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IRC log for #minetest-dev, 2016-12-12

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Time Nick Message
00:08 paramat #4888 possibly for release
00:08 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4888 -- Handle multiple deserialization of a block's entities by Rogier-5
00:32 paramat Fixer_ see https://github.com/minetest/minetest​/issues/4885#issuecomment-266319522
00:33 Fixer_ paramat: i can try
00:34 paramat perhaps in the singlenode version since that works
00:37 Fixer_ i can try in crashy world
00:38 Fixer_ posted a pic
00:38 paramat try getting your co-ords to match and see where your feet are
00:39 paramat maybe try digging it
00:40 paramat or placing to
00:40 paramat anyway no idea
00:40 Fixer_ digged, placed, no crash
00:40 Fixer_ will try crashy map
00:42 Fixer_ paramat: same thing for crashy map
00:43 Fixer_ i go sleep, gn
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03:22 paramat any objections to me merging #4884 later? seems a bugfix
03:22 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4884 -- Set maximum viewing range to 4000 by Rogier-5
03:23 paramat i can also merge #4890
03:23 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4890 -- Don't cache active_block_range setting in a static by lhofhansl
03:26 paramat #4847 and #4888 need review
03:26 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4847 -- Fix unnecessary block loading and duplicating objects by juhdanad
03:26 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4888 -- Handle multiple deserialization of a block's entities by Rogier-5
03:28 est31 paramat: this could get your review: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/4896
03:42 cheapie #4847 does fix the issues that I was having and had attempted to fix.
03:42 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4847 -- Fix unnecessary block loading and duplicating objects by juhdanad
03:55 paramat looking at 4896
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04:55 Topic for #minetest-dev is now Minetest core development and maintenance. FEATURE FREEZE FOR 0.4.15 IN EFFECT. Chit-chat goes to #minetest. Consider this instead of /msg celeron55. http://irc.minetest.net/minetest-dev/ http://dev.minetest.net/
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06:32 paramat unless objections i'll merge #4829 #4884 #4890 #4896 #4889 soon
06:32 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4829 -- Mapgen: Make mgv7 the default mapgen for 0.4.15 by paramat
06:32 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4884 -- Set maximum viewing range to 4000 by Rogier-5
06:32 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4890 -- Don't cache active_block_range setting in a static by lhofhansl
06:32 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4896 -- Should have platform-independent line breaking by mafagafogigante
06:32 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4889 -- Fix message text in advanced settings tab by Rogier-5
06:33 paramat i guess 4889 isn't essential but it's trivial
06:33 paramat and fixes something misleading
06:34 paramat good that we have 2 weeks of freeze, much stuff to do
06:37 Zeno` what's the bug in 4890?
06:37 paramat see links in https://github.com/minetest/minetes​t/pull/4881#issuecomment-266263077
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06:39 Zeno` hmm, ok
06:40 Zeno` although
06:40 Zeno` how can it change if it's const anyway? let me look at the context again
06:41 Zeno` oh it's inside an if statement
06:41 Zeno` yeah +1
06:41 Zeno` if it was at function scope level I can't see it being a problem, but yeah ok I agree with hmmmm
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06:45 hmmmm ??
06:45 hmmmm that is at the function scope level
06:47 hmmmm static is wrong because the value of active block range will not get set again until the entire program is restart
06:47 Zeno` yeah I know that
06:47 Zeno` but how can it be function scope?
06:47 hmmmm because it's declared in a function
06:47 Zeno` but it cannot be accessed outside of the conditional body
06:48 Zeno` so that's not function scope...
06:48 Zeno` I was also assuming that it could not be changed (but now I see your comment about mods)
06:49 hmmmm well what if the ServerEnvironment is destroyed and reconstructed
06:49 hmmmm i.e. somebody enters a singleplayer game, exits, and then restarts singleplayer
06:50 Zeno` so there are many problems
06:50 Zeno` the PR fixes this one: https://github.com/lhofhansl/minetest​/blob/969192a3b2b469e998f44b674aceca9​ece728cf8/src/environment.cpp#L1292
06:51 Zeno` What if I start a singleplayer game, exit to menu, and start and server
06:51 Zeno` wouldn't then https://github.com/lhofhansl/minetest​/blob/969192a3b2b469e998f44b674aceca9​ece728cf8/src/environment.cpp#L1231 be a bug as well?
06:51 hmmmm yeah it would be
06:51 hmmmm i mean that's how static variables work... right?
06:52 Zeno` yes
06:52 Zeno` but it also means we have hundreds of places to check for this bug
06:52 hmmmm alright
06:52 Zeno` because it's all over the place hehe
06:52 Zeno` but I see what you mean now
06:52 hmmmm we need to find who originally made this mistake
06:53 hmmmm and seriously bop them on the head for not understanding the static keyword
06:53 hmmmm fuckin rubenwardy
06:53 lhofhansl1 sorry, sloppy of me not to look at other instance while I was at it.
06:53 Zeno` lhofhansl1, nah, I mean it's in many other files as well
06:54 hmmmm alright this is salvagable
06:54 hmmmm if lhofhansl's PRs aren't merged yet
06:54 hmmmm we can revert this https://github.com/lhofhansl/minetest/commi​t/4efb7eb7347bfd712297f5e11d3a055bb74cf597
06:55 hmmmm https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/3140
06:55 hmmmm can't say it hadn't gotten the appropriate approval...
06:55 Zeno` actually the ones in all the other files are ok based on a quick grep
06:56 Zeno` but it's not your fault lhofhansl1
06:56 hmmmm > Maybe these settings are changed rarely enough to warrant a temporary optimization like this but I really wish there was some way of updating these without restarting the server. This is ultimately just an another kind of compromise.
06:56 hmmmm they call it an optimization with a compromise, i call it a bug
06:56 hmmmm make it an instance variable holy shit
06:56 hmmmm this is not complicated
06:56 Zeno` well it is a bug. Although it would probably be rare
06:56 hmmmm they're just too lazy to modify the class definitions too
06:57 Zeno` for example, I'd never encounter it but only because of the way I launch minetest
06:57 hmmmm sure
06:57 hmmmm it's still a bug
06:57 Zeno` it's always from shell and not main menu
06:57 Zeno` yeah, it's a bug
06:57 hmmmm i wish celeron had -1ed that PR
06:57 hmmmm nobody else seemed to care about the problem
06:59 Zeno` where's the PR?
06:59 est31 its not a problem
06:59 est31 just restart minetest
07:00 est31 the thing is: the current setting system is slow as fuck
07:00 est31 string keys wtf
07:00 est31 map wtf
07:00 est31 different types that are dispatched dynamically
07:00 est31 wtf
07:03 nrzkt est31, having a proper backend for embedded setting is more appropriate, unordered_maps using enum key and float,int,uint,string as values is far more better in performance terms and doesn't require to cache settings everywhere
07:03 nrzkt and keep the map<string,string> for mods
07:04 nrzkt it's not perfect but look at this: https://gitlab.com/epixelgame/ep​ixel/blob/master/src/settings.h {and cpp too}
07:05 nrzkt it's not maps, i used 1 array per variable type, cannot be faster :)
07:05 Zeno` hmmmm, thanks btw. I have to admit that I wasn't really aware (although it's obvious) of the quit to menu relaunch scenario
07:06 paramat so i can still merge the 5 PRs i mentioned?
07:07 Zeno` paramat, better check with lhofhansl1 on 4890
07:07 lhofhansl1 #4890 is half-assed
07:07 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4890 -- Don't cache active_block_range setting in a static by lhofhansl
07:07 paramat ok not that one
07:08 nrzkt paramat, #4890 is like a feature, not a bugfix and we are in feature freeze
07:08 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4890 -- Don't cache active_block_range setting in a static by lhofhansl
07:08 paramat it's a bugfix
07:08 lhofhansl1 In fact should probably abandon 4890 and look at setting holistically.
07:08 lhofhansl1 settings
07:10 paramat i'll merge 4829 4884 4889 4896 in a moment
07:11 Zeno` lhofhansl1, will that be simple enough to qualify as a bugfix and make it into release?
07:11 est31 lhofhansl1: as I said in the PR https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/3140 I'd favour a fixed settings system over cached settings
07:11 est31 Zeno`: I dont think so
07:11 hmmmm look
07:11 est31 for the release we can ship with the caching undone
07:11 hmmmm there are three ways to go about it
07:11 hmmmm keep the bug in there
07:11 hmmmm revert the whole PR
07:12 hmmmm or fix it the correct way
07:12 Zeno` I think keep the bug there for release
07:12 nrzkt paramat, definitively not a bugfix if you change the behaviour of mapblock sending
07:12 hmmmm why is this even a discussion
07:12 Zeno` it's not a critical bug or even one that likely to be encountered so I vote we wait for lhofhansl1's holistic approach
07:13 hmmmm mmm
07:13 lhofhansl1 nrzkt's holistic approach :)
07:13 Zeno` oh
07:13 hmmmm holistic approach?
07:13 Zeno` well, we'd better fix it then
07:13 est31 it still needs lots of fixing
07:13 Zeno` lol :D sorry nrzkt
07:13 paramat well i'm not going to merge that PR, just the other 4
07:13 est31 nrz's changes most times need lots of fixing :/
07:14 est31 in this case, the PR needs to not touch the actual settings object
07:14 nrzkt yes, you don't need to touch settings object there, just fix the behaviour with current settings object
07:14 est31 it needs to be forked, so that there is one class for the global settings, and one class for other stuff like world.mt
07:14 lhofhansl1 I'll make one last plea for #4881. Conserves ABM server resources
07:14 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4881 -- Process ABMs in a spherical volume instead of a cuboid by lhofhansl
07:14 nrzkt the different approach i shown should be done after release
07:15 Zeno` well let's just revert https://github.com/lhofhansl/minetest/commi​t/4efb7eb7347bfd712297f5e11d3a055bb74cf597
07:15 nrzkt est31, just count all my commits and how many fixes you will see < 1%
07:15 hmmmm I have no clue what you people are concocting but this is pretty simple to me.  Cache the settings by adding a variable for it in the class definition, and set it in the constructor
07:15 Zeno` it's the source of the bug and doesn't do a whole lot really anyway
07:15 nrzkt it's not SRP with bugs you introduced est31 lol
07:15 lhofhansl1 that won't cleanly revert due to #4811 :(
07:15 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4811 -- Optimize/adjust blocks/ActiveObjects sent at the server based on client settings. by lhofhansl
07:15 nrzkt i agree with hmmmm approach, it's the simpler way to do it atm
07:16 Zeno` hmmmm, like we do everywhere else?
07:16 hmmmm ;_;
07:16 Zeno` isn't that a bit boring?
07:16 Zeno` :)
07:16 nrzkt Zeno`, boring but we are in feature freeze, feature freeze are boring :)
07:16 hmmmm what we need is not necessarily another new chunk of un-unit tested code
07:17 Zeno` I was being sarcastic nrzkt ;)
07:17 nrzkt and est31 stop this useless attack, you also introduce bugs with your SRP implementation and memory problems and i didn't complain like a cow :p
07:18 sofar a lot of mistakes were made
07:18 sofar what matters is that we resolve them
07:18 hmmmm nrzkt, he has a point.  you introduced literally 4 fatal security flaws with serializing/deserializing network packets
07:18 Zeno` oh, let's not go there
07:18 Zeno` we have a problem to fix... that's all
07:18 hmmmm true
07:18 nrzkt maybe, but what's the point to remember it everytime except being a stupid coward ? :p
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07:19 hmmmm making mistakes is fine
07:19 nrzkt just go ahead fix it , complaining time is only when the bug is in master.
07:19 hmmmm but making mistakes and wanting to ship it out ASAP no regard for quality assurance is seriously bad
07:19 hmmmm it's your "gotta be agile! :D" attitude paired with the low quality that makes everyone worried
07:19 nrzkt hmmmm, oh i agree with you on this
07:19 hmmmm "oh it's okay it's just a game"
07:20 nrzkt i like agility but security is important :p
07:20 hmmmm no god dammiit what the hell no it's not just a fucking game
07:20 hmmmm people are running servers on the open internet
07:20 hmmmm and the source code is right there asking to be reviewed by the wrong people
07:20 nrzkt hmmmm, i didn't said "it's okay it's just a game", assurely no, it's others point of view, i am security aware
07:20 nrzkt look at my comments on HTTP lua API, on the ShadowNinja security PR etc
07:20 hmmmm i wouldn't be surprised if there have been black hats who took advantage of people running the development versions of the servers
07:21 hmmmm that we just didn't know about
07:21 sofar ^
07:21 sofar agreed, I think we should take security very serious
07:21 OldCoder MT is not a large target
07:21 OldCoder THough yes regarding security
07:22 OldCoder There are a couple of hundred MT servers compared with millions of juicy open Windows systems
07:22 OldCoder Unlikely we seem a profitable venue
07:22 OldCoder Hm
07:22 OldCoder Though under Android it is a different story
07:22 OldCoder We could easily end up on the Gooligan list
07:22 OldCoder
07:22 hmmmm for that flaw we lucked out that
07:23 hmmmm 1). i caught it before it got released
07:23 hmmmm 2). nobody runs development versions of the android clients
07:23 hmmmm can't guarantee that'll happen the next time
07:23 Zeno` most people run dev versions of android clients
07:23 hmmmm wat
07:23 OldCoder Zeno`, based on?
07:24 Zeno` because most people seem to use multicraft or whatever it's called
07:24 OldCoder Ah, his version
07:24 OldCoder Plus the new one
07:24 hmmmm ahh
07:24 lhofhansl1 can somebody point to the security issue?
07:24 OldCoder That the Sadies were from
07:24 hmmmm RIP multicraft
07:24 OldCoder "Exploration" is a security problem
07:24 OldCoder He will listen to requests; what do you need him to do?
07:24 OldCoder (Multicraft)
07:24 * OldCoder has talked to him
07:25 OldCoder "Exploration" guy seems a little high and mighty
07:25 lhofhansl1 point _me_ that is
07:26 OldCoder lhofhansl1, I just stopped by and am reading up, but part of the issue is that this is too close to release
07:26 OldCoder I gather that more discussion is needed
07:26 paramat (merging ..)
07:34 Zeno` what are we talking about?
07:34 nrzkt not our problem if a fork didn't do security when releasing on android, google will just nuke it if it's anoying
07:35 paramat merged
07:37 Zeno` what issue?
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08:42 Zeno` did you enjoy your daily sleep, paramat?
08:43 paramat sleep comes later, after anime
08:46 Zeno` heh
08:47 Zeno` anime... so that what it's called these days
08:59 paramat one for mtgame devs #1450
08:59 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1450 -- Error at closing GUI: guiFormSpecMenu.cpp:131
08:59 paramat oops game#1450
08:59 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest​/minetest_game/issues/1450 -- Default: Add missing 'default_dig_snappy' sound by paramat
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10:52 tenplus1 hi folks
10:53 tenplus1 Question: When registering a biome, what is the max/min heat and humidity values I can work with ??? (is it 0 to 100) ???
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12:03 ^v is the lua api bad?
12:03 ^v (serious question)
12:09 Calinou what does it lack, for you, ^v?
12:11 ^v Calinou, havent looked at it
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12:13 ^v vector could use a metatable
12:13 ^v but bad performance unless you are using luajit
12:13 Calinou well, bare Lua never has performed well
12:14 Calinou all scripting languages that are easy to embed are slow, I think
12:14 Calinou except LuaJIT ;)
12:14 Calinou V8 (Node.js) is a considerably bigger implementation
12:14 Calinou a bit faster than LuaJIT, sometimes
12:14 Calinou and more actively developed
12:15 ^v LuaJIT doesnt have armv8
12:15 ^v buuuuuuuuut
12:15 ^v it has a few 5.2 features
12:16 ^v and ffi which is amazing
12:16 ^v Calinou, LuaJIT seems to be much better at intense hashmap usage than v8
12:17 ^v and new 4 state gc hype
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13:23 rubenwardy merging #4893 and #4894 in 15 mins...
13:23 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4893 -- Fix camera jumping on Android when panning past 0/360 mark by rubenwardy
13:23 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4894 -- Fix segfault on startup error on Android by rubenwardy
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13:38 rubenwardy done
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14:41 rubenwardy I was aware a full restart was required. I created that PR when looking for common setting to cache, after I was advised to cache settings using static: https://github.com/minetest/​minetest/pull/2908#r34525174
14:41 rubenwardy I'll work on caching as class members when I have time (this evening or tomorrow)
14:41 rubenwardy Is the bug the full restart, or was a larger problem caused?
14:42 rubenwardy although admittedly that PR was unneeded given that the functions aren't called that much
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15:04 nrzkt rubenwardy: you need a full restart when you change cached settings
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19:22 Fixer reminder, i don't remember if bug report is reported but nick autocompleation is broken in minetest chat
19:23 est31 oh
19:23 est31 didnt know about this
19:23 est31 good to know
19:23 est31 thats quite a blocker I think
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19:44 nrzkt it's a bug, but doesn't block minetest itself to work properly
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20:30 Fixer not a blocker
20:33 est31 Fixer: broken in which way?
20:33 Fixer est31: in T-chat menu, and i think in F10 too, sometimes it work, sometimes is not
20:33 est31 oh, spurious
20:33 est31 thats bad
20:34 Fixer yes
20:34 Fixer and maybe in console too
20:34 Fixer https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1934
20:35 Fixer est31: you can remove that message, i already said that in this issue 3 month ago %)
20:36 Fixer est31: look post above you
20:36 est31 ah
20:36 est31 yeah
20:36 Fixer just connected back to server and can't autocomplete :(
20:37 Fixer but thats not a blocker
20:37 Fixer just annoyance
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20:37 Fixer even if I type Cassandr , it will not add "a" to the end (that player was online on server)
20:38 Fixer not even if I type /msg nam..TAB
20:40 est31 yeah if its spurious its no blocker
20:41 est31 Fixer: does it happen immediately after login or only after some time?
20:48 Fixer est31: this time immediately
20:48 Fixer it is random? hard to say, i did not looked deep into it
20:49 est31 Fixer: okay, so its not related to the buffer being too big
20:50 Fixer est31: i even think once it suddenly started working in the middle of the game %)
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20:55 Fixer also
20:56 Fixer i seeing slight annoyance for long time: when you combine two slabs into one, sometimes slab appears above, so you need to mine it out, it does not add up into inventory
20:57 Fixer i will probably open a bug since i this for loooooong time on many servers
20:58 Fixer since i see this*
21:00 Fixer note to myself: check what happens if snow falls on rail track
21:04 Fixer checked: gravel and snow that fell on railtracks will destroy them (drop), hope it is intended
21:04 Fixer interesting moment
21:05 Fixer if you place rail and cart on it and drop gravel on it - it will fall and merge with cart, and rail will popup, but not cart
21:05 celeron55 hmm, who's managing this release now? is it paramat again?
21:06 garywhite Hi octacian
21:06 Calinou do we have a end-user changelog?
21:06 Calinou I could try to write one if needed
21:07 celeron55 it seems it's paramat; i guess it is then
21:07 garywhite celeron55: Can I be in charge of releasing to download sites?
21:07 garywhite (I did update MT for Download.com as the last version there was 0.4.7, & I have gotten a lot of downloads since then
21:07 garywhite for the 4.14 release
21:09 celeron55 feel free to; if nobody has been doing something for that long, i don't think they'll mind 8)
21:09 garywhite ok thanks
21:10 Fixer offtopic, but actual sittable chair in default minetest: https://i.imgur.com/8uS26hg.png (idea from minecraft
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21:28 celeron55 looks like a weird toilet
21:28 Fixer 2 in one
21:28 Fixer fancy seat+toilet
21:28 celeron55 a toilet where you stand in
21:28 celeron55 the weirdness never ends
21:28 Fixer add a nice screen in front of it
21:28 Fixer 3 in 1
21:28 Fixer seat+toilet+PC
21:29 Fixer prototype: http://wereblog.com/wp-cont​ent/uploads/2014/04/614.jpg
21:30 celeron55 :D
21:30 nrzkt i agree with celeron55 it's a toilet for old man :)
21:31 nrzkt seat + toilet for incontienent old man :D
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21:34 celeron55 Calinou: if the newest changelog is not in the wiki, i'm guessing there isn't one and you could write one
21:35 est31 its usually done shortly before release
21:35 est31 but its never wrong to draft one
21:36 celeron55 well, it won't change much in feature freeze
21:39 est31 not really
21:53 sfan5 Calinou: please write a changelog
21:53 sfan5 i hate doing that (had to do it last time)
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22:09 Calinou ok, I'll look into that
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23:28 paramat celeron55 there's no single release manager, we decided to manage it together
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23:48 paramat rubenwardy if you have time game#1450
23:48 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest​/minetest_game/issues/1450 -- Default: Add missing 'default_dig_snappy' sound by paramat
23:49 paramat oh sorry you reviewed
23:50 * paramat is half asleep
23:51 paramat game#1451 ?
23:51 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest​/minetest_game/issues/1451 -- Remove 'oddly breakable by hand' from glass?
23:54 paramat will merge #4897 later
23:54 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4897 -- Mgv7: Change default cave width to 0.09 by sfan5
23:56 Cody2002 joined #minetest-dev

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