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IRC log for #minetest-dev, 2015-07-03

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Time Nick Message
00:00 RealBadAngel VanessaE have some problems with it too, but in her case even a benchmark runs way too slow
00:01 hmmmm skipped to 43fcfbfe05578d7471d40c8c087fd04e24b264b5, which is the first bad one i saw so far
00:02 Sokomine that is very difficult to tell. fps on my low-grade hardware depend a lot on circumstances. when loading a large area, fps still drop drasticly. staring at the floor while moving forward gives considerably better speed than looking at the horizon. most worlds vary too much to really tell speed changes
00:02 hmmmm but not quite as bad as HEAD
00:02 hmmmm at 43fcfbf the same scene is at like 17 FPS
00:03 RealBadAngel main factor to slow down rendering when keeping same distance are leaves
00:03 RealBadAngel fancy leaves are proffesional fps killer
00:03 est31 heh
00:05 RealBadAngel https://github.com/RealBadAngel/defaul​t_normals/blob/master/screenshot1.png
00:05 RealBadAngel btw ^^
00:05 RealBadAngel steady 60fps even with minimap on and relief mapping
00:06 RealBadAngel which is most expensive feature in our shaders
00:06 hmmmm yup, as I suspected...
00:06 hmmmm it's 43fcfbf
00:07 RealBadAngel whats that?
00:07 hmmmm git show 43fcfbf
00:07 hmmmm RealBadAngel, have you ever tried this http://aras-p.info/blog/2010/09/29/glsl-optimizer/ ?
00:08 RealBadAngel shaders?
00:08 RealBadAngel do you actually use parallax mapping?
00:08 hmmmm nope
00:08 hmmmm I have all fancy graphics settings disabled
00:08 RealBadAngel so how can parallax mapping can be a regression for you?
00:09 hmmmm because maybe other things modified in the shaders that don't have to do with parallax mapping slowed down rendering
00:10 RealBadAngel what is your GPU and drivers
00:10 RealBadAngel this time i want straight answer
00:10 RealBadAngel im still fighting with that the same code works differently (or doesnt work at all) on different gpus
00:12 RealBadAngel hmmm, also i have fixed some issues in shaders for AMD gpus in last commit
00:12 hmmmm why do my drivers matter
00:12 hmmmm it clearly has nothing at all to do with drivers
00:12 RealBadAngel can you check if that has any effect for you?
00:12 hmmmm it works on one commit, it doesn't work on another commit
00:13 hmmmm my drivers didn't magically change while bisecting
00:13 RealBadAngel do you understand when im sayin some thing can work on nvidia and doesnt work on amd for example?
00:13 RealBadAngel why the fuck you cant answer a question what gpu do you have?
00:14 hmmmm i'm not using your fancy graphics at all
00:14 RealBadAngel damn it
00:14 hmmmm you're just trying to use drivers as an excuse
00:14 hmmmm that's why i'm not answering
00:14 RealBadAngel GPU brand
00:14 RealBadAngel open gl version
00:14 RealBadAngel etc
00:15 RealBadAngel how can i fix the issue for you if youre stubborn
00:15 hmmmm I don't really need you to fix the issue
00:15 hmmmm I'm working on it
00:15 hmmmm this sounds like another shitty excuse like the whole "oh this is only a problem for threads under AMD cpus" - wtf?
00:15 RealBadAngel when Krock had issue with amd and opengl 2.1 i spent a few hours with him online to fix it
00:15 RealBadAngel and i fixed that
00:16 RealBadAngel but you cant even answer a simple question
00:16 RealBadAngel im not a houdini to ask what can be wrong on your side :P
00:16 RealBadAngel *to know
00:18 RealBadAngel also as i said, the code you suspect to be a reason for a slowdown has been already changed
00:18 est31 but the regression is still there
00:19 RealBadAngel did hmmm checked today's commits?
00:20 RealBadAngel its really hard to develop shaders that will work for all gpus around
00:20 RealBadAngel and keeping mouth shut but complaing doesnt help that at all
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00:22 RealBadAngel also that really might be possible ive already eliminated that regression
00:23 RealBadAngel amd compilers treat ifdefs differently than nvidia
00:24 RealBadAngel thats why im not any longer checking if something is defined but a variable's value
00:24 est31 what the fuck
00:24 RealBadAngel that could be possible that hmmm had autogeneration enabled thx to that
00:25 RealBadAngel and that feature is costly
00:26 RealBadAngel est31, what?
00:27 est31 compilers treating ifdefs differently
00:27 est31 stupid compilers
00:27 est31 isnt this a well defined standard
00:27 RealBadAngel amd vs nvidia
00:27 RealBadAngel its not
00:28 RealBadAngel thats why for example Krock had bumpmapping enabled
00:28 RealBadAngel while there were no def for that in shaders code
00:29 RealBadAngel amd happily compiled the code pissing on ifdef
00:29 hmmmm (44, 23, -29, yaw=93)    |   d105bf2: noshaders: 30/13 FPS, shaders: 20/9 FPS      |     43fcfbf: noshaders: 23/8, shaders: 15/6 FPS
00:30 hmmmm alright, so it's not necessarily a shader problem
00:31 RealBadAngel in any case shaders should be faster than no shaders version
00:31 RealBadAngel hmmm please try my todays commit if it change anything for you
00:31 hmmmm RealBadAngel: the regression is even worse as of current HEAD
00:32 hmmmm RealBadAngel:  why do you keep doing this: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit​/43fcfbfe05578d7471d40c8c087fd04e24b264b5#d​iff-c2f90db5de8c33a259c27113939c63c5R1440
00:32 hmmmm what's with the tabs in place of spaces
00:32 hmmmm please fix your editor settings
00:34 RealBadAngel which line?
00:34 hmmmm the one i highlighted on github....
00:35 est31 yes I've noticed you doing it too
00:36 RealBadAngel ooops
00:36 hmmmm also who keeps doing postincrement on std::map iterators
00:37 hmmmm https://github.com/minetest/minetest/​blob/43fcfbfe05578d7471d40c8c087fd04e​24b264b5/src/mapblock_mesh.cpp#L1218   <---- wtf??
00:37 hmmmm in any case, I'm beginning to suspect the slowdown is caused by changing S3DVertex to S3DVertexTangents
00:37 hmmmm I trusted you when you said they were the same..
00:40 RealBadAngel idk what happens on your side, i dont even know your env
00:40 RealBadAngel so i cant help you at all
00:41 RealBadAngel what "wtf" ?
00:42 hmmmm the indentation is all messed up
00:42 hmmmm how could you look at that code and think everything is just fine and dandy
00:42 hmmmm sometimes I wonder what your code would look like if we didn't have code style guidelines...
00:43 RealBadAngel damn, its a bit too long
00:43 RealBadAngel its a few pages
00:43 RealBadAngel havent noticed that
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00:45 RealBadAngel hmmmm, if tangents were the reason you will get worse fps without shaders
00:46 RealBadAngel strip nodes shaders  to only final color blend and check
00:46 hmmmm there are literally no other functional changes to rendering with shaders disabled in that commit
00:46 hmmmm my common sense is telling me that has to be the reason
00:50 hmmmm hmm
00:50 hmmmm so for now I guess all I can really do is just disable shaders and suck up the difference in performance
00:51 hmmmm can't change it to use the old vertex format without messing up all the recent shader work
00:51 RealBadAngel what you should do is to check if you dont have special effects enabled thx to compilers
00:51 hmmmm ...what?
00:51 RealBadAngel you should remove their code from shaders and check clean shader
00:52 RealBadAngel you heard
00:52 est31 shaders are completely disabled
00:52 RealBadAngel noshaders: 30/13 FPS, shaders: 20/9 FPS
00:52 RealBadAngel i can see that you have better performance without shaders
00:53 RealBadAngel while it should be in different order
00:53 RealBadAngel game IS faster with shaders
00:53 VanessaE_mobile Shaders are always slower for me as well
00:53 hmmmm that has literally never been the case for me
00:54 hmmmm and i'm using a pretty generic graphics setup
00:54 hmmmm nvidia proprietary, a powerful, modern kepler card
00:56 RealBadAngel so you shouldnt be affected by amd issues, thats clear
00:58 hmmmm besides, I've mentioned several times before that my card is a GTX660
00:58 hmmmm ctrl+F in the logs
00:58 hmmmm i don't like repeating myself
00:59 RealBadAngel you could copy paste that not repeat ;)
01:00 RealBadAngel are you pretty sure that commit with tangents is the one from which you get regression?
01:00 VanessaE_mobile Hmmm like me you have a good setup that just insists on under performing in minetest
01:04 hmmmm buy a $180 video card, get 8 FPS on minetest
01:04 hmmmm sounds about right
01:04 hmmmm fwiw I totally understand why Kenney abandoned minetest and I would do the same
01:06 VanessaE_mobile Hmmmm did you see the screen shot I posted yesterday ?
01:06 hmmmm no, what
01:07 VanessaE_mobile http://digitalaudioconcepts.com/vane​ssa/hobbies/minetest/screenshots/11-​client-screenshot---2015-07-02.png
01:08 VanessaE_mobile This.  Note the total fps across all 11 instances running there
01:08 VanessaE_mobile Around 300 (est)
01:09 RealBadAngel hmmmm, kenney wanted to use skyboxes for example. the way c55 implemented it wasnt good for him
01:10 RealBadAngel if you ask for the reasons
01:10 est31 also he didnt like formspecs
01:10 est31 the engine was too restrictive to him
01:11 RealBadAngel "fuck this, it has formspecs! im leavin!" indeed a good reason
01:11 RealBadAngel maybe we shall all leave then :P
01:11 est31 heh
01:12 VanessaE_mobile bbl
01:13 VanessaE_mobile (I'll see the rest on my pc later)
01:15 RealBadAngel hmmmm, ive compared your gpu to mine, yours is slightly faster
01:15 RealBadAngel you should be getting at least the same results as i do
01:16 RealBadAngel btw, what CPU do you have?
01:16 hmmmm irrelevant
01:16 hmmmm you don't even know what scene I was using to benchmark
01:17 RealBadAngel im trying to find the differences in setups
01:17 RealBadAngel hmmm i dont remember seeing such low framerates even on dreambuilder world
01:18 RealBadAngel so your scene doesnt matter
01:18 RealBadAngel you dont have propably scenes to stress tests the gpu as im using
01:19 hmmmm what does matter though, is that I was as consistent as possible throughout my own benchmarking
01:19 RealBadAngel ok
01:19 hmmmm the relative difference in framerates is what matters
01:21 RealBadAngel can you give me seed for the world you are testing?
01:21 RealBadAngel so i can check the same scen
01:23 RealBadAngel btw, what compile options are you using?
01:23 Niebieski What's an open source .x .b3d file editor/creator ?
01:23 RealBadAngel blender
01:24 Niebieski for some reason it's site is not opening for me.
01:24 RealBadAngel it can import/export in those formats
01:24 RealBadAngel sudo apt-get install blender
01:24 Niebieski Oh.
01:25 Niebieski is there an other variant that is less in size ?
01:25 RealBadAngel idk
01:26 Niebieski Alright thanks.
01:26 RealBadAngel and blender.org doesnt seems to be down
01:26 Niebieski Trust me it's always down for me from a very long time.
01:27 RealBadAngel i just checked it, works
01:27 Niebieski It's very weird, it keeps connecting to the site but nothing shows up.
01:27 RealBadAngel hmmmm, can you give me the seed?
01:29 est31 RealBadAngel, if hmmmm sais thre regression shows up when he's looking at A WALL then the seed doesnt matter at all
01:29 est31 the*
01:29 RealBadAngel then what for he gave us coords and yaw?
01:30 RealBadAngel so we should build a wall at given coords?
01:31 RealBadAngel if something works perfectly on one box and fails on the other imho we shall find what differs those boxes
01:31 RealBadAngel that should find locating the reason
01:32 est31 RealBadAngel, hmmmm is very competent, and working right now on a fix
01:43 hmmmm :\
01:43 hmmmm I don't know how I can possibly fix this without screwing other things up too in the process
01:43 hmmmm at least I see the problem
01:43 RealBadAngel hmmmm, yes?
01:44 RealBadAngel whats that?
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02:26 hmmmm est31:  I am not able to replicate it looking at the *ground*, which is a better indicator of clipping almost all blocks
02:26 hmmmm looking at a wall and having the FPS sag is an indication that the occlusion culling algorithm blows
02:30 est31 ok
02:36 hmmmm I don't think that minetest is ready for a release in a month
02:36 hmmmm does anybody else feel the same way?
02:36 hmmmm we should fix all the issues on our plate that we know about and can actually do something about, before we think about releasing
02:42 hmmmm at current HEAD, that scene is 13/5 with shaders
02:45 est31 hmmmm, define those issues
02:45 est31 there is already a list here https://github.com/minetest​/minetest/milestones/0.4.13
02:45 est31 you can fill in the further issues
02:46 hmmmm ok sure
02:46 hmmmm the static object stored in block bug
02:46 hmmmm the multiplayer avatar texture wrap bug
02:46 hmmmm the massive performance regression
02:47 est31 ?
02:47 hmmmm the more recent performance regression too
02:47 est31 lets hope thats fixed today
02:47 hmmmm hahahahahaha.
02:47 hmmmm not a chance.
02:48 est31 and what other massive perf regression do you speak about
02:48 est31 also with "static object stored in block bug" do you mean the ghost entity problem, and that players get removed?
02:49 hmmmm it's not as large as the first one, but there's an /even further drop in performance/ sometime after 43fcfbf
02:49 hmmmm est31, yeah
02:49 est31 thats a very hard one
02:50 est31 you cant reproduce it without making your CPU get 100% for a couple of seconds
02:50 est31 this makes debugging with valgrind impossible
02:50 hmmmm HEAD no shaders: 23/8
02:50 hmmmm alright
02:50 hmmmm the second performance regression is shaders only
02:50 hmmmm the first one is no doubt related to the S3DVertexTangets
02:51 hmmmm i think it might be a smart idea to first try running the shaders through a GLSL optimizer
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03:09 est31 neoastetic has raised the request to disable minimap on their server
03:10 est31 and we should perhaps allow i
03:10 est31 t
03:10 est31 one way to do it would make the client ignore minimap related textures for client side texture packs
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03:10 hmmmm or you could include the minimap as part of the hud
03:11 hmmmm disable-able through the api
03:11 est31 that sounds good too
03:15 hmmmm https://github.com/kwolekr/minetest/commit​/7b171ea2be0e476d7cdc9300b53ba86a9f694161
03:15 hmmmm pushing in 5 minutes
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03:20 est31 reading
03:20 est31 please dont push while i do
03:20 est31 so you want to enforce the style for single lined methods too?
03:21 est31 like { FATAL_ERROR("FIXME"); }
03:21 est31 because I've seen it in the test framework too
03:21 hmmmm whoops
03:21 hmmmm too late, it's been past 5 minutes
03:22 hmmmm don't like it?  well I thought that's the way it works around here
03:22 hmmmm that's the way things seem to be going
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03:32 est31 hmmmm, youve pushed after I've asked you to wait
03:32 est31 thats not nice
03:32 est31 even after youve said "too late"
03:33 hmmmm maybe you and the rest of the people who are guilty of it should drop this "pushing in 5 minutes" bullshit
03:33 est31 hmmmm, do what instead?
03:33 hmmmm wait for approval
03:33 est31 make a PR where I have to get 3 core devs to agree?
03:33 hmmmm minetest isn't going to spontaneously combust if you don't push some trivial thing within 5 minutes
03:33 est31 for a single line commit
03:34 hmmmm how about 30 minutes
03:34 est31 its hard to wait for approval if nobody is around
03:34 est31 your PR then rots for weeks
03:34 hmmmm well then maybe you should wait for people to be around
03:35 hmmmm nonsense, it only rots if people are actively pushing code
03:35 hmmmm if people are actively pushing code, then in theory, they should be on IRC or somewhere you could get in touch with them
03:38 est31 you can get in touch with me
03:38 est31 I always check irc before I push after 5 minutes
03:39 hmmmm can we agree on extending it to something like 30 minutes?
03:40 est31 what bout 15
03:40 hmmmm if you're going to negotiate with me i should've started at 60
03:40 est31 sn has requested a 15 minute move too
03:40 est31 hehe
03:40 hmmmm if i knew you were going to*
03:40 hmmmm nope, 60 minute waiting period, firm
03:40 hmmmm take it or leave it
03:41 hmmmm i can go down to 55 because you seem like a nice guy
03:41 hmmmm 55 is the best i can do
03:42 est31 17 not a second more
03:43 hmmmm lemme call up my buddy who knows all about SCM merge waiting periods.
03:43 est31 ?
03:43 hmmmm pawn stars
03:51 hmmmm https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wc32_VHXMU0
03:52 est31 heh
03:57 hmmmm I think we could generalize Mapper for things other than the minimap
03:57 est31 like
03:58 hmmmm map preview before creating a world
03:59 hmmmm dumping an image of a map from the command line
04:36 VanessaE [07-02 22:26] <hmmmm> looking at a wall and having the FPS sag is an indication that the occlusion culling algorithm blows
04:36 VanessaE I've been saying this for like 2 years now
04:37 hmmmm oh believe me, i know about it too
04:37 hmmmm but everybody is more concerned about flashy new features than fixing what we already have
04:37 VanessaE so it would seem.
04:39 hmmmm and then we need to work on fixing the new features' problems
04:39 kaeza since we are talking about graphics, anybody else having this problem? http://i.imgur.com/VM4axoy.png
04:40 hmmmm no
04:40 kaeza (notice the red nodes at the bottom)
04:40 hmmmm are you an ATi user?
04:40 kaeza no, Intel
04:40 kaeza it only happens at certain angles
04:41 VanessaE that reminds me:
04:41 kaeza it didn't happen a month or so ago, if that helps anything
04:41 kaeza guess I'll have to bisect :/
04:41 VanessaE water (and other) alpha switching between "normal" and fully opaque depending on view angle needs fixed.  badly.
04:42 VanessaE it'll even sit there vacillating while the pause menu is open
04:42 hmmmm Kaeza, I would recommend you start at 43fcfbf
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05:05 kaeza hmmmm, the previous commit to that one works; I'm now building 43fcfbf
05:05 kaeza I wish `make -j3` worked :/
05:06 kaeza it just locks up the whole shell window while doing nothing (I blame mingw32-make)
05:10 kaeza hmmmm, I can confirm that 43fcfbf broke this
05:10 hmmmm :) figures.. redirect complaints to RealBadAngel I guess
05:11 kaeza well, you just saved me the work of pinging him ;)
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06:32 kaeza http://i.imgur.com/RN5JmlH.png :(
06:33 est31 kaeza, might be a regression cheapie pointed out
06:34 est31 #2815
06:34 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2815 -- Texture corruption
06:34 cheapie No, the one I pointed out is the broken textures when that parallax thingy is on. RBA insists it isn't broken.
06:34 est31 that means nothing
06:35 est31 usually RBA either insists it isnt a bug or its your drivers
06:35 cheapie At any rate, kaeza's problem seems to be related to shaders failing for some reason (causing the red).
06:36 est31 kaeza, which commit do you run?
06:36 kaeza est31, see #-dev logs
06:36 kaeza specifically: <kaeza> h_mmmm, I can confirm that 43fcfbf broke this
06:37 est31 does it work on latest master
06:37 kaeza no
06:37 est31 I'm sorry if i sound like rba but his last commit did some fixes to shaders
06:38 kaeza I'm at d75009a75853bd188f132e93165622c5e1315f70 ("Add android tools environment to gitignore")
06:38 kaeza eh that is maybe old
06:38 est31 try more recent
06:38 est31 yea
06:45 kaeza est31, nope, still happens on HEAD
06:46 kaeza (now at 7b171ea2be0e476d7cdc9300b53ba86a9f694161 "Fix code style from recent commits and add misc. optimizations")
06:49 est31 ok
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08:20 rubenwardy RealBadAngel reminds me of this: http://thatwasfunny.com/top​-20-programmers-excuses/239
08:21 rubenwardy :P
08:21 rubenwardy I'm just testing to see if I can see a regression
08:21 rubenwardy I also share hmmmm's viewpoint. http://irc.minetest.ru/minet​est-dev/2015-07-02#i_4306698
08:27 rubenwardy Irrlicht log: 0:111(24): preprocessor error: syntax error, unexpected EQUAL
08:28 rubenwardy 2015-07-03 09:26:43: ERROR[main]: generate_shader(): failed to generate "nodes_shader", addHighLevelShaderMaterial failed.
08:28 rubenwardy https://gist.github.com/rube​nwardy/d4a4b1edf1d239b450e7
08:28 RealBadAngel kaeza, i assume youre using shaders, yes?
08:29 RealBadAngel i need to make simplified version of the shaders for opengl 2.1 like kaeza have
08:29 kaeza RealBadAngel, https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2866 (relevant system info there)
08:29 rubenwardy I have opengl 2.1 too
08:30 RealBadAngel 2.1 have 512 instuctions limit per one fragment shader
08:31 RealBadAngel i will have to disable relief mapping for example in order to run shaders on 2.1
08:32 rubenwardy I have 55-60 FPS staring into a wall with chunks loaded behind it, shaders enabled, but paralax, normal mapping, etc off.
08:32 kaeza RealBadAngel, yes, "shaders" checkbox only; nothing else
08:34 RealBadAngel kaeza, do you got any errors in console?
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08:36 kaeza nothing interesting: https://gist.github.com/kaeza/266ec9246f53f292daff
08:39 Hunterz hi RealBadAngel, pls add new feature to minimap: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2868
08:40 VanessaE "The site ahead contains harmful programs"
08:40 Hunterz lol
08:41 kaeza RealBadAngel, I got this on debug: https://gist.github.com/kaeza/a8386f26b0242670d675
08:43 RealBadAngel kaeza, thats normal, we dont use any geometry shaders
08:43 kaeza oh ok then
08:45 RealBadAngel Hunterz, add them in overlay texture for minimap. Its texture pack stuff.
08:45 VanessaE RealBadAngel: actually I think those are HUD elements.
08:45 RealBadAngel VanessaE, you already made a texture with one direction, "N"
08:46 VanessaE RealBadAngel: yeah but that was hard-coded into an image.  I think what Hunterz is talking about is HUD text overlays that are always upright
08:47 RealBadAngel Hunterz, does VanessaE know what are you thinkin about?
08:48 Hunterz i think about characters with world directions like North, South...
08:49 Hunterz when rotate map, rotate characters too
08:49 est31 thats already doable now
08:49 est31 just change the texture
08:49 est31 make a texture pack
08:50 RealBadAngel VanessaE, can you hand Hunterz that texture you made?
08:51 RealBadAngel i need to reboot, brb
08:53 kilbith https://github.com/minetest/minetest_​game/pull/550#issuecomment-117806901
08:53 kilbith err...
08:53 kilbith it's too late to implement enet now, release is in one month
08:54 est31 we can do that after the release or in a separate branch
08:54 est31 nrz should fix some of his bugs though
08:54 VanessaE [07-02 22:36] <hmmmm> I don't think that minetest is ready for a release in a month
08:55 kilbith sapier already did a branch with enet
08:55 kilbith but none has relayed this
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08:56 est31 VanessaE, with your creative map, is there a way to provoke the ghost entity bug?
08:56 VanessaE est31: usually just signing on in the spawn area is enough
08:57 VanessaE make sure your items-per-block limit is sufficiently high
08:57 kilbith or dropping large areas of sand/gravel is usually enough for reproducing it
08:57 est31 is it right after you join, or do you have to stall there?
08:57 VanessaE est31: right after you join.
08:58 VanessaE kilbith: interestingly I was not able to reproduce the same results as the live server, though the errors DID happen.  they just weren't "active" the way the server is.
08:59 est31 VanessaE, well I think hmms main concern is stability
09:00 est31 once the bugs are fixed, we can release
09:00 VanessaE perhaps/
09:00 est31 if it were hmms descision, 0.4.12 wouldnt be released
09:00 VanessaE but depending on who you ask, there's a shitton of bugs to fix..
09:00 est31 we would still have 0.4.11
09:00 kilbith ^
09:01 VanessaE well to be fair, I wouldn't have let 0.4.12 out the door either, were the decision solely up to me.
09:01 kilbith i think it's matter of paradigm somehow
09:01 est31 the two texture regressions are RealBadAngel's responsibility I think
09:04 est31 and 0.4.12 was a "bugfix" release
09:04 RealBadAngel est "two texture regression" ? whats that?
09:05 est31 #2815 and #2866
09:05 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2815 -- Texture corruption
09:05 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2866 -- Graphical regression.
09:05 RealBadAngel first of all i need to detect what opengl version client is using, and if its <3.0  enable kinda "lite" version of shaders
09:06 est31 you think one of the issues is caused by that?
09:06 RealBadAngel 2815 is caused by parallax mapping, thats flaw of all displacement mapping algorithms
09:06 RealBadAngel havent found any workaround for that since really its not a bug
09:07 RealBadAngel i do have an idea how to make it insvisible tho, i need to add dynamic offset to the texture that will depend on view angle
09:08 RealBadAngel est31, https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/c​lient/shaders/nodes_shader/opengl_vertex.glsl#L38
09:09 est31 ok
09:09 RealBadAngel 2866 is what i said just above, its opengl 2.1 and too few instructions per fragment shader
09:09 RealBadAngel so lite shaders are needed
09:09 RealBadAngel remember what i said about unrolling loops?
09:10 RealBadAngel thats the cause
09:10 RealBadAngel shader may not look like 512 instructions at all
09:11 RealBadAngel i learned that when fixing amd issues for krock
09:12 RealBadAngel loop with 4 steps compiled ok, with 5 thrown error Fragment Shader not supported by HW
09:14 RealBadAngel so, for <3.0 i will make separate folder with lite shaders with only basic funcionality.
09:26 kilbith so is there a real performance benefit to switch the stairs in meshnode ?
09:32 RealBadAngel yes
09:33 RealBadAngel less vertices to handle
09:36 RealBadAngel atm stair made out of nodeboxes have 16 vertices, meshnode would have 12 vertices
09:36 kilbith because of that i guess : https://lut.im/KlSTVki3/sTKX4GDA
09:37 kilbith but it's not a huge difference
09:37 RealBadAngel exactly
09:37 RealBadAngel yes it is
09:38 RealBadAngel stair is a common used node, when you have lotsa of them number will grow to pretty huge
09:38 kilbith right
09:39 RealBadAngel ive seen already somewhere rdy object for that
09:39 RealBadAngel im just not sure if it had uv mapping done
09:39 kilbith i can do that in 10 min
09:39 RealBadAngel so please do it, but take care of proper uv mapping of the textures
09:40 RealBadAngel as for stair with facedir = 0
09:40 kilbith uv mapping on that is pretty trivial really
09:41 RealBadAngel i know, just pointing the fact :)
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10:02 kilbith 0.9 KB with a simple uv-map
10:02 kilbith not bad
10:18 kilbith also i switched the bed in mesh : https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/pull/486
10:18 kilbith but PilzAdam & BlockMen were against
10:19 kilbith there was some valid points but a bit fatfetched
10:19 kilbith *farfetched
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10:26 RealBadAngel kilbith, as i can see in case of beds placement problems wasnt correctly resolved
10:28 kilbith the reason was that the top was not registered internally and thus falling nodes could be merged with it
10:28 kilbith the top is "ghost" node
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10:29 kilbith although i could convert the top & bottom nodes separately
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10:34 RealBadAngel kilbith, that could be a solution
10:35 kilbith but you don't have smooth lighting on the whole bed surface in this way
10:35 kilbith unlike one node
10:50 kilbith mesh stairs done : https://lut.im/fN6ltjLy/CmZJ5BQQ
11:03 RealBadAngel can you make a screenshot with highlighted stair?
11:03 Calinou is the texturing the same as before?
11:04 Calinou make sure the textures are not rotated
11:07 kilbith textures are strictly the same yes
11:07 kilbith the UV-map is projection from view respecting bounding
11:08 kilbith https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/pull/551
11:08 kilbith ^ sfan5
11:08 sfan5 looks good
11:09 RealBadAngel kilbith, can you?
11:09 kilbith yes
11:11 kilbith RealBadAngel, https://lut.im/V8emWc1Y/RgH6jnHM
11:11 RealBadAngel you have put that stairs on snow, highlighting is almost invisible :)
11:11 RealBadAngel please put it on something darker, and make screenie from a bit closer
11:11 kilbith will try on dirt
11:12 kilbith else you can pull my PR
11:13 kilbith RealBadAngel, https://lut.im/v5ZdmAuu/OUG52JfN
11:14 RealBadAngel i will try the PR, highlightin is still flawed, propably due to selection box
11:15 kilbith highlighting is a mesh ?
11:15 kilbith half-transparency is flawed pretty much everywhere
11:27 RealBadAngel it doesnt use regular transparency
11:29 RealBadAngel selection is defined the same way as nodebox was
11:29 RealBadAngel so it has same problem as the model
11:30 RealBadAngel with meshnode you should remove selection box def
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11:31 RealBadAngel hmzz, im not sure what will happen then :) propably whole cube
11:31 RealBadAngel need to test it
11:31 RealBadAngel or code getting actual mesh into selection one
11:32 kilbith no if delete the selection_box, you get a whole cube selection
11:34 RealBadAngel ok, then let it stay as is. i need to code copyin the mesh
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11:36 est31 Warr1024, seems I want to use an R-tree of one of its variants
11:37 kilbith proller says there's a small mem leak with the minimap
11:37 RealBadAngel he said where?
11:37 kilbith PM
11:38 est31 ?
11:38 kilbith "maybe only on closing game"
11:38 kilbith https://github.com/freeminer/freeminer/comm​it/cff451c6f9e9ee046aec906df16b47a9adf42d85
11:40 RealBadAngel hes wrong
11:40 RealBadAngel minimap mapblocks get deleted elsewhere
11:41 RealBadAngel he propably screwed things deleting the data in client.cpp
11:41 est31 if (m_minimap_mapblock) delete m_minimap_mapblock; <---- the if isnt needed here
11:41 est31 delete NULL is harmless
11:41 est31 == does nothing
11:42 RealBadAngel runtime blocks are deleted here: https://github.com/minetest/minete​st/blob/master/src/minimap.cpp#L74
11:42 RealBadAngel and here on shutdown: https://github.com/minetest/minetes​t/blob/master/src/minimap.cpp#L135
11:43 RealBadAngel prollers code is obsolete
11:43 est31 lol he even added an if (data) where I said to RealBadAngel before it wasnt needed
11:44 RealBadAngel that comes from lua, there you have to check if it exists in the first place
11:45 est31 https://github.com/minetest/minete​st/pull/2814#discussion_r33005742
11:45 RealBadAngel and is the most common reason for mods crashes
11:45 est31 https://github.com/minetest/minete​st/pull/2814#discussion_r33005692
11:45 est31 ok
11:46 est31 everyday some new thing to learn
11:46 est31 I myself learnt that from kwolekr
11:48 est31 we can call porting::threadSetPriority();
11:48 est31 thats perhaps a good addition
11:48 est31 but I dunno about these things
11:48 est31 lets wait what hmmmm sais
11:49 kilbith *says
11:51 est31 dammit youre right
11:55 RealBadAngel for disabling minimap on server simple mod that will always set enable_minimap to false should do the trick
11:56 RealBadAngel thats btw
11:56 est31 ewww
11:56 est31 we should perhaps do some #ifdef here
11:56 Calinou suddenly: modified client
11:57 RealBadAngel indeed
11:57 RealBadAngel but anyway i plan to add lua interface to control minimap anyways
11:57 RealBadAngel so it could be possible to make minimap craftable item etc
11:58 est31 yea
11:58 RealBadAngel or change the minimap look, position and the like
11:58 RealBadAngel this way server will be able to control it for sure
11:58 est31 one should perhaps be abled to display it in formspecs, and in hud
11:58 RealBadAngel but atm its not highest priority task
11:59 RealBadAngel now i have shitload of things to tweak
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12:08 Hunterz is there any mod, that add map like in the minecraft using paper and compass ?
12:09 kilbith Hunterz, better to ask in #minetest please
12:09 Hunterz ok
12:10 Hunterz RealBadAngel: do you plan add some kind of waypoints and show them on the minimap?
12:10 Calinou that would be amazing, would bury Rei's minimap forever :P
12:11 RealBadAngel i do plan add there waypoints (theyre already implemented in game) and position of players
12:11 Hunterz reis minimap was wery best map
12:11 Calinou player positions? great for hunger games :)
12:11 Hunterz position of player please controlled by server
12:11 Hunterz fair play on the pvp for example
12:12 RealBadAngel Hunterz, any server controls will come with lua api for minimap
12:12 Hunterz nice
12:12 Calinou you can already see player names anyway
12:12 Calinou I guess any visible player on world will be visible on minimap, that makes sense
12:12 est31 RealBadAngel, perhaps we should add player display the same time we add the lua api
12:12 Calinou but please do add a toggle, in case it becomes too crowded (eg. spawn area)
12:13 Calinou est31, yes there needs a way to make some players fully invisible
12:13 Calinou eg. "Vanish"
12:13 Hunterz visibility of nicknames will be fine controlled by server too
12:13 Hunterz something like tagapi in the bukkit
12:15 Hunterz btw tested latest code and minimap load all chunks around, perfect...
12:16 est31 hrmm
12:17 est31 there exists a pure c++ R* tree implementation on github
12:17 * est31 wonders whether we should implement an R* tree ourselves
12:17 est31 most likely that will trigger ugly bugs though
12:19 Calinou don't reinvent the wheel :)
12:19 est31 implementing an R* tree is non-trivial thatsfor sure
12:20 est31 and from this image you see, R-tree is shit https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R*_tree#Performance
12:36 est31 the lib even has an ubuntu package
12:36 est31 this is a good candidate for an optional dependency
12:36 est31 if its there, use it, if not, use a vector instead
12:38 Calinou how about linking the dependency statically?
12:39 est31 ?
12:41 est31 linking statically has nothing to do with optional dependencies
12:41 est31 its more about "
12:41 est31 how hard do I rely on it"
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15:08 RealBadAngel hmmmm, here?
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18:22 RealBadAngel i think i minimalized displacement mapping texture flaw
18:22 RealBadAngel it is still visible from very close distance, but hardly
18:23 paramat a PR for re-enabling ravines in mgv7 but now applied to large caves #2870
18:23 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2870 -- Mgv7: Enable large cave ravines by paramat
18:24 RealBadAngel https://imgrush.com/4YAAYbN1TIqR.png
18:24 RealBadAngel and https://imgrush.com/A9mArp4nC8DP
18:25 RealBadAngel i cant do anything more for non tiling textures without deforming the displacement effect
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18:38 RealBadAngel even with this, theres slight deformation is certain cases
18:38 RealBadAngel thx to fastfaces and same faces mergeing
19:02 paramat in the close-up screenshot, the rear line of grass pixels is at an angle to the node behind it, that looks bad to me (might be an acceptable cost to some players, personally i don't use shaders)
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19:14 hmmmm I feel as if the minimap update was pushed before it was ready
19:14 hmmmm est31 seems too overly eager to approve things
19:16 hmmmm I think it'd be a good idea to either increase the number of core developer approvals for a major commit, or perhaps removing the "workaround" to +1 your own commit
19:17 hmmmm there are just sooo many things to do here
19:17 hmmmm ugh I wanted to spend my time/effort elsewhere, but if this doesn't get fixed now it'll become forgotten
19:29 hmmmm why on earth does the minimap use a mesh buffer anyway
19:35 sfan5 you can approve your own commits?
19:36 RealBadAngel hmmmm, it uses mesh to display minimap
19:36 RealBadAngel mesh can be easily rotated
19:37 hmmmm sfan5:  you can't, but that's the popular interpretation that RealBadAngel and est31 seem to have picked up
19:37 hmmmm it's like any gray areas in rules are exploited so that they can push their commit through faster
19:37 hmmmm and with less oversight and more bugs
19:37 kilbith « You can push something to upstream [1] only if two members of the core team [2] or the subsystem maintainer agrees on it »
19:38 kilbith extract of the rules
19:39 RealBadAngel hmmmm, and what again do you have against minimap?
19:40 hmmmm just trying to completely understand everything
19:40 hmmmm all the design decisions involved
19:40 hmmmm i think the basis of the minimap is fantastic
19:40 RealBadAngel then just ask
19:40 hmmmm i can generalize this and make into more than just "that minimap thing at the top right of the screen"
19:41 RealBadAngel i do have further plans with minimap
19:41 RealBadAngel its mapper, it can be used for other things
19:41 hmmmm so what's the point of the MinimapData structure?
19:41 hmmmm it seems to me like all the members in there really should be memberes of Mapper
19:42 RealBadAngel theyre shared between two classes
19:43 RealBadAngel i didnt wanted them to be either private, public or whatever. theyre just in common structure
19:43 hmmmm what is "radar"
19:43 Calinou the cave radar
19:44 RealBadAngel best way to understand it is to try it
19:44 hmmmm I know what it is, but I want to know in your own words what the member MinimapData::radar is supposed to represent
19:44 RealBadAngel dot on minimap gets more green the more air is found in the scan column
19:45 RealBadAngel its bool
19:45 RealBadAngel what it can be if not on/off ?
19:45 hmmmm that doesn't answer the question of what it's supposed to represent
19:45 celeron55 >come and look what's going on in #minetest-dev
19:45 celeron55 >that's bool
19:45 celeron55 :D
19:46 celeron55 keep up the good work i guess
19:46 hmmmm save your eyes, don't bother looking in here.
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19:47 * VanessaE peeks in
19:47 RealBadAngel talks why i named a variable like that are rather not productive
19:47 VanessaE (my eyes are already shot, so looking in here should be safe :P )
19:47 RealBadAngel and thats has nothing to do with either coding style and quality of the code
19:47 hmmmm what if I started writing really shitty code
19:48 hmmmm code that works but sucks, has lots of race conditions and memory leaks, and i named all my variables 'a' 'b' and 'c' and so on
19:48 RealBadAngel name "radar" is shitty?
19:48 hmmmm when somebody asks me what "float c" is, I'll say
19:48 hmmmm it's a float
19:48 RealBadAngel its not called "r" :P
19:48 hmmmm it could be a decimal value
19:48 hmmmm it's pretty vague
19:49 RealBadAngel now , please point what sucks in minimap, where are race conditions and the leaks
19:49 hmmmm I'm fixing them
19:49 hmmmm don't bother
19:49 RealBadAngel and a, b , c etc variables
19:49 hmmmm yea
19:50 hmmmm and then when somebody tells me, "hey, you shouldn't name your variable c, that's confusing!" i'll respond with: "just try it out, it works!"
19:50 hmmmm and then when there's a problem with it I'll say:
19:50 hmmmm "what version is your driver?"
19:51 VanessaE troll.... :P
19:51 hmmmm "that could be the problem, try updating your drivers"
19:51 hmmmm "oh the problem is that you have an AMD cpu"
19:51 hmmmm "AMD cpus aren't good with threads"
19:51 hmmmm christ
19:51 RealBadAngel laugh, but thats sadly true, i have to ask such questions
19:51 RealBadAngel because same code can work on nvidia, and refuse to work on amd
19:52 RealBadAngel and i dont have amd to test it
19:52 hmmmm you asked me what graphics card I'm using after I already proved the problem was not in the shaders.
19:52 VanessaE if you have to ask such questions, RealBadAngel, then you need to also ask, "Is it failing for you (VanE, hmmmm) because I (RBA) am using nVidia-specific extensions in my code?"
19:52 RealBadAngel atm im forced to prepare special shaders only for AMD
19:52 RealBadAngel because i cant make it work for both in the same file
19:53 RealBadAngel read what i just wrote
19:53 RealBadAngel i have to make separate shaders for amd and nvidia
19:54 VanessaE that's not the same thing.
19:54 hmmmm and you never fixed the wieldhand shader
19:54 hmmmm btw
19:54 hmmmm just pointing that out
19:54 RealBadAngel what?
19:54 RealBadAngel do we HAVE wieldhand shader?
19:54 hmmmm nope
19:54 hmmmm that's the issue
19:55 hmmmm i had to disable the shader material for wieldhands because you never implemented that part
19:55 RealBadAngel i wanted to make it but it was rejected
19:55 VanessaE RealBadAngel: what I mean is not #ifdef's that only work on one driver but not another (like the parallax/bumpmapping problem you and I had to work out).  I mean code that is explicitly using some feature that only works on nVidia because it's an nVidia-specific vendor extension
19:55 RealBadAngel same as proper extruded items etc
19:55 hmmmm well, then, why was it rejected
19:56 RealBadAngel VanessaE, main problem is that i dont have amd to test the code before
19:56 RealBadAngel hmmmm, it worked
19:57 VanessaE RealBadAngel: too bad I can't just lend you my spare HD6870 :P
19:57 RealBadAngel but what was rejected it was fix to extrusion code
19:57 hmmmm just because code works doesn't mean it's ready to be part of the codebase for everybody else
19:57 RealBadAngel and it was necesary for wielded shader to work
19:57 hmmmm you need to begin understanding this
19:57 hmmmm "works"
19:57 hmmmm works in your very limited set of test cases
19:57 hmmmm i'm sorry, that's a scrappy way of coding
19:58 hmmmm "it works therefore I merge"
19:58 hmmmm any criticism is responded to with "just try it out, see that it works and it makes neat effects"
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19:58 RealBadAngel im not design studio with hardware base to test all cases
19:58 RealBadAngel sorry bout that :P
19:59 hmmmm and 95% of bugs in your code are not due to hardware-specific issues
19:59 hmmmm you keep using that excuse when it's not warranted at all
20:01 RealBadAngel whatever, i wont be wasting time on just talkin, since two days im coding fixes for my issues
20:01 kilbith some bugs are present in OpenGL 4.4 that OpenGL 2.1 don't have (eg. wieldhand glitching)
20:02 RealBadAngel https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2866
20:03 RealBadAngel and believe it or not, its not my fault but the drivers :P
20:03 RealBadAngel opengl 2.1 is too old
20:03 VanessaE that's not a driver fault.
20:03 VanessaE that's a RealBadAngel fault :P
20:04 RealBadAngel sure :P
20:04 RealBadAngel i made 512 instruction limit for fragment shader
20:04 VanessaE well.  it worked.  you committed something.  it broke.   your fault :)
20:05 RealBadAngel for opengl 2.1 there will be set of lite shaders
20:05 RealBadAngel without advanced effects at all
20:05 RealBadAngel only final color blend, some geometry stuff, bumpmapping and nothing more
20:06 VanessaE inb4 RealBadAngel codes something that breaks on my GPU because my OpenGL version (4.4.13374) is too new or something :)
20:06 kilbith 5 years old GPU uses OpenGL 2.1 with mesa (which limits the latest features of OpenGL API)
20:06 kilbith it's not too old
20:07 RealBadAngel on 2.1 im not able to make parallax/relief mapping to work
20:07 VanessaE too old would, in my opinion, be trying to use a fancy new effect on some 15+ year old GPU
20:07 RealBadAngel with everything in, simply theres not enough instruction space
20:08 RealBadAngel and btw, im coding somethin and all i get now is just blaming me instead of help
20:08 RealBadAngel dont want my code so just say thx bye
20:09 RealBadAngel meanwhile im off for coding, have enough for today
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21:42 RealBadAngel VanessaE, not big mistake, opengl 2.1 is not 15 yrs old, its just 9 yrs old
21:43 VanessaE RealBadAngel: well you got the point :P
21:43 Taoki RealBadAngel: Any news on that pull request?
21:44 RealBadAngel im busy fixing issues right now
21:44 Taoki ok
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21:58 VanessaE got a new bug that I don't know the source of.  users are, very rarely, getting invisible, undefined, no-textured items into their inventories. don't know if unified inventory is at fault or if it's the engine.  The one user who reported it managed to give the item to me after a few tries.  the item shows up as "Item  65510" (with two spaces) in my player file.
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21:58 kilbith VanessaE, can you try this fix ? https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/2869
21:58 VanessaE if you mouse over it, there's no tooltip.  if you drop a stack of something on it, it swaps with the stack and there's nothing attached to the pointer.
22:00 OldCoder Hi. Starting today I have a mysterious crash every few minutes. No error messages or even segfault messages. Program simply exits.
22:00 paramat hi hmmmm here's a small commit for review #2875
22:01 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2875 -- Mgv7: Lower base of mountain generation to -112 and define constant by paramat
22:01 OldCoder I updated from 0.4 stable to git current. Problem still occurs. Also did clearobjects and vacuum.
22:01 OldCoder Hate the idea of reverting and problem may simply come back. What known issues cause silent exits without error messages or segfaults?
22:02 OldCoder Note: This is Lord of the Test. But the question is about the core software.
22:02 OldCoder FWIW git-current seems to work. Except for the silent crash persisting.
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22:04 kilbith try out with gdb maybe ?
22:04 RealBadAngel VanessaE, cant do anything better than that: https://imgrush.com/Gfc14n2Wn7t8.png
22:05 VanessaE RealBadAngel: looks fine to me I guess, as long as the textures don't slide around
22:05 VanessaE however I don't use parallax mode anyway so it won't bother me :P
22:07 kilbith RealBadAngel, the displacement is amplified on HD textures, how does this look with them ?
22:07 RealBadAngel hard to say
22:08 RealBadAngel it all depends on the heightmaps
22:08 kilbith look this huge displacement with a 64px texture : https://cloud.githubusercontent.com/assets/415827​/8275588/3bc239ce-186e-11e5-9ed5-419c2f09dcf1.png
22:08 RealBadAngel whats this texture>
22:08 kilbith from 'streets' mod
22:08 RealBadAngel does it have heightmap?
22:08 kilbith no
22:08 RealBadAngel or its autogen?
22:09 kilbith the screenshot is from cheapie
22:09 kilbith (and the mod is bundled with dreambuilder)
22:09 RealBadAngel i will try it
22:12 RealBadAngel no way
22:12 RealBadAngel im going to disable parallax mapping for non tileable textures
22:12 VanessaE ew.
22:13 VanessaE that texture is tilable but only in one direction..
22:13 RealBadAngel if you dont believe me ask uncle bout it, but stop calling the code corrupted or similiar
22:13 RealBadAngel parallax and relief mapping works on seamless textures
22:13 RealBadAngel period
22:15 RealBadAngel im going to add to nodedef fields that will describe the tiling. horizontal, vertical, seamless, none
22:15 VanessaE where did I call anything corrupted?
22:15 RealBadAngel its needed anyway for connected textures
22:15 OldCoder I think it's the network issue again
22:15 RealBadAngel you all have called it bug, textures corruption etc
22:16 VanessaE um
22:16 OldCoder con(5/1)RE-SENDING timed-out RELIABLE a million of these messages
22:16 VanessaE no, I didn't call it corrupted.
22:16 RealBadAngel i will also soon be blamed theres gravity on earth
22:16 VanessaE it IS a bug though if the textures slide around.
22:16 VanessaE but not if they're statically displaced.
22:16 RealBadAngel its not a fucking bug
22:16 RealBadAngel this is how parallax works
22:17 RealBadAngel check on wiki
22:17 OldCoder VanessaE, RealBadAngel, anybody; the RESEND RELIABLE error goes into a loop and overflows a stack, I think
22:17 OldCoder But it looks like somebody worked on this code
22:17 VanessaE RealBadAngel: parallax occlusion is not supposed to cause textures to slide around -- but I think you already fixed THAT problem anyway.
22:17 VanessaE the static displacement of textures is a different matter
22:17 OldCoder Same issue that shut down Silvercrab for a while
22:17 VanessaE and I don't think that's a bug at all.
22:17 RealBadAngel they do not slide
22:18 VanessaE all right, I give up
22:18 VanessaE no one's listening to me anyway
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23:26 VanessaE here's something new for you guys to ignore: #2877
23:26 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2877 -- Player files corrupting with "empty" items

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