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IRC log for #minetest-hub, 2018-01-06

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:24 red-001 huh shivaninja isn't a registered nick
00:32 red-001 btw if anyone comes across a phishing page https://safebrowsing.google.c​om/safebrowsing/report_phish/
01:10 Sokomine joined #minetest-hub
01:15 Fixer joined #minetest-hub
01:16 benrob0329 Wb Sokomine, Fixer
01:18 * Sokomine piles up a few blocks and constructs a new house
01:19 Megaf Bah, engadget.com is just a white blank page without JavaScript
01:19 Megaf F**** them
01:20 Megaf not enabling JS
01:20 Megaf Not giving them cookies either
01:20 Sokomine Megaf: yes, it's surprising to see how many web pages are out there where the creators don't really want to tell anything. makes you wonder why they created a web page in the first place
01:21 red-001 Megaf, at least it looks better then with JS on
01:22 Megaf wired.com works just fine without JS and cookies
01:22 Megaf will read the article about the same stuff in wired.com instead
01:23 Megaf nice thing is that ads at wired.com dont work without JS :D
01:28 * benrob0329 's website doesn't use any JS :PP
01:29 * red-001 's website doesn't even need html
01:29 * rubenwardy 's site doesn't require JS
01:31 paramat joined #minetest-hub
01:39 * Megaf 's website doesnt require JS nor sets/uses cookies
01:39 Megaf you need to have a browser capable of displaying HTML5 tho
01:45 rubenwardy ew
01:45 rubenwardy you use wordpress.com to host
01:59 Megaf I'm not talking about that website
02:00 Megaf and wordpress.com is free...
02:00 Megaf (ish)
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03:43 benrob0329 Megaf: github pages is free too :P
03:44 rubenwardy <3
03:44 rubenwardy it's pretty sweet
03:45 rubenwardy although no HTTPS yet :'(
03:46 benrob0329 I thought it had https..might be wrong
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04:58 Megaf benrob0329: not very good for blog I'm afraid
04:59 Megaf and wordpress is open source
04:59 Megaf github isnt
04:59 benrob0329 Megaf: WordPress is, WordPress.com is not
04:59 benrob0329 WordPress.com also has ads
06:09 Roger9 * red-001 's website doesn't even need html
06:22 roben1430 text only sites are boring though :P
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10:05 rubenwardy Megaf: false on two counts
10:05 rubenwardy blog.rubenwardy.com
10:05 rubenwardy Github pages is just as open source as wordpress.com
10:05 rubenwardy They're both companies offering hosting services
10:06 rubenwardy And they both inject 0 proprietary code into the website
10:06 rubenwardy Well, github pages doesn't inject any proprietary code
10:19 Darcidride joined #minetest-hub
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12:51 Calinou indeed, GitHub Pages lets you put whatever HTML/CSS/JS you want
12:51 Calinou (including none, if you want)
12:59 Megaf !server Megaf
12:59 MinetestBot Megaf: Megaf Server V4.17 | mt.megaf.info:30003 | Clients: 0/10, 0/1 | Version: 0.4.17-Megaf / MegafXploreNext | Ping: 13ms
12:59 Megaf Morning all
13:00 Megaf What you think? http://www.dx.com/p/uhappy-ur01-ultra-thin-cle​aning-robot-vacuum-cleaner-sweeper-red-462791#.WlDHL2TwYnM
13:13 Megaf !title
13:13 MinetestBot Megaf: UHAPPY UR01 Ultra-thin Cleaning Robot Vacuum Cleaner Sweeper - Red - Free Shipping - DealExtreme
13:14 lumberJ joined #minetest-hub
13:23 Krock Megaf, that one sucks, literally.
13:29 lisac joined #minetest-hub
13:36 Megaf I was searching for something to clear my bedrooms carpet
13:36 Megaf just the bedroom
13:46 Megaf Plugged in an old laptop I have, Debian Squeeze :)
13:46 Megaf Pentium II 300MHz laptop
13:46 Megaf still work
13:46 Megaf battery even lasts a couple of minutes
14:01 Fixer https://github.com/ionescu007/SpecuCheck
14:37 IhrFussel joined #minetest-hub
14:40 IhrFussel I got a problem: One of my players says he cannot craft in his inventory anymore, no matter what recipe he puts nothing appears
14:42 Shara Hi all
14:42 Shara Fussel, didn't you get that with someone once before?
14:43 IhrFussel Shara, I just found abriglass:hidden_light in his craft grid and wonder how he got that ... that seems to be the problem
14:43 Shara Hmm
14:43 Shara I'm pretty sure that's not in creative by default
14:43 Shara And even if it was, he could just remove it
14:44 Shara groups = {cracky = 3, not_in_creative_inventory=1},
14:44 Shara And has no recipe
14:44 Shara So you can only get it with /give
14:44 Shara (or by picking it up)
14:44 IhrFussel And no inventory image too?
14:45 Shara considering we really only ever used it as an admin only item for lighting special areas, there was never a need
14:45 Shara You do get scrollover text and should still see the number indicating how many you have
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14:46 IhrFussel The number is not there if it#s just one
14:46 Shara Still , a normal player should never be able to get it
14:46 IhrFussel I know... must've been one of my moderators and probably with good reason
14:47 Shara There's generally never a good reason to let normal players get items that are specifically excluded from usual access
14:48 IhrFussel He says he found it somewhere in bones xP
14:48 Shara Hah
14:48 jas_ joined #minetest-hub
14:48 Shara Then he clearly knew he had it and clearly moved it to his own crafting grid, so he was being a bit silly to not remove it again :P
14:49 Shara If you want an inventory image added, feel free to find or make a suitable one. As long as it's okay looking I'd accept it in a PR as well
14:50 Shara Or even add it myself if you don't want to make the PR. I just don't have time to try and figure out an image myself right now.
14:52 Shara Will just add an issue for now so it's not forgotten.
14:54 IhrFussel It's not a huge issue, but if a certain item has no inventory image and you only have 1 of it and play on mobile then... it can get pretty frustrating
14:55 Shara https://github.com/Ezhh/abriglass/issues/6
14:56 Shara No objections beyond shortage of time to work on images
14:56 Shara Textures are the bane of my MT existance
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15:19 rubenwardy Shara, thought that was formspecs?
15:26 benrob0329 Why are we supporting LuaJIT if it's broken and Lua5.3 is faster anyways?
15:26 rubenwardy Lua is not faster
15:26 rubenwardy wait, Lua5.3 is faster?
15:28 benrob0329 rubenwardy: https://github.com/minetest/minetest​/issues/2988#issuecomment-128806080
15:28 rubenwardy on that one case
15:29 rubenwardy that's also memory allocations, not calculations
15:29 rubenwardy ie: it's massively turning over memory
15:29 benrob0329 Its difficult to test 5.3 MT performance as we only support 5.1 afaik
15:30 benrob0329 (Two versions behind, *cough*)
15:30 rubenwardy you can still do language benchmarks
15:30 benrob0329 Shall I adapt my Pi caclulator benchmark?
15:31 rubenwardy maybe
15:32 rubenwardy iirc, LuaJIT exceeds at function calls
15:32 rubenwardy as it predicts and preloads, I believe
15:32 rubenwardy *excels
15:36 rubenwardy inb4 let's fork LuaJIT!
15:36 benrob0329 rubenwardy: https://www.reddit.com/r/lua/comments/2​zutj8/mike_pall_luajit_dislikes_lua_53/
15:37 benrob0329 Also read top comment
15:38 rubenwardy I don't really care that much about Lua 5.3
15:38 rubenwardy I do care about the memory limit
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15:42 benrob0329 rubenwardy: if 5.3 is at least competitive with LuaJIT, then why not care? It has fewer memory issues and is the latest version of the language
15:42 rubenwardy it's slower
15:42 benrob0329 Have you tested it?
15:44 rubenwardy I've found benchmarks on the internet which show that
15:48 benrob0329 Fair enough, still though UTF8 library
15:49 rubenwardy cloudflare are offering to employ someone to maintain the LuaJIT library
15:49 rubenwardy according to Mike Pall on a GH issue
15:50 rubenwardy but they can't find anyone suitabk
15:53 IhrFussel Are we talking µs difference or ms difference when we say LuaJIT is faster?
15:54 Krock IhrFussel, percentage is a better way to show that. Not in seconds, unless the same test script is used for all
15:57 IhrFussel If I'd imagine every single mod on my server to be 50% slower with regular lua ... then it wouldn't make that much of a difference actually... and the mod profiler reports the times as µs that's why I was asking
15:57 * Megaf will try to make a floppy version of Minetest
15:57 Shara rubenwardy: textures+formspecs then
15:59 IhrFussel Most most heavy mods take 20-30 ms to execute on average... I don't think a jump to 40-50 ms would be noticable
15:59 IhrFussel -most*
16:00 rubenwardy IhrFussel, up to 64x faster
16:00 rubenwardy depends on the calculations
16:01 rubenwardy very maths heavy stuff with function calls will bring you up to 64x better
16:01 rubenwardy but it wouldn't be as good as that in reality
16:03 rubenwardy <@rubenwardy> IhrFussel, up to 64x faster
16:03 rubenwardy <@rubenwardy> depends on the calculations
16:03 rubenwardy <@rubenwardy> very maths heavy stuff with function calls will bring you up to 64x better
16:03 rubenwardy <@rubenwardy> but it wouldn't be as good as that in reality
16:03 rubenwardy <test> hi
16:03 Sokomine Shara: same here. if it's glass - maybe you can take the normal glass cube texture and put an exclamation mark on it (after all it's just for moderators)
16:04 Shara Maybe, but that's... I don't know.
16:05 Shara The mod has it's own glass, so using default glass texture would be weird.. while the mods own wouldn't show since it's just cubes of colour
16:06 Sokomine better than nothing at all. and anyone frustrated by the texture might be motivated to provide a better one
16:07 Shara I'll probably eventually make one if people don't add one
16:07 Shara add/provide*
16:15 IhrFussel Okay it's definitely NOT the vehcicle mod regarding the sudden slowdown/halt of cars... the exact same happens with horses...I seriously think you broke something in 0.4.17
16:15 IhrFussel vehicle*
16:19 IhrFussel Here is a video showing it with a horse http://94.16.121.151/mt5.mp4
16:24 Raven262 joined #minetest-hub
16:25 Shara What decides the age of a server that displays on the server list? We've got a two years+ old server that suddenly shows as only a few days old, and would liek to fix that if possible
16:25 rubenwardy game_time in world.mt
16:25 Shara Awesome thanks
16:25 rubenwardy it's in seconds
16:25 Shara No interesting in lying about it's age, but it should show what it is
16:26 Shara interest*
16:27 IhrFussel I guess I will have to look through all backported PRs myself
16:27 NathanS21 joined #minetest-hub
16:29 Shara My only back up for that server doesn't have game_time in world.mt...
16:30 rubenwardy env_meta
16:30 rubenwardy maybe
16:30 Shara okay, there :)
16:30 Megaf Shara: my server is show much younger than it is too
16:31 Shara This isn't one of my actual servers, just one I help on
16:31 Megaf rubenwardy: hm, my env_meta got corrupted when my server was around 2 years old
16:31 Megaf that explains a lot
16:31 Shara And they've been trying to fix issues with the mods, but it seems env meta got deleted by mistake
16:31 Megaf Shara: MT likes messing up world.mt and env_meta from time to time
16:31 Megaf always have a backup of them
16:32 IhrFussel I find absolutely nothing about entities/velocity/collision in the backported PRs ... so I need someone else to confirm this bug with 0.4.17 before I can blame it ... anyone got a 0.4.17 server/client and any vehicle/attach mod and can test it?
16:32 Shara Megaf: my own servers do
16:34 Shara But if I started making local backups of all servers I help with as well, I'd soon have no space left anywhere
16:34 Megaf sfan5: any chance you can do a check in the logs of the server list to check when a server first showed up?
16:35 Megaf I'd like to know when the server After The End showed up for the first time
16:35 Megaf That's how Megaf Server V4 was called
16:36 Megaf After The End is a cotninuation of Till It Ends
16:36 Sokomine Megaf: oh yes. beeing able to see from when to when a server existed would be great
16:37 Megaf I mostly want that so I can adjust my env_meta.txt to actually match my servers real age
16:37 Megaf not sure if there's any timestamp in map.sqlite I could look at thouh
16:37 Megaf or anywhere else
16:43 IhrFussel My debug.txt is FULL OF "moved too fast; resetting position" ... that can't be right
16:44 IhrFussel It's logged several times per second??
16:45 Sokomine IhrFussel: turn off anticheat?
16:45 Megaf IhrFussel: the moved to fast is just lag
16:46 Megaf either in your server or players connection
16:46 Megaf anticheat is ish elding players back and flooding your debug
16:46 IhrFussel How can it lag several times per second? The highest lag my server experienced in the last 24 hours was 1.1 sec
16:47 Megaf IhrFussel: It's Minetest, just accept it
16:48 rubenwardy it's printed when the client tries to move to a position too far away
16:48 rubenwardy it can happen multiple times if packets are held back
16:49 rubenwardy ie: it could receive a load of packets in a secound which are too far away, each packet having been emitted by the client one after another
16:49 rubenwardy a more concise way to explain would probably be: the client doesn't know that it's moved too fast yet, so keeps sending packets in the wrong position
16:49 IhrFussel Okay thanks for the explanation ... tunring off anti cheat is no option cause of that Android bug and I wouldn't recommend anyone to disable it
16:49 Megaf rubenwardy: I just dont quite understnad that happening with UDP
16:50 Megaf UDP packages should be just dropped
16:50 Megaf and not resent
16:50 Megaf that's the whole idea behind UDP
16:50 IhrFussel But now I just checked if the many log entries already happened in 0.4.16 and they did... so the bug must be caused by something other than anti cheat
16:51 * Shara has huge problems with anticheat and no clue how to fix them
16:51 rubenwardy the message is from anticheat
16:51 rubenwardy but the bug is generally networking related
16:51 IhrFussel I mean the stopping entity bug when trying to move fast
16:52 Shara anticheat enabled on DL means people can't use mounts without getting weird jerky movement and so on
16:52 rubenwardy I've not experienced that
16:52 Shara Apparently it objects to how fast dragons fly :(
16:52 IhrFussel It only happens in 0.4.17 which I upgraded my server to recently
16:53 benrob0329 rubenwardy: 15.398s Lua5.3, 0.686s LuaJIT
16:54 IhrFussel It's not related to server lag (max_lag 0.2), not related to anticheat cause no entries happened when the entity gets reset, not related to map loading cause the map parts are clearly there
16:54 benrob0329 rubenwardy: Lua5.1 10.983s
16:55 rubenwardy so it's dropped in performance on that benchmark? :O
16:55 rubenwardy problem with benchmarks is there's lots you can perform
16:55 rubenwardy except when it comes to Minetest, no benchmarks to be found!
16:55 benrob0329 Indeed, this is a Pi calculation benchmark
16:55 benrob0329 Yes there are
16:55 benrob0329 I made one :P
16:56 benrob0329 Also, Lua5.3 uses 64bit numbers now iirc, so that could be the cause of the performance drop
16:56 benrob0329 I read something along those lines while looking into it earlier
16:57 rubenwardy oh dear
16:57 rubenwardy wait
16:58 rubenwardy Lua has always used doubles
16:58 rubenwardy which are 64bit
16:58 rubenwardy #define LUA_NUMBER double
16:59 benrob0329 https://www.reddit.com/r/lua/commen​ts/3x9abq/lua_51_vs_53_performance/
17:00 benrob0329 >My random guess is it's to do with the defaulting to 64 bit integers in 5.3
17:00 Jordach joined #minetest-hub
17:08 rubenwardy tempted to auto-kick everyone that types "gamemode 1" with "This ain't Minecraft,"
17:08 benrob0329 rubenwardy: lol
17:09 benrob0329 I'm tempted to say that MT needs to either only support official lua or only support LuaJIT
17:09 Megaf rubenwardy: I support that idea
17:09 rubenwardy or fork LuaJIT
17:09 rubenwardy yeah!
17:09 rubenwardy :/
17:09 * Shara totally supports that auto-kick
17:09 benrob0329 If they continue to drift apart supporting both could be problematic
17:09 NathanS21 joined #minetest-hub
17:09 rubenwardy I currently know how to write a simple interpreter
17:09 benrob0329 Itd like supporting both d3d and opengl
17:09 IhrFussel A longer video showing it ... maybe you guys can tell me what exactly could cause it ... you also see that it only happens when I cross a certain speed http://94.16.121.151/mt6.mp4
17:10 Krock rubenwardy, parse everything with regex >:)
17:10 rubenwardy I wonder how long it would take me to learn how to write JIT compilation and compiler optimisations
17:10 Megaf we should support only OpenGL, only LuaJIT,
17:10 rubenwardy lol
17:10 * rubenwardy slaps Krock
17:10 * Krock feels hurt
17:10 rubenwardy Turing complete languages aren't regular!
17:10 Krock is it wrong to be special?
17:10 Megaf benrob0329: did you benchmark Lua vs LuaJIT in Minetest already?
17:12 benrob0329 Megaf: raw lua vs luajit
17:12 rubenwardy benchmarking lua only stuff in Minetest is pointless
17:13 rubenwardy you'd need to benchmark how well it performs with eg: LVM and C calls
17:13 rubenwardy and calls from C into the language
17:13 rubenwardy otherwise you might as well just use the pure interpreters
17:16 Megaf all I know is that Im going to the swiming pool in 45 minutes
17:16 Megaf rubenwardy: has anyone done that?
17:16 Megaf we have Lua and LuaJit and nobody knows which is best
17:17 rubenwardy Well, LuaJIT is definitely going to be faster
17:18 rubenwardy But it has the memory limit and hasn't got any of the newer language features
17:26 benrob0329 So you have to choose between speed for featureset
17:26 benrob0329 *or
17:29 Megaf dd if=/dev/sdb of=/dev/null bs=1M count=100
17:29 Megaf 104857600 bytes (105 MB) copied, 103.933 s, 1.0 MB/s
17:29 Megaf dat speed^
17:29 Megaf USB 1.0 in a Pentium II laptop
17:30 IhrFussel 104857600 bytes (105 MB, 100 MiB) copied, 0,123625 s, 848 MB/s
17:30 Megaf benrob0329: I think I will begin to use default Lua
17:31 IhrFussel 848 MB/s isn't that fast considering it's a SSD I think
17:33 Megaf 104857600 bytes (105 MB) copied, 0.125758 s, 834 MB/s
17:33 Megaf IhrFussel: try bs=10M count=10
17:33 Megaf 104857600 bytes (105 MB) copied, 0.0390658 s, 2.7 GB/s
17:34 Megaf my VPS SSD ˆ^ˆ^ˆ^ˆ^
17:34 IhrFussel 2.2 GB/s
17:35 benrob0329 joined #minetest-hub
17:36 Megaf IhrFussel: but thats cached data
17:36 benrob0329 IRC on a mobile connection, not too great
17:36 Megaf IhrFussel: a more realistic thing would be bs=1024M count=1
17:37 Megaf that should overwhealm your cache
17:37 benrob0329 Gonna be out for the day, o/
17:37 Megaf cya benrob0329
17:37 Megaf enjpy
17:37 benrob0329 Feel free to kick me if the matrix bridge doesnt remove my user
17:37 benrob0329 left #minetest-hub
17:38 sfan5 Megaf: there's no logs about when a server first appeared
17:38 sfan5 but if you remember the IP that announced it, I can check the webserver logs
17:40 Megaf sfan5: dynamic IP...
17:40 Megaf I could guess the domain
17:40 sfan5 you're out of luck then
17:41 Megaf well, I know it would be somewhere not long before April 2012
17:41 Megaf I know because my server started at the same time I started dating my ex
17:42 Megaf Though I still have my server...
17:42 Megaf You got to get your priorities straghit
17:42 Megaf she said, its your server or me!
17:42 Megaf So I decided to keep my server! Of course
17:43 Megaf (*that is not a true story at all)
17:46 sfan5 uh
17:47 sfan5 Megaf: I run the server list since the beginning(?) of 2016, so even if such logs would exist I would not have then
17:50 rubenwardy who ran it before?
17:51 Megaf Do, I adjusted my servers age to reflect its real age http://servers.minetest.net/
17:51 Megaf 5.9 years
17:51 rubenwardy lol
17:51 rubenwardy I suspect that isn't true
17:52 Megaf rubenwardy: I did start it at the same time I started dating my ex, that is true story
17:52 Megaf that was around March 2012
17:52 rubenwardy when did you join the forums in comparison?
17:52 Megaf I joined the forums years after I had my server
17:53 rubenwardy ah, so it was a private server
17:53 Megaf public
17:53 Megaf but not in the forums
17:53 rubenwardy without a forum topic?
17:53 rubenwardy there was no server list
17:53 Megaf I was and I am on IRC, why forum?
17:53 sfan5 rubenwardy: did it exist before that?
17:53 Megaf you can track IRC logs and see when I first showed up here
17:53 rubenwardy that's how you found servers in those days
17:54 rubenwardy oh well, just interested
17:54 Megaf Joined:Fri Nov 01, 2013 4:00 pm
17:54 Megaf time I joined the forum
17:54 rubenwardy sfan5, swear the server list was early - mid 2014
17:55 sfan5 rubenwardy: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/comm​it/ee07c3f7cf638e854518d2cfcb9c11a64412cc​72#diff-f71ce78417ed4fd4fc2156fb4120ba31
17:55 sfan5 so xyz probably ran it before that
17:55 rubenwardy ah, 2013
17:55 red-001 was that minetest.ru domain their?
17:55 Megaf 24 Dec 2013 when was my server was back after been offline of a long time
17:55 sfan5 yes
17:57 Megaf 24/04/2014 server was renamed back to Megaf Server
17:58 Megaf Krock: your 500th post was in my servers topic, remember?
17:58 Megaf https://forum.minetest.net/vi​ewtopic.php?p=129535#p129535
17:59 Krock how exactly is that still relevant?
18:00 Megaf in my brain, time is different
18:00 Megaf fact
18:00 Krock in fact it runs backwards?
18:00 Megaf I don't make distinction of things that happened 20 years ago or tomorrow
18:00 Megaf I still remember all the same
18:00 Megaf kinda like photographic memory, but full of holes
18:00 Megaf I dont forget what happened, but I can register time
18:01 Megaf cant register time*
18:01 Megaf my RTC battery must be worn out
18:02 Megaf swiming pool time, cya all
18:08 Raven262 joined #minetest-hub
18:14 Krock Can someone break this 7-times-in-a-row-posting? https://forum.minetest.net/vi​ewtopic.php?p=307182#p307182
18:14 Krock ^ rubenwardy, perhaps? :)
18:15 Krock after so many attempts he didn't figure out that it's the scaling algorithm that makes the difference
18:15 rubenwardy messaged
18:16 Krock Great, thanks
18:18 rubenwardy also split
18:18 sofar and posted some actual game screenhots
18:22 rubenwardy there's always the same suspects
18:22 rubenwardy azekill_DIABLO
18:22 rubenwardy Chibi ghost
18:23 Krock hint: the posting.php?mode=edit... is not accessible for regular forum users
18:23 red-001 ^
18:23 rubenwardy what?
18:24 Krock also, it's a post edit link, which would disallow that for non-moderators anyway
18:24 rubenwardy for posts or topics?
18:24 red-001 Information
18:24 red-001 You cannot edit posts in this forum.
18:24 rubenwardy oh oops
18:24 rubenwardy wrong link
18:24 Krock https://forum.minetest.net/v​iewtopic.php?f=3&amp;t=19307
18:25 red-001 thats how small the code for image compare in jave is?
18:25 red-001 I think python just lost it's job as being peusdocode
18:26 red-001 at*
18:26 rubenwardy it depends on the libraries used
18:26 rubenwardy with OpenCV you could do it in 4 lines
18:26 rubenwardy no including includes
18:26 rubenwardy in C, that is
18:26 red-001 ah is javax not standard lib?
18:26 rubenwardy not sure
18:28 red-001 huh weird if I hold my mouse at a certain angle the pointer just goes crazy
18:30 nerzhul joined #minetest-hub
18:32 rubenwardy does anyone kknow off the back of their hand what the control character for colors is?
18:32 rubenwardy in Minetest chat
18:32 rubenwardy ah, 0x1b
18:32 rubenwardy a user is posting messages with 0x10
18:33 rubenwardy (backspace)
18:33 rubenwardy which is odd
18:34 rubenwardy asked them if they use any CSM mods, and what their keyboard was, and they said:
18:34 rubenwardy <Natchou> No sorry Ruben, and you?
18:37 red-001 I guess you could post 0x10 with CSM, not sure why you would
18:37 Krock ESC
18:38 red-001 rubenwardy, buggy android client is my guess
18:38 Krock using CSM.. that sounds promising as I can't paste control characters in the chat prompt
18:38 rubenwardy it's worth stripping control characters, I guess
18:39 rubenwardy including /n /r etc
18:39 red-001 Krock, use windows
18:39 red-001 somehow that works on windows but not linux
18:39 Krock red-001, or Wine
18:56 Mr_Pardison joined #minetest-hub
20:04 nerzhul if i remeber we strip things in CSM chat sending to have proper text no ?
20:36 paramat joined #minetest-hub
20:39 Fixer joined #minetest-hub
21:04 paramat rubenwardy azekill_DIABLO's overposting is irritating on the forum, but i almost feel i can't complain =/ seems to be almost every other post in screenshots. their avatar is suitable
21:05 rubenwardy yeah
21:25 Fixer paramat: join the shitpost, if you can't fight it... become it
21:25 Shara paramat: this is why I try to avoid looking in certain forums/topics
21:26 red-001 Q. Why do devs avoid the forum
21:26 red-001 A. see above
21:33 paramat i have my account configured to not display their posts
21:34 red-001 I tried to use css but it tends to look a bit weird
21:35 Fixer paramat: is this possible? o_0
21:36 rubenwardy foo
21:36 rubenwardy *foes
21:36 rubenwardy it breaks the forum though
21:36 rubenwardy as it may cause mismatching HTML brackets
21:36 rubenwardy but in most cases it works
21:57 Fixer hmmm
22:26 Fixer joined #minetest-hub
22:53 Megaf Hi all
22:53 Megaf !server Megaf
22:53 MinetestBot Megaf: Megaf Server V4.17 | mt.megaf.info:30003 | Clients: 0/10, 0/1 | Version: 0.4.17-Megaf / MegafXploreNext | Ping: 12ms
22:55 IhrFussel My server is at the top of the server list right now...I wouldn't have thought that this happens again someday
22:55 IhrFussel Probably the [2018] in the name
22:56 Megaf meh, that's great. I just don't have any motivation for my server anymore
22:57 Megaf Minetest for me is jsut pain and frustration
22:57 Megaf And I'm not alone in that thinking
22:57 Megaf HOPEFULLY things will get better with 0.5
22:57 IhrFussel You should try to add [NEW] to your server name and see if it suddenly gets popular again
22:58 Flitzpiepe Megaf which one is your server?
22:58 sofar ITB barely gets in the top 40, lol
22:58 Megaf Flitzpiepe: couple of lines above
22:58 rubenwardy IhrFussel, having sban issues on my server
22:58 rubenwardy hence why it's offline
22:58 Megaf I have had servers in the top 5 already
22:59 Megaf I just never cared about it
22:59 sofar rubenwardy: way to burst the bubble
22:59 rubenwardy also can't seem to ban a user by IP using UFW
22:59 Flitzpiepe thanks MegaF
22:59 Megaf rubenwardy: don't use sban
22:59 Megaf use future_ban
22:59 rubenwardy heh
22:59 sofar rubenwardy: what issues? I just pushed a bunch of stuff to it earlier
22:59 rubenwardy xban isn't even working
22:59 rubenwardy sofar: an IPv6 player isn't being banned
22:59 * Megaf hates sban
22:59 * Megaf loves future_ban
22:59 rubenwardy they can join from the same IP address
22:59 rubenwardy and in ban_record it shows as a separate record
23:00 sofar oh, let's fix it then
23:00 rubenwardy ie: not the same number of records or usernames
23:00 sfan5 >ufw
23:00 sfan5 should've used ip6tables
23:00 rubenwardy ufw is nicer
23:00 EvergreenTree joined #minetest-hub
23:00 sofar ipset
23:01 Megaf For the record, I don't really hate sban
23:01 Megaf I just like future_ban and had no need, yet, for sban
23:03 Flitzpiepe MegaF: what to do to get interact- and home-priv?
23:03 rubenwardy err, /etc/sysconfig doesn't exist so I can't edit /etc/sysconfig/ip6tables
23:04 Megaf Flitzpiepe: go back to the chat there
23:04 Flitzpiepe ok
23:10 * Shara pokes the Megaf
23:10 Shara No hating sban allowed. :)
23:10 Megaf Shara: it better be a very long stick
23:10 Shara Who said I'm using a stick?
23:11 Shara FIxed one tiny problem there anyway
23:16 Megaf <ACTION> 2018-01-06 23:15:24: [Server] CHAT: <Megaf> Minetest-Hub is a great place for this exchange of ideas
23:16 Megaf <ACTION> 2018-01-06 23:15:51: [Server] CHAT: <Megaf> Maybe all I need to motivate me again is some new good active players
23:16 Shara Good players is the best motivation
23:17 sofar aye
23:18 Megaf By the way, my todays project is a floppy based Minetest game
23:18 sofar thank goodness to https://minetest.foo-projects.org/rankings.html
23:18 Megaf I want to put Minetest in a floppy and run it from there
23:18 Flitzpiepe Hi Shara
23:19 rubenwardy aaahhh
23:19 rubenwardy the ban didn't work because I copied the wrong IP address
23:19 rubenwardy jeez
23:19 Shara seriously? :D
23:19 sofar ip6 can be tricky
23:19 sofar lol
23:19 rubenwardy well, that's the second issue
23:19 sofar ::1
23:19 rubenwardy the first issue was I copied the right IP address, but the rules were in the wrong order
23:20 rubenwardy it did ALLOW ALL 30000,   then DENY FROM <IP>
23:20 sys4 joined #minetest-hub
23:20 rubenwardy yay, the bad player timed out! :P
23:21 IhrFussel Can MT even handle IPv6 only?
23:21 Megaf it can handle ipv6, not sure if you can block ipv4
23:21 IhrFussel I think I never saw a IPv6 address in the logs
23:21 sofar yes, it can
23:21 sofar I have plenty of ipv6 players on my server
23:21 sfan5 IhrFussel: that's because your server is announcing by it's v4 IP
23:21 * Megaf fires up it's building server
23:22 IhrFussel sfan5, so it only supports ipv4 or what?
23:22 Megaf lets see how small I can get MT to be
23:22 sfan5 IhrFussel: effectively yes
23:23 sfan5 even if clients support IPv6, they don't know your servers address so they fall back to IPv4
23:23 IhrFussel I thought every Ipv6 address right now also has a IPv4 one
23:23 sfan5 no that's not how it works
23:23 rubenwardy the majority do
23:24 rubenwardy but it is technically possible to have an IPv6 only server
23:24 IhrFussel Wait so you are telling me I "block" IPv6 only players?
23:25 sfan5 if you don't have ipv4 support 90% of the internet will just not work
23:25 sfan5 such people don't exist
23:25 Fixer joined #minetest-hub
23:26 paramat Megaf your pain and frustration is understandable but is mostly not MT's fault. i helped with your issues and we discovered it is due to badly coded or outdated mods, or mods relying on broken behaviour that was fixed, or due to your own level of lua coding ability. however you have a habit of automatically blaming MT and the devs for everything, don't you? =)
23:26 rubenwardy jeez, I have too many passwords
23:26 rubenwardy I use a password manager, but that doesn't work with Minetest
23:26 rubenwardy no idea what my private server password is
23:27 paramat your problems likely have a rational explanation, don't blame MT until you know the cause =)
23:27 VanessaE paramat: doesn't that sound like someone else we all know? :)
23:27 Megaf paramat: I'm not talking about the mods issues ;)
23:27 rubenwardy salllltttt
23:27 rubenwardy :/
23:27 Megaf I really don't mind about them and they are usually easily fixable
23:29 paramat ok, what's the issue?
23:30 sofar seems I never had ip6 enabled to my media server, no wonder I never see ip6 ips in my nginx logs
23:30 paramat running a server requires pretty good lua skills, so i'm unsurprised you're finding it tough =)
23:33 Megaf paramat: well, you affirmation just became one of my issues
23:34 Fixer hmmm
23:34 Megaf paramat: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=8031
23:34 Megaf !title
23:34 MinetestBot Megaf: Lack of quality control and speed - Minetest Forums
23:34 Fixer my old avast from 2011 with new databases is dead after meltdown patch, i'm sad, it is not like i liked it, but now i need to choose other one from the %%%% pile
23:34 Megaf Tue Dec 17, 2013 23:35
23:35 Megaf Shara: have you have read that topic? ^
23:35 paramat ok, apart from that though?
23:35 Megaf and cheapie was right
23:35 Fixer ms says i need microcode update for spectre mitigation, my last bios is from 2014, i'm screwed? or i can update it manually?
23:36 paramat oh
23:36 sofar microcode is a userspace thing
23:36 Megaf paramat: my topic from 2013 says part of my issues https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=8031
23:36 sofar linux has a tool for it
23:36 Megaf sofar: as in CPU microcode?
23:36 sofar https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/microcode e.g.
23:36 Fixer ms said, wait for microcode update (but not from us), so i sit and ...
23:37 Shara I have a mod to write, an argument to win and study to do! No time for reading ancient threads, Megaf!
23:37 * sofar & more golang
23:37 Megaf argument to win, interesting
23:38 Fixer according to https://github.com/ionescu007/SpecuCheck i have meltdown patch, but not spectre one
23:38 Shara Not really. It's very sad and will likely cause the death of a server, but that's how it goes :(
23:38 Megaf Shara: so just let it be
23:39 Megaf study would be more important than killing a server I recon
23:39 Shara Not that simple, but it is what it is. I think I'll write the mod instead.
23:39 rubenwardy buu buuutt
23:39 rubenwardy she needs to work on cool mods!
23:40 Shara But rubenwardy.. it's not a cool one!
23:40 Shara I wish it was
23:40 * rubenwardy too, is flipping between Minetest and studying
23:40 paramat concerning your post: our quality is reasonable. media download time has nothing to do with MT quality, that's due to your server or client connection speed
23:40 Shara I've been trying to check what I need to read next for study for the past hour... but I can't seem to focus long enough to open the university site :)
23:41 Fixer http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/ho​w-to-update-microcode-from-windows.787152/
23:41 paramat buggy commits are pushed to GIT during dev that's inevitable, use stable releases
23:42 rubenwardy we simply need more automated testing
23:42 rubenwardy and more testers
23:42 Shara ^
23:42 rubenwardy and more good devs
23:42 Shara Find me a non-annoying way to compile on windows so I don't need a different machine for it, and I'll gladly test more things
23:42 paramat 'make a board / testing team' all of us are that already. we bug hunt during freeze. we are always optimising speed
23:43 rubenwardy heh
23:43 Shara rubenwardy: basically we need mroe everything
23:43 Shara more*
23:43 rubenwardy certain users are optimising
23:43 Shara But for me, mostly more tea...
23:43 * Shara heads for kitchen :P
23:43 rubenwardy most work on dev important maintenance and new features
23:43 rubenwardy s/certain users/certain devs/g
23:44 rubenwardy me, I talk a lot and occasionally submit PRs
23:46 sofar I yell when everyone is asleep
23:47 paramat however i do agree that the focus could shift a little more towards bugfixes and stability over complex/problematic new features
23:49 Megaf DATˆ ^^^^^^^^^ˆ
23:49 Shara Yes please
23:49 rubenwardy yeah
23:49 Megaf Stop with new features and fix features we already have!
23:49 paramat hopefuly we've learnt from CSM :}
23:49 Megaf paramat: v5, v6, v7, and all the other mapgens is one of my issues WITH MT
23:50 Megaf also the huge number of database support
23:50 rubenwardy probably is that sometimes fixing features needs more features
23:50 Megaf also Lua and LuaJIT
23:50 rubenwardy lol
23:50 Megaf you are multiplicating every single feature/thing and fixing none
23:50 Shara paramat: no, since CSM is still sitting there being CSM
23:50 rubenwardy that's very low technical debt
23:50 Shara Is anyone working on server provided CSM?
23:51 rubenwardy all the different databases / mapgens are implemented as separate classes
23:51 Megaf make a single good, stable and fast database backend, a good customaziable mapgen
23:51 rubenwardy so are self-contained
23:51 rubenwardy ha!
23:51 Megaf KILL CSM FOR THE LOVE OD GOD
23:51 rubenwardy you can't make a single good database
23:51 Megaf OF*
23:51 rubenwardy like you can't make a single good language
23:51 Megaf ruben, sqlite is almost perfect for our usecase
23:51 rubenwardy as for Lua vs LuaJIT - they both have the same API
23:51 sofar there is a sane reason for having several db backends
23:51 Megaf fast, flexible, stable
23:51 rubenwardy it's not for servers
23:52 paramat gah, i didn't mean new mapgens
23:52 rubenwardy there is no in-memory caching anywhere, so you have to keep more blocks in MT itself to avoid it
23:52 Megaf no other game that I know of have several dabase backaends
23:52 Megaf not even wordpress
23:52 rubenwardy wordpress does
23:52 rubenwardy well, lots of forums do
23:52 sofar I was gonna say
23:52 rubenwardy not sure about wordpress actually
23:52 sofar wp can have several backends
23:52 rubenwardy usually they have a compatibility layer which allows MySQL / postgresql / etc
23:52 Megaf wordpress officially is MySQL only
23:52 sfan5 every good web application supports at least mysql and postgres
23:53 paramat new mapgens use existing ways of coding so are not problematic at all, they are more 'content'
23:53 sofar https://codex.wordpress.org/​Using_Alternative_Databases
23:53 paramat really mapgens are the last thing to complain about
23:53 Megaf Minetest could support only sqlite and redis
23:53 sofar that's a horrible selection
23:53 Megaf paramat: my point is. a lot of time was put into all those stuff, time that could habe been put in fixing things
23:53 sofar sqlite and postgres are #1 and #2 choices
23:53 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1 -- GlowStone code by anonymousAwesome
23:54 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2 -- Burned wood
23:54 rubenwardy lo
23:54 rubenwardy * lol
23:54 sofar sorry, not sorry
23:54 Megaf where is ShadowBot coming from now?
23:54 Megaf ah, #231412
23:54 ShadowBot Megaf: Error: Delimiter not found in "HTTP Error 404: Not Found"
23:54 sofar #
23:55 Megaf I bet I could inject code i the bot
23:55 Megaf in*
23:55 paramat Megaf if i didn't work on a mapgen i would not have worked on something else, they are done from passion
23:56 sfan5 Megaf: here's an example https://github.com/minetest/minetest​/commits/fc9747eb4b7f75e59a28957bc50​f7a78256b3d66/src/database-redis.cpp
23:56 paramat and i can maintain them all myself, no one else needs to spend tme on them
23:56 Megaf From my topic. "Don't get me wrong, minetest core developers are brilliant people who really know to code well and are fast working to resolve issues "
23:56 sfan5 the redis backend was touched very rarely in the last 4 years, i don't believe it has taken up signficant amounts of development time
23:57 Megaf sfan5: to create in the first place, but anyway, these are not my point... Are jsut examples
23:57 Megaf meanwhile there's plenty of amazing PRs dying out
23:57 sfan5 database backends are bad examples for this
23:57 Megaf paramat saw in first hand many Rogers and ShadowNinjas PRs dyining
23:57 Megaf just because nobody had a look at them
23:57 Megaf I mean
23:57 Megaf I have no idea about the reason
23:58 Megaf there's even good PRs from c55 that just dieded
23:58 rubenwardy ShadowNinja's PRs die because (s)he doesn't split them into separate commits or PRs
23:58 rubenwardy and there no good ones from c55
23:58 rubenwardy they all contain bugs in some form
23:58 rubenwardy SN also puts massive amounts of unrelated changes into PRs
23:59 Shara Megaf: if someone wants to make a new feature and that's the thing that happens to motivate them into contributing, people can't say no and demand they only fix other people's work.
23:59 sofar and sofar can't code ...
23:59 Megaf I understand that Shara
23:59 Shara I would much prefer a focus on fixing things as well, but in practice it's not always so easy
23:59 Shara sofar :D
23:59 paramat i only closed PRs neglected by the authors. recently we went from 140 to 90 PRs so we're doing well

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