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IRC log for #minetest-hub, 2017-10-01

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
01:00 Natechip pls see what I said in #minetest-dev
01:01 Shara Natechip: Even I won't try compiling on Windows anymore
01:01 Shara I've done it before, but the headaches...
01:02 Natechip Shara: im just stuck on LIB /DEF:sqlite3.def /OUT:sqlite3.lib
01:02 Natechip it says LIB isnt a command
01:03 Shara Hmm, I don't remember seeing anything like that
01:03 Shara But it's been a while since I tried
01:04 Natechip Shara: https://github.com/minetes​t/minetest/tree/stable-0.4
01:04 Shara If I need to compile, I switch to Linux
01:05 Shara Sorry, but I won't even try it again after the last time.
01:05 Natechip what happened?
01:05 Shara Just kept running into problem after problem
01:05 Shara I can't spend hours compiling if I want to test something
01:05 Shara Linux = minutes
01:05 Natechip all I need is sqlite3.lib XD I wonder if someone can somehow get it for me
01:07 Natechip Shara: it would probably help if I knew what visual studio thing im suppose to install :/
01:07 Shara I used 2013, but not sure if it makes a difference
01:07 Shara It just happened to be what I had here
01:08 Shara It might now, since things were updated
01:08 Natechip well do I get community or what
01:08 Shara I have no idea
01:09 Natechip what did u get when u tried
01:09 Shara I just told you what I used
01:09 Shara VS 2013
01:09 Natechip it just says Visual Studio 2017...
01:09 Shara Then yours is more recent, and should be better than what I had
01:10 ThomasMonroe community would work
01:10 Natechip all I see is one for VS Code, VS Community, VS Pro, VS Entr.
01:10 ThomasMonroe community
01:10 Natechip k
01:10 Natechip thx
01:10 ThomasMonroe though after 30 days youre going to need to sign up to keep working in it
01:10 Natechip meh
01:11 ThomasMonroe its still free, but they want to make sure you are serious about it XD
01:11 Natechip lol
01:12 Natechip watch soon enough your going to need to sign up to play minetest and have a registered account name XD
01:12 Shara I wonder if compiling on WIndows is worse than fighting formspecs... I actually realised I'm not sure.
01:13 Natechip Shara: a new thing that would be good is a easier way to compile on windows
01:13 Shara Agreed, it would be very good. But not something I'd know how to do
01:13 Shara I mostly just write mods and run servers
01:14 Natechip Shara: u think I would be able to make a simple bat file to do all this?
01:16 Natechip might take some work...
01:16 Natechip anyway
01:16 Natechip Im ganna restart one sec
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01:22 Shara Welcome back Natechip
01:22 Natechip joined #minetest-hub
01:22 Natechip thx
01:24 Natechip why isnt LIB working O_O
01:28 * Natechip claps
01:28 Natechip lib.exe is missing from VS 2017
01:28 Natechip -_-
01:38 Natechip oh
01:38 Natechip I got it
01:43 ThomasMonroe is it working for you now?
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01:55 Natechip ThomasMonroe: sloooowwwlllyyy downloading VS 2015
01:55 ThomasMonroe heh, yeah it takes a while
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02:13 Natechip ThomasMonroe: connection problems?
02:24 ThomasMonroe nope, just trying out soe things
02:24 ThomasMonroe some*
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02:54 Natechip Shara: this is harder than I thought
02:54 Natechip ive got a work around though...
02:55 Natechip im hoping I can create something to make this easier for the others
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05:21 lordfingle joined #minetest-hub
05:21 lordfingle Greetings Minetenticles!
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08:50 CWz anyone know anything about FGH, a griefer.
08:51 Raven262 joined #minetest-hub
08:52 CWz anyone know anything about FGH and AngelX007GR, griefers.
08:53 Raven262 Under those names, nope.
08:53 Raven262 Might be anyone though.
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09:18 Megaf Greetings
09:19 Megaf Hi shivajiva Raven262
09:20 Raven262 Hi Megaf
09:26 sniper570 joined #minetest-hub
09:41 shivajiva Hiya Megaf, Raven o/
09:46 CWz I know that this might come off as reverse-assed question but, is it possible to change my server to a lower postion of the public serverlist?
09:47 * shivajiva polishes his handrolled auth handler
09:47 shivajiva CWz turn it off for a bit, that will drop you in the ranks
09:48 shivajiva or get a hoard of mobile users playing, that will affect it :)
09:52 Raven262 Hi shivajiva
10:01 CWz Will have to figure out how to setup sban without luarocks. hopefully won't be too difficult
10:06 Krock CWz, reset the age, compile the binary so it announces a higher ping or player count
10:06 Krock or even report an old protocol version, which will definitely make yours as one of the most lowest servers
10:10 sfan5 Krock: ping is determined by the server list
10:10 sfan5 announcing a lower player count does not matter either as you'd need to actually omit players from your list
10:10 sfan5 simplest way is to reset the age of your world
10:12 Krock sfan5, eh, I meant "lag", not ping :3
10:13 sfan5 *checks code*
10:13 Krock https://github.com/minetest/minetest​/blob/master/src/serverlist.cpp#L225
10:13 sfan5 Krock: that value does not matter actually
10:14 sfan5 probably because nobody really understood what it was supposed to mean
10:14 Krock hehe :)
10:14 sfan5 (matter = have any effect on serverlist placement)
10:15 sfan5 wait you linked the game_time value, now i'm confused
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10:20 IhrFussel Hi there, I'll try again: How can I make the face of the node rotate to the PLAYER on_place? place_param2 and minetest.rotate_node seem to be wrong
10:22 IhrFussel I looked at the default:chest code and cannot find the parameter or function that makes this possible
10:22 sfan5 paramtype2 = "facedir", legacy_facedir_simple = true, seems to work just fine (default:furnace from minimal)
10:23 IhrFussel Oh so it's the legacy_facedir_simple = true bit?
10:25 IhrFussel The name of that parameter doesn't sound THAT inviting cause it says "legacy" which many see as "deprecated"
10:26 shivajiva hmm legacy and deprecated are not the same
10:27 IhrFussel No but you gotta admit the name of this parameter doesn't make it sound like "current way to rotate the node to the player"
10:27 sfan5 i think that param just switches from the "new" 6dir facedir to 4dir facedir
10:27 sfan5 it shouldn't affect placing the node
10:27 shivajiva a legacy implies support, deprecated implies desist from using it
10:28 shivajiva imho :)
10:31 IhrFussel shivajiva, yes you're right and sfan5 that parameter really doesn't turn the node by any means...so I'm not sure what I'm missing I got paramtype2 = "facedir" in the definition
10:32 sfan5 IhrFussel: here's code that definitely works http://sprunge.us/IAjW?lua
10:35 shivajiva looking at my code I seem to use legacy_facedir_simple = true for chests to get the orientation correct
10:36 IhrFussel sfan5, why wouldn't this work then :/ https://pastebin.com/R8TZL0Ei
10:36 shivajiva which clearly matches what sfan5 stated
10:38 shivajiva https://pastebin.com/CVrMnmT1
10:39 shivajiva see what I mean
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10:40 shivajiva o/
10:40 Krock o/
10:41 IhrFussel Okay I think the problem was that the front tile wasn't the last specified
10:41 shivajiva :)
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10:51 IhrFussel So legacy_facedir_simple = true is only required if I want my nodes to work on maps that were created <= 2012 ?
10:52 paramat IhrFussel you didn't clearly specify what rotation behaviour you wanted. good question about how chests rotate, i can't see how they rotate to face the player yet
10:52 paramat oh and yes, facedir simple is very old stuff
10:52 IhrFussel paramat, paramtype2 = "facedir" does rotate them to the player, but I misplaced the tiles
10:53 paramat ahh i was wondering if it did
10:54 IhrFussel I didn't know that the front tile HAS TO be the last one specified
11:01 shivajiva if you are using more than a single image I believe the order must be followed for the node to tile correctly
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11:11 IhrFussel I'll kepp that in mind now^^ ... another question: does the post_effect_color parameter of a node only apply when the head is inside the node?
11:11 IhrFussel keep*
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11:12 IhrFussel I'm guessing it's like water/lava
11:17 sfan5 indeed, i think it was made specifically for liquids
11:50 CWz rubenwardy, congrats on being upgraded to gold
11:53 Krock ^ not gold, just yellow. gold would have some nice 2000-style blinky animations
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12:00 sfan5 Minetest Forums™ gold membership©
12:01 IhrFussel What does the engine do if a Japanese app let's players enter a Japanese name? Does the server reject the name?
12:01 IhrFussel lets*
12:02 sfan5 yes
12:03 IhrFussel Is the name check only server-side? Like if the server owner was a pro in c++ and changes the engine to accept Japanese characters for names would it work?
12:04 sfan5 yes
12:04 sfan5 however it's very likely that doing so will cause random problems to crop up anywhere
12:05 Calinou <Shara> I wonder if compiling on WIndows is worse than fighting formspecs... I actually realised I'm not sure.
12:05 Calinou Shara: it would be much easier if it worked out of the box with MSYS2
12:06 Calinou I think I'll open an issue about this, but it's probably CMake's fault (or the Minetest CMake files)
12:06 Shara I still haven't decided which is worse here. Formspecs do not like me.
12:07 Calinou with MSYS2, I can compile ioquake3, Yamagi Quake 2, gifsicle, Urho3D… pretty easily
12:07 Calinou you just install dependencies using pacman (like on Arch Linux, but the package names are different) then you can use `make` or whatever is needed
12:09 Shara Something to simplify it all would be nice, though I moved over to using Linux any time I wanted to compile it myself quite a long time back.
12:10 Calinou MSYS2 makes it easy, without needing to use the WSL to cross-compile to Windows (or a virtual machine)
12:10 Fixer Calinou: minetest is easily done too, just replace make with mingw-make
12:11 Fixer in buildbot
12:11 Fixer i wonder if i need to update my msys2
12:13 IhrFussel I find nerzhul's network PR very interesting... seems like the code using ASIO is much more tiny
12:13 sfan5 IhrFussel: that's because asio is a 2 megabyte librarys
12:13 sfan5 s/s$//
12:13 Calinou Fixer: yeah but I don't want to use buildbot
12:13 Calinou just manual git clone + cmake + make
12:13 Calinou it's simpler, and allows me to use the MSYS2 packages
12:14 Fixer yes
12:14 Calinou this works for other software, it ought to work for Minetest :P
12:14 Fixer minetest hates to work
12:14 IhrFussel sfan5, I see...did you agree to using it before he opened the PR?
12:15 Fixer mingw-w64-x86_64-gcc-7.2.0-1
12:15 Fixer .____.
12:15 sfan5 no, why would i need to agree to something he works on himself
12:15 IhrFussel Cause I imagine it to be extremely frustrating to edit thousands of lines of code just to be potentially rejected
12:16 sfan5 just because i dislike it doesn't have to mean it can't get merged
12:17 IhrFussel I didn't say you won't merge it...I thought he talked to the other core devs beforehand and that you basically gave him green light
12:17 sfan5 nah, however he did announce that he wanted to rewrite the networking stack before
12:18 IhrFussel And you dislike the whole idea of rewriting? Or just using ASIO?
12:19 sfan5 i prefer not adding another external library for what is essentially bind()+accept()+epoll() and send()/recv()
12:21 IhrFussel I guess the real question is if it significantly increases the performance of the network stack... and if that increase is enough to justify such a big library
12:23 IhrFussel I looked at the "projects that use ASIO" page and wasn't able to recognize any "big players"
12:25 sfan5 that's not what counts really
12:26 IhrFussel sfan5, of course not but to see that big companies use a certain library makes it somewhat more reliable...or not?
12:27 sfan5 mmm a little maybe
12:28 IhrFussel Well if we merge it we can add Minetest to that list xP
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13:27 ThomasMonroe wb Raven
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13:57 Krock The background story of how privileges multiply: https://forum.minetest.net/v​iewtopic.php?f=9&amp;t=18574
13:58 Krock oh well my bitchange mod hasn't got a much better name either :P
13:58 Calinou are there issues on GitHub about making privilege management easier?
13:58 Calinou such as granting several privileges at once to a player
13:58 Calinou defining sets of privileges to grant/revoke them all at once
13:59 Calinou (eg. "moderator", granting "ban, give, basic_privs, rollback")
13:59 rubenwardy wat
13:59 rubenwardy privilege sex?
13:59 Calinou Krock: also, I'm having issues accessing to minetest.net and its subdomains, my ISP is having issues with the provider, someone who's using the same ISP as me has the same issue
13:59 rubenwardy privilege se
13:59 rubenwardy https://github.com/emperaormicah/privilegesex
14:00 Calinou celeron55: https://hastebin.com/sawosuvite.txt
14:00 rubenwardy at least put an underscore, com'on
14:00 rubenwardy urgh, why does a paste bin require JS
14:00 sfan5 Calinou: works for me
14:00 Calinou yeah, it's just my ISP apparently, also happens in 4G (whose network is owned by the same ISP)
14:12 nerzhul asio is header only
14:13 nerzhul but yes it's another dep, and it can be added to lib/ folder if needed to prevent boost installation on most systems (as asio can use boost or c++11 depending on ASIO_STANDALONE flag)
14:13 nerzhul sfan5, asio is not only bind + accept + epoll, it's portable accross all systems, and manage the MTU properly as it seems (in TCP mode)
14:14 sfan5 you don't need to manage mtu with tcp
14:14 sfan5 also i'm aware it does more but come on, portability isn't that hard
14:16 sfan5 wait does asio depend on boost?
14:16 nerzhul exact it's not hard, also i really like the asio interface, and i think if it's added asio interfaces can be used on non networking part when needed, for example to do defered packet compression + sending for mapblocks (outside of server loop)
14:16 nerzhul not for us
14:16 nerzhul ASIO_STANDALONE flag is set in cmakelists
14:16 sfan5 ah, ok
14:16 nerzhul but it has both for old systems compat
14:16 sfan5 we don't need support for symbian tho
14:17 nerzhul if you install asio it install boost, in archlinux too :), but just for non C++11 programs
14:17 nerzhul if we embed it in lib/ it should be sufficient
14:18 nerzhul this PR is not finished yet, it's mainly a PoC, i need to add UDP part for non reliable packets (more simple part than our current part). The current TCP part is correctly working
14:18 nerzhul i'm launching a MT server on my dedicated to ensure all works properly over wan
14:20 nerzhul wow
14:20 nerzhul it loads instanly in minimal over wan, imprssive :p
14:24 nerzhul same with MT_game but there is a mapblock loading issue it seems, i should verify if it's not due to the loading speed
14:26 nerzhul sfan5, i don't know if we can retrieve rtt/jitter in this model, i hope so
14:26 Calinou hmm
14:26 Calinou why are you rewriting the protocol to TCP?
14:26 Calinou that's just calling for repeating Minecraft's mistakes
14:26 nerzhul TCP + UDP using ASIO
14:26 Calinou (which still has lag spikes in 2017!)
14:26 Calinou why not UDP + ENet?
14:27 nerzhul enet has no IPv6
14:27 Calinou forks :)
14:27 nerzhul no
14:27 Calinou the fork in Godot has full IPv6 support
14:27 nerzhul i prefer production grade library, enet is not very used
14:27 nerzhul and has cons
14:27 Calinou it is production-grade, Godot and Cube/Cube 2 games use it
14:27 Calinou and some commercial games too
14:27 Calinou also, "this is a game, not a banking application" :)
14:27 nerzhul actually i just want to see if this implementation works as intended
14:27 sfan5 Calinou: hey that's my sentence
14:28 sfan5 i don't look forward to rewriting the server list pinging code if we switch to enet
14:28 nerzhul i don't care about game vs banking apps, banking apps are generally stack of shits which just work :p
14:28 nerzhul pinging my tcp implementation should be easy, it's open/close or open/init/response/close in tcp
14:28 rubenwardy Monzo is good
14:28 rubenwardy </unpaid-shill>
14:29 Calinou pinging with ENet is definitely possible
14:29 Calinou (and getting server info)
14:29 Calinou (that's what Cube/Cube 2 does, it doesn't use HTTP for the master server)
14:30 nerzhul let me finish this PoC, if not viable i will re-study enet, but really i don't like their implementation :p
14:30 sfan5 Calinou: i wasn't saying it's not possible, i just would prefer not being forced to adjust the code in the server list
14:31 nerzhul the current rewrite permits to understand what MT really needs for an event based proper network protocol, enet is like that too, then this poc can be re-used, you just need to change interfaces
14:32 Calinou if there's no lag spikes, then I'm ok with it
14:33 Calinou but lag spikes shouldn't happen in any case, not even on intercontinental gameplay
14:33 Calinou (US <-> EU)
14:34 nerzhul i understand, world of warcraft uses TCP + UDP (mainly TCP) and there is no lag, except when servers are overheated :p
14:34 nerzhul in singleplayer mapblock loading from mtg are as fast as in UDP (mapgen performance
15:24 * Krock wonders why the locally saved map from a doesn't work
15:24 * Krock sets backend = sqlite3  after the failure of mintestmapper
15:25 Krock well yeah, there's not much to read from the disk when there's "dummy"
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17:21 shivajiva https://github.com/shivajiva101/sauth
17:27 paramat mgv7 seed 0 has a good spawn on an island with 2 nice stone arches
17:30 Shara paramat: just checked it quickly.. would be rather hard to play from. No trees anywhere :P
17:31 paramat heh yes. 3 arches actually
17:31 rdococ heh
17:31 paramat one of which looks like a big zero
17:31 rdococ "dummy"
17:32 Shara It would be nice if you started in a biome that has trees
17:32 Natechip seed 0 has lots of water :P
17:32 * Shara goes to spy at sauth instead
17:36 nerzhul i fixed my asio packet orderning issue :) i haven't followed example implementation on writing and there was data race issue betwee nasio threads and MT threads, now it works perfect :D
17:37 nerzhul if somes want to test network rewrite PR (https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/6485) go to unix-experience.fr port 30001
17:39 paramat i found a single bush on the island! .. 1 wood plank
17:39 Krock Robinson, you're rescued!
17:39 shivajiva lol hard times for a survival map
17:40 Shara Seems normal for 7
17:41 Shara I always seem to get stuck in endless snow/desert/silver sand
17:41 sfan5 am i still the only one frequently confusing silver sand and snow?
17:41 Shara The colours are very different to me
17:43 paramat "Zero Island"
17:43 Natechip sfan5: Never confuses me, pretty different colors
17:43 sfan5 :/
17:44 Natechip sfan5: you could change the texture if u need to be more dark
17:46 paramat anyway there are surrounding islands a short swim away
17:53 paramat the ripples of silver sand might be a little snowlike, but it's a little too grey for snow
17:58 Natechip paramat: I saw trees in the distance
18:00 Natechip ugh I need to reinstall gimp
18:00 Natechip :/
18:00 Natechip maybe ill try https://www.gimp.org/downloads/devel/ :D
18:16 IhrFussel Regarding the network PR: Please do NOT make a mistake where we will have to SPLIT the MT userbase yet AGAIN ... the 0.5.0 split is critical enough, so I suggest you to add whatever breaking features you want to add to 0.5.0 and maybe delay the release instead
18:17 IhrFussel Don't think about yourselves core devs, think about the server owners for once!
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18:20 paramat this network work is for the far future, maybe even 0.6.0
18:20 paramat well maybe not 'far'
18:21 IhrFussel It will be difficult enough to make the players switch to 0.5.0 sometime soon when it's readily available for several platforms
18:21 paramat this won't be for 0.5.0
18:21 IhrFussel nerzhul seemed to want to add it to 0.5.0 through...it's still 2 months
18:21 IhrFussel though*
18:22 paramat maybe i misunderstood
18:22 IhrFussel Why won't you just add everything necessary to ONE combined version instead of splitting the community every 2 years??
18:22 paramat but i doubt it would be ready and tested for 0.5.0
18:23 paramat 'obviously we never think of server owners' ;)
18:23 IhrFussel We server owners need ONE basic version with no breakages later on where we can just freely add more features onto the existing code
18:24 nerzhul IhrFussel, 0.5 already split the user base protocol is bumped to last version
18:24 nerzhul changing transport doesn't change anything
18:24 IhrFussel nerzhul, I was talking about a stupid 0.6 breakage in the future
18:24 nerzhul it depend on the contract with user base
18:25 paramat 0.4.0 was 5 years ago
18:25 nerzhul it's the problem with MT community, we have strong user base, and volatile userbase but second is the most important
18:25 IhrFussel You make servers lose players with breakages that's why I suggest break everything NOW and don't break anything later on
18:25 nerzhul paramat, yeah it was in the early MT stage
18:25 * rdococ spontaneously explodes, being volatile.
18:26 nerzhul IhrFussel, and i agree with you on that point
18:26 paramat we're moving to a new major version, it's not something that can be avoided, otherwise you'd be stuck with 0.3 and no modding
18:26 nerzhul 0.5 was done massively to cleanup & do the breakage we need, i don't think a 0.6 can happen soon as many many points in MT are now fixed, only network part is for me the remaining point
18:26 paramat no breakages == no progress
18:26 nerzhul it's why i'm working on this now
18:26 rdococ I mean, it's not like the majority of servers are going to update to 0.5.0 until it's released.
18:26 nerzhul paramat, it's wrong, breakage = fix hardcore unmaintainable part
18:27 IhrFussel I'm not against a 0.5.0 ... but I would rather want to have a delayed 0.5.0 with all breakages necessary for the future instead of having a breaking 0.6 in 1-2 years
18:27 nerzhul except network and server scripting/server loop contension we don't have anymoer difficult point
18:27 rdococ So I don't think breakages are that much of a problem.
18:27 nerzhul IhrFussel, the date is not fixed
18:27 IhrFussel 0.6.0*
18:27 nerzhul we have a 0.4.17 planned for bugfixed at a point, maybe in november, we should decide on an exact date and take 1 Month to prepare the commits to stable-0.4
18:28 paramat breakages mean players shift to other servers, MT doesn't lose them, no bad thing
18:28 nerzhul 0.5 should be released when done, if we loose a little bit time but we have an intermediate 0.4.17 it's not so important
18:28 nerzhul my ASIO PR is nearly complete i think, i need the UDP part for unreliable trafic like player movements and we will be nice
18:30 IhrFussel I was talking about the future though...IMO it is WRONG to even think about a 0.6.0 already cause that implies "oh there are some features that will break compat again sometime in thr future"
18:30 IhrFussel Why not implement them into 0.5.0 if you already plan them??
18:30 nerzhul IhrFussel, yeah, and i doesn't want to wait X years to make network rework happen :p
18:30 rubenwardy time
18:30 paramat sorry me mentioning 0.6 was a misunderstanding
18:30 rubenwardy we could delay by a few more months to properly test
18:31 paramat we don't even want to think about it
18:31 nerzhul rubenwardy, i think it's more reasonable
18:31 rubenwardy I'd be happy with the PR if it was sufficiently tested
18:31 paramat i'm happy to delay 0.5.0 as long as needed
18:32 IhrFussel Yes please just delay 0.5.0 if necessary...it will take LOTS of months for most servers to upgrade anyway cause iOS users will have a bad time
18:32 paramat i didn't realise this network stuff might be for 0.5, good news
18:32 nerzhul paramat, i didn't realize it too, but i got some time and motivation to work on it, trashing the whole network stack and rewriting it from scratch with asio lib :p
18:33 paramat even mentioning MT 0.6 gives me that 'explody head' feeling *=/
18:34 nerzhul i don't see any MT 0.6 interest if network is reworked
18:34 nerzhul another point which should be done is the CSM mod sending
18:34 nerzhul we need it for 0.5
18:34 nerzhul and some CSM pr should be reviewed and merge
18:34 nerzhul or adopted
18:34 rubenwardy CSM mod sending is fine for a 5.1 imo
18:35 nerzhul rubenwardy, there is not breakage for a such thing yes, but it's a soft breakage
18:35 nerzhul if a server wants to use CSM mod sending and 0.5.0 client connects it's a problem :)
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18:35 nerzhul https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/6072 https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/6067 & https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/5797
18:35 nerzhul they need to be adopted and merged
18:35 paramat yeah server provided CSM is the more important part of CSM i feel
18:36 nerzhul i don't have the specs in my head, but i think we can use archives and some validation methods client side on the archive files for example
18:36 nerzhul i added my server informations on #6485 PR for testers
18:37 Megaf Welcome back myself!
18:40 IhrFussel rubenwardy, paramat nerzhul: I'm not trying to call you out on the "poor" work you've done to the engine/project ... you are doing it great, really. It's just not very motivating for a server owner to hear "hey by the way in X years you will lose some players for new features again"
18:42 IhrFussel To build a playerbase on a server takes hard work ... and these breakages just destroy and sh** all over that work
18:43 rubenwardy well, thanks for your feedback
18:45 Megaf joined #minetest-hub
18:46 Megaf :D
18:46 Megaf MATE Desktop
18:58 Darcidride joined #minetest-hub
18:58 RoaryTiger Shara, \o/
18:58 paramat so don't worry Ihr, it was a misunderstanding
18:59 Fixer https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZ6ZzJeWgpY
19:07 IhrFussel paramat, I know and I wouldn't criticize all those breakages as much if we could reliably say "players will always use the newest version" ... that is not the case cause (80?)% of mobile users use a 3rd-party-app which isn't up-to-date or have an iDevice
19:07 Krock Fixer, "If the playback doesn't start soon, then we recommend to restart your device." oh great, youtube
19:12 Fixer https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxKOCmW-EiI this also damn good, blew my mind, made with open source
19:15 IhrFussel I log the protocol version for each joining player and 27,622(!) use version 27
19:16 tenplus1 joined #minetest-hub
19:16 tenplus1 hi folks
19:16 Krock hi tenplus1
19:16 tenplus1 o/ krock :)
19:18 IhrFussel Only 8K players who joined have 0.4.16 (prot vers 32)
19:18 tenplus1 hi fussel
19:18 IhrFussel Hey tenplus1
19:18 Krock IhrFussel, duh.. 0.4.13
19:19 Krock horribly outdated
19:19 Krock and 0 players with proto version >= 35
19:19 Krock * >= 36
19:19 tenplus1 I wonder why anyone would still use 0.4.13
19:19 IhrFussel 1K have version 26, 200 25, 300 24
19:19 Krock outdated mobile clients
19:20 sfan5 tenplus1: because it comes with their distro by default
19:20 tenplus1 gawd... also hi
19:20 Krock they bundle Minetest into linux distributions? Didn't know that
19:20 sfan5 well in the repos
19:21 sfan5 but there's actually one distro that bundles mt or something like that
19:21 IhrFussel 6 joined with version 31 so dev =P
19:22 IhrFussel Ubuntu 16.04 STILL ships 0.4.13 I think
19:23 tenplus1 another reason once minetest hits a state of stable'ness it NEEDS a loader to always update it
19:25 IhrFussel tenplus1, you mean a launcher? Like other MMOs?
19:25 rubenwardy tenplus1, that's only possible for Windows
19:25 rubenwardy linux distros won't allow it
19:25 rubenwardy same for Android
19:25 tenplus1 really ? damn
19:25 rubenwardy well, Android has auto updating
19:25 sfan5 rubenwardy: adding an update notice would be nice tho
19:25 sfan5 but i heard debian patches those out
19:26 tenplus1 I'd wanna know if I was running an older version at least...
19:26 rubenwardy https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2442
19:26 tenplus1 prolly why so many players are using 0.4.13 and .14
19:26 IhrFussel A simple info window after starting the game would be enough I think
19:26 sfan5 rubenwardy: why did you close that
19:26 sofar can I patch my server to (1) reject 0.4.13 clients on my 0.4.16 server, and (2) send notices to 0.4.15 clients?
19:26 sfan5 sofar: yes
19:27 Krock strict_protocol_checking = true
19:27 Krock or similar
19:27 sofar I don't want to do strict version checking?
19:27 sofar that just breaks all of them, afaics
19:27 sfan5 (1) raise min proto version (2) add custom denying code for certain proto versions
19:27 tenplus1 does it inform player WHY they cannot connect when using strict protocol checking ?
19:27 sofar ok, I figured as much
19:27 rubenwardy yes, tenplus1
19:27 sofar it does
19:27 Krock isn't that doable by mods? I believe we had a PR to get the protocol version once
19:28 tenplus1 so when 0.5.0 is release I can enable that and it'll let playersknow why they cannot join (gotta update)
19:28 IhrFussel Is the protocol version check even available in on_prejoinplayer()?
19:28 paramat IhrFussel the fact that the 0.5 breakage will clear out some mobile players using nasty apps is a good thing and why server owners should switch to 0.5.0 quickly, we intend to use it to encourage them to switch to the official app
19:28 sfan5 Krock: wasn't that only available in debug mode?
19:28 sfan5 paramat: the official app sux
19:28 Krock tenplus1, they won't be even be able to connect even if you allow that
19:29 Krock sfan5, until someone changed that https://github.com/minetest/minetes​t/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt#L2342
19:29 sfan5 some PR made it available in non-debug then
19:30 IhrFussel The official app needs some work before players will choose it to play
19:30 paramat sfan i know, i'm trying to find people to work on it, but unofficial apps suk in different ways
19:30 tenplus1 what's the diff between official android mt and clones ????
19:30 tenplus1 never actually used it
19:30 Krock the advertisements and cost
19:30 IhrFussel Mainly the virtual joystick most 3rd-party-clones offer for movement
19:31 tenplus1 and cant you add that ?
19:31 ThomasMonroe joined #minetest-hub
19:31 tenplus1 hi thomas
19:31 paramat i'm trying to find someone who will add the joystick
19:31 sofar we could but nobody is willing to do the work
19:31 IhrFussel The creator of Multicraft has been contacted I think
19:31 Shara tenplus1: sfan5 previously told us a dev could do it in their sleep, but since he doesn't want to, we're stuck
19:32 tenplus1 hi shara
19:32 Shara hi tenplus1. How's it going?
19:32 sfan5 you're taking that statement way too seriously
19:32 tenplus1 if controls on the official app are lacking and the virtual joystick helps  improve this then priority goes to controls
19:32 Shara Actually, I'm just amused
19:32 tenplus1 tired but ok... looooong day
19:32 paramat i would do it if i had an android device. understandably most devs are uninterested, so i'm asking contributors
19:32 sfan5 i don't like working with android mt simply because the buildsystem is such a nightmare
19:33 rubenwardy i'm not sure how it even got merged
19:34 sfan5 "anything is better than nothing"
19:34 paramat obtw no reply from monte48 yet on the issue
19:34 paramat *btw
19:34 Shara okay, thanks for trying paramat
19:35 paramat oh just got a forum PM from lordfingle
19:36 paramat says he can work on adding joystick in jan/feb2018 :)
19:36 rubenwardy once we get the controls fixed, it may we worth getting a Minetest organisation on the play store. I'll help with pointing players torwards it
19:37 rubenwardy I'm willing to pay for  that
19:37 rubenwardy *it'll
19:38 paramat the 0.5 breakage is an ideal time to move players to the official app, so it's high priority
19:39 paramat lordfingle says he *might* be able to do something earlier than year end
19:40 sofar I'm willing to setup an LLC for steam+android
19:40 rubenwardy there's no need
19:40 rubenwardy and a not for profit would be better
19:40 sofar it's a really smart move to do though
19:41 sofar non-for profit would be much more complex
19:42 Calinou why a LLC? you want to sell builds?
19:42 Calinou I'm meh about this, Minetest isn't polished enough to sell it
19:42 Calinou this isn't even SuperTuxKart-level polish (!)
19:42 sofar no, it would be free
19:42 sfan5 ^ agree
19:42 Calinou ah
19:42 sofar it would just shield for liability
19:43 sofar a 503 requires more paperwork
19:43 Natechip what rlly needs work is compiling for windows
19:43 sofar we could sell a support package as an addon and pay things like hosting/dev costs
19:43 Natechip what rlly needs work is compiling for windows
19:44 sfan5 Natechip: buildbot works for me™
19:44 sofar travis/ci github doesn't work?
19:44 Natechip sfan5: which ones that
19:44 sfan5 https://github.com/minetest/min​etest/tree/master/util/buildbot
19:45 Natechip oh, nice
19:45 Natechip I just run the script sfan5?
19:46 sfan5 dunno
19:46 Natechip "<sfan5> Natechip: buildbot works for me™"
19:46 Natechip so im guessing you do
19:46 sfan5 you can look at how travis invokes it to find out what you need to do
19:47 Natechip 0kay
19:47 Natechip okay*
19:47 Natechip meh, where do I find that
19:48 * tenplus1 pokes travis with a brick
19:48 rubenwardy also, I think I should be the leader of any company or not for profit
19:49 rubenwardy simply due to this: https://i.rubenwardy.com/pkJ3bLetLh.png
19:49 sfan5 >reading that page
19:50 Natechip I like that pages minecraft dirt background, makes a great touch
19:50 paramat hehe
19:50 tenplus1 lol
19:50 Natechip :P
19:51 Shara :D
19:51 Krock rubenwardy, well yeah. non-profit organisation. Is greenpeace an option?
19:51 ThomasMonroe joined #minetest-hub
19:57 Natechip random silence...
19:59 tenplus1 *buurp*
20:00 behalebabo joined #minetest-hub
20:00 rubenwardy lol, only 13% want to keep the modding questions mega topic
20:00 rubenwardy https://forum.minetest.net/vi​ewtopic.php?f=47&amp;t=18569
20:00 * Natechip spams the poll YES button
20:00 rubenwardy I mean, of 8 votes
20:01 Natechip rubenwardy: I rlly need to get rid of this New Member tag LOl
20:01 rubenwardy you need to post 8 times, iirc
20:01 rubenwardy but don't spam please :)
20:01 paramat 8, well, that's democracy
20:01 Natechip I was joking about "Natechip spams the poll YES button" thing
20:02 * rdococ eats some spam
20:02 rubenwardy spam to get 8 posts, sorry
20:03 Natechip ohh
20:03 Natechip nah I wont
20:06 rdococ don't to get 8 posts ;)
20:06 IhrFussel monte48 said something about 0.5.0-dev broke the Android Minetest ... do we have the same problem currently? I mean is there a working 0.5.0-dev Android build?
20:07 Natechip sfan5: by compiling windows I meant 0.4-stable
20:07 Natechip not 0.4.16
20:10 behalebabo joined #minetest-hub
20:13 Fixer rubenwardy: thats like 9 votes, in statistics, that can have huuuge error
20:14 Calinou rubenwardy: imagine if the entire Internet was participating in a single forum topic
20:14 Calinou what could possibly go wrong? :D
20:14 rubenwardy I've complained about this multiple times
20:14 rubenwardy it's so stupid
20:15 Fixer sfan5: minetest needs AppImage /pokes Calinou
20:15 Fixer official one
20:15 Fixer official
20:16 ThomasMonroe joined #minetest-hub
20:17 Fixer HEY LITTLE DRUM
20:17 Fixer reading logs
20:18 IhrFussel "Display topics from previous X" should be "Display topics with posts from previous X" ... is there really no way to just display topics that were created recently?
20:18 Fixer really, will someone think of the linux children and provide AppImage for new releases?
20:19 Fixer https://packages.debian.org​/stretch-backports/minetest Not Bad
20:20 Fixer really glad debian has more backports than previously
20:21 Fixer sofar: or donation button? some OSS project already went to steam, they have totally free download from their site and paid one on steam to support the dev (more or less)
20:22 Calinou Fixer: GitLab CI could easily be set to build AppImages
20:22 Calinou Fixer: people don't use donate buttons, although they do use Patreon
20:22 Calinou (it's a far more sensible idea, anyway)
20:22 rdococ One day the world will be entirely automated. And hopefully open-source ;)
20:22 tenplus1 lolol
20:23 Fixer yeah, or Patreon, or both
20:24 Fixer nerzhul: have you tried to automate AppImage building for your pipelines?
20:24 rubenwardy ;)  https://www.patreon.com/paramat/posts
20:25 rdococ Ugh, my internet just completely flatlined.
20:25 rdococ Again.
20:26 Fixer https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jB0vBmiTr6o
20:27 ThomasMonroe joined #minetest-hub
20:27 tenplus1 nite folks o/
20:27 tenplus1 left #minetest-hub
20:32 nerzhul Fixer, no
20:35 nerzhul sfan5, the android build system in our project yes, i have started to have NDK parts in one of my android app gradle can use cmake it can be nice :p but our dependencies is the problem in fact
20:35 nerzhul sofar, i already publish official app on android, no need to duplicate work
20:36 Fixer huge win https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ie4u2i_5OdE
20:37 sofar nerzhul: yes, but, nobody knows who "Loic Blot" is and whether he is the official MT distributor
20:37 sofar besides, that's not the point
20:37 rubenwardy we don't need an LLC to have an official org
20:37 rubenwardy it is not good that it is under someone's personal profile
20:37 sofar no, we can do a 503c, or a foundation er
20:37 sofar it just has to be some legal entity
20:38 sofar and LLC is really simple
20:38 sofar 503 harder, foundation hardest
20:38 rubenwardy for a free app you're not selling anything, so you don't need a legal entity at all
20:38 rubenwardy I'm not sure why you're bring this up
20:39 nerzhul sofar, strangely it's on my GH profile
20:39 sofar steam still requires a 100$ deposit
20:39 nerzhul play store too
20:39 nerzhul and i already did it :p
20:39 sofar some people may want to donate in a way
20:39 Calinou creating a LLC for a non-commercial project feels strange
20:39 sofar afk kid disaster
20:39 Calinou this is what Urban Terror did (Frozen Sand) but it sounds shady :P
20:42 Fixer hhaha
20:42 Fixer Urban Terror is not open source though
20:43 IhrFussel Well I gotta say the dev name right now is too long in the playstore...if a player asks me "which app should I download" I have to say "The one by Open Source Softwares by Ner'zhul"
20:44 Fixer why they even ask in the first place
20:44 IhrFussel Cause sometimes there are sevaral apps named "Minetest"
20:44 IhrFussel several*
20:44 rubenwardy there aren't at the moment
20:44 rubenwardy there were
20:45 IhrFussel Let's be honest ^ that dev name doesn't sound very trustworthy
20:45 rubenwardy that's my main issue
20:45 rubenwardy if someone tells them to download the official app, it's a strange dev name
20:45 Calinou nobody trusts Frenchmen :(
20:46 Fixer Calinou: :D
20:46 IhrFussel I generally "trust" apps more if the dev seems to be a company
20:46 Calinou buying code signing certificates for Windows would be nice, too
20:46 Calinou but that costs even more
20:46 Calinou and the "open source" certificates (much cheaper than the usual ones) have to use an individual's name, not an organization name
20:46 Fixer Calinou: minetest is rare on windows
20:47 IhrFussel *is reading app review comments* "just stupid, you can only walk around and not build anything"
20:48 nerzhul minetest is rare everywhere, but less than other open source games
20:48 Fixer IhrFussel: /gamemode 0
20:48 IhrFussel They probably joined a non-interact server
20:48 nerzhul LLC is not useful, we need cool features and more performance :D
20:48 rubenwardy that's another issue, we need to actually respond to reviews
20:48 nerzhul the PR count decrease, but since 1 week it's stable
20:49 IhrFussel YES and please don't use a bot for that like "Thank you for your review, we will continue to improve the software"
20:50 rubenwardy I respond to every one of my reviews, and I see an average increase in rating https://play.google.com/store/apps/detai​ls?id=com.rubenwardy.minetestmodmanager
20:50 nerzhul we don't have that, or do you mean somebody lies and doesn't tell me paramat is a bot ? :p
20:50 nerzhul rubenwardy, yeah, i do it on my apps, but not MT, what do you want to asnwer to: "this app is shit it's not minecraft" ?
20:50 rubenwardy well, you ignore those
20:51 nerzhul i can give your rights to answer
20:51 rubenwardy but for the "I can't build" ones you at least ask for more inforamtion
20:51 IhrFussel WTH? "You can't craft or build anything. Even my younger brother would've made a better game"
20:51 nerzhul if it's on the play store app it's not lgtm
20:51 rubenwardy it's liekly, they're on a server
20:51 nerzhul 7.3k installations not bad
20:52 nerzhul rubenwardy, send me a mail i invite you on play store
20:52 IhrFussel 2.8K ratings -> 3.6 / 5.0
20:53 nerzhul strangely android installations are 1: brasil (1.1k) 2: russia (732)
20:53 nerzhul US (585), argentina (442) and germany (313)
20:54 nerzhul and many crashed :(
20:54 paramat hehe
20:54 rubenwardy for me it's   US (179), Germany (79), France (59)
20:56 Calinou Brazil has a longstanding culture of disliking paid software in general
20:56 Calinou like Russia :P
20:57 IhrFussel Many seem to not understand that you have to TAP the screen to build/dig
20:58 IhrFussel We should probably add an info for that
21:04 rubenwardy one problem: I don't speak german
21:10 IhrFussel rubenwardy, most Germans understand basic English... we start to learn English in the 3rd grade
21:11 IhrFussel So at the age of 8-9
21:12 IhrFussel Just the elder people didn't learn English at school...they had to learn Russian instead
21:13 IhrFussel I mean the < 1990 generations
21:15 IhrFussel Lua stack question: Is a race condition possible if one mod opens a file on globalstep and another opens the same file in on_player_hpchange()?
21:15 sfan5 all lua use is single threaded
21:16 IhrFussel So the same file can never be opened by more than one mod at the same time?
21:16 IhrFussel Or callback*
21:16 sfan5 wtf no
21:20 sofar rubenwardy: what does "needs basename" even mean?
21:20 sofar rubenwardy: https://minetest-mods.rube​nwardy.com/status/?a=sofar
21:24 Krock [modname]  missing in the topic title
21:24 sofar it's there
21:24 sofar the forum is NOT an API for crying out loud
21:27 sofar Krock: compare:
21:27 sofar https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=12005
21:27 sofar to
21:28 sofar https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=11795
21:28 sofar is the capital W really the problem?
21:29 Krock no, the database is outdated. Sorry
21:29 sofar that page has been like that for a year+
21:29 sofar lol
21:29 sofar no excuses
21:30 Calinou rubenwardy: I've been learning German since a few weeks ago :P
21:30 Calinou sooner or later, I'll know French, English, Spanish and German
21:30 Calinou (to varying degrees, of course)
21:38 Megaf joined #minetest-hub
21:44 rubenwardy sofar, there's no better source for completion currently
21:44 rubenwardy RE: the forum is not an API
21:45 rubenwardy did you change something? Unless you bump the post, Krock's crawler doesn't see it AFAIk
21:46 Fixer "Even my younger brother would've made a better game"
21:47 Fixer bestest
21:47 rubenwardy plot twist: their younger brother is a game developer
21:47 Krock rubenwardy, doesn't matter anymore. The crawler went through the whole section
21:48 rubenwardy nice
21:48 rubenwardy I should update then
21:48 Krock good plot twist :)
21:48 * rdococ twists hard
21:53 sofar wait, I gotta bump my forum threads for this to work?
21:53 rubenwardy no, sofar
21:53 sofar can't it periodically refetch threads and refresh?
21:53 rubenwardy Krock made it do that
21:53 sofar well I just ... changed something. I don't even know if it's correct or not
21:54 rubenwardy updated the site, a few of those in red disappeared
21:54 sofar looks like Warps is now green
21:54 sofar emote/lightning isn't
21:55 rubenwardy http://krock-works.16mb.com/MTstuff/modS​earch.php?st=0&amp;at=0&amp;q=lightning
21:55 sofar no idea what else to change
21:55 rubenwardy I get the title information from there, and it's just lightning
21:56 rubenwardy same for emotes
21:56 sofar but
21:56 sofar how is that different from warps, or crops?
21:56 rubenwardy I don't know
21:56 rubenwardy something weird with Krock's parser
21:56 rubenwardy warps and crops both have mod names in his search
21:56 rubenwardy but not emote and lightning
21:57 rdococ gah
21:57 rdococ I pressed the button I shouldn't have done
21:57 sofar afk some more
21:58 rdococ Krock, why ;-;
22:07 Fixer joined #minetest-hub
22:29 rubenwardy ooh, sub game idea - settling the new world
22:30 Fixer huh?
22:30 Fixer rubenwardy: you are settling it in mtg anyway
22:30 Fixer it is just that sam has no hunger and enemies and such
22:31 Fixer or hanger
22:31 rubenwardy you arrive in a strange new continent with nothing except your family and the few processions in your backpack
22:32 rubenwardy wouldn't work so well on servers
22:44 IhrFussel My server has a level system and now players who die lose EXP ... I got that concept from a MMO =P
23:04 Megaf 2017-10-01 18:54:54: ERROR[Server]: /home/minetest/Minetest_Source/src/server.cpp:73: virtual void* Server
23:04 Megaf : Failed to save block: database or disk is full
23:04 Megaf no good
23:07 Fixer nice
23:07 Fixer good job
23:10 * Fixer in 90s - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJ01EDhL0VM

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