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IRC log for #minetest-dev, 2015-07-04

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Time Nick Message
00:34 Tesseract joined #minetest-dev
00:39 OldCoder Comments please on http://minetest.org/crash.txt
00:44 VanessaE so... critical regression here and no one's gonna look at it?
00:55 * OldCoder relates
00:57 OldCoder VanessaE, any thoughts on that log? Sokomine, RealBadAngel >
00:57 OldCoder ? bbs
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04:32 VanessaE bump #2877
04:32 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2877 -- Player files corrupting with "blank" items
04:32 VanessaE for G*d sakes someone please take a look at this, it's fucking up player inventories in ways they can't fix
04:37 AnotherBrick looks like somehow items count is decreared below zero and since it's unsigned word you got something near 65535
04:37 VanessaE yeah but notice the blank spaces
04:37 VanessaE there's no item name
04:38 VanessaE afaik a mod can't do that
04:39 VanessaE and players are reporting items "disappearing" from inventories as well
04:39 VanessaE stuff that was there at one point, will be gone or reduced significantly the next time they login
04:39 AnotherBrick can it be caused by some bugged android client?
04:39 VanessaE I don't see how
04:40 VanessaE a client doesn't directly access/write a server's player file does it?
04:40 AnotherBrick it doesn't
04:43 AnotherBrick it might probably perhaps send inventory action, like "take 26 items for that cell and put there" and if nothing really in that cell and server perform that operation you'll got -26 = 65510 empty items
04:44 AnotherBrick i don't really know how that works, but it probably might perhaps be caused by similar scenario
04:44 VanessaE in which case the server ought to be denying the action I'd think
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05:22 cheapie AnotherBrick: But if you have 1, say, cobble, and you take away 2, you should then have 65535 /cobble/ instead of 65535 nothings, right?
05:22 AnotherBrick yeah, probably
05:23 AnotherBrick but if you have zero of nothing and takes one out, u'll got 65535 nothings
05:29 diemartin joined #minetest-dev
05:33 cheapie OK, so I guess we have two problems here.
05:34 cheapie Items are turning into nothing, and there's no underflow detection.
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06:49 VanessaE cheapie: I can reproduce my bug with vanilla minetest_game + gloopblocks (only used because it uses the replacements feature of the crafting grid)
06:49 VanessaE see the revised description
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09:27 crazyR could someone add a minetest.is_dir method to the engine so that we dont need to use os.execute() to do the checks
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09:36 TeTpaAka VanessaE, does #2878 fix the problem for you?
09:36 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2878 -- Fix missing check for 0 in craft replacements by TeTpaAka
09:37 VanessaE I have not tested it yet.
09:37 TeTpaAka Ok
09:38 VanessaE building it now.
09:41 VanessaE TeTpaAka: that seems to have fixed it.
09:41 TeTpaAka Good.
09:41 VanessaE from a quick test anyway
09:47 crazyR hmm, seems that in a sense is_dir already exists... i think someone needs to update the dev wiki methods section. minetest.get_dir_list() needs documenting
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12:27 est31 joined #minetest-dev
12:28 est31 pushing trivial fix #2878 in 15 minutes. hmmmm pinging you so that you know that I push
12:28 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2878 -- Fix missing check for 0 in craft replacements by TeTpaAka
12:29 est31 also after that I would like to go over all the for loops inside that file, and replace iterators over vectors with actual number counting
12:29 est31 look at that for loop, the iterator is even postincremented
12:29 est31 (the fix has nothing to do with that)
12:30 est31 I will push that second commit too in ~15 mins
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12:46 est31 RealBadAngel, adding information to the nodedef whether its seamless or not is not the way to fix
12:46 est31 because there will be still a bias
12:51 est31 but RBA is right, thats how parallax mapping works
12:51 est31 look at this vid https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.​php?title=File%3AParallax_mapping.ogg
12:52 est31 the texture is
12:52 est31 biased depending on the angle
12:53 err404 joined #minetest-dev
12:55 est31 I wonder whether we can move it back without losing the effect
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14:25 est31 ok last chance to stop the two commits https://github.com/est31/minetest/commit/​286fb9ece884c72c56d98c6cc141f9e199fddb8f
14:25 est31 and https://github.com/est31/minetest/commit/​87b9cdab07f70a7f2dd6531650242b0893eb5930
14:26 est31 5 minutes now
14:26 est31 (two hours later)
14:30 est31 pushed
14:33 twoelk joined #minetest-dev
14:34 est31 that one gets pushed in 15 minutes https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/2880
14:35 twoelk are you sure any of those it concerns can hear you?
14:36 est31 twoelk, should I ping hmmmm?
14:36 kilbith we don't really need him for everything
14:37 Calinou does Irrlicht support relief mapping, or better, tesselation?
14:37 kilbith this heavy stranglehold is kind of strangling
14:40 twoelk hehe, so there are more awake than I thought
14:55 RealBadAngel est31, relief mapping doesnt use bias, parallax mapping do
14:56 RealBadAngel Calinou, irrlicht supports material with parallax mapping, but
14:56 RealBadAngel if parallax then no shaders
14:56 est31 RealBadAngel, did I say something wrongß
14:56 est31 ?
14:56 est31 I've only said its paralax mapping
14:56 RealBadAngel we do have parallax mapping with slope information and relief mapping
14:57 RealBadAngel only the first use bias
14:57 est31 yes but why not reverse the bias, depending on angle
14:57 est31 that should be possible, no?
14:57 RealBadAngel im trying with no luck for now
14:58 RealBadAngel propably the solution could be inverted heightmap
14:58 RealBadAngel we will see
14:59 RealBadAngel btw, we do really need info on texture properties
14:59 est31 for what
14:59 RealBadAngel connected textures will also need that info
14:59 est31 well thats another discussion
14:59 RealBadAngel and i could use it to solve parallax problems
14:59 est31 no
15:00 est31 I mean what would you do?
15:00 RealBadAngel because now either non tiling textures do work or seamless
15:00 est31 disable parallax mapping for non tiling textures?
15:00 est31 but what about tiling textures?
15:00 RealBadAngel shaders do not know what kind of texture is given
15:00 est31 there its still broken
15:00 RealBadAngel no, not disable
15:00 RealBadAngel offset the effect
15:00 est31 why not always offset
15:01 RealBadAngel or as vanessae said, glue texture to non tiling edge
15:02 RealBadAngel whatever offset i tried theres some texture visible on opposite edge
15:02 RealBadAngel so that damn asphalt node with white border stripes has stripes on both sides
15:04 SopaXT joined #minetest-dev
15:04 SopaXT Hi
15:04 SopaXT Where can I find the detailed specs on the game protocol
15:05 est31 SopaXT, in the code
15:05 SopaXT :<
15:05 est31 there are some pages on the wiki
15:05 est31 but they are mostly outdated
15:05 SopaXT Is it well documented?
15:05 est31 what do you want to find out
15:05 SopaXT I want to impoement a server
15:06 est31 ok
15:06 est31 you will have to either target one protocol version, or have compatibility with multiple ones
15:07 est31 but the protocol isnt documented at all at that detailed grade
15:07 est31 http://dev.minetest.net/Network_Protocol
15:16 SopaXT Ok, thank uou
15:37 Calinou custom servers often die early and have little support
15:42 AnotherBrick SopaXT : what's your reason for implementing new server instead of improving current one?
15:42 SopaXT My interediotism.
15:42 SopaXT Just for fun
15:44 AnotherBrick oh. good luck then :-)
15:45 est31 too bad hermatite uses the minecraft protocol, not the minetest protocol
15:45 est31 while we all know that its fundamentally flawed, because modding happens on the client, not the server
15:48 Calinou hermatite?
15:48 est31 man Calinou you know it
15:48 est31 http://hematite.piston.rs/
15:48 Calinou oh right
15:48 Calinou that server thing is new
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16:25 est31 the minecraft protocol isnt that bad after all
16:30 Ritchie joined #minetest-dev
16:31 Calinou it's still TCP for a real time game
16:31 Calinou using UDP we can achieve lower pings, provided we do it right... I wish Minetest used enet from the beginning
16:32 est31 enet is no magic "super fast" formula
16:32 est31 it depends on the skills of  the person who implements it
16:32 est31 uses*
16:44 est31 what i didnt understand is how they transmit y data for "chunks"
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17:20 giacomo986 hello everyone, just downloaded minetest-master and compiled, it start, I create a new world but i can't enter in it, the client freeze when it is creating the server
17:20 giacomo986 version 0.4.12-dev
17:20 est31 giacomo986, there is a current regression, I'm working on it
17:21 giacomo986 ok, happy that you know it
17:21 est31 giacomo986, can you put your debug.txt to a pastebin?
17:21 giacomo986 sure
17:22 Sokomine giacomo986: yes, same problem here. debug.txt won't be particulary helpful i'm afraid...
17:22 Sokomine it's a problem of latest git head
17:22 est31 Sokomine, might or might not
17:23 est31 I have that gamedef bug
17:23 est31 and it does give a hang in "creating server" for singleplayer
17:24 giacomo986 http://pastebin.com/mmkR5Rwi
17:24 est31 ok
17:24 est31 there is an error, see?
17:24 est31 o sorry
17:24 est31 no error
17:25 giacomo986 i was trying some mods but it is the same without ods
17:25 giacomo986 the game freeze so it wont write anything on debug
17:26 Sokomine yes. the server does not fire up properly. calinou reported that as well
17:26 est31 its a regression since 8a85e5e5
17:26 Sokomine must have happened very recently, yes
17:27 giacomo986 I installed official build trough rmp and it work nicely
17:27 Sokomine yes. it's a problem with the very current version. slightly older builds will work fine
17:30 est31 seems to be my fuckup
17:30 est31 yes, its my fault
17:31 est31 fixing now
17:31 est31 (when I've found the cause)
17:31 giacomo986 wow, I did not expect this speed
17:38 est31 well I have the bug now
17:39 est31 pretty stupid from me
17:39 giacomo986 what was?
17:39 est31 dumb replacing
17:40 est31 what can possibly go wrong here https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commi​t/96989e0a6aa3ab069b5aeeab44a6280d6d51364a​#diff-05fc0edba5ae83586559fef2fca70b47R244
17:40 est31 (and cause an endless loop)
17:40 hmmmm use size_t instead of std::vector<std::string>::size_type
17:41 est31 why is that better
17:41 hmmmm well for one, it's shorter
17:41 est31 vector<T>::size_type uses allocator<T>::size_type
17:42 hmmmm this way you can fit all of it on the same line, reducing clutter and making a for loop and its semantics quickly noticable
17:42 hmmmm in practice everything is going to be an unsigned integral type of sufficient capacity.
17:43 hmmmm moreover, you're implicitly guaranteed through the standard that sizeof(size_t) >= sizeof(*::size_type)
17:43 est31 is it guaranteed size_t is always larger than allocator<T>::size_type?
17:43 est31 lol
17:43 est31 ok
17:44 est31 pushing this now, ok hmmmm ?: https://github.com/est31/minetest/commit/​64dc0532098ceeaa8a9de01984bd6a309578ec1e
17:44 hmmmm sure.
17:45 est31 pushed
17:45 hmmmm so
17:45 hmmmm on expressiveness
17:45 hmmmm more compact or expressive does not necessarily mean better
17:46 est31 then I'll use size_t in future because of shortness
17:46 hmmmm it is better when it enhances the ability of expressions to be quickly recognized in their form
17:46 hmmmm when you see for (int i = 0; i != blah; i++) { you instantaneously know what this form does
17:46 hmmmm when it's on several lines... you force the reader to actually look at the loop conditions and what not
17:46 est31 that has been my thought with using ::size_type instead of size_t
17:47 Player_2 joined #minetest-dev
17:47 giacomo986 Can I try it now?
17:47 est31 giacomo986, bug fixed
17:48 giacomo986 nice, ty
17:48 hmmmm so, that commit you made that caused the regression
17:48 hmmmm who +1ed it?
17:50 est31 I have announced to do it in chat
17:50 est31 hours before
17:50 est31 even pinged you
17:50 hmmmm but... who +1ed it?
17:51 est31 no "I want to see it" from you
17:51 hmmmm that's a mistake that I would've caught
17:51 giacomo986 It works!
17:51 est31 nobody, it was triviality rule
17:52 hmmmm then maybe we should redefine "trivial"
17:52 hmmmm or remove it
17:52 hmmmm the "trivial" exception was put there to not totally piss off developers
17:53 est31 so you want to totally piss off devs?
17:53 est31 (using your words)
17:53 hmmmm yeah I think it's better than having that happen
17:53 hmmmm we need to accept the reality that the bleeding-edge devel version is what most people use
17:54 diemartin joined #minetest-dev
17:54 hmmmm and it needs a higher standard of stable
17:54 paramat joined #minetest-dev
17:54 est31 I think even more people use the stable releases
17:54 hmmmm haven't we gathered statistics on this?
17:55 est31 but they complain less on irc
17:55 kilbith sfan5 has the stats
17:55 est31 ^
17:55 hmmmm ahh good it's sfan
17:55 hmmmm i thought it was xyz
17:56 Sokomine it's ok if the bleeding edge version has trouble sometimes. irc is helpful to report such problems
17:57 paramat i'll push #2875 later
17:57 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2875 -- Mgv7: Lower base of mountain generation to -112 and define constant by paramat
17:57 hmmmm well
17:58 hmmmm paramat: if you find yourself making lots of commits that don't add functionality, but adjust parameters, maybe that should be configurable
17:59 paramat i did briefly think about making mountain base level configurable
17:59 paramat deoends on ocean depth
18:00 paramat i considered -112 deep enough to cover most custom noise parameters
18:00 VanessaE paramat: you neevr did add those acacia trees, did you?
18:00 VanessaE never*
18:00 paramat working on it
18:00 VanessaE ok.
18:00 VanessaE also:
18:01 paramat leaves texture needs redoing, i discovered the leaves are tiny
18:01 paramat you mean when a sapling grows? the lua code?
18:02 kilbith maybe using the L-system instead of a schematic could prevent that (?)
18:03 paramat l system can't reproduce the design of pine trees
18:03 kilbith VE uses for the moretrees's pine
18:03 kilbith uses the L-system*
18:03 VanessaE actually it can, but it's tricky to get it right and probably would not be too beneficial for that size of tree.
18:04 giacomo986 VanessaE, does your pipework mod works on 0.4.12? because I can't let it works
18:04 VanessaE giacomo986: that's not for this channel, but yes it should.
18:04 giacomo986 i'm sorry
18:05 Sokomine est31: thanks! the fix works fine. the worlds come up again
18:07 paramat yes i meant it can't reproduce the hardcoded design exactly
18:08 paramat just checked, lua pinetree growing doesn't check for air or ignore when placing trunk, will fix
18:09 sfan5 stats?
18:09 sfan5 hmmmm: stats about which versions are in use?
18:09 hmmmm yea
18:10 sfan5 http://meow.minetest.net/tmp/s​erverlist_stats_2015-03-14.txt
18:11 sfan5 the high amount of old version usage comes from the mobile stuff
18:11 hmmmm so we can't actually tell who's using a devel version or not
18:12 paramat so yes i'll keep mountain base level configurability in mind, i'm just considering the simplicity of setting a constant to a fairly deep value (-512 or whatever) being preferable to another parameter.  for now i'll push this as is
18:12 sfan5 hmmmm: yes we do
18:12 sfan5 it's just not included in the stats
18:12 hmmmm why..
18:13 sfan5 idk
18:13 hmmmm can we please start collecting devel versions
18:13 sfan5 189.144.161.188 - - [04/Jul/2015:18:13:20 +0000] "GET /list?proto_version_min=13&proto_version_max=24 HTTP/1.1" 200 147700 "-" "Minetest/0.4.11 (Linux/3.4.34-ecs-011 i686)" "-"
18:13 sfan5 thats devel, right?
18:13 hmmmm i guess not
18:14 sfan5 hm
18:14 sfan5 that can't be .11
18:14 sfan5 the proto args for the serverlist were added recently
18:14 sfan5 after the .12 release
18:15 sfan5 there is also "Minetest/0.4.12-dev (Linux/3.2.0-23-generic i686)"
18:16 sfan5 but i can only seem to find servers using that (POST /announce)
18:16 est31 the proto args were added before 0.4.12
18:16 sfan5 really?
18:17 est31 it is theoretically possible that they use a custom compiled version of a commit between the proto args commit and 0412
18:17 est31 they were my patch
18:17 est31 and now I think they can be removed
18:18 sfan5 either nobody is using .12-dev right now
18:18 sfan5 or something is broken
18:18 sfan5 but we *can* know which servers use -dev
18:18 sfan5 e.g.
18:18 sfan5 - - [04/Jul/2015:18:17:36 +0000] "POST /announce HTTP/1.1" 202 61 "-" "Minetest/0.4.12-dev-0b76e85 (Linux/3.2.0-4-amd64 x86_64)" "-"
18:19 Sokomine it took a while for .12 to show up even though it ought to have been .12 for quite a while now. perhaps that's it
18:32 est31 nno 4.12-dev at all?
18:32 est31 Ive thought this was fixed
18:36 est31 RealBadAngel, it seems only your last commit broke with opengl 2.1+?
18:36 est31 perhaps the state before that commit can be saved into the "simple shaders" directory?
18:36 sfan5 % tail -n10000 serverlist.log | grep "GET /list" | grep -- "-dev" | wc -l
18:36 sfan5 87
18:40 est31 hmmmm, I think we can lock up master by removing the triviality rule, and by requiring 3 core devs for patches a core dev submits, if we have enough devs around to do the checking
18:41 est31 sfan5, you have windows, no?
18:41 sfan5 no
18:41 sfan5 >by removing the triviality rule
18:41 sfan5 why
18:42 est31 hmmmm wants it, not me
18:46 est31 any core dev with windows?
18:46 kilbith est31, it's up to c55 to decide that
18:46 VanessaE blockmen, if you can contact him :P
18:48 hmmmm kilbith, what the hell is up with you
18:48 hmmmm do you have some kind of problem with me?
18:48 hmmmm who the fuck are you even?  you're not a core developer, you're just a very opinionated guy who keeps causing trouble and PMing people about other people
18:48 kilbith yes, i have
18:48 hmmmm stop causing drama
18:48 est31 kilbith is pming alot yes
18:49 hmmmm and why is it up to c55 to decide anything
18:49 kilbith when you don't have any argument, you attack by ad hominem, it's usual
18:49 est31 agree with hmmmm here
18:49 hmmmm I am not having a debate with you at all.  I'm calling you out on your shit
18:49 kilbith you're spreading disinformation about the rules whereas there no ambiguity, no grey zone
18:49 hmmmm ok chief.
18:49 kilbith the 1st time i recall you the rules, you attacked me in private
18:50 hmmmm is that so
18:50 kilbith for no reason
18:50 hmmmm I never PMed you once
18:50 kilbith remember when you asked if i was in love with nrz ?
18:50 hmmmm you always initiated PMs.  I believe I could have responded once or twice, I try to ignore them though
18:50 hmmmm look
18:50 hmmmm if you're dissatisfied with minetest, you're totally free to fork your own
18:50 kilbith no wonder why you're not much appreciated here
18:51 sfan5 the fuck
18:51 sfan5 kilbith: [citation needed]
18:51 hmmmm kilbith, I think you're just looking for a villian
18:51 hmmmm this is software development for some video game, not a drama channel
18:51 kilbith you're insulting people, ashaming them, hating what they does, cheating the rules
18:52 est31 hmmmm is the most competent dev around the last time
18:52 kilbith i wonder how the rest of team can stand with such sour attitude
18:52 est31 (cant judge the others)
18:52 hmmmm :') thanks
18:52 hmmmm kilbith: because attitude frankly doesn't matter.  code does
18:53 kilbith you have "your personal values and philosophy" but you don't even apply them to yourself at 1st instance
18:53 sfan5 kilbith: before you continue you hate train how about you give some evidence?
18:53 sfan5 your*
18:53 hmmmm maybe you're looking for a community like Rust's who is too scared of hurting peoples' feelings
18:53 kilbith sfan5, sure but i need time to gather all them properly
18:53 kilbith this is scattered on years scale
18:54 hmmmm this is stupid and doesn't belong in -dev
18:54 kilbith how many conflicts you brought there...
18:54 est31 hmmmm is a bit too much conservative the last days for me.
18:54 Sokomine hmmmm: sending pms is for most people the friendlier, less invasive way of contacting, especially if there is a problem. it is not intended to be an annoyance. it takes time for all of us to learn how to deal with each other, which preferences each person has
18:54 est31 there I agree
18:54 hmmmm est31:  maybe it's a knee-jerk reaction to the last set of bugs
18:54 hmmmm minetest is currently a mess and I don't like seeing that
18:55 sfan5 kilbith: I'm not asking for you to write a book, it should take you about 5 minutes to find evidence for e.g. him cheating the rules
18:55 hmmmm Sokomine:  kilbith does this all the time to talk about people behind their backs
18:55 kilbith sfan5: an example, did you already saw him trying to obtain another +1 when he merge his commits ?
18:55 hmmmm not quite the same as telling them about a bug, or giving a suggestion, or discussing how a feature should work
18:55 kilbith he want more restriction, except for him
18:56 sfan5 kilbith: no, I'd like a link to that
18:56 kilbith a link for what ?
18:56 sfan5 "him trying to obtain another +1 when he merge his commits"
18:56 hmmmm kilbith is so full of shit.  he's the one propogating the debunked myth of the noise param configuration bug
18:56 Sokomine hmm. i've talked to kilbith a lot as well - about other things of mutual intrest, and havn't heared anything bad about other people
18:56 hmmmm again, stop adding noise to #-dev
18:57 hmmmm take it to #minetest or somewhere else
18:57 kilbith he merge directly after presenting the diff puched on his repo
18:57 Sokomine i don't think the discussion now will help any of the people involved. over here, it's far too hot to think
18:57 hmmmm kilbith: trivial change exception!
18:58 kilbith you have nastily broken the seed already
18:58 hmmmm see look!  it's in the text added on some unprotected wiki page!  therefore it must be legally binding
18:58 kilbith i can dig out many examples where people has complained about rudeness and insults here on IRC and the forum
18:58 sfan5 >i can dig out many examples
18:58 sfan5 ffs
18:58 hmmmm I don't care about what people think about my rudeness
18:58 sfan5 then do that
18:59 hmmmm there have been plenty of complaints before, they go directly to the virtual wastebin though.  like I said, code flies, bullshit does not.
18:59 hmmmm /good/ code, at that.
18:59 kilbith and sfan5, you took his defense whenever hmmmm is attacked (last one : when rubenwardy has censured him for personal attack on the wiki)
19:00 hmmmm and this is the inappropriate venue for this sort of non-development discussion
19:00 hmmmm can it.
19:00 sfan5 how about you gather some examples instead of blindly accusing me
19:00 sfan5 all this makes me thing is that you aren't right at all
19:00 kilbith what about pestitidigator also ?
19:00 kilbith prestitigator*
19:01 kilbith yeah, ban me
19:02 hmmmm -> #minetest
19:02 kilbith i'd be interested to discuss of all that with c55 after a decent report about you
19:03 hmmmm > Chit-chat goes to #minetest.
19:03 kilbith i stop now
19:06 hmmmm a couple lines back and forth about a joke, meaningless banter, mod discussion, etc. is fine, continuously going on a tirade for a page or more about how I'm this horrible dictator is clearly not allowed here
19:15 paramat good grief O_o anyway now pushing 2875
19:23 paramat complete
19:28 est31 joined #minetest-dev
19:29 est31 dammit internetz broke
19:29 est31 using mobile internet now
19:30 Calinou I have 20 GB of mobile data here :P
19:30 est31 its unlimited for me
19:30 est31 but after some limit, I get cut
19:30 est31 then I have to use 64 kbit
19:30 est31 works good for irc, and I can even push git commits
19:32 est31 hmmmm, you care about the code thats good. Also, ok that you are rude. but I have another opinion like you how contribution rules should be.
19:32 Calinou same here, it's throttled to 512 Kb/s after those 20 GB
19:33 hmmmm regardless of how many people are actually using dev vs. stable versions doesn't change my opinion much
19:33 hmmmm the fact is, if problems are allowed to exist to begin with, it usually takes a much longer amount of time
19:33 est31 512 kbs is quite decent
19:34 est31 I agree with you bugs must be fixed, and if they are serious enough, one even has to rollback. but I dont think we should close ourselves from development because of that
19:35 est31 devs have to admit bugs caused by them, and have to fix them
19:35 hmmmm maybe what if we have a technical debt 'credit card'
19:36 hmmmm you're allowed to rack up unfixed bugs, poor documentation, sloppy code style, etc.
19:36 hmmmm but as time goes on it accrues interest and becomes more important
19:36 hmmmm and there's a credit limit that you hit eventually
19:36 hmmmm at which point you can't commit more crap until the rest of your stuff is fixed
19:36 hmmmm ??
19:37 * VanessaE imagines how many people will have exceeded said "credit" limit :P
19:37 est31 if you get neutral again if you fix your stuff, then yes
19:38 hmmmm yeah this is actually a decent sounding system
19:38 est31 also sloppy code style should weigh differently than bugs
19:38 hmmmm the frequent offenders would quickly learn, and those who produce great code to begin with wouldn't be penalized
19:38 hmmmm of course things have different weights
19:39 hmmmm we'll have to adopt that bug scoring system that CERT uses
19:39 est31 CERT?
19:39 hmmmm yea?
19:39 hmmmm or is it NIST
19:39 hmmmm i forget, but basically they have a scoring rubric for determining how critical a bug is
19:40 hmmmm or not, those are for security vulnerabilities only
19:40 hmmmm meh
19:41 est31 such a system would only work if somebody is maintaining it
19:41 hmmmm i could script it up in a web application
19:41 est31 also what to do if somebody else fixes your bug?
19:41 hmmmm i'd much rather work on minetest though
19:41 hmmmm hmmmm
19:41 est31 that sounds better
19:42 hmmmm good question
19:42 est31 if you give the score to both, you create a positive only system
19:43 hmmmm but it also encourages people to let their bug go and have somebody else do it
19:43 hmmmm and how does interest on technical debt work?  improving some other part of the code as part of community service?  or something?
19:43 est31 halve the effect?
19:44 VanessaE est31: give the person who broke it half the otherwise-negative value of the bug, and half the positive value to the person who fixed it.
19:44 VanessaE or however you want to rate the severity
19:44 est31 yes
19:44 VanessaE so that people who just let others fix their screwups will still decline and have to work harder to make up for it.
19:45 diemartin joined #minetest-dev
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19:47 paramat meh waste of time, work on minetest instead
19:48 VanessaE that's the point, paramat. :)
19:55 est31 joined #minetest-dev
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20:19 paramat sfan5 here's the fix for VanessaE 's bug report game#554
20:20 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetes​t/minetest_game/issues/554 -- Default/trees: Add checks for air/ignore/needles to pinetree trunk by paramat
20:25 est joined #minetest-dev
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20:32 sfan5 paramat: if you place a pinetree node for y == yy would it be better to add a single data[a:index(x, y, z)] = c_pinetree call and let the loop start at y+1?
20:32 sfan5 s/if/since/
20:32 est VanessaE, whats your creative spawn coords again?
20:32 sfan5 s/would/wouldn't/
20:32 est also there is a minor street grief
20:33 est at -7.5,2,2.7
20:33 VanessaE est: -307,19,-426
20:33 est ahh there is it
20:33 est nice greeting "suspiciously large amount of objects detected"
20:34 paramat erm..
20:34 sfan5 paramat: also a source code comment explaining why there needs to be a pinetree node at x, y, z always would be nice
20:35 VanessaE est: bingo, that's the start of the bug
20:35 kilbith bye
20:35 kilbith left #minetest-dev
20:36 sfan5 left #minetest-dev
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20:36 paramat perhaps better i'll work on it, and add comment
20:37 paramat if i do i will do that for appletree and jungletree too
20:37 TeTpaAka joined #minetest-dev
20:38 paramat looks like your suggestion would be slightly faster, will work on it tomorrow
20:38 paramat left #minetest-dev
21:01 RealBadAngel est, 2.1 is not compliant with parallax code, my very last PR was about fixing bumpmapping issues for 2.1 (among other tweaks)
21:01 est RealBadAngel, then remove latest parallax pr
21:02 est errr take the code of the state before your parallax pr
21:06 RealBadAngel est, thats the idea for "lite" shaders
21:06 est ok
21:06 est well, either another dir, or an ifdef or whatever
21:06 RealBadAngel im think on shaders not just on/off, but off/lite/full
21:07 RealBadAngel another dir for sure
21:09 RealBadAngel thx to that i can achieve two things, have shaders for opengl2.1 safe, tested and not to be touched
21:10 RealBadAngel for full option i could drop compability with GLSL 1.2 and pick newer shader model version
21:10 est it should perhaps be called somehow else
21:10 est off/compat/full
21:11 RealBadAngel up to be decided
21:11 RealBadAngel just drawing a picture now
21:12 RealBadAngel keeping compability with nine yrs old shader model is pain in the ass, when developing modern effects
21:12 RealBadAngel this way i can definitely get rid of such problems
21:13 est we need compat for android too
21:14 RealBadAngel propably lite will do
21:15 RealBadAngel 2.1 is old enough for handheld to run imho
21:16 est right now its broken
21:16 RealBadAngel i will need to make some cleaning on my hdd and install x86 droid to test things
21:16 est even before your pr
21:16 RealBadAngel whats broken now?
21:16 est everything is red
21:16 RealBadAngel droid?
21:16 est yes
21:17 RealBadAngel never had a chance to test it or see logs on whats not workin
21:17 est #2502
21:17 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2502 -- Shaders on android produce wrong colors
21:18 RealBadAngel we shall change one thing about shaders
21:18 est using opengl es 1
21:18 RealBadAngel if failed to compile fall back to no shaders
21:18 est yea
21:18 RealBadAngel number of ways to report broken shaders (i mean red colors) is amazing ;)
21:19 est btw what happens when shaders fail to compile now?
21:20 RealBadAngel red eclipse ;)
21:20 RealBadAngel irrlicht materials are broken and theres no lighting
21:20 RealBadAngel mt expects lighting to be done by shaders
21:20 est does the shader compiler somehow output compilation errors?
21:21 est perhaps those should be logged
21:21 RealBadAngel shader.cpp
21:21 RealBadAngel there on error (of any kind we have to set a fallback)
21:22 RealBadAngel i think with a config setting for it
21:23 RealBadAngel otherwise testing shaders would be a pain in the ass
21:24 RealBadAngel enable_shaders_fallback = default true, and then enable_shaders should be set to false
21:25 RealBadAngel developing shaders is quiting to menu and launching again, so fallback in my case would be just annoying
21:26 est the problem is it doesnt even print a single error to errorstream
21:26 est how can you find out you had an error?
21:26 RealBadAngel it does
21:27 RealBadAngel it says the reason, and the line where it occures
21:27 RealBadAngel it does it even many times, since shaders are instanced for each drawtype
21:27 est so then shader compilation is successful
21:28 est because I see no reason
21:28 est or is it not in errorstream?
21:28 RealBadAngel its dumped to console and logged
21:28 est where?
21:29 RealBadAngel edit your shader and instert there some obvious fail
21:29 RealBadAngel you will see the effects
21:29 est where are shaders stored again
21:29 RealBadAngel client/shaders
21:30 RealBadAngel btw line reported to have error != line number in shader source file
21:31 RealBadAngel we do add shitload of lines in header runtime
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21:44 VanessaE RealBadAngel: didn't I suggest multiple levels of shader capability some tiome ago? :P
21:45 VanessaE -o
21:45 VanessaE good idea to auto-fallback to no shaders though - but perhaps fall back to "lite" first, then to none if that fails to compile.
21:46 RealBadAngel first lets make a fallback at all, then we can modify it with levels
21:48 RealBadAngel such multilevel fallback would be tricky anyway
21:49 VanessaE tricky, but useful in some cases I think
21:49 RealBadAngel it would require user interaction - restarting game all over to get working one
21:49 VanessaE why?  can't you just auto-switch?
21:49 RealBadAngel and even then it wont mean user will get useable shader
21:49 VanessaE "just" :P
21:50 RealBadAngel from the issue: "Nope, no wrong colors. Although I did only check the shaders button. Bumpmapping makes minetest unplayable.:
21:51 RealBadAngel so propably droid shaders should be just lighting code and maybe waving stuff (its not that expensive effect)
21:51 VanessaE right
21:52 VanessaE I think that's roughly what they had around 0.4.10 anyway
21:52 est RealBadAngel, I can give you actual data after I've worked through millions of  Loaded cached media: 55085959931f72f6662290664e6fd00bae681a47 "default_tool_steelaxe.png" likes
21:52 est lines*
21:54 RealBadAngel est, http://pastie.org/10273334
21:54 RealBadAngel this is fail output
21:54 RealBadAngel with default log level
22:00 RealBadAngel lol, i was afraid for relief mapping being too expensive with loop and 24 iterations
22:01 RealBadAngel look at piece of code from SEUS shaders:
22:01 RealBadAngel for (int i = 0; sampleHeight < pCoord.z && i < 240; ++i)
22:02 est RealBadAngel, dunno if that "Irrlicht log:" still gets spit out by android
22:02 RealBadAngel est, but definitely you got error in the engine
22:03 RealBadAngel https://github.com/minetest/minete​st/blob/master/src/shader.cpp#L803
22:03 RealBadAngel heres the place for fallback code
22:03 RealBadAngel lemme test it how it could work
22:07 est hrmm
22:08 RealBadAngel putting there g_settings->setBool("enable_shaders", false); is half the job
22:09 est cant you disable them inside the scene?
22:09 RealBadAngel when we get there we already decided to assign another material to tile
22:10 * est wonders whats still against merging Tesseract's logging pr
22:10 est well a rebase is needed
22:11 est and does android really fail to compile or is it the buildbot?
22:27 est_ joined #minetest-dev
22:55 est31 ok what about this commit https://github.com/est31/minetest/commit/​0f04f0e36a37527003e491c316f27a476974b08f
22:55 est31 hmmmm, ^
22:55 est31 its part of SN's logging cleanup, and I think we can push it already now
22:55 est31 also I judge it as "trivial"
23:06 est31 second commit https://github.com/est31/minetest/commit/​99699c6e8d3932796bee8b915f596ae4c191fee3
23:07 est31 so is anybody around to approve?
23:07 est31 hmmmm, ?
23:07 est31 PUSHING IN ONE HOUR
23:11 kahrl est31: why does a function that deals with utf-8 use CP_ACP instead of CP_UTF8?
23:11 kahrl even if it's correct, this at least needs a comment imo
23:11 est31 well, one of the formats is CP_ACP, the other one is unicode
23:11 est31 thats how I think these functions work
23:12 AnotherBrick https://msdn.microsoft.com/​en-us/library/bb202786.aspx
23:14 kahrl the documentation is kinda unclear but I'm pretty confident that the codepage argument specifies the encoding of the multibyte string
23:15 kahrl since wide strings are always encoded in the windows variant of UTF-16/UCS-2, so there's nothing to specify about it
23:15 est31 MultiByteToWideChar: "Maps a character string to a UTF-16 (wide character) string. The character string is not necessarily from a multibyte character set."
23:15 est31 first sentence
23:16 est31 hrmm
23:16 kahrl also CP_ACP can have different meanings on different systems
23:16 est31 thats the point isnt it
23:16 kahrl depending on what language version of windows was installed
23:17 kahrl no, we always want to convert from/to utf8
23:17 est31 yes
23:18 est31 AnotherBrick, what is the output for ffЖff when setting CP_UTF8
23:18 kahrl I'm a bit out of the loop, what issue # is this commit fixing?
23:19 est31 #2847
23:19 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2847 -- Font characters broken
23:19 AnotherBrick it is 6666d0966666
23:19 VanessaE est31: I can confirm that btw
23:20 VanessaE someone was writing in an asian language on my server the other day.  came through fine to the IRC bot, but in-game it was just blanks.
23:21 kahrl clearly some part of minetest is storing string in the local multibyte encoding and some other part is expecting it to be utf8
23:21 kahrl the string*
23:21 est31 chat is sent in wchar
23:21 kahrl wish I had access to a working build on windows so I could trace what happens to the string
23:22 est31 perhaps AnotherBrick can help
23:22 kahrl chat should be sent in utf8, but idk how to easily change that
23:23 est31 we will have to make a new protocol version, and make a new chat packet
23:23 est31 for legacy clients, the server converts to or from wchar
23:24 AnotherBrick idk how chat is send, but it's trying to be displayed as narrow string
23:24 kahrl does the problem only affect surrogates?
23:24 kahrl if so, it might be due to the differences between linux and windows in how wide strings are handled
23:25 AnotherBrick with CP_UTF8 it correctly converts to utf-8 and than display some obscure character
23:26 AnotherBrick sooo, though i see my cyrillic perfectly with CP_ACP i have no idea what other players will see
23:27 est31 AnotherBrick, can you try to make CP_ACP for one function and UTF8 for the other, to find out which function has the "wrong behaviour"??
23:28 AnotherBrick you mean one utf8_to_wide and second utf8_to_wide?
23:28 est31 no, utf8_to_wide vs wide_to_utf8
23:29 est31 or has only utf8_to_wide the bug?
23:29 kahrl I don't think either has "the bug"
23:29 kahrl the bug is that something is not using them properly
23:29 AnotherBrick ok, i'll check it...
23:30 VanessaE bbl
23:31 est31 kahrl, so the bug is only on windows then?
23:31 est31 or perhaps its on linux too, but there the functions are wrong?
23:31 kahrl ah sorry, I didn't actually check it
23:32 kahrl I assumed so because the fix only modifies the windows implementation
23:32 est31 no the bug is only on windows
23:32 est31 works great here on linux
23:32 est31 (if not, I wouldnt have commited the pr)
23:36 AnotherBrick hmm.. utf8_to_wide isn't called at all for chat strings. or i'm sleeping right now?
23:36 est31 and wide_to_utf8?
23:37 est31 well its called at some places
23:37 est31 mostly inside guiformspecmenu.cpp
23:37 AnotherBrick and  wide_to_utf8 is being called and produces results which i already provided
23:38 est31 so, can you test whether its the "fault" of wide_to_utf8 or utf8_to_wide?
23:39 est31 just change the codepages
23:39 est31 first one, then test, then the other one then test
23:39 est31 then change both
23:40 est31 if one of the first two tests succeeded, its only the fault of one function
23:40 kahrl have you tried changing the call in game.cpp:186 to utf8_to_wide?
23:41 AnotherBrick kahrl : that makes sense, i'll try
23:42 hmmmm est31:  0f04f0e looks good to me, things like 99699c6 where the code change is trivial but the effect isn't obvious needs to be verified through actual testing, which it seems like you did
23:44 kahrl hmmmm: about 99699c6, see above
23:44 est31 pushing this then: https://github.com/est31/minetest/commit/​a93838707a9aab104c20b6a971d8c622184a508f
23:44 est31 the other commit will have to wait until we've found out what to fix
23:44 AnotherBrick kahrl i love you. that fuckin works!!
23:44 kahrl nice :)
23:45 est31 AnotherBrick, now I still wonder, where the problem occured
23:45 AnotherBrick so, CP_UTF8 is ok, everything in string.cpp is fine, problem is in game.cpp
23:46 AnotherBrick just wrong function for displaying chat strings on client side
23:46 est31 its not at all just displaying
23:46 est31 its also sending over the protocol
23:47 AnotherBrick yeah, but for sending only wide_to_utf8 is used
23:47 AnotherBrick and it's fine
23:47 est31 not yet
23:48 est31 also we havent figured out how to fix fgettext yet
23:48 est31 eg like here https://github.com/minetest/minetest​/issues/2847#issuecomment-116172443
23:50 AnotherBrick mmm can't help here. i compiled without gettext
23:51 kahrl est31: I tried to summarize what happens: https://gist.github.com/kahrl/50669c6beaf57fe1796e
23:52 kahrl if my reading of the code is correct
23:53 est31 kahrl, makes sense,
23:54 kahrl I think we should strive to eventually get rid of most narrow strings, and use utf8 everywhere instead
23:54 est31 ^
23:54 kahrl so that errors like this can't happen
23:54 est31 yea long term goal is to deprecate wide_to_narrow and narrow_*
23:57 est31 I'm working on sending chat message as utf8 now
23:58 est31 what do you think, should we use new opcodes, or make it only dependend on proto version?
23:58 est31 second would involve less "formality" around network code
23:59 est31 e.g. you have to add handler methods, add the opcode to various tables etc

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