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IRC log for #minetest-dev, 2017-02-10

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Time Nick Message
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04:13 Zeno` what happened to leaves?
04:13 Zeno` they look... weird
04:18 VanessaE where the fuck even ARE the trees? :)
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04:20 VanessaE ah, finally found some
04:21 VanessaE leaves seem okay to me
04:25 Zeno` find a whole bunch of them together
04:25 Zeno` they have thin lines between them
04:25 VanessaE I just did.
04:25 * VanessaE looks again
04:25 Zeno` vertical lines
04:25 Zeno` maybe it's moretrees or something. Hmm
04:26 VanessaE well, I see extra surfaces between leaves nodes but I don't remember if that's always been the case.
04:26 VanessaE but no "lines"
04:27 Zeno` perhaps mod issue
04:27 Zeno` http://imgur.com/a/6WUK7
04:27 * VanessaE checks a world with moretrees
04:27 VanessaE wait
04:27 VanessaE look closely
04:27 VanessaE those are plantlike leaves
04:27 Zeno` hmm yeah
04:28 VanessaE that's a mod issue, the scale of the leaves isn't set right.
04:28 Zeno` hmm
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04:28 Zeno` I see!
04:28 VanessaE this might be the thing paramat did
04:28 VanessaE with the squared plantlike scale
04:28 Zeno` It wasn't like this a few weeks ago
04:28 Zeno` oh that thing
04:28 Zeno` right
04:28 Zeno` perhaps after squaring should ceil()?
04:28 Zeno` hmmm
04:28 VanessaE idk
04:28 * Zeno` looks
04:29 Zeno` the question is. Should this be fixed in engine or the mods?
04:29 VanessaE paramat would insist the mods
04:29 VanessaE (I'm not sure I disagree, but I don't agree with the change having been made int he first place)
04:30 Zeno` looking at the code first
04:33 Zeno` paramat: Should that fix be reverted?
04:34 Zeno` hmm
04:35 Zeno` is that function large enough? lol
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05:15 sofar REALLY, NOW YOU"RE COMPLAINING ABOUT PLANTLIKE NOT FILLING THE NODE?
05:15 sofar lol
05:15 sofar I've spent a month making the case that it should
05:15 sofar lmao
05:17 VanessaE lol
05:18 sofar but yeah, that's the problem with plantlike, you can't win
05:19 sofar need to make it 23x16 pixels to get pixels in a consistent size, too
05:19 sofar sqrt(2)*16
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06:07 Zeno` I missed it
06:07 Zeno` let's fix!
06:10 VanessaE wait!  NO!  not THAT button!
06:11 VanessaE everyone take cover!
06:11 Zeno` it's the green button!
06:11 Zeno` perfectly safe? See? No ha *** LOST CARRIER ***
06:36 Zeno` I think that... those two commits need to be reverted
06:37 Zeno` because "fixing" requires both server update and client update
06:37 Zeno` I don't like it at all
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06:42 Zeno` maybe they can be put back later after some more thought
06:46 nerzhul hi Zeno`
06:47 Zeno` hi
06:51 Zeno` this: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commi​t/cdc538e0a242167cd7031d40670d2d4464b87f2c   and this:  https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commi​t/953cbb3b15997a0e7c7c32af2365cb5046a9e476
06:59 nerzhul merged #5198
06:59 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5198 -- Correct docs related to meta by rubenwardy
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07:19 nerzhul merging #5196
07:19 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5196 -- Add textures for air and ignore items by Wuzzy2
07:59 celeron55 ShadowNinja: i meant distributing it for use with other multiplayer games that need a server like that
07:59 celeron55 ShadowNinja: i don't really care; just wondered if anyone had even thought of the possibility
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10:06 Zeno` paramat: unless you can come up with a very good reason why those above two commits should be reverted I think we should revert them and attempt again after more thought is given to them
10:06 Zeno` these ones: Zeno`> this: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commi​t/cdc538e0a242167cd7031d40670d2d4464b87f2c   and this:  https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commi​t/953cbb3b15997a0e7c7c32af2365cb5046a9e476
10:07 Zeno` I understood and understand what you were trying to do but they're causing major problems
10:12 Zeno` not to mention the ugliness of trees with plantlike leaves
10:27 Zeno` unless a fix can be written with the next two hours I think the responsible thing for me to do is revert those commits
10:27 Zeno` ok?
10:34 nrzkt Zeno`: agree
10:39 Zeno` summary: old client, new server (BROKEN);  new client, old server (BROKEN);  new client new server (BROKEN);  old client, older server (OK)
10:39 Zeno` that can't be good :/
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12:14 Zeno` ok, based on the points I listed above and with the support of another dev I am reverting those two commits mentioned
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12:24 Zeno` done
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13:01 kilbith can a dev considers deleting these kind of silly comments on sight, please ? https://github.com/minetest/minetes​t/pull/5186#issuecomment-278246765
13:01 kilbith it just looks unprofessional in the hardcore dev discussions and that user (tobyplowy) is used to it for too long
13:12 ninnghazad so that pr i made back in 2014 is still open (https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1737) just rebased it again. anything i can do to actually get this merged? or should i forget it as it's never gonna happen?
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13:19 nore ninnghazad: just commented it
13:20 ninnghazad woah, thx! i'll fix the issues you noted.
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13:38 paramat hmmm ..
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13:44 paramat Zeno` :) you did review and support the visual scale change, sofar supported too. rubenwardy, sfan5 and nore supported the 2nd commit and didn't ask for reversion, so the support is larger than the dissapproval. a post was made in the forum informing that modders need to update their visual scale, once that is done all cases work
13:44 paramat (disapproval)
13:45 paramat so this reversion was done too fast without looking at the dev support
13:45 paramat nrzkt
13:45 paramat but lets get new opinions from all devs involved
13:45 paramat re-assess
13:47 paramat https://forum.minetest.net/vi​ewtopic.php?f=18&t=16525 post added 2 weeks ago, many mods will be updated now
13:47 sfan5 kilbith: i agree that most of tobyplowy's issue comments are pretty unproductive
13:47 paramat i think it would have been best to at least wait until i woke up and we discussed
13:49 paramat nore sofar what's your opinion now on visual scale?
13:50 paramat if you read the issues and PR there is no less painful way to fix this
13:50 nore paramat: I must say I don't know, depends on how many mods have been updated and how much still need to be I'd say
13:51 paramat i think how many mods have updated is not that important, we just need to decide what is best
13:52 paramat anyway, let's re-assess
13:53 paramat this reversion was too impulsive
13:54 paramat note that visual scale acted differently between torchlike, signlike (correct) and plantlike (squared) so it was a nasty inconsistency
13:55 paramat and as explained it takes more time to tune it by trial-and-error to get the scale you desire than to update the value in a mod, so it will save modders hassle overall
13:56 paramat due to support for it and hasty reversion i suggest we revert-revert :)
13:57 sfan5 paramat: is the assesment correct that the commits were had broken backwards compat and were broken in master?
13:57 sfan5 <Zeno`> unless a fix can be written with the next two hours I think the responsible thing for me to do is revert those commits
13:57 sfan5 also i disagree with that
13:58 sfan5 master is the dev branch, it's allowed to be broken
13:58 sfan5 (broken as in minor features work [or don't] in unexpected ways)
14:00 paramat the 2nd commit ensures backwards compatibility
14:00 paramat as long as visual scale is updated in mods
14:00 paramat so yes there is some disruption, mods need to be updated
14:01 paramat but is unavoidable to sort out the mess
14:01 sfan5 seems good to me
14:01 paramat best to read the issue and both PRs
14:02 paramat anyway i'll make a new PR for re-review
14:02 sfan5 what about " old client, new server (BROKEN); " though, shouldn't that be working?
14:03 paramat afaik that will work as long as the mod has been updated, and moretrees wasn't
14:04 sfan5 then there is zero reason to revert the commits?
14:04 paramat well i understand the controversy about having to update the value in mods
14:05 paramat but zeno supported the PR and it was merged 2 weeks ago
14:05 nore sfan5: I think it also depends on whether the client is old enough or not, since IIRC this commit did not introduce a protocol bump
14:05 sfan5 not introducing a protobump is okay in certain circumstances
14:06 paramat i chose the nearest protocol bump, which was very close, see rubenwardy's comment
14:06 paramat https://github.com/minetest/minetes​t/pull/5115#issuecomment-275887403
14:07 paramat the 2nd PR did exactly what rubenwardy asked
14:08 paramat the old code made new types of plantlike very difficult to code, as i experienced, this will overall save more hassle for modders and devs than cause pain
14:08 paramat (new types plantlike meshoptions)
14:11 paramat issue #5069 PR 1 #5115 PR 2 #5138
14:11 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5069 -- Double application of 'visual scale' to plantlike, suggested solutions
14:11 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5115 -- Plantlike: Fix visual_scale being applied squared by paramat
14:11 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5138 -- Plantlike visual scale: Send sqrt(visual_scale) to old clients by paramat
14:12 paramat in the old code the value was squared, so if a modder wants a perticular scale they don't get it, and have to use trial-and-error to get the size they want, this has caused me 5 mins of hassle as a modder at least once
14:13 paramat seems less hassle to update the value in a mod
14:16 paramat VanessaE perhaps you could update your mods? especially moretrees
14:18 Zeno` sfan5, the change was much much to difficult to fix for a point release
14:18 sfan5 why
14:19 Zeno` because of the number of mods it breaks
14:19 paramat oh and tobyplowy is a pain in comments, c1ffisme is too but is not quite so bad
14:19 Zeno` and no workaround
14:19 paramat i have warned them many times but will be stricter
14:20 Zeno` paramat, I thought you said you wanted to maintain "kwoleker's sense of quality"
14:21 paramat sometimes a small amount of disruption is necessary to clean things up for good
14:21 paramat this has been broken since 2011
14:21 Zeno` anyway, add them back if that's the consensus but too many mods are broken
14:21 kilbith paramat, I wish someone had the balls to delete their comments ruthlessly
14:21 Zeno` paramat, yeah 6 years ago!
14:21 paramat zeno you supported the PR and merged it :)
14:21 Zeno` it's been there for 6 years with no complaints
14:22 Zeno` I know I did
14:22 paramat well see the issue, the bug has been fixed and broken many times over, but badly
14:23 paramat my PRs were the first to understand the actual problem and do the correct fix
14:24 paramat the old code will continue to cause grief for devs and modders if not fixed
14:28 paramat the issue here is Vanessa not updating moretrees
14:42 VanessaE huh?
14:42 * VanessaE scrolls back
14:44 VanessaE oh the plantlike stuff
14:44 VanessaE it's in the minetest-mods group so anyone with access could have "fixed" it.
14:45 paramat ahh, i could
14:45 VanessaE https://github.com/minetest-mods/mor​etrees/blob/master/node_defs.lua#L34
14:45 VanessaE probably there, as well a lines 43 and 57
14:46 paramat i'd rather you did though
14:47 VanessaE I'llg et it.
14:47 VanessaE I'll get it.
14:47 paramat oh cool thanks
14:48 paramat so i think we need to revert the revert if that's possible
14:48 paramat before we break mods again
14:49 VanessaE done.
14:49 kilbith better doing `git reset --hard f5d4494`
14:49 VanessaE afaik that one's the only one of mine that uses visual_scale for anything important.
14:50 paramat maybe i'll just make a new PR
14:50 VanessaE kilbith's right
14:50 VanessaE just reset --hard and force-push
14:50 paramat ahhh
14:50 VanessaE (yes I know it violates the 10min rule but I highly doubt anyone's built on top of this yet)
14:51 paramat oh well, i better not then, it's been too long
14:51 VanessaE fuck it
14:51 paramat lol
14:51 VanessaE Zeno` can save some face.
14:51 kilbith a revert of a revert looks kinda silly if you ask me
14:51 VanessaE agreed
14:51 paramat i'll make a new PR
14:52 VanessaE it's like that monty python routine about everyone being sacked, and then the ones who sacked those guyes got sacked, and so on up the like for a few more iterations
14:53 paramat and i'll merge it in 1-2 hrs unless objections
14:54 VanessaE bah, just reset and push now
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15:09 celeron55 just revert a revert, it'll look fun
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15:13 Fixer Yo Dawg...
15:13 VanessaE someone put him...on exhibit. :P
15:15 paramat hehe
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16:02 paramat back soon need to pop out
16:13 * red-002 waits for a revert of a revert-revert
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16:45 rdococ revert^4
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16:57 paramat working on it ..
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17:23 paramat #5205 will merge soon
17:23 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5205 -- Plantlike: Fix visual_scale being applied squared by paramat
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17:25 paramat waiting for checks
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17:49 paramat guess i'll merge #4966 too
17:49 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4966 -- Use tree to list mods rather than textlist by rubenwardy
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17:51 paramat checks are slow for OSX, can't wait, will merge those 2 in a moment
18:03 paramat now merging
18:08 paramat done
18:18 ShadowNinja celeron55: Oh, I suppose you could use the master server with a different game pretty easily, you just have to get the server to send a JSON payload to the server periodically and there are a few MT-specific fields to replace.  In fact, with the HTTP API now available the master server reporting could probably be implemented as a Lua mod.
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18:50 STHGOM the drop bones_mode seems to make armor disappear, can anyone confirm? maybe my armor version is old
18:51 STHGOM darnit, there are too many minetest channels
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21:12 rubenwardy the new Github header doesn't look right
21:12 rubenwardy too much contrast
21:13 paramat sfan5 sofar updated #5199 and now preserves landing sound
21:13 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5199 -- Footsteps: Fix offset footstep and shallow water sound bugs by paramat
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21:32 paramat can anyone else review #4682 ? it's been waiting a long time and this leads to fixing lighting bugs
21:32 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4682 -- Fix water flooding onto lava by juhdanad
21:35 nerzhul rubuyest it's a little bit ugly
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21:42 nerzhul rubenwardy, *
21:46 paramat he's the rubyest, he's the ruby warden
21:47 rubenwardy I'm trying to work out how that typo was even done, but I can't
21:48 rubenwardy I'm not familiar with that part of the code, so I won't be very useful at spotting errors
21:49 rubenwardy :/
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22:15 celeron55 i think google used that kind of high contrast header some years back
22:15 celeron55 it's weird
22:15 rubenwardy that didn't look so bar though
22:15 rubenwardy *bad
22:15 celeron55 it wasn't so tall
22:20 Zeno` hmm. *shrug*
22:21 Zeno` The visual scale should be sqrt(2)*blah at least because the plantlike leaves are at a 45 degree angle
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22:31 rubenwardy updated #5176
22:31 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5176 -- Use JSON serialize to store ItemStack Metadata by rubenwardy
22:31 rubenwardy ShadowNinja, sfan5, nerzhul
22:32 rubenwardy adds a rather lazy unit test, really could use more cases
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23:36 rubenwardy merging game#1549 in 20 minutes...
23:36 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest​/minetest_game/issues/1549 -- Add sfinv.set_page, plus other helper functions by rubenwardy
23:56 rubenwardy merging...
23:57 rubenwardy done

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