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IRC log for #minetest-hub, 2017-12-28

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:12 paramat i'm interested in having it, but not much interested in coding it :)
00:24 Fixer oops
00:35 * Megaf could be you-know-who and you would never imagine that
00:46 Megaf I just did a /emergeblocks here 5000
00:46 Megaf I wonder what will happen
00:47 Megaf ]Segmentation fault
00:47 Megaf That ^
01:05 Megaf so?
01:27 EvergreenTree joined #minetest-hub
01:27 IhrFussel What the heck was THAT ... it was a one-time spike it seems 2017-12-28 02:00:01: ACTION[Server]: AVG LAG: 0.150 (0 over 0.5 s, 0 over 1 s ... MAX LAG: 0.50000) 2017-12-28 02:01:01: ACTION[Server]: AVG LAG: 0.221 (1 over 0.5 s, 1 over 1 s ... MAX LAG: 19.49998) 2017-12-28 02:02:01: ACTION[Server]: AVG LAG: 0.150 (0 over 0.5 s, 0 over 1 s ... MAX LAG: 0.50000)
01:33 Megaf Oh boy, I just found an old computer of mine, Athlon XP 2800+ in my closet
01:33 Megaf plugged it in, and its bootin!!!
01:36 Megaf oh boy, what password and users were I using several years ago?
01:37 IhrFussel Guys, are such extreme lag spikes normal with VPS? Or was that likely something rare?
01:37 Megaf I'd blame Minetest
01:38 IhrFussel I can't blame MT when the avg lag was 0.150 99% of the time for hours and now suddenly and only once it says avg lag 0.221 with max_lag 19
01:40 sfan5 you can blame MT
01:42 IhrFussel I checked the logs...there is nothing that could've caused a 20 second lag at that time ... it must either been an external process or someone hogging the shared CPU...not sure
01:47 IhrFussel Maybe daily backup?? I will watch the behavior
01:52 Megaf oh boy, there's a Minetest server in this computer that was in my closet
01:52 Megaf oh boy
01:55 IhrFussel Off for the night, see ya
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02:15 Sokomine megaf: one of your old servers?
02:15 * Sokomine looks intrested
02:15 Megaf Sokomine: early times of current V4 version
02:15 Megaf server*
02:15 Megaf 179.179.75.90 30003
02:15 Megaf try to connect please
02:16 Megaf you have to enable support for older servers
02:16 Megaf 0.4.9 :)
02:31 Sokomine moment please :-)
02:39 EvergreenTree joined #minetest-hub
02:50 Megaf sofar: sfan5: I found an old 0.4.9 server of mine. I could connect to it just fine from a 0.4.16 client enabling the options to support old servers in advanced menu. But it looks like when other people try to connect, all they get is time out. Yet in the servers console it shows they entered wrong password. Any ideas?
02:55 benrob0329 Found a problem with aliveai, it spawns waay too many mobs
03:15 CBugDCoder joined #minetest-hub
03:15 Sokomine benrob0329: perhaps. but they're very entertaining mobs
03:17 Sokomine would really love to take a look at megafs old world but can't seem to connect. not even with older clients
03:18 Megaf It might work now
03:25 Sokomine thanks :-) it does work. nice to see an old map back again even if i hadn't built anything there
03:30 Megaf I like the old textures
03:35 Sokomine some where better. some not so
03:35 Sokomine it's a mixed feeling...
03:36 Sokomine at least cobble was stonebrick. that looked less bad on houses
03:56 benrob0329 Sokomine: the problem is that it gets really laggy
03:56 benrob0329 like boats are unusable, more than usual
05:48 Megaf mt.megaf.info is pinging where for you?
05:48 Megaf !up mt.megaf.info 30003
05:48 MinetestBot mt.megaf.info:30003 is up (10ms)
05:48 Megaf oh
05:52 Megaf !server Megaf
05:52 MinetestBot Megaf: No results
05:52 Megaf good night
05:52 sofar Megaf: the init sequence changed several revisions ago, it's possible the new client no longer understands the old sequence
05:53 Megaf sofar: sfan5: it was a missconfiguration of my local network
05:53 Megaf It s just weird the terminal reporting wrong password
05:53 Megaf the correct was time out the client was seeing
05:53 Megaf well, good night, and thanks
07:17 CWz joined #minetest-hub
07:23 nerzhul joined #minetest-hub
07:59 jas_ #6737 paramat it may be Low priority now, but I'd consider it High priority for a later release, if it included the touchscreen controls.
07:59 jas_ aw
07:59 jas_ https://github.com/minetest/minetes​t/pull/6737#issuecomment-354246374
07:59 jas_ !title
07:59 MinetestBot jas_: Add main_menu_style setting by PorygonZRocks · Pull Request #6737 · minetest/minetest · GitHub
09:49 sniper570 joined #minetest-hub
11:11 nerzhul joined #minetest-hub
11:50 Aerozoic joined #minetest-hub
12:14 Aerozoic Wazup peeps. Anybody know why worldedit doesn't have a //cube command?
12:19 Megaf !server Megaf
12:19 MinetestBot Megaf: No results
12:21 IhrFussel joined #minetest-hub
12:21 Megaf !server Megaf
12:21 MinetestBot Megaf: No results
12:21 rubenwardy how do I fix the lighting after placing a large schematic?
12:21 rubenwardy LVM?
12:27 Megaf rubenwardy: select areas around it and replace air air
12:27 rubenwardy heh
12:27 rubenwardy that sounds inefficient
12:28 rubenwardy this is going to be done by a mod, and needs to be as fast as possible
12:29 rubenwardy ah, there's core.fix_light
12:29 rubenwardy I'll try that
12:35 rubenwardy aah damit it, it's because there stone above there
12:36 Megaf Thanks
12:36 Megaf !server Megaf
12:36 MinetestBot Megaf: Megaf Server V4.17 | 5.196.88.227:30003 | Clients: 0/10, 0/0 | Version: 0.4.17-Megaf / MegafXploreNext | Ping: 11ms
12:36 Fixer joined #minetest-hub
12:37 Megaf !server Megaf
12:37 MinetestBot Megaf: Megaf Server V4.17 | mt.megaf.info:30003 | Clients: 0/10, 0/0 | Version: 0.4.17-Megaf / MegafXploreNext | Ping: 11ms
12:37 Megaf better
12:50 IhrFussel 2017-12-28 07:26:01: ACTION[Server]: AVG LAG: 0.275 (1 over 0.5 s, 1 over 1 s ... MAX LAG: 27.44995) +++ 2017-12-28 12:01:01: ACTION[Server]: AVG LAG: 0.262 (1 over 0.5 s, 1 over 1 s ... MAX LAG: 25.79996) +++ 2017-12-28 13:26:14: ACTION[Server]: AVG LAG: 0.376 (1 over 0.5 s, 1 over 1 s ... MAX LAG: 44.25007)
12:50 Jordach joined #minetest-hub
12:50 IhrFussel You CANNOT run a game server under such terrible circumstances
12:50 Jordach says the person running a 2009 CPU
12:51 Jordach :thinking:
12:51 IhrFussel This is a VPS now
12:51 Jordach kektus
12:51 Jordach DO VPS weren't bad
12:51 IhrFussel 99% of the time PERFECT steps ... and then those huge lags once in a while
12:52 IhrFussel My 2009 dedi never had such lags...it had consistent 1-2 sec lags
12:53 IhrFussel I just called my hoster asking what kind of f*ckery that is and they told me to watch it some more and open a ticket with a screenshot of the lag times
12:57 ThomasMonroe joined #minetest-hub
13:00 sfan5 well yes
13:01 sfan5 on a dedi you get consistent performance (even if that perf is bad)
13:01 sfan5 on a vps you get good performance, but due to resource sharing that performance is inconsistent
13:04 IhrFussel 30+ secs lag is unacceptable for every kind of service...you cannot even reliable host a website on such a machine...but you know what's weird? I was able to use commands WHILE MT lagged so long...so was it just IO?
13:04 Jordach >400mhz DDR2
13:04 Jordach there's your problem
13:05 IhrFussel I'm not talking about my dedi, my new VPS has much better hardware
13:05 IhrFussel But top showed only 0.50 load...that doesn't sound like a lot
13:06 Jordach run screenfetch or similar to get CPU info
13:07 IhrFussel It's not the hardware since MT runs *perfectly* outside of those extreme one-time spikes
13:07 IhrFussel Or at least not the specs*
13:07 Jordach still wise to get actual on paper specs
13:07 Jordach and what mods do you ru
13:08 IhrFussel The VPS is so powerful it stays at 0.15 max_lag with EIGHT players
13:08 IhrFussel Trust me when I say it's not the specs...either another customer hogs the CPU at times or my hoster got an I/O problem
13:09 Jordach it's why i asked you to show me your specs and modlist
13:10 IhrFussel 175 mods...all kinds of mods and the mods don't lag the server...maybe sometimes when many players use them excessively max_lag goes up to 0.5 but then quickly goes back to 0.15 which is the step interval I set (it can't go lower)
13:11 IhrFussel There is no details about the RAM lshw just says "12 Gib memory"
13:11 Jordach run screenfetch or similar
13:12 Jordach CPU information will probably help
13:12 IhrFussel model name: Intel(R) Xeon(R) CPU E5-2680 v3 @ 2.50GHz
13:13 IhrFussel I see 6 "cores" cause my VPS has 6 vCores
13:14 Jordach https://www.cpubenchmark.net/compare.php?cmp[]=2390&cmp[]=2185
13:14 Jordach my server runs the Atom
13:15 Jordach and never goes above 0.1 max_lag
13:15 Jordach scaleway generally has good shit, they're just unfortunately out of stock at the moment
13:16 IhrFussel Like I said I'm sure iI could run my world @ 0.05 steps but I don't want to...I optimized my mods to operate at 0.15 sec steps
13:16 Jordach why'd you think i do critical things for SP in their own time
13:17 IhrFussel Since this is a VPS now the most logical reason for those one-time spikes is some asshole that's hogging the CPU for a bit with his heavy script
13:19 compunerd joined #minetest-hub
13:19 IhrFussel But I wonder...if it's really the CPU why could I still run top and it updated every sec?? Shouldn't it freeze then?
13:19 Jordach scrypt mining*
13:19 Megaf IhrFussel: we have 3 players now in my server, the only thing that makes the lag spike badly is mapgen
13:19 Megaf !server Megaf
13:19 MinetestBot Megaf: Megaf Server V4.17 | mt.megaf.info:30003 | Clients: 3/10, 1/3 | Version: 0.4.17-Megaf / MegafXploreNext | Ping: 10ms
13:19 Jordach my server is all SSDs top to bottom
13:19 Megaf It's running on a very old Atom
13:20 IhrFussel Is it more likely that I/O blocked the MT process since I was able to watch top as it happened??
13:21 IhrFussel Unfortunately I wasn't fast enough to run iotop =/ ... I hope I can catch the next huge lag and run that
13:24 IhrFussel Do you also share storage with others on a VPS?
13:26 sfan5 yes
13:30 IhrFussel Then I'm honestly leaning more towards it being an I/O problem ... we all know the server thread in MT lags as long as I/O is blocked
13:31 IhrFussel I just don't know if 1 customer can block the I/O for all other customers
13:40 Megaf date palm trees still crashing http://paste.debian.net/plain/1002688
13:40 Megaf [11:31:51] <IhrFussel> I just don't know if 1 customer can block the I/O for all other customers
13:40 Megaf bad design
13:40 Megaf not only from MT, but for PCs
13:44 IhrFussel Megaf, but do you think it's actually possible with shared storage? I really want to pinpoint the issue as detailed as possible when I open the support ticket...
13:45 IhrFussel They told me on the phone if I convince them enough they may move my VM to another, less crowded cluster
13:46 Megaf I dont think another VM in the cluster would hog your IO
13:47 sfan5 it is definitely possible
13:47 sfan5 but their system should be set up to fairly share resources between VMs
13:48 IhrFussel Something just made MT lag for 8 secs again :/ it's not as much as 30+ at least
13:49 Megaf IhrFussel: mapgen?
13:49 IhrFussel No, mapgen doesn't really lag anymore on this VPS ... but it would be awkward if it did considering this crazy CPU
13:50 Megaf my server is yet again lagging badly to load terrain
13:50 IhrFussel But that means mapgen lags on weaker hardware which is still an issue I' say... if you want you can pretty much eliminate any kind of performance issue if your specs are top notch
13:51 IhrFussel That's not the solution though
13:51 Megaf as I said, too easy coding for fast hardware
13:52 IhrFussel The CPU my VPS uses costs $ 1,000 or more
13:52 Megaf and a 300 USD or less Ryzen CPU will be much quicker now a days :)
13:54 IhrFussel I don't even need 12 GB RAM ... I had to take that much cause there was no other configuration available
13:55 Shara Hi all
13:56 IhrFussel Hey Shara ... are you running your servers on a VPS?
13:56 Shara Fussel, nice to see you're making some progress. And yes, both of mine are on VPS, one with OVH and the other with Scaleways.
13:57 IhrFussel Ever had such huge lags? Or inconsistent performance?
13:57 Shara Not like you seem to get.
13:57 Shara I've always been able to trace any lag issues to specific things
13:58 IhrFussel So the lags were caused by your own machine? Or external?
13:58 Shara Usually by MT or mods
13:59 IhrFussel Well then you must be pretty lucky to not have experienced ***holes that hog your shared CPU
13:59 Megaf I'm sure this would run Minetest server reasonably well, https://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboBun​dleDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.3706631
13:59 Shara The worst case was some time back on DarkLands when players joining or performing actions that involved auth file checks brought the server to a halt, and sauth fixed that
13:59 Megaf !title
13:59 MinetestBot Megaf: Computer Parts, PC Components, Laptop Computers, LED LCD TV, Digital Cameras and more - Newegg.com
13:59 Shara Fussel, which provider do you use?
13:59 Megaf 34 3,4GHz threads
13:59 Megaf 32*
14:00 Shara A good provider should be set up to handle that kind of things
14:00 IhrFussel Strato ... it's pretty much the biggest German hoster
14:00 Shara thing*
14:00 Shara Big doesn't mean good
14:00 Shara But don't really know anything about them.
14:00 IhrFussel I know but I also have my dedi there so I figured I'd stay for the VPS
14:01 Shara Either way, if you cannot actually use the resources you are meant to have, talk to them about it.
14:02 IhrFussel Just now 2017-12-28 15:00:42: ACTION[Server]: AVG LAG: 0.185 ... MAX LAG: 7.050
14:02 IhrFussel It's way worse than a few hours ago now
14:02 Shara Can you find out what MT actually did to cause that?
14:03 IhrFussel It's not caused by MT... it's 99% caused by another customer
14:03 Shara Regardless of whether it should have caused such lag or not, MT will have still done something.
14:03 Shara But if you alreayd know that's the issue, just talk to them
14:03 Shara already*
14:04 IhrFussel My server runs with 0.150 steps for hours and then suddenly a 40+ sec spike...I cannot blame MT for that
14:05 Shara It can quite easily be in MT or  amod.
14:05 IhrFussel And nobody uses WE either..WE is the only mod that could cause such numbers
14:05 Shara Even if not frequent
14:05 Shara As an example, I run one specific mod on RedCat that I know for a fact can crash the server.
14:05 Shara However I choose not to remove the mod or address the crash, because the fix would be worse than the occasional crash
14:06 Shara It crashes me maybe once every two months.
14:06 Shara Just because it's somethign rarely triggered doesn't mean it's to do with my hosting.
14:07 IhrFussel The lag is almost never high now only when those mysterious spikes happen https://pastebin.com/5R9rPDEb
14:08 Shara Then talk to your provider if you are sure it's on their side.
14:08 IhrFussel There is no mod that only runs something every X minutes/hours
14:09 Shara Doesn't need to be timed; it can be something a player triggers, or a rare thing in mapgen.
14:09 IhrFussel I already called them...they said it it doesn't stop I need to open a support ticket and attach a screenshot of the lag times
14:09 Shara I've seen people use mesecons machines to insta-lag out a server for example.
14:09 Shara Then do that
14:09 IhrFussel if it*
14:10 Shara Wonder if I should also do an official release of my mesecons restrictions mod...
14:10 Shara So many messy mods to tidy :(
14:10 IhrFussel Should I only include the lines where the lag was high or also some lines where it was low so that they see it#s very inconsistent?
14:11 Shara I'd show them something so then can also see what's normal
14:11 Shara And explain why you're sure the problem isn't on your side
14:12 Megaf <ACTION> 2017-12-28 14:11:17: [Server] CHAT: <UnspeakableGame> HOLYSHIT
14:12 Megaf <ACTION> 2017-12-28 14:11:43: [Server] CHAT: <Megaf> well, you not getting interact...
14:12 Megaf Server] CHAT: <UnspeakableGame> WTF IS WRONG WITH THESE ADMINS THEY ARE RUDE
14:12 Megaf <ACTION> 2017-12-28 14:12:30: [Server] CHAT: <UnspeakableGame> YOUSONOFABITCH!!!!!!
14:12 Megaf ]
14:12 Megaf if you want to ban this guy in advance from your server...
14:13 Shara Unless it's related to some very specific things, I only ban for actions actually on my servers
14:14 Aerozoic Same ^
14:15 Shara There's some exceptions, like predatory behaviour of certain kinds that I'm happy to advance ban for, but when it comes to insults and swearing, you may as well advance ban hundreds of players a day if you start that.
14:16 IhrFussel Megaf, I have a player with a very similar name ... if it's them they probably didn't complain cause interact is default in my world xD
14:16 Shara I sometimes get people screaming... in perfect english... about how my server is terrible because they don't have interact... when all they need to do is read some signs... in english... to get it. :)
14:18 Megaf great, I ban the guy and server seg faults
14:18 Megaf <ACTION> 2017-12-28 14:18:07: [Server] UnspeakableGame leaves game. List of players: Megaf Hamza568
14:18 Megaf ]Segmentation fault
14:18 Megaf gotta love MT reliability
14:22 sfan5 open an issue with a backtrace
14:22 srifqi joined #minetest-hub
14:35 Calinou <Megaf> <ACTION> 2017-12-28 14:12:30: [Server] CHAT: <UnspeakableGame> YOUSONOFABITCH!!!!!!
14:35 Calinou sounds like they just broke their space bar
14:36 Megaf hah
14:43 Jordach kek
14:45 Megaf !server Megaf
14:45 MinetestBot Megaf: Megaf Server V4.17 | mt.megaf.info:30003 | Clients: 0/10, 0/0 | Version: 0.4.17-Megaf / MegafXploreNext | Ping: 11ms
14:45 Megaf ok, updated homedecor, moretrees and the engine
14:45 Megaf maybe my bugs were fixed already
14:46 Megaf lol
14:46 Megaf I just updated homedecor and now stuff went missing
14:49 Megaf defuck creative was added as dep to homedecor!?!?!?!
14:49 Megaf Why would a mod depend on creative!?
14:50 Shara Check the mod to see what needs it?
14:50 Megaf VanessaE: why? https://github.com/minetest-mods/homedecor_mod​pack/commit/1471a0cba91f4fca0c00d502ac6b7e880e​7594f7#diff-b12aa140a7c73abdcce63bd23f3e9edeR4
14:50 Megaf Shara: vanessa jsut decided to add creative as dep to her mods
14:50 Megaf that just breaks my server, thank you very much
14:51 Megaf eveyday you people push me more and more away from Minetest,
14:51 VanessaE Megaf[m]: fix your busted install then.
14:51 Megaf keep doing this great job. Soon you will see me vanished from here
14:51 Megaf no more complains.
14:51 VanessaE if you don't want creative mode TURN IT OFF IN YOUR CONFIG.
14:51 VanessaE don't just delete the mod.
14:51 Calinou you should ask for a refund :)
14:52 Megaf Calinou: name me a person to as for refund
14:52 sfan5 thatsthejoke.jpeg
14:52 Megaf I've put thousands of dollares in this shit already
14:52 Megaf dolalrs*
14:52 Megaf I cant spell
14:52 Megaf but still
14:52 Calinou Minetest and mods are provided without warranty, with no promise of merchantability or fitness for a particular purpose
14:52 Calinou read the license :)
14:52 Shara Megaf, though I don't necessarily agree that requiring people to use MTG exactly as it is is a great approach for well established mods, complaints and threating to leave don't generally help get things resolved.
14:53 Megaf Im spending between 20 and 40 USD/month since 2012 in Minetest
14:53 Shara threatening*
14:53 VanessaE Megaf: and it depends on creative because it has to inquire if the user has creative capability for the sake of inventory management.
14:53 Aerozoic I'm on Megaf's side. MT should come with a warning that says it's WAYYYYY below quality standards, even for a free game.
14:53 Megaf I dont have a job. I quit doing lots of nice things in my life so I could run Minetest server
14:53 sfan5 VanessaE: shouldn't it optionally depend on creative then?
14:54 Shara ^
14:54 Megaf for that money I can have ulimited cinema or ulimined gym or ulimited 4G internet in my phone
14:54 Megaf yet I decided to spend moeny I dont have in Minetst
14:54 VanessaE sfan5: no, because it calls some functions in that mod.
14:54 sfan5 i know that
14:54 Megaf for 6 fucking years
14:54 Shara Megaf: it's your choice. Just like all of us choose what we are or are not willing to do for MT.
14:54 Megaf to only get my hardware blamed
14:55 Megaf I'm absolutely fed up
14:55 Shara Personally I shrugged my shoulders and made my own fork of homedecor long ago, but I don't complain about it.
14:55 Megaf if you just fork you stay away from some very good and welcome improvements
14:55 Shara Of course, but again, that's my choice
14:55 VanessaE ok I give up.  if you're not gonna listen to me then just piss off.
14:55 Megaf in my server it was a big celebration every single homedecor updated
14:56 * VanessaE wanders off.
14:56 sfan5 VanessaE: you could have `local has_creative = mintest.get_modpath("creative") and creative.is_enabled_for or function() return false end`
14:56 Megaf we used to gather together to see what was new in homedecor
14:56 Shara And I can always choose to add in new things if I want to anyway
14:56 sfan5 that preserves compatibility with non-minetest_game and still solves the problem
14:58 VanessaE sfan5: I could, but why bother when disabling/deleting the creative mod entirely is simply the wrong way to disable that mode (versus creative_mode = false in minetest.conf)
14:58 Megaf VanessaE: and guess what, my brain is fucked up too. I worked fucking hard for 12 years just so I could walk properly and been working my whole life just so people can tell me I'm weird
14:58 VanessaE Megaf: um..your point?
14:58 sfan5 that depends on whether you explicitly support non-minetest_game
14:58 Megaf None, YET
14:58 sfan5 if you don't then you don't need to bother
14:58 Jordach >tfw you make your own game so Minetest_Game doesn't do stupid things
14:58 VanessaE sfan5: and I don't.
14:58 sfan5 well then ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
14:58 Megaf [12:58:37] <Jordach> >tfw you make your own game so Minetest_Game doesn't do stupid things
14:58 Calinou Aerozoic: the README does include such a notice :)
14:58 Megaf precisely
14:59 Aerozoic oh XD
14:59 Megaf Jordach, the very reason I have my own game now homedecor and other mods are not working anymore
14:59 Megaf just because I dont have creative in my SURVIVAL game
14:59 Calinou Aerozoic: problem is, if you scare people off they won't even try it
14:59 VanessaE sfan5: so if Megaf wants to keep doing non-standard stuff that breaks things, he's welcome to all the headaches that brings with it.
15:00 Shara Megaf: Personally I would love to see big mods like homedecor offer support beyond MTG, but asking politely is usually a much better approach and makes people more willing to consider helping you.
15:00 Megaf the only non standard things in my subgame is the lack of TNT, Screwdriver and Creative
15:01 Megaf and the very reason I dont have them is the lack of quality control and security in Minetest
15:03 srifqi joined #minetest-hub
15:04 Megaf Now, I still think homedecor is one of the greatest mods in Minetest. We all love it. I'm just not buying the dependencie in creative. Specially after 5 or 6 years of using it without creative.
15:06 Megaf and if creative is there just disabled, but with its functions enabled, CSM could then easily hack into it
15:08 Megaf I wonder what else now depends on creative.
15:11 VanessaE um..
15:12 VanessaE csm is client-side, Megaf.  creative mod is server side
15:12 Megaf csm can do whatever it wants currently
15:12 VanessaE I don't see how your claim is remotely possible.
15:12 VanessaE csm can't do anything the server forbids....
15:12 sfan5 ah yes the uninformed csm bashing
15:13 VanessaE (as long as it can enforce the forebiddance)
15:13 Megaf let me put in other words, quoting myself from somewhere else
15:13 Megaf [13:07:24] <Megaf> A mod installed yet disabled, having it's functions available to other mods. That sounds like a terrible designed and security flaw to me
15:13 Megaf [13:07:43] <Megaf> design*
15:14 VanessaE bullshit.
15:14 Megaf If I am mistanek, then please enlighten me
15:14 Megaf mistaken*
15:14 VanessaE no.
15:14 VanessaE we've tried, you refuse to listen
15:14 VanessaE so fuck it.
15:14 VanessaE I ain't gonna waste my time.
15:14 paramat joined #minetest-hub
15:15 sfan5 Megaf: do you mean "creative_mode = false" as a way of disabling the creative mod?
15:15 VanessaE yes, he does.
15:15 Megaf sfan5: I don't know. I want to understand how that works
15:16 Megaf I see creative inside a directory called mods
15:16 Megaf if I remove creative from there and put in the servers mod, and set it to enable = false in world.mt, it will be disabled
15:16 sfan5 being able to reactivate creative functionality despite creative_mode=false is a feature
15:16 Megaf how is that different from removing creative altogether or setting creative_mode = false?
15:17 sfan5 methods 1 and 2 result in creative not being loaded at all
15:17 Megaf It looks like creative is always there, active, regardless of true or false
15:17 Megaf all it does is changes the inventory behaviour
15:17 sfan5 method 3 just says "by default nobody is able to use creative mode features"
15:17 Megaf that for me, deosnt matter at all, since I dont use standard inventory
15:18 sfan5 uh
15:18 sfan5 yes
15:21 paramat Megaf creative not being a dependency was a bug in the mod that was fixed, so coooool it :) we can help you code around this
15:25 Megaf That is a good anwer to my ugly question
15:25 Megaf sfan5: so you see? Apart from homedecor and moretrees maybe, creative is totally irrelevant
15:26 sfan5 yes
15:27 sfan5 but creative provides an API which homedecor uses, meaning homedecor requires a full minetest_game installation to function
15:27 sfan5 i don't see the problem here (apart from the missing support for non-MTG subgames)
15:29 paramat why is creative mod a 'lack of quality control and security' issue? what harm is there using it?
15:30 paramat if anything is broken we'll fix it
15:30 paramat not having that mod will just cause you problems in future
15:30 Shara I think it's a general dislike of running mods that you have no intention of using
15:31 * benrob0329 reads backlog, and walks away
15:33 paramat if the 'player creative priviledge' is the only dependency there's a 1 line way around that
15:35 paramat however, easiest just to use creative mod
15:37 paramat what are the quality control and security issues of TNT and Screwdriver mods? they seem fine, again, leaving those out will just cause you grief, like today =)
15:40 Shara paramat: quite a lot of servers delete tnt
15:40 Shara I was even advised to by a developer
15:41 Megaf paramat: while CSM = true; $everything == NotSafe
15:42 Shara Megaf: I really would love to see CSM removed, but there's no point blaming everything on it. Some things are safe because the server does control them correctly
15:42 Megaf And the best thing to prove me wrong, is trying to prove me right, that is the scietific method
15:43 paramat yeah might as well leave TNT out if it's not needed
15:43 Megaf I've seen people building without interact, flying without fly. Wiping chests and opening doors with screwdriver
15:43 Megaf you see quite a lot of things in 6 years of Minetest
15:43 Shara I would just like to see the major mods be as flexible as possible in terms of what they can work with.
15:44 Megaf things that devs arriving in the last 3 years wouldnt even dream to be possible at all
15:44 Megaf I have used the screwdriver myself to exploit other servers
15:44 paramat do open an issue about screwdrivers opening doors, we'll try to fix it. but again, you could leave that out if not needed
15:45 Megaf IMHO the same goes to ANY mod that I dont use.
15:45 paramat ok fair enough
15:45 Megaf the only "mod" I want is "default"
15:45 Megaf I dont need carts, tnt, screwdriver, creative, fire
15:45 Megaf nor farming
15:46 paramat but if you don't open issues it won't get fixed
15:46 Megaf I rewrote those from scratch myself, used another implementations or just dont use them
15:46 Megaf if creative is 100% essential to Minetest, then it's FUNCTIONS should be in default
15:46 Megaf since all we need is a simple check
15:47 Megaf It's not just about be bitching about creative, it's about choice, it's about consitency and security
15:47 Megaf I see things inside a palce called mods, as mods.
15:47 Megaf If they are not mods, then I'm sorry
15:47 Megaf I must have skipped that lesson
15:49 paramat no, a game is a collection of mods, MTG is
15:49 paramat and we separate it into mods for good reason
15:50 paramat anyway, is there a specific problem with creative?
15:50 paramat afaik homedecor just needs a 1 line fix to not need creative
15:50 Shara paramat: you yourself know that part of why server owners prefer it seperated is so they can just drop bits they don't want
15:50 paramat exactly
15:51 paramat VanessaE what part of creative does homedecor use? is it just checking the player creative priv?
15:55 VanessaE it uses the is-enabled-for call.
15:56 paramat ok easy fix
15:56 VanessaE ..in multiple places
15:56 paramat oh
15:57 paramat well still possibly easy
15:57 Megaf paramat: Couldn't we write a creative-lite thingy just to implement that function?
15:57 VanessaE anywhere that homedecore or one of its sub mods has to manage the player's inventory (f.ex deducting an item to replace it with something else)
15:57 VanessaE -ew
15:57 VanessaE -e*
15:58 Megaf I understand VanessaE's point. Maybe that function should be in default isntead of creative.
15:58 paramat Megaf 'yes we can'
15:58 VanessaE probably still easy but the fault lies with Megaf's install.
15:58 Shara VanessaE: would you still be willing to change it if someone made a PR?
15:59 Megaf as is for now, homedecor only works in minetest_game, with a simple change to "default" her mod and many other would work in other subgames
15:59 Shara I'm torn about the disabling creative part myself, because it seems so vital to me, but then I am in favour of mods having that level of flexibility
15:59 Megaf and freedom of choice would be given back to admins
15:59 VanessaE Shara: debatable... what happens when someone else decides they don't want some other mt_game component that HD uses?
15:59 Shara How many others are there people could dispute?
15:59 VanessaE idk
15:59 paramat well, that creative priv check has to be in creative, it can't be moved
16:00 VanessaE but I don't dare to guess.
16:00 Megaf hold on
16:00 Megaf let me check something
16:00 Shara Looking at depends, creative is the only obvious one I see
16:00 paramat i'll gist a creative-lite mod in a minute
16:00 * Megaf doesnt really want to change HD
16:01 Megaf paramat: no need for now, wait a sec please
16:01 VanessaE like I said, the proper way to fix this is to not disable the creative mod and instead turn off the modE in minetest.conf
16:01 Megaf I might code something here myself, Im reading the code
16:01 Megaf homedecor check does make sense, doesn't it?
16:02 paramat add a mod called 'creative' with https://gist.github.com/paramat/​d92f05790c5195f4931a54dad5b4b7db as init.lua
16:03 paramat that will then also help with any other mod that uses that function
16:03 VanessaE Shara: that said, people have in the past tried to remake 'default', breaking mods (including mine) along the way.  so I have to draw the line somewhere.  "don't disable whole mods that are part of minetest_game" is as reasonable place to put said line as I can think of.
16:04 VanessaE as reasonable a place*
16:04 paramat any issues with that gist let me know
16:05 Shara VanessaE: I just find it a pretty sad stance for the maintainers of popular mods to take, since it creates a huge barrier for other subgames and even slight customisations of MTG. When a bit more flexibility would be possible, it is nice to see it, but I do understand your stance as well.
16:06 VanessaE Shara:  like I said, I have no choice but to draw a line in the sand.
16:07 Megaf minetest@Platinum:~/MegafServer/BinMegafServer$ ls games/MegafXploreNext
16:07 Megaf game_api.txt  game.conf  LICENSE.txt  menu  README.txt  settingtypes.txt
16:07 * Megaf hides
16:07 VanessaE Megaf wants to break his mt_game install, fine with me, it's just up to him to deal with the fallout
16:07 Shara I know, but it's still sad given homedecor is mostly just adding content that could easily work in any game.
16:09 VanessaE Shara: besides, homedecor uses public API functions in the creative mod and has for months or years.  should I start adding checks everywhere for other mt_game mods that it uses.
16:09 VanessaE ?
16:09 VanessaE it's only last week that I updated depends.txt accordingly.
16:10 VanessaE because I had simply forgotten about it
16:10 Shara I'd need to spend some time checking exactly what the mod does to even start forming an answer, and since I have no interest in using official homedecor for reasons I already lost count of, I'm not going to do that.
16:10 VanessaE no interest D:
16:10 Shara Sorry - I love the mod but it simply has too many issues for me.
16:10 VanessaE oh well
16:11 VanessaE can't please everyone I guess. :(
16:11 Megaf Well, it has only a single issue for me...
16:11 Shara It's one of those annoying dilemas, since I don't want to run my own version w hen it comes down to it, b ut I feel I have to, so I just get on with it
16:11 VanessaE I'm just sorry I can't really code anymore. :-/
16:11 Shara I still feel like I never could even to begin with :D
16:12 Megaf I can't even spell...
16:12 Shara homedecor would be nicer if it was lots of seperate mods, but that's just my preference
16:12 VanessaE it is :)
16:12 Shara ANd I also don't know if all the issues I identified previously are still present or not
16:12 Megaf Shara: it is, it's a modpack
16:12 VanessaE but you mean even more separated
16:12 Megaf you can enable and disable stuff in it
16:12 Shara VanessaE: Yes, the main homedecor mod itself.
16:12 VanessaE Megaf: she wants homedecore itself split apart too
16:13 VanessaE -e
16:13 Megaf oh
16:13 Shara There's things I want, and things I don't want, and after a while it gets messy
16:13 VanessaE some day maybe I will
16:13 VanessaE but not now.
16:13 Shara depends was another issue that made me fork
16:13 Shara But again, I consider that my own choice
16:14 VanessaE at this point I'm lucky I can think clearly enough and type well enough to chat.  coding?  fuhgeddaboutit.
16:14 Shara For example, I didn't want to have unifieddyes on my server, because that's just about crafting, and a creative doesn't need crafting
16:14 Shara Hehe
16:14 Megaf well, my issue was sorted out by paramat
16:14 Shara :)
16:14 Megaf I have the function homedecor needs, problem solved
16:15 Megaf maybe the function could be part of default
16:15 Shara Awesome
16:15 VanessaE Megaf:  and you'll notice he did it by un-breaking your modified mt_game :P
16:15 Shara Megaf: I think it was already explained it can't be moved to default
16:15 VanessaE [12-28 10:59] <paramat> well, that creative priv check has to be in creative, it can't be moved
16:15 Shara ^
16:16 Megaf Sorry, I totally missed that
16:16 Shara In the end there's just a whole bunch of decisions that have to be made about how larger mods/modpacks are run, and they won't suit everyone. Doesn't make those choices wrong, just different.
16:18 Megaf sofar: Just to let you know, I added your remote media server to my main server now. I'm using latest homedecor, mesecons, pipeworks, moretrees, moreblocks, moreores, you have all of those?
16:19 VanessaE Shara: so anyway..um... file some issues so we can sort out what you don't like.
16:20 VanessaE on an unrelated, offtopic note
16:20 * VanessaE grumbles at the pile of 3d printed parts on her desk
16:20 VanessaE (can't put them together, waiting on some bits and bobs in the mail)
16:25 Megaf Shara: you know adv trains mod?
16:25 Megaf I added it to my server, pretty neat
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16:36 Megaf hi Krock
16:37 benrob0329 Neat, but the steam locomotive models are...*cough*
16:38 benrob0329 I started to redo the detailed one, need to finish that
16:44 Shara Megaf: Poke me in an hour or so and I can come check it out if you like
16:47 Shara VanessaE: If I can crawl to the top of my own "must fix this mod yesterday!!" heap, I might grab current homedecor and take a look, but I really would have to test most of my previous issues again before spamming you with things to do.
16:48 VanessaE ok
16:48 Shara I did too much travelling over the past couple of months and the heap grew into a mountain while my back was turned. :(
16:48 VanessaE don't forget, homedecor is in the minetest-mods group, so maybe I can pawn some of your issues off on sofar ;)
16:49 Shara Hehehe
16:52 Megaf benrob0329: heh, pelase do, I'm fine with the models tho
16:53 Megaf My only issue so far is some trains have no sounds and it's very tricky to make curves
16:56 Megaf benrob0329: Actually, I have no idea how to do curves
16:56 Megaf !server Megaf
16:56 MinetestBot Megaf: Megaf Server V4.17 | mt.megaf.info:30003 | Clients: 1/10, 0/1 | Version: 0.4.17-Megaf / MegafXploreNext | Ping: 10ms
16:56 Megaf feel free to join and help me figure out
16:57 benrob0329 Megaf: use the track tool to change the track type
16:57 Megaf oh
16:57 benrob0329 And lay then so they connect, its diagonally
16:57 Megaf lemme try
17:01 Megaf benrob0329: heh, thanks, it worked just fine
17:08 Shara Sadly, I suspect adding advance trains to my creative would just lead to more crazy spammy railtracks absolutely everywhere
17:09 rubenwardy advanced trains is rather unstable
17:13 benrob0329 Shara: unfortunately yes
17:13 benrob0329 Although you could make them reserved to railroad operators
17:13 Shara There is something about railtracks that causes otherwise okay builders to go mad and make huge eyesores
17:14 benrob0329 Remove them from the creative inventory type thing
17:14 benrob0329 o_O
17:15 Shara What railtracks in MT should look like: http://rc.minetest.tv/wp-conten​t/uploads/2016/09/rafstrain.png
17:15 paramat joined #minetest-hub
17:15 rubenwardy https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cUZZkUrMrNY
17:15 paramat Megaf so you added that stripped-down creative mod?
17:17 Krock rubenwardy, advtrains is on the way for that.. just the textures may need a bit more tweaking
17:17 rubenwardy the textures are disgusting
17:17 paramat Megaf also please open an issue about your screwdriver problem. no issue > no fix > can't complain :)
17:18 Shara Doe sthat issues with screwdrivers exist anymore?
17:19 paramat yeah confirmation would be good
17:21 Megaf paramat: I think it was fixed already
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17:28 paramat ok good
17:54 IhrFussel Customer support didn't help much "that seems to be normal regarding VPS, maybe you should've considered a dedi instead"
17:54 IhrFussel Well let's see what they reply to my email with the lag times
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18:46 Megaf bye all
18:59 rubenwardy omg
18:59 rubenwardy if we have a conference we could call it   Minetest.Conf
18:59 rubenwardy minetest.conf
18:59 Shara rubenwardy: and now it has to happen
18:59 rubenwardy either that or MeseCon, but the latter's way too ambiguous
18:59 ThomasMonroe hehe
19:00 ThomasMonroe XD
19:00 ThomasMonroe I like MeseCon better though :P
19:00 rubenwardy yeah, it's better :D
19:00 paramat MineFest
19:01 paramat ConTest
19:01 ThomasMonroe lol
19:01 ThomasMonroe are there prizes at the ConTest?
19:01 rubenwardy ew, just nuke the test
19:02 rubenwardy rebrand as "Mine"
19:02 ThomasMonroe isn't that selfish? ;D
19:02 rubenwardy even better, MineGine™
19:02 rubenwardy oops
19:02 rubenwardy even better, Minengine™
19:03 Sokomine Shara: if all you don't want from homedecor are some nodes...perhaps overriding minetest.register_node might be of intrest? (if possible). i'm considering ways of offering travelnet in such a way that people can decide what part they want and what not. thus the discussion about settingtypes.txt
19:03 Shara Sokomine: then my server is still stuck with the baggage of all those extra textures and modles, which I believe are still sent to players?
19:04 Shara models*
19:04 Shara Not to mention dependencies on other mods I don't want
19:04 rubenwardy MineEngine Pro
19:05 rubenwardy MineEngine F2P with IAPs
19:05 rubenwardy IAP API for Minetest, when?
19:05 rubenwardy gotta get loot boxes in CTF
19:06 Shara Sokomine: Also homedecor has the fun issue of single textures larger than 200KB.
19:07 Sokomine rubenwardy: as long as we don't have to mine at the meeting...("bring your own pick", "dig for coal", ...)
19:07 rubenwardy we don't have enough players for this, unfortunately :(
19:07 Sokomine Shara: hm, that's right. the models and textures would still be there
19:07 Sokomine VanessaE loves doing textures and believes in hd :-)
19:08 ThomasMonroe ruben, I guess we have an empty mine :P
19:08 Shara One of the things I did with homedecor is massively reduce texture size.... never yet had a player complain
19:09 Shara 216KB texture in homedecor... my version is 53KB, just to give one of the most extreme cases
19:10 Sokomine hm, yes, homedecor is sometimes a bit heavy. it offers lots of very nice decorative nodes, and i've met a lot of players who did spend more effort on indoor decoration than on the outside. yet...a smaller version for more survival-orientated servers could sometimes help. maybe what 3dformiture had + some homedecor nodes + doors + windows (those really help make buildings look better)
19:10 Shara And that starts adding up big time soon enough, even if most of the texture changes have had smaller savings
19:10 Shara On DarkLands I used xdecor and then added selected homedecor items only
19:12 Sokomine xdecor is also nice and has consistent textures. but it's not really a repalcement for homedecor. it feels...more mc-like. mt has chairs and tables and toilets and fridges and kitchen sinks and kichten cabinets (very universal usage possible)
19:12 Shara Yes, I don't even really like xdecor to be honest, but that wasn't meant to be a heavy server in any sense
19:12 rubenwardy "a bit heavy"
19:12 rubenwardy very bloated you mean
19:12 rubenwardy :D
19:13 Shara When you can reduce a mod by over 1MB in size and players don't even notice the change...
19:13 * Shara shrugs
19:13 Sokomine maybe they notice but see no reason to complain
19:14 Shara Sokomine: At the time I asked them to tell me which nodes I had reduced textures on... they couldn't
19:14 Sokomine oh :-)
19:14 Sokomine well, anyway: thanks for reducing textures. my gpu is always glad if it has less work to do
19:15 Shara I think one player noticed I reduced the water texture (I used a fairly large custom one), but I expected that since I could see the difference on that myself quite easily
19:15 Shara But the only homedecor ones where I think you can actually see the change if you look closely are the plasma ones, since I simply couldn't justify such large textures sizes for them
19:42 Shara ThomasMonroe: Just to confirm, have you played on RedCat any time recently? Pretty sure it was someone using your name and not you that I just banned. :)
19:45 ThomasMonroe yes it was not me XD
19:45 Shara Awesome. If you ever need the name freed up there, just let me know.
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20:22 behalebabo joined #minetest-hub
20:27 * Jordach has more choccie digestives
20:30 Shara Jordach: Share?
20:32 IhrFussel Is a 30 sec lag every hour acceptable on a VPS? I'm just trying to hear some more opinions in case they reply "sorry we cannot help you there"
20:34 Jordach yes
20:34 Shara Fussel, the best people to ask that of would be your players
20:34 Shara They are the ones who need to live with it
20:36 IhrFussel What kind of service are you supposed to run on a VPS if it's "normal" to have the machine freeze for 30 sec hourly?? I cannot imagine that this is normal
20:36 Shara Doesn't happen to me
20:36 IhrFussel I don't even have the cheapest VPS I have the middle one
20:37 IhrFussel https://www.strato.de/server/linux-vserver/ I got the one that's blue by default
20:38 IhrFussel I can't believe that they are offering such a terrible performance as "mid-tier VPS"
20:42 Shara Maybe I am missing it, but it doesn't seem to say much about CPU?
20:42 IhrFussel Look at those numbers https://pastebin.com/3iwxZePQ
20:43 Shara All over the place
20:43 IhrFussel It says 6 vCores ... and the CPU in use is extremely powerful ... the problem is that I have to share the CPU with others
20:43 Shara Can MT even utilise that many cores?
20:44 IhrFussel No, but I thought if I choose a more expensive VPS MAYBE I would get a certain min performance
20:44 Shara When lag peaks, is CPU maxing out on the cores in use?
20:45 IhrFussel Nope, average load goes up to 0,5 or maybe 1,0 but that's it ... minetestserver stays at ~5% CPU
20:46 Shara When I've had lag problems on my servers before, I could clearly see CPU maxing out
20:48 IhrFussel http://i.imgur.com/pIsHNvm.png ... that's what it looks like during the spike more or less
20:50 Shara I wish I could help you more, but you need someone with more of a clue about this than I have
20:50 Megaf Minetest.Conf it is
20:51 Megaf will happen in Feb or March next year in Europe
20:51 rubenwardy what is mtwol?
20:51 Megaf Likely in Wales or Scotland
20:51 rubenwardy *mtwol.sh
20:51 rubenwardy Bristol!
20:51 rubenwardy :D
20:52 Shara rubenwardy: Don't be greedy :P
20:52 Megaf we have already 3 attendences comfirmed
20:52 Shara Bristol already has one :)
20:52 rubenwardy lol :D
20:52 * Megaf has just returned from sunny day in the swiming pool
20:53 IhrFussel rubenwardy, those are just some scripts that restart the server, do backups etc
20:53 rubenwardy cool
20:53 rubenwardy was wondering why it was root
20:54 IhrFussel Yeah well since I modified a few builtin files too I need to backup those too =P
20:54 rubenwardy with systemd, you can allow users to control services. ie: allow the Minetest to restart Minetest
20:54 rubenwardy lol
20:55 * Megaf has to learn how to do that ^
20:55 rubenwardy you don't need run as root to backup files in /usr
20:55 rubenwardy everything in /usr is world readable
20:56 * Megaf throws Darwin at rubenwardy
20:56 rubenwardy what
20:56 Megaf the OS..
20:56 Megaf nevermind
20:56 rubenwardy the VPS is probably Linux
20:56 rubenwardy not Darwin
20:57 rubenwardy trying to upload my systemd service, but gist.github.com won't load
20:57 rubenwardy at my parents who have 60Kbps currently
20:57 rubenwardy usually 500Kbps - 2Mbps
20:58 rubenwardy ha, 23Kbps right now
20:58 Megaf sometimes is faster to just send data by post
20:59 Megaf or by pigeon
20:59 Megaf attach a 1 TB SD card to a pigeon and be happy
20:59 rubenwardy I have 200Mbps at home, so this is very painful
20:59 Megaf Pigeon Backup Services
20:59 rubenwardy https://gist.github.com/rubenwardy​/59ea4e422f70b4b7a220c759d29fc8b2
21:21 * Sokomine lures the pidgeon with megafs sd card away with some seeds
21:21 Jordach IhrFussel: what's your maximum price/month
21:27 IhrFussel Jordach, I already pay $25/month for my current dedi ... if I didn't have that other dedi I could take a more expensive dedi right now but my hoster also takes an "activation fee" of $50
21:27 Calinou rubenwardy: I could download at 10 MB/s on Steam with a 4G connection at my grandparents on Christmas
21:27 Calinou I get 1.3 MB/s at best at home
21:28 Calinou oh, also, fiber has been announced in my city
21:28 Calinou it should hopefully be there in less than 2 years… riiiight?
21:58 paramat joined #minetest-hub
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22:12 Jordach IhrFussel you're US based or EU based
22:12 IhrFussel EU
22:13 Krock > when Asia doesn't exist
22:13 Jordach scaleway has amsterdam and paris based dedis
22:13 Jordach !ping jordach.net
22:13 Jordach MinetestBot: pls
22:13 Krock <3 MinetestBot
22:13 MinetestBot <3 Krock
22:13 Krock Jordach, she doesn't like you
22:14 Jordach !up jordach.net
22:14 MinetestBot jordach.net:30000 is up (13ms)
22:14 Jordach :^)
22:14 Jordach in Paris loaded with 3 SSDs
22:17 benrob0329 can you get the textures definition from an entity?
22:21 benrob0329 entities have supprisingly little documentation, especially in lua_api.txt
22:21 benrob0329 :-/
22:24 Krock benrob0329, https://github.com/minetest/minetes​t/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt#L4373
22:24 Krock self.object:get_properties().textures
22:24 Krock example from builtin: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob​/master/builtin/game/item_entity.lua#L60
22:27 benrob0329 Krock: thanks
22:27 Krock !next
22:27 MinetestBot Another satisfied customer. Next!
22:46 benrob0329 how can I call custom functions in entitydef?
22:47 Krock self:my_custom_function(arg1, arg2, ..)
22:48 Krock it's just a table where you can call functions :)
22:51 Megaf Shara: I just saved a young little birdie
22:51 Shara Hmm?
22:52 Megaf Found him on the floor of my garage. Got him carefuly in my hand and searched for his nest, found his nest and his bros and sis and put it back there
22:52 Megaf all 3 healthy and safe now
22:52 Megaf :)
22:52 Megaf tiny bird, I think it was like a baby
22:52 Megaf How do you call a baby bird?
22:54 Shara Chick?
22:56 sofar a snack?
22:56 Shara :P
22:56 sofar failed dinosaur!
23:00 IhrFussel Most dedis I find are $50+ or have the same weak CPU as my current one (AMD Opteron)
23:01 Megaf AMD Opteron is not weak at all
23:01 sofar a 2009 amd opteron is weak
23:01 Megaf is just Minetest is not designed to use an AMD Opteron, nor AMD Opteron is designed as a game server CPU
23:01 Megaf Just fact, not a critic to Minetest this time ^
23:01 sofar disclaimer: my personal opinion does not represent my employers' views :)
23:02 Megaf IhrFussel: Opteron is good for crunching numbers in parallel and running several web and database servers
23:02 Megaf not for games
23:03 Megaf Maybe, in my opinion, a very high clocked two thread modern Atom will beat a lot of more complex CPUs at same clock running Minetest
23:03 IhrFussel And another huge lag...40 secons and average load went up to 3,5
23:04 Megaf Raven262: did you check the max lag on my server?
23:04 Megaf I dont think I'm getting as high as 40 seconds, but I am gettings like 20 seconds when theres many people moving around loading areas
23:06 Shara I sometimes wonder how I manage to run servers on VPS at all, given the problems you both get
23:07 Megaf no no, I dont get many problems on my VPS, almost none. I'm getting some lag now due to old Atom CPU and HDD. Is expected
23:07 Megaf in my Linode VPS the only problem was lack of RAM
23:07 Shara I'd just consider such lags unacceptable, that's all.
23:08 Megaf Oh, I do too
23:08 Megaf Shara: what CPU you have by the way?
23:08 Megaf in the VPS that is
23:08 Shara Can't remember right now.
23:09 Shara I use the third tier here: https://www.ovh.co.uk/vps/vps-ssd.xml
23:15 Megaf That's it, I will drop my Linode VPS and switch to OVH VPS
23:15 Megaf will have on OVH Dedi (where my MT server is and one OVH VPS)
23:15 Calinou OVH VPS is not exactly cheap
23:15 Calinou compared to the competition
23:16 Calinou OVH dedicated is even worse :P
23:16 Calinou (try So You Start or Kimsufi instead)
23:16 Calinou (both are owned by OVH, they're just more accessible brands)
23:16 Calinou <sofar> disclaimer: my personal opinion does not represent my employers' views :)
23:16 Megaf Calinou: Kimsufi is OVH ;)
23:16 Calinou I love this sentence, it means nothing :P
23:16 Megaf Calinou: and my dedi is Kimsufi
23:17 Megaf I'm running a /emergeblocks here 1000 from my spawn. What will happen?
23:17 Megaf Will it generate only ungenarated areas or will it overwrite everything?
23:18 Megaf (Of course I have a full backup of worlds directory made just prior running this command)
23:18 Calinou what does "/help emergeblocks" say?
23:18 Sokomine Megaf: hm, does placing a bird back into his nest work? i'm not sure if that's always a good idea
23:18 Shara Calinou: It works, whereas DL has needed to change hosting multiple times since we tried to do it more cheaply.
23:18 Megaf Calinou: /emergeblocks (here [radius]) | (<pos1> <pos2>): Load (or, if nonexistent, generate) map blocks contained in area pos1 to pos2
23:19 Calinou Shara: DL?
23:19 Shara DarkLands. The other server I run.
23:19 Calinou Megaf: that means it keeps already generated areas as-is :)
23:19 Calinou Shara: we have many nonprofit hosts in France, the prices can be good, but they only speak French
23:19 Shara Currently that one is hosted on Scaleway, and hosting problems have been minimal since going there
23:19 Calinou really good, even
23:19 Calinou (it's where my VPS is)
23:19 Megaf Sokomine: well, I just aproached him from the place where his nest is and he actually jumped from my hand and ran to be just with his brothers
23:20 Megaf dady and momy bird were not around
23:20 Megaf Calinou: thanks, that's what I thought
23:20 Sokomine Megaf: hope it works then
23:20 Megaf So do I
23:21 Megaf Sokomine: If I wasnt traveling tomorrow I'd actually keep birdie and feed him by hand
23:21 IhrFussel 74 secs lag ...
23:21 Sokomine might be quite demanding if it's a very young one
23:21 paramat emergeblocks only generates ungenerated world
23:21 IhrFussel It gets worse and worse
23:21 Sokomine IhrFussel: what are you doing? increasing lag?
23:22 Sokomine perhaps...lag once in a while is less bad than constant high lag
23:22 IhrFussel I'm doing nothing...my hoster is apparently too full
23:22 Megaf IhrFussel: shutdown server, run CPU benchmark
23:22 Megaf wait one hour
23:22 Megaf shutdown server again
23:22 Megaf run CPU benchmark again
23:22 paramat but radius 100 nodes is rather large
23:22 Megaf repeat 4 times
23:22 paramat 1000
23:22 shivajiva oversubscribed, cheeky buggers :/
23:22 Megaf IhrFussel: compare CPU times benchmark
23:23 IhrFussel Megaf, customer support already implied that "this is normal"
23:23 Megaf paramat: yep, I want 100% of spawn area generated
23:23 Megaf I was walking around today and found areas close to spawn that were never visited
23:24 shivajiva ofc the provider will guarantee it for a fee lol
23:24 EvergreenTree joined #minetest-hub
23:24 paramat i find 4000x4000x80nodes takes 15mins
23:24 Megaf IhrFussel: I have dedicated now, yet I still get these lag spikes. So I would just blame your provider yet
23:24 Megaf paramat: emergeblocks update: 11928/2000376 blocks emerged (0.6%)
23:24 Megaf emergeblocks update: 11995/2000376 blocks emerged (0.6%)
23:24 Megaf it will take a while
23:25 shivajiva sofar: https://github.com/shivajiva101/​sban/tree/shivajiva101-patch-gui
23:25 Megaf at least there's 16 Emerge threads running :D
23:25 Megaf and all 4 hardware threads  are maxed out
23:26 paramat ah 1000^3 is similar volume, should be ok
23:26 sofar shivajiva: oh, will review security asap
23:26 shivajiva ty
23:27 paramat oops
23:27 paramat radius 100 is 2000^3
23:27 paramat *1000
23:28 IhrFussel Megaf, trust me when I say 95% of the time the max_lag is 0.15 ... and then SUDDENLY the server freezes for 30+ seconds
23:28 Megaf Right
23:28 IhrFussel And it can happen multiple times in a row
23:28 paramat so will take a long time, maybe an hour or more
23:28 IhrFussel It's a pure luck game
23:28 srifqi joined #minetest-hub
23:29 Megaf hm, during emergeblocks maxlag is 11 seconds, server still responsive
23:29 Megaf amazing
23:29 Megaf I was expecting it to totally freeze
23:30 sofar shivajiva: well, you explicitly check privs in the formspec receive method, so after that it's all admins, so it's already good enough
23:30 Megaf now, how come a normal gameplay mapgen/loading unloaded areas hangs everything and a heavy emerge blocks doesnt!?
23:32 shivajiva sofar: nice to know I understood your methodology for securing the formspec :)
23:33 sofar you are putting a lot of data into fields though, which I don't really like
23:33 sofar better keep it tucked behind a priv :)
23:33 sofar I'm glad the article was useful :)
23:38 IhrFussel I want to kill my hoster 2017-12-29 00:02:51: ACTION[Server]: AVG LAG: 0.417 ... MAX LAG: 106.801
23:38 IhrFussel 106!!!
23:38 shivajiva how would you prefer the data to be displayed code wise ?
23:39 Megaf IhrFussel: who do you get that message anyway?
23:39 Megaf and just go back to your dedicated...
23:40 Megaf # Server: version=0.4.17-Megaf, uptime=2045.22, max_lag=14.2526, clients={Megaf}
23:40 Megaf Running emergeblocks ^
23:40 sofar # Server: version=0.4.16, uptime=8410, max_lag=0.116296, clients={GreenDimond}
23:40 sofar somehow I'm really liking my hoster
23:41 IhrFussel Megaf, I wrote an email with a few lag times to the support and wait for a reply... Maybe they will offer to "move" me somewhere else with less load not sure
23:42 IhrFussel The lag times are reported by my avg_lag mod
23:43 IhrFussel I linked it here some time ago
23:43 shivajiva IhrFussel: my provider just charges me more for exceeding my quota and I stay on that tier for the rest of the billing period. Yours doesn't which may be a blessing
23:45 benrob0329 Krock: what if I only wanted to set one texture from the textures table, how would I do that?
23:45 benrob0329 set_properties({textures[1] = foo}) is rejected by my linter, so I'm not inclined to think it works
23:45 Calinou sofar: what's your hoster by the way?
23:45 IhrFussel shivajiva, I'm not exceeding any quota though, this VPS is very new (have it since yesterday) and there are too many crazy scripts running on the shared CPU... either that or the shared I/O got a problem
23:46 IhrFussel Nobody can tell me that 100 seconds lag are "normal" not even for a VPS
23:46 Jordach >using a linter
23:46 Jordach benrob0329: git gud
23:46 * Jordach doesn't use a linter at all
23:46 Jordach 8)
23:47 benrob0329 Jordach: thats why i use a linter :^)
23:47 benrob0329 because tracing errors sucks
23:47 Jordach >Do you have a disability?
23:47 Jordach >Yes
23:47 Jordach >If yes, please give details
23:47 Jordach >uSiNg A lInTeR
23:49 Jordach i'm being sarcastic, because i'm moderately depressed right now
23:49 sofar Calinou: ramnode, and AWS
23:50 Megaf !server =IML=
23:50 MinetestBot Megaf: "=IML= Clan Server - Minetest 0.4.17 Vanilla" | 179.179.75.90:30417 | Clients: 0/100, 0/0 | Version: 0.4.17-dev / minetest | Ping: 258ms
23:50 Megaf fastest MT server ^
23:51 Jordach kek
23:51 Jordach dat ping
23:54 Sokomine IhrFussel: maybe you ought to be more friendly towards your hoster :-)
23:54 Megaf Jordach: far away from bot...
23:54 Megaf closer to you
23:54 Megaf pint it yourself
23:54 Megaf also, dat IP
23:56 * Sokomine hands Jordach a chocolate cookie in order to cheer him up
23:57 IhrFussel 2017-12-28 20:01:43: ACTION[Server]: MAX LAG: 35.250 +++ 2017-12-28 21:00:48: ACTION[Server]: MAX LAG: 7.350 +++ 2017-12-28 22:02:48: ACTION[Server]: MAX LAG: 36.750 +++ 2017-12-28 23:01:05: ACTION[Server]: MAX LAG: 32.250 << do you guys notice how it's always around the same minute of the hour?
23:58 IhrFussel I bet it will happen again in 3 minutes (01:02)

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