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IRC log for #minetest, 2013-08-17

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Time Nick Message
00:00 sdzen left #minetest
00:09 SegFault22 Send player damage to all clients? What's he trying to do?...
00:13 Pavitra joined #minetest
00:14 Pavitra Are furnaces indestructible?
00:15 PilzAdam Pavitra, no, but you cant break them if they have items in them
00:16 VanessaE hi all.
00:16 NekoGloop SegFault22, maybe health bars on enemy players?
00:17 NekoGloop Or, at least, the ability to have that.
00:17 Pavitra left #minetest
00:17 Pavitra joined #minetest
00:18 SegFault22 hmm...
00:18 SegFault22 that may be useful
00:20 aldobr joined #minetest
00:21 aldobr hi all
00:21 SegFault22 hi
00:22 SegFault22 er,... Hello
00:23 aldobr oh slow night
00:23 Pavitra When I try to break a chest, I get the cracking animation and particles flying and a bumping noise, and the chest disappears. If the chest had things in it, it immediately reappears with its contents intact. But when I try to break a furnace, regardless of whether it has anything in it, I don't get the animation or particles or sound or disappearing, even though my hand/tool is swinging at it.
00:24 PilzAdam Pavitra, you need at least a stone pickaxe IIRC
00:24 Pavitra That's probably it.
00:27 Pavitra Yes, that was it. Some clearer feedback about that would be nice; I'd assumed it was a bug.
00:45 VanessaE joined #minetest
00:45 VanessaE someone remind me again why linux gets so brain-dead-stupid when a drive starts flaking out?
00:46 VanessaE a non-boot/non-system drive, yet
00:46 NekoGloop because linux
00:47 VanessaE that about sums it up
00:47 NekoGloop yep
00:47 PilzAdam VanessaE, I see you like your new ssd? :-p
00:48 VanessaE PilzAdam: actually, in this case I'm dealing with a failing spinning rust drive.  fortunately the replacement arrived today, so now I'm just copying my data off before the drive totally shits itself
00:48 VanessaE (and yes, I have backups too)
00:49 Pavitra I don't see any difference when toggling f4. What do "camera updates" do?
00:49 PilzAdam Pavitra, basically updating what mapblocks are visible
00:49 Pavitra ah
00:50 PilzAdam so, if you disable it and turn arround 180° then you will see lots of not loaded blocks
00:55 SegFault22 joined #minetest
00:55 Peacock vanessae you had two drive fail?
00:55 VanessaE Peacock: yeah
00:55 Peacock jesus
00:55 VanessaE first the spinning rust started to crap out but I didn't discover that failure until the SSD died
00:56 VanessaE both have been replaced already, just moving the files over
00:56 Peacock makes ya wonder what causes these failures, especially the SSD wasn't that old
00:57 VanessaE oh who the hell knows
00:57 VanessaE wrong end of the bathtub curve
00:57 NekoGloop Maybe a cat got in the computer
00:58 Peacock ext4, post-procesing, who knows lol but i know errors are cropping up on my other drives too
00:58 PilzAdam maybe a cat got out of the computer
00:59 Peacock heck maybe even watching too much YT as all that crap gets written to disk lol
00:59 NekoGloop Also WHERE ARE MY KITTENS?! :<
00:59 VanessaE fortunately, the drive being copied over is a fairly idle drive most of the time anyway so it's not like anything's likely to be corrupted anyway
00:59 VanessaE NekoGloop: OldCoder still has some in his pile
00:59 NekoGloop VanessaE, read the topic~ :3
00:59 PilzAdam the day is already over
00:59 VanessaE *looks*
00:59 VanessaE haha
00:59 Peacock either way when the last one died i decided id use externals for long-term storage
00:59 * VanessaE throws kittens at NekoGloop
00:59 OldCoder Hi
00:59 PilzAdam !op
01:00 OldCoder Wait
01:00 Topic for #minetest is now http://minetest.net | NEWS: Minetest 0.4.7 released | RULES: be patient, respect other users, here and in other channels | CORE DEVS: #minetest-dev | SERVERS: http://minetest.net/servers | IRC LOGS: http://irc.minetest.ru/minetest/ | WIKI: http://wiki.minetest.net | Today: Throw-ponies-at-NekoGloop-day
01:00 PilzAdam !deop
01:00 * OldCoder is entitled to give away kittens?
01:00 NekoGloop ack
01:00 VanessaE oh, oops
01:00 Peacock and cheap small drives for /
01:00 OldCoder Change it back
01:00 * VanessaE throws ponies at NekoGloop
01:00 * PilzAdam throws Derpy Hooves at NekoGloop
01:00 * OldCoder will give away the kittens
01:00 * NekoGloop shoots it with a railgun
01:00 * Peacock throws a mercedes and sauna at NekoGloop
01:00 OldCoder That does not look like a pony
01:00 Peacock to go with the ponie
01:01 Peacock can any say if The Silence (2013) is any good?
01:01 Peacock *anyone
01:01 VanessaE Peacock: now it's that Mushkin Chronos Enhanced for / and an Hitachi for /status
01:01 Vazon ok the server is up but haveing problems with the unified inventory
01:02 Peacock may just end up watching Primer again, 3 times and i still havent figured out the whole timeline lol
01:02 VanessaE Vazon: what kind of problem?
01:02 Vazon It just doesnt show
01:02 VanessaE er for /storage I mean
01:03 VanessaE 120GB and 750GB, respectively.
01:03 VanessaE a reasonable amount of storage, a bit tiny compared to some folks these days though :)
01:03 SegFault22 Is it socially accepted to tell that I am going to make a server, but need to buy better hardware for it to run, and set up donations system, then buy the hardware with the donation money?
01:03 SegFault22 For the server?
01:03 VanessaE SegFault22: why not?  if people like your server enough to donate a bit of cash, so beit
01:03 VanessaE be it*
01:04 SegFault22 Well, the problem is, there isn't a server yet, and I need better hardware to get a server to work.
01:04 VanessaE what kind of hardware do you have?
01:04 VanessaE it really doesn't take that much to run a serve
01:04 VanessaE server*
01:05 SegFault22 Dell dimension C521, 2 GB RAM,  AMD Athlon X2 processor, etc etc etc...
01:05 VanessaE 20GB of storage (your OS, a full suite of apps, plus minetest), 2-3 GHz dual core, integrated graphics should be sufficient
01:05 VanessaE what you have is fine for a server.
01:06 VanessaE less if you don't use any really heavy mods like moretrees or nether
01:08 SegFault22 10 mbps Download speed, 0.60 (???) Upload speed -.-
01:08 VanessaE it's the client that really needs the higher-end hardware, particularly if you use high resolution textures or some of the various graphic enhancements
01:08 VanessaE that's fine
01:08 SegFault22 I see.
01:08 VanessaE I'm on 30/3 Mbps here, you don't need a whole gob of upstream, especially if you have a remote_media server.
01:09 SegFault22 Well, another issue is security - I use Windows...
01:09 VanessaE (if you want, btw, you can point to http://digitalaudioconcepts.com/vanessa/hobbies/minetest/media_for_curl_server/ )
01:09 VanessaE (I don't mind if others reference my server for their media, since I have a large quantity of it stored there)
01:10 SegFault22 Cool.
01:10 VanessaE Well Windows is its own issue to deal with of course
01:11 PilzAdam format C: && apt-get install ubuntu-server
01:11 SegFault22 Well, if anything were to ''happen'' to the server, I would no longer be able to be connected any more - it is currently the only computer I have/can use
01:11 VanessaE well same here
01:11 VanessaE I run my server from my home PC
01:12 SegFault22 Would it be okay to, say, run the server on a PC with an old graphics card?
01:12 VanessaE sure
01:12 VanessaE graphics don't matter to a server
01:12 SegFault22 Cool! I'll see what I can do.
01:12 VanessaE you could run that thing off an old Trident if you wanted :)
01:13 VanessaE just don't expect to run the client on it :D
01:13 SegFault22 Well, thank you for the information.
01:13 SegFault22 This  is very helpful
01:14 VanessaE just make sure you have a reasonably fast disk and plenty of free space
01:15 * NekoGloop curls up in OldCoder's lap
01:15 VanessaE awww
01:15 OldCoder Awww
01:15 * OldCoder gingerly pats the kitty
01:15 * NekoGloop purrs~
01:16 * PilzAdam throws a fishy at NekoGloop
01:16 * NekoGloop noms the fishy~ :3
01:16 * PilzAdam throws Rainbow Dash at NekoGloop
01:16 Peacock VanessaE> you could run that thing off an old Trident if you wanted :)
01:16 Peacock missiles or?
01:16 * NekoGloop eats the horse
01:16 PilzAdam *pony
01:17 Peacock the only trident i know is the ones they kept mentioning on yes minster lol
01:17 NekoGloop *horse
01:17 PilzAdam *PONY
01:17 SegFault22 Is there a way for the Console logs to be output to a file regularly? I want to have record of everything that happens when I am offline.
01:17 NekoGloop *HORSE
01:18 VanessaE Peacock: as in this:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trident_Microsystems
01:18 PilzAdam SegFault22, its written to debug.txt
01:18 PilzAdam NekoGloop, ************************POOOOOOOONYYYYYYY**************
01:18 Peacock hm, so it's a gum, a missile and a hard drive lol versatile name
01:18 NekoGloop *derp
01:18 VanessaE Peacock: those and "Savage S3" cards are generally seen as about the lowest-end worst piece of shit you can go with and still get at least SVGA resolutions :)
01:19 SegFault22 That's good.
01:19 Peacock NekoGloop if you want horsemeat just buy dutch beef burgers in the UK XD
01:19 parabyte joined #minetest
01:19 Peacock oh its a graphics card
01:20 VanessaE yeah
01:20 Peacock yeah i think i once fixed a system that had one of those
01:20 Peacock i knew the name rang a bell but i couldn't remember from where lol
01:25 Vazon so i tryed the technic mod so now none of my mods work thank you so much technic mod i love you so much
01:25 VanessaE Vazon: you obviously did something wrong, so let's see the output of your debug.txt
01:25 VanessaE via pastebin
01:25 Vazon ok
01:25 * VanessaE runs technic without any problems.
01:26 * PilzAdam grumbles something about technich sucks
01:26 PilzAdam *technic
01:26 VanessaE why?
01:27 PilzAdam it violates the voxel idea and doesnt fit the style of Minetest
01:27 VanessaE how so?
01:27 VanessaE I can't think of anything in technic that's not boxy
01:27 PilzAdam voxel != boxy
01:27 Peacock voxels always cry rape
01:27 VanessaE well then complain to c55 for adding nodeboxes :P
01:27 Vazon omg my debug is so big
01:28 VanessaE Vazon: you only need to pastebin the last 50-100 lines
01:28 PilzAdam the default minetest_game is settled in a somewhat midle-age-ish scenario
01:28 VanessaE (depending on how much excess spew is in your log after the error)
01:28 Peacock minetest classic doesn't have nodeboxes
01:28 VanessaE PilzAdam: not really.  I talked with c55 about that
01:28 Vazon ok
01:28 VanessaE it's more like early 1900's or thereabouts
01:29 PilzAdam its definitely before the industrial revolution
01:29 kahrl rails before the industrial revolution?
01:29 PilzAdam also what qualifies c55 to say how I see minetest?
01:29 VanessaE screwdrivers before the industrial rev?
01:29 Vazon http://pastebin.com/NpizE8hP
01:29 PilzAdam VanessaE, yea, screwdrivers suck, lets remove them
01:30 Vazon there
01:30 VanessaE mmmmh
01:30 Vazon I took them out of my server
01:30 VanessaE Vazon: ok that's easy to fix
01:30 kahrl minetest_game is set at a time when rails were invented but trains were not
01:30 Vazon Wait you already no whats wrong?
01:30 VanessaE follow the path down to the lowest member that's missing, which looks like pipeworks.
01:30 PilzAdam VanessaE, btw, we had exactly this discussion about merging screwdrivers, and people said they exist since the ~1500 ;-)
01:30 VanessaE Vazon: know*
01:31 Vazon Ok then how do i fix it and still have the technic mod on?
01:31 Peacock whats the point of crafting if the game isn't supposed to evolve over time?
01:31 VanessaE Vazon: install the mods it is complaining about.
01:31 VanessaE in this case, pipeworks, moreblocks, and moretrees (which needs plants_lib)
01:32 Vazon i did i have the mesecons more trees and pipeworks
01:32 VanessaE you didn't enable them
01:32 VanessaE (the errors at line 24 of your paste are unrelated, by the way)
01:32 SegFault22 What mods make cacti/papyrus grow?
01:32 VanessaE (you need to rename that mod to lrfurn, not livingroom)
01:32 PilzAdam SegFault22, default
01:32 Vazon O ok
01:33 Vazon Idk what to name mods
01:33 VanessaE Vazon: also, if you have aaa_recipeshook, you've got an old version of technic
01:33 VanessaE it hasn't needed that submodule in forever
01:33 PilzAdam Vazon, https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=6450
01:34 VanessaE Vazon: each of the mods' authors will usually tell you in the first post of the forum thread for the mod in question.
01:34 Vazon Ok thanks Pils
01:34 NekoGloop Pills
01:35 * PilzAdam throws a pony at NekoGloop
01:35 kahrl Skål!
01:35 PilzAdam (Im out of names)
01:35 Vazon Hay can i have a pony?
01:35 * NekoGloop shoots it with a railgun
01:35 Vazon Xd
01:35 * MinetestBot revives it
01:35 SegFault22 Oh, okay
01:35 NekoGloop YOUR BOT POWERS ARE NOT WELCOME HERE!
01:36 Peacock love the railgun in wofenstein lol
01:36 SegFault22 Thank you for the information. WHen did they change it?
01:36 PilzAdam SegFault22, "they"?
01:36 Peacock http://t.qkme.me/3svyaf.jpg
01:36 SegFault22 they, being the lead developers
01:36 VanessaE Vazon: the proper way to handle mods is to install them and enable them one at a time.   Look at your debug.txt and see if there's a complaint about unsatisfied dependencies, like you have in that paste ^^^^.  Satisfy those by installing those mods next.  work your way back up to the mod that complained until all dependencies have been satisfied.
01:36 Peacock "they" the reverse vampires, obviously
01:36 Vazon ok
01:36 Peacock in conjunction with secret government agents working for the UFOs
01:36 PilzAdam kahrl, http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sk%C3%A5l_International ?
01:38 kahrl PilzAdam, nope just toasting because I thought we were having Pils
01:38 PilzAdam SegFault22, its there since 0.4.6
01:38 Peacock Pilsbury?
01:38 SegFault22 Who added it?
01:38 PilzAdam /me
01:38 SegFault22 Cool.
01:39 Vazon Ok VanessaE i when back but the UI still doent work so what is the newer version
01:40 VanessaE one thing at a time
01:40 VanessaE get the other stuff working properly first.
01:40 Vazon Ok
01:40 VanessaE rip unified inventory and technic out of these completely.
01:40 PilzAdam kahrl, why not: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trinkspruch#Der_lyrische_Trinkspruch ? ;-)
01:40 VanessaE delete the copies you have
01:40 Vazon ok
01:41 Peacock dispose of the witnesses
01:41 Vazon There done
01:41 Peacock gooood
01:41 kahrl PilzAdam, dunno if MinetestBot would approve of that ;)
01:42 PilzAdam ShadowBot kicks for flood
01:42 Vazon Ok what next VanessaE
01:45 Peacock then you throw a pony
01:45 VanessaE re-download only technic
01:45 VanessaE and make sure you have *the latest* one
01:45 Vazon Ok hold on
01:45 VanessaE get it from the technic github repository
01:46 Vazon ok
01:47 PilzAdam bye
01:48 VanessaE Vazon: did you verify that all of your other mods are actually loading and running properly?
01:48 Vazon Yes
01:48 VanessaE ok
01:49 Vazon ok im installing the technic mod now
01:49 VanessaE ok
01:49 VanessaE next:
01:49 Vazon there done
01:49 VanessaE stop Minetest.  Delete your debug.txt.  Start minetest and try to start a game.
01:49 VanessaE e.g. do whatever you did earlier when the error happened.
01:49 Vazon how do i delete the debug?
01:49 VanessaE just...delete it.
01:50 VanessaE with a file manager or whatever
01:50 Peacock lol
01:50 Vazon or just delete the debug file altogether?
01:50 VanessaE same way to delete any file
01:50 Vazon ok
01:50 VanessaE you*
01:50 Peacock physically remove the drive, obviously :P
01:50 VanessaE Peacock: hush, don't confuse him
01:50 Peacock lol sorry :p
01:51 * Peacock puts on a pot of coffee
01:51 Vazon Ok dont
01:51 Vazon done
01:51 VanessaE ok
01:51 VanessaE start Minetest and go into a world.  try to make the errors happen again
01:51 VanessaE if it errors, pastebin the resulting debug.txt
01:52 Vazon wait should i turn on the technic mod?
01:52 VanessaE yes
01:52 Vazon well should i put he mesecons pipelines and more trees back on then?
01:53 Vazon other wise i cant turn on the technic mod
01:53 VanessaE mesecons, pipeworks, moretrees, plants_lib (part of the plantlife modpack)
01:53 Vazon Omg hold on i dont have that i have to delete the other files
01:53 VanessaE https://github.com/Jeija/minetest-mod-mesecons  ---  https://github.com/VanessaE/pipeworks  ---  https://github.com/VanessaE/moretrees  ---  https://github.com/VanessaE/plantlife
01:54 VanessaE those are the git repos for each of those mods
01:54 Vazon I have them all but the plantlife
01:54 VanessaE get plantlife, that's what supplies plants_lib (needed by moretrees)
01:54 Tesseract moretrees should be removed from the dependencies, it slows down mapgen a LOT.
01:55 VanessaE Tesseract: moretrees depends on plants_lib, but not vice-versa.
01:55 VanessaE or you mean for technic?
01:55 VanessaE just configure moretrees to only generate rubber trees, afaik that's all technic needs it for
01:55 Tesseract technic.
01:56 Peacock tessaract naw, just add a spawn-on-place option like i did
01:56 VanessaE (moretrees_settings.txt in your world folder)
01:56 Vazon XD it falled agian in configuring XD samething happens everytime with techic mod cuase it doesnt work haha
01:56 VanessaE Vazon: it DOES work
01:56 VanessaE pastebin the errors
01:56 Vazon ok
01:57 Tesseract It should only spawn rubber trees if moretrees is available, and not otherwise. It will remove one or two dependencies, and make it a lot faster.
01:57 VanessaE Tesseract: RBA kinda balked at the idea, said technic was all but useless without a source of rubber
01:57 Tesseract VanessaE: Can you speed it up with a VM?
01:57 VanessaE nope.
01:58 VanessaE it's the engine's lighting code that's the slow part.
01:58 Vazon http://pastebin.com/f3fMz8AD
01:58 Peacock on_gen just generally is slow
01:58 VanessaE Peacock: it's not on_gen that's slow
01:58 Peacock hence, voxmynips
01:58 Vazon That is what happened
01:58 VanessaE it's the lighting code.
01:58 Vazon The what?
01:58 VanessaE Vazon: uh...?
01:58 VanessaE that's not the error we needed
01:59 Tesseract I added real mapgen to PilzAdam's nether mod. Glowstone-surounded-giant-lava-lakes FTW. ;-)
01:59 Vazon that is what happened when i tryied to turn on the technicmod and plantlife
01:59 Peacock lighting/shadows and nodeboxes yeah lol
01:59 VanessaE Vazon: turn on plantlife first.
01:59 VanessaE see if that behaves
01:59 VanessaE that focus change thing is a program bug, not a mod bug
02:00 kahrl why bug?
02:00 Peacock focus change?
02:00 VanessaE kahrl: because it apparently is stopping him from configuring his mods I guess
02:00 VanessaE Vazon: pastebin the rest of the debug.txt
02:00 VanessaE the whole thing
02:01 Peacock we should probably organize a fundraiser for pastebin lol
02:02 VanessaE haha
02:02 Vazon Ok it worked
02:02 VanessaE Vazon: what worked?
02:04 Vazon The techic mod but the mesecons and moretrees and the pipeworks are not on for some reason
02:04 Peacock missing deps?
02:04 VanessaE Vazon: ok,pastebin your whole debug.txt
02:04 VanessaE let's find out why
02:04 VanessaE (it may not be an error at this point)
02:04 Vazon O wait i found out why i forgot to add them hold on
02:05 VanessaE add them one at a time
02:05 VanessaE technic last
02:05 VanessaE test that you can run the game properly after each added
02:05 VanessaE mod
02:05 Vazon but the technis is already on
02:05 VanessaE technic won't actually run, even if it's "on", if the other mods don't load.
02:06 VanessaE btw, are you running 0.4.7-release or a git dev build?
02:06 Vazon 4.7
02:07 VanessaE impossible
02:07 VanessaE 4.7 doesn't exist.
02:07 Vazon what?
02:07 VanessaE you mean 0.4.7
02:07 Vazon Yes sorry
02:07 Peacock now you're confusing him :p
02:07 VanessaE anyways
02:07 SegFault22 Is sdzen's building blocks mod up-to-date?
02:07 VanessaE is it the "stable" release from minetest.net?
02:07 VanessaE SegFault22: yes
02:08 SegFault22 Cool.
02:08 Vazon Yes
02:09 Vazon ok here i haveto give you the debug cuase the mescones refuses to activater
02:10 VanessaE ok
02:10 Vazon http://pastebin.com/gDM9fFk7
02:11 kaeza joined #minetest
02:12 VanessaE delete your debug.txt and try again
02:12 VanessaE pastebin the output
02:12 VanessaE (too many instances there to tell what's what)
02:13 Vazon At the bottom
02:13 Vazon O ok
02:13 kahrl line 53?
02:14 Tesseract See the two images: http://imgur.com/omzC7Jv,cNgAJZV
02:14 Tesseract With a little tweaking of the MG params this could be ready for the main mod.
02:14 VanessaE brb.  that drive copy is finished, time to reboot and rip that dying drive out
02:15 Vazon Hmm XD i really should think before i do i forgot to restart the server its there now
02:15 Tesseract I am surprised how easy it was. Implementing mapgen completely in Lua would be pretty simple.
02:17 kaeza Tesseract, what about performance?
02:17 VanessaE joined #minetest
02:18 Tesseract kaeza: I can't go faster than it flying.
02:18 Tesseract terminate called after throwing an instance of 'LuaError'  what():  LuaError: error: attempt to index a nil value
02:18 SegFault22 What are some reccomended mods for a server? other than moreores/blocks, farming, homedecor, worldedit and jail
02:18 Tesseract ^ Seems exceptions aren't properly caught there.
02:21 Vazon Ok thanks VanessaE everything is working im sorry for everything this is my first server
02:21 VanessaE oh god
02:21 Vazon What?
02:21 VanessaE oh good*
02:22 Vazon O ok
02:24 VanessaE Vazon: so, let's see the last debug.txt, make sure everything's loading okay
02:24 Vazon Ok
02:24 VanessaE be sure you delete it and re-start minetest so we get a clean log
02:25 Vazon http://pastebin.com/svBLvyv1
02:26 VanessaE looks good to me
02:26 VanessaE brb
02:26 Vazon Ok good i was just rushing things
02:26 * VanessaE wanders off to fight with her speaker wire
02:26 SegFault22 Where can I get the ''flowers'' mod? I want it for my server.
02:27 Vazon Plant life
02:27 SegFault22 Thank you
02:27 kahrl https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/
02:27 VanessaE plantlife only supplies the flowers_plus mod
02:27 Vazon Welcome
02:28 VanessaE the rest is part of ...what kahrl said
02:28 Vazon VanessaE where do i go to edit the spawn rate of ores
02:28 VanessaE not sure
02:29 VanessaE normally you don't want to do that
02:29 Vazon cuase i had some one go minering and they found 7 diamonds and 3 mese at -150
02:29 kahrl you could change the ore parameters in mapgen.lua in the default mod
02:29 Vazon ok
02:39 VanessaE oh G*d, just opened up the failed HDD.  contaminated with dust. bad.
02:39 VanessaE I'm surprised this thing even ran
02:39 Tesseract Or you could write your own mapgen, like I did. :-)
02:39 Tesseract Does anyone want to test my modified nether mod?
02:40 Tesseract I also gave the nether a bottom, which allows for other realms below it.
02:41 twoelk joined #minetest
02:42 Peacock oh noes, its salsa night at the downstairs pub lol
02:42 * Peacock shoots self with railgun
02:42 kahrl is every night salsa night?
02:42 kahrl seems like it
02:42 Peacock naw just fridays
02:43 Peacock loud music fridays-saturdays, other nights closes earlier
02:43 Tesseract If you want to test it: http://ix.io/7ll Apply that over the PilzAdam's nether mod, volelmanip branch.
02:43 Tesseract voxelmanip*
02:43 Peacock wouldn't be as annoying if they didn't play the same 4-5 beats XD
02:44 Peacock though they once had a french rap night
02:44 Peacock to no one's shock that didn't take
02:46 Peacock though DJs are pretty irrelevant with sites like hypem.com
02:50 twoelk hi
02:50 Peacock hpwdies
02:51 Peacock *howdies
02:51 twoelk VanessaE, seems your server fell of the public list
02:51 twoelk can't connect after a freeze
02:51 Peacock i think she's busy feather-dusting her dead drive :/
02:51 twoelk hopefully not the one I tunneled on
02:52 Peacock naw i know she said she copied everything
02:52 twoelk would have thought so
02:53 Peacock unlike me who just wipes partitions lol
02:54 twoelk btw drowning is an issue again on waterworld? so no more easy island building for me :-(
02:55 Peacock it depends if people need to work underwater :/ need either boats or diving suits
02:55 twoelk diving suits?
02:55 Peacock also had a bunch of *tards placing torches all over the ocean floor
02:55 Peacock well theres a spacesuit mod i think, wouldn't be much trouble to adapt
02:56 kahrl just enchant a helmet with aqua affinity and respiration
02:56 kahrl oh wait that's a different game :P
02:56 twoelk well the under water idea was one thing that attracted me
02:57 twoelk can't remember how often I drowned building my first underwater hut
02:58 Peacock enchant, well there is a potions mod :p
02:58 twoelk until I found out how usefull papyrus can be
02:58 Peacock well, either boats or dive suits,
02:58 Peacock im worried about people having easy access to grief your stuff tho :/
02:59 twoelk let them drown
02:59 twoelk not much to grief yet
02:59 Peacock people still try lol
02:59 Peacock despite the fact my flame is clearly described as "Deco Flame" people still try to torch more trees with it lol
03:00 Peacock passed the 300 autobans mark this afternoon btw lol
03:01 twoelk watched some come and go, it seems the rules are not easy to understand
03:02 Peacock well at spawn there are four signs, two point the way to freebuild (with lights) hehe
03:02 twoelk and not all speak enough english
03:02 Peacock yeah i need at least spanish and german versions of the rules
03:03 sokomine if you're bored, you might test my villages mod. it's far from beeing complete and does still need its own flat world...but the villages are quite far already
03:03 Peacock first i need to enlarge spawn and make room for all the signs ill need
03:03 twoelk one was on that seemed not to understand "freebuild" was aphisical place to go to
03:03 twoelk *a physical
03:03 Peacock i could probably edit signs mod to include arrows?
03:03 Peacock not sure if it would help :/
03:04 Peacock but adding characters is easy enough
03:04 sokomine there are variants that have signs with arrows
03:04 Peacock the brown arrow signs? saw those but they still use infotext
03:04 Peacock i have to squint to read those
03:05 sokomine yes, irrc they use infotext and not floating letters
03:05 Peacock i could either add arrow characters to the current signs, or add 3 more and use different arrow backgrounds on each
03:06 Peacock theyre already designed to look like highway signs (where im from anyways)
03:06 Peacock in quebec theyve gone from white on brown, to white on blue, to white on green lol
03:06 twoelk you have green highway signs ?
03:07 Peacock these days, god knows what theyll do in the next decade lol
03:07 Peacock probably make em digital and throw in ads for state lottery XD
03:08 kaeza Peacock, IP:port ?
03:08 Peacock this is reall nice though" http://i.livescience.com/images/i/000/035/309/i02/smart-highway.jpg?1357681026
03:09 Peacock kaeza public list -> waterworld
03:09 twoelk we have white letters on blue signs on highways in germany, used that color to paint a bus once ... it was super reflective
03:09 Peacock (up now)
03:10 Peacock yeah i think theyre going for max visibility since switching from mercury to sodium lighting
03:10 kaeza Peacock, no cURL here so no public server list
03:10 Peacock oh shit lemme find out what my ip is then lol
03:13 twoelk was 66.187.95.163 the last ?
03:14 Tesseract http://imgur.com/Dt9j0ed.png
03:20 kaeza <-- off to bed
03:20 kaeza night all
03:22 twoelk guess I should do the same, after an hours drive that is, sigh
03:22 twoelk bye
03:23 Pavitra Is there a deliberate stylistic choice to make e.g. torches be flat rather than volume-y?
03:24 Tesseract Pavitra: Nope, You can't rotate nodeboxes.
03:26 Pavitra I don't know what a nodebox is, but I understood "it's a technical limitation".
03:29 VanessaE sooner or later, we'll have node meshes (e.g. proper models)
03:29 VanessaE at that point, 3d torches can look "right" (without resorting to entities anyway)
03:30 Tesseract Or bajilions of nodeboxes.
03:30 VanessaE yeah
03:33 Peacock not voxely enough XD
03:33 * Peacock readies the flamethrower
03:34 VanessaE pilz ain't here :P
03:35 Peacock well eventually he'll have something to say about that pull :p
03:35 VanessaE heh
03:35 Peacock if we couldn't get angles and curves for nodeboxes, im not sure how meshes will come to pass :/
03:36 Peacock personally i just loathe having to rely on blender lol
03:36 VanessaE at least you know how to use it
03:37 Peacock im alot better at visualizing and writing down the numbers than blendering lol
03:37 * Tesseract finds blender easier than complicated nodeboxes.
03:38 Peacock depends, how much data is in a mesh compared to a couple of tables with vertices?
03:38 VanessaE initially I would guess a mesh would be larger, until you get into the more complicated shapes
03:39 Peacock i could more easily picture using meshes for animated things like plants fluttering
03:39 VanessaE then a mesh will surely pull ahead of nodeboxes
03:39 VanessaE er, pull ahead = become smaller
03:39 Tesseract Peacock: More, but it is much easier to make. At least until we get a good nodebox editor.
03:39 VanessaE Tesseract: we have one.
03:40 VanessaE the one rubenwardy did
03:40 Peacock im one of the rare people who hates using visual tools for that sort of thing lol
03:40 VanessaE it's glitchy but it works
03:40 * Tesseract looks
03:40 Peacock especially one with blender's interface lol
03:40 VanessaE Peacock: you're just weird ;)
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03:41 Peacock though im worried anyone with a not-powerful-enough computer wont be able to make meshes :/
03:41 Peacock i can smoke a whole cig waiting for blender to load on p4
03:42 Peacock dualcore blender (and gimp) is almost instant loading
03:42 Tesseract make: *** [all] Error 2
03:51 Pavitra What if the shapes were not fully general meshes, but cuboids or parallelepipeds or something?
03:51 Peacock well i would have thought curves and angles (using vertices or w/e) would be halfway between voxel and fullblown mesh
03:52 Pavitra maybe
03:52 Peacock people will end up making those things in blender anyhow
03:52 Pavitra I was looking for something between nonrotating billboard and fullblown mesh, hopefully with a voxelly style
03:52 Peacock i just hope the meshes can be made light enough
03:53 Peacock you can use nodeboxes for entities, thats how i made my sentries/turrets rotate
03:53 Tesseract Fixed it: http://ix.io/7lt
03:54 Tesseract Er, ignore Makefile *adds to .gitignore*
04:00 Tesseract Pretty good, although it is a bit verbose in the console.
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04:23 VanessaE bbl
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05:09 Tiktalik hello
05:09 Miner_48er hi
05:09 Tiktalik is minetest good
05:09 Miner_48er yes
05:09 Tiktalik does it work well
05:09 Miner_48er yes
05:09 Tiktalik and how close is it to minecraft, is it a clone or a half-brother, or a cousin
05:10 Miner_48er http://minetest.net/
05:12 Tiktalik Miner_48er: it looks like a clone, but it could be different :V
05:13 Miner_48er have you tried it?
05:14 Miner_48er it's free
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05:16 Tesseract Tiktalik: It is different. The default game, minetest_game is similar to MC, but it can be turned into something very different from MC.
05:16 Tiktalik Miner_48er: my laptop can't run it, but I'll try it soon
05:16 Tiktalik Tesseract: how sane is the modding api? how much can be changed?
05:17 Tiktalik could you add over four billion dimensions?
05:17 Miner_48er everything can be changed it's open source
05:17 Tiktalik oh yeah...
05:18 Tesseract Tiktalik: Um, no. Minetest is limited to 3D. But you can do a lot with the modding API.
05:18 Tiktalik Tesseract: er, I meant dimensions not as in direction dimensions, I meant as in alternate world dimensions
05:19 Tiktalik like the nether/aether/mystcraft/twilight forest
05:19 Tiktalik or the end
05:19 Tiktalik but the end is crappy :(
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05:19 Tesseract Tiktalik: Dimensions are just stacked on top of each other, so it depends how thick you make each layer.
05:20 Tiktalik Tesseract: ...so they're not kept in their own world files?
05:20 Tiktalik ...lovely
05:20 Tesseract I was just working on giving "real" mapgen to the nether mod in fact...
05:21 Tiktalik Tesseract: pls do something more creative than the nether! like, uh, journey to the center of the earth type stuff!
05:21 Tesseract http://i.imgur.com/Dt9j0ed.png
05:21 Tiktalik anyway, things like that being under the world is good
05:21 Tiktalik but sometimes you want parallel things
05:21 Tesseract Tiktalik: I was just improving an existing mod.
05:22 Tiktalik oh, ok
05:23 Tiktalik but yeah, it'd be nice to have parallel dimensions instead of them being under/over, because while that's good for things like cavern/sky island, it's not good for other things
05:23 Tesseract Well G'night. :-)
05:24 Tiktalik or better yet, have both :V
05:24 Tiktalik night :)
05:25 Tesseract Tiktalik: If you want you can code it. But many people decided not to because it will take a LOT of work for something that isn't all that important.
05:25 Tiktalik yeah, but it is actually important for future things, if you want more worlds
05:25 Tiktalik future planning and all that
05:26 Tesseract And while you're at it add 32/64 bit positions :-)
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05:28 Tiktalik Tesseract: are positions floats?
05:28 Tiktalik also, how tall can worlds go?
05:28 Tiktalik ...I should let you go to bed. :I
05:28 Tesseract Tiktalik: Depends, for entities yes, for nodes no.
05:29 Tesseract about -30900 tp 30900
05:29 Tesseract to*
05:29 Tiktalik hmmm
05:29 Tiktalik so about 61800 blocks tall
05:29 Tiktalik not bad, but what about skies
05:30 Tiktalik wouldn't having worlds above/below be bad for having a sky? :P
05:30 Tesseract Yep, 16 bit signed integer. Clouds are at +100.
05:30 Tiktalik hrnggg
05:30 Tiktalik night
05:31 * Tesseract hits "Dosconnect" Bye! :-)
05:31 Tiktalik dosconnect?
05:31 Tesseract Disconnect*
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06:45 sfan5 good mornin' everyone
06:53 sfan5 wat
06:54 sfan5 someone reported in the "Minetest on Xbox 360/PS3" topic for <quote>They are not putting it on xbox</quote>
06:54 sfan5 s/reported in/reported my post in/
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07:19 Calinou https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?pid=105868#p105868 :D
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10:38 john_minetest Hello everypony and anyone else.
10:40 PilzAdam joined #minetest
10:40 PenguinDad hi PilzAdam
10:41 Taoki joined #minetest
10:41 PilzAdam Hello everyone!
10:44 john_minetest hello PilzAdam
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11:02 thexyz https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?pid=105953#p105953
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11:11 DanDuncombe I have put the source code of my 'MT_Mapper' on pastebin, will that be an alright place to have it?
11:13 PenguinDad 666 is not evil it's -rw-rw-rw
11:15 john_minetest It IS evil.
11:15 john_minetest But 777 is more evil.
11:15 john_minetest only 700 is not evil.
11:15 john_minetest or 600.
11:15 DanDuncombe VanessaE, at some point can you please update the camo mod on your server? Thanks.
11:15 PenguinDad but 000 is evil too
11:16 john_minetest not that evil.
11:16 john_minetest root can fix everything.
11:16 john_minetest "sudo chmod 700 file.txt"
11:17 john_minetest or "sudo chown john.users file.txt" and "sudo chmod 660 file.txt"
11:17 Peacock sudo chown om nom nom
11:18 john_minetest I often have to use chown when I am copying file from some dirs to /home and editing them.
11:18 john_minetest Or I do 777. Sometimes.
11:19 PenguinDad om is now the owner of nom
11:19 Peacock since switching to #! i dont have to use terminal as much (for some reason, #! has 3 different terminal emulators lol)
11:19 Peacock yet alt F2 'terminal' yields nothing XD
11:20 john_minetest PenguinDad: I think it is invalid syntax. But sudo chown "om.nom nom" would work if there is the nom group.
11:20 Peacock lol
11:21 DanDuncombe Which mod on VanessaE's server is it that makes all the red blobby ores?
11:21 john_minetest The file nom now is root,nom,nom. So 766 means in that case that Root can execute and rw, user nom can rw and group nom can rw.
11:22 john_minetest *user om
11:23 PenguinDad DanDuncombe: you mean kalite?
11:24 DanDuncombe Yes
11:24 PenguinDad glooptest
11:25 DanDuncombe Okay, thanks. What else does glooptest add?
11:26 PenguinDad More tools and in newer versions tables
11:26 PenguinDad and treasure chests
11:27 DanDuncombe Cool. Will add to my survival world then...
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11:31 nore hi
11:32 DanDuncombe Hi
11:34 nore I need textures for my mod... Could anyone here do them?
11:35 DanDuncombe What mod is it?
11:35 DanDuncombe I am not the best, but I will try
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11:38 DanDuncombe What is the best thing to do with 8 mese crystals? Genuine question, I have moreblocks and mesecons mods installed.
11:38 john_minetest Install mesecons!
11:39 DanDuncombe See what I just said
11:39 john_minetest oh.
11:39 john_minetest I read "meseblocks2
11:39 DanDuncombe Just, what should I make with them?
11:39 john_minetest Then make wire and build a giant... thing.
11:39 nore Install pipeworks, and make a factory
11:40 john_minetest Build a large calculator.
11:40 nore using autocrafters, mese tubes, etc
11:40 DanDuncombe Cool idea nore. Automated cactus farm?
11:40 nore for example, or automated tree farm
11:40 john_minetest Automated cactus farm can be done with pistons and cacti
11:40 john_minetest and item_drop for fast collecting :)
11:41 nore you will need a mese lamp+solar panel to detect when tree has grown
11:41 nore + mese sand tube to collect saplings
11:41 DanDuncombe Okay
11:41 nore and you need to shield it from sunlight
11:41 DanDuncombe I will make a cactus farm
11:41 nore you can make that with node breakers too
11:42 DanDuncombe Node breakers was my original plan
11:42 nore the advantage is that they can go directly in tubes
11:46 DanDuncombe Do they work on a conductor tube signal?
11:46 nore yes
11:47 DanDuncombe Great
11:50 DanDuncombe Do you think mese fragments should be craftable back into crystals?
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12:03 DanDuncombe nore, If a mese sorting tube is 'off' does that mean anything but the items in the slots can go through?
12:03 nore nope, that means nothing will get there
12:03 DanDuncombe Okay
12:04 DanDuncombe How can I make it so everything but one kind of item can go through a particular colour?
12:04 Calinou <DanDuncombe> Do you think mese fragments should be craftable back into crystals? <= no, and it's a feature
12:05 DanDuncombe Nore, if a colour is set for one kind of item, will the item travel down the other tubes too, or be forced to always go down that direction?
12:07 nore items will first try to go where their colour are, then in an empty colour
12:08 DanDuncombe Because,I had it set for coal to go down one colour, but it went down another. Help?
12:09 nore that is strange... could you post a bug report with an image of your setup on github?
12:09 nore bbl
12:10 DanDuncombe Woops. I had coal in the wrong colour slot. Sorry. [/sheepish face]
12:12 Jordach fuck
12:12 Jordach FUCK
12:12 Jordach blender viewport runs at 70fps
12:12 Jordach anim player decides to run at 14
12:13 Jordach and when im matching keyframes to music it doesnt help :(
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12:15 DanDuncombe Would it be possible to add a furnace fuel level thing to pipeworks that sends out mesecon when the furnace has no fuel left? To auto restock it.
12:17 DanDuncombe How many items can coal burn?
12:20 PenguinDad 13 ½ IIRC
12:20 DanDuncombe So basically 13?
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12:43 PenguinDad Jordach goes kaeza comes :)
12:43 kaeza mornings
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12:46 PenguinDad hi kaeza and in germany it's 02:50 PM
12:47 kaeza PenguinDad, Uruguay, 09:47 :)
12:48 kaeza also, effing 10ºC
12:48 kaeza winter sucks
12:50 * Semilevel is away: 500 Away
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13:02 Rancon hi?
13:02 PenguinDad hi!?
13:02 Rancon Umm....  Kind of shy.. anyone know how to code furnace like machines?
13:03 Calinou like machines?
13:03 Rancon machines similar to furnaces
13:04 Rancon and throw ponies at nekogloop?  ummm.. what does that mean?  I'm new..
13:04 Calinou it's something for fun :P
13:04 Rancon XD
13:05 Rancon so.. would I start by registering two nodes for on and off and give one a light value and an abm?
13:06 * Rancon is noob :/
13:10 Rancon Oh well... I'll attempt it again :)  I'll beback in like 4 hours
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13:34 VanessaE hi all
13:35 kaeza hey V
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13:40 VanessaE if dan comes back on while I'm out, can someone let him know the server's copy of camo has been updated?  (though as usual, parts of it are not enabled)
13:40 VanessaE (though I'll be here most of the day probably)
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13:41 aldobr hi all
13:42 aldobr http://pastebin.com/ExmQTQC1
13:43 aldobr thats the gcode in pascal
13:43 aldobr i need to translate this to lua
13:43 VanessaE so learn lua and pascal and transcode it then
13:43 VanessaE :)
13:43 VanessaE or see if someone's already implemented it in lua
13:43 aldobr i wrote that code in pascal
13:44 aldobr i know lua
13:44 aldobr there are some constructions that i dont know how to do in lua
13:44 aldobr and if i do a 1:1 translation, lua will be slow
13:44 aldobr like the character scanning
13:48 kaeza the good thing is that Pascal is easily translatable to Lua :)
13:48 kaeza which parts are you having problem with?
13:49 aldobr GetAlpha and GetNumber
13:49 aldobr its a linear scan
13:49 aldobr lua will bog down
13:49 aldobr it consumes character per character
13:49 aldobr deleting chars from the string
13:49 aldobr i beleve theres some better way to do this in lua
13:50 kaeza why not regex match and tonumber()?
13:50 aldobr well how to do this ?
13:51 aldobr :P
13:51 kaeza hmm... if the input data follows a pattern, you may be able to parse everything in one go
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13:51 jin_xi hi all!
13:52 aldobr X1234567890
13:52 aldobr where x is any letter
13:52 aldobr thats basically all that you will find inside a gcode file
13:52 kaeza hi jin_xi
13:52 aldobr (there are commends that start at ; and ends with line ending)
13:52 aldobr *comments
13:52 kaeza aldobr, can you pastebin an example gcode file
13:52 kaeza +?
13:52 aldobr yes
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13:54 * VanessaE pokes nore
13:54 aldobr http://pastebin.com/kJ85iWUe
13:54 aldobr thats a gcode file
13:54 aldobr this code was generated to be consumed by a reprap machine
13:55 nore yes?
13:55 VanessaE hi. :)
13:55 nore hi
13:55 jin_xi hmm, idk what to do with this turtle thing i did... the answer to everything always seems to involve even more code :(
13:55 aldobr there are some things that can be ignored
13:55 aldobr you can basically ignore everything but the lines starting with G1
13:56 nore jin_xi: try to generate villages, using turtle for L-system streets
13:56 kaeza aldobr, ah I see
13:56 nore or L-system rivers
13:56 aldobr x,y,z and the coordinates
13:56 aldobr they are cumulative
13:56 aldobr ie : if the command doesnt specify X, Y or Z, use the coord from the previous command
13:57 aldobr i wrote a bresenham line drawing algorithmn to simulate head moves
13:57 aldobr but it only draws if the line is across the same Z
13:57 jin_xi nore: i have a nice bit of code that abuses pathfinding and schematics to make roads
13:57 aldobr to emulate reprap behaviour
13:57 nore pathfinding???
13:57 nore but that looks a good idea
13:58 nore you should use voxel manip, though
13:58 kaeza aldobr, so you basically search for "([A-Z])([0-9.-]+)", the first group is the 'command' in this case 'G', and the second group the 'argument'
13:58 aldobr yes
13:58 kaeza so: local cmd, param = line:match("([A-Z])([0-9.-]+)")
13:59 aldobr ??
13:59 aldobr that this will do ?
13:59 kaeza then 'param = tonumber(param)', and you check you got the right command and use the param accordingly
13:59 aldobr cmd will get the ([A-Z])
14:00 kaeza yep
14:00 aldobr and param will get the ([0-9]+)
14:00 kaeza exactly
14:00 aldobr but there are more than one instance of ([A-Z])([0-9.-]+) in a single line
14:00 aldobr G1 X0.000 Y-0.635 E2.26083 ; perimeter
14:01 kaeza so 'for cmd, param in line:gmatch("...") do'
14:01 aldobr gmatch ?
14:01 kaeza then iterates through all cmd-param pairs
14:02 * aldobr didnt understand
14:02 aldobr for cmd, param in line:gmatch("([A-Z])([0-9.-]+)") do
14:02 kaeza http://www.lua.org/manual/5.1/manual.html#pdf-string.gmatch
14:02 aldobr each iteration will get the next ?
14:02 kaeza yep
14:03 MinetestBot GIT: Sapier at GMX dot net commited to minetest/minetest: Add translation for main menu 09a50d0458 2013-08-17T07:01:43-07:00 http://git.io/QTEwKw
14:03 kaeza do that for every line in the file
14:03 aldobr what happens if the line is just empty or only a comment line ?
14:03 kaeza of course, ignore the lines that are not needed
14:03 aldobr ok
14:04 aldobr another question
14:04 aldobr how to slice the file in lines like TStringList does ?
14:04 kaeza for example, 'if line:sub(1,1) ~= ";" then' will ignore comments
14:04 kaeza ah
14:04 kaeza local f = io.open(filename); for line in f:lines() do ...
14:04 aldobr ok
14:04 aldobr thanks :D
14:05 kaeza np :)
14:08 kaeza aldobr, something like this: http://pastebin.com/e7hK1Hee
14:09 kaeza woops, forgot a 'then' :P
14:09 aldobr yes
14:10 aldobr im translating the line drawing algorithmn
14:10 aldobr you give two coords
14:10 aldobr and it draws a "line" of nodes between them
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14:17 jin_xi aldobr: i got a function ready for this if you like
14:18 aldobr well, i like
14:18 aldobr less work :P
14:19 jin_xi http://paste.dy.fi/sO1
14:21 jin_xi well, it gives a list of positions of the nodes in the line
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14:32 * PenguinDad throws Pinkie Pie at NekoGloop
14:41 * NekoGloop blasts the horse with a rocket launcher
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14:44 Evergreen Ohai everyone
14:44 Evergreen :P
14:45 aldobr i will try to 3D print a toilet latrine into minetest
14:46 aldobr err a big white flush toilet
14:54 Peacock ive had people try to hook up toilets to pipeworks XD
14:54 NekoGloop xD
14:55 Evergreen For my thousand post special on the forums, I will release an insect pack!    All the other insect mods + a bunch of new ones I will make just for this pack
14:55 Peacock but to make toilets useful, id have to make some loathesome changes to HUD (adding this https://cdn1.iconfinder.com/data/icons/pidginsmilies/poop.png)
14:56 PenguinDad xD
14:56 Peacock certainly wouldn't help when MC fanboys say minetest is shit lol
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15:00 Peacock wow, in the short time it took to drink breakfast, ive had 3 people AB'ed for griefing lol
15:08 NekoGloop drink breakfast...?
15:10 * PilzAdam throws a pony that drinks her breakfast currently at NekoGloop
15:10 john_minetest Maybe he's an astronaut.
15:10 john_minetest Or a cat.
15:11 NekoGloop Let's see... /ignore PilzAdam
15:11 * MinetestBot throws an unignoreable pony at NekoGloop
15:11 NekoGloop Oh, right, and MinetestBot too
15:12 aldobr make the player have urges
15:13 aldobr if unsatisfied, the player loses health
15:13 aldobr ah and add diseases too
15:13 aldobr so if the player just shits on the walkway, disease spreading rate increases
15:13 aldobr err..
15:13 aldobr ok, scrap that whole idea
15:15 PenguinDad Is pastebin.com under a DDoS attack?
15:18 Calinou joined #minetest
15:22 kaeza aldobr, soon: SimsTest :P
15:25 lamefun joined #minetest
15:27 Peacock <NekoGloop> drink breakfast...?
15:27 Peacock coffee :p
15:27 Peacock and a cigarette (but you dont drink those)
15:29 thexyz you also shouldn't smoke those ;p
15:29 Peacock with so many things that can kill us, i dont worry too much about cigs ;p
15:30 aldobr i smoke
15:30 aldobr and my country minister of medicine decided to force people to stop smoking
15:30 PilzAdam there are better things that can kill you and they are for free
15:30 aldobr so they increased the taxes
15:30 Peacock heck ive already been hit by a car once, had a garage door come falling down on me, nearly hit by cars two more times lol
15:31 Calinou this isn't reddit, you don't win karma when you nearly die
15:31 aldobr its like US$5 per cigar pack
15:31 Calinou that's cheap compared to france (sadly)
15:31 Calinou in france it's ~6 euros
15:31 Peacock that's all? its 8$ for a pack of 20 here
15:31 aldobr our per capita gdp is smaller than france
15:31 Peacock though i roll my own since i dont smoke as much that way
15:32 Peacock (when you have to get off your ass and roll it each time, you smoke less than if theyre all just there and ready)
15:32 Peacock though some people try that and end up rolling 30 of them in the morning lol (fail)
15:33 aldobr i like mine with filters
15:33 Peacock i got tubes with filters
15:33 aldobr i can only smoke a single brand
15:33 aldobr if i smoke any other brand i get headaches
15:33 Calinou and if you don't smoke you get the inverse of headaches
15:33 Calinou :P
15:33 Peacock and a german rolling machine, the chinese ones kept breaking after two weeks XD
15:34 aldobr hollywood
15:34 aldobr do you know this brand ?
15:34 Peacock nope
15:34 Peacock we got uhm, camel i think
15:34 Peacock a few other american brands but its not even the same tobacco they use in the US
15:34 aldobr camel is too dry
15:35 thexyz i think there cigs cost about 1 euro average per pack
15:35 aldobr well, we are one of the major tabaco producers so i believe its the same
15:48 loggingbot_ joined #minetest
15:48 Topic for #minetest is now http://minetest.net | NEWS: Minetest 0.4.7 released | RULES: be patient, respect other users, here and in other channels | CORE DEVS: #minetest-dev | SERVERS: http://minetest.net/servers | IRC LOGS: http://irc.minetest.ru/minetest/ | WIKI: http://wiki.minetest.net | Today: Throw-ponies-at-NekoGloop-day
15:48 Calinou no stupidloggingbot! :p
15:48 thexyz joined #minetest
15:48 thexyz it broke
15:49 PilzAdam aldobr, why have you started to smoke?
15:49 aldobr dont remmember
15:49 Peacock dunno, im of the opinion that services need to be paid for by it's bigger users, someone on welfare who can't afford a car shouldn't have to pay for roads
15:49 aldobr i was drunk
15:49 aldobr :P
15:49 Calinou same thing for alcohol
15:49 PilzAdam thats why smoking should be illegal, so people dont start so easily
15:50 john_minetest Taxes power schools. If one class had a multitalent teacher the parents would have to pay 1713 Eutos per year for the teacher.
15:50 john_minetest If a class has 30 students.
15:50 Peacock PilzAdam by the gov't's logic it should be, but its also a cashcow
15:50 Calinou the more people paying the taxes, the less expensive the taxes
15:50 kaeza Calinou, lol
15:50 Calinou it's like fans: better have a lot of slow fans than a few fast fans
15:50 Peacock thats what also makes them hypocrites, they say its bad for you, but they don't mind collecting the proceeds of it
15:50 john_minetest And these are german values, where teachers get very low payments compared to europe.
15:51 kaeza maybe in France; not here
15:51 aldobr offtopic : any minetest server with hunger, food, fish and animals to hunt ?
15:51 Peacock we're (smokers) basically paying more to be harassed more
15:51 john_minetest Peacock: They say: "If you smoke and die earlier you have to pay the taxes you can't pay because you are dead."
15:52 Peacock well they don't mind sending young men to die on battlefields do they?
15:52 PilzAdam Peacock, see how stupid it is to smoke?
15:52 Peacock and for what exactly, oil?
15:52 rubenwardy joined #minetest
15:53 Peacock i just can't stand nanny states lol
15:53 kaeza john_minetest, by the same logic, you shouldn't pay for something you won't use because you are dead :)
15:53 rubenwardy Hi all
15:53 Peacock to be fair though, i see myself living in the Yukon at some point
15:54 kaeza hey ruben
15:54 john_minetest Peacock: If there were no oil fights the fuel would cost much more.
15:55 Peacock no oil = no suburbs, cities would be alot nicer than they are now
15:55 aldobr lets all move to principality of sealan
15:55 aldobr *sealand
15:55 Peacock you wouldn't have places as desolate and destitute as Detroit
15:55 aldobr http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principality_of_Sealand
15:55 Peacock too small, im claustrophobic, hence, Yukon lol
15:55 john_minetest Peacock: Only a small percentage is made to fuel. Most is plastic. Have fun without it.
15:56 Peacock no oil = fewer wars
15:56 PilzAdam Peacock, thats not true like this, the world is not (yet) ready to move away from oil
15:56 john_minetest Most plastic is made from oil.
15:56 john_minetest Fuel is only 1% or less.
15:56 Peacock well, tesla supposedly invented electric cars before oil became the standard
15:57 john_minetest Some people invented the battery before steam power was used.
15:57 * NekoGloop eats Calinou
15:57 Peacock Quebec runs on hydro and exports a bigger chunk of it than we consume
15:57 * john_minetest puts a kitten on NekoGloop's head.
15:58 john_minetest Peacock: Hydro is only for areas that _have_ hydro.
15:58 PilzAdam Peacock, so what? should the whole world move to quebec?
15:58 john_minetest Try to make that in a desert :D
15:58 Peacock well there's plenty of room :P
15:59 john_minetest Where I am living all energy comes from water, solar and wind.
15:59 Peacock but theres not just hydro
15:59 Peacock solar, wind, even offshore windfarms
15:59 PilzAdam but all these things need to be build first
15:59 Peacock why is that such a challenge now with everything else we've built?
16:00 john_minetest How people make eco-friendly nuclear energy: Use nuclear energy to pump water up, let it run down through turbines, here is your eco power!
16:00 aldobr there is a small production of plastics from organic materials like sugar cane
16:00 rubenwardy https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=6947 !
16:00 aldobr it can be bumped up
16:00 john_minetest aldobr: or corn
16:00 rubenwardy !title
16:00 MinetestBot rubenwardy: [Game] Capture the Flag [0.1][capturetheflag] (Page 1) — Modding General — Minetest Forums
16:00 Peacock nuclear energy yes, if not done on the cheap, could be very beneficial
16:01 aldobr plastics can be replaced if trully needed
16:01 aldobr but that would be pretty costly
16:01 Peacock three mile island and chernobyl pretty much ended that era
16:01 aldobr you can replace a lot of current plastic use with metals but that would be much costlier
16:01 PilzAdam aldobr, it also cant be done in one minute, like Peacock says
16:01 john_minetest aldobr: Build a house out of corn/sugar cane plastic, wait a year -> composted!
16:02 aldobr john_minetest:  use rocks, cement and wood
16:02 Peacock PilzAdam with unemployment being what it is right now...whats really missing is the willpower
16:02 aldobr you can replace bottles with glass
16:02 aldobr pet bottles
16:02 john_minetest aldobr: I think it would make much sense to make house compostable. It would accelerate the economy a lot!
16:03 Peacock container homes :p
16:03 aldobr oh
16:03 aldobr well i dont want to like in a container
16:03 john_minetest so no facebook in a container?
16:03 aldobr last semester i studied "production process"
16:03 john_minetest ;)
16:03 PenguinDad Composter Homes :D
16:03 Peacock well ithink the point of those is there so much more we could do with our "stuff" other than bury or burn it :p
16:04 aldobr the solution to pollution will be turning all production to robots
16:04 rubenwardy I am might be a bit OCD, but this annoys me: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=5639
16:04 john_minetest Lol, best idea ever: Build compostable plastic furniture, when you don't like them anymore put them in your garden and then plant melons.
16:04 aldobr and building thousands of solar panels
16:04 Peacock aldobr then you have to solve unemployment
16:04 aldobr billions of solar panels
16:04 rubenwardy Can a mod rename it to [Game] Minetest Black    ?
16:04 aldobr unemployment is only a problem in capitalism
16:05 aldobr but you cant have capitalism with total robotic prodution, you must find something else
16:05 PilzAdam rubenwardy, +1
16:05 aldobr its impressive what a CNC can do
16:05 Peacock aldobr for some reason, i can't picture a star-trek'ey future happening anytime soon, as much as id like
16:05 john_minetest aldobr: After 5 minutes of working you run out of screws and have to wait one week until the next ones come...
16:06 aldobr john minetest do you know about just in time production ?
16:06 aldobr you dont produce anything until someone asks for it
16:06 john_minetest I think jit production is inefficient.
16:06 Peacock thats the thing with watching star trek as a kid, it sets you up for so much disapointment later on :p
16:07 john_minetest If you know that last year 1000 screws were needed you can produce 1000 this year and if there are only 100 left you produce new ones. With jit everybody would have to wait until it is produced.
16:07 aldobr nope
16:08 Peacock john 3d-printing will probably eliminate swathes of industry in the next 20 years
16:08 Peacock as the 3d printers get better at what they do
16:08 aldobr you can 3d print screws
16:08 Peacock if you can design your own deco or know someone who can, why would you go to Pier 1
16:08 aldobr using selective laser sintering
16:09 Peacock much like torrents today, youll be able to download RL blueprints for stuff to print at home
16:09 aldobr yeah
16:09 aldobr i want to work on a printed circuit board printer
16:10 aldobr for the course conclusion
16:10 Peacock unemployment and energy will probably be the biggest issues of this century
16:10 aldobr unemployment doesnt make sense outside capitalism
16:10 Peacock aldobr what else can realistically happen
16:10 aldobr you can only have unemployment under capitalism, theres no such thing in feudalism or comunism or whatever other model
16:10 Peacock ?
16:11 Peacock feudalism?
16:11 aldobr Peacock: a return to primal comunism
16:11 aldobr a moneky gets his food from nature
16:11 Peacock problem with communism is no one who tried it actually read the manual :/
16:11 aldobr he climbs a tree and gets a banana
16:11 aldobr think of industries as trees
16:11 aldobr and we as monkeys :P
16:11 aldobr we simply go there and grab what we need
16:12 Peacock and communism doesn't solve the problems of cronyism and corruption, which is common to many political/economic systems
16:12 aldobr the production is so automatic that it can even auto-repair
16:12 aldobr Peacock: economy = lack of
16:12 aldobr theres a lack of cars
16:12 aldobr so someone has a car, someone else doesnt
16:12 Peacock well hopefully in the future we won't each need our own car
16:12 aldobr what happens if the production is so automatic that there are more cars than people ?
16:12 aldobr who will care about cars ?
16:13 Peacock overproduction? that was the problem before WW2
16:13 aldobr no overproduction
16:13 aldobr but more capacity than people to feed
16:13 aldobr what happens if robots can build other robots ?
16:13 Peacock like i said, that was the problem before WW2
16:13 hmmmm joined #minetest
16:14 aldobr it is a problem under current capitalism
16:14 Peacock when the entire world is producing, there arent enough consumers to consume everything, that leads to trade barriers and eventually wars
16:14 aldobr because overproduction means deflation
16:14 aldobr robots that make robots
16:14 aldobr and can make cars etc
16:14 aldobr your limit will be energy
16:14 aldobr not oveproduction
16:14 aldobr *overproduction
16:15 aldobr the robots have no owners
16:15 aldobr they simply serve humans as kings
16:15 rubenwardy Kaeza: me and my brother tried your firearms mod the over day
16:15 rubenwardy it is amazing
16:15 Peacock the current robots do have owners
16:15 Peacock so will warbots
16:15 rubenwardy s/over/other
16:16 rubenwardy The buzzaca crashes the server when it explodes, though
16:17 rubenwardy Could use more guns, though!
16:19 aldobr could make a zombie mod with teh guns
16:19 aldobr left4minetest
16:19 youlysses joined #minetest
16:21 rubenwardy lol
16:22 aldobr i have a lot of mod ideas but no time to write them
16:22 aldobr did you ever see a endothermic bomb ?
16:22 john_minetest A freezing idea...
16:22 PilzAdam https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?pid=105993#p105993 "Today 18:00:02" so close...
16:22 PenguinDad !title
16:22 MinetestBot PenguinDad: [Game] Capture the Flag [0.1][capturetheflag] (Page 1) — Modding General — Minetest Forums
16:22 john_minetest I bet it is made with nitrogen reactions
16:23 aldobr drop an endothermic bomb into lava to turn it into rocks instantly
16:23 aldobr use an exothermic bomb and rocks turns to lava
16:24 kaeza rubenwardy, glad you like it
16:24 kaeza I've seen you included it in CTF
16:24 aldobr http://voltzwiki.com/wiki/Endothermic_Explosive <- wtf
16:25 rubenwardy gtg soon
16:28 aldobr we need gun turrets in minetest
16:29 kaeza aldobr, there are quite a few mods that provide those
16:29 kaeza CTF does BTW
16:30 kaeza rubenwardy, can you pastebin the error from the explosion?
16:30 NekoGloop BTW?
16:31 NekoGloop oh, wait, nvm
16:35 aldobr kaeza: did you see starmade ?
16:36 kaeza ?
16:36 aldobr starmade
16:36 aldobr the game
16:37 aldobr its a blocky space simulator
16:37 aldobr like if minecraft had sex with wing commander and starmade is the child
16:38 kaeza lol java
16:40 aldobr wtf ubuntu lts does not come with java preinstalled :/
16:41 kaeza if you want something epic try UQM
16:41 aldobr whats UQM stand for ?
16:41 kaeza The Ur-Quan Masters
16:42 aldobr ok
16:42 aldobr old school
16:42 aldobr i prefer starmade
16:42 Calinou AFAIK, openjdk 6 is preinstalled
16:42 aldobr its nice to build your own ships
16:42 Calinou it's not like it's hard to install anyway
16:42 kaeza it's a port of StarControl 2 for modern computers
16:44 aldobr kaeza:  did you play freespace 2 ?
16:44 kaeza nope :P
16:44 aldobr its THE space simulator
16:45 progers joined #minetest
16:46 Zettbou joined #minetest
16:46 nore thexyz: I have a suggestion for minetest-stress
16:46 VanessaE you wanna stress minetest?  run my game ;)
16:47 nore haha
16:48 diemartin joined #minetest
16:48 * NekoGloop pokes VanessaE
16:49 * VanessaE claws at NekoGloop
16:49 TheLastProject joined #minetest
16:49 NekoGloop :<
16:49 NekoGloop What did I do :<
16:49 VanessaE RAWR!!!!
16:49 VanessaE :)
16:49 NekoGloop well, whatever
16:49 VanessaE just kidding :)
16:49 NekoGloop I'm working on tableses.
16:50 NekoGloop Making them useful
16:50 VanessaE cool
16:50 nore kaeza: could you help me to texture my computer mod?
16:50 NekoGloop Glooptest tables are like blank slates, which you apply "cores" containing the function to.
16:50 VanessaE just use his models and textures ;)
16:50 nore https://github.com/Novatux/forth_computer
16:50 NekoGloop For example, the encrusting code.
16:50 NekoGloop core.
16:51 kaeza nore, just grab one of mine
16:51 NekoGloop It allows you to encrust tools with gems
16:51 nore the problem is that I need a screen+keyboard, which you have, but also a CPU
16:52 kaeza nore, or do you have another style in mind?
16:52 kaeza ah
16:52 nore and it should not be too recent (that computer has only 65k memory)
16:52 VanessaE 64k *
16:53 nore 65ko, 64kio
16:53 kaeza bah kids these days
16:53 VanessaE 64 kB.
16:53 VanessaE don't give me none of that *i* shit :)
16:53 kaeza we used to have only 16K of memory and we made awesome stuff
16:53 nore yes, o is "octet" in French, which means "byte"
16:53 nore I always get confused
16:53 VanessaE nore: in computer memory terms, a k always equals 1024
16:54 aldobr actually 1024 is a Ki
16:54 VanessaE aldobr: no.
16:54 aldobr 1 KiByte
16:54 VanessaE k.
16:54 VanessaE lower case.
16:54 VanessaE 1024.
16:54 VanessaE no exceptions.
16:55 nore I guess we will stop fighting over that
16:55 aldobr http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binary_prefix
16:55 kaeza say you have 65535B and everyone happy :P
16:56 nore no, I have 65536B
16:56 kaeza derp
16:56 VanessaE aldobr: JEDEC.
16:56 PilzAdam VanessaE, 1024 is Ki
16:56 VanessaE computer memory is not metric.
16:56 aldobr Inst JEDEC a japanese thing ?
16:57 nore kaeza, I can use every little byte of memory
16:57 VanessaE dunno
16:57 VanessaE but when it comes to RAM, you NEVER measure in metric terms, you measure in powers-of-two terms.
16:57 nore if you count registers, it has 65550B memory
16:57 aldobr usually, but not correctly
16:58 aldobr scientifically, 1kbyte = 1000bytes
16:58 PilzAdam why do americans always have to use illogical units?
16:58 Vazon joined #minetest
16:58 VanessaE aldobr: it has been that way since nearly the beginning of computers
16:58 kaeza PilzAdam, +1
16:58 VanessaE don't confuse things by trying to use metric where it's not supposed to be used
16:58 NekoGloop Why do europeans alwas have to use illogical languages?
16:59 aldobr VanessaE: it IS supposed to be used. If 1 million person write something wrong, the wrong doesnt become right
16:59 PilzAdam NekoGloop, german pronouncation is way more logical than english one
16:59 NekoGloop Perspective, dear.
16:59 PilzAdam errr, -typo
16:59 VanessaE aldobr: only disk manufacturers use metric.  RAM and ROM have been measured by powers of 2 for many decades now.
17:00 kaeza VanessaE, *marketing bullshit
17:00 PilzAdam NekoGloop, no, I just measure the number of exceptions
17:00 VanessaE kaeza: yep.
17:00 VanessaE they use metric just so they can use larger numbers in their marketing materials
17:01 kaeza that's why your 1TB disk is not 1TB in size :P
17:01 aldobr kilo mega etc existed long before computers
17:01 VanessaE but that 64k computer really has 64k in it.  2^16, 65536 bytes.
17:01 aldobr and they meant 1000 and 100000
17:02 aldobr 1000000 etc
17:02 VanessaE aldobr: only in metric.
17:02 VanessaE and this ain't metric.
17:02 aldobr this IS metric
17:02 aldobr ok
17:02 aldobr i rest my case
17:02 NekoGloop 1000 bytes is 8*1000
17:02 VanessaE aldobr: no.  just no.
17:03 aldobr VanessaE: conventions cannot be discussed
17:03 VanessaE you are wrong and any compuer scientist worth his/her salt will say the same thing.
17:03 aldobr but i hate when negligence stabilishes a convention
17:03 nore ok, let's say this discussion is over. Can anyone help me to texture this 64k computer and 8k floppy?
17:03 aldobr VanessaE: computer scientists have nothing to say about conventions
17:03 kaeza nore I'm on it
17:03 PilzAdam VanessaE, this is an international channel, thus we use SI
17:03 nore with the screen, disk drive and floppy programmator too
17:03 aldobr conventions are just conventions
17:03 nore kaeza, thanks
17:03 aldobr they cant be agued
17:03 aldobr *argued
17:03 VanessaE computer scientists redefined those terms when dealing with RAM and they will stay re-defined for that field.
17:03 nore FYI, some textures aren't even in the repo yet
17:04 NekoGloop I say we must now count in kittens
17:04 aldobr but 1024 kilobyte is a convention stablished by used not by tougth
17:04 PilzAdam VanessaE, {{cn}}
17:04 aldobr so there are no computer scientists involved
17:04 kaeza nore, some specs first: 16px?
17:04 nore yes
17:04 VanessaE if the people who set the metric stanadard can redefine the kilogram, then what's the issue?
17:04 aldobr the correct name is 1024 kibyte
17:04 VanessaE (and yeah, they have at least a couple of times)
17:04 aldobr this is the IEC name
17:04 aldobr international
17:04 aldobr JEDEC is japanese
17:04 NekoGloop You aren't counting in kittens!!!11!111one1111!!
17:05 VanessaE so being a japanese standard automatically makes it invalid?
17:05 aldobr why does RAM comes in JEDEC format ? because they are mostly made in japan or japans area of influence
17:05 nore hey, I have a question about licenses: is CC-BY a good license for software?
17:05 PilzAdam internationla > japanese
17:05 NekoGloop u r stoopid u rn't contin in kittens like i said u shold lol
17:05 VanessaE tell that to everyone who has ever programmed a GAL, PAL, etc chip.
17:05 NekoGloop (that's the summary of this conversation)
17:05 VanessaE nore: sure.
17:05 nore because CC licenses are mainly for art, no?
17:06 VanessaE RAM is measured in powers of two because that's how the addressing HAS to work
17:06 thexyz nore: yes?
17:06 nore but it is ok
17:06 nore thanks!
17:06 VanessaE you have X number of addressing lines, each one doubles the range over the previous count.
17:06 aldobr VanessaE: why dont use Ki Mi Gi ?
17:06 VanessaE it's just that simple.
17:06 aldobr no its not
17:06 Calinou you can use CC on code fine
17:07 VanessaE WHAT!!
17:07 aldobr because there are standard IEC prefixes for exactly that case
17:07 VanessaE have you ever done hardware design?:
17:07 Calinou nore: I'd suggest zlib license personally
17:07 aldobr 1 KiByte ram
17:07 NekoGloop I think Wheatley came into the chat here
17:07 nore thexyz: some call for show_formspec, with handler=function() that will be called on formspec receive fields
17:07 aldobr VanessaE: a little in school
17:07 NekoGloop Utter moron.
17:07 Calinou aldobr secretely works for intel, I bet, he dislikes you because you use an AMD CPU.
17:07 Calinou </conspiracy>
17:07 PilzAdam VanessaE, you do realiste that you argue against yourself?
17:07 nore Calinou: what are the differences with zlib?
17:07 VanessaE aldobr:  computer hardware that is?  as in memory devices?
17:07 Calinou nore: zlib is pretty much like WTFPL
17:07 PilzAdam VanessaE, your point is, 10 as a base makes no sense in RAW
17:07 PilzAdam *M
17:07 VanessaE anything with an addressing scheme?
17:08 aldobr VanessaE: anyone who study computer science has to touch computer archtecture
17:08 PilzAdam thats why k and m as prefix make no sense, since they are defined to use 10 as base
17:08 VanessaE PilzAdam: kilo is defined as 10.  'k' is not.
17:08 nore is there a difference  zlib/MIT?
17:08 NekoGloop k is defined as a letter of the alphbet
17:08 NekoGloop problem solved
17:08 aldobr VanessaE: why invent another prefix when there are already standard ones ?
17:09 PilzAdam VanessaE, k is shorthand for kilo
17:09 aldobr why create the 'k' which can be confused for kilo, when there is kibi ?
17:09 VanessaE argue with the people who started using those prefixes, not the rest of us WHO HAVE BEEN USING THEM ALL OUR LIVES.
17:09 nore VanessaE: since pipeworks has become quite big, should we change license?
17:09 VanessaE jesus christ people.
17:09 aldobr VanessaE: they started using k because they couldnt care less
17:09 thexyz nore: the problem is that now formspec just renders to a string and knows nothing about its holder
17:09 VanessaE nore: at present, it's wtfpl I think.  I don't see a lot of reason to change but perhaps
17:09 PilzAdam VanessaE, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kilo-
17:10 nore with formname
17:10 VanessaE oh screw it, I give up
17:10 nore the function creates an unique formname, and detects it and then calls the handler function
17:10 VanessaE I feel like I'm arguing with 10 year olds.
17:11 aldobr in network code we use kibi just to avoid confusion
17:11 aldobr kibi, mibi, gibi etc
17:11 NekoGloop VanessaE, you are.
17:11 aldobr and octets instead of bytes
17:11 PilzAdam VanessaE, "A second definition has been in common use in some fields of computer science and information technology, which is, however, inconsistent with the SI"
17:12 PilzAdam since we are in a internationl channel we use SI, so definitions that conflict with it should be avoided
17:12 aldobr to avoid confusion
17:12 thexyz nore: why do you want the callback to be defined in the same place as formspec is?
17:13 PilzAdam ""Faced with this reality, the IEEE Standards Board decided that IEEE standards will use the conventional, internationally adopted, definitions of the SI prefixes."
17:13 nore I thought to something like:
17:13 nore callback = function(player, fields)...end
17:13 PilzAdam VanessaE, so as a conclusion: your definition is not wrong, but it isnt standard
17:14 PilzAdam and to avoid confusion, people should use standards
17:14 nore show_formspec(player, formspec, handle=callback)
17:15 thexyz nore: also, I feel dump, but there seems to be no formname for node
17:15 thexyz dumb*
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17:15 nore and even the possibility to pass additional information
17:15 webdesigner97 hi
17:15 thexyz nore: check on_receive_fields
17:15 thexyz oh, you're talking about players
17:15 nore thexyz: yes, I know that, the objective is to do something easier
17:16 thexyz yeah, then I agree that we need to do something about players' formspecs
17:16 nore using minetest.serialize, you could set formname = randomname..minetest.serialize(info)
17:17 nore and then, a handle that checks formname.sub(1, 10)==randomname
17:17 nore if so, that calls callback with minetest.desirialize(formname:sub(11, -1)) as one of its arguments
17:17 nore so you can pass information to callbacks
17:19 thexyz what do you mean by "additional information"?
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17:21 nore things like that: https://github.com/Novatux/forth_computer/blob/master/init.lua#L604
17:21 nore until line 609
17:21 aldobr forth ?!
17:22 nore s/609/607
17:22 nore yes, it makes a computer, that can boot, along with a builtin forth boot disk
17:22 nore that I programmed myself
17:24 thexyz how about something like `local x = formspec(…):on("input", function(e) e.args.arg1, e.args.arg2 … … end)`, then `player:formspec(x, arg1=1, arg2=2…)`; and when assigned to node it just appends itself to node's on_receive_fields
17:25 nore storing itself in meta? good idea
17:25 nore s/itself/the info
17:25 nore except that you might need to add a player argument
17:26 kaeza nore, so separate keyboard/monitor, a CPU, and a floppy drive?
17:26 nore kaeza: yes, + floppy and floppy programmator (which is  a device that puts builtin programs in floppys)
17:27 nore thexyz: perhaps on("update" or something like that
17:27 thexyz yeah, the problem is that now I was only working with nodes
17:27 thexyz okay
17:27 nore but you could hack formname to send information
17:28 nore so for node, info is in nodemeta, for other formspecs, in formname
17:28 thexyz I think I'll just use a global table to store arguments (`global_args["formspec_123"]`), then set name to `stress_formspec_123`, parse it and get args back
17:29 nore that could be done too, but I would nevertheless copy the arguments
17:29 nore s/copy/deepcopy
17:29 nore because they can be modified
17:30 thexyz the problem is that it's way too insecure
17:30 thexyz client can forge a formname
17:31 nore does client know formname?
17:31 nore and is it him that sends it again?
17:31 thexyz I'm quite sure it does
17:31 nore ok, so best would be global table, + minetest.deserialize(minetest.serialize(arg))
17:32 nore i.e., deepcopy arg before putting it in global table
17:32 thexyz check client.cpp, line 1983
17:32 nore I guess you're right...
17:32 thexyz also, it seems to apply only for player because there's no need to pass args to node's formspec, is there?
17:33 thexyz you don't explicitly ask node's formspec to show
17:33 thexyz so you cannot provide any additional dynamic arguments
17:34 nore you're right
17:34 thexyz okay, so we only have to decide what to do with players
17:34 nore but that could be done too
17:35 thexyz but there's no need, is there?
17:35 nore because one might want to show a node's formspec, and then is shall be handled by node
17:35 nore and that can be done without too much code
17:35 nore just keeping a parameter if it is a node's formspec or a formspec
17:36 thexyz I still don't understand why do you want to store static arguments in formspec
17:36 thexyz you can as well store them in node
17:36 thexyz and then access with e.node.arg (to be done)
17:37 nore no, I don't want to store static arguments in formspec for nodes
17:37 nore but to be able to show the formspec of a specific node
17:38 nore and then it shall be handled by the node itself
17:38 nore as if the player had right-clicked on the node
17:38 nore but I guess I can do that
17:38 nore and send a pull request
17:39 thexyz I'm not sure if that's the right thing to do
17:40 Tesseract PilzAdam: added real mapgen to your nether mod: http://ix.io/7m5
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17:40 nore why?
17:40 PilzAdam Tesseract, screenshots?
17:40 Tesseract http://imgur.com/cNgAJZV,Dt9j0ed
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17:40 Tesseract PilzAdam: The second one is more recent.
17:41 PilzAdam do you have some benchmarking?
17:42 Tesseract There are some imense caves if you look around. I can't outrun the mapgen with fast and fly on.
17:42 thexyz nore: well, maybe I don't get it; I have plans to include some sort of :fire method, in that case it would look like _({1, 2, 3}):fire("update", {field_a=1, field_b=2…}) -- ("update" is not good enough)
17:44 nore thexyz: I want to add a node:show_formspec(player) method, that will do the same as if a player had right-clicked
17:44 nore + what you said earlize
17:44 nore s/erlize/earlier
17:45 thexyz hm..
17:46 nore so the global table would hold infos like {args=.., is_node=true/false}
17:46 nore and if is_node==true, args=nodepos
17:47 nore and we need to replace context/current_name with nodemeta
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17:49 thexyz you want to force open node's formspec to player? or what?
17:49 nore yes, it is exactly that
17:49 thexyz can you provide use case example?
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17:49 nore yes, my computer mod
17:50 nore currently, I need show_formspec and such because I can't force_show the formspec
17:50 nore but with that, no need for it
17:51 Vazon Does anyone now the jail commands?
17:52 thexyz nore: in what cases do you need it? still not clear
17:52 nore I want to update the formspec when something happens on the screen
17:53 nore so I need to re-show it
17:53 nore but I can't do that if I use node's formspec
17:54 thexyz why do you need node's formspec in the first place?
17:54 nore because it is easier to handle than using show_formspec
17:54 nore and it produces nicer code
17:55 nore that's what minetest-stress is about, simple code, no?
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17:57 thexyz yes it is, but for me it seems like you're too used to minetest's formspecs; instead of thinking how to do it the other way you're trying to "hack" it somehow to make it work how you're used to it
17:58 nore perhaps I am, but it can nevertheless be needed for easy mod creation
17:58 nore I will do it nevertheless, feel free to merge it or not
18:00 thexyz feel free to, but I'm not going to merge anything until it's designed properly
18:01 thexyz minetest's formspecs are way too odd
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18:05 thexyz maybe it will be better to not define any extra data (callbacks) inside formspec
18:06 thexyz because in node, for example, how do we know what callback to call?
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18:06 thexyz we should store some name somewhere (meta)
18:06 thexyz who will manage those names?
18:06 kaeza nore, https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/100008207/screenshot_2373222413.jpg
18:06 thexyz what to do when formspec is changed
18:07 nore kaeza: is the thing on the left a CPU?
18:07 kaeza the monitor
18:07 kaeza or well, a misture of both :P
18:07 kaeza mix*
18:08 nore because in fact "screen" is screen+keyboard, and CPU is a "thing" that I do not know what it should look like ;)
18:10 aldobr most of the time computers only make sense if they control some process
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18:16 Tesseract Planned downtime for ShadowBot soon.
18:18 nore thexyz: http://pastebin.com/EwDS8sMF
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18:28 thexyz nore: I'm not sure
18:29 thexyz I'm not sure about what to do with security either
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18:53 nore thexyz: that one has no security problems
18:54 thexyz well that one won't work
18:54 thexyz but that's ok, this is a draft, I see
18:54 thexyz I'm sure it has security problems
18:54 thexyz heavily depends on its usage but still
18:56 thexyz imagine a situation
18:56 nore what won't work?
18:57 nore and hacked clients shouldn't be such a problem, no?
18:58 nore and why that one won't work?
18:59 kaeza ok, so I started radomly drawing stuff: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/100008207/cpu.jpg
18:59 kaeza still need to add some shading
18:59 nore kaeza, good!
19:00 nore If you saw my other textures, those are 2-colour ones
19:00 thexyz hm, yeah, when storing handler in the same table with args it should work, I think
19:01 thexyz nore: it won't because: self.name()
19:01 thexyz and maybe there's other stuff but I'm not going to look for it
19:02 nore yes, you're right, I need to change to self:name()
19:03 nore done
19:03 thexyz still, it's a draft, isn't it?
19:03 nore more or less
19:03 thexyz I mean, you didn't try to actually run it
19:03 nore nope
19:04 nore but the question is, is it good?
19:04 nore should it be merged?
19:05 nore I mean, the idea itself
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19:09 thexyz maybe, I don't see anything terribly wrong with the idea
19:09 nore I will test it, then send a pull if you are ok
19:10 thexyz how are you going to process fields like ${text}?
19:11 thexyz which use node meta
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19:12 thexyz I'd also recommend to not spend time sending a pull
19:13 YuGiOhJCJ joined #minetest
19:13 thexyz because that method should belong to player class
19:15 YuGiOhJCJ hello, sometimes I got a segmentation fault while I am playing at minetest 0.4.7 on Linux, have you an idea on the reason of this ?
19:15 Menche what were you doing before the fault?
19:16 YuGiOhJCJ hmm it's difficult to say I am playing and it happened at any time
19:16 YuGiOhJCJ while I am constructing or just when I am walking
19:17 PenguinDad System Specs
19:17 PenguinDad please
19:17 YuGiOhJCJ Linux 32 bits, Slackware 14.0
19:18 YuGiOhJCJ irrlicht-1.7
19:18 Calinou >2013 >32 bits
19:18 Calinou YuGiOhJCJ: a paste of the console would help
19:18 Calinou http://paste.ubuntu.com
19:18 Calinou which mods do you use?
19:18 YuGiOhJCJ no mods
19:18 YuGiOhJCJ only the default game
19:19 thexyz it shouldn't segfault in any case
19:19 thexyz YuGiOhJCJ: do you perhaps have a gdb output?
19:19 YuGiOhJCJ the problem is if I run gdb it can take a lot of time before the problem happened
19:20 YuGiOhJCJ sometimes I can play during 15 min with no problem
19:20 thexyz oh
19:21 YuGiOhJCJ Calinou, what do you want I paste ? the result when the seg fault happened ?
19:21 Calinou all the log, from starting the game to the segfault
19:23 YuGiOhJCJ oh yeah I found a file : .minetest/debug.txt
19:23 aldobr is linux mint ok ?
19:24 Calinou for what?
19:24 nore thexyz: I hadn't thought to those
19:25 aldobr for playing minetest
19:25 Calinou any distro should work
19:25 Calinou it's easier to get it working on debian-based distros, though
19:25 aldobr i was unable to play with mageia and opensuse
19:25 Calinou you didn't install the dependencies, that's why
19:26 aldobr they provide no dependencies
19:26 Menche linux mint is basically an enhanced ubuntu
19:26 aldobr ie.: i cent install
19:26 YuGiOhJCJ ok if the problem persist I will past the log from this file
19:26 aldobr *cant
19:26 aldobr i will try mint then
19:27 Calinou Menche: or not
19:27 aldobr but bodhi linux looks so cute with enlightment desktop
19:27 Calinou aldobr: they do provide dependencies, but don't have the same name
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19:27 Menche Calinou: hmm?
19:27 Calinou mint is worse than buntus in some aspects too
19:27 Calinou oh hey Wuzzy :)
19:28 Wuzzy hi
19:28 kaeza nore, https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/100008207/cpu2.jpg
19:29 YuGiOhJCJ Seg fault : the log is short :)
19:29 kaeza something's not right there...
19:29 nore kaeza, I like it
19:29 YuGiOhJCJ http://paste.ubuntu.com/5997167/
19:30 Menche YuGiOhJCJ, there's nothing out of the ordinary there
19:30 Menche is that the whole debug.txt?
19:30 YuGiOhJCJ yes I have removed it just before run a new instance of minetest to be sure to don't have useless things
19:32 Calinou . . . . .
19:32 Calinou I don't see a line talking about segfault
19:32 Calinou so you're definitely missing stuff :P
19:32 YuGiOhJCJ maybe the content of this file is not the things which are displayed in my console
19:32 Menche what OS do you use?
19:32 YuGiOhJCJ Linux 32 bits, Slackware 14.0
19:33 Menche could run it from the terminal with minetest >> output.txt
19:34 Menche oh, and what is debug_log_level set to? set it to 4 to enable all debug messages.
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19:35 YuGiOhJCJ http://paste.ubuntu.com/5997192/
19:35 YuGiOhJCJ this is what I see in my console
19:35 YuGiOhJCJ as you can see the seg fault is here
19:37 Calinou what graphics card/driver?
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19:37 Calinou lspci | grep VGA
19:37 Calinou (it's rarely related, but could still be)
19:37 YuGiOhJCJ 01:00.0 VGA compatible controller: nVidia Corporation GT218 [GeForce 210] (rev a2)
19:37 PilzAdam Calinou, I bet you have a shotrcut for  lspci | grep VGA  :-p
19:38 YuGiOhJCJ and the driver is "nouveau"
19:38 Calinou nouveau, well...
19:38 Calinou try using nvidia and see :P
19:38 YuGiOhJCJ yes it could be a good idea
19:38 YuGiOhJCJ I will try
19:38 aldobr no matter what, dont use nv
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19:38 Calinou haters gonna hate, aldobr
19:39 Weedy joined #minetest
19:39 Calinou YuGiOhJCJ: the more recent, the better
19:40 YuGiOhJCJ yes, the gdb backtrace tells me that it is a problem of the "nouveau" driver
19:41 YuGiOhJCJ http://paste.ubuntu.com/5997209/
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19:43 kaeza nore, https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/100008207/cpu_textures.zip
19:43 kaeza both versions, shaded and unsfaded
19:43 kaeza -f+h
19:43 YuGiOhJCJ anyway it should be good to be compatible with the "nouveau" driver
19:44 kaeza released under CC-BY-NA-NB-NC-ND-NE
19:44 kaeza :P
19:44 sokomine what kind of liscence is that?
19:44 aldobr CC-BY-WTF
19:44 PilzAdam +DN (Dont Use)
19:44 nore seriously, what license?
19:44 kaeza J/K, CC-BY-SA
19:44 nore ok
19:44 nore I must add a README, then...
19:45 Calinou YuGiOhJCJ: it is, but nouveau frequently has regressions. NVIDIA does not want an open source driver.
19:45 * NekoGloop pokes kaeza
19:46 Calinou if you want an open source driver you better use AMD cards
19:46 * kaeza puts a pon^Wkitten on NekoGloop's head
19:46 YuGiOhJCJ anyway I am not using the last version of "nouveau" driver (as I am on an old 3.2.29 kernel so maybe the last works better)
19:46 NekoGloop a what?
19:47 Calinou recent kernels have much better drivers
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19:48 sokomine i'm quite satisfied with the integrated gpu of the celeron g1610. that does very well for playing minetest. only issue: mine*craft* does cause problems - it does turn the second screen off when terminated
19:49 sokomine people with better graphics card may be able to look further...so it's probably worth trying to get the graphics driver to cooperate well
19:49 Calinou a celeron G1610 uses an "HD graphics", which is a feature-limited HD 2500 (much slower than an HD 4000 already)
19:49 nore kaeza: what orders are the textures in the list? I can't get it right...
19:50 Weedy_la1py joined #minetest
19:50 kaeza ah
19:50 Calinou sokomine: recent IGPs do better than low end cards, that is true
19:50 kaeza nore, http://pastebin.com/hJLUuFbF
19:51 Calinou but even a 80 euro graphics card is out of range of the best IGP (HD 5200)
19:52 YuGiOhJCJ yes the Intel embedded graphics card have good results I have tested one previously
19:52 Weedy_lappy joined #minetest
19:52 nore thanks
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20:02 NekoGloop So... what's the item limit?
20:03 VanessaE 4095 unless you tweak mapnode.h
20:03 VanessaE then you can up it to somewhere north of 60000 or so if you want (recommended is 32767 = 0x7fff)
20:04 NekoGloop Please tell me that's going to become standard.
20:04 VanessaE I wish someone would just do it already
20:04 * VanessaE pokes kahrl
20:04 NekoGloop oh, but, right, getting things done.
20:04 VanessaE actually stuff is getting done.  I'm just not sure what's the holdup with that one
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20:07 NekoGloop why not 0xffff?
20:07 VanessaE because there needs to be a bit of room leftover for undefined nodes
20:07 NekoGloop then 0xff00
20:08 VanessaE 0x7fff was what the devs settled on
20:08 nore because 0x7fff isn't enough?
20:08 VanessaE though imho arounx 0xf000 should be more than sufficient
20:08 VanessaE around*
20:09 Weedy_lappy joined #minetest
20:10 NekoGloop http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bA8YMIv_Qdg ~
20:11 VanessaE !title
20:11 MinetestBot VanessaE: U.N.オーエンは彼女なのか?を-FeArFuL uNluCkY GiRL - YouTube
20:11 Weedy_la1py joined #minetest
20:11 NekoGloop "yeah, um, pass"
20:12 VanessaE I'm already in the middle of a video
20:12 VanessaE :)
20:12 Calinou doesn't increasing node limit require more RAM?
20:12 Calinou IIRC, that is why it isn't done
20:12 VanessaE yeah, a minimal amount I guess
20:12 Calinou 32767 would be a good default
20:12 VanessaE 0xf000 is better
20:13 VanessaE but 0x7fff is enough I suppose
20:13 NekoGloop Like... at most... 50 bytes? :P
20:13 VanessaE NekoGloop: something like 60 megs I guess
20:13 Weedy joined #minetest
20:13 NekoGloop I forget; how do I turn a number into a string?
20:14 PilzAdam tostring()?
20:14 NekoGloop mmm, ok
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20:28 Pavitra It feels like a stone axe breaks trees no faster than my bare hands.
20:28 Weedy joined #minetest
20:28 Weedy joined #minetest
20:29 NekoGloop that's because it doesn't
20:31 Weedy_lappy joined #minetest
20:34 Pavitra Is that a bug? Do wood and stone axes have any purpose at all?
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21:08 PenguinDad New font (Times New Roman) wut?
21:09 VanessaE huh?
21:10 PenguinDad http://www.crevis.net/news.html and they claim the texture pack selection
21:12 VanessaE oh
21:12 VanessaE megh
21:12 VanessaE meh
21:12 VanessaE ripoff project
21:13 PilzAdam lol, "Our names in the credit"
21:13 kaeza joined #minetest
21:13 PilzAdam first thing to do when you fork Minetest: change the credits tab
21:14 PenguinDad and kahrl's name is wrong after all :/
21:15 john_minetest Yeah, I just wanted to mention it ^
21:15 john_minetest "Crevis is freeware"
21:15 john_minetest Did I miss some part of the GPL?
21:15 PilzAdam "You may redistribute it under the rules of the GNU license." WTF?
21:16 PenguinDad which GNU license?
21:17 john_minetest Some. They are all the same ;)
21:17 PenguinDad and they don't provide the source code at all :(
21:17 john_minetest They didn't read the GPL.
21:17 john_minetest Dumb.
21:17 john_minetest Now we can sue them.
21:17 john_minetest >:D bwah-bwah-har-har-ha-haaaa!
21:19 PenguinDad why not :>
21:21 john_minetest ... And that's why I read Terms of use and licenses. Or I only look at the header and when there is "GNU GPL Version 2 or higher" I skip it because I know what's in it.
21:23 * VanessaE looks at her server... Y U PEOPLE NO PLAY ON IT? :(
21:23 john_minetest They are evil.
21:23 john_minetest They play minetest on a minetest server.
21:24 john_minetest Completely unnatural and strange. Ask a psychologist about it.
21:24 john_minetest Or a markov chain bot for similar results as a psychologist.
21:24 LazyJ Vanessa, did you replace the other hard drive with a SSD?
21:24 VanessaE I have one SSD and one spinning rust now
21:24 VanessaE both brand new
21:25 LazyJ Any perceptible bottle necks using both?
21:25 Exio4 for a server i would use a raid 1 with two harddisks :P
21:25 VanessaE (getting 750GB worth of SSD would be....expensive)
21:25 Exio4 > SSD
21:25 Exio4 getting 64gb with SSDs is already expensive
21:26 VanessaE LazyJ: not really, no
21:26 john_minetest If you screw up a HDD, look out. It has a sharp edge. I once cut my finger.
21:26 Weedy_la1py joined #minetest
21:26 LazyJ I'm entertaining the idea of switching to SSD but the cost and lifespan are still staying my upgrade.
21:27 VanessaE LazyJ: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dc4TXCZGgXY
21:27 VanessaE SSD's fit into that model quite well.  hot = fast.  crazy = glitchy.
21:27 VanessaE they're worth it.
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21:28 VanessaE I get about 215MB/sec out of the one I'm using (it can do twice that, but I'm only on SATA2)
21:28 sokomine finally...posted something about my villages-mod: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?pid=106040 (/advertisement) :-)
21:28 VanessaE sokomine: cool
21:29 sokomine it's still far from beeing finished. but it does create villages on flat worlds :-)
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21:29 LazyJ Looks fantastic, Sokomine! :)
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21:30 sokomine thanks :-)
21:31 LazyJ SSD = Hot and crazy.  Hmm... To wild for the lazy-one. :)-
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21:31 VanessaE LazyJ: the short version:  get a known, good brand and treat it like any ordinary hard drive (except don't put swap on it) and it'll probably work fine for you
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21:32 LazyJ Is 2yrs the average life span of an SSD?
21:32 sokomine ssds are fine
21:32 VanessaE the one I'm using is good so far (it was the best one recommended by Tom's Hardware for my budget)
21:33 VanessaE LazyJ: more than that if it's a good brand
21:33 sokomine nobody knows yet. tests of a renowned computer magazine showed that they last quite a while
21:33 VanessaE they tend to have 3 to 5 year warranties anyway
21:33 sokomine and, further advantage: they do not have to be treated like raw eggs. they're like flash storage
21:33 PenguinDad my SSD is from some french brand
21:33 Weedy_la2py joined #minetest
21:33 VanessaE in theory, they should be able to outlast a comparably-sized spinning rust as long as you don't try to overuse the SSD's write capacity
21:34 VanessaE mine's a Mushkin Chronos Enhanced.
21:34 LazyJ I'm running Linux, so I don't use defragmenters like I used to. That should cut down on the writes.
21:35 LazyJ Any tech that indicates the SSD's remaining writes? Some sort of early warning?
21:35 sokomine not really. linux does need some preparations in order to not overuse the ssd. usually, the file system would record every access to a file
21:36 NakedFury joined #minetest
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21:39 VanessaE LazyJ: sadly, they usually just die..  they seem to have a write capacity of 3000 to 10000 writes per cell
21:39 NekoGloop http://orteil.dashnet.org/experiments/cookie/
21:39 Weedy joined #minetest
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21:40 VanessaE sokomine: don't use swap, mount with noatime as one of the options.
21:40 VanessaE done.
21:40 LazyJ Ok, thanks for the real-life user experience info. (so much better than the sales pitch). :)
21:40 VanessaE LazyJ: so get an SSD but keep backups on a regular schedule to an offline HDD.
21:41 * sokomine nods to vanessa
21:41 LazyJ I've been spoiled with a 2tb hard drive.
21:41 Weedy_la1py joined #minetest
21:41 VanessaE I read somewhere that there's enough write cycles in a typical SSD to last you like 20 or so years of heavy usage, if the electronics don't die first.
21:42 PenguinDad Join Spam :D
21:42 LazyJ I'm a notorious packrat so the move to a smaller SSD will require some... adjustment. :0)
21:42 sokomine for a linux machine running nonstop, the gain an ssd gives is limited. there's no boot time to shorten (machine runs 24/7), no time to save when loading programs (they're running in the background anyway). those two points are more important for windows users
21:42 VanessaE LazyJ: easy solution - use a SSD for / and /home, and spinning rust for mass storage
21:43 sokomine i bought an ssd because my old drive was close to failure, consumed more power than the ssd, produced more noise
21:43 proller joined #minetest
21:43 VanessaE sokomine: an SSD makes minetest start way faster :P
21:43 LazyJ I just bought a new computer a few months ago (big upgrade from what I had).
21:44 LazyJ So the thought of spending more money on it so soon is part of my trepidation.
21:44 Weedy_lappy joined #minetest
21:44 sokomine preload_item_visuals = 0 is a much greater time-saver :-)
21:44 sokomine guess they both work together :-)
21:44 VanessaE yup
21:44 sokomine a new computer without ssd? strange
21:44 VanessaE LazyJ: $100-ish iwll get you 120GB now
21:44 VanessaE will*
21:45 VanessaE so the price is starting to approach sanity finally :)
21:45 LazyJ Aye.
21:45 LazyJ These days, 100gb isn't as big as it used to be.
21:46 LazyJ I remember loading entire programs from a single, 1.45mb disk.
21:46 VanessaE yep, I remember too
21:46 VanessaE or installing a distro from two + net connection
21:46 LazyJ Then 1gb hard drives where the monster sized HDs
21:46 LazyJ Now I carry 16 times more than that in a little usb thumb drive.
21:46 VanessaE yep, nuts isn't it?
21:47 VanessaE my husband just bought a little microSD card with one of those regular-SD-sized adapters.  32GB, and the damn thing's the size of my thumbnail.
21:47 VanessaE and that's not even the leading edge anymore, not even close
21:47 VanessaE "I'm afraid I'm gonna break this thing!"
21:47 LazyJ I just don't want to throw 100 hard earned dollars at something that will be 10x bigger and cheaper next year.
21:48 VanessaE it won't be.
21:48 NakedFury that will always happen
21:48 VanessaE SSD increases happen slower than spinning rust
21:48 Weedy joined #minetest
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21:48 LazyJ There are spurts and then periods of less growth in tech.
21:49 LazyJ Like Vanessa said, SSD's price is approaching sanity.
21:50 sfan5 !g ssd price
21:50 MinetestBot sfan5: http://www.newegg.com/Internal-SSD/SubCategory/ID-636
21:50 LazyJ My cpu isn't a production machine so the speed gains aren't affecting any of my profit margins.
21:50 sfan5 $209 :O
21:50 LazyJ Heh! If I had a profit margin then I could afford an SSD! :)
21:50 VanessaE 209? looks like 109 to me :D
21:50 Weedy_lappy joined #minetest
21:51 PenguinDad has anybody tried to find R’lyeh?
21:51 VanessaE ask cthulhu :)
21:51 proller maybe .serialize later make via json?
21:52 PenguinDad He is there so i can't ask him :(
21:52 sfan5 !seen Jeija
21:52 MinetestBot sfan5: Sorry, I haven't seen jeija around.
21:52 proller now its near json, but in wtf format ["pos"] = { ["y"] = 257, ["x"] = 27659, ["z"] = 29274 },
21:52 VanessaE that looks like node_ownership's table format
21:52 Weedy_la1py joined #minetest
21:52 VanessaE (same difference I guess)
21:53 Ritchie VanessaE: moretrees - default_settings.txt - why is beech disabled?
21:53 VanessaE Ritchie: because they're intended to replace the default trees
21:53 VanessaE but when that mod was written, one could not change mapgen settings from within a mod
21:53 VanessaE so I left it disabled.
21:54 VanessaE you have to change your map_meta.txt (I think?) to disable default trees, and then enable beeches in the moretrees settings file.
21:55 Weedy joined #minetest
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21:57 Ritchie VanessaE: ok, thank you
21:58 VanessaE note that this won't actually make default trees disappear from your map if they already exist
21:58 VanessaE it only affects newly-generated land
21:58 VanessaE Weedy: sit still already
21:59 Tesseract sfan5: !seen shows the nick in lowercase in the response.
21:59 Menche set mg_flags to something that does not include trees and new worlds won't have them
21:59 Tesseract Bug?
21:59 sfan5 Tesseract: no
21:59 sfan5 Feature!
21:59 Tesseract Hmmm...
22:00 Ritchie VanessaE: are conductive tubes still in pipeworks mod?
22:00 john_minetest !seen zeg9
22:00 MinetestBot john_minetest: Sorry, I haven't seen zeg9 around.
22:00 Tiktalik i need a exipiraianced coder
22:00 Tiktalik to tell me if minetest is coded sanely
22:00 Ritchie VanessaE: that note is understandable
22:01 Ritchie about generated map and default trees
22:01 LazyJ Hmm... found an old mod in a backed-up world that's not on the forums anymore:  "berrybush"
22:01 Tiktalik or if the code is equal to notchcode in quality
22:01 pitriss VanessaE: Hi. I have two questions about pipeworks mod.. First one: What is difference between sand tube and mese sand tube.. and second one. Did conductive tubes still exists?
22:02 PenguinDad mese sand tubes have a configurable range
22:03 pitriss PenguinDad: ahh ty..:)
22:03 Ritchie that sounds good
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22:05 VanessaE oh sorry
22:05 VanessaE I kinda spaced out :)
22:05 VanessaE Ritchie: yes, as far as I know it still has conductive tubes
22:05 VanessaE brb
22:07 kaeza mouse acted on his own and closed my client ;_;
22:07 VanessaE pitriss: same for you btw :)  conductive tubes are still there, you probably just need to re-enable them (or grab the latest pipeworks, I fixed a bug in the config reading code)
22:08 pitriss VanessaE: ahh okay.. thank you..
22:08 VanessaE sand tubes versus mese sand tubes, one sucks up immediately adjacent items only, the other has a configurable radius for the suck zone :)
22:08 Ritchie VanessaE: thank you too :)
22:08 PenguinDad my mouse sometimes make a doubleclick instead of a singleclick D:
22:08 VanessaE anyways, be sure you get the latest from pipeworks git (that applies whether you use it by itself or as part of technic) to make sure you get that bugfix.
22:10 kaeza PenguinDad, the wire on this one seems to be in very bad shape
22:10 LazyJ VanessaE, could the plantlife mod be configured to create bushes, perhaps short versions of existing moretrees?
22:10 kaeza it sometimes starts warping around the screen clicking everywhere
22:11 kaeza it's...weird
22:11 VanessaE sure, easily.
22:11 Ritchie PenguinDad: bad microswitch under the button
22:11 Ritchie i expeirenced this too
22:11 VanessaE the old nature modpack had a bushes mod that supplied strawberries
22:11 VanessaE that should be very easy to adapt to plants_lib, as it used the old flowers API
22:11 VanessaE which afaik still works
22:11 VanessaE you could make that into anything you wanted.
22:11 Ritchie my friend bought some microswitches and resoldered them
22:12 VanessaE ditto for the old irontrees mod
22:12 LazyJ Yeah, I just stumbled across a "berrybush" mod in one of my backups.
22:12 kaeza lol old nature pack
22:12 kaeza https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/100008207/Captura%20de%20pantalla%20de%202012-10-25%2019%3A20%3A26.png
22:12 LazyJ That's where the bush idea came from.
22:12 VanessaE those two, if modified appropriately, should suit your purposes
22:12 Niften joined #minetest
22:13 VanessaE you may also find the junglegrass mod in plantlife useful since it demonstrates the growing code.
22:13 LazyJ Ah, there is a key component - growth.
22:14 VanessaE there is one bug in plants_lib I keep meaning to fix - the grow node setting (controls what material the item will grow on) is ignored,.
22:14 VanessaE anyone feel like fixing that and also converting plants_lib to use vmanip where possible? :)
22:14 Niften *no reply*
22:14 VanessaE what reply?
22:15 LazyJ Beyond my savvy, atm. :(
22:16 Vazon VanessaE cna you help me?
22:16 Vazon can
22:16 VanessaE maybe :)
22:17 Vazon well im switching everything over to the newest minetest build and i have run into the problem, i moved my server world and all of the mods over but im trying to resetup the server shortcut but it fails
22:18 Vazon here i will give you the debug one sec
22:18 VanessaE er
22:18 VanessaE ok
22:18 LazyJ Vazon, use pastebin for posting large code.
22:18 Vazon Yes i do
22:19 LazyJ :)
22:20 * LazyJ feels the caffeine wearing off... it sorta feels like forehead smashing into keyboard
22:21 Vazon http://pastebin.com/p7iYwmUd
22:21 Vazon there you go
22:21 PilzAdam you cant run 2 servers with the same port on one computer
22:21 Ritchie LazyJ: time to sleep :D
22:21 Ritchie PilzAdam: +1
22:22 Vazon Oops ok let me try that
22:22 * VanessaE hands LazyJ a pot of coffee
22:22 VanessaE strong.  with lots of creamer and sweetener :)
22:22 LazyJ ty, ty.
22:35 jordan4ibanez joined #minetest
22:36 jordan4ibanez Why is there no recent dailybuild for windows?
22:36 VanessaE ask the guys who make them?
22:37 PilzAdam how recent do you want it?
22:38 LazyJ Aren't sfan5's builds done automatically with a script and posted on his site?
22:38 VanessaE don't forget blockmen's and fess's builds too
22:38 VanessaE and I forget who else makes them
22:39 jordan4ibanez Today
22:40 PilzAdam for some reason dropbox decided to be a bitch and uploading my builds just fails...
22:40 VanessaE PilzAdam: why not use that one filedrop that ....aw who was it you was providing it?
22:40 VanessaE s/you/who/
22:41 PilzAdam sfan5?
22:41 VanessaE wasn't it rubenwardy who made one?
22:41 VanessaE maybe it was.  heh, that would be fitting :)
22:41 PilzAdam jordan4ibanez, so you want the translation framework for the mainmenu?
22:42 jordan4ibanez And the player brightening to other players.
22:42 PilzAdam that was yesterday
22:42 SegFault22 joined #minetest
22:42 SegFault22 Well, so much for setting up a server... my other computer seems to not be able to find the hard drive -.-
22:43 VanessaE that ain't good
22:43 VanessaE already lost two here.  hope you have backups
22:44 VanessaE PilzAdam: what's the effect of this player brightening thing anyway?
22:44 SegFault22 It does not store any data that I need.
22:44 PilzAdam do you know the flash when hitting someone?
22:44 VanessaE oh yes
22:44 PilzAdam that know appears when players get damage from e.g. falling or lava
22:45 SegFault22 Well, I;m going to fool with some stuffs insite it and hopefully it'll throw a more solveable error -.-
22:45 SegFault22 inside*
22:45 PilzAdam also the HP displayed when you look at the player in F5-mode is correct
22:46 VanessaE sounds good
22:49 Weedy_lappy joined #minetest
22:52 jordan4ibanez Has the server evolved to the point where we can type in commands into the terminal without logging into the server with a client?
22:52 VanessaE not yet.
22:52 VanessaE but there is at least one mod that allows something like that
22:52 PilzAdam there is a mod for that, you can control your server over IRC
22:52 Ritchie joined #minetest
22:57 VanessaE PilzAdam: I saw a mod somewhere that can read commands (chat?) from a file also
22:57 jordan4ibanez Can Minetest read outside of it's directory into different folders?
23:00 VanessaE not sure
23:01 VanessaE I don't know that there's any restriction on doing so
23:01 VanessaE but I've never tried.
23:02 LinuxGuy2020 joined #minetest
23:02 john_minetest Lua should be able to do this.
23:03 john_minetest And: Who reads mod code?
23:03 john_minetest I never read any code in mods I downloaded...
23:04 LinuxGuy2020 Hello I am running Debian Linux 7.1 and installed this game from the repos, but it seems to be old and has no crafting abilities among other things or maybe Im just a newb at it. Its version 0.3.1. Ive tried a few tutorials on how to compile from source but it didnt seem to work on this version of Debian. How can I get the newer version on here?
23:05 VanessaE don't use the copy in the repo
23:05 LinuxGuy2020 Ok
23:05 VanessaE get it from github or use the nightly build
23:05 * VanessaE runs debian as well
23:05 LinuxGuy2020 Ok Will I need to compile it myself?
23:05 VanessaE if you use the nightly build, no, but it's very easy to do so
23:06 kaeza sokomine, 666 posts O_O
23:06 PilzAdam rw-rw-rw
23:06 VanessaE you evil bitch! :)
23:07 LinuxGuy2020 VanessaE: If Im on the home page where do I need to go to find good directions? Download, source?
23:07 VanessaE https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/README.txt#L83
23:08 VanessaE basically it's like four commands to build it
23:08 LinuxGuy2020 VanessaE: Are you on squeeze or wheezy?
23:08 VanessaE debian 7 here, but I can never remember the damn code name :)
23:08 VanessaE sid I think.
23:08 LinuxGuy2020 Yeah thats what I am on too. good
23:08 VanessaE (testing/unstable)
23:08 PilzAdam VanessaE, why do you recommend the unstable dev version?
23:09 PilzAdam (of Minetest)
23:09 VanessaE PilzAdam: because stable/release is badly out of date already?
23:09 VanessaE PilzAdam: f.ex you can't connect to my server with -stable
23:11 Tesseract sfan5: I checked the cactus farm on the logo skyblock server. Over on stack per plant.
23:11 LinuxGuy2020 VanessaE: Wait a sec. Your on sid?  Maybe thats why it worked for you and not me.
23:12 VanessaE yep
23:12 LinuxGuy2020 I get The following packages have unmet dependencies:  libgl1-mesa-dev : Depends: libgl1-mesa-glx (= 8.0.5-4+deb7u1) but 8.0.5-4+deb7u2 is to be installed
23:12 VanessaE but it should work on other branches also
23:12 VanessaE try using aptitude to install it
23:13 VanessaE it'll offer multiple options
23:13 LinuxGuy2020 Ok
23:15 LinuxGuy2020 VanessaE: Seems to be working so far installing packages. Thank you.
23:15 jordan4ibanez So should I not use the stable release?
23:15 VanessaE LinuxGuy2020:  no prob.  good luck :-)
23:16 VanessaE jordan4ibanez: you can if you want but it's getting a bit long in the tooth already :)
23:16 jordan4ibanez Okay. And, oops, I melted the solder of my speakers when I was stress testing them.
23:17 VanessaE oops
23:17 john_minetest I once killed a mini speaker like the ones in the gameboy by putting 9 volts on it. The plastic melted...
23:18 VanessaE heh
23:19 jordan4ibanez Nice
23:20 youlysses So, I'm attempting to make a local-server for me and my roommates, but when I launch the binary it throws out a "ERROR[main]: Subgame [] could not be found." -- ideas, solutions, etc?
23:20 jordan4ibanez Apparently this melted the track that the cone rides on too, the copper's peeled back.
23:21 PilzAdam youlysses, do you try to run a dedicated server? what OS?
23:21 john_cephalopoda joined #minetest
23:22 youlysses PilzAdam: Fedora 19, and I it's on my home-server computer -- which has little to nothing besides sshfs connections on-it.
23:22 PilzAdam what command do you use to start the server?
23:23 thexyz youlysses: you should specify game name
23:23 thexyz youlysses: use `./bin/minetestserver --gameid list` to list all installed games
23:24 youlysses thexyz: minetest, minimal
23:24 youlysses Oh, I'll be damned.
23:24 hdastwb joined #minetest
23:25 john_cephalopoda joined #minetest
23:34 youlysses Should the last-thing in my term's log be "creative inventory size: 111"?
23:37 youlysses It's not very obvious-if the server has started successfully.. when I type the ip in the address on one of the clients, it seems to try and connect, but it just stays at the "connecting to server" screen.
23:39 youlysses Maybe it's because I seem to be missing a server config-file...?
23:42 PilzAdam if it says something like "01:42:19: ACTION[main]: Server for gameid="minimal" listening on port 30000." then it runs
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