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IRC log for #minetest-dev, 2017-02-11

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13:45 juhdanad Hi all!
13:46 Krock hi
13:46 juhdanad I think Minecraft will also use palette coloring soon: https://twitter.com/jeb_/status/823564611169484802
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13:49 Krock uhm.. what's so special about it? I mean, instead of using 1000 different nodes it uses param2 or similar
13:49 Krock but the memory amount is still the same
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13:50 juhdanad Well... true.
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13:57 Wuzzy i noticed something interesting about minetest.rotate_node and minetest.place_and_rotate
13:58 Wuzzy the node can have many many different orientations after this. this may be counter-productive for pillar-like nodes
13:58 Wuzzy i noticed this when making MineClone 2
13:58 Wuzzy i kinda solved the problem for myself, but i want to discuss
13:59 Wuzzy Problem: Rotating a pillar-shaped node (like Tree in Minetest Game) after placing it
13:59 Wuzzy Naive solution: on_place=minetest.rotate_node
14:00 Wuzzy It *seems* to work, but the devil lies in the details
14:00 Wuzzy as long as the texture mirrors perfectly, nobody notices the problem
14:00 Wuzzy but if it doesnt, strange things happen (screenshot coming soon)
14:04 Wuzzy Screenshot: https://i.imgur.com/dRqrB0n.png
14:05 Wuzzy the tree nodes and the pillar were placed first by looking into one direction, then into the other
14:05 Wuzzy My solution in MineClone 2 was to write my own minetest.place_and_rotate replacement which is basically just a simplified version
14:06 Wuzzy this function forces the node to only have 3 possible rotations, one for each of the axes (X, Y, Z)
14:06 Wuzzy because this is really all a pillar actually needs
14:08 Wuzzy btw the exact same rotation issue happens in Minetest Game as well, it is just very hard to notice because of the textures
14:10 Wuzzy Proof I'm not making this up:
14:10 Wuzzy https://i.imgur.com/N73mWLX.png
14:11 Wuzzy again, the same as in MineClone 2, but harder to notice
14:14 paramat well, just make sure to place these nodes while facing one direction, this is correct behaviour and rotation would break for many other nodes otherwise
14:14 Krock Wuzzy, nice 18-liner streak
14:14 celeron55 all the rotations are obviously needed for things that aren't pillars
14:14 Wuzzy yes, but pillars/trees are common use cases
14:15 celeron55 but maybe there could be a minetest.place_and_rotate_pillar or something, if that's a common use case
14:15 Wuzzy Yes!
14:15 Wuzzy exactly :)
14:15 paramat yeah
14:15 Wuzzy the other function can stay untouched IMO, but a pillar function would be useful
14:16 paramat but still, those placing pillars may want a particular texture rotation
14:16 Wuzzy i already made one for MineClone 2 because I didnt want to wait for an engine update (:P) :
14:16 Wuzzy paramat, not for pillars like these: https://i.imgur.com/dRqrB0n.png
14:16 Wuzzy here it is a very good idea to force 3 axes
14:17 Wuzzy of course, at the end the modder decides whther to use full rotation or only pillar rotation
14:17 Wuzzy my point is that both should be possible without hacks ;-)
14:17 paramat a player may want the shadowing to be lower-right instead of upper-left
14:17 VanessaE Wuzzy: https://github.com/minetest-mods/homedecor_mo​dpack/blob/master/homedecor/init.lua#L66-L91
14:18 VanessaE maybe one of those functions can be adapted to your needs?
14:18 Wuzzy meh, this is not worth the trouble, it makes building pillars very annoying imo
14:18 Wuzzy for some pillars you are absolutely right but not for the purpur pillar i showed in creenshot
14:18 VanessaE (of course those are geared toward wallmounted nodes, but it should be trivial to make the code do plain facedir)
14:19 Wuzzy Fun fact: I already hacked-together my variant of minetest.rotate_node
14:19 Wuzzy http://repo.or.cz/MineClone/MineClone2​.git/blob/HEAD:/mods/mcl_util/init.lua
14:19 Wuzzy I wonder what your opinions/thoughts on this are
14:19 Wuzzy maybe not perfect for Minetest inclusion, but it does the job
14:20 Wuzzy but I would like to see something along the lines of this function in builtin :)
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14:21 Wuzzy Minetest Game should also use this function for trees and cactus because of the ugly cut lines (https://i.imgur.com/N73mWLX.png)
14:23 paramat that's builder error
14:26 Wuzzy lol...
14:26 paramat but good points
14:26 Wuzzy well, in Minetest Game the player can always change the rotation afterwards
14:26 Wuzzy rotate_node is about the INITIAL rotation
14:27 Wuzzy allowing all facedirs on placement may seem like more creative freedom, but it makes building pillars also much more annoying because it gives more possibilities to screw up
14:28 Wuzzy e.g. if you want to place a pillar and start from the ceiling, then want to “match” it with the a part of the pillar you built at the bottom, you already screwed up
14:28 Wuzzy now you're forced to either tear down the pillar or to waste a screwdriver
14:28 Wuzzy by forcing a sane default orientation, you can easily build with less chances to screw up. its about convenience imo
14:29 Wuzzy Anyways, i actually want to know  opinions on this:
14:29 Wuzzy http://repo.or.cz/MineClone/MineClone2​.git/blob/HEAD:/mods/mcl_util/init.lua
14:29 paramat the screwdriver can also be an argument for not needing pillar-rotate
14:29 Wuzzy what do you mean?
14:29 paramat players will learn to build a column in one direction only
14:30 Wuzzy its still less convenient, even if you know it
14:30 paramat i prefer to assume the face-direction rotation is intentional instead of assuming rotation should be restricted
14:31 Wuzzy well this is basically Minetest Game talk, then. would a function like mcl_util.rotate_axis_and_place have any chance to be in builtin?
14:31 paramat yes it has a chance
14:31 Wuzzy yay
14:32 Wuzzy anything bad about it?
14:32 Wuzzy it sure is redundant as hell xD
14:32 Wuzzy repeats lots of code
14:32 Wuzzy but u would be in general OK by adding a completely sepearate “utility” function? cool
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14:33 paramat personally i'm unsure but others may like it
14:35 Wuzzy ok, back to my rotation argument. I summarize: SANE default rotation (3 axes) after placement with few chances to screw up. For advanced rotation: use screwdriver. Everyone = happy. :-)
14:35 VanessaE I can see wuzzy's argument for tree and other column placement, actually.  I've had the same "problem" from time to time as well.
14:35 VanessaE it IS a little annoying not being able to line up two ends of a column without the help of the screwdriver.
14:37 Wuzzy Besides, Personally I would be also happy to put common functionality into Minetest, instead of hiding all interesting hacks away in a subgame. ;-)
14:39 paramat it would make sense for the cactus texture because that has shadows under the spikes, you would want those shadows always downwards
14:39 paramat jungletree also has a shadow orientation
14:40 paramat it's somewhat dependent on texture pack
14:42 VanessaE and anyway, Wuzzy if it were up to me, your idea should be implemented as another orient_flag on minetest.rotate_and_place
14:42 VanessaE e.g. something like "force_simple_facedir = true" or whatever
14:44 VanessaE or force_three_dir maybe
14:44 paramat when someone makes a column side-texture they tend to make shadows go downwards, you would want that orientation to be preserved
14:44 VanessaE yes.
14:44 paramat .. however you build
14:45 VanessaE so I could see the flag in question always rotating the placed node to one of three specific facedirs, to match Wuzzy's need
14:45 Wuzzy orient_flag... thats an excellent idea
14:45 Wuzzy i wasnt happy with basically copying 90% of the existing function anyway
14:46 Wuzzy not ust Wuzzy's need. i'm sure many other subgame authors would also want simple pillar rotation
14:46 VanessaE just speaking in context :)
14:46 Wuzzy otherwise i wouldnt be here
14:47 Wuzzy paramat: You finally hit the nail on the head!!! :D
14:47 paramat currently cactus and tree trunks have 'on_place = minetest.rotate_node'
14:47 paramat this could then use a new function
14:48 VanessaE paramat: rotate_node() is just a shortcut to rotate_and_place() with a couple of flags preset
14:48 Wuzzy yes, once the new function is in MT, the Minetest Game change is easy as pie
14:48 VanessaE so a whole new function really isn't needed, imho
14:48 Wuzzy just need another wrapper
14:48 Wuzzy new function aka new functionality... lol
14:49 paramat ok
14:52 VanessaE I suppose so
15:04 Fixer i have a problem
15:04 Fixer /giveme cloud, can't mine it back
15:04 VanessaE you always have a problem :)
15:05 VanessaE that's a known issue
15:05 VanessaE a maptools admin pick should be able to remove it.
15:05 VanessaE (why does that node still even exist?)
15:05 Fixer compatibility?
15:06 VanessaE with?
15:06 Fixer iirc 0.2.2011 also had it, but didnot use it
15:06 Fixer yes
15:07 Fixer nobody used it tbh
15:08 VanessaE you can't get it without /give, can't dig it, and no recipes use it that I've ever heard of.
15:08 VanessaE imho that's a candidate for deletion
15:08 VanessaE (or at least, relegate it to 'minimal' and take it out of mt_game)
15:09 Thomas-S Could someone please review game#1559 ? As soon as this PR is merged, I can work on a few other PRs that make use of the new function. Thanks in advance!
15:09 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest​/minetest_game/issues/1559 -- Globalize and rename has_locked_chest_privilege by Thomas--S
15:09 Fixer VanessaE: maybe it is used for current clouds?
15:10 VanessaE nope
15:10 VanessaE current clouds are rendered
15:11 red-001 VanessaE, it seems to be really hard to remove nodes
15:12 red-001 both cloud and footsteps are unused nodes
15:12 VanessaE actually footsteps are used in some mods
15:12 red-001 yes mods
15:13 red-001 cloud is probably also used by some mod
15:13 Thomas-S If I remember correctly, there is some meteorite mod that uses the cloud node
15:14 VanessaE in my entire mods archive (747MB worth), there's only two uses, and in both cases, it's bring redefined anyway
15:14 VanessaE a couple of things use its texture
15:14 red-001 what about foot steps?
15:15 VanessaE quite a number of results for that
15:15 red-001 skyblock uses cloud
15:15 VanessaE mostly stuff using the texture or the sound
15:15 VanessaE oh yes, I forgot about that
15:15 VanessaE well I guess it stays :)
15:16 Fixer cloud in 2011: http://pastebin.com/raw/ME6umBDK
15:16 red-001 / just something
15:16 red-001 }
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15:33 paramat 'dirt with grass footsteps' is very probably present in some maps, 'cloud' too
15:34 paramat i use the footsteps texture overlay in my 'trail' mod
15:34 Fixer i think you use cloud in that spherical planet mod
15:34 Fixer flexsmth
15:34 paramat no i always use mod nodes for clouds
15:35 paramat flexrealm
15:35 Fixer default:cloud
15:35 Fixer yes
15:35 Fixer paramat: could you please add cone like planet? to emulate climbing a huge mountain? (offtopic)
15:36 paramat hm you asked but i'm not interested
15:36 Fixer ok
15:37 paramat (or not interested enough)
15:38 Fixer i've opened an issue anyway long ago (so i'm fine)
15:38 paramat Wuzzy so 3 rotations with the node top either facing Y+ X+ Z+
15:41 paramat sorry it took me a while to realise it's a good idea
15:44 VanessaE paramat: precisely that, yes
15:45 VanessaE (with the screwdriver being able to override that after the fact, if needed)
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18:23 paramat please can anyone review #4682 ? looks good to me. this is high priority as it's the 1st half of fixing all lighting bugs
18:23 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4682 -- Fix water flooding onto lava by juhdanad
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20:27 paramat #5215 just seen that firelike drawtype also has 'visual scale' applied twice, here's the fix, very similar PR to the one for plantlike
20:27 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5215 -- Firelike drawtype: Fix visual_scale being applied squared by paramat
20:38 paramat also, amusingly, i forgot to update visual scale values in mtgame *=/
20:42 paramat i have that done tonight
20:43 paramat since 5215 is near-identical to the PR for plantlike, and since it's less controversial, i'll merge later (2hrs) if no objections
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21:22 paramat i'll also merge #4052 later
21:22 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4052 -- add minetest.get_last_run_mod to lua_api.txt by HybridDog
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21:39 rubenwardy what's the use of that?
21:40 paramat no idea
21:41 paramat what do you think about merging this?
21:41 paramat i'm neutral
21:45 paramat i won't merge it then for now
21:46 celeron55 some functions can be internal to core; is this one of those?
21:46 celeron55 better not put it in lua_api.txt if it's not intended for use by mods
21:51 paramat not sure but comments suggest internal,
21:51 paramat i won't merge it
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22:15 paramat #5215 updated and simplified
22:15 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5215 -- Firelike drawtype: Fix visual_scale being applied squared by paramat
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22:47 paramat #5199 will merge this later
22:47 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5199 -- Footsteps: Fix offset footstep and shallow water sound bugs by paramat
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23:13 paramat game#1562
23:13 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest​/minetest_game/issues/1562 -- Visual scale: Update plantlike nodes to post-bugfix values by paramat
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