Survival and Creative
09:35 VanessaE bobblocks  building_blocks  glooptest  irc_commands  prefab    spawn
09:35 VanessaE bucket     camo_modpack     irc        no_guests     pyramids  unifiedbricks
09:35 VanessaE need those?
09:36 VanessaE http://minetest.digitalaudioc​oncepts.com/worldmods.tar.bz2
09:36 VanessaE there they are anyway :P
09:37 VanessaE wait.
09:37 VanessaE can't do that
09:37 VanessaE sensitive data in there :P
09:38 VanessaE there, now you can grab it, sans the sensitive stuff.
09:41 thexyz better now
09:42 VanessaE I should probably merge those into VE_Game at some point, or perhaps the Creative server's versions.
09:43 VanessaE (they've been mildly tweaked to remove damaging elements here and there, or to remove obscure dependencies that people were abusing, etc)
10:01 Calinou joined #minetest
10:08 arsdragonfly_ joined #minetest
10:17 Leoneof joined #minetest
10:18 Columbus240 joined #minetest
10:20 sapier joined #minetest
10:24 JackGruff joined #minetest
10:33 Peacock joined #minetest
10:45 us^0gb joined #minetest
11:01 arsdragonfly1 should a pair of brackets {} displayed in the output when a server is successfully announced?
11:01 VanessaE I think you out a word there
11:02 VanessaE (and I don't know either way(
11:03 arsdragonfly1 I remember it used to look like this : 18:59:52: ACTION[ServerThread]: announcing to servers.minetest.net
11:03 arsdragonfly1 then {}
11:03 VanessaE oh, eh, no clue
11:05 VanessaE http://hardware.slashdot.org/story/1​3/12/14/0110203/surge-in-litecoin-mi​ning-leads-to-graphics-card-shortage
11:05 VanessaE HA!
11:05 VanessaE "graphics card shortage"
11:05 Peacock and holding bitcoins leads to thefts/heists lol
11:05 VanessaE > first world problem
11:07 Peacock course all it would take for bitcoin to crash in value is for one of the early adopters to cash out their big stash of coins
11:10 Peacock ps, new slashdot layout = fuck ugly
11:11 VanessaE am I the only one who doesn't see this new "beta" layout everyone else is so up in arms about?
11:11 Calinou VanessaE, graphics cards for mining is not profitable anymore
11:11 Calinou today people use ASICs
11:11 VanessaE Calinou: even with litecoin>
11:11 VanessaE ?
11:11 Calinou in both cases, it is quite sad for power usage
11:11 VanessaE oh, too bad
11:11 Calinou for litecoin it's still a bit profitable I think
11:11 VanessaE wish I hadn't missed the boat on that one.
11:11 Peacock really? all i can get is the beta, putting www instead of beta. brings me back to beta :(
11:11 Calinou we have people using insane amounts of electricity for some kind of money...
11:12 Peacock some kind of money = good for ransomware, illegal pron and drugs
11:12 Hirato grand theft bit
11:12 Columbus240 joined #minetest
11:13 SylvieLorxu joined #minetest
11:13 Columbus240 Hi. I've got a problem compiling minetest
11:13 Columbus240 I'm using windows amd CMake says:
11:13 Columbus240 CMake Error at src/CMakeLists.txt:3 (add_subdirectory):   add_subdirectory given source "lua_api" which is not an existing directory.
11:13 Peacock tho the govt is taking btc serious enough, they told the guy who makes physical coins to stop or register with some financial thingy
11:14 Calinou do you really need to compile it, Columbus240?
11:14 Calinou if you don't plan on editing the source code, get a windows build
11:14 Columbus240 Not really compiling, generating the project files for Visual Studio
11:14 Columbus240 I want to edit the source code
11:14 john_minetest joined #minetest
11:14 john_minetest Hello everypony
11:15 Peacock pony is unavailable
11:15 john_minetest find / | grep pony
11:15 Peacock pony found, in the backroom with jordach, inappropriate petting may or may not be happening
11:16 john_minetest mv pony IRC/
11:16 Columbus240 How to solve the problem?
11:16 VanessaE hi john
11:17 Calinou hi john_minetest
11:17 Calinou Peacock, which pony?
11:17 Columbus240 Has minetest problems with Irrlicht 1.8?
11:17 Calinou no, it runs fine for me with it
11:17 Peacock john, some cop came by looking for you http://youtu.be/UN_VgVEZD0k
11:18 Hirato don't you need your own lua headers?
11:18 Hirato go for luajit
11:18 Peacock calinou there's more than one?
11:18 Columbus240 What should I do with luajit?
11:18 Calinou Hirato, :o didn't know you were here
11:18 Hirato obviously install it, and make sure the headers are avilable somewhere minetest can find them
11:19 VanessaE oh G*d in heaven -- THAT is what this beta thing it?
11:19 Peacock luajit? add nutmeg, cook for 45 mins at 350c, stirring occasionally
11:19 * VanessaE just took a quick look.  PUKE
11:19 Hirato there's probably a -DLUA_PATH variable you can set too
11:19 Peacock ./ beta sucks balls eh?
11:19 VanessaE I must have opted out in my settings or something
11:19 VanessaE G*d yes, that sucks donkey balls.
11:19 Peacock i could break my scrollwheel trying to get to the end of the comments
11:20 Hirato what beta?
11:20 Peacock slashdot
11:20 Columbus240 Nope. No DLUA_PATH
11:20 VanessaE Hirato: slashdot's site redesign
11:20 Hirato Calinou: joined recently to complain about minetest bring completely broken :P
11:20 Jordach joined #minetest
11:20 Hirato Calinou: turns out it's because the build proces linked openGLES2
11:21 * VanessaE pokes Jordach
11:21 joepie91 joined #minetest
11:21 VanessaE (preemptive strike)
11:21 Jordach WHAT
11:21 Hirato oh right, that slashdot beta they made a post about ages back
11:21 * Jordach could spend a day recreating the area that Jordach lives in at VE-Survival :P
11:21 VanessaE the unthinkable happened today:  celeron55 actually signed onto my Survival server AND PLAYED FOR A WHILE!
11:21 Hirato oh yeah, that was terrible
11:22 VanessaE :)
11:22 Columbus240 Why minetest hasn't got mods like Industrial Craft in minecraft?
11:22 VanessaE Columbus240: because no one has coded them?  though there are pipeworks, technic, and mesecons
11:22 VanessaE the three together come close to that I guess
11:23 VanessaE it's all a matter of desire
11:23 Columbus240 ok
11:23 VanessaE what people want to code
11:23 VanessaE what people are interested in
11:23 Hirato looking at it, they've made it a lot less terrible
11:23 Hirato comments have threads again :o
11:23 Columbus240 What?
11:24 Calinou VanessaE, maybe it was a fake? or did celeron55 tell you on IRC they were the real one? :P
11:24 VanessaE he did.
11:24 john_minetest Jordach: Hey, time to play a bit together on VE S?
11:24 Jordach [11:24:49] <VE-Survival> *** Jordach joined the game
11:25 Jordach already did that before you said it
11:25 sfan5 Jordach: got my message?
11:25 Jordach at
11:25 Jordach wat
11:25 VanessaE besides, his account was established ages ago
11:25 Peacock VE-Survival - Victory in Europe Survival server? sortof like wolfenstein in minetest?
11:25 Jordach sfan5, i don't have said message
11:25 Jordach and MemoServ returns empty
11:26 sfan5 Jordach: '''!tell Jordach works perfectly in 2.66a http://i.imgur.com/U9KItnX.png'''
11:26 sfan5 MinetestBot
11:26 sfan5 it didn't do its job
11:26 sfan5 s/it/she/ s/its/her/
11:27 john_minetest sfan5: Look at this: http://pastebin.sabayon.org/pas​ties/store/15633/0000-0220.ogg
11:27 Peacock actually some sort of ww2 game mode wouldn't be a bad idea, could even make it grayscale
11:27 sfan5 john_minetest: lol
11:28 john_minetest The one arm is a bit buggy. But anyways.
11:28 Columbus240 When are mobs/animals coming?
11:28 Peacock nodes would need like, hp/armor levels and shit, i suppose you could hackily use param2 for that
11:29 Jordach hyper mining time john_minetest
11:29 Jordach -4.3KM and still going down
11:29 Columbus240 whats param2?
11:29 john_minetest sfan5: Hmmm, it would be great to have a video hosting platform for let's plays, tech demos, renders and the like.
11:29 Jordach already done that: http://mg.viewskew.com ;)
11:29 Peacock param2 is facedir shit, though i wonder if you could use for just about anything
11:30 john_minetest gah, minetest crashed
11:30 Peacock feature
11:30 Jordach HAHAHAHAHA
11:32 thexyz yes, you can use param2 for anything
11:33 thexyz param1 and param2 are 8 bit integers. The engine uses them for certain
11:33 thexyz automated functions. If you don't use these functions, you can use them to
11:33 thexyz store arbitrary values.
11:33 Peacock awesome, so full nodes could use em for armor
11:34 Jordach if node.pos.param2 = <x> then node.pos.param2 = node.pos.param2 - 1 (until it breaks.)
11:34 Peacock that would be, 256 hp's, plenty :-)
11:34 thexyz or you can use metadata
11:34 thexyz so why not use metadata?
11:34 Peacock because people constantly bitch about how slow it is, though i dont see it
11:35 thexyz it is?
11:35 Peacock i dont think so, but every time it's brough up im told its bad lol
11:36 john_minetest Jordach: Yeah, mg is nice. But not quite what I am looking for. I want a dedicated open source distributed video (and music) platform with proper licensing. Mediagoblin is good but the design is kinda strange.
11:36 VanessaE that was my same argument for node coloring and colored lights
11:36 john_minetest Jordach: Also: Is it possible to host the media on different servers?
11:36 thexyz colored lights? like the thing Taoki implemented?
11:36 VanessaE one and three bytes in the node's metadata would solve both issues of data transport and savings
11:36 Peacock about putting colors in meta?
11:36 VanessaE but oh G*d no, that's bloated and slow
11:37 VanessaE -s
11:37 thexyz well, you can't have just 3 bytes in node metadata
11:37 Peacock well assuming your light source is a a plain node and not wallmounted/facedir, you could use p2 for that too
11:38 Peacock 256 values is more colors than what most people would be content with
11:38 VanessaE thexyz: well of course not, i realize there is overhead, but you get the same overhead when you make a furnace or a door or something else that needs to track state
11:38 thexyz but now every single node will have it
11:38 VanessaE so it's not like we aren't already doing that sort of thing now
11:38 VanessaE nonono
11:38 thexyz anyway, I have pretty much no idea how lights work now
11:38 VanessaE not "every single node"
11:38 VanessaE only those nodes that need it
11:38 thexyz but I think that we need hardware lighting calculated on client
11:38 VanessaE a light source needs it.  a node that's being lit by it does not.
11:39 Peacock me neither, not since the 6d lighting fix, i cant recognized what i tweaked a few minor versions ago lol
11:39 thexyz VanessaE: so.. light source node now has it; do you mean client should calculate the colored light itself?
11:39 VanessaE I agree.  lighting belongs in the client.  the server needs to know only that there is "some light here at intensity X".  it doesn't need to know the color.
11:39 VanessaE yes, precisely.
11:39 Peacock in any case the others were probably right when they said hardware lighting would make more sense then adding more hacky code to the hacky light code
11:40 Hirato it's even fine for the old fixed-function stuff for people using really old systems :D
11:40 Hirato assuming you can live without shadows
11:40 VanessaE there's no reason for a mod to need to look up the exact color of the light at a given location in the map.
11:40 thexyz indeed, now we should just find someone familiar with shit like this
11:40 VanessaE the intensity can be faked.
11:40 thexyz and I wonder how laggy will it be
11:41 thexyz with, say, 100 torches
11:41 Hirato it depends on the mods, I mostly see use for intensity
11:41 Hirato eg, stealth mods :P
11:41 Peacock well, if torches were stronger, you wouldn't need as many lol
11:41 VanessaE if you don't waste time trying to push 100+(light radius) nodes' worth of light * 3 colors across the pipe, no moreso than it is now.
11:41 Peacock between 0-10 light levels, it barely lights up the place, i'd move the scale to the right
11:42 VanessaE you only need to transfer 100 nodes * the extra bytes that have the additional light source data and let the damn client figure it out
11:42 thexyz VanessaE: I'm talking exactly about client performance
11:42 thexyz I have no idea how this stuff (hardware lighting) works
11:42 splash_ joined #minetest
11:43 Hirato it depends on whether you're doing shadows as well or not :p
11:43 VanessaE thexyz: well it would seem to me that in most cases, the client will fair better at handling lighting than a server would, since clients can be assumed, generally, to be running on better hardware than a server would.
11:43 john_minetest VanessaE: Sounds like X. Send that stuff and let the client figure it out :D
11:43 thexyz Hirato: but what's the point of lighting without shadows!
11:43 Hirato it's not always ideal though, eg, floating islands
11:44 Hirato thexyz: considering the current lighting scheme, you're not going to notice a lack of shadows anyway
11:44 Peacock shadows can be as painful as they are pleasant ingame lol
11:44 Peacock especially when laying down nodes in a non-traditional fashion
11:44 thexyz Hirato: true
11:44 Hirato at least for torches and stuff
11:44 thexyz too bad no one's going to do that
11:44 Peacock i suppose if c55 ever goes ahead with a rewrite, they'll use HW lighting
11:45 VanessaE HW lighting has been considered in other ways, RBA and I have talked about it before too
11:46 thexyz rewrite was a nice joke, i agree
11:46 VanessaE and we've also been discussing things like supplementing the texture extrude code with a shader that can do the same effect
11:46 thexyz I can discuss things too, but someone also has to write the code
11:46 Peacock joke maybe :P but i didn't think it would be a bad idea to have MT2 in parallel dev, other projects have done it
11:47 VanessaE thexyz: of course, but code can't happen effectively without the discussion stage
11:47 Peacock well #minetest is for discussing things, #-dev is for getting shit done :P
11:47 VanessaE Peacock: a rewrite of MT would be nice but I don't think we have the resources for that
11:47 thexyz sometimes discussion only makes things worse
11:47 thexyz like in #-dev
11:47 VanessaE it would take 5 times the manpower that we have now I think
11:47 thexyz discussion, discussion and discussion
11:48 VanessaE yeah
11:48 Peacock well i steer clear of dev, i do read the logs from time to time lol
11:48 VanessaE ironically, c55 would agree
11:49 kaeza joined #minetest
11:49 Peacock well maybe you need -design and -dev, to seperate discussion of how to code shit and discussion of actually coding shit lol
11:50 thexyz that's not the main minetest problem though
11:50 VanessaE the main problem is people ARE coding shit
11:50 VanessaE but much of it isn't being merged in a timely manner
11:50 Peacock lol 2 years ago people complained no one was coding shit
11:50 Jordach 1) Ask people what people want, 2) Code what people want, 3) ??? 4) Profit
11:51 thexyz VanessaE: sadly I don't see this anymore
11:51 VanessaE Jordach: and as is always the eternal problem - what to do about step 3.
11:51 VanessaE thexyz: how do you mean?
11:51 thexyz those people who were coding shit have already left, I guess
11:51 VanessaE oh
11:51 VanessaE well I think there will be more people coming along
11:51 Peacock and a few months ago people said things would pick up when 0.4.8 came out
11:51 thexyz well, you said "people ARE coding shit"; any examples of it?
11:51 Peacock rba's still around
11:51 VanessaE thexyz: I figured the pull requests kinda spoke to that?
11:52 Peacock c55, kahrl
11:52 thexyz ah, right
11:52 Peacock (hope im not pinging everyone)
11:52 VanessaE most recent is only 2 days olf
11:52 VanessaE old*
11:52 Hirato everyone obviously wants VanessaE's mods upstreamed into minetest_game ;)
11:52 thexyz it's not something big
11:52 VanessaE Hirato: hah!
11:52 thexyz like kahrl's formspec table or http fetch
11:52 Peacock not everyone has vanessa's setup though (hardware) :P
11:52 Jordach HANG ON A FUCKING SECOND.
11:53 thexyz and then 4 days, 6 days, 10, 11, ~15, two months..
11:53 VanessaE I have no fucking seconds left.  I think I have one or two fucking minutes though
11:53 Jordach if MY low end hardware can get 40fps with MINETEST and BLENDER (both rendering at the same time), then VE_Game shouldn't have problems
11:53 thexyz and people who write Lua in most cases can't write Lua sadly
11:53 Peacock lol
11:53 Peacock true
11:53 VanessaE thexyz: you mean like me? :P
11:54 VanessaE (face it, my Lua skills suck.(
11:54 VanessaE )
11:54 thexyz pretty much everyone, sadly
11:54 Peacock i guess what's getting harder with the engine is tacking on more shit to a base that wasn't designed from the ground up for such features?
11:54 Jordach bull
11:54 Hirato it kind of is a language for people who primarily can't code, haha
11:54 Jordach i was talking to thexyz :P
11:54 Peacock lua reminds me of php
11:55 thexyz why?
11:55 Jordach thexyz, https://gist.github.com/Jo​rdach/e7c7d070fc009a179686
11:55 Peacock and theres no shortage of bad php code too
11:55 Jordach i made a tiny experiment in love2d
11:55 Hirato PHP is like, C, except it's really slow, dumb, and broken :p
11:55 Hirato Lua reminds me more of basic syntax wise
11:56 thexyz and lua is tiny and fast
11:56 JackGruff joined #minetest
11:56 VanessaE thexyz: there is a secondary problem too though.  Some people perhaps stop coding for/contributing to the engine/game because, and this is not a dig against a certain other person here who will no doubt see this, there's a certain level of perfectionism attached to the project.  you've seen it.
11:57 Jordach c55 has always been like that :P
11:57 VanessaE that perfectionism is stopping perfectly good, functional code from being put into service.
11:57 thexyz yes I have
11:57 Peacock perfectionism or protectionism/turf/ego?
11:57 VanessaE Peacock: the former, I'm pretty sure.
11:57 thexyz but there's always the choice
11:57 Hirato let's replace the scripting engine with COBOL, that'll fix it
11:58 Peacock well it is kinda shitty when a good feature gets turned down because it wasn't done "the right way (tm)" but then, no one offers up any alternatives either
11:58 sapier VanessaE if you feel minetest is anything near "perfectionissm" you haven't actually seen someone who really wants to write good c/c++ code ;-)
11:58 VanessaE haha
11:58 VanessaE sapier: I don't mean the codebase is perfect
11:58 Hirato I'd say the Java guys are worse, sapier :p
11:58 VanessaE I mean the methodology for contribution review
11:59 sapier Hirato, scriptapi is a addon to core it'd be not that difficult to add a cobo version ... except of writing the cobol part itself of course ;-P
11:59 Hirato haha, I was joking
11:59 VanessaE hell the codebase is far from it, but then my code isn't exactly a model of perfection either.
11:59 Hirato my code's weird, I keep adding more features, but the total LoC keeps gonig down
12:00 sapier I wan't I actually had possibility to replace lua by something else in mind when reducing core/scriptapi coupling
12:00 sapier +s
12:00 nore joined #minetest
12:00 thexyz just make lua threaded
12:00 Hirato no point really, it means the maintainers need to do a lot more work, and Lua via LuaJIT, if used properly, is pretty fast
12:00 sapier thexyz for this to be of any use we need to break map/envrionment lock
12:01 VanessaE sapier: I fear that will never happen
12:01 sapier It's gonna be happen vanessae believe me ;-)
12:01 thexyz sapier: can't we lock it when lua actually modifies something?
12:01 VanessaE thexyz: that's the right way to do it, imho
12:02 sapier we can but for now any lua call is required to be within lock ... that's what I mean with we need to break it
12:02 thexyz well, so in the end it's not that hard?
12:02 VanessaE and if shit conflicts, hey, that's what proper coding techniques are there for.  fix your busted code instead of expecting the engine to hold your hand.
12:02 VanessaE right?
12:02 sapier not exactly, you can do a lots of things wrong on changing that
12:02 sapier but no it's not like rewriting whole core true
12:03 Hirato heh, so have lua run in parallel?
12:03 sapier we already do that in current dev tree
12:03 Hirato heh, cool
12:03 sapier for main menu only ;-)
12:03 Hirato :(
12:03 VanessaE in the old days if you wanted to start a new thread from your main task (we just used interrupts back then), you just had to make sure your new thread would leave enough CPU ("raster time" was the common phrase) for the main task, and that it wouldn't use any of the memory the main task uses.  then everyone would be happy.
12:04 sapier those things need to settle down prior starting the way mor complex task to add it to scriptapi ... but it's already prepared to be added there
12:04 sapier guess first thing to is it may be vmanip stuff
12:05 sapier to use it
12:05 Hirato I don't think it matters too much if the script execution is lagging behind, as long as the game remains mostly responsive
12:05 VanessaE s/game/server/
12:06 thexyz sapier: but what we have in main menu helps us execute lua function asynchronously from lua code, right?
12:06 VanessaE if the server is off generating land or executing some heavy abm/lua call in one part of the world, it should still be servicing build/dig/inventory/etc requests elsewhere as long as they are not taking place within the same mapblock
12:07 sapier mainmenu actually uses this e.g. for downloading screenshots moddetails serverlist
12:08 * VanessaE sprinkles sapier's sentences with some missing commas
12:09 thexyz yes, well, I'm not too sure how are you going to make the scripting API multithreaded; will you just spawn several threads with different Lua's (stack, etc) running inside?
12:09 sapier wait, that was a one line sentence .... ohhhh commas for enumeration ... a quite new concept to me :-)
12:09 splash_ left #minetest
12:09 VanessaE heh
12:09 sapier that's what is done in mainmenu, as creating a environment is a heavy operation those are precreated on startup
12:10 sapier everytime mainmenu wants to do  a asynchronous operaion that one is serialized and passed to one of those threada
12:10 sapier -a+s
12:10 sapier that thread executes the function and passes result back to mainmenu main thread
12:10 sapier of course that's not lightweight threading
12:11 thexyz fine then
12:12 sapier it's most likely only usefull for heavy tasks as you need to pass all data required to execute the function to the separate thread (for now)
12:12 sapier if we manage to break the env lock those threads can aquire their data themselfs
12:12 Hirato I kind of meant update all the ABMs in a separate thread ^^
12:13 thexyz well, what I mean is that engine executes lua callbacks, just make it execute them in separate threads multiple at once
12:14 thexyz and you'll be fine so long as no mod expects to find defaul:blahblah node after placing it somewhere
12:14 thexyz which no one of course will do!
12:14 sapier that's final target for it but we need to remove the env lock around main scriptapi thread ... as long as that one is in place we don't have any benefit
12:14 sapier +,,,,,
12:15 thexyz (replace " " with those at will)
12:15 thexyz and what about global data?
12:16 sapier you don't have access to global data rom async calls
12:16 thexyz and then there should be a flag for mod, like mod_threadsafe
12:16 thexyz because most mods just won't work or will do crazy shit
12:17 * VanessaE wonders how many of her mods would be considered thread-safe in their current state :P
12:17 sapier I never said you can do anything with async... it's a tool for very special cases .. you can gain a lot of performance if you do it right, but you can loose performance to on doing it wrong
12:17 Hirato unfortunately, no one's mods will be :P
12:17 anunakki joined #minetest
12:19 phantombeta joined #minetest
12:19 sapier one step after each other ;-) lets first make async work correct in main menu, then add it to scriptapi and start cleaning up env lock, once this is done we can start the abm and callback things ;)
12:20 thexyz what will you need async for in scriptapi?
12:20 sapier vmanip can use it
12:20 thexyz if lua callbacks can be executed in separate threads then there's no need for async, no?
12:20 sapier fetch data, pass it to async, do whatever longrun things you want
12:20 thexyz in its current state
12:21 thexyz ah, perhaps I should read the docs
12:22 sapier is there any need for async if callbacks are run asynchronous ... maybe not but I haven't exactly thought about it
12:22 thexyz well, in menu there is
12:22 thexyz anyway, I haven't managed to find any docs
12:22 sapier at least if all callbacks can be done in parallel and don't fill up any queue maybe not
12:23 sapier I wrote doc for async, not sure if I remember where I put it
12:23 thexyz yes, found it
12:23 damir__ joined #minetest
12:25 sapier I think callbacks can't be done async in general, they need access to global data
12:25 thexyz what data?
12:25 thexyz can you explain the point of `finished` function?
12:25 thexyz why can't you just write everything in `async_job`
12:25 thexyz I think we should have an API for global data then
12:26 thexyz or, well, some way to pass data between different callbacks
12:26 john_minetest Well, but what are the reasons that it isn't pulled in time?
12:27 john_minetest oops, wrong time
12:27 sapier we can do that but we'd need to transfer data from one env to another ... not quite a lightweight thing
12:27 VanessaE I need to ask
12:27 thexyz hmm.. let's think about it, what kind of global data would a mod need?
12:27 VanessaE you keep mentioning about "getting data" and so forth.  what data exactly?
12:28 VanessaE what exactly is it that a function that needs to execute asynchronously is expected to "get" before it can be executed?
12:28 VanessaE what categories of data, that is
12:28 sapier all functions defined by any other mod, any global variable, lua parts of minetest core
12:28 thexyz VanessaE: let's say you have an "areas" mod
12:28 thexyz there's a global lua variable which holds defined areas
12:29 thexyz what if someone creates an area in some thread and then someone checks for are in another thread
12:29 thexyz the data has to be shared somehow
12:29 Hirato locks bro
12:29 VanessaE ah, ok that I understand
12:29 thexyz I know what locks are, thanks
12:29 Hirato easier said than done tohugh\
12:29 thexyz that's not the problem
12:29 VanessaE I kept thinking of it from an intra-task perspective rather than inter-task.
12:30 sapier it's not a thing that can't be done thexyz but I'm not sure we gain any performance by it
12:30 thexyz sapier: have you read this http://lua-users.org/wiki/ThreadsTutorial
12:30 thexyz The other approach is to call lua_newthread. This creates a child state which has its own stack and which has access to global data. This approach is discussed here.
12:31 thexyz wow, I'm afraid that's gonna suck
12:32 sapier yes read lots of docs ... but my conclusion was it's possible but ugly and error prone
12:32 thexyz oh, so that's how it works now
12:32 VanessaE why would it suck?
12:33 VanessaE that sounds very much like how we did it in the old days, except that the child can't smash the parents' structures.
12:34 sapier if child has access to global data you have to bother mod developers with locking, no chance to avoid it
12:35 VanessaE well if by "access" you mean "write access", sure enough
12:35 sapier no read is critical too
12:35 VanessaE but then again, if the locking mechanism is simple enough, we wouldn't be any worse off than we are now, would we?
12:35 sapier there ain't something as "simple-locking"
12:36 thexyz but reading this page it seems that it has GIL
12:36 sapier GIL?
12:37 thexyz global interpreter lock
12:37 thexyz > The method above for implementing threading in Lua using a global mutex is inefficient on multiprocessor systems. As one thread holds the global mutex, other threads are waiting for it. Thus only one Lua thread may be running at a time, regardless of the number of processors in the system.
12:37 thexyz or did I read it wrong again?
12:39 sapier I don't think so ... this is like our env lock
12:39 thexyz oh well, lua can't help
12:39 sapier lua isn't designed to do multiple things on same stack same time
12:39 thexyz well, every lua thread has its own stack
12:39 thexyz (by lua thread I mean the thing you get after calling lua_newthread)
12:40 Exio4 Hirato: are you still having problems with minetest+archlinux?
12:40 thexyz so we'll have to implement our own things
12:40 thexyz (like you did)
12:40 * VanessaE imagines thread-hell with 50 different callbacks in their own threads....sounds a little messy :P
12:40 Hirato Exio4: yes, found the aforementioned workaroudn though of disabling that libGLES line
12:40 Exio4 it is a known bug caused by shitty packaging, just rebuilding it from sources without changing anything and it should work
12:40 Exio4 (that is how people fixed it)
12:42 Hirato no, that's not good enough :p
12:42 Exio4 aw
12:42 Hirato you need to comment out line 173 in src/CMakeLists.txt first
12:42 Exio4 weird
12:42 sapier thexyz any idea why you need threading on singlecore systems?
12:42 VanessaE bbl, my brain is full :P
12:42 Hirato the problem is it's linking against libGles AND libGL, the former breaks it for some reason
12:42 VanessaE sapier: does it matter?  MT website recommends dual core anyway
12:42 VanessaE bbl-->
12:43 sapier guess we can't even use more then 2 cores by now
12:43 thexyz sapier: what if there one slow callback and one fast one and the slow is called first
12:43 thexyz and if we have threads then I guess it'll switch between them
12:43 thexyz and the fast one can be completed before the slow one?
12:44 thexyz (assuming we've already got rid of big locks, etc)
12:44 sapier are you talking about current async or about some hypothetical one to be implemented?
12:44 thexyz hypothetical one, of course
12:45 sapier yes one beeing completed prior another is one of the base concepts of independent threads
12:45 sapier I don't get your point by now sorry?
12:45 thexyz so that's a good thing, isn't it?
12:46 sapier not in any case
12:46 thexyz why?
12:46 Leoneof joined #minetest
12:46 sapier e.g. if successor of fast one requires result of slow one it doesn't help anything
12:47 thexyz i'm talking about callbacks, not your async stuff
12:47 thexyz imagine that there are two callbacks
12:47 thexyz on_dig and some mobf step function
12:47 sapier ok
12:48 thexyz I've also assumed that in the glorious future Lua won't lock "the Server thread, Connection thread, and possibly one or more Emerge threads"
12:48 thexyz (http://dev.minetest.net/Lua_Optimization_Tips)
12:49 thexyz so there's a point, isn't there?
12:50 sapier it'd be good if this was possible yes
12:50 thexyz isn't it?
12:50 thexyz why then?
12:50 sapier BUT ... none of those callbacks(lua part) may have access to global data if you wanna run it in parallel
12:51 thexyz yes, i understand this, that's why i said we need some api to share data between callbacks
12:51 thexyz and yes, i read that you said that there will be overhead
12:52 sapier ok assumed we have a way to keep data consistent (Id more asume this to be real issue then sharing) it'd be good to have it
12:53 thexyz what's the difference? consistent/share?
12:53 Columbus240 joined #minetest
12:53 thexyz can we somehow provide access to the data without copying it between threads?
12:53 sapier share is just have them available consistency handling implies everyone has current "official" state accessible
12:54 sapier at least that's what I meant with it
12:54 thexyz I see
12:54 thexyz make a userdata multithreaded table
12:54 sapier I don't see any way to do data acces to another lua env atm
12:55 sapier via c++ ok that might be feasable
12:55 thexyz yes
12:55 thexyz so that we only pass pointers to it
12:55 sapier but limits access to data withing "exchange area"
12:55 thexyz hm?
12:56 sapier that userdata thing is something like an exchange area
12:56 sapier and of course if multiple threads work on same exchange area performance gain is gone
12:56 thexyz ah, well, I mean that we have an another type defined in C++ that behaves like a table but can lock itself on access
12:56 thexyz indeed
12:57 thexyz but not really gone
12:57 thexyz depends on how threads "work" on it, if they only read from it then everything's fine and fast
12:57 thexyz (if we use rwlock)
12:57 thexyz but that's too deep already
12:58 sapier in any case a solution like that could be done as extension to current async mechanism
12:58 thexyz I don't know how it works so I'll just believe you on that
12:58 sapier it just creates striped down lua environments on statup
12:59 sapier you'd just have to add that userdata to those envs too
13:00 Evolykane joined #minetest
13:01 sapier yet I'd start with more simple things first and keep those things in mind for later operation ;-) as you may need to lock contents of those userdata on working uppon them
13:01 thexyz this is true
13:03 john_minetest 13-3-7... omg, we missed the 7th march this year. It was so leet.
13:04 sapier calm down only 100 years to next chance
13:04 Jordach Did you mean: March 13 2007
13:04 john_minetest I am using dates that are sortable.
13:05 thexyz yes, sure, sortable
13:05 john_minetest of course 1-3-37 would also work if sortable backwards.
13:05 thexyz without leading zeroes for sure
13:05 john_minetest But those are 24 years
13:05 Columbus240 I'm asking another time, for my little problem... Here's my log:
13:05 Columbus240 *** Will build version 0.4.7-dev *** IRRLICHT_SOURCE_DIR = C:/Users/Stephane/Desktop/m​inetest-c55/irrlicht-1.8.1 IRRLICHT_INCLUDE_DIR = C:/Users/Stephane/Desktop/minet​est-c55/irrlicht-1.8.1/include IRRLICHT_LIBRARY = C:/Users/Stephane/Desktop/minetest-c55/irrlic​ht-1.8.1/lib/Win32-visualstudio/Irrlicht.lib IRRLICHT_DLL = C:/Users/Stephane/Desktop/minetest-c55/irrlic​ht-1.8.1/bin/Win32-VisualStudio/Irrlicht.dll CMake Error at src/
13:05 thexyz pastebin
13:05 sapier :-) you could use #define 2014 2013
13:06 Columbus240 oh...
13:06 john_minetest my little problem --> read "my little pony"...
13:06 Columbus240 :D
13:06 thexyz ShadowNinja: your both should add link to pastebin in its kick message
13:06 Taoki thexyz: I didn't implement color lights, but want the feature and suggested it a lot. Hopefully they will be possible with dynamic lighting shaders
13:06 thexyz Taoki: will those be ever done?
13:06 Columbus240 http://pastebin.com/c2EAVFEA
13:06 sapier taoki maybe I'm wrong but didn't color lights require switching to dynamic lighting?
13:07 thexyz Columbus240: well, do you have those dirs?
13:07 Columbus240 nope
13:08 thexyz then you're doing something wrong because they're here
13:08 thexyz src/script
13:08 Columbus240 Are they in src/script?
13:08 sapier maybe try git clone again
13:08 Columbus240 WTF?
13:09 Columbus240 That would be a great idea
13:09 Taoki thexyz: I'm really hoping so
13:09 arsdragonfly joined #minetest
13:09 Taoki Dynamic lighting is a must. I don't know how much I can help but will try to work with RBA on it (he's the shader expert of Minetest, so he / we can likely get something rolling eventually)
13:09 thexyz sapier: there was a patch which didn't require switching to hardware lighting
13:09 thexyz (if that's what you mean by dynamic)
13:10 sapier yes
13:10 Taoki Yes, hardware lighting
13:10 Taoki *is what I meant too
13:10 Columbus240 Erm, I don't know which link I should take
13:11 Taoki sapier: Seems they do
13:11 Columbus240 Is it the repository minetest in the minetest github site or minetest_game?
13:11 Taoki Theoretically, colored lights could be done with the existing system too
13:11 Taoki But people don't want more parameters stored per node data
13:11 sapier is there still a open pull request for that one?
13:11 thexyz and they were done once
13:12 thexyz but it breaks protocol
13:12 thexyz and lighting is buggy anyway
13:12 thexyz sapier: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=1262
13:12 Taoki Since then, you wouldn't store just one integer per light (intensity) but three (red, green, blue). Some developers were against the idea, because world storage would get too big
13:12 Taoki I believe it would be ok, but others know better
13:12 sapier Columbus240 minetest is minetest c++ core minetest_game is basic game only
13:13 Columbus240 thx
13:13 Exio4 Taoki: but four*
13:13 thexyz http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=vkSjk0mV
13:13 Exio4 intensity, and rgb
13:13 Taoki Exio4: Intensity could be embedded in RGB
13:13 sapier thexyz all links are broken in there :-/
13:13 Taoki Since the RGB color can be darker or brighter
13:13 thexyz sapier: http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=vkSjk0mV
13:14 thexyz I'm afraid this will break everything
13:14 thexyz by breaking map storage format
13:14 sapier argh :-) sorry
13:14 thexyz we could go with 8-bit color of course
13:15 nhm wow, lots of people here this morning. :)
13:15 thexyz but those are still hacks and lighting doesn't work very well anyway
13:15 sapier maybe we should create a pull request for it so we can backup those arguments for and against combined to code?
13:15 nhm So I've been thinking lately about integrated stories in minetest for children.  IE making something a little bit like the young lady's illustrated primer.
13:16 Taoki thexyz: Map storage format would have to be updated. But I thought Minetest knows how to do that natively
13:16 Taoki As in, upgrade world storage automaticlaly if something changed
13:16 Taoki Ah, wait
13:16 Columbus240 How does minetest save the game?
13:16 Taoki There is another way. Not sure how ok it would be though
13:16 thexyz anyway, we need someone familiar with irrlicht to do that
13:16 sapier I don't like the idea of breaking map format for a hack
13:17 Taoki thexyz: If a world uses the old storage, lights are loaded as only intensity (no color support). If a world is upgraded to use the new storage, colored lights are also read
13:17 thexyz (actually is there any reason the whole minetest world is a single irrlicht node?)
13:17 Taoki In case world storage can't be auto-converted that is
13:17 sapier thexyz legacy ;-)
13:17 Taoki thexyz: RBA and others mentioned it's a bad thing that it is. My personal suggestion would be making each chunk of world a Minetest node
13:18 thexyz sapier: leagacy? I don't know, could it be a performance thing?
13:18 sapier But I'd not be sad if someone would fix it
13:18 Jordach if anyone wants to use the "finished" models, feel free: CC-BY-SA: http://www.mediafire.com/download/​wp2f7wkkj6c8hmh/TemplateModels.zip
13:18 Taoki Could also be good if there is a client setting added, specifying how much to divide the world into nodes
13:18 Taoki Erm sorry, and Irrlicht node
13:18 Columbus240 Do I Curl or OpenAL for compiling Minetest?
13:18 Exio4 if coding was easy as dreaming :P
13:18 thexyz I mean, if it weren't then we could use Irrlicht's addLightSceneNode plus custom light manager
13:18 Columbus240 *Do I Need
13:19 sapier no idea about performance, but as far as I know, decision to move camera within world instead of moving world around camera, is main reason for 64k world size limit
13:19 thexyz there's even an example http://irrlicht.sourceforg​e.net/docu/example020.html
13:20 Taoki thexyz: The problem with hardware lights is that you need shaders to mask them where appropriate. Using param1, whcih specified the lighting value of each node
13:20 Taoki If not then sunlight will shine in caves and such
13:20 Taoki That's why it wasn't done already
13:20 thexyz Taoki: why will it?
13:20 john_minetest Why can't the world be moved around the camera?
13:20 Taoki We need a way to use the existing param1 network as a mask for various light sources
13:21 EvergreenTree joined #minetest
13:21 EvergreenTree o/
13:21 sapier I don't say it can't be done, but as far as I know it isn't done this way right now
13:21 Taoki thexyz: Because unless dynamic shadows / light cutting is enforced, nothing blocks light. In its initial state, hardware light shines on anything in its radius
13:21 Taoki Sun / moon light is infinite. That means it will shine just as bright in caves
13:21 EvergreenTree It's a white snowy day in the midwest right now.   5-7 inches deep
13:21 Taoki Torches would also shine through walls
13:22 Taoki No one figured out yet how to use param1 on each node to decrease its influence from a given light. But it's possible with shaders, that I heard
13:22 sapier guess that's gonna be an issue with large caves ... once the ceiling is out of active area, the cave will be bright :-)
13:23 Taoki sapier: Not if param1 is still used (which it must). If geometry was used dynamically though, yes... sun would shine in a cave where the ceiling dodn't load
13:23 thexyz Taoki: wait, I thought Irrlicht can do shadows
13:24 Taoki Hardware ligting must also respect param1 so Lua scripts can properly report the lighting level
13:24 Taoki thexyz: It does. But relying on shadows to cut light sources would have a lot of problems
13:24 thexyz ah, right
13:25 Taoki thexyz: First of all, if the ceiling of a cave isn't loaded, sunlight still shines in. Second, shadows cost a lot of FPS, many can't enable them (they must be optional). Also, param1 must still exist so scripts can report light values
13:25 Columbus240 Thanks for helping me
13:25 thexyz Taoki: well, it will exist, why not; I just think there's no need to keep it in sync with what player sees
13:25 Taoki Obviously dynamic shadows must exist too. But as a feature
13:25 Taoki What do you mean in sync with what the player sees?
13:26 Gethiox2 joined #minetest
13:26 thexyz well, you said "Hardware ligting must also respect param1"
13:26 thexyz which I didn't quite understand
13:26 Evolykane How to power the CNC Milling Machine in the Technic Mod?
13:26 thexyz just add a light source in place of torches, etc
13:26 Taoki thexyz: param1 is the light value of each node.
13:26 thexyz I know that
13:26 Taoki Yes, in another engine that would work. In minetest, param1 would have to be respected
13:27 thexyz why?
13:27 thexyz and why and how should it be "respected"
13:27 Taoki I can think of two reasons. First is to make sure sunlight doesn't shine in caves, as I mentioned. Second is to make sure the light value respects the light scripts would report.
13:27 Taoki As for how, that's been the problem so far. We need to cut the effect of each hardware light based on param1
13:28 thexyz I don't see any reason to do the second thing
13:28 Evolykane How to power the CNC Milling Machine in the Technic Mod?
13:28 Taoki If a HW light isn't masked by the param1 light maps, sunlight will shine in caves just like outside. That's the main issue
13:29 thexyz don't we have occlusion culling already?
13:29 Taoki thexyz: Maybe. To avoid the second thing, we'd need to connect the Lua function that reports light intensity to another system
13:29 Columbus240 What about deferred shading?
13:29 Taoki Yes, but it doesn't apply to light
13:29 Taoki Columbus240: Would be awesome too
13:29 Evolykane How to power the CNC Milling Machine in the Technic Mod?
13:29 reactor joined #minetest
13:29 thexyz why? if, say, a torch node is not drawn (occlusion culled) then just don't draw light source
13:30 cisoun joined #minetest
13:30 Taoki thexyz: But what if you are seeing a torch, but also the area on the wall it's on? The light would still shine through the wall. Also, what if you're seeing the light cast by a torch without the torch object being in view directly
13:30 Taoki **behind the wall it's on
13:30 thexyz ah, right
13:31 Taoki Personally, I'd be very happy if param1 could disappear. World storage would be much lighter, and the mapgen wouldn't work on compiling the lighting too. But sadly I don't see how that can happen
13:32 Taoki Well param1 would still have to exist for people without shaders. But clients with shaders enabled wouldn't have to receive it for example
13:34 Taoki The main problem is that indoor lighting. Dynamic shadows can't be relied on. Another system to keep sunlight from shining in closed spaces is difficult to think of, and so far no one found one that works
13:36 Taoki Only possible idea is the one I also support: Use param1 as the mask. Currently param1 is used directly as brightness, as surface color is set to simulate light. When HW light is enabled though, it would just cull various light sources, and vertex color would be 255 at all times.
13:38 Hirato sunlight's probably the only hard thing lighting wise
13:38 Taoki Even so however, it will be difficult. Because currently, all nodes simply have a param1 (light intensity value). There's no difference between light sources. But for hw light, each node needs to know its influence from each light.
13:38 Hirato for small scale light sources like torches, it doesn't really matter if they cast shadows or not, you're not going to notice unless you go looking for it
13:39 Taoki If not, placing a otrch in a cave would also make sunlight shine in the area touched by that torch
13:39 Taoki Since then all nodes just say "this surface received % light), but not from which source
13:40 Taoki Each node would need to know "I receive % light from sun / moon, % light from this torch, % light from this other torch, etc". I don't know how even that can be done with a single param1
13:40 Columbus240 A Node searches in a line between himself and the sun after other nodes. If he finds any, he will not be enlightened
13:40 thexyz raytracing?
13:40 Taoki Well, it must at least differentiate between sun light and torch light overall
13:40 Columbus240 Yes
13:40 Taoki thexyz: If only :)
13:40 Columbus240 Whats so difficut?
13:41 Taoki Raytracing is currently only used in 3D rendering. Realtime game engines with raytrace lighting are experimental and very slow
13:41 Taoki Raytracing in games will probably become standard 10-20 years from now
13:41 Columbus240 :D
13:41 Columbus240 Fail
13:41 john_minetest Raytracing? I am sure harrison can tell you a lot about it :D
13:41 Columbus240 Who's harrison?
13:41 thexyz really?
13:41 harrison i am the harrison
13:42 Columbus240 ok
13:42 harrison 10-20 years lol
13:42 john_minetest He does a lot of ra
13:42 Taoki I work with Blender frequently and am learning Cycles. So I got the chance to look into Raytracing a bit. Which I absolutely love :)
13:42 john_minetest ytracing
13:42 thexyz well then, easier to fix buggy lighting then
13:42 harrison i also start memes
13:43 Jordach Taoki, internals is just as good
13:43 Taoki thexyz: Hardware lighting is a different thing, and IMO needs to be done for Minetest at some point. The current lighting system is pretty much a hack, and just there cuz no better one exists (and it works on all computers)
13:43 harrison ,09mememememememememememmemememememem​ememememememememememememememememememe
13:43 harrison ,09                                   _        internet insect           .
13:43 harrison ,09   _ __ ___   ___  _ __ ___   ___ | |__   ___  _ __  _ __   ___  _ __ .
13:43 harrison ,09  | '_ ` _ \ / _ \| '_ ` _ \ / _ \| '_ \ / _ \| '_ \| '_ \ / _ \| '__|.
13:43 harrison ,09  | | | | | |  __/| | | | | |  __/| | | | (_) | |_) | |_) |  __/| |   .
13:43 harrison was kicked by ShadowBot: Message flood detected.
13:43 Jordach ZING
13:43 harrison joined #minetest
13:43 Jordach deal with it. *puts on shades*
13:44 thexyz Taoki: isn't this how other minecraft-like games work?
13:44 thexyz and why is that a hack
13:44 Leoneof joined #minetest
13:44 Taoki harrison: I'd like to be wrong on the fact that it will take long till raytrace lighting works in realtime engines. But many people confirmed it takes a LOT of GPU power
13:44 harrison Taoki, you are miserably wrong.
13:44 Taoki thexyz: I think Minecraft has a poor lighting system like Minetest's, no hw light. Terasology however has dynamic. You can see how much more beautiful and awesome it looks
13:44 harrison But so is almost everyone on this topic
13:45 Taoki harrison: This is one thing I'm glad to be wrong on if that's true :)
13:45 Taoki I'd love to see raytracing in games
13:45 Columbus240 Minecraft has for every side(or only for every block) a light value from 0-15
13:45 Columbus240 That Value tells the brightness
13:45 harrison The problem is that people don't go back to the beginning in thought
13:45 Hirato it works fi you do it really low res
13:45 Hirato like the typical implementation of radiance hints
13:46 Taoki harrison: Realtime raytracing is possible already, and even a few demos work at very good FPS! But, they only use very simple geometry, and I asusme very limited light bounces
13:46 harrison Lighting is NOT the primary advantage of tracing
13:46 harrison sigh
13:47 harrison i shall have to make another explanatory film
13:47 Taoki Hirato: Yes, resolution needs to be slow
13:47 Taoki harrison: If you ever ake a post about it, I'd like to see
13:47 harrison I have made hundreds of films at YT
13:48 Taoki Anyway, I heard about raytrace being done in either OpenCL or even GLSL. If a GLSL raytracer is possible, we can theoretically add even raytrace lighting to Minetest. Theoretically :)
13:48 Columbus240 I've got a funny idea: All the nodes you can see are put together to a realy big mesh, but that big mesh has fewer triangles than thousands of single nodes
13:48 john_minetest harrison: Drug films. With trippy graphics, trippy music and trippy voice echo.
13:48 john_minetest ;)
13:48 harrison The algorithms I use don't run on GPU
13:48 Taoki Columbus240: I thought this is already the case
13:48 harrison and cannot
13:48 Taoki oh
13:49 Taoki Yes, it can be done on CPU too. But normally I'd assume that is painfully slow
13:49 harrison Taoki: john_minetest is referring to the last 3 films. Which do you want to see first?
13:49 Taoki harrison: What's the channel they are on?
13:50 harrison http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5Tc5faobjk
13:50 harrison Do you run linux Taoki?
13:50 jin_xi holy shit im tripping balls
13:51 harrison Relax. You have taken a drug. Do you remember what the pill looked like?
13:51 Taoki harrison: That is pretty interesting. Seems to run pretty fast too, thought I can see a somewhat lower resolution
13:51 john_minetest was it the blue or the red one?
13:51 Taoki And yes
13:51 Taoki I'm on openSUSE
13:51 harrison paste the output from inxi
13:51 john_minetest openSUSE is just throwing away standards
13:52 Hirato it was purple
13:52 Taoki harrison: Never used inxi. The command doesn't seem to exist either
13:52 harrison CPU~Quad core Intel Core i7-2700K CPU (-HT-MCP-) clocked at Min:1881.523Mhz Max:3344.140Mhz Kernel~3.12-4.towo-siduction-686 i686 Up~35 min Mem~898.1/3214.8MB HDD~160.1GB(47.2% used) Procs~189 Client~Shell inxi~1
13:52 harrison there is mine
13:52 Taoki john_minetest: Yeah, many people do't like this distro. Despite how awesome and of quality it is in practice
13:52 harrison it is an infobash replacement
13:52 Hirato for now, can torches be done in real time (without shadows) and the sun computed via the current hack?
13:52 reactor harrison: memberhopper?
13:53 harrison MEMEhopper
13:53 harrison obv
13:53 reactor Also.
13:53 Taoki harrison: I have a core i7 as well. 920... 4 cores / 8 threads, 2.66 GHZ (running it at 2.8 though)
13:53 reactor Hello everytestsubject.
13:53 harrison OK, well, then, if you are really 1337 you can run the tracer
13:53 harrison your hardware is sufficient
13:53 john_minetest Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-4770 CPU @ 3.40GHz
13:54 harrison intel has a chip coming out that will trace VERY fast.
13:54 harrison but it's usable now
13:55 Taoki harrison: Anyway, I can see in that video that everything is pretty pixelated, and looks like it ran ad a low resolution. That explains why the ray tracer can run at an acceptable performance. Problem is, what if you run it at full screen resolution :)
13:55 iqualfragile joined #minetest
13:55 Taoki That's tracing dozens of more pixels
13:55 reactor iqualfragile: o/
13:56 Hirato draw it into a frame buffer sand scale it up
13:56 Hirato call it retro mode :D
13:56 Hirato use GL_NEAREST too ;)
13:56 Taoki harrison: Also, it doesn't seem that a lot of geometry is rendered at once there, nor any dynamic shadows are also traced. If there were as many objects as you see in a 3D game today usually, anbd shaows were traced too, it would likely run much slower
13:56 harrison If you were actually as interested in raytracing as you say, you would clone and run the code and look at the code, not snipe and cavil
13:56 Taoki That's why I said ray tracing works for simpler demos, but can't be used fully yet
13:56 zat joined #minetest
13:57 Columbus240 Mysterious: Visual Studio shows me many errors in windows API files (winsock2.h) and one error in the minetest socket.h
13:57 Taoki Ok. Just saying what I heard so far, and what I noticed
13:57 Hirato heh, conflicts?
13:57 Taoki I am interested and might try your code out
13:57 thexyz Columbus240: what minetest version are you building?
13:57 hmmmm joined #minetest
13:57 Columbus240 socket seems to be using an undefined struct sockaddr_in but thats in winsock2
13:57 Columbus240 The newest
13:57 Columbus240 Minetest master
13:57 thexyz uh, try some release tag; the build can be broken at times
13:58 thexyz (windows msvc build)
13:58 Taoki harrison: Till then, I was curious to ask if it still works at full resolution, with shadows, and with more objects rendered at once. If you tried it with that until now as well.
13:58 thexyz Columbus240: because no one constantly tests it
13:58 harrison And where is the code going to come from when chips are fast enough? From a brilliant critic like yourself, who can think of reasons why actually working code from one who has spent over a decade working on fundamental issues is somehow not interesting?
13:58 Taoki Erm, no. I don't think like that
13:58 nore http://nore.mesecons.net/screenshot_4049932325.png <-- what do you think of that?
13:58 Taoki I DO support ray tracing, and the idea of readying the code for when the hardware can be fast enough to run it
13:58 harrison So far you think exactly like that.
13:58 MrBeNNy joined #minetest
13:59 Taoki I'm only stating why it's not fully possible yet at full scale
13:59 harrison It will be when knights landing is out
13:59 Megaf joined #minetest
13:59 Taoki Other than that, I think you did something nice and like what I see :)
13:59 nore ^ that was the biggest generated city ever in mt (and still, not completely generated...)
13:59 OldCoder joined #minetest
13:59 harrison shadows are for when resolution and framerate are sufficient
13:59 Megaf Hi all
14:00 harrison https://github.com/harrisonpartch/spasim
14:00 Taoki I've actually been poking the Blender Game Engine developers to integrate Cycles into the BGE. Some say it's pointless because there isn't the hardware yet, but I still believe it should be done as a feature
14:00 harrison Clone or stfu
14:00 Taoki Thanks
14:00 Taoki Fine :P
14:00 harrison apparently i am irritable today
14:01 arsdragonfly1 joined #minetest
14:01 Taoki Just be nice and tell me what dependencies I need to compile it will you? Usually those aren't listed and I prefer installing any package manually
14:01 Taoki It's ok, happens
14:01 harrison lets see, that makes how many days in a row?
14:01 harrison oh, yeah
14:01 harrison all of them
14:01 Taoki Ok... every -dev package in my Linux repositories. Got it :P
14:02 harrison you need linuxaos first. then you also need opengl and openal libs
14:02 Taoki opengl and openal I have. Never heard of linuxaos I think, will see if it's there
14:02 harrison wait, is your box running 64-bit?
14:02 Taoki yeah
14:03 harrison no, wait for my instructions on linuxaos
14:03 harrison ok, are you running multiarch yet?
14:03 Taoki oh
14:03 Taoki No I'm running openSUSE
14:03 harrison sigh
14:03 harrison multiarch
14:04 Taoki Ah. I can run 32bit applications too if that's what it means
14:04 Taoki If I also have the 32bit libs for them
14:04 Taoki Which I do in many cases, openSUSE provides them for such cases
14:05 harrison right, but using the old compatibility libs or the new multiarch? here is the thing -- we could run into a lib problem -- just so you don't get upset if that happens
14:06 Taoki I'm not really sure what the difference is and how to check, sorry. If it happens I will know though
14:06 harrison very first: install unixaos from http://www.informatik.uni-bremen.de/~fld/UnixAos/
14:06 Taoki The 64bit repository of my distro contains 32bit packages specifically for running 32bit programs when needed though
14:06 harrison as long as you aren't running a very recent kernel, np
14:06 harrison or something
14:07 reactor ?
14:07 reactor An I am running OpenDUDE.
14:07 Taoki I seem to have xaos, a fractal generator, in my repositories. Not sure if it's the same thing or works too
14:07 harrison ia32 compatibility libs work fine. multiarch (the new system) can be tricky
14:07 Renoki joined #minetest
14:08 harrison let's not borrow trouble from the future
14:08 harrison http://www.informatik.uni-bre​men.de/~fld/UnixAos/rev.5406/
14:08 Taoki So is Xaos the package I'm looking for?
14:08 harrison grab the tgz and the install script
14:08 Taoki As in, same thing as that
14:08 harrison xaos is wonderful but completely irrelevant in this context
14:09 Taoki Ah, ok
14:09 harrison follow these instructions
14:09 harrison http://www.informatik.uni-brem​en.de/~fld/UnixAos/Readme.txt
14:09 Taoki Can I simply unpack that somewhere? I'd rather not install any package not in a repository system-wide
14:09 Taoki I don't like doing that usually
14:10 Taoki But in most cases I can just unpack a dependency and have it pointed to at compile time
14:10 harrison You can install not-as-root but don't
14:10 harrison just su and install it
14:10 Taoki I'd rather not if it can be avoided.
14:11 harrison then install as user to a location on your path
14:11 harrison so you can run it from any directory
14:11 Taoki Ok. Downloading the LinuxAos.tgz now, will take a bit
14:12 harrison so carmack says: raytracing needs 100 rays/pixel
14:12 Columbus240 How to get a stable minetest source code?
14:12 harrison actually the big advantage of tracing appears at 1 ray
14:13 Columbus240 On github i've found branches like stable 0.4, but i don't know how to download it
14:14 thexyz Columbus240: https://github.com/minetest​/minetest/archive/0.4.8.zip
14:15 Columbus240 thx
14:16 Columbus240 To the raytrace discussion: I meant a node should raytrace the sun/moon for looking if he's enlightened or not
14:18 harrison the big advantage is that tracing is robust in the presence of massively occluding geometry where rasterization breaks down
14:19 harrison this is why toy worlds (in games, vr etc) always have such impoverished geometry
14:19 harrison they have to have it
14:19 harrison because they have to draw all of it
14:20 PilzAdam joined #minetest
14:21 PilzAdam Hello everyone!
14:21 Jordach afternoon
14:21 Peacock Hello PulseAudio!
14:21 harrison shadows will slow the tracer (by a constant factor) but extra geometry will not
14:21 harrison sort of
14:21 Hirato Columbus240: that really only works if enough of the world is loaded
14:22 Columbus240 Ah yes the minetest world is infinite in all the sides...
14:22 Hirato I suppose blocks can store lighting info about overhead blocks
14:22 Columbus240 It would work in minecraft
14:23 harrison http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pI4IYRT-Msw
14:24 harrison if you watch that in 720p you will see some interesting interference effects that come from geometry as texture
14:24 Taoki harrison: Ok, unpacked it somewhere. What next?
14:25 harrison http://www.informatik.uni-brem​en.de/~fld/UnixAos/Readme.txt
14:25 harrison you installed it or not?
14:25 harrison unpacking is not part of installation in  this case
14:25 harrison the installer does the unpacking
14:25 jin_xi lol oberon?
14:25 Taoki It's a tgz, doesn't seem to have an install script. And I'd rather not instally it... just point to the libraries
14:25 katyusha joined #minetest
14:26 harrison http://www.informatik.uni-bre​men.de/~fld/UnixAos/rev.5406/
14:26 harrison grab the tgz and the install script
14:26 harrison as i said before
14:26 harrison see the "install script" in that line?
14:27 Taoki ah
14:28 harrison when you can type "aos" in the terminal and start aos, we can move to the next step
14:28 Hirato I feel like I took drugs watching that
14:29 harrison Thank you for sharing.
14:29 harrison http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Hollywoo​d/2013/12/13/susan-sarandon-gets-high
14:29 harrison SUSAN SARANDON ADMITS SHE GETS STONED BEFORE AWARDS SHOWS
14:30 Hirato http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vw6K9UULzP4
14:30 harrison thx
14:31 Taoki I'd rather do this later...
14:31 sfan5 !title
14:31 MinetestBot sfan5: Derek had a Double Dose - Swede Mason - YouTube
14:32 harrison As i foresaw....
14:32 Megaf Is there a bug with minetest minimal on master branch? I cant start it
14:32 Megaf http://paste.debian.net/70851/
14:32 smoke_fumus joined #minetest
14:32 Taoki Just somewhat paranoid about installing packages from unknown sources on my system, even as user :/
14:32 sfan5 Megaf: that seems to be a bug with something else
14:33 Taoki Erm files without packages especially. Since I can't maintain them as easil
14:33 PilzAdam Megaf, you are supposed to give a --worldname or --world param to it
14:33 Hirato get arch bro, make a pkgbuild
14:33 PilzAdam dunno why it crashes, though
14:33 Megaf PilzAdam, I never did that, it would always create one
14:33 Taoki I'm happy with openSUSE thanks :)
14:34 harrison it is all right Taoki. it goes with my motto
14:34 harrison cygnus inter anates
14:35 PilzAdam Megaf, how many worlds are availible?
14:35 Taoki Lol
14:35 Megaf none, its a fresh install
14:36 PilzAdam how many games do you have installed?
14:36 Megaf minimal only
14:37 PilzAdam when I start it like this I get "15:37:20: ERROR[main]: Subgame [] could not be found."
14:37 Columbus240 thexyz : The files you gave me have the same error
14:38 Megaf PilzAdam, then change in minetest.conf.example default game or game type or somehting like that
14:38 Megaf and save it as minetest.conf
14:38 PilzAdam with "--gameid minimal" I get the same error as you
14:38 Megaf yep
14:40 john_minetest hmm, I think I will try to set up a server for a few minutes
14:41 john_minetest in an hour or so
14:42 Columbus240 left #minetest
14:44 Jordach http://i.imgur.com/k3N9UTE.png
14:45 sfan5 Jordach: stylish!
14:46 Jordach my modern skin
14:46 Jordach notice that i have a proper hat now
14:46 PilzAdam Megaf, its the sqlite rollback that breaks it
14:47 Megaf hm
14:49 john_minetest !up 92.78.115.82
14:49 MinetestBot john_minetest: Invalid Port:
14:49 john_minetest !up 92.78.115.82  30000
14:49 MinetestBot john_minetest: Invalid Port:
14:49 john_minetest !up 92.78.115.82 30000
14:49 MinetestBot 92.78.115.82:30000 seems to be down
14:49 Jordach better
14:50 Hirato lol
14:50 Peacock butter
14:50 Hirato that word detection is dodge
14:50 Peacock why dodge when you can pontiac
14:50 john_minetest !up 92.78.115.82 30000
14:50 MinetestBot 92.78.115.82:30000 seems to be down
14:50 john_minetest :/
14:51 reactor joined #minetest
14:51 john_minetest can somebody try to connect to  92.78.115.82 : 30000 ?
14:53 Hirato lame
14:53 Hirato minetest doens't support cltr-v for text fields
14:54 Megaf PilzAdam, so, nobody tested the new rollback with the actually "official"game...
14:54 Hirato stuck on "connecting" for me, mate
14:54 harrison that's what she said
14:55 reactor
14:55 PilzAdam Megaf, it only fails when creating worlds with mineteserver
14:55 reactor OldCoder: o/
14:55 reactor How's the science?
14:55 PilzAdam Megaf, and that is not a common usecase
14:55 OldCoder reactor, Hi
14:55 Wuzzy joined #minetest
14:55 OldCoder reactor, PM
14:55 john_minetest !up 92.78.115.82 30000
14:55 MinetestBot 92.78.115.82:30000 seems to be down
14:55 john_minetest D:
14:55 reactor !up 192.168.0.255
14:55 MinetestBot 192.168.0.255:30000 seems to be down
14:55 Hirato forward your ports, <insert 4chan slur>
14:56 harrison what server does the "in crowd" hang out on?
14:56 harrison i want to be "hip"
14:56 Hirato amazon cloud, oh yeah!
14:56 john_minetest !up 92.78.115.82 30000
14:56 MinetestBot 92.78.115.82:30000 seems to be down
14:58 Peacock hip being a relative term :P
14:58 Jordach http://i.imgur.com/xYcdFbT.png :P
14:58 Peacock most hip people i know/knew hang out in cafes, flash their iphones and bitch about consumerism lol
14:58 harrison 92.78.115.82 is up
14:58 harrison conusmerism eh
14:59 harrison who needs it?
14:59 Hirato irony
14:59 harrison iBrony
14:59 Peacock thats like environmental types who change their phones and clothes each year and wouldn't live without a car lol
15:00 reactor Pwned.
15:00 Hirato "people are so consumerist" posts the apple hipster on tumblr, checking his purple mohawk, and pulling out his iphone in its Brony cover, with a big bad of McD's
15:00 Hirato **bag
15:01 john_minetest harrison: Server crashes... trying a few things
15:01 harrison dude! you change your clothes less than once a year?
15:01 Hirato wait, you guys have clothes!?
15:01 harrison Mr Peacock. are you free?
15:01 Peacock well McDs aint as popular here, french folk like fancier food, and care about not being fat
15:01 Peacock thats CAPTAIN Peacock to you Mrs. Slocombe
15:02 Hirato it's all about the "french fries" parties
15:02 Hirato just like in korea
15:02 harrison I think I am unanimous in my opinion.
15:02 john_minetest harrison: server is back up
15:03 Peacock though fancy foods has its own drawback, ridiculously small portions, hideously expensive lol
15:06 PilzAdam bbl
15:07 Peacock barbecue later
15:10 harrison Which three female singers would you like to see in an imaginary supergroup?
15:10 harrison I was thinking maybe lorde sky ferreira and grimes
15:12 Evolykane joined #minetest
15:15 john_minetest harrison: Maybe Lady gaga, madonna and nicky minage?
15:15 harrison woah
15:15 harrison gaga and madonna would fight tho
15:17 harrison http://www.universityherald.com/articles/​6215/20131214/exercise-activates-stronger​-sexual-desires-women-antidepressants.htm
15:24 reactor john_minetest: GLaDOS, GLaDOS and GLaDOS.
15:28 Taoki joined #minetest
15:37 rubenwardy joined #minetest
15:37 Peacock cretons underway :D
15:37 rubenwardy Hi all
15:40 Peacock talk about necroposting lol https://forum.minetest.net/vie​wtopic.php?pid=122015#p122015
15:41 reactor joined #minetest
15:42 rubenwardy lol#
15:43 Peacock like, 1 1/2 years between the last post and newest lol
15:45 Peacock perhaps some sort of archiving plugin, the way news sites closes comments when it's been X long since the last one
15:47 specing proller: 0.o your server just hit 33 people
15:48 iqualfragile wut 33?
15:48 Hirato ahaha, mircea kitsune
15:49 Hirato I will forever remember him as the guy who made this http://www.youtube.com/watch?featur​e=player_embedded&amp;v=R_EhzYOCUfw
15:52 specing I thought it was a she
15:52 MinetestBot GIT: kwolekr commited to minetest/minetest: Update mapgen params in ServerMap after Mapgen init 7a4c1e7327 2013-12-14T07:49:20-08:00 http://git.io/TDHtxw
15:53 iqualfragile Hirato: ah, that what all this fuss was about
15:53 Hirato hmm?
15:55 rubenwardy Can I change my forum email?
15:56 Taoki Hirato: Interesting reminder to be remembered by :)
15:56 Hirato :D
15:57 Taoki And yeah, that's one of the videos I got murdered for the most xD Not the only one... I'm a pretty controversed internet person ;)
15:57 Hirato haha, I keep getting you and that mario fellow confused
15:58 Hirato sometimes, I'd swear about 60% of us hang out in the exact same channels on freenode
15:58 iqualfragile but hey, he did master that camera tracking quite well
15:58 kizeren joined #minetest
15:58 iqualfragile but the walkcycle is fucked up
15:58 Hirato what do you expect from xonotic's animators ;)
15:58 Taoki iqualfragile: Videos like that are partly to experiment with camera tracking and 3D integration. Hoping of becoming a better animator and stuff in the future
15:59 Taoki I didn't make Xonotic's animations :)
15:59 Taoki I worked on a lot of other things in Xon though
15:59 Evolykane joined #minetest
15:59 Hirato was a half joke :P
15:59 Hirato xonotic anims are pretty bad
15:59 Taoki I have to agree sadly. Some of them that is... walk cycle and damage could be better
16:00 Taoki For death animations, I'm hoping regdolls are added soon
16:00 Hirato the models too, they're not set up well
16:00 Taoki Player models are of nice quality IMO, but they have problems (eg: Bad rigging, vertices going out of bounds)
16:00 Hirato it was hard enough to do pitch correct
16:00 Issa2013 joined #minetest
16:00 Issa2013 joined #minetest
16:00 Hirato but ragdolls, shit...
16:01 Hirato erebus is literally the only one who didn't adapt horribly
16:01 john_minetest There should be a minetest server guide on the wiki with the most popular servers listed and info on them,.
16:02 Taoki Peacock: Argh... I just realized the last post there was from 2012, not 2013. That's why I necroposted :P
16:02 Taoki Thought the last post was from a few months ago
16:07 Taoki Peacock: Personally though, I think reviving old threads is ok if done with a purpose, although many people automatically look down upon that. Colored lights are still an issue for example... so posting in a thread about that after an year makes sense, and can hopefully bring some discussion back up
16:08 Hirato ironically it was DISCUSS!ed earlier today
16:10 Taoki Yeah, here on IRC, which is where I saw the link :P
16:10 MrBeNNy joined #minetest
16:11 iqualfragile Taoki: i think that there are plans to add "real" lights to minetest quite soon
16:11 harrison it is snowing here
16:11 Taoki iqualfragile: Yes, with shaders. Hardware lighting would be amazing. RBA knows shaders well, maybe I can help him with it too somehow
16:12 Hirato so how much longer until you guys convince him to add deformable cubes :D
16:12 Taoki Deformable in what sense?
16:12 iqualfragile in case somebody wants to do the task i strongly recommend using deferred shading
16:13 iqualfragile nothing else scales for many lightsources
16:13 Hirato as in CUUUUUUBBBBBBBBBEEEEEEE TWOOOOOOOOO!!!
16:14 Taoki iqualfragile: Agreed
16:14 Taoki Will bring that to RBA actually. I didn't realize hw lighting could be done both with or without deferred shading
16:14 Taoki Deferred could also help with masking lights behind param1
16:14 Hirato I wouldn't advise shadows in the non-deferred version
16:14 iqualfragile Taoki: didnt you implement model support for minetest?
16:15 iqualfragile we can care about shadows later
16:15 Taoki iqualfragile: Yes. More correctly said, I just connected Irrlicht's model system to Minetest entities. The model rendering code is part of Irrlicht, just Minetest wasn't using it
16:15 Hirato shadows are important, ebcause sunlight :p
16:15 iqualfragile Taoki: thanks for that
16:15 Taoki Hirato: That's why param1 must mask hardware lights, just like it does current lights
16:15 harrison how would you add cubes of many sizes to minetest? say the current block is size 1. how would you implement 1/2, 1/4, 1/8 .... blocks?
16:16 Taoki iqualfragile: NP. Glad I could do something useful like that
16:16 iqualfragile harrison: you do not
16:16 harrison that is much more interesting than adding lights
16:16 Taoki harrison: Currently using nodeboxes. But nodes are still the same size in reality
16:16 Taoki I was going to suggest a feature to change that
16:16 Hirato global cube scale?
16:16 Taoki So for example, other games (unlike minetest_game) can use smaller voxels
16:16 Taoki yeah
16:17 Hirato I AM BECOME A GIANT
16:17 * rubenwardy is so tempted to  https://forum.minetest.net/vie​wtopic.php?pid=121944#p121944 << "Sorry, but no one cares"
16:17 Taoki Default should stay 1meter like it seems to be currently. But possible to override
16:17 harrison o rilly iqualfragile is there some fundamental reason that a rasterizer cannot render arbitrarily complex geometry?
16:17 harrison o, wait.
16:17 iqualfragile harrison: its about the ammount of lights
16:18 harrison it is about most lights being dim
16:18 harrison -- metaphor alert --
16:18 Hirato I think the default physics speeds are kind of boring ^^
16:18 Hirato movement_speed_walk = 7
16:18 Hirato movement_speed_crouch = 2
16:18 Hirato movement_speed_climb = 3
16:18 Hirato movement_speed_jump = 10
16:18 Hirato ^ how do you guys like those :D
16:19 reactor I would like it if someone posted the speeds and accelerations like in Half-Life 1.
16:19 reactor The movement is so unchained there.
16:19 reactor Walking 7 km/h seems appropriate.
16:20 Hirato that should really be a run spede IMO
16:20 reactor No.
16:21 reactor 14 km/h is the cruising speed while running.
16:21 reactor One can sprint faster, but get exhausted and have to stop.
16:21 Hirato it's a game, who cares about reality
16:23 Taoki I asimed for realistic movement when I added those physics. Current defaults are good for me though
16:23 Taoki **aimed
16:25 Hirato ...maybe 6?
16:25 Taoki BBL
16:25 reactor 7 seems appropriate for walking
16:26 reactor totally
16:26 harrison is that a threat?
16:26 reactor harrison: Cornhilio?
16:26 harrison <Taoki> BBL
16:27 harrison <harrison> is that a threat?
16:27 harrison "If we can hit that bull's-eye then the rest of the dominoes will fall like a house of cards... Checkmate."
16:30 Hirato reactor: if we're really taking the argument of realism here, it seems totally logical that in a world full of cubey things, the inhabitants wouldn't learn additional methods of moving around more effectively, like handing onto ledges
16:30 reactor Btw, Hirato, those settings do feel like Half-Life.
16:30 Hirato ^^
16:30 reactor But jumping is a bit high.
16:30 Hirato I think it might actually be a bit fast, what was the default?
16:30 Hirato I wanted it high enough for 2 cubes
16:31 reactor I don't remember.
16:31 reactor 2 cubes is much eh
16:31 Leoneof joined #minetest
16:31 john_minetest 2 cubes is 2 meters
16:31 john_minetest That is the world record.
16:31 NekoGloop joined #minetest
16:31 reactor yeah.
16:31 Hirato by that logic the player is also a meter wide :p
16:31 reactor Time to put on long fall boots, mate.
16:31 Hirato would tha tmake him fat of a giant? :P
16:32 Hirato **or
16:33 Hirato spekaing of jumping, fall damage constants, please :3
16:33 john_minetest !up digitalaudioconcepts.com 30001
16:33 MinetestBot digitalaudioconcepts.com:30001 is up (433ms)
16:34 Calinou joined #minetest
16:34 john_minetest Why can't i connect
16:35 Leoneof joined #minetest
16:39 Peacock well, i had to look at 4 different recipes to figure out the water has to evaporate before the cretons are done lol
16:39 reactor cretins?
16:39 Peacock cretons :P
16:39 Leoneof joined #minetest
16:39 Peacock http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cretons
16:40 Peacock typically made with pork, im using veal
16:40 Peacock or Rilettes if you're france french
16:42 rubenwardy Is Mito551 here under some guise?
16:43 rubenwardy kaeza, is the firearms bug fixed with the projectiles?
16:43 Peacock i heard he went to Switzerland and got a sex change
16:43 iqualfragile how can i add_item and give the item some damage value?
16:43 reactor I like crying cretins.
16:43 reactor s/crying/frying/
16:44 Peacock well add entity doesn't return a reference to the entity object?
16:44 Peacock https://github.com/minetest/minetes​t/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt#L1278
16:44 * EvergreenTree is back
16:44 Peacock load the entity and do damage
16:44 reactor The sound of fizzling flesh, as they cringe in the incinerationchamber.
16:44 reactor s/nc/n c/
16:46 ShadowNinja thexyz: ShadowBot already does that. But only for paste floods. And those require longer lines so they're rarer than regular message floods.
16:46 harrison the preceding chat included a metaphorical use of language. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metaphor
16:47 webguy joined #minetest
16:47 webguy left #minetest
16:48 webguy joined #minetest
16:48 webguy hi guys
16:48 EvergreenTree o/
16:49 harrison webguy: I feel offended by your recent action(s). Please read http://stop-irc-bullying.eu/stop
16:49 john_minetest VanessaE: Have I got a custom skin on your server yet?
16:49 webguy i dont quite get it, i just said 'hi'
16:50 EvergreenTree o/ is a waving guy
16:51 webguy anyways... i jst thought that it would be cool, if one could play minetest in a browser, so i searched the web and found 'emscripten' a tool written in javascript, that lets you execute c++ code compiled with LLVM in your browser
16:51 Megaf <PilzAdam> Megaf, it only fails when creating worlds with mineteserver
16:51 Megaf <PilzAdam> Megaf, and that is not a common usecase
16:51 reactor EvergreenTree: he feels offended by the gesture.
16:51 Megaf Well, thats how servers work
16:51 EvergreenTree oh
16:51 reactor He's probably some kind of an antifa freak.
16:52 Megaf You remotely login and run the server
16:52 EvergreenTree What offensive about a waving guy?
16:52 Megaf Thats the way I do
16:52 harrison who is antifa?
16:52 reactor Oh. I thought harrison was saying that about your o/, EvergreenTree.
16:52 reactor Never mind.
16:52 reactor :D
16:52 harrison but who is antifa?
16:52 reactor You.
16:52 harrison omg lol
16:52 reactor I'm kidding.
16:53 harrison um, no. actually not.
16:53 harrison as i am sure you know.
16:53 webguy harrison: y u ask?
16:53 reactor harrison: I know you are not, don't worry.
16:53 Peacock anitifa is european antifascists i believe
16:53 reactor It's radical antifascists.
16:53 harrison we have them here too
16:53 webguy socialists
16:53 harrison not only europe
16:53 reactor Those who have gone too far.
16:53 reactor Not socialists, webguy.
16:53 Peacock well it's not like europe is short on socialists lol
16:54 harrison they are puppets
16:54 webguy reactor: not?
16:54 reactor Antifa are as dangerous as fascists.
16:54 Hirato hai guys, is this #politics
16:54 webguy socialists can be dangerous too
16:54 reactor Depends on the methods.
16:54 webguy i mean extreme socialists
16:54 Peacock any extremist group is dangerous, doesn't matter what specific philosophy it involves
16:54 reactor Antifa use violence.
16:54 reactor Yes, they're extremists.
16:54 harrison http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aleksandr_Dugin
16:55 Hirato is this were we complain about libruls?
16:55 webguy anyone tried emscripten on minetest?
16:55 reactor Peacock: that's what I meant.
16:55 iqualfragile would somebody be so kind to create a nodebox for me?
16:55 harrison nobody nodes the trouble i've seen
16:55 reactor So, basically, antifa = antifascists who use violence against fascistss and non-fascists.
16:55 Peacock and yeah socialists are dangerous too, but instead of using violence, they choke whatever they touch slowly with regulations lol
16:56 Peacock pretty soon they'll be telling us what lightbulbs we can and can't use
16:56 harrison the important thing to know about antifa
16:56 harrison is that they are going to lose
16:57 webguy Peacock: THe EU does tell its citizens what lightbulbs to use
16:57 harrison http://alternativeright.com/blog/2013/8/30/tr​ansitioning-from-modernity-a-review-of-alexan​der-dugins-4th-political-theory-part-2-of-2
16:57 harrison The Postmodern world, despite its gifts of new and ever changing stimuli, is a cage that traps humanity in its own senses, severing it from the authenticity of Dasein. Let me put it this way: Do you want to believe that you’re a hermaphroditic African-Asian dragon trapped inside a heterosexual white male’s body? In Postmodernity you can become whatever you want, and later on, if you change your mind, we can always turn you into a littl
16:57 harrison elf girl princess. You can become whatever you want to be, whenever and wherever you want to be. We have the technology, and no cisprivileged bigot will stand in your way of becoming a real pony princess. After all, anything’s possible in virtual reality, which is Postmodernity.
16:57 harrison “The same experience that makes the transcendental subjectivity manifest itself and deploy its content, thus creating time with its intrinsic music, is regarded by the Radical Subject as an invitation to reveal itself in another manner – on the other side of time...For the Radical Subject, it is not only virtuality and electronic prisons which are the prison, but reality itself has become so: a concentration camp, an agony, and a
16:57 harrison torture. The slumber of history is something contrary to the condition where the Radical Subject could exist, complete itself and become.” (page168) Chapter Ten, The Ontology of the Future
16:58 webguy harrison: if you nazi you better leave
16:58 Peacock jesus christ
16:58 harrison webguy: I feel offended by your recent action(s). Please read http://stop-irc-bullying.eu/stop
16:58 rubenwardy Please dont bring politics into here
16:58 Hirato I feel offended by your recent action(s). Please read http://start-irc-bullying.eu/start
16:59 harrison good call rubenwardy
16:59 webguy yeah
16:59 Peacock this place is constantly loaded with politics lol what do you think opensource and the fsf are about?
16:59 Exio4 w00t!
16:59 harrison race
16:59 Exio4 the samsung printer was easy to setup
16:59 webguy sooo, minetest in a browser whatd'you say?
16:59 reactor Race? WROOOOOM!
16:59 Hirato I say, "soooo.... <5 FPS?"
16:59 harrison kick and ban webguy is what i say
16:59 zash Race condition?
16:59 harrison lol
16:59 reactor Heh.
17:00 reactor My modem is the king of race conditions.
17:00 harrison webguy is antifa
17:00 webguy harrison: shut up really, you can join 'politics or whatever
17:00 harrison see?
17:00 reactor webguy is trying to make himself feel strong.
17:00 harrison sure, i am annoying narcissistic and constantly offtopic, but i have roots here
17:01 Hirato currently in #minetest-politics, workers are complaining about their MESE rations being increased from 20 to 15 blocks a  week
17:01 harrison webguy just showed up no
17:01 Peacock copyright, copyleft political, vanessa shares her opinions on the US govt, jordach hopes the army will rise up.... a bit late to say no politics lol
17:01 harrison now
17:01 NakedFury joined #minetest
17:01 harrison and it may be the narcissism talking here, but he prolly showed up expressly to harass me
17:02 Peacock well posting a wall of text didn't help :P
17:02 harrison are we as a community going to tolerate webguy?
17:02 Peacock but i suspect he perceives you to be a nazi so he's got a hardon for you
17:02 Hirato he's still better than the tit who spammed in #sauerbraten, haha
17:02 harrison i don't like him like that
17:02 webguy harrison i'm http://greenprimary.europeangreens.eu/ not antifa
17:02 harrison i don't like you like that
17:03 Peacock not a literal hardon lol
17:03 Hirato just get married already, ffs
17:03 Peacock lol
17:03 webguy PLEASE could we leave poltics in #politics?
17:03 harrison the preceding chat included a metaphorical use of language. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metaphor
17:04 webguy harrison: sorry if i offended you, i dont like nazis and antifa either
17:04 Peacock webguy people have been talking politics for as long as i've been here :P you might as well ask people to compare hardware on #hardware, they still like to brag lol
17:04 harrison So, because you are lukewarm--neither hot nor cold--I am about to spit you out of my mouth.
17:05 harrison Revelation 3:16
17:05 reactor ?
17:05 reactor webguy: what are you trying to accomplish?
17:05 rubenwardy Please dont bring religion into here
17:06 proller specing, 34! also 153 total online players reached
17:06 harrison i was using it as a metaphor you insensitive clod
17:06 rubenwardy Doing the UI: http://ubuntuone.com/7BuxzGhX4wDjvcitMV62Kz (screenshot)
17:06 webguy reactor: i dont want to get in trouble with anyone of you i dont wanna talk bout politics i just wanted to talk about https://github.com/kripken/emscripten/wiki
17:07 harrison supposedly emscripten is a huge f***** hassle
17:07 webguy because i like the idea of MT  in a browser
17:07 harrison it is tempting but i myself have been counseled not to go down this road
17:07 Peacock MT in a plain client barely performs lol i can't imagine in a browser
17:07 anunakki joined #minetest
17:08 harrison “a collision at sea will ruin your entire day”
17:08 harrison ― Thucydides
17:08 reactor webguy: but I do wanna get in trouble with you.
17:08 harrison “It is frequently a misfortune to have very brilliant men in charge of affairs. They expect too much of ordinary men.”
17:08 harrison ― Thucydides
17:08 webguy reactor: me too
17:09 Peacock bow chika bow wow
17:09 harrison wob bam bood
17:09 kaeza rubenwardy, nope
17:09 harrison er, boom
17:09 Peacock lol
17:09 harrison wop bam boom
17:09 kaeza and the rewrite has no projectiles yet
17:09 kaeza pull requests welcome :)
17:09 webguy Peacock: Terasology is much heavier than minetest and it also runs in a browser, its written in java though, but emscripten does the same for c++
17:10 Peacock well there is a java plugin for browsers, as compared to C++/irrlicht and all that stuff
17:10 harrison i have never run Terasology in a browser -- but now that you mention it, it should do
17:10 webguy emscripten is the same for c++
17:10 webguy nearly
17:10 Peacock but hell even blockscape and space engineers are much heavier than both, running in a heavier OS (win7) and i still get better performance :/
17:11 harrison you are fairly intelligent for a leftist, webguy
17:11 webguy im not a leftist, harrison
17:11 harrison um, mmkay .....
17:11 webguy k, gotta go, bye
17:12 harrison don't let the door hit you on the way out
17:12 harrison well, that was uncomfortable
17:12 reactor This is embarassing.
17:12 reactor Where's the trouble he promised?
17:12 Peacock centre right lol i believe instead of paying people on welfare for having more kids, we should offer a basic guaranteed income to those who get spayed/neutered
17:12 harrison “We Greeks believe that a man who takes no part in public affairs is not merely lazy, but good for nothing”
17:12 harrison ― Thucydides
17:13 rubenwardy Please dont bring politics into here
17:13 rubenwardy left #minetest
17:13 rubenwardy joined #minetest
17:15 rubenwardy I am left, but I still think that the welfare state is OTT
17:15 Peacock OTT?
17:15 Peacock over the top?
17:16 rubenwardy yeah
17:16 Peacock well people have had since the 60's to learn to game the system, so it should be no surprise that's what they did
17:17 Peacock kudos to those who use it for a short while as was intended, but for those for whom it's a generational thing, we should be paying them to not have kids, instead of having more
17:19 rubenwardy It should be limited to two children, rather than none. By 'them' do you mean immigrants?
17:20 rsiska joined #minetest
17:20 Peacock them is anyone who claims welfare for years at a time
17:20 reactor Peacock: sane thought.
17:20 Peacock it's only in europe that immigrants can't claim welfare off the boat
17:20 reactor Those are freeloaders.
17:21 Peacock hell i claimed unemployment twice for 3 months each, i could barely live on it, and welfare is half that, why would anyone want to live on that?
17:22 rubenwardy What if they have a leg condition, and they can only do half time, which they can't live on by them self?
17:22 Peacock then they're on disability, not welfare
17:22 markveidemanis joined #minetest
17:22 rubenwardy uh?
17:22 rubenwardy ah ok
17:23 Peacock well here welfare isn;t the same as disability
17:23 Peacock nor is it the same as unemployment
17:23 Peacock disability = can't work, unemployment = can work, just lost a job, welfare = can work, been out of a job for a while
17:25 splash_ joined #minetest
17:25 Peacock when i was younger i literally cleaned shit off walks of bathroom stalls, so when people tell me why they're better off on welfare, i have a hard time empathizing lol
17:25 Peacock *walls
17:26 rubenwardy Thats what you meant
17:26 rubenwardy I agree
17:27 Peacock i've had some pretty friggin dirty jobs lol and even at those salaries i had big deductions, so i tend to run short on pity for people who refuse to do that kind of work lol
17:28 reactor markveidemanis: o/
17:28 Peacock instead we bring in illegals who don't even pay any income taxes at all, which only burdens legally working people on their taxes for those that won't work lol
17:32 Peacock though ruben, i feel even more sorry for the UK, i hear you guys are expecting waves of romanians soon
17:32 zat1 joined #minetest
17:32 rubenwardy yeah
17:32 rubenwardy As long as they work, it's fine
17:33 rubenwardy They tend to take farm jobs etc.
17:34 Peacock thats if the UKIP doesn't get in first
17:34 us{0gb joined #minetest
17:34 rubenwardy lol
17:34 rubenwardy The UKIP is like a fake party
17:35 Peacock still, if unemployment goes up, political fortunes could change
17:35 Peacock everyone thought the conservative party of canada was a joke until they won
17:35 Peacock (turns out they're a farce lol)
17:36 reactor faece?
17:36 Peacock beyond a joke :P
17:36 Peacock people wanted economically conservative, socially liberal, we got the opposite on both counts
17:38 Peacock at this point all we've got left to try is the NDP (not the same as the german NDP)
17:39 sapier we don't have a NDP in germany
17:39 splash_ left #minetest
17:40 Peacock ? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nati​onal_Democratic_Party_of_Germany
17:40 Peacock Nationaldemokratische Partei Deutschlands
17:40 sapier yes but their short name is NPD
17:41 Peacock switch the PD  lol same name in english/french, different policies
17:41 Peacock in germany it's right wing, here it's left wing
17:42 sapier bad people call them party of constitution defenders ... because german in country intelligence "verfassungsschutz" hat that many agents in there you couldn't even be sure there was any real member left
17:45 Peacock lol well im sure the occupy movement had just as many agents in there
17:45 SylvieLorxu joined #minetest
17:47 sapier occupy never got a big movement in germany ... there have only been some people in frakfurt(main) because of ezb headquaters beeing there
17:47 specing What is up with the v7 mapgen only spamming stone everywhere?
17:48 sapier v7 mapgen isn't finished yet don't expect it do do anything sane
17:48 iqualfragile specing: v7 mapgen depends on some luascript defining biomes
17:48 iqualfragile minetest_game does not do so yet
17:48 Hirato hurry up and fully migrate the mapgen to Lua!
17:49 iqualfragile Hirato: bad idea
17:49 Hirato why?
17:49 iqualfragile speed
17:49 Hirato LuaJit should take care of that
17:49 iqualfragile nope
17:50 sapier luajit + async may be fast enough, but that's yet to proove
17:50 iqualfragile especially as there are plans not to store generated blocks but just modifications
17:54 Peacock but is re-generating the same blocks faster than loading it?
17:54 Hirato if they can speed it up that much, that'd be awesome
17:55 Hirato i'm kidn of surprised little 8x8x8 blocks take as logn to generate as they do
17:55 djdduty joined #minetest
17:57 Hirato especially as I've thrown 5 threads at the emerge thing
17:58 sapier it's not a matter of number of threads if each thread has to wait for a single lock ;-)
17:58 sapier minetest core design isn't suitable for parallelism ... it's gradually improving last months
17:59 Hirato lol
17:59 Hirato silly minetest, why do you expose features that don't work
17:59 sapier as far as I know there is only one emerge thread
18:00 Calinou multithreaded mapgen does work, Hirato
18:00 Calinou but may have a few issues
18:00 Calinou some people may like to use it
18:00 sapier that's been mostly because it didn't work at all until recent jthread improvements
18:00 rubenwardy Hirato: 16x16x16 blocks
18:01 Hirato 4096 cubes isn't that many
18:01 Calinou that's a lot
18:01 djdduty_ joined #minetest
18:01 Calinou do you use any lua stuff that changes mapgen?
18:01 Calinou try to use as few as possible lua mapgen stuff...
18:02 sapier for time beeing assume you don't have any parallelity in mapgen
18:02 Anthony joined #minetest
18:02 Hirato I'd expect a CPU hexacore crunching at 3GHz to be able to pump out at least 100 a second
18:02 sapier I'd expect that too Hirato but sadly minetest doesn't really support this for now
18:03 NekoGloopMkII joined #minetest
18:03 Leoneof joined #minetest
18:04 john_cephalopoda joined #minetest
18:05 korr_ joined #minetest
18:05 ecube joined #minetest
18:06 NakedFury joined #minetest
18:06 Tiktalik joined #minetest
18:07 JackGruff joined #minetest
18:07 AndrewPH joined #minetest
18:09 NakedFury joined #minetest
18:09 Peacock joined #minetest
18:10 Peacock joined #minetest
18:10 rubenwardy wtf?
18:11 iqualfragile looks like a netspilt
18:11 Peacock with sprinkles?
18:11 kaeza netspit!
18:11 Calinou netspinkle
18:11 Calinou sprinkle*
18:11 ruskie joined #minetest
18:12 harrison the tracer parallelizes nearly perfectly
18:12 harrison in case anyone was about to ask
18:12 Peacock parallelograms?
18:12 NakedFury joined #minetest
18:13 harrison <sapier> minetest core design isn't suitable for parallelism ... it's gradually improving last months
18:13 harrison <harrison> the tracer parallelizes nearly perfectly
18:13 harrison i wish webguy would come back i thought of something clever to say to him
18:13 harrison jeu d'escalier i guess
18:14 PilzAdam joined #minetest
18:15 Peacock Heghlu'meH QaQ jajvam?
18:15 Megaf joined #minetest
18:15 harrison uh uh
18:15 Peacock what i thought
18:15 harrison was that cthuluese?
18:15 harrison uh oh
18:15 Peacock klingon
18:15 harrison oh good
18:15 harrison much less fightening
18:16 harrison frightening
18:16 Megaf joined #minetest
18:16 Guest25368 joined #minetest
18:16 Guest25368 wtf, why are services so slow?
18:16 Peacock on strike for better pay
18:16 rsiska joined #minetest
18:17 harrison that's what she said
18:17 Peacock in other news, cisoun has been further demoted from user to bot, he will process lolcat pictures
18:17 harrison rofl
18:17 * cisoun is still processing [######                      ] 42%...
18:18 Peacock lol
18:18 Peacock speaking of cats, dunno what's up with mine, ever since i put the christmas village up, she has a *thing* agains the trees
18:18 cisoun Are you talking about my forum status ?
18:19 Peacock on the web, no one knows you're a human XD
18:19 rubenwardy Guest25369: /nick <newname>
18:19 markveidemanis Hello Everyone!
18:19 cisoun I can't really work/play on minetest these days. Nouveau doesn't work since Linux 3.9 and Nvidia keeps crashing the game at random moments.
18:19 Peacock as for forums, who cares? half the active members are moderators now, pretty soon we'll be out of ordinary people to govern lol
18:19 cisoun I should try to reinstall Nouveau since Linux 3.12 tho.
18:20 harrison i remember our day in the cave cisoun
18:20 cisoun hell yeah
18:20 harrison i should have treasured those moments together
18:20 cisoun fuckin' good ol' days on Kray's server
18:20 harrison now only memories
18:20 Peacock nouveau = oss nividia driver?
18:20 Hirato The Mods Games; The Movie
18:20 Kray wat
18:20 cisoun I still got screenshots of these moments.
18:20 harrison cisoun 64 bit or 32 bit install?
18:20 cisoun 64
18:21 harrison why not try 32 instead? i bet the bug vanishes
18:21 cisoun Even the Nouveau guys couldn't understand my problem.
18:21 PilzAdam rubenwardy, what?
18:21 harrison [bitter xperience is talking]
18:21 cisoun 32 ? ohyou.jpg
18:21 rubenwardy ah, soz
18:21 Peacock you could always try the real nvidia driver, i know bill gates rapes starving african children everytime someone uses proprietary, but still :-)
18:22 cisoun I do have the official driver.
18:22 Peacock and still no dice?
18:22 harrison cisoun i had the same bug
18:22 cisoun Irrlicht seems to not like it.
18:22 harrison i think maybe
18:22 Peacock weird, my p4 has a relatively new nvidia card and minetest works fine on it :/
18:22 cisoun Suddenly, Xorg crashes and then, blank screen.
18:22 harrison try a 32bit install
18:22 cisoun ffffuuuuuuuuuuuuuu-
18:22 Peacock xorg crash? that is a rarity these days
18:22 Peacock thats like the BSOD
18:23 harrison ok, it happened to me, with minetest & terasology also,
18:23 harrison 64 bit, nouveau, recent kernel
18:23 Peacock you know you're living in evil spocks' universe when windows 7 works better than linux these days XD
18:23 harrison cisoun i feel yr pain
18:24 cisoun i feel ya bra
18:24 harrison prevert
18:24 cisoun no homo bra
18:24 Peacock lol
18:24 Peacock homo bras
18:24 Peacock how do those work?
18:24 harrison bra like brassiere or bra like bro?
18:24 cisoun bro
18:25 harrison today on donahue: lesbian dog bras: should they be mandatory?
18:25 PilzAdam rubenwardy, can you add to the faq that the arch build seems to be broken (https://forum.minetest.net/vie​wtopic.php?pid=121063#p121063) and that self compiling helps?
18:25 PilzAdam also whoever maintains the wiki FAQ ^
18:26 Peacock which of the 12 wikis? and is there one wiki to rule them all? XD
18:26 Peacock to edit the wiki you must pass the gates of Mordor
18:26 sapier Peacock: #13 of course
18:26 Peacock yall realize yesterday was Friday the 13th of 2013?
18:27 harrison 666
18:27 reactor 666 \m/
18:27 john_cephalopoda yall realize we missed 13-3-7?
18:27 harrison 1488+666=2013
18:27 PilzAdam john_cephalopoda, no, I was there
18:27 reactor What happened in 1488?
18:27 PilzAdam was quite leet
18:27 PilzAdam reactor, it was the end of the world
18:28 reactor What kind of?
18:28 john_cephalopoda I once wikipedia'd 1337. Not much happened back then. Just some rich people being born.
18:28 reactor Also, what happened in the year (1488-666)?
18:28 john_cephalopoda http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v23VIXukXxY
18:28 john_cephalopoda reactor: that
18:29 reactor !title
18:29 MinetestBot reactor: 666 - D.E.V.I.L - YouTube
18:29 PilzAdam reactor, that was also the end of the world
18:29 reactor PilzAdam: citation needed.
18:29 john_minetest joined #minetest
18:29 Calinou joined #minetest
18:29 reactor john_minetest: error processing the link.
18:29 PilzAdam "In 822  the world eneded" – Obama
18:29 PilzAdam ^ reactor
18:30 Peacock eneded lol
18:30 john_minetest reactor: Must be BSD
18:30 harrison http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8l4FRjxfcho
18:30 reactor john_minetest: it's me.
18:30 reactor !title
18:30 PilzAdam Peacock, yea, Obama is quite a lazy typer
18:30 MinetestBot reactor: 666 - Paradoxx Megamix - Echenique Mix (SHORT EDIT) - YouTube
18:30 Peacock BSD = Bondage, Sadism, Domination?
18:30 reactor Peacock: yes.
18:30 harrison terrible techno music
18:30 Peacock thought so
18:30 reactor You can join anytime.
18:30 reactor I fvorgot to mention it's also fun.
18:30 reactor s/fv/f/
18:30 Peacock i guess linux takes care of the Masochism bit lol
18:31 harrison http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Y2Q2BkqGfw
18:31 reactor It does, believe me, it does.
18:31 john_minetest Peacock: BSD = Bundesverband Sexuelle Dienstleistungen
18:31 harrison now that is not techno
18:31 * reactor slaps john_minetest
18:31 reactor Enough.
18:31 reactor It's an operating system, from Berkley. Aight?
18:31 john_minetest reactor: You started the hate.
18:31 reactor You did.
18:31 reactor I only said "error".
18:32 reactor Which was my fault, not the system's.
18:32 reactor So BSD is not to blame.
18:32 Peacock lol association of whorehouses
18:32 john_minetest You are against men liking a kid TV series.
18:32 reactor Also, who said whorehouses are bad?
18:32 john_minetest Peacock: Exactly
18:32 john_minetest reactor: Nobody.
18:33 reactor As discussed earlier, at least whores honestly, directly require money for their job, so you can actually count it.
18:33 john_minetest Whores don't have to be honest.
18:34 Peacock of course not, look at politicians
18:34 reactor They don't have to be. But the principle is.
18:34 john_minetest And if you go to a restaurant you can also count your money. And waiters are quite honest I think.
18:34 reactor Besides, getting to screw a ho is cheaper than getting to screw a non-ho.
18:34 Peacock unless they got a cardscanner
18:35 Peacock seriously, child support, alimony, at least the whore is upfront
18:35 harrison can you pay with bitgroin?
18:35 markveidemanis https://forum.minetest.net/vi​ewtopic.php?pid=97182#p97182
18:35 reactor john_minetest: I'm not against men liking kid TV series.
18:35 Calinou joined #minetest
18:35 john_minetest harrison: You should ask every whore you meet if you can pay with bitcoin, lol :D
18:35 reactor I'm against men liking kid series AND trying to get other men to like kid TV series.
18:35 Peacock bronies?
18:36 reactor Exactly.
18:36 harrison your mom said no
18:36 john_minetest reactor: No.
18:36 reactor Yes.
18:36 Peacock they're kinda weird yeah
18:36 sapier I'm against ppl beeing against beeing against something ;-P
18:36 john_minetest reactor: I have never met a bronie who wanted to get me to like that series, too.
18:36 Peacock not the kind of people you'd want leading boy scout troops lol
18:36 damir__ joined #minetest
18:36 john_minetest reactor: But I have met somebody (you), who wanted to get me to like BSD.
18:37 reactor I'm not trying to get anyone to like it.
18:37 PilzAdam is BSD a kids series?
18:37 Peacock well how's that different from persistent linux advocates?
18:37 Tux[Qyou] joined #minetest
18:37 reactor And yean, right, PilzAdam.
18:37 Peacock or trisquell advocates for that matter
18:37 john_minetest Being a fan of BSD is the same as being fan of a kids series.
18:37 reactor I merely stated that I use it, and explained why I use it.
18:37 john_minetest I merely stated (hundereds of times) that I am no brony but I accept bronies.
18:38 harrison spoken like a cryptobrony
18:38 rubenwardy Where should I add the arch thing on the wiki?
18:38 reactor If you want to stop hearinf about BSD, stop asking about BSD.
18:38 reactor s/inf/ing/
18:38 john_minetest reactor: I never asked about BSD
18:38 PilzAdam rubenwardy, http://wiki.minetest.net/FAQ
18:38 NakedFury we need a bot that blocks any conversation about bsd
18:38 rubenwardy I know, where on the page?
18:38 kaeza guise can we please stop with the random hate?
18:38 kaeza Windows is the best OS
18:38 Megaf PilzAdam, someone should really do a thing to undo rollbacks
18:38 john_minetest rubenwardy: What is about Arch?
18:38 reactor john_minetest: funny. My logs show otherwise.
18:39 Peacock lol whats wrong with BSD (i dont use it)
18:39 rubenwardy <PilzAdam> rubenwardy, can you add to the faq that the arch build seems to be broken (https://forum.minetest.net/vie​wtopic.php?pid=121063#p121063) and that self compiling helps
18:39 reactor Nothing, really. It's just john_minetest trying to pick on me because I dislike MLP.
18:39 john_minetest Peacock: Nothing. Only that reactor always says that it is better.
18:39 PilzAdam rubenwardy, 6.3 Linux
18:39 Peacock consider freetards annoy windows users to no end about linux, it's pretty hypocritical to bitch about people pushing BSD lol
18:39 PilzAdam (you have to add that section=
18:39 PilzAdam *)
18:40 Peacock *considering
18:40 john_minetest consider jehova's wittneses annoy normal people to no end about got, it's pretty hypocritical to bitch about people pushing MLP lol
18:40 reactor Most of those "freetards" are hippies, barely knowing any technical details of what is under the hood.
18:40 john_minetest *god
18:40 rubenwardy http://wiki.minetest.net/FAQ#Problems_on_Arch
18:40 reactor *myg0t
18:40 Peacock jehova's already annoy the fuck out of me, but people object when i call freetards proselytizers lol
18:41 PilzAdam rubenwardy, I guess that works
18:41 rubenwardy Maybe "Problems on Arch - menu is broken"
18:41 PilzAdam its not only the menu
18:41 Leoneof joined #minetest
18:41 Peacock reactor, indeed, freetards = more political than technical
18:41 rubenwardy Is this easier to read? http://wiki.minetest.net/User:Rubenwardy/FAQ
18:42 john_minetest As I said, I know several bronies and none of them ever wanted to get me to like MLP.
18:42 Peacock the same kind that killed amiga/os2 lol
18:42 john_minetest Actually they never talk about it.
18:42 PilzAdam rubenwardy, not really
18:42 john_minetest ----
18:43 reactor After all, I have used all of the three systems.
18:43 reactor And I do think I have right to judge them now.
18:44 reactor Whether to accept my thoughts is up to you.
18:44 john_minetest I don't think that BSD is bad.
18:44 reactor And I'm not saying more than I'm asked on that topic for quite a while.
18:44 john_minetest reactor: But you were saying a lot about bronies instead.
18:45 bas080 joined #minetest
18:45 john_minetest Let's just dump that discussion, it leads nowhere.
18:45 reactor Okay, back to bronies.
18:45 reactor I don't quite like the tendency.
18:45 john_minetest Their tendency to like a kids TV series?
18:46 reactor It leads otherwise healthy men to nothere.
18:46 reactor s/there/where/
18:46 Peacock bronies = pedos
18:46 john_minetest Lol.
18:46 john_minetest And black people steal bikes and americans are all shooting retards and germans and nazis...
18:46 Peacock i means its alright if youre a kid boy who watches MLP, that just means your gay, but a grown man? cmon
18:46 john_minetest Just stop those stupid prejudices.
18:47 harrison have you ever owned a bike in chicago?
18:47 Peacock ever parked a car in the bronx?
18:47 harrison no, but i always wanted to
18:47 Leoneof joined #minetest
18:47 reactor It's alright if you're a kid boy and watch it, but it's not if you're a grown up.
18:47 john_minetest I left a car unlocked in poland by accident. It wasn't stolen. In germany there are less nazis as anywhere on the world.
18:47 harrison i tried to watch an mlp once it didn't catch my fancy
18:47 harrison i prefer pearlie
18:48 john_minetest I never watched MLP.
18:48 reactor Even women watching MLP would cause me to be suspicious.
18:48 harrison http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pearlie
18:48 harrison unfortunately there are only about 30 halfhour pearlie episodes
18:48 john_minetest reactor: So adults liking stuff for children are "ill" to you?
18:48 Peacock http://www.haaretz.com/jewish-w​orld/jewish-world-news/1.561781
18:49 harrison once you memorize those it is all repeats
18:49 Peacock even in germany it's still kicking, so imagine the rest of the world lol
18:49 john_minetest Peacock: There are much more nazis in america but nobody ever reports about it because nobody would believe it.
18:49 harrison beate zchaepe
18:49 harrison the ulrike meinhof of our day
18:50 whiskers75 joined #minetest
18:50 john_minetest And there are so many people from the gouvernment in those nazi groups... I bet they only do that stuff so they don't become unemployed :D
18:50 reactor john_minetest: development delay.
18:50 whiskers75 I found a fastbreak bug.
18:50 Peacock well you dont hear about it there, but we know they're active
18:50 reactor john_minetest: might explain it.
18:50 harrison see http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0765432/
18:50 harrison great movie
18:50 john_minetest reactor: Model trains are for children. Adults like them. Boobs are for children. Adults like them.
18:51 Peacock http://www.cbsnews.com/news/white-supremac​ist-trying-to-turn-town-into-aryan-haven/
18:51 whiskers75 Basically, with client editing, you can break all unprotected blocks on any server without nocheat in 0 seconds/block
18:51 harrison lay off craig cobb already
18:51 john_minetest harrison: My father was at a military base when the Baader Meinhof people set up a bomb. Nobody was in that building so nothing serious happened.
18:52 harrison but did you see the film?
18:52 reactor john_minetest: boobs are mostly for adults
18:52 john_minetest reactor: boobs are for feeding small babies.
18:52 reactor john_minetest: the milk glands are smaller than boobs
18:52 reactor So milk could be produced without boobs, actually.
18:52 john_minetest harrison: No, I didn't see the film yet.
18:52 reactor Anatomy.
18:52 Leoneof joined #minetest
18:52 harrison udderly fascinating; do go on
18:53 Peacock no point in discussing boobs in a community that might as well be a sausage festival, unless V would like to weight in
18:53 reactor As for model trains, depends. Maybe someone's an engineer?
18:53 harrison do you know who financed the RAF?
18:53 Peacock royal air force?
18:53 reactor Yay! Sausages!
18:54 harrison red army faction
18:54 harrison http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0765432/
18:54 john_minetest reactor: Model trains are EPIC. It is like minetest. You can see everything. Play god. Do what you imagine.
18:54 harrison Germany in the 1970s: Murderous bomb attacks, the threat of terrorism and the fear of the enemy inside are rocking the very foundations of the yet fragile German democracy. The radicalised children of the Nazi generation lead by Andreas Baader, Ulrike Meinhof and Gudrun Ensslin are fighting a violent war against what they perceive as the new face of fascism: American imperialism supported by the German establishment, many of whom have a
18:54 harrison Nazi past. Their aim is to create a more human society but by employing inhuman means they not only spread terror and bloodshed, they also lose their own humanity. The man who understands them is also their hunter: the head of the German police force Horst Herold. And while he succeeds in his relentless pursuit of the young terrorists, he knows he's only dealing with the tip of the iceberg
18:54 reactor john_minetest: aight.
18:54 john_minetest Red Army Faction (RAF) -> Lol, as if not enough would have the letters "RAF"... Royal AirForce, Rutan Aircraft Factory, ...
18:55 Peacock http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Gladio
18:56 harrison Peacock: interesting
18:57 john_minetest Anyways: Have you got read any good books? I have to make a list of books I want for christmas but I don't know which ones might be good.
18:57 reactor ?
18:57 reactor Which topic?
18:58 john_minetest any
18:58 Leoneof joined #minetest
18:58 harrison http://www.amazon.com/Fourth-Political​-Theory-Alexander-Dugin/dp/1907166653
18:58 reactor Eric Berne. The games people play; The people who play the games.
18:59 harrison http://www.amazon.com/Genius-Creativity-Pr​oblems-Behavioural-Sciences/dp/0521485088
19:00 harrison http://www.amazon.com/The-Ecological-Ap​proach-Visual-Perception/dp/0898599598
19:01 john_minetest hmmm
19:01 harrison do NOT read this one http://www.amazon.com/Vision-Computati​onal-Investigation-Representation-Info​rmation/dp/0262514621/ref=pd_sim_b_4
19:01 harrison marr was an idiot imo
19:01 harrison actually a lot of people are imo
19:02 Leoneof joined #minetest
19:03 john_minetest Lol, all books about game programming use Visual C++ 2008
19:03 harrison gay programmin
19:03 harrison g
19:03 reactor Indeed.
19:03 rubenwardy Don't be homophobic
19:03 reactor Don't read those, mate. Start from K&R.
19:04 john_minetest I think I will not buy any programming books.
19:04 harrison Who ya calling homophobic sailor?
19:04 PilzAdam rubenwardy, who is homophobic?
19:04 reactor Sane statement.
19:04 rubenwardy <harrison> gay programming
19:04 reactor "Only faggots and sailors have that name"
19:04 PilzAdam in fact, it seems like rubenwardy is homophobic since he brought it up
19:04 us{0gb Yeah, I was talking to a gay guy yesterday. The overwhelming homophobia in our society is really eating at him.
19:04 Jordach joined #minetest
19:04 PilzAdam there is nothing wrong in using the word "gay"
19:04 rubenwardy I dont think I am
19:05 john_minetest I once had a game programming book but when I was old enough to understand it, it was outdated because delphi.
19:05 PilzAdam rubenwardy, then why did you say it?
19:05 rubenwardy Because he is describing something as homosexual
19:05 PilzAdam do you also say "Dont be heterophobic" when someone says "straight"?
19:05 MinetestBot GIT: Novatux commited to minetest/minetest_game: Check for area protection in buckets e8bcfdcd0e 2013-12-14T10:51:07-08:00 http://git.io/takzMQ
19:05 john_minetest Gay programming = happy programming
19:05 us{0gb Using the word "gay" to mean something negative is hurtful to gay people, PilzAdam.
19:05 john_minetest Gay means happy
19:05 rubenwardy not any more john_minetest
19:05 Hirato you seem a fruity
19:06 john_minetest Enola gay was the mother of one of the pilots.
19:06 PilzAdam us{0gb, how is "gay programming" negative?
19:06 harrison we must not be niggardly in our response to those who ask for our help in condemning homophobia and suppressing incorrect thought and speech
19:06 Hirato some people might think you''re acting a bit queer
19:06 harrison holocaust jokes are not funny
19:06 harrison anne frankly, i don't tell them
19:06 whirm joined #minetest
19:06 Hirato dammit, ninja'd
19:07 us{0gb PilzAdam: What is meant by "gay programming"? Are you saying that was meant in a positive way?
19:07 harrison http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Gay_Science
19:07 Peacock who said what now? i was having a wicked slash after my last beer lol
19:07 Hirato he's obviously just taking the bitbucket methodology of spooning to heart
19:07 PilzAdam us{0gb, it was neither negative nor positive against gay people; its just similiar to "game"
19:08 harrison What if some day or night a demon were to steal after you into your loneliest loneliness and say to you: 'This life as you now live it and have lived it, you will have to live once more and innumerable times more' [...] Would you not throw yourself down and gnash your teeth and curse the demon who spoke thus? Or have you once experienced a tremendous moment when you would have answered him: 'You are a god and never have I heard anything
19:08 harrison more divine.'
19:08 PilzAdam Peacock, you said that you hate gay people
19:08 Peacock gay = gaming? admittedly, theres a huge proportion of guys playing online games lol
19:08 us{0gb My apologies then.
19:08 Peacock i did? when was that
19:08 PilzAdam dunno, you asked "who said what now?" so I answered
19:08 harrison right after you posted that goatse link
19:08 PilzAdam (it was meant as a joke, btw)
19:08 Peacock well how could i have said that if i was taking a piss?
19:09 Peacock aaah lol
19:09 harrison all_of_you: I feel offended by your recent action(s). Please read http://stop-irc-bullying.eu/stop
19:09 Peacock im not one of those types who goes on the phone/laptop in the WC lol
19:09 PilzAdam by your reaction one could think that you often say things that you dont remember afterwards, though
19:09 harrison because that would seem gay?
19:09 reactor harrison: No.
19:09 reactor start-irc-bullying.
19:10 Peacock admittedly, i mock people here more than i could possibly remember in one sitting lol
19:10 PilzAdam harrison, I feel offended by your recent action(s), please read: http://start-irc-bullying.eu/start
19:11 Peacock but then, if people are going to make it easy... lol
19:11 harrison right, it would almost be insulting them to not insult them
19:11 john_minetest
19:11 john_minetest
19:12 john_minetest .
19:12 tishka joined #minetest
19:13 Exio4 PilzAdam: wrong.
19:13 Exio4 PilzAdam: You have potential, boy. Please read http://start-irc-bullying.eu/start
19:13 Exio4 there
19:13 * us{0gb wonders what kind of community this place is ...
19:13 rubenwardy *#* added to ignore list.
19:13 rubenwardy lol
19:14 reactor .|. added to ignore list
19:14 rubenwardy '.' :Erroneous Nickname
19:14 Weedy_lappy joined #minetest
19:14 Weedy_lappy joined #minetest
19:14 harrison a composer who lived in granada
19:15 whiskers75 joined #minetest
19:15 harrison fell i love with an organist's daughter
19:15 harrison she refused to be hosed
19:15 Peacock ogb well geeks are by nature antisocial, thats why they call their online groupings communities, to belong to something, even if it's anything but lol
19:15 harrison so he left and composed
19:15 harrison a onehanded organ sonata
19:15 john_minetest WUT?!? FREAKIN $186.00 FOR A STUPID BOOK?
19:15 us{0gb Anti-, or just un-? THere is a difference.
19:15 whirm joined #minetest
19:16 harrison such is the price of genius -- an isolated lifestyle
19:16 Peacock well considering how much people bitch about society and the economy, i'd say more antisocial than unsocial
19:16 harrison that is my excuse, anyway
19:16 harrison but how about you gus?
19:16 harrison guys?
19:17 us{0gb In school, I was labeled as the antisocial child. But I was never antisocial, just unsocial. I still am.
19:17 rubenwardy I'm not weird, I am enlightened.
19:17 Peacock thats like saying "im not fat i'm big-boned" lol
19:17 john_minetest Operating Systems Design and Implementation is way too expensive.
19:17 Peacock no one buys that either lol
19:18 reactor harrison: nerd != genius
19:18 rubenwardy genius is proportional to nerd.
19:18 reactor No.
19:18 rubenwardy na
19:19 reactor john_minetest: there are old versions of that paper available online
19:19 reactor probably even new
19:19 john_minetest reactor: You mean pirated?
19:19 reactor just have to search longer
19:19 reactor Why not.
19:19 john_minetest One of my principles is to use no pirated software.
19:19 john_minetest And not pirating books or similar.
19:20 Peacock extend that principal and you've got trisquell
19:20 harrison john_minetest: you have become tedious
19:20 Peacock where you have to make due with ascii pron since flash is evil lol
19:20 john_minetest If I don't like something I won't buy it. When I like it I should support the maker. Easy as that.
19:20 reactor It's not the maker you support.
19:21 reactor It's the printing lab.
19:25 john_minetest I think that a book for 200$ isn't just the price for printing.
19:25 Peacock you'd think opensourcers would be pro-piracy, after all, book and movie makers make shit once and charge in perpetuity
19:25 reactor Besides, the end justifies the means.
19:25 Peacock not at all like software devs who don't even deserve to paid once apparently lol
19:26 john_minetest A computer magazine with 3 dvds is 3€ for windows magazines and 10€ for linux/sysadmin magazines.
19:26 reactor If there's a freely available copy someone put, why not use it?
19:26 john_minetest It seems the book is crap anyways.
19:26 reactor It's the pirate who's gonna be responsible, anyway.
19:26 SylvieLorxu joined #minetest
19:26 john_minetest reactor: The downloader is the criminal.
19:26 john_minetest Except in switzerland.
19:26 john_minetest :D
19:26 reactor You can't know for sure unless you looked yourself, that's what pirated copies are for, anyway.
19:27 john_minetest In switzerland you can download anything. The one who put it up is responsible.
19:27 john_minetest So everybody move ther!
19:27 john_minetest *there
19:27 reactor I would be glad to.
19:28 jin_xi joined #minetest
19:31 john_minetest Why don't you?
19:31 john_minetest We live in an open world. Except for america.
19:32 john_minetest You never get in there except when you are mexican.
19:34 john_minetest Or have the will to fill out hundereds of forms, undress, be X-rayed 12 times, be full-body-scanned 10 other times, fill out 2000 other forms, get brainwashed and then you fill out 10 other forms, make a DNA test, another one just to make sure, fill out 3 other forms, go to prison because suspected terrorist, get out again and THEN: Welcome to america.
19:34 Taoki Clip's server has to be the most active one at this day. Testing +20 users. Sadly it seems laggy, though it could be just connection
19:35 noko4loko joined #minetest
19:35 noko4loko left #minetest
19:38 noko4loko joined #minetest
19:39 noko4loko left #minetest
19:40 meldrian joined #minetest
19:41 MinetestBot GIT: ShadowNinja commited to minetest/minetest_game: Shorten lines in bucket and support nil placers 4ea001fa37 2013-12-14T11:39:48-08:00 http://git.io/mJf_AQ
19:41 Leoneof joined #minetest
19:47 Leoneof joined #minetest
19:49 Peacock well john, it's easy to hate on america, but their economy is still doing better than the EU's :P how many countries have you bailed out so far?
19:50 Peacock not to mention the Ukraine, whoever wins that prize, it's gonna cost them an arm and a leg
19:51 Calinou joined #minetest
19:54 ImQ009 joined #minetest
19:55 john_minetest Peacock: Somebody famous got it right: Bin Laden won.
19:55 john_minetest The world is in chaos. Look what happens at the american borders to normal people like you and me.
19:55 Taoki PilzAdam: Hanging around on Clip's server now, where there are +20 people. I'm not sure if it might be the connection, but it seems the world is barely loading and any interaction (like opening doors) takes minutes.
19:56 Taoki Is this because of the high numbers of users? Should that cause such lag?
19:56 PilzAdam dunno
19:56 PilzAdam why do you ask me?
19:57 Leoneof joined #minetest
19:57 Taoki You're one of the core develpoers, so I thought you might know. Could be a problem wirth considering if it's the user count
19:57 john_minetest Peacock: http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/weird-n​ews/osama-bin-laden-won-top-2674274
19:59 rubenwardy My node box editor is running at 30 fps D:
19:59 rubenwardy 50% of core 1
20:03 Peacock well i liken the current period in the US to the McCarthy era, it will pass
20:04 Leoneof joined #minetest
20:04 Peacock and you forget, many european agencies are complicit in NSA spying
20:05 Peacock so  you may believe you're more free, but that's only because none of your own brave countrymen have come forward in a similar fashion as snowden, and snowden already revealed plenty about how other countries cooperate
20:06 Calinou hi Taoki
20:06 Calinou rubenwardy, you should limit its FPS by the way, make it use vsync
20:06 Calinou or if you don't know how, limit it to 61 FPS
20:06 rubenwardy I am
20:06 Calinou thanks
20:06 Taoki hi
20:14 MinetestBot GIT: BlockMen commited to minetest/minetest: Add alpha setting to font shadow 9772322613 2013-12-14T12:11:38-08:00 http://git.io/w4iXNw
20:27 Jordach meow
20:28 Leoneof joined #minetest
20:28 * Calinou puts a pony on Jordach's head
20:29 * Jordach grumbles about ponies
20:31 Peacock jordach's not allowed to touch ponies, not since the incident in the public restroom ... :P
20:31 * john_minetest puts a kitten on Jordach's head
20:32 Jordach grr
20:32 * Jordach cuddles MinetestBot
20:34 rubenwardy bye all
20:34 VanessaE what's wrong with ponies? :(
20:35 * rubenwardy only needs to do an hour or two more on the node box editor before it can be released
20:37 Calinou don't you commit your code changes to some repo?
20:38 Peacock naw he mails them into github via DHL :P
20:39 rubenwardy I am doing a big rewrite, and I will only commit when it is back in working condition :P
20:39 rubenwardy bye
20:39 Calinou ok
20:40 rubenwardy !tell rubenwardy <msg> if you have anything else to say :P
20:40 Jordach VanessaE: just, no
20:41 PilzAdam !tell rubenwardy I dont have anything else to say
20:41 MinetestBot PilzAdam: I'll pass that on when rubenwardy is around
20:41 Leoneof joined #minetest
20:43 kaeza joined #minetest
20:46 sapier !tell rubenwardy I don't have anything to say too
20:46 MinetestBot sapier: I'll pass that on when rubenwardy is around
20:47 Leoneof joined #minetest
20:50 john_minetest Hey, what do you think about this idea: https://gist.github.com/jmf/a483a68dec4ba2c31e55 ?
20:52 john_minetest Jordach: Hah, you are here!
20:52 Jordach ..............
20:52 PilzAdam hi #2
20:55 Leoneof joined #minetest
20:56 Peacock Number One, I order you to take a #2
20:56 harrison <john_minetest>...normal people like you and me.
20:57 Peacock http://youtu.be/Rh17jKL0DfA
20:57 PilzAdam !title
20:57 MinetestBot PilzAdam: Beavis and Butthead - Star Trek - YouTube
20:57 harrison I am pretty sure that no more than one of us is normal. If you are that implies I am not and vice versa.
20:58 harrison (responding to <john_minetest>... normal people like you and me.)
20:58 harrison [14:11:01] <Taoki> .... Could be a problem wirth considering ....
20:59 harrison You aren't fit to mention that name Taoki
20:59 harrison you can't handle the Wirth
21:00 PilzAdam http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wirth
21:00 Peacock the girth>
21:00 Peacock *?
21:00 Calinou but he can handle ponies, unlike you
21:00 PilzAdam which one of these, harrison?
21:00 * PilzAdam handles a pony on Calinou's head
21:01 harrison um, which one has Taoki this very day rejected and insulted by refusing to install an oberon-based os?
21:01 Taoki harrison: I'm insulting someone because I'm not installing an operating system on my machinbe, which I haven't even heard of? Cool
21:02 Taoki I wonder who here would install an OS because someone on IRC tells them to
21:02 Peacock wtf is oberon? last i heard it was a planet in star trek
21:02 Leoneof joined #minetest
21:02 harrison http://www.miamiherald.com/2013/12/14/381​7983/ohio-study-heavy-online-use-can.html
21:03 harrison quack quack quack away
21:03 PilzAdam harrison, I feel offended by your recent action(s). Please read http://stop-irc-bullying.eu/stop
21:03 harrison i am deeply sorry if i have stepped on any feathers
21:04 * Taoki is just confused by some of harrison's reactions to say the least
21:05 harrison make way for f****lings
21:05 harrison http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Journalism/2013/12/1​4/arapahoe-gunman-ripped-republicans-on-facebook
21:05 sapier1 joined #minetest
21:05 Taoki Seriously. You're the admin of what seems to be a very interesting project (the one with raytrace lighting). Yet now you're almost acting like an everyday troll. I don't get people any more...
21:05 harrison the shooter considered himself a keynesian and wanted to kill his debate coach
21:06 harrison admin lol
21:06 Taoki Creator, whatever
21:06 harrison i am the whole thing
21:06 Taoki yeah
21:06 daswort joined #minetest
21:06 harrison due to the abject failure on my part to entice any recruits
21:06 harrison no matter how i try to charm
21:07 harrison you hurt me Taoki
21:07 Taoki I'm surprised someone with such programming knowledge and perhaps tallent acts this way. And somewhat saddened. But that's all for me to say
21:07 harrison i thought you might be the one
21:07 harrison sniff
21:08 harrison i was never a natural troll
21:08 harrison i had to come to trolling late in life and work hard at it
21:08 Taoki Can't say the same. Long since anything taking place online has hurt me. But I have an overall disappointment. Which is like an ocean, that you put only a drop into
21:09 Taoki oh well
21:09 harrison your loss
21:10 harrison what, you want me to believe that if i was "nice" that you would magically become helpful and play coding with me? lucy and the football
21:10 harrison you hit a hard limit and dropped out
21:11 harrison don't mention wirth and i won't troll you again
21:13 Taoki harrison: If you think you need to be nice only to get people to do something you want (like coding with you), you aren't ever being nice... just pretending.
21:13 Taoki I try to be nice, but not to get people to do things
21:13 harrison We have a winner ladies and gentlemen!
21:13 Taoki Thanks :)
21:14 PilzAdam the winner is PilzAdam
21:14 harrison I don't try to be nice and don't wish to be nice. I can't help it sometimes, though.
21:14 harrison But I try to suppress it.
21:14 Taoki Also, that explains why you aren't getting a team for your project, like you mentioned. I don't believe you are making them feel comfortable and willing to work with you.
21:14 MinetestBot I can approve that the winner is PilzAdam
21:15 harrison Really? I have a new theory about you now Taoki
21:15 * pitriss can approve it too. Winner is PA
21:15 Taoki Nice
21:16 harrison Maybe you are friends with slash a sockpuppet of webguy
21:16 Taoki Don't think I know who that is
21:16 harrison Well, you would have to say that wouldn't you?
21:17 Renoki joined #minetest
21:17 harrison interesting -- in fact you left this morning before webguy showed up and came back after he left
21:17 harrison funny about that
21:18 Taoki If webguy is an user, I don't know him
21:18 harrison So, in conclusion, Taoki, I would like to say to you:
21:19 harrison Your mind tricks will not work on me, Jedi
21:19 Taoki Funny, was thinking the same way about you
21:20 kaeza Taoki, you are giving out too much food; save some for someone that deserves it
21:20 Taoki Although I don't fully understand either what upset you or some of the things you are talking about
21:20 Taoki kaeza: Yeah, that's a correct observation
21:21 Leoneof joined #minetest
21:21 Taoki Pretty much all there was for me to say on this
21:22 PilzAdam !next
21:22 MinetestBot Another satisfied customer. Next!
21:25 john_minetest There should be a new meme like the FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUU one just that it says: "ffffffff817923e8"
21:29 john_minetest http://cdn.memegenerator.net​/instances/500x/43865693.jpg
21:32 Taoki FFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU...*blue screen of death*
21:32 PilzAdam Taoki, windows user?
21:32 Taoki Linux. In this case it would be "kernel panic"
21:33 PilzAdam nono, on windows "blue screen" is something that happens happens with 80% at boot
21:33 PilzAdam a kernel panic in Linux hapens almost never
21:34 Taoki Oh, yeah. The blue screen is just an addition to the Windows boot screen :)
21:34 Taoki And it happens almost never for most people. I get one after any 3-4 days of uptime. Still trying to figure out the cause
21:36 Warr10241 joined #minetest
21:37 us{0gb Maybe the kernel wouldn't panic if you didn't sneak up behind it quietly and pounce on it. Just a thought.
21:37 Warr1024 joined #minetest
21:37 Warr1024 Hey, does anyone know a way in a mod or game to be able to make the player invincible?
21:37 Warr1024 set_armor_groups({immortal=1}) ain't workin' for me.
21:38 harrison more like immoral=666
21:38 us{0gb Yeah, the API doesn't allow protection against client-side damage yet.
21:38 Taoki us{0gb: I'm suspecting my Radeon card might be pouncing it and giving it scares :)
21:38 PilzAdam Warr1024, set snappy and fleshy to 0
21:39 Taoki Or a BIOS setting
21:39 us{0gb Taoki: Yeah, probably.
21:39 Warr1024 will that protect against fall and lava damage too?
21:39 PilzAdam no
21:39 us{0gb No. Fall and lava damage are client-side. You can't protect against them.
21:40 Warr1024 ok, then I guess I'm already doing the best I can.  I've got a globalstep to restore health.
21:40 Warr1024 It means players get an annoying "you died, respawn" popup they just have to dismiss.
21:40 PilzAdam set hp to 0 and dont let the player die
21:40 us{0gb Yeah, that's all you can do for now.
21:40 Warr1024 oh, how do you set the hp to 0 without letting the player die?
21:41 Warr1024 something in builtin I have to hack?
21:41 PilzAdam I guess thats not possible without enable_damage=false in conf
21:41 Warr1024 oh, hm.
21:41 Warr1024 I guess I could just set that :-)
21:41 Warr1024 though I was hoping that I'd be able to do this independent of conf.
21:41 Warr1024 i.e. there'd be no reason to enable damage in this game type.
21:43 Warr1024 oh, neat, I can minetest.setting_set() it on startup.  Hacky, but works for my purposes.
21:43 Warr1024 thanks
21:43 Peacock jesus it's ball-dropping cold outside
21:44 harrison Thanks for sharing.
21:45 Peacock as always :D
21:46 harrison http://www.foxnews.com/politics/20​13/12/14/ex-staffer-for-sen-alexan​der-seeks-release-in-porn-charges
21:46 Warr1024 nice headline
21:46 harrison If he hadn't sought release in the first place he would never have been arrested
21:47 harrison rimshot
21:47 Peacock lol gotta love the americans, so puritanical, yet the worlds' biggest consumers of porn
21:47 harrison never touch the stuff myself
21:47 harrison well, softcore tentacle hentai, but only with the mrs
21:48 Peacock im into sadism myself, cheese graters, hot candle wax, jumper cables to my balls, that sortof thing
21:48 harrison the "porn" inthe link is very pedobearesque stuff apparently
21:48 Warr1024 americans are not the most puritanical, nor the biggest consumers, though those two things do seem to be correlated in general...
21:49 Peacock well right wingers tend to be the most anti-drug and anti-porn, though they're also the ones you hear about the most in the media in regards to drugs or prostitution charges
21:50 harrison right wingers lol
21:50 harrison your idea of right and left amuses us
21:50 Peacock lefties are the ones caught up in corruption scandals :P
21:51 harrison "hear about the most in the media"
21:51 Peacock well for me it's the law of inverse relevance, the more people talk about/against something, the more i'm inclined to think they do the opposite lol
21:52 harrison you think "conservatives" are rightwing
21:52 Peacock hardly
21:52 Peacock conservatives and liberals are both economically liberal, the only thing that changes is social policy
21:52 harrison at the deepest level it isn't even about economics
21:53 harrison a simple thought xperiment will show you
21:53 john_minetest us{0gb: My kernel only panics when I am compiling it myself and add an insufficient rootfs
21:53 harrison picture an extreme leftist to yourself
21:53 Peacock well you can have all the social policy you want, if people don't have jobs to make their dreams happen, they don't end up having much of a life
21:53 harrison dreadlocks, bong, the whole nine yards
21:54 Peacock i dont have to picture extreme leftists, im on the canadian east coast lol
21:54 john_minetest harrison: I picture an extreme leftist with a red communist flag in a demonstration against capitalism.
21:54 harrison what ONE change could the leftist make to himself that would turn him into an extreme rightist?
21:54 john_minetest That guy with dreadlocks and bong is a rasta
21:54 Peacock the leftist wouldn't change himself, he'd change society lol
21:55 harrison this is a thought xperiment and if you take it seriously you will learn something
21:55 john_minetest harrison: Stop making social reforms?
21:55 john_minetest Social reforms are the only thing that differs from extreme left to extreme right.
21:55 harrison No, a extreme rightist could hate big money and corporations and wish to radically reform society
21:56 harrison A rightist could have dreads
21:56 harrison even smoke a bong
21:56 Peacock you mean in the way the nazis considered themselves the third way?
21:56 harrison don'
21:56 john_minetest Nazis where even socialist.
21:56 Calinou gg... yet another political flamewar
21:56 harrison ok, we are getting warmer
21:57 Peacock well nazi is derived from national socialism lol
21:57 harrison so were the nazis left or right (to the man in the street's naive view)?
21:57 Peacock though i dont know if you could call them either right or left
21:57 harrison how about neonazis and nationalists in europe? right or left?
21:57 Peacock neonazis are hard right (by today's scales)
21:58 harrison true
21:58 harrison so if our hippie became a nationalist, he'd move to the extreme right
21:58 harrison even with the dreads and bong
21:58 john_minetest nationalsocialism is right wing because the definition of right wing is "accepts a social hierachy"
21:58 harrison no
21:59 Peacock extreme left and extreme right are both totalitarian
21:59 harrison but one is antiracist and one is racialist
21:59 john_minetest WAIT
21:59 harrison that's the real difference
21:59 john_minetest Look for "rootless cosmopolit"
22:00 harrison don't drag the tribe into it yet
22:00 Peacock so these days parties dont draw lines along race but by nationality
22:00 john_minetest http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rootless_cosmopolitan
22:00 harrison The term "rootless cosmopolitan" is considered to specifically refer to Jewish intellectuals
22:01 john_minetest Exactly.
22:01 harrison maybe we should tiptoe around this topic lest we disturb the Ancient Ones
22:01 Peacock though at least where nationality is concerned, you can argue that your parents and grandparents paid taxes and built up the social welfare state for their children, not immigrants, and i think that's the appeal in the 21st century
22:01 john_minetest Antisemitism/racism in a left system can exist.
22:01 harrison from your lips...
22:02 Peacock well the israelis were pro-left up until the 70s until they were pro-right, which is why anti-semitism has shifted from one end of the spectrum to the other
22:02 Peacock the soviets were the first to recognize the independence of Israel
22:03 john_minetest Shouldn't this go to #politics?
22:03 harrison http://majorityrights.com/weblog/comm​ents/some_weeks_saturday_comes_early
22:03 john_minetest iirc this channel was called #minetest
22:04 harrison is there even a #politics or is  it apocryphal?
22:05 Peacock people discuss politics all the time on here, whether it's US policy, international spying or copyright
22:05 john_minetest Abandon
22:05 harrison or rootless cosmopolitanism
22:05 john_minetest copyrights is not that easy
22:05 john_minetest that rootless cosmopolitanism was just an example for antisemitism in left systems.
22:06 katyusha joined #minetest
22:06 Peacock well people do have very political opinions on copyright, patents, and more broadly open source and the FSF, you can't say it's purely technical
22:06 john_minetest Free software is NOT technial
22:06 harrison everything is contaminated with politics. there are no truly "pure" channels on irc
22:06 john_minetest This is the only point that free software makes.
22:07 Peacock OSI is more technical, FSF is more political, that everyone mostly knows
22:07 john_minetest Free software is about freedom, not about technical stuff. Technical stuff is Open source software.
22:07 john_minetest go to #GNU
22:07 Peacock well thats why HURD never got off the ground and the linux kernel did lol
22:07 john_minetest With help of GNU tools
22:07 Peacock linus was more interested in writing code and stallman writing speeches
22:08 john_minetest I think that GNU/Linux is a bit overshot, looking at how many gnu tools and how many non-gnu-tools are used on common systems.
22:09 Peacock though im surprised people defend stallman here, the fat american bully who tries to take credit for a finnish guy's work
22:09 Peacock well i wish someone would make a busybox-based linux distro so i wouldn't have an trace of GNU lol
22:09 john_minetest My system had to be GNU/BSD/MIT/blender foundation/oracle/linux
22:09 Peacock *an = a
22:09 john_minetest Peacock: I have got a busybox-based linux distro
22:10 Peacock i was only attracted to opensource because it seemed the easiest route to learn to code (apache + php) but the politics bit turns me off as i suspect it does for many
22:11 john_minetest Peacock: Where do you want to have it uploaded?
22:11 john_minetest Or do you prefer to have my compile scripts?
22:11 Peacock debian based?
22:11 john_minetest From scratch
22:11 john_minetest But not LFS.
22:12 john_minetest Just try-and-error until I had it.
22:12 Peacock you should setup a distro
22:12 john_minetest That's what I am doing right now.
22:12 Warr1024 any way to get the eye height of player from player:getpos()
22:12 Warr1024 ?
22:12 Warr1024 it seems like getpos() gives you location of feet.
22:12 Peacock so many people make custom distros because most of the choices suck (i agree) i just wish they start those projects lol
22:12 Warr1024 I'm assuming it's simple like y = y + 1.5 or something?
22:12 john_minetest Peacock: Only busybox working until now since I got a bit of lib problems.
22:13 john_minetest Compiler work in progress.
22:13 Peacock well keep me posted on that, im always interested in decent new distros
22:13 Peacock archbang was a bit of a let down and crunchbang is good but abit outdated too
22:14 Peacock something between bleeding-edge-broken and old-enough-for-grandma would be good
22:15 sfan5 john_minetest: how about buildroot?
22:16 john_minetest sfan5: No, since the primary goal of my distro is to learn how to make an own distro.
22:17 sfan5 hm..
22:17 sfan5 I was able to make an os that works a bit
22:17 john_minetest OS is my next step.
22:17 john_minetest But first the distro.
22:18 john_minetest Distro -> OS -> Peace on earth -> Rocket -> Jetpacks!
22:18 Peacock no hovercars?
22:18 john_minetest That's my ultimate plan.
22:18 john_minetest Hey... JETPACKS!!!
22:18 Peacock warp drive, starships, galactic conquest?
22:18 john_minetest We don't need dumb hovercars.
22:18 john_minetest J E T P A C K S !!!
22:19 john_minetest Hey, that is the most awesome thing EVER.
22:19 Peacock jetpacks? ill burn what little ass off i have
22:20 john_minetest Jetpacks. 'Nuff said.
22:20 john_minetest Also I will compile my distro, make a little check and upload it when it works.
22:21 Peacock i wonder what a crunchslack would look like lol
22:21 Peacock or would that be slackbang?
22:21 kaeza Warr1024, y + 1.625
22:21 sfan5 john_minetest: heres what I have: http://sfan5.duckdns.org/uploa​d/userdata/1/testlinux.tar.bz2
22:22 sfan5 boot with 'qemu -kernel bzImage -initrd newinitrd.img'
22:22 sfan5 you can also pass it rootfs=<device> and rootfstype=<fstype>
22:22 john_minetest The thing that annoys me most in linux distros: The stupid docs are so outdated, seems they have been made when linux 0.0.1 came out.
22:22 john_minetest sfan5: Why not making isos?
22:22 sfan5 because not yet
22:23 arsdragonfly joined #minetest
22:23 sfan5 I change my initrd often and don't want to make a new iso everytime
22:24 Peacock i need initrd for my bunghole </cornholio>
22:26 john_minetest sfan5: It takes only 3 seconds for me. So it is no problem to make an iso every time.
22:28 john_minetest http://cdn.memegenerator.net​/instances/500x/43867077.jpg
22:30 Leoneof joined #minetest
22:31 john_minetest sfan5: Hmmm, doesn't run perfectly for me.
22:32 sfan5 whats wrong?
22:34 john_minetest It says that it didn't find some gnu libs
22:34 john_minetest Also it says that it can't access tty.
22:35 john_minetest And that job control is turned off.
22:35 sfan5 what did you use as root filesystem?
22:36 john_minetest newinitrd.img
22:36 john_minetest I just used that initrd as root filesystem.
22:36 sfan5 mhm..
22:37 sfan5 then everything is ok
22:38 john_minetest Just recompiled the kernel to get the standard hostname right
22:41 ImQ009 joined #minetest
22:42 john_minetest Peacock: I'll just upload my distro.
22:42 Peacock no rush, im brushing up on this jquery shit lol
22:44 Taoki VanessaE: poke
22:45 john_minetest It is a bit complicated. I normally upload files to the sabayon distro pastebin but uploading my distro there would be kinda... mean.
22:45 john_minetest Peacock: stashbox.org/1318322/output.iso <- sfan5
22:46 blaaaaargh joined #minetest
22:47 Peacock bookmarked, though im currently testing some shit for a contract, so ittl be awhile before i can VM it
22:47 Leoneof joined #minetest
22:48 john_minetest sfan5: Do you want to try it?
22:48 john_minetest qemu-system-x86_64 -boot d -cdrom output.iso
22:49 sfan5 john_minetest: yes
22:50 john_minetest login: root
22:50 john_minetest password: just press enter to continue
22:51 sfan5 how did you break /proc ?
22:52 john_minetest I didn't do anything in proc
22:52 stormchaser3000 joined #minetest
22:52 stormchaser3000 left #minetest
22:52 sfan5 maybe you should add 'mount proc /proc -t proc' to your init script
22:52 john_minetest mkdir {bin,dev,etc,home,root,sbin,usr,proc}
22:53 john_minetest I mkdir'd it but I was too lazy to add anything to it
22:53 sfan5 you don't add anything to /proc
22:53 sfan5 anyway, nice thingy
22:55 john_minetest okay, added.
22:56 john_minetest seems to work with proc now
22:57 john_minetest sfan5: I might upload my scripts to github when I think it is ready.
22:58 john_minetest But libs have to be fixed and before libs and compiler work properly I won't do anything.
22:59 john_minetest sfan5: Here, have another one: stashbox.org/1318323/output.iso
22:59 john_minetest qemu-system-x86_64 -boot d -cdrom output.iso
23:01 sfan5 'top' works out of the box now
23:01 sfan5 you should consider adding networking support
23:04 john_minetest Let's discuss further stuff in PMs
23:04 Miner_48er joined #minetest
23:05 harrison pornomissives
23:07 Calinou pony messages
23:10 sfan5 wat
23:10 sfan5 Keyllama claims that their keyloggers are invisible to the os
23:10 sfan5 how would you do that
23:10 sfan5 (you plug them into usb btw)
23:11 Calinou fully hardware stuff? hidden process in process list?
23:13 sfan5 Calinou: fully hardware
23:13 sfan5 http://keyllama.com/index.php?main_p​age=product_info&amp;products_id=24
23:13 sfan5 that just.. won't work
23:13 john_minetest Well, it just monitors and redirects.
23:13 john_minetest Why shouldn't it work?
23:14 sfan5 monitors what?
23:14 john_minetest keypresses
23:14 sfan5 how?
23:15 sfan5 it goes keyllama <-> usb port NOT keyboard <-> keyllama <-> usb port
23:15 john_minetest It gets the signal from the keyboard and translates it to characters with a builtin microprocessor
23:15 john_minetest wut?
23:15 john_minetest Hardware keyloggers normally go keyboard <-> keylogger <-> hardware
23:16 sfan5 unless your usb controller ic leaks voltage from other ports that won't work
23:16 john_minetest "Ultra compact and discrete, extends just 1.6" when plugged in"
23:16 john_minetest That means that something is plugged into it
23:17 sfan5 no
23:18 sfan5 ''We guarantee our keyloggers will be compatible with your system!''
23:18 john_minetest Yes.
23:18 john_minetest It is all hardware-based.
23:19 sfan5 ah.. something's plugged into it
23:19 john_minetest Yeah.
23:19 john_minetest You plug the keyboard into the one end-
23:21 sfan5 it would be way stealthier to just put the pcb with the ICs into (the big thing that is usually in the middle of vga cables)
23:21 sfan5 http://carpcpower.com/images/produ​cts/cables/vga-cable-white-lg.jpg
23:22 sfan5 the thing at the top middle
23:23 john_minetest I think those are ferrite coils to eleminate noise but I'm not sure.
23:24 sfan5 >vga cable >noise
23:24 sfan5 wat
23:24 john_minetest And I think when the keyboard has that cable already it would be suspicious when there would be an extension cord added.
23:24 sfan5 unless you have 100V or more there is no noise
23:24 sfan5 (or do you mean signal noise?)
23:24 zash Yes, ferrite coils for noice
23:25 john_minetest sfan5: Electromagnetic noise https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferrite_bead
23:26 Peacock joined #minetest
23:26 Gambit joined #minetest
23:39 anunakki joined #minetest
23:52 john_minetest https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/799
23:52 john_minetest testing...
23:54 Taoki john_minetest: Let me know what you think
23:55 JamesTait joined #minetest
23:58 john_minetest Not bad.
23:58 john_minetest Could be tweaked a bit though.
23:58 john_minetest Also it should be rebased.
23:58 Taoki I'll try to rebase it again

| Channels | #minetest index | Today | | Google Search | Plaintext