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IRC log for #minetest-dev, 2015-07-02

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03:44 VanessaE new benchmark in case anyone is interested:
03:45 VanessaE with 10 minetest client instances running, plus one that's trying to barf due to serialization errors, each signed onto a different server, I'm still pulling 18-19 fps on each one, drawtimes in the range of 25 to 30, variably.
03:45 VanessaE so 18 * 10 == 180 fps effective speed
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03:45 VanessaE so how Minetest communicates with the GPU is definitely the problem - gotta be a threading issue
03:48 VanessaE correction
03:49 VanessaE make that more like 12 to 30 fps on each.  I had them all in "pause" mode (so their framerates were being capped, of course)
03:52 VanessaE I'd guestimate an average of 30 fps, so 30 * 10 == 300 fps, as an optimistic figure
04:06 VanessaE ok now 11 clients running, and all but one are pulling 28-30 fps (the one that isn't is on my Creative server and doing 11-12)
04:15 VanessaE http://digitalaudioconcepts.com/vane​ssa/hobbies/minetest/screenshots/11-​client-screenshot---2015-07-02.png
04:20 VanessaE in that screenshot, all 6 of my cores are running just a hair short of full-blast
04:21 VanessaE RealBadAngel: ^^^
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06:04 sofar lots of deprecated warnings in HEAD atm... getBoneName() ...
06:13 sofar minimap looks great, fps is fine too for me
06:13 sofar well, this 9800gt has seen the best of days, really
06:13 sofar at 2560x1600 I barely squeeze 45fps-50fps out of it
06:19 RealBadAngel not that bad
06:19 VanessaE RealBadAngel: look up.
06:20 RealBadAngel but if vbo code will get in you will get way more
06:20 RealBadAngel i can see that
06:20 RealBadAngel pretty interesting
06:22 RealBadAngel but seriously, we dont have much running in threads
06:22 RealBadAngel mapgen, meshgen and minimap only
06:22 RealBadAngel whole game runs in single thread
06:23 VanessaE clearly :)
06:24 RealBadAngel thats nothing new
06:24 VanessaE but that screenshot is conclusive proof that my drivers are not slow :)
06:24 RealBadAngel you had problems with another apps too
06:24 RealBadAngel like this benchmark
06:25 VanessaE indeed, but running multiple instance at once proves that my CPU has enough raw grunt to feed this GPU.
06:25 VanessaE instances*
06:25 VanessaE and of minetest, yet.
06:26 RealBadAngel you shall work in AMD public relations ;)
06:26 VanessaE ...
06:26 VanessaE my point is that my drivers aren't broken like you thought,
06:26 RealBadAngel youre defending them all the time ;)
06:27 RealBadAngel ofc they are
06:27 RealBadAngel i had same issues when i had radeon
06:27 VanessaE I'll bet you didn't try running 11 instances of Minetest all at once though :)
06:27 RealBadAngel switched to nvidia and all the problems are gone
06:28 RealBadAngel what for?
06:29 VanessaE at first it was a competition between cheapie and I
06:29 VanessaE then I decided to push it further and make a screenshot as a benchmark
06:29 VanessaE notice the total FPS across all of them
06:29 VanessaE something close to 300
06:30 VanessaE had you done the same, you'd have come to realize that MT's single-thread performance either sucks, or it's maxed out and more threads are needed :)
06:30 cheapie For the record, I got about 15 FPS in each, running 10 clients, at a view range that normally gets me ~25 when I'm running one.
06:31 VanessaE how many cores, cheapie ?
06:31 cheapie 8 integer cores sharing 4 FPU cores.
06:32 VanessaE 6 here, not sure of the integer vs FPU figures.
06:32 cheapie What CPU model is it?
06:33 VanessaE Phenom II X6 1055T
06:33 cheapie I think that's a "normal" one.
06:33 cheapie (meaning each integer core is paired with its own FP core)
06:33 VanessaE ok.
06:34 cheapie This one is an FX-9590, for the record.
06:39 VanessaE RealBadAngel: in any case, needs MOAR threads! :P
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07:07 asl97 iirc, you can't have more than one thread doing the render on most library, it mess up quite badly
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07:07 VanessaE asl97: tell that to folks who run OpenArena or Counterstrike.
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07:23 asl97 they most likely use the other thread to do the prerendering stuff like texture and mesh
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08:42 julienrat hi Megaf ! have you solved your problem on Rpi with this error ? " libEGL warning: DRI2: failed to authenticate" //  http://irc.minetest.ru/minetest-dev/2014-10-09
08:43 julienrat coz i'm trying to run minetest with opengl-ES enabled on my raspberry pi2 ...
08:43 julienrat and i have got the same problem
08:44 julienrat any ideas ?
08:48 kilbith julienrat, PM
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12:34 crazyR_ Jasper any update on your suggestions/ideas for a few days ago?
12:34 crazyR_ *for/from
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13:54 crazyR_ hey guys is there information about how to use gettext inside mods?
13:54 Calinou you can't use gettext directly, instead use kaeza's intllib
13:55 Calinou which is quite a standard now
13:55 Calinou but remember, the translation is server-side and affects all players
13:56 crazyR_ so theres no way to allow each player to view content in there own language as defined in there own config?
13:59 crazyR_ oh it ok i see. hmm how could the intlib hasnt been made core part of minetest.
14:01 crazyR_ *could/come
14:04 crazyR_ if the client was to send the language that is defined in the conf to the server. then intlib could be modified to be unuiqe to each player..
14:05 crazyR_ being able to retrieve the player language in mod via the player object should be good enough. opinions?
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14:38 Sokomine hmm. anyone present who has a deeper understanding of mod_security?
14:38 * Sokomine looks around and tries to catch a shadowninja
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15:15 Megaf Hi all,
15:15 Megaf That is interesting.
15:15 Megaf ../games/minetest_game/mod​s/default/nodes.lua:1538: attempt to call a nil value
15:15 Megaf ../games/minetest_game/mod​s/default/nodes.lua:1538: in main chunk
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15:37 Megaf julienrat: just give up of minetest on the Raspbery, they don't care...
15:39 Sokomine i'm pretty sure people care. but what has an error in minetest_game to do with the raspberry?
15:40 kilbith nothing
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16:13 RealBadAngel hi hmmmm, and what about your modifications to the minimap?
16:13 hmmmm what?
16:13 RealBadAngel you said youre gonna make a pull request with some changes...
16:14 RealBadAngel so im waiting for it
16:14 hmmmm oh yeah i was gonna but then est started messing around with those files so it'd cause a lot of merge conflicts
16:14 hmmmm i just abandoned it
16:15 RealBadAngel ok. so shall i fix issues there with lines >80 etc?
16:16 hmmmm nah don't bother.  it doesn't even matter.
16:16 RealBadAngel ok, next time i will care bout it
16:16 hmmmm nah it's okay
16:17 hmmmm just write the code however you like.  it's all a giant mess anyway.
16:17 RealBadAngel mess or not, im lovin it ;)
16:18 RealBadAngel btw, what do you think about adding normal textures to the game?
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16:19 hmmmm i don't know, it doesn't even matter to me anymore
16:19 Calinou if they're done properly, yes
16:19 Calinou if they're generated poorly, nope :P
16:19 hmmmm you know what
16:19 Calinou they need to make sense
16:19 hmmmm i don't see any point for me to work on minetest any longer
16:19 RealBadAngel lemme make a screenshot with a few i already made
16:19 RealBadAngel hmmmm, what?
16:19 hmmmm like celeron said, why bother develop something that you don't even use
16:19 hmmmm bother to develop*
16:19 Calinou most developers don't play their own games
16:20 rubenwardy so true
16:20 RealBadAngel developing is also a game, for your mind
16:20 rubenwardy exactly
16:20 est31 hmmmm, if there are problems with my code, just say which
16:21 RealBadAngel no matter youre creating shack out of nodes or developing mapgen
16:21 RealBadAngel youre creating something that is fun for you
16:21 est31 ^
16:22 est31 I've tried to answer most questions you asked last time when I wasnt online
16:22 est31 but you werent online too
16:22 est31 so now we both are.
16:24 est31 if you have an idea how to design it better, just say so
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16:31 RealBadAngel Calinou, hand made maps are way better than autogenerated (in most cases). autogenaration fails for example with bricks, it cannot see the patterns or shapes
16:31 RealBadAngel so my idea is to supply most controversial ones, for other textures autogen will do
16:38 RealBadAngel https://imgrush.com/scfikhW-pAKR
16:38 RealBadAngel what do you guys think about it?
16:38 Calinou wow
16:38 Calinou definitely better than Minecraft 2.0
16:38 est31 nice
16:39 est31 it should perhaps be an option in settings
16:39 RealBadAngel already is
16:39 RealBadAngel thats relief mapping + bumpmapping
16:39 est31 ok
16:40 RealBadAngel Calinou, so, you think theyre properly done? :)
16:43 est31 gtg again have to shut computer down to keep it cool
16:44 Calinou they look OK
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16:46 RealBadAngel i will push today some small bugfixes to shaders (fish eye problem when lookin at texture from small distance, AMD Opengl 2.1 fixes, etc)
16:46 RealBadAngel later on i will upload to git already made normals
16:47 RealBadAngel so you can test them, screenshots doesnt show how it feels in game
16:47 RealBadAngel you have to walk around
16:50 RealBadAngel hmmmm, i hope you dont really wanna leave.  take a break, have a few beers and come back to work :)
16:50 hmmmm i've been flaking out for a while
16:50 hmmmm i can see why people just stop showing up
16:50 hmmmm problems keep coming up
16:51 hmmmm just wanted to do some development, the build was broken on my machine, then when i fixed that there's a massive rendering regression, and then there's this general push toward trendy new features rather than ensuring quality
16:52 hmmmm i don't know.  i feel like i have different values than the rest of the team.
16:52 hmmmm it's like there's a never ending stream of problems
16:52 hmmmm remember when minetest was enjoyable to work on?
16:53 RealBadAngel ofc, fun is not to catch the rabbit, but to keep running after it
16:53 RealBadAngel it is still fun for me
16:53 RealBadAngel im coding now stuff i planned ages ago
16:54 Calinou <+hmmmm> remember when minetest was enjoyable to work on?
16:54 hmmmm well, those are your own values.  and your value is different from my values.  i find it difficult to stay motivated chasing after some semblance of stability.  i want to get things done, not chase a carrot on a stick
16:54 Calinou it was monolithic
16:54 RealBadAngel and polishing it, so theyre not just "new trendy features"
16:55 RealBadAngel to get effects you can see on the screenshot, it took months to have all needed stuff rdy
16:55 RealBadAngel all those new features are based on a hard work and basis i made
16:57 RealBadAngel you could compare each new effect to your biome. mapgen is here, im just adding new biomes ;)
16:59 Jasper crazyR_, haven't gotten time at work yet
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17:06 est31 adding iconv is no "trendy new feature"
17:07 est31 its a neccessary addition for reliability
17:07 est31 you can't communicate in your own wchar variant
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17:07 est31 the world isn't the US, we have to support other languages than english too.
17:09 RealBadAngel anyway, project with no new features is a dead project
17:10 RealBadAngel also, with new features come also solutions to old problems. minimap case - we have fixed mesh update lags
17:10 hmmmm bullshit
17:10 est31 have we?
17:10 RealBadAngel est31, you have coded it
17:11 est31 you mean the updatethread commit?
17:11 RealBadAngel yes
17:11 est31 that removed lag? cool
17:11 est31 I had wanted something else originally
17:11 est31 but nice side effect
17:12 hmmmm mesh update lags are caused by the gpu driver - not by forcing a context switch
17:12 hmmmm snake oil for you, a regression for everybody else
17:13 RealBadAngel hmmmm, mesh update thread have no contact with GPU, its pure CPU dependent code
17:13 hmmmm the main render/input thread now has to contend with an additional thread sucking up all cpu
17:13 est31 hmmmm, so you say using a semaphore instead of while (no update) sleep_ms(3); is a bad thing?
17:13 est31 nonono
17:13 est31 I'm using a semaphore
17:14 est31 https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commi​t/29dda9f356042c403b3b7da1d717d32b45c9b6de​#diff-7f3a3ff3a2c9b903da668a4598f5f8bbR257
17:14 est31 thats where the thread waitsd
17:14 est31 -d
17:14 hmmmm RealBadAngel, new meshes must be uploaded to the GPU
17:15 hmmmm est31:  I can see that it blocks, but this has nothing to do with what I'm talking about
17:15 RealBadAngel hmmmm, only if you want to use VBO
17:15 RealBadAngel otherwise theyre stored in memory
17:15 hmmmm and transferred to the GPU anyway on render
17:15 RealBadAngel and when you do that, it raises performance dramatically
17:15 est31 so whats the problem then hmmmm?
17:16 hmmmm I have two separate people talking to me about two separate issues
17:16 hmmmm at the same exact time
17:16 RealBadAngel ok, im off for a couple of minutes ;)
17:16 est31 lol
17:17 RealBadAngel seriously, going shoppin, brb
17:17 hmmmm est31: the problem is that the mesh generation queue is can remain oversaturated and never take a break
17:17 hmmmm it would eat up all of its cpu time allocated to that quantum
17:17 hmmmm and that thread has the same priority as does the rendering and input thread, which is latency sensitive
17:17 est31 I see
17:18 est31 so if its not run on a separate core
17:18 hmmmm placing that sleep call there makes it so that it forces the scheduler to perform a context switch after each mesh generation
17:18 est31 (eg with singlecore machines)
17:18 hmmmm no, even if it is
17:18 est31 then it clogs up
17:18 hmmmm there are also many other processes running on that machine
17:18 hmmmm it all has to do with scheduling latency
17:19 hmmmm this wouldn't be as much of a problem if we were able to set the mesh generation thread to a background priority
17:19 hmmmm but we can't, because linux's scheduler doesn't allow thread priority to be set without changing the scheduling policy to round robin
17:20 hmmmm so inserting a sleep() has the same effect
17:20 est31 but whats bad about a thread running at 100% CPU?
17:20 est31 I mean if its on another core
17:21 hmmmm because you don't understand the way SMP schedulers work :)
17:21 est31 so what do you propose
17:21 hmmmm maybe it's different on Windows, where 100% cpu-usage threads get automatically backgrounded
17:22 hmmmm also UI tasks get a priority boost
17:22 hmmmm I propose adding back the sleep() call
17:23 hmmmm even sleep(0) works fine
17:23 hmmmm maybe even pthread_yield()
17:23 est31 only to the mesh thread, or to the minimap thread too?
17:23 hmmmm both
17:23 est31 ok
17:23 hmmmm you don't have to bother
17:23 hmmmm I am not telling you "this must be done"
17:24 hmmmm when I added multithreaded emerge threads, it worked like crap
17:24 hmmmm even with 2 threads instead of 1
17:24 hmmmm I wondered, why on earth does it add so much lag even though I have 8 cores?
17:25 hmmmm the actual reason is honestly an OS-dependent answer
17:27 hmmmm generally, what happens is that the rendering thread (always running) gets a chance to execute more often and at a guaranteed time when the number of running threads is minimal
17:27 hmmmm there's no guarantee whatsoever that the rendering thread stays on a single core
17:28 est31 is this a linux problem, or a freebsd problem?
17:28 hmmmm both
17:29 hmmmm this is a soft-real-time process, but in order to set the priority as such, you must be root
17:29 est31 how does even scheduling influence tasks running on different CPUs?
17:29 hmmmm there are plenty of other threads running at the same time from background tasks
17:29 est31 I mean the scheduler sees "hey one thread with alot of things to do, and another with less to do"
17:30 hmmmm those, plus your own applications' tasks, cause the latency
17:30 est31 so it says "lets give the one with lot things to do their own CPU"
17:30 hmmmm the scheduler does not see that at all
17:30 hmmmm the scheduler can't predict what's happening in a thread
17:31 est31 of course
17:31 est31 its judging based on what happens
17:31 hmmmm some specific implementations of schedulers can penalize certain threads for their past cpu usage
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17:32 est31 hmmmm, I agree to you adding a sleep call, but I want to understand why, thats why I ask
17:34 hmmmm you're attributing human reasoning to a completely opaque algorithm
17:34 hmmmm maybe that is exactly the behavior that happens on your own OS
17:35 est31 heh
17:35 est31 so you want to address a problem that can occur when the thread is always busy?
17:35 hmmmm maybe it's just my specific OS being poorly designed
17:36 hmmmm right, yes
17:36 hmmmm and the problem becomes more pronounced if you have more threads
17:36 hmmmm even if the amount of threads is much less than the number of cores your system has
17:36 hmmmm the problem here is a general choppiness
17:37 est31 so when should the sleep be called?
17:37 est31 on every iteration?
17:37 hmmmm maybe like once every 10 iterations or something
17:38 est31 you realize it wasnt there before?
17:38 est31 before, the sleep (3) was only called if the queue was empty
17:38 est31 https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commi​t/29dda9f356042c403b3b7da1d717d32b45c9b6de​#diff-34f48ad91ac6c202ac60b0348ae90e30L182
17:40 hmmmm ahh okay that's good then
17:44 est31 fine.
17:45 est31 we can add a sleep call if you want though
17:45 est31 e.g. sleep(0) on every 10 iterations.
17:46 hmmmm maybe not
17:46 hmmmm leave it the way it is
17:46 hmmmm wonder how well it works on systems with a low number of ocres
17:46 hmmmm so why did you decide to use semaphores?
17:47 est31 instead of?
17:47 hmmmm JEvent
17:47 hmmmm actually
17:47 est31 JEvent is basically a semaphore too
17:48 est31 just it doesn't count down
17:48 hmmmm JEvent shouldn't be using semaphores
17:48 hmmmm sysv semaphores are too slow
17:48 hmmmm yeah so why do you wait until all writers are done?
17:49 hmmmm don't you realize this could starve the reader?
17:50 est31 how do you mean that
17:52 hmmmm what says that the semaphore will ever reach 0?
17:52 hmmmm while one thread is writing another could start writing and then the first stops writing, and then a third starts writing, and so on
17:53 hmmmm the writes could overlap in such a way where the condition that the value is 0 will never become true, and then the data will never get consumed
17:53 est31 hrmm makes sense
17:54 est31 the original meaning of that loop was to have the semaphore like a binary semaphore
17:54 est31 only 1 and 0
17:54 hmmmm you should use the Event abstraction
17:54 est31 so that people don't make mistakes implementing
17:55 est31 the event abstraction is just a wrapper around the semaphore methods
17:55 hmmmm yes, but it's an abstraction...
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17:55 hmmmm i want to change Event to use futexes
17:55 est31 and in fact its no binary abstraction
17:55 hmmmm this way it'd be faster
17:55 hmmmm right now it's quite slow
17:56 est31 futex is just another mutex
17:56 est31 and mutex isnt ready for this task at all
17:56 hmmmm why not
17:56 est31 what does it have: lock, unlock and wait for lock
17:56 est31 err wait for unlock
17:57 est31 also you have to do it all from the same thread
17:57 hmmmm a binary semaphore is equivalent to a mutex
17:57 est31 so you cant let thread A lock and thread b unlock
17:57 hmmmm who says so
17:57 est31 http://stackoverflow.com/a/86021
17:58 est31 ok that answer isnt helpful
17:58 est31 http://stackoverflow.com/a/86021
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18:00 hmmmm that answer talks about intentions
18:00 hmmmm you're able to use a mutex just fine
18:00 hmmmm i.e. in windows, using critical sections for event synchronization is well defined
18:00 hmmmm the only problem is when using an api where the results of unlocking in a thread that doesn't own it is undefined
18:01 est31 yes
18:01 hmmmm there are lots of futex-based apis where the behavior is defined
18:01 hmmmm i'm not necessarily saying that it needs to use pthread_mutex_lock
18:02 est31 the event implementation has to become less shit, then I can use it
18:03 est31 right now its wait() call is just a wrapper around a semaphore --
18:03 est31 so if you have two raise() calls then one wait call, it doesnt wait until the next raise()
18:04 hmmmm how is that a bad thing
18:04 hmmmm it works exactly like events do on windows
18:05 est31 sorry
18:05 est31 the problem is if you have two raise calls then two wait calls, the second one doesnt wait
18:06 hmmmm how do you know the calls weren't staggered like:   wait raise wait raise
18:06 est31 here the behaviour is different
18:06 est31 but thats not the point
18:07 est31 but either way, feel free to use an event instead
18:08 est31 and to remove the loop that empties the semaphore
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18:08 est31 I gotta reboot
18:11 hmmmm my point is that behavior doesn't really matter because you can't predict the timing, so no behavior should depend on the way it works
18:23 RealBadAngel anything against #2864 ?
18:23 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2864 -- Shaders tweaks by RealBadAngel
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18:57 RealBadAngel anybody?
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19:05 RealBadAngel est31, decide, in or out ;)
19:05 est31 lol
19:05 est31 had to switch computers
19:05 est31 my main computer has fsck failure
19:05 est31 damn ssd
19:05 RealBadAngel please take a look at 2864
19:05 est31 (and heat)
19:06 est31 I cant even merge PRs anymore
19:06 RealBadAngel simple fixes and tweaks
19:06 est31 will have to copy my ssh key
19:06 est31 but at least my mail password is copied over, so can recover everything
19:06 est31 lets hope my hdd survives this
19:06 est31 strategy now: dont boot until it gets cold again
19:07 est31 but I dont know could be mainboard problem too
19:07 RealBadAngel put it into fridge ;)
19:07 est31 this ssd is < 6 months old
19:08 RealBadAngel when it gets hot outside i remove cover from my box
19:08 RealBadAngel it helps a lot
19:08 RealBadAngel im doing that since once i got fried gpu ;)
19:09 est31 heh
19:09 RealBadAngel so, anything against my pr? i would like to merge it now
19:10 est31 im reading
19:11 est31 looks good
19:11 RealBadAngel im not expecting anybody understandin what it actually does, so just the look counts ;)
19:12 RealBadAngel im creating now repo with normals for minetest_game default textures, would you like to try them?
19:13 est31 yes I only saw shader
19:13 est31 then I saw its mostly cleanp
19:13 kilbith normalize(v) instead of normalize (v)
19:13 RealBadAngel not rly, theyre a quite visible changes
19:14 RealBadAngel i mean in-game, you should really try new textures
19:14 est31 so normalmaps are also generated 12 blocks away??
19:14 RealBadAngel effect is imho amazing
19:14 RealBadAngel heightmaps are generated in radius of 12 nodes
19:14 RealBadAngel normalmap is generated everywhere
19:15 RealBadAngel it changes the look of the texture thx to shadows, so it cannot be limited
19:16 RealBadAngel tried to limit that too, but when flying around you can clearly see radius affected by bumpmapping
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19:37 RealBadAngel ok, est31 build now with the patch and use this as texture pack: https://github.com/RealBadAngel/default_normals
19:38 RealBadAngel Calinou, here?
19:38 Calinou yes
19:38 RealBadAngel will you try it?
19:39 Calinou yes
19:41 RealBadAngel ive made maps for just a few textures, i would like to know if general direction is ok so i can continue
19:43 Calinou why is your default_normals a directory?
19:44 Calinou you should commit your texture pack directly
19:44 Calinou not in a subdirectory
19:44 est31 ^
19:45 RealBadAngel Calinou, good point, will fix it
20:04 RealBadAngel so, how do you find them?
20:07 Calinou they are OK
20:07 Calinou isn't sand a bit intense?
20:08 Calinou also why are they larger than 16x16?
20:08 Calinou this makes them hard to maintain
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20:16 RealBadAngel they have to be larger, 16x16 doesnt carry enough data for bumpmapping
20:16 RealBadAngel autogenerating works on 512x512
20:17 RealBadAngel effectively
20:17 RealBadAngel but anyway, what is the problem with them being larger?
20:18 RealBadAngel about sand, would you like to make shadows softer?
20:19 Calinou the shadows need to be less intense
20:19 RealBadAngel ok, will try
20:21 RealBadAngel btw, why meselamp have drawtype glasslike??
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20:24 Calinou some texture packs might make it transparent?
20:25 RealBadAngel it is not transparent, neither should be
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20:40 RealBadAngel Calinou, please try sand now
20:40 RealBadAngel i kinda like it softer
20:43 Calinou good now
20:44 RealBadAngel huge areas of sand are lookin cool
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22:57 est31 pushing in 5 minutes https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/2863
22:58 hmmmm who is the other +1?
22:58 kilbith small patch
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23:16 hmmmm really?
23:17 hmmmm it's honestly as if everybody but me is trying to skirt around the rules
23:17 kilbith est31 is compliant with the rules here
23:17 hmmmm if so many are doing this, i'm getting the feeling none like the rules
23:17 hmmmm kilbith, he's compliant with the rules because it benefits you
23:17 kilbith no, because it's the rules
23:18 hmmmm anywhere there's a bit of a gray area you (plural) take the benefit of the doubt to push
23:18 hmmmm push-trigger happy
23:18 kilbith also don't put malice on my intentions please
23:18 hmmmm kilbith, i'm not saying you have malicious intentions
23:18 hmmmm what i am saying is that you're all too push happy
23:18 hmmmm do you not like the rules as they're made?
23:18 est31 joined #minetest-dev
23:18 hmmmm because we can change them
23:19 hmmmm i want people to be honest about their feelings here
23:19 kilbith small correction : it don't benefits me, but the engine
23:19 hmmmm ..
23:19 kilbith i don't care at all of the fame
23:19 hmmmm look
23:19 kilbith and it's Lua trivial fix so
23:19 hmmmm it's getting more and more obvious that the rest of you do not share the same values and philosophies as i do about development
23:20 hmmmm maybe this could be a reason why most good devs tend to stop contributing
23:21 kilbith i follow silently the devel for 2 years now, never saw you or very rarely trying to grab another +1
23:21 kilbith even when those commits contained nasty bugs
23:21 RealBadAngel hmmmm, for small fixes we dont need strict 2 votes rules
23:21 RealBadAngel and you know that
23:22 hmmmm the word "small" is totally subjective
23:22 hmmmm and you know that
23:22 hmmmm you're touting it around as if it were fact
23:22 hmmmm kilbith, like what?
23:22 kilbith noise params for example
23:22 hmmmm noise params were never flawed
23:22 kilbith (for the bugs)
23:23 kilbith they were reset at each world's joining
23:23 kilbith but i said nothing since you fixes quickly your bugs
23:23 hmmmm and they are never trivial to begin with
23:23 hmmmm when i look for a review, i want an actual review too
23:24 hmmmm not some cursory, superficial scan
23:24 hmmmm the majority of you will say "looks good to me" when something contains blatant memory leaks
23:25 hmmmm maybe i'd be more happy about all this if people had committments to fixing their bugs
23:25 est31 the PR I merged was actually a bugfix after kilbiths commit
23:26 est31 https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commi​t/85f3d575ec3d99ef2ce680d4a2546e4d31327d83
23:26 est31 and that hang around for months
23:26 est31 literally
23:26 kilbith fz72's shit and never came back for fixing it
23:27 est31 #2586
23:27 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2586 -- Fix some bugs in mainmenu tab_singleplayer and tab_server by fz72
23:27 hmmmm how about some testing before commits
23:27 hmmmm why don't people ever do that?
23:29 est31 isnt it the same way in professional world too? the devs break the tree (and test for the big issues), and the software testers run the newest tree and report back regressions
23:29 RealBadAngel hmmmm, how many times asked you to test something? "nah, screenshot is enough"
23:30 hmmmm no, the person committing it should be the one to test
23:30 hmmmm you just want me to look at your neato graphical effects
23:31 RealBadAngel not always, sometimes i do need to test pr on various platforms
23:31 hmmmm est31:  QA is supposed to be the last stop
23:32 hmmmm like for example, how did the rendering regression happen?
23:32 hmmmm how did nobody notice that
23:32 hmmmm it blows my mind
23:32 est31 which "rendering regression"
23:32 hmmmm the one that's afflicting master right now
23:32 est31 calm down and talk about the issue
23:32 hmmmm i have a freaking GTX660 and I get 15 FPS staring into a wall
23:33 hmmmm i'm almost embarassed to have my name associated with minetest to be frank
23:34 hmmmm people see that i contribute to it, download it and try it out, and it's a buggy, laggy piece of crap
23:34 est31 building right now and trying to download
23:34 hmmmm and how does that reflect on me
23:34 RealBadAngel i have also an nvidia and i do get 60fps at distance 245, all special effects enabled, so hmmm i suggest checkin your drivers
23:35 hmmmm in fact it's been like this all the time
23:35 hmmmm every time I take a break from minetest for a couple months then come back, there are major bugs or regressions that were just left go
23:35 hmmmm wtf?
23:36 RealBadAngel when i remove cap and enable vbo i could get way more
23:36 RealBadAngel what drivers do you actually use?
23:37 est31 I get 40-60 FPS
23:38 est31 hmmmm, you commited commits which broke builds on non freebsd too.
23:38 hmmmm and they get fixed 5 minutes after
23:38 est31 perhaps the issue is as you said a scheduling problem
23:38 RealBadAngel hmmmm, so? what drivers?
23:38 hmmmm RealBadAngel, it's obviously not a driver problem.
23:39 hmmmm i am using the same exact drivers with the same exact settings as before the regression
23:39 hmmmm in any case, i'm gonna have to fix this one too
23:39 RealBadAngel open source or propertiary??
23:39 est31 so, bisect it
23:39 est31 RealBadAngel, not everything is a driver problem
23:39 RealBadAngel indeed, but that also can be a reason
23:40 RealBadAngel on my box open propertiary are like 4 times faster
23:45 RealBadAngel but seriously, if we want to find a reson for your regression, you really should bisect it.
23:45 RealBadAngel idk why youre experiencing slowdowns while others enjoy faster and smoother game
23:47 hmmmm it seems as though toggling between full viewing range has no effect
23:47 hmmmm are blocks still being drawn outside of the view radius?
23:48 RealBadAngel rather not, theres even a glitch i noticed lately
23:48 est31 I've seen bugs about occlusion culling so it seems to be enabled
23:48 est31 and implemented
23:48 RealBadAngel when flying and rotating, some blocks in the corners dissapear
23:48 RealBadAngel very rare to spot but means above
23:55 hmmmm yup there's definitely a regression
23:55 hmmmm FPS dropped in the same scene from 25 to 13
23:55 est31 ok
23:56 est31 I usually do a bisect in these cases
23:56 hmmmm began bisecting at 502e40a649137461947c36ea52205f058f81296f - which is good
23:57 hmmmm really, this happens to nobody else?
23:58 RealBadAngel whats that commit?

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