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IRC log for #minetest-dev, 2016-12-11

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:02 est31 didnt we raise mapblock format version when the lighting stuff was done?
00:02 est31 the store info in an u8 thing
00:02 est31 or was that not merged?
00:03 Fixer i've opened save on yesterdays mt, mt from 03.12.2016 already had that warning with this map
00:03 Fixer not a problem though
00:04 Fixer I have this https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4885 will post backtrace "soon"
00:07 est31 err what you are doing is almost surely generating a crash
00:07 est31 if a mapchunk is not fully in the map, bad things may happen
00:10 Fixer est31: i've saved that map by local map saving, it was first used as singlenode, then i changed it to v7
00:10 est31 yes
00:10 est31 enabling singlenode is the problem
00:10 est31 local map saving saves non complete chunks
00:10 est31 and apparently mapgen v7 doesnt like that very much
00:11 Fixer est31: is backtrace still useful?
00:11 est31 but I'm not a mapgen pro, ask paramat
00:11 est31 maybe he thinks otherwise, and says this is a bug
00:11 est31 Fixer: ask paramat :)
00:12 Fixer est31: wonder how to work play properly with such saves?
00:12 Fixer est31: but why it saves non complete chunks in the first place?
00:13 est31 Fixer: because the client gets sent mapblocks, not chunks
00:13 est31 and local map saving just saves whatever is on the local env
00:14 Fixer feels hacky
00:14 est31 local map is a big hack unfortunately :(
00:14 paramat i'm not sure about this, sofar may know more
00:15 paramat singlenode works the same way as mgv7
00:16 Fixer but it won't generate past borders
00:16 Fixer hmmmm
00:16 Fixer omg
00:16 Fixer wrong highlight
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00:16 Fixer another way is maybe worldediting entire save and pasting into freshly created world
00:17 paramat singlenode generates the same volume as any other mapgen, just places air instead
00:18 Fixer yeah, but imagine that you want to have save, that has functional mapgen with original seed
00:20 Fixer anyone remembers how to run minetest in gdb?
00:20 Fixer nevermind
00:22 lhofhansl #4882 should be in the release
00:22 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4882 -- Fix computation of view range (in blocks) sent to server by Rogier-5
00:23 paramat should be considered yes
00:23 Fixer and I can't open that world in debug version o_0
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00:34 Fixer ok, i guess i crashed it on build with some prs that change mapblock version, will redo it
00:37 Fixer excellent, catched the crash
00:40 Fixer hm
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00:43 Fixer crash related to lighting?
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00:44 Fixer est31: i need gdb help for sec
00:44 est31 ok
00:44 Fixer est31: I did "thread apply all bt"
00:44 Fixer is this enough?
00:44 est31 did you press enter until it didnt ask you to press more?
00:45 Fixer i pressed but it is soooooooo long
00:45 Fixer bt full gives more info
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00:47 Fixer first page of "bt full" http://pastebin.com/raw/hURw8e0R
00:47 Fixer 1500 lines of this light spread and counting
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08:12 paramat #4882 tested and works +1
08:12 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4882 -- Fix computation of view range (in blocks) sent to server by Rogier-5
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10:38 Zeno` for those asking about the light LUT...
10:39 Zeno` at the time I added gamma there was compelling pressure for however gamma worked that the current, at that time, light values would remain the same by default
10:40 Zeno` the reason 1.8 was chosen was to at least try and have it at a point where it could be improved upon in the future
10:41 Zeno` but the main reason that it is the way it is was to retain the previous light values
10:42 Zeno` while at the same time doing two things: a) get gamma in there at least (it had been asked for for years); and b) act as a stepping stone
10:43 Zeno` if it wasn't for the strong opposition to changing the default light values then the code would already be like sofar's current PR
10:45 sfan5 paramat: can anything be done to make v7 caves look more like v6 caves?
10:45 sfan5 because IMO they are too narrow to properly explore
10:46 paramat erm, not really. i can check the width again
10:47 paramat i tuned the width by flying underground for a long time and finding the narrowest tuunel, then tuning to make sure the narrowest is walkable
10:47 Zeno` oh and the reason gamma correction is "backwards".... I was asked to do that as well
10:47 Zeno` even though it's just wrong
10:47 paramat the width tends to vary a lot so they still get wide at places
10:47 Zeno` but it should all be in the logs somewhere. In the end I just wanted gamma there. As a start
10:48 paramat but i can check again
10:49 paramat zeno, i see, i linked to this in the thread so people see
10:50 paramat ok so since mgv7 might become default i will check the tunnel width again
10:50 Zeno` thanks :)
10:51 paramat the large caves of mgv6 are in mgv7 and not much changed
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10:52 Zeno` paramat, I can't recall exactly why I ended up agreeing to the compromises etc but it may have been close to a feature freeze and having *any* gamma was better than having none at all, so I just accepted people's objections etc and merged what I was able to without conflict. Especially considering how long people had been asking for the feature
10:53 paramat heh i can imagine people insisting on preserving the light values that we are now rejecting
10:54 Zeno` yeah
10:56 Zeno` as for my choice of 1.8 as default gamma I can explain that as well. It was either 1.8 or 2.2 (both kinda standard). 1.0 did not make sense because it would have made future changes harder (everyone would have had to change their configs from 1.0 to either 1.8 or 2.2 to make things look right again). So that choice I can easily explain
10:58 paramat #4847 needs review, seems to fix duplicate objects
10:59 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4847 -- Fix unnecessary block loading and duplicating objects by juhdanad
11:03 Zeno` (did not make sense as a default gamma I mean... even though code-side it would have, it would have made future changes more painful for users)
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15:55 Zeno` what is the commit that suddenly opened console to fullscreen?
15:55 Zeno` I can't find it
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16:02 Zeno` https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3956'
16:03 Zeno` #3956
16:03 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3956 -- F10 console covers the entire viewport/screen
16:03 Zeno` that needs to be re-addressed / talked about again
16:04 Shara I would personally love for height of consol on f10 to be adjustable from options. I currently can't play using an official client due to this.
16:05 Shara Would have posted something there before if I had known an issue had been opened.
16:06 est31 well there is f10 console and the t console
16:06 est31 if you want a small one, use t
16:07 Shara est31: I don't want a small one. I want a nice overview which doesn't drag my eyes right to the bottom of the screen and give me a headache.
16:07 Shara t is also hugely inconvenient for a quick review, because in addition to it being so small, you can't close it from the same key.
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16:08 Krock however, the F5 text should be pushed down when T or / is used
16:08 Krock F10 is supposed to be a chat-only view
16:08 est31 so basically, t is too small and f10 too big for you?
16:09 Shara Krock: it's not about wanting to play when using it, it's about the drop down motion of it pulling my eyes too far.
16:09 Zeno` est31, f10 has more text lines shown than my text editor and IRC COMBINED
16:09 Shara est31: Yes. I know some people like it fullscreen and for people with smaller screens  it must be an improvement, but it should really be configurable in options.
16:10 Zeno` well, maybe not combined. But in IRC I have about 1/3rd the number of lines shown
16:10 Zeno` and in text editor 1/2
16:11 Shara I have tried to adjust to it many times, but no matter how I try to adapt, it leads to headaches within about half hour of me playing.
16:11 Fixer T-chat menu sucks
16:11 Zeno` I don't need 700 lines of useless chat text. I want f10 console open and be able to do stuff at the same time
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16:11 est31 Zeno`: but how are you going to walk then?
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16:11 est31 you cant use WASD
16:11 est31 because thats used for entering text now
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16:12 Zeno` est31, you can see what's happening in front of you
16:12 est31 so whats bad about t?
16:12 Zeno` instead of being hidden behind a wall of irrelevant text
16:13 Zeno` est31, my main problem with it is that no other app on my computer displays 700 lines of text at once
16:13 Zeno` why should it?
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16:13 Krock then don't use F10?
16:13 Krock regular T chat looks fine
16:13 est31 Zeno`: you can open minetest in non full screen
16:13 Shara t chat is useless
16:13 Zeno` Krock, seeing some history is fine... but more than T
16:14 est31 Shara: why?
16:14 Zeno` est31, but it still takes up the entire MT screen
16:14 Shara I want somethign that shows more than that, and that will open and close one one single key
16:14 Zeno` and for what purpose does it use all that space?
16:14 Shara Basically, what f10 used to do before .14
16:14 Krock we could go back in time and use the formspec again :3
16:14 Shara on one*
16:15 Shara Would it be difficult to simply have the height as an option?
16:15 Zeno` it should never have been merged
16:15 est31 not really
16:15 est31 Shara: well you convinced me
16:15 Zeno` unless height was provided as an option and defaulted to 25-30% of the screen height
16:15 est31 lets add an option for the height of f10
16:15 Shara Krock: You know this isn't a new issue for me, because back when it first happened I came to you for help to compile my own client.
16:15 Zeno` it's been an issue for me since it was first merged
16:16 Krock Shara, oh. So you're not playing with this view at all?
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16:16 Zeno` if it was configurable, then no big deal
16:16 Shara Krock: I've tried it several times and simply can't adjust.
16:16 Krock :/
16:17 Zeno` Shara, why should you have to adjust to something that is essentially useless anyway?
16:17 Shara I know Don started to compile his own clients as well as a result of it, though he's not around to ask about his experience now.
16:18 Shara Zeno`: It's fien for me if some peopel prefer it this way, and I don't want to take away from them. Just an option would be really appreciated.
16:18 Shara fine/people*
16:19 Zeno` looking at the comments, most people seemed to want it configurable anyway
16:19 Zeno` and it's something that should be configurable
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16:21 Wuzzy I suppose that “feature freeze” also means “beta testers, on your marks!”, right? ;-)
16:22 Wuzzy Could someone please add a News post to https://forum.minetest.net/viewforum.php?f=18 then?
16:22 Wuzzy about the feature freeze, that is
16:23 est31 Shara: can you show a screenshot of your current setuü
16:24 est31 setup
16:24 Shara est31: I have mine set up so f10 behaviour is identical to in .13
16:25 Shara I'm currently just using OldCoder's clients since he includes my changes in his builds.
16:26 Krock Wuzzy, there already are some topics about the latest development
16:26 Shara Will grab a screenshot in a moment anyway
16:26 Krock there are not many people at all who test these feature freeze builds at all
16:27 Krock -"at all"
16:27 Wuzzy there will be even less if its not even announced :P
16:28 Zeno` est31, thanks for the additional label. I guess that's really what it is "a feature request"
16:28 Zeno` personally I hate the current behaviour (and so do others), and others like it
16:28 Fixer Krock: i test
16:28 Krock Fixer, yeah, you do :)
16:28 Fixer Krock: some server owners use latest git
16:28 Zeno` so the middle ground needs to be found I think
16:28 rubenwardy I suggest releasing 0.4.15-rc1 early for testing
16:29 rubenwardy to persuade people to test
16:29 rubenwardy maybe
16:30 Fixer sfan said he will update his builds after freeze, just use this + post a topic about freeze
16:30 Shara est31: .13 client is on left, current one I play from on right, both showing consol size: http://oi65.tinypic.com/2e0sck5.jpg
16:31 Shara As you can see, I basically just aimed to undo the change and nothing else
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16:37 sfan5 Wuzzy: an RC build will be released when it's time
16:37 sfan5 the question is when
16:37 Wuzzy I see. :-)
16:38 Wuzzy just give the beta testers enough time to test and the translators enough time to translate.
16:38 Wuzzy take ur time
16:39 rubenwardy 0.4.14's feature freeze was announced: https://forum.minetest.net/vi​ewtopic.php?f=18&t=14102
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16:42 Fixer we need to do the same for 0.4.15 asking server owners who use latest to update to really latest post freeze version
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16:45 est31 mhh I think I really should update the translation templates
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17:28 Wuzzy est31: yes please :)
17:29 Wuzzy translator here: Does anyone here now what is meant with “to instrument” or “instrumentation”?
17:29 Wuzzy it is part of the profiler , apparently
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17:55 red-001 updated #4468
17:55 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4468 -- Load textures from the subfolders in texturepacks. by red-001
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18:25 hmmmm i have located paramat's mgflat:  http://i.imgur.com/Qfvzx.jpg
18:30 est31 lol
18:33 Krock haha, right
18:35 VanessaE heh
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20:07 shivajiva does anyone know of a way to stop a tool being dropped by a player like let's say the admin pick?
20:08 est31 if its an admin pick, you can easily check at each interaction if the player who wields it is the admin
20:08 est31 if the player is not the admin, you can remove the pick from the inv
20:09 shivajiva agreed but I wondered if there is a way to prevent the tool being accidentally dropped by the player
20:22 celeron55 https://paste.fedoraproject.org/504916/48148774/
20:22 celeron55 "Subject: Are you okay with me putting Minetest on greenlight?"
20:22 celeron55 ehm... maybe not
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20:28 Calinou Godot isn't GPL, so they're wrong :)
20:28 Calinou also, I already foresee the DLCs
20:29 Calinou "Minetest DLC: Add Stone"
20:29 shivajiva :/
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20:45 lhofhansl1 Please consider #4881 for 0.4.15. I realize it's not a bug fix, but it does go well with #4811, #4724, and #4746 to reduce server load.
20:45 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4881 -- Process ABMs in a spherical volume instead of a cuboid by lhofhansl
20:45 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4811 -- Optimize/adjust blocks/ActiveObjects sent at the server based on client settings. by lhofhansl
20:45 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4724 -- Improve number of blocks sent and occlusion culling. by lhofhansl
20:45 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4746 -- Don't limit vertical block send area to 1/2. by lhofhansl
20:54 sfan5 lhofhansl1: your pr is missing the increase of active_block_range
20:54 sfan5 or is that intended?
20:54 sfan5 oh nvm
20:55 lhofhansl1 Paramat requested removing that.
20:55 sfan5 :/
20:55 sfan5 we need to increase it at some point anyway
20:55 sfan5 you can't think of lower powered devices always
20:56 lhofhansl1 I didn't feel that strongly. I agree 2 is way too small. I find 4 is close to optimal between what one can see and server resources (for my setup anyway).
20:57 lhofhansl1 It would be nice if things like this could auto-tune. For example when ABM times are too long, dial it down.
20:57 lhofhansl1 (hard to get right, though)
20:57 sfan5 that would be pretty easy to add
20:57 sfan5 it already complains about too high abm times on errorstream
20:57 sfan5 j
20:57 lhofhansl1 exactly. :)
20:58 lhofhansl1 I guess one could have an upper and lower bound and have the server tune within that range.
20:59 sfan5 however for this release i think we should take the opportunity to improve it and just ignore lower-powered devices for a second
20:59 lhofhansl1 what should the target be? 200ms when it reports a warning? Or lower, like 100ms?
20:59 sfan5 besides, the abm range can be set lower on android
20:59 sfan5 dunno, the 200ms complain-limit needs some thinking about too
21:00 lhofhansl1 200ms out of every seconds seems like a lot already (but depends on how many cores the server has, too)
21:01 sfan5 indeed
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21:17 lhofhansl1 We can discuss on #4892
21:17 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4892 -- active_block_range (and other setting) should auto-tune based on server performance
21:22 sfan5 oh also
21:22 sfan5 est31, hmmmm: any thoughts about releasing an RC build on the forums for testing?
21:23 hmmmm ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
21:24 hmmmm actually it might be a good idea.  users registered on the mt forums are much more likely to be power users but still somewhat less than somebody who uses development versions
21:25 hmmmm it's not quite the general public, which i'd argue is through package repositories and the main page
21:25 hmmmm i doubt you'll find any bugs you didn't know about before though
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21:27 sfan5 well maybe not bugs, but complaints about minor details
21:29 rubenwardy and a pointless discussion about 0.5
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21:59 rubenwardy #4893
21:59 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4893 -- Fix camera jumping on Android when panning past 0/360 mark by rubenwardy
21:59 rubenwardy Wayward_One ^
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22:18 rubenwardy on a role today
22:18 rubenwardy #4894
22:18 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4894 -- Fix segfault on startup error on Android by rubenwardy
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22:57 Fixer_ Calinou got 53 fps on LinuxGaming2 spawn... with shaders disabled on i7 and GTX10XXsomething 8gb ram... i got about 34 fps with core i3 + ATI HD6870 1gb
22:57 Fixer_ 53 fps, Carl
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23:08 Fixer_ comparison was crude, Calinou had like 2x more pixels to draw and had fsaa 8x i believe
23:09 Calinou yes, 8x MSAA, though it probably wouldn't be much faster without AA
23:09 Fixer_ i think fsaa does not affect performance much when i tested
23:10 Fixer_ do you know what really SUCKS?
23:10 Fixer_ say you have vrange 240 and 20fps... you lower v_range...
23:10 Fixer_ and you lower it a lot
23:11 Fixer_ below 100, and only than your abismal 19 fps turns to 20... 24
23:11 Fixer_ 40 fps at vrange 50
23:17 Fixer_ https://i.imgur.com/JB9GSaN.png
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23:55 paramat game#1450 has been updated with additional necessary changes. sofar
23:55 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest​/minetest_game/issues/1450 -- Default: Add missing 'default_dig_snappy' sound by paramat

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