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IRC log for #minetest, 2013-12-15

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:00 john_minetest It is sometimes a bit strange when the whole cloud/fog changes the color when turning around.
00:00 john_minetest and now leaving for sleep.
00:00 john_minetest cya
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00:01 Taoki night. Also, rebased
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00:48 Jordach grrr, I want to do some work im blender...but im not at home...
00:49 pitriss ShadowNinja: Hi I want to ask: Is possible to add "title text" also for groups in unified inventory?
00:50 kaeza Jordach, see reply in no_guests
00:50 ShadowNinja pitriss: No, that was the original idea but formspecs don't support that.
00:51 pitriss ShadowNinja: ohh thats bad, because lot of groups have too long name which not fit into that tiny field
00:53 ShadowNinja pitriss: Yep, I know. Want to rewrite formspecs? ;-)
00:54 pitriss ShadowNinja: to be clear, by "title text" I mean that bubble with text which pops up when you hover cursor above itemin craftguide.
00:54 pitriss ShadowNinja: hehe no thanks:D
00:54 thexyz sfan5: what version of sqlite were you using in your android port?
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01:14 Warr1024 anyone know a way to modify the game engine speed?
01:15 Warr1024 what I'd really like is a way to change the speed of everything in the game except players.
01:15 Warr1024 there's a time_speed setting that controls daytime advancing.
01:15 Warr1024 trying to do everything else involving entities will require mucking about with physics.
01:16 Warr1024 worst is the abm's; to do a "fast-forward" I'd have to duplicate them to go faster than { chance = 1, interval = 1 }
01:17 Jordach warr, give minerest a higher processing priority
01:17 Warr1024 ha
01:18 Warr1024 nice
01:19 Warr1024 this could get painful processor-wise as it is.
01:20 PilzAdam bye
01:26 thexyz sfan5: anyway, it seems to work pretty ok with leveldb so i'll stick with it
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01:28 thexyz http://i.imgur.com/eQse6Rj.png
01:29 thexyz <3
01:29 Warr1024 ooh, neat
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01:29 Warr1024 how do gui's work?
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01:31 pitriss thexyz: Ohh official android port?:)
01:31 VanessaE thexyz: want a little bit of play field to go along with your control interface? ;)
01:32 VanessaE glad to see it progressing, really.
01:32 thexyz in the last build you can move around and dig stuff without wanting to kill me!
01:33 thexyz Warr1024: https://github.com/xyzz/freeminer/tree/android
01:33 VanessaE heh
01:33 thexyz it even supports multitouch already
01:33 thexyz not like you'll ever need more than 2 fingers to control it
01:39 thexyz pitriss: it's official but not minetest
01:39 Warr1024 aw
01:39 Warr1024 was hoping for an official compatible android client for MT
01:40 thexyz well, it's compatible
01:40 thexyz but it's a port of minetest fork
01:40 thexyz you can find the name in top left corner
01:42 VanessaE oh indeed
01:42 Warr1024 will it be remaining compatible?
01:42 VanessaE thexyz: you still need to take it through the full acid test
01:43 thexyz dunno, can't say there's a goal like "keep compatibility forever"
01:43 thexyz but there's also no reason to break compatibility
01:43 thexyz for now.
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02:03 Peacock damn cat, first she invades Czechoslovakia, now it's the christmas village :)
02:03 Peacock *:(
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02:15 Sokomine which cat?
02:16 RealBadAngel hey folks, i think i have Bumped feature ready: http://i.imgur.com/WLLIlyZ.png
02:18 Sokomine hm. it does look a bit strange. but i'm not familiar with shaders. show it to inocudom :-) he'll be very happy
02:21 VanessaE Sokomine: actually the bumpmaps do look quite nice in practice... IF RBA WOULD JUST COMMIT THE DAMN THINGS :)
02:23 RealBadAngel some screenshots from VanessaE server:
02:23 RealBadAngel http://i.imgur.com/NcVNdwL.png
02:24 RealBadAngel http://i.imgur.com/Jh13V2j.png
02:24 RealBadAngel http://i.imgur.com/KHgOlOy.png
02:25 VanessaE NOT BAD.
02:27 Sokomine :-)
02:27 Sokomine perhaps i'm just too used to poor graphics :-)
02:29 RealBadAngel those are default 16x textures, without any modifications
02:29 Sokomine a lot of players will just love this and enjoy the new shaders very much. so commit it :-) and get it merged
02:30 * Sokomine wonders if she would get killed by those players loving shaders if trying to point rba towards an ingame map :-)
02:30 * Sokomine hides behind a tree
02:30 NakedFury no idea you are a she
02:31 Sokomine i am. it's just not obvious from my name. avoids strange treatment through young males
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02:42 zsoltisawesome what happening all?
02:42 VanessaE hi
02:43 zsoltisawesome crap gtg
02:43 zsoltisawesome bye all
02:58 RealBadAngel hmm, effect does work quite good not only default textures
03:00 RealBadAngel without: http://i.imgur.com/LEzebiX.png and with: http://i.imgur.com/RX2BUjh.png
03:04 VanessaE nice
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03:13 landminerowns sup sup
03:14 landminerowns hey crew any of you know how to fix shadows easy? the ones created by worldedit?
03:14 landminerowns planting trees doesnt seem to be working anymore
03:14 Warr1024 I've had similar problems too
03:15 Warr1024 caused by opaque fluids
03:15 Warr1024 I think it's a known issue they're working on...
03:16 Warr1024 the only fix I know of is painstakingly filling in the shadow areas then digging them out 1 node at a time.
03:18 landminerowns well warr before you can plant a tree and the shadow till be removed like 200x200
03:18 landminerowns somehow they seemed to fuck that up
03:18 landminerowns and the //fixlight cmd on worldedit doesnt seem to do anything
03:19 landminerowns the only mod that worked for that was mauvebics fixlight mod
03:19 landminerowns somehow they scared him away too
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03:48 Sokomine no, mauvebic is usually still online. he just uses a diffrent nick
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05:34 LazyJ Howdy, folks :) I've got a lua question (or two if it progresses). So, of course, that means, "Hey, I'm making an epic mod, but have no clue about how to do it."  (Not so epic, and know just enough to get myself into trouble. ;)  )
05:35 LazyJ What I'm up to. I'd like to add the waving line of code to other mods via a "patch" mod so I don't have to alter the original mods' code.
05:35 LazyJ For example, Mossmanakin's "Ferns" and "DryPlants" mods don't have the waving in the code, yet.
05:36 LazyJ Should Mossmanakin decide not to add the waving in future updates I'd like to be able to use his updates without having to edit the waving code in every time.
05:37 Hirato bro, patch and diff are your friends :p
05:37 Hirato sed is too
05:37 Hirato I can't help more as I cannot into Lua, so to speak
05:37 ShadowNinja LazyJ: You can override the node, but there isn't official support for that yet.
05:38 LazyJ I've looked a bit into diff but I'd like to avoid editing the original mods if possible.
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05:38 LazyJ Ah, thanks, ShadowNinja.
05:38 Hirato can't he just lookup a specific node type and make alterations to it via regular Lua calls?
05:38 LazyJ I've looked at VanessaE's code for jungleplants in her PlantLife mod.
05:38 Hirato because that sounds like a glaring omission in the API :P
05:39 LazyJ I saw  ":default:junglegrass" - the colon before the default.
05:39 kaeza Hirato, you can, but "It's Hacky" © 2012 PilzAdam
05:39 LazyJ Tried it and it didn't quite work.
05:40 LazyJ It did override the particular minetest.register.node being called but since I was only adding "waving = 1" it overrode the rest of the node's prior code and created "unknown blocks".
05:40 kaeza LazyJ, easiest way now is to make a shallow copy of a node definition, modify as desired, and re-register it
05:40 Hirato just wondering, what would waving=2 do?
05:41 Hirato would it intensify the effect, make the waves larger?
05:41 LazyJ kaeza, yeah, that was my next thought but it requires enough work to make me wonder if it is worth it. Especially if the author's change those parts of the code in future updates.
05:42 Hirato create a "makewavey" function, and just call the relevant nodes with it :D
05:42 LazyJ Going beyond just adding the waving visual to some plants in my singleplayer worlds, this is teaching me a little more about how lua works.
05:43 LazyJ What I'm wondering is if there is a way to pull in the different mods by specifying their paths.
05:44 LazyJ However, if that is successful, (which I think the colon before the mod_name does) that code overrides the prior code.
05:44 LazyJ I don't want to override, just add-to.
05:45 Hirato that's a good one, is there a means of which to check for the presence of other mods to enable some optional support things?
05:45 LazyJ Customization and choice and all that.
05:45 LazyJ Learning as I tinker.
05:45 Hirato or should he make a mod for every other mod?
05:46 kaeza LazyJ, if you clone the node, you "inherit" all the settings from the original one; it does not matter what the original coder does after that, your new copy will still get all the stuff
05:46 Hirato er.. he wants to made a mod that adjusts other mods :P
05:46 kaeza LazyJ, this is a simple shallow copy operation (copy if needed) https://github.com/VanessaE/plantlife​/blob/master/plants_lib/init.lua#L79
05:46 LazyJ Ultimately I was thinking of just creating one big, personal mod to add my customizations without altering the original mods' codes.
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05:47 kaeza Hirato, 1) make a copy, 2) modify what you need to modify, 3) add what you need to add, 4) ..., 5) PROFIT!
05:48 kaeza 3.5) register the node with the same name, prepending ":"
05:48 Hirato that's the thing, he wants to avoid step 1
05:48 LazyJ Hirato, correct. Because I want to be able to install updates to these mods (original code) without having to edit in my customizations every time.
05:48 kaeza oh dog
05:48 Hirato he wants to alter the resources IN the other mod, not replace that mod
05:48 kaeza there's a huge misunderstanding here
05:49 LazyJ Back to the earlier example.
05:49 LazyJ Ferns mod doesn't wave, yet.
05:49 kaeza I do not mean "copy the source code", I mean "copy the node definition programatically"
05:49 LazyJ Ferns mods is updated with new fern plants but still no waving.
05:50 LazyJ I use the update, new fern plants appear, but my patch mod throws in a little addon that tells the original mod to wave the ferns.
05:51 LazyJ Copy/paste the section of code pertaining to the node I want to wave.
05:51 kaeza in that case, you just add the new plants (possibly to a list)
05:51 kaeza ...
05:51 kaeza okay, have fun
05:51 LazyJ Hehehe... yup, lots of, um... fun. :)-
05:52 LazyJ If I had a better grasp of programing terminology I probably could do a better job of explaining.
05:54 LazyJ There is probably a clever and simple way to do it, I'll just have to study lua from the basics on up.
05:54 LazyJ Anyway, this is a non-critical project. Thanks for the suggestions and leads. ;)
05:55 kaeza LazyJ, http://pastebin.com/yVqirvrp
05:56 LazyJ Thanks, kaeza.
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07:03 Whitemau5 hello!
07:03 kaeza hi
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08:29 sfan5 thexyz: the built-in one
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08:36 thexyz sfan5: I see
08:36 thexyz I still haven't managed to make it work so I just replaced it with leveldb
08:41 LazyJ kaeza, what code is needed in your no_guest mod to do the same to all-number playernames?
08:41 sfan5 thexyz: want these textures? http://i.imgur.com/ASYEQcF.png
08:43 kaeza LazyJ, http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/6571377/
08:43 kaeza (thank VE for that)
08:44 LazyJ Thanks, kaeza, for the snippet and pass on my thanks to VanessaE too, please. ;)
08:44 LazyJ You both do good work.
08:46 kaeza you're welcome :)
08:59 thexyz sfan5: sure, why not
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09:12 thexyz wow, I've added minecraft-pe-like digging (when you dig what you click) and now controls don't feel (very) retarded anymore
09:14 thexyz s/when/where/
09:15 reactor thexyz: how do you dig in MT by default?
09:16 reactor Oh, you're porting it to portable devices?
09:16 thexyz yes, by default there's a crosshair
09:16 reactor I wonder if it would be more convenient, then, if the centre of the camera's FOV turned into that direction immediately.
09:17 reactor As in, where you click, becomes the new centre.
09:17 reactor s/into/in/
09:18 thexyz dunno, other games don't do this
09:18 reactor Maybe add this as optional feature?
09:19 reactor And see if players like it?
09:19 Hirato lolwut? it's a stock standard first person camera
09:20 Hirato Hmmm... you can always use slide gestures to move the camera
09:20 Hirato and tap a area a few times to start digging or something
09:20 reactor Yes. But it would be interesting to add the option of what you tap becoming centered.
09:21 reactor But I'm not a game dev, anyway. You must know better.
09:21 sfan5 thexyz: http://sfan5.duckdns.org/upload/u​serdata/1/mobiletextures.tar.bz2
09:21 Hirato yeah, definitely an option, might want to keep an eye out for creepers
09:21 Hirato Ssssssssssssssssss
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09:23 reactor ...but MT doesn't have creepers.
09:23 thexyz sfan5: wait, don't you have SVG?
09:24 sfan5 thexyz: uhh.. no
09:24 sfan5 maybe it was stupid not to use svg
09:24 reactor http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-DO-XCDzJ​W7g/TU1QhHb8AoI/AAAAAAAAAd0/gs4JLj​d2EeI/s1600/real+life+creeper.jpg
09:24 reactor SVG textures?
09:24 reactor Woah.
09:24 reactor That's an overkill, isn't it?
09:24 Hirato was kind of a joke; minetest will eventually get a survival mode with monsters
09:25 reactor Hopefully.
09:25 thexyz no, because many android devices have such high DPI any textures will look like pixelated shit
09:25 thexyz unless they're designed to look like pixelated shit
09:25 Hirato > looks like pixelated shit
09:25 thexyz especially that circle
09:25 Hirato > textures are 32x32 at best
09:25 Hirato lol
09:25 reactor Oh, you mean SVG HUD...
09:25 reactor It's sane.
09:26 Calinou a SVG HUD is a better idea
09:27 reactor It is.
09:27 Hirato just make sure to cache frames ^^
09:27 reactor Even for pixelated games, it is.
09:27 Hirato don't want to redrew the entire thing every frmae
09:27 reactor Yeah.
09:28 reactor Cache them every time screen size is changed.
09:35 Calinou sfan5, could you run your wrongl-formatted-mod-topics check again mayne? :P
09:36 reactor The mod store uses forums to download mods?
09:36 reactor This is sooo wrong and kludgey!
09:36 reactor Why not use a repository server? Or at least a FTP?
09:39 thexyz that's what it does
09:39 Calinou no, it doesn't
09:39 Calinou forums and mod store are separate
09:40 reactor Oh, so the mods are downloaded from the forum links, and stored elsewhere?
09:40 reactor This is better :)
09:41 Calinou I should put my mods on mmdb
09:42 Calinou too lazy to write documentation though :/
09:42 reactor But it would be easier to process mods sent by email than sent to forums.
09:43 reactor A script on the mod server, where they're mailed, would move them to the mod store, and that's it. No need to process complex stuff.
09:43 Calinou where do I get to visit the MMDB from a web browser? I forgot the URL
09:48 VanessaE https://forum.minetest.net/mmdb/
09:48 Calinou thanks
09:50 Calinou zlib license isn't listed... :/
09:52 VanessaE is there an api function that prints decently-human-readable tables?  not like dump() but something more akin to a tree view?
09:55 sfan5 Calinou: sure
09:58 Calinou a license field is required :/
10:03 pitriss Calinou: I read something on forums that mmdb don't want publish non free licenced code.. so CC-BY-SA etc aren't supported.. IDK how about zlib.
10:03 Calinou CC BY-SA is free
10:03 Calinou the "NC" and "ND" clauses are not, but they are still allowed right now
10:04 Calinou zlib is considered as a free license
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10:05 pitriss Calinou: of course.. sry I'm not fully wake yet:D
10:08 Issa2013 reactor it's really cool
10:08 Issa2013 but my son of  years who play minetest i do'nt think he like
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10:10 reactor Issa2013: ?
10:10 sfan5 Calinou: done
10:12 Issa2013 reactor, http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-DO-XCDzJ​W7g/TU1QhHb8AoI/AAAAAAAAAd0/gs4JLj​d2EeI/s1600/real+life+creeper.jpg
10:13 VanessaE oy, that'll give someone nightmares
10:14 reactor Mk.
10:14 Issa2013 but it's a beauty monster :)
10:14 reactor Well, that could be done in some "ultra-violence" mod.
10:14 reactor Not to make the main game too gory.
10:16 Hirato nightmares? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-zjGzCxpuc
10:17 sfan5 !titles
10:17 sfan5 !title+
10:17 sfan5 !title
10:17 MinetestBot sfan5: Amnesia: Part 0 - YouTube
10:17 Hirato just watch it
10:19 Hirato or we can go back to the 90's https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lva8L-J8x04
10:19 Hirato er.. that video's bad, let me find a better one
10:20 sfan5 !title
10:20 MinetestBot sfan5: Sid Meier&#39;s Alpha Centauri Secret Project: The Dream Twister - YouTube
10:22 Hirato doesn't look like there is a better vid :/
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10:25 Hirato Oh.. just open it in VLC, youtube's player's just crap
10:25 Calinou Hirato should meet thex yz
10:25 Calinou you both like VLC :> </sarcasm>
10:25 reactor thexyz: ^
10:25 Hirato together we can read manga and follow the path of anime
10:25 Hirato http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJbAH6WXyOg
10:30 thexyz > 2014
10:30 thexyz > VLC
10:31 Hirato 2014 year of VLC on the desktop
10:31 nore sfan5, in the report: 1. paramat  23 Mods <-- wow, that's a lot...
10:31 thexyz https://www.dropbox.com/s/u54z42l7​zz3vh5j/2013-09-28%2012.07.07.jpg
10:32 thexyz > using vlc
10:32 thexyz > ever
10:32 thexyz why are you denying the future?
10:32 Hirato I am confused by thexyz
10:32 thexyz oh, it's easy
10:32 thexyz vlc is shit, you shouldn't be using it
10:33 Hirato in before MPC with CCCP, WOLOLOLOLOL
10:38 thexyz Hirato: no, you should use MPV
10:39 thexyz or.. wait.. do you mean you're using that proprietary OS?
10:39 Hirato I thought you were going to suggest something that only worked on that OS
10:39 thexyz why would I not respect freedoms?
10:40 Hirato because that's what ever other VLC hating tit does :P
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10:42 thexyz well, honestly, you should stop using it, because why?
10:42 john_minetest Hello everypony.
10:42 thexyz * because why use it
10:43 Hirato for one, last time I tried mplayer, it was linked against libpulse :P
10:44 john_minetest I use mpv
10:44 thexyz use mpv
10:45 john_minetest mpv is good.
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10:45 thexyz mpv is better
10:45 john_minetest I use it to play youtube videos because my gnash build is somewhat broken and floods my memory
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10:46 thexyz you should use it for all videos you have
10:46 thexyz not just shitty jewtube
10:46 sfan5 >jewtube >jew
10:47 Hirato lol, the interface doesn't even have a volume slider
10:47 thardin pootube
10:47 sfan5 who the fuck needs a volume slider
10:47 Hirato I don't see shit for speeding up playback spede either
10:48 reactor Why not just upload videos to file sharing sites, like dropbox or Google disk?
10:48 reactor youtube has gone rather broken nowadays.
10:48 reactor Even youtube-dl sometimes fails to work around its silly tricks.
10:48 reactor Also, youtube limits cache.
10:48 reactor So the playback is always choppy.
10:48 reactor was kicked by ShadowBot: Paste flood detected. Use a pastebin like pastebin.ubuntu.com or gist.github.com.
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10:49 reactor What?!
10:49 reactor I'm not even typing fast, am I?!
10:49 john_minetest Hirato: Lol, I am just listening to a song played with 53% speed in mpv.
10:49 thexyz Hirato: what, where?
10:49 thexyz you're using it wrong then
10:50 thexyz btw, OSD is written in Lua AFAIK
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10:51 john_minetest btw youtube
10:51 thexyz Hirato: anyway, [ and ] to toggle speend and + - for volume and numpad / * for volume and you of course can configure this shit and of course your OS should have its own volume control
10:52 Hirato +/- is going some A/V sync stuff
10:52 john_minetest Youtube replacement idea:  https://gist.github.com/jmf/a483a68dec4ba2c31e55
10:53 sfan5 john_minetest: s/Ads-free/Ad-free/
10:53 thexyz Hirato: yes, i forgot to delete this part, use numpad / *
10:53 john_minetest Hirato: Use the key 9 and 0 to adjust volume
10:54 john_minetest sfan5: Yeah, only spelling mistakes. It is about the basic idea and only a quick draft I did in half an hour.
10:55 thexyz john_minetest: sorry but that's shit
10:55 sfan5 p2p is way better for that
10:55 sfan5 and then your won't have a controlling instance
10:55 john_minetest I don't want p2p
10:55 sfan5 why not?
10:55 john_minetest I want a master server with user accounts.
10:56 sfan5 user accounts can still be done with public-key-crypto
10:56 thexyz that's shit because you need money to host your fucking master server and a bunch of slave servers
10:56 john_minetest p2p is nice for communication but not
10:56 reactor Good idea.
10:56 reactor Does that boil down to peer-to-peer storage?
10:56 reactor Oh. Gotta run. Brb, some hours.
10:56 thexyz and then no one is going to use it anyway because - License: Only allow special licenses. That way users won't upload music or videos which are unfree. Which licenses, must be discussed.
10:57 john_minetest If nobody uses it there will be no problem with a lot of slave servers.
10:58 thexyz then just use some gnu thing
10:58 john_minetest It is all about having an open-source youtube-like video platform that allows people to share let's plays and own music.
10:58 RealBadAngel thexyz, the patch for coloured lights is vs current tree?
10:58 thexyz mediagoblin or how was it called
10:58 Hirato lol firefox, in about:memory it reads, └──-1,775.67 MB (-60.38%) -- (21 tiny) [?!]
10:58 john_minetest gnu media goblin is nice
10:58 thexyz RealBadAngel: no of course
10:58 sfan5 RealBadAngel: no, vs 0.3.x
10:58 thexyz no, it's shit
10:58 john_minetest but the design is shitty
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10:58 thexyz because it's written in what?
10:58 * sfan5 opens gist.github.com and begins typing
10:58 thexyz I guess python without any framework?
10:59 john_minetest hosting a master server is not that big problem. I know several server owners.
10:59 john_minetest slave servers are everywhere. Anybody can open one.
11:01 thexyz yes, sure
11:01 thexyz anyone is going to give you bandwidth AND space for free
11:01 thexyz s/anyone/everyone/
11:01 thexyz and then no one of course is going to upload illegal content
11:01 thexyz because it's written in this doc that no legal content is allowed
11:02 thexyz so no one will do it
11:02 john_minetest People are opening free minetest servers. After your definition this is impossible.
11:02 thexyz you can't upload CP to minetest server
11:02 thexyz do you not understand?
11:03 thexyz minetest server won't eat that much bandwidth
11:03 thexyz shall I go on?
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11:03 john_minetest If this is such a big problem, then ads could be added to get money.
11:04 john_minetest Also it is a draft.
11:04 thexyz indeed, ads
11:04 thexyz but everyone will block them using adblock, lol
11:04 john_minetest I got ideas going in another direction.
11:04 thexyz I think p2p is the only solution; not sure about speed
11:04 thexyz but as one idea: make quality depend on how much a user shares (disk space, speed)
11:04 thexyz so, for example you only get to watch 720p if you share at least 1 megabyte/second
11:05 thexyz and 100 gb of disk space
11:05 john_minetest Maybe another idea would be to provide a framework.
11:05 thexyz (it's impossible to detect though so there will be asses who fake it)
11:05 john_minetest People could build up structures that are linked and wrapped up in one web interface
11:05 thexyz (like now with adblock and shit)
11:05 john_minetest myvideo can see adblockers somehow.
11:06 john_minetest When adblocker is active it shows some short film saying "Turn off your adblocker"
11:06 john_minetest
11:06 thexyz it's quite easy to check
11:06 john_minetest Well, an idea could be to provide a framework for "slave servers" that are actually full video platforms.
11:06 thexyz but it's quite easy to block too
11:07 john_minetest So everybody has an own video platform for the group (e.g. the minetest group) and all those platforms can register to the master server so all are united in a large video platform.
11:08 john_minetest When one platform hosts some inappropriate content, the master server deletes it from the list. The platform still exists, it has just been taken out of the large grid.
11:08 john_minetest "hosts some inappropriate content" = Extremely problematic amounts
11:09 thexyz now you expect people to donate servers and also moderate all content
11:09 thexyz I've got an idea
11:09 john_minetest So there could be a minetest video platform and a xonotic video platform and both can be searched over the ultimate master server interface.
11:10 thexyz let us assume we have an infinite amount of money
11:10 john_minetest I buy a jetpack.
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11:10 john_minetest ;)
11:10 thexyz that's equivalent to your idea
11:10 john_minetest Just kidding, go on.
11:12 john_minetest My first idea was about telling people: "Here you got software for your servers, go and be slaves. You don't get anything."
11:12 john_minetest I think it would be better to say: "Here you got your server software so you can build up video platforms. And if you want you can register on our site so you are connected to the grid."
11:12 thexyz eh
11:12 thexyz anyone with Android device?
11:13 thexyz well, that's cool but not decentralized
11:13 john_minetest It is quite decentralized.
11:13 thexyz what if I upload a ton of funny videos and then the server gets taken down because DMCA or something
11:13 thexyz well, it is but not in a good way
11:14 thexyz there's no replication
11:14 john_minetest The only thing the master server does is to show the videos from all servers connected to it.
11:14 john_minetest The other servers can do what they want. If there is a problem, the server owner will be responsible.
11:14 thexyz yes, so like a search engine
11:14 john_minetest Exactly.
11:14 thexyz and the only problem is that no one is going to use it
11:15 john_minetest If nobody uses it they can stay with youtube until they need a brain implant to use youtube.
11:15 john_minetest Or human centipad
11:18 john_minetest And if nobody uses it we don't even need a master server.
11:18 john_minetest Actually...
11:18 john_minetest Hmmm...
11:18 john_minetest idk
11:20 john_minetest Actually it is a project split into two parts:
11:20 john_minetest 1. A video hosting platform
11:20 john_minetest 2. A search engine that allows searching and playing videos from different platforms.
11:20 john_minetest
11:23 thexyz http://a.pomf.se/lolvi.apk
11:23 sfan5 https://gist.github.com/sfan5/24cf121efd360cd9f488
11:23 sfan5 is that better?
11:24 thexyz babby's first p2p
11:24 thexyz anyway, you forgot encryption
11:24 thexyz because it of course should be encrypted; and also it could be a good idea to go read something on p2p communication
11:24 john_minetest P2P always sounds like "A platform for pirating stuff" to me.
11:24 thexyz it will
11:25 john_minetest I want a platform for sharing let's plays, vlogs and self-made music, not a pirate bay.
11:27 thexyz good luck then
11:28 thexyz except that no one will use it but i feel like i'm saying it too much
11:28 john_minetest So you think illegal stuff will be more successfull than legal?
11:28 sfan5 thexyz: what is wrong with my p2p?
11:29 thexyz sfan5: dunno, I'm not a networks guy; but if you wrote it without consulting some smart books/articles then I can say for sure that there's something wrong with it
11:29 john_minetest If people want to share illegal stuff they can as well use torrents without having to get bad stream quality.
11:29 thexyz or have a good stream quality
11:29 thexyz and p2p
11:29 john_minetest good stream quality... this is an oxymoron
11:29 thexyz and ease to access it
11:30 thexyz why?
11:30 john_minetest streaming is just bad.
11:30 thexyz why?
11:30 thexyz you know, you can stream your torrents
11:30 thexyz how would quality get worse?
11:30 john_minetest There was an article about it somewhere. Everything is better than streaming video
11:31 sfan5 thexyz: I didn't consult a smart book / article because I used to know how p2p works
11:31 thexyz oh, that's cool
11:31 thexyz so you can start writing it then
11:32 john_minetest Why using that when there are torrents?
11:32 sfan5 mhm.. I'll eventually do that
11:32 thexyz also will it be possible to decrypt and play video in real time?
11:32 thexyz and you didn't specify how is encryption going to work
11:32 thexyz and how many peers is needed to have a youtube-size platform
11:33 thexyz john_minetest: because you get to play your video right now
11:33 john_minetest thexyz: Torrents are better than streaming. In addition to that, there are already tools for streaming p2p.
11:34 thexyz john_minetest: why are they better than streaming a file of equal quality?
11:34 thexyz the same file
11:34 thexyz why?
11:35 sfan5 thexyz: yes, current processors even have hardware aes; first it is verified that they really connected to the peer with the right pubkey after that process they have a shared secret which can be used to encrypt the process of (EC)DHE; dunno.. 750 (just a guess)
11:35 sfan5 s/pubkey after/pubkey, after/
11:36 thexyz my point is that video data should be useless without a key to decrypt it
11:36 thexyz so if you're a node you can't just decrypt videos you store
11:36 thexyz without knowing something else
11:36 sfan5 oh you want every video encrypted for itself..
11:36 sfan5 that is going to be hard
11:36 sfan5 (more or less)
11:37 thexyz every video has a public-private key pair associated with it
11:37 thexyz hash(public) is a video id which every peer knows
11:37 john_minetest thexyz: Torrents normally have better quality and if they have the same quality, streaming is REALLY laggy. It has a reason why you can stream videos while downloading takes double the video time sometimes.
11:37 thexyz then to play video you also need to know the private pair
11:37 thexyz well, not just hash(public), add hash(video) somewhere too
11:38 thexyz john_minetest: it's like you can't read or think
11:38 thexyz sorry about that but that's true
11:38 john_minetest I can read or think.
11:38 thexyz you see "streaming" and start hating without even trying to turn on your brain
11:38 john_minetest Streaming means viewing videos in realtime.
11:39 thexyz yes]
11:39 john_minetest HOW can a 1-hour-video that takes 2 hours to download be viewed in full quality in 1 hour?
11:39 thexyz no way, but you know, internet is fast those days
11:39 john_minetest Haha.
11:40 thexyz and if it's not for you then the service we're thinking about is not for you too
11:40 john_minetest Telekom tried to slow down internet for profit. They failed.
11:40 john_minetest Still there is the risk that internet is slow in some location.
11:40 thexyz then we just don't care about those locations
11:40 thexyz still there is the risk that there's no internet somewhere
11:41 thexyz should we stop making websites?
11:41 john_minetest Also HDDs are fast ast big today.
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11:41 john_minetest You can practically store thousands of films on it.
11:41 thexyz and?
11:41 john_minetest Why stream when you could store and watch?
11:42 thexyz what if this imaginary service also has an option to keep data while streaming?
11:42 john_minetest Then it is a P2P youtube-piratebay that only works for 5% of the internet users.
11:45 thexyz why 5%?
11:45 john_minetest Because 95% of the people don't have over 1.5 MB/s download.
11:46 thexyz http://i.4cdn.org/g/src/1387107677031.png
11:46 thexyz john_minetest: you definitely cherry-picking my messages, please stop
11:46 thexyz if they can't stream high quality video then they can watch low-quality
11:46 thexyz or not stream at all
11:47 thexyz I don't understand your point anyway
11:47 thexyz this imaginary service is not going to happen in any case
11:47 thexyz so why waste time talking about it?
11:47 john_minetest I have got a 1.5 MB/s connection. Sometimes HD youtube videos lag a bit for me which is annoying.
11:48 thexyz and?
11:48 thexyz who cares
11:48 john_minetest streaming might be nice. But when you use p2p anyways you better use torrents
11:50 john_minetest In "normal" internet streams might be the only possibility to show videos since downloading might be permitted by licenses. But when you go illegal anyways, streaming is just crap.
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12:03 sfan5 thexyz: I changes some things, is it better now?
12:04 sfan5 changed*
12:04 thexyz dunno, didn't read
12:04 thexyz also, you don't need compression
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12:04 thexyz because. well, videos are already compressed
12:05 sfan5 that is why i put an ? after compression
12:06 thexyz also, I obviously can't encryption so I cannot review this
12:06 thexyz and since I can't p2p too..
12:09 Jordach stop bitching you two
12:09 sfan5 I'm bitching?
12:10 damir__1 joined #minetest
12:10 Jordach jmf ans xyz, youre fine sfan
12:12 Peacock joined #minetest
12:14 sfan5 thexyz: any comment about the video format restrictions I just added
12:14 sfan5 ?
12:14 pitriss thexyz: Hi, please where I can download that freeminer android client?
12:15 thexyz sfan5: only HEVC or 10-bit H264 allowed <3
12:15 thexyz pitriss: I've just posted the apk, search the log
12:15 sfan5 thexyz: lol no :D
12:15 thexyz pitriss: also you'll need to clone my git repo to /sdcard/freeminer
12:15 pitriss thexyz: okay
12:16 thexyz sfan5: why do you need to restrict it?
12:16 sfan5 pitriss: <thexyz> http://a.pomf.se/lolvi.apk
12:16 thexyz sfan5: if not .wmv then how will people watch porn?
12:16 pitriss ok thanks:)
12:16 thexyz they'll have to reconvert which no one will do
12:16 sfan5 haha
12:16 EdB left #minetest
12:16 Peacock realvideo XD
12:16 thexyz pitriss: clone this https://github.com/xyzz/freeminer branch android to /sdcard/freeminer or nothing will work
12:17 sfan5 restrictions mainly because I don't want <name of the thing I'm drafting> clients to deal with shit like wmv or avi
12:17 pitriss thexyz: okay, thank you very much
12:17 thexyz that's not a problem, just use mpv
12:17 thexyz which uses ffmpeg (or libav)
12:17 thexyz you don't need to think about video format support
12:18 thexyz pitriss: also what's your device?
12:18 pitriss thexyz: not mine, my friend asked me if I don't have any solution..:D
12:20 PilzAdam joined #minetest
12:20 PilzAdam Hello everyone!
12:20 sfan5 hi PilzAdam
12:20 Peacock hi PulseAudio
12:21 john_minetest hey PilzAdam
12:21 Pest joined #minetest
12:27 jin_xi joined #minetest
12:30 rubenwardy joined #minetest
12:33 rubenwardy Hi all
12:35 john_minetest hi rubenwardy
12:39 MinetestBot GIT: Sapier at GMX dot net commited to minetest/minetest: Replace SimpleThread by JThread now implementing same features e9e9fd7c3f 2013-12-15T04:39:42-08:00 http://git.io/IOSdjQ
12:48 thexyz pitriss: have you managed to get it running?
12:49 pitriss thexyz: not now.. he is busy.. I will let you know when he finds some spare time..:)
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13:25 Peacock im beginning to wonder when the snow will stop XD i heard they even got some in jerusalem
13:26 sfan5 no snow in germany :(
13:27 Peacock lol so they're freezing their asses off in jerusalem and syria, yet no snow in northern europe? thats fucked up
13:27 pitriss sfan5: yeah In czech is no snow too.. But I appreciate that..:D
13:28 Peacock dont get me wrong im already looking forward to summer lol hikes in the woods, days at the beach, bbqs,
13:28 john_minetest It is freaking cold here
13:28 Peacock in winter i just... do alot of cooking i dont even have the appetite for lol
13:29 Peacock john aren't you in Germany... or south america? i forget
13:29 sfan5 john_minetest: yeah, but no snow :-(
13:30 john_minetest Peacock: germany
13:31 john_minetest And it is freakin difficult to set up a compiler.
13:31 Peacock but you took trips to south america right? or is my memory playing tricks on me (possible) lol
13:32 Peacock cold without snow kinda sucks yeah, but at least the city saves a ton on snow removal :P
13:32 john_minetest Yeah. I was in south america for some time.
13:33 john_minetest Ecuador.
13:33 phantombeta Hi
13:33 john_minetest hi phantombeta
13:33 john_minetest Peacock: Only for summer holidays.
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13:37 * rubenwardy just cleared up 10GB of hard drive space
13:37 sfan5 http://i.imgur.com/KaRnTUz.gif
13:39 Peacock ruben, no one else announces when they clear old pron from their drives :P
13:39 rubenwardy_ joined #minetest
13:42 Peacock ugh jquery mouseenter/mouseleave, the bane of many bad website designs where random elements supersize lol
13:46 john_minetest D: COMPILERS AHHHRHHG!!!
13:48 thexyz john_minetest: what's happening? are you okay?
13:49 john_minetest The compilers attacked my linux distribution. I am the only survivor.
13:50 john_minetest How can I compile a compiler when I haven'T got a compiler?
13:50 john_minetest And how can I compile a compiler with libs that don't work because they have been compiled with an other compiler?
13:51 thexyz "how do i bootstrap"
13:52 thexyz john_minetest: what's your distro?
13:52 john_minetest archlinux.
13:53 john_minetest I have to compile a compiler but it is impossible to link against uclibc. I can only link against glibc which I haven't got in my distro.
13:53 thexyz archlinux never breaks!
13:53 john_minetest It never breaks itself.
13:53 john_minetest But it breaks my distro
13:53 thexyz no, it just never breaks!
13:53 thexyz why do you need a distro?
13:54 john_minetest For learning how to do 1337 haxx0rz stuff
13:54 thexyz there's a lot of distros
13:54 thexyz you should do something more productive instead
13:54 thexyz learn c++ and go contribute to Minetest
13:54 thexyz http://www.stroustrup.com/4th.html
13:55 john_minetest I know a bit of c++ but I didn't find any place yet where to apply it.
13:55 thexyz ah, yes, that's often a problem
13:56 john_minetest I don't know much about graphics and I don't want to touch the core mess.
13:56 thexyz well you should start with simple things
13:57 thexyz are there simple things to do/fix in Minetest?
13:57 Hirato if only you had C+= :P
13:58 Hirato if you really want to go hardcore 1337 h4x, install gentoo
13:58 splash joined #minetest
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13:59 john_minetest Hirato: I am not THAT hardcore.
13:59 john_minetest I prefer to make my own distro since this is easier.
13:59 thexyz https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/116 could be simple?
13:59 Peacock lol http://jonathanscorner.com/emulator/
14:00 thexyz (well I initially wanted to say something like "hey, how about implementing multithreaded lua")
14:00 john_minetest thexyz: I don't know anything about lua
14:00 thexyz no one is born with that knowledge
14:00 Peacock except the lua gods
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14:07 pitriss please can anyone tell me how are injectors from technic mod supposed to work?
14:08 iqualfragile joined #minetest
14:09 nore pitriss, no idea, never used them... btw, you should ask technic related questions in #minetest-technic
14:11 pitriss ok.. it is not so important, so I asked here:)
14:15 Peacock better off asking here imho, we could use some more minetest related discussion XD
14:17 thexyz #-dev is busy with renaming an option so better not disturb them
14:18 Peacock lol seriously?
14:18 thexyz and people who I want to talk to aren't even there, how unfortunate
14:18 PilzAdam thexyz, its not "renaming", we are creating a new name
14:18 thexyz sorry got it wrong
14:18 harrison the people i want to talk to don't even exist
14:19 Peacock harrison i think that's called schizophrenia
14:19 thexyz well you can always make more people
14:19 harrison playing the bufoon again i see Peacock
14:19 harrison buffoon
14:19 Peacock gotta entertain the troops somehow
14:19 Peacock buffet
14:20 harrison have you tried a dress and lipstick?
14:21 Peacock i see it's your date night again XD
14:21 Peacock but no, i'm not interested
14:21 john_minetest PilzAdam: What name for what option?
14:21 splash left #minetest
14:22 Taoki Hello. Is it possible to use minetest.register_abm on a node category / group, rather than just a specific node?
14:23 rsiska joined #minetest
14:23 PilzAdam Taoki, of course
14:23 Peacock group:groupname
14:23 Peacock instead of mod:nodename
14:23 Taoki Thanks
14:23 Peacock still within the { }
14:24 Peacock john: directional_colored_fog
14:24 john_minetest All vote: http://strawpoll.me/868833
14:24 Peacock (quicker to check the logs than to ask lol)
14:24 kripken release the kripken
14:24 john_minetest Too lazy to use the scrollwheel
14:25 john_minetest *release the kraken
14:25 thexyz I love how strawpoll uses websockets, that's quite some technology
14:25 john_minetest go go go!
14:25 john_minetest Vote all!
14:25 thexyz well how should I vote if I don't care?
14:25 thexyz and if I feel that this is not an important thing
14:26 PilzAdam thexyz, chocolate_thunder
14:26 thexyz and that I think we'd rather merge this instead of arguing
14:26 thexyz which is pointless anyway
14:26 thexyz and only is a waste of time
14:26 john_minetest It is no argue, it is a poll
14:26 PilzAdam having consistent setting names is quite nice
14:26 john_minetest For more participation of the community
14:26 kripken chocolate-covered straw -- a delicious highfiber treat
14:26 thexyz it's impossible to reach agreement in a group consisting of more than 3 people
14:27 Peacock ^
14:27 PilzAdam I guess we all agree that this is IRC
14:27 thexyz Peacock: do you agree?
14:27 Peacock ask 3 people, get 4 opinions
14:27 kripken thexyz: i disagree
14:27 Peacock yeah
14:27 kripken it is quite possible
14:27 thexyz then ask PA and get a completely different opinion
14:27 kripken but one needs a better class of people than found on irc
14:27 john_minetest Come on, chocolate_thunder is just the most descriptive and consistent name.
14:28 Taoki Also: When you specify neighbors in rebister_abm, can you also specify directions? So for example, you can make an ABM only run if air is located above the node, regardless whether air is located around it or under it
14:28 thexyz hm.. dunno
14:28 Peacock taoki you do the check within the function
14:29 thexyz so mean
14:29 Taoki Peacock: ok. So I need to check the nodes around it manually then? And can't use the neighbors list of the register_abm function directionally?
14:29 Peacock neighbours is pretty basic
14:29 Peacock and adding more nodes doesn't mean they all have to be present, neighbours works as OR
14:30 Taoki Yeah, that's what I wasn't sure about
14:30 Taoki So adding nodes to the neighbors list means "if any node in this list surrounds this node", not "node 1 for up, node 2 for front, etc"
14:30 Peacock if you need the air to be in a specific place, you can include it in neighbours to cut down on the number of times you check, then manually check the position
14:30 Taoki Yes
14:30 Peacock neighbours yeah it's any of nodes as neighbour
14:30 Taoki Will do that then, thanks
14:31 Taoki I actually need to do the opposite: Check if air is located either around the node or under it, instead of up :P
14:31 Taoki So I need to check 5 neighboring nodes lol
14:31 Peacock find node in radius might be helpful there
14:31 Peacock or find node in area, and specify a flat area
14:32 Peacock p1/p2  x-/+1, y (no change) z +/-1
14:32 Taoki I'm working on adding sounds to minetest_game, and will be including sounds for flowing water. To know if a water source is flowing, I check if air or flowing liquid exists anywhere by upward, and start looping a sound if so
14:33 Taoki Which will hopefully be an acceptable approach for default
14:33 Peacock as long as it's optional, not everyone has unlimited bandwidth :P and with android clients joining servers, APN's are even more expensive
14:33 Taoki Ahh... I really need to try minetest for Android sometime. Wasn't sure if the screenshots I seen of that were real :)
14:34 Taoki I'll use a cheap check though don't worry
14:35 Peacock i suggested midi's a while back, it's pretty low tech but it matches the voxely nature of the graphics
14:35 Taoki BTW. I can't find Minetest on the Android - Play Store. Just Buildcraft
14:35 Taoki Will it be added there too?
14:35 Peacock i think it is buildcraft
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14:35 Taoki Ah, good then
14:36 Peacock the inhouse port isn't out yet to my knowledge
14:37 Peacock though dont wait too long to DL buildcraft, theres a DMCA against it i think
14:38 Taoki It's open-source, why would there be?
14:38 Taoki It's a Minetest fork
14:38 Peacock apparently the guy never shared his engine changes
14:38 john_minetest See how beautiful minetest is: http://i.imgur.com/Uys5fSY.jpg
14:39 Taoki ahhh, I see
14:39 Taoki john_minetest: Thaaaaanks ^^
14:39 Taoki Peacock: Yes, if it's GPL he legally must keep his changes open-source
14:39 Taoki That's why I love this license hehe
14:40 Peacock though either way, if he releases the code, this community will take over the project from him, and if he doesn't, they'll DMCA his project, so he's better off letting the community do the work themselves on their own port
14:40 Peacock it's LGPL
14:40 Taoki He can remain the admin
14:40 Peacock he has to share his engine changes, not the frontend
14:40 Taoki Ah
14:41 john_minetest I bet the frontend is some stolen open-source one, too.
14:41 thexyz "i bet"
14:41 Peacock well without proof, that's just defamation
14:41 thexyz prove or shut the fuck up
14:43 Peacock see why would the guy play ball when he's already been vilified here lol and all this because he offered free and premium versions
14:43 thexyz no, that's because he didn't release the source code
14:44 Peacock well that time hadn't exactly elapsed before people were outraged at the 3$ premium version and cracked the app
14:44 thexyz it's been more than a month
14:44 Peacock yeah now, but people were pissed off on the first day about the premium version
14:45 Peacock and still, you don't rectify license violations by further breaking the law (cracking), even the FSF wouldn't recommend it lol
14:45 Taoki If someone's using this to make money that's ugly and bad
14:45 Taoki I mean, make money in a dirty way
14:45 Peacock the most ardent free software advocates have always told me there's nothing wrong with selling free software
14:46 Peacock though many in the wider community still seem allergic to any form of commercialism
14:47 Taoki Peacock: If it respects GPL and open-sources what it needs to open-source, and it's not ripping off someone and abusing their work, I don't mind
14:47 Taoki Can't say that putting a premimum version of Minetest on Android automatically sounds like doing something evil. I'd need to know better though
14:48 thexyz Peacock: well, i have to agree to that, most people behaved like asses
14:48 thexyz stupid fucking asses that think everything should be free
14:48 Taoki I'm all for free software and dislike commercial software in general (personal preference). That doesn't mean it's ok to be an ass about it though, so I agree
14:48 MinetestBot GIT: Sapier at GMX dot net commited to minetest/minetest: Add setting to disable direction dependent fog and sky colors c120ea57c9 2013-12-15T06:30:02-08:00 http://git.io/fg6PGw
14:48 MinetestBot GIT: MirceaKitsune commited to minetest/minetest: Directional fog + horizon colors, based on sun & moon positions at sunrise / sunset 848f80b2e5 2013-12-15T05:28:50-08:00 http://git.io/pkuLQQ
14:50 Peacock well, if devs can't earn, they won't be professional devs, just hobbyists. god knows we don't need more lawyers lol
14:51 thexyz wow, finally
14:51 Peacock OoO fog
14:53 thexyz for some reason light behaves... strangely on android
14:54 Peacock i dont suppose that's due to the uber-reflective screens
14:55 thexyz and why the hell are items in hotbar inverted
14:55 Peacock not just inverted, the backgrounds for nodes are blue
14:55 Peacock but tools are transparent :/
14:56 Peacock and in the right direction lol
14:56 Peacock i guess thats why the guy wanted money lol still a few kinks to work out
14:57 Peacock sucks my phone is way too ancient to test this out
14:57 Peacock http://cdn1.smart-gsm.com/pi​cture/samsung-galaxy-550.jpg
14:58 thexyz well in my build backgrounds are okay
14:59 Peacock freeminer on the android, cool :-)
14:59 Peacock i wonder if i can get android-x86 up and running in a VM
15:03 thexyz what's the point?
15:03 thexyz I mean, everyone begs for android port and when the port appears suddenly everyone starts to do crazy shit like this, or running it in an emulator
15:05 thexyz :(
15:07 rubenwardy lol
15:07 john_minetest I haven't got any android device
15:07 john_minetest And I won't buy one.
15:09 harrison nice
15:09 harrison nice
15:09 harrison very nice
15:09 rubenwardy I am getting on for christmas
15:09 rubenwardy *one
15:09 harrison so many people with the same device
15:09 thexyz yes, well, that's really strange
15:10 hmmmm joined #minetest
15:10 thexyz at least I hope I'll do a touch-screen input which will be useful
15:13 rubenwardy I wouldn't get an iOS or Windows device, so android it is
15:13 thexyz it shouldn't be that hard to port to those devices once touchscreen gui is ready
15:14 john_minetest I got a bada device :/
15:14 thexyz the problem is that I don't own any iOS device capable of running this
15:15 thexyz (irrlicht seems to support both iOS and winphone)
15:15 john_minetest I will maybe buy something like a hackberry A10 soon.
15:15 thexyz because it's got "hack" in its name or what?
15:15 Warr1024 joined #minetest
15:16 * Jordach yawns
15:16 Peacock well i'd only run android in an emulator 'cus my phone can't run most decent apps lol
15:16 Peacock (better than forking over hundreds for a new phone i dont need)
15:18 rsiska joined #minetest
15:19 john_minetest thexyz: Because it is faster than the raspberry but still arm and reasonable price.
15:19 john_minetest I want to use it maybe as server.
15:19 thexyz Jordach: have you tested the newest build?
15:22 thexyz building it in a moment
15:22 thexyz it's almost playable now
15:22 thexyz (well, on my screen)
15:24 Taoki Is there an easy way to detect if a liquid source is causing liquid to flow, in a register_abm?
15:24 Taoki With both finite and non-finite liquids
15:25 Taoki For example: Can you use liquid_flowing as a neighbor type in register_abm?
15:25 thexyz there's a quality improvement, you can build now!
15:26 thexyz http://i.imgur.com/gWNVUtG.png
15:26 thexyz here it is: http://a.pomf.se/oarhe.apk
15:27 Miner_48er joined #minetest
15:27 thexyz also I think the controls are now better than in that other android port
15:28 Taoki Anyone know any helpful tips on this? What's the cheapest way to run a register_abm function on a fluid source that's causing liquid to flow?
15:28 rsiska joined #minetest
15:28 Warr1024 Taoki: I did something similar.
15:29 Taoki Warr1024: Any code examples?
15:29 Warr1024 What I did was make sure my mod depended on all mods that include flowing liquids
15:29 Warr1024 then I walked the existing registered nodes and found the ones with the necessary liquidtype.
15:29 Taoki I need to know how register_abm was used to detect these
15:29 Warr1024 not the most elegant, but without groups to complement the liquidtype settings...
15:29 rubenwardy thexyz, is that completely separate to buildcraft?
15:29 rubenwardy (is it freeminer_
15:30 thexyz yes, it is freeminer and it's separate of course because we don't have buildcraft sources
15:30 Warr1024 basically, look for all registered nodes that are the correct liquid type and collect their names into a table.
15:30 thexyz do you mean I shouldn't post this here or what?
15:30 Warr1024 youc an pass that table in to nodenames in an abm: it takes an array.
15:30 rubenwardy I am just wondering
15:31 rubenwardy Will you pull request to Minetest master?
15:31 thexyz dunno, probably not
15:32 thexyz there's a lot of stuff modified
15:32 john_minetest android x86 loads so freaking slow
15:32 thexyz like pull requests merged that aren't in minetest master
15:32 thexyz it won't be too hard to cherry-pick my commits and push them to minetest if anyone wants to do that
15:32 thexyz (I think)
15:34 john_minetest minetest_android should be built from minetest source without much modifications
15:35 thexyz also it's slow
15:35 john_minetest so modifications should  be pushed
15:35 thexyz what do you mean?
15:37 rubenwardy He made it for freeminer, not Minetest
15:39 EmmetCooper joined #minetest
15:46 EmmetCooper left #minetest
15:46 rubenwardy Noob mistake
15:46 Taoki Is it possible to detect how big a flowing water node is, for both finite and non-finite liquids? As in how much water there is there
15:46 Taoki I'm not sure if node "level" works
15:46 rubenwardy I was trying to read array[current_id] where current_id = -1
15:49 john_minetest srsly... android is mad.
15:49 Warr1024 Taoki: if you want to know how big a water flow is, you'll have to do a flood-fill algorithm to recurse through the whole thign.
15:49 Taoki x.x
15:49 Warr1024 Taoki: you'll need to set limits, though, as water flows can be virtually unbounded in size.
15:50 Warr1024 Taoki: also, water flows can merge with those from nearby sources.
15:50 ShadowNinja ~tell reactor You sent five messages in a second. It may have been a issue with your client or lag.
15:50 ShadowBot ShadowNinja: The operation succeeded.
15:50 john_minetest I just tried to modify android... They got an ISO with a squashfs in it with an ext4 in it.
15:52 dhbiker joined #minetest
15:55 thexyz because that's not how you modify android
15:56 thexyz and "they" aren't google, I suppose
15:56 rubenwardy (the Node box editor is almost ready, just bug hunting...)
16:00 iqualfragile rubenwardy: does it finaly compile on archlinux?
16:00 rubenwardy No idea
16:00 rubenwardy I dont have archlinux :P
16:01 rubenwardy Ah found your report
16:01 rubenwardy I will see what I can do with out downloading arch linux
16:02 GNADev|zRokh joined #minetest
16:02 GNADev|zRokh left #minetest
16:03 GNADev|zRokh joined #minetest
16:03 GNADev|zRokh hi
16:03 GNADev|zRokh who has Steam?
16:04 Hirato who doesn't?
16:04 GNADev|zRokh true... :D
16:04 GNADev|zRokh aaanyways.... i think i have THE best friend anybody could have :P
16:04 GNADev|zRokh i got my xmas gift early from him, and guess what it was
16:05 GNADev|zRokh Counter-Strike, Counter-Strike : Condition Zero and Counter-Strike : Condition Zero Deleted Scenes
16:06 GNADev|zRokh three of my most favourite games ever! :D
16:07 GNADev|zRokh Hirato: what's your steam? i'll add you :D
16:07 GNADev|zRokh or add me in stead :D
16:08 PilzAdam GNADev|zRokh, why are you offtopic again?
16:08 GNADev|zRokh http://www.steamcommunity.com/id/dicks_n_half
16:08 GNADev|zRokh because its christmas! :D
16:08 GNADev|zRokh nuff said :D
16:08 GNADev|zRokh and im happy
16:09 Hirato eek
16:10 GNADev|zRokh what?
16:10 Hirato merry christmas to you https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ThKV_G4VxI :P
16:10 john_minetest Chrismas is not yet
16:10 GNADev|zRokh well its not far away either
16:10 sfan5 !title
16:10 MinetestBot sfan5: Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer illustrates the worst of humanity. - YouTube
16:10 Hirato :P
16:10 Hirato sometimes I think sfan5 only ever reads the titles to infer the full content of the video
16:10 rubenwardy I blocked GNADev|zRokh, so I am happy
16:11 sfan5 john_minetest: but they started broadcasting rudolph the red-node reindeer and jungle bells on TV already
16:11 sfan5 >red-node reindeer
16:11 sfan5 uhh
16:11 Hirato he's a cubic meter block in minecraft
16:11 Hirato like nyan cat
16:12 PilzAdam GNADev|zRokh, spoiler: Santa Claus doesnt exist
16:12 GNADev|zRokh DONT YOU SAY THAT!!!
16:13 GNADev|zRokh LIAR!!!
16:13 GNADev|zRokh I SAW HIM!!! HE IS REAL!!!
16:13 markveidemanis joined #minetest
16:13 markveidemanis joined #minetest
16:13 markveidemanis left #minetest
16:15 Hirato so didn't anyone watch it? :(
16:15 sfan5 Hirato: http://i.imgur.com/qfp6lln.png
16:15 GNADev|zRokh nope...
16:16 GNADev|zRokh downloading, so cant watch anything :P
16:16 Hirato hahaha
16:16 GNADev|zRokh my connection sucks...
16:16 Hirato this needs to be immortalised somewhere
16:17 GNADev|zRokh wait.... Horatio >> CSI?
16:17 GNADev|zRokh i just got that :D
16:17 * GNADev|zRokh 's tooth aches
16:17 Hirato this name was produced by a random name generator back in April 2004
16:18 GNADev|zRokh oh.... i thought it was horatio, it wasnt :D
16:18 GNADev|zRokh sorry dood... :D
16:18 GNADev|zRokh but dood, add me! becaus im gonna go now, to speed up my connection :P
16:18 Hirato since then, some other twats have started to call themselves hirato, based on a manga series named Karneval that was released in 2007 -_-
16:19 Hirato blatant plagiarism!
16:19 GNADev|zRokh left #minetest
16:20 rubenwardy lol, sfan5
16:20 rubenwardy Can I add that to cafepress?
16:20 sfan5 I don't think anyone will buy that.. but go ahead
16:20 sfan5 but you should smooth the edges of the screenshot before
16:21 nore sfan5, is that mg in the screenshot?
16:21 sfan5 nore: yes
16:22 sfan5 the textures are run through xbrz
16:22 nore what is that?
16:23 Esteban joined #minetest
16:25 iqualfragile oh wow, that new mesa upgrade realy helped a lot
16:25 Calinou joined #minetest
16:29 sfan5 nore: google is your friend... anyway, I player some MT on my computer yesterday (and was using mg) and my friend(who hates MT) said the villages are bigger and have more variation than MC
16:29 sfan5 played*
16:29 Miner_48er joined #minetest
16:29 FreeFull Why does he hate MT?
16:29 sfan5 because it is not MC
16:30 sfan5 basically the typical MC fanboy
16:30 iqualfragile FreeFull: isnt it obvious? its ripping of mc and looks worse
16:30 iqualfragile and generaly worse
16:30 rubenwardy_ joined #minetest
16:30 Hirato minetest's a work in progress :p
16:31 splash joined #minetest
16:32 rubenwardy Time to make the windows build, update the cmake file, and git push!
16:32 Hirato fix the OpenGLES thing first!
16:32 Hirato why do you hate nvidia users ;)
16:32 qwebirc71400 joined #minetest
16:33 rubenwardy Who are you talking to?
16:34 rubenwardy brb
16:34 rubenwardy (I will check log)
16:35 thexyz and is slower too
16:35 Hirato you'd think all of thes ewould be impossible for a C++ program compared against Java :p
16:36 iqualfragile its slower?
16:36 thexyz yeah what could go wrong
16:37 thexyz the server definitely is
16:37 thexyz with Minecraft you can have a lot of players if you have a lot of RAM
16:37 thexyz with Minetest you can't have a lot of players
16:38 Hirato and gameplay remains smooth, as opposed to constantly fluctuatign between 15-60 FPS :P
16:39 Calinou <sfan5> nore: google is your friend...
16:39 Calinou it is not
16:39 Calinou thexyz, isn't that caused by servers having too many mods mainly?
16:39 Calinou especially mods that change mapgen
16:41 thexyz Calinou: try to host 100 players on a "minimal" game
16:41 thexyz if you think that mods are the only problem
16:42 nore sfan5, http://nore.mesecons.net/screenshot_4049932325.png
16:42 iqualfragile thexyz: have you ever benchmarked that issue?
16:42 Calinou is that lag purely CPU-related or network-related?
16:42 nore ^ if you want really big villages...
16:42 thexyz iqualfragile: profiled or what?
16:42 iqualfragile fuck, yes, i meant to say profiled
16:43 thexyz Calinou: well, it seems to eat 100% of CPU but not sure why
16:43 thexyz minetest in general suffers from NIH syndrome
16:43 thexyz (= not-invented-here)
16:43 Jordach joined #minetest
16:43 sfan5 nore: lol
16:43 Jordach evening
16:43 thexyz we've got our very own TCP running over UDP, for example
16:43 Gethiox joined #minetest
16:44 nore I still haven't been able to get around the village
16:44 nore (it is commanded by perlin noise...)
16:44 Calinou is that TCP thingy actually used? I thought it was using UDP
16:44 Calinou (by default)
16:44 thexyz well, it's "tcp"
16:44 thexyz as in, we use udp but implemet tcp features over it
16:45 thexyz like reliability and order
16:45 thexyz and for some reason I think that TCP does this better
16:45 webdesigner97 joined #minetest
16:45 rubenwardy joined #minetest
16:45 webdesigner97 hi
16:45 webdesigner97 is there a way to use a nodebox as the visual of an entity?
16:46 iqualfragile thexyz: yes, that is in fact stupid, but udp has its usecases
16:46 * sfan5 puts a santa hat on Jordach
16:46 sfan5 !voice Jordach
16:46 Hirato heh, please tell me you use a library like enet :P
16:46 Warr1024 udp does have one disadvantage in being more difficult to proxy.
16:46 Hirato !op Hirato
16:46 Hirato :(
16:46 thexyz it does but we're doing it wrong anyway
16:46 sfan5 Hirato: no we don't
16:46 Jordach !op Jordach
16:47 sfan5 !deop Jordach
16:47 Hirato :D
16:47 Jordach and i'm almost god here
16:47 Jordach <3 you MinetestBot :P
16:47 sfan5 <3 MinetestBot
16:47 MinetestBot <3 sfan5
16:47 Calinou it doesn't use enet, Hirato
16:47 Hirato !halfop Jordach
16:47 sfan5 Hirato: there are no halfops at freenode
16:47 Jordach we're not QuakeNet
16:47 thexyz > god
16:47 Calinou Warr1024, it's not like people use proxies on games for things other than ban evasion?
16:47 thexyz > doesn't even have +F
16:47 rubenwardy webdesigner: wielditem?
16:47 Hirato er, quakenet most definitely doesn't do halfops :P
16:47 sfan5 Calinou: if I want to use my cellular connection I'm forced to go behind a proxy
16:47 * Jordach has seen them somewhere
16:48 Calinou ah
16:48 nore sfan5, the code's here: https://github.com/Novatux/mg/tree/village_mapgen
16:48 Warr1024 Calinou: There are other non-standard network situations that you might see in private servers, where VPN's may not be feasible for instance...
16:48 thexyz anyone to rewrite minetest network implementation?
16:48 webdesigner97 wielditem? need to search fot this
16:49 Hirato I'm not knowledgeable enough about network stuff
16:49 Evolykane joined #minetest
16:49 thexyz it's not that hard you just replace udp by tcp and remove builtin reliable stuff
16:49 thexyz right?
16:49 Warr1024 that built-in reliable stuff isn't actually always that reliable...
16:49 Hirato I'd just chuck in libenet and have ti take care of things :D
16:50 Hirato multi-channel communique, optional reliable messages
16:50 sfan5 nore: It's sad that you can't do high-res screenshots with MT
16:50 thexyz Warr1024: yes, because network stuff is hard, I guess
16:50 thexyz but just replace it with TCP and everything's fine, right?
16:51 Warr1024 yeah, there's gotta be a 3rd-party library out there that handles this abstraction reasonably well...
16:51 Hirato TCP is undesirable for game stuff
16:51 Hirato just use enet :P
16:51 nore sfan5, a bit... but I already had only 3 fps, so with bigger resolution, it would be horrible...
16:51 Hirato </shill>
16:51 webdesigner97 ok, how does this wielditem thing work?
16:51 Warr1024 TCP isn't all that bad, really, esp. if you don't have a lot of unreliable messages.
16:51 Warr1024 MC got a lot of milage out of TCP, and it worked pretty well, against the odds.
16:51 Calinou I wonder, is it really hard to do?
16:52 Calinou I think so
16:52 sfan5 well.. we could improve the current situation if we wouldn't send every packet as reliable
16:52 Calinou that could work, maybe a minetest.conf setting to send less reliable packets
16:52 thexyz and while we're at it someone should also implement threaded lua
16:52 Calinou sounds like you're doing sarcasm here
16:53 thexyz and also profile minetest under heavy load
16:53 thexyz because I'm busy with android D:
16:53 Hirato can we fix the OpenGLES thing first, it's hurting the nvidia guys like me :P
16:53 thexyz Calinou: why? threaded lua is cool
16:54 Calinou Hirato, what openglES thingh?
16:54 thexyz just make a pool of lua interpreters and send callbacks to them instead of executing everything in a single lua thread while also locking everything else
16:54 Calinou -h
16:54 Calinou I thought lua threading was impossible?
16:54 thexyz why?
16:54 thexyz it's already here, in the main menu
16:54 Calinou oh
16:54 thexyz and I think it works like I described, didn't look into it though
16:54 Warr1024 lua threading within a single context is impossible.
16:54 Warr1024 if you have multiple independent contexts, it works ok
16:54 Hirato Calinou: the minetest binary is linked against OpenGLESv2.so, this is responsible for this https://dl.dropboxusercontent​.com/u/23891252/minetest.png
16:55 thexyz yes, you'll need some way to get access to global data
16:55 thexyz you can also have global data shared and use built-in lua threading but that's gonna suck because there will be GIL and therefore no performance improvements
16:55 Hirato all the GL calls go to no-op functions
16:55 thexyz why the hell is it linked against openglesv2.so?
16:56 thexyz kill your maintainer or something
16:56 Hirato beats me, see line 173 of src/CMakeLists.txt
16:56 Calinou Hirato, no problem here
16:56 Calinou harsh linux problems :-D
16:56 thexyz it only does that if opengles is installed
16:56 Calinou oh
16:56 thexyz why is it installed if you don't use it?
16:56 thexyz not just "don't use", if it doesn't work
16:57 * Hirato goes to see what package it belongs to... just need to find the syntax
16:57 Hirato owned by mesa 9.2.5
16:57 w_laenger joined #minetest
16:58 thexyz well just remove it
16:58 Hirato that will purge KDe, texlive, and a whole hear of other crpa, nothx
16:58 thexyz meh you don't need those anyway
16:59 Hirato considering irrlicht doesn't even have GLES support anyway, why explicitly link it in the first place?
16:59 iqualfragile if somebody rewrites the minetest network code it should be done right
16:59 Calinou easier said than done
16:59 Calinou have fun rewriting anything related to a game :/
16:59 iqualfragile as in using udp for particle spawns, starting to play sounds and animations and transfering entity prositions/movements
17:00 thexyz celeron55 has some branches with tcp rewrite
17:00 thexyz i even remember testing some of them
17:00 Jordach Hirato, KDE suck
17:00 Jordach s*
17:00 iqualfragile and tcp for media and mapblock transfers and changes
17:00 thexyz just use tcp for reliable and udp for non-reliable stuff
17:00 rubenwardy That was annoying
17:00 thexyz and I don't know how much non-reliable stuff is there, actually
17:00 rubenwardy Cmake done on ubuntu now
17:01 thexyz also don't use cmake
17:01 Calinou non-reliable stuff: entity/player positions, dig/build/attack...?
17:01 Warr1024 tcp+udp has a disadvantage in making it harder to punch holes in a firewall.
17:01 thexyz twice as harder
17:01 Hirato just do it over UDP
17:01 Hirato enet!
17:02 Calinou ...says the cube 2 developer :>
17:02 thexyz Hirato: what's the point of using it instead of TCP?
17:02 thexyz cube 2?
17:02 Calinou Hirato does a lot of stuff related to cube 2, usually
17:02 Calinou which uses enet
17:02 Hirato I am being a shameless shill, haha
17:02 Hirato enet is over UDP, and implements some TCP functionality, like reliable packets
17:03 thexyz oh, it's FPS
17:03 Calinou sauerbraten/red eclipse/tesseract/(assault cube... that's cube 1 but still uses enet)
17:03 Calinou these games have quite a low ping and bandwidth requirements
17:03 thexyz Hirato: and why's that better than TCP?
17:04 Hirato TCP by its very definition requires everything to be reliable AND in order
17:04 Hirato which for a MP game is... undesirable
17:04 Hirato especially fast-paced twitchy ones like sauer
17:04 Calinou <Hirato> which for a MP game is... undesirable
17:04 Calinou it is fine for a turn based game :p
17:05 thexyz ah, so we could have reliable out-of-order packets?
17:05 thexyz hm.. not sure, somebody should try it
17:05 Hirato nah, I think reliable packets are delivered in order, that's kind of the point :P
17:05 Calinou what about trying to do what sfan5 said in the first place? set more stuff as non-reliable
17:05 Calinou and see the results
17:05 thexyz Hirato: care to rewrite everything? <3
17:05 Hirato point is, making everything reliable is kind of going to introduce lag
17:06 thexyz Calinou: well my point is that minetest network stack (probably) sucks
17:06 Hirato I'll have a shot at it if you'll fix the OpenGLes linking :p
17:06 Hirato just remove src/CMakeList.txt:173, done :p
17:06 Warr1024 left #minetest
17:06 thexyz eh, should at proller then
17:06 thexyz I think he added it
17:06 Hirato git blame!
17:07 iqualfragile actualy minetest has a valid usecase for reliable out of order: block changes
17:07 iqualfragile it does not matter in which order they arive, they just need to arive
17:07 thexyz it does matter if that's a single position
17:07 Hirato I'm not too sure of how enet's reliable stuff works, I think it's based on a per-channel basis
17:07 thexyz iqualfragile: are you willing to profile the shit out of the server?
17:08 iqualfragile thexyz: i thought about doing that, yes
17:08 thexyz https://code.google.com/p/shinyprofiler/
17:08 thexyz first link in googl
17:08 thexyz e
17:08 Hirato 10c03e1a (proller             2013-03-02 20:44:08 +0400 173) find_package(OpenGLES2)
17:08 thexyz just launch the server with minimal game and spawn 100 bots
17:09 thexyz there was a script to do that written by proller
17:09 rubenwardy left #minetest
17:09 thexyz "it's so good there are no docs"
17:11 Evolykane joined #minetest
17:16 Hirato also, when are you guys going to fix the "mod configuration" to also list mods inside /usr/share/minetest/mods :p
17:18 Jordach ...why am i voiced
17:18 Jordach it feels like a roast...
17:18 Calinou a roast pony
17:18 Hirato just in time for christmas!
17:19 Jordach http://i.imgur.com/1CH3pXt.png
17:19 Jordach 0.4.9 will be released soon with the model sporting a santa hat
17:19 rubenwardy joined #minetest
17:22 Jordach oh crap
17:22 Jordach 0.5.x is coming soon :D
17:22 rubenwardy crap?
17:22 rubenwardy why crap?
17:22 Hirato release 0.4.10 to spite Jordach
17:22 Jordach Hirato, >forks Cube 2, >creates cube2.1 and incompatibles it to cube 2
17:27 w_laenger btw, at the moment I'm playing sauerbraten
17:27 Hirato I did it before voxels were cool!
17:29 rubenwardy building windows version...
17:29 w_laenger muon killed me
17:33 thexyz shit, minetest-stress will never be finished
17:34 nore why?
17:34 splash left #minetest
17:34 thexyz dunno, so many fun things around
17:34 thexyz no time to get anything finished
17:36 Calinou what is minetest-stress?
17:37 Evolykane joined #minetest
17:38 thexyz https://github.com/xyzz/minetest-stress
17:38 Hirato lol, autogened villages in snow biome, the torches melt the snow and make water
17:38 thexyz a jquery-like thing
17:40 nore Hirato, you use mg?
17:40 Hirato just installed it
17:40 iqualfragile thexyz: what does it do?
17:40 nore didn't know torches melted snow... that's new
17:40 thexyz it makes coding mods less of a pain
17:40 Hirato why is local play so laggy :(
17:41 john_minetest Yeah. It is extreme lag
17:41 nore Hirato, generally, or just with mg?
17:41 rubenwardy wooooo! https://github.com/rubenwardy/The-NodeBox-Generato​r/commit/c553df8e10f40e02dec312b61f6f424ae760ca84
17:41 Hirato generally
17:42 Hirato I sohuldn't have to wait 5 seconds for a door to open :(
17:42 rubenwardy !title https://forum.minetest.net/vie​wtopic.php?pid=122141#p122141
17:42 MinetestBot rubenwardy: [Editor] Nodebox Editor [0.6.0 -!- rewrite, save/load] (Page 7) — Minetest-related projects — Mi[...]
17:42 webdesigner97 joined #minetest
17:42 nore do you use LuaJIT?
17:42 Hirato of course
17:42 Mati^1 joined #minetest
17:42 Hirato framerate's fine
17:42 rubenwardy ^ Jordach, kaeza, VanessaE, iqualfragile
17:42 nore idk then...
17:42 thexyz because it's minetest
17:42 Hirato networking!
17:43 Hirato local sockets1
17:43 Calinou local play never was laggy for me
17:43 thexyz I don't think this is the only problem
17:43 Calinou Hirato, what mods do you use?
17:43 thexyz tfw accidentally `ndk-build clean`
17:43 Hirato I noticed it had support for moretrees, so I enabled that
17:43 thexyz (now it's cool to say minetest is slow, deal with it)
17:43 Hirato aside from that, mesecons, and your moreblocks one
17:43 john_minetest Gah, rubenwardy left
17:44 nore Hirato, it is _very_ limited support for now (only rubber trees since those are needed in technic)
17:44 iqualfragile nore: minetest is more or less unusable without luajit
17:44 Hirato my PKGBUILD can make packages for a bunch more
17:44 thexyz more multithreading
17:44 Hirato technic? as in RBA's thing?
17:44 thexyz less locks
17:44 Hirato more UDP!
17:44 nore iqualfragile, I know... especially CPU-intensive mods such as technic or mg
17:44 iqualfragile or mobf
17:44 iqualfragile especialy mobf
17:44 thexyz less NIH
17:44 nore Hirato, yep... it also supports technic and moreores
17:44 thexyz more actually tested stuff
17:45 Hirato I think it's just the emerge thread interfering i nthe background
17:45 nore (you should try to mine a bit, the ore distribution is not the same as usually...)
17:45 w_laenger left #minetest
17:45 Hirato assumnig there arne't race conditions and shit i nthe netcode
17:46 zat Is there some way to determine why minetestserver is always > 90% of CPU?
17:46 zat --verbose or --trace dont reveal much.
17:47 ShadowNinja zat: Mod?
17:48 Hirato so what does technic do except minecraft-like drops?
17:48 nore add a lot of electric machines
17:49 zat You say it can be in lua?
17:49 nore and things for automation (so you can do auto-mining-and-crafting factories...)
17:54 Taoki Is it possible to use negatives in the neighbors field of minetest.register_abm? So an abm can execute only if a node does NOT have the neighbors listed
17:55 VanessaE hi
17:55 zat No ShadowNinja, I disabled all mods and still over 90% CPU.
17:56 Hirato valgrind it
17:56 Hirato make a debug build too while you're at it
17:56 thexyz why valgrind?
17:56 Hirato oh right, derp, callgrind!
17:56 Hirato profile it!
17:57 Hirato gprof I think?
17:57 thexyz yes, we've already decided iqualfragile's doing that
17:59 iqualfragile we did?
17:59 Hirato also lol, standard UTF-8 BOMs break minetest's text parsing
17:59 iqualfragile ok, finishing one film, then i will get started
17:59 iqualfragile i might ask you to join a server for profiling
17:59 thexyz with bots?
17:59 thexyz i have this script somewhere so sure
17:59 thexyz (and 32gb of useless ram)
18:00 thexyz Hirato: minetest's text parsing is broken anyway
18:00 thexyz should just use utf-8
18:00 thexyz instead we have a nice mix of wstring, 8-bytes string and a lot of "helpers" to convert between them
18:00 Hirato lol
18:00 thexyz (wstring is actually ucs-2)
18:01 thexyz and when something doesn't work well someone just adds narrow_to_wide or wide_to_narrow call or some shit like this
18:01 Hirato lol
18:01 Hirato I see mg doesn't work well with finite liquid
18:01 thexyz but I think irrlicht internally uses wstring too?
18:02 Hirato double lol at liquids floating atop small nodes
18:02 zat ShadowNinja: You know what else can I do to check what is slowing down the server that much.
18:02 nore Hirato, what happens with finite liquids?
18:03 Hirato nore: this https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u​/23891252/screenshot_4151001440.jpg
18:03 nore in a snow village?
18:03 john_minetest Hirato: What TP do you use?
18:03 thexyz why can't we just make minetest run fast :(
18:03 Hirato TP?
18:03 john_minetest texture pack
18:03 Hirato oh, that's RBA's
18:03 john_minetest It looks cool.
18:03 john_minetest Ah, haventP.
18:03 john_minetest *havenTP
18:04 Hirato nore: notice the tall thing surorunded by torches, I suspect this was initially a fountain
18:04 Jordach santa model in testing, please create a character.png in your /textures/<packname>/
18:04 Jordach <MinetestBot> 5.81.192.35:30000 is up (129ms)
18:05 Hirato it just.. overflowed due to finite liquid
18:05 nore yes, it was... indeed, finite liquids cause problems with it
18:06 Hirato I have an idea for finite liquids to help it stabilise a bit
18:06 Jordach john_minetest, you busy?
18:07 Hirato allow a waterflow node to randomly add a little bit to a neighbouring node with less liquid than it
18:07 Hirato so you don't end up with water/lava 'hills' if you will
18:11 Hirato hmm.. is the debug/profilier text meant to disappear whilst the creative mode inventory is generating previews?
18:12 rambomedic joined #minetest
18:12 john_minetest Jordach: Not very
18:12 Miner_48er joined #minetest
18:13 thexyz oh wow
18:13 thexyz DATABASE
18:13 thexyz DATABASE
18:13 thexyz JUST LIVING IN THE DATABASE
18:14 Hirato weeaboo detected
18:14 thexyz I love you too
18:14 Hirato <3
18:15 thexyz says a guy with that nick
18:15 Hirato joke's on you, this nick came out of a random name generator
18:16 thexyz is that a guy from a girlie animu?
18:21 Hirato you're only hating because I use VLC
18:25 john_minetest thexyz: Living in a magazine
18:25 topcyde joined #minetest
18:25 Hirato IN DA MAGAZINE, MAGAZINE, JUST LIVING IN THE MAGAZINE, WHOA OH!
18:26 Jordach PilzAdam, did the multiple material support get merged?
18:26 john_minetest Hirato: More like http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7Y4Abtf7_A
18:26 thexyz Hirato: you're still using VLC?
18:26 thexyz stop right now
18:27 Hirato Stop right there, Criminal Scum, you violated my mother!
18:27 thexyz almost managed to get to the bottom on proller's server using Android build
18:27 thexyz it's harder without sneaking
18:28 Hirato have you guys considered making leaves non-solid? which is to say, it slows down movement and can't be walked on
18:29 john_minetest lol, VLC. Good on windows but for linux it is crap. So many tools that are much better.
18:29 thexyz some games do that
18:29 thexyz no, actually
18:29 thexyz VLC is okayish tier on Linux and is crap on windows
18:29 thexyz (what I heard)
18:29 EvergreenTree joined #minetest
18:29 thexyz not considering its interface
18:29 thexyz which is equally shitty
18:29 Hirato only true for prehistoric versions of VLC
18:29 thexyz dunno, maybe
18:29 Hirato Qt masterrace, mofo!
18:30 thexyz I've been told it's got much better
18:30 thexyz but still, interface seems weird to me
18:30 thexyz especially since keybindings are different in window/fullscreen modes
18:30 Hirato they are?
18:30 thexyz I heard they were
18:30 thexyz not using it
18:30 Hirato I wouldn't notice, only one I ever use is pause :p
18:31 thexyz https://www.google.com/search?site=&amp;tbm=​isch&amp;source=hp&amp;biw=1920&amp;bih=966&​amp;q=site%3Airc.minetest.ru+vlc&amp;oq=site​%3Airc.minetest.ru+vlc&amp;gs_l=img.3...809.​3942.0.4103.24.6.0.18.0.0.125.455.5j1.6.0...​.0...1ac.1.32.img..19.5.407.TamvjLuK9iA
18:31 Taoki Hello. I figured out how to loop a sound at a node's position properly. However, is there a way to make a looped sound stop when you break that node? Without intensive checks
18:31 thexyz > first image
18:32 rambomedic Taoki shouldn't you ask that on the dev channel?
18:32 thexyz also this http://i.imgur.com/kUzlm.jpg
18:32 Hirato lol
18:32 Taoki That's mostly for development discussion, not modding questions
18:32 rambomedic thexyz lol why does minetest show up in the results for that?
18:32 thexyz because there's site:irc.minetest.ru
18:32 rambomedic oh
18:32 rambomedic my bad
18:32 rambomedic lol
18:33 Taoki thexyz: VLC isn't happy with the garden God created
18:33 thexyz vlc isn't happy with gg subs
18:33 Taoki Strange that subtitles also corrupt the image
18:33 thexyz I remember them using something to fuck up subtitles display in VLC
18:33 Hirato Hmmm... weird
18:33 thexyz or not display at all
18:33 Hirato if they're all on the exact same frame, why is MPC and Mplayer different?
18:34 thexyz because they aren't
18:34 ShadowNinja zat: No, I only had a issue with mesecons eating CPU.
18:34 Hirato that's stone age VLC anyway
18:34 thexyz oh okay
18:35 Hirato Hmmm... June 2011.. not that stone age
18:36 thexyz even vlc release notes have animu reference
18:36 sfan5 !g vlc release notes
18:36 thexyz how do you feel using weeaboo player?
18:36 MinetestBot sfan5: http://www.videolan.org/vlc/releases/2.1.0.html
18:36 thexyz 3rd image
18:36 zat ShadowNinja: damn it
18:36 zat Now that we are chatting... for what version was the sqlite rollback included for?
18:37 rambomedic woah sfan5 what did you just do
18:37 rambomedic !g owncloud release notes
18:37 MinetestBot rambomedic: http://owncloud.org/changelog/
18:37 sfan5 rambomedic: magic
18:37 ShadowNinja zat: It's in 0.4.8-dev.
18:38 rambomedic sfan5 does it just give you the link to the first google result of the search?
18:38 zat ShadowNinja: tagged 0.4.8?
18:38 ShadowNinja zat: It apparently has a issue when creating a new world from the CLI though.
18:38 sfan5 rambomedic: yes
18:38 sfan5 !help
18:38 MinetestBot https://github.com/sfan5/minetestb​ot-modules/blob/master/COMMANDS.md
18:38 sfan5 see there for more
18:38 Hirato I get the feeling these so called "10-bit" encodings people do wren't exactly very VLC friendly ages back
18:38 rambomedic !c 2+2
18:38 MinetestBot IndexError: list index out of range (file "/home/user/mtbot/modules/calc.py", line 46, in c)
18:38 ShadowNinja zat: No, after 0.4.8, unrelesed.
18:38 rambomedic I broke it sfan5
18:38 sfan5 rambomedic: c is currently broken
18:39 sfan5 I'll fix it
18:39 thexyz 20:38 <@       JEEB> | the pic j-b put on the release page is https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/175​558/screenshots/vlc/vlc-2.1.0-kara2.png
18:39 thexyz 20:38 <@       JEEB> | :D
18:39 thexyz 20:39 <@       JEEB> | he had asked for some fancy subtitle pics
18:39 zat ShadowNinja: you mean it isn't in git yet?
18:39 thexyz "we've updated our libass let's write about it in release notes"
18:40 thexyz sfan5: also there's a section "for anime fans"
18:40 thexyz on that page
18:40 Peacock libass, hmm.... naw, too easy :P
18:40 sfan5 thexyz: seen that already
18:40 ShadowNinja zat: It's in git, but it isn't in a release yet.
18:41 PilzAdam Jordach, umm.... IIRC it was removed again
18:41 thexyz it's not that bad, especially on android where decent video players do not exist
18:41 Jordach ugh
18:41 Jordach oh
18:41 john_minetest "feelings have come in line" ... inline assembler reference?
18:41 Jordach OH
18:42 thexyz > YFW buildcraft has more than 50k installs
18:42 john_minetest So we can do that, too!
18:42 sfan5 thexyz: it is not bad on iOS either, but it can't use hardware accel. because apple doesn't allow it
18:42 Peacock YFW, IIRC, i wish the channel topic had a glossary of acronyms lol
18:43 thexyz sfan5: yes, I know
18:43 thexyz Peacock: check chat logs
18:43 thexyz they can that!
18:43 sfan5 it even chokes on 720p
18:43 thexyz http://irc.minetest.ru/min​etest/2013-12-15#i_3494888
18:43 sfan5 but with the native res (1136x790) it works perfectly
18:43 Hirato hah, my netbook can handle full HD with VLC
18:43 thexyz sfan5: you shouldn't expect to watch quality on your tablet
18:43 thexyz be it android or ios
18:43 sfan5 Hirato: netbook != iPod touch
18:43 Hirato that's a weak-ass Atom CPU
18:43 thexyz "full hd"
18:44 thexyz without stating bitrate
18:44 thexyz without stating anything
18:44 thexyz how about 4k 10-bit?
18:44 Hirato full HD == 1080p @ 60Hz, what more needs to be said?
18:44 Calinou @ 60hz?
18:44 thexyz well, videos are usually 24p
18:44 Calinou "full HD" doesn't say anything about hertz
18:44 Peacock netbook 1/4 price of ipad lol
18:44 Calinou sometimes 30p
18:44 Calinou game videos are often 25 or 30p
18:44 thexyz Hirato: video codec settings
18:44 Jordach PilzAdam, multiple materials do work
18:44 thexyz I had that 4k sample somewhere..
18:45 Hirato beats me, all I know is it's h264
18:45 thexyz I think it ate 400-600% of CPU
18:45 Hirato but that's beside the point
18:45 thexyz well, that's not much
18:45 sfan5 Hirato: 'avconv -i <videofile>' and paste that somewhere
18:45 rambomedic Do you think mod developers would be happier developing for minetest rather than minecraft? Sure minetest has native support for mods, and is open source, and you don't have to wait 3 months-post release, and your mod doesn't get broken every release, but does the popularity of the java language outweigh all those benefits?
18:45 thexyz if it's level 4.2 then it can be hardware decoded by every single android usb stick
18:45 Hirato this itty bitty netbook with a 1.5GHz CPU and an Intel GMA 845 GPU can play it without losing any frames
18:45 sfan5 rambomedic: it's not the populatrity of java but MC itself
18:46 thexyz rambomedic: it's much easier but the problem with Minetest are lags and also you can't do fun stuff you can with native mods
18:46 sfan5 popularity*
18:46 Hirato Java's pretty unpopular
18:46 Peacock besides poaching MC modders might bring some unwanted attention lol
18:47 thexyz like this mod http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/72872​7-181-mine-upside-down-03-the-other-side/
18:47 Peacock and any of the mc modders who use/ask for donates are obviously going to want to dev for the game with the biggest userbase
18:47 thexyz hm.. how much do they "earn" actually?
18:48 rambomedic I doubt there's anyone living off of minecraft mods
18:48 Peacock can't tell, but ive seen a few donateware mods on there
18:49 Peacock i guess you'd have to ask them how much they get
18:49 sfan5 thexyz: many use adf.ly which gives 2 dollar/1000 clicks IIRC
18:49 thexyz not cool
18:49 Renoki joined #minetest
18:49 Hirato https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aRdcptG365I relevant
18:49 sfan5 !title
18:49 MinetestBot sfan5: Most awkward moments at Minecon 2013 - YouTube
18:49 sfan5 >how much money do you have?
18:49 sfan5 hahahaha
18:50 sfan5 that was enough.. now back to spotify
18:50 Hirato I liked the second one best
18:54 Peacock is that like the Special Olympics edition of Minecon?
18:55 rambomedic no that's minecon
18:55 Peacock good lord, let's hope they never come here lol
18:55 rambomedic a bunch of slobbering 12-year olds whose entire lives consist of a subpar-execution of a really great idea.
18:55 thexyz http://dl.dropboxusercontent.com​/u/6566435/Canvas/dash/dash.htm
18:56 Hirato rambomedic: but you'll get girls who invite you to their servers with business cards!
18:56 Peacock judging from the weight of alot of those kids, you'd think all they do is play MC lol
18:57 rambomedic Hirato: *their dads' server.
18:57 w_laenger joined #minetest
18:57 Hirato semantics
18:57 thexyz ShadowNinja: please make your bot post link to http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_D_Z-D2tzi14/S8TRIo​4br3I/AAAAAAAACv4/Zh7_GcMlRKo/s400/ALOT.png every time someone says "alot"
18:57 thexyz wait, there's a quality version http://i1.kym-cdn.com/entries/ico​ns/original/000/007/044/ALOT.png
18:57 MinetestBot GIT: PilzAdam commited to minetest/minetest: Remove an unused function and include from client.cpp 5fd92d67d5 2013-12-15T10:57:08-08:00 http://git.io/pYRaVg
18:57 w_laenger you need to use a shorten link
18:58 thexyz I'll leave this as a task for him
19:01 Jordach thexyz, come join 5.81.192.35 with your droid client
19:01 Jordach or anyone else even: we've got santa hats on!
19:02 thexyz doing that
19:02 Jordach *** lagfest joins the game
19:02 thexyz loading media, brb in an hour
19:03 * Jordach wonders how much Jordach's 500kb upload can handle
19:03 thexyz it's actually quite fast
19:03 thexyz (because there's no media I guess)
19:04 thexyz or everything is cached already
19:04 Jordach ohai sfan5
19:04 sfan5 Jordach: how did you?
19:04 Jordach nyankitty sounds like you
19:04 sfan5 :D
19:04 Jordach ...and you've used it before
19:05 thexyz still loading
19:06 Jordach w_laenger, i see you've joined :P
19:07 sfan5 Jordach: 'another client is connected with this name'
19:07 Jordach sfan5, 19:07:21: ERROR[ServerThread]: Server: nyankitty: Failed to emerge player (player allocated to an another client)
19:07 Jordach rejoin now
19:09 thexyz still can't connect
19:09 thexyz by the way, I think the server should kick client when you rejoin, not kick you with that message
19:10 thexyz still loading media
19:10 thexyz nice .ogg sounds I won't even be able to play
19:10 sfan5 Y U NO remote_media
19:12 thexyz becuz no curl in android build
19:12 thexyz also, I dig blocks but they don't appear in my inventory hotbar
19:12 thexyz wtf?
19:14 thexyz ADMIN PLZ HALP
19:14 Jordach you have shout and interact
19:15 thexyz oh I'll never understand this game
19:16 thexyz anyway, it's unplayable for me now
19:16 thexyz you should donate to get me better device to develop minetest for android
19:17 thexyz oh, wait, it's creative, right?
19:17 Jordach thexyz, for 50 euros you can get a shitty chinese unmarked tablet that performs with 20fps on multiplayer
19:17 Jordach because my mother has one of those
19:17 thexyz 20fps
19:17 Jordach thexyz, some people on PC get less
19:17 Peacock for an extra 10 euro you can get the chinese that made it too :P
19:17 thexyz and you have only tested build with -O3
19:17 thexyz and I need to do -O0 -g
19:18 thexyz to successfully develop minetest, that is
19:18 thexyz how much is galaxy s5?
19:20 sfan5 thexyz: just use an odroid
19:20 Peacock Although the Samsung Galaxy S5 price is a long way from being confirmed, it has already been suggested that the S5 will cost more than its already pricy predecessor.
19:20 Peacock Read more at http://www.trustedreviews.com/news/sa​msung-galaxy-s5-release-date-news-rum​ours-specs-and-price#OrKX44qOXBqyMT9h.99
19:20 Peacock wow, i didn't copy that last bit
19:20 thexyz a frame has rendered!
19:20 thexyz Peacock: some sites do that
19:21 thexyz well, at least I can watch
19:21 Peacock some news sites every time i highlight a portion of text (to get back to it later) some popup asks me if i'd like to buy a license lol
19:21 thexyz wondering why's it THAT laggy
19:22 Peacock lol http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Samsung-Galaxy-S4-S​GH-M919-16GB-smartphone-T-Mobile-Cracked-g​lass-turns-on-/251399097819?lgeo=1&amp;clk​_rvr_id=561030794619&amp;vectorid=229529
19:22 thexyz k, bai
19:30 Gethiox2 joined #minetest
19:34 harrison a shetland pony walks into a bar
19:34 harrison the bartender says
19:34 harrison i think there is a cold virus going around
19:34 harrison i am a little hoarse myself
19:35 Calinou joined #minetest
19:36 EvergreenTree o/
19:36 EvergreenTree /)
19:36 john_minetest cya EvergreenTree
19:36 EvergreenTree bye
19:36 john_minetest harrison: You told that one before
19:36 harrison which time was it more funny?
19:37 john_minetest harrison: I guess the first time
19:38 harrison interesting
19:38 harrison i'll tell it again someday soon
19:38 harrison if the pattern is valid, it should be even less funny
19:38 john_minetest I think so.
19:38 john_minetest At least for the people without memory problems
19:39 john_minetest Or people who don't always read everything posted here
19:42 thexyz those exist?
19:42 cisoun joined #minetest
19:43 john_minetest I always read terms of use. So why shouldn't there be people reading everything here?
19:43 john_minetest ;)
19:44 thexyz and if you don't like those terms of use you don't use the software/service?
19:45 Mati^1 joined #minetest
19:45 Mati^1 left #minetest
19:46 Peacock even if people were inclined to read the whole TOS, there are places like facebook which revises them every4-6 months lol
19:47 NekoGloop joined #minetest
19:47 john_minetest And I haven't got fb, yt, g+, twitter, linkedin and all that other stuff.
19:48 john_minetest Most of the time when downloading stuff I only have to look at "GPLv3" and can click on "accept" since I know that one.
19:48 thexyz must be boring
19:48 john_minetest Dropbox took kinda long to read but it is quite okay.
19:48 john_minetest Better being bored than human centipad
19:51 w_laenger joined #minetest
19:53 w_laenger some screenshots
19:53 w_laenger http://ubuntuone.com/1cnCeb2RMHTtXGWrZhCtWs
19:53 w_laenger http://ubuntuone.com/2N1KoWqdL9OWcXKeVDijI5
19:53 w_laenger http://ubuntuone.com/6hm6x8ilwVCAWCRgcei9LJ
19:53 w_laenger http://ubuntuone.com/2bYhRvjTwyvPdtWsucVYdr
19:54 EvergreenTree http://imgur.com/DesVht6 http://imgur.com/BnazKYe http://imgur.com/xMkUV3i http://imgur.com/bZiPieB http://imgur.com/JJj60xK ahem
19:54 Peacock well since 99% of friends and family use fb, i cant really go w/o lol though i dont post much either
19:54 w_laenger http://ubuntuone.com/5f4ZvRjbhtgon36mP0LzFR
19:54 EvergreenTree w_laenger, here are some more that I pm'ed to Jordach http://imgur.com/DesVht6 http://imgur.com/BnazKYe http://imgur.com/xMkUV3i http://imgur.com/bZiPieB http://imgur.com/JJj60xK
19:55 w_laenger mine don't only show the tree
19:55 nhm joined #minetest
19:57 w_laenger I like these stone structures
19:58 EvergreenTree The stone structures are ugly
19:59 w_laenger I like caves, too
19:59 w_laenger for me the structures look good
20:05 w_laenger quiet
20:06 w_laenger I still hear the music
20:06 Jordach time for a big ass post to make
20:06 Jordach >human centipad
20:06 Jordach South Park reference
20:07 w_laenger I can't connect again
20:08 w_laenger de ja vu
20:08 Jordach w_laenger, server closed unless EvergreenTree or john_minetest want it
20:08 w_laenger ok
20:09 w_laenger will you be able to play impulse tracker audio files in minetest in the future?
20:10 w_laenger no?
20:10 Jordach john_minetest, pics
20:11 w_laenger no.
20:12 w_laenger Could not access backend storage
20:12 w_laenger I'll show some random screenshots
20:12 w_laenger http://ubuntuone.com/04Ph3XySdI8b3j5FUXn5RK
20:13 w_laenger http://ubuntuone.com/2q7RN6MuJHyqSUDcPuEPNj
20:13 w_laenger http://ubuntuone.com/3khJDEdnuERyiDDyd9UTzN
20:14 sfan5 Jordach: look! http://ubuntuone.com/53DgvaSQwsWLhSESVW3WMH
20:14 w_laenger http://ubuntuone.com/5914IKya2ahUiLg1SpgbMo
20:14 john_minetest Jordach: I only have got 3 and those are ugly
20:14 w_laenger loading...
20:15 w_laenger you could have used interlacing adam 7
20:15 w_laenger http://ubuntuone.com/4vrlq6270tj6x9UaMvWu9t
20:15 sfan5 w_laenger: I could
20:16 w_laenger http://ubuntuone.com/3SgIpAeHsBy1LKBooQB0Vt
20:16 w_laenger http://ubuntuone.com/4GryUYF6RFVsYOxU988piy
20:16 w_laenger http://ubuntuone.com/7jwjrgJc2ckH1e01MfsTlW
20:17 w_laenger http://ubuntuone.com/3skMcezxb5l3HDpoz9YwK3
20:17 john_minetest does flatlands work okay yet=
20:17 john_minetest ?
20:17 w_laenger http://ubuntuone.com/0BPKqsCDJYsz4nkLm3jXGM
20:18 Jordach sfan5, what does that image contain?
20:18 sfan5 Jordach: it's a screenshot from minetest
20:18 sfan5 more specific an 8K one
20:18 Jordach \o/
20:18 john_minetest It would be great to have a flatlands heavily moderated server
20:18 sfan5 Jordach: https://github.com/sfan5/m​inetest/tree/8k_screenshot
20:19 thexyz sfan5: how about 4k video?
20:19 john_minetest sfan5: that is crazy
20:20 john_minetest sfan5: 8k is blasphemy! This is madness!
20:20 sfan5 thexyz: that would be possible
20:20 thexyz do that
20:20 thexyz all my cores want to render this hsit
20:21 sfan5 s/cores/gfxcard cores/
20:21 john_minetest Anybody here is making minetest Let's plays?
20:21 sfan5 it would be like 0.25 fps
20:21 Jordach john_minetest, EvergreenTree: want a singlenode mapgen (eg, we have a singlenode to start from, and build from that.)
20:21 EvergreenTree What for?
20:22 Jordach building in SPAACCCEEEE
20:22 john_minetest Jordach: I know single node but I prefer to have a map generated just flat so I don't have to worldedit for hours.
20:22 EvergreenTree Make it always night
20:22 EvergreenTree Then it would look much more like space
20:22 Jordach BTW, i will install the skins mod :O (that means spaceman EvergreenTree and spaceman Jordach
20:23 john_minetest space? Space? I'm in space... SPAAACE! You know space? Space. Space.
20:23 Taoki Is there a Lua function that's called whenever a node is placed and / or modified? In other words, whenever any changes are made to nodes in the world. Also giving the position where the node was changed
20:23 EvergreenTree The reference is strong with this one
20:24 PilzAdam Jordach, what about the plot I suggested a while ago for your short?
20:24 Jordach eh?
20:24 EvergreenTree Jordach, make it always night.   Then we can build in the stars
20:24 * Jordach cannot remember
20:24 Jordach and yes, WE WILL get installed
20:24 PilzAdam Jordach, Sam kicking Steve off a cliff and saying "This is Minetest"
20:24 EvergreenTree \o/
20:24 Jordach PilzAdam, that means voice acting
20:25 EvergreenTree Which I cannot do
20:27 Jordach PilzAdam, perhaps the minetest logo cliff :P
20:27 PilzAdam would be nice
20:27 Jordach i have the props, except the mic :P
20:50 Peacock props, mic... shall we sing, sea chanties?
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20:54 john_minetest Anybody here is making minetest Let's plays?
20:54 Peacock lynx something i think
20:54 Peacock inocudom knows who
20:57 VanessaE oOChainLynxOo
20:58 thexyz sfan5: why did you use ubuntuone to host your pic?
20:58 thexyz it's so goddamn slow it's not even funny
20:58 sfan5 thexyz: I noticed it too late
20:58 thexyz also why did you use that shitty texture pack
20:59 thexyz I've always hated it
20:59 thexyz especially the dirt
20:59 sfan5 i just used minimal
20:59 thexyz yes, I know
21:02 thexyz oh it loaded
21:02 thexyz what a shitty hosting
21:03 sfan5 I'll upload the new one to dropbox
21:03 sfan5 (one with hdx-512)
21:06 Peacock http://beta.slashdot.org/story/195631
21:12 rsiska joined #minetest
21:12 john_minetest There was that one let's player... some guy doing a lot with linux. But can't remember the name...
21:14 john_minetest hah, got it. meldrian[holarse]
21:17 kaeza joined #minetest
21:17 PilzAdam john_minetest, join #minetest-de, the official meldrian fanclub
21:18 kaeza greetings
21:20 Warr1024 joined #minetest
21:21 Warr1024 hey, for create_detached_inventory, are those saved with the world, or is it the modder's responsibility to serialize and restore them as needed?
21:26 PilzAdam Warr1024, I think they are not saved
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21:26 prestotron55 [deleted]
21:26 Warr1024 PilzAdam: thanks.  I should probably dig into an existing "bags" mod or something to see how it's been handled in the past.
21:27 Warr1024 I assume that entities don't have their own inventories (or they cannot be accessed by formspecs) so detached is the way to go.
21:27 PilzAdam get_inventory() is availible for all objects
21:28 Warr1024 and that inventory is persisted automatically with ents?
21:28 Warr1024 that would work well if I could reference the ent's inventory in a formspec.
21:30 Warr1024 is there a better guide to how formspecs actually work?
21:30 Warr1024 lua_api.txt seems to explain what to put in them, but I'm still a little puzzled about how to do stuff beyond chests and furnaces and the like.
21:31 Warr1024 I'd really like to be able to click on or punch an ent or something and have a series of menus and sub-inventories and such be possible.
21:31 Warr1024 lua_api.txt seems to imply that the only inventories you can directly access via formspec are player, node meta, and detached, not entity.
21:32 kaeza Warr1024, the formspec stuff in MT is more or less like web forms
21:32 kaeza it's up to the mod to maintain the current "state"
21:32 Warr1024 ok, I can handle serializing shit.
21:32 PilzAdam formspecs are originally designed to handle inventory lists; its totally bloated now
21:33 Warr1024 it looks as if they were designed to handle the menu system too
21:33 Warr1024 though again, that works for my purposes.
21:33 PilzAdam theyre not
21:33 PilzAdam sapier abused it
21:33 Warr1024 I figured they weren't :-)
21:33 kaeza Warr1024, unified inventory is an example of a complex formspec
21:34 Warr1024 you got a github link for that?
21:34 kaeza including sub-pages, etc
21:34 MinetestBot GIT: Uberi commited to Uberi/MineTest-WorldEdit: Merge fixedpos and position dialogs in worldedit_gui, add cylinder dialog. https://gi 2013-12-15T13:33:39-08:00 http://git.io/K9pXGA
21:34 MinetestBot GIT: Uberi commited to Uberi/MineTest-WorldEdit: Fix worldedit.hollow_cylinder. https://gi 2013-12-15T13:33:31-08:00 http://git.io/gZI53Q
21:34 kaeza Warr1024, https://github.com/minetest​-technic/unified_inventory
21:34 Warr1024 awesome, thanks.
21:35 Warr1024 btw, what git repos are MinetestBot watching?  I've seen commits coming from a number of different places lately...
21:35 VanessaE good to see he's still active :)
21:35 PilzAdam Warr1024, the mintest repos and worldedit only
21:36 thexyz formspecs are another case of NIH
21:36 Warr1024 ok, so minetest, minetest_game, and minetest-worldedit?
21:36 Warr1024 I didn't know that worldedit was "official"...
21:36 thexyz it's not
21:40 PilzAdam Warr1024, thats the annyoing part of it
21:40 PilzAdam it either should watch all the big mods or none of them
21:41 thexyz "should"
21:41 Warr1024 hm, I still don't see anything indicating that I would have the ability to access an ent's inventory via formspec... I guess it's time for a quick trip over to RTFS-land...
21:41 Warr1024 worst case, I can just use detached inventories for my ents, since they're addressable by name.
21:43 PilzAdam oh, the docs are misleading again; only players have inventories; it returns nil for other objects
21:44 Warr1024 oh, nice
21:44 Warr1024 so detached it is.
21:44 Warr1024 actually... can ents even receive formspec fields?
21:44 Warr1024 or will I have to pull some kind of hack...
21:44 Peacock use the on_receive function and check the formname
21:45 PilzAdam minetest.register_on_player_​receive_fields(func(player, formname, fields))
21:45 Warr1024 oh, I see.
21:45 Warr1024 ok, gotcha, thanks.
21:45 Warr1024 some of this stuff is rather counter-intuitive
21:45 PilzAdam entities dont have formspecs, so they dont have a receive_field function
21:45 Warr1024 I mean, I get why it needed to be done this way, stateless and all
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21:46 Warr1024 well, ents can still call show_formspec to send their forms to player, then have the player's on_receive_fields hook route the call back to the ent...
21:46 Warr1024 ...so in effect, it should be possible to wire up ent formspec hooks via lua...
21:46 PilzAdam its not the entity who calls the send_formspec function
21:47 Warr1024 I know, I mean a function called by an entity callback can call minetest.show_formspec, and that form will be shown to the player, right?
21:47 Warr1024 just the return address won't be set to send it back to the ent, so I have to catch it with the global registration...
21:48 thexyz http://i.4cdn.org/a/src/1387138126790.png
21:51 sfan5 lolwat
21:52 sfan5 thexyz: does this dl faster for you? https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u​/30267315/screenshot_4159853454.png
21:52 thexyz yes, much better
21:53 thexyz and now I don't understand why would you do that
21:53 thexyz it's not like minetest has got graphics or anything
21:53 Warr1024 so what happens if I save a reference to an entity, then the ent gets unloaded by the server?
21:53 thexyz now make panoramas
21:53 thexyz with web interface
21:53 Warr1024 does ent.object become nil or something?
21:53 thexyz "minetest gigapixel"
21:54 Calinou it does have graphics
21:54 Calinou huge screenshots have a use, thexyz
21:54 Calinou better have them than not have them
21:54 thexyz what's their use?
21:54 Warr1024 wallpaper?
21:54 Calinou zooming on a picture?
21:54 Calinou art stuff?
21:54 thexyz also wtf
21:54 Calinou ^
21:54 Warr1024 manual FSAA?
21:54 thexyz on the left
21:54 Calinou really, it's good to have
21:54 thexyz sand
21:54 thexyz it's broken
21:55 thexyz sfan5:
21:55 Calinou Minecraft doesn't have that (it used to have it as an experimental feature, but was broken)
21:55 Warr1024 yeah, it wrote out TGA's too, didn't it?  Even though their other screenshot format was png?
21:55 Calinou it wrote huge TGAs
21:56 Warr1024 also, if speed is an issue, I don't think it's very difficult to crank the compression on png way down/off...
21:56 Calinou and sometimes made the game window all fuzzy after doing the screenshot
21:56 OldCoder joined #minetest
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21:56 Peacock is it just me, or do some of the nodes look deformed?
21:56 Warr1024 hm, there's no way to destroy a detached inventory, is there...
21:57 MinetestBot GIT: Uberi commited to Uberi/MineTest-WorldEdit: Implement copy/move in the WorldEdit GUI. https://gi 2013-12-15T13:56:37-08:00 http://git.io/LvsOtg
21:58 sfan5 thexyz: it looks broken in the middle because my graphics card doesn't support 8K properly
21:59 Warr1024 though really the best format for saving screenshots would be .blend :-)
22:00 thexyz it looks broken everywhere then
22:05 kaeza Peacock, deformed?
22:05 kaeza maybe leaves waving?
22:05 Peacock dunno, image just looks "weird" lol
22:05 kaeza mai engrish is gud
22:06 Peacock or concave
22:06 kaeza screenshot?
22:07 thexyz yes they do
22:07 thexyz i.e. sand island on the left
22:07 thexyz with the stone block
22:08 Peacock aiight so my vision isn't deteriorating as quickly as i thought lol
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22:37 VanessaE 22:37:04: ERROR[ServerThread]: ServerEnv: Trying to store id=17186 statically but block (-14,-1,-39) already contains 49 objects. Forcing delete.
22:37 VanessaE How high can I safely turn this up without making the server barf?
22:38 PilzAdam over 9000
22:39 PilzAdam VanessaE, depends on the mods you run
22:39 VanessaE about the only things that use entities are signs, item frames, mobs and pipeworks
22:40 PilzAdam signs and item frames shouldnt be much of a problem
22:40 PilzAdam does the mobs mod doe anything like: https://github.com/PilzAdam/nodetopia​/blob/master/mods/mobs/init.lua#L396 ?
22:41 VanessaE simple mobs + peaceful_npc to be exact, though the latter doesn't spawn by default (not sure why, probably needs some config tweak that I've been too lazy to look into)
22:41 VanessaE 500 per block sound good?
22:43 PilzAdam it would be better if mods would handle the limit, when the engine refuses to store random objects then weird stuff might happen
22:43 PilzAdam e.g. carts shouldnt be removed, but some mobs disappearing arent a problem
22:44 PilzAdam having more than 49 objects per block might be a sign of a mod going crazy
22:44 VanessaE naw, pipeworks uses tons of entities
22:44 VanessaE the flowing objers in the tubes
22:44 PilzAdam thought about rewriting pipeworks to not use objects?
22:45 iqualfragile PilzAdam: what else should be used?
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22:45 iqualfragile particles?
22:45 VanessaE on my server, it's not uncommon to see that much activity between things like mining lasers, drills pipeworks, dropped objcts from full inventories, etc. to have tons of them around.  I have item_drop with builtin+_features enabled so they'll disappear eventually anyway
22:45 VanessaE particles are highly unstable
22:45 VanessaE and since entities are the only other things that can move, that's all that's left
22:46 PilzAdam iqualfragile, just storing the info in meta and passing that arround
22:46 VanessaE PilzAdam: but what about the actual visual part?
22:47 PilzAdam make the pipes solid
22:47 iqualfragile PilzAdam: the visuals are esential! like half my tubes do not actually transport anything but show of mese crystals and bones
22:47 iqualfragile additionally its a lot easier to debug
22:48 PilzAdam additionally its a lot more stuff to handle for the server and that increases lag for all clients
22:48 PilzAdam but whatever
23:02 PilzAdam bye
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23:13 MinetestBot GIT: Sapier at GMX dot net commited to minetest/minetest: Reduce cloud coloring for colored fog and cloud mode 3946d2a504 2013-12-15T15:16:06-08:00 http://git.io/sesPjA
23:19 harrison <Peacock> aiight so my vision isn't deteriorating as quickly as i thought lol
23:20 harrison i am sorry to hear of your recent difficulties
23:20 iqualfragile how many frenchmen does it take to defend paris?
23:20 harrison weewee monsewer?
23:21 harrison a man and his wife from paris swim on a deserted beach in normandy late in the season
23:21 harrison the wife tragically drowns
23:21 iqualfragile not sure, they never tried!
23:21 harrison her husband gets her body back to shore
23:22 harrison tries artificial respiration
23:22 harrison when it fails, he runs off to call the gendarmes from the hotel
23:22 harrison and runs back to the beach
23:23 harrison where he finds a man coupling with his wife's corpse
23:23 Warr1024 left #minetest
23:23 harrison the husband tackles and punches the stranger
23:23 harrison yelling "Zat is my wife! Et she is DEAD!"
23:23 harrison to which the stranger replies
23:24 harrison "Excuse me --- I though she was an american tourist!"
23:26 iqualfragile harrison: i dont get it… whas she a landwhale or what?
23:26 harrison no, frigid and sexually unresponsive
23:26 harrison compared to the lusty, natural french woman
23:27 iqualfragile oh, i thought we were mocking the french
23:28 harrison weewee monsewer
23:37 Peacock dunno if the french jokes are directed at me or calinou, but only one of us' from france :P
23:40 EverHill joined #minetest
23:40 EverHill Sokomine Do you want land in Harpold's Gruenberg ?
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