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IRC log for #minetest-hub, 2017-12-27

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:00 IhrFussel sofar, n't sound much but it is, I think
00:00 IhrFussel Oops
00:00 IhrFussel model name: Quad-Core AMD Opteron(tm) Processor 1381
00:02 sofar that's a 2009 processor
00:02 IhrFussel That should absolutely not matter, MT runs on a Celeron
00:02 sfan5 it runs yes, but nobody said it runs decently
00:02 sofar I can't call it junk, I'd have to write a disclaimer first that my opinions are my own and do not represent the views of my employer
00:03 sofar but now that I have done that
00:03 sofar I can call it junk
00:03 sofar tbh it's not that bad, it was a 189$ CPU in 2009
00:03 Jordach i wouldn't even run MT on a Bulldozer series CPU
00:03 sofar for AMD that's not a cheap CPU
00:04 sofar but I suspect, based on the CPU, that the motherboard is also similarly 9 years old
00:04 sofar and the RAM is as well
00:04 sofar and the storage is as well
00:05 sofar sigh, sorry, if I had known that's what your server was built of, I likely wouldn't have made you spent the time using profiling tools
00:06 IhrFussel sofar, memory     1GiB DIMM DDR2 Synchronous 400 MHz (2,5 ns)
00:06 Jordach there's ye bottleneck
00:06 sofar heh, 400MHz ram
00:08 IhrFussel I doubt that 400 mhz is too low to load a few mapblocks from/into memory
00:08 sofar it isn't
00:08 sofar it's just gonna be slow
00:08 Jordach i think my server has 1800mhz DDR3 on an Intel Atom C2750 @2.39G
00:09 Jordach it's also got three SSDs, 16GB RAM
00:09 sofar IhrFussel: http://foo-projects.org/~sofar/nbench-scores.txt
00:09 sofar some historical relevance to CPU performance over time
00:09 IhrFussel What's that now? std::vector<ModSpec, std::allocator<ModSpec> >::operator=
00:09 sofar I've been keeping that list going for 15 years now
00:10 sofar your cpu would probably rank, my best bet, a score of ~12-13 or so, just a wild guess
00:10 sofar and that doesn't even account for memory speed
00:11 sofar your memory speed is also 1/4th of what has been "normal" memory speeds of "normal" desktop cpus
00:11 paramat 'MT runs on a Celeron' =)
00:11 sofar not even talking about 2400MHz ram with triple busses
00:11 sofar all in all your system is likely 20x slower than what's relatively current hardware
00:12 sfan5 sofar: you sure it's not half?
00:12 sfan5 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DD​R3_SDRAM#JEDEC_standard_modules, desktop ram is usually DDR3-1600)
00:12 sofar 400 = 1/4th of 1600?
00:12 Sokomine paramat: well, for some degree of "run", it runs on a raspberry. that's not bad at all
00:12 paramat wow 1GB RAM
00:13 sfan5 you're comparing MHz and MT/s
00:13 sfan5 his ram is 400 MHz, so DDR3-800 with a data rate of 800 MT/s according to that table
00:14 sofar I'm probably off by a large factor in my estimates
00:14 sofar doesn't change anything, though
00:14 sfan5 still terrible, yes
00:14 sofar half of terrible, double of terrible :)
00:15 sofar IhrFussel: I feel bad for you, though, but I'd stop attempting to optimize anything if I were you
00:15 sofar stop wasting time :/
00:16 Fixer BUT BUT HE LIKES TO WASTE TIME
00:16 sofar we're all in this channel, we all do :P
00:16 Fixer also, i forgot to check jordachs flying jet thing
00:17 paramat many people hit the 1GB limit of luajit and get OOM so 1GB seems low
00:17 Jordach right now i'm compiling a fuckoff amount of shaders
00:17 sofar 1gb isn't the issue, 1gb could be fine for a reasonable server
00:17 Fixer wait a second on luajit
00:17 sofar ITB could probably run in 512mb even
00:17 sofar same with CTF, I bet, or games like that
00:17 sfan5 sofar: at this point a good vps might even be better, right?
00:17 Fixer i was telling countless times that it is very weird
00:18 Fixer i measured lua mem usage just before OOM
00:18 Fixer it was like 90 mb at most
00:18 Jordach ^^^^
00:18 Fixer wth???
00:18 sofar sfan5: oh, absolutely
00:18 Fixer i get OOM with very low memory readings
00:18 Jordach i've seen it go at 32MB
00:18 sofar even the cheapest VPS servers give you a 2-3 year old CPU at most
00:18 sfan5 Fixer: no gc64?
00:18 Fixer nope
00:18 Sokomine sfan5: good setups and hardware recommendations might be intresting for people who want to host a server. maybe an article on the forum couldn't hurt
00:19 Jordach sfan5: start making 64bit builds GC64
00:19 sfan5 well there's your problem
00:19 Fixer sfan5: default builds
00:19 sofar sfan5: heck, try the AWS free tier, lol
00:19 sofar woop woop alert sofar is advertising again
00:19 sofar :P
00:19 Fixer sfan5: but wtf it ooms on 90mb? that technic_worldgen and some other sucker
00:19 sfan5 luajit (w/o gc64) can't just use any memory, it needs memory allocated below a 2GB address
00:19 Fixer even after optimisations
00:19 Sokomine some people claimed they had excellent hardware. yet their servers where slow. and then there's knocks server which ran for quite some time quite well on an old notebook
00:19 sfan5 the oom happens because it can't get memory that fulfils those requirements from the OS
00:20 sfan5 Sokomine: it's hard to populate such an article unless you live in a computer hardware museum ;)
00:20 Fixer lets see
00:20 sfan5 but yeah that would be helpful
00:20 Sokomine hm :-)
00:20 * Sokomine seraches her old computers and throws a 386er at sfan5
00:20 paramat the memory use displayed at OOM isn't the memory use that causes OOM, apparently
00:21 Jordach sfan5: what the fuck
00:21 sofar I have a 386 in a jar of formaldehyde
00:21 sfan5 paramat: memory can't "cause" OOM, the value is probably exactly correct
00:21 sfan5 but due to the restrictions I mentioned earlier it can't get any more memory and OOM's
00:21 Sokomine guess in ihrfussels case it's a dedicated server that has been rented? wouldn't make too much sense to spend too much money each month for a mt server
00:22 Jordach sofar: 8086 or riots
00:22 Fixer sfan5: ok, so I'm using 3gb of ram right now, should it just OOM outright?
00:22 sfan5 no no
00:22 sfan5 what matters is the address space of the minetest process
00:22 IhrFussel I pay $25 per month for it actually ... so far I lost well over $300 on it
00:22 paramat ok
00:23 Sokomine that's quite a lot
00:23 Fixer sfan5: so in simpler words it is clusterfuck
00:23 sfan5 yea
00:23 sfan5 IhrFussel: honestly a virtual server at ~ $15 would give you better performance
00:23 Fixer so to avoid OOMs i need unload all the ---- out of my memory and pre(a)y it won't OOM
00:24 IhrFussel I had a VPS for $10 before but the performance was so inconsistent that I chose a dedi
00:24 sfan5 not all VPSs are equal
00:24 sfan5 also a good vps is definitely better than a bad dedi
00:26 sofar IhrFussel: I pay ~20$ a month for : Intel(R) Xeon(R) CPU E3-1240 V2 @ 3.40GHz
00:26 Jordach IhrFussel: Scaleway has decent dedis
00:26 Fixer sfan5: is it somehow possible to make minetest use memory space best suitable for luajit?
00:26 sofar IhrFussel: 4gb ram
00:26 sfan5 Fixer: way too much work to get that to work, just use gc64
00:26 Fixer also, luajit seems to die down at the moment, no commits since November 17
00:27 sofar IhrFussel: 2012 cpu, ha! but still a fantastic work horse (IVB server)
00:29 IhrFussel sofar, my hoster doesn't even offer my current dedi anymore ... the cheapest option is Intel® Xeon® E3-1230v2, 4 x 3,3 GHz, 8 GB RAM DDR3, 2 x 1 TB for $35/month
00:32 paramat time for a new server it seems
00:32 IhrFussel Or VPN for $15/month: 600 GB SSD/HDD, NEW! 12 GB RAM guaranteed, 6 CPU vCores, Plesk Onyx, Traffic Unlimited
00:33 paramat yours sounds bad value
00:34 IhrFussel They even have an offer for the VPN... 6 month only $1 then 15
00:36 IhrFussel Should I take it?
00:36 sofar vpn? you mean vps?
00:37 IhrFussel Yes VPS sorry...sounds very cheap and tempting 6 months $1
00:40 Fixer it is 2017, but seems like formspecs can't into Tab/Enter/etc
00:42 IhrFussel I got it... really can't do anything wrong with $1 for 6 months
00:46 sofar might as well post it in my AWS thread as a good alternative, lol
00:47 IhrFussel As soon as I get my ssh access I will check the CPU/RAM and ONLY if it's significantly faster than my current dedi I will move my server to it
00:48 IhrFussel It said HDD/SSD ... does that mean it has a SSD or that I can choose somehow between them?
00:48 sfan5 can mean lots of things
00:48 sofar no clue, ask them
00:50 IhrFussel Ah I see...it says data that's needed constantly will be on a SSD and data that hasn't been touched in a while will be moved to a HDD
00:51 sfan5 also called ssd-cached
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00:52 IhrFussel Network: 500 MBit/s
00:55 IhrFussel Is it normal that hosters don't mention the exact used CPU for VPS?
00:55 IhrFussel All I see is "6 vCores"
00:59 Fixer 6 pentium II-like vCores
00:59 Fixer featuring edge cutting TYAN motherboards from 2001
00:59 Fixer dual socket
00:59 Fixer 256 mb of ram
00:59 Fixer ULTRA66 speed
01:00 IhrFussel Nah RAM is 12 GB which is huge
01:01 IhrFussel But I wonder what type of RAM it is
01:01 Fixer SDRAM 133MHz
01:01 Fixer not really
01:01 Fixer 133 chinese workers with papers, good night
01:02 IhrFussel I will check the specs when it's ready...if they aren't that much better than my dedi, I'll not use it...I mean $1 per month is nothing
01:15 IhrFussel I may have ordered the VPS twice by accident o.o ... maybe my mouse clicked twice on the button
01:16 IhrFussel I hope customer support can reverse my order later...
01:17 IhrFussel Well time for bed, see ya later
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06:11 * benrob0329 resists the urge to rain on the Chomium in MT parade
06:11 benrob0329 Embedded browsers for game UIs always have problems, always
06:12 benrob0329 Like advertisements, because who doesnt like random audio and video playing when you join a server?
06:14 sofar it doesn't bother me
06:14 sofar since I won't be using it, nor will it ever go mainstream
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06:17 benrob0329 sofar: true
06:17 benrob0329 Unless compiled plugins become a thing, in which case servers could start depending on them
06:18 benrob0329 In which case we have a whole host of security problems and crap
06:19 benrob0329 But on a different subject, I'm both happy and sad that meta-set nodedef is becoming a thing. Hapy because its incredibly useful but sad because I'm already converting things to entities to get around node problems.
06:20 benrob0329 Nodes can't have mesh animations though
06:20 sofar you know
06:20 sofar I just waved my magic wand, and the problem disappeared
06:20 sofar you can relax now
06:20 sofar my wand is great for problems like that
06:21 benrob0329 Lol
06:21 sofar sadly, it doesn't work against real life threats to our way of living, like, republicans
06:21 sofar or global warming
06:21 benrob0329 No political extream is good, right or left :-)
06:22 benrob0329 *extreme
06:22 sofar when someone screams and yells lies for a year, and ~33% of the population still supports him, that 33% of the population needs to be tarred and feathered.
06:24 benrob0329 Would we be talking about the president, or someone else who can't do anything right?
06:25 sofar last I heard Kim Jong still had 99.99% approval, so I'm definitely not talking about him
06:25 benrob0329 Well no, but thats a different problem
06:27 benrob0329 I find that politics is often riddled with more problems than it solves, which is why I like to stay out of it :-)
06:28 benrob0329 At least, when not talking about fundamental human rights
06:29 benrob0329 Outside of that there tends to be "my internet source is less BS than your internet source" back and forth from both sides of an argument
06:34 sofar are we doing this?
06:34 sofar like, take the embassador to the netherlands
06:34 sofar on video, says "streets are burning, there are no-go zones in the netherlands" (2015)
06:34 sofar then denies it
06:34 sofar then denies the denial
06:34 sofar it seems we're just breeding liars
06:35 sofar maybe it's time to un-breed them
06:35 sofar I'm pretty sure that if we stop giving them money they'd stop lying too, btw
06:39 benrob0329 sofar: when politicians run a country there are sure to be problems
06:40 sofar you know, that's utter nonsense
06:40 jas_ >Yeah, I think it would be really nice to have a server hosting subforum :D
06:40 sofar it's just that we've made politicians in the USA into professional liars
06:41 jas_ that's what i thought, because Servers is in General Discussion
06:41 sofar it doesn't mean they can't do any good
06:41 sofar or that being a politician is a bad thing
06:41 sofar it's just a bad thing because there are no ethical boundaries anymore for politicians
06:41 sofar at least, in the US
06:41 benrob0329 sofar: I cant speak for other countries, but thats how it tends to be in the US
06:41 sofar yeah, so, there are still honest politicians
06:42 sofar I'm convinced, even in the US
06:42 benrob0329 Some, perhaps
06:42 jas_ doesn't really matter
06:44 jas_ still wondering about a servers forum.  because there's 1) Featured, 2) General, 3) User-Contributed, 4) Engine Development.  (I don't see offtopic logged off.)  I think there should be a Servers section
06:44 jas_ (instead of being in general)
06:44 benrob0329 Servers have a topic
06:45 jas_ but i don't know what would go in there besides just the servers LOL and hosting which is a new idea -- not even sure it'd be worth it
06:45 jas_ General->Servers
06:45 jas_ I propose Servers->Servers
06:45 jas_ heh
06:45 jas_ and maybe Servers->Hosting
06:45 jas_ or Servers->Dead Servers
06:45 jas_ etc
06:46 benrob0329 Dead mods don't even get pulled half the time :^)
06:46 sofar because most of the time they can still be downloaded and used
06:46 sofar dead server? not so much
06:47 benrob0329 Like all of Zeg9's mods should be moved to Mt-mods or old mods imho
06:47 sofar I asked him
06:47 jas_ organizational, historical
06:47 sofar like, twice, over a year apart
06:47 benrob0329 They may work, but they arent maintained
06:47 jas_ anyway, there's General, Mods, and I think Servers should be part of them there
06:47 jas_ General, Mods/Games, Servers
06:47 sofar some of the people I asked even on their gmail address
06:47 sofar no response
06:48 benrob0329 Then the mods should be pulled from the main categories, otherwise they'll continue to be used even though abandoned
06:50 benrob0329 Like honestly do these links even work anymore? https://forum.minetest.net/v​iewtopic.php?f=11&amp;t=2841
06:51 benrob0329 I feel like moved mods should not show up in the old category anymore
06:52 jas_ haha that door mod
06:53 jas_ i've seen that before, it's very interesting nonetheless!
06:53 jas_ (not interested enough to try it, i wonder which version it broke at.)
07:15 CWz joined #minetest-hub
07:33 sniper570 joined #minetest-hub
10:06 tenplus1 joined #minetest-hub
10:06 tenplus1 hi folks
10:19 CWz joined #minetest-hub
10:20 Raven262 Hi ten
10:21 tenplus1 hi raven
10:21 tenplus1 hi CWz
10:22 CWz ello
10:22 tenplus1 o/
10:39 tenplus1 Farming Redo updated, nothing major just localized functions
10:47 srifqi joined #minetest-hub
10:49 tenplus1 hi srifqi
10:50 srifqi Hi tenplus1!
10:50 srifqi Long time no see, right?
10:50 tenplus1 hows the holiday season so far ?
10:51 Raven262 #6839 - looks epic, testing now.
10:52 tenplus1 checkng
10:52 srifqi Seems like I sleep too much this holiday.
10:53 tenplus1 I hear ya, lack of sun for all
10:53 tenplus1 raven: oh yeah, dyanmic shadowing looks amazing
10:53 Raven262 Does it seem to lag on the video? Anyways, I'm compiling the branch.
10:54 Raven262 I really wanna see this.
10:54 tenplus1 you do need a decent gpu for it, and recording at same time would cause laggy vid
10:54 Raven262 I hope my APU will be able to run it.
10:55 tenplus1 :P
10:57 srifqi "The Travis CI build failed" ._.
10:57 tenplus1 nuuu
10:58 Raven262 Client::getModFile(): File not found: "*builtin*:/common/strict.lua"
10:59 Raven262 An error^
10:59 Raven262 There is more, but I have no idea what it means anyway.
10:59 Amaz Hello all :)
10:59 Raven262 Hi Amaz :D
11:00 tenplus1 hi Amaz
11:00 Amaz Happy Christmas :D
11:00 tenplus1 hows the hols ??
11:00 Amaz Very good ,thanks :)
11:01 tenplus1 sweet :P
11:01 Amaz How are they for you?
11:02 tenplus1 finally off work :P was buuuuusy
11:02 Amaz Glad you're free now :D
11:07 tenplus1 my wee Acer Aspire Revo is well over 7 years old now... am thinking of upgrading to rasp pi or tinkerboard :D
11:12 Megaf Hi tenplus1
11:12 Megaf Hi Raven262
11:12 tenplus1 o/ Megaf
11:12 Megaf Hi all
11:12 Raven262 Hi Megaf
11:19 Megaf reading about fish species. Getting very hungry!! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salmonidae
11:19 tenplus1 lol
11:19 tenplus1 am contemplating one of these: http://www.trustedreviews.co​m/reviews/asus-tinker-board
11:19 Megaf And I got there reading about salamanders, then metamorphposis and now salmon stuff
11:24 tenplus1 ooh, mobs that metamorphose into bigger badder species if they do certain things... o.O
11:27 IhrFussel joined #minetest-hub
11:27 tenplus1 hi fussel
11:28 IhrFussel Got my new VPS (that was fast) ... now I need some commands to benchmark the performance
11:28 tenplus1 nice one
11:28 IhrFussel Hi tenplus1 ... yeah well yesterday I was told here that my dedi is actually extremely weak and that the server lags most likely happen cause the RAM is so slow
11:29 IhrFussel The RAM is 400 DDR2 DIMM 400mhz
11:29 Fixer joined #minetest-hub
11:29 Fixer joined #minetest-hub
11:30 Megaf IhrFussel: benrob0329 made a mod for that :)
11:30 IhrFussel -400*
11:30 tenplus1 hi fixer
11:30 Megaf IhrFussel: I had the same lag with SSDs, DDR3 and Xeon CPUs man
11:30 IhrFussel The CPU of the VPS is Intel(R) Xeon(R) CPU E5-2680 v3 @ 2.50GHz
11:31 tenplus1 ssd and lag in the same sentence ???
11:31 Megaf BAD devs WILL ALWAYS blame hardware
11:31 Megaf its never their fault
11:31 srifqi joined #minetest-hub
11:31 Megaf always potato hardware fault
11:32 IhrFussel No details about RAM, lshw only shows "12 GBit memory"
11:33 Megaf This is the CPU I had before Intel(R) Xeon(R) CPU E5-2680 v3 @ 2.50GHz
11:33 Megaf IhrFussel: Are you using Linode?
11:34 IhrFussel Nope, seems like many hosters offer that CPU as VPS ... it was the cheapest option ($1 for 6 months, then $15 per month)
11:34 sfan5 Megaf: if you use RAM with half the speed of normal consumer RAM, you can't expect good performance
11:34 tenplus1 yup.... also hi sfan5
11:34 IhrFussel sfan5, how can I test my RAM now with the VPS?
11:35 sfan5 dunno
11:35 Megaf IhrFussel: 1 USD for 6 months!?
11:35 IhrFussel I only have a few days to "undo" my contract...my hoster gives me these days to try it out
11:35 Megaf sfan5: common man, Minetest doesnt even offer any benchmark tool
11:35 sfan5 running a minetest server on it is the best benchmark
11:38 Megaf !up 5.196.88.227 30003
11:38 MinetestBot 5.196.88.227:30003 is up (10ms)
11:39 tenplus1 !up 98.166.87.1 30000
11:39 MinetestBot 98.166.87.1:30000 is up (108ms)
11:39 tenplus1 ooh
11:41 IhrFussel I'm running sysbench now
11:42 IhrFussel sysbench --test=cpu --cpu-max-prime=20000 run < 27 seconds
11:43 IhrFussel Next is I/O then memory
11:43 Fixer hi
11:43 IhrFussel Is 27 seconds *low*? It sounds like a lot
11:44 rubenwardy I think it was 3 for my server
11:44 IhrFussel Single threaded?
11:44 rubenwardy ?
11:44 rubenwardy do you mean single cored? No
11:44 IhrFussel The command runs 1 thread not multiple
11:45 rubenwardy ah, 26s for me
11:45 IhrFussel So 27 is good then
11:45 rubenwardy tbh, benchmarking CPU is a bit silly. You get most of what you  need from the clocking and number of cores stats
11:46 IhrFussel Is this I/O good? Read 37.722Gb  Written 25.148Gb  Total transferred 62.869Gb  (214.59Mb/sec) 13733.81 Requests/sec executed
11:48 IhrFussel Total time is 300 secs*
11:49 sfan5 that's pretty good
11:51 IhrFussel And memory bandwith (test via mbw -t2 4096) AVGMethod: MCBLOCKElapsed: 0.74638MiB: 4096.00000Copy: 5487.844 MiB/s
11:53 IhrFussel MEMCPY is a little slower AVGMethod: MEMCPYElapsed: 0.85070MiB: 4096.00000Copy: 4814.883 MiB/s
11:54 IhrFussel I'd like someone with a powerful PC/dedi/VPS to enter those commands into their terminal and post the AVG since I have no clue what values are good there
11:55 IhrFussel First command is "mbw -t0 4096" and 2nd "mbw -t2 4096"
11:57 Megaf I hate CentOS
11:58 Megaf they dont have anything in the hepos...
11:58 Megaf repos*
11:58 Megaf IhrFussel: run with 1024
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12:00 IhrFussel Megaf, it's the same there no difference between 1024 and 4096
12:01 IhrFussel I mean regarding speed
12:02 IhrFussel AVGMethod: MEMCPYElapsed: 0.20947MiB: 1024.00000Copy: 4888.563 MiB/s +++ AVGMethod: MCBLOCKElapsed: 0.18916MiB: 1024.00000Copy: 5413.266 MiB/s
12:02 Megaf AVG     Method: MEMCPY  Elapsed: 0.87157        MiB: 1024.00000 Copy: 1174.885 MiB/s
12:02 Megaf that was t0
12:02 Megaf AVG     Method: MCBLOCK Elapsed: 0.39268        MiB: 1024.00000 Copy: 2607.725 MiB/s
12:02 Megaf that was t2
12:03 IhrFussel Let me run that on my old dedi now one sec
12:05 IhrFussel Not sure if my dedi RAM is an actual bottleneck ... seems decent  (test via mbw -t2 4096) AVG Method: MCBLOCK Elapsed: 0.74638 MiB: 4096.00000 Copy: 5487.844 MiB/s
12:05 IhrFussel Oops wait
12:05 IhrFussel This is the right one >>> AVGMethod: MEMCPYElapsed: 0.44625MiB: 1024.00000Copy: 2294.653 MiB/s
12:06 Megaf was that t0?
12:07 IhrFussel Yep and here is t2 >>> AVGMethod: MCBLOCKElapsed: 0.30606MiB: 1024.00000Copy: 3345.747 MiB/s
12:07 IhrFussel If I understand that correctly my dedi can move 2+ GB per SECOND in RAM ... how would that slowdown MT?
12:08 rubenwardy RAM won't be an issue
12:08 rubenwardy the main issue is usually storage
12:08 IhrFussel Are you kidding me?? Last night everyone felt sorry for my "crappy RAM"
12:08 rubenwardy unless you have a weak CPU
12:09 rubenwardy how much RAM do you have?
12:09 rubenwardy because the issue would more be the size, as a server with lots of players can use lots
12:09 IhrFussel 1GiB DIMM DDR2 Synchronous 400 MHz (2,5 ns) x 4
12:09 rubenwardy due to loaded chunks
12:09 rubenwardy 1GB is tiny
12:10 tenplus1 yeah, for an Mt server you need at least 4gb
12:10 IhrFussel 4 x 1 GB
12:10 rubenwardy doesn't allow much caching
12:10 rubenwardy 4GB is better
12:10 IhrFussel But read the log from last night...when I posted the RAM specs they said "no wonder MT runs so slow"
12:11 rubenwardy any more traditional server owners willing to provide memory usage stats on their servers with 20+ players?
12:11 tenplus1 Xanadu tends to run at 1.8gb to 2.1gb with 20 odd players active...
12:12 tenplus1 last we checked :P 0.4.16 (july 19th build)
12:12 IhrFussel This new VPS has 12 GB RAM and the RAM is almost twice as fast...the CPU seems to be much better than my dedi one (Intel Xeon vs AMD Opteron)
12:13 IhrFussel I just fear the inconsistent performance since I have to share the machine with others and only get "6 vCores"
12:16 rubenwardy CTF is 0.35GB with 26 players
12:16 rubenwardy which is why I asked for traditional players
12:16 tenplus1 ehe, gotta tweak some settings to get it that low here :) we run on desktop
12:16 rubenwardy ew, server on a residential internet? :O
12:17 tenplus1 yup :) still runs well tho
12:27 Megaf 10:08 <IhrFussel> Are you kidding me?? Last night everyone felt sorry for my "crappy RAM"
12:27 Megaf welcoem to my world
12:27 Megaf been blamed on hardware all the time
12:27 tenplus1 :P
12:28 IhrFussel Did sofar compare my dedi RAM to his local PC or what? Why did he say my RAM is terrible
12:29 IhrFussel Luckily I only pay $1 per month for this VPS for now so I'm not mad
12:35 ThomasMonroe joined #minetest-hub
12:35 tenplus1 hi thomas
12:35 ThomasMonroe hi tenplus1
12:37 * tenplus1 sips le coffee
12:37 * ThomasMonroe doesn't drink coffee
12:37 ThomasMonroe :P
12:38 IhrFussel This VPS is literally naked...I have to install all the common packages myself..there wasn't even apt-add-repository
12:38 tenplus1 I got tea, coffee, wine, cola, water, orange and fresh air
12:38 Shara IhrFussel: 21 players and 2GB RAM use for me right now
12:38 IhrFussel You need to ping rubenwardy with that Shara xP
12:39 tenplus1 hi Shara
12:39 Shara Hi Ten
12:39 Shara IhrFussel: Looked like he was asking to compare to your situation anyway
12:40 Shara And have gone up to 24 players, but it's still holding at 2GB
12:40 Shara To be honest, it's always been CPU where servers I'm involved with seem to feel strain, not RAM
12:41 tenplus1 agree'd... lua can be heavy depending on the mods
12:42 IhrFussel RAM usage was never my problem though?? I said my dedi tends to have 1-2 sec max_lag constantly with 10+ players
12:42 rubenwardy my server is network limited
12:42 rubenwardy I think
12:42 rubenwardy maybe due to settings
12:43 IhrFussel But a AMD Opteron from 2009 isn't the best CPU you can have + single core performance seems to be bad for that one
12:44 Shara DarkLands on the other hand, is sitting at just under 1GB RAM with 14 players
12:46 srifqi tenplus1, fresh air?
12:46 Shara RAM on both servers is constant as well, whereas CPU use is all over the place
12:46 * tenplus1 hands srifqi some fresh air
12:51 CBugDCoder joined #minetest-hub
12:51 tenplus1 hi CB
12:51 CBugDCoder hi ten
12:52 * srifqi thanks tenplus1 for fresh air
12:52 * srifqi inhales it
12:52 tenplus1 :P fresh scottish air
12:52 * srifqi feels refreshed
12:52 srifqi that's cold fresh air :)
12:52 tenplus1 -4c here today... brr
12:53 srifqi mostly about 19C in the night here .-.
12:53 tenplus1 not bad :)
12:54 srifqi tropical zone
12:54 CBugDCoder ten look at pr #6844 :)
12:54 srifqi i wonder whether i can stand with really cold air
12:55 tenplus1 +1'd that already :P it's like the night vision issue I posted a while back :) we need a fullbriht mode
12:55 CBugDCoder ok :)
12:55 tenplus1 https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/6509
12:55 tenplus1 ahh it's listed already :) sweet
12:56 tenplus1 this would be so helpful for spells and night vision items...
12:57 tenplus1 I do like the idea of privs handling most of the new features :P
12:59 compunerd joined #minetest-hub
12:59 tenplus1 wb compunerd
13:00 CBugDCoder yea although it also would be nice to be able to "force" a player to have it on via a hub flag
13:00 srifqi2 joined #minetest-hub
13:04 IhrFussel The VPS is crazy fast O.O ... compiling minetest from SCRATCH in 60 seconds
13:04 tenplus1 wow!
13:07 Jordach joined #minetest-hub
13:08 tenplus1 hi Jordach
13:08 lisac joined #minetest-hub
13:08 tenplus1 hi lisac
13:08 lisac hey tenplus1
13:08 Jordach https://youtu.be/_NgtJ7A9avA
13:08 lisac Hope you saw the best PR yet?
13:08 tenplus1 dynamic lighting ?
13:09 lisac aye
13:09 lisac Jordach: that looks awesome
13:09 tenplus1 :pPpPpP
13:09 Megaf link for best PR please
13:09 tenplus1 ooh nice, did you do the model yourself Jordach ?
13:09 IhrFussel How can I tell git to download the backports branch and not master?
13:09 Jordach tenplus1: yes
13:09 tenplus1 sweet
13:10 Jordach https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/6839
13:12 lisac IhrFussel: git clone, cd <dir>, git checkout <branch>
13:13 lisac so, git clone https://whatever.whatever/whatever.git whatever
13:13 lisac cd whatever
13:13 lisac git checkout this_branch
13:14 IhrFussel lisac, I am in the accindetally pulled master directory now ... where do I go from here?
13:14 lisac git checkout <branch>
13:14 IhrFussel accidentally*
13:15 lisac so, git checkout backport-0.4
13:15 IhrFussel Already on '0.4-backports'
13:15 lisac good. You're done.
13:15 lisac do 'git checkout master' to return to the master branch
13:15 IhrFussel But I mean I need to download the backports files, I have the master files now in my directory
13:16 lisac when you 'git clone', you download all branches already.
13:16 sfan5 git checkout will update the files as required
13:16 IhrFussel So just compile after?
13:16 lisac yeah
13:17 lisac cd build && cmake .. && make -j5
13:19 IhrFussel Can I just replace this line in my build script? https://github.com/minetest/minetest.git;
13:19 IhrFussel I tried to compile and it still said 0.5.0-dev
13:20 sfan5 then something went wrong
13:21 IhrFussel But this is correct so far? https://pastebin.com/HyZCvhKr
13:25 sfan5 you don't need half of those anyway because you're not building a client
13:25 Jordach 🤔
13:25 IhrFussel git branch only shows * master ... is that correct?
13:26 rubenwardy git checkout will automatically create local braches from remote branches
13:28 IhrFussel Now I tried checkoeut again and see "Switched to a new branch 'backport-0.4'" ... can I compile now?
13:28 sfan5 yes
13:28 sfan5 someone should really create a proper server compiling script
13:28 IhrFussel But how does the compiler know which files to compile when nothing changed?
13:29 IhrFussel I see no "diff" when I type checkout just "Switched to a new branch"
13:31 EvergreenTree joined #minetest-hub
13:31 tenplus1 hi evergreen
13:31 sfan5 that's fine, just run make
13:32 IhrFussel Ahh seems to work now...0.4.17-dev
13:36 lumberJ joined #minetest-hub
13:41 IhrFussel Anyone got some free time and want to test server lag on my VPS? 85.214.239.123 port 25000 ... I will give you fly and fast when you join
13:42 sfan5 maybe in 30 minutes
13:43 IhrFussel Or wait, I'll set those as default privs
13:43 sfan5 i don't have 0.4.16 installed here anyway
13:52 IhrFussel sfan5, does vCores mean they count as real cores and I could theoretically set num_emerge_threads to 4 since I have 6?
13:52 sfan5 yes
14:09 IhrFussel The VPS seems to have a much better performance...it's even below systemd process in top when idling
14:13 behalebabo joined #minetest-hub
14:53 Calinou vCores are not the same as real cores
14:53 Calinou they're shared, but VDS (Virtual Dedicated Server, more expensive than a VPS) come with dedicated (but virtual!) cores
14:53 Calinou unlike a VPS, you won't get slapped if you use 100% of the CPU on a VDS
14:53 Calinou (for long periods of time)
14:54 Calinou VDSes are rarely interesting from an economical point of view, though
14:54 IhrFussel I know that they are not 100% real cores, but they act like real ones
14:54 Calinou yeah, until someone runs their Chrome headless bot to farm clicks
14:54 Calinou :-)
14:54 Calinou (true story, I know someone who was a volunteer at a French nonprofit VPS provider)
14:55 IhrFussel Right now the VPS performance is much better compared to my dedi and max_lag peaks at 0.3 whereas on my dedi it would be above 1.0 now
14:57 IhrFussel It stays at 0.1 when not moving on the map for a few minutes...that is amazing... but I wanna know how low the performance can get when someone else runs something intensive
15:05 IhrFussel The texture pack shouldn't affect server perfrormance right? It's just sent to clients and the do the rest?
15:06 IhrFussel they*
15:06 tenplus1 only connection times when buffering media
15:11 IhrFussel I'm flying around with fast, kill lots of mobs, use noclip ... max_lag 0.16
15:12 IhrFussel I think I will move over to that VPS...
15:13 IhrFussel The only problem is the IP ... is there a way to reidirect my players from one IP to another?
15:15 IhrFussel Or I just let the old server still run for some time and show everone an error on prejoin "We moved to another IP" or so
15:22 rubenwardy I did that ^
15:25 Krock joined #minetest-hub
15:25 sfan5 this is why you should use a domain name instead
15:25 Krock hi tenplus1
15:25 tenplus1 hey krock
15:25 tenplus1 how's things ?
15:25 Krock just fine, thanks? how about you?
15:25 tenplus1 oh so tired :P but okie
15:26 Krock duh.. I see. you were slower than me this time
15:26 tenplus1 lol
15:26 tenplus1 updating my mobile :P and wondering why google wants so many apps on it I dont use ?!?!
15:29 rubenwardy and +1 to sfan5
15:29 rubenwardy they're really cheap
15:30 rubenwardy especially compared to hosting
15:30 rubenwardy tenplus1, what apps? It's more likely to be your OEM
15:31 IhrFussel sfan5, I actually have a free .tk domain ... unfortunately I forgot to set in minetest.conf as address
15:32 tenplus1 Ruben: google keyboard, google launcher, google play store, youtube, google services etc. etc.
15:32 rubenwardy fair
15:32 * Shara really should get a domain name...
15:32 rubenwardy although google keyboard isn't required by google
15:32 rubenwardy Shara, you should!
15:32 tenplus1 pain in the butt... cant wait for a truly open linux mobile...
15:32 Shara It's completely ridiculous that I still didn't.
15:33 Shara But I still didn't find one I like, and don't really want to use one of my free ones (even if I managed to hold them for several years already...)
15:37 IhrFussel Calinou, does more vCores mean -> more minimum performance?
15:40 benrob0329 tenplus1: Krock:
15:40 * benrob0329 uploaded an image: screenshot_20171227_003158.png (909KB) <https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/v1/down​load/matrix.org/BbAhuhmkpqUrsSoSQlPGIDkN>
15:40 benrob0329 Semi-random pattern plays nicer with the mipmap
15:40 tenplus1 heh, semi transparant entity :) sweet
15:41 Krock benrob0329, <tardis sounds plays>
15:58 IhrFussel Does the tar command support partoffile*.txt ?
15:58 tenplus1 it should do
15:59 tenplus1 although I tend to pre-select whole folders for backup
16:14 IhrFussel I wonder why the VPS has a 500 mbit/s connection while my dedi only has a 100 mbit/s one
16:14 IhrFussel It's the same hoster ... kinda not fair
16:16 tenplus1 a small preview into the anti-net neutrality changes :PPP
16:19 benrob0329 IhrFussel: because you have a greedy hoster? :P
16:24 benrob0329 tenplus1: the new masks are generated using blender, so no hand drawn masks :D
16:24 tenplus1 it looks pretty kewl :D
16:25 benrob0329 Thanks, now I have to male it have the features of the node
16:34 IhrFussel Is that how tar is supposed to work? tar -czvf mtmove.tar.gz .minetest/worlds/oldserver ... when I unzip that in my home directory it puts the files into .minetest/worlds/oldserver o.o
16:35 rubenwardy it includes the full path as part of it
16:35 rubenwardy so you want to cd to it
16:35 rubenwardy cd .minetest/worlds/; tar -czvf ~/mtmove.tar.gz oldserver
16:36 rubenwardy then it'll untar to "oldserver"
16:36 IhrFussel So did it overwrite my whole .minetest directory now? Or just added files that weren't there before?
16:36 tenplus1 we use this to backup xanadu:   tar cpzfv $(date +%F).tar.gz .minetest
16:38 rubenwardy does anyone know how I can generate a series of gorges?
16:39 rubenwardy hmmm
16:41 * tenplus1 calls upon the earthquake gods
16:41 rubenwardy I basically want a simple maze of gorges
16:42 rubenwardy with two clearings
16:42 tenplus1 I think there;s a mod that loads a bitmap image to generate landscape... could use that to have peaks and gorges in specific areas
16:42 rubenwardy oooh, that's a good idea
16:42 rubenwardy then I can edit it to look more natural after loading it in
16:43 tenplus1 yup :)
16:44 tenplus1 gotta play around with that mod at some point :) would be interesting
16:45 rubenwardy do you know the name?
16:46 tenplus1 checking
16:47 tenplus1 https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic​.php?f=9&amp;t=6751&amp;hilit=bitmap
16:47 tenplus1 think it's that one
16:48 rubenwardy that's for placing them as images using wool, not heightmaps
16:48 Amaz I think this one adds 3d detail to it: https://forum.minetest.net/v​iewtopic.php?f=9&amp;t=12666
16:48 tenplus1 ooh yeah, das it :)))
16:49 tenplus1 1st one had no screenshots so wasnt sure :D
16:49 tenplus1 thanks amaz
16:49 Amaz np :)
16:56 IhrFussel BUG found: Searching for [ in the server list crashes the main menu
16:57 tenplus1 crap, must be a :find special code
16:58 paramat joined #minetest-hub
16:58 tenplus1 o/ paramat
16:59 rubenwardy heh, doesn't work
16:59 rubenwardy IhrFussel, fixed in 0.5
16:59 rubenwardy I believe
16:59 IhrFussel Hi paramat ... I found that bug cause I wanted to name my new server list entry [NEW] IFS to tell people which one is the new one
16:59 rubenwardy ok, apparently not
16:59 IhrFussel That could be
17:00 rubenwardy it's due to Lua's stupid stupid standard library
17:00 tenplus1 lol
17:09 EvergreenTree joined #minetest-hub
17:11 tenplus1 hi evergreen
17:12 rubenwardy https://github.com/bobombolo/realterrain/issues/1
17:12 rubenwardy :'(
17:12 IhrFussel sfan5, now I have this error servers.minetest.net/announce not found (HTTP response code said error) (response code 418)
17:13 tenplus1 disable mod security for that it says
17:13 rubenwardy I did
17:16 tenplus1 in need of a few nil checks... shoudl be fixable
17:17 rubenwardy ah!
17:17 rubenwardy there's a mode to remove biomes
17:18 rubenwardy still crashes
17:20 rubenwardy so, anyone got any other ideas for maps for CTF?
17:20 rubenwardy preferably ones I don't need to write or fix a custom mapgen for
17:20 tenplus1 lol
17:26 IhrFussel Please can someone help?? I get 418 error when I try to announce to the server list
17:28 paramat gorges hmm
17:29 rubenwardy IhrFussel, only sfan5 can help you
17:29 paramat you could use mgv7 and create high terrain, then use river channels to create the maze of gorges. remove water to make the gorges dry
17:30 paramat river noise: small scale and high persistence to create a mazelike pattern
17:31 paramat clear biomes and define a new biome with 'node_water = "air"'
17:33 tenplus1 nite folks :PPP
17:34 tenplus1 left #minetest-hub
17:36 Jordach joined #minetest-hub
17:36 rubenwardy paramat, hmmm, I'll have a try
17:39 paramat river channels may not make a very good maze, but with persistence 0.7-1.0+ maybe
17:39 rubenwardy it's not meant to be a maze as such
17:40 rubenwardy more like a mesh
17:40 rubenwardy so not many dead ends
17:40 tumeninodes joined #minetest-hub
17:40 rubenwardy I'll TAL
17:40 tumeninodes paramat, no gorges till I see river option in Mg flat :P
17:41 tumeninodes <crickets>
17:42 rubenwardy I can use worldedit to get rid of water
17:42 rubenwardy hmm
17:42 rubenwardy how do I create high terrain?
17:44 rubenwardy looks like this is making just a sea from multiple rivers connecting
17:44 tumeninodes maybe valleys would be a better start point?
17:45 rubenwardy huh, scale is an int
17:45 rubenwardy I guess it's spread I want
17:47 tumeninodes scale, I think
17:47 rubenwardy is this what you meant? https://github.com/rubenwardy/capturethef​lag/blob/multimap/mods/ctf_map/README.md
17:47 rubenwardy eerrr
17:47 rubenwardy oops
17:47 rubenwardy heh
17:48 rubenwardy https://i.rubenwardy.com/JVn8OnGP4f.png
17:48 rubenwardy that link^^^
17:48 rubenwardy looks a bit odd to me
17:48 tumeninodes o_o
17:50 tumeninodes https://forum.minetest.net/vi​ewtopic.php?p=227726#p227726
17:51 tumeninodes and this https://forum.minetest.net/vi​ewtopic.php?p=227735#p227735
17:59 tumeninodes wishful thinking http://www-cs-students.stanford.edu/~amitp​/game-programming/polygon-map-generation/
18:02 sfan5 IhrFussel: should work now
18:02 IhrFussel What was the problem? Blacklisted?
18:08 sfan5 make sure you're running backport-0.4 of minetest_game too
18:09 IhrFussel That's the problem yeah... is there a way to get the backport master.zip via wget?
18:09 sfan5 https://github.com/minetest/minet​est_game/archive/backport-0.4.zip
18:16 paramat indeed the river channels may not make a good 'mesh', i was hoping high persistence might
18:17 paramat the river noise 'scale' should be reduced 'np_ridge_uwater'
18:17 paramat for high terrain set the noise 'offset' to a high number, for noises 'terrain base' and 'terrain alt'
18:18 paramat oops
18:18 paramat i mean river noise 'spread' should be reduved
18:19 paramat *reduced
18:19 paramat maybe to (500, 500, 500)
18:20 paramat remove water by using a custom biome
18:23 Megaf rubenwardy: CTF?
18:25 IhrFussel Thanks, everything seems to work now and the lag is extremely low :D
18:26 rubenwardy Megaf, capture the flag
18:47 Megaf IhrFussel: what did you do to reduce lag?
18:47 sfan5 he moved to a new server lol
18:47 Megaf lol
18:48 Megaf I got my map to load way faster by reducing global_server_step
18:48 Megaf and there's virtualy no lag in carts
18:49 Megaf That is so cool
18:49 Megaf I can actually make a programable computer now in Minetest
18:58 Megaf !seen lazyj
18:58 MinetestBot Megaf: lazyj was last seen at 2017-12-26 17:15:30 UTC on #minetest
18:58 Megaf !tell LazyJ Hi.
18:58 MinetestBot Megaf: I'll pass that on when LazyJ is around
18:58 Megaf !tell paramat Hi.
18:58 MinetestBot Megaf: yeah, yeah
19:06 IhrFussel max_lag 0.15 with EIGHT players and 175 mods... were my dedi specs really THAT bad?
19:07 CBugDCoder joined #minetest-hub
19:24 * Megaf wonders how one get 15 players online
19:24 Megaf thouh he said 8
19:27 Megaf Hold my beer, lets make a new server home hosted
19:27 tumeninodes left #minetest-hub
19:35 Sokomine IhrFussel: same map, same mods?
19:35 IhrFussel Anyone a clue why I cannot visit my web pages? I installed lighttpd and php-cgi and enabled everything and now I get PHP Fatal error:  Uncaught PDOException: could not find driver in /var/www/index.php
19:35 IhrFussel Sokomine, yes everything is the same and lag is crazy low so it was my dedi specs
19:47 davisonio joined #minetest-hub
20:06 paramat joined #minetest-hub
20:06 MinetestBot paramat: Dec-27 18:58 UTC <Megaf> Hi.
20:06 Fixer hold my peanuts
20:07 Megaf I had forgotten how fast my Phenom II x4 955 BE was
20:07 Megaf way faster than this Core2Duo
20:08 Megaf no wonder, 4 3,2 GHz vs 2 2,4 GHz
20:08 Megaf Though I have DDR 2 in my Phenom
20:16 Megaf meh, in my Phenom I build two minetest servers in the time my Core2Duo builds 1/3
20:17 Megaf I wonder how fast is the ThreadRippers in building software
20:19 IhrFussel "Microsoft joins" ... uh oh incoming lawsuit
20:25 Megaf it's server_port or just port in minetest.conf to set the port the server will listen to?
20:25 Megaf just port
20:27 Megaf sofar: what's your remote media server?
20:27 sofar what do you mean?
20:27 Megaf sofar: I need for default subgame for backport-0.4 and master
20:28 Megaf sofar: wasnt you who had a public media server?
20:28 sofar yes
20:28 sofar https://forum.minetest.net/vi​ewtopic.php?f=14&amp;t=18951
20:29 sofar just point to it, you'll get most stuff from my media server anyway
20:29 sofar I should carry 0.4.16 mtg, I have git master now, but I'll add 0.4.16
20:29 sofar not that it matters that much
20:33 Aerozoic joined #minetest-hub
20:35 Megaf yep, added to the settings already
20:35 Megaf I will be spinning up a 0.4.17 and a 0.5 server in 10 minutes or so
20:36 Megaf they will be both vanilla and unmoderated servers
20:42 xerox123 is 0.5.0-stable on the horizon anytime soon?
20:43 Megaf how does Carpathian compares to v7 paramat ?
20:43 Megaf xerox123: maybe Jan
20:43 xerox123 yay
20:44 Megaf I dont know which mapgen to use
20:45 Megaf will trye valleys
20:45 Shara Megaf, would be nice to see some servers using Carpathian
20:45 Megaf Ok, Capathian it is then
20:45 Shara Looks like there is only one so far, and it seems to be a russian language one
20:46 Shara But using a different mapgen than the norm can be a good way to draw people in
20:47 Megaf Two Carpathian server for that lovely girl over there!
20:47 Megaf Would you like a glass of wine with that Shara ?
20:47 Shara Red please :)
20:48 Megaf Great choice
20:50 IhrFussel xerox123, no not in Jan ... they want to overhault MT Android first before they release it
20:50 IhrFussel overhaul*
20:50 xerox123 aw
20:50 Megaf xerox123: nothing is impossible tho
20:51 Megaf sfan5: server list is broken
20:51 sfan5 ?_?
20:53 Megaf sfan5: <ERROR> 2017-12-27 18:53:03: [CurlFetch] servers.minetest.net/announce not found (HTTP response code said error) (response code 418)
20:53 Megaf !server =IML=
20:53 MinetestBot Megaf: No results
20:54 Megaf sfan5: two servers that begin with =IML=
20:54 Megaf the IP/address is dynamic
20:54 Megaf !up 179.177.215.108 30050
20:54 MinetestBot 179.177.215.108:30050 is up (259ms)
20:54 Megaf !up 179.177.215.108 30416
20:54 MinetestBot 179.177.215.108:30416 seems to be down
20:54 Megaf !up 179.177.215.108 30417
20:55 Megaf !up 179.177.215.108 30417
20:55 MinetestBot 179.177.215.108:30417 is up (263ms)
20:55 Megaf Shara: new servers using the carpathian mapgen
20:55 Megaf 30417 for Minetest 0.4.17 and 30050 for Minetest 0.5.0
20:56 Megaf thanks sfan5
20:56 IhrFussel rubenwardy, do you know if I can simply copy my SSL cert from my other machine? Or do I need to generate an entirely new one?
20:56 Megaf !up =IML=
20:56 MinetestBot Megaf: invalid address
20:56 Megaf !server =IML=
20:56 MinetestBot Megaf: "=IML= Clan Server - Minetest 0.5.0 Vanilla" | 179.177.215.108:30050 | Clients: 0/100, 0/0 | Version: 0.5.0-dev / minetest | Ping: 263ms
20:56 Megaf yay
20:56 sfan5 IhrFussel: SSL certs are not bound to your IP, you can copy them
20:57 Megaf Im online in the 0.4.17 server
21:02 paramat um
21:03 paramat carp has much more realistic mountains, not floaty blobs
21:03 paramat but no rivers
21:04 paramat carp also has lots more flat space for building
21:04 paramat the mountains really are stunning
21:04 xerox123 can a 0.5 client connect to a 0.4.16 server?
21:04 paramat no
21:04 Megaf paramat: you call that realistic?
21:04 Megaf really?
21:05 paramat well, 'more'
21:05 Megaf All I see is math waves
21:05 paramat you and your waves
21:05 Calinou meth waves would be more realistic
21:06 paramat but then, perlin noise is a combination of irregular waves
21:14 Megaf I cant edit anything in adv settings in minetst on macOS
21:16 Megaf paramat: didnt find a single normal tree in carpathian yet
21:17 Megaf !up megaf.hopto.org 30417
21:17 MinetestBot megaf.hopto.org:30417 seems to be down
21:23 Megaf dont set fps_max = -1
21:23 Megaf just dont
21:24 benrob0329 Megaf: *boom*
21:25 Megaf I was expecting that to disable FPS limiter
21:25 Megaf benrob0329: by the way, =IML= servers are a nice showcase for Minetest vanilla. I will try to keep them always updated. And they are in creative mode
21:26 Megaf I just need people to start building there :P
21:28 Sokomine carpathian really seems to look nice. a testworld just generated has huge plains
21:31 Megaf Minetest is almost unplayable in macOS =/
21:31 Megaf mouse behaviour is so frustrating
21:31 Megaf very jittery and unpredictable
21:31 Megaf it was bad 5 years ago, now it's even worse
21:31 Megaf even tho I'm playing at 200 FPS
21:31 Megaf so dont fucking blame my hardware
21:32 Megaf sfan5 ^^^^^^^^
21:32 benrob0329 MacOS is...*cough*
21:32 Megaf macOS for you
21:32 sfan5 how am I related to your rant about missing macOS support
21:33 benrob0329 There is no support because no devs use MacOS afaik
21:34 Megaf sfan5: you often blame my hardware
21:37 Calinou Megaf: try setting some FPS limit
21:37 Calinou (like 60 or 100)
21:38 Calinou benrob0329: that is indeed true, macOS developers in "native" open source software are uncommon these days
21:38 Calinou (i.e. not JavaScript)
21:38 Megaf Calinou: the default is 60, increasing the FPS limit creating decrease jitter
21:38 Megaf but it doesn elimitate, its a reported bug on github
21:38 Calinou I saw it
21:38 Megaf FPS limit is set to 1000 now
21:40 Megaf MT for macOS should use macOS graphical server and not this thing called Xorg
21:40 Megaf we dont use Xorg on WIndows do we?
21:40 Megaf we dont use Xorg on Android, do we?
21:40 Megaf Why do we use it in macOS?
21:42 Megaf Any dev here that would accept a mac mini donation to better port Minetest for macOS?
21:43 Calinou <Megaf> MT for macOS should use macOS graphical server and not this thing called Xorg
21:43 Calinou feel free to implement support for it in Irrlicht :-)
21:43 Calinou I think Irrlicht handles this, not Minetest
21:44 Calinou also, Minetest has almost no players on macOS…
21:44 Calinou most of the desktop players are on Windows or Linux
21:48 paramat but yes carpathian is very wavey, mostly mixtures of 2D noise
21:49 IhrFussel Calinou, any clue what's better about multiple virtual cores vs one? Does it mean I have more guaranteed performance?
21:49 paramat biome distribution is not affected by mapgen choice, so keep travelling
21:50 Calinou IhrFussel: it will perform better, especially for map generation
21:50 Calinou and you should always have at least 2 for a game server
21:50 Calinou else, anything the OS has to do in the background will slow down the game server process
21:51 Megaf [19:44:10] <Calinou> also, Minetest has almost no players on macOS…
21:51 Megaf of course, MT build barerly works
21:51 benrob0329 Megaf: we dont use Xorg on MacOS afaik
21:51 Calinou the other open source games which support macOS don't have that many players using it either
21:51 IhrFussel Yes but I mean can other customers still slow down my server when I have 6 for myself?
21:51 Megaf benrob0329: we do, it depends on XQuartz
21:51 Megaf Xorg translation layer
21:52 benrob0329 Ah
21:52 benrob0329 Never built on MacOS, only installed
21:52 Megaf it is a full bloat X server that runs on top of macOS graphical server
21:52 Megaf its amazing it works at all
21:52 IhrFussel If I understand it correctly 1 virtual core means a certain % of the actual CPU ... so more vcores should mean more % of the CPU for my needs
21:52 Megaf and Irrlicht can use OpenGL directly AFAIK
21:53 benrob0329 Megaf: OpenGL doesnt handle windowing
21:53 Megaf http://www.irrlicht3d.org/wiki/in​dex.php?n=Main.CompilingOnMacOSX
21:53 Megaf Irrlicht uses X11...
21:54 Megaf once again we are limited by Irrlicht...
21:54 Megaf we MUST change the engine se use
21:54 Megaf we use*
21:54 benrob0329 Godot rewrite when? :P
21:54 Megaf and drop Lua or at least use it's implementation for threads
21:55 benrob0329 Why do you hate Lua? You dont even write code
21:55 Megaf Godot supports even HTML5
21:55 Megaf benrob0329: I love Lua, I just believe it's not ideal for Minetest
21:56 Megaf Due to the nature of our mods I believe Python would better suit us
21:56 benrob0329 MT's biggest limitation is often a lack of developer experience, we need a graphics guy
21:56 Megaf I'd say we shouldn't care for graphics yet
21:56 Megaf we don't have the bare minimum working even
21:56 paramat heh drop irrlicht and lua, i look forward to your PR
21:56 benrob0329 Love2D uses Lua, and its games run lightning fast
21:57 benrob0329 Even on mobile
21:57 Megaf Minetest is way more complex than that
21:57 Megaf can't compare
21:57 benrob0329 MT handles a lot more in-engine
21:58 Megaf If we were to drop Irrlicht and Lua, that would mean a 100% rewrite of Minetest, right?
21:59 Calinou yes
21:59 Calinou #RewriteMinetestInGodot
21:59 Megaf we wouldn't be able to reuse any code,
21:59 Megaf or would we?
21:59 benrob0329 Gmod uses Lua, and has far more complex mods
21:59 benrob0329 Maybe the meshgen, and networking
21:59 Megaf benrob0329: no need to try to convince me, it wont happen. And MT wont change from Lua. So relax :)
22:00 benrob0329 I just dont understand why you are so set on the idea that Lua is a problem
22:01 benrob0329 We have some bad engine design, and some bad irrlicht usage
22:09 Calinou Megaf: it's possible, but you probably wouldn't want to do it :)
22:11 benrob0329 Megaf: there was a time when I hated Lua and though Python would be better for MT, I have since changed my stance quite a bit :-)
22:15 rubenwardy Megaf: if you buy me a MBP, I'll fix Mac OS support
22:15 rubenwardy Deal?
22:15 rubenwardy :D
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22:25 paramat joined #minetest-hub
22:28 Megaf rubenwardy: Maybe. I need a job first
22:28 Megaf me getting a job I will put money in Minetest
22:29 Megaf I love Minetest. Minetest and me is the longest relationship I have ever had
22:31 Calinou I get a feeling I've already seen that saying…
22:38 Megaf me gusta https://germanalen.itch.io/verdigris
22:39 Megaf https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVytT3s2FZA
22:39 Megaf https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TnYzNBRenEw
22:39 Megaf !title
22:39 MinetestBot Megaf: Verdigris Gameplay - YouTube
22:40 Jordach [off
22:40 Jordach reee
22:41 Megaf I have no idea how to make a game like MT and MC
22:42 Megaf kudos to c55
22:59 sofar paramat: are we ever going to get OpenSimplex noise instead of perlin noise?
23:20 EvergreenTree joined #minetest-hub
23:27 paramat maybe, but not instead of
23:27 paramat hmmmm was interested in adding simplex noise
23:30 ThomasMonroe joined #minetest-hub
23:34 paramat not sure if i would be able to code it
23:42 Megaf in Lua or C++?
23:53 sofar C++, doing it in lua would't help much
23:53 sofar someone could already implement it in lua anyway
23:53 sfan5 would just be kinda slow

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