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IRC log for #minetest, 2013-11-05

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Time Nick Message
00:00 Peacock though it is kinda hard in mt, dependencies aren't like libraries per say
00:00 kaeza this leads to lots of code duplication
00:00 kaeza Peacock, they can be
00:01 Peacock except when everyone has different version of hte same dep
00:01 Peacock then it becomes a problem
00:01 kaeza there was some library around that tried to unify useful bits into a single library...
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00:01 Peacock well probably like many things people couldn't agree on a standard :P
00:02 kaeza didn't get used too much because lol dependencies
00:02 Peacock well people seem to be getting fed up with complex dependency trees
00:02 Peacock ideally most mods should be self contained, except where it's absolutely necessary
00:03 kaeza this one: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=4804
00:04 kaeza otoh, most of the functionality is already built-in
00:04 Peacock march 18th last post
00:05 Peacock well if hte works already all doubled in builtin and the thread aint updated it might almost be eligible for Old
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00:06 Peacock what i dont get is how mods like this https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=7207 manage to stay in general after 8 pages and 5K views
00:06 Peacock this should be in old https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=3836
00:07 Peacock anything where the authors' gone and probably not coming back should be in old really lol
00:07 kaeza undergrowth stays there because Mossmanikin has not explicitly made a stable release
00:08 kaeza lemme rephhrase
00:08 kaeza he has not requested that to be moved
00:08 kaeza also -h
00:08 Peacock well his mod at least works lol i got a shitton of threads in general and releases with broken links and images
00:10 kaeza yes, releases may need some cleanup :/
00:10 Peacock ompldr took alot of shit with it when it went down lol
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00:14 Peacock heck even i lost alot of original copies when my 7yr old pata drive failed lol
00:23 Peacock algea farm! http://s11.postimg.org/5m9t8s​mlv/screenshot_629506592.png
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00:32 kaeza nice
00:35 Peacock thanks all im missing now is the algea-cake maker (machine)
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00:38 Exio4 zat: drugs are bad and you should feel bad </calinou>
00:39 Exio4 \
00:39 us|0gb joined #minetest
00:39 zat eh uh
00:39 zat but it made me feel good
00:39 zat maybe this drug is good?
00:40 Taoki joined #minetest
00:42 Exio4 depends, what do you smoke 8)
00:42 Exio4 anyway, drinking > smoking
00:47 zat Kent iBoost :D
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01:02 Peacock weird irc
01:04 Peacock "Talk like a doge day." wtf is a doge?
01:08 kaeza such awsom, very meme, wow
01:08 us|0gb <Wikipedia> Doge (Italian pronunciation: [ˈdɔːdʒe]; plural dogi or doges) is a Venetian[citation needed] word that descends from the Latin dux (as does the English duke and the standard Italian duce and duca), meaning "leader", especially in a military context.
01:09 us|0gb So I guess we talk like military leaders.
01:09 dafull97 us|0gb! hey
01:09 dafull97 long time
01:09 us|0gb Hello!
01:10 Peacock so duce would be douche in english?
01:10 us|0gb Yeah, feel free.
01:10 us|0gb Peacock: I doubt it.
01:11 us|0gb Ignore that "<us|0gb> Yeah, feel free.", that was meant for another channel.
01:11 Peacock damn, and i was just about to remove my trousers :(
01:13 Peacock (http://youtu.be/39YUXIKrOFk)
01:14 us|0gb YOuTube's been working a lot better for me since I downloaded this browser plugin. I forget what it's called.
01:14 Peacock i know halloween's over, but still :P
01:18 us|0gb What does that have to do with Halloween?
01:19 Peacock the part about me removing my trousers :P it was a joke :P
01:20 us|0gb I still don't understand where Halloween come into play here.
01:20 Peacock omg lol
01:20 Peacock that some people might find it scary
01:20 us|0gb Ah, got it.
01:20 Peacock you totally ruined the joke btw :P
01:21 us|0gb Sorry, but I didn't know what you could mean.
01:21 Peacock thats allright, id try humour in person but people get much more offended face-to-face lol
01:23 us|0gb It's pretty hard to offend me, especially with threats to remove clothing. Nudity is completely natural, and I don't understand why other people don't see that.
01:23 Peacock i'd almost think you were european :P
01:24 us|0gb I SHOULD be European.
01:24 Peacock its particularly funny to see people uncomfortable at the beach here
01:24 us|0gb The D+Europeans have much saner views.
01:24 us|0gb WHere is "here"?
01:25 Peacock well it depends from place to place
01:25 Peacock european society is fine, european government seems a little overboard to me here
01:25 Peacock here it's the other way around
01:25 Peacock here: Canada, north america, etc
01:26 us|0gb YouTube died on me again ...
01:27 Peacock what shiite
01:27 Peacock works for me
01:27 Peacock seriously lol why bother with a 100% libre system to have to use funky plugins to access youtube?
01:28 us|0gb I can access YouTube without them, they just make it easier.
01:28 Menche smtube is my favorite
01:29 Peacock S&Mtube or ??
01:29 us|0gb It looks like NoScript was the problem, and I don't run that one for YouTube, I run it for almost everywhere else.
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01:32 us|0gb Speaking of Halloween, this is my favorite Halloween song: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1t8-_pI1-9Q
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01:50 VanessaE \o/   https://forum.minetest.net/vie​wtopic.php?pid=117097#p117097
01:53 Peacock sweet, ASCII pron :P
01:58 Peacock (kidding) :P
01:59 VanessaE eh
02:00 Peacock must have a little fun on saturday nights :P
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02:02 paramat however bad things get, just be glad you dont have 'trubiling issies' lol https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=7590
02:02 Menche lol
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02:03 Menche can't figure out how to craft items?
02:03 paramat good grief ive just had a request for 87 new biomes :/ https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=7646
02:04 paramat nice algae tanks captain P
02:04 Warr1024 is there an "urban" one?
02:04 paramat urban biome? interesting ... :D
02:06 Warr1024 I was being facetious, but it could actually be interesting
02:06 us|0gb Isn't that what the villages are?
02:06 Warr1024 like, ruins of an old city or something.
02:06 Warr1024 villages are more rural than that :-)
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02:09 Jeff___ anyone know which mod has the quarry that's powered by HV power line?
02:09 Jeff___ I am building my on server and would like to add it
02:09 Jeff___ I think it was the technic mode but I think I'm running the latest and it doesn't have it
02:09 Jeff___ I thought
02:12 Warr1024 anyone else having problems with the new sapling-growing abm?
02:14 us|0gb I haven't used it.
02:14 Warr1024 https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/com​mit/a4b4de6d0e95900e026340f7772cb20064f72959
02:14 Warr1024 since around this change, I've been getting trees with no leaves when I plant saplings
02:14 us|0gb Yeah, I don't even have minetest_game.
02:15 Warr1024 aw
02:15 Warr1024 whaddya run?
02:15 us|0gb I run 0gb.us_game, an in-development game I'm building mostly from scratch.
02:15 Warr1024 ah neat
02:16 Warr1024 yeah, I toyed with the idea of writing a whole game
02:16 Warr1024 it's a lot easier to start with a modpack, though
02:16 us|0gb I have a module called minetest_game_0_4_7_sounds, which is exactly what it sounds like, and I'm using PilzAdam's player_textures, but the rest so far is fresh code/images.
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02:17 Warr1024 fancy
02:17 Warr1024 sounds like a lot of work
02:17 Warr1024 published?
02:19 us|0gb It's far from published. It's not compatible with 0.4.7, so until 0.4.8 is out, there's no point in even publishing the partial work.
02:20 us|0gb Once 0.4.8 is out, I'll post it, but it'll still be far form done.
02:20 Warr1024 ah
02:20 Warr1024 my humble modpack is at gitorious.org/sztest
02:21 Warr1024 it's like 90-some% ideas and like 10% or less actually working :-/
02:21 Menche a lot of people use the dev version, even though 0.4.8 isn't out
02:21 Warr1024 built atop minetest_game, though.
02:21 Warr1024 yeah, I never used 0.4.7
02:21 Warr1024 always gotta have the latest bugfixes.
02:22 us|0gb Menche: I know they do, as do I, but I can't encourage this behavior by posting a game that only works in the dev version. That would be wrong of me. Now if it had a stable branch, that would be different, but it does not.
02:23 us|0gb Warr1024: I used to build a simple game on top of minetest_game. I gave up on that soon after lava became finite.
02:23 Warr1024 why's that?
02:23 Warr1024 I've been targetting my mod around finite liquid...
02:23 us|0gb Minetest_game and I disagree in too many ways.
02:24 Warr1024 ah
02:24 Warr1024 yeah, I figure I'll eventually disagree with it too
02:24 us|0gb Trying to build on it is too stressful for me.
02:24 Warr1024 when that happens, I'll rework things
02:26 EvergreenTree Finite lava sucks
02:27 Warr1024 how do you think it should work instead?
02:27 us|0gb I found myself trying so hard to balance the code in minetest_game with my code that canceled out the frustrating parts, while trying to not throw the game off course. It was too much!
02:27 EvergreenTree Idk why finite liquids were even added, they are quite buggy, and leave a mess
02:27 EvergreenTree Warr1024, Do it the way water us done
02:27 EvergreenTree *is
02:27 us|0gb EvergreenTree: Finite liquids and finite lava are two very different issues.
02:28 Warr1024 you mean 2 source blocks create another source between?
02:28 EvergreenTree Yep
02:28 us|0gb Warr1024: Yeah, lava doesn't do that any more.
02:28 Warr1024 IIRC, they had that in a certain other mining-themed game too, but later removed it.
02:28 EvergreenTree Plus, you can't make fountains with water in finite liquid
02:28 Warr1024 I don't know exactly why, but it sort of makes sense to me.
02:28 Warr1024 EvergreenTree: you just need pumps of some kind for that.
02:28 EvergreenTree Yes it is realistic, but I have no idea why finite lava isn't optional
02:29 EvergreenTree Warr1024, Good idea, but that shouldn't be in minetest_game
02:29 Warr1024 EvergreenTree: yeah, then I guess you won't be able to make finite fountains without mods.
02:29 EvergreenTree Sorry for the short visit, gotta go
02:29 us|0gb EvergreenTree: Because PilzAdam fought to make sure it was not optional. A poll showed that most people either wanted it to be optional or wanted it to not be finite. He didn't care.
02:29 Warr1024 cya
02:30 EvergreenTree been short on time lately
02:30 us|0gb Bye.
02:30 Warr1024 I can think of some valid reasons not to want to make something configurable
02:30 Warr1024 if it affects the behavior of the system, or its balance, enough that it makes it a nightmare to test with all the config combinations
02:31 Warr1024 but then again, if a particular alternative configuration is much more popular, it's not too hard to fork.
02:31 Warr1024 also, you can create fluids using an ABM as a very small tweak on top of the "standard" code
02:31 us|0gb Infinite lava had already been tried and tested for years. No more testing would be needed to keep that option.
02:31 Warr1024 us|0gb: yes, but more testing would be needed for finite lava.
02:32 Warr1024 apparently pilz didn't want to be responsible for both going forward.
02:32 us|0gb Finite lava was ADDED.
02:32 us|0gb It needed testing, but the old option did not.
02:32 Warr1024 that's not how testing works
02:32 Warr1024 you don't just test something and then assume that it will continue to work forever
02:33 Warr1024 it's not just about the fact that 2 lava blocks makes a 3rd
02:33 us|0gb It's too much of a chore to try to build on minetest_game. I'm done trying to do that. I'll take the sounds from minetest_game, but the rest will be new code for me.
02:33 Warr1024 personally, I don't like the idea of any resource being finite.
02:33 Warr1024 I like the idea of being able to artificially duplicate anything
02:33 Warr1024 but the process doesn't need to be simple or easy.
02:34 us|0gb EXACTLY!
02:34 us|0gb At least with any resource that gets used up.
02:34 us|0gb It doesn't need to be easy,but it needs to be doable.
02:34 Warr1024 so personally, lava should be theoretically infinite, but I'd want it to be much more involved than dumping 2 buckets side-by-side.
02:36 Warr1024 starting from scratch is too much work for me, though.
02:36 us|0gb My game will have some finite resources. But those resources will not be ones that get used up. They won't make tools, they won't make furnace fuels, they'll just be building materials. Rarity adds value, but finite resources that won't always be there are a problem.
02:36 Warr1024 easier to just fill in gaps and smooth over the rough spots...
02:36 us|0gb It depends on HOW you plan yo smooth out the game and fill the holes. My methods are .... less than easy.
02:36 us|0gb *you
02:36 Warr1024 yeah
02:37 Warr1024 I did some development on top of BTW for MC back in the day.
02:37 Warr1024 my old mod's readme: https://gitorious.org/bwr/bwr/source/master:README
02:37 us|0gb If you don't have a specific standard, it makes work easier. But I believe in very strict standards when developing.
02:38 Warr1024 it died after suffering much at the hands of the prevailing closed-source culture.
02:38 Warr1024 yeah, my standard is the thing I'm currently developing.
02:38 us|0gb Yeah, that's understandable.
02:39 us|0gb I'm here because of the freedom. A closed community is not a place for me.
02:39 Warr1024 For a while I enjoyed the challenge it offered.
02:39 Warr1024 developing an open-source mod for a closed-source mod for a closed-source game, it was like being deep behind enemy lines.
02:40 Warr1024 and I had some important technical restrictions, like the fact that I couldn't add any blocks or items.
02:41 us|0gb I had that restriction too, but self-imposed. I could not add any nodes or items, nor could I break the balance of resource scarcity.
02:41 Warr1024 yeah, I'm pretty sure I don't want to mess with mapgen.
02:41 us|0gb Now I'm adding ALL the nodes, so it's a complete reversal.
02:42 Warr1024 are you keeping the same general theme?
02:42 Warr1024 dirt and rocks and stuff, with plants growing on top?
02:42 us|0gb Assuming I ever finish the project, the game's node limit will be reached.
02:42 Warr1024 or are you setting it in some completely different kind of place?
02:43 us|0gb The game's map generator imposes certain names on the nodes. To make the names make sense, I'm using similar nodes as minetest_game for mapgen.
02:44 us|0gb There will be a lot of differences, but it will probably seem quite familiar as well.
02:44 us|0gb I'm using a similar color scheme for mapgen as well. Read dessert stone, et cetera.
02:44 Warr1024 mmm, sounds delicious
02:45 us|0gb My apple leaves are incredibly ugly. I may or may not be able to fix that.
02:45 us|0gb Especially because I will have at least two types of apple tree: wild and domestic.
02:46 Warr1024 sounds really ambitious
02:46 us|0gb I'm still trying to figure out where to get the saplings ....
02:48 us|0gb I don't know what to do about mese either. THe game expects a node called "default:mese", but mese is a minetest_game thing. And what about poptart cats? I don't want those, but the game expects "default:nyancat" and "default:nyancat_rainbow".
02:49 Warr1024 aliases
02:49 Warr1024 or just register dummy nodes and have their on_construct and/or abm replace themselves with your "stone" node
02:49 Warr1024 then sprinkle in your own ores or whatever?
02:50 Warr1024 I used a similar hack to disable bones.
02:50 us|0gb There won't be room for extra nodes that erase themselves. The game has a node limit and I intend to hit it.
02:50 us|0gb Even if it was just raised to a preposterous level.
02:50 Warr1024 will you really have time to program that many nodes, or are you going to do stuff like nodes that have like 200+ type variants?
02:51 Warr1024 for all we know, community pressure + moore's law may cause that limit to keep climbing.
02:51 Warr1024 I don't think there's any way I could use that many nodes ID's myself unless I created some nodes with a ton of variants.
02:52 us|0gb Those will all be unique nodes. Except, I may cheat and make heavy use of freezemelt, cutting the number of ideas needed in half. It will still be a lot of leg work though.
02:52 Warr1024 that sounds like it will take forever to finish.
02:52 us|0gb It would allow, for example, frosted ground.
02:52 Warr1024 by that time, we may yet see the node limit break into 32 bits...
02:52 us|0gb It will take forever to finish, yes.
02:53 us|0gb If the limit climbs even one more time, I may not make it. I might not even make it as it is.
02:53 Warr1024 Is using up all of the id's your actual goal?
02:53 us|0gb In that case, at least the effort I put in can be used by other people.
02:54 * Menche should probably get around to finishing his game sometime
02:54 Menche "finish" as in get it basically working
02:54 us|0gb No, that's not the real goal. The real goal is to learn Minetest's API.
02:54 Warr1024 so I don't really get the difference between a game and a modpack, except that apparently you can't pick apart a game.
02:54 Warr1024 yet games contain multiple independent mods
02:54 us|0gb By the time I implement that much, I should know the API pretty well.
02:54 Warr1024 so why not just have only modpacks?
02:55 us|0gb Because you have to have a game to run Minetest.
02:55 Warr1024 you just need to have a modpack that defines a few standard things.
02:55 Warr1024 or a mod.
02:55 us|0gb If there was a blank game, it would work as modpacks.
02:55 Warr1024 yeah, that's sort of what I'm thinking
02:55 us|0gb But as it is, a modpack would need to run on top of, for example, minetest_game.
02:56 Warr1024 why not just build in a blank game and ship stuff like minetest_game as a modpack.
02:56 Warr1024 A game is just a collection of mods that's arbitrarily treated as atomic.
02:56 us|0gb If you wanted to use minetest_game that way, you could rearrange the parts.
02:56 Warr1024 hence if minetest_game were a modpack that ran on top of nothing, it would cut down on the bitching about not being able to disable the bones mod.
02:56 Menche you can switch between games. you can't just run a modpack on its own.
02:56 us|0gb However, I don't want to rely on that game any more.
02:57 Warr1024 Menche: you could run a modpack on its own if it defined the stuff the base game was looking for.
02:57 Menche IMO a game should just be a file referencing mods from other modpacks
02:57 Warr1024 hm, that's a good way to look at it.
02:57 us|0gb Menche: Warr1024 means if you had a blank game that defines nothing.
02:57 us|0gb Menche: I completely agree.
02:57 Menche like the old "common" modpack, but more flexible and done better
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03:06 Topic for #minetest is now Website: http://minetest.net |  Rules: be patient, respect other users, here and in other channels | Core Devs: #minetest-dev | Servers: http://minetest.net/servers | IRC Logs: http://irc.minetest.ru/minetest/ | Talk like a doge day.
03:07 Warr1024 I always liked big endian naming
03:07 Warr1024 but it's fine, it's a matter of personal style.
03:07 us|0gb DNS isn't big endian though.
03:07 Warr1024 yeah, but bugs in DNS are out of scope for discussion here :-)
03:07 us|0gb 0gb.us is an FQDN.
03:07 Warr1024 makes urls a big mes
03:07 dumdidum i have a little problem. i used the mining laser from technic mod and now i have some laser beams hanging in the air ... they don't disappear. is there a way to remove them?
03:08 Warr1024 http://small.medium.big/big/medium/small
03:08 Warr1024 dumdidum: try relogging mebbe?
03:08 us|0gb Warr1024: You do have a point.
03:08 Warr1024 anyway, the only problem that any prefix or suffix naming convention would be a problem would be if we tried to implement each other as mods, and both ended up with warr_0gb_us
03:09 us|0gb dumdidum: You might need to destroy them yourself, either with code or your fist.
03:09 dumdidum that's the problem. they are not destructible ...
03:10 us|0gb Right. I'd use whatever convention was decided upon, assuming one was decided upon. If everyone went with the standard, there shouldn't be issues.
03:10 Warr1024 we don't even really need to ratify a standard
03:10 us|0gb dumdidum: Remove technic, then they'll be destroyable. Destroy them, then put technic back in.
03:10 Warr1024 just do the prefix/suffix thing as you feel like.
03:11 Warr1024 almost any prefix/suffix choice you make narrows the chance of collisions.
03:11 Warr1024 guidelines for new modders might be nice.
03:11 us|0gb THat's another thing about games versus modpacks. Modpacks have to worry about naming clashes.
03:12 Warr1024 games don't have to worry about naming clashes within themselves, and modpacks don't have to worry about naming clashes within themselves.
03:12 dumdidum us|0gb: thanks, worked :)
03:12 Warr1024 and if there are naming clashes between modpacks and games, neither will work right.
03:12 us|0gb Games are standalone, so if there is a clash, it's the module or modpack's issue to solve, the game is fine.
03:12 us|0gb dumdidum: Good to hear!
03:12 Warr1024 yeah, but that's really just a hand-wave.
03:12 us|0gb It is. The real answer is real namespaces.
03:13 Warr1024 i.e. games are just special degenerate cases of modpacks that automatically conflict with EVERYTHING.
03:13 Warr1024 real namespaces would be pretty not-bad.
03:13 us|0gb Not just the pseudo-namespaces I used to use.
03:13 Warr1024 We could do the awful thing they do in java and use reverse fake fqdns :-)
03:13 Warr1024 3-level deep naming would probably be good enough.
03:14 us|0gb Fake? I though they used real FQDNs.
03:14 Warr1024 author_or_publisher:modname:thing
03:14 Warr1024 us|0gb: they're just arbitrary dot-separated paths
03:14 Warr1024 they like to use com.*
03:14 Warr1024 but you aren't required to
03:14 Warr1024 and they don't have to actually be dns-resolvable.
03:14 us|0gb Also, I like Java's naming convention, as real FQDNs are unique. No chance of clashing if you follow the standard.
03:15 us|0gb They don't HAVE to resolve, but the convention is for them to resolve.
03:15 Warr1024 yeah, except for all the http://tempuri.org shit that you see MS do, an for people who use com.mycompanyname then find out that the domain is registered AFTER they write all teh code...
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03:15 us|0gb Fair enough.
03:15 Warr1024 hell, I've used com.gmail.warr1024.projectname as a namespace convention
03:15 Warr1024 sort of cumbersome though.
03:16 us|0gb Anyway, the reason I use an FQDN as my user name is for that naming clash reason. If someone uses 0gb.us as their user name, you know it's either my or an identity thief. Any name clash must be INTENTIONAL.
03:17 us|0gb *me
03:17 Warr1024 ultimately, choosing a good non-colliding unique name for something will always end up the responsibility of the content-maker, regardless of any technical measures put in place to try to force them.
03:17 Warr1024 Well, that's the same reason I'm Warr1024 instead of just Warr.
03:17 Warr1024 There aren't a hell of a lot of Warr's out there, and not many registered to the same service that had to bump their ID's.
03:17 Warr1024 I'm safe for a while.
03:18 us|0gb I do like that <user>:<module>:<node> convention you thought up though. I wonder how hard it would be to get that implemented in Minetest ....
03:19 Warr1024 I was thinking of making a mod to add a "sponge" as a tool to mop up those finite liquid spills.  Had I called the mod just "sponge", I'd be asking for a name conflict, though.
03:19 us|0gb I mean get it accepted, not the technical part. The technical part would be insainly easy.
03:20 us|0gb Yeah, a conflict indeed.
03:20 Warr1024 accepted sounds like it would be tricky, if people were bitching about your *_0gb_us naming.
03:20 us|0gb Good point.
03:20 Warr1024 Java order: us_0gb_*
03:20 Warr1024 and if your miracle ever arrives, just replace that _ with a :
03:21 Warr1024 personally, I don't think it really matters whether there's a : or a _
03:21 Warr1024 the only reason for the : between modname and node/item/ent name is for a technical measure to try to enforce compliance.
03:22 Warr1024 though there are ways around it for someone determined.
03:22 Warr1024 all you really need to do is:
03:22 Warr1024 do local old_reg_node = minetest.register_node function minetest.register_node(name, ...) <check for enough _'s in the name> old_reg_node(name, ...) end end
03:23 us|0gb True. A separate character should be used though, as underscores are used for other things in node names. A colon would be good for use as both separators.
03:23 Warr1024 us_0gb_default_nyancat_rainbow
03:24 Warr1024 any or all or none of them could be colons
03:24 Warr1024 it makes little difference to me.
03:24 Warr1024 logcally, each thing to the right is a sub-thing of that to the left.
03:24 us|0gb It would be better than nothing, but us_0gb:default:nyancat_rainbow seems more correct to me.
03:24 Warr1024 author:mod:node
03:25 Warr1024 or in the case above country:author:mod:node:subnode
03:25 us|0gb I mean, what id "us" makes a "0gb" plugin with "default_nyancat_rainbow"? We need the colons.
03:25 us|0gb *if
03:26 Warr1024 well, if you want to know where a node came from, yeah, colons help
03:26 us|0gb Not just that, but preventing clashes.
03:26 Warr1024 if you're just worried about uniqueness and some semblance of namespacing so that e.g. a lexical sort will put similar things together, delmiters don't matter much.
03:26 Warr1024 I mean, how likely is it that somebody named us is going to make a 0gb_default mod?
03:27 us|0gb Not likely, but I prefer to account for as much as can be accounted for.
03:27 us|0gb THere could also be another 0gb.us user, but I cannot account for that, so I am forced to ignore it.
03:28 Warr1024 we need to be able to be flexible with the author names, though
03:28 Warr1024 we don't want it locked to an account or domain name or anything
03:28 Warr1024 otherwise it becomes difficult to hand over maintanance of a mod to somebody else.
03:28 Warr1024 which is an important consideration with open source.
03:28 us|0gb Right. Some developers are not on the forum.
03:28 Warr1024 I'm not on the forum, for instance.
03:28 Warr1024 I do my work out of gitorious.
03:29 Warr1024 if someone forks it, and I hand over formal maintanership, they'll probably be on github or bitbucket or one of the more popular systems.
03:29 us|0gb Handing it over has that issue anyway, as it would need to switch to their user name. Unless it kept the original author's name, in which case handoff is no issue, regardless of how user names are decided.
03:29 Warr1024 so I probably wouldn't use my gitiroius project url...
03:29 Warr1024 I guess you could use a sort of "project persona"
03:30 Warr1024 i.e. my modpack is called "sztest" and my naming convention is prefixing each mod and class with sz_
03:30 us|0gb A project persona though is basically just the module name.
03:30 Warr1024 well, the persona case would be "modpack:mod:thing"
03:31 us|0gb WHat is multiple people use, for example, the "mining" persona?
03:31 Warr1024 No matter how many layers we make, though I think in the end there's just no substitute for careful name choice and planning for conflict avoidance from the getgo.
03:31 OldCoder I'd like to know about ghostshell myself
03:31 us|0gb I don't know what ghostshell is.
03:32 Warr1024 well, if someone uses the "mining" or even "better_mining" personae, they're idiots and will have to pay the price by fixing all their old code :-/
03:32 Menche the gameboom admin?
03:33 us|0gb Careful naming, such as pseudo-namespaces, seems to be frowned upon though. I don't see how much more careful I can be than that.
03:33 Warr1024 I dunno, I usually just do what seems to be the most right thing to do, based on the information I have available.
03:34 Warr1024 pseudo-namespaces may not be pretty, but they help solve an important problem.
03:34 us|0gb I agree.
03:34 ShadowNinja I discourage breaking mods into modpacks with a bunch of related mods. Just use seperate LuAnn files and maybe add a conf for which sections to load.
03:34 Warr1024 It seems that that should counterbalance a lot of non-specific frowning.
03:35 ShadowNinja Lua*
03:35 us|0gb ShadowNinja: We mean entirely different modules. For example, there's two "gems" modules. THey need namespaces.
03:35 Warr1024 ShadowNinja: 6 of one, half a dozen of the other.  Either configured thorugh minetest.conf, or through world.mt..
03:35 ShadowNinja (stupid spellcheck)
03:35 Warr1024 I think we're also more concerned about cross-author naming collisions.
03:36 Warr1024 of course, intra-author naming collisions would just be dumb.
03:36 Menche "modules"?
03:36 us|0gb Indeed.
03:36 Warr1024 modules, modifications, mods.
03:36 ShadowNinja Well don't chose generin names like gems.
03:36 Dan__________ joined #minetest
03:36 ShadowNinja "Plugins" is really more correct than mods.
03:37 Warr1024 yeah, but mods saves wear on my keyboard.
03:37 Menche but all the official documentation calls them "mods".
03:37 us|0gb Menche: "Mods" is typically short for "modifications", which is not what Minetest "mods" are. But people don't like me calling them "plugins". I'm hoping "modules" will make people more happy.
03:37 us|0gb Menche: The official documentation is using incorrect terminology. THat isn't my fault.
03:38 Warr1024 they're pluggable modules that modify the game experience.  I don't think it matters what we call 'em.
03:38 us|0gb If the docs say the Minetest sky is red, I'm not falling for it.
03:38 Menche regardless of other meanings of the term, minetest calls them "mods". It will be really confusing if everyone comes up with their own names for things.
03:39 Warr1024 I'm content with "mods" and intentionally leaving ambiguous what it's short for.
03:39 mrtux joined #minetest
03:39 Menche i agree "plugin" is perhaps a better term, but "mod" is what they are called.
03:39 us|0gb Menche: It's more confusing to have different communities using words in different ways. Consistency is important.
03:39 ShadowNinja They're called mods because MC has no plugin API, just mods.
03:40 us|0gb "Mod" doesn't mean what we use it to mean. If you all want to call them "mods", I will not argue. But I also will not join in with this incorrect usage of the word.
03:40 ShadowNinja And many players come from MC.
03:41 Warr1024 yeah, well there's a lot that an MC "mod" implies that's not true here in MT, beyond the technical...
03:41 NekoGloop joined #minetest
03:41 Warr1024 for instance, hostageware licenses are not very popular here.
03:42 us|0gb For sure. THey're technically not allowed on the forum.
03:42 us|0gb Though people use them anyway, sometimes.
03:42 us|0gb I think the rule enforcers have forgotten the exact rules.
03:43 Menche adf.ly is another annoyance that is rampant in Minecraft that's not really used here
03:43 Warr1024 We use butthurt-proof licenses here.
03:43 us|0gb Anything that disallows derivatives is not allowed though. Also, the modules are REQUIRED to be in .zip format.
03:43 Menche they are?
03:43 Warr1024 well, that's a forum thing.
03:43 us|0gb They are.
03:43 Warr1024 not really a HERE thing, being that here is really just IRC.
03:43 us|0gb Well yeah, in the forum.
03:44 Warr1024 Personally, the way I prefer to share and receive any creative work is via git.
03:44 VanessaE cy1: *poke*
03:44 Warr1024 i.e. github or gitorious.
03:44 Menche why zip, not .tar.gz, .tar.xz, or just some git host?
03:44 us|0gb Menche: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=1271
03:44 Warr1024 open source is nice, but open *source control* is the way to go
03:44 cy1 VanessaE: *squeak*
03:45 Warr1024 I can see why zip, though, for our Windows users.
03:45 VanessaE cy1: item drop is busted.
03:45 us|0gb I don't know why. GitHub uses .zip though.
03:45 cy1 of course item drop is busted
03:45 Menche i think github also offers downloads as .tar.gz, just hidden
03:45 Warr1024 Windows does not do tarballs very easily, but zip is pretty accessible on any platform.
03:45 VanessaE use a technic chainsaw to cut down a tree, and item_drop will trigger a vector lib crash
03:45 cy1 with all those huge changes I made to it.
03:45 us|0gb Yea, .tar.gz is hidden. I use it for all my automated stuff though.
03:45 Menche not all linux distributions will have zip installed by default, but they will almost certainly have tar and gz
03:45 Warr1024 of course, you could be an a-hole and include 2 vital files in your mod that differ only by filename case.
03:45 us|0gb *Yeah
03:46 VanessaE cy1: Specifically:  ServerError: LuaError: error: /usr/share/minetest/builtin/vector.lua:5: Invalid vector
03:46 cy1 VanessaE: It's funny my test server has both item drop and technic and no crash observed. I practically levelled my map with a chainsaw!
03:46 Warr1024 switching between case-sensitive and case-insentiitive filesystems always screws me up.
03:46 VanessaE cy1: but with no traceback.
03:46 cy1 Yeah that doesn't help that tracebacks are broken...
03:46 cy1 You can look at the vector.lua file to see what function it is though, and just grep your source code for that. <_<
03:46 us|0gb Warr1024: Actually, I have that in one module, but for legitimate reasons. It's a letters module. I forgot about Windows issues when I did that.
03:47 ShadowNinja Blame whoever set NULL errfuncs.
03:47 VanessaE line 5 is the generic assert() call that prints the error message.
03:47 cy1 ShadowNinja: Damn that whoever!
03:47 VanessaE (i.e. useless)
03:47 VanessaE ShadowNinja: can this be remedied?
03:47 us|0gb If somone has an issue with my module, I guess I'll have to remove the lower case nodes.
03:47 cy1 VanessaE: It's inside a particular function though! And yes it can be remedied... with a  patch to minetest.
03:47 Warr1024 us|0gb: Eh, who needs 'em...
03:48 stormchaser3000 joined #minetest
03:48 stormchaser3000 hi
03:48 stormchaser3000 vanessa
03:48 us|0gb Who needs lower case letters? I do, for one.
03:48 ShadowNinja VanessaE: Yes, but it is beyond my current knowledge of the Lua C API.
03:48 Warr1024 I meant Windows users, of course...:-)
03:48 cy1 Oh damn I think I see.
03:48 stormchaser3000 what server is the other irc server chanel on
03:48 VanessaE cy1: sure but how am I supposed to know which function if I can't trace it back to the calling routine?
03:48 VanessaE ShadowNinja: I understand
03:48 cy1 minetest guys must have updated vector.lua. :p I haven't pulled minetest in a while.
03:48 us|0gb Warr1024: I try so hard not to think that.
03:49 cy1 VanessaE: You can tell which function in vector.lua. Then I just look for vector.whatever in my code...
03:49 Warr1024 I hear that like 99% of gameplay is single player, but even if I'm the only one on, I can't really imagine not running a multiplayer server.
03:49 Warr1024 and of course, running a multiplayer server on Windows just sounds bizarre.
03:49 stormchaser3000 ikr
03:49 us|0gb Doing anything on WIndows seems bizarre to me.
03:49 stormchaser3000 how do i run a server on lunux
03:49 stormchaser3000 i am using linux
03:49 Warr1024 Eh, I use windows ot make money.
03:49 VanessaE cy1: pull minetest again and you will see that I cannot possibly tell you which function throws the error.
03:49 Warr1024 i.e. they provide machines at the job and I don't get to pick the OS.
03:50 us|0gb stormchaser3000: It depends on how you installed Minetest. How did you?
03:50 VanessaE local function assert_vector(v)
03:50 VanessaE assert(type(v) == "table" and v.x and v.y and v.z, "Invalid vector")
03:50 VanessaE end
03:50 stormchaser3000 i compiled it as a run in place build
03:50 cy1 Oh riiight. I did patch minetest so vector.lua isn't broken. They ignored my pull request I think. Or maybe I just didn't give it.
03:50 VanessaE that assert is the one that prints the error messgae.
03:51 us|0gb stormchaser3000: Okay, in that case, find the path to the minetestserver executable, and run it on the command line.
03:51 stormchaser3000 ok
03:51 us|0gb It should be in minetest/bin/minetestserver.
03:51 VanessaE stormchaser3000: the servers' IRC channel is horus.inchra.net #minetest
03:51 stormchaser3000 ok
03:51 VanessaE cy1: I don't see a pull request from you for it
03:51 us|0gb But that path is obviously relative, and you'll probably want absolute.
03:53 cy1 I'll try patching it just against the current master... I can never merge my earlier patches. git's merge algorithm is so fucked up...
03:53 VanessaE ok
03:54 stormchaser3000 ok
03:54 stormchaser3000 i started a server
03:54 stormchaser3000 it is not on the public list
03:54 stormchaser3000 and has no basic conf sttings
03:55 cy1 Hm... looks like someone already did the changes. Dunno if it was me or what, but vector.lua doesn't error out every time you call vector.new (but only near the center of the map)
03:55 Warr1024 don't forget to put it in your crontab or something if you want it to restart automatically on reboot.
03:55 VanessaE well point of fact I am near the center of the map.
03:55 cy1 I'll just fix it to print a stack trace, so we can actually see where my item drop code is messing up.
03:55 us|0gb If you want settings, you need to set them before starting. Create a file called "minetest.conf" in the minetest directory.
03:56 Warr1024 copy minetest.conf.example and start from there
03:56 us|0gb The information on which settings are needed to get on the public list should be in minetest.conf.example, stormchaser3000.
03:56 stormchaser3000 i know
03:56 VanessaE stormchaser3000: http://minetest.net/servers  bottom of the page.
03:58 stormchaser3000 ok should i post my ip here
03:58 stormchaser3000 i want someone to test my server
03:59 ShadowNinja Aha! http://stackoverflow.com/questions/12256455/p​rint-stacktrace-from-c-code-with-embedded-lua
03:59 Menche if you want someone to test your server, you probably should post your ip
04:00 stormchaser3000 i sent it to ogb
04:00 stormchaser3000 0gb*
04:00 Warr1024 argh, where'd that lib_6d code get to?
04:00 VanessaE Warr1024: #959
04:00 VanessaE https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/959
04:00 Warr1024 I thought I had written down that link somewhere but must have done an irresponsible git reset --hard at some point
04:01 Warr1024 oh, this is an upstream candidate?
04:01 Warr1024 fancy
04:01 VanessaE yes
04:01 Warr1024 really, there should just be a paramtype2 = "facedir6d" or something
04:01 Warr1024 or maybe groups = { facedir_6d = 1 }
04:01 VanessaE perhaps, but this code helsp to that end. :)
04:02 Warr1024 I'ma take a gander at it
04:02 Warr1024 looks like you can use that as a drop-in replacement for on_place or something
04:02 Warr1024 ?
04:02 VanessaE almost
04:02 Warr1024 infinitestacks is a createive mode toggle?
04:02 Warr1024 pardon the speling
04:02 VanessaE you have to code your own way to decide whether to invert the wall detection, etc.
04:03 VanessaE (e.g. checking for 'sneak', or setting it via a /command or something)
04:03 Warr1024 ah, I see.
04:03 VanessaE not exactly.  the default minetest_game, if it uses this code, would set that equal to the creative mode flag yeah
04:03 VanessaE but other mods could change it.  unified inventory doesn't use infinite stacks, for example, even in creative.
04:03 Warr1024 so this bases the direction to face on the normal vector of the surface against which you're placing it?
04:04 VanessaE it bases it on the direction the player is facing.
04:04 Warr1024 ah
04:04 ShadowNinja Drat, 46 matches for lua_pcall, and only one has a errfunc.
04:04 Warr1024 I've also seen face dirs based on the predominant axis in the vector from player to node
04:04 VanessaE I could add some code to make wall placement directly detect the surface, but didn't see a point
04:05 Warr1024 which is, more or less, usually equal to the direction the player is facing :-)
04:05 Warr1024 wall placement?
04:05 VanessaE when you place a supported node, and you're pointing at a wall, it rotates the node such that the top side of the node is facing you
04:05 VanessaE e.g. a slab becomes a wall slab.
04:05 Warr1024 oh, neat
04:05 Warr1024 ha, I didn't even think about those
04:06 Warr1024 I guess you could use what I think was the RedPower2 system.
04:06 Warr1024 i.e. divide the face you're pointing at into 5 areas
04:06 Warr1024 4 trapezoids and an inner square
04:07 Warr1024 the tricky part to that is that I don't think you can display a selection cue to the player to warn them which area they're pointing at...
04:12 cy1 ...any way to make saplings grow fester?
04:12 Warr1024 I've only ever gotten them to grow trees.
04:13 cy1 *faster
04:13 Warr1024 :-)
04:13 Warr1024 it seems that now they do actually count time unloaded.
04:13 Warr1024 i.e. if you leave an area or a server, so that they're unloaded, then come back, they may spring up instantly.
04:14 Warr1024 so I guess you could use /time to fast-forward :-)
04:15 VanessaE cy1: use creative mode and just stack the trunks up by hand :)
04:15 Warr1024 well, if you're going to go that far, /giveme default:tree 99
04:15 VanessaE exactly
04:17 VanessaE ShadowNinja: looks like all code posted on stackoverflow is cc-by-sa 3.0, just fyi
04:18 ShadowNinja VanessaE: The necessary function already exists.
04:18 VanessaE oh good
04:18 cy1 VanessaE: haha noo
04:19 cy1 I'll just wait
04:19 VanessaE cy1: what, it's faster :)
04:19 cy1 I covered 0,0,0 with sequoia saplings :p
04:19 Warr1024 are you testing some bug?
04:21 Warr1024 ah, ShadowNinja, I just saw that you tagged my minetest_game bug, thanks.
04:23 ShadowNinja NP.
04:23 Warr1024 man, it must be nice getting more than 4fps and maybe seeing more than 32 meters in front of your face.
04:23 Warr1024 y'all say this used to be faster back in the day?
04:24 Warr1024 I noticed that if the F6 profiler is to be believed, about 99+% of the time is spent on mesh generation, even when standing still.
04:24 cy1 Warr1024: Yeah, technic chainsaw makes items drop, item drop mod makes game crash
04:24 ShadowNinja Warr1024: Try 0.3.1.
04:24 Warr1024 yeah, ouch.
04:24 Menche why 0.3.1?
04:24 Warr1024 I don't think my mods would work on 0.3.1 :-)
04:24 Menche the latest in that branch is 0.3.3
04:24 cy1 I made a gutsy little mod to charge any technic device to ridiculous levels. Can chainsaw like, all the moretrees in sight at once.
04:25 cy1 So, this should be interesting... hopefully I can reproduce the bug.
04:26 VanessaE wow
04:26 VanessaE I need to make some bigger trees then......
04:26 cy1 haha spawn is solid sequoias now
04:26 cy1 VanessaE: It's a command for admins only! :p
04:26 VanessaE hehe
04:27 VanessaE Warr1024: yeah. http://irc.minetest.ru/minetest-dev/2013-11-05
04:27 cy1 'kk chainsawing
04:27 cy1 ...still going
04:27 cy1 ok
04:28 VanessaE did you at least reproduce the crash?
04:28 cy1 went through a hundred sequoias like butter :p no crash
04:29 Warr1024 I have this sneaking suspicion that there's some work being done in the mesh generation to optimize the tesselation of continuous surfaces, which is not itself optimized
04:29 Warr1024 so I wonder if there's a CPU vs. GFX trade-off in effect there.
04:29 Warr1024 I think I've got graphic power to spare on this machine, as no messing with any of the video settings affects my framerate
04:30 Warr1024 so if I could just use a simpler, more naive mesh generation algo, I might get better overall performance.
04:31 Warr1024 On my laptop I can pull 15fps with a viewrange of 1024 on a good day.
04:31 Warr1024 I guess it's still a good thing that my netbook performs as well at this game as my laptop did on that OTHER mining game.
04:37 Warr1024 so the fact that you can place nodes over your own body, and don't suffocate when your head is inside a solid node: is this a bug, or is it intentional?
04:38 VanessaE not sure if you can call it a bug, but I don't think it's intentional, either
04:38 Warr1024 It's sort of related to https://github.com/minetes​t/minetest_game/issues/213
04:38 stormchaser3000 left #minetest
04:39 Warr1024 There are a couple of things wrong with that bug, at least one of which is an engine problem.
04:39 Warr1024 i.e. the ability to shove your head a small distance into the block above your when swimming up.
04:39 Menche what about extending drowning so you can "drown" in any non-walkable node?
04:39 Warr1024 you mean walkable?
04:39 Menche i guess
04:39 Warr1024 (walkable = walk-on-able, not walk-through-able, right?)
04:40 Warr1024 I thought about that.
04:40 Menche i always get that mixed up
04:40 Menche really confusing term.
04:40 Warr1024 yeah, "solid" might have been a better name
04:40 Menche yeah
04:40 Warr1024 Though what constitutes a truly "solid" thing is sort of nebulous.
04:40 Warr1024 like, how do you deal with suffocation in nodeboxes
04:41 Warr1024 MC never got it right either.
04:41 Warr1024 I was once working on a mod where I had to determine whether 2 areas were connected by any amount of "air"
04:41 Warr1024 not the block of air, but any air gaps
04:41 Warr1024 it was a nightmare of special-case coding.
04:41 Menche nodeboxes like stairs are technically whichever value of "walkable" means "solid", so just keep it simple and make the player suffocate in them
04:42 Menche hmm, actually that would be a bad idea
04:42 Menche doors
04:43 Menche suffocate in any node that is liquid, solid, and not of the nodebox drawtype
04:44 Menche is what i would do
04:44 Menche s/not of the nodebox drawtype/of the normal drawtype
04:44 Menche should suffocate in torchlike/signlike/plantlike/raillike or any other either
04:44 Menche *not
04:44 Warr1024 I tried that
04:44 Warr1024 nodeboxes are a bit complicated though
04:44 Warr1024 i.e. you could have a nodebox like stairs that's "mostly" solid
04:44 Warr1024 or one that's practically empty.
04:45 Warr1024 I guess you could just choose an arbitrary 3-dimensional point and say the player's "nose" is there
04:45 mrtux joined #minetest
04:45 Warr1024 as long as it's contained within the player's hitbox, you shouldn't be able to walk into a door and suffocate.
04:45 Menche or, to keep it simple, just say that you can't suffocate in any nodeboxes.
04:45 Warr1024 I guess
04:46 Warr1024 I never liked the fact that in MC there was a ton of stuff that didn't suffocate you.
04:46 Warr1024 like glass
04:46 Warr1024 maybe the cleanest way to do it is to add a groups = { solid = 1 } or something
04:47 Menche can't you get the node definition and check for the drawtype and walkable variable?
04:47 Warr1024 yes, I've used that before, but it still seems hacky.
04:47 Menche would stairs be in the "solid" group or not? part of them is solid, part isn't
04:47 Menche so that would be no better.
04:47 Warr1024 plus I'm not sure what'll happen if they add more drawtypes later.
04:48 Menche i don't think it is hacky. the node definitions are made available to be checked.
04:48 Warr1024 yeah, but I mean using drawtype in that way is hacky.
04:49 Warr1024 we're assuming that the way in which the node is presented is supposed to determine how it behaves.
04:50 Menche i guess basing it solely on "walkable" would work. the other drawtypes still have that variable.
04:51 Warr1024 I guess when I went to implement that myself, I ran into the problem that it was hard to decide whether to have a list of drawtypes that were "solid" or a list of drawtypes that were "non-solid"
04:54 Menche my suggestion of using the drawtype was dumb, just using walkable should work
04:55 Warr1024 there's also climbable.
04:55 Menche now could that be done in lua, or does the engine handle that?
04:55 Warr1024 ladders are climbable and walkable.
04:55 Warr1024 I had once implemented this, then suffocated on a ladder.
04:55 cy1 The suffocation bug is gone now.
04:55 Warr1024 for suffocation, I *think* it's done it lua.  When I had written mine, it was all lua.
04:55 Menche so, does "walkable = 1" mean you can walk *through* or walk *on* the node?
04:55 Menche i always get confused about that
04:55 Warr1024 cy1: which one?
04:55 cy1 walkable = 1 means on the node. As in it's solid.
04:56 cy1 Warr1024: Where you suffocate on ladders and beside torches.
04:56 reactor joined #minetest
04:56 Warr1024 that was a bug in minetest_game or something?
04:56 cy1 idk
04:56 Menche Warr1024, ladders are not walkable
04:57 Menche https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game​/blob/master/mods/default/nodes.lua#L603
04:57 Menche so i think that would work
04:57 Warr1024 huh, weird
04:57 Warr1024 I could have sworn that they were a problem.
04:57 Menche you wouldn't be able to go into the ladder in order to climb it if it were
04:57 Warr1024 was that changed at all recently?
04:58 Warr1024 walkability is handled by the engine differently based on (I guess) drawtype.
04:58 Menche i don't think so
04:58 Warr1024 for instance, it seems that nodeboxes for rendering also double as hitboxes.
04:58 Menche torches also have walkable = false
04:58 Warr1024 I don't see anywhere else where the shape of stairs or slabs is defined.
04:58 Menche so you can go through them
04:59 Menche https://github.com/minetest/minetest_ga​me/blob/master/mods/stairs/init.lua#L17
04:59 Menche there
04:59 Menche slabs is below it
04:59 Warr1024 I thought it would be cool if nyancats emitted the occasional "nyan" sound at random volume so that I could find them sometimes, but now they're driving me nuts.
05:01 Menche we'd have to make our own "nyan" sound
05:01 Menche i think the textures were originally based on the video, but had to be changed due to licensing issues
05:01 Warr1024 Menche: there's a "vocals only" version of the nyan song that can be cropped down, with only moderately crappy results.
05:02 VanessaE the textures were changed over licensing concerns, yes
05:02 Warr1024 I thought they had been changed over pixel size concerns.
05:02 VanessaE but I don't think we'd need our own "nyan" sound, since the original "nyan cat" video got its sounds from someone else anyway
05:03 Warr1024 I made the cats emit sound very rarely, but over a moderately wide range, so you'd hear one, then sit around for a while waiting to hear another to track it down.
05:03 Warr1024 but the rainbows all emit sounds over short range, but much more frequently
05:03 VanessaE source of the nyan cat music/sounds:  http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm13455867
05:03 Warr1024 so when you're digging and you start to get close...
05:05 Warr1024 Speaking of nyancats, it seems that there should be a separate default_nyan_cat_bottom.png texture with the 4 feet showing.
05:05 scom joined #minetest
05:05 VanessaE probably so, yes
05:05 general3214 joined #minetest
05:05 scom `Hey :D
05:05 Warr1024 nevertheless, having a pretty much ultra-rare node is pretty cool.
05:06 Warr1024 I've only ever found 1 in the wild.
05:06 MinetestBot GIT: kwolekr commited to minetest/minetest: Add seed entry to world creation dialog 2e89209cf1 2013-11-04T21:00:01-08:00 http://git.io/gF1O9g
05:06 MinetestBot GIT: kwolekr commited to minetest/minetest: Accept hexadecimal and string values for seeds e46c527733 2013-11-04T20:59:26-08:00 http://git.io/prHHaA
05:06 Warr1024 when are footsteps sounds supposed to play?
05:07 Warr1024 I only hear them when I jump and land on a node, or cross from one type of node to another.
05:07 Warr1024 scratch that, it was when I was stepping off a nodebox.
05:07 kaeza hey ShiftyCake aka Aqua :P
05:08 us|0gb Seed entry? Nice.
05:09 us|0gb I wonder how it tells hexadecimal seeds from decimal seeds though. This warrants an investigation.
05:09 ShiftyCake Hey kaeza :D
05:09 Warr1024 us|0gb: I believe they settled on 0x notation.
05:10 ShadowNinja us|0gb: 0xffff or #ffff notation.
05:10 us|0gb Okay, ass long as it isn't checking for the precess of a-f. THat would be crazy.
05:10 us|0gb *as
05:11 Warr1024 that doesn't really work in practice.
05:11 us|0gb EXACTLY>
05:11 us|0gb .
05:11 us|0gb 1010 could be decimal or hexadecimal. Or even binary.
05:11 * ShiftyCake has no idea what Warr1024 and us|0gb are talking about.
05:11 Warr1024 We should accept unary input.
05:12 Warr1024 all values are represented by infinite strings of zeros.
05:12 us|0gb I'm not even convinced unary is a good idea, especially when dealing with computers.
05:12 Warr1024 you mean binary?
05:12 us|0gb ShiftyCake: We are discussing seed choosing.
05:12 us|0gb No, unary.
05:13 us|0gb Binary is fine.
05:13 Warr1024 there are no such things as unary numbers.
05:13 us|0gb THere is.
05:13 Warr1024 oh?  how would they work?
05:13 us|0gb It's just a stupid system.
05:13 ShadowNinja Easter egg in the latest commit. :-)
05:13 us|0gb Counting: 1 11 111 1111 11111 ... I did not make that up, either.
05:14 Warr1024 it'd have to be 0, actually.
05:14 Warr1024 if trinary has 0, 1, 2
05:14 us|0gb ShadowNinja: Already compiling.
05:14 Warr1024 and binary 0, 1
05:14 Warr1024 then unary should just be 0
05:14 us|0gb It should be, but isn't for some reason.
05:14 Warr1024 sounds like it's not a true base-1 system.
05:15 ShadowNinja us|0gb: Watch out, trees are messed up in latest git.
05:15 us|0gb Ha ha, messed up how? I've got to see this.
05:15 Warr1024 yeah, it looks like lua and git are gonna duke it out to see who gets to grow our trees.
05:15 Warr1024 us|0gb: bare trunks.
05:15 us|0gb Warr1024: That's what I thought too, but apperently it's legit.
05:15 VanessaE Warr1024: s/git/C++/
05:15 ShadowNinja us|0gb: Only trunks grow from saplings.
05:15 kaeza le git
05:16 us|0gb Oh, bare trunks? That's boring.
05:16 us|0gb Saplings? I thought saplings were removed.
05:16 Warr1024 they will be, when you grow them into tree trunks.
05:16 ShadowNinja No, growing was moved to Lua.
05:17 us|0gb Gone then, from my perspective. THis is just the engine.
05:17 us|0gb I haven't had time to add Lua trees yet.
05:17 us|0gb Or Lua saplings, rather.
05:17 Warr1024 us|0gb: it means that if you want big multi-node things to grow from individual nodes, it's now your responsibility to code it.
05:18 Warr1024 well, you could copy it from minetest_game, but apparently now isn't the best time :-)
05:18 us|0gb Exactly, and I haven't had time to code that yet.
05:18 VanessaE Warr1024: no, it just means C++ won't force saplings to grow...maybe you want to override their growth and turn them into Mese trees.
05:18 us|0gb Minetest_game is pointless for me. It's a great place to start, but I've moved on.
05:18 VanessaE this makes it possible to do from a routine mod :)
05:19 us|0gb I still need to try out treegen. But I haven't even finished defining default yet.
05:20 VanessaE hm, jungle saplings -> trees seem okay, btw.
05:20 Warr1024 are those available in a regular minetest_game world?
05:21 VanessaE yep
05:21 us|0gb Oh, hey. You wanted to kill regular tree growth in moretrees. Is that possible now?
05:21 Warr1024 I haven't found any, not sure how far I'd expect to need to explore
05:21 VanessaE us|0gb: in theory yes
05:21 us|0gb Warr1024: They don't generate by default.
05:21 Menche Warr1024, grow a sapling
05:21 Menche what does MSVC stand for?
05:21 us|0gb You need to pecify the v6_jungles mg_flag, or smething.
05:22 us|0gb MSVC is a proprietary compiler.
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05:22 Menche why is it in the version string of the build i just made?
05:22 us|0gb One that only runs on Windows, I think.
05:22 VanessaE some microsoft compiler.....but why does Linux show it?
05:22 VanessaE (I forget why)
05:22 Warr1024 probably refers to the fact that on the Windows platform they're trying to move away from msys or something.
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05:23 Menche why would a proprietary compiler's name be in the version string of my linux build?
05:23 VanessaE dunno
05:23 Warr1024 I guess the linux build probably shows it because the MSVC code must have gotten merged into master at some point...
05:23 VanessaE I assume it happens with all Linux builds
05:24 reactor Purist?
05:25 kahrl it's because the newest tag is called 0.4.7-MSVC
05:25 kahrl because it's 0.4.7 with fixes for MSVC
05:25 Warr1024 ah, trickly
05:25 Warr1024 s/l/
05:25 Warr1024 s/\/$/\/\// argh
05:26 Menche still think it's weird for that to show up on builds made by other compilers
05:27 Warr1024 it actually feels a bit weird that it's showing the most recent tag, instead of something like "pre-0.4.8"
05:27 Warr1024 I guess it makes sense for pulling versioning automatically out of git...
05:27 Menche what about calling it 0.4.8.dev?
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05:28 Warr1024 maybe
05:28 cy1 joined #minetest
05:28 Warr1024 the fact that it's not an official release is pretty important, though
05:28 Warr1024 at least as far as bugfixes go.
05:28 cy1 lua_pcall documentation lies... errfunc is called without any stack...
05:28 Menche early pre-release 0.4 builds were called 0.4.dev-[hash] iirc
05:29 Warr1024 yeah, but I like to stick the hash on the end of every build...
05:29 Menche i do too
05:29 Menche isn't that done automatically now?
05:29 Warr1024 I dunno, I thought it was only if you built from git.
05:30 Warr1024 if you build from a zip of the source, it just has the dev, no hash.
05:30 Menche i add the date too
05:30 Warr1024 mine is 0.4.7-MSVC-g06a5ece-dirty
05:30 VanessaE I just let mine put in whatever it wants :P
05:30 Warr1024 I guess that last bit indicates that my source doesn't exactly match git.
05:30 VanessaE vanessa@rainbird:~$ minetest --version
05:31 VanessaE Minetest 0.4.7-MSVC-357-g93f7852
05:31 Menche 0.4.7-20131105.2e89209
05:31 Warr1024 oh, that's an official build.
05:31 Warr1024 not a dev one
05:31 Menche hey, setting VERSION_EXTRA got rid of the MSVC
05:31 Menche ?
05:31 Menche huh?
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05:37 fossphur Hi just joining to say thanks for the help the other day, I just copied the folder I had of minetest working with the areas mod and took it in to school and now that copy doesn't crash on the school server
05:38 VanessaE good deal.
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05:46 cy1 man why couldn't lua be python...
05:47 cy1 "I'm a variable. I don't exist unless I'm getting in the way on the stack. You don't like it? Tough!"
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05:54 reactor OldCoder: could you try pasting the paste on your server?
05:54 OldCoder rHm?
05:54 OldCoder Pasting the paste?
05:54 reactor The scheme.
05:54 OldCoder Explain?
05:54 OldCoder Scheme?
05:55 OldCoder I have not made one
05:55 reactor worledit scheme eh
05:55 OldCoder Scheme?
05:55 reactor I have one.
05:55 reactor It's 1.4GB, though, and needs times more memory to be processed.
05:55 OldCoder Explain further; what are you requesting? Be specific as I am like that :P
05:55 OldCoder The server has 32GB of RAM
05:55 reactor well, that's how I port the map
05:55 OldCoder plus swap
05:55 OldCoder Explain further; what are you requesting? Be specific as I am like that :P
05:55 reactor I set position and load worledit schemes made by mcedit
05:55 OldCoder Yes
05:55 OldCoder Go on
05:56 reactor what is needed it pasting the big scheme at the corner of the map with minimal coordinates
05:56 reactor that is, its south-west corner
05:56 reactor but exactly 7 blocks below the lowest block there
05:56 reactor (the scheme is 7 blocks tall)
05:57 reactor that is, you go there, set //pos1 exactly there, and //load that scheme
05:57 reactor (it need be in $worldname/schems to be loaded)
05:58 OldCoder reactor, Ah
05:58 OldCoder you are requesting that I worldedit
05:58 OldCoder How about I give the world to *you* as admin
05:58 OldCoder And you do as you please with it?
05:58 OldCoder For as long as you wish?
05:58 reactor I have to go in 2 minutes.
05:58 OldCoder We will not proceed tonight
05:59 reactor mk
05:59 OldCoder I have not even prepared the textures mod
05:59 OldCoder But the world is obviously yours
05:59 OldCoder If you wish it
05:59 OldCoder
05:59 reactor Well, I also will be late in the evening, so I'll proceed right to bed
05:59 reactor mk
05:59 OldCoder Let's get it up and going then talk
05:59 OldCoder Good night!
05:59 OldCoder c u
05:59 OldCoder I can upload schemes as you wish
05:59 OldCoder Or give you FTP or some similar access
05:59 OldCoder
06:01 reactor it'lls be in pub/Pripyat/gnd
06:01 reactor s/lls/ll/
06:01 reactor Do you remember the server address, port?
06:06 reactor Just in case, I'll pm.
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06:29 us|0gb I'm torn. I want to build a game for Minetest from scratch, but at the same time, people expect certain things to be there. Things from minetest_game. Would it be better to build from scratch, and get something unique, or build from minetest_game, and get something more people will want to play?
06:29 cy1 ok I think I found all the pcalls and added an errfunc to them.
06:29 cy1 and it compiles.
06:29 cy1 us|0gb: Art has no boundaries.
06:30 us|0gb Art ... Hmm ....
06:30 cy1 Either way works.
06:33 cy1 and... now minetest won't load any mods b/c of my changes. feckin stack...
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06:34 cy1 ugh, off by one
06:35 us|0gb WHat are you doing with the stack?
06:36 cy1 us|0gb: None of the pcalls has an error handler, which is the only place you can get at the lua backtrace before it's trashed.
06:37 us|0gb Ah, so you're trying to find an error. That is frustrating.
06:37 cy1 No I'm trying to enable errors to be found.
06:38 VanessaE cy1: I think ShadowNinja was working on that too.......
06:38 us|0gb Enabling errors to be found .... Many will thank you for that.
06:39 cy1 Figured out what needs to be done, it's just hard to stick an error handler into the stack without messing up arguments, return values, etc
06:39 cy1 Be nicer if we could have a separate stack, or dare I say "references"
06:40 cy1 alas
06:40 * us|0gb heads off to the APA citation generator
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06:54 cy1 Meh I give up. I can't figure out why it's crashing.
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07:11 cy1 wow... I can't even push the changes. I just committed like normal to a side branch, and now even gitg segfaults trying to view it.
07:12 cy1 There it goes.
07:12 cy1 https://github.com/cyisfor/minetest/tree/traceback
07:12 us|0gb THis does not sound good.
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07:36 cy1 yeah I suck at git... I dunno I kind of lost interest halfway through. Working on other things.
07:46 VanessaE I suck at it just as bad.  took me probably half a dozen tries before I got #959 rebased properly.
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08:06 thexyz hey we should just use guids for uniqueness
08:06 smoke_fumus joined #minetest
08:07 VanessaE eh?
08:07 ae2a5b10-7265-4c oh shit 16 chars limit
08:08 ae2a5b10-7265-4c http://irc.minetest.ru/min​etest/2013-11-05#i_3414800
08:09 VanessaE eh?
08:10 us|0gb ae2a5b10-7265-4c: Great idea! I'll stick with my more readable FQDN though. Just as unique, but shorter.
08:12 VanessaE niht all
08:12 VanessaE brain failure
08:12 VanessaE night* :)
08:13 ae2a5b10-7265-4c okay :(
08:14 us|0gb Good night!
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08:17 Mf9LRkCI0At0TUO1 Okay ae2a5b10-7265-4c, you win.
08:18 cy1 ae2a5b10-7265-4c: cjdns, enough said
08:25 Mf9LRkCI0At0TUO1 msg NickServ identify us_0gb |kLRFHcO:S#MC5kuW5iqsyuGg
08:25 Mf9LRkCI0At0TUO1 Drats. That was my password. Now I have to change it.
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08:32 kaeza off to bed
08:32 kaeza night all
08:32 Mf9LRkCI0At0TUO1 Good night.
08:35 cy1 Man, I went and exercised and now I'm all depressed again. I just don't get it.
08:54 cy1 And watching cartoons makes me feel again. Weird.
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10:03 cy1 oops wrong channel
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11:29 JamesTait Good morning all; happy Guy Fawkes Day! :-D
11:33 werwerwer joined #minetest
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11:48 EvergreenTree https://forum.minetest.net/vie​wtopic.php?pid=117085#p117085
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12:30 megaf EvergreenTree: that post doest exists anymore
12:35 proller joined #minetest
12:37 EvergreenTree Megaf, Yes it does:    https://forum.minetest.net/v​iewtopic.php?id=7010&amp;p=2
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12:54 dafull97 hey guys
12:55 Megaf Hi dafull
12:55 dafull97 sorry Megaf i have bad news
12:55 Megaf cool
12:55 Megaf shoot =)
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13:18 EvergreenTree sfan5, complete your worK, minetest/builtin/mainmenu.lua told me so.   :P
13:18 OldCoder Good morning
13:19 OldCoder I fell asleep but will do something now. What mod would people recommend as the basis for a simple textures only mod?
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13:23 sfan5 EvergreenTree: no
13:24 sfan5 hi everyone
13:24 EvergreenTree Welcome back sfan.    :P
13:25 OldCoder sfan5, hello. See question above.
13:31 sfan5 OldCoder: above?
13:32 Tux[Qyou] joined #minetest
13:33 OldCoder OldCoder> I fell asleep but will do something now. What mod would people recommend as the basis for a simple textures only mod?
13:33 OldCoder sfan5, ^
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13:59 sfan5 OldCoder: textures only?
13:59 sfan5 what do you mean?
13:59 sfan5 a texture pack?
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14:08 OldCoder sfan5, reactor has made a large new world
14:09 OldCoder I need to add his textures to it. Is a texture pack the same thing as a textures-only mod?
14:09 sfan5[iPod] yes
14:09 sfan5[iPod] but you can't do texturepacks server-side so..
14:10 sfan5[iPod] create a folder and put an empty init.lua in there
14:10 sfan5[iPod] then you can just throw the textures in
14:11 sfan5[iPod] (in a 'textures' directory ofc)
14:18 OldCoder sfan5[iPod], but mods can be added server side
14:18 OldCoder I need only make a conventional mod limited to textures; is this true or false?
14:18 OldCoder I do not wish to create a _game solely due to textures
14:19 OldCoder Seems that a textures-only mod might work
14:41 sfan5 OldCoder: yes, that'll work
14:42 OldCoder sfan5, I figured and thanks... just looking for a simple example to clone. But I will nap briefly now.
14:42 OldCoder Is there a simple mod you would suggest that I adapt? I'd basically just replace the textures folder.
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14:54 sfan5 OldCoder: there is nothing to adapt
14:54 OldCoder Then any mod you can suggest will do
14:54 OldCoder But I am a bit under the weather and must nap an hour before going to work.
14:55 OldCoder Indicate a mod to start with if possible. The new world is very large and looks interesting.
14:55 OldCoder Zzz
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15:36 reactor I got home earlier.
15:36 reactor How's the science?
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15:38 rubenwardy Hi all
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15:49 VanessaE good morning all
15:49 rubenwardy Hi!
16:01 Mf9LRkCI0At0TUO1 Good morning!
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16:02 VanessaE hey AM, long time no see
16:02 thexyz any fun and reliable game I could use for a server?
16:02 AspireMint Hello
16:02 Mf9LRkCI0At0TUO1 Fun AND reliable? THat's a tough one.
16:02 reactor /dev/zero
16:03 thexyz alright, it shouldn't be very fun, just something different from minetest_game?
16:03 Mf9LRkCI0At0TUO1 Oh, that kind of game. I thought you meant an alternative to Minetest.
16:04 thexyz yeah, talking Minetest
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16:05 us|0gb Sorry, I've been out of the loop a while.
16:05 us|0gb Is VanessaE_game reliable? I hear it's fun.
16:06 thexyz eek
16:06 thexyz tried to google it
16:06 thexyz don't do this
16:06 thexyz anyway, where can I download it?
16:07 thexyz hm.. I think I should try Eden
16:07 us|0gb http://digitalaudioconcepts.com/vanessa​/hobbies/minetest/VanessaE_Game.tar.bz2
16:08 thexyz us|0gb: thanks
16:08 VanessaE oh MY
16:08 us|0gb No problem. You just need to know where to look for it, it's a little hidden.
16:08 thexyz yeah indeed
16:09 VanessaE next time use quotes :D
16:09 VanessaE of course, I also don't really advertise it as a separate game
16:09 us|0gb Quotes? For what?
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16:10 VanessaE us|0gb: to force google to group the two words together, then at least the results are all minetest-related :)
16:10 us|0gb Oh, I thought you meant here on IRC.
16:11 thexyz I'll start with Eden
16:11 VanessaE I *still* need a good name for it
16:11 reactor OldCoder: ping
16:11 thexyz let's see how well will it fry my cpu
16:11 VanessaE eden is good, but it focuses mostly on the landscape, not on gameplay
16:12 VanessaE (so it'll cook your CPU quite nicely :D )
16:12 * VanessaE hands thexyz a side of thermal paste with that fried CPU
16:12 reactor What is Eden?
16:13 VanessaE reactor: Mossmanikin/Neuromancer/Evergreen's game based around drygrasses, undergrowth modpack, plantlife, etc.
16:13 thexyz reactor: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=7027
16:13 VanessaE basically an attempt to create a completely natural-looking landscaoe
16:13 VanessaE landscape*
16:13 thexyz yeah, I think I don't need mobs
16:14 reactor Oh. I see.
16:14 reactor Eden would probably be good for Pripyat.
16:15 us|0gb I like the screenshots on that one.
16:15 thexyz it indeed looks awesome
16:15 thexyz not only on screenshots
16:16 VanessaE oh yes.
16:17 us|0gb It just serves to remind me that I'm not an artist, and I'll never pull off creating a good game on my own ....
16:19 thexyz > init.lua.pilz.lua
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16:28 dumdidum is there something like a sleep function for the luacontroller? i need a little time to wait between two port changes
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16:31 PilzAdam Hello everyone!
16:32 pitriss dumdidum: use interrupt..
16:34 dumdidum pitriss: i just need it once, not every few seconds
16:37 pitriss just call it when you need it.. interrupt is not repeated by default
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16:43 thexyz uh? what's this? why's water not flowing?
16:47 thexyz guys?
16:47 thexyz halp?
16:48 dumdidum pitriss: have it. thank you :)
16:49 pitriss dumdidum: yw
16:49 VanessaE thexyz: /set liquid_loop_max 10000
16:49 VanessaE that'll put it back to what it was in 0.4.7
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16:49 VanessaE but expect CPU spikes with lots of flowing water
16:49 thexyz lots?
16:50 VanessaE lots, say a sky fountain around 10m in diameter
16:50 Zeg9 hi
16:50 VanessaE hey zeg9
16:52 proller thexyz, fixed here https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/895
16:52 proller no spikes
16:52 proller no lag
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16:55 thexyz http://i.imgur.com/OR6wVYT.png
16:55 thexyz I'm surprised; it didn't break
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17:19 MinetestBot GIT: proler@github.com commited to minetest/minetest: Masterserver uptime fix 6f44492238 2013-11-05T09:18:37-08:00 http://git.io/evfY1w
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17:23 thexyz what's this shit
17:23 VanessaE ?
17:23 thexyz http://a.pomf.se/ede8r.mkv
17:25 VanessaE thexyz: long-standing bug,.
17:25 VanessaE I've seen that many times.
17:26 thexyz oh
17:26 thexyz it's okay then
17:26 thexyz I guess
17:26 thexyz I mean, it's better than that bug with player turning into a mouse
17:26 thexyz or hand detaching
17:26 VanessaE heh
17:27 VanessaE I've seen the floating hands, but not the mouse one :D
17:27 VanessaE (s/mouse/rat/ ?)
17:27 thexyz yeah, rat
17:27 thexyz 0.3.x, good ol' days
17:29 proller thexyz, lost respawn packet ?
17:30 thexyz dunno
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17:30 PilzAdam proller, if that is the case then why does Minetest allow dead players to move?
17:31 thexyz no one is playing
17:31 proller its ok, when you falling, hit block. and contunue falling dead
17:31 proller very frequent on sky server
17:32 proller server must ignore user input while not respawned
17:32 PilzAdam the server doesnt know if the pos changing is from falling or user input, though
17:35 EvergreenTree Hey people
17:36 PilzAdam hello Mr. Tree
17:36 proller maybe make death packet reliable ?if not already
17:37 VanessaE it's all EvergreenTree's fault anyway
17:41 ruskie http://aseigo.blogspot.com/2013/11/o​n-introducing-new-ideas-to-free.html
17:41 Calinou "Martin Gräßlin said..." seems legit :P
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17:47 dafull97 VanessaE, you here??
17:47 VanessaE yes
17:48 dafull97 that olimexo board, can i put ubuntu server on it??
17:49 dafull97 refering to this on... https://www.olimex.com/Products/OLinuXino/A​20/A20-OLinuXino-MICRO/open-source-hardware
17:49 VanessaE I would assume so, with a name like oLINUXino
17:49 VanessaE probably need the netbook remix
17:49 VanessaE as that's ARM-based also I think
17:50 dafull97 so prob?
17:56 OldCoder reactor pong but you have moved along
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18:01 EvergreenTree VanessaE, what did I do now?   :P
18:04 * ShadowNinja has gotten so used to <esc>:wq that he tries to use that in other texteditors and in other apps like alsamixer.
18:12 VanessaE EvergreenTree: just kidding :)
18:13 dafull97 so it prob work VanessaE?
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18:17 EvergreenTree I figured as much
18:18 VanessaE dafull97: maybe.  It's a crapshoot - try it and see :)
18:18 EvergreenTree Oh, and hi there Mr. Adam
18:18 VanessaE if it don't work, start hacking until it does :D
18:18 dafull97 okk, :)
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18:19 * Jordach notices kaeza forked LuaTerminal
18:20 Jordach !op
18:20 Topic for #minetest is now Website: http://minetest.net |  Rules: be patient, respect other users, here and in other channels | Core Devs: #minetest-dev | Servers: http://minetest.net/servers | IRC Logs: http://irc.minetest.ru/minetest/
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18:35 Jordach http://i.imgur.com/bhksaS4.png
18:35 Jordach this also happens to be the most face and triangle heavy :P
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18:39 Jordach dafuq97
18:39 dafull97 joined #minetest
18:39 dafull97 hey all im back
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19:16 EvergreenTree Jordach, that looks pretty cool
19:17 EvergreenTree sfan5, Run your wrongly formatted mod topic bot again
19:17 EvergreenTree The list really needs an update
19:31 proller joined #minetest
19:36 dumdidum PilzAdam: your tnt mod is great. especially with the item_drop mod :D
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19:47 OldCoder Is anybody able to suggest a mod that I can base a textures only mod on?
19:48 OldCoder This is for reactor's new and large world
19:54 ShadowNinja OldCoder: Base on? Can't you just mkdir -p mods/texturemod/textures?
19:55 OldCoder ShadowNinja, are you referring to server-wide? This is world specific
19:55 OldCoder I have been through this with others... Minor issue but an issue regardless...
19:55 OldCoder Need to have a way to load textures server-side on a per world basis
19:55 OldCoder The only way to do this seems to be a textures mod
19:55 ShadowNinja OldCoder: Then make it in worldmods. You might also have to make a empty init.lua file.
19:55 OldCoder Correct?
19:56 OldCoder That is what I am asking for... a mod to base this on
19:56 OldCoder Is there a simple textures only mod?
19:56 OldCoder One that is known to work
19:56 OldCoder To save me debug time
19:56 ShadowNinja No, but you will re replacing everything in the mod but the directory structure...
19:56 OldCoder That is fine
19:56 ShadowNinja be*
19:56 OldCoder And the init.lua file; correct?
19:57 OldCoder I do not possess the time to do this from scratch
19:57 OldCoder If there is a textures only mod I wish to look at it
19:57 ShadowNinja Yes, you just need a "textures" folder and a empty "init.lua" file in the mod folder.
19:57 OldCoder Plus a depends file which will presumably say default
19:57 sfan5 no
19:57 sfan5 you don't need one
19:58 ShadowNinja Time? It takes a milisecond to run mkdir textures && touch init.lua
19:58 OldCoder Is there an example that I may start with? I am most limited with time
19:58 OldCoder That is not the issue
19:58 OldCoder I lack the time to debug and wish to start with an existing mod. Patience is requested. The question has been asked and will not be repeated.
19:58 sfan5 ????
19:58 OldCoder I am at work and there is much to do
19:58 sfan5 what are you trying to achieve?
19:58 sfan5 exactly
19:58 OldCoder A textures only mod
19:58 sfan5 ok
19:59 OldCoder That I may give you a large new world
19:59 OldCoder Right now
19:59 sfan5 mkdir -p <world>/worldmods/tex/textures && touch <world>/worldmods/tex/init.lua
19:59 ShadowNinja All you need to do is run "mkdir mymod && cd mymod && mkdir textures && touch init.lua" and then put your textures in the textures folder.
19:59 sfan5 then copy them into <world>/worldmods/tex/textures
19:59 sfan5 there is nothung
19:59 * OldCoder sighs :-)
19:59 sfan5 ..nothing that can go wrong
19:59 OldCoder Heh
19:59 * OldCoder chuckles IRL
20:00 sfan5 and there is nothing you can base on
20:00 OldCoder Uh... don't tempt the gods they love it
20:00 OldCoder <sfan5> ..nothing that can go wrong
20:00 OldCoder I will look through the existing mods myself, then
20:00 * sfan5 is confused
20:00 OldCoder
20:00 sfan5 2 people just told you how it can be done...
20:01 OldCoder sfan5, I have been doing this since before you were born... if my time is limited there is a procedure I follow when uncertain. I mean no disrespect when I say this... something can *always* go wrong.
20:01 OldCoder :-)
20:01 OldCoder And believe me... ATM my time is limited
20:01 sfan5 yeah, but why would you want to look at existing mods?
20:02 OldCoder To get this right... I have taken enough of your time; thanks
20:02 sfan5 I have enough time
20:02 OldCoder That is a blessing
20:02 OldCoder Appreciate time
20:05 PilzAdam bye
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20:21 Jordach OldCoder, make an empty init.lua and then a single line comment
20:21 Jordach eg, --textures for minetest (this is here so minetest doesn't literally shit itself)
20:21 OldCoder Fine
20:21 OldCoder Literally may be exaggerated in this context
20:21 Jordach i've used that in my own gamemode
20:21 OldCoder But the point is clear
20:22 OldCoder this goes in a folder named bacon that goes in a folder named worldmods that goes in the same folder as world.mt. Correct?
20:22 sfan5 yes
20:23 dinner joined #minetest
20:24 dinner is this fixable, or is my sp game screwed? It doesn't seem to save my progress. I'll build, then exit the game and load it. everything i built is gone, but i think the blocks i used are still missing.
20:25 VanessaE are you running it from within the zip?
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20:25 dinner no, im on ubuntu
20:25 VanessaE check the permissions of your minetest folder, make sure you have write access
20:26 BlockMen hi everyone
20:26 dinner okay, thank you
20:26 VanessaE I've run into this once before.  Another idea, and this may seem really weird:  /clearobjects
20:26 dinner what does that do?
20:26 VanessaE I've had a map fail to save until I ran that command, which re-processes the whole map
20:26 VanessaE normally it just deletes all entities
20:26 VanessaE brb
20:26 dinner i see
20:28 OldCoder VanessaE, Does mesecons command block still cause problems? Pripyat World apparently needs it
20:28 Jordach dinner, it could be low disk space, try making sure that there might be enough room for future writes
20:29 ShadowNinja OldCoder: The command block can be abused(eg, chat flooding). You can remove the load_mod_mesecons_commandblock = true line from world.mt if it causes issues.
20:30 ShadowNinja OldCoder: But it is only available in creative.
20:31 OldCoder ShadowNinja, so it is probably not essential for his world. OK, thanks. BTW do you have current links for firearms and nether? He uses those.
20:32 OldCoder Ah, and obsidian. Googling now.
20:32 ShadowNinja OldCoder: https://github.com/kaeza/minetest-firearms there are multiple nether mods, and I wouldn't recommend any of them in their current state.
20:33 ShadowNinja PilzAdam's LVM version needs real mapgen, and the old one is extremely slow.
20:33 OldCoder So he may need to do without. And obsidian looks broken.
20:34 OldCoder Hmm... but his world may use it. Did anybody produce a version of obsidian with the patch from that thread included?
20:34 OldCoder https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=1077
20:34 Jordach OldCoder, obsidian is in default minetest game
20:34 OldCoder Ah
20:35 OldCoder So can be omitted thank you
20:35 OldCoder Down to just firearms then if nether is deprecated
20:35 OldCoder Working on it briefly
20:41 OldCoder I am going to replace craft guide in Zeg9's world Zegaton with his craft guide. He indicates it is superior but may produce unknown blocks elsewhere. Are there opinions on using his craft guide elsewhere?
20:42 Zeg9 unknown blocks are only due to the removal of the other craft guide mod
20:43 Zeg9 you can still keep it, they aren't conflicting
20:44 Zeg9 OldCoder,^
20:45 OldCoder Zeg9, so both are useful together?
20:45 OldCoder Good
20:45 Zeg9 Not really, but the other can be kept to not break the worlds
20:45 Zeg9 or you could alias its nodes to those from computers mod
20:45 dinner can't be disc space, thanks though
20:50 OldCoder Should I cache via curl any file types but ogg and png? I see no jpg and I heard that .x is not cacheable
20:50 OldCoder s/cache/transmit/
20:52 MinetestBot GIT: proler@github.com commited to minetest/minetest: Correct useragent in http queries 8903c68460 2013-11-05T12:50:32-08:00 http://git.io/PZ9TVQ
20:52 Wuzzy joined #minetest
20:58 OldCoder To speed up startup should I curl anything besides ogg and png?
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21:00 proller find -L /minetest/games/sky/mods \( -name "*.png" -or -name "*.ogg" -or -name "*.b3d" -or -name "*.x" \) -exec ln -s {} /html/data/ \;
21:00 OldCoder proller, So add b3d and x files? Thank you
21:01 OldCoder Appreciated
21:01 sfan5 OldCoder: what about this? https://gist.github.com/sfan5/6351560
21:01 OldCoder R
21:01 sfan5 also creates an .mts index file which i
21:01 sfan5 ..
21:01 sfan5 actually
21:01 sfan5 that may not be useful for you at all
21:01 sfan5 forget it
21:01 OldCoder Looks good
21:01 OldCoder For other purposes
21:01 OldCoder I am nearly all set
21:02 OldCoder Need to work but Pripyat world should be in LevelDB format before reactor wakes up
21:02 OldCoder (he is in Russia)
21:02 OldCoder I hope it works, he put effort into it and it seems large
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21:09 dafull97 ok is "advertizing" allowed in here? it is my irc channel
21:09 dafull97 it is all about technolegy...
21:10 proller no.
21:10 dafull97 anyway VanessaE, you know?
21:10 dafull97 ohh, ok...
21:13 Menche joined #minetest
21:13 OldCoder Hmm. Looks like I was using zcg before renamed to craft_guide. I will use both his and the standard. Does anybody have the correct link to the standard one?
21:14 OldCoder Menche, is Desert Uses current? Should I use it and/or update it?
21:14 Menche it was recently updated to use the new stone brick
21:14 OldCoder Menche, Link for current and correct version?
21:14 Menche i'll have a closer look at it
21:14 OldCoder k
21:15 Menche http://gitorious.org/minete​st_mods_menche/desert_uses
21:15 OldCoder Thank you. Do you happen to know where the old official craft guide is?
21:15 Menche huh, i thought i merged that pull request
21:16 Menche official craft guide? i don't know what that is.
21:16 OldCoder nvm and t y
21:16 OldCoder shall I wait to download Desert Uses?
21:16 Menche cgmr?
21:16 OldCoder cgmr?
21:16 Menche craft guide mod revived or something similar to that
21:17 Menche renewed
21:17 Menche this one? https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=5076
21:17 OldCoder R
21:18 OldCoder Did not know about that one; thanks. Zeg9 will cgmr work with zcg?
21:18 Menche oops, it was the desert_uses on github that got the pull request
21:18 ShadowNinja There is no official craft guide, and the best one I know of is the UI one.
21:19 * Menche should stop juggling multiple git hosts
21:19 ShadowNinja Use GitHub. :-)
21:19 OldCoder ShadowNinja, Thank you. Menche which Desert Uses should I Use?
21:20 Menche the one on Github has stone brick
21:20 EvergreenTree joined #minetest
21:20 Menche i'll probably push those to gitorious too later
21:20 OldCoder Menche, link?
21:20 Menche https://github.com/Menche/desert_uses
21:21 OldCoder ty
21:21 EvergreenTree Just popping in really quickly to see what's going on
21:21 EvergreenTree I have really been short on time lately
21:23 * Zeg9 gotta go
21:23 Zeg9 Bye!
21:23 Calinou bye Zeg9
21:24 Menche i should probably change the desert sandstone texture. desert sand isn't carrot orange anymore.
21:26 Menche oh, and the desert cobble too
21:27 OldCoder Is money2 compatible with money and safe to use?
21:28 EvergreenTree This guy:   https://forum.minetest.net/vie​wtopic.php?pid=117153#p117153
21:28 OldCoder R
21:29 OldCoder Does anybody know about money2?
21:32 OldCoder bbiab
21:42 EvergreenTree gotta go
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21:49 OldCoder It was advised that I turn off mobf but many animals need it; so back on
22:01 Menche OldCoder, actually I just reverted that pull on github. it redefines something that didn't have to be.
22:01 Menche i'm just going to update the textures.
22:02 OldCoder Menche, Indicate when I should download again
22:02 Menche i'll probably be using the gitorious repo as the main one
22:03 Menche http://gitorious.org/minete​st_mods_menche/desert_uses
22:03 OldCoder Should I download that now?
22:03 Menche not yet
22:03 Menche the sandstone textures are still tinted like the older desert sand
22:04 Menche and the cobble texture is also old
22:05 dafull97 Megaf, you here?
22:12 dinner joined #minetest
22:13 dinner Hi, I found out i need to delete or use an older "map_meta.txt" but I can't find out where that file is saved on ubuntu
22:13 OldCoder Making final decisions before starting new world. Does anybody know about money2, vendor, or modf?
22:13 OldCoder dinner, Is it a run in place copy of MT or not?
22:14 dinner uh, I don't know. I installed it with the terminal command
22:14 Menche from the repo?
22:14 Menche or compiled
22:14 OldCoder sounds like repo
22:14 Menche what command
22:14 dinner shoot, i dont know
22:14 dinner im a noob at ubunut
22:14 dinner ubuntu
22:15 Menche how do you run minetest?
22:16 dinner i can just run it from the terminal or the dash
22:16 Menche probably from the repo then
22:16 Menche that file should be in ~/.minetest/worlds/(the world name)/
22:19 OldCoder dinner, do this:
22:19 Gethiox4 joined #minetest
22:19 OldCoder cd && ls .minetest/worlds/
22:19 OldCoder What does that line do?
22:20 STHGOM joined #minetest
22:21 dinner yes that shows the worlds i have saved
22:24 OldCoder dinner, cd into the appropriate folder
22:25 OldCoder which world are you attempting to fix?
22:25 OldCoder
22:25 OldCoder and other people:
22:25 OldCoder error:...opt/minetest047/share/mi​netest/builtin/serialize.lua:168:
22:25 OldCoder attempt to index local 'sdata' (a nil value)
22:25 OldCoder Any suggestions about that? ^
22:26 OldCoder Might be mob related
22:26 OldCoder Comment on above and a new world may be born ^
22:26 OldCoder bbiab
22:27 OldCoder mobf problem? But if I disable mobf will I lose most animals?
22:27 OldCoder
22:28 dinner the world is called "starting all over" stupid name i made when i started over
22:31 OldCoder dinner, do this
22:31 OldCoder cd && cd .minetest/worlds/starting* && pwd
22:31 Menche btw, i just pushed those texture updates to both of my git repos
22:31 OldCoder What is printed?
22:31 OldCoder Menche, so I should update? Thank you
22:31 Menche yeah
22:31 ShadowBot joined #minetest
22:31 OldCoder Will do immediately
22:32 OldCoder Does anybody here know about the mobf or serialize issue I described above?
22:35 dinner okay, i found it. Thanks for the help
22:38 OldCoder k good luck
22:52 BlockMen5233 joined #minetest
22:54 * OldCoder hopes to speak to somebody about mobf and serialize
22:55 mrtux joined #minetest
22:56 OldCoder mrtux, Hello
23:01 OldCoder joined #minetest
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23:21 dafull97-afk goin afk
23:36 paramat joined #minetest
23:47 Megaf VanessaE: 14:57:30: ERROR[main]: ERROR: An unhandled exception occurred: ServerError: LuaError: error: .../bin/../games/minetest_game/m​ods/homedecor/signs_lib.lua:215: attempt to index local 'text' (a nil value)
23:47 paramat hi :) ive searched github, the forum and the documents for an answer to this but with no luck: once i have 0.4.8 stable how would i make "air" nodes drownable, for my space mods, is it even possible? if not it perhaps it should be, otherwise i will have to fill everything with a custom drowning 'vacuum' node
23:47 * VanessaE looks..
23:47 roboman2444 joined #minetest
23:48 Megaf not uncommon to get crashed from homedecor
23:49 paramat (correction: ... if not perhaps it should be ...
23:49 Megaf i hate my life
23:49 VanessaE Megaf: I've never had that crash before.  did you do anything special to cause it?
23:50 Megaf http://paste.debian.net/64209/
23:50 VanessaE ah
23:51 VanessaE kaeza: you missed one :)
23:52 Megaf VanessaE: perhaps it crashes when people use things like ç ã or pe
23:52 Megaf é
23:52 Megaf like "maçã"
23:52 Megaf that mean apple
23:52 VanessaE that may be
23:52 Megaf means*
23:53 VanessaE megaf, try pulling now
23:53 VanessaE see if that fixes it
23:54 stormchaser3000 joined #minetest
23:54 stormchaser3000 hi
23:54 VanessaE hi storm
23:58 kaeza oh
23:58 kaeza it does not let me write 'ç'
23:58 OldCoder error:...opt/minetest047/share/mi​netest/builtin/serialize.lua:168:
23:58 OldCoder attempt to index local 'sdata' (a nil value)
23:58 OldCoder Almost done with Pripyat world
23:58 OldCoder But mobf is doing that. Is it important?

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