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IRC log for #minetest, 2013-12-13

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
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00:20 EvergreenTree o/
00:20 EvergreenTree /wavebranch
00:32 EvergreenTree Is anyone here?   It's like a graveyard
00:32 * EvergreenTree throws kittens everywhere
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00:34 PandemoniuM this is the kitten kickatorium
00:35 harrison i am here but i suppose that is not exactly the news you were hoping for
00:36 * VanessaE summarily ignores the bot
00:36 harrison ah, so my plan succeeded! they think i am a bot!
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01:04 harrison http://venturebeat.com/2013/12/12/bots-are-now-t​he-dominant-species-on-the-internet-study-says/
01:34 nhm hello!
01:35 VanessaE hi
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01:35 nhm Is anyone familiar with the v.reader from vtech? I've been kind of thinking about scripted kids stories with highlighted words paired with something like minetest.  Stories about growing things that you participate in.  Teaching reading, and various subjects concurrently.
01:37 nhm potentially you could have different worlds that the child can open and go to that teach about different things.  Volcanos, farming, polar habitats, gravity, mathematics, circuits, pistons, etc
01:39 VanessaE interesting idea
01:39 VanessaE easily done in Minetest since it's scriptable
01:40 VanessaE a custom game would be needed, but that's trivial really
01:40 nhm VanessaE: It's about as close as I think you can get right now to a Young Lady's Illustrated Primer.
01:40 VanessaE the hard part would be limiting the user/child to only those activities that you want them to participate in
01:41 nhm VanessaE: I think the goal would be to make it very free form, but encouraging certain activities.  IE, rewards for participation.
01:41 nhm Maybe custom NPCs that provide rewards in game for completing certain activities.
01:42 VanessaE then that would be dead easy to do
01:42 nhm IE helping a farmer plant seeds and irrigate the crops.
01:43 nhm I think the hardest part is building and populating the worlds, creating the stories and the cirriculum.
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02:47 Exio4 This video contains content from BMG_Rights_Management, UMG, Warner Chappell, SACEM, PEDL and UMPI, one or more of whom have blocked it in your country on copyright grounds.
02:47 Exio4 fuck you
02:48 Exio4 why do you block a video when there are 15 more next to it with the same title..
02:51 NekoGloop that would be the auto-flag-everything bot
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04:14 Tx_Rushfan Hi all
04:15 Tx_Rushfan anyone else here?
04:15 NakedFury working
04:15 ShadowNinja Tx_Rushfan: No, only 100 ghosts.
04:15 Tx_Rushfan lol
04:16 Exio4 100 ghosts? i would have same there were some zombies around!
04:16 Exio4 anyway, watching hannibal before going to sleep isn't that nice
04:16 Tx_Rushfan http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s302/har​vestr/Minetest/darkblocks.jpg?t=1386905832
04:16 Tx_Rushfan what is causing the dark patches?
04:16 Tx_Rushfan Whenever I lay down a region of nodes with worldedit this happens
04:17 Exio4 lighting bugs?
04:17 Tx_Rushfan I love minetest but this is killer for me unless I find a fix
04:17 Exio4 well, we're all looking for a fix too :)
04:17 Tx_Rushfan Are you saying it is a known bug and we are waiting for a fix. If so kk.
04:17 Exio4 sadly ^
04:17 * ShadowNinja adds photobucket to his "evil sites" list.
04:18 Tx_Rushfan LOL
04:18 Exio4 why evil site?
04:18 Tx_Rushfan I'm game for a better alternative. its just a an account I set up years ago and use now and then.
04:18 Exio4 no site is evil with requestpolicy, noscript, ghostery, adblock and flashblock!
04:18 Exio4 (and it is the short list of addons!)
04:18 ShadowNinja Exio4: Random ad over the whole page that you can't (easily) close until you've waited about 10s.
04:19 * Exio4 didn't see any random ad
04:19 Exio4 because man, this is the paranoic firefox profile
04:19 Tx_Rushfan How old is this lighting bug
04:19 Exio4 Tx_Rushfan: how old is minetest?
04:19 Tx_Rushfan Oh man no way
04:19 Exio4 as far as i know ;P
04:20 Tx_Rushfan so how the heck can someone build anything other than just manually laying down a billion blocks?
04:20 Exio4 i don't play minetest
04:20 Tx_Rushfan Anyone used another similar app that works?
04:20 NakedFury adblock and ghostery to the rescue
04:20 Exio4 (and if you are even more paranoic, requestpolicy and noscript!)
04:20 NakedFury plugin up your browser or stop interneting
04:21 Tx_Rushfan I just need a minecraft-like app with creative mode for flying and unlimited blocks, good render distace and fast. I tried Terasology - looks great but slow render and map gen is strange.
04:21 NakedFury well minetest works but yes that lightning bug is mega annoying
04:22 Exio4 Tx_Rushfan: if you didn't say fast i would recomend you minecraft
04:22 Exio4 also, who here doesn't use Stylish with a dark CSS theme
04:23 kizeren I have not seen this lighting bug yet on my server/world.
04:23 kizeren I guess I am lucky so far.
04:23 Tx_Rushfan minecraft needs to be rewritten in C++
04:23 Exio4 it shouldn't
04:24 Tx_Rushfan writing a 3d game, even one with just blocks in Java is like building a website as a powerpoint presentation.
04:24 NakedFury I consider minecraft faster than minetest
04:24 Exio4 well, i would like to make a powerpoint presentation that gives me those million dollars
04:24 Exio4 and it is actually faster
04:24 Tx_Rushfan I think minetest is much faster
04:24 NakedFury faster, more fluid
04:25 Exio4 minetest is fucking slow
04:25 Exio4 and it is a known thing
04:25 NakedFury yeah
04:25 Exio4 we're dealing with it since we know minetest
04:25 Exio4 and also, minecraft has a hell lot more of client-side prediction on the "gameplay" part
04:25 Tx_Rushfan minetst flies for me compared to minecraft
04:25 Exio4 what gpu do you have?
04:26 Exio4 minetest runs slowly everywhere
04:26 Tx_Rushfan core i5
04:26 Exio4 i said gpu Tx_Rushfan.
04:26 Exio4 ... *
04:26 Tx_Rushfan oh hell lol
04:26 Exio4 also, i5?
04:26 Tx_Rushfan geForce 650ti I th ink
04:26 kizeren Both minetest and Minecraft run slowly on my computer if both are running as client/server.  But if ran as just client.  Minetest seems faster. (FPS) that is.
04:27 Exio4 there are i5 that are shitty enough to get fucked by an underclocked FX 4100 and there are some that are fighting against the FX 8320
04:27 Exio4 Tx_Rushfan: you don't even know what is your gpu?
04:28 Tx_Rushfan Well my 360 cube long aircraft carrier in Minectaft....I can't see it from bow to fantail (rear end)
04:28 Tx_Rushfan view distance maxed
04:28 Exio4 maxed to what?
04:29 Tx_Rushfan render distance:far
04:29 Tx_Rushfan unless there is an addon to increase that more
04:29 kizeren If your minecraft still uses "distance:far" then you are very outdated and need to update.
04:29 Tx_Rushfan probably ya
04:29 Exio4 also, use optifine
04:29 kizeren It does it by chunk distance now.
04:30 Exio4 noone actually uses MC without optifine ;P
04:30 kizeren I do.
04:30 Exio4 it does?
04:30 Exio4 since when?
04:30 kizeren Yea it does.
04:30 kizeren 1.7.*
04:30 * Exio4 is still using 1.6 because no bukkit release
04:30 Exio4 i only minecraft rarely in one server and it isn't updated yet
04:30 Exio4 (uber-ontopic to this channel!)
04:30 Tx_Rushfan when I update MC, do I have to back up my files or are they safe
04:31 kizeren THere is bukkit and spigot release for 1.7.* but is unstable and unsporrted.
04:31 kizeren Always backup when updating anything.
04:32 Tx_Rushfan I was just curious if the update autodeles stuff
04:33 kizeren No.  But I think chance of chunk corruption so they say.
04:33 Exio4 oh man
04:33 Exio4 this is shit
04:33 Exio4 using my wifi, the max bandwidth i can achieve is 180kb/s between my fx and the android
04:33 Exio4 woo, 250!
04:34 Exio4 and i'm downloading files from the FX that are about 90 mb total
04:34 Exio4 :(
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04:44 Tx_Rushfan http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s302/harves​tr/Minecraft/TxRushFanCarrier.jpg?t=1386909766  my full scale Nimitz class carrier done in MC. It still has a lot of work to be done like the tower and my custom textures reloaded
04:45 Tx_Rushfan I was really hoping to rebuild it in Minetest but until the lighting issue is fixed......hmmmmm
05:05 Tx_Rushfan .
05:05 Tx_Rushfan bump  :P
05:25 us}0gb What is the lighting issue, anyway? I haven't done much with Minetest lately due to my bogus graphics card.
05:32 Tx_Rushfan oh hey, sorry
05:32 Tx_Rushfan http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s302/har​vestr/Minetest/darkblocks.jpg?t=1386905832 that!
05:32 Tx_Rushfan when laying down large fields of node that happens
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05:52 VanessaE bbl
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06:19 reactor o/
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07:57 matsetes Hi!
07:57 matsetes Is there someone who uses technic mod?
07:58 reactor Hang on in here.
07:58 reactor Ask the same question in a couple hours, I remember someone from that timezone using it.
07:59 matsetes Ok, thanks =)
08:00 VanessaE hi
08:00 reactor VanessaE: o/
08:01 VanessaE how goes?
08:01 VanessaE matsetes: what do you need to know?
08:03 matsetes Oh, hi VanessaE !
08:03 VanessaE hi :)
08:04 matsetes How to change the mode of the mining drill
08:04 VanessaE try shift-punch
08:05 VanessaE (I didn't know it had different modes?)
08:05 matsetes Yes! Thanks
08:06 VanessaE sure thing
08:06 matsetes Yes, mk2 and mk3 have different mode of mining
08:08 VanessaE ah ok
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08:18 matsetes Bye VanessaE and thanks =)
08:18 VanessaE cya
08:18 VanessaE yw
08:19 Miner_48er why are there no recipes for laser mk2,3
08:19 VanessaE I thought the new recipes cheapie and I had discussed were accepted?
08:19 * VanessaE checks the commit history
08:20 VanessaE huh.
08:20 VanessaE guess not.
08:21 VanessaE the plan is to re-balance the recipes for battboxes, mk1/2/3 drills and mk1/2/3 lasers and base them all around energy crystals and more exotic recipes with mese crystals and blocks
08:21 VanessaE at least that's where the discussion went, not sure if that's what the ultimate decision was.
08:22 VanessaE excuse me, Susurrus, not cheapie.
08:22 VanessaE https://github.com/minetes​t-technic/technic/pull/116
08:22 VanessaE and  https://github.com/minetest​-technic/technic/issues/109
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09:05 hoodedice Jordach!
09:05 hoodedice VanessaE:
09:06 hoodedice MinetestBot!
09:06 MinetestBot hoodedice!
09:06 hoodedice What?
09:06 VanessaE hey hoodedice
09:06 hoodedice It's my last day with a PC
09:06 VanessaE and then what?
09:06 hoodedice Wanna get that thing done with
09:07 hoodedice No PC for an indefinite amount of time
09:07 xyz|real why?
09:07 VanessaE why?
09:07 hoodedice Moving to the US =)
09:07 hoodedice University
09:07 VanessaE are you insane?
09:07 VanessaE oh..
09:07 hoodedice why lol?
09:07 VanessaE well I guess
09:07 VanessaE too much to go into here, at this hour.
09:07 hoodedice Like, you thought for employment?
09:07 xyz|real are PCs disallowed in US or something?
09:07 hoodedice No, I don't have my own PC
09:08 xyz|real ah
09:08 hoodedice Have to buy one
09:08 VanessaE ahhhh
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09:11 hoodedice Anyway...
09:11 hoodedice http://i.imgur.com/EAFPkHk.png
09:11 hoodedice Still in progress
09:12 hoodedice I can't get the crap to move to origin, and when it does, I can't get the grid under it
09:13 VanessaE nice
09:13 VanessaE I like that
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09:20 MinetestBot GIT: whatever@xyz.is commited to minetest/minetest: Fix a bug in GenericCAO GENERIC_CMD_UPDATE_POSITION parsing. 67bf7130ce 2013-12-13T01:18:00-08:00 http://git.io/3ZGYqg
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09:24 VanessaE night all
09:24 hoodedice Ciao
09:24 JamesTait Good morning all; happy Friday the 13th, and happy Violin Day!  :-D
09:24 hoodedice Jordach would be laughing at me right now
09:25 hoodedice It's Friday the 13th?
09:25 VanessaE oh shit
09:25 VanessaE it IS friday the 13th isn't it
09:25 hoodedice W00t
09:25 hoodedice Yaay.
09:25 VanessaE I think I'll just go to bed and stay there. :P)
09:25 VanessaE :P
09:25 VanessaE night all :)
09:26 JamesTait Nigt VanessaE. :)
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09:39 hoodedice I need help texturing my model
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10:59 rubenwardy https://forum.minetest.net/viewforum.php?id=14 is quite cluttered. I think everything that is not a "minetest-related project" should be moved
11:00 rubenwardy For example: mod idea, general ideas, questions, google blocky
11:17 rubenwardy !title https://forum.minetest.net/vie​wtopic.php?pid=121881#p121881
11:17 MinetestBot rubenwardy: Posting Guidelines (suggested draft) (Page 1) — Minetest-related projects — Minetest Forums
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12:43 kaeza mornings
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12:47 damir__ helIo
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13:46 Hirato is it just me or is latest git badly broken?
13:47 kaeza Hirato, badly broken?
13:47 RealBadAngel whats broken for you?
13:47 Hirato it seems to think my GPU is incapable of OpenGL 1.2 :P
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13:48 Hirato which is blatantly false, as my desktop is currently being composited with an OGL 3.0 core context :P
13:51 RealBadAngel whats your os?
13:52 Hirato Arch Linux, with 3.12 kernel and nvidia drivers
13:52 Hirato https://dl.dropboxusercontent​.com/u/23891252/minetest.png
13:53 RealBadAngel i think i saw something like that already, but cant remember what was the reason
13:53 RealBadAngel btw opengl has nothing to do with main menu
13:53 Hirato the old build I have from 38 revisions back
13:54 Hirato I'm sure it's related, the current build starts up with these messages in the log
13:54 Hirato OpenGL driver version is not 1.2 or better.
13:54 Hirato Warning: OpenGL device only has one texture unit. Disabling multitexturing.
13:54 Hirato GLSL not available.
13:54 RealBadAngel hmm, what driver are you using?
13:54 RealBadAngel open or propertiary?
13:55 Hirato nvidia, I thin kit's version 314.22, let me just confirm
13:55 Hirato 331.20
13:55 kaeza Irrlicht version?
13:55 RealBadAngel have you lately changed your drivers?
13:55 Hirato havne't updated anything sicne my last reboot
13:56 Hirato irrlicht version is 1.8.1
13:56 RealBadAngel please try to get 1.7.3
13:56 RealBadAngel and build with it
13:56 Hirato that's a pain with arch ^^
13:57 sfan5 hm... why is my hungry games server always so crowded
13:57 RealBadAngel 1.8 is known of some weird errors
13:58 Hirato rather odd it's not happening with the previous revision I built
13:58 proller sfan5, android rush
13:59 Hirato does minetest link dynamically or statically against irrlicht?
13:59 Hirato just wondering if I sohuld rebuild minetest ^^
14:00 sfan5 Hirato: the headers change too..
14:00 RealBadAngel 1.8.1 is quite new, its not even a month old. i dont know how it can behave with mt
14:01 Hirato makes me wonder when it came into Arch...
14:01 sfan5 proller: I'm getting many Guest[0-9]+ people
14:01 Hirato if it's after Nov 30, that would explain it :P
14:01 proller sfan5, https://play.google.com/store/a​pps/details?id=com.vicono.build
14:03 sfan5 aah.. I wish they would use someone else to translate it to german
14:03 sfan5 that is just..
14:03 RealBadAngel i can see polish translation, its quite... strange
14:03 sfan5 'Buildcraft is based on Minetest car engine 0.4.8'
14:04 sfan5 game engine -> de = Spieleengine != Motor
14:04 Hirato vroooom!
14:04 sfan5 I hope they kept the credits
14:04 Hirato RealBadAngel: same result with irrlicht 1.7.3
14:05 RealBadAngel "Enter any password to link the server"
14:05 RealBadAngel Hirato, can you pastebin your logs?
14:06 Hirato which ones?
14:06 RealBadAngel as the game starts
14:06 Hirato just debug.txt? or stdout?
14:06 RealBadAngel from debug
14:07 sfan5 lol.. the nginx log of my hunger games remote_media server is already 58MB
14:08 Hirato there's nothing remotely useful in it aside from the "OpenGL" stuff I posted above
14:08 Hirato should I run ti iwth any flags?
14:10 sfan5 do you have any other video driver installed?
14:10 kaeza sfan5, http://pastebin.com/akMiaR6e
14:10 Hirato not that I know of
14:11 RealBadAngel https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=7832
14:11 Hirato if I did, I'm sure Kwin would have trouble compositing with a OGL 3.0 context, and tesseract would have trouble rendering at full speed using an OGL 4.0 core context
14:11 RealBadAngel some other folks already had that problem
14:11 sfan5 kaeza: nah, it's ok
14:11 sfan5 I don't really care because all accounts get deleted every map reset anyway
14:12 kaeza ah k :P
14:14 Hirato lol, identical circumstances even
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14:18 Hirato I see I updated my compiler on december 6th, I wonder if that's related
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14:28 sfan5 lolwat.. DeepGaze put ''moderators don't perfect a community, only trim the ones who don't fit.'' in his signature now
14:28 Hirato lol, what did you guys do to him?
14:31 kaeza I see another case of "I'll post random spam and if others don't like it I'll blame the community; I'm never wrong"
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14:32 Hirato RealBadAngel: I notice a small difference between the binaries from the last working revision and this broken one
14:32 Hirato libGLESv2.so.2 => /usr/lib/libGLESv2.so.2 (0x00007f80166d7000) <-- the old working one doesn't have this in its ldd dump
14:34 sfan5 ah.. makes sense
14:34 sfan5 because it finds ogles libs it uses them.. and they don't work
14:34 sfan5 Hirato: disable ogles while compiling
14:34 Hirato how?
14:34 sfan5 ..
14:35 Hirato doesn't look like there's a handy -DCMAKE... optoin for it
14:35 sfan5 comment out this line: https://github.com/minetest/minetest​/blob/master/src/CMakeLists.txt#L173
14:36 Hirato 173, got it
14:38 sfan5 if it works it would be nice if you'd make a post in both threads about the problem
14:38 sfan5 s/(.+)/\1 on how to solve it/
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14:39 kaeza <random>s/(.+) is quite inefficient, it's better to use s/$/blah/ to append :P</random>
14:39 sfan5 ah.. right
14:39 * Hirato wondersit definitely did the trick
14:39 Hirato er.. it definitely did the trick
14:43 Hirato though it's crashing when loading a world now :/
14:43 * Hirato mucks around with thigns a bit more
14:44 kaeza try running under gdb and see what happens
14:44 kaeza it's better to recompile with -DCMAKE_BUILD_TYPE=Debug for that BTW
14:45 Hirato alrady using debug builds :p
14:45 kaeza ah k :P
14:45 Hirato you guys are just making it really hard to maintain my PKGBUILD :P
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14:46 Hirato so I take it you lot have a gles renderer that takes precedence over regular OpenGL?
14:47 sfan5 Hirato: not the renderer, you would need ogles irrlicht for that
14:47 sfan5 but just linking to the libs apparently breaks something
14:47 Hirato lol
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14:48 Hirato I would've expected irrlicht to drag in openGL itself
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14:48 Hirato yay, it works
14:49 Hirato so waht was this I read inthe changelog about "waving trees"? :P
14:50 sfan5 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e0pqb_eVo5k
14:50 sfan5 look at that
14:50 kaeza trees greet you when you go near them
14:50 * kaeza runs
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14:50 Hirato just like real life when you take acid
14:50 Hirato er.. I just forgot to turn it on in options ^^
14:51 kaeza it sucks when your graphics card is too shitty to support those effects ;_;
14:51 Hirato lol, it looks like a simple vertex shader
14:51 RealBadAngel make sure you have up to date minetest_game
14:52 RealBadAngel ofc it is simple vertex shader
14:52 Hirato so yeah, any OGL 1.5 GPU sohuld support it :p
14:53 Hirato BETTER WATER THAN SKYRIM
14:53 sfan5 :D
14:53 RealBadAngel better water is a thing to come
14:53 Hirato it's true, skyrim water is completely flat :P
14:55 RealBadAngel http://i.imgur.com/WScbi4Z.png
14:55 sfan5 RealBadAngel: what amount of video mem do you recommend for minetest?
14:55 RealBadAngel i do have 2gb
14:56 RealBadAngel and rather old GPU
14:56 Hirato lol, looks very modern
14:56 iqualfragile sfan5: is there finaly real lighning in minetest?
14:56 sfan5 iqualfragile: not yet :P
14:56 iqualfragile daww
14:56 iqualfragile remove_craft_recepie implemented yet?
14:56 Hirato but I think effort should be spent on realtime lighting stuff so we can wlak around with torches :P
14:57 iqualfragile Hirato: its not about wallking around with torches
14:57 sfan5 RealBadAngel: will this do? http://www.reichelt.de/PCI-Express-Gra​fikkarten/ASUS-5450-2048/3//index.html​?ACTION=3&amp;GROUPID=6178&amp;ARTICLE​=133673&amp;SHOW=1&amp;OFFSET=500&amp;
14:57 kaeza oh it was an outdated mt_game :|
14:57 iqualfragile its about having real lightsources and therfore beeing able to really use shaders
14:57 kaeza or rather, my minimalistic game based off mt_game
14:57 Hirato iqualfragile: being able to see in the dark by holdign a burning stick is very important to my immersion!
14:58 Hirato :P
14:58 iqualfragile Hirato: you might need to think about aquiring better eyes and/or monitor
14:58 damir__ holding torches would be very nice yes
14:58 Hirato better monitor probably, CRTs don't display blacks nearly as brightly as LCDs
14:59 Hirato left behind in the stone age of computing
14:59 iqualfragile http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VxvH_v37U04
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14:59 zsoltisawesome ooooooh
14:59 zsoltisawesome i guess he hates me now
15:00 * Hirato sits back with a box of popcorn
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15:00 PilzAdam Hello everyone!
15:00 zsoltisawesome AAAAAAAaaaaahhhh.....
15:01 zsoltisawesome Oh hi!
15:01 iqualfragile oh, gdamn
15:01 RealBadAngel sfan5, it is newer than mine
15:01 iqualfragile who the fück runns this bot?
15:01 RealBadAngel so will do for sure
15:01 iqualfragile could somebody please ban it?
15:01 reactor joined #minetest
15:02 sfan5 :D
15:02 sfan5 with 60 fps too?
15:02 zsoltisawesome what bot
15:02 Hirato oh yeah, are you guys aware that -DRUNINPLACE=0 just doesn't work probably with global mods/content in the main menu?
15:02 RealBadAngel i have 40-50fps with all shader options on and 256x TP
15:02 zsoltisawesome wow
15:03 zsoltisawesome thats like amazing
15:03 iqualfragile seriously this is spamming
15:03 iqualfragile remove the bot, please
15:03 zsoltisawesome what is
15:03 zsoltisawesome what bit
15:03 * sfan5 bookmarks that gfxcard
15:03 zsoltisawesome *bot
15:03 Hirato I'm pushing 36 FPs with the current shaders, thing is, turning nthem off isn't going to raise it much :P
15:03 * zsoltisawesome wants to steal that gfxcard
15:04 sfan5 zsoltisawesome: well then you need to drive to Sandern, Germany and break into the Reichelt warehouse
15:04 sfan5 or just buy it
15:04 sfan5 36€ isn't much for a gfx card
15:04 Hirato sides, minetest seems to hate being run i na compositor, that just kills framerate from my experience, unless that got fixed
15:05 iqualfragile zsoltisawesome: please repeat after me the exact word: "katoffelsalat" to proove that you are no bot
15:05 zsoltisawesome sadly, there is no Trans-Atlantic Bridge yet
15:05 zsoltisawesome katoffelsalat
15:05 reactor Lol, desktop effects.
15:05 iqualfragile hmm… lets make this a bit harder
15:06 zsoltisawesome I have a PTB
15:06 iqualfragile banana and remove the first letter of the alphabet
15:06 zsoltisawesome this is the legit me
15:06 Hirato reactor: it's not modern unless you're playing doom in halls of interactive walls displaying minetest!
15:06 reactor They contribute neither to eye candy nor productivity.
15:06 RealBadAngel sfan5, mine was worth circa 100eu when i bought it a few yrs ago
15:06 pitriss iqualfragile: make it simpler.. Just let ban this spamer:D
15:06 reactor s/modern/hipster/
15:06 zsoltisawesome iqualfragile: like bnn?
15:06 iqualfragile good, so you are just a spammer and no bot
15:06 Hirato reactor: that was a joke, you underestimate how much it helps general responsiveness
15:07 iqualfragile which makes it worse
15:07 sfan5 lol
15:07 RealBadAngel Hirato, if you really wanna test the shaders, try this texture pack: http://realbadangel.pl/minet​est/HavenNG/HavenNG_256x.zip
15:07 reactor *sarcasm self-test completed
15:08 zsoltisawesome guys, does anyone know the cheapest TLD?
15:08 Hirato if I extract this in ~/.minetest, will that override the stuff installed in /usr/share/minetest?
15:08 iqualfragile .tk
15:08 iqualfragile its free
15:08 iqualfragile Hirato: you need to unzip it in textures i guess
15:08 zsoltisawesome lol
15:09 zsoltisawesome thats what im using XD, its not very well known
15:09 RealBadAngel in /textures folder
15:09 zsoltisawesome http://www.harpnet.tk
15:10 PilzAdam iqualfragile, wheres a bot?
15:10 iqualfragile PilzAdam: turns out ist just a spammer which had a bot running once
15:10 iqualfragile zsoltisawesome would be his name
15:10 zsoltisawesome i was testing a lame little bot
15:11 PilzAdam zsoltisawesome, this is not a test channel
15:11 zsoltisawesome i know
15:11 Hirato everyone knows it's not true parallax mapping unless the surface visibly distorts and moves around as you look at it ;)
15:12 zsoltisawesome it kept switching channels
15:12 zsoltisawesome then it hit an error
15:12 zsoltisawesome and pretty much self distructed
15:13 RealBadAngel Hirato, ? what do you mean?
15:13 Hirato it's a visual artefact from heightmaps
15:13 Hirato usually from being too strong
15:13 RealBadAngel ah that, steep parallax will fix that
15:14 Taoki PilzAdam: I was wondering if you're still working on the simple mobs system. Noticed there are no more updates on its GIT. Still following that interested
15:14 RealBadAngel also silhouette clipping shall be added there
15:14 PilzAdam Taoki, Im not really working on it anymore
15:14 PilzAdam but there is a "fork" of it in Nodetopia
15:15 Megaf joined #minetest
15:15 Taoki ok
15:15 Taoki That means it's no longer considered for being added to builtin either?
15:15 zsoltisawesome Oh, Hello Megaf
15:15 RealBadAngel Hirato, i can suggest tuning setting for parallax a bit
15:15 iqualfragile Taoki: take a look at the latest mobf version it realy improved a lot
15:15 iqualfragile performance wise
15:15 Hirato heh, sure
15:15 Megaf Hi all
15:15 reactor OldCoder: o/
15:15 Taoki ok. Still liking the simple mobs framework more myself
15:16 zsoltisawesome how does one find out the last time a person was on the channel?
15:16 OldCoder reactor, Well, hello
15:16 OldCoder zsoltisawesome, who?
15:16 iqualfragile btw: does anybody know why the fück minetest is that slow with transparency?
15:16 PilzAdam Taoki, it was never considered to be added to builtin
15:16 OldCoder Anybody in particular?
15:16 * Taoki nods
15:16 OldCoder Bots may have features zsoltisawesome but I can tell you
15:16 Hirato if I have any comments regarding the shaders, what's with the "specularity" near the crosshair?
15:16 reactor I am not a bot.
15:16 OldCoder reactor, indeed
15:17 OldCoder I was speaking to zsoltisawesome regarding his question
15:17 OldCoder Hmm
15:17 Taoki Hirato: Since there's no dinamic lighting yet, a fake light is used. Probably it follows the player
15:17 OldCoder But I had best get to work
15:17 Hirato surely at least the sun could be used?
15:17 RealBadAngel Hirato, add this to your config http://pastebin.com/zXCSm4L8
15:18 Hirato aren't you setting the same var twice?
15:18 Taoki Anyway, BBL
15:18 proller__ joined #minetest
15:18 RealBadAngel ooops
15:18 Hirato just tell me the name of the other one :P
15:19 RealBadAngel http://pastebin.com/eVw6JS9n
15:20 RealBadAngel and oops again
15:20 RealBadAngel lmao, hold on
15:20 * Hirato sighs :P
15:22 RealBadAngel you have just found a bug, config example is not updated :(
15:22 RealBadAngel shit
15:22 Hirato lol
15:23 Hirato looks like the defautls are 0.08 and 0.04
15:23 john_minetest joined #minetest
15:23 john_minetest Hello everypony
15:23 john_minetest joined #minetest
15:23 Hirato and the names are parallax_occlusion, not parallax_mapping ;o
15:24 RealBadAngel parallax_occlusion_scale = 0.06
15:24 RealBadAngel parallax_occlusion_bias = 0.03
15:24 RealBadAngel add those lines
15:26 Hirato you can barely see it
15:26 Hirato this reminds me
15:26 Hirato why does minetest save screenshots in the current directory, and not in ~/.minetest ?
15:27 RealBadAngel you can play with those settings
15:27 Hirato https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u​/23891252/screenshot_3968811630.jpg Wheeeee~!
15:27 RealBadAngel lol
15:28 Hirato now there's the parallax mapping I love to hate
15:28 RealBadAngel what have you applied there?
15:28 Hirato scale == 1
15:28 RealBadAngel ROTFL
15:28 RealBadAngel no wonder
15:28 RealBadAngel almost all examples out there suggest values like 0.04 :P
15:29 Hirato my engine of choice defaults to 0.06 and -0.03
15:29 Hirato i'm not sure if those values have the same effect though
15:29 Hirato since they seem to affect the range of visual offset there
15:30 RealBadAngel 0 means effect off
15:30 RealBadAngel 0.1 is for very strong effect
15:31 RealBadAngel usable values are in between
15:31 Hirato so you enforce a min value of 0?
15:31 iqualfragile Hirato: i see that acid made it into minetest
15:31 RealBadAngel no, its not enforced, its how it works
15:31 Hirato minecraft still has a better acid trip though :(
15:31 Hirato http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JpksyojwqzE
15:32 sfan5 lol.. the GEMA didn't like the music in that video
15:32 RealBadAngel with negative vaules you will probaply walk opposite way on eye vector
15:33 Hirato that is kind of the idea with them, -0.03 was meant to state that values of 85 is neutral in the heightmap, with lower vlaue going in, and higher ones coming out
15:33 Hirato (as the other value is 0.06)
15:34 thexyz sfan5: you should start writing decentralized p2p youtube clone
15:34 Gethiox joined #minetest
15:34 sfan5 thexyz: maybe tomorrow
15:34 thexyz make sure it'll support .ass subtitles tho
15:34 Hirato so torrents with sequential downloading?
15:34 sfan5 it will use burned-in subtitles /s
15:35 EvergreenTree joined #minetest
15:35 thexyz hardsub D:
15:35 Hirato and they'll be russian subs!
15:35 Hirato and also completely wrong to annoy the russians
15:36 EvergreenTree_ joined #minetest
15:37 thexyz well
15:37 thexyz russiam subs for the new madoka are better than engrosh ones
15:38 EvergreenTree joined #minetest
15:39 Hirato you'd know wouldn't you, you filthy commie ;)
15:39 thexyz it was translated by some chinese dude I think
15:39 thexyz why much hate
15:39 thexyz do you not remember communistcraft?
15:40 rubenwardy joined #minetest
15:40 Hirato RealBadAngel: just wondering, does the engine allow large texture block tetxures to be split over multiple blocks?
15:40 rubenwardy Hi all
15:40 sfan5 Hirato: no
15:40 Hirato awh
15:40 rubenwardy https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=7998
15:40 iqualfragile Hirato: no, but that would be great
15:40 rubenwardy !title
15:40 MinetestBot rubenwardy: Posting Guidelines (suggested draft) (Page 1) — Minetest-related projects — Minetest Forums
15:40 iqualfragile hi rubenwardy
15:40 Hirato i imagine tiling would be a pain
15:41 RealBadAngel textures are always tiled with block size
15:42 Hirato i'm just wondering if there's a way to make them tile over 2x2x2 blocks, as opposed to 1x1x1 :p
15:42 diemartin joined #minetest
15:42 Hirato as an example
15:43 rubenwardy kaeza: PM
15:48 iqualfragile Hirato: that would be quite much as complex as generic tiling
15:51 sfan5 RealBadAngel: bump maps need to be <name_without_ext>_bump.<ext> right?
15:52 RealBadAngel no
15:52 RealBadAngel default_stone_normal.png
15:52 RealBadAngel for example
15:52 sfan5 ok, thx
15:53 RealBadAngel normal map should be rgba
15:53 RealBadAngel rgb holds normalmap, alpha channel is for height
15:53 Hirato awh, no explicit heightmap support? :P
15:53 Hirato most engines just copy the heightmap directly into the alpha channel anyway, if they're provided separately, haha
15:54 RealBadAngel no point in having multiple files if all can be done in one file
15:55 SylvieLorxu joined #minetest
15:56 RealBadAngel really?
15:56 RealBadAngel i suggest asking uncle
15:56 RealBadAngel rgba format is most common :P
15:56 Hirato yeah
15:56 Hirato RGB normal + grayscale height == RGBA normal in memory
15:57 zsoltisawesome joined #minetest
15:57 rubenwardy joined #minetest
15:59 RealBadAngel the other thing is number of files, imagine texture packs that have thousands of textures
15:59 zsoltisawesome hey, does the airlike flag turn a node transparent?
15:59 Hirato with explicit support, it's their choice if they combine them themselves or not :p
15:59 PilzAdam zsoltisawesome, airlike flag?
16:00 zsoltisawesome like on a node
16:00 PilzAdam zsoltisawesome, there is only an "airlike" drawtype
16:00 zsoltisawesome i meant that
16:00 Hirato I don't really care - should probaly consider using sub directories for different mods in the textures
16:00 zsoltisawesome erm silly me
16:00 PilzAdam zsoltisawesome, yea, that makes the node invisible
16:00 zsoltisawesome ok cool
16:01 RealBadAngel Hirato, makin them in separate files is pointless. and uses double amount of memory.
16:02 zsoltisawesome do you have to use a texture on airlike drawtype nnoes?
16:02 zsoltisawesome *nodes?
16:02 RealBadAngel because you will end with rgb and not used a, then from heightmap you will use just one channel
16:02 Hirato it uses slightly more at best, you're meant to combine them when loading them
16:03 RealBadAngel tell me again whats the point for that if i can select an option in gfx app to save them together?
16:03 * Hirato shrugs
16:03 Hirato it's jsut how everything I've ever worked with does it
16:03 RealBadAngel make the code more complicated just? :)
16:04 Hirato loading code, yes :p
16:04 sfan5 o.O http://i.imgur.com/SXkU6A1.png
16:04 RealBadAngel every application to create normal maps allows that
16:04 Hirato sides, the heightmap is grayscale, you could easily store that in an GL_R8 if you decide not to combine them :P
16:04 RealBadAngel crazybump, gimp plugins etc
16:05 RealBadAngel its pointless to have splitted maps just for sake of having them splitted and later on merge them
16:05 Hirato this remidns me, why do image editors make it so difficult to just mess around with a single channel
16:06 zsoltisawesome do this look tight to you all: https://github.com/lordcirth/​moontest/blob/master/init.lua
16:06 zsoltisawesome *right
16:07 zsoltisawesome anyone?
16:16 ImQ009 joined #minetest
16:19 zsoltisawesome make coffee
16:19 proller__ joined #minetest
16:19 kaeza make: *** No rule to make target `coffee'.  Stop.
16:20 EvergreenTree plol
16:20 Hirato kaeza confirmed for bot?
16:20 zsoltisawesome lol
16:20 zsoltisawesome make pie flavored pie
16:22 zsoltisawesome make: *** No rule to make target `pie'.  Stop.
16:23 kaeza what
16:23 zsoltisawesome what what
16:23 Jordach joined #minetest
16:23 EvergreenTree o/
16:23 Jordach o/
16:23 * kaeza randomly pokes Jordach
16:24 Jordach i found a few bugs with my model while at college
16:24 Jordach fixed em there and then
16:24 EvergreenTree make me a sandwich
16:24 EvergreenTree make: *** No rule to make target `me'.  Stop.
16:24 EvergreenTree aww, dangit
16:25 kaeza they also removed `love' :(
16:25 zsoltisawesome ya
16:26 Jordach Jordach@TeslaBolt: $ make tea
16:26 Jordach make: *** No teabags to make target 'tea'. Stop.
16:26 zsoltisawesome lol
16:27 EvergreenTree Also, if you have the lua 2d engine "love" installed, type "love into the terminal and you'll get a nice pink rubber piggy
16:27 * kaeza teabags Jordach
16:27 kaeza http://i1.cpcache.com/product_zoom/1608​19300/unix_commands_tshirt.jpg?height=2​50&amp;width=250&amp;padToSquare=true
16:27 kaeza EvergreenTree, Löve*
16:28 ImQ009 joined #minetest
16:28 zsoltisawesome derp
16:29 zsoltisawesome since i dont have a native Linux machine in the area, i use this http://bellard.org/jslinux/
16:29 Jordach please don't type yes into the terminal
16:29 Jordach it just prints Y indefinitely
16:29 kaeza duh
16:30 zsoltisawesome lol
16:30 zsoltisawesome waoh
16:30 zsoltisawesome but no doesn't work XD
16:30 kaeza Jordach, it's used for programs which ask for confirmation and don't have a "-q" or "--quiet" or similar option handy
16:30 zash yes nyan nyan nyan nyan nyan
16:30 zsoltisawesome BusyBox v1.18.3 (2012-01-11 21:43:37 CET) multi-call binary.
16:30 zsoltisawesome Copyright (C) 1998-2009 Erik Andersen, Rob Landley, Denys Vlasenko
16:30 zsoltisawesome and others. Licensed under GPLv2.
16:30 zsoltisawesome See source distribution for full notice.
16:30 zsoltisawesome Usage: busybox [function] [arguments]...
16:30 zsoltisawesome or: busybox --list[-full]
16:30 zsoltisawesome or: function [arguments]...
16:31 kaeza yes | program
16:31 Jordach lol
16:31 Jordach Excess Flood
16:31 kaeza or like zash said :P
16:31 zash Pro-tip: Be *very* careful if your irc client allows piping the output of commands into a channel
16:32 zsoltisawesome joined #minetest
16:32 zsoltisawesome my clipboard didnt clear
16:32 zsoltisawesome oops
16:32 john_minetest Jordach: How is the minetest character called again?
16:32 zsoltisawesome what i meant to say was /bin # no
16:32 zsoltisawesome sh: no: not found
16:32 reactor Jordach: that program is there on purpose.
16:33 reactor Jordach: it's used to repeat input.
16:33 zsoltisawesome yes > no
16:33 zsoltisawesome lol
16:33 reactor The typical usage is "yes [REPEATED INPUT HERE] | [PROGRAM HERE]".
16:34 zash Jordach: like if a program asks a lot of yes/no questions and you want to answer yes to all of them
16:34 zsoltisawesome just say yes!
16:34 zsoltisawesome XD
16:34 reactor zsoltisawesome: no point in separate "no" program.
16:34 reactor You can use "yes n"
16:34 john_minetest hi reactor
16:34 smoke_fumus|2 joined #minetest
16:34 zash alias no='yes n' :D
16:34 reactor Hello, john_minetest
16:34 zsoltisawesome i know
16:34 reactor How's the science?
16:34 zsoltisawesome i just figured that out
16:36 thexyz john_minetest: sam, i think
16:36 EvergreenTree Sam Has sort of become his name
16:37 OWNSyouAll here come the net splits
16:37 q66 joined #minetest
16:37 PilzAdam sfan5, op party now?
16:37 sfan5 not enough netsplit
16:37 sfan5 we need ChanServ to netsplit for an OP party
16:38 zsoltisawesome whats netsplit?
16:38 sfan5 zsoltisawesome: whats google?
16:38 PilzAdam sfan5, how do we get op then?
16:38 kaeza yay my kaeza account is on one side and diemartin is on the other side
16:38 diemartin joined #minetest
16:38 iqualfragile joined #minetest
16:38 Renoki joined #minetest
16:38 RealBadAngel joined #minetest
16:38 xiong joined #minetest
16:38 MinetestBot joined #minetest
16:38 zsoltisawesome :|
16:38 sfan5 PilzAdam: MinetestB... oh
16:38 reactor zsoltisawesome: pwned.
16:38 john_minetest thexyz, Jordach: Look at this: http://i.imgur.com/hw5dLON.png
16:38 zsoltisawesome lol
16:38 john_minetest :D
16:38 reactor !title
16:38 MinetestBot reactor: Document isn't HTML
16:38 zsoltisawesome lol
16:38 sfan5 we can only have op party if chanserv netsplits and MinetestBot stays here
16:39 thexyz why do you always !title stuff with .png at the end?
16:39 reactor MinetestBot: You aren't smart
16:39 kaeza lol Jordach
16:39 kaeza john_minetest, ^
16:39 sfan5 MinetestBot is smart!
16:39 sfan5 <3 MinetestBot
16:39 MinetestBot <3 sfan5
16:39 PilzAdam in soviet russia png !titles you
16:39 EvergreenTree lol
16:39 reactor No.
16:39 zsoltisawesome lol
16:39 zsoltisawesome was kicked by ShadowBot: Message repetition flood detected.
16:39 sfan5 hahahaha
16:39 john_minetest lol
16:39 EvergreenTree bwahahah
16:39 reactor In Stoned Russia, title !pngs you
16:39 PilzAdam good ShadowBot
16:39 * sfan5 pets ShadowBot
16:40 zsoltisawesome joined #minetest
16:40 reactor zsoltisawesome: pwned
16:40 * EvergreenTree throws a kitten at ShadowBot
16:40 * sfan5 puts a kitten on EvergreenTree's head
16:40 john_minetest In sibiria !title is frozen because the air is solid.
16:40 thexyz what the hell?
16:40 reactor Siberia*
16:40 zsoltisawesome reactor: :|
16:40 * john_minetest puts a kitten on EvergreenTree's head
16:40 reactor *SNEEZE*
16:40 reactor Stop mentioning animals, will you?
16:41 thexyz ShadowNinja: your bot is bullying people, please do something
16:41 * zsoltisawesome metions animals
16:41 EvergreenTree /s/head/treetop
16:41 * sfan5 puts Derpy Hooves on reactor's head
16:41 john_minetest Beautiful: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commo​ns/e/e5/%D0%A2%D0%B0%D0%BD%D1%8C%D0%BA%D0%B​0_%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BB%D0%B0%D0%B5%D1%82.JPG
16:41 PilzAdam thexyz, he said "lol" 3 times in a row
16:41 thexyz PilzAdam: http://irc.minetest.ru/min​etest/2013-12-13#i_3487506
16:41 zsoltisawesome i had nothing else to say
16:41 john_minetest lol
16:41 sfan5 >%D0%A2%D0%B0%D0%BD%D1%8C%D0%BA%D0%B0_%​D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BB%D0%B0%D0%B5%D1%82.JPG
16:41 john_minetest lol
16:41 john_minetest lol
16:41 john_minetest was kicked by ShadowBot: Message repetition flood detected.
16:41 john_minetest joined #minetest
16:41 john_minetest lol
16:41 john_minetest was kicked by ShadowBot: Message repetition flood detected.
16:41 zsoltisawesome haha
16:41 thexyz I guess freenode borked?
16:42 john_minetest joined #minetest
16:42 EvergreenTree lollollollollollollollollollol
16:42 john_minetest xD
16:42 EvergreenTree lol
16:42 sfan5 meow
16:42 EvergreenTree lolvv
16:42 EvergreenTree lol
16:42 john_minetest lol
16:42 * sfan5 puts a kitten on EvergreenTree's head
16:42 EvergreenTree Lolparty?
16:42 * sfan5 puts a kitten on john_minetest's head
16:42 reactor john_minetest: you're repetitive.
16:42 zsoltisawesome lol
16:42 * sfan5 puts a kitten on reactor's head
16:42 EvergreenTree /s/head/treetop
16:42 john_minetest xD
16:42 thexyz lol
16:42 * Hirato obits everyone with a banana
16:42 EvergreenTree lol
16:42 reactor sfan5: keep ponies away from me.
16:42 EvergreenTree lol
16:42 thexyz anyway, this is strange
16:42 EvergreenTree lol
16:42 EvergreenTree was kicked by ShadowBot: Message repetition flood detected.
16:42 * reactor sneezes again
16:42 EvergreenTree joined #minetest
16:42 sfan5 !rainbow I like kittens. :3
16:42 zsoltisawesome lol
16:42 reactor Kittens, too.
16:42 sfan5 MinetestBot!
16:42 sfan5 wat the
16:43 Hirato !rainbow a magical pudding?
16:43 EvergreenTree <3 ShadowBot
16:43 PilzAdam sfan5, too much lulz for MinetestBot
16:43 EvergreenTree <3 MinetestBot
16:43 zsoltisawesome lol
16:43 reactor A medical pudding.
16:43 zsoltisawesome was kicked by ShadowBot: Message repetition flood detected.
16:43 zsoltisawesome joined #minetest
16:43 Hirato LOLOLOLOLO
16:43 EvergreenTree zsoltisawesome, you're getting owned
16:43 sfan5 :-/
16:43 zsoltisawesome indeed
16:43 reactor zsoltisawesome: on a regular basis.
16:43 EvergreenTree !rainbow NYANCATS
16:43 iqualfragile_ joined #minetest
16:43 zsoltisawesome !rainbow rainbow
16:44 * EvergreenTree sets a nyancat on sfan5's head
16:44 sfan5 freenode broke
16:44 reactor Fail.
16:44 thexyz indeed
16:44 sfan5 MinetestBot disconnected but..
16:44 EvergreenTree indeedy
16:44 * sfan5 throws a kitten at EvergreenTree
16:44 reactor indeedyish
16:44 * EvergreenTree deflects
16:44 sfan5 another netsplit ahead I think
16:44 Hirato it would've left by now I'd think
16:44 realbadangel_ joined #minetest
16:44 * Hirato sends a ping and waits
16:44 q66 joined #minetest
16:44 blaaaaargh joined #minetest
16:44 xiong_ joined #minetest
16:44 * zsoltisawesome throws a baseball at Hirato
16:44 * sfan5 slaps zsoltisawesome
16:44 EvergreenTree blaaaaargh,
16:45 sfan5 ah.. wrong buttom
16:45 reactor Yay! Vandalism!
16:45 * EvergreenTree slaps everyone
16:45 * Hirato turns into a dog and catches it
16:45 * sfan5 puts Rainbow Dash on Hirato's head
16:45 * reactor tries to break EvergreenTree's branch.
16:45 * zsoltisawesome slaps sfan5
16:45 blaaaaargh EvergreenTreeeeeeeee
16:45 * Hirato has become one with the brony
16:45 * EvergreenTree apprehends reactor
16:45 sfan5 meh
16:45 * EvergreenTree sets Derpyhooves on Hirato's head
16:45 Vohveli joined #minetest
16:45 Jordach should i just give MinetestBot a poke?
16:45 * zsoltisawesome becomes very Derpy
16:45 Hirato MinetestBot: you spell like elderberries
16:46 * reactor comprehends EvergreenTree
16:46 zsoltisawesome lol
16:46 Someguy123 joined #minetest
16:46 EvergreenTree zsoltisawesome, you were already derpy
16:46 EvergreenTree now you've become super derpy
16:46 thexyz I feel offended by your recent action(s). Please read http://stop-irc-bullying.eu/stop
16:46 reactor Indeed. Getting pwned on a regular basis
16:46 zsoltisawesome but now im very derpy
16:46 Hirato derpy^2
16:46 sfan5 MinetestBot!
16:46 reactor Wrong link, thexyz. It's "http://start-irc-bullying.eu/start".
16:46 thexyz lol
16:46 zsoltisawesome I don't feel offended by your recent action(s). Please read http://start-irc-bullying.eu/start
16:46 thexyz reactor: why bully
16:47 zsoltisawesome lol
16:47 reactor thexyz: ?
16:47 reactor I'm not bullying anyone.
16:47 thexyz that's so unnice :(
16:47 Hirato double plus unnice
16:47 john_minetest reactor: You are always against bronies
16:47 reactor I unbellyfeel bronisms.
16:47 thexyz wait
16:48 thexyz do you mean someone actually watches MLP?
16:48 thexyz like, not kids
16:48 reactor john_minetest does.
16:48 zsoltisawesome yes....
16:48 thexyz but adults?
16:48 reactor He's in denial about it, but it's fine.
16:48 thexyz ah
16:48 thexyz should check it out
16:48 reactor thexyz: I've heard stories about adults being stuck in that.
16:48 sfan5 goddamnit
16:48 sfan5 MinetestBot!
16:48 thexyz or maybe not
16:48 Hirato bronies represent, if anyone else has BALLS, leave a video response of yours.
16:48 * EvergreenTree slaps MinetestBot
16:48 PilzAdam "Feel free to join #start-irc-bullying on irc.rizon.net. – If you don't know how, fuck you."
16:48 zsoltisawesome lol
16:49 EvergreenTree plol
16:49 john_minetest reactor: I think it is worse to be fan of something like BSD. That is unnatural. Ponies with big eyes are "cute" because of human instincts. It is natural.
16:49 reactor Heheh.
16:49 reactor john_minetest: I like logic, that's it.
16:49 john_minetest Liking logic is unhuman
16:49 thexyz lol
16:49 zsoltisawesome john_minetest: +1
16:49 john_minetest GlaDOS
16:49 EvergreenTree It's Vulcan
16:49 thexyz ponies with big eyes [...] natural
16:49 thexyz well, okay
16:49 EvergreenTree ^
16:49 reactor john_minetest: I AM NOT A ROBOT
16:49 thexyz I can buy it
16:49 EvergreenTree ohsnap
16:49 Hirato oh my, live cht
16:49 zsoltisawesome lol
16:49 PilzAdam sfan5, op party now?
16:50 sfan5 ah, finally
16:50 john_minetest thexyz: Big eyes -> protector instinct. The same reasons everybody likes kittens
16:50 Hirato I know what my opening line is, "hello,? is this abuse?"
16:50 john_minetest !op
16:50 ShadowBot john_minetest: Error: You're missing some capability you need. This could be because you actually possess the anti-capability for the capability that's required of you, or because the channel provides that anti-capability by default, or because the global capabilities include that anti-capability. Or, it could be because the channel or supybot.capabilities.default is set to False, meaning that no commands are allowed unless ex
16:50 reactor Well.
16:50 reactor Eh.
16:50 sfan5 PilzAdam: <sfan5> we can only have op party if chanserv netsplits and MinetestBot stays here
16:50 reactor Animals might be cute, aight.
16:50 reactor But why ponies?
16:50 thexyz john_minetest: what about the plot?
16:50 MinetestBot joined #minetest
16:50 PilzAdam sfan5, what is MTBot netsplits and ChanServ stays here?
16:50 zsoltisawesome lol the anti-capibility
16:50 Hirato Hmmm.. not sure I want to
16:50 reactor And bronies tend to be overdoing it.
16:50 EvergreenTree !rainbow NYANCAT
16:50 MinetestBot N9YA6N7CA6T
16:50 EvergreenTree w0000
16:50 reactor Some even sexualise what is not supposed to be sexualised.
16:50 sfan5 finally.. that's been a long netsplit
16:51 sfan5 PilzAdam: nothing
16:51 thexyz !rainbow Error: You're missing some capability you need. This could be because you actually possess the anti-capability for the capability that's required of you, or because the channel provides that anti-capability by default, or because the global capabilities include that anti-capability. Or, it could be because the channel or supybot.capabilities.default is set to False, meaning that no commands are allowed unless exp
16:51 MinetestBot 7Er5ro6r: 2Y2ou'5r8e6 7m8is6s3ing 8s5o3me8 c6a5pa7bil7ity yo7u 5ne9e5d.2 3T9hi2s 6co7uld8 2be3 7b8eca9u9s3e9 4y4ou8 4ac8tua6l2l3y 2p8o2s2se8ss7 t7h9e8 3a8n3t5i4-c5a3p3a3b6il4i2t2y 5f7o8r th9e2 7capa8b2ilit2y 9tha
16:51 thexyz why, you didn't even try
16:51 EvergreenTree I'm ashamed of you MinetestBot
16:51 Hirato !rainbow Baguette
16:51 MinetestBot 3Bag4uett9e
16:51 sfan5 thexyz: limitation in phenny
16:51 john_minetest thexyz: Is that a question or not, \ and you see that the plot \ is predictable, not new
16:51 MinetestBot EvergreenTree: :-(
16:51 zsoltisawesome !rainbow Rainbow Dash
16:51 MinetestBot Ra8i4n4bo7w 7Da5s3h
16:51 john_minetest !rainbow dash
16:51 MinetestBot d4ash
16:51 john_minetest lol
16:51 zsoltisawesome lol
16:51 john_minetest same thought
16:52 reactor !rainbow Aperture Science?
16:52 MinetestBot 8Ap6er8t3u6r7e Sc6i3en4ce5?
16:52 thardin pone
16:52 zsoltisawesome great minds think alike
16:52 EvergreenTree !slap someone
16:52 zsoltisawesome :D
16:52 reactor !slap EvergreenTree
16:52 Hirato !rainbow Your mind on drugs
16:52 MinetestBot 6Y5o2u5r8 min2d 8o9n dru3g8s
16:52 * MinetestBot slaps EvergreenTree
16:52 reactor No workie :(
16:52 zsoltisawesome !op YourMom
16:52 EvergreenTree That backfired
16:52 thexyz sfan5: btw, rainbow looks a bit different
16:52 reactor MinetestBot is stoned?
16:52 john_minetest zsoltisawesome: Actually rainbow dash and princess celestia are the only ponies I can name when I see them.
16:53 reactor john_minetest: whatever rocks your boat, mate.
16:53 john_minetest Failed a few days ago when I met a bronie and couldn't identify derpy :D
16:53 zash You know, in other parts of IRC, even thinking about writing such a command would carry the death penalty
16:53 sfan5 thexyz: yes, ik
16:53 zsoltisawesome tinyurl.com/derpy-hooves-base64
16:54 Renoki joined #minetest
16:54 dzho joined #minetest
16:54 john_minetest reactor: Rock my boat? -> http://i.imgur.com/hw5dLON.png
16:54 zsoltisawesome it takes a very long time to laod
16:54 zsoltisawesome lol
16:54 reactor john_minetest: ?
16:54 us_0gb joined #minetest
16:54 us_0gb joined #minetest
16:54 zsoltisawesome !title
16:54 MinetestBot zsoltisawesome: Document isn't HTML
16:54 zsoltisawesome fail
16:54 reactor john_minetest: I mean, whatever stones your bot.
16:54 zsoltisawesome lol
16:54 zsoltisawesome http://tinyurl.com/derpy-hooves-base64
16:54 zsoltisawesome !title
16:54 MinetestBot LineTooLong: got more than 65536 bytes when reading header line (file "/usr/lib/python2.7/httplib.py", line 282, in readheaders)
16:54 zsoltisawesome lol
16:55 zsoltisawesome i bet thats the fist time that happened
16:55 zsoltisawesome *first
16:55 reactor I mean, whatever you're into, mate.
16:55 reactor I've known it all along.
16:55 thexyz zsoltisawesome: what's that evil url?
16:55 reactor zsoltisawesome must be the GLaDOS.
16:55 reactor I am not.
16:55 zsoltisawesome its a base64 encoded image
16:56 zsoltisawesome that like ~2000x~3000 px
16:56 zsoltisawesome https://www.filepicker.io/ap​i/file/n9ni4RxVRnWEdy1nEnHo
16:57 zsoltisawesome non base64 version
16:57 thexyz do people find this cute?
16:57 zsoltisawesome yes
16:57 thexyz okay
16:57 reactor I, personally, find pictures of humans more attractive.
16:57 zsoltisawesome i have a question for you, thexyz
16:58 reactor But again, whatever you're into.
16:58 ImQ009_ joined #minetest
16:58 thexyz zsoltisawesome: yes?
16:58 kaeza this is cuter: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/100008207/Sc​reenshot%20from%202013-11-11%2012%3A37%3A32.jpg
16:58 kaeza :3
16:58 zsoltisawesome do russian people find this cute? (no offence)
16:58 thexyz kaeza: default theme can't be
16:58 thexyz zsoltisawesome: find what cute?
16:58 thexyz also >jpg
16:59 kaeza thexyz, default theme?
16:59 thexyz > dat clock
16:59 thexyz is it not?
16:59 reactor Winblows.
16:59 kaeza no it isn't
16:59 thexyz > dat frame around dat clock
16:59 kaeza it's "Redmond" theme
16:59 thexyz > icons on desktop
16:59 kaeza is this better? https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/100008207/Sc​reenshot%20from%202013-11-16%2023%3A24%3A30.jpg
16:59 zsoltisawesome dem should make a Whisler theme
17:00 thexyz kaeza: disable frame around the clock
17:00 zsoltisawesome lol
17:00 zsoltisawesome thexyz: https://www.filepicker.io/ap​i/file/n9ni4RxVRnWEdy1nEnHo
17:01 thexyz zsoltisawesome: well I can't speak for all russians
17:01 thexyz you can ask me and reactor and proller__ though
17:01 blaaaaargh dis lag
17:01 thexyz I think it looks frightening
17:01 zsoltisawesome lol
17:01 * Jordach buys john_minetest a wacom drawing pad
17:01 zsoltisawesome ooooooh
17:02 zsoltisawesome i want
17:02 john_minetest Jordach: Lol, that could be useful. I only have got inkscape and a mouse.
17:02 proller__ i dislike any japan art
17:02 Jordach john_minetest, i could do better ;)
17:02 john_minetest I never used any graphics tablet.
17:02 zsoltisawesome it aint japanese art
17:02 john_minetest I don't know how to use it
17:02 zsoltisawesome https://www.filepicker.io/ap​i/file/n9ni4RxVRnWEdy1nEnHo
17:02 thexyz meh stop posting that pick
17:03 reactor I dislike Japan stuff, too.
17:03 reactor Nothing personal.
17:03 proller__ except Hayao Miyazaki
17:03 kaeza Clearlooks
17:03 zsoltisawesome lol
17:03 thexyz i too dislike stuff except good stuff
17:03 diemartin I said that two minutes ago ._.
17:03 EmmetCooper joined #minetest
17:04 thexyz also is freenode still borked?
17:04 Hirato lol, someone is self-destructing in sauerbraten's IRC
17:04 zsoltisawesome lolo
17:05 EmmetCooper hey guys just wanna ask if someone here is familiar with perlin noise. cuz i dont. kinda need to learn it
17:05 Jordach Hirato, haven't seen you for a while
17:05 Hirato hi Jordach
17:05 kaeza EmmetCooper, ask paramat
17:06 EmmetCooper paramat?
17:06 Jordach all i've been doing is learning my blender
17:06 Hirato didn'y you used to hang out in #redeclipse with me and the rest of the bros?
17:06 Jordach *ding dong*
17:06 Jordach uhm, wut
17:06 Hirato the cake is done?
17:06 Jordach see said channel
17:06 * Hirato whistles
17:06 EmmetCooper left #minetest
17:07 EmmetCooper joined #minetest
17:07 john_minetest Hirato: The cake is a lie.
17:07 Jordach Hirato, no really, i've learned too much blender :P http://i.imgur.com/dUvEgE7.png
17:07 iqualfragile_ Jordach: are there any other drawing pads then wacom?
17:07 reactor Daring?
17:07 diemartin dem fingers
17:07 reactor Darwing* pads?
17:07 Jordach iqualfragile_, can't find anyothers in my local area
17:08 reactor The cake is not a lie. You just have to wait for it a bit longer, alright?
17:08 iqualfragile_ Jordach: like… the internet?
17:08 reactor And do a couple of tests while waiting.
17:08 Jordach iqualfragile_, i don't do internet shopping
17:08 reactor How about Internet snooping?
17:08 iqualfragile_ why?
17:08 john_minetest Jordach: Do you have got a graphics tablet?
17:09 Jordach john_minetest, they're about 30 euros from the nearest place where i can get one
17:09 * Jordach would like one as well
17:13 zsoltisawesome anoyone know thw current exchange rate fr eurs to usd
17:13 zsoltisawesome *for
17:13 Jordach just google it
17:14 sfan5 MinetestBot!
17:14 sfan5 not again
17:14 zsoltisawesome 1.37300
17:14 MinetestBot IOError: [Errno socket error] [Errno 110] Connection timed out (file "/usr/lib/python2.7/socket.py", line 571, in create_connection)
17:14 sfan5 wat
17:14 dzho joined #minetest
17:15 MinetestBot IOError: [Errno socket error] [Errno 110] Connection timed out (file "/usr/lib/python2.7/socket.py", line 571, in create_connection)
17:17 MinetestBot GIT: kahrl commited to minetest/minetest: Don't call curl_global_init twice e275b7099a 2013-12-13T09:08:53-08:00 http://git.io/1aGazw
17:18 john_minetest Jordach: <random> http://i.imgur.com/HG0KyFP.png </random>
17:19 zsoltisawesome look what someone did: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SHUT_THE_FUCK_UP
17:20 zsoltisawesome !title
17:20 zsoltisawesome oh right
17:20 zsoltisawesome it dont work right now
17:21 sfan5 oh.. MinetestBot tried to connect to git.io too announce commits
17:22 zsoltisawesome lol
17:22 us|0gb joined #minetest
17:22 us|0gb joined #minetest
17:22 zsoltisawesome ghit
17:24 zsoltisawesome hey guys
17:24 berome joined #minetest
17:24 zsoltisawesome ummm is it possible to copy minetestgame into another repo without forking?
17:24 berome left #minetest
17:25 EmmetCooper left #minetest
17:25 zsoltisawesome us|0gb: its nice to see you too
17:25 MinetestBot joined #minetest
17:25 us|0gb Hey, zsoltisawesome! Nice to see you too.
17:25 sfan5 zsoltisawesome: why would you not want to fork?
17:26 zsoltisawesome well, i already have some work done
17:26 Gethiox joined #minetest
17:26 ifireball joined #minetest
17:27 zsoltisawesome i wish there was like a webapp to use git
17:27 zsoltisawesome then i could add files and shit
17:27 us|0gb Forking or not, won't copying the minetest_game leave you with a copy that doesn't have your changes?
17:27 OWNSyouAll zsoltisawesome, http://gitlab.org/
17:28 ifireball hello is it ok to ask question about the gameplay itself here?
17:28 OWNSyouAll Yeah ifireball
17:28 zsoltisawesome damn its blocked
17:28 kaeza ifireball, don't ask to ask, just ask
17:29 kaeza zsoltisawesome, git push https://github.com/example/repo.git
17:29 ifireball ok, I've been playing on Ubuntu, and sme stuff seem not to be like the wiki I was wondering if I have  an old version or something, and where can I find release notes that can teel me what to expect
17:29 kaeza replace example with your username and repo.git with your repo name
17:29 OWNSyouAll ifireball, did you just do sudo apt-get install minetest?
17:29 ifireball I can;t seem to be able to make doors for example
17:29 zsoltisawesome and what'll that do
17:29 ifireball OWNSyouAll, yeah
17:30 OWNSyouAll Yeah your on an older version then
17:30 ShadowNinja I wouldn't advi
17:30 us|0gb Yeah, the Ubuntu version is way outdated.
17:30 OWNSyouAll If you want the newer stuff install minetest from a PPA or compile it from source
17:30 ShadowNinja se teasing ShadowBot. She will ban.
17:30 ImQ009 joined #minetest
17:30 zsoltisawesome hmm, how does one tease a female bot?
17:30 ifireball OWNSyouAll, ohw can I figure out what this version is missing? (Except trying everything...)
17:31 ifireball OWNSyouAll, If I upgrade, will t read my existing world?
17:31 zsoltisawesome yes
17:31 OWNSyouAll It should
17:31 OWNSyouAll See if you can find the version number in the main menu under the about tab
17:31 us|0gb OWNSyouAll: https://launchpad.net/~min​etestdevs/+archive/stable
17:31 us|0gb Oops, I mean ifireball: https://launchpad.net/~min​etestdevs/+archive/stable
17:32 zsoltisawesome us|0gb: lol
17:32 zsoltisawesome http://5.231.56.127/
17:32 ifireball OWNSyouAll, I've got c55 0.3.1 (says so in the screen corner)
17:32 ifireball us|0gb, thanks
17:32 zsoltisawesome holy crap
17:32 zsoltisawesome outdated is right
17:32 zsoltisawesome mods wont even run on that
17:33 OWNSyouAll Yeah thats super old no wonder the wiki isn't help you
17:33 zsoltisawesome !title
17:33 MinetestBot zsoltisawesome: No title found
17:33 ifireball well I guess I;d have to upgrade and just corss my fingers and hope it loads the world...
17:33 OWNSyouAll Make a backup of the world first
17:34 ifireball yeah
17:34 zsoltisawesome :( EvergreenTree is gone...
17:34 Hirato oh joy, he's stopped flooding, and now we're feeding the troll, haha
17:34 john_minetest brb
17:34 ifireball tanothere question, I have a mine that keeps filling back up, is that the gave's way of telling me to stop digging down?
17:34 kaeza ifireball, the world loads OK, but new generated areas don't look the same due to changes in map generation
17:35 ifireball game*
17:35 zsoltisawesome well, its a glitch in that version
17:35 ifireball or is that just a "special feature " of this old version? :)
17:35 kaeza that is weird
17:35 zsoltisawesome i alway had blocks disappear and stuff like that
17:35 ifireball funny, well going to upgrade, thanks everyone
17:36 john_minetest joined #minetest
17:36 zsoltisawesome then MT 0.4.1 came out, and i'm all "YAY! LESS BLOCK SPAZZING"
17:36 zsoltisawesome cause it still happens every once in a great while
17:38 FreeFull joined #minetest
17:38 ifireball is the fact that I always get buried 6 feet under whenever I load the game also a "feature" of this version? (I thought this was funny as hell)
17:38 zsoltisawesome how does one create a new folder using the web interface?
17:38 OWNSyouAll ifireball, oh god i forgot about that yeah that is fixed in newer versions
17:38 zsoltisawesome yeah
17:38 zsoltisawesome that was soooooo annoying
17:38 ifireball OWNSyouAll, too bad that was fun :)
17:39 zsoltisawesome i would keep dieing
17:39 zsoltisawesome i didnt know about j and k
17:39 zsoltisawesome XD
17:39 ifireball I got used to alwas quiting the game while standing on a dirt hill so it will be easy to get out :)
17:40 smoke_fumus joined #minetest
17:41 zsoltisawesome how does one create a new folder using the web interface of github?
17:43 us|0gb zsoltisawesome: I'm not sure you can.
17:43 us|0gb The web interface is ... incomplete.
17:43 zsoltisawesome thats very lame
17:43 us|0gb It is indeed.
17:43 zsoltisawesome i now officaily hate git
17:44 blaaaaargh joined #minetest
17:45 qwebirc67316 joined #minetest
17:45 kaeza zsoltisawesome, why?
17:45 ShadowNinja ifireball: What version are you using? IIRC that was fixed very, very long ago. (But some distros *cough*like ubuntu*cough* don't update for years)
17:45 zsoltisawesome its too limited without the git program
17:45 kaeza lol
17:46 zsoltisawesome 0.3.1
17:46 kaeza okay, have fun then
17:46 zsoltisawesome hes using 0.3.1
17:46 zsoltisawesome i would use git only i could find a version that ran on windows
17:47 ShadowNinja ifireball: Well if you're on ubuntu run "sudo apt-add-repository ppa:minetestdevs/stable && sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get upgrade"
17:47 ifireball zsoltisawesome, I read somewhere github had such a version (I wouldn't know, don't have Windows....)
17:47 zsoltisawesome and is RunInPlace...
17:47 zsoltisawesome well they do
17:47 zsoltisawesome but you have to install it
17:48 ifireball ShadowBot, yeah, thanks (I kinda know how to use a PPA already...)
17:48 kaeza such invonvenience
17:48 kaeza very wow
17:48 ifireball ShadowNinja , yeah, thanks (I kinda know how to use a PPA already...)
17:48 kaeza inc*
17:48 sfan5 realbadangel_: what's wrong with my bumpmaps? http://i.imgur.com/lRX6yB0.png
17:49 zsoltisawesome kaeza: Please don't be a jerk
17:49 ShadowNinja ifireball: No offense intended.
17:49 ifireball ShadowNinja, none taken
17:50 kaeza zsoltisawesome, alright
17:52 * Jordach just noobed
17:53 Jordach loaded the model in the wrong version of blender
17:53 zsoltisawesome finally
17:53 zsoltisawesome i found a version of git
17:53 zsoltisawesome http://code.google.com/p/msysgit/downloa​ds/detail?name=PortableGit-1.8.4-preview​20130916.7z&amp;can=2&amp;q=official+git
17:57 qwebirc10680 joined #minetest
17:57 dhbiker joined #minetest
18:03 ifireball ShadowNinja, btw, apt-get upgrade wouldn't have worked because the package name in the PPA is different then th one in the distro repo
18:03 kaeza http://cheezburger.com/7952139264
18:04 ShadowNinja ifireball: Hmmm, did they name it minetest-c55?
18:04 zash It's called just 'minetest' in Ubuntu
18:05 zash and Debian, http://packages.debian.org​/search?keywords=minetest
18:06 Issa2013 joined #minetest
18:07 ShadowNinja Hmmm, it's named minetestc55 there. PilzAdam: Fix that. :-)
18:07 Pest joined #minetest
18:07 ifireball hmm... where does 0.4.8 look for the texture packs? does setting in minetest.conf still work?
18:09 PilzAdam ShadowNinja, eh,  I better dont mess up the launchpad scripts
18:10 sistinas joined #minetest
18:11 MinetestBot GIT: ShadowNinja commited to minetest/minetest: Remove support for optdepends.txt 83853ccd41 2013-12-13T10:10:24-08:00 http://git.io/fcXnhw
18:18 ifireball bleh... seems like it didn't load the world... gonna have to redo everything...
18:20 zsoltisawesome may have spawned you in diffferent place
18:20 ifireball I don't have any of my items...
18:24 zsoltisawesome oh
18:25 zsoltisawesome you logged in as singleplayer
18:25 ifireball oh, how do i change that?
18:25 zsoltisawesome well, it should be in your saves folder
18:26 zsoltisawesome or what ever
18:26 Jordach Advanced > <player name> <password> <your world here>
18:26 Jordach ifireball, use the advanced tab
18:26 zsoltisawesome that works too
18:26 Jordach with the same name you used for the local world
18:27 ifireball ok... waiting for it to load back (it crashed :( )
18:27 ifireball I;m not seed and advanced tab
18:28 ifireball not seeing
18:28 Megaf joined #minetest
18:29 qwebirc84087 joined #minetest
18:29 ifireball ok it was the server tab that did the trick, lol it buried my house :)
18:29 qwebirc84087 Hi all
18:29 Jordach ifireball, there is a newer mapgen
18:30 qwebirc84087 cool nick I got uh?
18:30 Jordach the server WILL create new chunks with the new mapgen
18:30 Jordach including restoring the already dug caves
18:30 qwebirc84087 joined #minetest
18:30 qwebirc84087 joined #minetest
18:31 Megaf_ joined #minetest
18:31 Megaf what?
18:32 Megaf My computer have his own will
18:33 tirsod2000 joined #minetest
18:37 Calinou joined #minetest
18:37 ifireball this version crashes a lot :(
18:37 Issa2013 Calinou,
18:41 thexyz what's the most bloated server? with mods and textures that take ages to load
18:41 Jordach vanessa's survival world
18:41 Jordach it crashed freeminer droid
18:41 zsoltisawesome lol
18:42 thexyz VanessaE: where can I download your vanessae_game?
18:42 specing What do the following parameters mean:
18:42 specing clust_scarcity = 15*15*15,
18:42 specing clust_num_ores = 4,
18:42 specing clust_size     = 3
18:42 Jordach specing, careful
18:43 Jordach i can *HEAR* ShadowBot ticking
18:43 zsoltisawesome LOL
18:43 zsoltisawesome you amuse me
18:44 Jordach if you make lots of lines at once, ShadowBot will kick you, repeat offenders will get banned from the channel
18:46 Megaf left #minetest
18:46 rubenwardy joined #minetest
18:46 Jordach <VE-Survival> *** pomfpomfpomf18 joined the game <- thexyz, this being you?
18:47 rubenwardy Hi all
18:47 rubenwardy ha
18:47 rubenwardy C++ time!
18:47 kaeza lol C++
18:47 thexyz wow, that's some bloat indeed
18:47 thexyz Jordach: yes
18:47 Tux[Qyou] joined #minetest
18:47 thexyz oh, but it uses remote_media
18:48 Calinou I thought she refused to use remote_media
18:48 rubenwardy kaeza: lol meaning C++ is bad, or C++ is complicated?
18:48 thexyz the cdn only has about 1/3 of her files
18:49 kaeza rubenwardy, I prefer either C or Java
18:49 rubenwardy But C is apparently not OOP
18:49 kaeza OOP is doable in C
18:50 kaeza even inheritance and stuff like that
18:50 kaeza see Gtk+
18:50 thexyz what a lagfest
18:51 Jordach also http://i.imgur.com/6J1vefx.png
18:52 Jordach sort of solved the thumb mystery
18:52 thexyz oh wow who has done that with this poor guy
18:59 Jordach thexyz, readied for creating animations for the interwebz
18:59 rubenwardy http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-8Z4k7​E8Pg&amp;list=UUggccVQxXZFny58cconVANA ????
19:00 PilzAdam Jordach, pixel error at the head
19:00 Jordach PilzAdam, blender's internal does that along cube edges for some reason
19:02 Jordach i also make pavel's model look like last century ;)
19:04 xiong_ joined #minetest
19:11 rubenwardy Bloody amazing. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3bGYljQ5Uw
19:11 Jordach rubenwardy, test me: http://www.mediafire.com/download/​w3p7bk0ljtmrrs9/TemplateMale.blend
19:11 Jordach you will need the latest stable however..
19:12 rubenwardy Sorry, I dont have blender atm
19:12 rubenwardy Bookmarked, though
19:18 djdduty joined #minetest
19:22 Jordach the more people who experiment, the better
19:23 twoelk joined #minetest
19:25 PandemoniuM joined #minetest
19:34 LazyJ joined #minetest
19:36 Jordach btw, dual male and female experiment incoming :O
19:40 mrtux joined #minetest
19:46 Jordach WOW.
19:46 Jordach two models really bump up the render time...
19:47 Jordach and my experimental reflections work :D
19:48 thexyz look at sfan5 saving minetest http://i.imgur.com/W3Vo3K4.png
19:49 thexyz from the collapse
19:49 thexyz because of bugs
19:49 Jordach lol
19:52 Jordach btw, i might make entire renders based off of IRC antics
19:52 Miner_48er joined #minetest
19:54 rubenwardy Seriously?
19:54 rubenwardy You have nothing better to do?
19:55 thexyz IRC antics?
19:55 PilzAdam Jordach, https://forum.minetest.net/vie​wtopic.php?pid=121930#p121930 you say that you need people to find bugs, but then you say if they find bugs they are using the wrong blender version....
19:55 Jordach rubenwardy, i want to keep testing my models upto their breaking point
19:55 Jordach PilzAdam, i built it within 2.69
19:56 Jordach with 2.69 specific features
19:57 john_minetest The free software song is so bad.f
19:57 john_minetest The melody can't be ported to other music styles
19:57 rubenwardy ah ok
19:58 rsiska joined #minetest
20:01 Calinou joined #minetest
20:05 thexyz I remember there being a topic where people drew some GUI for android minetest, can someone point me at it?
20:07 zsoltisawesome hey, what is everyones FPS while running Minetest?
20:07 Jordach 30-40 with full shaders
20:07 Hirato 30-40 irrespective of shaders ^^
20:08 zsoltisawesome i run at about 20-30 with shaders
20:08 Miner_48er zsoltisawesome any mods?
20:08 zsoltisawesome nope
20:08 rubenwardy http://ubuntuone.com/7BuxzGhX4wDjvcitMV62Kz
20:08 rubenwardy (screenshot of new nodebox editor
20:08 thexyz or was I wrong?
20:08 rubenwardy )
20:08 zsoltisawesome exept core modifations on like the apple and stuff
20:08 thexyz someone should make formspec editor
20:09 rubenwardy kaeza ^
20:09 rubenwardy He made one
20:09 rubenwardy (python, tkinter)
20:09 rubenwardy See github
20:09 rubenwardy gtg
20:09 kaeza yes, but it's far from finished
20:09 zsoltisawesome guys, i tried to go to the website
20:09 Jordach i am dissapoint
20:10 zsoltisawesome and it wont let me
20:10 Jordach rubenwardy is using windows
20:10 Jordach zsoltisawesome, your filter remember
20:10 kaeza https://github.com/kaeza/minetest-fsd
20:10 kaeza thexyz, ^
20:10 zsoltisawesome no
20:10 zsoltisawesome it says:
20:10 zsoltisawesome SSL Not Enabled
20:10 zsoltisawesome This site is not enabled for SSL. Please follow this link to visit the site without SSL.
20:10 kaeza https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/100008207/Sc​reenshot%20from%202013-11-12%2014%3A21%3A25.png
20:11 * Jordach thinks MITM might be around
20:11 kaeza also this: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/100008207/Sc​reenshot%20from%202013-11-12%2016%3A08%3A39.png
20:12 zsoltisawesome nice
20:12 thexyz how up-to-date is it?
20:15 kaeza not very
20:15 zsoltisawesome (< . . . . .
20:15 zsoltisawesome ^ supposed to be pacman
20:15 kaeza ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
20:16 zsoltisawesome :O
20:16 zsoltisawesome i envy you
20:17 Jordach done
20:17 Jordach https://gist.github.com/Jo​rdach/97fb16478562c60c10b3
20:18 Megaf_ Hi all
20:18 Jordach ASCII art is another one of the things i can do
20:18 Megaf_ Hi Jordach kaeza
20:18 kaeza hey
20:18 zsoltisawesome nice
20:19 Megaf_ what do you think is better? megaf.co.vu or minetest.megaf.info?
20:19 zsoltisawesome latter one
20:19 Pilcrow joined #minetest
20:20 Pilcrow VanessaE
20:22 Pilcrow I made a pull request for homedecor on github. fixes a very minor issue. this is my first github usage, so let me know if I've done something wrong~  :P
20:31 zsoltisawesome what the derp
20:32 kaeza Pilcrow, merged
20:35 thexyz sfan5: http://i.imgur.com/ZXbTfmH.png showing off
20:39 john_minetest thexyz: Now we all know your hyper-secret code and can copy it and make... A crashing minetest client out of it or something like that... :D
20:39 thexyz it doesn't crash anymore I just forgot to remove this part
20:40 john_minetest lol
20:41 kaeza d'awwww https://forum.minetest.net/vie​wtopic.php?pid=121940#p121940
20:46 anunakki joined #minetest
20:51 * Jordach has that fluffy feeling again
20:52 Pilcrow thanks kaeza. it wasn't much of a change, but certain mods (including one I was working on) didn't like having a nil itemstack in on_rightclick.  ;)
20:52 Pest joined #minetest
20:53 kaeza Pilcrow, no, thank you for spotting that bug :P
20:53 roboman2444 joined #minetest
20:54 zsoltisawesome YAY he squashed a bug!
20:56 Tux[Qyou] joined #minetest
21:02 zsoltisawesome Jordach: I like your TV mod, I think i will include it in Moontest
21:02 Jordach zsoltisawesome, for fuck sakes, VanessaE beat me to that
21:02 Jordach mine is abm based. hers is node animation
21:03 zsoltisawesome hmm
21:03 zsoltisawesome i'll try it
21:04 kaeza speaking of that, homedecor needs to be split into submods
21:04 zsoltisawesome is it in homedecor?
21:04 thexyz > being mean
21:04 zsoltisawesome screw it then
21:04 thexyz > calling that sarcasm
21:05 thardin nobody likes sarcasm
21:05 john_minetest BLARGH
21:06 zsoltisawesome ./ignore thardin
21:06 Tuxedo[Qyou] joined #minetest
21:06 * zsoltisawesome has hated on thardin
21:08 zsoltisawesome where is said tv defined?
21:08 john_minetest lol, that worldoftext thing says that my favourite pony is derpy... Recently saw a picture and thought it was some other.
21:08 zsoltisawesome lol
21:09 Jordach 10 print "FUCK" 20 goto 10
21:09 Jordach https://forum.minetest.net/vie​wtopic.php?pid=121944#p121944
21:10 thexyz talk about shitty community
21:10 Jordach thexyz, nobody likes his "spamming"
21:10 Jordach it's literally things that are like missing a = from an if statement
21:11 Jordach such idiot, much lols
21:11 Jordach >Gmail, *checks mail*, rubenwardy has subscribed to you on YouTube
21:11 PilzAdam hows Moontest doing?
21:16 thexyz `10 print "FUCK" 20 goto 10` is spamming
21:16 zsoltisawesome its slowly coming along
21:16 Jordach thexyz, he has not made anything really constructive :P
21:17 zsoltisawesome I finally got some git tration
21:17 zsoltisawesome *traction
21:17 Jordach wot
21:17 Jordach woot
21:17 Jordach made automatic hat cubicness (just cutout the uv where it's black and there you go!)
21:18 zsoltisawesome http://www.github.com/lordcirth/moontest
21:19 Jordach nononononononononono
21:19 Jordach bad
21:19 Jordach no roblox
21:19 zsoltisawesome lol
21:19 PilzAdam zsoltisawesome, do you have fun breaking the law?
21:19 zsoltisawesome thats my gravatar from way back
21:19 proller joined #minetest
21:20 Jordach if i wanted lego i'd go buy a box of lego :P
21:20 zsoltisawesome how am i breaking the law?
21:20 PilzAdam you cant distribute LGPL code as GPL
21:20 zsoltisawesome oops
21:20 PilzAdam same goes for CC BY-SA media
21:20 zsoltisawesome what version?
21:21 zsoltisawesome btw im not the one that did that
21:21 PilzAdam sure, its always that other guy
21:23 zsoltisawesome what, neither of us read the readme...
21:23 zsoltisawesome XD
21:23 zsoltisawesome that jsut sounds lam
21:23 zsoltisawesome e
21:24 zsoltisawesome fixing...
21:25 markveidemanis joined #minetest
21:25 markveidemanis joined #minetest
21:25 markveidemanis Hi
21:25 zsoltisawesome hi
21:26 Pilcrow kaeza, there is another bug but I can't seem to find its code. default:fence_wood is apparently re-defined somewhere in homedecor, but the added on_place code doesn't check to see if a right-clicked node has on_rightclick. meaning you can't open doors while holding a fence.
21:27 kaeza hmm
21:27 kaeza Pilcrow, everything sign-related is in signslib.lua
21:27 kaeza err signs_lib.lua
21:29 kaeza Pilcrow, here https://github.com/VanessaE/homede​cor/blob/master/signs_lib.lua#L384
21:29 markveidemanis I bought one of them quadcopters on ebay
21:30 markveidemanis waiting for it to charge not
21:30 markveidemanis *now
21:30 markveidemanis Is it right to fully charge it before first use?
21:30 markveidemanis Its a LiPo i think
21:30 Pilcrow actually, never mind that. I just realized the homedecor I have been using is quite outdated. I'll try updating and see if the bug is still present...
21:30 PilzAdam I bought an offtopic script, it gets you kicked in many IRC channels!
21:30 zsoltisawesome PilzAdam: umm do i need to include this line: Copyright (C) 2010-2012 celeron55, Perttu Ahola <celeron55@gmail.com>
21:31 PilzAdam zsoltisawesome, of course you have to
21:31 markveidemanis http://marktest.co.uk/2013/​12/manipulative-tag-cipher/ Another invention
21:31 thexyz PilzAdam: wat wat wat
21:31 markveidemanis Second one is much more relevant...
21:31 thexyz what's this nonsense
21:31 thexyz it's fine to distribute LGPL'd thing as GPL
21:32 zsoltisawesome erm
21:32 zsoltisawesome GET IT RIGHT! you guys are stressing me out
21:32 thexyz well, I'm not too sure what was the problem
21:33 zsoltisawesome well: https://github.com/lordcirth/moontest
21:33 thexyz (the original code is of course LGPL, the modified version is GPL, everything's fine)
21:33 zsoltisawesome but what about the CC BY-SA 3.0 shit
21:34 thexyz what about it?
21:34 zsoltisawesome I'm going to retexture everything anyway...
21:34 zsoltisawesome do i have to include?
21:34 thexyz include what?
21:34 thexyz oh well just copy all licenses and paste your things on the top
21:35 zsoltisawesome can i say this? "Some content is under the Attribution-ShareAlike 3.0 Unported (CC BY-SA 3.0) licence
21:35 zsoltisawesome http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"
21:36 PilzAdam you have to define what "Some content" means
21:37 zsoltisawesome :|
21:37 zsoltisawesome that was a vague IRC paste
21:37 PilzAdam you could as well just delete all the default images sounds and models and do your own stuff
21:37 zsoltisawesome THATS WHAT IM GOONA DO!
21:37 zsoltisawesome OMFG
21:38 PilzAdam as long as the repo contains CC BY-SA media you have to share these files as CC BY-SA
21:38 PilzAdam (I would recommend to write games completly from scratch and not base on mintest_game, btw)
21:38 zsoltisawesome how the hell would i know the directory structure?
21:38 zsoltisawesome ...
21:39 john_minetest Is just ANYTHING made in moontest?
21:39 Pilcrow lol, never mind kaeza. that bug seems to have been fixed for quite a while. silly me, forgetting to update...  :P
21:39 john_minetest If not I might be tempted to do it myself
21:39 zsoltisawesome lo
21:39 PilzAdam john_minetest, not really
21:39 zsoltisawesome i have made some very basic nodes
21:40 kaeza PilzAdam, no probs
21:40 zsoltisawesome that i havent included yet
21:40 kaeza err Pilcrow
21:41 zsoltisawesome can images and stuff be under GPL?
21:41 PilzAdam <zsoltisawesome> how the hell would i know the directory structure? <- what exactly do you mean by that?
21:41 thexyz zsoltisawesome: you love open source and licenses and stuff now?
21:41 zsoltisawesome its like mods/shit/textures
21:42 zsoltisawesome <sarcasm level=9001> Yes, yes I do. </sarcasm>
21:43 zsoltisawesome especially crap thats under multiple licences
21:43 Pilcrow kaeza: what?
21:43 * Pilcrow tries his best to look innocent...
21:44 * zsoltisawesome becomes very infuriated
21:44 kaeza Pilcrow, no probs (failed tab completion pinged Pilz Adam)
21:44 PilzAdam ... and you pinged me again
21:44 zsoltisawesome lol
21:45 zsoltisawesome lol
21:45 GingerJesus How's that?  :P
21:45 kaeza PilzAdam, so Pilz pings you?
21:45 kaeza :P
21:45 PilzAdam but I also get pinged when someone rants about PulseAudio, so nevermind
21:45 kaeza lol k
21:46 PilzAdam try, set a highlight for "PA" and youll get pinged every day
21:46 * GingerJesus actually DOES look like a ginger Jesus...  :P
21:46 PilzAdam +it
21:46 john_minetest PilzAdam: Can somebody delete the "mt sucks" thread? It is just DUMB. People throw around with prejudices.
21:47 PilzAdam john_minetest, which one?
21:47 john_minetest PilzAdam,  https://forum.minetest.net/vie​wtopic.php?pid=121940#p121940
21:48 zsoltisawesome lol, i believe hewas being sarcastic
21:48 john_minetest It is only flaming. No proper discussion and no content.
21:48 PilzAdam move it to offtopic then
21:48 GingerJesus lol, I just realized you can open a query with yourself on IRC...
21:48 john_minetest That would be best.
21:48 kaeza "it is annoying but it's smart."
21:48 PilzAdam but I dont see why we should delete topics that dont match what we think about the community
21:49 PilzAdam > it
21:49 kaeza you are a thing now!
21:49 PilzAdam yay
21:49 thexyz i think this deserves a quote >Can somebody delete the "mt sucks" thread? >which one?
21:50 zsoltisawesome lol
21:50 GingerJesus lol @thexyz
21:51 PilzAdam lold @@
21:51 PilzAdam (i.e. lold at the @ sign)
21:51 Pilcrow lol
21:51 PilzAdam this isnt twitter
21:51 zsoltisawesome Pilcrow: twitter mush
21:51 zsoltisawesome *much
21:51 Pilcrow I don't even use twitter, isn't that sad...?  :P
21:51 zsoltisawesome lol
21:52 zsoltisawesome #what
21:52 zsoltisawesome lol
21:52 john_minetest Pilcrow: I neither use twitter nor facebook, google+ and all that other shit.
21:52 PilzAdam twitter is a game, the more hashtags you get in your post the better
21:52 PilzAdam john_minetest, ++
21:52 Pilcrow no one uses google+
21:53 zsoltisawesome i do
21:53 zsoltisawesome XD
21:53 zsoltisawesome i guess im no one
21:53 zsoltisawesome :#
21:53 zsoltisawesome *:3
21:53 john_minetest @PilzAdam, #no, #this #hashtag #thing #is #pure #fantasy . #nobody #on #twitter #uses #them .
21:53 Pilcrow lol
21:53 john_minetest #lol
21:54 zsoltisawesome #lol#lol
21:54 Pilcrow does anybody still call the # symbol a 'pound sign'?
21:54 PilzAdam retweet: <john_minetest> @PilzAdam, #no, #this #hashtag #thing #is #pure #fantasy . #nobody #on #twitter #uses #them .
21:54 zsoltisawesome yes
21:54 zsoltisawesome I WILL # YOU
21:54 Pilcrow lol
21:54 Pilcrow always hated the term 'hashtag'
21:54 Taoki VanessaE: Does your server use the new media fetching code? A GIT commit seems to state that media fetching is improved. Wanted to see if I notice any difference
21:55 john_minetest Pilcrow: I call # "hash" or "include sign"
21:55 Taoki It talks about the client, but I assume server is affected too
21:55 PilzAdam in germany its called doppelkreuz (double cross)
21:55 Taoki To support the changes
21:55 zsoltisawesome could be read as: I WILL HASHTAG YOU or I WILL POUND YOU
21:56 john_minetest #pound #hashtag #reading #iwill
21:56 Jordach £ is the pound sign you farkin returds
21:56 zsoltisawesome latter is proper, first is funnier
21:56 Taoki VanessaE: Also, something is slowing your server down badly. The world isn't even loading any more after I log in, just the chunk in that area. It takes over a minute for the next chunk to load
21:56 PilzAdam Taoki, isnt that normal on VanessaE's server(s)?
21:56 john_minetest VanessaE: I experienced the same thing.
21:56 zsoltisawesome Taoki: PM much?
21:57 zsoltisawesome john_minetest: PM much?
21:57 Taoki PilzAdam: She does have a lot of mods. Still, they shouldn't be that slow. If they are something is wrong with one
21:57 zsoltisawesome just saying...
21:57 Taoki zsoltisawesome: Why you ask?
21:57 * Jordach thinks Lua got stuck in a loop
21:57 john_minetest zsoltisawesome: Wut?
21:58 * zsoltisawesome thinks that Jordach should be put in a loop
21:58 Jordach zsoltisawesome, try moving your conscience into 2gb of ram
21:58 kaeza hashtags? but they are channels!
21:59 kaeza /join #yolo
21:59 * john_minetest thinks that zsoltisawesome should paint a moebius band red on the one side and green on the other one.
21:59 john_minetest '/join ##adventuregames
21:59 Jordach john_minetest, i fucking hate those
21:59 Pilcrow Jordach, I always thought # is the symbol for 'pound' as a unit of weight. not money. that's obviously £...
21:59 * zsoltisawesome is not an American
21:59 kaeza >fucking
21:59 john_minetest Jordach: Those are EPIC
21:59 Jordach moebius bands are bullshit
21:59 * zsoltisawesome knows about the Moebius band
22:00 zsoltisawesome they work
22:00 PilzAdam Pilcrow, weight is measured in kg
22:00 * Jordach drops the bass on sfan5
22:00 john_minetest Jordach: They are very useful. Imagine you got a typewriter. You don't have to reverse the print tape in it! It reverses itself because it is MOEBIUS!!!
22:00 PilzAdam why would you even think about using a unit that isnt a base 10 variant of SI?
22:01 john_minetest SI is the future.
22:01 Jordach Sieverts
22:01 zsoltisawesome SIlly
22:01 Jordach there's the future ;)
22:01 john_minetest Tests are the future.
22:01 * Jordach prefers SI Units
22:01 Jordach i hate the pounds and ounces systems
22:01 * zsoltisawesome prefers orange juice
22:01 john_minetest ***EVERYBODY*** give me now your experimental minetest branches. I want to test something.
22:01 Jordach but i oddly understand Miles Per Hour
22:02 PilzAdam its not a matter of preference, its a matter of sanity
22:02 Pilcrow PilzAdam: kg is more sensible, yes, but not so common over here...  ;)
22:02 john_minetest Kilograms are everywhere.
22:02 Taoki Also: Does anyone know why if I compile Minetest with Irrlicht 1.8, the 3D viewport shrinks to the bottom-left area of the screen? I need to resize the window to get rid of that and have it fill the window again.
22:02 john_minetest And grams
22:02 zsoltisawesome john_minetest: #why
22:02 Taoki Only with 1.8, doesn't happen with Irrlicht 1.7
22:02 Taoki And this existed for many months, over an year I believe
22:03 john_minetest zsoltisawesome: Boredom
22:03 zsoltisawesome sadly i dont have one of those XD
22:03 zsoltisawesome us|0gb: why are you sitting there like a plump peach?
22:04 us|0gb Hmm? I'm doing homework, It's easier if I'm sitting.
22:05 Pilcrow john_minetest: not really. elevator weight limits are never posted in kg here, nor are trailer limits if you're a trucker like my dad...
22:05 us|0gb I also have an external hard drive connected, it might fall out if I stand.
22:05 kaeza john_minetest, player_setfov
22:05 PilzAdam Pilcrow, define "here"
22:05 john_minetest Pilcrow: It is KG here or tons
22:05 PilzAdam us|0gb, what homework?
22:05 Pilcrow Wisconsin, USA.
22:06 john_minetest Pilcrow: All of germany
22:06 us|0gb PilzAdam: Several things, but the one I'm working on now is a resume cover letter.
22:06 kaeza john_minetest, https://github.com/kaeza/mt-firearms/blob/m​aster/firearmslib/util/player_setfov.patch
22:06 zsoltisawesome PilzAdam: us|0gb: probably math
22:06 zsoltisawesome lol
22:07 us|0gb zsoltisawesome: I'd be done if this was math. I do have a calculator.
22:07 zsoltisawesome Taoki: NOBODY CARES
22:07 zsoltisawesome us|0gb: LOL
22:07 Taoki zsoltisawesome: huh?
22:07 Taoki About what?
22:07 zsoltisawesome Taoki
22:07 zsoltisawesome Also: Does anyone know why if I compile Minetest with Irrlicht 1.8, the 3D viewport shrinks to the bottom-left area of the screen? I need to resize the window to get rid of that and have it fill the window again.
22:07 john_minetest kaeza: how to apply a patch and how to use that one?
22:08 john_minetest I want a simple git clone and make, no patching around
22:08 kahrl what kind of calculator does math homework?
22:08 Taoki zsoltisawesome: It's a bug. People should care. Though it's not urgent otherwise
22:08 kaeza john_minetest, git am player_setfov.patch
22:08 zsoltisawesome a trig calculator?
22:08 PilzAdam john_minetest, git apply mypatch.patch
22:08 * Jordach notices the german to the rest of the world ratio in the minetest community is too damn high
22:09 PilzAdam Jordach, it tends against 1
22:09 john_minetest Why is that patch not upsteam yet?
22:09 john_minetest It seems to be very useful.
22:09 * Jordach is considering something
22:09 kahrl the math homework we do around here is of the kind "prove that the function blah is in C^\infty but not in the sobolev space H^1"
22:09 kaeza john_minetest, I've asked around in #-dev, but nobody responded
22:09 kahrl I'd love a calculator that can do that :D
22:09 * zsoltisawesome thinks that Minetest is a pain in the butt to use with no textures
22:10 kaeza well, sapier said he had no comments on that one
22:10 splash_ joined #minetest
22:10 kahrl err s/C^\infty/C^0
22:10 zsoltisawesome whats C? XD
22:10 john_minetest kaeza: in #-dev nobody responds and nobody pulls anything.
22:10 thexyz meanwhile buildcraft has got over 50k installs
22:11 PilzAdam zsoltisawesome, complex numbers I guess
22:11 zsoltisawesome the water molicules in the sea?
22:11 kahrl zsoltisawesome: the space of continuous function
22:11 Jordach anyways, i'm going to create a massive texture atlas so that making textured blocks in blender is piss easy
22:11 kahrl functions*
22:11 thexyz waiting for 1e6+
22:11 zsoltisawesome wahts buildcraft
22:11 thexyz shit shit shit
22:12 zsoltisawesome does anyone have a GPL'd texture pack
22:12 * sfan5 puts a kitten on Jordach's head
22:12 Jordach meow
22:12 Jordach sfan5, seen the PM yet?
22:12 * zsoltisawesome shoots the kitten with a shotgun
22:12 zsoltisawesome *flutteryay*
22:12 Jordach -!- System: Ark Shielding at 26%
22:13 zsoltisawesome LOL
22:13 * sfan5 puts Derpy Hooves on Jordach's head
22:13 Jordach Jordach:dentonate_reactor()
22:13 * zsoltisawesome takes Derpy Hooves and puts it on his head
22:13 PilzAdam zsoltisawesome, *brohoof*
22:14 * Pilcrow shoots Derpy Hooves with a shotgun
22:14 us|0gb kahrl: It depends on what type of math homework.
22:14 * zsoltisawesome defends
22:14 Pilcrow lol
22:14 * Pilcrow hates mlp
22:14 * zsoltisawesome throws a Parasprite at Pilcrow
22:15 * zsoltisawesome hates Haters
22:15 Taoki Ponies FTW
22:15 zsoltisawesome wiat wait wait
22:15 cisoun joined #minetest
22:15 zsoltisawesome +1
22:16 zsoltisawesome if i hate haters, arent I a hater?
22:16 zsoltisawesome which would mean that i hate myself, which i dont
22:16 Jordach by that logic politicians are haters ;)
22:16 * Pilcrow wonders why we are role-playing instead of carrying a normal conversation...
22:16 * Taoki reaaaaally needs to make a MLP game for Minetest. And will :) Someday...
22:16 zsoltisawesome ooooooh
22:16 zsoltisawesome I'll help
22:16 zsoltisawesome XD
22:17 * zsoltisawesome thinks Jordach is 100% correct
22:17 zsoltisawesome XD
22:18 * zsoltisawesome assult cake anyone?
22:18 Pilcrow zsoltisawesome: Schrödinger's hatred. you both hate and do not hate yourself.
22:18 zsoltisawesome LOL
22:18 zsoltisawesome lol
22:19 * zsoltisawesome thinks he should throw an assault cake at Pilcrow
22:19 Pilcrow also, the following statement is the truth: the previous statement is a lie.
22:20 zsoltisawesome LOL
22:20 zsoltisawesome get it right
22:20 zsoltisawesome XD
22:20 PilzAdam Pilcrow, be careful or youll break MinetestBot
22:20 * kaeza hands PilzAdam an apostrophe
22:21 zsoltisawesome !rainbow SPAWWWWWRRRRCLES!!!!!
22:21 MinetestBot S2PA9WWW9WWR9RRR6C2L7E9S!!3!4!9!
22:21 * PilzAdam eats it
22:21 * zsoltisawesome eats it first
22:21 Pilcrow PilzAdam: daww, you mean MinetestBot can't handle a paradox yet?  :P
22:22 zsoltisawesome can someone make a texture that says nil?
22:22 zsoltisawesome nm
22:23 john_minetest !rainbow -
22:23 MinetestBot -
22:23 Pilcrow zsoltisawesome: use paint?  :P
22:23 zsoltisawesome umm
22:23 zsoltisawesome paint is stupic and cant type that small and uses antialiasing
22:23 xiong Does anyone here want to talk about the running of a Minetest world? I don't mean the technical details but the social decisions.
22:24 PilzAdam xiong, I guess if you start somebody will join the discussion
22:24 thexyz kids.
22:25 xiong PilzAdam, I'm not trying to start a fight. The last time I talked about that topic with you, you became extremely upset.
22:26 PilzAdam oh, you are the one who wants players to pay for servers?
22:26 thexyz what do you mean by "social decisions"?
22:26 xiong Nor is it clear to me that this is on-topic for this channel, which is rather devoted to technical matters.
22:26 PilzAdam sorry, didnt remember you
22:26 zsoltisawesome hmm, what mods should i remove from moontest....
22:27 zsoltisawesome oooooh i know
22:27 xiong thexyz, that's the first question. What *do* we mean by social decisions? What social decisions should we consider?
22:27 zsoltisawesome farming!
22:27 thexyz xiong: well, you wanted to talk about it
22:27 thexyz so I thought you already know what you're going to talk about
22:27 xiong Indeed. I spend a lot of time thinking about it. I'd like to know what others think. Talking to myself is boring and does not illuminate.
22:28 thexyz to me it feels that the community is too young
22:28 xiong I deny the existence of a single community.
22:28 thexyz forums and most public servers
22:28 thexyz people there are, what, 12?
22:28 thexyz just judging by those google play comments
22:29 Miner_48er joined #minetest
22:29 zsoltisawesome damn, what is the character.x under?
22:29 thexyz it seems that minecraft-like games attract audience like this
22:29 PilzAdam zsoltisawesome, cc by-sa
22:29 xiong As I say, it's not clear to me that this topic is on-topic for this channel; it's the opposite of a technical discussion. It *is* on topic for #athens. I'm happy to talk here, of course, but if anyone raises an objection, we'll talk elsewhere.
22:29 thexyz this is not a technical channel, all minetest-related discussions are welcome here
22:29 zsoltisawesome PilzAdam: Damn you
22:30 xiong I'm in my 50's, thexyz. How old are you -- in rough terms?
22:30 Pilcrow zsoltisawesome: so do you still need a 'nil' texture?
22:30 zsoltisawesome no
22:30 zsoltisawesome it is to much of a hastle
22:30 thexyz xiong: ~2/5
22:31 xiong You're mocking me. Why?
22:31 thexyz xiong: I do? I didn't want to offend, sorry
22:31 xiong On teh internets, nobody knows you're a dog. You raised the issue of age.
22:31 xiong If you are five years old then I am a striped tiger.
22:32 Pilcrow zsoltisawesome: daww, ok then. I was going to throw one together for ya~
22:32 PilzAdam I guess he meant 2/5 * your age
22:32 thexyz xiong: ~2/5 of your age; anyway what I was talking about is not the physical age and you know it
22:32 thexyz (or not)
22:32 zsoltisawesome you could help me with some real textures though
22:32 xiong Well no, sorry, I don't. We'll say you're in your 20s. When I was in my 20s, I thought hard about social issues.
22:32 zsoltisawesome lol
22:33 xiong If my opinions at that age were aired now, I'd have to apologize for them. But that's a side issue.
22:33 thexyz alright then
22:33 PandemoniuM joined #minetest
22:34 thexyz I guess we're slowly becoming personal or what?
22:34 xiong No, not at all. You mentioned age, I followed.
22:34 xiong My key postulate is that when we play in a simulated world we are nonetheless real human beings. We form a society in that world. I think we don't talk much about what that means.
22:35 xiong We make assumptions without discussing them and then argue about propositions built on those undiscussed assumptions.
22:35 thexyz and my point is that it's impossible to build a healthy community with lots of immature people
22:35 xiong Well, that may be true.
22:36 xiong I'm not ready to dismiss you, though, as an immature person incapable of building a community.
22:36 PandemoniuM Ok, so on this topic. Pirates vs Skeletons in an intergalactic space battle. who would win? go.
22:37 Pilcrow lol PandemoniuM
22:37 xiong Let's say that the norm for human society over the past million years or so has been a nomadic, uncivilized existence. Then all civilization is exceptional and the product of the few, not of the many.
22:37 PandemoniuM :]
22:37 john_minetest Good community means that everybody contributes in his/her way to achieve a goal.
22:37 xiong Good point, John.
22:38 PilzAdam you cant "build" a community, you can just let it grow
22:38 xiong Who decides what goal, or who may contribute, or what constitutes a contribution and not an annoyance?
22:38 thexyz after reading the comments http://i.imgur.com/dmmqqor.png I don't feel like coding for those people
22:38 PandemoniuM the top portion of the community, xiong
22:38 PandemoniuM founders, key contributers, etc
22:39 xiong Very well -- the elite.
22:39 PandemoniuM people of importance that have gained their status in the community by contributions, coding or even culture
22:39 PandemoniuM no, the elite is not what im saying
22:39 PandemoniuM because you cant just become elite
22:39 xiong Nobody codes in a Minetest world. You play blocks.
22:39 zsoltisawesome you play them? like guitars?
22:39 zsoltisawesome lol
22:39 PandemoniuM guess we are talking about to diff things, because im a developer.
22:39 thexyz coding minetest is the next level of playing the game
22:40 xiong Right. This discussion has nothing to do with developing.
22:40 PandemoniuM ffs *two
22:40 john_minetest xiong: It is not the next level, it is another layer.
22:40 xiong Sorry, not to me, John.
22:40 PandemoniuM yep, i just got off work and walked into this mess
22:40 xiong I consider a given Minetest world, at this level of discussion, to be independent, a bubble, if you will.
22:40 PandemoniuM shun me from the community for my insolence :]
22:41 xiong Whoever controls access to the server has absolute power to create and destroy the world.
22:41 john_minetest There is choice.
22:41 xiong No no, not at all, PandemoniuM.
22:41 john_minetest There are so many servers.
22:41 xiong Absolutely. Vote with your feet.
22:41 xiong Nevertheless, it's more or less impossible for anyone to exert power over a servop.
22:41 * john_minetest imagines how it would look like when people would vote with their feet in parlament.
22:42 PandemoniuM servop is god essentially
22:42 PandemoniuM notice the lower case g :]
22:42 xiong Well, you got to that conclusion a lot faster than I did. Took me some time.
22:42 john_minetest Server ops have no chance against devs.
22:42 zsoltisawesome lol
22:42 zsoltisawesome indeed
22:43 PandemoniuM but it would be great if servers operated 'agnostically'
22:43 xiong I have been describing the common situation of a single servop as despotism or monarchy: a political concept, not a religious one. But I now think you are more correct.
22:43 PandemoniuM servops were on the same level as any other player, and status/power is gained from town/city development
22:43 john_minetest There was nearly a serious fork because one server op wanted a feature and everything was going slowly.
22:43 PilzAdam I agree that developing is the next level of playing the game
22:43 xiong The servop is the local god; if you have multiple servops, you have gods.
22:43 PandemoniuM but there shouldnt be gods, imho
22:44 PandemoniuM except for griefers, etc. taking out the trash
22:44 thexyz they have absolute power; the way they could use it is another question
22:44 xiong Ah. Very interesting point. And I'll agree to that, too. If I had a choice, I would prefer to live in a world without gods.
22:44 xiong However -- no matter what we think is true of Reality -- it's very clear that no Minetest world is ever going to be created without a local god doing so.
22:44 john_minetest Griefers are over server ops. If a griefer decides to do something, nobody can beat them.
22:45 zsoltisawesome PilzAdam: https://www.filepicker.io/ap​i/file/BRI5L5wQQKe1aHjSCpCX happy?
22:45 xiong I object strenuously to the term "griefer"; it begs not one but many questions.
22:45 PandemoniuM whys that. one who causes grief by ruining immersion = griefer
22:46 xiong You just suggested roles for the local god, PandemoniuM; and it's this that I'm questioning. What should the local god do?
22:46 PilzAdam xiong, what experience do you have in "building" a community?
22:46 PandemoniuM local god listens to prayers :D
22:46 xiong I think you and I both just said that we'd prefer not to have a god. Isn't the next best thing a god who does nothing?
22:46 PandemoniuM he is everywhere at any given time so TP and Invis, never revealed
22:46 john_minetest xiong: NO.
22:47 PandemoniuM if someone on the server became a hitler, and was systematically farming and killing other players, i would want the god to smite them and ban them
22:47 john_minetest xiong: In my opinion, if there is somebody with the ultimate power, he should use it for the good instead of doing nothing.
22:47 xiong PilzAdam, I just said I don't want to fight; I mean that. I understand that you don't like the whole idea. I have offered to take the discussion elsewhere.
22:47 PandemoniuM but i wouldnt want him showering diamonds onto random people
22:47 john_minetest I was once on a server where the op was never there. It was hell.
22:47 xiong Why, John? I'd like to know.
22:47 PilzAdam xiong, this wasnt meant as an "attack" against you, Im really curious
22:48 PandemoniuM i have also been the griefer on those very servers john lol
22:48 xiong In a world where nobody knows you're a dog, you want me to show you my credentials? I have labored in the vineyards. I don't say I did well. I have a lot of experience in petty club-size politics.
22:49 PandemoniuM there are people who play the game to interact, build in-game relationships, and accomplish things together to create immersion, and then theres the kids who only try to anger/piss off others to ruin immersion... then its just a hunk of pixels.
22:50 xiong PandemoniuM, what would you say if I told you that I envision a server on which it would not be possible for anyone to call you, or anyone else, a "griefer"? Yet, one in which players who desired it could build in security.
22:50 PilzAdam xiong, what might be a challenge is to do the step from theory to practice; i.e. an actual community growing in the way you imagine
22:51 xiong It's not a merely theoretical discussion, PA. The testing server has already been up and running.
22:51 PandemoniuM if i came over and blew up your building that you spent a week on, would you be mad? would i be griefing you?
22:51 PandemoniuM or is that the game
22:51 PandemoniuM you kick rocks and start over, only to waste more time until you finally become a griefer
22:51 xiong Well, that's the question. What is the right way to view that? I build, you destroy. Why is that a problem? I don't say it's not; I say, in what way?
22:51 PilzAdam xiong, if you have an idea of how the community should look like, how do you want to get the players act accordingly?
22:51 xiong Should the god destroy you?
22:51 PandemoniuM who are you to censor my creation?
22:52 PandemoniuM if my neighbor wrongs me, i would pray to god that he gets smited
22:52 xiong That's the discussion, PA. Is it the god's responsibility to decide what is and is not correct action?
22:52 PandemoniuM then boom... comet flies across the sky
22:52 xiong Ah, but did we not recently agree that we'd prefer *not* to have gods?
22:53 PandemoniuM gods =/= players
22:53 xiong That's the crux of my thinking right now. Should gods meddle in the affairs of men? In Reality, I do not hesitate to say NO.
22:53 xiong I'm wondering why this should not carry over to Minetest.
22:53 thexyz in reality we don't need gods, in minetest we do
22:53 xiong Why?
22:53 PandemoniuM but as a god, it depends on why i created this world
22:53 PandemoniuM if i was a war god, then chaos rules
22:53 thexyz because of how the game is made: it's easier to destroy than to build
22:53 PandemoniuM if i was an animal god, hunting animals would not be allowed
22:53 PandemoniuM etc
22:54 PilzAdam xiong, yes, the god has to set "rules" to form the basic structures of the community
22:54 xiong Ah. But cannot the world be built in another way, then, to make destruction more difficult? By the way, I'm not convinced you're right about this.
22:54 xiong I'm not convinced of that, PA.
22:54 PilzAdam nobody else has enough "power" over the players to do that, and without it the community wouldnt become what you want
22:54 thexyz in the reality people control themselves
22:54 xiong Then why not in the game?
22:55 PandemoniuM because its not real life, i cant go to jail for blowing up your car
22:55 thexyz because it's a game
22:55 thexyz and that
22:55 PandemoniuM i can laugh about it and call you a fag, like the typical griefer
22:55 xiong I don't see how that matters.
22:55 PilzAdam people dont feel responsible for their actions in games
22:55 PandemoniuM thats grief-speak btw
22:55 thexyz and this
22:55 thexyz no responsibility
22:56 xiong Okay. I'm not sure that most people are particularly responsible in Real Life, either. That's why we have cops.
22:56 PandemoniuM LOL GTA. case and point
22:56 PilzAdam in real life people are _a lot_ more responsible
22:56 PilzAdam if they wouldnt be, they would simply die
22:56 PilzAdam and dying is against the human nature
22:56 PilzAdam while "dying" in games isnt that much of a deal
22:57 xiong May I mention one example, without going into detail or pretending it's a total solution? On several worlds, now, including the recent testing server, I moved about a kilometer or two from primary spawn and built large establishments. I have been subjected to virtually no interference there.
22:57 PandemoniuM i will say this. my perfect game is an allianced based game.. players form towns, towns form alliances, and alliances coordinate attacks. These attacks would allow others to pillage and destory your town block by block, but when the fight is over, your town springs back to its previous state
22:57 PandemoniuM you have your creative side and your 'griefer' side fulfilled
22:58 PilzAdam xiong, yes, thats a good system, but you could as well just play alone if you dont meet other players
22:58 PandemoniuM yep
22:58 PandemoniuM mercenaries
22:58 thexyz you can't have a self-regulating minetest world without having a lot of players online; and you can't have a lot of players online for obvious reasons
22:58 xiong What stops three or seven of us from all building five km from spawn?
22:58 PilzAdam in real life people have something that they can / have to protect, in games they dont have this
22:59 xiong Of course, PA.
22:59 xiong What stops three or seven of us from all building five km from spawn?
22:59 thexyz comparing games to real life is pointless anyway
22:59 PandemoniuM regulating distance between town monuments aka center blocks of a town
22:59 PilzAdam so in games they dont fear the consequences of their actions
22:59 xiong I understand perfectly that we must accept a constant stream of suicide bombers.
22:59 PandemoniuM yes
23:00 xiong What stops three or seven of us from all building five km from spawn?
23:00 PandemoniuM server regulating distance between towns
23:00 thexyz nothing, do that
23:00 xiong We have community; we're not alone. We're remote from the stream of suicide bombers. Why do we require a god to smite them?
23:00 xiong Let them accumulate around the spawn and kill each other, if they like.
23:01 PilzAdam but on the other hand you have to make sure that the "start" for new players, that would actually turn out to be "good for the community", isnt too difficult
23:01 thexyz that's not why they're griefing
23:01 xiong What's "difficult", PA?
23:01 thexyz they don't want to kill or to destroy your building, they want to see your reaction
23:01 PilzAdam i.e. if everyone had to walk 10 km to get to the community's main city then nobody would want to join it
23:01 PandemoniuM nailed it
23:02 PilzAdam s/i.e./e.g./
23:02 xiong I did say I object to the term "griefer" or "grief" used as a verb. It makes it hard to discuss the actions and people in detail.
23:02 PandemoniuM PA, i was figuring you could send invites to players, or give a person and individualized code so when they join the server, it would TP them 1 time to your town to formally be invited to it
23:03 thexyz I'm not a psychologist so I cannot discuss people, sorry
23:03 xiong Does everyone see that the previous two objections are opposed? thexyz says that the intent of some people is to upset others. PA says people will never walk so far to get to your safe community.
23:04 thexyz xiong: PA was talking about ordinary players
23:04 xiong Well. Please do remember I said, this is not a total solution.
23:04 xiong Do you see the point, though?
23:04 thexyz and I don't see a point in building a safe community on a server, you can just make your local server and play on it then
23:04 zsoltisawesome hey all check out http://tinyurl.com/moontest !
23:05 thexyz s/safe/isolated/
23:05 xiong Isolated from what?
23:05 thexyz from other people playing on that server
23:05 PandemoniuM there should be ain invitation system to gain build permissions to regions
23:05 zsoltisawesome yes
23:05 xiong I'm challenging the basic assumption: that all the fun stuff happens within 300 m of primary spawn.
23:06 xiong What if interesting people just hiked out? If the locals don't like the invaders, they can kill them.
23:06 PilzAdam PandemoniuM, I personally dislike servers where I cant instantly build on
23:06 PilzAdam it makes it too hard to "join" the server
23:06 xiong The cost of killing an invader is much, much less than the cost of hiking out to vandalize again.
23:06 PandemoniuM if i join a new server, i hike out and create my own town
23:07 PilzAdam xiong, the problem is that there arent always people to "defend" their buildings
23:07 xiong Clearly, residents should be able to return to a local spawn point. Residents, not just anyone who joins the server.
23:07 xiong Why not, PA?
23:07 xiong How much defense is required?
23:07 PandemoniuM i also created a mod on my public server where i have created a cannon turret and mg turret
23:07 xiong Must every single block be locked?
23:07 PandemoniuM they also autofire at Helicopters/Starships when unmanned
23:08 PilzAdam well, if someone starts to vandalise then someone else has to be there to kill him
23:08 xiong I tell you: I have built nearer to spawn than 3 km and had no trouble there to speak of.
23:08 PandemoniuM im going for alliances/npcs as mercs and soldiers, etc
23:08 PandemoniuM and god help a new player who wanders 100 blocks within my town because they will be shot on sight by my cannons :D
23:08 PilzAdam PandemoniuM, NPC soldiers? what hinders me from "protecting" the whole map with my soldiers?
23:09 xiong You *assume* that if I am not there around the clock, my buildings will be destroyed, my farms looted. I say from experience, no.
23:09 PandemoniuM town radius
23:09 PilzAdam who defines what a town is?
23:09 PandemoniuM so you join a server, you have a monument block
23:09 PandemoniuM you hike out, set that sucker down, and it clears out a 64 block diameter
23:09 PandemoniuM as you invite more players, diameter grows, etc
23:09 xiong Why is that necessary?
23:10 PandemoniuM to prevent people from placing cannon turrets and mg turrets all over the map
23:10 PilzAdam PandemoniuM, so you are not allowed to build as much as you want as a "one-man-town"?
23:10 PandemoniuM if im laying siege to someone, i might take a 'fort' block with me and it would allow me to do that
23:10 xiong I don't really like the idea of machine gun nests.
23:10 PandemoniuM PA, there needs to be ways to increase size of towns too
23:10 PilzAdam some people build more, some less, but all should have the same right to protect all of their buildings
23:10 xiong I think control of spawn points is the entire issue, really.
23:11 zsoltisawesome if nobod yis going to talk about anything useful, im out
23:11 PilzAdam all the current protection systems require a god that sets them
23:11 PilzAdam so you have to beg the god to get land
23:11 PandemoniuM thats dumb!
23:12 xiong Let's say we start with that... obelisk. I place an obelisk; it's mine. I can die or just get bored wherever I am and choose to respawn at my obelisk.
23:12 PandemoniuM if you have a monument block and build your initial area with it, you can regulate the space in between other towns
23:12 PilzAdam now the challenge is to design a protection system that doesnt need a god but also doesnt allow one player to block the whole map
23:12 xiong Now another fellow wanders in and we get to talking; we decide to settle together. I grant him access to the obelisk. Now it's not mine anymore; it's ours.
23:13 PandemoniuM im taking what i made on my Manic Digger server and bringing it over here, but im concerned about lag issues
23:13 PilzAdam while being flexible enough to not annoy massive builders
23:13 xiong I don't protect any land at all with the obelisk. It just creates a spawn point.
23:13 PandemoniuM well yeah PA thats a whole issue in itself
23:14 PandemoniuM my public server is going in a specific direction, so there arent so much mass-builders
23:14 PilzAdam xiong, a far away spawnpoint is "prorection" in some way
23:14 PandemoniuM as there are town builders and fighting
23:14 xiong Exactly, PA. SoftSecurity.
23:14 PandemoniuM so xiong, if i came across your obelisk, i would carve space out beneath it and lay down lava for you
23:15 PandemoniuM and that would be ok in your server right?
23:15 xiong First you have to get there, though.
23:15 PilzAdam if you want security you have to go far away, but then nobody will be able to join you (since you are so far away), and you basically build on your own
23:15 PandemoniuM in the off chance i did
23:15 PilzAdam so there is no need to play on a server anymore
23:15 PandemoniuM if people formed towns there would be discovery involved. people would travel around just to map things out
23:15 xiong I don't see how you come to both conclusions. Either the point is so far away that nobody will come; or it is not.
23:16 xiong Exactly, PM!
23:16 xiong Is that bad?
23:16 PandemoniuM to each their own
23:17 PandemoniuM each server is its own world right?
23:17 PandemoniuM or parallel reality even
23:17 xiong That's where we started the discussion.
23:17 PandemoniuM :D
23:17 PandemoniuM i feel so connected
23:17 PilzAdam xiong, you dont understand the problem I see here?
23:18 xiong So my first question, which does not seem to be answered, is: Why is it important for the local god to smite people who annoy others?
23:18 xiong No, PA, I don't.
23:18 xiong In Orby-land, formerly Wazu, I have seen several players hike out to the very edge of the map. This is for no long term purpose.
23:18 zsoltisawesome stop, maybe today?
23:19 PilzAdam if you want to build something you have 2 options: 1) build far away from the spawn 2) build near the spawn
23:19 john_minetest xiong: The local god smites people who annoy other people.
23:19 xiong I have never felt it a burden to hike a kilometer or two from spawn and, indeed, it's my routine practice in any server join for the first time.
23:20 kaeza xiong, I'll reverse the question: why should people be annoyed by some total stranger coming to destroy their buildings?
23:20 xiong I don't see why anyone that I might want to have as neighbors cannot also hike out so far.
23:20 PilzAdam if you choose 1) then nobody will come to destroy your buildings, but also nobody will come to join your town
23:20 xiong You say that, PA; but why is it true?
23:20 PandemoniuM there should be public and private towns
23:21 PilzAdam well, if its that hard to join the community on a server then new players will just move to other servers where its easier
23:21 PandemoniuM public towns can 'vote' to ban people
23:21 xiong Do you think I'm so peculiar, that I walk from spawn before I start to build? Nobody else does this?
23:21 kaeza some players just want to play, they don't want to be burdened with the task of protecting their homes
23:21 PandemoniuM i run from spawn
23:22 PilzAdam xiong, actually yes, I do
23:22 xiong What is "that hard" about walking a mile or two, even without roads, let alone 'fly'?
23:22 meldrian joined #minetest
23:22 PilzAdam judging from what I have seen on servers
23:22 PilzAdam most buildings are arround spawn
23:22 PandemoniuM and i hate that
23:22 PandemoniuM i hate joining and seeing 'this block is protected'
23:22 PandemoniuM for miles
23:22 xiong I will say that in BR-land I have seen a particular example of a community built very far from primary spawn. It's a couple klicks out. It's called 'Bohemia'.
23:22 john_minetest I love building around the spawn. I want that my houses are seen. That my hard work is recognized.
23:23 PilzAdam you have to make your world easy to join for normal players, but hard to destroy for "griefers"
23:23 xiong Again, why?
23:23 jojoa1997 joined #minetest
23:23 PandemoniuM joining a server should have options like a list of public towns, the option to 'spit me out somewhere on the map'
23:23 john_minetest No.
23:23 john_minetest Servers should have a spawn that is central.
23:23 xiong I do not understand why anyone feels a walk of a few klicks is an absolute barrier. It takes months to build a nice town; it takes half an hour to walk/swim/climb 5 km.
23:24 PilzAdam because if its hard to join the people simply wont join it, and the server will stay empty; and if the second thing isnt true then many "griefers" will join and destroy everything, the people who are there will leave then too
23:24 PilzAdam and in both cases there wouldnt be any community left
23:24 xiong John, do you understand that once you get out there, you can establish a local spawn, just for you and your buddies?
23:24 xiong You walk once; you're not required to walk again.
23:24 john_minetest xiong: PandemoniuM talked about making that at server join
23:25 PilzAdam I dont play longer than 30 minutes on a server; and I dont want to "waste" all this time on walking
23:25 xiong You're just repeating the assertion, PA. You're not backing it up. I've offered counterexamples.
23:25 john_minetest Also a local spawn 35 km away won't attract new players.
23:25 PilzAdam xiong, you assume that people will play a lot on the server
23:25 xiong No, I'm not assuming that.
23:25 john_minetest If you are _there_ it is no problem. If you are at spawn it takes you ages. New people won't walk that far.
23:25 PilzAdam while I try to see it through the eyes of a regular user joining the server
23:26 xiong Based on experience in other worlds, I see that players spend hundreds of hours digging and building.
23:26 PilzAdam <xiong> I do not understand why anyone feels a walk of a few klicks is an absolute barrier. It takes months to build a nice town; it takes half an hour to walk/swim/climb 5 km.
23:26 PandemoniuM everytime i join a server, and im running around some horribly huge town for a few minutes to the point where i cant easily get to an area to start building my OWN stuff in my OWN area away from everyone elses shit, i leave
23:26 xiong Well. True or false?
23:26 PilzAdam for a new user this half an hour is simply wasted time, he wont be willing to spend it
23:26 PilzAdam since the player doesnt even know if its worth it
23:26 xiong Well, if not, that's a good thing, yes?
23:26 john_minetest xiong: I was looking at people on servers a bit since I was moderator on one. People normally stay up to an hour but are mostly static somewhere. Building on one project.
23:27 PilzAdam PandemoniuM, why do you play on servers?
23:27 PandemoniuM to build towns with my friends
23:27 xiong The value of a person to a community is proportional to the time he is willing to invest in it.
23:27 PilzAdam PandemoniuM, so you dont want to join the community that is already on the server
23:28 PilzAdam +?
23:28 john_minetest I built an eco town near to the spawn at VE Survival.
23:28 PandemoniuM nope
23:28 PandemoniuM ive been a clan leader for many games my whole life
23:28 xiong http://meatballwiki.org/wiki/SoftSecurity
23:28 PandemoniuM im an orgnizer and leader imho
23:28 PandemoniuM the greatest thing in the WORLD is a virtual earth
23:28 PandemoniuM and to say everyone start here and walk outward is crazy
23:28 PilzAdam xiong, well, but why would people invest time if they dont see what the end-result is?
23:29 xiong How can anyone see that?
23:29 PilzAdam on servers where they spawn in the main city they can see where they gonna spend their next few hours
23:29 PandemoniuM why does earth have so many races and different cities?
23:29 xiong The result is in the future.
23:29 xiong By your thesis, nobody would ever build in a brand-new server. There's nothing there; why stick around?
23:29 PandemoniuM god didnt set our spawn point and say ok new humans, run from here to go start your own stuff
23:29 PilzAdam e.g. you walk an hour to a town and then you notice that its completly made out of nyancats (and you hate nyancats)
23:30 john_minetest xiong: When some guy joins my server and puts thousands of buckets of lava and water somewhere and floods my whole server, it will be difficult to forgive and forget. People doing that are trolls. They don't WANT to integrate. They think griefing is fun.
23:30 PilzAdam xiong, the server admin usually builds something before the server goes online
23:30 xiong Well, I didn't.
23:30 john_minetest xiong: I did. For 3 servers.
23:30 PandemoniuM ok. cool
23:31 PandemoniuM i didnt either
23:31 xiong I started a testing server with near-zero configuration, no mods except what's bundled in, and put it on the public list.
23:31 PilzAdam also, how do you know where all these towns are? how do you know where to walk?
23:31 proller ask Calinou about griefing, he spent hours and days to sestroy
23:31 john_minetest Having no spawn leaves a bad impression imo. Just like "I don't care what players do, here, have your world and do whatever you want.
23:31 john_minetest "
23:31 PandemoniuM it would be cool for 'roads' to be build between allied towns
23:32 xiong As I say, I walked out about a klick and a half and started building. After a day, another guy came out to the same area and started building. He built nice stuff, we got along.
23:32 PandemoniuM aka top y level block always red brick between the 2 towns
23:32 john_minetest PandemoniuM: roads mod?
23:32 VanessaE hi
23:32 PandemoniuM no, not flat john
23:32 PilzAdam xiong, but does this system scale?
23:32 PandemoniuM more like a 'Trails Mod
23:32 PilzAdam does it work for a whole server?
23:32 PandemoniuM in response to someone saying 'how do i know where to go
23:32 xiong I don't really think it's useful to ask that question, PA. I don't think it's useful to say "That cannot work" about anything.
23:33 PilzAdam or is it just a random thing that happend to you and that guy that will never happen again?
23:33 PandemoniuM coming cross this dirt road would be an indicator that it goes to somewhere
23:33 xiong The question is, What is desirable? Then we can talk about how to make it work.
23:33 PilzAdam xiong, now you are moving away from the practice into the theory, which isnt good IMO
23:33 xiong Um, no. I'm only discussing theory here.
23:34 PandemoniuM I have a real question, as a dev coming from a different project called Manic Digger... my 4gb MT pub is very laggy with more than 3-4 players.. is this consistant across all servers? Is this normal?
23:34 xiong One question, really: What is the proper role of the local god?
23:34 PilzAdam in theory: nothing but hosting the server
23:34 xiong "Proper", as in correct or desirable. What should the local god do?
23:34 VanessaE to kick the asses of vandals when they show up? ;)
23:34 xiong VE, I ask why.
23:35 xiong I challenge the assumption that a person bent solely on destruction either is guaranteed to cause it -- or must be prevented from doing so.
23:35 VanessaE well in my particular example, because people invest the time, sometimes the hard, actual money, to build their constructions in the game.
23:36 john_minetest VanessaE's servers are practically griefers-free. Very well-moderated. :)
23:37 xiong So my theory is that this is not necessary or even desirable.
23:37 PilzAdam xiong, hmmm.... I think its not useful to talk about the theory only; it doesnt help when it comes to actually setting up a server, so I guess Ill quit the discussion now
23:37 VanessaE (I refer of course to money used to buy hardware that is then used to improve one's gaming environment)
23:38 xiong On several worlds, I have built far from spawn and had virtually no trouble there. I don't see that heavy security measures, particularly outgame security, is necessary.
23:39 john_minetest On good-maintained server I built close to the spawn or at spawn and never had any griefer problems.
23:39 PilzAdam bye
23:39 xiong I don't think it's useful to debate whether SoftSecurity *can* work. The question is whether it should be done; then we can discuss how to make it work.
23:40 VanessaE xiong: celeron55 used to run a creative server early on.  it was shut down "due to a fuckton of griefing".
23:40 xiong Nobody seems willing to discuss the question of what's desirable. Why, John?
23:40 xiong VE, I object strongly to the term "griefing". I don't think it motivates clear thinking.
23:40 xiong Did players vandalize the whole map?
23:41 john_minetest xiong: Of course it would be great to have no griefer problems. But those people don't grief for a reason but because they are TROLLS. They won't listen to you.
23:41 VanessaE object all you like, that is the term we use.
23:41 PandemoniuM because these minecraft engine clones get not only their own brand of griefers, but Minecraft Fan-boys who are literally on a mission to ruin this game because they are 12 year old trolls
23:41 john_minetest xiong: Griefers once vandalized the whole map of globis server. It went down forever after that.
23:42 xiong Why is it so hard for me to be clear?
23:42 arsdragonfly_ joined #minetest
23:42 xiong I fully expect a constant stream of annoying people to come out of the spawn point. That's a given.
23:42 xiong No debate is required.
23:43 xiong I do desire to allow players to build without being greatly annoyed by the annoying people. That also is a given.
23:44 VanessaE then you have no choice but to have protection measures in place of some kind, even if it's a hair-trigger on the rollback recorder.
23:44 xiong I ask, plainly, why it is thought necessary to put hard obstacles in the way of the annoying people. By 'hard', I mean such things as land protection schemes and frequent intervention by people with super-player powers.
23:44 VanessaE I use rollback, no interact by default, and the areas mod.
23:44 xiong Again: Why?
23:44 VanessaE because if I don't, the world WILL be destroyed and it makes more work for ME and my legitimate players to repair it.
23:44 xiong Why is it *necessary*? Why is no other scheme within the world of discussion?
23:44 VanessaE that's why.
23:45 kaeza xiong, because it's our server, our domain, our universe; we are deities, we need no excuses
23:45 xiong I don't see it really moves anything forward to say, flatly: This *will* happen, no matter what.
23:46 xiong If we're all-powerful, kaeza; then why can't we figure out alternatives?
23:46 VanessaE nearly any other server operator will tell you the same thing - we already do enough work to keep the fucking server running, and in some cases we pay money to keep it online.  That's enough.  To expect us to do more than we already do is unfair, imho.
23:46 xiong I'd rather do less, VE.
23:46 VanessaE so would I
23:46 kaeza xiong, then less theory more practice
23:46 VanessaE but we can't because...human nature.
23:46 john_minetest xiong: People build around the spawn. This is the best place. Look at this; People just build there: http://digitalaudioconcepts.com/vanessa/hob​bies/minetest/worldmaps/Creative_World.png
23:46 xiong Did anyone actually read this link: http://meatballwiki.org/wiki/SoftSecurity
23:46 VanessaE 12 year old trolls, as you call them, are like cats.
23:47 VanessaE try herding them.
23:47 VanessaE you will fail.  miserably.
23:47 VanessaE no offense to the well-behaved contingent here.
23:47 PandemoniuM it would be really cool to have this public town with signs all over it that said "Please do not destory town"
23:47 xiong So you will shut off all discussion by saying: That won't work; so no point talking about it.
23:47 PandemoniuM and ban anyone who sets off tnt, etc in that region
23:48 PandemoniuM so that what comes OUT of the public dummy town are players who are not 12 year old minecraft nerds
23:48 VanessaE xiong: no, I believe I said, quite clearly, that you will fail, not that a particular method will or will not work.
23:48 VanessaE in fact I even said, and I quote, "try".
23:48 xiong Well then. Can we move on from that assertion? I don't think it's useful.
23:48 VanessaE that was your invitation to make an attempt rather than conjecture.
23:48 xiong I came here to ask the question of what's desirable.
23:49 john_minetest xiong: It has been tested. People tried running servers without admins doing much. Griefers came. Server died.
23:49 VanessaE what is desirable is actions that will keep griefers from even bothering in the first place.
23:49 VanessaE what would make Minetest (and other sandbox games) cease to be an inviting target?
23:49 xiong John, the word "griefer" does not move the discussion. Who did what and why was that a problem?
23:49 PandemoniuM i feel like sometimes servers need 'villians'
23:49 VanessaE the answer will most likely also include things that will make it cease to be inviting to legit players.
23:49 PandemoniuM but not 'griefers'
23:50 VanessaE PandemoniuM: villains can be programmed.  griefers can't.
23:50 john_minetest xiong: people flooded the map with lava and water. That was the problem.
23:50 xiong The whole map? All 61 km squared of it?
23:50 john_minetest No, only the spawn area where most buildings were.
23:50 VanessaE people destroyed buildings, took advantage of things like lava cooling or dug deep holes at the spawn, causing new players to fall to their deaths on respawn.
23:51 xiong Well. Maybe you shouldn't build near spawn, then.
23:51 kaeza why?
23:51 john_minetest Nobody wants a house in the middle of nowhere.
23:51 xiong Why is elsewhere nowhere?
23:51 VanessaE so then, because griefers destroy near the spawn, players shouldn't build there?  why?
23:51 VanessaE why should players be forced to move away?
23:51 xiong Why not?
23:51 john_minetest xiong,  I want a house that is seen by everybody. I want the people to see that I can build nice houses.
23:51 VanessaE no, why?
23:51 VanessaE you answer first, you made the first assertion.
23:51 xiong "Everybody"?
23:52 xiong How about you want a house that is seen by people you respect and who respect you?
23:52 john_minetest xiong: Everybody who joins sees the spawn. And with it my house.
23:52 xiong But you do not want your house to be seen by suicide bombers.
23:53 john_minetest When the server is moderated properly there is no need in building in remote locations. Griefers have no chance.
23:53 kaeza alright, /me feels like feeding a troll
23:53 VanessaE at the spawn on Creative I have a big tower I dubbed Minetest Services, Inc.  I'd like people to see that.  Why should I move it away from the spawn just because of some juvenile delinquents?
23:53 VanessaE kaeza: noooooo
23:53 VanessaE don't do it
23:53 * VanessaE takes away kaeza's bag of peanuts :D
23:53 xiong VE, it's a lot of work, punishing people for damaging buildings; it's not easy and no scheme is foolproof, is it? But simply building away from spawn cuts the vandalism to nearly zero.
23:53 kaeza VanessaE, that was meant as past tense or whatever
23:53 john_minetest kaeza: It would be bad not to feed a troll. It would starve :O
23:53 VanessaE oh heh
23:53 kaeza :P
23:54 VanessaE xiong: it's quite trivial "punishing" people, as you put it.
23:54 VanessaE three commands and a griefer and his damage are history.
23:54 john_minetest xiong: Building away from spawn cuts the people building to nearly zero
23:54 xiong The point is not why are you forced to move. Given a new world, one place is just as good as any other, in the general sense. Why value the land near spawn?
23:54 john_minetest The spawn is an exhibition area. Lots of people crowded there.
23:54 john_minetest You can sell your stuff there.
23:54 xiong No, VE; you're contradicting yourself. Earlier you complained about the workload.
23:55 john_minetest The closer to the spawn the more people will see your stuff and buy something.
23:55 VanessaE xiong: yes, because the *rest* of maintaining a server contributes to that workload.
23:55 VanessaE fixing griefings is only a small part of it.
23:55 xiong You guys really have a hard time understanding me, don't you? You can build a town somewhere else. There will be plenty of people, buildings, shops, whatever. You can have a local respawn point there. You can have admirers, critics, collaborators.
23:56 john_minetest xiong: People don't want to walk 30 minutes after joining a server just to build something.
23:56 VanessaE xiong: so you propose, basically, a spawn in the middle of nowhere.  welcome to the 19th century.
23:56 xiong The distance from spawn to your town is a number, a variable. You decide.
23:56 xiong Again, why is that nowhere? What makes the spawn point somewhere?
23:57 VanessaE because of the TIME.
23:57 VanessaE jesus man, do you even PLAY on others' servers?
23:57 xiong John, that's exactly my point. I routinely walk ten or fifteen minutes before I start to build.
23:57 john_minetest xiong: When I have the choice: Walking for 30 minutes and then arriving in a remote area where there are no shops and nothing OR just staying at spawn where everything is crowded and  I can just build, I choose the spawn.
23:57 xiong Then I spend weeks or months building there.
23:57 Jordach xiong, don't force your ideolagy on others
23:58 john_minetest xiong: I routinely walk 5 steps from spawn and start to build whenever I join that server.
23:58 VanessaE it isn't about walking 30 meters or 300 or 3000 - it's about spending 30 MINUTES just finding your way to the nearest town so you can build as part of that server's COMMUNITY and HAVE FUN.
23:58 PandemoniuM calm down jordach
23:58 Jordach he expects everyone to be the same when joining a server
23:58 VanessaE oh wait
23:58 xiong Force, Jordach? What's force? You run your server, we run ours? Or must we all run our servers the same way to avoid "forcing ideology" on new players?
23:58 VanessaE I forgot, "fun" is not in your vocabulary, as you have plainly said in the past.
23:58 PandemoniuM fun is a gateway to the devil
23:59 xiong Why is there anger about this?
23:59 Gethiox joined #minetest
23:59 Jordach xiong, some server's offer things to do, while others are sit back and relax, the ultimate thing to do is upto you
23:59 PandemoniuM i force my players to sit in silence on my server and no build permissions
23:59 VanessaE because you refuse to accept our side of this just as much as you seem to perceive that we don't accept your arguments.
23:59 john_minetest xiong: You can run the server your way. When you got success your principle is proven and people will see that it works and do it like that. Just don't try to convince people who have tried it before and failed.
23:59 VanessaE the difference is that we have 2+ years of history in this game genre to look back on to decide how things are gonna go
23:59 john_minetest They will come early enough when your concept works
23:59 xiong VE, it's not symmetrical. You obviously can run a server as you do. Why cannot we run a server a different way?

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