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IRC log for #minetest-dev, 2017-02-09

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:05 diemartin yay no more guests
00:05 VanessaE and the world is once again at peace. :)
00:06 rubenwardy hate to burst your bubble(s)
00:06 rubenwardy but all the Android clones we have will probably keep it
00:07 diemartin better than nothing
00:07 VanessaE um, wut?  "VanessaE, be patient!"
00:08 diemartin no_guests will take care of the rest
00:13 paramat now merging
00:14 VanessaE paramat: care to explain ^^^
00:14 paramat oh that :]
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00:23 paramat merged. closed a 3 year old issue and a performance optimisation, nice
00:23 VanessaE cool
00:23 VanessaE now merge #5186 :)
00:23 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5186 -- Soft node overlay by juhdanad
00:23 VanessaE (NOW you can take a pot shot :P )
00:25 paramat Vanessa no big issue, a few days after i started the mese post light PR you were being impatient on IRC that i hadn't completed it yet, so i wrote that
00:25 VanessaE :P
00:25 paramat no problem though
00:30 paramat wow it got merged, thanks
00:31 VanessaE ?
00:36 sofar I just merged a few minor things
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06:40 Sokomine er. did mod security get restricted even more?
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06:50 Sokomine security is important. i want to be able to enable mod security and use it. but if normal operations like reading and writing a file with config values for a mod no longer works, mod security seems kind of obsolete - because it cannot be used in a productive way. i'm certainly missing something here. please tell me how to use it properly or where i can find up-to-date information on how it can be us
06:51 Sokomine ed (apart from disabling entirely)
06:53 nerzhul Sokomine, you nolonger need reading or writing files, now you have mod metadata for that
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06:53 nerzhul call your metadata container at mod load and use it to read/store what you need
06:55 Sokomine ah. mod metadata sounds like a good idea
06:55 Sokomine can you point me to a summary of the new feature?
06:56 nerzhul https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commi​t/ef6feca501fcf0d5a1fd2021f1d4df96a4533f65
06:56 nerzhul it's fresh
06:57 nerzhul mod metadata is exact same API than nodemeta and itemstack meta, unified by ruben
06:57 Sokomine thanks. it really ought to be mentionned somewhere...and it will break i'd say all of my old local worlds
06:57 nerzhul Sokomine, the mod security enable is not my fact, i don't know how you can migrate your world with it enabled
06:58 nerzhul mod metadata is not a response to server side modding, it was created at first for client side modding which never call io as mod security is strengher on it
06:58 nerzhul but having it server side permit to solve the io security problems with mods
06:59 Sokomine nerzhul: i'm afraid migrating old worlds isn't possible anymore without disabling mod security alltogether
06:59 nerzhul you can request insecure env i think
06:59 nerzhul permitting to migrate data
06:59 nerzhul and after 1 or 2 release, just break the migration model and keep the secure env
07:00 nerzhul merging #5193 thanks sofar
07:00 Sokomine hmmm. based on my experience with the trusted environment, i wouldn't trust its functionality too far. i doubt something considered as criminal as reading a mod config file would be allowed that way....
07:00 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5193 -- Change default nodetimer_interval to 0.2s. by sofar
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07:23 red-002 huh when was io broken in mod security??
07:26 Sokomine red-002: i don't know when exactly. it is, for me, now. reading a file in the folder of the current world no longer works. and that is what quite a lot of my mods do in order to store and retrieve their data
07:27 red-002 well that's a bug then
07:28 nerzhul red-002, in mod_security then
07:28 nerzhul red-002, are we okay with CSM branch since my yesterday squash ?
07:28 red-002 it looks ok to me
07:30 red-002 well that will need fixing before release
07:33 Sokomine ah. it seems at least read access can be regained by adding the world path in front of the file name. that used to be default afaik....
07:37 Sokomine regarding mod_security: reading seems to be possible with minetest.get_worldpath()..'/name_of_file'    - while writing works only with 'name_of_file'
07:38 Sokomine and that's probably because i add the worldpath when saving. it's still strange that reading the file without worldpath works without mod security and doesn't with it beeing enabled
07:42 Sokomine so it works again. as long as the full filename is given
08:11 Zeno` hmm
08:28 sofar I have the weirdest problem with node sounds
08:28 sofar somehow my client only plays the first footstep sound
08:29 sofar and then it stays quiet
08:29 sofar when I jump, I hear footstep sounds each jump
08:29 sofar but not when I walk
08:38 sofar ohhh, it's plainly playing the sound from a node 1m below my feet, not directly below!
08:38 sofar what the ... how does that just happen?
08:39 nore sofar: does this happen with normal mintest_game?
08:39 nore =e
08:39 nore grr
08:39 nore *+e
08:39 sofar no
08:40 sofar I gotta get sleep, way too late again
08:40 sofar later
08:40 nore bye
08:41 nore for the logs: could it be the player model that is different, so a different collision box size or something related?
08:41 red-002 yeah footstep sounds seem to work in strange ways
08:43 sofar mtg's model actually
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15:53 rubenwardy #4966
15:53 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4966 -- Use tree to list mods rather than textlist by rubenwardy
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20:09 Hijiri sofar: does it matter whether you are above or below y=0?
20:09 sofar Hijiri: I was below 0
20:10 sofar can't try right now ... at work
20:10 sofar but, I was thinking about that as well
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21:56 red-002 #5194 seems to be a bad idea
21:56 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5194 -- per client code, anti grief method, and maybe more.
21:58 rubenwardy it has been discussed before and rejected
21:59 rubenwardy it would help against casual griefer
21:59 rubenwardy *ers
21:59 red-002 yeah I suppose
21:59 rubenwardy but not hackers
21:59 red-002 still how would a code like this be created
22:00 red-002 it can't reveal any personal info so device name or user account name is out of the question
22:01 red-002 plus those are not unique
22:03 red-002 If mt was closed source it wouldn't be that bad of an idea
22:04 red-002 The thing is that people will start to trust these id's to identify  a user
22:04 red-002 and that will get messy
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22:49 nore however, a possibility would be to ban by mac address
22:49 sofar those can be changed trivially
22:49 nore mac adress can be changed easily?
22:50 sofar yup
22:50 nore I thought it was hardware and impossible to change without changing the hardware
22:50 * nore is confused
22:50 sofar https://www.google.com/webhp?sourcei​d=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=​2&ie=UTF-8#q=change+mac+address
22:50 VanessaE why not pipe lshw output through some encryption protocol and use the fingerprint from it?
22:51 * sofar wrote linux network drivers at one point, fairly sure you can trust his advice :)
22:51 VanessaE seems to me that's about as unique-but-non-personal as it can get
22:51 sofar VanessaE: can be spoofed by running in a restricted environment of container
22:51 VanessaE hm
22:52 nore VanessaE: anything like that can be spoofed
22:52 sofar there is a way around this
22:52 nore you need something that *can't* be spoofed even with modifying the client
22:52 sofar all you need to do is make accounts that can be verified by e.g. email
22:53 sofar you can already do this with the http* api in minetest
22:53 nore that was the idea between the mac address thing
22:53 nore sofar: though, if you modify your mac address
22:53 VanessaE sofar: redcrab had something like that.
22:53 sofar just have the client log in *inside* the minetest client
22:53 sofar and then verify *that* login
22:53 nore do you still receive packets that are for the modified mac address?
22:53 sofar nore: modifying the mac address is permanent until reboot, so everything works just fine
22:54 nore okay
22:54 nore I mean, I thought routers would not send you the packets, but I must be mistaken :)
22:55 sofar unless you do strict mac filtering, it works
22:55 sofar and nobody does that
22:55 nore anyway, a per-device authentication would need to be something that can't be spoofed even if the client is modified
22:55 nore so, that is, something you can't change without being unable to connect
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22:55 sofar hence, verifying an e-mail address works fine
22:56 nore yeah
22:56 sofar I know another great method
22:56 sofar we should add 2fa
22:56 sofar on top of that
22:56 nore though if you have a subdomain, you have an infinite number of email addresses
22:56 rubenwardy 10 minute mail
22:56 sofar banning entire subdomains is easy
22:56 rubenwardy + derives
22:56 sofar especially if you regularly re-verify
22:57 nore yeah, indeed
22:57 sofar 2fa will also deter many since it leaves a fingerprint
22:57 nore though you must take care not to ban mail providers
22:57 sofar but e.g. gmail makes sure people don't make thousands of addresses
22:58 ShadowNinja celeron55: Re: Master-server; what do you mean by reusability?  As for why it was rewritten: It used to be written in Perl -- it rather cryptic (as perl tends to be) and not many people seemed to be familiar enough with it to change it.
22:58 nore 2fa isn't easy; also many players do not have a second authentication factor
22:58 * sofar raises hand, knows perl
22:58 sofar duo mobile on android is fairly accessible
22:59 nore yeah, but many do not have a smartphone, nor even a cell phone
22:59 nore many of the players are children
22:59 sofar or have e-mail
22:59 ShadowNinja sofar: Well, here's what it looked like: https://github.com/minetest/minetes​t/blob/2336d21efd659d0f47abde26f906​b5fbb26b1d65/util/master/master.cgi
23:00 sofar myeah, that's your typical perl salad there
23:00 sofar doesn't look horrible per se
23:00 * nore doesn't know perl so finds this code rather cryptic
23:00 rubenwardy seems to use punctuation as variables
23:01 paramat #5199
23:01 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5199 -- Footsteps: Fix offset footstep sound bug by paramat
23:01 sofar the new version seems to use whitespace as part of the language XD
23:01 * sofar & python do not get along
23:02 * nore actually likes python a lot
23:02 red-002 pretty sure they added a way to fix that recently
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